Also: Rhaegar went looking elsewhere because of his interpretation of the prophecy saying the dragon had to have three heads. And Elia couldn't have more children. Cersei doesn't have that problem.
Cersei could develop that problem however. If you believe in Rhaegar's prophecy seeking ways like I do, I believe Rhaegar NEEDED a Stark to produce the third head (the song of ice and fire).
That's a bit of a stretch, though? We know that Cersei had three children in "the original timeline", so unless Cersei is an entirely different person in this alternate line, there's no reason why she would suddenly become unable to bear children. Also, if I recall correctly, the case wasn't in fact that Elia COULDN'T have more children, but that her health was too poor to have a somewhat decent chance of surviving the ordeal. But that's another matter :) As I said, I think you're stretching it a bit because you want it to fit the theory :) We can all be guilty of that. It took that last confirmation in season 6 before I reluctantly had to come to terms with the fact that the show went with R+L=J, and I still hold out hopes that GRRM will make it different in the books (they HAVE said that the books and show are going to be wildly different from here on in, but I agree that it's a straw I'm grasping at).
Mark P But L + R = J kinda has to happen, because even though the books and the show go differently, the end game is the same. That is at least what I have heard about. It goes differently on the show, because spoilers for the books and it cost a lot to make them, so they need to do someways different and quicker to reach to the ending, which is the same in both books and show. Plus L + R = J has been hinted in the books since the first book. And do you think that GRRM would be quiet about something that he doesnt like in the show. He has already voiced that he is angry how they brought Benjen Stark back as Coldhands or in general, when he was supposed be dead and stay dead. Plus he wouldnt let the show beging or continue if its a fanfiction, because he said that he hates fanfiction about ASoIaF.
GRRM asked Dan and Dave who Jon's mother was as a test to see if they would be good enough to take on the series. Clearly they got the answer correct so it must be R+L=J
A few points: 1. Lysa only became mad because she lost so many babies, she was described as being sweet and beautiful before all of her miscarrieges. Also she never really loved Jon Arryn but Jaime and Lysa might perhaps develope some feelings. 2. Rhaegar was obsessed with the three-headed dragon and/or Azor Ahai theory. Elia could only have two children and if she had a third it would kill her, Cersei had three children so I dont think that Rhaegar would have the need to go with Lyanna.
His son Domeric (Who Ramsay killed in the books) would still be alive. Also Theon would’ve been captured by Ser Rodrik after the siege of winterfell in the books, and in the show maybe some other Northern house takes winterfell.
You mean the older brother, of wants his name... the cripple... Willas that's it! Yeah Sansa thought it was going to be Loras cuz she thought he was cute for a bit but it was going to be Willas Tyrell, heir to highgarden.
bartlomiej markiewicz ....& how (or if) Cersai could've been different◀ towards Tyrion I mean. She's so superficial I have a feeling she would've been judgmental towards him regardless (just because he's an imp) and the fact that their mom died during childbirth was just a convenient excuse for her to judge.
Well wasn't she trying to match Cercie and Jamie to Quentyn and Elia respectively with their mom at the time? I would be very happy if Joanna loved Tyrion as a son just to see how jealous Cerci got.
If Joanna hadn't survived childbirth then Cersei and Jamie would've never had children. Joanna found out about them and separated them to opposite ends of the Rock before she died. She was also planning to marry at least one of them into the Martell family at the time (Obeyn thinks that they were both to be married into their family but also mentions there was ONE other bed on the boat for someone of high birth. So possibly the mothers agreed to marry their families thogether and were just going to see which coupling worked better together and decide then), which might have separated them further.
True but it may be a reflection of Robert, obsessed with the memory/idea of someone when they aren't there to sully it. She may have ended up being just as upset that Rhaegar preferred books to her as Robert preferred women.
I don't think Rhaegar would have went for lyanna if he had married Cersei. He needed 3 kids for his prophecy and was planning on getting them all from ellia but she was only able to give him 2. If she got pregnant again it would kill her. So then he was forced to find another mother and Lyanna was the one he chose. If he had married Cersei she would have been able to give him 3 kids easy, so he would have had no need for the Stark
+TheBattProductions Why Stark? (Show watcher only) Nothing in the prophesies of the Prince That Was Promised[Salt&Smoke,BleedingStar] nor Azor Ahai [Lion,NissaNissa] nor The Stallion That Mounts the World [GoodRider?] actually says what family the great warrior will come from. The Targaryen's are simply attaching a falsity by some wood's witch to the prophesy.
Ice and Fire dude. Just as simple. "HIS is the song of Ice and Fire" and foolish Rhaegar thought "My Aegon is totally safe here, gonna give him a half-brother of ICE to be his fella!"Poor, *poor* Aegon and Rhaenys and Elia. So by default, it now falls to said half-brother.
+ Tonto Del Pitillo I have never read the books but I don't think anything you typed is in any book at all. Rhaegar was dead at the Battle of the Trident so he didn't think or give any baby to anyone. Your facts are specious if even existent at all. Last you have ignored what the prophesies say. None of them talk about the Targaryens, Starks or any other house in Westros. If you have proof otherwise; I will accept that. But your simply twisting George R.R. Martin's title of the book series to fit what you want to say. That is not proof.
What.... how.... why... are you stupid? 1 yes a song of ice and fire is IN the books and a big deal AND on the cover of the books. THATS WHY ITS ON THE COVER!!!! It's in the book and important!! No one ever titles an award winning series something that has nothing to do with anything in the actual story. And 2 if you've never read the books you have not right or authority to tell anyone what is in said books or not. 3 no, no prophecy EXPLICITLY STATES that a targaryan and a stark will Auckland have a kid to save the world from some ice zombies. No the prophecy talked about a song of ice and fire and rhaegar somehow through his studies and research tied it to another prophecy about 3 heads of the Dragon. Now tell me the 3 heads of the Dragon has nothing to do with targs! And with his dad rhaegar could easily associate targs with fire on many levels. Plus who represents ice more than the starks. Also one of those 2 prophecies was foretold at a targ palace to targs during a fire that killed a lot of targs AND it was the same time and place rhaegar was born. So go ahead fucking tell me that the targs have nothing to do with it.
This changes a lot. Rhaegar most likely doesn't run off with Lyanna. He believed very much that the dragon has three heads, and Elia was only able to give two children, Cersei as we know has had three. The best way to have Rhaegar marry Cersei is not to rely on a rare moment of clarity from Aerys II, but rather have him killed in the Defiance of Duskendale, Rhaegar ascends the Iron Throne and comes under the influence of then Hand of the King Tywin Lannister who arranges the marriage.
See I think that because Rhaegar was so obsessed with the Three-Headed prophecy, I think having a Stark mixed with his blood was very important (not just Elia being unable to have another child).
Adding to the outcomes of Cersei marrying Rhaegar would be Daenerys never hatching the dragons and being hidden away nor developing this Iron Throne obsession. I'm just saying. I mean Rheagar would have heirs to the throne and she would have no claim over it whatsoever.
@@archenforever7264 let's assume if cersei and rhaegar only had sons no daughter, then dany would marry eldest son, dany would be daughter in law of cersei 😂 😂 wow
I'm surprised Robert never considered a betrothal between Joffrey or Tommen and Daenerys. In Robert's boots, I'd prefer to have Daenerys married to one of my sons and under my familial authority, as opposed to what actually happened.
Why does Cersei marrying Rhaegar change Jaime's desire to join the King's Guard? Yes, Cersei was the one who talked him into it at the end by saying they would be together, but Jaime was already toying with the dream of joining because he did believe in Knighthood once and aspired to be a great knight. He still thinks about how amazing Ser Arthur Dayne was.
Alex Martínez Ned never wanted the throne in any case, he was pretty content with being lord of the North. The six southern kingdoms would have conspired to kill him anyway , as Northern values and religion don't wash in the South.
He didn't have the blood claim, and, most important, was a northerner. That means potentially the Faith against him, because he was not anointed and named in the Light of the Seven when he was born. I can see a religious uprising being set up by Targaryen loyalists.
TheBattProductions You don't always need to create what if video based on your fan's comments. Create video that is very interesting like what if vary's were a Dany supporter from the start?
Actually, not quite. Yes, him being a Targaryen would be pretty obvious with the Targaryen looks but what I meant was basically this situation: Tower of Joy happens as it does but instead of being able to easily pass as a Stark, Jon has the platinum hair and purple eyes of a Targaryen, making it almost impossible to pass him of as Ned's. What would then happen with baby Jon and how it would affect his story arc as well as the whole situation in Westeros in present time, because obviously bringing him to Winterfell is rather unlikely now... Hope this could clear it up a bit, I'm bad at explanaitions ^^'
Sapphire Ruby Stargate when Targaryens marry outside Valyrian families the babies tend to appear non-Valyrian. Of fhe Great Bastards only Daemon Blackfyre and Shiera Seastar resembled full Targaryens. If Jon did have the Targaryen appearance however unlikely it would be, Ned might have just left him with the Daynes but arranged him to be fostered at Winterfell at age earlier than usual. as the Daynes are from Dorne Jon 's bastardy would not really be a problem and he might grow up with more confidence and strength
SantomPh Wrong, most times the Targaryen married outside valyrian families the children resembled their valyrian children and not their non valyrian parents
The reason Rhaegar had a child with Lyanna was because he wanted to fulfill the prophecy of Azor Ahai which involves three children ; Visenya, Aegon, Rhaenys. Elia wasn't fit to have another child so he ran off with Lyanna Stark and then fell in love with her and married her. I think if he married Cersei, they would have three children and they would've lived happily ever after. Jon wouldn't have been born, instead his other son Aegon would've fulfilled the prophecy. Either, Daenarys and Viserys would've gotten married or Dany and Aegon would've gotten married. Rhaegar would've been King, but there would be no song of ice & fire. Brandon would've married Catelyn and Ned probably would've married Ashara Dayne. Lyanna would've married Robert. There would be no war, no Starks killed, and most probably no dragons. I think the Azor Ahai thing would've worked out nicely because Rhaegar knew it would happen eventually.
Aerys II rejecting Tywin’s offer could also be that the former did not want a possible alliance between Rhaegar and Tywin. Remember that Aerys had a strained relationship with his son. He was suspicious of his actions that he might overthrow him.
Thanks man! BTW: I just bought ANOTHER Valyrian Steel item for my collection...I'm up to 6. I'm going to sell my Oathkeeper to justify this purchase, but I bought Khal Drogo's arakh! (for $125.00...you can't blame me at a price that good!)
actually: you say that cersei marrying rhaegar wouldn't have changed lyanna and rhaegar being a thing.. but i beg to differ. it's heavily implied that rhaegar sought out lyanna in order to have another child. yes, he may have loved her, and may have loved her wild spirit, but since he believed in the prophecy of azor ahai, and in 'the dragon has three heads', he sought three children. and elia, after the birth of aegon, was not fit to give birth to more children. and that's why rhaegar sought other women out. if cersei, instead, married rhaegar? i don't doubt that they'd have three children, unless it was rhaegar who actually was having the baby conceivng issues. and this, as a result, wouldn't lead to Robert's Rebellion, as rhaegar wouldn't steal away lyanna. thus, by aerys refusing to wed cersei to his son, out of fear of being usurped, has ironically lead... to the whole targaryan dynasty collapsing.
kawaii gamer he would have to face rebellion eventually, especially from the Dornish who supported Daeron the Good and are notoriously difficult to put down. Also each kingdom split into two during the war, those wounds will open again and again with Daemon winning.
Doctor Emmett L. Brown Cersei didn't actually mind getting Rheagar or even Robert ( pre-fat blob). While we do not know what Rheagar would have done for her , she lost taste in Robert after he muttered Lyanna's name on their wedding night
I like how you brought up how Tywin would have brought diplomacy to when Brandon came asking for his sister instead of just roasting them like the Mad King did. He had two options talk it out or start a war in the most horrific way possible and he still needed Tywin to pick the right choice. LOL
Absolutely. Tywin would've helped that out so much more than the Mad King did. I still don't understand how he wasn't talked down by his court to NOT burn the Starks.
TheBattProductions after the debacle at Duskendale where he was captured, Aerys filled his court with yes-men and more importantly gave the Guild Steve Bannon-like powers to advise him.
TheBattProductions after the debacle at Duskendale where he was captured, Aerys filled his court with yes-men and more importantly gave the Guild Steve Bannon-like powers to advise him.
4:34 This Makes no sense. Rhaegar hooked up with Lyanna to create the 3 heads of the dragon Because Elia wasn’t strong enough to produce anymore children. Cersei seems capable enough to make multiple children with Rhaegar considering she produced 3 mildly healthy incest babies with Jamie (Not counting that stillbirth from the show).
I think she would've tried, but remember that this whole WHAT IF starts with Aerys saying yes to Tywin's marriage proposal, probably keeping their relationship better. The Mad King only elected Jaime to the KG because he wanted to irritate him/keep his kid close by because he distrusted Tywin.
TheBattProductions That's true, but I still think there would have been some resentment and rivalry between Aerys and Twyin. And if Tywin remained at court with Joanna, and Aerys still pursued his infatuation with her, it could still cause a rift. It wasn't just Aerys refusing to marry Cersei to Rhaegar that caused so many problems. But really, I think it could have gone either way. The problem I think is Aerys' unpredictability.
When Rhaegar gave Lyanna his favor at the Tourney then Tywin would have taken that as a huge insult! Just like it did the Martells. Tourneys were common back then, so one would have been inevitable. That could easily have made Tywin turn against the crown. One way or another Rhaegar would have made his preference for Lyanna public, as that was his whole intention when he did it to Elia.
Meli M Rhaegar wouldn't done it, if he was married to Cersei. Only thing why he 'kidnapped' and married Lyanna was because he needed 3 children just like Targaryen dragon have 3 heads, but his wife Elia Martell couldn't have more children. He wouldn't had that kind of trouble if he was wed to Cersei
Ahti Kõks not really, R gave that crown before he knew that elia couldnt have anymore children. Cersie wouldve taken it as a slight. Hated Rhaegar, probly want some revenge but tywin wouldnt have rebelled or anything cause his daughter was still queen.
Even if Cersi and Jaime had their bastards literally no one would know. The Baratheons were known for their dark hair, but Targaryens aren’t. They have light hair, sometimes blonde like Princess Alyssa Targaryen (Viserys and Daemon’s mother)
here is an interesting and, I think quite, impactful one, what if Brandon Stark did not spare Littlefinger in their duel? Littlefinger being removed from the game at that early stage would likely change a lot. Roberts rebelion would probably still happen but after that? Littlefinger had been pulling so many strings that Petyr not being on the board could change pretty much everything
Matt Mcd Where's the Black Water? I'm not good when it comes to places. What differences would come about if he *were* to stay there? ...if you don't mind my asking. I just love the Hound and about died when I thought we'd *lost* him.
Cersei Lannister & Rhagear Targaryen would have made an awesome couple!! Cersei always liked Rhaegar & thought he was handsome, she never really liked Robert that much!
Yeah this is about accurate. With Tying with the Mad King, he would still be mad if not jealous of Tying since too many rumors were being spread of him being the true king. However I think with this act Ayres would be alot calmer, it also helps that Py celle would also keep reminding him that the Lion is his greatest ally. Now Rhea gar would most likely still try and take Lyanna Stark as he still would see her as the woman of beauty, similar to the original timeline. But I agree the Rebellion would have 2 scenarios and both would end in Roberts and his Rebellions death. For one the rebellion wasnt just by chance that the Mad King was given that title. His actions the way he looked the way he presented himself made the people question him. However it was the Starks deaths is what really drove the sympathizers as well as the other banners to open arms. However with Tying present and Py celle he would have a clearer head in some cases, but also the people would still know for a fact that war with the crown would be a war with Tywin.(going off the narrative that Tywin was the true ruler of the seven kingdoms) So the opinions of the crown would be mixed at best. Now lets say Rebellion does happen and Twyin somehow lets the Mad king do his thing. The Rebellion would be crushed swiftly as the Lannisters and Targaryeon forces would be too much to handle. It would be simply a small resurgency to Tying no question. Which IMO would make the Bolton's power play much easier (But thats for someother opinion) The second one is simply put the Rebellion wouldnt happen at all. Tywin simply knows how to run a kingdom far better and would have calmed the Starks down (mainly Brandons hot head) easily. They would most likely send a squad to the tower of joy and retrieve Rheagar and Lyssa. A's for punishment is up to the king at that point however I dont think an exectuion of any kind would be made as The Lion and the Dragon would be married and allined but it would have some old tensions return. Lyssa would be return to a very resentful but faithfulish Robert Baratheon. Brandon would Be warden of the North and the Seven Kingdoms would be in a better place. ALso with that in place its likely the baby Jon Snow would be killed by Order of the king or would be another unwanted Bastard. Either way poor Jon is screwed. Alot of things would change however with that covered I have no idea how they would react to the whitewalkers. Also would Khal Drogo still have the balls to try and invade the seven kingdoms?
ivanbluecool Then Ned would still be in the north until the death of king robert, then stannis sends letter to informing ned about cersei's incest, ned then joins the war. At this point no BWB, No king of the north, the vale would join or not the war? If theon never taken winterfell then theon would still be doing ironborn raiding just boring, but if theon taken the black with jon snow at the beginning then the ironborn still raids the north and then raids lannisport.
I think it would've probably helped, but Baelish was a wounded man mentally after that fight. I think his whole life of being treated as the little guy culminated in that moment when he finally took a stand. Brandon was probably too gloaty (but to be fair - Baelish did try to kill him in a duel), but I think Petyr was going to leave that duel with vengeance.
Maggie the frog’s prophecy means that everything stays roughly the same. The 3 kids probably die young and Rhaegar divorces her for Lyanna, kicking off Robert’s rebellion.
We can already tell from the books that Cersei was also infatuated w/Rheagar as any and every maiden wanted to be w/him. He was very handsome and played romantic and sad music, which women loved. Cersei talks about in book 4 of her drawing pictures of her w/Rhaegar and if Jaime found them she lied and said it was other people. Cersei was very upset when it turned out the marriage proposal was rejected by Aerys. I think Cersei and Jaime's love affair would've definitely ended and Cersei would've had a normal love relationship w/Rhaegar, and then Jaime could've moved on to actually court other noble ladies, but hopefully not have to marry Lysa Tully as he'd be pretty unhappy if he did. I could never see that going down, but it's possible Tywin would've forced him too. But then maybe he'd still pre-preemptively join the Kingsguard just to get out of it, and live a life kind of like Tyrion fucking any whore he wanted. :)
Cersei might kill Lyanna before birth, she wouldn't have anyone threatening her children's position. For the 'Jaimie in the Kingsguard' part, it was Cersei's idea for them to be closer since she was in King's Landing at the time. She told Jaime to ask for a place and her plan backfired when Tywin, slighted by the appointment, went back to Casterly Rock with her. Quite frankly, I think that if Cersei had married Rhaegar, something would have happenned to Aerys quickly following the wedding. Aerys was already slipping into madness, he was already suspiscious of his son and Tywin. Then the Defiance of Duskendale happened and Aerys was persuaded that Tywin and Rhaegar did nothing to save him. There would have been a chance that Cersei would feel threatened as well and would go to Pycelle to solve their problem to protect her family and her position. I also think that we would get no Jon Snow at all. So we would have Rhaegar as King, Cersei as Queen, Tywin as Hand (he was doing a good work so I don't think Rhaegar would have dismiss him), one of Cersei's children appointed as Lord of Casterly Rock, Lyanna probably wed to Robert Baratheon, Viserys would still be in Westeros with Dany (depending on the moment Aerys would have been killed). And I have a feeling that Viserys would have a say about the legitimacy of his nephews or nieces... Just saying ^^ Excellent video as always! Thanks for sharing your point of view and for making us think about it too! Love from France (and stop buying Funko Pops!)
You don't seem to cover how Tywin would have reacted to Rhaegar choosing Lyanna over his daughter at Harrenhal. That likely would have been a deep wound to the Lannister's pride and would have significant influence with how he handled the Starks when they came looking for their sister.
Cersei was also the aggressor in that gross ass relationship so maybe some distance would do well for him. I wonder what would have happened if Lysa hadn’t been forced to have an abortion and her dad forced Littlefinger to marry her? Would she be so crazy? This is kind of from the books but it’s implied that she looses her mind as a result of that pregnancy loss and then all the stillborns/miscarriages she had with Jon Arryn. That’s why Catlin was so shocked when she finally saw her sister again.
The only thing I wanna see Cersai do is die!◀ preferably at the hands of Jaime- thus, Kingslayer becomes Queenslayer🙌 So that's Ashara Dayne- hmm; I believe you're the only host that has shown a picture. There seems to be a split in the GOT community i.e. R+L=J vs. N+A=J I never really understood the latter (I haven't read the books....YET) but now that you've shown a visual, I get it. btw, "squished like a potato?" hee hee Enjoy your vids- Appreciate your hard work. *Always* a pleasure Thanx! 🐇Happy Easter🐰
STACEY SMYTH Thanx Stacey! Coming from you I'll take that as a compliment bc if I remember correctly you've read the books ☺ This prophecy, that her reign would be short and she'd be replaced by someone younger, didn't that witch tell her that? For the longest time I figured that younger, more attractive woman was Marjorie, didn't you? Out of curiosity, are you one of the R+L=J believers or N+A=J? I know I don't believe the rape theory◀ I think Littlefinger just told Sansa that that because, well, he's Littlefinger!
Hahahah. You're hilarious. Yeah, It's roughly an accurate photo. Just a photo from the web, but it's loosely how she appears. I don't buy A + N = J at all. It's definitely R + L = J. Haha. THANK YOU for your nice words Cammy :)
R+L=J exactly. N+A? *Maybe* in the books, but the show definitely means R+L. ⏫⏫ *Some* of the book-readers get TOO caught up in the books! Let. It. Go. Watch the show!! 😀
I don't think the twincest thing would have developed that early bc when cersei visited maggy she was sort of expecting and excited to marry rhaegar and besides she looked 13
I've thought about it, but consider myself to be just "another guy." Do you think anybody (like yourself) would be interested in that kind of thing? I don't plan on making money from it, just the idea that someone would wear a shirt I made would be amazing.
TheBattProductions yeah man your channel is growing fast and its really entertaining to watch and sooner or later comments would probably be flooding with do you have tshirts where can i buy it and all that glorious stuff like that.
To have a targaraen, Lannister, Tyell alliance during Robert Rebellion. Would definitely end the Starks, Arryn, Tully and Baratheon, To be honest . That’s a overpowering combine army right there
I know I’m kinda late to this party but, love your video however I purpose a different scenario because remember Lysa wasn’t really seen as the ideal marriage candidate at the time. So instead of Jamie to Lysa what if Tywin purposed to Prince Doran Jamie and Elia. Or even crazier Jamie to Lyanna?
This is one of the most intriguing things in the books and I decided to write a fanfiction alternate universe where an older Lannister daughter of Tywin married Rhaegar. As of now, I just published some part of their married life and I ain't done cause I'm tackling the Defiance of Duskendale which starts a more paranoid Aerys Targaryen!
He did that becasue of some prophasy. or the fact that the Mad King tried to blow up Kings Landing also they were looking for a way to replace Ares early. Also Balish gets hung for trying to stir up trouble. ok you like Tywin Lanister so much. what if he finds out that Lord Balish manufacted the feud between his house and the Starks very early on?
Jamie might marry Elia Martell as his mother wanted and Tywin may want to honour his wife’s wish . And maybe Jamie takes a position in the small council and have his little relation with Cersie going on .
The tourney at harrenhal is what led to Raygar and Lyanna meeting if he's married to Cersei he has three kids and if Tywin is still the hand they most likely don't over throw the King which is why they had the tourney at harrenhal to begin with they where going to start plotting
Tywin's proposal was rejected because of two things: yes, because Aerys *was* that arrogant, that he still considered even a High Lord's daughter (the wealthiest house in the realm, too), the daughter of a 'servant'- &, the other, more important reason being that he was jealous & even fearful of Tywin's power & reputation - dude was paranoid as hell (he grew spiteful as a result) - I'm actually trying to imagine under what circumstances Aerys *would* accept the marriage, as much as the 'what if' of potential consequences. There's something I haven't seen people taking into consideration in the overall analysis of Tywin; yes, he made a good Hand in some regards, but he was ruthless in a way that was only ever going to earn his house enemies after he was gone- one of the things he did in his tenure, was his reversal of many, most or possibly all of Aegon V's laws that were meant to help the poor- so, the rich & powerful liked him being in charge- it probably was better than the increasingly erratic king, truth be told - but to say there would be no, or next to no problems if Tywin remained Hand is perhaps over-simplifying. Also- I was initially thrown when you mentioned the Jaime-Lysa match, but I remembered it was a thing- & looked at it again. However, two things: Lysa wasn't the unattractive nutter back then- she was rather pretty & lively, if a little moody- however, Jaime spent the time at Riverrun following the Blackfish around (like you said, he was still stuck on Cersei- but I think he also found Lysa's uncle more interesting) - which is a bit strange, when I think about those S 6 scenes...
Critical issue: Cersei's prophecy: Rhaegar and Cersei would've likely had 3 kids together, not just two because of infertility. Still blonde. They would've died young likely of natural causes, causing Rhaegar to annul and remarry to get his prophecy babies. But the timing would've been different and thus hey wouldn't have ran away with Lyanna. Entire story changes and ice and fire needs to be found elsewhere. Possibly from Ned's kid (Robb, with Ashara) being legitimate and marrying Dany. Possibly Rhaegar remarries Lyanna, who also gets annulled to Robert, thus either no war (especially if he legitimately loses her love), or he doesn't have support for a more just war.
You mentionned that the Lannister house is your favorite and I like them as well. Would there be a scenario that would let the Lannister be and stay on top?
I love House Lannister. by far my favorite. Honestly, I don't know...I suppose they'd always have an outside shot at least because they're rich and Tywin exists, but the exact pathway...hmm...
I'm pretty sure the Lannisters would have joined the rebellion completely if Rhaegar had slighted Cersei by running away with Lyanna. Perhaps they would have created an alliance with the Starks by promising Cersei to Ned after Rhaegar was killed (under the assumption Lyanna lived for Robert, as they thought it was against her will). This would have created peace between the three remaining power houses.
No fuckin way those two would have gotten on. I mean Rhaegar was bordering with depression and off in his own world. Very sentimental and brooding and shit. Cersei is messed up in the head. Devoured by all sorts of jealous, arrogant, malicious paranoia. Jon definitely has some streak of his real father.
Cersei is messed up of course, but she probably wouldn't have been as bad as she ended up being with Rhaegar. But yes: I don't think they would've been perfect, hah.
Развлечения
Oh good god...Jamie and Lysa. Can you even imagine the combination?
puchy110 it will end with one died lysa.
can't say that's entirely bad
Jaime would throw himself from the moon door.
but Jaime and lysa wouldn't be at the eyrie... perhaps He would find a way 😝
He would travel to the moon door JUST to throw himself out of it.
hehehe
Also: Rhaegar went looking elsewhere because of his interpretation of the prophecy saying the dragon had to have three heads. And Elia couldn't have more children. Cersei doesn't have that problem.
Cersei could develop that problem however. If you believe in Rhaegar's prophecy seeking ways like I do, I believe Rhaegar NEEDED a Stark to produce the third head (the song of ice and fire).
That's a bit of a stretch, though? We know that Cersei had three children in "the original timeline", so unless Cersei is an entirely different person in this alternate line, there's no reason why she would suddenly become unable to bear children. Also, if I recall correctly, the case wasn't in fact that Elia COULDN'T have more children, but that her health was too poor to have a somewhat decent chance of surviving the ordeal. But that's another matter :)
As I said, I think you're stretching it a bit because you want it to fit the theory :) We can all be guilty of that. It took that last confirmation in season 6 before I reluctantly had to come to terms with the fact that the show went with R+L=J, and I still hold out hopes that GRRM will make it different in the books (they HAVE said that the books and show are going to be wildly different from here on in, but I agree that it's a straw I'm grasping at).
Mark P But L + R = J kinda has to happen, because even though the books and the show go differently, the end game is the same. That is at least what I have heard about. It goes differently on the show, because spoilers for the books and it cost a lot to make them, so they need to do someways different and quicker to reach to the ending, which is the same in both books and show. Plus L + R = J has been hinted in the books since the first book. And do you think that GRRM would be quiet about something that he doesnt like in the show. He has already voiced that he is angry how they brought Benjen Stark back as Coldhands or in general, when he was supposed be dead and stay dead. Plus he wouldnt let the show beging or continue if its a fanfiction, because he said that he hates fanfiction about ASoIaF.
I tend to agree that whatever massive event happens on the show will probably happen in the books, too.
GRRM asked Dan and Dave who Jon's mother was as a test to see if they would be good enough to take on the series. Clearly they got the answer correct so it must be R+L=J
A few points:
1. Lysa only became mad because she lost so many babies, she was described as being sweet and beautiful before all of her miscarrieges. Also she never really loved Jon Arryn but Jaime and Lysa might perhaps develope some feelings.
2. Rhaegar was obsessed with the three-headed dragon and/or Azor Ahai theory. Elia could only have two children and if she had a third it would kill her, Cersei had three children so I dont think that Rhaegar would have the need to go with Lyanna.
Lysa's story is so sad and tragic. I mean she became wildly unstable, but we didn't get to "see" her fall.
@@thegreenmanofnorwichoh we saw her fall
This
The same with Viserys we only see them after their fall @@thegreenmanofnorwich
What if Roose Bolton pulled out when it came to Ramsay
So many starving dogs...
💀💀💀💀💀
TheBattProductions nah they'll just eat deer
His son Domeric (Who Ramsay killed in the books) would still be alive. Also Theon would’ve been captured by Ser Rodrik after the siege of winterfell in the books, and in the show maybe some other Northern house takes winterfell.
What if Roose just killed him when his mother brought Ramsay to meet his daddy?
The Lannisters are pretty much targaryen wannabes. They hated that they couldn't get it, so they got them out
Lannisters were powerful kings with a massive army when the Targaryens were a very minor noble family in Valyria
God Emperor of Mankind 3.0 with dragons
God Emperor of Mankind 3.0 Then they got fucked in the ass by Aegon so... 🤪
the lannisters are far more superior
@@70spoem uh no hun
What if Loras Tyrell married Sansa Stark before Tywin ruined the plan.
You mean the older brother, of wants his name... the cripple... Willas that's it! Yeah Sansa thought it was going to be Loras cuz she thought he was cute for a bit but it was going to be Willas Tyrell, heir to highgarden.
Brian Hall that's only in the books
King Moses
THANK you! 😋 I was having a "who the hell?" moment- (I haven't read the books)
Wasn't it Willas and his puppies in the books? He couldn't walk cause a Martell f'ed his legs up or something.
What if Loras married Renly.
maybe what if tywin's wife survive the chilbirth ? what i mean is how tywin could have been different.
bartlomiej markiewicz
....& how (or if) Cersai could've been different◀ towards Tyrion I mean. She's so superficial I have a feeling she would've been judgmental towards him regardless (just because he's an imp) and the fact that their mom died during childbirth was just a convenient excuse for her to judge.
Well wasn't she trying to match Cercie and Jamie to Quentyn and Elia respectively with their mom at the time? I would be very happy if Joanna loved Tyrion as a son just to see how jealous Cerci got.
If Joanna hadn't survived childbirth then Cersei and Jamie would've never had children. Joanna found out about them and separated them to opposite ends of the Rock before she died. She was also planning to marry at least one of them into the Martell family at the time (Obeyn thinks that they were both to be married into their family but also mentions there was ONE other bed on the boat for someone of high birth. So possibly the mothers agreed to marry their families thogether and were just going to see which coupling worked better together and decide then), which might have separated them further.
That's a good point.
The capacity of Tywin Lannister to harm his children's upbringing is being seriously understimated
In the books,Cersie was crazy for Rhaeger,based on her p.o.v. in Feast of Crows.
True but it may be a reflection of Robert, obsessed with the memory/idea of someone when they aren't there to sully it. She may have ended up being just as upset that Rhaegar preferred books to her as Robert preferred women.
@@rhiannongreen2642 unlikely, craving woman as opposed to your wife is very different than preffering books
Cersei said once that she always felt that the wrong man came back from the Trident....
I don't think Rhaegar would have went for lyanna if he had married Cersei. He needed 3 kids for his prophecy and was planning on getting them all from ellia but she was only able to give him 2. If she got pregnant again it would kill her. So then he was forced to find another mother and Lyanna was the one he chose. If he had married Cersei she would have been able to give him 3 kids easy, so he would have had no need for the Stark
That's potentially true, but I believe personally that the 3rd child being from a Stark was important to Rhaegar.
+TheBattProductions Why Stark? (Show watcher only) Nothing in the prophesies of the Prince That Was Promised[Salt&Smoke,BleedingStar] nor Azor Ahai [Lion,NissaNissa] nor The Stallion That Mounts the World [GoodRider?] actually says what family the great warrior will come from. The Targaryen's are simply attaching a falsity by some wood's witch to the prophesy.
Ice and Fire dude. Just as simple. "HIS is the song of Ice and Fire" and foolish Rhaegar thought "My Aegon is totally safe here, gonna give him a half-brother of ICE to be his fella!"Poor, *poor* Aegon and Rhaenys and Elia. So by default, it now falls to said half-brother.
+ Tonto Del Pitillo I have never read the books but I don't think anything you typed is in any book at all. Rhaegar was dead at the Battle of the Trident so he didn't think or give any baby to anyone. Your facts are specious if even existent at all. Last you have ignored what the prophesies say. None of them talk about the Targaryens, Starks or any other house in Westros. If you have proof otherwise; I will accept that. But your simply twisting George R.R. Martin's title of the book series to fit what you want to say. That is not proof.
What.... how.... why... are you stupid? 1 yes a song of ice and fire is IN the books and a big deal AND on the cover of the books. THATS WHY ITS ON THE COVER!!!! It's in the book and important!! No one ever titles an award winning series something that has nothing to do with anything in the actual story. And 2 if you've never read the books you have not right or authority to tell anyone what is in said books or not. 3 no, no prophecy EXPLICITLY STATES that a targaryan and a stark will Auckland have a kid to save the world from some ice zombies. No the prophecy talked about a song of ice and fire and rhaegar somehow through his studies and research tied it to another prophecy about 3 heads of the Dragon. Now tell me the 3 heads of the Dragon has nothing to do with targs! And with his dad rhaegar could easily associate targs with fire on many levels. Plus who represents ice more than the starks. Also one of those 2 prophecies was foretold at a targ palace to targs during a fire that killed a lot of targs AND it was the same time and place rhaegar was born. So go ahead fucking tell me that the targs have nothing to do with it.
This changes a lot. Rhaegar most likely doesn't run off with Lyanna. He believed very much that the dragon has three heads, and Elia was only able to give two children, Cersei as we know has had three. The best way to have Rhaegar marry Cersei is not to rely on a rare moment of clarity from Aerys II, but rather have him killed in the Defiance of Duskendale, Rhaegar ascends the Iron Throne and comes under the influence of then Hand of the King Tywin Lannister who arranges the marriage.
See I think that because Rhaegar was so obsessed with the Three-Headed prophecy, I think having a Stark mixed with his blood was very important (not just Elia being unable to have another child).
Adding to the outcomes of Cersei marrying Rhaegar would be Daenerys never hatching the dragons and being hidden away nor developing this Iron Throne obsession. I'm just saying. I mean Rheagar would have heirs to the throne and she would have no claim over it whatsoever.
but viserys and dany wouldn't have left kingslanding in the first place, they would have grown up in westeros
Dany would have remained the sweet innocent girl she is like the first Daenerys before her.
@@archenforever7264 let's assume if cersei and rhaegar only had sons no daughter, then dany would marry eldest son, dany would be daughter in law of cersei 😂 😂 wow
You missed Dany probably marrying her brother Viserys as the mad king would have probably forced it or some other uncomfortable marriage with C+R kids
I'm surprised Robert never considered a betrothal between Joffrey or Tommen and Daenerys. In Robert's boots, I'd prefer to have Daenerys married to one of my sons and under my familial authority, as opposed to what actually happened.
Jennifer Brewer He'd still have to worry about Viserys. He at the time was making a claim to the throne, not Dany.
@@jenniferbrewer5370 Roberts entire character is hating the targaryens
Why does Cersei marrying Rhaegar change Jaime's desire to join the King's Guard? Yes, Cersei was the one who talked him into it at the end by saying they would be together, but Jaime was already toying with the dream of joining because he did believe in Knighthood once and aspired to be a great knight. He still thinks about how amazing Ser Arthur Dayne was.
What if at the end of Robert's Rebellion Ned Stark sits on the Iron Throne instead of Robert?
He would have been a horrible king too, but it would've been a different kind of horrible. Just look at his performance as Hand.
Alex Martínez Ned never wanted the throne in any case, he was pretty content with being lord of the North. The six southern kingdoms would have conspired to kill him anyway , as Northern values and religion don't wash in the South.
if anyone is fit to rule the seven kingdoms it should be Tywin Lanister
TheKingInTheNorth You should rename your username to the Kim in the north
He didn't have the blood claim, and, most important, was a northerner. That means potentially the Faith against him, because he was not anointed and named in the Light of the Seven when he was born. I can see a religious uprising being set up by Targaryen loyalists.
In the book Cersei was in love with rhagar more than jaime she used to fantasize about it.
What if Jamie weds Elia Martell because Rhaegar married Cersei
Finally, someone who sees Ned and Ashara. Ned & Ashara for the win!
politically useless for Rickard's southron ambitions
I think Tywin would have helped Rhaegsr depose The Mad King. He'd have had more incentive to trust Rhaegar.
now you got to do what if Ned marries ashara
Hahahahaha.
HOORAY!
It's more like a short term explanations?
That's a great one Jason! (especially since I've been trashing the N +A = J theory so much)
TheBattProductions You don't always need to create what if video based on your fan's comments.
Create video that is very interesting like what if vary's were a Dany supporter from the start?
I know I don't. But I like hearing what people have to say in the comments. I think a good creator listens to what fellow fans think! :)
What if Jon had inherited the Targaryen coloring instead of taking after his mother?
You mean if Jon was known to be a Targaryen?
Actually, not quite. Yes, him being a Targaryen would be pretty obvious with the Targaryen looks but what I meant was basically this situation: Tower of Joy happens as it does but instead of being able to easily pass as a Stark, Jon has the platinum hair and purple eyes of a Targaryen, making it almost impossible to pass him of as Ned's. What would then happen with baby Jon and how it would affect his story arc as well as the whole situation in Westeros in present time, because obviously bringing him to Winterfell is rather unlikely now...
Hope this could clear it up a bit, I'm bad at explanaitions ^^'
Sapphire Ruby Stargate when Targaryens marry outside Valyrian families the babies tend to appear non-Valyrian. Of fhe Great Bastards only Daemon Blackfyre and Shiera Seastar resembled full Targaryens.
If Jon did have the Targaryen appearance however unlikely it would be, Ned might have just left him with the Daynes but arranged him to be fostered at Winterfell at age earlier than usual.
as the Daynes are from Dorne Jon 's bastardy would not really be a problem and he might grow up with more confidence and strength
Sapphire Ruby Stargate ashara has some Targaryen traits so maybe he would openly say Jon is her child instead of never saying a mother
SantomPh Wrong, most times the Targaryen married outside valyrian families the children resembled their valyrian children and not their non valyrian parents
The reason Rhaegar had a child with Lyanna was because he wanted to fulfill the prophecy of Azor Ahai which involves three children ; Visenya, Aegon, Rhaenys. Elia wasn't fit to have another child so he ran off with Lyanna Stark and then fell in love with her and married her. I think if he married Cersei, they would have three children and they would've lived happily ever after. Jon wouldn't have been born, instead his other son Aegon would've fulfilled the prophecy. Either, Daenarys and Viserys would've gotten married or Dany and Aegon would've gotten married. Rhaegar would've been King, but there would be no song of ice & fire. Brandon would've married Catelyn and Ned probably would've married Ashara Dayne. Lyanna would've married Robert. There would be no war, no Starks killed, and most probably no dragons. I think the Azor Ahai thing would've worked out nicely because Rhaegar knew it would happen eventually.
Aerys II rejecting Tywin’s offer could also be that the former did not want a possible alliance between Rhaegar and Tywin. Remember that Aerys had a strained relationship with his son. He was suspicious of his actions that he might overthrow him.
Thankyou for this video!❤☺
Thanks for another great What If video... Keep them coming Kevin.
Thanks man!
BTW: I just bought ANOTHER Valyrian Steel item for my collection...I'm up to 6. I'm going to sell my Oathkeeper to justify this purchase, but I bought Khal Drogo's arakh! (for $125.00...you can't blame me at a price that good!)
No don't sell oathkeeper expand not exchange Ser Kevin
actually: you say that cersei marrying rhaegar wouldn't have changed lyanna and rhaegar being a thing.. but i beg to differ. it's heavily implied that rhaegar sought out lyanna in order to have another child. yes, he may have loved her, and may have loved her wild spirit, but since he believed in the prophecy of azor ahai, and in 'the dragon has three heads', he sought three children. and elia, after the birth of aegon, was not fit to give birth to more children. and that's why rhaegar sought other women out. if cersei, instead, married rhaegar? i don't doubt that they'd have three children, unless it was rhaegar who actually was having the baby conceivng issues. and this, as a result, wouldn't lead to Robert's Rebellion, as rhaegar wouldn't steal away lyanna. thus, by aerys refusing to wed cersei to his son, out of fear of being usurped, has ironically lead... to the whole targaryan dynasty collapsing.
great video again I been a big fan of the what if videos another home run keep them coming please :)
Thanks Cody!!!!
I'm going to keep doing them for a little while :)
Love your channel and this "what if" concept! Keep it up :)
Tywin would have joined the rebellion sooner after hearing Rhaegar cheated.
Do what if Daemon blackfyre wins the battle of redgrass field
kawaii gamer the rightful king daemon and his descendants would face 5 targaryan rebellions
Mk Injustice of course
Ohhh that'd be nice! That's a books-only one that I don't usually do. I'll think about it, Kawaii!
TheBattProductions yes thank you
kawaii gamer he would have to face rebellion eventually, especially from the Dornish who supported Daeron the Good and are notoriously difficult to put down. Also each kingdom split into two during the war, those wounds will open again and again with Daemon winning.
What if Aemon Targaryen had became King of Westeros?
thank the old gods a new video to sate my appetite also great video as always kevin
Hahaha.
Thanks a lot Yahia! :)
Jaime went into the kingsguard because Cersei convinced him to do it to avoid marrying Lysa and Cersei believed she would stay in kings landing
If Cersei married Rhaegar, then it would be Rhaegar fighting boar.
Best comment ever
Hahahaha
Doctor Emmett L. Brown Cersei didn't actually mind getting Rheagar or even Robert ( pre-fat blob). While we do not know what Rheagar would have done for her , she lost taste in Robert after he muttered Lyanna's name on their wedding night
But how does it explain that Rhaegar cannot fight boar? I'm pretty sure he is skilled enough
SantomPh I thought Cersei was crazy for Rhaegar. I mean when she thinks or talks about him in her chapters. haha
What if house stark ancestry weapon was Lucille lol
Haha
I like how you brought up how Tywin would have brought diplomacy to when Brandon came asking for his sister instead of just roasting them like the Mad King did. He had two options talk it out or start a war in the most horrific way possible and he still needed Tywin to pick the right choice. LOL
Absolutely. Tywin would've helped that out so much more than the Mad King did. I still don't understand how he wasn't talked down by his court to NOT burn the Starks.
TheBattProductions after the debacle at Duskendale where he was captured, Aerys filled his court with yes-men and more importantly gave the Guild Steve Bannon-like powers to advise him.
TheBattProductions after the debacle at Duskendale where he was captured, Aerys filled his court with yes-men and more importantly gave the Guild Steve Bannon-like powers to advise him.
What if the two hounds and one Bolton soldier do not vanish when Brienne rescues Sansa...?
Haha.
4:34 This Makes no sense. Rhaegar hooked up with Lyanna to create the 3 heads of the dragon Because Elia wasn’t strong enough to produce anymore children. Cersei seems capable enough to make multiple children with Rhaegar considering she produced 3 mildly healthy incest babies with Jamie (Not counting that stillbirth from the show).
hello from Brazil, I love your channel💙
So basically no Sansa.. amazing. This is the timeline we deserved
uh no. she would be born, but to Brandon and Cat
I think Cersei would still have convinced Jaime to join the Kingsguard, and not marry Lysa.
I think she would've tried, but remember that this whole WHAT IF starts with Aerys saying yes to Tywin's marriage proposal, probably keeping their relationship better. The Mad King only elected Jaime to the KG because he wanted to irritate him/keep his kid close by because he distrusted Tywin.
TheBattProductions That's true, but I still think there would have been some resentment and rivalry between Aerys and Twyin. And if Tywin remained at court with Joanna, and Aerys still pursued his infatuation with her, it could still cause a rift. It wasn't just Aerys refusing to marry Cersei to Rhaegar that caused so many problems.
But really, I think it could have gone either way. The problem I think is Aerys' unpredictability.
Could you do What if Qyburn died in Harrenhal?
Adamantium7
There'd be no frankenmount for starters 😀
Adamantium7 I doubt much would change
That background music is fitting. But it makes me wonder how much you would like the soundtrack of a videogame named Tyranny.
When got ends i'd love to see another tv shows based on your "what if videos"
Very interesting videos. I think this story more then any other makes you think what if
Thanks a lot my friend!
That's so awkward. Ned marries the sister of a man killed in a different timeline.
Hahaha. Extremely. Life is full of those intricacies.
I think the reason why Lysa Tully went mad was when Hoster Tully aborted Petyr's baby, causing her to go crazy.
jaime would've still joined the kingsguard cause he'd want to be close to cersei
When Rhaegar gave Lyanna his favor at the Tourney then Tywin would have taken that as a huge insult! Just like it did the Martells. Tourneys were common back then, so one would have been inevitable. That could easily have made Tywin turn against the crown. One way or another Rhaegar would have made his preference for Lyanna public, as that was his whole intention when he did it to Elia.
Meli M Rhaegar wouldn't done it, if he was married to Cersei. Only thing why he 'kidnapped' and married Lyanna was because he needed 3 children just like Targaryen dragon have 3 heads, but his wife Elia Martell couldn't have more children. He wouldn't had that kind of trouble if he was wed to Cersei
Ahti Kõks not really, R gave that crown before he knew that elia couldnt have anymore children. Cersie wouldve taken it as a slight. Hated Rhaegar, probly want some revenge but tywin wouldnt have rebelled or anything cause his daughter was still queen.
We'd be calling it Tywin's Rebellion now, and Cersei would probably still be Queen.
So basically if Jaime still joined the Kingsguard (unlikely) then there would’ve been one hell of a Love Triangle
Even if Cersi and Jaime had their bastards literally no one would know. The Baratheons were known for their dark hair, but Targaryens aren’t. They have light hair, sometimes blonde like Princess Alyssa Targaryen (Viserys and Daemon’s mother)
What if Joffrey would have accepted Rob Starks peace terms?
here is an interesting and, I think quite, impactful one, what if Brandon Stark did not spare Littlefinger in their duel?
Littlefinger being removed from the game at that early stage would likely change a lot.
Roberts rebelion would probably still happen but after that?
Littlefinger had been pulling so many strings that Petyr not being on the board could change pretty much everything
If we take the Prophecy in account, then messed-up things between the Lannisters and the Targaryen will happen regardless.
Attention to everyone with HBO: Game of Thrones S1 is now on demand! 😁
WOO!!!
Thanks for heads up
I would love to see a series surrounding the Mad King
that's actually pretty freaking awesome
Love these videos , what if the hound stays at the black water ?
Thanks Matt!
I like it!!! I'll write that suggestion down, my friend
Matt Mcd
Where's the Black Water? I'm not good when it comes to places.
What differences would come about if he *were* to stay there? ...if you don't mind my asking.
I just love the Hound and about died when I thought we'd *lost* him.
Hey I know I'm a little late here but I just thought of a what-if:
What if Bran were never pushed outta the window- would he still have these powers?
Cersei Lannister & Rhagear Targaryen would have made an awesome couple!! Cersei always liked Rhaegar & thought he was handsome, she never really liked Robert that much!
In my opinion i always thought that rhaegar went with lyanna to fulfill the prophecy and get a visenya
I kind of feel if Cersei marries Raegar, they'd have the best looking babies. Cersei always loves Raegar and admires him
Rhaegar was fond of elia martell but never loved her but she loved him. Then the harrenhal and the whole runaway with lyanna romance?
Yeah this is about accurate.
With Tying with the Mad King, he would still be mad if not jealous of Tying since too many rumors were being spread of him being the true king. However I think with this act Ayres would be alot calmer, it also helps that Py celle would also keep reminding him that the Lion is his greatest ally.
Now Rhea gar would most likely still try and take Lyanna Stark as he still would see her as the woman of beauty, similar to the original timeline.
But I agree the Rebellion would have 2 scenarios and both would end in Roberts and his Rebellions death.
For one the rebellion wasnt just by chance that the Mad King was given that title. His actions the way he looked the way he presented himself made the people question him. However it was the Starks deaths is what really drove the sympathizers as well as the other banners to open arms.
However with Tying present and Py celle he would have a clearer head in some cases, but also the people would still know for a fact that war with the crown would be a war with Tywin.(going off the narrative that Tywin was the true ruler of the seven kingdoms) So the opinions of the crown would be mixed at best.
Now lets say Rebellion does happen and Twyin somehow lets the Mad king do his thing. The Rebellion would be crushed swiftly as the Lannisters and Targaryeon forces would be too much to handle. It would be simply a small resurgency to Tying no question. Which IMO would make the Bolton's power play much easier (But thats for someother opinion)
The second one is simply put the Rebellion wouldnt happen at all. Tywin simply knows how to run a kingdom far better and would have calmed the Starks down (mainly Brandons hot head) easily. They would most likely send a squad to the tower of joy and retrieve Rheagar and Lyssa. A's for punishment is up to the king at that point however I dont think an exectuion of any kind would be made as The Lion and the Dragon would be married and allined but it would have some old tensions return.
Lyssa would be return to a very resentful but faithfulish Robert Baratheon. Brandon would Be warden of the North and the Seven Kingdoms would be in a better place. ALso with that in place its likely the baby Jon Snow would be killed by Order of the king or would be another unwanted Bastard. Either way poor Jon is screwed.
Alot of things would change however with that covered I have no idea how they would react to the whitewalkers. Also would Khal Drogo still have the balls to try and invade the seven kingdoms?
what if ned never became hand of the king or what if theon never took control of winterfell or took the black
ivanbluecool Then Ned would still be in the north until the death of king robert, then stannis sends letter to informing ned about cersei's incest, ned then joins the war. At this point no BWB, No king of the north, the vale would join or not the war?
If theon never taken winterfell then theon would still be doing ironborn raiding just boring, but if theon taken the black with jon snow at the beginning then the ironborn still raids the north and then raids lannisport.
Thinking on Baelish (sp?) what do you think if in the duel, Brandon Stark was bit gentler in his defeat instead of scarring him?
I think it would've probably helped, but Baelish was a wounded man mentally after that fight. I think his whole life of being treated as the little guy culminated in that moment when he finally took a stand. Brandon was probably too gloaty (but to be fair - Baelish did try to kill him in a duel), but I think Petyr was going to leave that duel with vengeance.
Maggie the frog’s prophecy means that everything stays roughly the same.
The 3 kids probably die young and Rhaegar divorces her for Lyanna, kicking off Robert’s rebellion.
I think this question was one of my suggestions 😂😊
I think so, too!!! :)
Gracias my friend for the suggestion
Did you already do a video what would've happened if Rhaegar never “kidnapped“ Lyanna?
We can already tell from the books that Cersei was also infatuated w/Rheagar as any and every maiden wanted to be w/him. He was very handsome and played romantic and sad music, which women loved. Cersei talks about in book 4 of her drawing pictures of her w/Rhaegar and if Jaime found them she lied and said it was other people. Cersei was very upset when it turned out the marriage proposal was rejected by Aerys. I think Cersei and Jaime's love affair would've definitely ended and Cersei would've had a normal love relationship w/Rhaegar, and then Jaime could've moved on to actually court other noble ladies, but hopefully not have to marry Lysa Tully as he'd be pretty unhappy if he did. I could never see that going down, but it's possible Tywin would've forced him too. But then maybe he'd still pre-preemptively join the Kingsguard just to get out of it, and live a life kind of like Tyrion fucking any whore he wanted. :)
jaime went to riverrun but was more interested in the blackfish and his stories , lysa felt rejected lol
Cersei might kill Lyanna before birth, she wouldn't have anyone threatening her children's position. For the 'Jaimie in the Kingsguard' part, it was Cersei's idea for them to be closer since she was in King's Landing at the time. She told Jaime to ask for a place and her plan backfired when Tywin, slighted by the appointment, went back to Casterly Rock with her.
Quite frankly, I think that if Cersei had married Rhaegar, something would have happenned to Aerys quickly following the wedding. Aerys was already slipping into madness, he was already suspiscious of his son and Tywin. Then the Defiance of Duskendale happened and Aerys was persuaded that Tywin and Rhaegar did nothing to save him. There would have been a chance that Cersei would feel threatened as well and would go to Pycelle to solve their problem to protect her family and her position. I also think that we would get no Jon Snow at all.
So we would have Rhaegar as King, Cersei as Queen, Tywin as Hand (he was doing a good work so I don't think Rhaegar would have dismiss him), one of Cersei's children appointed as Lord of Casterly Rock, Lyanna probably wed to Robert Baratheon, Viserys would still be in Westeros with Dany (depending on the moment Aerys would have been killed). And I have a feeling that Viserys would have a say about the legitimacy of his nephews or nieces... Just saying ^^
Excellent video as always! Thanks for sharing your point of view and for making us think about it too! Love from France (and stop buying Funko Pops!)
You don't seem to cover how Tywin would have reacted to Rhaegar choosing Lyanna over his daughter at Harrenhal. That likely would have been a deep wound to the Lannister's pride and would have significant influence with how he handled the Starks when they came looking for their sister.
Cersei was also the aggressor in that gross ass relationship so maybe some distance would do well for him. I wonder what would have happened if Lysa hadn’t been forced to have an abortion and her dad forced Littlefinger to marry her? Would she be so crazy? This is kind of from the books but it’s implied that she looses her mind as a result of that pregnancy loss and then all the stillborns/miscarriages she had with Jon Arryn. That’s why Catlin was so shocked when she finally saw her sister again.
The only thing I wanna see Cersai do is die!◀ preferably at the hands of Jaime- thus, Kingslayer becomes Queenslayer🙌
So that's Ashara Dayne- hmm; I believe you're the only host that has shown a picture. There seems to be a split in the GOT community i.e.
R+L=J vs. N+A=J
I never really understood the latter (I haven't read the books....YET) but now that you've shown a visual, I get it.
btw, "squished like a potato?" hee hee
Enjoy your vids-
Appreciate your hard work.
*Always* a pleasure Thanx!
🐇Happy Easter🐰
STACEY SMYTH
Thanx Stacey! Coming from you I'll take that as a compliment bc if I remember correctly you've read the books ☺
This prophecy, that her reign would be short and she'd be replaced by someone younger, didn't that witch tell her that?
For the longest time I figured that younger, more attractive woman was Marjorie, didn't you?
Out of curiosity, are you one of the R+L=J believers or
N+A=J?
I know I don't believe the rape theory◀ I think Littlefinger just told Sansa that that because, well, he's Littlefinger!
STACEY SMYTH
btw, valonqar... good word!!
Thanks, you too! I always enjoy reading your posts◀ so interesting & informative. ✌
Hahahah. You're hilarious.
Yeah, It's roughly an accurate photo. Just a photo from the web, but it's loosely how she appears.
I don't buy A + N = J at all. It's definitely R + L = J. Haha.
THANK YOU for your nice words Cammy :)
R+L=J exactly.
N+A? *Maybe* in the books, but the show definitely means R+L. ⏫⏫ *Some* of the book-readers get TOO caught up in the books!
Let. It. Go. Watch the show!! 😀
I don't think the twincest thing would have developed that early bc when cersei visited maggy she was sort of expecting and excited to marry rhaegar and besides she looked 13
are you someday gonna have some merchandise like tshirts and hats
I've thought about it, but consider myself to be just "another guy."
Do you think anybody (like yourself) would be interested in that kind of thing? I don't plan on making money from it, just the idea that someone would wear a shirt I made would be amazing.
TheBattProductions yeah man your channel is growing fast and its really entertaining to watch and sooner or later comments would probably be flooding with do you have tshirts where can i buy it and all that glorious stuff like that.
To have a targaraen, Lannister, Tyell alliance during Robert Rebellion. Would definitely end the Starks, Arryn, Tully and Baratheon, To be honest . That’s a overpowering combine army right there
i got a question what drove the mad king mad?
I know I’m kinda late to this party but, love your video however I purpose a different scenario because remember Lysa wasn’t really seen as the ideal marriage candidate at the time. So instead of Jamie to Lysa what if Tywin purposed to Prince Doran Jamie and Elia. Or even crazier Jamie to Lyanna?
This is one of the most intriguing things in the books and I decided to write a fanfiction alternate universe where an older Lannister daughter of Tywin married Rhaegar. As of now, I just published some part of their married life and I ain't done cause I'm tackling the Defiance of Duskendale which starts a more paranoid Aerys Targaryen!
I'd love to read your story, can you give me the link?
Do you think cersei as an adult had the servant (that caught her and Jamie as children and told their mother about it) killed?
You know even if the mad king had Tiwin as hand for longer it wouldn't have stoped him from madness that was growing he was a wild card
He did that becasue of some prophasy. or the fact that the Mad King tried to blow up Kings Landing also they were looking for a way to replace Ares early. Also Balish gets hung for trying to stir up trouble.
ok you like Tywin Lanister so much. what if he finds out that Lord Balish manufacted the feud between his house and the Starks very early on?
Then there would be Joffrey, myrcella, and Tommen of house Targaryen... blond haired:)
Jamie might marry Elia Martell as his mother wanted and Tywin may want to honour his wife’s wish . And maybe Jamie takes a position in the small council and have his little relation with Cersie going on .
The tourney at harrenhal is what led to Raygar and Lyanna meeting if he's married to Cersei he has three kids and if Tywin is still the hand they most likely don't over throw the King which is why they had the tourney at harrenhal to begin with they where going to start plotting
Looks like Stannis will be the head of Storms End
Tywin's proposal was rejected because of two things: yes, because Aerys *was* that arrogant, that he still considered even a High Lord's daughter (the wealthiest house in the realm, too), the daughter of a 'servant'- &, the other, more important reason being that he was jealous & even fearful of Tywin's power & reputation - dude was paranoid as hell (he grew spiteful as a result) - I'm actually trying to imagine under what circumstances Aerys *would* accept the marriage, as much as the 'what if' of potential consequences.
There's something I haven't seen people taking into consideration in the overall analysis of Tywin; yes, he made a good Hand in some regards, but he was ruthless in a way that was only ever going to earn his house enemies after he was gone- one of the things he did in his tenure, was his reversal of many, most or possibly all of Aegon V's laws that were meant to help the poor- so, the rich & powerful liked him being in charge- it probably was better than the increasingly erratic king, truth be told - but to say there would be no, or next to no problems if Tywin remained Hand is perhaps over-simplifying.
Also- I was initially thrown when you mentioned the Jaime-Lysa match, but I remembered it was a thing- & looked at it again. However, two things: Lysa wasn't the unattractive nutter back then- she was rather pretty & lively, if a little moody- however, Jaime spent the time at Riverrun following the Blackfish around (like you said, he was still stuck on Cersei- but I think he also found Lysa's uncle more interesting) - which is a bit strange, when I think about those S 6 scenes...
Its tywin who gets the job done
Absolutely. "You're a fool if you believe he's the most powerful man in Westeros"
???
Critical issue: Cersei's prophecy:
Rhaegar and Cersei would've likely had 3 kids together, not just two because of infertility. Still blonde. They would've died young likely of natural causes, causing Rhaegar to annul and remarry to get his prophecy babies. But the timing would've been different and thus hey wouldn't have ran away with Lyanna. Entire story changes and ice and fire needs to be found elsewhere.
Possibly from Ned's kid (Robb, with Ashara) being legitimate and marrying Dany.
Possibly Rhaegar remarries Lyanna, who also gets annulled to Robert, thus either no war (especially if he legitimately loses her love), or he doesn't have support for a more just war.
You mentionned that the Lannister house is your favorite and I like them as well.
Would there be a scenario that would let the Lannister be and stay on top?
I love House Lannister. by far my favorite. Honestly, I don't know...I suppose they'd always have an outside shot at least because they're rich and Tywin exists, but the exact pathway...hmm...
I'm pretty sure the Lannisters would have joined the rebellion completely if Rhaegar had slighted Cersei by running away with Lyanna. Perhaps they would have created an alliance with the Starks by promising Cersei to Ned after Rhaegar was killed (under the assumption Lyanna lived for Robert, as they thought it was against her will). This would have created peace between the three remaining power houses.
This makes me hate Rhaegar
Dude, pls do What if Tyrion joins the black after his trial?
when was lysa suggested for Jamie? I only remember Elia being suggested as a wife for Jamie. When they visited them at casterly rock
Jaime went to Riverrun when he was young.
I’ve often done this in Crusader Kings 2
No fuckin way those two would have gotten on. I mean Rhaegar was bordering with depression and off in his own world. Very sentimental and brooding and shit. Cersei is messed up in the head. Devoured by all sorts of jealous, arrogant, malicious paranoia. Jon definitely has some streak of his real father.
Cersei is messed up of course, but she probably wouldn't have been as bad as she ended up being with Rhaegar. But yes: I don't think they would've been perfect, hah.
Another title: What if someone said use said "My King, use this opportunity to had Tywin under your thumb".
Hahah
What if Dany’s brother viseres had lived. And what if Rhagaer didn’t run off with Lyanna
He left his wife for death because some prophecy was not fulfilled
Thelma Allistair he didn't want her to die and probably didn't think she would. It just sort of happened cause of the war and the mountain