Cutting Tall Baseboard - Tips and Tricks
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- Опубликовано: 20 июн 2024
- In this video we take a look at how to install a very tall baseboard profile with a square dado profile. Tips and tricks for measuring, cutting, and installing in this video.
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00:00 - A Cool Baseboard Profile
00:39 - How taller base changes the process
02:05 - The problem with this baseboard profile.
02:41 - Cutting baseboard on the flat
05:56 - The installation direction changes when cutting on the flat.
08:35 - Baseboard Install Height With Shoe Molding
09:20 - The Process for Measuring Baseboard
14:32 - The Process for Cutting Tall Baseboard
18:55 - What nail length?
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Hi Spencer, to answer your question, think of it this way. You've said that you normally use 1-1/2" nails for your typical base jobs. That's 1/2" of material, 1/2" of drywall, and only 1/2" of nail holding it to the stud with minimal risk of hitting electrical wires or plumbing lines. While the inner Rambo in me says to use 2-1/2" nails because there's no such thing as overkill, I'm going to take what I learned from your past videos into account, and say to stick with 2" only.
Wondering why the pocket door is screwed to the blocks and jamb the way they are?
Best trim carpentry channel on RUclips 💯
Hands down 💯
Hahah I was thinking the same thing and it’s not even close
You know your a perfectionist when you use a square to make a straight line on your note pad!
Nice work!!!
Spencer, I see 2 other ways to handle this that doesn't leave you with a nub at the cope that could easily break off or get damaged.
1. Cut a 3/4" wide dado at the joint to the depth of the dado. This would allow the other half of the joint to sit flush with the dado, and show the same as the cope does.
2. Cut a filler piece the width and height of the dado to be applied to the joint after assembly. These could be cut beforehand, and tapped in with a block made to the shape of the joint so the filler doesn't get set too deep.
number 2 would be the fastest solution, and number 1 would likely be the best looking for stain grade. Number 1 also has the advantage of not needing any small bits, and be the strongest of the joints.
Agreed.
Yes I think I would do the dado. Dig the radial arm saw out and set up a dado head in it.
It’s nice to do things the hard way…sometimes. Then other times the hard way is not really hard at all. Advocates of the “nub-less” installation still have to go back and fix things. I can see a nub-less advocate getting a surprise client visit by the architect and builder with a future client in tow. The future client asks “why is that little gap there, is the painter going to caulk that?” The pro-nub dude is just going to get praise for working close. What happens on the job site never stays on the job site. It ain’t Vegas.
🙏🙏🙏🙏
Hi Spencer, I use 2.5" nails most of the time and 2" on wet walls with a little construction adhesive on the back for that extra holding power.
I hit a water line once finishing a basement. Running some furring strips with a framer and hit a pex line that was laying on the bottom flange of an I joist. I was in the bathrom directly above the shower rough in. Best case scenario.
I do mostly remodeling so I definitely err on the side of shorter nails for baseboards.
I would have cut a 1/4×1/4 square piece, what ever length and made all straight cuts and used C A, glue for the plug that you will fill that 1/4 in dad. If this is , as you always say, paint grade. Great video.
Modern day Norm Abrahm. As always, great explanation on techniques for installing trim.
How hard would it be to ca glue a block in that dado? I keep thinking it would be faster to do that and a couple passes with a sanding block. Or may not give an acceptable finish, but with paint grade I think it would be worth a try.
*Welcome Back*
Spencer, Fastest install method for this profile…After reading all the comments and being a little savage with my own (my humble apologies) and maybe thinking about this base profile too much…this is what I came up with: no cope to leave nubs on the ends, no pre cut nub square dowel glue-ins, no caulking the nub-less gap, no pry bar under or behind base to snug up inside corners. Eliminating all these tasks will increase speed and efficiency. So far so good. It has been mentioned that using a router or laminate trimmer with a rabbeting bit and a bearing - on the end of the board on the first piece entering the corner (the left end of the first piece entering the corner in the video) a 1/4” deep cut X the thickness of the base (3/4”) is a solution. My problem with this is forcing the second piece plumb as you have created a 1/4” blind to flush out to. Job site conditions being what they are, this is too hit or miss and the painters will need to caulk. Depending on how the framer builds his corners, it was suggested that a well placed GRK finish screw with reverse threads would allow for “shimming” of the second piece of base to push it away from the wall and tight to your routed plow. If the GRK screws work well, this method would be the most efficient. Overdrive the screw and back it out until the base seats in the plow of your first piece. With the way most framers build corners, you might only be able to catch meat at the plate and not the stud because you may be past it at 1 1/4” (drywall plus base). You could toenail the screw slightly but the shoe plate might be sufficient as most gaps will occur in the lower part of tall base. On the next house as part of your pre drywall walk through, you would attach blocking to pack out all the corners so you would have some meat to catch after the walls are closed in. So, next one for sure but I would still experiment with the reverse thread finish screws. Maybe a healthy shot of PL behind the base where the screw enters might stretch back as the base is pulled plumb and off the drywall creating a little “PL bridge” which would then cure and create a type of stabilizing shim effect. I would also predrill for the screws to avoid splitting at the end or into the plate. No need to back cut on the straight 90 degree cuts at the miter saw because the end is meeting the blind plow. So, it’s only one pass on the saw and one pass with the router/trimmer. Maybe an additional benefit would be that you could still cut base on the flat position with the top of base against the fence and measure and work your normal routine which is clockwise in a room. Place and cut the right end of the board, slide it a couple of feet to the right and then taking the rabbet bit to that same end you just cut. No changing saw angles, no extra footsteps, no flipping the board and minimal movement of your board. With a 1/4” deep plow at the end of your board, might as well put a couple of quick lines of titebond above and below the dado line before you run the second piece in. Plenty of adjustment time for the GRK shim method. With your cut list, you would subtract a light 1/2” from your cut length. Clockwise around a room, you would lose this 1/2” on the left end as it meets your plow. Light 1/2” so you can spring longer pieces into place - same as you would with a coped end. As with all base, some situations require you to reverse direction. This is simpler with this rabbet, PL and GRK shim method.
Masterful. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
For the gap at the bottom of the cope,I put a ringshank drywallnail at the bottom and then tap the code to make it fit
Spence your videos have been phenomenal lately
I've ran this base on a couple homes. I cope it the same way except I use a flat 90 deg foot on my jigsaw so there's no need to mark a square line. I actually like this base because it locks in on the corners and the top edge of both pieces is always flush without having to pry or shim. Thanks for sharing👍
2" nails seem to hold fine for me. You probably get close to 7/8" into the stud once the head is sunk in.
Definitely leave that index pin on your coped end.
Hello Spencer, it's me again. Excellent tips for trim carps that haven't been around for while. Hopefully younger generations will become masters of trim.
I like to go about 15 degrees in the opposite direction when making the back cut on a cope. Gives you a little wiggle room if the corners are not square. Our last trim job we used some pl 375 on the bottom of the straight cuts and a grk screw with the reverse thread near the head to close the gap at the bottom of our coped corners. I think the screws are for exterior pvc trim but once you drive them in you can micro adjust by backing out the screw and the head does not pop out past the surface of the wood. Love the channel man, anytime I’m starting a trim project I search your channel first to see if you have a how to video! Thank you!
Good stuff as always!!!
I cut most all of my trim on the flat. I still keep all the copes on the left. I find it is easier to cope the profile that way. I do use a copeing saw though. We run a lot of tall speed and flat base down here. I run 2" nails on everything but doors and stairs. It been working good for me.
One thing I've found out about measuring accurately is to make sure the hook on the tape measure isn't bent. It can mess you up sometimes! I have that same laser measurer, it's very accurate for measuring baseboards!
Just did a whole house with this base and casing all with that dado connecting into one another the casing was notched on a 45 and also the base just where that Dedo connects into each other it was all the same thickness so it had to be flush came out looking amazing in the end totally seem less have another one coming up in a month with the same trim package because the other homeowner seen it and loved the look I have to say I don’t love doing it but the outcome is beautiful in the end
I really like to cut wide boards like this with a track saw. I use a 39” track and a rail square and it’s faster and more accurate than adjusting the bevel on a scms.
Great work. Top notch. Another way is to just cut a bunch of "nubs" dowels. Plug fill paint done. Awesome videos
I scribe a line on the cope side / 45 with a knife and use my oscillating saw for coping. It follows the line nicely and its clean. If there is a profile I use a 4" grinder with a sanding disk to sand in quickly. The scribe adds time but it is clean.
I installed a similar baseboard in my house, except the top profile was round. I’m a novice carpenter so I used mitered corners since I was going to caulk and paint anyway. Turned out great, but definitely would have been better with the right tools and guidance. This is a great video!
Absolutely love that laser tape! Bought two right at the get go in case they "improve" it!🤣 I adopted your style of measuring a room (or floor) and have never looked back. Great fits and only a couple trips back to the saw during basing to tweak a board or two. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Spencer. It does not fall on deaf ears, Sir.
Much appreciated Michael!
Me too, grateful to Spencer for the Leica tip, love that tool !!
I do finish work & a ton of built ins and custom pieces ! I use the Chop Master and you’re right it can do that! However I cut face frames, and dimensional lumber for jigs ect.,. So if I can not get it to my cabinet saw then I tape it before sending thru the chop master! It has two sharpening son it and it’s great!
You're a beast man, definitely would've straight edged that and made a little fill tool
Great video I love the comment on selling your cope master saw. Oh well do it the old fashioned way and you keep the brain exercising and young
never thought of the measuring left to right when coping on the flat . great tip .
i generally just use the 2 1/2" nails .
I fear water lines and electrically surprises in the wall also though the times i have found them the short 2" nails wouldn't of helped .
I will give this more thought though. Maybe 2" nails will pull in and hold fine .
Great tips. I like your 2 note pad Idea. I can’t tell you how many wasted trips going back to the saw to retrieve my pad.
Master at work 😉👍
Senco 2.5” , 15 ga Milwaukee 2 nd Gen ! I mark out the studs ahead of time like u & use 2 for each stud.
Thk you 4 the video Spencer! I wondered about selling that cope master ? Oh well “Merry Christmas “ buy another one !
I developed much this very same system on miles of mostly 5" over the years. I prefer cutting it flat, easier to mark and handle in my opinion. I prefer a slight angle on the back cut, helps it fit better sometimes. Most butt joints don't get biscuits in my world and butt joints should be on a stud which needs to be factored in the measurements. For accuracy, that would generally require two trips imo.
I found the process very efficient and eventually learned to make money at it.
I used to make 2 trips when joining on a stud. Nail 1st peice then measure the rest. Then I started making a line or crow's foot on the wall and getting both measurements. It usually fit good enough. Once I got a laser tape I got it perfect every time. I use the calculator feature on it.
Measure the full length of the wall, go to your stud and press the minus button then measure from the stud in either direction. It'll display both measurements and it's always spot on because you're using the full length measurement.
Awesome! Just be glad you don’t have to scribe everything to the finished floor with no shoe lol
Exactly how i used to do as you say cope, we say scribe in scotland. I now use on big jobs the trend scribe master pro saves alot of time 👍🏼
Colin, do Scottish carpenters have to dig in their toolbox for the coping saw or the scribing saw. I could go for that. Scots-Irish, English, German. Collin…my middle name by the way. Just spelled properly… with a double “L”. While Colin is the traditional spelling, Collin follows the rule of double consonants after a short vowel. Rules. You gotta watch out for that German thing that rears it’s ugly head on occasion. My understanding is that most if not all English-speaking countries outside the United States use the terms scribe and scribing. Just wondering if they still do it with a coping saw. I typically scribe with the grain and cope against it. Leave it to the Americans to come to the party late…and change the rules.
1/4” d. x 3/4” rabbet. Done. (Bearing pilot bit, no jig, 5 secs, better joint, better shrinkage solution). Though lacks continuity with your process, I get that, and your work stream is outstanding.
Now you’re talking. Just need to work on your speed. A whole 5 seconds?
👍👍👍.Thank you
Good video on the dreaded baseboard. I hear other carpenters say that's for the new guy! I disagree. I've been doing this for a few decades and I still run base- it's not something that can be butchered, and it is should be viewed with the same importance as crown molding. A couple of observations; you have to have nails in the gun when nailing corners 😅 - I use the same bar. On my last piece- the one at the door, I go with the lesser 1/16" so as to not push the trim towards the slab. ( you say strong, I say heavy). As for the length of nails, I always go with a 2" nail. I'd rather a caulk line crack than penetrate an AC, or plumbing line. In fact, I'll skip the stud that has blue paint next to it. Like I said, good video!
I understand your reticence for not using 2-1/2" nails. I'm pretty sure you mark the floor, so you should have confidence in using longer nails.
I've always measured a room with the longest wall or wall opposite the door first, cut square on both ends. Then cope joints butting into that first piece in both directions. I have done this to minimize seeing any gaps down the road if anything moves. Does anyone else do it this way or is that overkill?
Standard practice 👍
I think it's overkill. Keeping copes on one side as much as possible helps keep things simple.
It's the way I do it so you the cope is out of the sight line. Especially since everything around here seems to be prefinished stained
I've always used 2-1/2" nails for 3/4" base or casing.
Hands down one of the best finish carpenter’s around!!
Love your videos. Money is in the details! Me.. I would square but the inside corners. 1/4 x 1/4 strip to fill the dato. 😅
@ 17:50 ..I make sure that my coping cut is good before I cut the length (if you need to re-do the cope joint, it won't be too short)
Spencer, I love the channel. Your recommendations on the laser measure and Franklin stud finder saved me hours on my last baseboard install. I was wondering why you didn't consider cutting a pile of nubs and just tacking them onto the end of a flat cut board. Seems like that could save hours of coping. Since the rest of the cut is strait, it seems like you could get a better fit with a straight cut on the miter saw and the nub could be batch cut, held in place with a jig and glued and tacked. Saving hours of coping.
That's how I do it with this type of base, just a dab of glue and a pin nail
Woow Spencer
Hit it out of the park with this video.
Like how you plan your work and small lean practices to avoid the forget things I see you value your time a lot.
Thanks for sharing
love your process videos! I was wondering what wood are you using for these baseboards? is it the same as for the door trim? do you get it down to size yourself or are you getting the pieces milled and prepared beforehand from a supplier?
Finger jointed poplar. We order our millwork from a wholesaler.
I want to see a cope off with you and richard from finish carpentry TV!
Great video! Curious… having never used that base… would a 1/4x1/4” or whatever that dado cut is, square stock just glued into the space left at the corner joint be faster?
It would need to be glued onto the "Coped" end of the board so that you could make it even with the intersecting dado. That may prove a little tough to achieve.
Nail length should more than twice the material width. (1 inch trim- 2.5 inch nails) I was using the dewalt laser measurer but it adds 2 mm, as we get standard 18ft pieces i prefer tape, add 1 mm for the snap in. My "s" stands for square cut...same difference ey mate. Love your new workshop btw. 🇦🇺
Looking for advice. Using the exact same baseboard only at 5-1/4” tall with 3-1/2” wide casing. Need to miter cut both boards so that the dado reveal matches at a 90 degree, from base to door casing. Looking to carry the dado reveal throughout the room from base to casing.
Funny thing. 33 yrs in. Last yr finished a big kitchen/bathroom job. First coffered ceiling job. It cam out beautiful. Nailing the last piece of pre finished baseboard less than 4' long. Ran out of 2" nails so i used the 2-1/2 i had in my aprin. A year later the customer called about water in the basement. Come to find out that longer nail just Punctured a pex heating line and took a year to rot out and start leaking under the Hardwood floor which yes buckle the floor. Plumber charged 800.00 for his work and i warranted everything. A 4k mistake on my part. 😂 dont be me. Use the 6 penny.😅😢
Hi Spencer, any tips on coping bullnose corners? My brother in law gifted me the same style of baseboards but I'm having a difficult time deciphering how to go about this? Thanks
I’ve started to see this profile show up more and more.
I haven’t tried it myself, but I wonder if cutting a 3/4” rabbet into the end of the board to the depth of the dado might be another option?
That's definitely another solution that would work but your measurements would have to be very precise because both ends of the board would have to fit tight. Also the rabbet would be visible on the top edge of the base. I like to see people thinking of alternative methods though. That's what drives innovation.
Love your video's. How do you feel about using a trim router and making a rabbit instead of coping? Essentially remove the thickness from the face to dado depth. The straight cut base would slide into the rabbited space. Might be quicker. Idk
Tricky to get that tight. Lots of pry bar use to pull the second piece away from the wall, no?
I usually use 2 1/2” 15 gauge nails because a lot of our work is in 100+ year old houses that were balloon framed with uneven rough cut lumber so walls can be uneven and the extra hold is necessary. Sometimes so bad trim screws become the final solution.
Be interesting to see a video on how you true up your saw before starting a job like this. The saw has to be spot on when working with trim this wide.
Ever try any CMT blades? I’ve switched to them on my Unisaw and my DEWALT 790.
I haven't tried any CMT yet, but I've heard good things.
When I am walking through the job squaring the framing with a sledge hammer, I note plumbing and wiring issues on the subfloor as I mark the stud locations with spray paint. When installing the baseboard I feel 2" nails are plenty if applying some construction adhesive within a foot or so of corners.
I don't understand how you spray the stud locations? On the subfloor? Doesn't it get covered by flooring by the time you do your baseboard install?
Great video!
I always use 2.5" nails for 3/4" material and 2" for thinner trim. I just pray I dont hit a water line. 😂 So far so good!
Sounds crazy & I don’t have a piece of that base in front of me but maybe could cut the inside corner flat & use the 2 part glue you showed on your miters to glue a little nub in the cope to fill that part on the mating piece..might not break off if installed carefully but wouldn’t have to cope just cut square cut base…with a job that big it might be worth a try?? Love the channel
I had thought of trying that also!
I was thinking this too and I think you'd have to tap the nub inside the dado on the receiving end instead of attaching it to the cope side. I doubt it would line up perfectly every time, but imperfectly enough that it matters? I'd try it and see I think
Great job bro, couldn't you have done a half-lap to of the dado?
Is all the Sheetrock on the new homes 1/2”. I worked for a builder that sometimes would use 5/8” on jobs for imperfections in framing. We did not do thorough walks through before drywall like you do so. I use 2 1/2” nails for a better hold. Your exterior walls are probably 2x6s. And there should be nail plates where needed. Maybe keep on eye out for iffy spots on your prerock rituals.
How is the order of painting handled in this situation? Does flooring go in then you come back and do the shoe molding and at the end floor is taped off and everything painted? Or is most of trim painted before flooring and then after flooring prefinished shoe molding is done and last is only touchup?
I'm a facility manager and far from a carpenter although I do a lot of DIY on my properties. I was mixing mud for brick masons back in 1980 to pay for gas and did quite a bit of framing, but I wanted to tell you I love your videos and enjoy the content. Well explained and you have really taken your video to next level. I hope to see you hit 500K soon.
I personally never install trim raw. Being a professional custom cabinet maker of almost 30 years and a professional finisher, I spray all of my finishes inside of my professional spray booth and install it after the fact. I do have a Copemaster and while it does collect more dust than it is used, when I do need it, it is a great tool.
I've cut a square plug for that detail before. Easy to batch cut the little square plug than just glue it in when required. I also never buy nail guns without dry-fire, nothing worse than peppering your work with holes only to realize there was no nail.
Any tips on transitioning from a 5-1/4" profiled baseboard to a stair skirt board that is shorter?
Love your content. Little confused. You are mitering the baseboard anyway, why do you need the nub. Wouldn't the dado be closed also if you just did it as a miter cut? Also don't understand why you have to cut your baseboard upside down and backwards like crown? Thanks
Just did this base on a house in Carmel, IN. Also used matching casing which they requested the dado flow from the base to the casing. A lot of time spent on joinery to deliver the requested appearance. So far joints are holding solid. We don’t learn what truly happens til we just try it.
I have seen a few guys doing that. That is a difficult install for sure!
@@InsiderCarpentry absolutely. I think it shows that the modern Flat trims are not truly quick and easy in all situations. I’m ready for the next one someday. Now that I know more of what I would do to improve the pace and application.
@@Abrewdogdid you rip the dado off the bottom of the casing leg and extend the base (past the casing) with a short miter above the dado on the base and then run the base past the casing and use a jack miter on the casing leg?
The fun starts when the client wants wainscot with a dado detail. Base, stile and rail.
@@Abrewdog try 2 dedicated job site table saws each with feed stop blocks for left and right and 2 dedicated chop saws with depth stops to cut the casing upside down for left and right. Go slow to reduce tear-out. Your over cuts on the table saw rips and miters will be on the backside of the casing. But make the rip first and then the jack miter because that fall off waste piece with the point on it likes to fly when it’s cut free and a table saw is more severe than the chop saw with projectiles. Be sure to use positive stops so your newer guys can have fun too. Makes the casing jack miters easy. If you are short on saw horses, you can use garbage cans instead. I learned that on this channel.
You only have to shoot a water line once to cause you to always be nervous about water lines. Ask me how I know.
That profile looks nice, but that's a lot of work to get that little nub. Nice work as always.
Hey Spencer, thanks for another great video. I always wondered why so many people opt out to cope their inside corners even though youre mitering the outside corners? It seems like alot of extra work just to keep everything tight? Do you add extra charges for houses where you have to do such many extra steps? Where i live we usually go 2$ per foot of trim. Is this close to what you guys charge over where you live ? Thanks for all your great work
Next Level, “seems like a lot of extra work just to keep everything tight”. When running tall base (or any base), is there anything more important than keeping it tight?
@@henrypeisch5289 Maybe let me rerphrase it - Why is it ok to just glue and clamp outter corners but inners must be coped? like why cant you glue and shim inners ?
You can glue…I suppose. It’s just not necessary. A proper cope is back cut (slight bevel). This can be done when hand cutting with a manual coping saw (old school), miter saw or with a grinder and disc. When back cutting (think about coping crown) your end grain surface area for glue on the cope is not very much. If walls and ceilings and floors and drywall inside and outside corners were plumb, level and square…back cutting would not be necessary. Job site conditions are what they are. So, put a slight bevel or back cut on anything that you want the face to look snug. On this base, I like the long or bottom cut with the miter saw, jig saw and then the grinder to work close to the line and back cut at the same time. Fast and easy. Just take it slow around your nubs.
Inside corners are going to be caulked with paint grade. Outside corners don't get that level of forgiveness. Caulk abosrbs movement on inside corners. On outside corners any movement will break the paint line unless it is glued.
@@InsiderCarpentry I understand thanks for the reply. I just meant if youre mitering outters then why not miter inners? Ive had to pre-glue some inside miters before cause the wall was way outta wack and the miters just wouldnt line up. Im just tryin to find out why people love coping so much and exactly where does it benefit over mitering? Since there could be separation from the wood movement i feel like 2 miters coming together could stay better than one side being all the way to the wall and the other is just a thin edge touching the side of the trim. Plus if youre caulking the inside corners i feel like it should also give your miters more strenght to hold together. Sorry for rambling but i just wanna find out more about the whole coping technique
Funny, I am doing 1x8 baseboard on the job I’m at now, with a flush casing detail (not fun). Almost all the trim we run is 3/4 poplar and I use 2” nails most the time for fear of hitting water lines also. Usually no issue for hold, if I need the extra holding power to persuade a piece I’ll throw in 2 1/2’s.
All the baseboard is scribed in this home, if you ever get a house with scribed base I’d be curious to see how your process differs from mine.
Do you mean scribed to the unevenness you may have on the flooring?
Yep
I have a job coming up shortly with same base, and scribed to floor, no shoe mold. Curious to hear your approach!
I'm no expert, I am still figuring out the best approach. But so far I've just been cutting a whole room like normal. Then set up a laser level, find high point in the floor, set my scribes to the distance from the top of the baseboard to the laser, set it parallel to the laser at the other end using my scribes, tack in place, scribe, cut. Block plane has been real handy as I can micro adjust without going back to the saw. Its been working out ok, the house I'm working on is probably the worst framing/drywall conditions I've ever seen, so that's making it tougher than it should.@@christianmallam4604
I would use 2 1/2" as long as I felt confident that the other trades on the job were conscientious enough to use nail plates where they should.
In my experience, nailing plates or the lack thereof are typically flagged during rough plumbing and electrical inspections by the respective sub-code officials. But several heads are better than one. If you do repeat work for a builder, and you can get in and see the frame before insulation and drywall, everyone is better off. Years ago, most good subs had a better handle on the other subs scope of work. But it’s a different industry now with much more specialization and an abundance of unseasoned help.
I think I said that nicely.
Why not a rabbit cut to the depth of the dado a small router sled or raidial arm saw with dado head? Nice work and great video.
Make a 1/4x1/4x1/2" square dowel basically and glue it in the hole after you square but then. Probably have to use a nail set to push them in flush.
Could you glue a little nubbin?
I like 2" nails almost always
2-1/2 nails for 3/4, I accaully use 2-1/2 for the thick side of casing
Some answers, some questions and a rant. Always thought that fasteners should penetrate a minimum 1” into the framing. I’m not sure I can point to any hard and fast rule off the top of my head but going to give my age away and say that we used hand nails for interior trim and millwork for a long time before the advent of pneumatics. So…with 1/2” drywall and 3/4” base, that’s a 7 penny nail. I’m not sure I have seen collated nails in 2 1/4”. They may exist but would go to 8 penny or 2 1/2” for your hitachi. If Samir thinks it’s a framing gun, might as well use 2 1/2” nails anyway and keep him thinking he’s a framer. Besides, you want overkill when you can have it because all trim guys rate high on the neurotic scale anyway. If you hit a wire or pipe, blame the sub. You only live once so, go long or don’t go at all. On the issue of cope vs miter vs butt and fill with this silly profile…cope, cope, cope. Why? Because base is almost always coped. You want to show the adjacent piece who’s boss. The right amount of pressure springing a piece of base into place will correct spackle nubs and correct for board tapers (the factory edge of the drywall) at the floor - when forced. It will straighten things out and force everything plumb. It would be embarrassing to butt or miter and have the painter follow you. They would lose all respect. Can’t have the painter disrespecting your work or asking if your new guys worked on the base. So, cope base with a back cut and snap the long pieces into place. I have always found it efficient to cope a bunch of pieces and stack them. It seems to take less time overall to do a bunch of repetitive tasks and then move to using the tape to cut lengths which is a different repetitive task. Crown…same thing. Unrelated, but some windows on this job have stool and apron and some don’t. Is that a second floor downgrade (no stool and apron). Big rant: Tell the architect and builder to drop ceiling heights upstairs but not stool and apron. Just curious on all the profiles if the shoe finishes proud of your fake backband on the casing or not. If so, is it back cut at 45 from the outermost corner of the backband or is there some other way you might terminate shoe into the backband on the casing. I hope not. As far as speed on the cope, I might do quick cuts with the jig saw and finish to the line with a grinder. No splinters and no chips to burnish or sand. And burnishing and sanding slows you down…almost as much as installing coffers backwards with the sides first. More than one rant in there. I hope I don’t get banned for that. Lol.
I shot a water line with a 2 1/2in 15g nail a couple months back. Installing a tall baseboard. 2x6 walls and the water line was RIGHT behind the drywall. That was not fun and the boss was not happy. That being said I don’t think 2 inch nails are enough. For big thick baseboards like that 15g for paint grade. 16g for pre finished and stain grade. 2 1/2 nails in my opinion
Would it make sense to rip the section with the dado off and install it separately as a base cap, that way it could be easily mitered and would hide any gaps at the top because it could be pushed up against the wall. Lower part can just be butt into each other. You’d lose a little to blade kerf but I don’t think that would really matter. What do you think?
The nice thing about one solid piece with this profile is that everything stays perfectly flush across the face. That's key with this detail. It might get off plane using a base cap.
@@InsiderCarpentry ok, makes sense for this application, nice tips on measuring
I usally cut my inside miters 45 and if they don't go together good I grind off some of the miter like I'm coping . this gives a little bit adjustment to get the joint to look good .in front . I don't do alot of base though I'm a cabinet guy so maybe not the best method.
Oh I run a Makita 12 “ mitersaw & drag that thing all around in my big Ford 3/4 ton van!
3/4" penetration into studs. Still more then some guys bother with, they who don't even hit studs.
Great video but next can we see how you cut very big crown next.. Let's see a solution for nested. Cutting flat takes too many compounds
When you exceed the nested capacity of your saw and don’t want to cut on the flat, make a box and use the hand saw (that’s the one without the cord). You are only limited by the size of a plywood sheet and the length of the hand saw. It is also possible to cut to capacity, flip the board and cut to capacity from the other direction and then finish the center with a hand saw (again, that’s the one without the cord). You won’t run into this very often. So improve your flat game. If the modern contemporary trend keeps Spencer busy, you may have to wait a while before you see another stick of crown.
On your short pieces with no copes that meet casing, 1/2 degree back cut 90 degrees on the end that meets the casing. This way, the face of the base will be tight to the casing. The other end where it meets the drywall, let the top edge lead and cheat the cut (a couple degrees off 90) so only the top of the profile touches the corner. The small pieces will fit better and the end butting drywall will be buried by your cope on the next piece as you work counter clockwise around the room…with wider base.
Not covered in this video but base at corner bead is typically never cut at a straight 45. Try 45 1/2 degrees. Some casing profiles benefit from a slight off 90 1/2 degree cut on base also. Nothing is typically square, plumb or level with the frame and interior drywall finish. Concentrate your attention on the face of the profile and the installation will look snug.
Instead of cross or scissor nails to hold the base off the wall, cope the return on the short piece and leave the whole piece a couple of inches longer than what your notepad reads. Position the cope and tap the end grain until the longer piece plumbs out with no gap at the bottom. Then mark and cut the left side to meet the side of your casing.
How do you cut outside corners with that material? I assume your cut needs to be greater than 45 degrees.
What if you made a jig so you could use a router to rabbet one board to the depth of the dado and the board thickness?
Bottom bearing rabbeting bit 3/4”. Set base of router/trimmer for 1/4” depth of cut. No jig necessary. Better, faster, easier. Just have to flush out the second board running into the corner. Use reverse thread GRK “top star” screw and PL to shim at screw location to push the board off the wall and snug to the rabbet of the adjacent board. Cut board flat right side, slide board on wings, grab trimmer and plow end, pull tape measure for cut list length, subtract light 1/2” and cut left side. Done, next board.
8' of 1/4" x 1/4" wooden key stock could have been used to fill the gap as well without all of the coping.
To avoid water and electric, scan wall with Wallabot or similar devices. The time it takes to scan ,which is quick, can save a lot of potential trouble.
Yeah, Wallabot does a great job of finding all kinds of pipes/conduits.
Where can I buy those baseboards ?
Dutchman strips?
I always use 2 1\2 on 3\4 base you need that holding strength and 2 just don't quite get it
What about adding that little nub on each piece?
Nail lengths are typically 3x the width of the material being fastened. I think this is an APA recommendation. I usually use adhesives, so 2" is fine.
I go 2.5 don’t you have to consider the thickness of the drywall? That would put it at 3” nail
@scottlagana2388 that would be 2 3/4 with the drywall. But with adhesives, it doesn't really matter.
What kind of adhesive do pros use for baseboard installation. Construction adhesive expands so i never like to use that stuff for light duty work.
@Faruk651 I haven't done trim professionally in several years. Loc-tite makes a good light duty adhesive. It cleans up with water, which is a plus. You could even just use an acrylic-latex caulking. The point of adhesives for me is just as much to air-seal as to glue.
I have 2 points I'm surprised not having seen brought up here yet.
1st: his issue in the inside corner and "scissor nailing" with the pry bar holding the peice in place. Any type of pressure put against that joint whether it be furniture or someone kicking it because that piece of Furniture being pushed up against the baseboard will cause the baseboard to just push back and rest against the drywall bringing you back to square one with a opening in your joint whether it's before or after painting (often noticed once nailing in shoe mold and firing a nail pushing the Baseboard back and opening up the joint again). Grk screws has a reverse thread trim screw that allows you to drive the screw in to the material just below the surface, then back out the screw and will pull the piece of trim off the drywall tight to your coped peice butting into it. Kick the peice where the screw is and its rock solid!
2nd point: I generally prefer cutting my base on the flat regardless of height which I know is uncommon, but I find it way less labor-intensive than wrestling with the pieces to keep them standing up and keeping them sitting strongly flat on the base of the saw (I don't have those fancy miter saw wings YET). But also prefer it because you can easily put your saw on a 45 degree bevel towards whichever side of the piece you're trying to put the cope on. Then put your baseboard upside down with the bottom of the baseboard up against the fence of the saw. Make the cut on the desired side of the baseboard (exposing the profile like spencer demonstrated) THEN simply flip the peice back over so the finish face is now up (top profile now against the fence), and make the cut (on the 45 degree bevel still, cuz why not?) and make the cut on the flat section of the baseboard eliminating the need to cope that section. Then, cope the rest however you see fit.
Hope this helps someone some where. Love the videos Spencer, you're a huge influence and admire your work and outlook on things. Keep it up man!
Both points were addressed. Just in a different way. You shouldn’t be surprised if you haven’t read through all the comments. If your painter likes to fill screw heads, use the GRK method. But better to force your tall base plumb. Maybe a good time to put some wings on your saw. 😎
Possibly a confusing double negative in there. If you read all the comments, then you could be surprised. But if you had read them, you would not have commented that you were surprised. Not intended to be offensive. It’s probably just my personality. But on the topic of being surprised, I might be if you weren’t offended. Most trimmers are a bit sensitive to criticism. Part of what makes you try for excellence in your trade.
But, I suppose with 3/4” base, you could place a GRK close enough to the end of the board so that it is covered by your adjacent coped piece. But then if I kicked it, it would move. Maybe I have heavy feet. Not sure. Then the painter would have something to say.
Yeah I definately didn't read all 180+ comments. Quick scan and most spoke on the nail length and diff ways to tackle the cope (dowel method etc). Wasn't interested in those. Musta slipped through my scanning of the comments.
The grk screw gets placed low enough for the shoe molding to cover, no need to be taken care of by a painter.
I think I'd be inclined to just do square cuts and ca glue a nub on where necessary.
Pro tip for ya:
Install the baseboard before the door casing… Cut a jig 3/16” wider then the casing. Then hold it flat against the wall and even on the inside of the jamb and mark the wall…Now just measure to the line for your baseboard and install it… Now install the casing holding it against the baseboard, it will automatically leave a reveal of 3/16 +/-(within tolerance) at the jamb.
You don’t have to be nearly as accurate with your measuring… Like for example: 82 5/8” big or 82 5/8” small… just cut it 82 5/8…
I do the whole house this way… Set the doors and mark the wall… Then baseboard, then casing… Easier and way faster for me…
I absolutely hate baseboard, so anything that makes it easier… I’ve been doing this for several years… I don’t know why this is not the norm
i cut all baseboard on the flat with my 10" hitachi, cope right, coping saw
I'm a fan of 2 1/2", but one of my guys did hit a water line once... It was a mess...
2.5”