Saying he's not a member makes no sense. Reading the minutes from the previous meeting is standard procedure, especially if there are questions about previous business.
Where did Platt go? Shouldn't he be running this thing? Most congregational churches, the lead pastor is the moderator. Love your channel BTW. About to start reading your book.
Kudos to this gentleman trying to get the minutes read from previous meeting. Obviously there were things that happened that the public congregation should know about.
Just a reminder for elders who become elitists with agendas, if you do not communicate with your members and ignore their concerns, you will create a toxic environment. Sadly, this type of thing just happened to our church of many years. They lost a sizable portion of the church because they were dogmatic, secretive, unconcerned, then cried "unity" whenever someone questioned leadership or doctrine. Seek the approval of God, not the praise of the community or cultural zeitgeist.
We just went through it too. Heartbreaking. Jeremiah 23 King James Version 23 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord.
These are all 501C3 pagan buildings owned by the government . God gave us the King James Bible., we don’t need pagan buildings, Acts 7:48 The most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands.
This is just another unfortunate tragedy slowly unfolding in a religious organization that has apparently lost its way. I'll just leave it at that. It makes me beyond sick.
I live in Northern VA and I have been attending McLean Bible Church for years. However, their way of treating this man and trying to silence his input, tells me everything I need to know. The church is trying to hide something. So I’m never attending here again
Exactly. I see more Americanism (with its independent, me-first, polemic spirit) than I see Christlikeness. Roberts Rules of Order are not necessarily the embodiment of the Fruit of the Spirit, nor the Scriptures themselves-although we Americans will appeal to it in the Body of Christ when things go sideways. There is a higher calling, people. We are first citizens of The Kingdom of Heaven which calls us to a higher standard. WWJD? I didn’t see that concern embodied in any person responding in that video.
@@jdavies212msu I think that asking what "did" Jesus do is more helpful. When His Fathers house was used as a den of thieves, He flipped the tables and made sure everyone knew that they were disgracing the name of God. In fact, throughout the gospels, Jesus is never sweet and happy-go-lucky during times similar to this. Just look at the way He addressed the Pharisees who were doing very similar things as the "leadership" in this church.
@@Bibleguy89-uu3nrJesus was doing all these acts of harsh judgement as God (He had the authority) and exposing evil motives as God (He could see into men’s hearts). The church video: None of the humans involved in this scenario have none of these divine attributes to know and act on this with the same authority or ability of Jesus Christ. Your extrapolation goes too far. Plus, this is whole context is within a body of believers. Jesus’ action was toward unbelievers. The way we act toward these very different two groups (believers and unbelievers) have different boundaries and levels of expected relationship-driven behaviors. Plus the realization that we cannot act with the same authority and ability of God Himself. Your analogy breaks down at these points. It’s apples and oranges. God dealing with unbelievers and open corruption vs. believers dealing with each other within a church family. There is a whole other level of behavior and attitude expected here. Start with 1 Corinthians 13, and then work your way through the many more passages which deal with confrontation, rebuke, and discipline within a church family. The approach we saw in that video, and the attitudes of many in that congregation were no reflection at all of these biblical values. I mostly witnessed what appeared to be arrogance, callousness, and self-righteous attitudes. They brought complete shame on the church before the watching world. They are a stumbling block to weaker believers. This church needs deep repentance from all sides, followed by a restoration based on loving and mutually-submissive relationships. .
@@jdavies212msu You asked "What would Jesus do?" So I answered the question directly with a Biblical example. Why ask WWJD is you're forbidden from doing it? Jesus was not dealing with unbelievers (though technically speaking He was) He was dealing with the leaders of the Temple, which is very similar to the situation here. They are exploiting Gods holy church for selfish gain (popularity, money, power etc.). I am not literally suggesting that this man flip over the church seats, only that he is well within his right and even his duty as a church member to call out deception and false teaching, especially considering that this leadership has divided the church with woke doctrine and manipulation. The only place I disagree with MBC is that they have brought on a lawsuit which Paul directly prohibits among believers in 1 Cor 6.
How do you have a meeting like this in the middle of worship to begin with? How would you even expect people to be like praising the Lord one min, casting vote the next, then expected to continue worshiping? 🤔
@@sorenpx then save it for after worship and sermon. It isn't hard to make that announcement at the beginning that there will be a meeting to discuss house issues before people leave. 🤷🏼♀️
@@robbinsnest6163 and @Paul Crompton I guess you're right. Though after seeing this, the timing of the procedure seems like the least of this church's problems.
I am so grateful that a church is fighting back against corruption and woke-ness. This is the biggest threat to the church since the reformation, and I hope members of other churches with deceiving leaders will stand up for the gospel. I also hope that those who are on the fence about whether to be woke or not will learn from this, and understand that this will destroy churches.
David Platt is a biblically disqualified pastor for lying and for spiritually abusing his flock via "lording" his authority over the flock, a violation of the requirements for pastors in 1 Peter 5:3. Period. He did this to himself! His intentions might have been good, like to further the Gospel and missions, but he should not have handled it in such a way that he let his "good" be evil spoken of.
This is on David Platt…you have the eyes of many in the faith on you right now and you may be able to ram this through in MBC but I promise you when you stand before God, this won’t be brushed off lightly.
When a congregant brings a point of order and further addresses allegations of sexual indecency and immorality, an elder shouldn't delay the issue. If those allegations are concerning candidates for church office, they are unqualified, and the allegations should be made public.
@@claybrogdon3846 Seems Platt values equity/diversity of races in a church body as the ultimate sign of a healthy church (whether its representative of the surrounding population or not). They really want more black people to attend and he seems to blame white people as well as for a long list of disparities he reasons are our fault. I left when he blamed all white Christians for the economic/educational/incarceration/etc disparity in America without actually proving how we did any of that. Its nonsensical rhetoric which has its basis in CRT. My multi-ethnic family left because we grew tired of being attacked for something we didn't do. Not going to raise my daughter and son to believe their white half is fully bad but their asian half is semi-ok. Funny part is the demographic around MBC isn't black.. its less than 10% but they have still pushed for forced diversity through the pastor/etc hires and outreach. Our area is overflowing with latin american immigrants atleast 15% (not including illegals who typically don't respond to census) yet they won't focus on that demographic hardly at all. To be honest I don't believe we should focus on demographics at all, we should just be looking who around us isn't saved and engage them. Not pick out specific ones.
I left in 2017 (along with a couple of friends) after having attended and actively served at that church for 21 years. Trouble was already evident back then.
Keep praying Kevin… because of your prayers the world child mortality has been dropping over the years!! Because of your prayers and definitely Not the advancement in the Science/Medical field. Thankyou for bringing that to your sky buddy’s attention… 😳😏
The moderator was the problem here. He should have listened to the point of order, and then announced that previous business was not part of the agenda for the special meeting. Done.
I think the point of order was actually a point of privilege (the guy didn't know that); however, as a point of privilege that is allowable even during a special called meeting as it deals with the health of the organization. "This rule, however, does not preclude the consideration of privileged motions, or of any subsidiary, incidental, or other motions that may arise in connection with the transaction of such business or the conduct of the meeting.” RONR (12th ed.) 9:15
I live in Northern VA and I have been attending McLean Bible Church for years. However, their way of treating this man and trying to silence his input, tells me everything I need to know. The church is trying to hide something. So I’m never attending here again
This is a prime example to never church hop and go ONLY to the part of the Body of Christ God assigns you to be harmonious without confrontation and division
"Jim, you're not being Christlike...." Ugh just shows that people in this church have no idea what Christ is like. And that is a reflection on the leadership.
This is what happens when an "Independent" church - preacher and family has all the power and answers to no one. Happens 100% of the time - eventually someone starts asking questions.
Same thing is happening at Christian fellowship center in northern New York. Rick Sinclair and his family run a dictatorship disguised as a charismatic church but it’s become a cult.
This is nothing short of a three ring circus. All sides have humiliated the name of Christ, and themselves. What if a non believer had attended for the first time that morning? Who in their right mind would return? What is their impression of 'christians" (Christ followers) now? This is unbiblical on every level, on every side. Who would be so stupid as to schedule this vote/meeting at a time set aside to present Christ in Word and song? Platt is managing to tear this church apart, as well as over zealous members that think MBC is "their church". No it is NOT. It is God's church. I have a very simple solution. Agree to disagree, walk away and go find a solid small bible teaching church that needs help and attend there. MBC is not the only church there. I am convinced now, more than ever that the mega church 'movement' is dangerous and not biblical.
Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down.'" Mark 13:2, NLT: "Jesus replied, 'Yes, look at these great buildings. But they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!'"
We are all equal in the body. If a part of the body has an issue it should be addressed. I think it is inappropriate for the church to ignore their congregants. However, I do understand that God is a God of order.
@THE MOST TARGETED CITIZEN and your church skipped 2000yrs. It’s easy to make fun of the losing team in the super bowl, when you’ve never been. Or as GK Chesterton said “Those who only want victory, will always be late for battle.” You’re late
The use of music during this is a psychological method to manipulate people to do things in a particular way. McLean seems to be on the verge, if not already, of New Age.
Is this a southern Baptist church if it is it needs to be removed from roll an they need to clean this up. This is the most ungodly thing I have ever seen in a church.
Wow reminds me exactly what happened at my old church and how they ran things. Not to mention lying to the church that our pastor resigned when they pretty much fired him with an external hr company. Wolves are in the church. Watch out for them. Clearly some here that have gotten control of this church.
It's hard to understand how Pastor David Platt preaching to wealthy members of his church to "sell, and give to the poor" is to be criticized. Jesus did it, and these are the people who need to hear it most.
Platt lives in an $800,000 house bought for him by the church, earns a well into the six figure salary and when he visited the border to "tour" it a couple of years ago flew first class across country. His preaching on being "Radical" would be far more serious if he didn't live the Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous.
@@capstonereport6407 in northern Virginia, $800,000 will get you a house that a plumber would have lived in in the 60's, so that's not a fair critique. Also, complaining about flying first class? Really? I think everyone has done that at least once or twice in their life. It's not like they bough him a lambo and a private jet.
I don't know much about the situation at McLean Bible Church, and since I'm not a member there, it's none of my business. However, I do think the gentleman who raised the objection should review his parliamentary procedure. A point of order is where you call attention to a breach of the rules. If he had a point of order or a question (and the latter seems to be the case), he should have asked it before the vote was taken. I know "Robert's Rules of Order" can be difficult to understand, so I recommend Barry McCarty's "A Parliamentary Guide for Church Leaders". It explains parliamentary procedure in very simple terms. Once you understand the procedure, it becomes easier to beat certain people at their own games.
Not reading the minutes from the previous congregational meeting was a breach according to Robert's Rules. If they were indeed following them. The rules of entering in the minutes state "The Chair should ask: 'Are there any corrections to the minutes?' After all corrections have been offered, the Chair then asks: 'Are there any further corrections?' If none are offered, then the Chair states: 'There being no further corrections, the minutes stand approved as read'" This seems like a simple point-of-order request to me that got blown way out of proportion due to the factors that none of us know about by looking at this video. The leadership of this church seem to be violating 1 Corinthians 6, but God will sort it out in due time. Pray for them for they are suffering.
Jim: "I wanna talk about adultery. I wanna talk about fornication.." Pastor: (uh oh) "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you [...] In the name of our Lord Jesus [...] turn such a person over to Satan for the destruction of his body, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord." --- 1 Cor 5 Sounds like someone needs to be kicked out of the church... not promoted.
@@justjeph6927 except, if it's an elder and the charge two or more witnesses (1Tim 5:19-20). I don't know the details of the allegations in this case. But if it is against an elder and there are atleast 2 witnesses, this is the correct scriptural direction
Can someone please explain to me how this is trespassing? The church is open to anyone who wants to attend. Also, I assume Jim is a member of the church, which even more allows him to be there. Also, the church building is paid for by people giving money, so the building actually belongs to the members. So, how is he trespassing? So is this a dictatorship? Do what the leaders say or you will be escorted out? I recommend all Christians leave this place (I would call it a church, but it is not, it is a business) Do not walk, run, fast!
Looks like a control issue here. The ominous sounding synthesizer airplane drone sound in the background doesn't help, very creepy. If you're going to have a business meeting, it should be conducted under rules of order. Appears to be a power play by the pastor and staff. What a shameful mess, whatever is going on.
It doesn’t take long to realize and recognize that the “church” is nothing more than that small body of elders and pastors that makes the decisions for a large group of sheep that they need to control and maintain control of.
Some elders were not voted into the church because there were allegations of fornication. Platt ripped into the congregation because he said these allegations were misinformation. This guy calls a point of order to read the minutes from the last meeting (I guess because he thought they maybe revealed something important). A member in most churches is typically allowed to bring up a point of order in a congregational meeting. As a sidenote doing a meeting like this during a worship service is weird and probably wrong. They blocked his point of order (which I don't think you're allowed to do normally, that's not how it works). It seems like MBC is using strongarm tactics unless this is all taken way out of context and is a big misunderstanding.
So is this meeting about C.R.T.? or is it about becoming WOKE? I hard this meeting was about this church adopting both of these world views, and teaching them.
Currently reading Blue and White's book on church discipline and Platt and company definitely should be ashamed of themselves. I am a huge fan of Platt and had two books of his. I heard about this awhile back and kept researching on it ....this is simply heartbreaking.
This was not the meeting, they already had the meeting and the election for the elders. It happens in one shot, they have the meeting and then they vote. The church constitution states that if there is not an 80% majority consensus for electing elders, then they do a re-vote as soon as possible. For the first time, they did not get an 80% majority. It was something like 78%. They were following the church constitution which says "re-vote" it does not say that they do another meeting and a re-vote... JUST A RE-VOTE. They chose to do the re-vote after this particular service and it was announced as such and people showed up to attend the service and then to vote. This video was calculated social media propaganda, made to look like MBC was having a meeting, this was not the case, it was a re-vote. This church being right in Metro DC, has many people who have studied the political theater well, they have money, and they're willing to use all of it... if they don't get their way. Total false outrage, false optics, filmed in just the right way to make it look like he was being silenced during a meeting...and boy was it effective. Here is a direct quote from a former elder that can give some insight into why the behavior of this small faction is patently unbiblical... "the church we built". Sorry folks you didn't build a thing, God built MBC, not you. And that is the crux of your issue, it's all about "your church" and the people in it... and not about Christ and His gospel. God is going to give them all a cosmic smack down. What they've tried to do to Dr.David Platt and Pastor Mike Kelsey is satanic, demonic, and self centered. Woe to you folks. I love you, but woe to you. 😞
Politics in Church. Adultery, fornication and financial misappropriation. All in one Church wawu. Will God meet salvation (FAITH) on earth when he comes back?
Such shady behavior sneaking this in during worship, and praise.... a real meeting is where people discuss things, but their voices were shut down, and even placed a trespass on a congregant who stood up to speak and be heard. It sounds the crowd was on board with him. This literally reminds me of our corrupt government. What a disgusting power play, for whatever agenda they are wanting to push. I pray for those in the middle of this turmoil, and I hope a better more healthy relationship can be had within the church... but I have a feeling a new church will be started by those who oppose this behavior. #wokechurch will fall.
An Gel I’m sure he did. They voted against these three elders and then there they are trying to get people to vote during worship for the people they voted agaisnt
Too many men in leadership positions never speak out against things they see are wrong to not lose their position. We need men to be loyal to the congregation they are supposed to represent!!
There truly is alot of discord in the body of Christ today. We always Christians need to come together and stop letting these little power struggles divide us. We need to be more like the body described in the Bible loving one another supporting one another. We all need to let the holy Spirit lead us and sometimes it means swallowing our pride and sometimes it means speaking up. But my prayers are with this church and the people in it I hope that they can come together again and not be divided God bless my brothers and sisters.
Ok - I admit to not knowing everything that is going on here. But what is it with the guy in the short-sleeved flak jacket (or whatever you call it) Why would anybody wear that to church in the first place??? I have my own ideas on the answer to that, but will stay silent for the time being…..
He is part of the FirstResponder/Security team. He is wired with radios and earphones. I heard him call for "Fairfax" which is likely the Fairfax County police which arrived a few minutes later (since that were in the church lobby, there were about 4 armed officers there that day). He would not be allowed to stand around like that if he was not part of the security detail. Also, the church security has concealed carry arms as well. The large amount of security is partly owing to the fact of death threats by nut jobs, plus US Senators, Congressmen, Cabinet members, and Occasionally the Vice President and the President of the USA occasionally drop in. I myself sas up in the balcony that morning.
God told his Prophet's he is going after the Churches that are NOT aligned in his Spirit. Where's God in this Church? Is the Holy Spirit and the nine gifts in the building? If it's not brothers and sisters you need to leave and find a Church indeed blessed by God and his Prophet's
Definitely not the New Testament way. I used to attend MBC back in the old days when they first met in a school. They have definitely lost their way since then, in my humble opinion.
Wow… Lon would have never allowed this type of crap. McLean has really gone down hill. I used to have a lot of respect for David Platt… now it seems he has gone the way of the Pharisees.
"You are not being Christ-like." If you want him to be Christ-like, I'm sure flipping tables and making a scourge of cords is not out of the question
💯 🎯
So you think Christ lied, scammed believers, and ran a money laundering slush fund. Weirdo.
Jim is a hero. Hard to do what he did in the face of such opposition.
Jim Luther
Sad. Calling the police on a member with a legitimate point of order.
The epitome of church corruption.
Ah…but he’s never been a member.
@@teremaher6611 doesn't matter if he is a member or not. Handling things that way is shameful. The man wasn't asking for anything unreasonable.
Saying he's not a member makes no sense. Reading the minutes from the previous meeting is standard procedure, especially if there are questions about previous business.
@@teremaher6611 He is a member. This guy is just trolling.
It's David Platt's way, or the highway. You either conform to Platt's ideology, or they'll kick you out of the church. This is not a real pastor.
so a church member is tresppassing if the leadership doesnt like the motion. nice.
Hope to have video of the crazy threat from the platform of arrest to anyone who moves which was done at the June 30 meeting.
The audience figured out they could also ask the security guard to leave.
Where did Platt go? Shouldn't he be running this thing? Most congregational churches, the lead pastor is the moderator. Love your channel BTW. About to start reading your book.
@@BJHorne1689 chairman of the elder board runs meetings. Platt works for him.
Kudos to this gentleman trying to get the minutes read from previous meeting. Obviously there were things that happened that the public congregation should know about.
Just a reminder for elders who become elitists with agendas, if you do not communicate with your members and ignore their concerns, you will create a toxic environment. Sadly, this type of thing just happened to our church of many years. They lost a sizable portion of the church because they were dogmatic, secretive, unconcerned, then cried "unity" whenever someone questioned leadership or doctrine.
Seek the approval of God, not the praise of the community or cultural zeitgeist.
We just went through it too. Heartbreaking. Jeremiah 23
King James Version
23 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord.
They don’t care.
They seek POWER
These are all 501C3 pagan buildings owned by the government . God gave us the King James Bible., we don’t need pagan buildings, Acts 7:48 The most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands.
A "Point of Order" in a congregational meeting is valid. The moderator was wrong in denying his request. Period.
This is just another unfortunate tragedy slowly unfolding in a religious organization that has apparently lost its way. I'll just leave it at that. It makes me beyond sick.
I live in Northern VA and I have been attending McLean Bible Church for years. However, their way of treating this man and trying to silence his input, tells me everything I need to know. The church is trying to hide something. So I’m never attending here again
That’s called a church split. And that church is now dead.
Wolves love the sheep pen.
You nailed it !!!
Where is Platt?
Become eastern orthodox
@@TrollDemN00bs Eastern Orthodox have five popes
Never heard of a family with 5 dads
“I raise a point of order - in the presence of my enemies … “
A member who is present at a member meeting is trespassing? How does that logic work?
So heart wrenching to see a church so divided. Pray the gospel regain center stage there.
Exactly. I see more Americanism (with its independent, me-first, polemic spirit) than I see Christlikeness.
Roberts Rules of Order are not necessarily the embodiment of the Fruit of the Spirit, nor the Scriptures themselves-although we Americans will appeal to it in the Body of Christ when things go sideways. There is a higher calling, people. We are first citizens of The Kingdom of Heaven which calls us to a higher standard.
WWJD? I didn’t see that concern embodied in any person responding in that video.
@@jdavies212msu I think that asking what "did" Jesus do is more helpful. When His Fathers house was used as a den of thieves, He flipped the tables and made sure everyone knew that they were disgracing the name of God. In fact, throughout the gospels, Jesus is never sweet and happy-go-lucky during times similar to this. Just look at the way He addressed the Pharisees who were doing very similar things as the "leadership" in this church.
@@Bibleguy89-uu3nrJesus was doing all these acts of harsh judgement as God (He had the authority) and exposing evil motives as God (He could see into men’s hearts).
The church video: None of the humans involved in this scenario have none of these divine attributes to know and act on this with the same authority or ability of Jesus Christ. Your extrapolation goes too far. Plus, this is whole context is within a body of believers. Jesus’ action was toward unbelievers.
The way we act toward these very different two groups (believers and unbelievers) have different boundaries and levels of expected relationship-driven behaviors. Plus the realization that we cannot act with the same authority and ability of God Himself.
Your analogy breaks down at these points. It’s apples and oranges. God dealing with unbelievers and open corruption vs. believers dealing with each other within a church family.
There is a whole other level of behavior and attitude expected here. Start with 1 Corinthians 13, and then work your way through the many more passages which deal with confrontation, rebuke, and discipline within a church family.
The approach we saw in that video, and the attitudes of many in that congregation were no reflection at all of these biblical values. I mostly witnessed what appeared to be arrogance, callousness, and self-righteous attitudes. They brought complete shame on the church before the watching world. They are a stumbling block to weaker believers.
This church needs deep repentance from all sides, followed by a restoration based on loving and mutually-submissive relationships. .
@@jdavies212msu You asked "What would Jesus do?" So I answered the question directly with a Biblical example. Why ask WWJD is you're forbidden from doing it? Jesus was not dealing with unbelievers (though technically speaking He was) He was dealing with the leaders of the Temple, which is very similar to the situation here. They are exploiting Gods holy church for selfish gain (popularity, money, power etc.). I am not literally suggesting that this man flip over the church seats, only that he is well within his right and even his duty as a church member to call out deception and false teaching, especially considering that this leadership has divided the church with woke doctrine and manipulation. The only place I disagree with MBC is that they have brought on a lawsuit which Paul directly prohibits among believers in 1 Cor 6.
@@jdavies212msu I think you summed that up spiritually, practically, and thoroughly...
So, parliamentary procedure according to church bylaws doesn't apply? A valid point of order must be recognized.
How do you have a meeting like this in the middle of worship to begin with? How would you even expect people to be like praising the Lord one min, casting vote the next, then expected to continue worshiping? 🤔
That’s the biggest problem with mega churches. A very low regard for the integrity of worship.
I don't have a problem with it for the simple fact that a worship service is when the most people will be in attendance.
@@sorenpx then save it for after worship and sermon. It isn't hard to make that announcement at the beginning that there will be a meeting to discuss house issues before people leave. 🤷🏼♀️
@@sorenpx you could do it immediately following, after the benediction. Not during though…
@@robbinsnest6163 and @Paul Crompton I guess you're right. Though after seeing this, the timing of the procedure seems like the least of this church's problems.
Wow 40 years at this “church” and you get treated like a criminal. A beautiful dream becomes a livelihood becomes a business becomes a racket.
I am so grateful that a church is fighting back against corruption and woke-ness. This is the biggest threat to the church since the reformation, and I hope members of other churches with deceiving leaders will stand up for the gospel. I also hope that those who are on the fence about whether to be woke or not will learn from this, and understand that this will destroy churches.
David Platt is a biblically disqualified pastor for lying and for spiritually abusing his flock via "lording" his authority over the flock, a violation of the requirements for pastors in 1 Peter 5:3. Period. He did this to himself! His intentions might have been good, like to further the Gospel and missions, but he should not have handled it in such a way that he let his "good" be evil spoken of.
"Lead us in a song" How about some humility and repentance?
I feel for the brothers and sisters fighting back against “Big Eva” they don’t like that. Platt should be ashamed of himself.
What did Platt do?
MBC members fighting in public should be ashamed of themselves.
This is on David Platt…you have the eyes of many in the faith on you right now and you may be able to ram this through in MBC but I promise you when you stand before God, this won’t be brushed off lightly.
When a congregant brings a point of order and further addresses allegations of sexual indecency and immorality, an elder shouldn't delay the issue. If those allegations are concerning candidates for church office, they are unqualified, and the allegations should be made public.
I left about 2 years ago, because I knew this was coming. Larry Cooper is not a good man. MBC has poor leadership.
I wish you and others like you would have spoken up publicly 2 years ago. I wish you all would have shared your concerns with a greater body of us.
What is Platt’s motivation here? He’s literally destroying this church but for what end?
I believe he wants to remove anyone biblical from the church rolls who is concerned with the direction Platt is taking the church.
@@claybrogdon3846 Seems Platt values equity/diversity of races in a church body as the ultimate sign of a healthy church (whether its representative of the surrounding population or not). They really want more black people to attend and he seems to blame white people as well as for a long list of disparities he reasons are our fault. I left when he blamed all white Christians for the economic/educational/incarceration/etc disparity in America without actually proving how we did any of that. Its nonsensical rhetoric which has its basis in CRT.
My multi-ethnic family left because we grew tired of being attacked for something we didn't do. Not going to raise my daughter and son to believe their white half is fully bad but their asian half is semi-ok. Funny part is the demographic around MBC isn't black.. its less than 10% but they have still pushed for forced diversity through the pastor/etc hires and outreach. Our area is overflowing with latin american immigrants atleast 15% (not including illegals who typically don't respond to census) yet they won't focus on that demographic hardly at all. To be honest I don't believe we should focus on demographics at all, we should just be looking who around us isn't saved and engage them. Not pick out specific ones.
I left in 2017 (along with a couple of friends) after having attended and actively served at that church for 21 years. Trouble was already evident back then.
His request seems appropriate? Why are they trying to silence him?
This isn't a church. This is a corporation meeting
I am going to pray because I don't know the full context of the meeting. However to do it in the midst of a worship service is definitely wrong.
Keep praying Kevin… because of your prayers the world child mortality has been dropping over the years!! Because of your prayers and definitely Not the advancement in the Science/Medical field. Thankyou for bringing that to your sky buddy’s attention… 😳😏
I shepherd and lead a healthy, elder-led congregation and we are looking for a new building to grow into. Maybe this one will be available soon?
Jim any church would be honored to have someone like you brother.
Here because of the documentary.
Much love to everyone hurt by this situation
This is your church on CRT.
Yes!
Absolutely
guy at podium: I will now ask DJ to come up and lead us with a song
DJ: 😳
DJ: 😬
Jim is possibly the only one acting Christ like
MBC is pulling some shady things. This congragent is simply wanting transparency.
Weren't they supposed to bring forth "additional" nominees? Not the same ones?
That's a legit point of order.... So the worship service, became a congregational meeting to cast votes? .... That point of order is legit!
Two sides to every story, I suppose, but I cannot tell you how much I despise polity decisions/processes tied to worship. Just awful.
The moderator was the problem here. He should have listened to the point of order, and then announced that previous business was not part of the agenda for the special meeting. Done.
I think the point of order was actually a point of privilege (the guy didn't know that); however, as a point of privilege that is allowable even during a special called meeting as it deals with the health of the organization.
"This rule, however, does not preclude the consideration of privileged motions, or of any subsidiary, incidental, or other motions that may arise in connection with the transaction of such business or the conduct of the meeting.” RONR (12th ed.) 9:15
This is what happens when sin enters into the church. Like in many churches the elders and pastor rule and the members have no voice.
True ❤️😭
Well the ominous din of the background keyboard sure is fitting
Ikr it's crazy
I live in Northern VA and I have been attending McLean Bible Church for years. However, their way of treating this man and trying to silence his input, tells me everything I need to know. The church is trying to hide something. So I’m never attending here again
What's up with the synth music during this...seems really weird.
This is a prime example to never church hop and go ONLY to the part of the Body of Christ God assigns you to be harmonious without confrontation and division
Good for him. That takes a lot of courage.
This is sick. Playing games in a church. Where is Platt???
I'm guessing he's crying over his privilege behind the stage.
He’s perpetuating it!
He’s hiding like Al Capone so his hands can seem clean
"Jim, you're not being Christlike...." Ugh just shows that people in this church have no idea what Christ is like. And that is a reflection on the leadership.
Maybe if Jim had flipped over a few tables... XD
This is what happens when an "Independent" church - preacher and family has all the power and answers to no one. Happens 100% of the time - eventually someone starts asking questions.
Same thing is happening at Christian fellowship center in northern New York. Rick Sinclair and his family run a dictatorship disguised as a charismatic church but it’s become a cult.
This is nothing short of a three ring circus. All sides have humiliated the name of Christ, and themselves. What if a non believer had attended for the first time that morning? Who in their right mind would return? What is their impression of 'christians" (Christ followers) now? This is unbiblical on every level, on every side. Who would be so stupid as to schedule this vote/meeting at a time set aside to present Christ in Word and song? Platt is managing to tear this church apart, as well as over zealous members that think MBC is "their church". No it is NOT. It is God's church. I have a very simple solution. Agree to disagree, walk away and go find a solid small bible teaching church that needs help and attend there. MBC is not the only church there. I am convinced now, more than ever that the mega church 'movement' is dangerous and not biblical.
wow this is shameful
How do you trespass in your own church
And what’s with that dramatic moaning music???
Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down.'" Mark 13:2, NLT: "Jesus replied, 'Yes, look at these great buildings. But they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!'"
so sad to see this happen to what once was a great church
We are all equal in the body. If a part of the body has an issue it should be addressed. I think it is inappropriate for the church to ignore their congregants. However, I do understand that God is a God of order.
This is what happens when the church becomes a business. Not necessarily the Lord's business.
Key word spoke.....”Business Meeting”. The western Church has become a business, period.
This is the Bride of Christ.
The Catholic Church is not a business period.
@@PInk77W1 lol sure...
@THE MOST TARGETED CITIZEN and your church skipped 2000yrs. It’s easy to make fun of the losing team in the super bowl, when you’ve never been. Or as GK Chesterton said
“Those who only want victory, will always be late for battle.”
You’re late
I want to know what the beef was!
The use of music during this is a psychological method to manipulate people to do things in a particular way. McLean seems to be on the verge, if not already, of New Age.
God help this church.
Order in a public meeting is not “silencing” the disorderly. I pray you all can work out your problems in an orderly way.
What are they trying to hide?
What is that weird humming noise?
look on the church's screen at 6:41
Good catch! I hadn’t noticed that.
What ? I don’t see anything. Oh ok
The little meeting. LoL
Worship Leader: Come on let’s worship together! 😂
The sustained c2/f2 ambient music was mesmerizing.
Lol yep, as if The Spirit needs us to set the mood for Him.
All i have to say is, many are called but few are chosen..
Is this a southern Baptist church if it is it needs to be removed from roll an they need to clean this up. This is the most ungodly thing I have ever seen in a church.
Wow reminds me exactly what happened at my old church and how they ran things. Not to mention lying to the church that our pastor resigned when they pretty much fired him with an external hr company. Wolves are in the church. Watch out for them. Clearly some here that have gotten control of this church.
It's hard to understand how Pastor David Platt preaching to wealthy members of his church to "sell, and give to the poor" is to be criticized. Jesus did it, and these are the people who need to hear it most.
Platt lives in an $800,000 house bought for him by the church, earns a well into the six figure salary and when he visited the border to "tour" it a couple of years ago flew first class across country. His preaching on being "Radical" would be far more serious if he didn't live the Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous.
That's a strawman. None of the controversy has anything to do with what you just said. That's not what he's being critiqued for.
@@nikkowood4476 I was actually responding to a criticism posted here that I thought was unfair as I thought about it later. Don't want to argue.
@@capstonereport6407 in northern Virginia, $800,000 will get you a house that a plumber would have lived in in the 60's, so that's not a fair critique. Also, complaining about flying first class? Really? I think everyone has done that at least once or twice in their life. It's not like they bough him a lambo and a private jet.
He could have used points.
I don't know much about the situation at McLean Bible Church, and since I'm not a member there, it's none of my business. However, I do think the gentleman who raised the objection should review his parliamentary procedure. A point of order is where you call attention to a breach of the rules. If he had a point of order or a question (and the latter seems to be the case), he should have asked it before the vote was taken. I know "Robert's Rules of Order" can be difficult to understand, so I recommend Barry McCarty's "A Parliamentary Guide for Church Leaders". It explains parliamentary procedure in very simple terms. Once you understand the procedure, it becomes easier to beat certain people at their own games.
Not reading the minutes from the previous congregational meeting was a breach according to Robert's Rules. If they were indeed following them. The rules of entering in the minutes state "The Chair should ask: 'Are there any corrections to the minutes?' After all corrections have been offered, the Chair then asks: 'Are there any further corrections?' If none are offered, then the Chair states: 'There being no further corrections, the minutes stand approved as read'" This seems like a simple point-of-order request to me that got blown way out of proportion due to the factors that none of us know about by looking at this video. The leadership of this church seem to be violating 1 Corinthians 6, but God will sort it out in due time. Pray for them for they are suffering.
@@MalcolmVanAtta If the gentleman was using the point of order privilege simply to get the floor, then he was out of order.
Jim: "I wanna talk about adultery. I wanna talk about fornication.."
Pastor: (uh oh)
"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you [...] In the name of our Lord Jesus [...] turn such a person over to Satan for the destruction of his body, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord." --- 1 Cor 5
Sounds like someone needs to be kicked out of the church... not promoted.
Maybe, but done Biblically according to Christ's procedure for church discipline Matt. 18
@@justjeph6927 except, if it's an elder and the charge two or more witnesses (1Tim 5:19-20). I don't know the details of the allegations in this case. But if it is against an elder and there are atleast 2 witnesses, this is the correct scriptural direction
I got a feeling Jim knows something and they don’t want that to knowledge out
Can someone please explain to me how this is trespassing? The church is open to anyone who wants to attend. Also, I assume Jim is a member of the church, which even more allows him to be there. Also, the church building is paid for by people giving money, so the building actually belongs to the members. So, how is he trespassing? So is this a dictatorship? Do what the leaders say or you will be escorted out? I recommend all Christians leave this place (I would call it a church, but it is not, it is a business) Do not walk, run, fast!
This is sad.
Can anyone fill me in on what this is about
Even if the allegations are complete propaganda shoving them under the rug like that looks so incredibly dishonest
DJ, "Let's all sing the song "Church on Fire!"
Looks like a control issue here. The ominous sounding synthesizer airplane drone sound in the background doesn't help, very creepy. If you're going to have a business meeting, it should be conducted under rules of order. Appears to be a power play by the pastor and staff. What a shameful mess, whatever is going on.
That drone sound is also known as the subliminal emotional control tone
These people need to remove Bible from the name of the Church.
The request is not unreasonable, 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
It doesn’t take long to realize and recognize that the “church” is nothing more than that small body of elders and pastors that makes the decisions for a large group of sheep that they need to control and maintain control of.
That’s apostasy right there. Shameful, but not surprising of Platt.
Yikes... imagine being the worship leader after all of this....
i have no idea what the fuss is about.. what did i miss?
Some elders were not voted into the church because there were allegations of fornication. Platt ripped into the congregation because he said these allegations were misinformation. This guy calls a point of order to read the minutes from the last meeting (I guess because he thought they maybe revealed something important). A member in most churches is typically allowed to bring up a point of order in a congregational meeting. As a sidenote doing a meeting like this during a worship service is weird and probably wrong. They blocked his point of order (which I don't think you're allowed to do normally, that's not how it works). It seems like MBC is using strongarm tactics unless this is all taken way out of context and is a big misunderstanding.
So is this meeting about C.R.T.? or is it about becoming WOKE? I hard this meeting was about this church adopting both of these world views, and teaching them.
"You are Trespassing" 😳
Toxic culture is very sad. May God help this church.
Currently reading Blue and White's book on church discipline and Platt and company definitely should be ashamed of themselves. I am a huge fan of Platt and had two books of his. I heard about this awhile back and kept researching on it ....this is simply heartbreaking.
This was not the meeting, they already had the meeting and the election for the elders. It happens in one shot, they have the meeting and then they vote. The church constitution states that if there is not an 80% majority consensus for electing elders, then they do a re-vote as soon as possible. For the first time, they did not get an 80% majority. It was something like 78%. They were following the church constitution which says "re-vote" it does not say that they do another meeting and a re-vote... JUST A RE-VOTE. They chose to do the re-vote after this particular service and it was announced as such and people showed up to attend the service and then to vote.
This video was calculated social media propaganda, made to look like MBC was having a meeting, this was not the case, it was a re-vote.
This church being right in Metro DC, has many people who have studied the political theater well, they have money, and they're willing to use all of it... if they don't get their way. Total false outrage, false optics, filmed in just the right way to make it look like he was being silenced during a meeting...and boy was it effective.
Here is a direct quote from a former elder that can give some insight into why the behavior of this small faction is patently unbiblical... "the church we built". Sorry folks you didn't build a thing, God built MBC, not you. And that is the crux of your issue, it's all about "your church" and the people in it... and not about Christ and His gospel. God is going to give them all a cosmic smack down. What they've tried to do to Dr.David Platt and Pastor Mike Kelsey is satanic, demonic, and self centered. Woe to you folks. I love you, but woe to you. 😞
Politics in Church. Adultery, fornication and financial misappropriation. All in one Church wawu. Will God meet salvation (FAITH) on earth when he comes back?
How many people watched this video countless of times just because Jim was awesome? Me!!!!
That mood music in the background didn’t work.
Lon Solomon is so ashamed of what happened to his church
He told you that?
@@crunkin1t590 You must not know or remember Lon. To bad. He would have had a big influence on your life.
Such shady behavior sneaking this in during worship, and praise.... a real meeting is where people discuss things, but their voices were shut down, and even placed a trespass on a congregant who stood up to speak and be heard. It sounds the crowd was on board with him.
This literally reminds me of our corrupt government. What a disgusting power play, for whatever agenda they are wanting to push.
I pray for those in the middle of this turmoil, and I hope a better more healthy relationship can be had within the church... but I have a feeling a new church will be started by those who oppose this behavior.
#wokechurch will fall.
They had several meetings before that to worship service.. The guy could’ve spoke up then...
An Gel I’m sure he did. They voted against these three elders and then there they are trying to get people to vote during worship for the people they voted agaisnt
How sad. That's not the time to call a meeting like that.
Yes, how disgraceful to bring up truth, in a church no less. Your so so right SMH.
This has a lot of legal ramifications.
Too many men in leadership positions never speak out against things they see are wrong to not lose their position. We need men to be loyal to the congregation they are supposed to represent!!
There truly is alot of discord in the body of Christ today. We always Christians need to come together and stop letting these little power struggles divide us. We need to be more like the body described in the Bible loving one another supporting one another. We all need to let the holy Spirit lead us and sometimes it means swallowing our pride and sometimes it means speaking up. But my prayers are with this church and the people in it I hope that they can come together again and not be divided God bless my brothers and sisters.
This is not a church
Betcha Jesus is sooooo proud of these people
Ok - I admit to not knowing everything that is going on here. But what is it with the guy in the short-sleeved flak jacket (or whatever you call it)
Why would anybody wear that to church in the first place??? I have my own ideas on the answer to that, but will stay silent for the time being…..
Yeah, he gives the impression that he’s compensating for something … 🤔🤔🤔
He is part of the FirstResponder/Security team. He is wired with radios and earphones. I heard him call for "Fairfax" which is likely the Fairfax County police which arrived a few minutes later (since that were in the church lobby, there were about 4 armed officers there that day). He would not be allowed to stand around like that if he was not part of the security detail. Also, the church security has concealed carry arms as well. The large amount of security is partly owing to the fact of death threats by nut jobs, plus US Senators, Congressmen, Cabinet members, and Occasionally the Vice President and the President of the USA occasionally drop in.
I myself sas up in the balcony that morning.
God told his Prophet's he is going after the Churches that are NOT aligned in his Spirit. Where's God in this Church? Is the Holy Spirit and the nine gifts in the building? If it's not brothers and sisters you need to leave and find a Church indeed blessed by God and his Prophet's
Definitely not the New Testament way. I used to attend MBC back in the old days when they first met in a school. They have definitely lost their way since then, in my humble opinion.
Wow… Lon would have never allowed this type of crap. McLean has really gone down hill. I used to have a lot of respect for David Platt… now it seems he has gone the way of the Pharisees.
Courage is in short supply in evangelicalism today.