Saying kickers aren't football players is like saying goalie aren't hockey or soccer players. Just because the role is fundamentally different doesn't make it less a part of the sport.
“Are NFL kickers getting too good?” You say that as if it’s a bad thing, kickers used to be looked at like a bunch of no names, now they’re considered to be some of the best athletes in the sport, and the best to do it are known all over the league. It’s gotten people more interested in special teams plays, which the average fan used to hate, but now everyone looks forward to these plays too
@@rbaki94it’s not. aubrey missed his first 50+ FG on a TNF game vs the Giants. kickers are human, the holders are human, and the long snapper is human. there are at least three different variables that come into play each FG attempt. scoring is never automatic for any team.
Its not and you dont get full points you get less then half then points of a touchdown.. sports evolve and the point is to keep them relatively the same so we can measure the evolution.. how you gonna make them harder.. push the ball back an extra 5 yards? Or maybe shrink the width of the post.. either option is bad but i would perfer the push the ball back an extra 5 yards option.. either way i disagree with the concept its the equivalent to if when nba players started hitting more 3s the commissioner was okay we gotta shrink the hoops now @rbaki94
@walkingolga6235 drove home the human error point without over stating it whatsoever this comment seriously deserves to be studied by high-school English students when learning how to write pruesive or argumentative peices
Move the hash marks back out wider to where they used to be. College football never brought the hash marks closer together like the NFL did. This is why FGs are much harder in college than the pros. When the hash marks are wider, the kicker has to adjust the angle of his kick to get it through the goal posts rather than just kicking straight down the field. This would make FG kicking less routine and more exciting.
Agree! You only need to look at the rugby codes to see the extra variation that has been thrown away in American football ... if they only just sneak into the corner to score a try, then the kicker has to attempt the conversion from near the boundary line. The way NFL always brings the ball back to the middle of the ground after every tackle (and for PAT attempts) needlessly throws away interesting variation and makes the game more boring. (Not that the NFL has ever shown much aversion to the game being boring!)
@@BenDRobinson Sideline conversions are great and they were a big reason why oval ball kickers moved to a round ball kicking style (using the instep) rather than a toe poke despite the loss of range.
Field goals aren’t to reward teams for kicking a ball through the uprights. They are to reward a team for getting close enough that their kicker can put the ball between the uprights
I mean you're not wrong, but kickers are now kicking FGs from their own 45. How long before teams stop punting and just try an FG? Another big change from the olden days is the number of indoor stadiums. I want to see the stats from kicks in the Green Bay stadium and the Buffalo stadium. Those are some nasty conditions in December.
@@hanoverfist76 "How long before teams stop punting and just try an FG?" I say good for them. There will be more points either way (either from the kicks, or from the shorter fields in which the offense has to operate). Honestly, I think pushes like these are from fly-by-night fans, the same ones who go into basketball and say, "Let's change how the last 5 minutes is played!", or go into soccer and say, "What's the point of this offside rule? It just slows the game down!"
Football skills means you use your feet not just kick with your feet but kickers are part of the game , one of the great things about football is that lots of different alethic types can find a place in football.
Can you imagine not having those nail biting 45 yard last second field goals anymore? Game tied it all comes down to one man, one task, the noise of the crowd the ball snaps, your heart stops, time freezes as he holds the balls perfectly still just like your heart and in that moment your frozen in time and then the kick goes up your heart takes a beat, holds as you hear the call it’s on its way it curves to the left, heading towards the pole, it straightens out, it’s GOOD YOUR TEAM WINS!! You collapse back into your seat screaming yes as your buddy jumps pumping his fist in the air. You can’t take that away.
Narrowing the goal posts doesn't take that away, it just restores the heightened drama of a field goal attempt with the game on the line so it isn't a near certain make like it is now.
7:00 One could say that the kicker is one of the main components to how football was originally designed to be played.. Lets just point out its called .. Foot Ball. The sport was clearly designed in a way to mimic war. More classic red coat style war. We line our troops up against each other, we take our shots if the offensive is more successful than the defense they get pushed on the run. The ultimate goal is to get into artillery range or push the enemy all the way back to base achieving the ultimate battle victory. Every possession was a battle, the game was the war. The kicker obviously represents the artillery.
I remember thinking at the time that Scott Norwood’s 47 yard attempt in Super Bowl XXV was maybe a 50/50 proposition but people have always acted like it should have been automatic
@@patricksheldon5859 I agree. They really treated him like a jack ass. I remember that game and heard one of the announcers say under his breath. "he won't be back'. I was like, shit man, its not an extra point! Give the guy a break!
because it's not...same way pitchers in the MLB that threw low 90's used to be supreme heat, but now you have to be pushing triple digits to be considered a bringer of said heat
We had a high school kicker that became the biggest draw of fans. He put most kickoffs through the uprights and myself and two other fire medics saw him make a 68 yd FG. His coach said he made a 71 yd twice in practice. He was incredible. THEN, he was recruited and went to college, where an idiot kicking coach, who had probably never made a long FG in his life, started changing the kicker's technique. So much so that it changed everything and the kid lost his distance and accuracy was all over the place. He lost his starting position in college and never made it to the NFL. It's beyond sad. I'm glad I saw most of his senior high school games, before he was ruined. I saw his dad years later and he gets emotional talking about it.
They should move the hash marks back to where they were before 1972. they were 60 feet from the sidelines. Today they are 70 feet 9 inches. This could change the angle of the kick at times, making the kick more difficult.
Since we're changing the kickoff maybe we can change the kickoff so that kickoffs after Field Goals and kickoffs after touchdowns work differently, mostly in terms of yardage. Instead of kicking it off from the 35, you kick it off from the 20, and the setup zone is still 25-35 yards from the tee, so the receiving team will have their blockers at midfield.
Good idea. A FG leads to a kickoff that has to travel a longer distance to reach the goal line than a kickoff for a TD. So now how much farther back for the kicking placement? 10 yards? 15 yards? 20 yards? More?
@@sludge8506 - the proposal in this thread isn’t changing how far the coverage team and receiving team are positioned from the kicking point , it’s just changing the kicking point based on whether a TD or FG was scored.
@@stevebabiak6997 I mean, if you're moving the whole setup 10 yards then you'd expect the average field position to be 10 yards in the receiving team's favor, which is statistically a massive benefit. That said, most NFL placekickers have no problem belting it into and/or through the endzone from the 35, so the actual net yardage gained by the receiving team will be less than 10. Therefore, everything gets moved 15 yards, because I think that's a good offset to make it very close to 10.
Prior to the late 1960's, place kickers were position players who simply had a strong leg. They all ran up to the ball straight-on. As one might expect, teams seldom attempted field goals from beyond the 40-yard-line -- even though the goalposts were on the goal line prior to 1974. One thing you did not mention in your video is that almost all teams today use their punter to hold for place kicks. Prior to about 1990, teams often used a receiver or a backup quarterback as holders. Teams began to use punters for this role as they are used to fielding long snaps anyway.
You do know the original meaning of the word foot in the context of the game was to distinguish between a game played on your feet vs a game you played on horseback.
Yeah it’s never made much sense that they call it football and soccer in America. Football (everywhere else) is a sport played almost entirely with feet. American Football should be called hand-egg (if you’ve seen the jacksfilms video on RUclips)
If you remove the kicker, then every drive must necessarily end in a touchdown, punt, or change of possession. Your only scoring play is a TD (with the exception of the extraordinarily rare safety). This fundamentally changes the entire sport. There is no scoring play for an offense except reaching the end zone. The decision to go for a field goal is a strategic one that requires teams to weigh their odds and the risk vs. reward.
@@thefisherman0074 Is that why they get 4 chances to get 10 yards while kickers only get 1? I just dont understand why they're changing the goal posts. Why is being a good kicker being punished? Shouldnt it be celebrated? People already send literal death threats when kickers miss. Why punish them more?
@@pseudohippie55 you have 4 chances to get to a closer field position to get that "kick" so its not just kickers it's the whole team. it was celebrated before when it was rare now its normal, every single QB gets death threats its nothing outside of normal and you could apply this to virtual anyone. (none of its right but still the argument doesn't really do anything here) you asked a question on the comparison between the two I gave you the accurate response Kicking is easier than getting 10 yards if i was wrong than getting within 50 yards wouldn't be the goal it would be way less sorry partner but its gonna change.
@@johnnysummers9323this is so true Can you imagine not having those nail biting 45 yard last second field goals anymore? Game tied it all comes down to one man, one task, the noise of the crowd the ball snaps, your heart stops, time freezes as he holds the balls perfectly still just like your heart and in that moment your frozen in time and then the kick goes up your heart takes a beat, holds as you hear the call it’s on its way it curves to the left, heading towards the pole, it straightens out, it’s GOOD YOUR TEAM WINS!! You collapse back into your seat screaming yes as your buddy jumps pumping his fist in the air. You can’t take that away.
I want the nfl to implement rugby rules for extra points. Wherever the ball carrier crosses the endzone the kicker has to kick the extra point from that angle.
Exactly - why throw away an interesting extra bit of variation! Likewise if the play is not centered after every tackle, then setting up for a field goal after a player has run out of bounds to stop the clock would look a lot different.
@@rayhume1971 yes, in rugby it's where they touch the ball down - but then in rugby they haven't scored until they do that. For NFL the touchdown (ironically named considering) is awarded as soon as the player crosses the line, so that would be the most obvious way to interpret it. Although you could make it more like rugby again by also allowing the option of the scorer trying to take the ball to a more central location, so the defenders need to actually tackle them to make sure the kick is from wider.
@@BenDRobinson The score term 'Try' is also ironic, as it was ment to indicate you then had a 'try' to kick the ball over the and through the posts to score. But now the Try itself is worth more points than the kick.
Doesn't make sense to me to reward bad offense with the potential for more points. If anything shorter kicks, like those kicked from 20 yard line or less, should be worth 4 points.
Because it adds more risk to defense. Another complaint among football fans is the the lack of offense this season because of how modern defense utilities safties. This is more of a nerf to the defenses.@Nichrysalis
I spend a lot of time listening to people talk about football. People complain about many things. I’d say “field goals too easy” doesn’t even make the top 100 things people complain about.
I don't see a problem, very few kickers are elite. There is no reason to make the goal posts closer. All this means is that teams should draft elite kickers earlier in the draft. The fact is thta the 35 yard extra point fails at 7.5%. If a kicker can make 50+ at over a 90% rate, that person should be valued...and paid well. If you make it harder for them my making the goal posts closer, you'll just make it harder for extra points which will hurt the game more than whatever percieved problem of people making 50+ field goals.
It’s weird, too, as most of the great kickers were originally undrafted free agents. And teams get them from the strangest places (case-in-point: the Lions getting Jake Bates after a single UFL season. The guy had never kicked a field goal in his life before the UFL, and yet hit 3 60+ yarders while there; with the Lions, he’s missed exactly one kick so far in his rookie season-an extra point in week 3). Kickers are a strange breed.
The point is in the near future every team will have a kicker like that because its only recently that high caliber athletes have put focus on it. Also, you do understand that it will affect long fg more than short ones, right? An extra point might rarely get missed more, eg, 90% vs 92.5%, while longer fg would differ exponentially. I really don't see how it negatively affects the game. It positively affects it if it prevents a near future where a high % fg only requires ~20 yds of off.
One of the reasons for the crazy scores in football is the kicking. If you aren't going to kick extra points or field goals might as well give 1 point for a touchdown.
It is true that becoming a kicker in todays NFL you are either good or they replace as soon as they can , by good you hit 85-90% of your kicks and 60+ is not out of the question. There is only 32 spots so shouldn't every kicker in the league be good and kickers are paid well so they should make the kick most of the time. If they start hitting 70+ with ease that would bring up some issues at this point they are finally as good as they should be.
Why reward inept offense. It seems to me like short FGs should be worth more, not long FGs. Reward the offense that drove the length of the field more than the offense who made a first down or two.
@@willfotwenty7469 That's what I was thinking. If they really wanted to go the accuracy route, make the bullseye worth 3 points and balls going wide worth 2.
I think its the CFL that has a rule that kick attempts that clear the endzone are automatically worth 1 point, and through the uprights is the usual 3. The posts are also further back than in the nfl to compensate
Football players obtain the field position necessary to allow kickers to make the FG. IMO, narrowing the goal posts is the best solution to the problem (if this can really even be considered a problem.)
Here's a simple rule change: don't use special kicking balls, use the same balls that are used for all other plays from scrimmage. That will probably cut down on the success rate without explicitly having to change anything else.
The special kicking balls aren't any different from the regular balls used in non-kicking plays. They are just simply twelve new footballs sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to the officials' locker room before the game, where the officials then open the box of balls and specially mark each ball with the letter "K". The NFL introduced kicking balls (K-balls) to prevent teams from doctoring balls to make them fly higher and travel farther. In other words, the use of the special K-balls on kicking plays is the very reason why the field goal success rate isn't greater than it already is.
@@freezer8530 That sounds more like an inventory tracking problem allowing one side to sneak in their preferred balls -- fix that too, even though that isn't limited to the kicking game. A slightly beat-in, slightly imbalanced (from being wet) ball should be as much part of the kicking game as it is part of the passing game.
@@freezer8530 teams bringing their own balls is one of the most laughable idiocies of the NFL (out of many strong candidates). The league should provide the match ball(s), which should be consistent for all phases of the game. Like every other football code in the world. (AFAIK)
We’ve got high schoolers in Ga kicking fifty to sixty yard kicks. Several in my home town Colquitt county high school Moultrie Ga have kicked in that range. In fact three brothers name Fitzgerald have made record breaking field goals. Field goal attempts and three pointers. One is currently a kicker at FSU. He can kicker 50 plus three pointers as his brother in high school presently.
I wouldn’t mind seeing a rule like “only a player who participated on the previous play is allowed to attempt a FG”. Would make 3rd & 5’s interesting if you have to put in Younghoe Koo instead of your 3rd WR. Same goes for if a team gets a last second turnover in FG range. Do you go for it or let the Free Safety try a 35 yarder?
Larry Davids take is a shitty take. "Why are they deciding the outcome of games?" Bro this IS the game. Special Teams is a part of play. Not every football player has to be 300 pounds. Each position has a different skill set. No one would accuse a wide receiver of not being a football player just because they might not be as jacked as a linebacker. Different skillset. That diversity of skills, positions, and talent in the game is what makes football so damn good.
I actually LOVE the idea of extra posts within the main posts that give a bonus point. Imagine how many intense moments that would create when a team needs that one extra point to win the game and the target is so damned tiny!! Wow!
I've watched the No Fun League since the 1960's and for whatever dumbass reason, there's ALWAYS been an antipathy to FG's and kicked XP's. Hell, I even say put the posts back on the goal line. I want, y'know, points scored on every drive if possible. Oh? "Whatever happens to 'defense'?" I don't wanna see all this "sumo wrestling" at the line of scrimmage dominating the game, I want SCORING by whatever means made.
Most fields are turf now which allows for perfect ball placing and footing for the kickers, both definite advantages to distance and accuracy plus the kicking balls are different and perfect compared to actual game balls and balls of the past.
Reducing the point value of a field goal to two is probably more drastic than narrowing the goal posts. Though two points would make for more interesting strategy, whether to kick or not, lots of interesting fourth down situations.
The reason why there are goalposts and why we let kickers kick a ball through them to decide games is because the sport has the same origins as soccer and rugby. All three used to be the same sport played in England during the mid/late 1800’s, and later developed separately into the three distinct sports we know today. The reason there are goalposts in football is the same reason there’s a goal in soccer
Imagine those football games that only the kickers from both team score. If they remove them out the game whats the score 0-0 then what go to overtime for another 0-0 finish. Let the kickers play, the system is not broken. Dont mess it up.
I remember when Andrew Franks was kicking for RPI (a D-III team) and we felt spoiled. Every kickoff was a touchback, 40 yard field goals were a piece of cake.... Kicking has definitely improved.
A touchdown is still worth two FG's. If they change anything, make the TD 8 points and a two point conversion now becomes one with no kicking for XP. TD and XP now nine points, or three FG's. FYI, Cardinals beat the Chargers with two TD's and a FG to the Chargers five FG's. Don't penalize kickers, reward TD's. There would be less settling for FG's and a lot more fourth down attempts. They could also reward the defense one point on an unsuccessful conversion.
Can you imagine not having those nail biting 45 yard last second field goals anymore? Game tied it all comes down to one man, one task, the noise of the crowd the ball snaps, your heart stops, time freezes as he holds the balls perfectly still just like your heart and in that moment your frozen in time and then the kick goes up your heart takes a beat, holds as you hear the call it’s on its way it curves to the left, heading towards the pole, it straightens out, it’s GOOD YOUR TEAM WINS!! You collapse back into your seat screaming yes as your buddy jumps pumping his fist in the air. You can’t take that away.
The only flaw I see here.. this started long before the 70's.. really it started with Pete Gogalak... then in the early 70's, they were making too many FG's for the time, they moved the goal posts back to the end line (where they originally were in the early 30's).... I was a kicker in HS... back in the early 80's... so many things that changed... I found I kicked better barefooted (like quite a few NFL kickers of the day).. not allowed in HS ball... today, we have much better shoes that give the same feel of the ball. The only special shoes back then for kicking were for toe kickers. Yeah, specialization and camps have helped the youth of today get better. PK's are not the only ones... punters are performing better than ever too. At some point, the NFL just needs to step back and leave well enough alone. Just accept that skill is getting good.
They should put a crossbar across the top of the field goal posts essentially making it like a vertical soccer goal…. No more infinite above the posts kicks, kickers would be challenged more and I just think that would be cool to watch!
If the NFL starts giving four points for a 50 yard FG (and no other rules are put in place) you’ll see teams at the 10 yard line in some situations take five delay of game penalties before kicking.
Interesting. So I just skimmed the rule book, and I see that only the first delay of game penalty is 5 yards (Rule 4-6). Successive delay of game penalties in the same down are 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalties (Rule 12-3-1(n)). So that by itself presents some issues for this strategy. I didn’t see anything about loss of down but please let me know if I’m missing something here.
As long as it’s not fourth down, a team could just have a ball carrier retreat from the line of scrimmage and kneel at the 33. I guess the question is whether we want teams doing that.
I'm in favor of eliminating place kicking entirely. Instead of field goals (and PATs), any punt through the uprights is treated as a field goal. If a punt doesn't go through the uprights, it's treated like any other punt (touchback, out-of-bounds, fair catch, or return). ANY player can punt at ANY time, including past the line of scrimmage and/or after catching a forward pass. This would result in some interesting 4th down plays, with a punt/pass option. Go for the TD, settle for the FG, or possibly take a sack. Someone else has already proposed replacing kickoffs with a 4th and 15. Most of the time, you'd simply punt to the other team, but you can choose to "go for it" in scenarios where you'd try an onside kick. Teams would only need one desginated kicker (maybe two, in case of injury), since there's now only one type of kicking.
Kicking is so hype, adds another dimension to the game. I like the idea of the more difficult kick for the extra point because it incentivizes getting the ball further, maybe with a reduction in width for the 3-point as well.
Here’s the thing: Kickers are involved in about 18 plays (my educated guess) every single football game; both teams combined. If you add punters to the mix, it’s probably around 26 plays. Every single drive, except for offensive turnovers, safeties and two-point conversions, begins and/or ends with the kicker or punter on the field (or both of them if the punter is the holder on FGs and PATs). And kickers are usually involved in back-to-back plays; a scoring play and a kickoff. There are around 30 players who are dressed in their uniforms, with all of their pads on, who don’t even step onto the field every game. Now, tell me who’s *not* a football player.
Yeah, I'm not on board with a lot of this. I mean, I love to see field goals - it's just a part of the game I grew up with. It never even dawned on me that this is a concern until I saw this video. The risk of missing a kick is always present. The "getting into field goal range" for a final attempt to win is awesome. The only thing I'd find interesting is, maybe, setting the additional goal posts inside where an extra point or 2 could be scored if it was right down the middle but honestly it's kind of silly.
I honestly don't get the pushback on this. Place kickers who are near automatic from 50 yards or more shouldn't be the norm in the NFL. In today's game, if you get a touchback, start on the 30 and get two first downs, you're already in field goal range for most kickers. That's not right. I've been wanting them to narrow the goal posts for years and that's before you had kickers nailing 55 yarders at an almost 90% rate. College football is much more interesting to watch in this respect since the kickers aren't nearly as good and long field goals are still uncertainties for most teams.
Back in the '70s, the Rams had both their punter, Pat Studstill, and the Playkicker, David Ray, play Split End and Flanker (now just called wide receiver). I enjoyed that. I do understand that kicking is now a specialty and the days of players having more than one position is virtually gone in the pros.
That the top scorers are kickers is an excellent example of Lying with Statistics, namely not providing context. The primary reason for it is the length of careers combined with normally being the only player in that position, unlike, say, receivers where scoring will be normally be distributed over several in a game. Jerry Rice played 20 years, and if he was the only person the QB threw to for touchdowns, he'd be up there as well. To use one example, Adam Vinatieri scored his 2,673 points over 24 seasons, or, on average, about 111 points a season. For a 16 game season when he started out, that's almost exactly an average of 7 points a game. Two field goals and an extra. That's all. I doubt someone would consider two field goals and an extra some kind of massively dominant scoring beast on the field, especially when the extra depends on the other players on the team to score first.
maybe an offensive hash and a kick hash to keep NFL offensive schemes consistent with the modern day but when you attempt a FG you have to move to the further hash
Dolphins kicker Garo Yepremian is one of the reasons that kickers get no respect. But he was still a cool guy and may he RIP. I say leave it alone, the NFL is great.
The NFL should work with IFAF to make their own version of the IFAB, and the Official Baseball Rules should be curated by the MLB, NPB, and WBSC at the same time
@@NoLanConnection honestly, my point is that the rules committee either should be independant of the leagues and federation, or a collaboration between them
The game is called FOOTball, and kicking a field goal or extra point is the only way to score a point for your team by using your foot, so clearly kickers are football players. With respect to the argument that kickers are getting too good, citing how Vanderjagt retired as most accurate but soon won’t be top 10, that is a ridiculous argument as it happens to all positions. I remember Charlie Joiner retiring as the all time receptions leader, but after quick check of PFR, I see that he is tied with Michael Irvin at 46. Nobody minds those records falling, so who cares if kickers get better.
Punters are the most underrated players in football because they (almost) never score. Field position means a lot. With the way they call plays in Detroit, Jack Fox might just get a TD this year.
There should be no change. Unlike so many other sports (golf, tennis) where equipment changes have largely been the reason for performance improvements, this is still the same ball as it was 50 years ago. Why punish kickers for simply having mastered their craft?
When did the NFL start using the so-called "Kicking ball"? get rid of the special rule for balls that are for kick plays, and that _MAY_ be enough to satisfy those who want change for change's sake.
In Rugby Union, we had a similar problem in the 1980s and 90s when place kickers improve their game dramatically and they would decide to kick at goal for three points when awarded a penalty instead of going for a try for four points plus a chance for an additional two through a conversion. Rugby changed the scoring system rather than the size of the posts. Tries are now five points, seven when converted. This made it so that two penalty goals did not now equal a converted try. The result has been that we now see more running rugby than kicking at posts. And even when some kickers can kick 50-60 metres (almost 70 yards) often teams will still go for the bigger reward of a try.
An effective minor tweak would be to place kicks the way they do in Rugby. Instead of always in the centre of the field, the ball is placed laterally in line with the point at which the try is completed. In football terms this would be the point at which the ball breaks the plane. It introduces the additional challenge of angled kicks. For example if the TD occurs at the Pylon, then the kicker will be kicking from the touchline. On a short chip this would definitely be more challenging. In the case of the field goal it would be placed at the exact spot forward progress is stopped, rather than the centre of the line of progress.
In the Canadian football league, they already get 1 point just for kicking the ball past the end zone, even if it misses the goal posts. I’m not a big fan of this rule, but I like the idea of thinking differently. If they add a more narrow set of goal posts, they should make it worth 3 only if you get it through the inner posts or if it hits a post and goes through, and 2 points if it’s through the outer posts. 0 if it doesn’t go through. Also, then they could maybe return extra points attempts to the 2 yard line, but force the kicker to make it through the inner posts or bang it off the uprights and through. That way teams could do fake plays for the 2 point conversions. I also think they could make the uprights or crossbars mechanically move and in and out and/or up and down to make it more challenging and dramatic.
Watching the video, I was pretty unimpressed. Reading the comments, I wasn't alone. There is absolutely no reason to change the rules for kickers right now.
English Commanders fan here. Great video (but no mention of Morten Anderson 😞). I have subscribed and liked. I disagree pretty pretty pretty much with Larry David. The last second winning long field goals are as tense and exciting as sport can be, especially when they ice the kicker. New rules? - field goals are worth 2 points not 3 and each one should have an extra 5 yards added to the distance.
American football literally becoming football. But fr saying "kickers are getting too good so we make it harder" is like saying QBs and WRs are getting too good so it's time to make the field smaller or WRs can only catch with one hand.
Like I’ve said before, many times, “make the kicker kick 25-30 yards out from where the touchdown was scored, similar to rugby.” No need to alter the goal posts. Just change where the kicker kicks from. This would make teams want to score in the middle of the end zone, instead of doing those corner end zone passes. It would also be just the kicker out there to try the kick.
Personally I say leave kickers alone. Nobody complains about a QB that can both pass and run better than QB's used to. In fact they're praised to no end. Leave the kicking game alone.
It's not hard (7:10) to argue against Larry David. Without goal posts and kickers, football would go backwards and become extremely boring. Instead of a team going for 3 points on the 40 yard with a 57 yard FG attempt, they'd be either punting or giving the other team the ball back on a Turnover On Downs. It would bring down scoring and make the game much more boring. I'm old enough to remember when most teams barely threw forward passes much. Now, we see teams passing all the time and it's brought excitement to the game. No goal posts and no FG's would be asinine. Larry David's comments that kickers aren't football players is far from the truth. He should stick to comedy and keep his nose out of football. Kickers have won and lost as many games (or more) than just about any other position in football, including quarterbacks.
I aactually like Larry David's solution, end field goals all together. But if they want to keep them make the closer in you get 3 points, say the ball on the 30, on the 40 its 2 pts and over the 50 1 point. Force offenses to get "in field goal range" to win games instead of getting a lucky "splash play" with one minute left and winning a game they had no business even being in. One of the problems is the "prevent us from winning defense" when for some reason teams play 58 minutes and play winning defense, then play 2 or 3 rushers and let the QB pick his teeth back there while a reciever gets open or held and he gets a free play.
Thanks i've been wondering about this and I am glad Im not the only one that has noticed how far kicking has come recently. 50+ kicks now seem rather ho-hum.
The idea of ending the field goal is not bad....but I would recommend giving 4 points for a field goal inside the 20, 3 points for field goals between 21 and 40, 2 points for FG between 14-50 and 1 point for FG of over 50 yards....this puts a premium on getting the ball down the field..... I.E., playing football.
I played soccer growing up. And scored goals off kicks from my own side of the field. I would love to see a "bonus point" on kick offs when the kicker can put it through the uprights from the kick off point. Yes you will need to put some limit on how far back they can be to run up on that kick off....but it would still be cool.
If Dicker was traded to the Packers and they changed their name to the Pickers and then released him the commentator could say - "the former Picker kicker Dicker is bitter". 'the former Packer kicker Dicker is bitter' kind of works too?!
Either get rid of the goal posts or make every kick like that a drop-kick (no holder). Eliminating the field goal means getting close enough to score some points is removed. However, making it a drop-kick means the defense has more ability to potentially block the kick or the kicker to mess up.
Changing the dimensions of the goalposts would be a shame, as it is one relic of the game's origins - they share their dimensions with those of rugby union posts.
“Kickers aren’t really football players.” Yes they are. Their roles may be entirely different than the other players, but without them we’d have to change the name of the sport.
The name of the sport has nothing to do with using your hands or feet on the ball. It's an old name that came from a time to differentiate between playing a sport on foot or on horseback. It was played on foot, so they called it football and the name stuck.
I kinda like the idea of a 4-point field goal from beyond the 50, but only on the first down. That way the offense must gamble 3 potential advancement and touchdown scoring opportunities for the long-range-bonus point.
Removing the Goalposts also has the side effect of making scores much more standardized. You go from being able to score 3, 6, 7, and 8 points reliably to just 6, 7, 8, and those two numbers don't make as interesting scores since they're all so close. Safeties would still exist, but the reliance on them is so low they don't usually factor in.
Saying kickers aren't football players is like saying goalie aren't hockey or soccer players. Just because the role is fundamentally different doesn't make it less a part of the sport.
Check any teams stats at the end of the season....
The kicker is usually the highest points scorer.
Look at how much different the role of a cornerback is as compared to offensive tackle.
Which one is more a “football player”and which one is less?
i would like an answer to the question of should kicks be deciding games?
@@jamestaylor2976should foot+ball games be decided on a foot kicking a ball... I wonder 🤔🤔🤔
Besides which, every once in awhile, a kicker ends up making a tackle on a kickoff.
“Are NFL kickers getting too good?” You say that as if it’s a bad thing, kickers used to be looked at like a bunch of no names, now they’re considered to be some of the best athletes in the sport, and the best to do it are known all over the league. It’s gotten people more interested in special teams plays, which the average fan used to hate, but now everyone looks forward to these plays too
It shouldn’t be automatic to score points
@@rbaki94it’s not.
aubrey missed his first 50+ FG on a TNF game vs the Giants.
kickers are human, the holders are human, and the long snapper is human. there are at least three different variables that come into play each FG attempt.
scoring is never automatic for any team.
Its not and you dont get full points you get less then half then points of a touchdown.. sports evolve and the point is to keep them relatively the same so we can measure the evolution.. how you gonna make them harder.. push the ball back an extra 5 yards? Or maybe shrink the width of the post.. either option is bad but i would perfer the push the ball back an extra 5 yards option.. either way i disagree with the concept its the equivalent to if when nba players started hitting more 3s the commissioner was okay we gotta shrink the hoops now @rbaki94
@@walkingolga6235best comment of 2024
@walkingolga6235 drove home the human error point without over stating it whatsoever this comment seriously deserves to be studied by high-school English students when learning how to write pruesive or argumentative peices
Move the hash marks back out wider to where they used to be. College football never brought the hash marks closer together like the NFL did. This is why FGs are much harder in college than the pros. When the hash marks are wider, the kicker has to adjust the angle of his kick to get it through the goal posts rather than just kicking straight down the field. This would make FG kicking less routine and more exciting.
Agree! You only need to look at the rugby codes to see the extra variation that has been thrown away in American football ... if they only just sneak into the corner to score a try, then the kicker has to attempt the conversion from near the boundary line. The way NFL always brings the ball back to the middle of the ground after every tackle (and for PAT attempts) needlessly throws away interesting variation and makes the game more boring. (Not that the NFL has ever shown much aversion to the game being boring!)
@@BenDRobinson Sideline conversions are great and they were a big reason why oval ball kickers moved to a round ball kicking style (using the instep) rather than a toe poke despite the loss of range.
defensive halfbacks will never allow that.
Field goals aren’t to reward teams for kicking a ball through the uprights. They are to reward a team for getting close enough that their kicker can put the ball between the uprights
I mean you're not wrong, but kickers are now kicking FGs from their own 45. How long before teams stop punting and just try an FG? Another big change from the olden days is the number of indoor stadiums. I want to see the stats from kicks in the Green Bay stadium and the Buffalo stadium. Those are some nasty conditions in December.
That sounds like coach-speak trying to motivate a team who can’t quite get the ball in the endzone.
@@hanoverfist76I mean unless your leg is just cannon I don’t see them changing it anytime soon
They're "rewarding", uninspiring, overly-conservative play that's utterly BORING to watch.
@@hanoverfist76 "How long before teams stop punting and just try an FG?"
I say good for them. There will be more points either way (either from the kicks, or from the shorter fields in which the offense has to operate). Honestly, I think pushes like these are from fly-by-night fans, the same ones who go into basketball and say, "Let's change how the last 5 minutes is played!", or go into soccer and say, "What's the point of this offside rule? It just slows the game down!"
Wide receivers are just too good at getting two feet in on pass receptions. Let’s change the rule and require the receivers get three feet inbounds.
and must touch the ground with their thumb only.
3 points for that ?!!
3 feet - oh, now you are just being silly.
@@marblox9300nn I would add "hilarious". He made me laugh out loud.
We need to ban wide receivers wearing sticky gloves. No one wants to see one handed gravity defying catches. More kicking please.
I love to watch field goals. No sarcasm. I admire the coordination and skill involved.
6:57 "Kickers dont have FOOTBALL skills".....i mean one can argue they the only ones with FOOTBALL skills in the field 😂🤣😅
Punters: forgotten again 😢
@@halloweentimemachine fair enough 😅
Football skills means you use your feet not just kick with your feet but kickers are part of the game , one of the great things about football is that lots of different alethic types can find a place in football.
Well it ain't called handball
Especially if you include punters. Indeed, fans of the AFL (Aussie Rules) would say that the punters are the ONLY real football players :)
Can you imagine not having those nail biting 45 yard last second field goals anymore? Game tied it all comes down to one man, one task, the noise of the crowd the ball snaps, your heart stops, time freezes as he holds the balls perfectly still just like your heart and in that moment your frozen in time and then the kick goes up your heart takes a beat, holds as you hear the call it’s on its way it curves to the left, heading towards the pole, it straightens out, it’s GOOD YOUR TEAM WINS!! You collapse back into your seat screaming yes as your buddy jumps pumping his fist in the air. You can’t take that away.
🙄
Agreed
Narrowing the goal posts doesn't take that away, it just restores the heightened drama of a field goal attempt with the game on the line so it isn't a near certain make like it is now.
Yes they would have to actually play football. Duh
High Drama here in the Super Bowl (XXV)
7:00 One could say that the kicker is one of the main components to how football was originally designed to be played.. Lets just point out its called .. Foot Ball. The sport was clearly designed in a way to mimic war. More classic red coat style war. We line our troops up against each other, we take our shots if the offensive is more successful than the defense they get pushed on the run. The ultimate goal is to get into artillery range or push the enemy all the way back to base achieving the ultimate battle victory. Every possession was a battle, the game was the war. The kicker obviously represents the artillery.
I must admit, having watched this game from the mid-60s, it's kind of weird that 50 yd field goals are not considered something special anymore.
Still, some suspense remains
I remember thinking at the time that Scott Norwood’s 47 yard attempt in Super Bowl XXV was maybe a 50/50 proposition but people have always acted like it should have been automatic
@@patricksheldon5859 I agree. They really treated him like a jack ass. I remember that game and heard one of the announcers say under his breath. "he won't be back'. I was like, shit man, its not an extra point! Give the guy a break!
Norwood was a Pro Bowl kicker and probably would have been back if Tampa Bay hasn’t released Steve Christie
because it's not...same way pitchers in the MLB that threw low 90's used to be supreme heat, but now you have to be pushing triple digits to be considered a bringer of said heat
Kickers are actually the ONLY ones in the game playing FOOTball. All the others are playing THROWball or CATCHball or RUNball.
Nice
Everyone playing football is using they're feet but kickers and punters are the only ones playing kickball.
We had a high school kicker that became the biggest draw of fans. He put most kickoffs through the uprights and myself and two other fire medics saw him make a 68 yd FG. His coach said he made a 71 yd twice in practice. He was incredible. THEN, he was recruited and went to college, where an idiot kicking coach, who had probably never made a long FG in his life, started changing the kicker's technique. So much so that it changed everything and the kid lost his distance and accuracy was all over the place. He lost his starting position in college and never made it to the NFL. It's beyond sad. I'm glad I saw most of his senior high school games, before he was ruined. I saw his dad years later and he gets emotional talking about it.
"They're not football players" is an absolute trash take.
Larry David is a comedian whose pubic personality is obnoxious and self-absorbed by design, so let’s take it for what it’s worth
they r by no means Football players therefore they are Hand n football players
Remember that the NFL changed the field goal rules back around 1970 because the games were turning into scores of 12-9 field goal contests.
A lot of that change (moving the goalposts to the back of the end zone) was to get the goalposts out of the way of the offense.
As a Packers fan they CAN'T make it harder or we may never make another Superbowl😂
You'll make one in Loves career no more no less
@@krash22mini72 thats the packers tradition. the packers will win a super bowl in the next 3-4 years and never make one again with love.
@@BasedBrainrot exactly
😂😂😂
@@BasedBrainrot At least we space it out, lol. We get a Super Bowl every 10 or so years.
They should move the hash marks back to where they were before 1972. they were 60 feet from the sidelines. Today they are 70 feet 9 inches. This could change the angle of the kick at times, making the kick more difficult.
Since we're changing the kickoff maybe we can change the kickoff so that kickoffs after Field Goals and kickoffs after touchdowns work differently, mostly in terms of yardage. Instead of kicking it off from the 35, you kick it off from the 20, and the setup zone is still 25-35 yards from the tee, so the receiving team will have their blockers at midfield.
Good idea. A FG leads to a kickoff that has to travel a longer distance to reach the goal line than a kickoff for a TD.
So now how much farther back for the kicking placement? 10 yards? 15 yards? 20 yards? More?
I love this idea actually
The kickoff rules were changed to reduce concussions. DUH!!!
@@sludge8506 - the proposal in this thread isn’t changing how far the coverage team and receiving team are positioned from the kicking point , it’s just changing the kicking point based on whether a TD or FG was scored.
@@stevebabiak6997 I mean, if you're moving the whole setup 10 yards then you'd expect the average field position to be 10 yards in the receiving team's favor, which is statistically a massive benefit. That said, most NFL placekickers have no problem belting it into and/or through the endzone from the 35, so the actual net yardage gained by the receiving team will be less than 10. Therefore, everything gets moved 15 yards, because I think that's a good offset to make it very close to 10.
Prior to the late 1960's, place kickers were position players who simply had a strong leg. They all ran up to the ball straight-on. As one might expect, teams seldom attempted field goals from beyond the 40-yard-line -- even though the goalposts were on the goal line prior to 1974.
One thing you did not mention in your video is that almost all teams today use their punter to hold for place kicks. Prior to about 1990, teams often used a receiver or a backup quarterback as holders. Teams began to use punters for this role as they are used to fielding long snaps anyway.
If you get rid of the uprights, it's a different sport. It's not FOOTball anymore.
You do know the original meaning of the word foot in the context of the game was to distinguish between a game played on your feet vs a game you played on horseback.
Dude, lets be honest the only real football is the sport you call soccer.
Yeah it’s never made much sense that they call it football and soccer in America.
Football (everywhere else) is a sport played almost entirely with feet. American Football should be called hand-egg (if you’ve seen the jacksfilms video on RUclips)
The modern game that most closely resembles the original football game is not soccer but calcio storico. Look that one up.
@@patricksheldon5859okay, association football. Better?
If you remove the kicker, then every drive must necessarily end in a touchdown, punt, or change of possession. Your only scoring play is a TD (with the exception of the extraordinarily rare safety).
This fundamentally changes the entire sport. There is no scoring play for an offense except reaching the end zone. The decision to go for a field goal is a strategic one that requires teams to weigh their odds and the risk vs. reward.
If they're going to screw over kickers, they need to make each down 15 yards.
Why punish ONLY kickers for being good?
because 10 yards is way harder than kicking 50
@@thefisherman0074 Is that why they get 4 chances to get 10 yards while kickers only get 1?
I just dont understand why they're changing the goal posts.
Why is being a good kicker being punished?
Shouldnt it be celebrated?
People already send literal death threats when kickers miss.
Why punish them more?
@@pseudohippie55 you have 4 chances to get to a closer field position to get that "kick" so its not just kickers it's the whole team.
it was celebrated before when it was rare now its normal, every single QB gets death threats its nothing outside of normal and you could apply this to virtual anyone. (none of its right but still the argument doesn't really do anything here)
you asked a question on the comparison between the two I gave you the accurate response
Kicking is easier than getting 10 yards if i was wrong than getting within 50 yards wouldn't be the goal it would be way less sorry partner but its gonna change.
@@thefisherman0074 Ok.
Then no fan can ever get mad at their kickers for missing a field goal.
Deal?
@@pseudohippie55 leave fantasy land my friend
"it's hard to argue against Larry."
Did you try????
The dumbest take ever lol, the next video will be "Wide receivers are too good should we get rid of forward passing?"
@@johnnysummers9323this is so true Can you imagine not having those nail biting 45 yard last second field goals anymore? Game tied it all comes down to one man, one task, the noise of the crowd the ball snaps, your heart stops, time freezes as he holds the balls perfectly still just like your heart and in that moment your frozen in time and then the kick goes up your heart takes a beat, holds as you hear the call it’s on its way it curves to the left, heading towards the pole, it straightens out, it’s GOOD YOUR TEAM WINS!! You collapse back into your seat screaming yes as your buddy jumps pumping his fist in the air. You can’t take that away.
@@johnnysummers9323 Right? this channel fell off this video feels like clickbait because no rational person is agreeing with these takes lol
@@johnnysummers9323 Then it's Rugby!
The sport is called football for a reason
I want the nfl to implement rugby rules for extra points. Wherever the ball carrier crosses the endzone the kicker has to kick the extra point from that angle.
It's not where they cross the line, it's where they make the touch.
That was more or less the rule a long time ago, so I guess there’s at least a history of it in the sport
Exactly - why throw away an interesting extra bit of variation! Likewise if the play is not centered after every tackle, then setting up for a field goal after a player has run out of bounds to stop the clock would look a lot different.
@@rayhume1971 yes, in rugby it's where they touch the ball down - but then in rugby they haven't scored until they do that. For NFL the touchdown (ironically named considering) is awarded as soon as the player crosses the line, so that would be the most obvious way to interpret it. Although you could make it more like rugby again by also allowing the option of the scorer trying to take the ball to a more central location, so the defenders need to actually tackle them to make sure the kick is from wider.
@@BenDRobinson The score term 'Try' is also ironic, as it was ment to indicate you then had a 'try' to kick the ball over the and through the posts to score. But now the Try itself is worth more points than the kick.
Under no circumstances should we be rewarding bad offenses by making longer kicks worth more. If anything, closer kicks should he worth more.
I've always liked the NFL Europe rule of 4 pts for a 50+ yd FG. It adds another strategy. 2 FGs or 1 TD. Team up by 4 can't play prevent defense.
Doesn't make sense to me to reward bad offense with the potential for more points. If anything shorter kicks, like those kicked from 20 yard line or less, should be worth 4 points.
Because it adds more risk to defense. Another complaint among football fans is the the lack of offense this season because of how modern defense utilities safties. This is more of a nerf to the defenses.@Nichrysalis
@@Nichrysalisya long kicks should never be worth more otherwise the whole game breaks.
So, champ, what used to be 43 yard field goals will now become 50 yard field goals. It’s an unnecessary and immature idea.
@@Nichrysalis This is the correct take. Rewarding them for longer field goals is rewarding bad offense. It doesn't make sense at all.
I spend a lot of time listening to people talk about football. People complain about many things. I’d say “field goals too easy” doesn’t even make the top 100 things people complain about.
Love this take
I don't see a problem, very few kickers are elite. There is no reason to make the goal posts closer. All this means is that teams should draft elite kickers earlier in the draft. The fact is thta the 35 yard extra point fails at 7.5%. If a kicker can make 50+ at over a 90% rate, that person should be valued...and paid well. If you make it harder for them my making the goal posts closer, you'll just make it harder for extra points which will hurt the game more than whatever percieved problem of people making 50+ field goals.
Kickers going in the first round would be awesome. 😎😅
It’s weird, too, as most of the great kickers were originally undrafted free agents. And teams get them from the strangest places (case-in-point: the Lions getting Jake Bates after a single UFL season. The guy had never kicked a field goal in his life before the UFL, and yet hit 3 60+ yarders while there; with the Lions, he’s missed exactly one kick so far in his rookie season-an extra point in week 3). Kickers are a strange breed.
The point is in the near future every team will have a kicker like that because its only recently that high caliber athletes have put focus on it. Also, you do understand that it will affect long fg more than short ones, right? An extra point might rarely get missed more, eg, 90% vs 92.5%, while longer fg would differ exponentially. I really don't see how it negatively affects the game. It positively affects it if it prevents a near future where a high % fg only requires ~20 yds of off.
Few kickers being elite is how it used to be go look at the stats half the league is over or close to 90%
One of the reasons for the crazy scores in football is the kicking. If you aren't going to kick extra points or field goals might as well give 1 point for a touchdown.
It is true that becoming a kicker in todays NFL you are either good or they replace as soon as they can , by good you hit 85-90% of your kicks and 60+ is not out of the question. There is only 32 spots so shouldn't every kicker in the league be good and kickers are paid well so they should make the kick most of the time. If they start hitting 70+ with ease that would bring up some issues at this point they are finally as good as they should be.
Why reward inept offense. It seems to me like short FGs should be worth more, not long FGs. Reward the offense that drove the length of the field more than the offense who made a first down or two.
Wait yeah true, how stupid. Didnt even think of that
You shouldn’t be rewarded for kicking farther they should add a bullseye for accuracy make a 2 point or 3 point FG
@@willfotwenty7469 That's what I was thinking. If they really wanted to go the accuracy route, make the bullseye worth 3 points and balls going wide worth 2.
I think its the CFL that has a rule that kick attempts that clear the endzone are automatically worth 1 point, and through the uprights is the usual 3. The posts are also further back than in the nfl to compensate
@@incendiary6243 make a field goal bullseye
Football players obtain the field position necessary to allow kickers to make the FG. IMO, narrowing the goal posts is the best solution to the problem (if this can really even be considered a problem.)
Here's a simple rule change: don't use special kicking balls, use the same balls that are used for all other plays from scrimmage. That will probably cut down on the success rate without explicitly having to change anything else.
This is an excellent point, and preferable in my view because it involves eliminating a special rule rather than creating one
The special kicking balls aren't any different from the regular balls used in non-kicking plays. They are just simply twelve new footballs sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to the officials' locker room before the game, where the officials then open the box of balls and specially mark each ball with the letter "K". The NFL introduced kicking balls (K-balls) to prevent teams from doctoring balls to make them fly higher and travel farther. In other words, the use of the special K-balls on kicking plays is the very reason why the field goal success rate isn't greater than it already is.
@@freezer8530 That sounds more like an inventory tracking problem allowing one side to sneak in their preferred balls -- fix that too, even though that isn't limited to the kicking game. A slightly beat-in, slightly imbalanced (from being wet) ball should be as much part of the kicking game as it is part of the passing game.
@@freezer8530 teams bringing their own balls is one of the most laughable idiocies of the NFL (out of many strong candidates). The league should provide the match ball(s), which should be consistent for all phases of the game. Like every other football code in the world. (AFAIK)
We’ve got high schoolers in Ga kicking fifty to sixty yard kicks. Several in my home town Colquitt county high school Moultrie Ga have kicked in that range. In fact three brothers name Fitzgerald have made record breaking field goals. Field goal attempts and three pointers. One is currently a kicker at FSU. He can kicker 50 plus three pointers as his brother in high school presently.
its part of the game
I wouldn’t mind seeing a rule like “only a player who participated on the previous play is allowed to attempt a FG”. Would make 3rd & 5’s interesting if you have to put in Younghoe Koo instead of your 3rd WR. Same goes for if a team gets a last second turnover in FG range. Do you go for it or let the Free Safety try a 35 yarder?
Getting rid of field goals is the most idiotic opinion ever. That's like getting rid of free throws in basketball.
Larry Davids take is a shitty take.
"Why are they deciding the outcome of games?" Bro this IS the game. Special Teams is a part of play.
Not every football player has to be 300 pounds. Each position has a different skill set. No one would accuse a wide receiver of not being a football player just because they might not be as jacked as a linebacker. Different skillset. That diversity of skills, positions, and talent in the game is what makes football so damn good.
I actually LOVE the idea of extra posts within the main posts that give a bonus point. Imagine how many intense moments that would create when a team needs that one extra point to win the game and the target is so damned tiny!! Wow!
I've watched the No Fun League since the 1960's and for whatever dumbass reason, there's ALWAYS been an antipathy to FG's and kicked XP's. Hell, I even say put the posts back on the goal line. I want, y'know, points scored on every drive if possible. Oh? "Whatever happens to 'defense'?" I don't wanna see all this "sumo wrestling" at the line of scrimmage dominating the game, I want SCORING by whatever means made.
Most fields are turf now which allows for perfect ball placing and footing for the kickers, both definite advantages to distance and accuracy plus the kicking balls are different and perfect compared to actual game balls and balls of the past.
Reducing the point value of a field goal to two is probably more drastic than narrowing the goal posts. Though two points would make for more interesting strategy, whether to kick or not, lots of interesting fourth down situations.
The reason why there are goalposts and why we let kickers kick a ball through them to decide games is because the sport has the same origins as soccer and rugby. All three used to be the same sport played in England during the mid/late 1800’s, and later developed separately into the three distinct sports we know today. The reason there are goalposts in football is the same reason there’s a goal in soccer
Imagine those football games that only the kickers from both team score.
If they remove them out the game whats the score 0-0 then what go to overtime for another 0-0 finish.
Let the kickers play, the system is not broken. Dont mess it up.
I remember when Andrew Franks was kicking for RPI (a D-III team) and we felt spoiled. Every kickoff was a touchback, 40 yard field goals were a piece of cake.... Kicking has definitely improved.
Put giant Skee-Ball circles in the stands instead of having goalposts.
A touchdown is still worth two FG's. If they change anything, make the TD 8 points and a two point conversion now becomes one with no kicking for XP. TD and XP now nine points, or three FG's. FYI, Cardinals beat the Chargers with two TD's and a FG to the Chargers five FG's. Don't penalize kickers, reward TD's. There would be less settling for FG's and a lot more fourth down attempts. They could also reward the defense one point on an unsuccessful conversion.
Larry David. The one of the only players who uses their foot... isn't a FOOTball player...
Can you imagine not having those nail biting 45 yard last second field goals anymore? Game tied it all comes down to one man, one task, the noise of the crowd the ball snaps, your heart stops, time freezes as he holds the balls perfectly still just like your heart and in that moment your frozen in time and then the kick goes up your heart takes a beat, holds as you hear the call it’s on its way it curves to the left, heading towards the pole, it straightens out, it’s GOOD YOUR TEAM WINS!! You collapse back into your seat screaming yes as your buddy jumps pumping his fist in the air. You can’t take that away.
That isnt why football is called football though, so thats not the best rebuttal
All players use their feet when they run. That’s what makes it football.
@patricksheldon5859 they use their hands to throw and catch and carry the ball.... it should be Handball
@@DasGav the sport was originally called football because it was played on foot, not because they used their feet to play
The only flaw I see here.. this started long before the 70's.. really it started with Pete Gogalak... then in the early 70's, they were making too many FG's for the time, they moved the goal posts back to the end line (where they originally were in the early 30's).... I was a kicker in HS... back in the early 80's... so many things that changed... I found I kicked better barefooted (like quite a few NFL kickers of the day).. not allowed in HS ball... today, we have much better shoes that give the same feel of the ball. The only special shoes back then for kicking were for toe kickers. Yeah, specialization and camps have helped the youth of today get better. PK's are not the only ones... punters are performing better than ever too. At some point, the NFL just needs to step back and leave well enough alone. Just accept that skill is getting good.
They should put a crossbar across the top of the field goal posts essentially making it like a vertical soccer goal…. No more infinite above the posts kicks, kickers would be challenged more and I just think that would be cool to watch!
Youre a thinker.
If the NFL starts giving four points for a 50 yard FG (and no other rules are put in place) you’ll see teams at the 10 yard line in some situations take five delay of game penalties before kicking.
They'd get hit with some *major* down losing penalties by the third one
Interesting. So I just skimmed the rule book, and I see that only the first delay of game penalty is 5 yards (Rule 4-6). Successive delay of game penalties in the same down are 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalties (Rule 12-3-1(n)). So that by itself presents some issues for this strategy. I didn’t see anything about loss of down but please let me know if I’m missing something here.
@@patricksheldon5859 I’ve forgotten the exact method at the time, but I knew that trying to pull that would be a losing effort after a while
As long as it’s not fourth down, a team could just have a ball carrier retreat from the line of scrimmage and kneel at the 33. I guess the question is whether we want teams doing that.
To say kickers and punters are not real football players is ludicrous. Kickers have been part of the game since 1883 and punters shortly thereafter.
I'm in favor of eliminating place kicking entirely.
Instead of field goals (and PATs), any punt through the uprights is treated as a field goal. If a punt doesn't go through the uprights, it's treated like any other punt (touchback, out-of-bounds, fair catch, or return).
ANY player can punt at ANY time, including past the line of scrimmage and/or after catching a forward pass. This would result in some interesting 4th down plays, with a punt/pass option. Go for the TD, settle for the FG, or possibly take a sack.
Someone else has already proposed replacing kickoffs with a 4th and 15. Most of the time, you'd simply punt to the other team, but you can choose to "go for it" in scenarios where you'd try an onside kick.
Teams would only need one desginated kicker (maybe two, in case of injury), since there's now only one type of kicking.
Kicking is so hype, adds another dimension to the game. I like the idea of the more difficult kick for the extra point because it incentivizes getting the ball further, maybe with a reduction in width for the 3-point as well.
Larry David is the equivalent of "Elderly Man Shouts at Sky" News headline.
Here’s the thing:
Kickers are involved in about 18 plays (my educated guess) every single football game; both teams combined. If you add punters to the mix, it’s probably around 26 plays. Every single drive, except for offensive turnovers, safeties and two-point conversions, begins and/or ends with the kicker or punter on the field (or both of them if the punter is the holder on FGs and PATs). And kickers are usually involved in back-to-back plays; a scoring play and a kickoff. There are around 30 players who are dressed in their uniforms, with all of their pads on, who don’t even step onto the field every game.
Now, tell me who’s *not* a football player.
Yeah, I'm not on board with a lot of this. I mean, I love to see field goals - it's just a part of the game I grew up with. It never even dawned on me that this is a concern until I saw this video. The risk of missing a kick is always present. The "getting into field goal range" for a final attempt to win is awesome. The only thing I'd find interesting is, maybe, setting the additional goal posts inside where an extra point or 2 could be scored if it was right down the middle but honestly it's kind of silly.
I honestly don't get the pushback on this. Place kickers who are near automatic from 50 yards or more shouldn't be the norm in the NFL. In today's game, if you get a touchback, start on the 30 and get two first downs, you're already in field goal range for most kickers. That's not right. I've been wanting them to narrow the goal posts for years and that's before you had kickers nailing 55 yarders at an almost 90% rate. College football is much more interesting to watch in this respect since the kickers aren't nearly as good and long field goals are still uncertainties for most teams.
As a Bills fan, I'm used my kicker missing chip shots and other teams kickers nailing 59+ yard game winners against Buffalo.
Wide right
Back in the '70s, the Rams had both their punter, Pat Studstill, and the Playkicker, David Ray, play Split End and Flanker (now just called wide receiver). I enjoyed that. I do understand that kicking is now a specialty and the days of players having more than one position is virtually gone in the pros.
PAT placement should be Parrallel to where in the end zone the touchdown was scored. Like rugby.
Kicker is by far the most talented position on the field behind the QB.
That the top scorers are kickers is an excellent example of Lying with Statistics, namely not providing context. The primary reason for it is the length of careers combined with normally being the only player in that position, unlike, say, receivers where scoring will be normally be distributed over several in a game. Jerry Rice played 20 years, and if he was the only person the QB threw to for touchdowns, he'd be up there as well.
To use one example, Adam Vinatieri scored his 2,673 points over 24 seasons, or, on average, about 111 points a season. For a 16 game season when he started out, that's almost exactly an average of 7 points a game. Two field goals and an extra. That's all. I doubt someone would consider two field goals and an extra some kind of massively dominant scoring beast on the field, especially when the extra depends on the other players on the team to score first.
I'd propose making a 3 tired system over 50 1pt, over 30 2 pt under 30 3 points. incentives getting closer to the goal line.
Widen the hashes
maybe an offensive hash and a kick hash to keep NFL offensive schemes consistent with the modern day but when you attempt a FG you have to move to the further hash
Dolphins kicker Garo Yepremian is one of the reasons that kickers get no respect. But he was still a cool guy and may he RIP. I say leave it alone, the NFL is great.
The NFL and MLB competition committees need to fucking be abolished
The NFL should work with IFAF to make their own version of the IFAB, and the Official Baseball Rules should be curated by the MLB, NPB, and WBSC at the same time
@insertcolorherehawk3761 NPB and WBSC are worse than mlb is currently
@@NoLanConnection honestly, my point is that the rules committee either should be independant of the leagues and federation, or a collaboration between them
The game is called FOOTball, and kicking a field goal or extra point is the only way to score a point for your team by using your foot, so clearly kickers are football players. With respect to the argument that kickers are getting too good, citing how Vanderjagt retired as most accurate but soon won’t be top 10, that is a ridiculous argument as it happens to all positions. I remember Charlie Joiner retiring as the all time receptions leader, but after quick check of PFR, I see that he is tied with Michael Irvin at 46. Nobody minds those records falling, so who cares if kickers get better.
The kicker and punter are actually the only true football players as their positions are the only two where you actually use your foot.
I did not know players ran down the field using with there're hands I thought they used there're feet.
Punters are the most underrated players in football because they (almost) never score. Field position means a lot. With the way they call plays in Detroit, Jack Fox might just get a TD this year.
There should be no change. Unlike so many other sports (golf, tennis) where equipment changes have largely been the reason for performance improvements, this is still the same ball as it was 50 years ago. Why punish kickers for simply having mastered their craft?
When did the NFL start using the so-called "Kicking ball"? get rid of the special rule for balls that are for kick plays, and that _MAY_ be enough to satisfy those who want change for change's sake.
In Rugby Union, we had a similar problem in the 1980s and 90s when place kickers improve their game dramatically and they would decide to kick at goal for three points when awarded a penalty instead of going for a try for four points plus a chance for an additional two through a conversion. Rugby changed the scoring system rather than the size of the posts. Tries are now five points, seven when converted. This made it so that two penalty goals did not now equal a converted try.
The result has been that we now see more running rugby than kicking at posts. And even when some kickers can kick 50-60 metres (almost 70 yards) often teams will still go for the bigger reward of a try.
An effective minor tweak would be to place kicks the way they do in Rugby.
Instead of always in the centre of the field, the ball is placed laterally in line with the point at which the try is completed. In football terms this would be the point at which the ball breaks the plane.
It introduces the additional challenge of angled kicks. For example if the TD occurs at the Pylon, then the kicker will be kicking from the touchline. On a short chip this would definitely be more challenging.
In the case of the field goal it would be placed at the exact spot forward progress is stopped, rather than the centre of the line of progress.
In the Canadian football league, they already get 1 point just for kicking the ball past the end zone, even if it misses the goal posts. I’m not a big fan of this rule, but I like the idea of thinking differently.
If they add a more narrow set of goal posts, they should make it worth 3 only if you get it through the inner posts or if it hits a post and goes through, and 2 points if it’s through the outer posts. 0 if it doesn’t go through. Also, then they could maybe return extra points attempts to the 2 yard line, but force the kicker to make it through the inner posts or bang it off the uprights and through. That way teams could do fake plays for the 2 point conversions.
I also think they could make the uprights or crossbars mechanically move and in and out and/or up and down to make it more challenging and dramatic.
Watching the video, I was pretty unimpressed. Reading the comments, I wasn't alone.
There is absolutely no reason to change the rules for kickers right now.
English Commanders fan here. Great video (but no mention of Morten Anderson 😞). I have subscribed and liked.
I disagree pretty pretty pretty much with Larry David. The last second winning long field goals are as tense and exciting as sport can be, especially when they ice the kicker.
New rules? - field goals are worth 2 points not 3 and each one should have an extra 5 yards added to the distance.
It was click bait.
No. No. No. Don’t change the game anymore than they already have. Unless it’s for player safety, especially reducing TBI, then don’t change it!
American football literally becoming football. But fr saying "kickers are getting too good so we make it harder" is like saying QBs and WRs are getting too good so it's time to make the field smaller or WRs can only catch with one hand.
Like I’ve said before, many times, “make the kicker kick 25-30 yards out from where the touchdown was scored, similar to rugby.” No need to alter the goal posts. Just change where the kicker kicks from. This would make teams want to score in the middle of the end zone, instead of doing those corner end zone passes. It would also be just the kicker out there to try the kick.
I like the rugby rule. Challenge the kicker.
Personally I say leave kickers alone. Nobody complains about a QB that can both pass and run better than QB's used to. In fact they're praised to no end. Leave the kicking game alone.
It's not hard (7:10) to argue against Larry David. Without goal posts and kickers, football would go backwards and become extremely boring. Instead of a team going for 3 points on the 40 yard with a 57 yard FG attempt, they'd be either punting or giving the other team the ball back on a Turnover On Downs. It would bring down scoring and make the game much more boring. I'm old enough to remember when most teams barely threw forward passes much. Now, we see teams passing all the time and it's brought excitement to the game. No goal posts and no FG's would be asinine. Larry David's comments that kickers aren't football players is far from the truth. He should stick to comedy and keep his nose out of football. Kickers have won and lost as many games (or more) than just about any other position in football, including quarterbacks.
Top kickers deserve to be paid at least as good as RBs. They are MASSIVE game changers.
Personally I think kickers are undervalued and underpaid
Kicking is an ode to the history of the sport, which has the same roots as soccer (association football)!
I aactually like Larry David's solution, end field goals all together. But if they want to keep them make the closer in you get 3 points, say the ball on the 30, on the 40 its 2 pts and over the 50 1 point. Force offenses to get "in field goal range" to win games instead of getting a lucky "splash play" with one minute left and winning a game they had no business even being in. One of the problems is the "prevent us from winning defense" when for some reason teams play 58 minutes and play winning defense, then play 2 or 3 rushers and let the QB pick his teeth back there while a reciever gets open or held and he gets a free play.
Thanks i've been wondering about this and I am glad Im not the only one that has noticed how far kicking has come recently. 50+ kicks now seem rather ho-hum.
Ridiculous. This is like changing baseball rules to require FOUR strikes for a strikeout, because there are too many strikeouts.
The idea of ending the field goal is not bad....but I would recommend giving 4 points for a field goal inside the 20, 3 points for field goals between 21 and 40, 2 points for FG between 14-50 and 1 point for FG of over 50 yards....this puts a premium on getting the ball down the field..... I.E., playing football.
I love pro football and the Gators in college football. This is a very informative video and I learned a lot!
No, it’s EASY to argue against Larry. That’s football.
I played soccer growing up. And scored goals off kicks from my own side of the field. I would love to see a "bonus point" on kick offs when the kicker can put it through the uprights from the kick off point. Yes you will need to put some limit on how far back they can be to run up on that kick off....but it would still be cool.
The new kickoff rules are ridiculous.
Um. It’s called Football. A kick to decide the game at the end is the most exciting play.
Without field goals you are going to have a lot of over-time and a lot of ties.
Making longer field goals more points is stupid because it incentivises defenses to allow yards.
Or a weird situation where a team retreats and kneels down FURTHER away to help win a game LOL.
If Dicker was traded to the Packers and they changed their name to the Pickers and then released him the commentator could say -
"the former Picker kicker Dicker is bitter". 'the former Packer kicker Dicker is bitter' kind of works too?!
He’d be just another cheesehead.
Increase the value of a touchdown to 7pts and reduce the value of a field goal to 2pts. 4 field goals = a touchdown + pat.
Or just don’t do that
Nice video. Good analysis.
Either get rid of the goal posts or make every kick like that a drop-kick (no holder). Eliminating the field goal means getting close enough to score some points is removed. However, making it a drop-kick means the defense has more ability to potentially block the kick or the kicker to mess up.
Changing the dimensions of the goalposts would be a shame, as it is one relic of the game's origins - they share their dimensions with those of rugby union posts.
“Kickers aren’t really football players.” Yes they are. Their roles may be entirely different than the other players, but without them we’d have to change the name of the sport.
The name of the sport has nothing to do with using your hands or feet on the ball. It's an old name that came from a time to differentiate between playing a sport on foot or on horseback. It was played on foot, so they called it football and the name stuck.
I kinda like the idea of a 4-point field goal from beyond the 50, but only on the first down. That way the offense must gamble 3 potential advancement and touchdown scoring opportunities for the long-range-bonus point.
Removing the Goalposts also has the side effect of making scores much more standardized. You go from being able to score 3, 6, 7, and 8 points reliably to just 6, 7, 8, and those two numbers don't make as interesting scores since they're all so close. Safeties would still exist, but the reliance on them is so low they don't usually factor in.