Metallica, Drum Editing & The Demand For Perfection.
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- Опубликовано: 12 дек 2023
- Back in July there was a controversy about Metallica editing the live audio for one of their videos, and has recently come back up again. Let's talk about the need for perfection and why I dont think anyone should care...Or should they?
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I'd be more upset to attend a show that Lars couldn't play his parts right then that they fixed it for a live release.
Yes.
Yes. You can actually play live AND sound good. A capable musician can do both.
"Live" albums are almost never 100% live except bootlegs. I can remember hearing a lot of bands talk about it in the early 80s on "Rockline". It's almost mandatory as there's always a hum, or crowd noise, bad mic response to something, or someone blew their part, or something that went sideways for whatever reason.
That's not the cover of "KISS Alive II".
I loved this video! you made all the points I've been making for years and gave me some new ones to use in the future.
I agree with a lot of this. Also, I saw them on the M72 tour and got to stand right next to his kit for the opening 4 songs. Dude was on fire. And when you are that close, you actually hear his kit, not what's coming from the PA. His footwork was great. But I'm also there for the live experience, in the moment. If they want to clean up some kick drums for a youtube video, I really don't care. An opening band that night was mostly backing tracks, which I find WAY more insulting.
I think a lot of people who have never played live don't understand that (even in a smaller venue) when you are on stage you really can only hear and play along with what is in your monitor and some visual queues from your band mates. If your monitor is on the fritz or someone accidentally mutes the drums or guitar (or whatever) on the monitor channel you are flying BLIND. The sound coming back to you from the front of house PA is going to be delayed and muddy at best no matter what you are playing, but especially for drummers who are not standing in front of a rig. I think a lot of us have been there at some point, but I don't think the general audience really understands it. This MIGHT explain what happened here, I have no idea but also I don't really care either.
Backing tracks don’t even bother me as long as the musicians on stage are playing their instruments. If I had to guess, I’d probably assume the band in question was Ice Nine Kills and those guys are amazing musicians. There’s even video of the lead vocalist’s mic cutting out and the bassist steps in and does the leads for him until he could get a new mic.
@@usaflagraybans correct guess on INK. I don't doubt their talent or musicianship at all, but there are a lot of backing tracks, including guitar and vocals, going on during their live set. Their previous member JD has a video on his channel that breaks down all the backing tracks they used, so they don't hide it. Its just a personal preference for me.
@@MegaBeardo entirely fair. I’m 28, so I guess I just grew up in the time when backing tracks were already so common, it doesn’t bother me.
WRONG. These people paid many euros/dollars and they MUST experience a great performance. Metallica needs a new drummer and lead guitarist.
Some people are actually used to the perfection they actually adore on the albums of many bands. And I can hear the same people complain about the live performance in case of NO edit at all, that Lars is already weak, done, not able to play etc...
Everyone does the corrections these days, because we are used to hear perfection. I am glad that Metallica still plays live. So bad that people forget about the fact that music should connect people, on the stage, in the audience, all together. Even the real performance was definitely not the worst thing I heard.
At some point, we'll all miss bands like Metallica, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest... the time is close. We should enjoy them while they are still here.
Let's agree that we are far off the 'perfection' neighborhood in this case? Iron Maiden have never been this mediocre, they actually perform quite well live, and they sound quite better too from the crowd's perspective, for a ticket that's a fraction of the price of Metallica's.
I can't listen to so much modern punk and metal. I'm not completely against Molodyne, to tune the occasional phrase that's out, but it shouldn't be audible. And it certainly shouldn't be all over the whole vocal, like it was a singing keyboard nailed to the MIDI grid.
I hate that sound in pop music, but it definitely doesn't fit in metal.
Music shouldn't be perfect, it should be real. Otherwise, we may as well hang up our guitars and let the AIs generate our music for us.
Amen
That's why people want the live stuff untouched as if you want perfection listen to the flac file from the offical cd...
With all the complaining people do about them sometimes I wonder why those people are even fans.
To twist an old phrase, with “fans” like that, who needs enemies?
I think you’re sort of combining the idea of tweaking a take someone actually did and supplementing a part that wasn’t done at all. There should be limits to doctoring. Intent of playing is absolutely a thing and if that wasn’t a great live version, it shouldn’t have been released. Release a night when he actually did the part and quantize it if needed, that’s DIFFERENT.
Spot on. When an audience actually hears something that was played at a particular show, and that audio is "cleaned up", that's one thing. But when this audience did not even hear that particular drum part (a drum part which is pretty much the essence of "One") and kicks were added in later, I don't like it.
I'm too old, I guess. Played drums for 46 years in quite a few bands. Never "made it", but extremely proud of my entire career. And I'm firmly in the camp that auto-tune and quantizing is absolutely the worst thing that's happened to music ever.
I find it interesting that Fluff said that the goal is perfection. That is absolutely true, and should be the goal for every musician. But the way to get there is to get your ass in the practice room and put in the work. If you can't play it live perfectly, don't play it, and work on it more. One of the top 2 best experiences of my entire career was almost 10 years ago, recording a 5 song EP with my band in a pro studio, live, all of us in one room, playing. No overdubs, no auto tune, no drum samples. Just us, live. And we rehearsed those songs for well over a thousand hours to be able to pull that off. Is it 100% flawless? No. But it's as close as we could possibly get, and we put out a banger of a record thanka to all that hard work.
Put in the work. Make the effort. Don't take shortcuts. You'll be a better musician for it. As for the Metallica controversy? If Lars didn't properly play the kick part in "One" that night, they should not have released the video, period. Because despite the millions of views it will get, there will ALWAYS be a sizeable audience that was actually at the show and knows that they are flat out lying by releasing a fixed version. And that's just disrespectful. Just my 2 cents. Peace. ✌️
Agreed. While I do agree with Fluff, they really should've chosen another night where he was maybe tighter.
Amen
These people paid many euros/dollars and they MUST experience a great performance. Metallica needs a new drummer and lead guitarist.
Imagine that. Metallica makes a live video sound better than it actually did, and uploads it to the internet for free, where fans who couldn't attend the show can enjoy it. Internet rage issues.
Mad world.
@@Mr_AshleyMradd' you enunciationaity skill are/is lacking. Its pronounced "Mraad"
@@Tyler-ry3lk Mraad world
I think there's a big difference between altering a performance and adding something that wasn't there. Milli Vanilli wasn't autotuned; it was two entirely different people singing. Sample replacing and time aligning Lars is one thing but adding kicks that just weren't there? Doesn't seem right.
But they're there on the record... what's your point? That he can't play it anymore? Got it.
@@mario23sb I don't care about your opinion.
I listen to the Van Halen live double album a lot. There are a couple places where you can hear a overdub after you listen to it a bunch of times.
What I heard about the last Van Halen live album is the Eddie did not want any editing on Live At TokyoDome. He wanted the album to have all the warts in it. He wanted to be human.
Perhaps there was an issue with the mics on one of the kick drums, remember he uses 2. I’ve only seen them twice and the sound was always killer
+1 on that. granted i've heard of this story and (as a consequence) the live version for the first time thanks to this video, but i immediately thought it could be a problem on the FOH side cause if you listen to the kicks the notes he's playing are the first and third 24th note and the second and fourth are missing, which would be the ones played on the second kick. my best bet is that the audio that ended up on the live recording was recorded upstream and the issue with the missing kicks occurred further down the line.
i don't even like metallica btw so it's not like i'm trying to justify the whole story, it just came pretty natural to me to think that's what happened
‘Cleaning up’ audio is not equal to fundamentally replacing what was played
It wouldn't be a bad thing to hear bands get out there and play live without all of the bells and whistles of technology. Those nuances of the imperfections are sometimes what bring the music (and the show) to life.
I really dont think that James Vocals are autotuned. He just sings great.
Great commentary, Fluff.
Another notable live album is Thin Lizzys Live and Dangerous. 75% overdubed in the studio, depending on the source you read. Still a great record!
Regarding the Lars situation, completely agree. Metallica want to out out the best they can. The audio was being remixed anyway so why not correct the drums?
Finally what needs to be taken into account is WHY the live drum sound was different?
Did a kick pedal beater come loose?
Was Lars just tired or got a leg cramp?
Maybe he just felt like changing it up a bit? Kirk does this all the time with his solos and no one looses their minds about it (mostly!).
Whatever the reason, when it came back to the studio it was decided that this should be edited and thats absolutely fine
The real reason people are going mad about this is simple. Its Metallica and its Lars. Could there be a bigger target for haters???
I have no problem with autotune, drum editing etc. on record. The only problem I have is calling the video "live". I mean why not just play the studioversion to the live footage then?
If that is the perfektion (live) we're aiming for we should be doing Electronic music. The magic (for me) in a live performance is the slightl mistakes, different solos, different singing etc.
I only have an issue with it if it's advertised as the "live audio". It sets an expectation and if the video is being used to make a profit and advertise well,.. there's a law against false advertisements.
I like both imperfect and "perfect-ified" music. "Perfect" music sounds fine to me, but I've also never cared about demanding absolute perfection in order to enjoy music. After all, I know how many takes I need to record a guitar/bass/drum part I think is "good enough" for my own music (more than a few) and so I know it's ridiculous to demand lightning to strike every single time with every single take and recording of every single song. At the end of the day, all I ask is "does what's coming out of the speakers inspire me?" and if the answer is "yes" then it's good. If the humanist element is part of what makes it good, then it is good. If the perfect nature of the music sounds good, then that's good too. I don't care if the entire recording is made from virtual instruments. I can't repeat this enough... if it sounds good, it is good. However, on the other side of the coin, if it's balls-awful and doesn't speak to me, then no amount of "human element" or "perfectly pitched and quantized" processing is going to fix it.
I worked at a very large venue. A prominent performer from the 70’s who still tours consistently to this day has closed rehearsals so they can run through the show twice. First time through to see what the performers voice sounded like that day. They then go through terabytes of previous live vocal performances from that venue and they would put parts the performer was having trouble hitting on drum triggers. Then they would run the complete show a second time w the new trigger cues. Technology really is incredible.
Flemming also talked about how parts of Master of Puppets were recorded slower, and then sped up in post. They did this with vocals as well - record it slower and in a lower pitch, then speed it up and raised the pitch (basically analog pitch correction). Studio tricks have ALWAYS been a thing.
ooh... you hit on something there at 9:04 - "Everything is corrected. Everything is about taking (the) human element out of the song and the music..."
And THERE is the problem. When you take the human element out of art, does it still have the same impact? Is it even art?
And it's so fucking funny to me when people like Fluff are like, "that's what people want/like/expect?". Okay, do they though? Or is it what the industry thinks they want, or has conditioned them to expect? The fact that people clearly get worked up when they catch overcorrection like this, and the fact that retro music like Running Up That Hill can still chart decades later tells me that people don't want inhuman perfection. The industry wants to remove all variables, of which the natural inconsistency of the human voice and body is a big one. But people want art they can relate to, that expresses something they relate to, and that speaks to a shared humanity.
Radio friendly pop is a commercial product, and if they want that to be so inhuman that it literally sounds and feels like plastic, fine. But while metal is often a very technical field of rock and requires more editing than say, punk music, to say the point is taking the human element out, I'm sorry, no. You should push the boundaries of possibility without losing that. The minute you abandon the human element, then it's not art anymore
My band multitrack/multicam our own shows and I usually only upload songs that doesn't need any fixing/edits before uploading...
But in some cases there's some live moments I do want to share that has some god-awful mistakes and in those cases I might slide in some other takes from another liveshow to cover it up, but I don't re-record any guitars or vocals at home, instead puzzling in some other actual live material since I might have multitracked the songs over a couple of shows and have some options :)
Saw Metallica in 2012 and it was one of the best concerts I've ever seen. Don't remember if there were any mistakes in the performance like this, but I've understood for a long time that live music is a much different thing than recording in the studio.
I don't really think it's fair to expect anyone to be perfect especially when you're performing as often as Metallica. It really takes a toll on a person's body.
i dont recall where i heard or read this but is it true that the "live" tracks on G'nR's Lies were actually performed in studio with the audience then added in?
I doubt most live albums are unedited these days. Same applies to many drum playthroughs, like Reynlord has shown. People just don't bash others like they do Lars, who's the ultimate scapegoat.
very true well said
Many people make a big deal out of Rob Halford re-recording the vocals on Unleashed in the East. He had a cold the night of the recording and wanted the album to better reflect a Priest show. I don’t care, it’s one of their best albums IMHO. People need to chill out a little.
Seems like Kick drum mic issue. Do we think lars cant play this after 30 years? Give the guy a break.
Quite honestly it sounds like one of the two kick mics wasn’t in the mix. He probably played it right, but for whatever reason one of the kicks didn’t get projected to the audience.
I remember when the Mark Tom and Travis show came out and I thought wow they sound so amazing - I never seen them live ever. Then when youtube came out and some of the actual live performance videos were uploaded for the first time, I thought okay, this sounds different. I never cared.. what sounds good sounds good and the fact that some of the music gets doctored for a release just means they care about what others are hearing. And they're getting old, too.. can't expect Lars to keep hitting those double bass notes accurately and every time.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 well said.
- AC/DC's performance at Donington is known to have a lot of guitar overdubs, some people even noting differences between the VHS and Blu-Ray versions.
- Dexter's vocal track on their Hellfest 2022 performance is completely autotuned in their official video releases, compared to audience footage.
- I once noticed a glaring difference between the audio and what a RUclipsr (don't ask me the name) plays during a gear video.
- Drum triggers have been used on live drums for what, nearly (if not over) three decades now?
With a lot of music nowadays, our ears are very used to both quantized beats and on pitch vocals. In the end, do people like the song and/or performance? Yes or no? That's what each audience member has to decide. I'm not surprised by the edited drums or the autotune vocals, whether it's Metallica, or any band/artist out there in the modern age.
I'm still traveling to another city 😝 just to go see them. 🤘🤘🤘🤘
One of the best sounding live metal bands I’ve ever heard is Killswitch Engage. I’ve seen them in coliseums, stadiums, open air festivals, on a boat, in smaller more intimate clubs… every single time I see em I go thank their sound man. Legit flawless. Every pinch harmonic, every Tom hit every scream. Just fucking perfection. I don’t wanna know if they correct or overdub or use a track. I’m never disappointed after a show. That’s the experience I want. I think that’s the experience all fans want. If you’re gonna be a purist and condemn it that’s fine no one’s telling you have to like it just stfu and let the rest of us enjoy it, thanks.
There was a great interview with Mike Gillies on Metal Up Your Podcast about this exact thing. Editing live performances as they release all their live shows since 2004. I’m paraphrasing but he said, if people are buying and listening to the show, they want the live show but without all the little flubs or screw ups. It’s been done to numerous shows where Kirks guitar went out, or extreme feedback on a guitar or James vocals etc. Lars has always been the easy target for Metallica so it seems to me just another example of this.
Any band that puts out live performances, has it edited before it’s out. Especially considering metallica does all their shows. There are bound to be mistakes from show to show.
You’re correct that we don’t hold vocalist or pop records/singers to the same standards and everything is corrected these days, BUT does that make it right? Does that mean we should just let it go? I’m my opinion no. We pay a lot of money to see the live shows especially for a band like Metallica, and I think phoning it in kinda is a cheat. Why do we want to give it a pass? They’re doctoring the vids and audio to make you think something is better than it really is, and we’ve become complacent with that. Like the standard is lowering more and more each year.
people complain is there is a mistake, if they correct the mistake, if there are no mistakes.... no wonder KISS is going Avatar .....
Live albums are also usually a compilation of several shows on the tour where they use the best performances. Sometimes they patch together different performances into the same song. Some LIVE albums even tell you which concerts the song is from. Some examples are Chris Cornell and Ozzy Live & Loud. And even those have edits. People used to not be so obsessed over these things. Music and concerts were about having a good time and seeing your favorite artist not competing for perfection. The Allman Brothers have released countless pure, unedited live albums and I prefer the edited ones after the novelty wears off.
I put Zero auto-tune on a song because it sounded rough and raw...
❤
Seen Metallica 17 times at this point they are amazing! Every concert is a Journey The keyboard cowboys will never understand that. I used to love when they used amps because from one concert to the next the sound changed and the band sounded different and played different. Moist day they sounded dark and sludgy dry the amps were tight and they sounded faster! I think the differences is what makes a show special. If i wanted to hear a Cd i would stay home on my couch We go to a live show for the Experience and power and the energy not for the perfection. Its rock N roll! Let it ride
So why shouldn't future genrtions enjoy the same thing you heard?
If you're gonna blame it on something, blame it on the rain... . .
💯💯💯
Artists can do whatever they want with their art. But then they should also own the fact that it has been doctored and be honest about it. Don't label a performance as "live" if it's not 100% live. As a professional photographer, my feeling is it's ok to remove parts of an image (stray hair, garbage in background, etc.) and still call it a photograph. But if I were to add subjects into the image, then it's no longer a photograph and more of a composite image. An artwork rather than a photo. In a live performance, it'd be ok to remove feedback or a bad cymbal sound or cut out a bad solo. But to then add parts later in studio, that's no longer a live recording. It's a composite. Not saying it's right or wrong, art is art. Just be honest about it. Because AI is improving fast and we're all going to be misled about what's real and fake anymore.
I was at Download this year seeing Metallica, I didn't even clock that bit wasn't "played properly" live, or edited when I watched the video back and I've listened to Metallica since I was a kid.
I'm also a producer myself, and yeah overdubs of live recordings are a thing, we even did it for my first gig for university when I was 18... It's just the business of making stuff sound good y'all. I don't quite know why people seem to have this idea that music is some ancient sacred art form, that must be un-edited and touched as little as possible to be preserved for millennia, so people must know how authentic the performance and recording was... Do what you gotta do to make stuff sound how you want it to, doesn't matter if it took 1 take or 100.
I don't care at all either! I love the sound of their live albums.
I have a hard time caring about this. Lol. But, I know comments help you so here we are.
Replies and interactions help as well! I'll also like your comment 😜
I totally disagree here. The whole point of a live album is to be live, mistakes and all. I totally get taking a couple of songs from one city, and a couple from another, but it should be LIVE. Just because it’s been done since the 70’s does not justify it. And there are MANY artists that actually release live albums with all of their warts….because as you say, that is the EXPERIENCE… missed notes, sped up songs from excitement, missed drum parts from a dropped stick. That’s the entire point.
The whole like "they added hits there in post bla bla bla" bullshit is mostly just that ...bullshit lies from haters that dont want to believe that the part was actually performed perfect. For example i watched tonnes of Metallica live streams and recordings, professional and unprofessional. And they just are that tight. Yes not at every single gig ever but thats impossible. But its not like someone sits there and adds fake edits every double bass part because Lars "misses" them. If you do some research and look at cell phone videos etc from that gig you will in fact always see that he nailed the parts just like they are supposed to be played. People just want to discredit him because its hip. Also ever so slightly moving some hits around here and there to make it extremely tight can be necessary depending on the music and the parts.
I remember their very early attempts at “official bootleg” releases. They basically recorded every show directly off the sound board and sold it on the internet, mostly so that fans that went to that show could have a copy as a keepsake. I had a couple of those shows that I bought back in 2003 and 2004. They were pretty rough without any edits. I don’t think that’s the way to to go, because I haven’t listened to those shows in years. They just weren’t that good. The really shocking part is that people think a live performance is going to sound the same as a studio recording. It’s just not possible, no matter how much you wish it to be so.
I hope you guys feel better now that you have that off your chests 😂
This is so ridiculous that someone would actually think that every piece of music they listen to today that was recorded after the year 1980 was recorded live off the floor with no editing.
Aside the kiss, live albums, every live album in my collection. The credits are given to the producer who edited the live performance before it was distributed for sale.
Seriously to the person who wrote this article and started this rant throw down your crown man.
Don’t get me wrong I’ve seen Metallica numerous times and yes Lars could stand to tighten up his playing skills but on the flip side these guys are pushing 60 years old if not older how long did the metalhead think they’re going to continue to play those fast drum licks without any mistakes.
Was, Ashley Simpson the girl who's career ended the moment the backing track malfunctioned on SNL?
I agree with you 100% sir, people just want to crap on Lars Ulrich any chance they get. At one time he was one of the best drummers out there.
"Eh...who cares....AI will be replacing all the musicians shortly anyway." Ok, not a direct Fluff quote, but an...amusing take, right? Or maybe it won't be so amusing when AI does everything, and our technical prowess as musicians will 100% be useless. Just saw some YT ad saying "Don't know music theory or just how to make chords? No problem! Here, buy our software and just push a button and you've "made" great music!" Paraphrased, but it's to my point about musicianship often being lost, and it seems like a growing trend even if it had been around in various forms over time.
And I do count Lars' bad drumming in that conversation, many have, for years...and I think it's totally fair. If someone enjoys the show, then that's cool. But if we praise people for performances where they nailed it, well it seems ok to speak honestly about them not nailing. Honestly, there's nothing wrong with honesty. In fact I'd say we need a lot more of it these days (likely annoying big world view talk at this point if you're even still even reading this rant at this point...so go look at pics of cute kittens and puppies to brighten your day!).
Sounds like he played most of the kicks notes as just double 8th notes. He might have been thinking that he wouldn't be able to do it properly, and that it could be written in for the YT video. -- Separately, for studio stuff, I think many people underestimate how much time it takes to get takes that are: in time, in tune, good performance tone, and (the right) emotion put into the performance, all at the same time. And if perfection is being chased, priority is often given to emotion placed into the performance, if near everything is going to be gridded and pitch modified anyway, or at least optimised. As long as the take can be made into that idealised form, and sound right, it's good enough. Also how small modern takes are, and then comping. A lot of favourite albums have (not super commonly known) stuff like drum ambience samples too, such as in Nevermind and BiB. I suspect that, for as long as it's been possible, most tools have been on the table, and used when needed (if they can afford the cost), so long as it sounds right to listeners.
I tend to lean towards the idea that the goal of music is for it to sound good, and to simply do something for us the listener, so do whatever it takes. However,
To echo someone else’s comment, the more problematic situation is for the person who paid for that live show and the musicians didn’t deliver well, moreso than the disparity between that and the video. You absolutely do not have to choose between having a live or a good performance; a capable musician can do both. I have seen high level musicians play live numerous times who are capable of consistently playing that double bass part in “One” in a live setting. Anyway, a lot of this comes down to what the meaning of “live” is. I don’t mind if you make a good sounding, processed studio album. Just don’t call it live if it’s not. Be honest about what you can actually deliver live, and if people are paying to see you play live, you better be capable of actually playing in time live.
Been to 4 Metallica gigs within the last 6 years. Lars always played his parts.. a little different but not enough for me to be like “oo that’s bad” I love Lars and no one else could play Metallica like him… I think the moment when we all sell millions of albums and play thousands of shows we can judge the way they do things.. they have proven themselves way before most of us were even born… we should pay more attention to these new bands that use vocal tracks and bass tracks live that’s irritating to just press a button on stage and there you go.
My two cents here, most of the evidence is coming from a phone recording. The official live release was recorded, most likely, through the sound board which would pick up sounds that probably wouldn't be in the phone recording.
KISS Alive was one of their biggest sellers and certainly put them on the map for a lot of people and was enhanced in the studio.
I also heard that Judas Priests Unleashed in the East was also dubbed on some tracks.
The story I heard was that Halford was sick on that tour and he wasn't happy with his vocals.
Taking away the fact they arent as young as they used to be, lars has been known to be subpar live, and in the studio, sure they have the budget to do it 80 takes and comp it together, it shouldnt be that way, a little practice goes a long way.
I mean I think there's a difference between correcting a performance and adding something that was never there. I am all for editing a performance to be as good as it can be but when you're adding complete elements that weren't even attempted to be performed idk why I'd watch this video instead of listen to the 1988 recording. Id much rather have seen a cleaned up version as they performed it and captured that moment more closely.
It’s an official release on their channel. They wanted it to sound the best. No other corrections besides that kick drum. Maybe the mic was malfunctioning and the triggers captured it? I dunno. I see nothing wrong with it though.
Just my opinion and it doesn’t mean much. With the kiss and other live albums from back in the day there simply wasn’t the on the spot comparison. Today a bands live show will be loaded up & posted before the show is even over…lol. Thanks to technology we now have what it actually sounded like as compared to what the bands want us to believe they sound like. Good or bad I don’t know…just enjoy the music
There are a few issues here. One being that Metallica have earned themselves a reputation for being kinda difficult to love. The Napster thing and then the documentary of their therapy sessions have made them easy targets. HOWEVER, people don't realize how hard it is to perform at that level every night, especially playing fast, technical stuff like anything from Metallica's first 4 records. Not to mention that Lars in particular is basically going to be compared to his 25 year old self whether he should be or not. He probably can't physically play the way he did when he was 24 or 25 anymore.
The Napster thing they were absolutely correct about. Just because their view of it was unpopular at the time does not make them wrong. They could see what was coming, even before the record labels did.
Yes, they were right about Napster. But at the time I think they pissed off a bunch of people.
@@singleproppilot I'm not saying they were wrong, but the backlash they got from that and from the documentary thing was pretty intense
Yo Fluff - to your point re: Milli Vanilli, it's important to mention that their producer Frank Farian completely eff'd them over. He took advantage of the fact that Rob and Fab didn't speak English as their first language, literally just using them as a vehicle to make money. He actually threw them under the bus when people started noticing that they may be lip syncing; they were duped from the beginning (though they did try to sue). Farian did a similar thing to Bobby Farrell of Boney M.
That said (I know it wasn't the focal point of your video) I absolutely agree with what you've said here. Thank you for sharing your views.
It doesn't bother me at all. Now if the artist states they didn't do anything to the live recording and it comes out they did... Then yeah I have a problem with it. Kind of like when you go to a show and they are using backing tracks. I don't care if the artist is up front about it. But when they lie about it, I have a problem with it. I think that's why I prefer watching small club bands, because usually they are not using any backing tracks or any corrections live. I can appreciate that a little more.
I don't personally care that much and expect a *live album* to be touched up in a way.
But with Metallica being this "we release all of our concerts as live albums" machine of a band, maybe some people started to see it more of an archival thing compared to "proper" live albums? Might be overthinking things or give people too much credit, dunno.
Fact: Lars isn't even using the same set up he did in the ...And Justice For All days.
What if the only live recordings of elvis where in fact completely edited? To me that would be terrible so why should any band want to fake a live show? Like you have the offical music video for that...
KISS Alive or Alive II was heavily produced?
Both
Non issue, go to the show, have fun!
I'd be curious to learn more about James' autotuned vocals. You kinda threw that in there but that was the first I'd heard.
Yeah add this to the "get a real problem" column, eh?
I mean... the 'Live product' would have been utterly embarrassing and unenjoyable if the kick track was nor "corrected" (by that I mean totally replaced by a track not played by Lars). It wasn't an option to release it 'unedited'.
Looking at close up fan footage of Lars playing, shows that he is very much capable of performing their tunes. We don‘t know what happened at Download, could‘ve been multiple things that went wrong. People just need to chill tf out, I‘m glad that Metallica is still around and they do sound tight and great. Also I‘m very much looking forward to seeing them live again next year. If you want a bad example look at some rappers these days, they just make some noises over backing tracks and nobody cares about that.
I'm not a big Metallica guy, but it is still the best live performance I've ever seen. Probably about 2006, I want to say... in Toronto. I was much more into Linkin Park those days, and they were only ok. Asian guy rapping doesn't sound as cool without the doubled vocals, which kinda reinforces your point.
its a bit obvious that one if his kick drum mics (or triggers) wasnt coming through the PA
Isn't the whole point of a live performance to... perform, live?
As I sit here editing drums, I have to say I agree.
So, back in the mid '00s or so, Metallica released a live DVD and Lars' drum parts sounded pretty bad. Looking back, I'm surprised they didn't fix it back then. I'm with you, for an official release, I'm okay if small imperfections are fixed in post.
Until people crawl out of their stupid worlds and bitterness to realise the effort and passion Metallica have had for Music since the 1980s will never ever be replicated by anyone fact! Secondly they are getting older thats life if you want to keep it raw go watch the late 80s early 90s shows they have something for everyone ❤🏴🏴🏴.
P.s Fluff keep up the good work 👍
Such an alsolute cop out to see people shitting on Lars, the double standards are rediculous... Look at the amazing music he and the band have given us for the last 40 years, he's paid his dues, hes on the tail end of his career and still touring, people are so spoilt these days, do they realise 90% of the music they listen to now is doctored and edited, probably not.
it comes down to this, did you like it? It's the same outcome regardless of your answer... Good, now kick rocks. :)
Huh... Are you saying a bad drummer's live performance isn't like the record they released? Who would have figured? Lars is not a good drummer. ALL his tracks are editied/replaced/quantized. This is not news.
And yes, many live albums have studio tracks added to clean up the performance. I thought that was common knowledge.
We just live in a society where people are going to bitch no matter what...dun Dunn dun dunt sad but true
Also as good as cell phones are these days they really don’t pickup everything
Fluff 👍👍 great with some "insights" 🇩🇰🇩🇰🇩🇰
best fruit forward
Like KISS, Metallica are a commodity, a product, not a band whose fanbase can't tell the difference and that's the way it's going to stay.
I love Metallica but in my opinion they are the most commercially successful metal band. In order to be commercially successful you do things like that. It’s unfortunate but consistency is hard to maintain and they need to keep earning the big bucks so fix the mix to make it sound good.
I was showering in the artist area at Download during One and all I can say is that I was so bummed out. Like, laughing to myself bummed out.
Your mammy's got big onion flavored bunions. Yippie!!!
@@Tyler-ry3lk Hell yeah, brother.
When it comes to Lars Ulrich, the human factor does not count anymore (at least for me).
He's a great guy. A great musician. But drumwise he just shouldn't be in this band.
I like metallica. But the ever ongoing problems with detuned guitars, sloppy solos, sloppy drum playing can't be the justice to say: "They are the most successful heavy metal band".
i don't think fans are mad they worked it up. i think they're more mad that he just can't do it. at one point he maybe passed as a POSSIBLE technical drummer of SOME kind. you know, if you squint real hard. but his barebones basic drumming, left all the open room for hetfield to basically play the drums on the guitar and basically use lars as a click track. that's where metallica really shines.
he can't do it anymore. leave it at that. take it for what it is.
Pitch correction is all over S&M
I actually don't mind the vocal part mostly because the guy himself is pretty cool when it comes to Lars the guy is a total asshole. I've met him on several occasions and every time he was a total prick. So the fact that he's doctoring up his drums but he's an asshole that's what really sucks and pisses a lot of people off. If he was a nice guy and very likable which I don't know some people do because he's fake. But back to the point when an asshole does something like this it's irritating as fuck but when a nice guy does it it's okay and I know it seems wrong but that's the truth....
Enjoy your channel bro Keep up the good work!
Kiss alive was edited as fuck!!
They'll fix a live album but they won't fix st anger
They haven't found a hole deep enough to put it :P
@daevien legends say if you listen closely you can still hear the snare clanging through the night 🌙 🤣
I have assumed for the last few years that at the very least, Lars is playing to a click. I can understand that maybe he practices more than he used to, but you don't suddenly become a metronome after 40 years of being a wobbly tape deck. I'm not surprised that they'd clean up their stuff before putting in on the channel. The videos are every bit as slick as something another band would put on a DVD.
I remember watching some of the actual live performances from Woodstock 94 on youtube that were on the official CD release, and realizing that the CD had been touched up a great deal. Seems counter to the spirit of the show, but at the same time I understand why they'd want it to be a listenable product.
Yes, he plays to a click and has for years now. It’s not even a secret. So do many other drummers, including many great drummers that never have their talent or dedication put in to question as a result. Classical musicians play to a metronome or are led by a conductor. No one seems to think that’s wrong.
Tsk. I don't agree. Sorry Fluff!