The BIGGEST Dragon Ball Z HOT TAKES
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- What are The Biggest Dragon Ball Z HOT TAKES? @LSMMIKE explains in this #DBZ #anime and #manga video!
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Hot Take:
Being a saiyan Hybrid means nothing unless your name is Gohan.
Goten and Kids Trunks going ssj early isn’t special, pretty much any saiyan introduced gets given it instantly, they just happen to be young.
Them being poweful isn’t anything special, characters as the anime goes on will generally get stronger when introduced.
Future Trunks is the easiest example of how being a hybrid doesn’t matter, after training in the time chamber, FT was weaker than goku and vegeta, 2 full saiyans.
Here's the thing Trucks has great potential, but he's not a warrior or marital artists, he's a fighter. That's why he thought he could beat cell with his grade 3 from not realizing it slows him down. Future Trunks & Gohan are both flawed fighters, they don't know the best ways to get stronger on their own unlike Goku, Vegeta or Piccolo
Nah, the difference between Gohan's boost and Mirai Trunks' is that he was trained with them: Goku with 5 masters and several training methods and Vegeta who had no master, depended on zenkai to get stronger and the only time he had training was with the focus on awakening the SSJ
Super true.
Have said it for years, humans have no noteworthy addition to combat genes, just martial arts techniques.
@@luizkoryngapeople really miss the drastic difference in training Gohan and Trunks got. Goku did his absolute best to teach Gohan everything he knew while Vegeta treated Trunks with jealousy bordering on contempt. Who knows what mirai Trunks could've achieved if his father had actually loved him lol.
I just made a comment about this on another video. People complain about Goten and Trunks. Yet, when Z started. Gohan was the strongest person with not a single day of training. But alot of people had no problem with that.
The HOTTEST take is that actually chichi was a good mom and the anime borderline flanderized her before super firmly placed her as nothing more than an angry housewife
She was a cool character in DB but then in z Toriyama changed her in a bad way
I share this take. Chichi is an excellent mom and a good wife.
@@MP-qf5ggChiChi is toxic.
She was very much aware of the kinda person who Goku was, and how he spent his time. Which by the way how she could marry this guy after proposing at a MARTIAL ARTS TOURNAMENT That he is the CHAMPION of and get mad at him for training? That Zeni could put anyone on the map.
@@thedevilsleutice I’ve been married for almost a decade and have kids. When you get married, and have children on top of that, priorities change. No one who doesn’t have kids will ever understand this, and you can’t preemptively understand it either no matter how much you expect it or have foresight. She was hard on him because he didn’t mature all that much and didn’t give her or Gohan the support and care they required. I don’t think Goku is a bad father, but he didn’t take responsibility or take up the role as a supporter. Chi Chi is a human and will abide by human standards. Goku was a monkey boy who was raised in the wilderness. Should she be a little more understanding? Sure, but they were at home in peace for 5 years before Raditz. Chi Chi just wanted her family to be together and the best for Gohan. She performed her role as a nurturing mother well, still supported Goku despite resentment for his absence. She’s not “toxic.” Most of this fandom are kids or adults who have never grown up. So a good matriarch will always be antithetical to their narrow world view. Life isn’t just training and fun. You have to have balance and priorities. Goku could have done both.
@@thedevilsleutice RUclips is so dumb. My reply was deleted.
Chichi being a bad mother and wife is a common take from kids or lonely adults who have never grown up. I’ve been married for almost a decade and I have kids. When you get out of the honeymoon phase and definitely with kids, priorities change. Goku’s not a bad father, but he is a subpar husband. Chi chi is an earthling woman so from her perspective, she expects a responsible husband and wants success for her kids. Especially with sons, moms are extra protective and don’t want them to do stuff that can get them hurt. Goku had to deal with threats sure, but Chi Chi at least wanted him to prioritize his family and make a living, to at least balance out taking care of the family with training. Goku had 5 years in the timeskip and didn’t seem to get anywhere, which may be why Chi Chi resents him.
I know a majority of this fandom doesn’t relate to being a father and husband, but it’s not all fun and games anymore when you have kids. Chi chi isn’t “toxic.” She’s a responsible wife and mother who has more things to worry about than her husband’s training. She was a fighter herself so she gets it, but she realizes there’s more to life than martial arts. That’s what a responsible adult does.
HOT TAKE: DRAGON BALL GT is actually a good series ! You all expect it to be dragon ball z, in actuality it’s more “Dragon Ball” with a hint of DBZ
GrandTrash
I had the same exact experience and feelings regarding DBZA. At a point it really almost became more popular than DBZ itself. It turned DBZ into this meme series and spawned a lot of misconceptions about it. It was always so aggravating for me to try to have conversations with new people about DB and all they knew were DBZA quotes. Funimation even started putting DBZA quotes on official merchandise in the US. You literally had people that didn't give a shit about DBZ, but they loved DBZA. I once even had a person try to argue that the characters are portrayed better and more faithfully in the DBZA dub than they are in any other dub, including the Japanese source material. You can't get any more faithful than the source material. Lmao.
Even though I enjoy DBZA I understand the hatred towards it. Especially if you didn’t like Super. I didn’t like Super cause it felt more like a sequel to DBZA than it does the original series. It started influencing the rest of the franchise and that sucked
This is exactly how I feel 😭
"You had people that didn't give a shit about DBZ but loved DBZA" this is not a bad thing.
@FatalWarGhost Yes it is.
Hot take: GT goku is more faithful to Z goku than Super goku
That aint a hot take, that's just facts. Super goku has the IQ of a ham sandwich.
Hot take: they are all the same goku.
@@SpeedPunch Hot take: Cooler was the favorite of king cold and king cold wanted to smother frieza
That’s not even a take, that’s just objective facts
SS4 is pure Kakkarot....
His kill on the ice dragon was pure beast...
Man punched a hole through him and then punched a dragon fist in his afterwards!!!!
PURE BADASS!
Cell saga Goku was peak goku
the arc where he's bed-ridden lmao
nah just kidding just kidding.
I do agree.
He spends time with gohan and gets a heartfelt goodbye. Trading his life to try and save the world and his son. makes me cry sometimes.
Frieza Saga was peak Goku
He was the best era of goku
Namek saga peak goku
Cell saga peak gohan
BUU saga peak vegeta
Cell saga is the best part of dbz even with all of the plot holes
Best part in Buu saga
Babidi: "Kill himmmmmmmmm"
Vegeta: "I Refuse"
Defiance at it's bst!
Real. One of the best vegeta moments. Shows how strong his sense of self and pride is
I disagree about the flanderization of Goku since he is pretty mature in GT and is only naive at times. Goku being a complete moron is exclusive to Dragon Ball Super.
Of Goku time, but in gt Goku in a man in a kid body, in super he's a kid in a man body
Then you dont know goku
Goku isn't flanderized in Super, he has always been an idiot just great at fighting the real flanderization comes from the Z dubs that turned Goku into this Superman figure.
@@johnman8398 how because super literally gave Goku a Superman origin story. And Goku was navie and dense but not retarded and where's he never kissed his own wife. If Goku was a idiot how did he train Gohan to be the strongest in the cell saga even stronger then him.
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GODWdym how? they turned him into a hero of justice like Superman. Super never gave him that, it was already a thing long before super with dragon ball minus. The kissing thing is a mistranslation Goku is just surprised by the method Trunks chose to give Mai the Senzu. Gohan is strong because of his potential having a strong partner to spar with was who's great at fighting like Goku was all he needed, him being an idiot doesn't suddenly make that impossible.
This thumbnail is CRAZY
Bruh I did a double and triple check like wtf lol
This is a clip from when trunks recaps seeing vegeta in the hyperbolic time chamber. He starts shooting fire out his eyes and mouth according to trunks @@JstnRbnsn
*Theory:* Mr Popo is a visual representation of the Earth's increased durability. In the Buu Saga, he is as strong as Super Saiyan Goten and Kid Trunks, despite being weaker than Raditz, at the beginning of the Series.
The Lookout Tower could go deep into the Earth's Core and functions as a Lynch Pin for the coexistence of the Planet. If the inhabitants get stronger, then the Planet gets stronger, so as to sustain the inhabitants.
My hot take is that I care more about use of Dragon Ball's extensive supporting cast than power scaling consistency. Obviously I would prefer massive power boosts to be explained in the narrative and tied to character development, but if I have to choose between unearned power ups giving characters like Master Roshi and Krillin a chance to be relevant again, or only Goku and, to a lesser extent, Vegeta getting to do anything plot relevant while everyone else is relegated to an unnecessary cheer squad With nothing of substance to actually offer the narrative, I would gladly pick the former everytime.
I don’t like dragon ball abridged is not a hot take. It’s just an opinion.
Saying it’s not funny is a hot take, because it is very funny
yeah saying it's bad is a hot take because it's just an unpopular thought pattern. well anyway, It's funny if you let it be.
Hot take: The Cell arc just went down the drain half way through. I prefer the Buu arc, even though it has its problems. My problem with the Cell arc is how the writing hits a wall at one point. The whole part where Cell was like "hold up... you know what? Let's just make a tournament." And then just have everyone just standing there watching, even after the rules were thrown out the window, and weird choices, etc. They could've jumped Cell and the story would've been over. I won't say it's lazy writing, but it was definitely tired writing.
Have to say I disagree mate and argue that it’s actually excellent writing. These characters entire motives are to fight. They respect and honor the warrior code meaning they don’t interrupt any battles. It’s been that way since Dragon Ball. Cell hosting a tournament ties back into the saiyan lore as well as the very cells that make his being. He was impressed by how much Trunks and Vegeta had improved in such a short amount of time and let his “saiyan” pride cloud his judgement. He wanted to see how much stronger these fighters can get to really test his perfect form. To beat these fighters at their absolute peaks. The same way Vegetas pride allowed him to achieve his perfect form so he could beat cell at his best. But to each their own bro, each saga is amazing in its own way!
They literally jumped cell and it made next to no difference
Goku is a good father. He didn’t spend as much time with Gohan because he was dead for most of his childhood. When he was alive, he spent most of his time with Gohan.
After Gohan gets married, you literally see Goten glued to his hip, they’re always together.
I’ll take it a step farther with the End of Z dlc in Kakarot in how he pampers Pan.
DBS doesn’t need an abridged version, it’s already a parody of itself…
It's also not made by fans
It's sad that Super feels more like a sequel to Abridged than to Toriyama's original work.
Thats what happens when people demand more content, we get half baked fan service.@@EndoScorpion
@@EndoScorpionYou couldn't be any more inaccurate if you tried, the TFS brainrot is real.
@@johnman8398 The brainrot from Super is worse.
I think Goku should've stayed dead, BUT he could've also remained (a) main character. Him having otherworld adventures while the earthlings defend earth would've allowed for a situation where the two could be alternated as needed while preventing Gohan and the rest from being sidelined by Goku. Goku could've had silly absolutely bonkers adventures like Toriyama seems to want so badly while Gohan's arcs could maintain the serious high stakes situations that Z fans seem to prefer.
Dragon Ball could have been split into two main series running side by side. The first with Goku as the protagonist, exploring otherworld, allowing it to be fleshed out and Goku having wacky fun only possible in otherworld. The other continuing the living side's story with Gohan as the protagonist.
as a life-long dragon ball fan, i also dont really like or care for abridged. to me its just funny fan videos on YT but im happy that many people like it.
I like it too but no when fake fans say it's the best dub or they only like that version
Damn, serious thought i was the only one who didn't like dragon ball abridged.
Piccolo being Gohans real Dad is a hot take
It’s funny but disingenuous every time piccolo stepped up for gohan , goku was literally dead
@@chiefzeek1668 not really, piccolo and Gohan are closer in age, And gohan was Piccolo's 1st friend and the same to Gohan
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD yeah but gohan probably sees him like an Uncle
@@chiefzeek1668 no that would be Krillin, because he's his father's best friend
@@chiefzeek1668 piccolo was only there to save him when he was in a tight spot
agree with gt being better, it clearly cared the hearts of those who truly loved and where dedicated to dragon a ball at the time rather than whoever's been writing in dbh story lines since then and want to sell you an new card or some shit
Super feels like a fandub by a fan which is what it is torotoyoro is basicly a fandub
*FACT:* The change to Piccolo's character, in the TFS Abridged version, was NEEDED. Adding the consciousness of Kami and Nail to Piccolo, was an amazing Lore contribution.
You know In the original anime is was like that as well
Dragon Ball GT blended the adventures of Dragon Ball for the first half and then from Baby to the end it was like Z. And while people complained about it being a step back to make Goku a kid again, it was just a neat way to scale Goku back down so that there could be conflict and stakes again that aren't at universe-ending levels-at least until the end when they are again. But Goku had still developed and grown mentally and emotionally. In Super Goku loses all the development he'd gone through and gets dumber, having to re-learn so much of the same basic shit, AND the stakes just keep being so unimaginably high that the scaling is truly unfathomable. Goku in Super might get more and more powerful but there's no visible difference when fighting other unimaginably powerful people other than we're told so-and-so is more powerful than so-and-so. But any of those characters could destroy the universe at almost any part of Super, so who cares? And i like Super, but its just as problematic as GT. I just hope that to make it fit with the end of Z and so that GT is canon, that for some reason its decided that everyone has to forget the gods and god powers.
Krillin being the strongest human in Z, definitely not
So who is Mr Satan 😂
@@49ers_red_and_gold2He did survive a blast from Full Power Bojack and a hit from Kid Buu
No it's Tienshinhan untill Uub shows up
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GODUub being the strongest is cheating, its Tenshinhan
@@luizkorynga that's why I Said untill Uub, and I'm only talking about Z not gt or anything else
I like GT, both Super and GT has their pros and cons. The issue is that it’s become a popular to shit on GT.
Kinda reminds me with DBS Broly and Z Broly. It’s become popular to actually act like Broly only says kakarot because of TFS.
I’m with you on that first paragraph
I think was the second Broly than TFS that transformed Broly into a caveman only able to utter one word. I definitely remember the “Kakarot!!” Memes way before TFS ever existed.
@@countprophet5881whilst true I remember it being fair worse after than before. The thing I’ve found ironic is that DBS Broly just screams or is completely silent and people act like it’s next level cinema
Fair. TFS at worst amplified the jokes, but they didn’t create them. I can understand why it’s still annoying though.
Honestly I feel like its more popular to shit on Super, don't get me wrong I completly understand but I like Super but so many people hate it, and I get it but damn
I only disagreed with 3 of them;
I think it actually made sense that Goku came back, especially because he his reason for staying dead was wrong.
While the Buu Saga has its issues I'm actually glad it was made and I like the ending of the Buu Saga more than the ending of the Cell Saga.
I don't think a live action Dragon Ball would work. I think a live action inspired series could work, but because of how much would need to be changed, might as well just make an inspired property
Part of the problem with Goku’s reasoning is that Pilaf, The Red Ribbon Army, and King Piccolo are clearly not his fault. They would’ve been bad regardless if he existed or not. The world would’ve been screwed if he wasn’t there to stop them.
@countprophet5881 yup, it was a classic example of a character not able to see the good they've done, because they felt they had to shoulder all the blame
@@somebeing803 but then again the androids were made to kill Goku, Frieza coming to earth. The Saiyans coming to earth
@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD that's a few, but not all threats that appeared was because of him. Goku coming to that conclusion made sense, but it was a wrong conclusion
You’re right about Frieza, but Saiyans is iffy as they’re the ones who send Goku to Earth in the first place. And Androids were created specifically because of revenge against Goku for thwarting the Army’s original plans. I don’t think we can blame Goku for that.
No one thinks Yamcha is weak. They think he's weak relative to the rest of the important fighters. Which is not only one hundred percent true, it's what actually matters. No one cares that Yamcha can blow up the solar system several arcs after other characters already surpassed that benchmark.
No one my friend? I've seen people say that Tenshinhan from TOP didn't surpass Nappa, I've seen people say that humans in TOP didn't surpass Vegeta from the Saiyan Saga...
There are still A LOT of people like that in the fandom
I can easily see the merit in all of these "hot takes" coming from you and I also agree with almost all of them as a long time DB-Fan.
As for you truly hottest take, I personally don't agree but I understand and respect your reasoning.
Dragon Ball Abridged from Team Four Star had a rocky meme riddled start but from the Namek (Frieza) Saga onwards they tuned back alot of the basic internet humor jokes and notacibly made an effort to develop their own slight deviation of the DB-canon and style.
I can see how this isn't everyones cup of tea but I, personally really enjoyed most of DBA, had good laughs and respect the creators for clearly trying their darndest to set them selves apart from the original series, easpeacially at a time the Dragon Ball franchise had little in terms of animated content for many years.
Overall though, great video and I always enjoy to hear your opinion on Dragon Ball, even when I disagree which is quite rare to be honest :D
Yeah, those first few episodes are kind of rough.
But as a former XD RAWR millennial, I sincerely apologize for our marks on internet culture.
… and Xanga.
Honestly I think they peaked in the Namek Saga beyond that I feel they leaned too far into head canony territory and away from the parody aspect which gives the idea that they want you to take the narrative they're telling more seriously but it fumbles because its a parody. Saiyan Saga has the opposite problem where its like old internet reference the series where its less about any form of writing but what funny joke they enjoyed that episode they wanted to add for shits and giggles. Season 2 is the perfect balance its not the meme graveyard season 1 was but it didn't lean to far into constructing a narrative like Season 3, its entertaining plain and simple.
The Frieza saga should have ended with Frieza dead.
💯
You know adult z Goku didn't kill villains just let them live to fight another day
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD well he could have dusted Frieza and asked Enma to bring him back as good person seemed to work with Buu 😅
@@brianrosado2333plot holes
@@brianrosado2333 Since Uub was a little Indian kid, Azeirf coulda been a little black kid.
Hey Mike!
Of course, you’re entitled to your opinions.
The way I look at DBZ abridged is that:
A) it kept the series popular during the “dark ages” - sure evolution prompted AT, but executives may not have been so willing to move forward if there was no interest overseas. Slapping down 60 episodes of a parody on YT probably clued them in to the demand for more.
B) Humor is an effective way to engage with a topic. I liken your videos to in depth research while DBZA is more like catchy rhetoric. For example: Power levels’ relevance can be retroactively understood as a metric that sort of lost meaning as the series progressed - which if you have done that video, please link it in the top left corner😂 I’d def watch. But, as a long-time fan of the series, the 4 word DBZA meme sums it up pretty well.
C) It’s infinitely more digestible on rewatches than popping in the dragon-box dvds.
Thanks for the years of great content!
1. True, Yamcha isn’t weak. I really wish they didn’t always have him lose first between all the tournaments, the Saiyan saga, or the Android saga.
2. I agree Goku’s good, at least before the Majin Buu saga. For me, the fact that he didn’t keep in touch with his family when he had the means for seven years only to have another son grow up without him is the worst thing he’s ever done. At the end of Z/the origin manga, it’s implied he just leaves his family behind to train a stranger. And granted he could teleport to them at any time but point still remains that since he didn’t keep in touch with them before for seven years, why would he start now.
3. I agree that even with the few things I do enjoy about it like the Goku vs Vegeta fight, the Super Saiyan 3 form, and the fusions, the Buu saga for me is the worst of the original story.
4. I think Super as a whole is a bit better since it’s had more time than GT but I think I hate the Goku Black saga more than anything in Dragon Ball. I also think Super Saiyan 4 is the best transformation.
5. While I love the designs of some of them, I agree there are too many transformations.
6. I’m kind of on the fence with this one. I liked Goku better but definitely saw that his character arc ended perfectly in the Cell saga. I didn’t like there being a seven-year time skip and would have liked to see Gohan as the main character, younger, growing more into the role fully without relying on Goku. If anything though, I would have liked to see more adventures of Trunks in a spinoff series over Gohan, excluding the Goku Black storyline.
7. I might have agreed if I liked more of the Majin Buu saga but
8. I agree completely that Z should have ended at Cell even if the first time watching it left me angry at Gohan for letting Goku die. It otherwise ended everything else perfectly.
9. I agree with you. While I know the technology has been there for at least for at least a decade, I have little faith since I don’t know why studios can hardly ever just stick to the source material.
10. I hadn’t finished it all but I guess it can be fun at times. It should be no means the first thing anyone watches for Dragon Ball though.
When he would lose tho it would be to the main villain or antagonist and not some random. And he beat the Saiberman. And he went 1st because he knew he could come back
Hot take: GT Goku being called mature even though he behaves more like Child Goku than Z Goku
Doing your best doesnt mean you are doing good
Worng
I think the hottest take is my hot take, and that's that dragon ball super(at least the newest section of it, granola and past) I was getting tired of just new super Saiyan forms. You can only get so excited for oh look, another level of super Saiyan. Giving each character their own unique paths of power is really exciting to me and adds a lot of depth right when I was getting bored of the transformations. Some of them are janky(ego) but they add a nice complex layer.
Frieza Soldier better be in BT4, man’s better than Jiren
I disagree on some of your takes. DBZ ending on the cell saga being the first. I feel like if Dragon Ball ended there then the franchise wouldn't have been as popular as it is today. Also fan favorite games like the Tenkaichi series including Sparking Zero most likely would have never been made. Also I just don't think Gohan is that interesting of a character to replace Goku. Sure Gohan maybe could have got his own arc (not including Super Hero) but not for the rest of the franchise. Goku is just too beloved by casual viewers. Toriyama made the right call by bringing Goku back in the Buu arc imo.
Buu saga* but yeah, Gohan could of been a good Main lead if his character wasn't being flipped back and forth between not training and then training again
My biggest problem with the buu saga is how much of a letdown gohan is. He stops training after cell so he's weaker. He finally gets a powerup from old kai but then doesnt really accomplish anything. He fights super buu and gets absorbed like 5 minutes later, then doesn't do anything against kid buu.
Imagine if Goku stayed dead and Buu was defeated by Vegeta and Gohan
The DBS manga is better then the Anime after the T.O.P
Not being big into DBZ Abridged feels the same as liking a song that Weird Al makes a parody of
Regardless of how much respect he himself might have for the original artist, his obnoxious fans constantly insist his version is better
Honestly I’m surprised you haven’t been bum rushed you cannot say that without someone coming for you
Sometimes, Weird Al's version is simply superior. That's not even a hot take.
not only that, but thanks to DBZA, there are a lot of misconceptions. Like Goku being a bad dad or that Goku was too lazy/stupid to take the medicine.
@@Borgdrohne13he rarely spends time with his kids, and even post death, the only time he chose to talk to his son was when he learned there was a martial arts tournament. there is a reason people call him a bad dad.
And he didn't take the heart medicine in canon, so that speaks for itself..
@@vla1ne yeah, bc he was dead and had only one Day, where he could come back. And of course he spends times with his kids. 4 Years with Gohan, before Radditz arrived for example or with Goten after the Buu Arc. The people, who call him a bad dad are often the same, who defend Vegeta and ignore, what fuck up shit he did during the Cell Arc.
"And he didn't take the heart medicine in canon, so that speaks for itself.."
Bc he was instructed to take them, when the symptoms appear (Manga Chapter 141, Page 6), not before.
Yes I will always prefer Goku as the main character but I wouldn't had mind him becoming a master or mentor to Gohan and other younger fighters
Tbf. BOTH GOKU AND GOHAN SHOULD BAVE BEEN THE PROTAGS...AND EVERYONE ELSE FROM THE Z WARRIORS AS WELL!!!
I even heard some liked Abridged more than Dragon Ball itself which makes no sense. Just read the manga, everything is in there, it's the masterpiece, nothing tops it in any fictions.
My hot take is that namekians are more powerful than saiyans.
Saiyans may be a "warrior race", but in the grand scheme of the DB universe, they're low tier. The only saiyan above "grunt" level in Frieza's army was Vegeta (a "super elite" saiyan). And he was mid-rank in Frieza's army.
Most saiyans were Raditz level. Meaning namekian farmers (Dragon Clan), were more powerful than the average saiyan was.
The lone namekian warrior was only rivaled by Ginyu and Frieza himself. Not even the "Super Elite" saiyan could rival him without Oozaru. And low-Mid tier saiyans WITH oozaru still couldn't beat Nail.
Before the cataclysm that wiped out most of the namekian population; Dragon Clan namekians could be as strong as a Super Saiyan. Meaning they were also stronger than Full Powered Final Form Frieza. I repeat: a Dragon Clan member! Not even a Warrior Type.
To add to this, Nail was the strongest dragon clan alive and he was at 42,000 vs Vegeta being the strongest Saiyan alive at 18,000.
@@NappaDZ Nail was Warrior type, not Dragon clan. He was the only warrior type left.
Also, the Nameless Namekian (Piccolo and Kami before they originally split) was Dragon clan, and Guru implied he was as powerful as a Super Saiyan.
I strongly disagree with Take #2:
No, Goku isn’t “a dirt bag father”;
but,
he IS, indeed, “a bad father”.
The main reasoning for my opinion, is the seven years on Planet Yardrat (he refused to be transported back to Earth, by the Eternal Dragon); instead of coming home to his family and friends.
Second:
Flying off with Uub (a guy that he just met) - during the World Tournament- was an even bigger slap in the face to his family and friends.
Third:
He used his 24 hours of mortality, to specifically be at the Tournament.
That’s ass.
These are all signs of “a bad father”.
Well if Goku didn't learn instant transmission. The earth would of blew up. He would of died. And him flying off with Uub when he could teleport home when ever he wants to
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD but had he not stayed on yardrat he would have already been on earth by the time frieza got there. It was only a few hours difference with his time spent there, so him just leaving yardrat and coming back later, would have meant that he could have been on earth days, if not weeks, before frieza got there.
also goku being able to teleport doesn't mean he's a good dad, even with the ability to talk to his wife and kids from the afterlife, the only time he talked with them was to hear about a martial arts tournament. that is not the way a "good father" would act.
@@vla1neHe wouldn't have learned or mastered Instant Transmission if he had left early, which means Mr. Satan would have died along with Gohan and ChiChi after Super Buu destroys Earth.
@@Diogo85 in the time following, he could very well have learned instant transmission. Also, it was partially on him that buu even got to that level, as he admits that he could have killed fat buu in ss3, but "wanted the kids to have a crack at it".
Also, gohan, vegeta, and goku all dropped the ball that arc, buu should have been either dead or prevented from reviving multiple times in that arc, and they all sold so hard that the planet got blown up.
Trunks prevented buu solo, I.T. shouldn't even have been necessary.
Happy leap year Mike! Love your content 😊😊😊❤❤❤
Thumbnail is GOATed lol
Hot Take, The Para Para Brothers were the best side characters ever. You can't change my mind.
For me, DBZ should have ended with Frieza's saga: Goku beats the strongest foe in the universe being the legendary ssj that appears every 1000 years then dies, sacrificing himself. Also, it is well connected with the previous saga, unlike Cell's that is just a timeskip.
But there would be too many plot holes like what is gohans fate? How is Vegeta going to live? How will everyone deal with the new foes? Don't you think that a other arc will Fully flash out those ideas?
@@SpeedPunchExactly.
@SpeedPunch Nope
Yamcha is the first person in Dragon Ball to show a special technique, his Rogafufuken was shown way before the kamehameha was, and even if Goku was hungry the first fight, Yamcha still won. As far as Super goes, I'd choose that over GT any day. GT just felt like a fever dream. Cool ideas but just... I don't know, it's weird to me in a way I can't explain and I don't like most of it
I actually agree with everything you said in this vid, but in particular when u said DB fans will always want more content, because that is so true! (Speaking for myself here) Honestly, the DB franchise had soooo many opportunities to make a meaningful ending/finale. Whether it was ending things with Goku defeating Frieza and vanishing into legend as a Super Saiyan, making his sacrifice against Cell and passing the baton to Gohan, or even remaining dead and letting Mystic Gohan be the hero that defeats Buu. The stage was set many times for an epic and meaningful finale that would be forever remembered in the anime world, and funny enough, they all involved a sacrifice on Goku's part.
And you know what, despite all of that, just like Goku, I would also sacrifice my own desires for an awesome ending to Dragon Ball for MORE CONTENT 🤣🤣🤣
I'm sorry but Dragon Ball is just one of those things that goes beyond a good story with a start and finish. There's something so captivating about it that we always yearn for more. One more bout. One more fight. One more Super Saiyan brawl. Unlike other shows like One Piece or Naruto, Dragon Ball is the one show that I would be happy never seeing the end and would love it to continue long after I die. In a way, whether it's through a new saga, a new transformation, a new fusion, or the whole realm of Other World and Universes, it's a story of endless new beginnings. A beautiful metaphor for life itself. ❤🐉🪽
Vegeta did not deserve a redemption arc. Don’t get me wrong, it’s good that he became a better person, but before he was Goku’s reluctant side kick he was an interplanetary mass murderer. He should still be treated with caution and eventually have to actually pay for his crimes.
Cope. Vegeta is the best written character due to his redemption arc
Who gonna make him pay for his crimes? Goku? They have fought already and goku saved him from Krillin killing Vegeta. He paid for his crimes on Namek when he fought against Frieza to end his empire's reign. Can he change sides? Sure but goku has faith if he tried too goku would be there to stop him. Goku's fighting spirit is what makes all bad characters turn good. A hero will stop you but good is kind and will let you live and train to fight again.
@@pipz420 If the Galactic Patrol could contain Moro then they could have easily contained Vegita. At least before he got God Ki. Then they could have contained him with some difficulty.
@@subtlegong2817 jaco literally stated the galactic patrol was turned a blind eye to the frieza force because of their reach. dragon ball fans pay attention to the lore challenge
He literally died twice trying to save the universe & also was prepared to be completely wiped out of existence fighting Kid Buu when he was already dead. Vegeta had been redeemed & I appreciate DBS reinforcing that he's a good guy.
Buu saga is the worst of Z but idk about DB & Z that's a little hard
On the form debate, I like giving each character their own ‘final stage’ so to speak, but it absolutely could’ve been done more efficiently, without the redundant middle steps, with the bulk of the time be focused on them honing the single transformation
I feel like Goku in z with the concept of ultra instinct would stop using transformations to save energy and fight more efficiently like Master super Saiyan but in base
25:05 I have no idea why Hollywood producers looked at DB and tried to make it a teen drama when The Lord of the Rings was a massive success at that time. They should've made a swashbuckling comedy martial arts adventure movie loosely based on Journey to the West just like, you know, *Dragon Ball*
That thumbnail is awesome 😂😂😂😂😂
gt had a better ending than Super, Super felt like putting a square peg in a round hole.
Super hasn't ended yet
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD fair. However, it's still feels like they're trying to fit things in where they shouldn't fit.
@@saiyan4414 yep and it can only get worst from here
No it didn't Goku randomly leaves with Shenron and flies off somewhere for no reason. Super's ending (the series is still continuing but still) made sense and felt natural for the series.
@@johnman8398 no it didn't, and he was talking about a hero's legacy. Super is a rushed water down to Series with really no stakes or doesn't fit with the original canon at all
Hot take: I love Gohans story in high school when he tries to balance a school/ superhero life balance.
Heya Mike, this was a very intriguing video to watch. Out of all the topics you mentioned, the one that stood out to me was about Forms. There has been an oversaturation of an overused transformation template, which can get boring quickly. I would have agreed to a removal until I saw a video from MasakoX talking about Colour Theory plus Chakras and how that correlates with Saiyan transformations. I think the forms themselves need to change for the better into something that corresponds with each character's personality or breed. In addition to that, perhaps a new magic system could be developed alongside their Ki or a transformation that connects them to their perspective martial art history. Overall, this gave me something to think about and hopefully, Mike, maybe you can do a deep dive on your thoughts about these transformations.
I've always been disappointed by DBS's nonsensical transformations that are as lazy visually as they were writing wise. IMO, the writers should've gone deeper into fusions. I still think there's untapped potential there. Imagine future Trunks coming back and convincing Vegeta to fusion dance with him because Goku is temporarily knocked out. Then Goku fusing with Gohan to join the battle. Only for them to realize they need fuse the 2 fusions to create the ultimate saiyan. Vegokenks. And make it last only 15 minutes so it's a race against the clock to defeat the villian. Fuck it, you could even throw in Goten and kid Trunks into the mix. The possibilities are endless. The new fusion forms would've been sick. But no. Instead we get Kaioken minus the muscles.
The real reason Goku wanted to stay dead after Cell was because he went 0-2 after Frieza.
Transformations in db have become the Simpsons “but she’s got a new hat”
My problem is that he's just complaining that they aren't done well.
That sounds more like an argument that they should be done better.
If he wanted to argue that the series needs to be done without them moving forward he should have talked at least a little bit about what he imagines that would look like.
Everybody has a problem with the way transformations are handled in Super. It's too much and theres no build up or sense to it at all. Complaining that something is done poorly isn't the same as explaining why an alternative would be better. It's a better argument that to resolve the problems transformations should be written better instead of being written out.
@@TecTitan he was spot on. Transformations a bs and it’s not what the show was about but that’s *all* the show has become.
It feels like they're less for narrative weight but more to be flashy. To be fair you could say this started from the Buu saga
@@redgrave4492 buu sagas is responsible for a lot of what started the series demise. Super instead of attempting to fix it and dial it back a bit went “let’s make this even more ridiculous”
But yeah I totally agree, the transformations have become a crutch with no narrative importance. It’s literally (and I mean literally) a soulless marketing ploy for merch. It’s all merch. Even more shameless than 80’s g1 transformers.
DBZ Abridged was funny the first time. Near the end it became very sloppy, and watching it a second time I realized very quickly that loud isn't funny.
Gohan not being the main character really stagnated the series in term of character development.
While I get what you're saying about transformations, I don't think the ones we got in Super were lazy. They were the definition of less is more and where their displays of actual power meant more than what they looked. Hell look at how Super Saiyan God showed why it has that title: its first user in thousands of years nearly destroyed the ENTIRE universe with PUNCHES alone by ACCIDENT. Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego are also amazing forms since they are also techniques at the end of the day. Beast Gohan also fits since I hope this is a human-based transformation to give a nod to an extreme power from Gohan's human side which is what he was aiming for in the manga. And Piccolo needed those bones thrown to him and Orange Piccolo is AMAZING.
Goku is not bland and flanderized when he returns in the Buu saga and you should absolutely know this. In many of the videos you've made, you go over the many instances of Goku's planning and general wisdom. Contrast with the Z fighters, such as Yamcha decides to revive people *despite the fact that Buu isn't defeated yet...* among other things.
I agree with Toriyama's assessment that Gohan isn't well suited to being a protagonist, because in his current incarnation he's too reactive and mild to be a leading character. If more changes were made to make him compelling it would work, but the Cell saga left us with a confused character (with contrived pacifism) who was extremely strong, but not much else
Vegeta's arc ending with Vegeta declaring he'll "never fight again" is not a satisfying end to his character arc. End of Z, GT and even Super have better, more satisfying conclusion to his character
Toriyama was making shit and did not like it.
Vegeta is a better dad then Goku is definitely a hot take
How is that a hot take
@@femiyeku7334 he never held kid trunks once for the first 7 years of his life and he constantly berated future trunks and even gut checked him just because he wanted to save him from the cyborgs
@@hybridsaiyan22 and from space pirates
@femiyeku7334 he beat and ignored future trunks. He ignored bulma and baby trunks. It wasn't until future trunks died that he understood what he had. And it wasn't until Super that he started taking the husband and father role more seriously.
Vegeta is a better dad in Super. In Z, he is worse
@@Alienldr ah super is debatable
Hot take: Saiyan saga is peak dragon ball and does not have what other sagas had which is characters like the z-fighters not finishing the emermy as they were to weak.
Writing wise it is the peak of Dragon Ball as it utilized the fighting cast effectively compared to arcs before and after it. The big fights were the story. The only thing rivaling it is the first half of the Frieza arc. I know people like many elements of the Frieza, Cell, and Buu arcs for justifiable reasons, but those last three arcs writing wise never quite reach the Saiyan arc.
I disagree.
@countprophet5881 I disagree.
@@Diogo85 I agree
@@Diogo85 I agree
Never realized how much the Goku/Gohan dilemma has in common with DC Comics bringing back Barry Allen and sidelining Wally West in pretty much the exact same way AT did Gohan.
I thought for sure, the fact "Goku's character in Z and after makes no sense" and I'm referring to his transformation into a SSJ on Namek in the English dub they essentially turn him into Superman which makes him a far more confusing character as it makes Goku overly righteous which isn't a problem up until you remember before and after that point, he murdered an entire army, killed his own brother, let a threat to his planet live with the express intent to fight that threat again, gave an entirely different threat a means to treat himself, awoke Buu simply to satisfy Majin Vegeta, causing the ToP, being the direct reason Freeza literally rose from the dead, and the list goes on, and on you could even partially blame him for the destruction Goku Black causes.
Abridged was one of those things that was really funny when I was a kid but not now. I was with my friend the other day watching stuff we used to think was peak comedy, he said abridged Nappa was one of the best characters ever and put on the clips of him in the sayan saiyan saga and we just watched on with deadpan expressions. It's unbeliveable some of the stuff we used to find funny, I bet if a lot of the fandom went and rewatched abridged they'd feel a lot differently about it
caulifla & kale being good characters, who am I kidding lol
They're not bad, they're okay.
Should have had the main character be Gohan but also have Trunks and goten be the next important characters. Have piccolo and Vegeta be the mentors and cultivatiors of their abilities.
Whoever thinks DBZ abridged is a good sub for the OG anime is not a true fan
It's entertaining but definitely not better especially when the short fights
Calling someone a fake fan for what they like is silly.
@@Diogo85 not really
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD Yes it is. Having that opinion does not make anyone a fake fan at all. People are entitled to their own opinion, no matter what other people say.
@@Diogo85 but DBZA isn't apart of the franchise
I agree that they need to remove transformations, when they showed Goku retaining god ki when fighting Beerus that was a gateway to making ALL Z-fighters relevant and relative to Goku, by having them all train with Whis (like they did with King Kai in the Namek saga just translate that to Whis recognizing their heroics or accepting food bribes to accept all the Z-fighters under his wing) and learn how to access God Ki to the point where they're all in the realm of being of actual use to the story. Also it rationalizes the non-Saiyans being stronger than all villains prior.
... hot take? Super sucks. Badly.
They had so much potential when they announced the sequel to Z. And they absolutely floundered it.
Regarding Goku, I always saw it like this: he's a bad father, but a great dad. He cares a lot about Gohan and family, but in terms of fatherly duties and providing for his family, he does a bad job where he realisticall could do better.
Yamcha solos many verses, JJK, Naruto and so on
Your transformation analysis is so good thank you lol
Agree with Gohan being the main character. I stop watching after the cell saga and keep that as my main ending
Dam so you didn't see Bojack Unbound hahaha
The series ended with the cell saga would be the perfect ending
Gauntlet down, garlic JR should be considered canon
Hell no
Goku is a better dad than most dads in my whole family including mine
My hot take is that Dragon ball z should have ended after the cell saga ended it was the perfect ending because all of the loose ends were tied up and. The torch was passed to Gohan.
Vegeta's story arc was still incomplete.
In general yamcha is not weak he is literally top 3 strongest humans ever he’s only viewed weak when he’s compared to aliens
My hot take is that Hercule deserves at least some of the credit he receives, due to without his actions during the battle, the Z fighters could have lost.
Three points:
1. Yamcha's biggest loss was losing Bulma to Vegeta.
2. I'd love to have seen Gohan leading in a new saga or series after the Cell saga as he grows up, further refines his character, and trains up Goten and Trunks while having Piccolo as his advisor. I liked GT to some extent, but never liked Super much.
3. And yes, FRIEZA SHOULD STAY DEAD after Namek! King Cold revenging on Frieza's death alone would've been a better arc, and it deserves a longer arc.
Frieza is the villain of DB, plus if he did stay dead trunks wouldn't have that bad ass introduction
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD True, or perhaps Frieza would stay dead after Trunks' badass stint.
@@johnl6277 Well he did untill you know super came along
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD i know, and he was brought back twice and he's still kickong around as a major threat. I don't like it. The writers should have Vegeta killing him for good in Resurrection F if he didn't stay dead until then..
@@johnl6277 He is the Villain of all of DB but yeah he should be killed by Prince Vegeta at the end
That’s why I say GT is better than super because GT introduced one form and use that one form to defeat every single enemy. They didn’t go above that it did get stronger, but it was still the same form there too many forms in super.
And it wasn't even untill the 2nd Saga too
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD SSBlue or SS4
@@drewart1546 what do you mean ssj4 or ssgss?
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD nvm
I think dragonball doesn't need less transformations but more transformations, however not only for Goku, Vegeta and the villains.
The newest dragonball movie was so refreshing because the focus wasn't on Goku and Vegeta.
Give the normal humans more forms too! Hell, give Tien more arms again or more eyes or whatever, give Killin super reaction time or the ability to copy his opponents attacks since he seems to be more of a Technician anyway, whatever! Just give the rest of the cast a bit of love too!
One issue to address is looking at DBZA as a fandub. Its not. They state its not.
But, the rest of your points are totally fair as reasons not to enjoy it
I agree with the majority of them.
Hot Take #1: Pretty much all you said. The issue is Yamcha became a meme is the sad thing which became the corpse crater and that's all they remember. That or getting stabbed through by Gero.
Hot Take #2: Once again pretty much all you said. I think the reason most say this though is due to the jokes within Abridged in general. It's funny, yeah, but there hasn't been much proof he's a terrible father necessarily. Next thing that isn't realized is he's a Saiyan deep down and looking at Saiyans with their offspring aren't that... "soft" on their parenting. Whether it's for Trunk, Gokou, Vegeta, Gohan, and such. (I didn't forget Goten, he just haven't really interacted with Gokou much due to being dead and the whole Buu thing going on...)
Hot Take #3: As you said, if we're talking just Z... I agree with this. Mostly because I just didn't like what they did to Gohan from Buu Saga onward.
Hot Take #4: I 1000000% agree. Super felt way to corporate in general and all of the new transormations and forms are pretty much just hue/saturation changes that were call a day... or mashups of old ideas pretending to be new. GT felt like a blend of DB and Z together with the concept. Some parts were a bit off and rusty, but overall it feel kept the Dragon Ball feeling. Would I have wanted it fleshed out a little better for certain characters and such? Hell yes. I feel it just needed a little more of Akira's touch on it to have been a bit better. One thing I of course will never like with GT is what they did to Piccolo.
Hot Take #5: I would've disagreed if we didn't take Super into consideration. As I've mentioned within the 4th hot take is the whole just hue/saturation changes with old rehashed ideas. Trunks whole rage thing is pretty much False SSJ/Legendary SSJ-esque, Ultra Ego is just SSJ3 with SSJ2 hair in a purple hue, you mentioned SSJG and of course SSJGSSJ aja SSJ Blue and so on and so forth. I don't think I would've felt this way if they actually put some feeling into all these new transformations and not make them feel like something I've seen before and looking so unoriginal. I don't like SSJG, Blue, Rosé, UI, MIU, UE, Orange Piccolo, etc. They just looked bad.
Hot Take #6: I would've agreed with this one if Gohan didn't turn out the way he did pretty much. He wasn't my #1 favourite, but he was one of my top 5 up until the Cell Saga (My #1 would be Vegeta). I loathe Great Saiyaman so much, I don't like how not only did he get quirky as he got older, but his personality never really changed from the moment the Buu Saga started up to whatever they did to him in Super. Also was never a fan of Videl in general and I'll link her with him because well... I did like Pan in GT though... even though I wish she had a SSJ form. Overall if Gohan had went a different route and gave off a decent vibe/aura like he did from Saiyan all the way to Cell Saga as he did in Buu Saga, I would've agreed to have him as the main character. Just... just not how he is after.
Hot Take #7: Once again I would've agreed if what I said in the 6th hot take was a thing. As you wouldn't need Gokou there if Gohan could've held it up. Maybe show Gokou every so often in the afterlife or something, but not being front and center.
Hot Take #8: It goes right back once again with hot take 6. I would agree because of Gohan yet again. I do really like SSJ3, I like all of the Buus, I like young Goten and Trunks, I like Gotenks as well, I never liked Vegeto/Vegito, but without the Buu Saga we wouldn't've had Janemba and I really REALLY like Gogeta. But the Buu Saga in general were lacking or it felt a little too rushed compared to the other sagas in general. Certain things could've been fleshed out more, Gohan could've been written better, certain aspects of the story didn't need to be so quick like the "huge threat" being Kid Buu where he was barely around as long as the other forms of Buu, which I think he should've been used a bit more before Uubing him.
Hot Take #9: This one I 100% disagree with honestly and it has nothing to do with Evolution. Here's one of my hot takes... I enjoyed Evolution for how stupid it was. Before I even went to the theatres, I expected it to be horrible as I knew there was no way a live action was going to work right. I enjoyed the stupidity, the cringe, and the completely off or terrible changes within the movie (to this day I'm still annoyed we saw Chichi's house but we never got to see Ox King. I so wanted to see him, but whatever.)
You mentioning the technology and such is there, which I say it is but certain things would just look bad or uncanny in a live action honestly. I don't think you can make a good looking live action final form Freeza for example, I don't think Krillin would work that well without his nose (and a nose Krillin is not something I want to see, thank you very much), same with Chiaotzu. Popo would look real off as well, so would Oolong without it looking really bad. Either a real pig talking (which would look eh....) or a CGI cartoony-looking pig (which by that point just make a movie like Super Hero or something). All forms of Cell I can see working, and the Namekians, but then certain vehicles and other things might look a little weird in live action as well. I just don't think it would work unless it's made as a joke/parody/mockery and not meant to be taken too seriously. The problem is Dragon Ball as a whole is a mixture of comical and seriousness... I just don't see the seriousness working in live action. This hot take I don't agree with.
Hot Take #10: This one is also one I disagree with, but I can understand why someone wouldn't like it as well. I wouldn't say it's a hot take in general but a reasonable opinion to have. I like it as I do like to see someone's interpretation of a series I enjoy that I've seen a ton of times since I was a child. It was never something I took seriously and more of "How will they warp/change/corrupt this part of the story?" and I enjoyed it for that, but yeah... people who meme it too much or tend to use it as a reference in talks of the anime or manga or whichever is very annoying, which is why I said this is a reasonable opinion to have on it. It's not for everyone and that's 100% okay. Same as the Tenkaichi games aren't for everyone (I don't like the Tenkaichi games over the Budokai games. I just don't.)
Your totally right they need to knock off with all the endless meaningless transformations. Its pure fan service for years now.
Ngl I do feel the Transformation Fatigue, kind of a postive to me that Daima might not rely on them as much.
Especially in the Manga where you got the forms and then one off extensions like 'Perfceted Blue' then supposedly Vegeta using Blue evolution against Beerus brifely, or Goku using Kaioken-Blue but- not-really in the T.O.P to using princpals of UI in his Super Forms, then the whole True UI/Omen thing in the Granolah arc that made UI really convoluted the more they try to 'elaborate' on it.
A series that doesn't rely on that would be refreshing. I don't think transformations should be erased, but maybe they'll find away to better use their power in a way that they don't need all the ones in between. Something that makes them feel important to the story again and not solely a marketing ploy.
I think there is an argument that Buu is not the worst overall. The search for the Dragonballs they didn’t know what they were doing yet, and the Red Ribbon just goes on and on and on for such long times after it already should have ended.
I don’t think there is ANY argument for the after Gohan is born part of the manga though. Saiyan, Frieza and Cell arcs are just relentlessly assault it.
I agree that I don't like DBZ Abridged and it comes from the fact that they didn't stray too far away, but told the same story with their own humor which I didn't like personally.
But there are some good abridges out there that are good abridgments and not a retelling where they actually go against the source material.
I swear that Mike and I brains are like merged. I agree with 99% of what he says lol. I agree with all these “hot takes” so much, especially the transformation one and GT>Super (although I’m not a fan of GT but I despise DBS).
what i like about abridged, besides some funny stuff, i dont think its ALL funny, is how much they care about it themselves, like adding stuff, like 16 and gero's relationship, that was never really spoken about, cause its something that honestly coulda been canon, and i like the canon things that could have been, so its why i like it, its not just dubbing over being funny, its also adding stuff along with it
😂 you know what you were doing with that thumbnail.
This video started auto playing for me while working 😂. I appreciate your opinions, there are a lot of things to have opinions on so most people will disagree with each other on many things. For me I'm happy that their are new dragon ball arcs. I also want the show to stop being the sayan show. I'd like it if krilon or tien became more powerful than the sayans and defeated the bady of an arc. Every time it's just bad guy, get the sayans. The new episodes at least made the humans relevant and changed it up. Top, black Goku, and cell max had characters who were not Goku and Vegeta participate in the victory. They definitely had to do some fuzzy explanations, but omg I don't want to watch Goku defeat everything all the time.
People taking dragon ball z abriged as though it’s a version of the story isn’t an issue with the abridged series. People are just stupid. It’s funny, let’s just move on.
I like dragon ball abridged okay, but I absolutely cannot stand a certain subsection of DBZA fans or the constant repeating of jokes or memes from it. I can respect the show, but don't like what it brought to the DB community.
Yamcha is stronger then Yajirobe, Chiaotzu, Master Roshi, Pikkion and everyone who he lost to besides a cell Jr in Z
Well in super Roshi can fight and beat Tien somehow lol
TBF in supers terrible logic, Roshi was apparently not frail enough to go into the ToP... He should've died being hit by anybody in the tournament. Fan service at it's finest kept him alive.@Cynic18
@@warmanreaper he literally almost did die in the top
@@MisterCynic18 one reason super sucks