224 Predator HEMI Engine Build 212 Hemi Conversion Swap 212cc vs 224cc Challenge Accepted!
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- If you liked the video, Subscribe and Comment. I'm not sponsored so if this type of content doesn't appeal to subscribers, I'll have to stop posting the engine build videos. I purchased these Predator 224 and Predator 212 Hemi engines and performance parts to share the details with you and to have some engine building fun. You're welcome to join me if this kind of stuff interests you, if not, I still appreciate you stopping by and of course you're welcome back anytime.
Thanks, Chris
*UPDATE: At timestamp 26:00 During the voiceover I mistakenly said the Hemi pushrods were "shorter" this is incorrect, the Predator Hemi pushrods are LONGER than the non-hemi pushrods.
Thanks to @ryanclark3789 for pointing this out!*
This has been the 224 Predator engine Hemi head swap to build a 224 HEMI head Predator engine. I built this Hemi head Predator 224 engine because I heard a rumor there would be no Predator 224 HEMI engines produced for Harbor Freight. It looks like that is the case as only one part number/ item number is listed for the 224 Predator Max Performance Engine and they all come with the CA emission controls (charcoal canister). I wanted a 224 Predator HEMI engine regardless if they build them or not so let's build one.
Added info: DIY Willy also has a 224 Hemi Head Swap video series out now as well.
Link to Willy's channel: / @diywilly
@DIYWilly
If you're a Kart Racer Check out @franksoutdoorlife for some great Kart Racing content!
Just a quick note regarding the tank vent: I'll likely be using a different carburetor on this 224 Predator Hemi engine in the future if we go with a performance build of some type, but if I decide to keep this carb on the 224 Predator Hemi engine, I'll shorten the tank vent line and connect it to the open port on the breather assembly. Other than rerouting the line from the charcoal canister the 224 Predator HEMI head swap from the 212 Predator HEMI engine is a direct bolt in swap!
The Predator 224 engine is one of the best harbor freight engines to ever come out in my opinion. The 58mm stroke crankshaft and the DUCAR reinforced block are worth the price of the engine alone.
The Stock Predator 224 rod and dished piston combo is below the deck. Mine measured out at .002 below deck (in the hole .002) I left this combo in the 224 Predator engine block as for this video I was only interested in finding out if we could turn a 224 Predator Non-Hemi engine into a 224 Predator HEMI engine. We may do a performance build on the 224 Predator Max Performance HEMI engine if there is enough subscriber interest.
The 224 Predator Max Performance engine is a direct bolt in swap with a 212 Predator HEMI head. Everything bolts up directly and perfectly onto the 224 Predator Max Performance engine. I did have to install the 212 Predator Hemi push rods along with the 212 Predator Hemi head onto the 224 Predator engine. If you purchase a 212 Predator Hemi engine or Hemi head to do the swap remember to use the Hemi pushrods with the Hemi head install on the 224 Predator Hemi swap. It's easy and everything seems to be a direct bolt in swap if you use a 212 Predator Hemi head you can make a 224 Predator Hemi engine with out of the box parts.
The 224 Predator engine used for this Hemi swap still maintains the stock dished piston and stock rod. For this swap I was only concerned with finding out if the 212 Predator Hemi engine could be used to create a 224 Predator Hemi head engine. I may do a complete 224 Predator Hemi billet rod and piston build with a performance camshaft for this 224 Predator Hemi engine, if there's enough interest. I have some ideas for a piston/rod combination to work with the 224 Predator Hemi head engine that have not been done before to my knowledge. I won't go into detail here as to not give anything away but it will be an interesting build unlike any other you've ever seen.
I will be using the remaining portion of the 212 Predator Hemi engine for a different build project. The little 212 Predator HEMI engine will be rewarded for its sacrifice to the greater good of the 224 Predator engine community.
Parts List to make a 224 Predator Hemi Engine:
1. You'll need a complete 212 Predator Hemi head.
2. The 212 Predator Hemi push rods.
3. Gaskets in case you tear a few: Head gasket, Carb to intake gasket, valve cover gasket, carb to air cleaner gasket. Additionally if you remove the side cover on the 224 Predator engine you may need a side cover gasket as well. You can find a complete gasket kit for clone engines online for less than $10 if you shop around. Most of the gasket kits will fit the 224 Predator engines and the 212 Predator engine without any problems.
#predator224 #enginebuild #predator212 #ghost #kartracing #predator212 #tillotson #billet #ringcompressor #wiseco #rings #besttools #bestgadgets #enginebuilding101 #KentuckyFriedFixes #212hemi #224
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Awesome videos!!!! If you said "Happy little clones" once in a while you would be the Bob Ross of small engines!!!!
Now that's funny. Thanks Wayne.
My 224 hemi is moving boss thanks for the info this thing pull just like a lil two stoke😂
Great job Daniel!
You do an amazing job explaining things in a way that just makes since. I try hard every day to be and maintain a positive attitude. All the popular channels have grown past explaining the simple procedures. They would rather you watch the old videos rather than explain the info that most of the people in general actually need.
Alex I love the input from you guys. When I do these videos, it's not really an instruction video as much as I'm just sharing with everyone how I work on my stuff. I do my best to interact with everyone that leaves a comment and sometimes we get some great conversations going right here in the comments section. I love that! I'm just putting up stuff that I like to do. I don't claim to be the best engine builder or have the best video quality. I'm not even entertaining, but if somebody is having troubles or wants to build their own engine but they're kinda afraid to try, they can spend a little time watching me drop wrenches, parts or ring compressors and realize "if that guy can do this I know I can too". Thanks Alex!
New viewer here and I would like to say thank you for making this video! I was quite curious on how this would work and I don’t have the money right now to buy one of these engines. You make the video simple and easy to watch. Thank you again and I’ll be following along with your videos. I also hear that engine builders don’t like the hemi heads because it’s hard to use that head with a big cam. (Piston to valve clearance). Right now I’m trying to build a hemi 212 motor with a pretty radical cam and a .020 longer rod. Need more money and homework to see if my clearances will check out. Thanks again!
Welcome! I appreciate you stopping in. It's true the non-hemi heads are much easier and cheaper to go fast. There are problems with the valve to piston clearance on the Hemi designs when using current design pistons but a few have caught on to cutting the valve reliefs. What we need is a new piston design for the Hemi head engines and maybe some better head castings. Thanks!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes thanks for the response! That is definitely an option but i do not have the tools to get it precise. I would need to send it to a machine shop that have the correct tools. Not sure of the piston crown thickness aswell which I’ll eventually measure. I know of a couple ways to cut valve reliefs at home on the cheap but not percise which I might do depending on my clearances. I’m really into your videos and I will subscribe so I don’t miss any content!
@@3generation_racing658 Thank you
@@3generation_racing658 Hi. You can chop notches in a used or spare inlet & exhaust valve & cut the piston notches by cutting pockets with the piston at TDC & use your Hemi head & the std valve up the guide chucked in a 110 volt black & decker type hand drill & chuck the valve stem on the drill chuck on the rocker side of the head & you can even mount a piece of electrical guide up on the valve stem to stop you cutting to deep maybe say an 1/8"th cut & round the eyes slightly in the piston top to allow for some carbon room.If you can get a fairly priced spare new piston, if you can't gestimated the piston crown thickness with your fingers you can buy a spare piston: cut it in half & easy measure the crown thiskness, them you'll feel confident in how far down you can cut !.
Rough & ready but it's always worked for me !.Cheers from NewZealand .
Oh my God I just read EXACTLY what I was going to write on n on the last comment brother! You ARE the Bob Ross of small engine building! And that's a great thing. I absolutely like watching your videos for technical info better than anyone's! Your calm disposition and the way you explain things I just retain it better! Thank you very much! Let there be many more happy little motors!
Thanks Chris! I appreciate you!
I just bought a 224 hemi at Harbor freight. Did not know it until I got home and opened the box. I was so happy. I am getting it ready to put on a go cart. Love your videos. coming to you from Florida.
Hi Dalton! I'd love to see that engine! Please make some videos and post! I'll be happy to link to your channel and videos! I was under the impression that Harbor Freight was phasing out the 224 engines. If they've started making the 224 with a Hemi head that is just awesome!
Yes sir, it surprised me when I opened the box. I was very happy. I am 72 and just getting into go carts. We live out in the woods in Florida. I just spent 6 years fighting bone cancer and dialysis. My cart is how I get around and go fishing. I am not in shape to drive a car anymore, but I love my cart. I just put a stage 1 kit in my hemi from watching your videos. Thank you so much for making them.
@@daltonvickersjr9441 We're never too old to have fun!
This is like the Bob Ross channel for engines... Here we have two happy little engines Lets have our happy little friends share some parts :)
Kameron you're too funny! Thanks for watching.
7:30 Chin Yong says we gonna give American hard time 😂😂😂😆😆😆
Thanks for the video. I chat buy a hemi here in California and I always wanted one. I can buy a 224 sooo??? Thanks to you sir I just might get my hemi 224 custom. Subscribed!!!
Thanks Willy, Welcome!
Good stuff your the first I seen do this! Thanks for the step by step content 👍🏽
Thanks Janice, you're too kind.
Now..the NEXT Question is.... can you put a hemi headed Predator 224 on to a Coleman BT200x Mini Bike? That would be a fantastical video.......
Yep, plenty of 224 BT200X bikes out there already!
Of course you can.
Your videos are so informative and your commentary is always entertaining. Keep grinding
Thanks Lex! I appreciate you!
I have always wondered what difference would show up on a dyno with a hemi head versus a non hemi head equipped with Champion rockers. All else being equal.
A dyno would be nice. Hmmm..
Yes it would. From my but dyno I would say them hemi heads start making good tourqe at a lower rpm. My mini bike is hard to not wheelie with my Tillotson hemi head where my GX 160 head would go from 6000 to 8000 faster then the hemi head.
FIY the reason you are not supposed to reuse gaskets is every time you tourqe let's say a head the gasket gets smaller and smaller. Trust me if you are building a high performance engine/ stroker/ high compression that's were it matters. If you are not measuring every clearance then buy all means it does not hurt to reuse gaskets.
@@alexlacroix8127 Hi Alex, new gaskets are always a good idea but I prefer to reuse head gaskets and side cover gaskets on stockers unless it tears. I do measure my clearances especially the gasket thickness on high performance builds. The metal ring on the head gasket will crush .004 once. I've not found any that went any thinner after reuse but I'll keep checking. Thanks!
I watched the whole video, well done 👍. I’m doing Rc nitro right now. Waiting on good weather. To get my mini bike ready.
I can't wait for some warm weather!
Great hemi 224cc build. Been rewatching your videos on the predator 224cc and the ducar 212cc, I've finally ordered a ducar 212cc, should get it soon. Anyway, I've thought about after I run the ducar stock for awhile making it into a ducar hemi 224cc, I gave a 58mm crank from a predator 224cc lying around. Would be interesting to see how it would compare to the predator 224cc
That Ducar 212 engine is a good one! The 224 is too. Both were easily my favorite choices last year. We'll be checking out a new engine soon. Thanks!
I am curious to see if we can find this as just a part (head, internals, and pushrods) or if we will all have to buy a hemi 212 to do the hemi swap. Also curious as to how you think the hemi head would perform on the 224 build you just finished over the head on that engine?
You can buy a Hemi head on Ebay, I've seen them from stock to the welded up big valve heads. You'd wanna look for the Hemi head with the larger dowel pins, some of the early heads had the smaller dowel pins so you'd have to drill those out to the larger size before bolting them to the 224 block. It's not a big deal but it is more work you could avoid just by buying the head that's already got the larger dowel pins. The hemi pushrods are common as well and the head gasket is the same. I've been thinking about changing the head on the billet rod/flat top piston engine for something a little different.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes excited to see what you go with! For efficiency I’ve always been a hemi fan as far as air flow, but in this application you would have to cut the head to keep compression the same I believe. Comparing work versus gains, I’m not sure if it would be worth it or not, really wish I had a dyno.
Zach: not intending to appear to be hitting in to 224 post, but I can get you most of the parts you need to do a Hemi head & parts only not buy an entire engine,cheers from NewZealand
Reiterating you don't have to buy the whole new Hemi engine. As supplies are dwindling, but I am in touch with the factory in China for the 79cc & the liked 212cc, their parts aren't cheap, but if it's like part # levels in the states from HR. It's vastely more & they did say they would dropship to USA direct for me ,as freight direct to NZ 1st is hughmongous.
So if you are genuine & serious I could try & get you the conversation parts you need , like pushrods,valve train & head & tappet cover: I can email them for a freight estimate to east & west coast but pm me please a zip code for both ?. Warning the genuine heads aren't cheap, especially the Hemi...if you've already found a low cost head for sale stateside, It'll be a knockoff....Cheers everyone.From NZ
@@trevinskiking2165 being that they would be freight shipping overseas, it probably wouldn't be enough of a price difference to make the trouble worth while so I will likely just buy a hemi motor as parts. Thank you though
Not sure why so many like the "hemi". they have lousy quench and limited valve lift. you can get so much more power from a wedge head.
Hi Pablo, yep there are challenges to overcome when building with a Hemi design. The non-Hemi heads are wayyy cheaper to go fast. There must be some reason Top Fuel dragsters only run Hemi chamber heads though....11,000 horse power from 500 cubic inches can't be easy to achieve...
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Top fuel engines run a very low static compression and the hemi chamber helps with this. top fuel engines are almost in hydro lock with the amount of nitro they use. and the burn rate of the hemi chamber is slower staving off detonation.
Just made fixturing for my flow bench to put these clone heads on and do some port testing.. I am a carb builder and head porter by trade and I am getting into the carts now that my son is showing interest.. bored with race cars. LOL.. prices of racing are getting out of control..
@@pablojanski.2559 The little engines are a lot of fun. The parts aren't bad by comparison either. $100 for a piston isn't bad if you're not buying 8. I don't think I'd like building kart engines now, too many engine rules and the tech gauging looks impossible to beat.. LOL Thanks Pablo glad to have you here.
There is nothing wrong with those torch plugs that come in the harbor freight engines. I have a wood splitter with a harbor freight 212 on it been on it for over 4 years now still running the original torch plug and the splitter runs any where from 6 to 10 hrs a day 5 days a week as we do firewood as a business and the splitter starts 2 pulls we have more issues with the junk recoils than the spark plugs. It all depends on the gas you buy junk gas you'll have junk engines and plugs same with oil. 110 non ethanol non detergent gas 15w40 diesel oil with high zinc or run the lower weight oils with a zinc additive and you'll have very little issues.
Some of the guys in the UK swear by Torch plugs. I prefer Denso brand for the Briggs racers but NGK seems to be popular for these engines. I guess it probably depends on the application. Anything will fail if it's not used as it was designed for.
Where abouts in Kentucky are you?
I got family at both ends and some in the middle! All the while I'm stuck up here in Detroit😭
Hi William! I'm located in Cave City KY. Just down the road from Mammoth Cave National Park. Welcome!
Yo boss what other parts you use from the hemi on to the 224? Push rods? Lifters?
Hi Daniel! I used the push rods from the hemi so those stayed with the hemi head. I didn't change camshafts or lifters, so the lifters are still the stock 224. Use the hemi push rods with the hemi head and you're golden!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes appreciate it boss keep up the good vids 👌🏼
You are a true spec and tech man and me and my son watch your videos we build a hemi 224 by using the video that you have ty for the video too but it will sound stupid but I also bought a 212 hemi like you did for video my question is can I use the new 212 hemi stock flat top piston and rod for the 224 and it fit the stroker crank I have already been confirmed with the stock hemi cam fitted to replace the original plastic I just was curious if you could give me some advice on it and thank you for the awesome mellow and professional knowledge you share with us on the site
I've not tried it on a 224 but I believe the Hemi flat top is a .550 compression height, it may leave the top of the piston pretty far down the hole in a 224 block as they're much taller than the HF 212 Hemi block. If you're going to use a stock length rod a .570 compression height flat top piston should get you closer to the top of the deck, but I believe it will still be below the deck. Some numbers that may help you: My 224 billet rod build used an EC rod that is 3.353" long and a Wildcat 223 flat top piston that is .530 compression height. My piston was above the deck .008" on my block. With this combination some were reporting .006 to .010 above deck. I think Nic had one that was .017 above deck if I remember right. On the bright side, if you're going to use a Hemi head on your build, it'd be a good idea to have the piston below the deck a bit anyway. Hope this helps.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes thanks for your help and support on the questions I had it was really helpful and I appreciate the time and information you gave me and one last question can I put a non hemi 212 predator crank in a predator hemi block so I can run more variety of the flywheel on a hemi predator engine I like to use the flywheel that has the charging coils under it and the inside magnets on the flywheel so I can get power on the engine to make 12v work for lighting purposes etc the hemi charging flywheel is a good price and it won't be a big deal for the flywheel to be non billet because it will only be doing a max of around 3800 rpm ty in advance for the information
@@tacticalresources6895 As long as you keep the Hemi flywheel with the Hemi crankshaft and the non-Hemi flywheel with the non-Hemi crankshaft you should be good to go. Watch the rod journal diameter. You won't be able to use a clone rod with the Predator cranks. The 224 and the 212 Ghost both have the clone size crank diameter around 1.180" on the rod journal and the other 212 Predator cranks are around 1.190" diameter (.010 larger) on the crankshaft rod journal. Lots of stuff will swap out no problem you just have to keep an eye out for the little things, like making sure you don't mix up the connecting rods, camshafts or side covers as the Hemi cam and side cover are clone size of .549" and the non-Hemi Predators have a larger diameter camshaft journal, so you'll need to keep the camshafts and side covers with their particular block they came on. Why in the World they thought it was a good idea to make so many different sizes for the same parts for these engines is beyond me.
I meant to say that I used the stock hemi cam in the 224 hemi building to be able to get the plastic/metal stock 224 one replaced with a steel cam it is going good with the hemi cam and I am pretty sure it is a good stock replacement cam I measured both my cams and the size was the same so since I have a new hemi predator I used to do this building I threw it in the 224 and planning on upgrading later just wanted to share 😀 👍
@@tacticalresources6895 Awesome! I do prefer the metal cams over plastic too. Some of those stock cams rev pretty good with just adding some springs! There's a build coming up that uses a stock camshaft with 22lb springs and a high ratio rocker. Thanks!
@Kentucky Fried Fixes
If you would be so kind to enlighten me a little bit. In this video you said the hemi push rods are shorter but when I look on "omb warehouse" they say the hemi push rods are longer by about 0.340. Just want to clarify before I try putting things together on my 224.
Thanks Ryan! YES the Hemi pushrods are longer. Thank you for catching this! I'll update the description ASAP. Sometimes when I do the voiceovers I need to remember to put brain in gear before putting mouth into motion! This is what happens sometimes when you're unscripted. It's great to have sharp channel members and fellow engine builders like yourself to remind me when something is off in the video. Thanks again!
That's crazy I bet since they are produced in a country that has different standards then us the deck height is largely different in every block they make because my Wildcat has a lot more deck height then any of my Tillotson's l wonder what the compression height is on the predator 224. The Wildcat has such a talk deck that EC maid a 3.537 or so forged rod to get to TDC.
Great show here my friend. Looking forward to more videos .!!!! Keep up the great work !🦾☀️🌙❤️🔥
Thanks BFP you're too kind.
I tore my 224 down to build and my flywheel was loose on the taper. It had a significant wobble to it
Me too Steve. The first 224 I disassembled the flywheel nut was loose and the flywheel was loose on the taper. It's a wonder it didn't destroy the taper on the crankshaft.
Yeah I'm glad I didn't run mine before teardown. I almost thought I was gonna be able to wiggle it off by hand. I can't imagine the vibration. I wonder if this could cause premature flywheel failure at stock rpm ratings. I think it could for sure cause a cast flywheel to come apart
Put a .010 head gasket on it.
There's not much compression with that dished piston. I'd love to go with a thin head gasket but the piston is only .002 or .003 below deck on this Hemi conversion build, it could theoretically use a .030 head gasket to make a .032 or .033 quench height. IMO it's best not to go below .035 on the quench height unless there's a billet rod in there. This was just a quick head swap to see if it would work. There's much better info on the Hemi builds in my "Ducar 212" Hemi build videos on the channel. Thanks!
Did this lower the compression ratio having the additional room in the hemi combustion chamber?
The stock Hemi head combustion chamber is just a bit larger than the stock non-hemi types. I think they're around 21cc - 22cc on the Hemi and the non-hemi stock is somewhere between 18cc-20cc on most stock Predator engines. I'm sure the compression was lowered just a bit when the Hemi head went on the 224. I'm also pretty sure that's why the Hemi Predator comes stock with the flat top piston instead of the dished. To make it work better I'd need to switch out the dished piston with a flat top in the 224. But this video was just checking to make sure the Hemi head would work on the 224 engine. Lots of room for improvements for sure! I appreciate the discussion!
@KentuckyFriedFixes Thank you for the reply! Interesting stuff for sure. I like the 224 Predators and think they are a great base for a solid build with the reinforced block. Keep up the great content!
The compression went from 8.5 to 7.8 if the chamber went from 19cc to 22cc. but if you put the non hemi head on the 212cc shortblock it would go from 8.5 up to 9.3
@@killerbski9412 Great info Killerbski! And don't forget to add a flat top piston!
I use Lucas to assemble engines, I Ike to put it in the oil pump, so it will prime instantly, sbc oil pumps, I like 50/50 mix with oil, sometimes a zddp additive , if it's a non roller lifter engine, but it doesn't hurt either way, it would probably be good for these little engines,
I'm thinking about building one of these, for a modified Chinese scooter, basically minibike style build a swing arm, that mounts the engine and wheel, and mount it like stock, , with a CVT, gear it to run highway speeds, , my scooter spins 9500 at speed, and has been over 10k rpm, I'm just guessing , but using a ported stock head, with a cam , carb, the power to reliability would be keeping it below 7k-7500rpm, keeping the compression somewhat respectable, it would be awesome to supercharge a 224, and hemi it! If it's anything like the 426 hemis, they like supercharging, because getting enough done on the piston for a good compression ratio, the dome blocks flow in the cylinder! So supercharging / turbocharging works awesome! The little superchargers on ebay, work great,. A rough guess the 224 hemi should make nearly 15hp, with boost it should easily double that, would I be wrong to expect 12-15 HP from one of these engines turning 6k-7500 rpm, with a few mods?
Hi James! I love a 50/50 mix of the thick stiff for assembly when it's warm weather. I use it full strength on the camshaft. With these OHV engines it doesn't take much modification to get into the 12 to 15 HP range. It's surprising really. The same part mods on a 5hp Briggs flatty would probably make around 8 to 10hp. I'm with you on the supercharged hemi engines. I've seen those small superchargers too and that would be fun to try. I've been watching Jim over at Robot Cantina mod his 420 with a supercharger and it's awesome. The small one (AMR300) may work for the 212 or 224, I don't know? It may have to be underdriven a bit. It'd be a must to use a billet rod IMO. Thanks!
How'd this go? I have a hemi head with Stainless valves and NR Molly push rods.
The head was a direct swap. Though the engine still has the dished piston. If I do a build on this one I'll probably replace the rod with a 3.353" EC billet and a reworked Wildcat flat top with some valve reliefs cut. I'd like to take about .020 off the top of the Wildcat piston but I gotta put together something to hold it in the lathe without roughing up the skirts!
The 224 head out flows the hemi head by a lot I get more top end out of the 224 head like 5 to 6 more mph . Side by side the 224 ports are bigger then the hemi
Yes Sir Shawn, the 224 head is a good one and a good solid starting point for a performance build. The ports look great right out of the box! The Hemi heads will flow better than the non-Hemi types with work, by design. But unless you're building some sort of firebreather competition engine for money racing only, it doesn't make a lot of economic sense to drop $800-$1200 on a fully race prepped Hemi head or billet when the non-Hemi head is a perfectly respectable foundation for power at half the cost. (Added info: This video was just to see if the 212 parts would still fit the new 224 Predator. The Hemi head installed likely reduced the engine HP)
So what are the advantage to the hemi engine? More power, higher RPM? I’m thinking it is just a marketing ploy. If more power how much power? Curious minds want to know!
Hi John. The hemispherical head design makes for a more direct route for the fuel/air mix to flow in and the exhaust gases to flow out. The valves are set at an angle that works much better with the ports to flow. The shape of the combustion chamber also causes a more even burn when the air/fuel mix is ignited. They do have less compression than the non hemi type heads but in some applications that's a good thing. For instance if you were planning to do a top fuel build for a Junior Dragster, you really wouldn't want to go much over 8:1 compression ratio as Nitro and Prope doesn't do well under a high compression combustion. The non-hemi type heads tend to have areas of hot spots in the combustion chamber, leading to various problems such as preignition, piston and head gasket failures. The Hemi head design will have fewer hot spots in the combustion chamber and fewer problems. The result is you can run more fuel mix thru the engine and make more power with less problem related failures. If you're just building a mild engine for kart or mini bike racing the non-hemi heads work great but if you're building an all out fire breather, and racing against another all out fire breather, the Hemi head design is the way to go. But you know, $$$$
Hey man did it have more Compression i am build ing one so i would like to know
This was just a quick swap to make sure the Hemi head could be installed on the 224 Non-Hemi engine. Since I left the dished piston installed and merely swapped the head to a Hemi type the compression would be lower than the stock Non-Hemi configuration.
I'm planning to do some upgrades on the 224 Hemi engine similar to the 212 Ducar Hemi engine build. In which I'll install a flat top piston and a longer billet connecting rod with a performance camshaft. The new upgraded version will make it a more compression friendly engine and increase the performance quite a bit. We may possible mill a few thousandths from the combustion chamber as well.. Stay Tuned!
Thank you
Would a stock 212 cam work in the 224? Plastic cam gear scares me a little bit but im not trying to get a fat cam for my stock rod
There are different camshaft journal diameters so you have to be careful. Here's a quick overview of what I've found: *The 224 Predator uses the same diameter camshaft as the 212 Hemi and the Honda engines, it is .549 (five hundred forty-nine thousandths inch) in diameter. The Predator 212 NON-HEMI engines use a larger diameter journal on their cams and it's around .559 (five hundred fifty-nine thousandths inch) So there's a .010 (Ten thousandths of an inch) difference.*
You really don't want to mix them up. Common sense will tell you the larger diameter camshaft will not physically fit into the cam journal bores of the block or side cover of the engine that uses the smaller .549 journal cam. The problems happen if you accidentally install the smaller cam into a block that's machined for the larger journals. Weird issues will happen for sure!
OK, all that stuff aside for the books. If you want to replace your plastic 224 camshaft with the steel version, you'll need to find a camshaft that fits either the Honda GX200 or a camshaft from a Predator HEMI engine. I think you can find a stock camshaft online for under $10, they're common.
I’m just wondering if you noticed any performance gains from putting the hemi head on the 224 I just bought the 224 for my yerf dog and I had taken the hemi 212 off of it and was wondering if I could make a little more power
Hi Austin! On the 224 head swap video we kept the original dished piston in the 224 so we actually lowered the compression ratio. Even though the hemi head will flow better, it has a larger combustion chamber so with the compression lost due to the dished piston we probably lowered the HP rating of the engine. Had we installed a decent flat top piston or milled the hemi head a few thousandths, there would have been an increase in HP and torque for sure. For the head swap video I was mainly checking to see if it would physically work on the 224 block to prepare for a full hemi performance build. A long billet rod with a flat top piston would be best to add to the hemi head swap engine to take advantage of the hemi head. I'm doing a performance hemi build in the Ducar 212 hemi videos. Part 3 will be up by next week as my final build parts have arrived. The 224 Hemi will definitely be revisited for a performance build as soon as I finish up a few of the other engine builds. Thanks!
Hey another question I was just rewatching this and I have done a flat top piston since my last comment but I was wondering if the cam out of the predator 212 hemi would would just like the head did? Thanks for the reply back !
I’m from eastern ky I just picked up my 224 from harbor freight I’m removing the govner now i don’t know what to do about the throttle linkage I can’t find no vids. Do you work on them for people??
Hi Brad! If you've removed the internal governor there are several options for the linkage and it depends on the carburetor you use. If you intend to use the stock carb, leave the external linkage in place and simply add a return spring so that the engine will return to idle when you're off the throttle.
The other method is used if you install an aftermarket carburetor like the VM-22 Mikuni clone. It bypasses all governor/throttle linkages and uses a twist throttle that connects directly to the carburetor air slide. In that case you can remove all external governor linkages and plug the hole in the block with a 1/4-20 bolt.
I'm retired so I don't work on other people's engines anymore, just my own. But you can do this. Look thru some of the engine build videos on the channel if you want to remove the governor, it'll walk you thru the process. Hang in there you can do it.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes thanks! I just took the gov completely out had to take fly wheel off and use a punch now I need to get 2 of them bolts for the holes. And I guess I’m going to throw on a mikuni I don’t like all the stock mess lol
@@BradFFA Hi Brad! These little engines can be addictive once you start working with them!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes is the 212cc and 224cc flywheels the same? I’m assuming mine is the non hemi 224cc
@@BradFFA Hi Brad! The 224cc Predator has a Honda clone taper. Some guys say you can use the 212cc Predator flywheels but I did notice a small bump on the taper that may not make for a perfect fit. I use the billet flywheels and sometimes the cast aluminum cheapies that fit the Honda clone taper on mine. The Honda clone taper flywheels lap in perfectly on the 224cc crankshaft, and that's the important part.
I heard u can use a hemi cam as well
That's true Bradley. Both share the Honda cam journal diameter of .550
Great video but you forgot to swap the piston
Hi Jordan, for this video I just wanted to see if there were any issues mounting the Hemi head onto the 224 Predator block. Nothing done to the internals on this one. I may do a 224 Hemi build later on with some better internals and a different piston. Thanks!
Did she know that you had it for her sister? 🤔 🤣
Now that's funny! I appreciate you!
When I bought my 212 hemi every box i looked at had a clone head in it.
I said "oh well I'll grab the one in the back then that no one has touched/dropped"
I must have somehow got the only hemi there that day.
They're still available for sure. All those rumors that the Hemi was discontinued are false for sure.
@@KentuckyFriedFixes I was thinking they just ran out, but ya know how people are.
"the man did it to mess with us" rofl
I know I am not the only one that looks for them so it makes sense, I got the last one that day thats it haha.
Hello great video I was wondering if I can put the 224 non hemi head back on the 212 hemi block I have done a couple of the 224cc predator hemi but haven't done reverse swap with the hemi block and the new 224 non hemi head I do know the bolts and the dowels fit together with the 224 head but you have been a reliable source for the building I do so I wanted to ask your thoughts and what you would be interested to share with me thank you very much for the help and advice always
You certainly can! Just use the non-hemi pushrods with the non-hemi head during the install. It's actually a great mod if you're using the hemi engine with the flat top piston. Great compression increase over the stock hemi head. The dowels are about the only issue that may come up on some engines. I'm sure you already know some engines have the larger dowels and some have the smaller. If you run into that issue it's super easy to drill the smaller dowels to the larger size. The dowels on the 224 and the 212 Hemi I swapped were both the larger type so super easy swap!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes thanks for your help as always
Thanks again so much for your help and support and I was able to use the 224cc non hemi head and the stock 224cc cam in one 212cc hemi block from the left over from 224cc predator hemi build so now I have been able to get a couple of good hemi block and non hemi head to run first pull both of them and the knowledge that you have been given to me has made it possible to have a good couple of extra engine for my project Thanks for your time and effort to help me out and I hope to see you in a new video soon ty friend
@@tacticalresources6895 I knew you'd get 'em lined out! I appreciate you my friend! New stuff coming out soon vacation is over, time to get back to it!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes great news I'm curious about the next video I stick manly to the short block engines in the projects I have but after I found the 224cc hemi head video I go straight to your videos and use them as a reference and you have a subscription from me from now on my mind was blown away by the hemi building you did that's how I found you and I am so glad that I have a good knowledge video of your kinds to help me out and I have to say I am very impressed by your help and communication with the comments on this post
I am gonna be dropping in the wild cat piston with a .020 longer rod that will leave me .010 in the hole as i am gonna be dropping a 212 non hemi head on the 224 as the chamber on the 212 looks smaller and i have the billet retainers and 26lb spring in my 212 head and 1.3 ratio rockers i really wanna cc my 224 head because i believe it to be smaller but i believe iv found it to be the same cc as the 212 head but with a better design and less valve shrouding with a .010 head gasket i should get some higher compression for more power
Hi Spencer. Make sure you check your piston height with a stock length rod. The EC rod I used in my block is 3.353" and I had .008 above deck with the Wildcat piston. I like the idea of the flat top down the hole just a bit and a thin gasket. That was my original plan for the 224 billet rod build.
And with the spark plugs i never had any issues with the LG plug even turned it up to 7k after 7k i swapped to a e3 plug noticed nothing different honestly i even swapped to " hot coil" and still really didnt feel anything but it did sound a tiny bit better but physically could not feel a difference...
@@KentuckyFriedFixes i am ordering up a couple rods and pistons as im shooting for a longer rod to lower the rod length to stroke ratio for a lower mean piston speed as i will be shooting for over 9000 rpms on a stroker crank that is gonna put alot of stress on the piston and block so if i can lower the ratio it will be easier on the piston and block im fallowing yamaha and f1 engines design elements to try and build in added reliability for going over 9000 rpms as i want ro make the 224 rev to the moon and if i can hit 10k or 11 im going for it the only parameters im sticking with is the bore and stroke my goal is to snap the crank into 2 with shear power alone and if it holds im gonna throw some nitrous at it as well but have you seen the new predator 459 that is gonna be a interesting one to build next as they have added a pressurized oiling system to the 459
@@madness_-yg3lw Sounds like you're putting together a runner!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes im sure gonna try lol once i get the engine built i will get a video of the parts and it running i am currently looking for a shop that has a small engine dyno to be able to confirm power numbers and can show the runs as i adjust the ignition timing tune on the carb but i believe iv found a way to have efi and electronically controlled ignition to really help take these small engines to another level and potential for power so if i can get that set up who knows what kinda power increase it would gain on a fully built engine
I have a 196 champion head wonder if I can switch it over to my 224 champion ?
I've not tried it but it should work. Champion has had the 224 and 225 for a good while now. I wish I had one to have a look inside. If you do a swap, just don't forget to check the dowel pin sizes, you may have to drill it out to the larger dowel at worst but other than that you should have no issues. You may have to also use the 196 champion pushrods if the length is different. Lots of guys using the early non-hemi small chamber heads too, but I think their valve sizes are a bit smaller. I've been wondering what the combustion chamber on the $49.95 179cc LCT engine head looks like.
Did u use the 212 hemi push rods for the 224 or stock 224 push rods
I used the Hemi push rods. They may be a bit shorter than they need to be. There was no noticeable movement on the lash adjusters either way from the stock setting. It's close enough to run fine without changing them out. If I get into a build on this one, cam change or rocker changes etc, I'll make sure it's not riding off center. Seems like everyone stays sold out of the cut to length push rods these days and those that have them want top $.
whats the power or torque differene between the hemi and non hemi
Hi Noah! The stock hemi vs the stock non-hemi is not a big difference in the torque. Though many of the kart racing guys did prefer the hemi engine over the non-hemi for box stock classes for different reasons. The HF 212 Hemi engines usually include a flat top piston but the larger cc head kinda negates that added bonus unless you change the head gasket. Plus the parts were Honda size stuff on the Hemis. The real difference is when you build them for performance, the Hemi valve design flows better for performance builds IMO. (Though the Hemi race builds usually end up being very high dollar engines when compared to the non-hemi builds, things like big valves, flycut pistons and welded heads are expensive) Lots more machine work goes into the head and piston for the Hemi because of the valve angle. Check out some of Paul's Hemi heads at his site "Paul's Karts". I've seen some of Paul's work and he absolutely knows what he's doing.
Any idea what the Piston to valve clearance is?
Hi John! I didn't measure the clearance between the piston and valves on this one as it has a dished piston in the 224 block. The 212 Predator hemi engines use a flat top piston so it will have more clearance than those. If you want to add a larger lift camshaft it'd be a good idea to check the piston to valve clearance but for this head swap, it used the stock camshaft in the 224 so it wasn't a crucial measurement. The Ducar 212 Hemi build uses a flat top piston and high lift cam so I ended up cutting some valve reliefs in that one.
Is there a CC difference between the two?
I was wondering the same thing
Hi Roger, the Hemi head has a larger combustion chamber than the non-hemi type. That's a big reason most of the kart guys don't like them. I'm thinking though that by replacing the 224 dished piston with a flat top and maybe a few other tricks, the cc size of the Hemi head won't be too much of an issue. Thanks!
@@dodge8802 Great minds!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes Great info Sir. Thank you.
@@rogerrose8220 Glad you're here Roger.
What would be the point of the swap.
Hi B.O.A.B.! At the time this video was made the 224cc Predator was a new engine introduced at Harbor Freight. The Predator 224cc engine was not available in the Hemi-head configuration. This video was just a quick swap to see if the Hemi head would work with the 224cc Predator and to make a 224 Predator Hemi headed engine (the first). For big HP engine builds I do prefer the Hemi head design, even though it costs considerably more to go that route. This video was mostly a bit of fun.
How do you get rid of the charcoal emissions
Hi Hunter, if you're outside California, just remove the fuel tank vent line from the charcoal canister. The canister is held on the lower shield with one 8mm headed bolt. If you're inside California, just disregard that info as we're all law abiding citizens of course....
Why struggle during disassembly especially when you're trying to make the video? Purchase an impact will make your life easy and your hands will thank you in the future
Hi CB! I did purchase a 1/4 drive impact for disassembly on later videos. It's much better!
@@KentuckyFriedFixes glad to hear that sir, you're too talented to sit there and take valuable instructional time twisting things, hahaha love your work and your commentary ...subscribed
CB you're too kind! Glad to have you on the channel! Thanks!
They did build one. I have one lol
I got one in paintsville 2 weeks ago
@@WETTKITTY Thank you! Another subscriber just told me a few days ago he picked one up in Florida. I'd love to see a video on one to see if it's the same Ducar engine with the hemi head or a completely different engine.
what part of ky you from I'm from London area
Hi Dodge, I'm over close to the middle around the Mammoth Cave area.
Boyle county boy right here
@@thatbuelldude189 If we can get enough KY guys together we could start a club or something. LOL
@@KentuckyFriedFixes that would be cool
I'm an American
Welcome!
I have a Tillotson 212 engine and I removed the governor
domed head, dished piston, can't be much compression . . . . .
You're right Dave, the compression is lower with that combo. For this video I just wanted to check if the Hemi head could be fitted to the 224 block or not. I'll likely replace the dished piston with one I've been working on that may work a bit better if this content interests enough Guys. Thanks 25:32