0:01: ⚔ Soldier 1st Class discusses his channel journey and involvement in Final Fantasy 7 remake hype. 14:36: ⚔ Mixed feelings towards Final Fantasy VII Crisis Core, appreciating some aspects but not all. 29:10: 🎭 Highly praised scene in the game with Rufus making a deal on stage, showcasing drama and music. 43:27: ⚔ Barrett's internal conflict during the emotional fight scene with Dy in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. 57:49: 🎮 Praising Chadley as the best new character, the Proto Relic quest provides good lore in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. 1:11:31: 🧩 Engaging mechanic using robes in temple puzzles, but maze section felt dragged out. 1:25:24: 🌈 Interpretation of events in the game leads to varied perspectives on fate alteration. 1:39:05: ⚔ Interpretation of the Black and White Whispers' actions leading to a pivotal moment in the storyline. 1:52:52: 🎮 Positive review of the game's psychological aspects and open-ended conclusion. 2:06:03: ⚔ Mixed feelings towards the remake, acknowledging personal taste differences but hoping for creative freedom and authenticity in the production. 2:20:36: ⚔ Discussion on the potential impact of Multiverse in Final Fantasy VII Remake and the influence of writers on the storyline. 2:34:30: ⚔ Discussion on the impact of Mass Effect Anthology additions and risks on the series as a whole. 2:48:13: ⭐ High praise for Final Fantasy VII Remake despite scoring challenges and negative biases, with extra credit used to elevate the rating. 3:01:43: ⚔ Complex ties between characters and factions in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth raise questions about narrative impact. 3:16:02: ⚔ Critique of violence against women in the game, uncertainty about character development, comparison to previous portrayal. Recap by Tammy AI
New comment after being finally able to see the whole video. I loved your interactions, your respectful dialogue and I am so happy to see two people I really respect and appreciate confront their ideas. This is the healthy environment I like to see, and I am sure lots of people do feel the same as me. Unfortunately some people on the internet tend to be very vocal and aggressive, but not everyone is like that. I am so happy that Soldier gave the game a new try and is back producing the videos we missed so much. And thanks BBseal, you are the best in this community. I think people do not say this enough, you are such a kind person that is impossible not to gravitate towards you. Thanks so much again and I hope to catch streams soon again!
I will listen to the entire chat during a flight tomorrow but I could not resist to already comment how happy I am to see BBS and Soldier together on the screen. I’m sure this discussion will be super nice not only for the content but also for the way of interacting. This is a great start after finishing the game!
@soldier1stClass You killed it with your take on the whispers. I to clicked with the exact same idea. And I couldn’t believe no one was talking about it. It’s all about saving cloud and breaking cloud. And with the white whispers guiding Tifa in the life stream in chapter 9. I thought more would pick up on it. But you nailed it.
I’m right at the beginning of this video, but I watched everything happen when it happened and was really bummed out about how people can act in the fandom. I’m happy to see soldier back and it was one of the reasons why I wanted to give a try at this. Also this is what I meant by jumping head first into chaos, because sometimes this is that, chaos.
It was really rewarding to me that I memorized that safe code 20 years ago. I then proceeded to guess without looking around it would be same. I was right.
My problem with a lot of the community that doesn’t like the remake series is the way they go about crapping on the games and saying their trash like it’s gospel or fact. Both sides like to feed into toxic memes or pointing and laughing with their opinion
Y’all helped keep me sane during my night shift with this conversation! I don’t really have any irl friends who have played the remake series so I love listening to different perspectives and theories on what’s happening and what might happen in the future. Thanks for the video!
I enjoyed this discussion a lot. I'm glad I got to watch this and after hearing your opinions along with others, opened my eyes to the ending and how I viewed them
This discussion was objectively good and gave me a alot to think about after I just finished. Heres hoping to more ❤. Also i dont know if the music was intentional. But i was lowkey dying cause of juxtaposition of the world of despair theme playing from Zacks interlude whenever you guys were talking about your fears for part 3 and then moments later the Kalm escape theme plays when you guys tried to search for the silver lining 😂
Just want to say. I really was feeling hollow for days after the ending. I keep questioning why they make the story so complicated why at the end of the game it became this ending but reliving the process before the ending was phenomenally fantastic.I am a 3d modeler and in a game industry and I started art from loving FF7. With this ending i was so so worried how they gonna land it in part 3 and if it does not land i feel sad. I just didnt know what to feel. But after watching this podcast and all the "possiblity" or the devs intension to actually make that ending, it gave me some kind of closure. Thank you so much. Thank you so so so much. It means so much
About the void that Aerith’s fate left with a player: I think it’s kinda incredible. How uncomfortable void leaves you. Because to me, the entirety of it reads as Cloud >not being able to dealhollow< scene. I could go batshit crazy drawing a graph of why that makes sense with Cloud’s story and psychological journey that then goes over later into advent children that I cannot possibly fit into a little comment, but hey. Just thinking about the cool unsatisfying moment makes me wonder >why< and all the >why
Hi dear ShrodingerBBS. First i want to say that once again, it is a pleasure to watch your content ,their 's always a purpose in what you do, you'r not just farming the sh*t out of it just for clicks and views , you instead always propose a real conversation, with other fans and for the fans! kudos to you my dude. Now for my two cent,. Around the 1.24 time mark in the video, Soldier First class say that he feel " that the game fail ,sometimes , to properly convey it's meaning and concept in the way that it should." Yeah ? Now i don't know if it worth a lot but , i'm French and i just did a rerun of the game but this time with Japanese voice and French Sub...and boy oh boys the differences ! Now as far as i know japanese ,which is very little, i do know for sure that it way easier to translate/convey meaning from Jap, to French that is is from Jap to English. But my men ! Let me tell you that the character are not the same ! they are many, many subtle change that , added on top of one another throughout the game, end up giving you a very different vibe and mood for the characters than how they are portrayed in the ENG localization..annnd their is the NOT so subtle change , a lot of them in fact , that made me question how much liberty a Localization team should be allowed to take ...i wont give you any exemple , cuz you'r a busy man and this comment is already too long , but sometime it's feel like the local' team goes on "Full Freestyle mod" ..especially during the last chapter. It could be that the French localisation is the one taking liberty , but believe you me! we know how to translate and convey Japanese ! We are the second most consomateur of manga in the world after all. (i'm not starting a Sub war btw , i'm just a big fan with a very keen interest in all the subtleties of FF7 and my favorites Roster Ever).Anyway , it could be interesting i guess, to take a look at the game trough other Sub than Eng , French or otherwise , it was a cool, yet strange experience for me and did deepened my understanding and appreciation of the game . Bonne chance pour ta chaine mon amis, bientôt pour les 5k subs !
The way he describes how he felt he "should" feel about Barrett at around 42:45 totally would not fit with the depiction of Barret we have gotten up to this point in the Remake games. Absolutely nobody would have believed that after how great of a character/man Barret has been shown to be over the last game and a half that he all of a sudden "lost it" and just started shooting up random civilians; that would have been a full on yoga stretch. It made more sense in the original when you didnt have as good of a sense of Barret's personality & morality due to it being all in text so you could have the moment of not being sure, but here it would've just been the very tired "Did the hero really do this horrible thing he obviously didn't do? Tune in next week to find out!" trope
2:31:12 yes! Baby seal remember I was doing the mass effect comparison too. I’m not as mad anymore about the ending of rebirth, but I definitely don’t want another game where 90% of the game is the same until the last chapter. We CANT have remake, rebirth, and repeat! It’s time to pay off alot of story beats
This was a great discussion, but I really could have done without all the introspective drama at the beginning. It's not very good for hooking newcomers (myself among them). There are toxic elements in the FF7 fandom, and the worst thing we can do is give them more oxygen. For those interested, the on-topic discussion gets started at about the 28:00 mark.
Thank you. And I totally agree. I hate when people feel the need to go at length about how the fandom they inhabit is the worst. Everyone says that about their fandom and we all know it's not unique.
It's good to see Soldier1stClass back and returning to the conversation. I've been looking forward to everyone talking about FFVII again. Thank Christ for Rebirth.
1:59:00 I gotta say this breakdown really changed the way I thought about the ending, I was ok with it at first but I think the devs have really been trying so hard on this journey not to remake the. Game but remake the FEELINGS the players had for the game and doing the same thing as the og won’t equal the same feeling.that original death came from out of nowhere and I think he said it best you don’t know how to feel you just feel empty. If you do the full death scene you don’t get that you get that feeling of gee they did a great job with that or satisfaction of it being what you expected, if they have it so you save her straight up you obviously don’t get that feeling either, they couldn’t replicate the feeling of shock and hollowness by giving you the death and water burial but by DENYING you think scene they were able to remake the feelings you had. I think that’s why the change the first time you get to explore the open world to after kalm with the cinematic opening of the doors rather than right from midgar, in the original it was a wtf moment of wow this game is bigger than I imagined but than you walk over to kalm and go to a flashback, delaying it to post flashback and kalm u get that feeling of awe again. I think so much of the changes that they make to the story are as much about how do we get you to replicate the natural reaction you felt the first time playing this game nearly 30 years ago
I think one of the most important symbols that hasn’t been talked about is when aerith is lying dead on the ground sephiroth says now begins the confluence of worlds which is an interesting adjective to break down & when you look at her body she is in the centre of spiralling out around her are tiles that really resemble timelines splitting apart. Maybe that moment is a singularity that ultimately causes these splitting of worlds. I kinda wonder, we see Zack is back in the same universe but we don’t see WHEN he is in the timeline maybe it ends up being his job to get to the forgotten capital and sacrifice himself saving aerith. And closing the time/world splitting
So before watching this stream, I was very on board with Max's running ideas of there being an, as he put them, Omni Aerith and Sephiroth that have traveled back in time from OG/AC events and are now exerting their influence on the repeat of the time line, both trying to change the original events to their benefit. But with Baby Seals explanation, I've landed somewhere in between. Taking some from column A and B. I'm still mostly with the Max ideas, but to be clear, I'm not a Max Stan, its just that his ideas more closely match my own idea of how I'd like things to play out, but also cause I think its much more fun. :) Firstly, though it might be a minor difference in terminology. I don't think the actual FF7 shards/worlds are multi-verse, but actually just timeline branches. (different from actual multi-verse of Gilgamesh going to screw with FF14 WoL) In which, when one person jumps from one to another, are replacing the originals of that timeline when Sephiroth or Aerith shove themselves or someone else into them. This is why when Cloud and Aerith are shunted into the date timeline they are wearing their main timeline clothes. Aerith's are basically the same, but Coma Cloud was in Zack double pauldron soldier armor, but when they jump in from the fall due to Omni Aerith saving them, his clothing swaps to Old bolted single pauldron armor. I think a lot of these timelines were spawned by the end of Remake, the breaking/corrupting of the Arbiter of Fate causing the major splinter that birthed all these majorly divergent timelines. This was to both Omni Aerith and Omni Sephiroth benefit as it changed major events just enough that gives them both wiggle room to try and affect the "canon" outcome of the whole story. I support the Omni Aerith theory mostly because of the events of Remake, with her just knowing too much about whats going on as the game goes on. She pokes Red he instantly trusts the entire group, and gets Marlene to trust her immediately the same way. Seemingly giving them knowledge of their history together, that hasn't actually happened yet. Also when she first meets Tifa and acts like its been a while, when at that point, they shouldn't know each other at all. The major deviation I've taken that I'm now on board with Seal is the idea that Rainbows don't in fact indicate Timelines or alternate worlds being created. but are in fact visual representations of Aeriths influence on events from Omni Aerith/the lifestream. Or potentially the form of Hope Lifestream. Sephiroths Purple Tentacles being Despair Lifestream. Each time she's directly doing something from the ether, it has the rainbow effect. Like the rainbow portal she shoves Zack into, or when she walks out to beat Sephiroth's ass, she's literally created rainbow ripples with each footstep. Its the power of Hope, wielded by Aerith to affect events. The Rainbow bubble Cloud finds himself in when Aerith gets omega shanked is literally Aerith softening the blow of her death. Trying to pull him back from the brink. She knows she needs to die, and while cloud might be worse off in the short term, when reality really sets in. She's seen this movie before, she knows how it ends, and, to use the gamer terms, its the good ending, but not the True Ending. THAT will require something...more. I think clouds in for a much bigger fall into madness, but will culminate with a much higher rise to the occasion when he gets his head screwed back on. So I think with how rebirth played out there are 3 Aeriths we saw: Omni Aerith, who showed up in the sleeping forest to get the white matera, on the date, "I'm dead, its ok" in clouds arms, and to whoop Sephiroth's ass. Living Aerith, the one we actually played the game, what remained of the living Aerith after Omni stopped the possession at the end of Remake(or was possibly forced out by Sephiroth or the result of blowing the white matera as Baby Seal thinks), and Psychosis Aerith, the force ghost that is a figment of Clouds Shattered mind that shows up at the pool and onwards, which is probably going to be leveraged by Sephiroth to break cloud. Wall of text crits for 10k Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk to all 3 people who'll actually read this nonsense. WAIT. I just had a terrible idea that bounces off of Max's Cloud Empty Materia theory. What if cloud wields a third form of Lifestream? think Zelda Triforce BS. Sephiroth wields Destruction(Power) Lifestream created during Remake with black tentacle lifestream represented by the Black Materia. Aerith wields Hope(Wisdom) Lifestream created and used during Rebirth as Rainbows represented by the White Materia. Cloud will wield Courage lifestream(visual unknown) which will be represented by whatever the Empty Materia becomes(gold, orange?), in all likelihood seen when cloud starts his hero arc?
@@RyanOstrowski-eh6ft Their not changing it. It’s gonna happen. They might add to it and make it more drawn out. My prediction is sephiroth will try to stop it from happening. It’s why he tryed to get cloud to off her in ch 9. But it will still happen. The creators have said it’s one of the most important parts of the og. Rest easy it will be there.
@@RyanOstrowski-eh6ft honestly I’m not sure on that part. But 3 ideas. 1 is that she’s some how connected with cloud in some way from coming in direct contact from the life stream in chapter 9 and she can see pieces of what clouds sees now. Or 2 it was aeriths white whispers showing her what clouds seeing. And all for her to some what understand what clouds going threw in that moment. To keep her on the path of still saving him later. Or 3 it’s some timeline stuff and she can see a version of where cloud saved her and where he didn’t. I think option 2 is the most likely and makes the most sense. Considering aeriths white whispers and the weapon saved her in chapter 9.
I haven't really seen anyone talk about the intergrade ending scene with Zack opening the church doors in relation to what happens with Zack in this game. On a separate note I wonder if he is hopping between these fractured lifestream memory worlds. I don't know why, but when I got to the scene of Zack sitting on the steps trying to decide on who to save I got the feeling he had experienced or was aware of what happened when he went to Shinra or Biggs.
My hunch is that it was cut from the game completely. They probably wanted to have it in the final game then decided to leave it out. If you're curious where I would've featured it... It would've been at the start of the game. Zack leaves Cloud with that Kyrie(?) girl. Runs off the church to check in on where he thinks Aerith is; Opens the church door... Sees mourning folks.. then says "Aerith?" Because he is confused she's not there. He then backs out of the church.. hears folks in the streets mentioning a news broadcast. Zack then decides to seek out the news coverage and the game continues as normal.
@@ourfamilyaccount that makes a lot of sense, only thing is his face is clean in that scene but dirty in game until after getting Aerith. But if they had included it in the way you say they could have just had him clean from that point on I guess.
@@Duckywallpaper I forgot about his clean face. Good observation. Yeah maybe they could've included a moment where he takes out a cloth from his back pocket and cleans himself before heading to the church. I'm sad it wasn't in the final game but that's truly my best guess of where it would've been placed.
It's very clear that Aerith is "alive", be it in one form or another. The Rainbow Light represents the traversal of the "Dream-like Worlds" though it is further distinguished by the colors White or Black, a nod to LS White and LS Black. When Cloud blocks Sephiroth's strike, surrounded by the White and Rainbow colored lights, this indicates a new world's been created where she survived the moment of her death. While she did physically die as witnessed by the rest of the party, Cloud is simultaneously able to view both of them, the world she died in, and the one she didn't, hence the glitching back and forth between the two. Aerith, when entering the Edge of Creation enters through the Rainbow White portal, signalling that she has come FROM the world she survived in, to help Cloud fight against him, thanking him for saving her in the process. When she disappears while holding Cloud's hand, she's physically returning back to the world she survived in through the Lifestream and even though she is now physically gone, Cloud can still see her, like how he does at the end of the game. This is likely what the "It's like a second home" line refers to. From what I've seen, it seems like most all of us agree that she will be present in Part 3, and I am willing to bet that during the Reunion in which "Worlds Collide", both her and Zack will be there to battle Safer Sephiroth alongside the rest of the party. As to whether or not both of them live, both of them die, or one lives or the other, whose to say for sure...
I came to similar conclusions after thinking about the ending for a few days. It's also useful to take grander look at the remake saga now that we some amounts of new info and question what the purpose for the multiverse plot actually is. I think it's pretty simple, they want to give FF7 a proper send off by finally giving Aerith and Zack their happy ending. Why else would they in some capacity first save Zack in Remake and now Aerith in Rebirth? So that they could either live happily ever after in either the main party timeline after the reunion of worlds or live together in a separate one after the battle with sephiroth is won. I would be very surprised if the things I said didn't happen, but I do admit that they are still just theories. I am optimistic about how they handle the conclusion of this trilogy since so much of Remake and Rebirth are excelently written and the endings are both intentionally confusing for a reason. Can't wait for part 3.
@@tumei1851 Yes exactly this. The handling of the characters has been so well done, fleshing them out in deeper ways than they ever have before. To bring Zack back, only as fan service for things like the end of Rebirth I believe would be a waste. There have been hints as far back as Remake that Aerith and Zack have had a connection with one another, from sensing each other as they walked by in Remake, to Aerith feeling his hand in the Gi River in Rebirth. They'll undoubtedly reunite in Part 3. The Zerith in me wants them to have a happy ending together, but even them just interacting would be something else... Who would've thought that they might actually see each other again after the events of Crisis Core? Just that thought is so exciting and terrifying at the same time. The idea of them joining forces to battle Safer Sephrioth along side the main party in the all out climactic battle would be so great to see, regardless of whether they survived or not...and if it does turn out that one of them dies, I would be okay with that as well. Should Zack live and Aerith die, so be it. Let the two of them mirror the core theme of FF7: Life and Death. Let their reunion happen, then break our hearts all over again. It's been a great ride just to have these characters back.
@@CloudAtreides I think SE would rather go with a neutral happy ending here or maybe with optional endings. The Clerith community in Japan is still huge. I can't imagine them taking a stance in the shipping debate. The backclash and the economical damage wouldn't be worth it even if the writers would prefer this easy conclusion of the story.
@schrodingersbabyseal im new to your channel and I saw you on Princes vid and really liked you and your thoughts and approach. Even more so after watching this video. You have a new fan and im excited to be part of your community and hopefully making new friends.
I think the mechanics of the game, the overall narrative, the music, are all well done and clearly are very refined. I think the issue comes down to is it a well-crafted story that fits well into the overarching story of the FF7 universe? And that's where I'd say not very much. For me, the problem has been in the execution of it all. The desperate NEED for the devs to try and keep players guessing and talking has resulted in this very bad multi-world plotline. And although I don't think it doesn't make sense in the lore of the world, since it is not time-travel or a true multiverse, the way that it has been presented has just been very poorly done. We only get a bulk description of it from Sephiroth who reveals that the worlds are basically off-shoots contained within the Lifestream and it's many memories and spirits. All this side bullshit is a result of Nomura somehow being convinced that the fans would have found a straight retelling of the original story to have been boring, boring, boring, which I cannot understand at all.
When first seeing it I was pretty frustrated by it but I'm slowly coming around to how it was done and how Cloud's character seems to be going forward. I'm intrigued.
Great conversation, guys! If we get a Vincent DLC, they should focus and flesh out his backstory also shown in Dirge of Cerberus. Maybe we'll even learn of the Protomateria earlier on too.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Mideel is located in the Banora region. So I think we definitely get Banora (given the compilation nature of the Re trilogy), but maybe they end up combining Mideel into Banora.
Least favorites for me: 1) Controlling Cait Sith to figure out how to escape Nibelheim's Manor's undergrounds: although obstacles not hard to solve, still too long of a session that requires to use bad control of throwing boxes. 2) The left behind Avalanche HQ team's mini game that assigns robots to fight monsters like portion of Fort Condor, but confusing management. 3) Chadley talks and informs too much; better to lessen Intel quests so players can discover mysteries themselves.
how rebirth transfer over to real life is amazing! first it was the emptiness we felt was as close to grief as we could get. and how the whispers were most on the side of seph at the beginning of game but at the end of game Aerith set things right again like most people feel the game is back on the right track now. but just like seph in the game, devs message no promises to keep and things in real world. its a sense that things is not over. i never seen a game move people the way rebirth does Rebirth now gets a 14.5 out of 10 for me with how it moves the fan base outside of the game.
Nice Discussion it’s nice to see Soldier1stClass to have back 😊. My favourite Chapters where the Gold Saucer and Costa de Soul i loved that special the Dio X Corneo stuff xD.
I definitely would have liked a 1-1.. Rebirth was amazing… it’s definitely different.. and a new vision but you can tell they care that’s all I ask for!!! The story changes are a bit Over the top but This game is also almost 30 years old if people think nothing would change that’s kinda disingenuous… but the internet a weird place..
I think we’re 100% going to be able to revisit every single area plus all the new ones. It’s the final game and to even just pad it out they’re gonna have to let every area he re-vistisble for the sake of one padding the game out more, two getting resolutions and three to get the perspective of every town as meteor is falling. This if anything is the final send off for FF7 every single thing that happened in the original will be here easily
I predict Part 3 ends with the ultimate deus ex machina: Chadley challenging and defeating Sephiroth to a game of Queen’s Blood, thus destroying him in every universe
5 stages of grieving. DABDA Denial Anger Bargaining Depression Acceptance. Cloud, and us players, are left on the first phase. Not to mention Aerith is doing her best to shield her since from facing it in the moment since Sephiroth has already tortured his mind to where dealing with it would break him at that moment when there was a fight to be had. Also when they were looking at the water where Aerith was laid to rest, Cloud gets a Jenova headache in green but when her death part comes it turns to a pink(?) hue for a second, which could mean that it was being repressed. And when Aerith appears, the music was very similar to Jenova’s. And everyone was grieving and Tifa was just done and doesn’t even talk to Cloud about this. At the end of the day, it will only be after the story is finished where we can judge it as a whole. And even then, it will be years of people talking about it. Just like the OG.
Im probably the only one that liked the Soldier Creed moment though I will say it was weird cause I don't know what they will do in part 3 to top that unless everyone does the creed or something
I loved all of Temple of The Ancients but I will preface this by saying I had to take breaks because of my nephews but even then I still felt like I FLEW through it and wanted more as it was one of my favorite level designs in the game. Reminded me of Pitios. I guess I got lucky and chose the right directions my first time.
I think after Rebirth's conclusion audience members, and particularly OG fans, ultimately have to accept that the devs are recreating memorable moments as "vibes" in the ReProject versus direct one to one imagery as a potential core creative direction. Whether they can payoff that creative direction in a generally satisfying manner to enter the zeitgeist of immersive meta storytelling is a heavy load part 3 has to carry now. But I think anyone has to at least admit that the drama and emotions the endings of both Remake and Rebirth have produced among the zeitgeist at the moment are eerily similar to OG's end of Midgar with mystery and Aerith's scene of closure stolen were directed to produce in players, so I figure that's enough to see where this wild meta train is confidently barreling towards. Also... How creep is that Rebirth ending though? Just the vibe that Jenova has managed to invade the psyche of this family of characters to truly challenge their convictions to save The Planet above all other life.
My issue with the end is that I expected either they yhrow the curve all where we save her, and then it becomes another "what does Zack being alive mean?" scenario with the whole fanbase, or I *finally* get to feel the loss other people have. Barret and Aerith were two characters I never really resonated with on OG's release, and with these characters able to express so much more emotion and personality via better graphics and full voice acting, I really grew to like these characters in ways that I haven't over the 20 plus years at the games existed. I finally had a reason to be crushed by erithyne, but that was taken from me. I guess the meta aspect is there but that's what I was waiting the entire game for That's what I've been waiting for years for and it just wasn't there. Deaths in real life don't really move me so, I was looking forward to being moved by this one.
Firm believer that Sephiroths endgame was to get rid of Holy/ Aerith since it poses the biggest threat to his plan. However by the creation of another world will now be his undoing since Aerith managed to get an active Holy into the current world. Was the clear materia the Holy that was used at end of OG is the biggest question noone is touching. Hence Aerith we know in Re trilogy is one who has knowledge of the future or is an Aerith from post OG.
Mannnn I thought of this fan fiction for Cid the other day.. Something that has always bothered me about Cid, is how he feels like the only party member who’s affinity for combat has never really been contextualized. The idea was that, Cid’s father was once President Shinra’s right-hand man. He had three children, two boys and a girl. Cid, Kain and Aranea.. who he instilled in each of them a love for flight, and trained them as specialized fighters under the funding of “Project: Dragoon”. Cid’s father architected specialized single-person flight machines that only his children were permitted to use, and only the knew the science to construct. One day, Cid’s father was mysteriously murdered, and the Highwind family, the dragoons, were left on the beck and call of President Shinra. Cid had the brains of his father, he was a capable dragoon in his own right, but his younger brother Kain was the one truly gifted with fighting prowess and talent. While Aranea, some years younger than the other two.. was sheltered as the baby girl from actually going on missions. One day, Pres Shinra mandated Cid and Kain fly a dangerous mission, and said that afterward they could enjoy their retirement, as they would no longer be needed as the SOLDIER program had gained real traction so funding would be reallocated to R&D. Cid, angry and disgruntled, refuses to fly the mission and says that from then on.. consider him an “engineer” but no more, Kain flies the mission solo and never returns. So I really wanted Cid to have a “grizzled veteran” persona in Rebirth.. to see if they wouldn’t go a route like that, and the “dragoon class” from TFS was what inspired the dragoon-technical “wings”. It would’ve paid an homage to Kain from IV, and Aranea who ended up getting super screwed in XV. She would’ve been the spiteful younger sister who grew up training internally at Shinra, angry at Cid for leaving Kain to fly solo. And Kain could resurface in some kind of “winter soldier” type of story.
If they did make it so that either Zack or Aerith lived, I think Zack would be the safer of the two options. Especially since Cissnei and his parents are still waiting for him and that would be a touching moment to see him return to them.
I felt the Seto scene was rushed and it didnt give me the emotional feeling OG did. Same with Aeriths infamous scene. Dying to see some Knights of the round lore in a flashback with Cetra fighting against Jenova.
I agree with you on the Seto scene since it was actually TRYING to be a faithful adaptation of the original scene. As for Aerith’s infamous death scene, the game clearly wasn’t trying to faithfully adapt that scene. I feel that the “emotional crux” of the scene isn’t meant to be Aerith’s death anymore, the emotional crux was meant to be the moment you realize that Cloud CANNOT relate to and mourn with his friends anymore. When Tifa is mourning Aerith’s death, she slowly gets up and looks at Cloud with a sad look, just for her to be met with a SMILE from Cloud, and THAT is the real tragedy here. Since Cloud believes Aerith is alive, there’s a very tragic wedge that has been placed between Cloud and the group. Nobody can relate to Cloud anymore. And as we’ve seen, this WILL and already HAS caused conflict and mixed emotions. I actually think that this turn of events is way more emotional than the original. At least Cloud was able to go mourn with his friends in the original, now there’s a giant disconnect that is involved which makes things more interesting and emotional for me.
@@KingdomKeyJT precisely for this reason it fails, it stops being about her and becomes about him, it stops being a tragedy and the ephemeral nature of life and becomes a multiversal mystery, which is constructed to be intentionally confusing, vague and meaningless. They abandoned the emotional power of Aerith's death for theorycrafting.
@@gian2412 how was it all for the sake of “multiversal theory crafting” if it quite literally sets up for and creates emotional moments that add onto the themes of the story? As a scene, I believe it serves the EXACT same purpose as Aerith’s death in the og (to set up for emotional moments that add onto the themes of the story). Just because the focus isn’t on Aerith’s death anymore, it doesn’t mean that the scene doesn’t serve the same purpose. It’s not just multiversal stuff for the sake of it 💀. Your take makes literally no sense to me so I completely don’t agree with it.
I honestly feel like Aerith has to come back / be alive in some capacity at this point because I haven't seen a single person satisfied with her death scene, especially without seeing her burial. So why keep her dead? From a story telling perspective it seems better for Square to take a risk and commit to keeping her alive.
Honestly the ending was good. People just really wanted it to be more conclusive than it was EVER meant to be in the new trilogy. The fact you're comparing it to a seminal game, unconsciously, shows exactly that. A lot of people decrying that it doesn't have the same emotional hit treat the developers like they haven't had multiple interviews on this EXACT topic prior to launch, saying they've found that doing the same thing doesn't have the same weight. (The OG devs) I guarantee you they've done interest group testing and found this shit out. From a directing standpoint, a lot of what they did here at the end makes sense, and I was VERY confused after I finished the game and saw people upset and saw people upset with the ending. A commonality I've found in many of these repeated discussions is people being unable to recognize that they made the ending confusing and offputting for a reason. It's brought up MULTIPLE times by Sephiroth that Cloud is incapable of parsing through his emotions in line with the original. We, as players, are meant to feel the same sort of feelings that Cloud does at each moment. Confusion. This should, ultimately, be cleared up in part 3. That's its PURPOSE. To set up the means to give Cloud his purpose... not to be the thing that gives him it. Not to be a moment of solemnity and clarity. That's TIFAS purpose later. After back and forth's with people, I've come to the conlusions that it really feels like the same people upset after the first game took a turn are the same people upset with this, simply because it's not a remaster. They could have played safer and not gotten these headlines... but would that have really made a good setup? I would wager not. Regardless, at this point, I'm past caring about the IGN munchers.
I think you're on to something when you say that "feeling like Cloud" in the ending might have been what the developers where going for. Cause they already did that masterfully at the end of Remake. "Boundless terrifying freedom" You were right there with the party fearing what this uncertain future might bring. It wasn't a pleasant feeling necessarily but very well executed. And I can see them doing that again here. Sacrificing a "pleasant" experience for one that puts you right in the shoes of the characters.
@@Soldier1stClass he says ''expectations often lead to disappointment'', many of the things you mentioned that you didn't like about remake and rebirth occurred because you generated expectations and they weren't met, which is perfectly understandable since the subject is about a ''remade'' work, but the games itself in several moments from the beginning showed that it would not necessarily follow the same steps as the original source, I really liked your conversation with babyseal btw and your new vision on the project
I think the white whispers are more planet than Aerith. After Aerith dies she'll have more influence on them. But I don't think Aerith is the one trying to keep you away from the altar per se. If you listen to her prayer, I think it's pretty telling.
Loved the ending and babyseal describes it perfectly... soldiers take on the ending and going through it/experience is what makes the ending so perfect. Hats off to the devs to capturing those emotions because holy hell I didn't think it was possible! Can't wait for part 3 because it's gonna hit like a brick.
Is it odd I like Final Fantasy VII lore yet I just become less and less in tune with any time travel/multi verse plot? It was all a blur. Otherwise an enjoyable experience story wise.
Me too. The moment you introduce multiple timelines/universes, all weight these characters had in the story is immediately thrown out the window for me. But gameplay wise it was a good game.
Just started chapter 9 and so far: Take all the Zach stuff out of it, it might be my favourite game ever (minus the OG) However I feel like they butchered the gold saucer and battle arena. I said it back when remake was out that having the corneo coliseum completely diluted the battle arena in gold saucer. On top of that you have another battle arena in corel prison. Blew their load way too early. If I remember rightly the battle arena in the OG was more involved in the main story? It wasnt at all here. No different mechanics or big cutscenes (like corneos coliseum had). Dynes shooting had no weight to it (no blood, no mass evacuation, hardly any bodies or people panicking all over the place). I absolutely loved the Ghost house and Cait Sith role in gold saucer (in Rebirth) however. Midgar zolom after fight was so weird - as Soldier 1st class nailed it, its so odd no one makes comments that Cloud or something killed the zolom in that way (and the whole monsters in the mine despite literally killing the embodiment of fate). And there are many moments like this that frustrates me.
Nobody in the party addressing what is going on, Aerith being crypic, and Tifa gaslighting Cloud for 2 whole games hits a lot different when characters are fully voiced over and we can see their reactions better. It gets frustrating to say the least.
I think you guys are probably right about the ending, and I hate that story choice. Cloud ends rebirth more deranged than I've ever seen him (that's fine but I hope he's going for a swim almost immediately next game). He's the puppet Sephiroth says he is and Aerith isn't trying to cut the strings, she's battling for control of them. I work in mental health. Grief is so important to healing and "pretend it didn't happen" is just an incredibly destructive thing. The more unstable you are, the less capable you are of dragging that burden out. Aerith is too kind, to smart, too emotionally intelligent to do that, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't write her doing it and kind of botching the whole plot point for me. I think it works much better if Cloud himself is behind the delusion. He did it before with Zack. Cloud would absolutely tell himself everything is fine, SOLDIER on. Aerith needs to be a force dragging him back to himself. To grieve like a human. That he's strong enough to overcome that. He's not just an empty puppet, there's a real person in there that's good enough, and it's going to be ok. How does all of this jive with all the other details? Why does Cloud seem to have Aerith's abilities to see force ghosts and the mark of doom in the sky that's been haunting her? I don't know. I think there's a good chance that none of the details can fit together yet. That nothing has been written, hence nothing is legible. It could all just anime BS. I think the only thing that actually matters is that Sephiroth is harvesting despair from whatever these doomed worlds or dreams or whatever they are(probably doesn't matter). Aerith finds refuge in a world that doesn't fall into despair. This is probably going to be the nature of their battle for the soul of the planet, because that probably determines that nature of Holy.
A really interesting theme I'm seeing with feedback since I broke my social media blackout is how people are ignoring the meta-narrative remake seems to be establishing. Like the idea of does Aerith live/die, is she alive/dead, is Zack alive/dead, will Zack live/die are largely irrelevant and not the crux of what FF7 is or the story the development team is seemingly trying to tell. We will be once again relying on lore crafting to really break down what's going on for people to think about because so many of the takes seems VERY base. Love having a seal team 7 video to break my media blackout. Looking forward to the rest of your god-tier uploads Clark.
Game was good but I was hoping for another outcome for Aerith. I kinda can't imagine playing another 100 hours of part 3 without her in the team. I was hyped for Rebirth but not really looking forward to part 3 tbh.
How would you feel if the theme of anti-capitalism was treated similarly to the theme of Aerith's death? In that both death and capitalism are horrible and tragic but we cannot just simply eliminate them but instead we need to integrate them into a deeper and more complex life stream.
The devs have mentioned they admired The Witcher 3 game, that's the way to handle that situation... That Yennefer-and-Triss ending.. but with Tifa, Aerith and Cloud (if you know, you know) hehe.
Yup. Nothing matters. I guess that's why baby seal likes it, it's just so meta! I mean, they did it! Just like in real life, nothing you do matters! I am sure Nojima was going for meta, it's not that he can't write a script, the man is basically Dostoevsky, dude.
I dont understand why people keep thinking this game is saying "oh yeah you know that moment aerith and Marlene had, yeah she just was like HEY KID WANNA SEE ME DIE" like that is *obviously* not what happened. She comes in contact with aerith and a connection is established. She feels aerith's purity/heroism/whatever which is what calms her down. But she also taps into Aerith's new powers a bit, which is why she knows things she shouldn't. She felt her dad through that drop of water at the end of remake. It isn't just that aerith showed her a vision of her being murdered. I genuinely don't understand how people can get that from everything that's shown. This is the second discussion I've watched where that has been brought up as some kind of weird or out of character thing for aerith, and I really just don't understand. I apologize if this comes off as rude, I genuinely mean it when I say I don't understand. I'm not trying to be sarcastic.
The entire experience is a 4th wall breaking hyper-meta execution by the developers. The fact that practically everyone playing this game is equal parts confused, angry, sad, "hollowed" out, delusional, coping, etc. insert whatever adjective you want... IS EXACTLY how Cloud's mind is working at this point in the game. You, the PLAYER, are CLOUD. CLOUD is you the PLAYER. What is real? What isn't? Cloud doesn't know; he has his own reality. The player doesn't know; we have our own interpretations and reality. But, the rest of the party in-game does know. The developers know and they're all laughing at us as we're all playing into their hands. This is all going to pay off in the climactic lifestream scene when Tifa (and/or anyone else) unfolds Cloud's mind and he accepts the truth of himself and everything around him. To then be able to flash back to show the burial scene and his monologue from the OG game would be incredibly harder hitting. As with Remake, Rebirth is setting up to make the future more impactful than the immediate moment.
For everyone coping with the game... this is what i did... take the whole remake as fan fiction and keep the og 7 as cannon.. Gave it an 8.7.... would of thrown it in the trash if i kept to canon
dude blamed his mental health issues on remake and the community, and "these random content creators coming out of nowhere". now he's back on the bandwagon. good for him.
I can feel the sincerity in your statement here, but to clear up some things, I didn't blame Remake itself. I blamed the fans that weaponized my words, the words of other creators, and attempted things like getting my channel struck down, getting my sponsorships pulled, and my voice silenced. If you were being attacked from all sides, having people attempt to ruin your content creation career, cancel you for having an opinion, filling your comments sections with threats and hate constantly over theories and opinions, you might not take it so well either. I still love Final Fantasy 7, always have, always will. I had friends like BabySeal in my corner, that made me feel comfortable coming back to the 7R project, and welcomed me with open arms, and allowed me to safely discuss the game and talk about what I loved and didn't love.
In the spirit of discussing the toxic fan base. We will mention this to content creators like yourself but not limited to just you. The majority of the fan base that comment and discuss about FF7 are Caucasian. This is because we have seen time and time again that when a person of color theorizes their opinion on your format, you are quick to extinguish that by discrediting it with replies. So it is very unfortunate that you talk about a toxic fan base, that consist majority of religious zealot equivalents, while shunning away the intellectuals of color that want to participate in discussions. We do believe that this is very implicit and you don’t see it that you do this. So our hope is that you do address this and change so there can be more inclusion for us in your formats. Thank you.
When you say when a POC theorizes their opinion on “your format, you are quick to extinguish that by discrediting it with replies,” are you referring to BBSeal specifically? Or do you mean like white content creators in general or…? I agree that the content creator space and recognized voices thereof are plagued by the same systemic oppression we see in all areas of life unfortunately. However, I know BBSeal is aware of systemic oppression and how that manifests in this space. Im sure they (BBSeal) would be more than willing to have a discussion though if you’re referring to them in your comment. Wishing you well 💕
Wanted to say thanks again for having me on! Was a great discussion, a lot of fun, and think we learned some stuff about each other!
I was with you for the whole journey leading up to Remake so awesome to see your journey and that you enjoyed Rebirth.
@@ZAquadix Thanks for all the support over the years! It means alot!
Glad to see you enjoyed rebirth. I remember you expressing your feelings on remake after your hiatus.
So happy to see you back brother. Glad you are doing well
Soldier i think you blocked me from your RUclips channel. Im not toxic at all and i ask that you unblock me
This was very refreshing and brought back a little bit of warmth to the community. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it! Was a lot of fun chilling with Seal and being back in the fold!
0:01: ⚔ Soldier 1st Class discusses his channel journey and involvement in Final Fantasy 7 remake hype.
14:36: ⚔ Mixed feelings towards Final Fantasy VII Crisis Core, appreciating some aspects but not all.
29:10: 🎭 Highly praised scene in the game with Rufus making a deal on stage, showcasing drama and music.
43:27: ⚔ Barrett's internal conflict during the emotional fight scene with Dy in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth.
57:49: 🎮 Praising Chadley as the best new character, the Proto Relic quest provides good lore in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth.
1:11:31: 🧩 Engaging mechanic using robes in temple puzzles, but maze section felt dragged out.
1:25:24: 🌈 Interpretation of events in the game leads to varied perspectives on fate alteration.
1:39:05: ⚔ Interpretation of the Black and White Whispers' actions leading to a pivotal moment in the storyline.
1:52:52: 🎮 Positive review of the game's psychological aspects and open-ended conclusion.
2:06:03: ⚔ Mixed feelings towards the remake, acknowledging personal taste differences but hoping for creative freedom and authenticity in the production.
2:20:36: ⚔ Discussion on the potential impact of Multiverse in Final Fantasy VII Remake and the influence of writers on the storyline.
2:34:30: ⚔ Discussion on the impact of Mass Effect Anthology additions and risks on the series as a whole.
2:48:13: ⭐ High praise for Final Fantasy VII Remake despite scoring challenges and negative biases, with extra credit used to elevate the rating.
3:01:43: ⚔ Complex ties between characters and factions in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth raise questions about narrative impact.
3:16:02: ⚔ Critique of violence against women in the game, uncertainty about character development, comparison to previous portrayal.
Recap by Tammy AI
New comment after being finally able to see the whole video. I loved your interactions, your respectful dialogue and I am so happy to see two people I really respect and appreciate confront their ideas. This is the healthy environment I like to see, and I am sure lots of people do feel the same as me. Unfortunately some people on the internet tend to be very vocal and aggressive, but not everyone is like that. I am so happy that Soldier gave the game a new try and is back producing the videos we missed so much. And thanks BBseal, you are the best in this community. I think people do not say this enough, you are such a kind person that is impossible not to gravitate towards you. Thanks so much again and I hope to catch streams soon again!
I will listen to the entire chat during a flight tomorrow but I could not resist to already comment how happy I am to see BBS and Soldier together on the screen. I’m sure this discussion will be super nice not only for the content but also for the way of interacting. This is a great start after finishing the game!
Yooo! Caught the stream yesterday, been waiting for Seal Team 7 since finishing Rebirth. Great chat.
It is a great game. The absolute GOTY, IMHO.
Beautiful to hear how you two connected and reconnected. Thank you for a great video.
@soldier1stClass You killed it with your take on the whispers. I to clicked with the exact same idea. And I couldn’t believe no one was talking about it. It’s all about saving cloud and breaking cloud. And with the white whispers guiding Tifa in the life stream in chapter 9. I thought more would pick up on it. But you nailed it.
Thank you 🙏!!
I have been COUNTING THE DAYS until the return of seal team 7!!!!
YESSSS, just beat the game last night Ive been waiting for this! Also the max spoilercast released today! What a day this is gonna be a great listen
I needed this convo, guys. Thank you both for approaching this in good faith and presenting a thought-provoking analysis.
I’m right at the beginning of this video, but I watched everything happen when it happened and was really bummed out about how people can act in the fandom. I’m happy to see soldier back and it was one of the reasons why I wanted to give a try at this. Also this is what I meant by jumping head first into chaos, because sometimes this is that, chaos.
♥♥♥♥
It was really rewarding to me that I memorized that safe code 20 years ago. I then proceeded to guess without looking around it would be same. I was right.
Happy these discussions are back!
My problem with a lot of the community that doesn’t like the remake series is the way they go about crapping on the games and saying their trash like it’s gospel or fact. Both sides like to feed into toxic memes or pointing and laughing with their opinion
most of em gonna end up just like firstclass, sorry
These people tend to not have a clue as to what FF7 is about
Y’all helped keep me sane during my night shift with this conversation! I don’t really have any irl friends who have played the remake series so I love listening to different perspectives and theories on what’s happening and what might happen in the future. Thanks for the video!
I enjoyed this discussion a lot. I'm glad I got to watch this and after hearing your opinions along with others, opened my eyes to the ending and how I viewed them
Thanks for watching!!
This discussion was objectively good and gave me a alot to think about after I just finished. Heres hoping to more ❤. Also i dont know if the music was intentional. But i was lowkey dying cause of juxtaposition of the world of despair theme playing from Zacks interlude whenever you guys were talking about your fears for part 3 and then moments later the Kalm escape theme plays when you guys tried to search for the silver lining 😂
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssssss. Cannot wait to watch this once I've finished the game!
Loooooove you!
Just want to say. I really was feeling hollow for days after the ending. I keep questioning why they make the story so complicated why at the end of the game it became this ending but reliving the process before the ending was phenomenally fantastic.I am a 3d modeler and in a game industry and I started art from loving FF7.
With this ending i was so so worried how they gonna land it in part 3 and if it does not land i feel sad. I just didnt know what to feel. But after watching this podcast and all the "possiblity" or the devs intension to actually make that ending, it gave me some kind of closure. Thank you so much. Thank you so so so much. It means so much
About the void that Aerith’s fate left with a player: I think it’s kinda incredible. How uncomfortable void leaves you. Because to me, the entirety of it reads as Cloud >not being able to dealhollow< scene. I could go batshit crazy drawing a graph of why that makes sense with Cloud’s story and psychological journey that then goes over later into advent children that I cannot possibly fit into a little comment, but hey. Just thinking about the cool unsatisfying moment makes me wonder >why< and all the >why
Hi dear ShrodingerBBS.
First i want to say that once again, it is a pleasure to watch your content ,their 's always a purpose in what you do, you'r not just farming the sh*t out of it just for clicks and views , you instead always propose a real conversation, with other fans and for the fans! kudos to you my dude.
Now for my two cent,. Around the 1.24 time mark in the video, Soldier First class say that he feel " that the game fail ,sometimes , to properly convey it's meaning and concept in the way that it should." Yeah ? Now i don't know if it worth a lot but , i'm French and i just did a rerun of the game but this time with Japanese voice and French Sub...and boy oh boys the differences ! Now as far as i know japanese ,which is very little, i do know for sure that it way easier to translate/convey meaning from Jap, to French that is is from Jap to English. But my men ! Let me tell you that the character are not the same ! they are many, many subtle change that , added on top of one another throughout the game, end up giving you a very different vibe and mood for the characters than how they are portrayed in the ENG localization..annnd their is the NOT so subtle change , a lot of them in fact , that made me question how much liberty a Localization team should be allowed to take ...i wont give you any exemple , cuz you'r a busy man and this comment is already too long , but sometime it's feel like the local' team goes on "Full Freestyle mod" ..especially during the last chapter.
It could be that the French localisation is the one taking liberty , but believe you me! we know how to translate and convey Japanese ! We are the second most consomateur of manga in the world after all. (i'm not starting a Sub war btw , i'm just a big fan with a very keen interest in all the subtleties of FF7 and my favorites Roster Ever).Anyway , it could be interesting i guess, to take a look at the game trough other Sub than Eng , French or otherwise , it was a cool, yet strange experience for me and did deepened my understanding and appreciation of the game .
Bonne chance pour ta chaine mon amis, bientôt pour les 5k subs !
Great chat as usual guyys.
Really enjoyed this.
The way he describes how he felt he "should" feel about Barrett at around 42:45 totally would not fit with the depiction of Barret we have gotten up to this point in the Remake games. Absolutely nobody would have believed that after how great of a character/man Barret has been shown to be over the last game and a half that he all of a sudden "lost it" and just started shooting up random civilians; that would have been a full on yoga stretch.
It made more sense in the original when you didnt have as good of a sense of Barret's personality & morality due to it being all in text so you could have the moment of not being sure, but here it would've just been the very tired "Did the hero really do this horrible thing he obviously didn't do? Tune in next week to find out!" trope
2:31:12 yes! Baby seal remember I was doing the mass effect comparison too. I’m not as mad anymore about the ending of rebirth, but I definitely don’t want another game where 90% of the game is the same until the last chapter. We CANT have remake, rebirth, and repeat! It’s time to pay off alot of story beats
This was a great discussion, but I really could have done without all the introspective drama at the beginning. It's not very good for hooking newcomers (myself among them). There are toxic elements in the FF7 fandom, and the worst thing we can do is give them more oxygen.
For those interested, the on-topic discussion gets started at about the 28:00 mark.
Thank you. And I totally agree. I hate when people feel the need to go at length about how the fandom they inhabit is the worst. Everyone says that about their fandom and we all know it's not unique.
Great seeing you all theorycraft! Can't wait for more.
It's good to see Soldier1stClass back and returning to the conversation. I've been looking forward to everyone talking about FFVII again. Thank Christ for Rebirth.
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1:59:00 I gotta say this breakdown really changed the way I thought about the ending, I was ok with it at first but I think the devs have really been trying so hard on this journey not to remake the. Game but remake the FEELINGS the players had for the game and doing the same thing as the og won’t equal the same feeling.that original death came from out of nowhere and I think he said it best you don’t know how to feel you just feel empty. If you do the full death scene you don’t get that you get that feeling of gee they did a great job with that or satisfaction of it being what you expected, if they have it so you save her straight up you obviously don’t get that feeling either, they couldn’t replicate the feeling of shock and hollowness by giving you the death and water burial but by DENYING you think scene they were able to remake the feelings you had.
I think that’s why the change the first time you get to explore the open world to after kalm with the cinematic opening of the doors rather than right from midgar, in the original it was a wtf moment of wow this game is bigger than I imagined but than you walk over to kalm and go to a flashback, delaying it to post flashback and kalm u get that feeling of awe again. I think so much of the changes that they make to the story are as much about how do we get you to replicate the natural reaction you felt the first time playing this game nearly 30 years ago
I think one of the most important symbols that hasn’t been talked about is when aerith is lying dead on the ground sephiroth says now begins the confluence of worlds which is an interesting adjective to break down & when you look at her body she is in the centre of spiralling out around her are tiles that really resemble timelines splitting apart. Maybe that moment is a singularity that ultimately causes these splitting of worlds. I kinda wonder, we see Zack is back in the same universe but we don’t see WHEN he is in the timeline maybe it ends up being his job to get to the forgotten capital and sacrifice himself saving aerith. And closing the time/world splitting
Comparing Bugenhagen to a flat earther…..perfect and hilarious. Haha
I pulled that out of my ass btw LMAO
So before watching this stream, I was very on board with Max's running ideas of there being an, as he put them, Omni Aerith and Sephiroth that have traveled back in time from OG/AC events and are now exerting their influence on the repeat of the time line, both trying to change the original events to their benefit. But with Baby Seals explanation, I've landed somewhere in between. Taking some from column A and B. I'm still mostly with the Max ideas, but to be clear, I'm not a Max Stan, its just that his ideas more closely match my own idea of how I'd like things to play out, but also cause I think its much more fun. :)
Firstly, though it might be a minor difference in terminology. I don't think the actual FF7 shards/worlds are multi-verse, but actually just timeline branches. (different from actual multi-verse of Gilgamesh going to screw with FF14 WoL) In which, when one person jumps from one to another, are replacing the originals of that timeline when Sephiroth or Aerith shove themselves or someone else into them. This is why when Cloud and Aerith are shunted into the date timeline they are wearing their main timeline clothes. Aerith's are basically the same, but Coma Cloud was in Zack double pauldron soldier armor, but when they jump in from the fall due to Omni Aerith saving them, his clothing swaps to Old bolted single pauldron armor.
I think a lot of these timelines were spawned by the end of Remake, the breaking/corrupting of the Arbiter of Fate causing the major splinter that birthed all these majorly divergent timelines. This was to both Omni Aerith and Omni Sephiroth benefit as it changed major events just enough that gives them both wiggle room to try and affect the "canon" outcome of the whole story. I support the Omni Aerith theory mostly because of the events of Remake, with her just knowing too much about whats going on as the game goes on. She pokes Red he instantly trusts the entire group, and gets Marlene to trust her immediately the same way. Seemingly giving them knowledge of their history together, that hasn't actually happened yet. Also when she first meets Tifa and acts like its been a while, when at that point, they shouldn't know each other at all.
The major deviation I've taken that I'm now on board with Seal is the idea that Rainbows don't in fact indicate Timelines or alternate worlds being created. but are in fact visual representations of Aeriths influence on events from Omni Aerith/the lifestream. Or potentially the form of Hope Lifestream. Sephiroths Purple Tentacles being Despair Lifestream. Each time she's directly doing something from the ether, it has the rainbow effect. Like the rainbow portal she shoves Zack into, or when she walks out to beat Sephiroth's ass, she's literally created rainbow ripples with each footstep. Its the power of Hope, wielded by Aerith to affect events.
The Rainbow bubble Cloud finds himself in when Aerith gets omega shanked is literally Aerith softening the blow of her death. Trying to pull him back from the brink. She knows she needs to die, and while cloud might be worse off in the short term, when reality really sets in. She's seen this movie before, she knows how it ends, and, to use the gamer terms, its the good ending, but not the True Ending. THAT will require something...more. I think clouds in for a much bigger fall into madness, but will culminate with a much higher rise to the occasion when he gets his head screwed back on.
So I think with how rebirth played out there are 3 Aeriths we saw: Omni Aerith, who showed up in the sleeping forest to get the white matera, on the date, "I'm dead, its ok" in clouds arms, and to whoop Sephiroth's ass. Living Aerith, the one we actually played the game, what remained of the living Aerith after Omni stopped the possession at the end of Remake(or was possibly forced out by Sephiroth or the result of blowing the white matera as Baby Seal thinks), and Psychosis Aerith, the force ghost that is a figment of Clouds Shattered mind that shows up at the pool and onwards, which is probably going to be leveraged by Sephiroth to break cloud.
Wall of text crits for 10k Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk to all 3 people who'll actually read this nonsense.
WAIT. I just had a terrible idea that bounces off of Max's Cloud Empty Materia theory. What if cloud wields a third form of Lifestream? think Zelda Triforce BS. Sephiroth wields Destruction(Power) Lifestream created during Remake with black tentacle lifestream represented by the Black Materia. Aerith wields Hope(Wisdom) Lifestream created and used during Rebirth as Rainbows represented by the White Materia. Cloud will wield Courage lifestream(visual unknown) which will be represented by whatever the Empty Materia becomes(gold, orange?), in all likelihood seen when cloud starts his hero arc?
Finally got to watch this, I'm so happy Soldier got to get on here! I missed him talking about this stuff
is tifa going to save cloud from mako poisoning and repair his mind in the lifestream in part 3
Yes she is. The chapter 9 scene is setting it up.
@@garrykearns2316 ok but you do know that if they change it then no one else is going to buy part 3.
@@RyanOstrowski-eh6ft Their not changing it. It’s gonna happen. They might add to it and make it more drawn out. My prediction is sephiroth will try to stop it from happening. It’s why he tryed to get cloud to off her in ch 9. But it will still happen. The creators have said it’s one of the most important parts of the og. Rest easy it will be there.
@@garrykearns2316 ok and why is tifa having visions of cloud holding aerith with blood on her arm and switch to no blood?
@@RyanOstrowski-eh6ft honestly I’m not sure on that part. But 3 ideas. 1 is that she’s some how connected with cloud in some way from coming in direct contact from the life stream in chapter 9 and she can see pieces of what clouds sees now. Or 2 it was aeriths white whispers showing her what clouds seeing. And all for her to some what understand what clouds going threw in that moment. To keep her on the path of still saving him later. Or 3 it’s some timeline stuff and she can see a version of where cloud saved her and where he didn’t. I think option 2 is the most likely and makes the most sense. Considering aeriths white whispers and the weapon saved her in chapter 9.
Ah man, been waiting for rebirth for what seems like forever, and now we have to wait again for the sequel. What a life.
Oh we are so back🎉❤🎉❤
I haven't really seen anyone talk about the intergrade ending scene with Zack opening the church doors in relation to what happens with Zack in this game.
On a separate note I wonder if he is hopping between these fractured lifestream memory worlds. I don't know why, but when I got to the scene of Zack sitting on the steps trying to decide on who to save I got the feeling he had experienced or was aware of what happened when he went to Shinra or Biggs.
My hunch is that it was cut from the game completely. They probably wanted to have it in the final game then decided to leave it out.
If you're curious where I would've featured it... It would've been at the start of the game. Zack leaves Cloud with that Kyrie(?) girl. Runs off the church to check in on where he thinks Aerith is; Opens the church door... Sees mourning folks.. then says "Aerith?" Because he is confused she's not there. He then backs out of the church.. hears folks in the streets mentioning a news broadcast. Zack then decides to seek out the news coverage and the game continues as normal.
@@ourfamilyaccount that makes a lot of sense, only thing is his face is clean in that scene but dirty in game until after getting Aerith. But if they had included it in the way you say they could have just had him clean from that point on I guess.
@@Duckywallpaper I forgot about his clean face. Good observation.
Yeah maybe they could've included a moment where he takes out a cloth from his back pocket and cleans himself before heading to the church. I'm sad it wasn't in the final game but that's truly my best guess of where it would've been placed.
@@ourfamilyaccount Yeah, that is where it fits best with what we have in in the game currently.
It's very clear that Aerith is "alive", be it in one form or another. The Rainbow Light represents the traversal of the "Dream-like Worlds" though it is further distinguished by the colors White or Black, a nod to LS White and LS Black. When Cloud blocks Sephiroth's strike, surrounded by the White and Rainbow colored lights, this indicates a new world's been created where she survived the moment of her death. While she did physically die as witnessed by the rest of the party, Cloud is simultaneously able to view both of them, the world she died in, and the one she didn't, hence the glitching back and forth between the two. Aerith, when entering the Edge of Creation enters through the Rainbow White portal, signalling that she has come FROM the world she survived in, to help Cloud fight against him, thanking him for saving her in the process. When she disappears while holding Cloud's hand, she's physically returning back to the world she survived in through the Lifestream and even though she is now physically gone, Cloud can still see her, like how he does at the end of the game. This is likely what the "It's like a second home" line refers to.
From what I've seen, it seems like most all of us agree that she will be present in Part 3, and I am willing to bet that during the Reunion in which "Worlds Collide", both her and Zack will be there to battle Safer Sephiroth alongside the rest of the party. As to whether or not both of them live, both of them die, or one lives or the other, whose to say for sure...
I kinda feel like you put more thought into it than the writers did my friend.
@@preferredpronoun2614no you
I came to similar conclusions after thinking about the ending for a few days.
It's also useful to take grander look at the remake saga now that we some amounts of new info and question what the purpose for the multiverse plot actually is. I think it's pretty simple, they want to give FF7 a proper send off by finally giving Aerith and Zack their happy ending. Why else would they in some capacity first save Zack in Remake and now Aerith in Rebirth? So that they could either live happily ever after in either the main party timeline after the reunion of worlds or live together in a separate one after the battle with sephiroth is won. I would be very surprised if the things I said didn't happen, but I do admit that they are still just theories.
I am optimistic about how they handle the conclusion of this trilogy since so much of Remake and Rebirth are excelently written and the endings are both intentionally confusing for a reason. Can't wait for part 3.
@@tumei1851 Yes exactly this. The handling of the characters has been so well done, fleshing them out in deeper ways than they ever have before. To bring Zack back, only as fan service for things like the end of Rebirth I believe would be a waste. There have been hints as far back as Remake that Aerith and Zack have had a connection with one another, from sensing each other as they walked by in Remake, to Aerith feeling his hand in the Gi River in Rebirth. They'll undoubtedly reunite in Part 3. The Zerith in me wants them to have a happy ending together, but even them just interacting would be something else...
Who would've thought that they might actually see each other again after the events of Crisis Core? Just that thought is so exciting and terrifying at the same time. The idea of them joining forces to battle Safer Sephrioth along side the main party in the all out climactic battle would be so great to see, regardless of whether they survived or not...and if it does turn out that one of them dies, I would be okay with that as well. Should Zack live and Aerith die, so be it. Let the two of them mirror the core theme of FF7: Life and Death. Let their reunion happen, then break our hearts all over again. It's been a great ride just to have these characters back.
@@CloudAtreides I think SE would rather go with a neutral happy ending here or maybe with optional endings. The Clerith community in Japan is still huge. I can't imagine them taking a stance in the shipping debate. The backclash and the economical damage wouldn't be worth it even if the writers would prefer this easy conclusion of the story.
@schrodingersbabyseal im new to your channel and I saw you on Princes vid and really liked you and your thoughts and approach. Even more so after watching this video. You have a new fan and im excited to be part of your community and hopefully making new friends.
I think the mechanics of the game, the overall narrative, the music, are all well done and clearly are very refined. I think the issue comes down to is it a well-crafted story that fits well into the overarching story of the FF7 universe? And that's where I'd say not very much.
For me, the problem has been in the execution of it all. The desperate NEED for the devs to try and keep players guessing and talking has resulted in this very bad multi-world plotline. And although I don't think it doesn't make sense in the lore of the world, since it is not time-travel or a true multiverse, the way that it has been presented has just been very poorly done. We only get a bulk description of it from Sephiroth who reveals that the worlds are basically off-shoots contained within the Lifestream and it's many memories and spirits.
All this side bullshit is a result of Nomura somehow being convinced that the fans would have found a straight retelling of the original story to have been boring, boring, boring, which I cannot understand at all.
When first seeing it I was pretty frustrated by it but I'm slowly coming around to how it was done and how Cloud's character seems to be going forward. I'm intrigued.
I'm so glad you played Rebirth Soldier 1st class!
Me too! Lmao thank you!
I dont care what anyone says, the soldier creed between Zack and Cloud was unironically cool
Great conversation, guys! If we get a Vincent DLC, they should focus and flesh out his backstory also shown in Dirge of Cerberus. Maybe we'll even learn of the Protomateria earlier on too.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Mideel is located in the Banora region. So I think we definitely get Banora (given the compilation nature of the Re trilogy), but maybe they end up combining Mideel into Banora.
Least favorites for me: 1) Controlling Cait Sith to figure out how to escape Nibelheim's Manor's undergrounds: although obstacles not hard to solve, still too long of a session that requires to use bad control of throwing boxes. 2) The left behind Avalanche HQ team's mini game that assigns robots to fight monsters like portion of Fort Condor, but confusing management. 3) Chadley talks and informs too much; better to lessen Intel quests so players can discover mysteries themselves.
I've been waiting for Seal Team 7 to return for years... No, seriously.
And what better way for it to return but with great people such as you two! 🙌
Love you bro!
how rebirth transfer over to real life is amazing! first it was the emptiness we felt was as close to grief as we could get. and how the whispers were most on the side of seph at the beginning of game but at the end of game Aerith set things right again like most people feel the game is back on the right track now. but just like seph in the game, devs message no promises to keep and things in real world. its a sense that things is not over. i never seen a game move people the way rebirth does Rebirth now gets a 14.5 out of 10 for me with how it moves the fan base outside of the game.
Nice Discussion it’s nice to see Soldier1stClass to have back 😊.
My favourite Chapters where the Gold Saucer and Costa de Soul i loved that special the Dio X Corneo stuff xD.
Nice to be back, thank you 🙏
I definitely would have liked a 1-1.. Rebirth was amazing… it’s definitely different.. and a new vision but you can tell they care that’s all I ask for!!! The story changes are a bit Over the top but This game is also almost 30 years old if people think nothing would change that’s kinda disingenuous… but the internet a weird place..
I think we’re 100% going to be able to revisit every single area plus all the new ones. It’s the final game and to even just pad it out they’re gonna have to let every area he re-vistisble for the sake of one padding the game out more, two getting resolutions and three to get the perspective of every town as meteor is falling. This if anything is the final send off for FF7 every single thing that happened in the original will be here easily
I predict Part 3 ends with the ultimate deus ex machina: Chadley challenging and defeating Sephiroth to a game of Queen’s Blood, thus destroying him in every universe
Amazing game and GOTY
5 stages of grieving. DABDA
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance.
Cloud, and us players, are left on the first phase. Not to mention Aerith is doing her best to shield her since from facing it in the moment since Sephiroth has already tortured his mind to where dealing with it would break him at that moment when there was a fight to be had.
Also when they were looking at the water where Aerith was laid to rest, Cloud gets a Jenova headache in green but when her death part comes it turns to a pink(?) hue for a second, which could mean that it was being repressed. And when Aerith appears, the music was very similar to Jenova’s. And everyone was grieving and Tifa was just done and doesn’t even talk to Cloud about this.
At the end of the day, it will only be after the story is finished where we can judge it as a whole. And even then, it will be years of people talking about it. Just like the OG.
Im probably the only one that liked the Soldier Creed moment though I will say it was weird cause I don't know what they will do in part 3 to top that unless everyone does the creed or something
Maybe Sephiroth will do it this time? LMFAO
I loved all of Temple of The Ancients but I will preface this by saying I had to take breaks because of my nephews but even then I still felt like I FLEW through it and wanted more as it was one of my favorite level designs in the game. Reminded me of Pitios. I guess I got lucky and chose the right directions my first time.
I think after Rebirth's conclusion audience members, and particularly OG fans, ultimately have to accept that the devs are recreating memorable moments as "vibes" in the ReProject versus direct one to one imagery as a potential core creative direction.
Whether they can payoff that creative direction in a generally satisfying manner to enter the zeitgeist of immersive meta storytelling is a heavy load part 3 has to carry now. But I think anyone has to at least admit that the drama and emotions the endings of both Remake and Rebirth have produced among the zeitgeist at the moment are eerily similar to OG's end of Midgar with mystery and Aerith's scene of closure stolen were directed to produce in players, so I figure that's enough to see where this wild meta train is confidently barreling towards.
Also... How creep is that Rebirth ending though? Just the vibe that Jenova has managed to invade the psyche of this family of characters to truly challenge their convictions to save The Planet above all other life.
My issue with the end is that I expected either they yhrow the curve all where we save her, and then it becomes another "what does Zack being alive mean?" scenario with the whole fanbase, or I *finally* get to feel the loss other people have.
Barret and Aerith were two characters I never really resonated with on OG's release, and with these characters able to express so much more emotion and personality via better graphics and full voice acting, I really grew to like these characters in ways that I haven't over the 20 plus years at the games existed. I finally had a reason to be crushed by erithyne, but that was taken from me. I guess the meta aspect is there but that's what I was waiting the entire game for That's what I've been waiting for years for and it just wasn't there.
Deaths in real life don't really move me so, I was looking forward to being moved by this one.
Firm believer that Sephiroths endgame was to get rid of Holy/ Aerith since it poses the biggest threat to his plan. However by the creation of another world will now be his undoing since Aerith managed to get an active Holy into the current world. Was the clear materia the Holy that was used at end of OG is the biggest question noone is touching. Hence Aerith we know in Re trilogy is one who has knowledge of the future or is an Aerith from post OG.
Mannnn I thought of this fan fiction for Cid the other day..
Something that has always bothered me about Cid, is how he feels like the only party member who’s affinity for combat has never really been contextualized. The idea was that, Cid’s father was once President Shinra’s right-hand man. He had three children, two boys and a girl. Cid, Kain and Aranea.. who he instilled in each of them a love for flight, and trained them as specialized fighters under the funding of “Project: Dragoon”. Cid’s father architected specialized single-person flight machines that only his children were permitted to use, and only the knew the science to construct. One day, Cid’s father was mysteriously murdered, and the Highwind family, the dragoons, were left on the beck and call of President Shinra. Cid had the brains of his father, he was a capable dragoon in his own right, but his younger brother Kain was the one truly gifted with fighting prowess and talent. While Aranea, some years younger than the other two.. was sheltered as the baby girl from actually going on missions. One day, Pres Shinra mandated Cid and Kain fly a dangerous mission, and said that afterward they could enjoy their retirement, as they would no longer be needed as the SOLDIER program had gained real traction so funding would be reallocated to R&D. Cid, angry and disgruntled, refuses to fly the mission and says that from then on.. consider him an “engineer” but no more, Kain flies the mission solo and never returns.
So I really wanted Cid to have a “grizzled veteran” persona in Rebirth.. to see if they wouldn’t go a route like that, and the “dragoon class” from TFS was what inspired the dragoon-technical “wings”. It would’ve paid an homage to Kain from IV, and Aranea who ended up getting super screwed in XV. She would’ve been the spiteful younger sister who grew up training internally at Shinra, angry at Cid for leaving Kain to fly solo. And Kain could resurface in some kind of “winter soldier” type of story.
If they did make it so that either Zack or Aerith lived, I think Zack would be the safer of the two options. Especially since Cissnei and his parents are still waiting for him and that would be a touching moment to see him return to them.
Cissnei says at the end of her quests that she feels like he’s gonna come back
I felt the Seto scene was rushed and it didnt give me the emotional feeling OG did. Same with Aeriths infamous scene. Dying to see some Knights of the round lore in a flashback with Cetra fighting against Jenova.
I agree with you on the Seto scene since it was actually TRYING to be a faithful adaptation of the original scene. As for Aerith’s infamous death scene, the game clearly wasn’t trying to faithfully adapt that scene. I feel that the “emotional crux” of the scene isn’t meant to be Aerith’s death anymore, the emotional crux was meant to be the moment you realize that Cloud CANNOT relate to and mourn with his friends anymore. When Tifa is mourning Aerith’s death, she slowly gets up and looks at Cloud with a sad look, just for her to be met with a SMILE from Cloud, and THAT is the real tragedy here. Since Cloud believes Aerith is alive, there’s a very tragic wedge that has been placed between Cloud and the group. Nobody can relate to Cloud anymore. And as we’ve seen, this WILL and already HAS caused conflict and mixed emotions. I actually think that this turn of events is way more emotional than the original. At least Cloud was able to go mourn with his friends in the original, now there’s a giant disconnect that is involved which makes things more interesting and emotional for me.
@@KingdomKeyJT precisely for this reason it fails, it stops being about her and becomes about him, it stops being a tragedy and the ephemeral nature of life and becomes a multiversal mystery, which is constructed to be intentionally confusing, vague and meaningless. They abandoned the emotional power of Aerith's death for theorycrafting.
@@gian2412 how was it all for the sake of “multiversal theory crafting” if it quite literally sets up for and creates emotional moments that add onto the themes of the story? As a scene, I believe it serves the EXACT same purpose as Aerith’s death in the og (to set up for emotional moments that add onto the themes of the story). Just because the focus isn’t on Aerith’s death anymore, it doesn’t mean that the scene doesn’t serve the same purpose. It’s not just multiversal stuff for the sake of it 💀. Your take makes literally no sense to me so I completely don’t agree with it.
that barrial scene will still come in part 3, they kept it because how fucked up cloud is right now and he doesn't accepted her death yet
3:10 Wtf this guy talking about. Of course part 3 gonna have the city of the acient and Gongaga.
I honestly feel like Aerith has to come back / be alive in some capacity at this point because I haven't seen a single person satisfied with her death scene, especially without seeing her burial. So why keep her dead? From a story telling perspective it seems better for Square to take a risk and commit to keeping her alive.
@Soldier1stClass also I truly believe the devs want as to feel hollow and they will fuck us in part 3
Nice; i can finally watch this now that i beat it
ReBirth feels a lot like Mass Effect 3 for me. Great game for most of its run time, and then it just falls flat on its face at the end
Mass Effect was actually the comparison I used as well lmao
Honestly the ending was good. People just really wanted it to be more conclusive than it was EVER meant to be in the new trilogy. The fact you're comparing it to a seminal game, unconsciously, shows exactly that. A lot of people decrying that it doesn't have the same emotional hit treat the developers like they haven't had multiple interviews on this EXACT topic prior to launch, saying they've found that doing the same thing doesn't have the same weight. (The OG devs) I guarantee you they've done interest group testing and found this shit out.
From a directing standpoint, a lot of what they did here at the end makes sense, and I was VERY confused after I finished the game and saw people upset and saw people upset with the ending. A commonality I've found in many of these repeated discussions is people being unable to recognize that they made the ending confusing and offputting for a reason. It's brought up MULTIPLE times by Sephiroth that Cloud is incapable of parsing through his emotions in line with the original. We, as players, are meant to feel the same sort of feelings that Cloud does at each moment. Confusion. This should, ultimately, be cleared up in part 3. That's its PURPOSE. To set up the means to give Cloud his purpose... not to be the thing that gives him it. Not to be a moment of solemnity and clarity. That's TIFAS purpose later.
After back and forth's with people, I've come to the conlusions that it really feels like the same people upset after the first game took a turn are the same people upset with this, simply because it's not a remaster. They could have played safer and not gotten these headlines... but would that have really made a good setup? I would wager not. Regardless, at this point, I'm past caring about the IGN munchers.
@@sammie16508well put
@nathanstruble2177 perfect analogy.
I think you're on to something when you say that "feeling like Cloud" in the ending might have been what the developers where going for. Cause they already did that masterfully at the end of Remake. "Boundless terrifying freedom" You were right there with the party fearing what this uncertain future might bring. It wasn't a pleasant feeling necessarily but very well executed. And I can see them doing that again here. Sacrificing a "pleasant" experience for one that puts you right in the shoes of the characters.
Great seeing you talk together! Great that you liked the things better than expected(?), and seeing you're a part of the community Soldier1class.
Thank you 🙏
Soldier is the definition what Vincent says before you enter the temple
I don't remember the line, so I hope that's a good thing LMFAO
@@Soldier1stClass he says ''expectations often lead to disappointment'', many of the things you mentioned that you didn't like about remake and rebirth occurred because you generated expectations and they weren't met, which is perfectly understandable since the subject is about a ''remade'' work, but the games itself in several moments from the beginning showed that it would not necessarily follow the same steps as the original source, I really liked your conversation with babyseal btw and your new vision on the project
I think the white whispers are more planet than Aerith. After Aerith dies she'll have more influence on them. But I don't think Aerith is the one trying to keep you away from the altar per se. If you listen to her prayer, I think it's pretty telling.
SquareEnix needs to do what Echo-S did… and everyone will be happy. Right after they finish this thrillergy.
Im on Chapter 9 hard mode now
I like the part where cloud and Zack fight sephiroth. There now you know one person who does
It is no question.
Loved the ending and babyseal describes it perfectly... soldiers take on the ending and going through it/experience is what makes the ending so perfect.
Hats off to the devs to capturing those emotions because holy hell I didn't think it was possible!
Can't wait for part 3 because it's gonna hit like a brick.
Is it odd I like Final Fantasy VII lore yet I just become less and less in tune with any time travel/multi verse plot? It was all a blur. Otherwise an enjoyable experience story wise.
Me too. The moment you introduce multiple timelines/universes, all weight these characters had in the story is immediately thrown out the window for me. But gameplay wise it was a good game.
Just started chapter 9 and so far:
Take all the Zach stuff out of it, it might be my favourite game ever (minus the OG)
However I feel like they butchered the gold saucer and battle arena.
I said it back when remake was out that having the corneo coliseum completely diluted the battle arena in gold saucer. On top of that you have another battle arena in corel prison. Blew their load way too early.
If I remember rightly the battle arena in the OG was more involved in the main story? It wasnt at all here. No different mechanics or big cutscenes (like corneos coliseum had).
Dynes shooting had no weight to it (no blood, no mass evacuation, hardly any bodies or people panicking all over the place).
I absolutely loved the Ghost house and Cait Sith role in gold saucer (in Rebirth) however.
Midgar zolom after fight was so weird - as Soldier 1st class nailed it, its so odd no one makes comments that Cloud or something killed the zolom in that way (and the whole monsters in the mine despite literally killing the embodiment of fate). And there are many moments like this that frustrates me.
Nobody in the party addressing what is going on, Aerith being crypic, and Tifa gaslighting Cloud for 2 whole games hits a lot different when characters are fully voiced over and we can see their reactions better. It gets frustrating to say the least.
lol at people hating Rebirth because they didn’t explain every single thing that happened. As if there’s no part 3 coming to make sense of things.
A solid 7
❤❤❤
I think you guys are probably right about the ending, and I hate that story choice. Cloud ends rebirth more deranged than I've ever seen him (that's fine but I hope he's going for a swim almost immediately next game). He's the puppet Sephiroth says he is and Aerith isn't trying to cut the strings, she's battling for control of them. I work in mental health. Grief is so important to healing and "pretend it didn't happen" is just an incredibly destructive thing. The more unstable you are, the less capable you are of dragging that burden out. Aerith is too kind, to smart, too emotionally intelligent to do that, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't write her doing it and kind of botching the whole plot point for me.
I think it works much better if Cloud himself is behind the delusion. He did it before with Zack. Cloud would absolutely tell himself everything is fine, SOLDIER on. Aerith needs to be a force dragging him back to himself. To grieve like a human. That he's strong enough to overcome that. He's not just an empty puppet, there's a real person in there that's good enough, and it's going to be ok.
How does all of this jive with all the other details? Why does Cloud seem to have Aerith's abilities to see force ghosts and the mark of doom in the sky that's been haunting her? I don't know. I think there's a good chance that none of the details can fit together yet. That nothing has been written, hence nothing is legible. It could all just anime BS. I think the only thing that actually matters is that Sephiroth is harvesting despair from whatever these doomed worlds or dreams or whatever they are(probably doesn't matter). Aerith finds refuge in a world that doesn't fall into despair. This is probably going to be the nature of their battle for the soul of the planet, because that probably determines that nature of Holy.
A really interesting theme I'm seeing with feedback since I broke my social media blackout is how people are ignoring the meta-narrative remake seems to be establishing. Like the idea of does Aerith live/die, is she alive/dead, is Zack alive/dead, will Zack live/die are largely irrelevant and not the crux of what FF7 is or the story the development team is seemingly trying to tell. We will be once again relying on lore crafting to really break down what's going on for people to think about because so many of the takes seems VERY base.
Love having a seal team 7 video to break my media blackout. Looking forward to the rest of your god-tier uploads Clark.
Way more content than intergrade. Definitely a better game just few things i hated in rebirth
Game was good but I was hoping for another outcome for Aerith. I kinda can't imagine playing another 100 hours of part 3 without her in the team. I was hyped for Rebirth but not really looking forward to part 3 tbh.
1:54:30 hey PLEASE give more than 2 seconds before you spoil a game that’s like 6 months old. Thanks.
How would you feel if the theme of anti-capitalism was treated similarly to the theme of Aerith's death? In that both death and capitalism are horrible and tragic but we cannot just simply eliminate them but instead we need to integrate them into a deeper and more complex life stream.
Communisme kill millions of peoples.
Rebirth is the best jRPG ever made
Cant wait for the game to have a Tifa ending and Aerith,then shippers fight until the end of time
The devs have mentioned they admired The Witcher 3 game, that's the way to handle that situation... That Yennefer-and-Triss ending.. but with Tifa, Aerith and Cloud (if you know, you know) hehe.
of course you get people being mad with this remake call it bad
I really don't like the multiverse stuff. Aerith died? Well, time to go get Aerith from universe #69.
Yup. Nothing matters. I guess that's why baby seal likes it, it's just so meta! I mean, they did it! Just like in real life, nothing you do matters!
I am sure Nojima was going for meta, it's not that he can't write a script, the man is basically Dostoevsky, dude.
I dont understand why people keep thinking this game is saying "oh yeah you know that moment aerith and Marlene had, yeah she just was like HEY KID WANNA SEE ME DIE" like that is *obviously* not what happened. She comes in contact with aerith and a connection is established. She feels aerith's purity/heroism/whatever which is what calms her down. But she also taps into Aerith's new powers a bit, which is why she knows things she shouldn't. She felt her dad through that drop of water at the end of remake. It isn't just that aerith showed her a vision of her being murdered. I genuinely don't understand how people can get that from everything that's shown. This is the second discussion I've watched where that has been brought up as some kind of weird or out of character thing for aerith, and I really just don't understand.
I apologize if this comes off as rude, I genuinely mean it when I say I don't understand. I'm not trying to be sarcastic.
First
The entire experience is a 4th wall breaking hyper-meta execution by the developers. The fact that practically everyone playing this game is equal parts confused, angry, sad, "hollowed" out, delusional, coping, etc. insert whatever adjective you want... IS EXACTLY how Cloud's mind is working at this point in the game. You, the PLAYER, are CLOUD. CLOUD is you the PLAYER. What is real? What isn't? Cloud doesn't know; he has his own reality. The player doesn't know; we have our own interpretations and reality. But, the rest of the party in-game does know. The developers know and they're all laughing at us as we're all playing into their hands. This is all going to pay off in the climactic lifestream scene when Tifa (and/or anyone else) unfolds Cloud's mind and he accepts the truth of himself and everything around him. To then be able to flash back to show the burial scene and his monologue from the OG game would be incredibly harder hitting. As with Remake, Rebirth is setting up to make the future more impactful than the immediate moment.
Why does he support localizations being unfaithful so long as those changes agree with his socio-political beliefs? Lol
For everyone coping with the game... this is what i did... take the whole remake as fan fiction and keep the og 7 as cannon..
Gave it an 8.7.... would of thrown it in the trash if i kept to canon
Everything hinges on the 3rd part. I doubt they'll stick the landing but we'll always have OG.
dude blamed his mental health issues on remake and the community, and "these random content creators coming out of nowhere". now he's back on the bandwagon. good for him.
I can feel the sincerity in your statement here, but to clear up some things, I didn't blame Remake itself. I blamed the fans that weaponized my words, the words of other creators, and attempted things like getting my channel struck down, getting my sponsorships pulled, and my voice silenced. If you were being attacked from all sides, having people attempt to ruin your content creation career, cancel you for having an opinion, filling your comments sections with threats and hate constantly over theories and opinions, you might not take it so well either. I still love Final Fantasy 7, always have, always will. I had friends like BabySeal in my corner, that made me feel comfortable coming back to the 7R project, and welcomed me with open arms, and allowed me to safely discuss the game and talk about what I loved and didn't love.
@@Soldier1stClass I'm glad you're enjoying the game. I was a fan of your channel for a long time before the 180.
In the spirit of discussing the toxic fan base. We will mention this to content creators like yourself but not limited to just you. The majority of the fan base that comment and discuss about FF7 are Caucasian. This is because we have seen time and time again that when a person of color theorizes their opinion on your format, you are quick to extinguish that by discrediting it with replies. So it is very unfortunate that you talk about a toxic fan base, that consist majority of religious zealot equivalents, while shunning away the intellectuals of color that want to participate in discussions.
We do believe that this is very implicit and you don’t see it that you do this. So our hope is that you do address this and change so there can be more inclusion for us in your formats. Thank you.
When you say when a POC theorizes their opinion on “your format, you are quick to extinguish that by discrediting it with replies,” are you referring to BBSeal specifically? Or do you mean like white content creators in general or…? I agree that the content creator space and recognized voices thereof are plagued by the same systemic oppression we see in all areas of life unfortunately. However, I know BBSeal is aware of systemic oppression and how that manifests in this space. Im sure they (BBSeal) would be more than willing to have a discussion though if you’re referring to them in your comment. Wishing you well 💕