I was thinking of getting 2 of those to add with my 2 SVS PC4000$ but SVS said i should not mix different subs together. Like you said in your video that you can turn then down and have tons of head room so do you think 2 of those D8000 pro and my 2 SVS PC4000s will be too much for my 2 bedroom apartment Lol ?????????????....no one lives above me next to me just below me and im in a solid concrete building. And do you think it's ok to mix and match different subs for home theater. Thanks i love the channel and i never miss any of your videos so keep bringing more great content that we all enjoy 🍿🎬 💪
@@rickguenther1013 Thanks brother, I appreciate you watching. Generally speaker, SVS is right. It's always easier to, and recommended to use identical subwoofers. You can run into issues when mixing subwoofers that are tuned differently. It's not to say it can't be done, but typically you will need to put in some effort to get them to play well together. I would recommend just getting 2 D8000 Pro, and possibly selling the PC4000's. You will get significantly more output from the 2 D8000's than you are getting from the PC4000's. You could try and mix them together to see if you like it, but there should be no need to keep both 😉. Hopefully the neighbors that live below you are cool people, because they might feel some bass lol.
@@SpecOfTech thanks for the fast reply ya i really don't want to try to mix up different subwoofer brands but i also don't want to get rid of my PC4000s so i guess i will just buy 2 or 3 more PC4000s and that should be some crazy output 😂 Lol. I just love my Tonewinner at300 that you got me interested in so i was thinking of saving some money and getting some Tonewinner subs that are alot cheaper in price then anything SVS. And ya my neighbors that live below me are cool as long as i don't bump tunes or movies past 10pm Lol. My 2 PC4000$ sound soooooooooooo good and they don't take up any space so i can fit a few more of them in my apartment until i buy a house in the next 6-10 years where i can enjoy it as loud as possible. 🍿🎬
Hi Bear I have to a simple bar mind numbing question to ask...ok here goes, I have heard and read that to hook up a sub put the cross over on full and let your receiver control the cross over, in other words crank the cross over on the sub to full and let your AVR on set up control the C/O (set the c/o on the AVR to say 80htz) or set the c/o on the sub to 80 htz. Now that I have confused you, imagine my confusion! Sorry a basic question but I need clarification or HELP 😂 oh I should mention that I am running it all connected to LFE (Denon AVR, Klipsh sub) Hoping a fellow Canadian could help😊
Btw. I always like your sound clips and in room measurements!! It’s very useful when especially when you compared different subs! 🎉 ps. That rattle is intense!! Have you tried everything to dampen that down somehow? Just curious 🎉
I'm glad you find the helpful. If I silence the rattling, how will I know if the sub passes the rattle test😜 . Honestly, the rattling doesn't bug me, because it's mostly only audible when I do crazy loud demos. During normal movie watching it's not audible in 99% of scenes. So, to answer your question, no I haven't tried to silence it lol.
Hey buddy great review and love the measurement graphs. Question. I have the D8000 and soon want to buy one more sub. I'm thinking the D9000 or D8000 pro. Would it suit the D8000 or blend well with it or will it not match and should I stick to another D8000?
Thanks buddy. It is always best to pair 2 identical subwoofers. I suggest you go with a second D8000. If for some reason you are unable to do that I would recommend going with the D8000 Pro, at least the it has the same drivers as the D8000. They aren't tuned exactly the same, so you may run into some issues at port tunings. With room calibration it should help this. But, who knows, sometimes subs seems to work well together even without too much intervention. Hard to say until you place them and measure. I hope that helps.
@@SpecOfTech thanks for the reply! I can go with a second D8000. The reason I was thinking to go with the pro or 9000 was for the extra output power. Would I notice extra power with one D8000 and one pro over two D8000's?
@@HorsepowerAddiction It may be somewhat noticeable at some frequencies. I believe the D8000 Pro has a larger cabinet, so that will help with output also. I'm not sure how noticeable it will be. You could always try to pair them and see how it goes.
Lower the Low pass filter..That will help with frequencies that excite resonances and rattles...Subs combined with full range speakers shouldnt be crossed any higher than 50 HZ LR24 DB.
Thanks for the suggestion. When I have full range speakers, I only use them as such for 2 channel music. For home theater, I like the subwoofer to handle some of the bass above 50hz as well. I find even though the speakers are full range, a subwoofer still sounds fuller IMO. Matter of fact, some subwoofer designers even recommend trying a 90-110 hz crossover. I know my room sounds bad when things are cranked to 11 lol, but during normal movie watching levels, it doesn't sound like that.
Im upgrading my Nakamichi Dragon subwoofer. I ordered 2 Nakamichi 12 inch subwoofers for $2400 and 2 Elac Rs 700 for $3000. The one that sounds better im keeping. I'm new at subwoofers because the initial subs that came with the dragon didn't reach advertised Hz of 20hz and was bottoming out at 35 Hz. I didn't know how important that was until many people began to complain about them. It couldn't play edge of tomorrow without bottoming in the original Nakamichi 8 inch subwoofers What the Elac Rs 700 has over the Nakamichi 12 inch is fantastic room correction.
Why would you go with either of those. Neither of those choices are good. You'd be better with RSL Speedwoofers. Or if you have the space, some HSU or Rhytmik.
I would recommend looking at either something like these Tonewinner subs, or like Robert mentioned, look at HSU or Rythmik as well. They will all out perform the Nakamichi and Elac subs. But let me know which one of those you prefer after you get them.
I second that… I’ve done a ton of research and the RSL Speedwoofer 12S will blow those away at only $799 each! Also the RSL has hi level inputs that you’ll need to do the nakamichi “sub mod”. Unless you do a hi-lo converter, in which case you could get 2-tonewinner 12”s for $1600 and have good dsp, or even starke sealed or ported 15”s ($549/$999)!! 🎉 If I had that amount to spend, I’d do the hi-lo converter and get 2- D6000 15”s for like $1300 each because for that price point, it has a good dsp and awesome output plus way more reliable than monolith. Otherwise it’s gotta be 2 RSL 12’s or starke 15P! 🎉
@@MattyDaddy14 I like all the subs mentioned here. Also possibly Monoprice BUT I don't trust their customer service. Only downside to any of the subs mentioned here is they don't have the best looking finishes but that's to be expected when you have the best bang for your buck.
@@thecman26 Insulation and cool ass neighbors ;). My neighbors are awesome. Even though they can hear my subs sometimes they are good about it. I also don't push them when it's late at night haha. Need to be respectful as well.
I'm taking donations to be able to afford them 😉. Just kidding, I might be able to get them in for review and then send them back. I waiting on Arendal...so stay tuned.
Why would you use so many small ports.. it causes you to need to lengthen them to maintain the same tuned freq. I suggest 1 slot port. And in large room a TL box is better
Why any manufacturer uses ports on any home speaker is beyond me. So many negatives for what... a couple % more bass output that isn't even good bass output. Keep it sealed it's tighter, more accurate, less muddy, more damping, no port noise / chuffing, tonally superior.. Its just better in every single way with the same driver and amp... Only real downside is needing a bigger box for the same tuning. Unless you're building a theater in a 500 spft studio you should be fine.
I appreciate the comment, but not everything you stated is accurate. What is tighter to you? How can a subwoofer sound tighter? There are many common misconceptions with ported and sealed subs, that is one of them. The only time a ported subwoofer sounds "muddy", is if it is poorly placed and/or poorly eq'd. This also applies to a sealed subwoofer, they are not immune. Another one is that a sealed subwoofer is "cleaner". When in reality a sealed subwoofer is less efficient, and technically, adds distortion. The driver is fighting against the air pressure in the box, it works harder, it adds distortion. I do agree with your statement on the port noise and chuffing. That is a specific problem to ported subwoofers, but, sealed are not without their drawbacks either. Like their lack of efficiency, they can't produce the same output as a ported if it's apples to apples. I think you can expect more than a couple % more output with a ported subwoofer. A ported subwoofer can have significantly more output than its sealed counterpart, depending on port tuning of course. That doesn't apply to all frequencies, usually a sealed subwoofer will catch up to its ported counterpart in the higher frequencies, but again this depend on port tuning. I have had conversations with multiple subwoofer designers, and generally speaking, they have said "if you have the room for them, ported subwoofers are superior". I'm paraphrasing. Cheers!
@@SpecOfTech Woofer tightness isn't an arbitrary term, you and I and everyone else knows this. Tightness or accuracy is used to define how much control the driver has over its cone (execution and correction). Muddiness and inaccuracy mean the driver has less control over its cone and takes longer to execute and correct (sloppy / inaccurate movement) resulting in sounds and tones bleeding into each other, creating sound when it's not supposed to and less able to produce the sound it is supposed to on time. All things equal, smaller drivers are more accurate because they have a smaller, lighter cone with the same motor force resulting in faster execution and correction of the cone. This is why smaller subs are known for being tighter. All things equal, bigger drivers take longer to execute and longer to correct, this is why bigger will result in less accuracy or tightness. Sometimes so much so that the bass is completely out of phase from the rest of the sound coming from the highs and mids. All thing's equal, sealed subs are more accurate because the enclosure creates vacuum when the cone is pushing out and pressure when the cone is pulling in, always trying to achieve equilibrium. Resulting in faster correction (more important than execution) All thing's equal, ported subs are less accurate because they are closer to free air on both sides. This means the cone has less vacuum when pushing out and less pressure when the cone is pulling in resulting in it taking longer to correct which creates inaccuracies and muddiness. But has the added benefit of executing faster (less important than correction). Doesn't mean they'll be muddy or inaccurate garbage. It means they are MORE muddy and inaccurate. Key words there. Take the same driver with the same amp with proper box design under a slow motion camera and the sealed box will correct much faster, this is why sealed subs are more accurate under normal use. This is why servo subs exist, because ports create slop and the servo is to correct the cone much faster than it could on its own in a ported box. "if you have the room for them, ported subwoofers are superior" - That doesn't mean anything. Superior to whoever told you that can mean higher output at only 30hz, which is right, you can do that with ports. Ports do not increase quality. And this doesn't make sense because sealed subs are bigger at the same tuning, you go ported to save space. The only reason manufacturers of high end home subs make ported subs, is to reduce size (by a significant amount). Because a sealed sub tuned the same as a flat to 16hz ported sub is absolutely massive, it's like 2-4 times the size.
@@brucecarter6205 Nothing says "you're wrong and I'm right" like saying "nuh uhhh". 👍 I'll repeat this comment to you. Woofer tightness isn't an arbitrary term, you and I and everyone else knows this. Tightness or accuracy is used to define how much control the driver has over its cone (execution and correction). Muddiness and inaccuracy mean the driver has less control over its cone and takes longer to execute and correct (sloppy / inaccurate movement) resulting in sounds and tones bleeding into each other, creating sound when it's not supposed to and less able to produce the sound it is supposed to on time. All things equal, smaller drivers are more accurate because they have a smaller, lighter cone with the same motor force resulting in faster execution and correction of the cone. This is why smaller subs are known for being tighter. All things equal, bigger drivers take longer to execute and longer to correct, this is why bigger will result in less accuracy or tightness. Sometimes so much so that the bass is completely out of phase from the rest of the sound coming from the highs and mids. All thing's equal, sealed subs are more accurate because the enclosure creates vacuum when the cone is pushing out and pressure when the cone is pulling in, always trying to achieve equilibrium. Resulting in faster correction (more important than execution) All thing's equal, ported subs are less accurate because they are closer to free air on both sides. This means the cone has less vacuum when pushing out and less pressure when the cone is pulling in resulting in it taking longer to correct which creates inaccuracies and muddiness. But has the added benefit of executing faster (less important than correction). Doesn't mean they'll be muddy or inaccurate garbage. It means they are MORE muddy and inaccurate. Key words there. Take the same driver with the same amp with proper box design under a slow motion camera and the sealed box will correct much faster, this is why sealed subs are more accurate under normal use. This is why servo subs exist, because ports create slop and the servo is to correct the cone much faster than it could on its own in a ported box. "if you have the room for them, ported subwoofers are superior" - That doesn't mean anything. Superior to whoever told you that can mean higher output at only 30hz, which is right, you can do that with ports. Ports do not increase quality. And this doesn't make sense because sealed subs are bigger at the same tuning, you go ported to save space. The only reason manufacturers of high end home subs make ported subs, is to reduce size (by a significant amount). Because a sealed sub tuned the same as a flat to 16hz ported sub is absolutely massive, it's like 2-4 times the size.
Hey Barrett, great review !!! I have a couple of questions. When these are cranked up and nothing is happening in the low end, do the amps make much noise ? And....have you ever tried pro subs like EV or QSC or JBL etc. Just curious. Thanks for this video 👍👍🤘🤘🤘🤘🤙
When I have my head right next to the subwoofer, I did hear a little noise from the driver. It's hard to say if it's the subwoofer or my power. I have had issues with ground loop hums in the past. So, I passed it off as ground loop hum that the Tonewinner was doing a good job of minimizing. That being said, it could be the amp, but like I said, I had ground loop hums in the past...so who knows. Either way it isn't audible at the MLP, so I wasn't concerned.
Wow! Are your Legacy towers on for that first demo or is it just the pressure in the room moving the drivers? That gets me thinking about what would be a good way to tell the story about how violent the bass is in the room. I’m sure with drivers that big and that much RMS/ports/excursion that it’s huge. Your hair is probably standing on end and your vision might even be blurring a bit. But how to tell that to those of us that aren’t there? Maybe have the ports blowing one of your kids across the room? 😀 Or collect some debris and set it up to shake down in front of your camera like the ceiling is falling apart? 😂
@@SpecOfTechHaha, nice. No actual experience doing any of this, but just across town if you ever wanna bandy silly ideas over cheeseburgers 🍔. Best I recall from previous videos is that your kids are older than ours. Our smallest is 20lbs and only so so sturdy on his feet…I bet we could blow him over with the Edge of Tomorrow scene! 😂
@@jesseaylward7469 Lol that poor little guy wouldn't stand a chance. We'd at least put pillows behind him to break his fall. Are you going to the Calgary Audio Show at The Audio Room on Oct 26? I do plan on going, maybe I'll see you there?
@@SpecOfTechHadn’t heard of it but that sounds awesome. Just registered. When (roughly) in that 11-4 timespan do you think you’d be there? I’ll head over for a bit and will come say hello if I see you
@@jesseaylward7469 I haven't decided on a specific time yet. I am still out of town working. I'm 90% sure I'm going, and would probably get there somewhere around 1 or 2pm. Definitely come say hi if you see me filming or walking around. Would be awesome to meet you.
I'd take 2 D9000 to help with low end and then 2 D8000 Pro to add a little punch lol. Honestly, simply for a size stand point I would take the D8000 Pro. It's a little bit more narrow and fits my front stage a little better than the D9000. Honestly, you can't lose with either of them, if you want lots of output.
Depends on what you consider to be better. The JTR has more output below 14hz, but the D8000 Pro and D9000 as single subwoofers (not measured together) have more above that, if my memory serves me correct. If you want a lot of low end output, JTR is a fantastic choice and is really hard to beat. But it doesn't beat the D8000 Pro and D9000 when they are measured together. Except for maybe below 10hz. Above that the D8000 Pro and D9000 have significantly more output.
@@SpecOfTech Very true. I rushed into (2) 2400's and find them lacking in chest bump and ridiculous in ULF. I have the latter attenuated @ my wife's insistence.😜 According to data-base their CEA2010 max burst are below avg compared to their S2 starting @ 50hz up
It’s all about perspective. Some of us spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on this hobby. It’s amazing to me how much value is packed in given the capabilities of these units vs other high output subwoofer competitors.
That's just typically due to the camera frame rate. They can also sometimes look like the deformed due to the same thing. The camera frame rate isn't anywhere near fast enough so it can have weird results with fast moving objects.
@@SpecOfTech I have watched hundreds of videos of multiple sub set ups, even ones with 12 18's next to each other in a van. I have never seen subs appear this way during excursion to this extent. Must be a certain frame rate combined with a certain frequency to do this.
@@ejohnson3837 I need a lot of things lol. I just do what I can with what I have. I do this for the love of the hobby and to help the community. I don't make enough to reno my house or buy a new one...cheers.
Thanks for watching!
10% off Tonewinner D8000 Pro coupon codes below!
USA buyers - specoftechusa
Canadian buyers - specoftech
I was thinking of getting 2 of those to add with my 2 SVS PC4000$ but SVS said i should not mix different subs together. Like you said in your video that you can turn then down and have tons of head room so do you think 2 of those D8000 pro and my 2 SVS PC4000s will be too much for my 2 bedroom apartment Lol ?????????????....no one lives above me next to me just below me and im in a solid concrete building. And do you think it's ok to mix and match different subs for home theater. Thanks i love the channel and i never miss any of your videos so keep bringing more great content that we all enjoy 🍿🎬 💪
@@rickguenther1013 Thanks brother, I appreciate you watching.
Generally speaker, SVS is right. It's always easier to, and recommended to use identical subwoofers. You can run into issues when mixing subwoofers that are tuned differently. It's not to say it can't be done, but typically you will need to put in some effort to get them to play well together.
I would recommend just getting 2 D8000 Pro, and possibly selling the PC4000's. You will get significantly more output from the 2 D8000's than you are getting from the PC4000's. You could try and mix them together to see if you like it, but there should be no need to keep both 😉. Hopefully the neighbors that live below you are cool people, because they might feel some bass lol.
@@SpecOfTech thanks for the fast reply ya i really don't want to try to mix up different subwoofer brands but i also don't want to get rid of my PC4000s so i guess i will just buy 2 or 3 more PC4000s and that should be some crazy output 😂 Lol. I just love my Tonewinner at300 that you got me interested in so i was thinking of saving some money and getting some Tonewinner subs that are alot cheaper in price then anything SVS. And ya my neighbors that live below me are cool as long as i don't bump tunes or movies past 10pm Lol. My 2 PC4000$ sound soooooooooooo good and they don't take up any space so i can fit a few more of them in my apartment until i buy a house in the next 6-10 years where i can enjoy it as loud as possible. 🍿🎬
Hi Bear I have to a simple bar mind numbing question to ask...ok here goes, I have heard and read that to hook up a sub put the cross over on full and let your receiver control the cross over, in other words crank the cross over on the sub to full and let your AVR on set up control the C/O (set the c/o on the AVR to say 80htz) or set the c/o on the sub to 80 htz. Now that I have confused you, imagine my confusion! Sorry a basic question but I need clarification or HELP 😂 oh I should mention that I am running it all connected to LFE (Denon AVR, Klipsh sub) Hoping a fellow Canadian could help😊
Cant wait for you to teach your neighbors more lessons with the SVS 17inch Ultra Revolution🤣
Haha, first I need to finish the review on the SVS Evolution Pinnacles. Maybe after that they'll send me a PB17.
@@SpecOfTech looking forward to that 😁
Definitely looking forward to your thoughts on pb17 ultras
Btw. I always like your sound clips and in room measurements!! It’s very useful when especially when you compared different subs! 🎉 ps. That rattle is intense!! Have you tried everything to dampen that down somehow? Just curious 🎉
I'm glad you find the helpful. If I silence the rattling, how will I know if the sub passes the rattle test😜 . Honestly, the rattling doesn't bug me, because it's mostly only audible when I do crazy loud demos. During normal movie watching it's not audible in 99% of scenes. So, to answer your question, no I haven't tried to silence it lol.
Hey buddy great review and love the measurement graphs. Question. I have the D8000 and soon want to buy one more sub. I'm thinking the D9000 or D8000 pro. Would it suit the D8000 or blend well with it or will it not match and should I stick to another D8000?
Thanks buddy. It is always best to pair 2 identical subwoofers. I suggest you go with a second D8000. If for some reason you are unable to do that I would recommend going with the D8000 Pro, at least the it has the same drivers as the D8000. They aren't tuned exactly the same, so you may run into some issues at port tunings. With room calibration it should help this. But, who knows, sometimes subs seems to work well together even without too much intervention. Hard to say until you place them and measure. I hope that helps.
@@SpecOfTech thanks for the reply! I can go with a second D8000. The reason I was thinking to go with the pro or 9000 was for the extra output power. Would I notice extra power with one D8000 and one pro over two D8000's?
@@HorsepowerAddiction It may be somewhat noticeable at some frequencies. I believe the D8000 Pro has a larger cabinet, so that will help with output also. I'm not sure how noticeable it will be. You could always try to pair them and see how it goes.
Great review Barrett! That center channel speaker you have looks massive in this video!
Thank you! Haha, that's because it is massive.
No kong18x or kong18 in your testing 😢
I've never been sent any for review 😉.
@@SpecOfTech lol,
Your on #freetheKong
Look forward to this!
This
Sweet!! 🎉 been waiting for this video! 🎉 and especially for that coupon code!! 🎉 I really want the D9000!
Haha, that thing is a beast too. Next week the coupon code will be active for the D9000.
Lower the Low pass filter..That will help with frequencies that excite resonances and rattles...Subs combined with full range speakers shouldnt be crossed any higher than 50 HZ LR24 DB.
Thanks for the suggestion. When I have full range speakers, I only use them as such for 2 channel music. For home theater, I like the subwoofer to handle some of the bass above 50hz as well. I find even though the speakers are full range, a subwoofer still sounds fuller IMO. Matter of fact, some subwoofer designers even recommend trying a 90-110 hz crossover.
I know my room sounds bad when things are cranked to 11 lol, but during normal movie watching levels, it doesn't sound like that.
Im upgrading my Nakamichi Dragon subwoofer. I ordered 2 Nakamichi 12 inch subwoofers for $2400 and 2 Elac Rs 700 for $3000. The one that sounds better im keeping. I'm new at subwoofers because the initial subs that came with the dragon didn't reach advertised Hz of 20hz and was bottoming out at 35 Hz. I didn't know how important that was until many people began to complain about them. It couldn't play edge of tomorrow without bottoming in the original Nakamichi 8 inch subwoofers
What the Elac Rs 700 has over the Nakamichi 12 inch is fantastic room correction.
Why would you go with either of those. Neither of those choices are good. You'd be better with RSL Speedwoofers. Or if you have the space, some HSU or Rhytmik.
I would recommend looking at either something like these Tonewinner subs, or like Robert mentioned, look at HSU or Rythmik as well. They will all out perform the Nakamichi and Elac subs. But let me know which one of those you prefer after you get them.
I second that… I’ve done a ton of research and the RSL Speedwoofer 12S will blow those away at only $799 each! Also the RSL has hi level inputs that you’ll need to do the nakamichi “sub mod”. Unless you do a hi-lo converter, in which case you could get 2-tonewinner 12”s for $1600 and have good dsp, or even starke sealed or ported 15”s ($549/$999)!! 🎉
If I had that amount to spend, I’d do the hi-lo converter and get 2- D6000 15”s for like $1300 each because for that price point, it has a good dsp and awesome output plus way more reliable than monolith. Otherwise it’s gotta be 2 RSL 12’s or starke 15P! 🎉
@@MattyDaddy14 I like all the subs mentioned here. Also possibly Monoprice BUT I don't trust their customer service.
Only downside to any of the subs mentioned here is they don't have the best looking finishes but that's to be expected when you have the best bang for your buck.
houses getting smaller--- blocks of land smaller--- neighbours closer together----and bigger subwoofers---lol, what could go wrong
lol seems like a recipe for good times to me.
I pound my 15s and the neighbors have never said a word. Keyword is insulation.
@@thecman26 Insulation and cool ass neighbors ;). My neighbors are awesome. Even though they can hear my subs sometimes they are good about it. I also don't push them when it's late at night haha. Need to be respectful as well.
@@SpecOfTech exactly
I want you to buy the NEW Arendal 1528 big boy towers and tell us what you think!
I'm taking donations to be able to afford them 😉. Just kidding, I might be able to get them in for review and then send them back. I waiting on Arendal...so stay tuned.
@@SpecOfTech you and me both buddy. A man can dream…am I right?! Can’t wait to see what you think compared to the legacy audio system
I might be the minority but i like the looks of that Tonewinner.
It’s mean looking that’s for sure!
The measurements are absolutely atrocious. Obviously he will run multiple subs but those nulls are brutal
I too love the look.. 😊 Looks threating.. lol.. In a good way..
Why would you use so many small ports.. it causes you to need to lengthen them to maintain the same tuned freq. I suggest 1 slot port. And in large room a TL box is better
What subs would be those that hit the single digits ?
There are several brands out there, JTR being one of them.
Pardon my ignorance but what are those towers next to the sub?
That's legacy speakers
Those are Legacy Aeris towers. Since this video, I have since sold them.
Love graphs!
Use the current PB17 from SVS.
I hope to get one of these in for review.
Why any manufacturer uses ports on any home speaker is beyond me. So many negatives for what... a couple % more bass output that isn't even good bass output. Keep it sealed it's tighter, more accurate, less muddy, more damping, no port noise / chuffing, tonally superior.. Its just better in every single way with the same driver and amp... Only real downside is needing a bigger box for the same tuning. Unless you're building a theater in a 500 spft studio you should be fine.
I appreciate the comment, but not everything you stated is accurate. What is tighter to you? How can a subwoofer sound tighter? There are many common misconceptions with ported and sealed subs, that is one of them.
The only time a ported subwoofer sounds "muddy", is if it is poorly placed and/or poorly eq'd. This also applies to a sealed subwoofer, they are not immune.
Another one is that a sealed subwoofer is "cleaner". When in reality a sealed subwoofer is less efficient, and technically, adds distortion. The driver is fighting against the air pressure in the box, it works harder, it adds distortion.
I do agree with your statement on the port noise and chuffing. That is a specific problem to ported subwoofers, but, sealed are not without their drawbacks either. Like their lack of efficiency, they can't produce the same output as a ported if it's apples to apples.
I think you can expect more than a couple % more output with a ported subwoofer. A ported subwoofer can have significantly more output than its sealed counterpart, depending on port tuning of course. That doesn't apply to all frequencies, usually a sealed subwoofer will catch up to its ported counterpart in the higher frequencies, but again this depend on port tuning.
I have had conversations with multiple subwoofer designers, and generally speaking, they have said "if you have the room for them, ported subwoofers are superior". I'm paraphrasing.
Cheers!
Complete nonsense and clearly way beyond your level of knowledge.🤦♂️
@@SpecOfTech Woofer tightness isn't an arbitrary term, you and I and everyone else knows this. Tightness or accuracy is used to define how much control the driver has over its cone (execution and correction). Muddiness and inaccuracy mean the driver has less control over its cone and takes longer to execute and correct (sloppy / inaccurate movement) resulting in sounds and tones bleeding into each other, creating sound when it's not supposed to and less able to produce the sound it is supposed to on time.
All things equal, smaller drivers are more accurate because they have a smaller, lighter cone with the same motor force resulting in faster execution and correction of the cone. This is why smaller subs are known for being tighter.
All things equal, bigger drivers take longer to execute and longer to correct, this is why bigger will result in less accuracy or tightness. Sometimes so much so that the bass is completely out of phase from the rest of the sound coming from the highs and mids.
All thing's equal, sealed subs are more accurate because the enclosure creates vacuum when the cone is pushing out and pressure when the cone is pulling in, always trying to achieve equilibrium. Resulting in faster correction (more important than execution)
All thing's equal, ported subs are less accurate because they are closer to free air on both sides. This means the cone has less vacuum when pushing out and less pressure when the cone is pulling in resulting in it taking longer to correct which creates inaccuracies and muddiness. But has the added benefit of executing faster (less important than correction).
Doesn't mean they'll be muddy or inaccurate garbage. It means they are MORE muddy and inaccurate. Key words there.
Take the same driver with the same amp with proper box design under a slow motion camera and the sealed box will correct much faster, this is why sealed subs are more accurate under normal use.
This is why servo subs exist, because ports create slop and the servo is to correct the cone much faster than it could on its own in a ported box.
"if you have the room for them, ported subwoofers are superior" - That doesn't mean anything. Superior to whoever told you that can mean higher output at only 30hz, which is right, you can do that with ports. Ports do not increase quality. And this doesn't make sense because sealed subs are bigger at the same tuning, you go ported to save space.
The only reason manufacturers of high end home subs make ported subs, is to reduce size (by a significant amount). Because a sealed sub tuned the same as a flat to 16hz ported sub is absolutely massive, it's like 2-4 times the size.
@@brucecarter6205 Nothing says "you're wrong and I'm right" like saying "nuh uhhh". 👍
I'll repeat this comment to you.
Woofer tightness isn't an arbitrary term, you and I and everyone else knows this. Tightness or accuracy is used to define how much control the driver has over its cone (execution and correction). Muddiness and inaccuracy mean the driver has less control over its cone and takes longer to execute and correct (sloppy / inaccurate movement) resulting in sounds and tones bleeding into each other, creating sound when it's not supposed to and less able to produce the sound it is supposed to on time.
All things equal, smaller drivers are more accurate because they have a smaller, lighter cone with the same motor force resulting in faster execution and correction of the cone. This is why smaller subs are known for being tighter.
All things equal, bigger drivers take longer to execute and longer to correct, this is why bigger will result in less accuracy or tightness. Sometimes so much so that the bass is completely out of phase from the rest of the sound coming from the highs and mids.
All thing's equal, sealed subs are more accurate because the enclosure creates vacuum when the cone is pushing out and pressure when the cone is pulling in, always trying to achieve equilibrium. Resulting in faster correction (more important than execution)
All thing's equal, ported subs are less accurate because they are closer to free air on both sides. This means the cone has less vacuum when pushing out and less pressure when the cone is pulling in resulting in it taking longer to correct which creates inaccuracies and muddiness. But has the added benefit of executing faster (less important than correction).
Doesn't mean they'll be muddy or inaccurate garbage. It means they are MORE muddy and inaccurate. Key words there.
Take the same driver with the same amp with proper box design under a slow motion camera and the sealed box will correct much faster, this is why sealed subs are more accurate under normal use.
This is why servo subs exist, because ports create slop and the servo is to correct the cone much faster than it could on its own in a ported box.
"if you have the room for them, ported subwoofers are superior" - That doesn't mean anything. Superior to whoever told you that can mean higher output at only 30hz, which is right, you can do that with ports. Ports do not increase quality. And this doesn't make sense because sealed subs are bigger at the same tuning, you go ported to save space.
The only reason manufacturers of high end home subs make ported subs, is to reduce size (by a significant amount). Because a sealed sub tuned the same as a flat to 16hz ported sub is absolutely massive, it's like 2-4 times the size.
@@thehavok4258so much misinformation. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
Hey Barrett, great review !!! I have a couple of questions. When these are cranked up and nothing is happening in the low end, do the amps make much noise ? And....have you ever tried pro subs like EV or QSC or JBL etc. Just curious. Thanks for this video 👍👍🤘🤘🤘🤘🤙
When I have my head right next to the subwoofer, I did hear a little noise from the driver. It's hard to say if it's the subwoofer or my power. I have had issues with ground loop hums in the past. So, I passed it off as ground loop hum that the Tonewinner was doing a good job of minimizing. That being said, it could be the amp, but like I said, I had ground loop hums in the past...so who knows. Either way it isn't audible at the MLP, so I wasn't concerned.
Wow! Are your Legacy towers on for that first demo or is it just the pressure in the room moving the drivers?
That gets me thinking about what would be a good way to tell the story about how violent the bass is in the room. I’m sure with drivers that big and that much RMS/ports/excursion that it’s huge. Your hair is probably standing on end and your vision might even be blurring a bit. But how to tell that to those of us that aren’t there? Maybe have the ports blowing one of your kids across the room? 😀 Or collect some debris and set it up to shake down in front of your camera like the ceiling is falling apart? 😂
Lol, the Legacy's were on, but crossed over to the subwoofers at 100hz I believe, for that demo.
Lmao, I need to hire you to be my producer.
@@SpecOfTechHaha, nice. No actual experience doing any of this, but just across town if you ever wanna bandy silly ideas over cheeseburgers 🍔.
Best I recall from previous videos is that your kids are older than ours. Our smallest is 20lbs and only so so sturdy on his feet…I bet we could blow him over with the Edge of Tomorrow scene! 😂
@@jesseaylward7469 Lol that poor little guy wouldn't stand a chance. We'd at least put pillows behind him to break his fall.
Are you going to the Calgary Audio Show at The Audio Room on Oct 26? I do plan on going, maybe I'll see you there?
@@SpecOfTechHadn’t heard of it but that sounds awesome. Just registered. When (roughly) in that 11-4 timespan do you think you’d be there? I’ll head over for a bit and will come say hello if I see you
@@jesseaylward7469 I haven't decided on a specific time yet. I am still out of town working. I'm 90% sure I'm going, and would probably get there somewhere around 1 or 2pm. Definitely come say hi if you see me filming or walking around. Would be awesome to meet you.
So if u had to pick one…. 9000 or 8000?
I'd take 2 D9000 to help with low end and then 2 D8000 Pro to add a little punch lol. Honestly, simply for a size stand point I would take the D8000 Pro. It's a little bit more narrow and fits my front stage a little better than the D9000. Honestly, you can't lose with either of them, if you want lots of output.
i like my wallet more
Single JTR looks better than the 8000 pro and 9000 together iirc the graph.
Across the spectrum or just in the ULF?
Depends on what you consider to be better. The JTR has more output below 14hz, but the D8000 Pro and D9000 as single subwoofers (not measured together) have more above that, if my memory serves me correct. If you want a lot of low end output, JTR is a fantastic choice and is really hard to beat. But it doesn't beat the D8000 Pro and D9000 when they are measured together. Except for maybe below 10hz. Above that the D8000 Pro and D9000 have significantly more output.
@@bryanpataky9751 We'll find out in my next video. I'll be comparing the REW measurements of them in my room.
And, do you speak of the 2400 in JTR lineup?
@@SpecOfTech Very true. I rushed into (2) 2400's and find them lacking in chest bump and ridiculous in ULF. I have the latter attenuated @ my wife's insistence.😜
According to data-base their CEA2010 max burst are below avg compared to their S2 starting @ 50hz up
Ouch! That thing costs more than my entire home theater!
Lots of output and home shaking bass isn't cheap lol. It is on the lower end for cost when it comes to a high output subwoofer.
It’s all about perspective. Some of us spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on this hobby. It’s amazing to me how much value is packed in given the capabilities of these units vs other high output subwoofer competitors.
@@brucecarter6205 I built my own and bought an amp. It was easy and cheap. Sounds great!
Is it just me or do the subs not seem to be in time with each other?
That's just typically due to the camera frame rate. They can also sometimes look like the deformed due to the same thing. The camera frame rate isn't anywhere near fast enough so it can have weird results with fast moving objects.
@@SpecOfTech I have watched hundreds of videos of multiple sub set ups, even ones with 12 18's next to each other in a van. I have never seen subs appear this way during excursion to this extent. Must be a certain frame rate combined with a certain frequency to do this.
What was all that vibration at 3.00 min mark. Sounds like distortion???????
The mic was clipping and my fireplace was vibrating violently.
@@SpecOfTech You need a dedicated room for reviews then.
@@ejohnson3837 I need a lot of things lol. I just do what I can with what I have. I do this for the love of the hobby and to help the community. I don't make enough to reno my house or buy a new one...cheers.
@@SpecOfTech " I need a lot of things "😂
@@SpecOfTechI’ve been in your room, you are much further ahead than a lot of us. I have my HT in my main living room. Lol
My single 15 is 1920 watts rms this seems low for duals
I wouldn't focus on the wattage number alone, look at the output numbers I posted. It puts out a lot of SPL, even with the 1500 watts RMS.
@@SpecOfTechthat's plenty of power for 15s!
A dual 15 will put out the same with 1k watts as your single 15
@@SpecOfTech cool idk much about wattage etc just seemed strange to me is all glad it is a non factor
It’s not that simple. Driver sensitivity/efficiency plays a major role, as well as cabinet volume, etc.