Hello, Been watching videos of yours every once in a while. Love the content, mess with you heavy. When I reference you in conversation with friends, what pronouns should I use?
As a Latina who mainly watches Quackity, I can DEFINITELY attest to the racism in MCYT spaces. He got so much nastiness in his chat the first time he did a Spanish stream, and he's constantly portrayed in fanworks as either hyper-aggressive, hyper-sexualized, or nothing but comic relief. He had to call people out on stream once for spamming "El Chapo." It was... upsetting, to say the least.
PLEASE IM SO GLAD SOMEONE'S MENTIONED THIS-- it doesn't help either that quackity (unintentionally, which makes it even sadder) fed the flames with the whole "Mexican dream" bit and other jokes similar to that. I'm not saying it's his fault, as I and many other latinos make similar jokes, but when presented to an audience and space that is mostly white, it encourages them to start making the same jokes as well and they slowly turn from jokes laughing with you to laughing AT you.
Oh god i had no idea people were treatig Quackity like this, what the hell?? I watched some of his older content a long time ago and he seemed like the most wholesome guy ever, really funny too. He deserves so much better.
As a fellow Mexican, I also completely agree; hell, I made a WHOLE discussion and mini essay about the racism in communities like that. The way Spanish speakers and Quackity had to deal with people saying "I don't speak Taco Bell", people asking him for "las drogas", and hell, even the time he was with his friends back in Mexico and they were doing gritos and playing mariachi music, people were telling them to "stop barking" in chat. There is just nastiness in almost every corner of the MCYT community if you search hard enough. This is honestly why I don't engage anymore.
@@aloofm33rkat28 you should seriously not use the internet anymore if you can’t take a joke, everybody gets made fun of and they literally always make equivalent British jokes, get a grip man you live in a social media bubble
When you turn 18 you’re not automatically an adult. You don’t all of a sudden absorb a mature mentality when the clock strikes 12. These are still very young very impressionable people. I’m so sick of the “she may be in high school but she’s 18”. SHES IN HIGH SCHOOL.
Exactly!!! I get so sick when I see guys in their thirties date 18 year olds and claim its okay because they are "very mature" and an "adult". I unfortunately see it quite often.
Yeah! Like I'm only 20 going on 21 but I'm still super careful about the interactions I have online with 16-18-year-olds, even though we're relatively closer in age, I am the one with greater social power in that relationship, and I must be careful and responsible for the sake of both of us.
@@anitaremenarova6662 it literally is but the majority of people, specifically other men and boys, rather then helping these young boys either say, “oh if that was me i would’ve been grateful” or just str8 up getting mad at the double standard without helping or truly caring abt those young men at all. although can’t tell if your trolling or not atp
@@-miaumiau Not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that young guys that are legally adult are still just dumb children, not everyone is this groomer mastermind. This courtesy is however never extended to them, very misandrist of all of you.
I think one of the best fandom responses I’ve seen to grooming allegations (that I whole heartedly believe are true) was how the Cryaotic fandom (and people who had been essentially his coworkers, for lack of a better word) a) gathered evidence, made timelines of events, and boosted the voices of his victims, and b) dropped his ass and made their own discord server where the majority of the core fandom still hangs out. They took the community of like minded weirdos that had grown around him, and then removed him from it.
I loved Cryaotic when I was younger and would use his voice to make it easier to fall asleep but I stopped when I became an adult. Finding out about what he did made me so disgusted that I used to listen to him to fall asleep.
✨It's just that easy!✨ I wish more people would remember that you can appreciate the mood/aesthetic/community that springs up around a creator without thinking that means you have to chain your identity to the creator and give them your blind loyalty forever.
this is an excellent example! i used to be heavily attached to cryaotic when i was a tween but i was 18 when the story came out. he hadnt uploaded in a while and all the news going round, i couldnt imagine NOT ditching the creator and staying for the community. Cry was already 'sort of' niche for his content at the time so the fact that the community he brought together could collectively drop his ass and move on without much fuss, ykno thats p awesome. i wish it could be like that more often.
@@nailmasterjune In a very similar boat as yours. I watched him almost every day from ages 12 to 16, staying up for the weekend streams that ended at 6am, got the plushie and everyting, then fell off after graduating high school. I still feel sick to my stomach when I think about it.
can y'all point me to a good source for the whole story about cryaotic??? I used to watch him for a while at like 14 but I literally forgot about him until just now
Recently, a tiktoker I really enjoyed got exposed for groping minors while in cosplay. Never once was my reaction "Oh no, I'm losing my favorite creator," it was always, "Oh my god, I trusted this person, I can't believe they would ever do something like that." Not ONCE did I ever defend them or not believe the victims. Dream stans need to learn how to be empathetic and stop thinking about themselves
honestly, whether or not dream is innocent of recent allegations i truly do hope this current situation serves as a wake up call for his fanbase to not be so stuck on defending a guy they ultimately truly don’t know on a personal level…
yea it’s definitely put in prospective (for me) that i really done know him as much as it seemed i did. it made me take a massive step back and start taking things as if i wasnt a fan and had saw everything going on.
Thats what freaked me out about the Dream fandom, they were so intensely parasocial and it was weird that Dream kinda fed into that instead of going through with “I don’t know you, you’re not my friend boundary.”
I 100% believe he did it. He’s manipulating his young fan base and its wrong to just blame all the child fans for being para social when he literally uses textbook gaslighting and bullying tactics to isolate mentally ill chronically online children
As someone who watches the community, the worst part is that it hasn’t and it probably won’t be. Rather, it seems to have been a rallying call for a lot of them, strengthening the “us against the rest of the world” mentality a lot of stans have with him. It’s frustrating to watch.
Wait...Billy Eilish stans harassed you over your body? Billy Eilish stans...whose idol has famously been subject to body-shaming internet harassment and suffered greatly for it? Pro-level cognitive dissonance on their part. So sorry that happened to you.
I'm now realizing that once I'm a parent the "parasocial relationships talk" should be included amongst all the other "talks" parents give their kids. When I was younger I was repeatedly warned about talking to strangers online, but influencer culture really tricks younger audiences into thinking they fully know the influencer. It removes the idea that the influencer is still a stranger, not their friend. No matter how often someone streams or posts or how happy and amazing they look online to thousands/millions of followers, you don't what happens behind closed doors and you do not have a real two-sided relationship with them. That could be so hurtful to a kid (or adult) who is lonely, but it is so important to know.
This is a really good point. It feels like the talk about internet safety stopped with the concept of predators posing as teens in chat rooms so they could lure kids.
for sure! now we need to make sure that when we warn our kids about how adults should and shouldn’t be interacting with them that includes online celebs and influencers. like we need to tell our kids that straight up it is inappropriate for a youtuber to add them on snapchat or compliment them on their appearance
it scares me that adults don’t know enough about the internet to be adequately protecting their kids. like the children at my middle school shouldn’t have been on omegle or messaging random old men on kik but no one’s parents even knew what those things were
As a lonely teenager I had a serious parasocial relationship with the Achievement Hunter team (mostly their let's plays crew). And that was mostly a positive experience for me, but there were times it did negatively effect me, times where they made a misogynistic comment and then the comments exploded and it became so apparent that as a teenage girl I wasn't really welcome in that space. And with hindsight it's easy to see what could have happened to me had I ever gone deeper and tried to make contact. It *did* happen to some of the teenage girls who did that. It probably helps to frame it as a kind of fictional realtionship. You like the persona they play, not the real person that are. Then it's no more dangerous than a parasocial relationship with Luke Skywalker or Katniss Everdeen.
I’m not a dream stan, just a random social worker and wow is this a master class in challenging someone while maintaining unconditional positive regard. I hope your thoughtfulness and empathy reaches them.
A good way to gauge how a person really is, is to check their reaction to something that can be _perceived_ as bad - in Dream's case, his victory screech being misconstrued as offensive to Indigenous Americans and his reaction to that misconstruction. Instead of explaining to people that he was referencing Spongebob Squarepants, to which most people's reaction would have been, "Oh, alright." and moving on, for his gut reaction to be a tirade about how he's part Indigenous (Which, hey, he could be - we don't know) tells a lot about his personal character. I mean, most people would just go, "That's just from Spongebob." if the same thing happened to them. I know I would.
or (in my opinion slightly better and building on that idea) "it was a reference to spongebob, but I can understand why some folks might find it offensive and I will do my best to educate myself on those sorts of issues/avoid it in the future"
most people who suddenly say 'I'm part indigenous though!' as a defense for doing something that offends native Americans is usually sus, not even being able to pick a supposed tribe (Or country! America isn't the only place in the world with indigenous peoples) speaks to his character too imo
i find it odd how the whitest of white men somehow always suddenly claim to have "indigenous" in them the second theyre exposed for being racist... like ... alright kyle... 🧐
@@sora1498 I mean I do find it shocking just _how_ white he is. Like, I'm someone who's about as pale as a full bottle of Elmer's glue, and I think Dream has me beat on lack-of-pigment in our skin.
the fact that you were (justifiably) scared to speak out against a man who you weren't even the victim of is the exact problem with the fanbase. When people who can make a difference are attacked for calling out an irresponsible creator, a whole lot less people will speak out. We live in a climate where people have to choose between personal safety or making sure creators don't get away with harmful actions. I hope any dream stan reading this realizes just how fucked up that is.
As someone who actually enjoyed his content back in 2020 - Dream has consistently demonstrated he has an atrocious temperament. He reacts extremely poorly and aggressively to any perceived slight, which emotionally stirs up his fans and makes them feel even more loyal to him as ‘defenders’. Regardless of the truth to these allegations, Dream is an unstable and arrogant creator, making him a wildly irresponsible role model for a younger audience.
his nasty temperament affects a lot of the things he does. whenever he felt attacked or salty about mcc (minecraft championships) he would on occasion start making jabs at whatever other streamer he thought had done something unfair on stream. he’s competitive to the point of toxicity. when i was still into mcyt, the mcc hype was huge. every once in a while, clips of him acting immature and butthurt would get reposted across social media, and even though i never watched dream and his main friend group, these clips brought down the vibe of everybody involved with mcc- fans, staff, and other streamers. its very minor but i just remembered it and think it’s an interesting point. it happened no more than a couple times. but those couple times, the clips i saw were so bitter, he made subtle jokes with his friends on stream in a way that suggested they had ragged on their less-popular minecraft youtubers for a hours in discord calls. so bitter. over a regular monthly minecraft tournament hes always gonna be in, because he has millions of subscribers. nuts
I absolutely noticed this too!! I was into the dream SMP in 2020, but i never really liked dream himself. He always struck me as weirdly defensive and tempermental.
dream, from day one, has been cryaotic waiting to happen again. same mascot, same old twitter gimmick "cry was taken" vs. "dream was taken". quite literally step for fucking step, and as someone who personally had conversations with cryaotic? who had been a fan of him from 2011 on? it's been terrifying to watch all these kids start falling in love with someone who's just the same as that sack of shit. it's history repeating itself in the grossest, weirdest ways possible. i've been wanting to make my own video going over the shocking similarities, but due to how personal it feels to me i don't think i'm quite ready for that yet
it fucks with my brain whenever I see fanart of Dream's character icon since that is literally! just! Cryaotic's! character! Like,, it's insane how much history repeats itself..
Eh from what I can see he just has bad temper on Twitter. Not unlike an average Twitter user. But yeah, with the commoditization of entertainment, stans are gonna stan. Perhaps back then people would only stand superstars that uphold a public image, but since rocknroll and serial killers it's been gloves off for long now.
@@kugelblitzingularity304 the allegation against him are the same as cry. it's not about a bad temper on twitter. which, by the way, is putting his past racist, homophobic and transphobic comments wayyyy too lightly. if the allegations are true, he's just the same if not worse than cry due to those "just twitter moments" as you worded it
I think it's a little immature to assume 2 people are the same based on an avatar and twitter handle that are both extremely generic. I don't like Dream either but him and Cry are nothing alike.
As a former dream stan I found that a lot of anti-semitism (I am not Jewish so I can’t claim to understand antisemitism) and white supremacy was rampant throughout the community the main reason I left. I remember constantly feeling bad for being a POC and when interacting with other POC individuals they too also pushed down their identities and idolising individuals because they were white. People talking about how only white people were attractive just a lot of insecurity and internalised racism. There was always this push of being progressive and POC friendly but again it was all performative no one actually cared and actually caring was defined as retweeting and liking a thread. I fell into a really deep self hatred hole because of how much I felt ashamed of my own ethnicity.
I think the fact that it is a comfort/safe place for people (a lot of them white) is a double edged sword in this regard. It doesn’t foster the environment for the hard (and oftentimes political) conversations around modern racism. It’s a hard pill to swallow. Being the ignorant and complaint majority of an oppressive system. Especially when many seeking out comfort due to struggles associated similarly unjust systems of a different cause.
That "this hurts real victims" comment he made is... Ugh. Right after the first time my ex abuser SAed me, his sister saw me crying and I briefly explained to her what he did. He walked in on this and got upset with me for telling her about it. Eventually, the conversation turned into him telling me she had supposedly been through CSA, and that it was messed up for me to say that to her when she was the one who had "really" been ab*sed. I was only 16, so his manipulation worked and I ended up apologizing to him. Dream's reaction to these allegations is uncomfortably familiar.
the same thing happened to me where my abuser gaslighted me and I alway apologized when I would get upset bc he SAed me. I didn't really know what was happening and only knew it made me feel awful. Manipulation is awful :/
As a former lonely teen who used the internet as comfort, I appreciatte the compassionate tone of this video and the questions you raise. We aren't taught that we can love something and still be critical of it, still see the less-good or bad parts and try to correct them. Now, more than ever, it's important that we are kind to one another and learn to think with nuance about our world and all of the intersections in it. Thank you so much Rose, you may be the woman that convinces me to try a really dramatic eyeliner
I was one of the people who filled out the survey. I'm an ex dream stan and I'm really glad you made this video. When I was a stan, the community believed victims. We were open to criticism. But only on a surface level. Most of us couldn't bare being without the content from our cc's, and would move on as soon as we could. But even then, looking at what the minecraft youtuber community is now is just a reflection of how unhealthy I was, but even worse. They have created a hostile, toxic environment full of hypocrites. Back in the day, dream stans used to attack and body shames tons of other creators, but it's only bad now when it happens to Dream, for example. That's just an example of how terrible it is. This video has amazing points about how no one should be afraid to post (as his stans would call it) "dream neg" or even just a video about dream. The community would literally run stans off the platforms if you joked about him CHEATING (in mc, which... he did). Great vid Ro! Since this is gaining traction I thought I’d write a little more about my personal experiences. I made a lot of friends, and as Ro said the community is a really accepting place for queer people such as myself and during this time I finally labelled my sexuality and gender id. However, I was so so unhealthy. It was during the pandemic and I was barely doing school because I was spending 24/7 devoted to dream and co. I had 4k+ followers on twitter for being a stan. I thought that my attachment was normal. I would donate to them because it meant they would basically acknowledge you. I’m so grateful I left, I was miserable but convinced myself I was fine. The community is a huge echo chamber that validates and glorifies unhealthy behaviors like mine. Just thought I’d share my experience for the hell of it :) Sorry if this is a huge ramble
@@aff77141 Kid you not when it came out that he cheated people made almost no noise about it in the community… people did not care. Which, I mean I don’t really care that he cheated still it’s more all of the deflection and disproving he tried to do and leading his fans on with trust in him only to end up a cheater 😭
i will be honest ive been in the fandom since late 2020 i wasnt really following lore at the time and i didnt really donate to streams or anything but im still in it. i do agree theres a toxic side to the fandom but i dont think its much to the fault of dream... i actually find myself feeling bad for him im around his age and i cant imagine having a fandom that big and no real way to control it. no commonality between these people other than you. hes not a perfect person but i do empathize with that part of his situation a lot.
only 30 minutes into the video but the manatreed situation was NOT proven false. this is when i left the fandom. there is ONE thread "disproving" the allegations that people point to when talking about manatreed situation and none of it holds up. whether all of the manatreed leaks were true or not, it's definitive that dream housed an abuser
@victoria p lol there are publicly available documents showing that a convicted criminal was living at dream's address, whether that was manatreed or not. but sure let's ignore important info bc they're from leaks. according to them, they (manatreed, dream, and sapnap) have known each other for YEARS. pre-blow up. we can't assume he didn't know because obviously they were close. we also can't assume dream wouldn't give him a platform despite being a literal abuser because that was the entire point of being faceless, so people wouldn't find out. stop defending dream by saying "he wouldn't do this" or he "wouldn't do that" because you don't know him. you don't know what he would and wouldn't do. with his fans defending everything he does, I think he Would do just about anything now, knowing that he could get away with it.
@victoria p i don't know "why" dream would do something. i don't know how close dream is with his friends. I'm not choosing to comment on what he would hypothetically do or not do based on what we "know" about him. I'm choosing to comment on his actions and the proof of his involvement
It is genuinely mental to me that Ro is only 21. Wtf?? I wish I had had half the wisdom+ability to articulate my thoughts, holy cow. You are doing so great, hon - always cheering you on :D
Ro's out there out-comedianing and out-insighting 30+ y.o. people and retaining my attention like a Pokemon game, it's marvelous to behold a master wordsmith.
your comment is sweet and i belive you have 100% good intentions but you should know "hon" is a slur trans women call other trans women who don't pass well, just so you know in the future. I would use Hun instead :)
I’m an ex mcyt fan, Aphmau specifically. I remember slowly fading away from her content as it started to change and then finding out what she had done. The idealization of predatory relationships, the subtle racism, the queer baiting, and more. I’m so embarrassed to tell anyone I used to be obsessed with her content because I know how people react. I was a kid and she was the only content creator I felt cared for by (being a young, queer, nd, traumatized kid). I was enamoured by the fantasy aspects, and the community; and I can only have empathy for dsmp fans. I know what it’s like to be so attached to a character a creator puts on to the point of obsession. I want those who are afraid of leaving the fandom to know that you aren’t at fault for attaching yourself to a creator, but it’s your responsibility to realize that these communities don’t actually care for you and your friends.
Damn kinda feel like the reason why i drop her is stupid now i drop her cause literally she didn't choose neither luarence and garroth in her old minecraft diaries
@@SaphInfection Aaron was three years older then Aph when they were in high school. She was a freshmen and he was a Senior, which is super illegal. (She was 15, he was 18) In regards to Queer baiting, there are SO many instances where two guys are put in a queer situation (Think Dante and Aaron kissing on accident, Laurence and Garroth kissing on accident) and then you add in Laurence and Garroth literally living together, being “best friends” and “roommates” (queer calling cards), it’s clear that Jessica only did this to entice a queer audience even though they never actually got together. Plus the only main MLM (man loving man) relationship in Mystreet being with a man just named “Guy” and his unknown boyfriend. Also, the ONLY queer woman we really see (Katelyn) ending up in a straight relationship. Not saying bi women have to get with other women, but she is quite literally the only not-straight woman I can think of from mystreet and that’s an issue. There’s also the entire KC being based on super racist Japanese stereotypes (think the “kawaii” school girl”), the normalization of assaulting men (the Pizza Delivery Guy from S1, and just lazy writing (like Travis being Aphs bff in high school but suddenly not remembering her in mystreet)
As someone who was a fan of Dream until the allegations came out, I think the reaction has been very interesting. On tumblr, Dream had a sizeable following though nowhere near the size of his twitter following. I generally found them to be much smarter than his twitter fandom and they were willing as all hell to call him out when he was doing stupid shit. They were defensive, especially of Dream, but I knew that for many of them it came from having been harassed on twitter for being in the fandom and being a fan of Dream. They tended to settle things a lot more peacefully and without the direct contact with Dream and such a large group of both fans and antis, doxxing and death threats were a lot lower. When the allegations came out, people were split between believing the victim or waiting for Dream to respond, but once Dream did respond, the entirety of his fanbase on tumblr collapsed. Hundreds or thousands of people, names I could recognize with ease, deactivated. Those that didn't either moved blogs and/or vowed to stop interacting with his content. I saw many people who stepped back and took it as a wake up call on how they were interacting with him before. There's a small portion of people who remain as his fans but they've been shunned by the greater mcytblr community. People who weren't even direct fans of his left tumblr because they couldn't stay in a community where there were people who supported him. (Edit: It's been about three weeks since I made this comment and unfortunately a large number of people have returned to being his fans. It's disgusting. It's not the same size as before and they are still shunned by the community at large, but they exist. I'll blame some of it on people moving from twitter to tumblr, but a lot of people are trying to move on like nothing happened and support him as if it had been nothing but silly anti vs stan drama. They're very hostile to anyone who says anything negative about Dream.) Personally, I knew I was never going to interact with his content again because of his response and treatment of the situation, but what really cemented my newfound hatred of him was that his first public appearance after his twitlonger was a video featuring the father of another youtuber who'd recently passed away to cancer. I don't think he used that stream as 'damage control' on purpose because I believe it was just the best timing for the family, but since that stream, people haven't been talking about the allegations. They're talking about the stream itself. It created a bridge between the allegations and his normal content and since then he's been posting and tweeting like nothing happened. I had always been a bigger fan of the streamer who passed, he was and still is who I primarily post about. I genuinely don't think I'd ever felt angrier than the hour or so I was dealing with a blinding rage over what Dream was doing, because everyone else on tumblr knew just as well that no matter his intentions with this stream, it would let Dream get away with not talking about the allegations. Since then I took another look at the allegations. No matter how true the sexual relationship is, Dream himself confirmed that the Instagram messages are real, which prove that he was privately messaging a fan of his who was emotionally invested in his content (to the point where she said in their first interaction that it gave her another reason to keep living) things that were incredibly innapropriate. It makes me sick to see him nominated in the streamys. I've contacted them about it but I seriously doubt they'll be getting back to me or the many other people who are disturbed to see a man who shouldn't have a platform because of his misuse of it winning awards for his content. Dream stans are still a thing on twitter. The majority of mcytblr is disgusted by them, the only ones that aren't being the remaining Dream stans. I think it might have something to do with the majority of Dream stans on tumblr having been 19 - 27, whereas on twitter they're significantly younger, around 13 - 18 usually. DSMPblr has been a supportive community since we're all in the same boat. It's actually where I found this video. We're just all angry and sad about the whole thing, and it hurts to see not only Dream and his fans ignore the situation, but other streamers. Large drama youtubers and streamers haven't talked about it at all. They're ignoring it, probably because it's Dream. I've seen people return to being a fan of his after only a week or two since they feel they were just being too dramatic, that it wasn't really that bad and it just felt that way because people were throwing around words like 'groomer' and 'predatory'. It feels so invalidating because it makes me feel like I'm wrong for being upset about his incredibly inappropriate actions. It's hard not to be upset about this. I had been subbed to him since 2019 and seeing what he did as well as his remaining fanbase move on like nothing happened just makes me so sad. I watched the Dream SMP because I loved the streamers and the story of the server, but it's incredibly hard to find comfort in a story I have loved for almost three years when one of the central characters is played by a man I want nothing to do with. And I don't know what to do if the other streamers on the server don't speak about this sooner or later. Also, if I can add one critism of this video: the link in the description is a terrible one. The majority of those things are years old and have been adressed by the streamers and youtubers already. The thread is notorious in the fandom for being littered with misinformation and things that have been settled a long time ago. Edit: The Dream SMP had a volume/season one finale. A large number of fans agreed to not watch the streams live in order to try to tank Tommy's views to hopefully have him notice that his content with Dream performs worse than usual. While I have no idea if he noticed, there was a drop. However, what we've learned about this finale is so telling. Dream planned a lot of it after not responding to messages for weeks, which to me only seems like his using the lore of the server as damage control (which he had done before). Dream also was fairly insistent on what must happen and one of the streamers involved said he felt like a yes man and didn't have much sway on what happened despite already having an ending in mind for his character. The finale was rushed and the final stream of the 4 stream finale featured an abuse victim learning to understand their abuser's POV, which can be done well, expect that upon that happening, the abuser softened and became a nicer person. I do not have to get into why a narrative that abusers will be nice if their victims are nice to them is a bad one. The server then blew up and everyone had their memories wiped, creating a fresh slate for the content creators to play on the server without the past lore, or their characters. The abuser and victim became friends instantly without their memories as well. While I'm sure the other content creators had influence into what happened and are not free of criticism for this ending, I will say that I believe Dream, in his effort to quickly create damage control content, ruined the ending of a 2-3 year story. Another edit: More streamers on the SMP have come out saying that Dream has been ignoring or talking over their lore plans and they feel tied to his server. If anything, that just proves how little he cares about it and that he's just using it for damage control.
Hey, glad to see someone else from DSMPblr here! Tumblr has always been more chill and mature about controversial topics, which is why I like it lol. Anyways, I totally feel you, and as a side note, it’s very interesting to see that most ccs except the dteam or whatever haven’t really interacted with him a lot since all the allegations happened; a lot of people have mentioned that they might not do anything story-related for “awhile” so it’s interesting to think about the logistics of this all going down and if stuff is getting postponed as a result (as it should, of course.) the response of other ccs is a whole other bomb waiting to happen. Anyways, hope you have a lovely day!
Hey thanks for spelling out how mcytblr has reacted. As a person who doesn't use Twitter and interacts with the fandom entirely through tumblr its nice to see someone give our perspective. :D
@@kombuchas4684 _Don’t say that publicly, you’re going to make people see the cool aspects and actually want to go there instead of twitter and you know what happened to Twitt-_ anyways, Tumblr is dead, overrated, and is an libtoid SJW cesspool where everything is called racist, and there is absolutely nothing to value from it. Please don’t go there.
god, i've been in totally the same boat, been here on tumblr since early-mid 2020 good lord, on ground zero for pretty much every controversy listed in the video. glad someone else was pissed about the stream with techno's dad, i think that cemented my leaving too. the tumblr fandom, including mainstream mcytblr and also critblr (which has evolved a lot over time actually, that's basically what i've been following since june/july 2020), is a totally different beast than the twt fandom. it'd be interesting if someone were to do a deep dive into that side of the fandom, especially since a lot of people have left their blogs up but haven't deactivated like the first round of crtiblr blogs (RIP wormweeb, dreamwasfound/georgesoot, colournotfound. miss lurking you guys). i also feel like people who haven't really been in deep in the fandom could probably find a lot better information on the controversies there, though i guess it's not as easy to search as just going through a twt thread since people don't often main tag.
As someone whos in the Minecraft community (not a stan) thank you for talking about this. I've been trying to help the victims and stop the onslaught of hate towards them. Dream has always seemed off to me, with how he responds to anything negative towards him. I wouldn't label Dream as the figure head of the Minecraft community when there are so many other creators. Thank you so so much for calling him out, I was surprised to see so much silence.
SO TRUE!! minecraft is one of my special interests so my brain will literally not let me leave the community 💀💀 i had a huge hyperfixation on the DSMP but never really liked dream himself, just his character and acting skills. i liked his dynamic with his friends and would watch animatics, but thats about it- the way he responded to criticism left a bad taste in my mouth, and then when the KKK and nazi edits came out… yikes. i don’t have twitter (or really any social media) so i only learned about the allegations from this video and im honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they were true because of the way he interacts with his fanbase. sorry for this big long paragraph lol, im just really passionate about minecraft and its community ^^;
@@ARACHNIDPARTY I feel the exact same way and you have nothing to be sorry for its nice to hear how people feel about this because it helps me explain my own perspective. As an ex fan of his he definitely created that problem for himself. I even remember the text line he opened up for his fans its crazy looking back at it now
@@rhyssocialawkwardness8170 remembering the text line was like the mental equivalent of a castration with no anesthesiacs 💀💀💀 glad my long reply wasn’t annoying HWHAHAH
@@rhyssocialawkwardness8170 oh my god the text line, that was so fuckin weird. That and the usb stick thing.... i guess its kinda a thing for some celebs to do a text line or w/e but it just seems like such a wildly unpleasant idea.
insane. there's so much silence I didn't even know this shit was HAPPENING, that's how it goes when you have someone who so blatantly refuses to ever acknowledge he or his fans have done anything wrong, and then GETS AWAY WITH IT. Something like this was bound to happen
I feel like it should be noted that a massive creator interacting on a 1-on-1 private impermanant space like snapchat with a fan who met them through being a fan of their work is an inappropriate interaction. There is a hard power dynamic built into that relationship, even if they were both adults. I'd compare it to an inappropriate relationship between a college professor and a student- even though both parties are adults, there is an inherent difference in power between the teacher and the student, even if that person is no longer a student of the professor.
yep there is genuinely just no reason someone would do it unless they want to leverage the admiration the fan feels for them to get something that they would not be comfortable asking for in any other open space. there are too many other ways to interact with your fans if your intentions are above-board that are both more convenient and dont immediately seem sketchy
exactly, it really reminds me of the callmecarson situation in that aspect (obviously, the details are different, but each controversy was based on the power dynamic), fascinating how such a similar situation has such different responses, and a part of me feels like it has something to do with their appearance (or at least in dream's case, perceived fan appearance). because dream is twitter's golden boy it's like the opposite side of the same coin
@Nightingale V I think the reason why Carson got booted is because the people who exposed him were his former content creator friends (aka Lunch Club, Goop, and for a short period Fart Club). Note the fact that since this allegation came to light, absolutely nobody close to Dream has left him like Lunch Club did to Carson. A massive part of what informs public opinion on these types of situations is how the people closest to the accused react. For example, during the recent situation with Mizkif on Twitch, his streamer org (OTK) had him temporarily removed while they investigated what exactly happened. If OTK had stated the opposite and defended Miz's character, then public opinion would likely be swayed in favor of Mizkif.
I do wonder now about if a fan/ celebrity relationship would ever be a fair dynamic. That’s a really interesting thing to think about, like does that make a celebrity who chooses to date a fan weird 100% of the time.
I just wanna say, the sea shots around the 50 minute mark are gorgeous. I know you'll get comments about the content but I want you to know we're seeing your cinematic growth too! the shots of the cottages while talking about belonging, they were beautiful. you're doing amazing sweetie x
i was a fan of dream/dreamsmp in for about a year (late 2020 - 2021) and what ultimately drove me away was the way he interacted with his fans, basically just repeatedly showing a lack of understanding of fandom and an inability to set and maintain important boundaries. he handled minor criticism poorly and did little to control or prevent the response of his fans. it disturbs me how willing his fans are to wave away the part of the allegations he's admitted to because dream is showing, yet again, that he does not understand the power and influence he has and that is dangerous. amazing video, you speak with an incredible amount of compassion for people, even after admitting you're afraid.
People may wonder: but how do you set healthy boundaries? The textbook enforcer of boundaries in this side of the fanbase is Philza. There's no better learn school for it than looking at how Phil & his Twitch chat interact with one another & see a healthier dynamic
This is the exact same reason I left. I had been familiar with his content on RUclips and out of curiosity I watched part of a Twitch stream. The way he was talking to his fans just made me so uncomfortable...
yeah, as a current hermitcraft/empires fan and former dream smp fan, a lot of dream fans can be unnecessarily toxic. the hermitcraft/empires smp fandom is imo a lot more safe and accepting especially for people of color and disabled people, and the ccs are much better at interacting with their fanbase and even the hardcore stans (which are few and far between) aren’t half as intense as dream stans. i can’t speak to other people’s experiences but i was only in the dream smp fandom for a little while before i discovered that dream stans exist, and that very quickly made me officially decide that that fandom wasn’t going to be a safe space for me. i was far removed from the dream smp fandom when the allegations came out, so it didn’t really affect me much. however i did see a couple of my tumblr mutuals who were somewhat engaged in the dream smp, and who belived the victim, and they got it pretty hard from the toxic dream stans. a lot of them decided to leave the dream smp fandom permanently, and one even disavowed mcyt altogether. i haven’t said anything about it on tumblr except reblog a few posts because i don’t want the dream fans to attack me. i know how the dream stans can be, and you’re really brave for talking about it ro.
I can second the experience with hermitcraft, I wrote a long comment and had to restart but creators like xisuma, falsesymmetry mumbojumbo and others all struck me as very responsible and emotionally mature, at least when I was watching minecraft content- and trust me, that might genuinely equate to an entire year of my life in watchtime over like a 7 year period and I’m probably not the only one. Mindcrack was another one, kurtjmac, aureylian, omgchad, ethoslab, zisteau etc. Point is that although there is a lot of mind-numbing, hyperactive minecraft content on youtube that’s rather shamelessly exploiting the short attention spans of kids and certain symptoms of neurodivergence, profiting on v-bucks scam equivalents, creators being creepy or straight up grooming, etc, at least from my experience there were always very open, accepting, and mature communities that usually felt comfortable for me, although I admit most communities would be for someone like me. I think regardless of whether he deserves the title or not, Dream seems to be very much a figurehead of that hyperactive groomer interpretation of mcyt, even if someone like me (who was really turned off by that side of youtube and even moreso now that I’m older) doesn’t believe that that image fairly describes the majority of minecraft youtube creators.
i am also more of an empires/hermitcraft fan, and i don't really watch dream smp content (or content from most people on the server). it always kind of rubbed me the wrong way. i prefer the nostalgic and far more accepting communities of minecraft, and there are so many creators that are really great. sometimes it sucks though when minecraft creators you like still support/interact with dream and others (like actively try to, i get your in the same area if a creator happens to be in a large vc and hes in thats kinda whatever to me). anyways dream stans are so scary, and i hate the way he doesn't even make an attempt to stop them. also that thread ro linked has really changed my view on a lot of creators i thought were alright.
I actually recently got into hermitcraft and empires after watching the life series and I would have to say it does seem better. For one, a lot of the creators are older and more established in their careers which I think helps them deal with the negative effects of having a fandom, and although I think there are negative aspects to the community they seem to have an overall positive relationship with it. Also, any problematic things they've said or done seem to be things from the past that have been apologized for and views that have changed, but even then the ones that have these issues at all seem to be few and far between. I do think it sucks that the dsmp has gotten so big that creators who have been around for far longer have had their careers and fanbases defined by others based on something out of their control, but the popularity of the dsmp has also helped overall mcyt so it's probably mostly positive for them. I think there are still problems with this kind of parasocial behavior in all of these communities, but I don't think that's necessarily the creators faults and may in part come from this sort of new culture we've had with mcyt and overall fandom for a while now, as well as just like. Human nature which we can't really change but we can try to recognize and manage I do have empathy for certain dream stans though. I get very strong hyper fixations and though I try to engage in a more healthy way, seeing criticism of something I love can hurt and make me feel like I'm bad for ever loving it... And that's talking about things like seeing criticism for Steven Universe and the Magnus Archives, something where I recognize that I really shouldn't feel like that. So I can't imagine how something like this feels for some of these people
An interesting note about this! I feel like the reactions people had in the DSMP fandom to the allegations had a lot to do with what specific cc’s you follow. I was and am a kinda casual fan when compared to some people in the fandom, but I was still pretty active when everything went down, so I saw some shit. But, the thing is, I’m an SBI fan. I didn’t really interact with many Dream Stan’s. I saw lots of people disown him, I saw a lot of people saying to believe the victims, and even a lot of people removing his character from fics and comics or just said they’d always portray him as a villian. Lots of “if you support Dream, get out” kinda shit. This doesn’t really add anything, but I hope it might bring you a little more peace regarding the fandoms reaction to this specific event; A lot of people were great about it. That being said, I’m very sorry that there were so many assholes that fucked with you; it may be a hollow apology, but it’s a problem you should never have had to deal with. Shits fucked.I hope that you’re happy over in hermitcraft/empires :) I hope it’s less stressful, has less racists, and that you have fun! The fanart looks sick ;)
I remember when Taylor Swift got an 8/10 rating on Pitchfork and her fans doxxed the journalist involved. I wish Taylor would've spoken out against this - even if she didn't ask them to, it happened on multiple occassions and she should've condemned that behaviour. Her fans also harassed ex-boyfriends and sent them death threats without a peep from her. I guess the moral of the story is that fans will act like you are a heretic for any criticism against their gods.
her fans definitely engage in cultish behavior and she knows it but would never say anything or try to stop it, she seems to like it that way, considering her fans have "helped" her clean her name when rightfully accused of something
Taylor is against bullying only when it affects her. Her fandom bullies people (her exes, critics) and she never stops it even when her fans overstep their boundaries
@@Anonymous-bi5pv I'm totally guessing here but I would assume @ ihvy might be referring to "accusations" (there's a lot of documented proof but we'll put it in quotes) of Taylor dating a 17-18 year old when she was in her early 20s and going as far as to buy a house next to his after they'd only been together for a couple months. He was a Kennedy and she'd also been publicly obsessing over the family for at least a year before she started dating him, and at the time he was her only conceivable "in" to the family which had clearly been a long term goal of hers. It was...... very fucking bizarre to say the least, whether or not he was 18 when they started dating she's like 5 years older than him, which is a large age gap when you're in your late teens-early 20s. Fans have deflected this behavior by claiming that Taylor was just "overcorrecting" after being in relationships with much much older men as a 19-20 year old. And to be fair John Mayer was very weird/focused on her while she was still a teenager/barely legal before they started dating, and I don't want to deligitimize her experiences in that situation because it was not appropriate or okay in the slightest, but that doesn't like.... magically make her behavior better, either. Both can be fucked up at the same time. And if OP wasn't referring to that, then several of her 1989 era music videos were accused of being racist (specifically anti-black, in the form of cultural appropriation and glamorizing the colonial period) which was highly documented and people have discussed it better than me. Her fans also have excuses for those videos because of course. And if it isn't THAT I don't even know, maybe the private plane thing lmao
I'm a swift fan for her music and... Yeah. This is 100% true. Obviously there's been false accusations (kimye 💀 or Demi being like 'Tay doesn't support Britney' when Taylor had actually donated money to her legal team for years) and her name did get dragged through the mud in 2016 but that doesn't mean that there's no room for legitimate criticism. Tbf lots of swifties I followed on twitter condemned the private jet use, and the fans doing the dogpiling are in the 0.1%, but its still unacceptable. Edit: Also Taylor seems to have withdrawn from all socials apart from tiktok, but she should still be aware of the behaviour of her twitter fans, cos ignoring what they do in your name isn't a strategy
I’m glad you made this video even if it might cause backlash from Dream fans. I think this is something important to talk about. We can’t just blindly defend creators, and it’s really upsetting that people build parasocial relationships with their fans that are so strong that they could do almost anything and “get away with it” so to speak. I think it’s important we talk about why that’s wrong.
i was formerly a huge fan of dream because i had a hyperfixation on the dream smp (i have autism and adhd so it was intense lol!), and i’ll be honest, i was a little scared to watch this video. however, i love your content, and i have seen that you have always been a compassionate person who considers everyone’s feelings, so i decided to watch it. and i’m so glad i did. you were incredibly right when you spoke about how this type of fear of criticism is very harmful and isolating for a fandom. i was an extremely insecure person struggling with my sexuality and non-binary gender identity, and i also have autism, adhd, and anxiety, so dream’s community felt very safe for me. i’m also white, which likely made me feel even safer because i didn’t notice as much how dream and his fanbase pivot from racial issues so quickly compared to lgbtqia+ and neurodivergent issues. nevertheless, dream and his fanbase was a safe space for me that i wasn’t willing to give up, and dream smp content made me so happy because i was hyperfixated on it. all of this made me feel like any criticism of my favorite creators was an attack on me and that safe space that i had cultivated for myself. thank you for making your video both critical and sympathetic at the same time. i know that some of his fans will see this as an attack, but i didn’t see it as that at all. and that’s saying something because i’m very sensitive when it comes to my interests and former interests since i have always been interested in things that are considered lame or weird, and have faced bullying as a result. you were so understanding, and i appreciate that so much as someone genuinely trying to learn how to avoid becoming unhealthily attached to something again. i don’t know if i can control my obsessiveness over things i’m hyperfixated on, but i won’t know for sure if i don’t try! listening to what you had to say was so valuable to me. as a fan, i tried to ignore criticism of dream, again because i felt it was an attack on me rather than him. this was very harmful, as i usually had no idea why people didn’t like him or were upset with him. this made me susceptible to the thing that dream likes to do, which is to just say “love you guys” after a half-assed apology or after a serious allegation. now that i am out of dream’s fandom, i can see how harmful that parasocial relationship was. i used to joke about the parasocial relationship thing. but it is a serious thing when it comes to him being forgiven so easily and believed so easily when he gives a shitty apology or belittles potential victims time and time again. dream has a habit of lashing out at everyone who just wants him to see the damage of certain things that he does, and it’s clear that most of his apologies don’t come from a place of understanding what he actually did wrong or what hurt he caused (usually to minorities). anyways, this was really long but i just wanted to thank you ro. i know the stressfulness of fearing the dream fandom’s wrath. thank you for making this video because now i concretely know that i don’t want to support dream in any way anymore because his behavior towards his fanbase is not healthy for the fans. love you ro, stay safe!
I just want you to know no one will shame you for liking or watching, he made the choices he did and made space for you to open up to new creators. I've seen many creators go bad and it's not the viewers fault until they needlessly defend them. Hope it gets better for you, and don't blame yourself.
I will never forget when I saw clips of Dream going on a stream and saying doxxing “wasn’t that bad”. As if it’s not an actual crime. As if it’s not still actively putting someone’s life in danger. Tbh if this isn’t him trying to send hints of encouragement to doxx, idk what is
Dream said that out of personal experience, and he said doxxing is bad IN THE SAME STREAM. He said it’s rare to have people come over to your house if you get doxxed.
I hate being trans on the internet, and on RUclips. It's the one thing stopping me from making a channel about living the low-tech life. You inspire me every day.
I’m not trans but I hope you’re able to do it if it’s a passion of yours. You deserve to start a RUclips channel just like the rest of us! I’ve had these thoughts just because I’m not conventionally attractive (not comparing the two). The internet can be such a brutal place.
oh man, this made me think a LOT about the ways that autistic people specifically are mocked for the way we discuss our interests. I've been thinking abt it recently -- being someone with incredibly strong interests in things, particularly ones deemed "immature", means you're ostracized and thought of as weird. obv special interests can be around someone really nasty, or can consume your life to a point that's no longer healthy, but even healthy and normative ways that autistic ppl express our affection for something is demeaned by greater society. even other neurodivergent ppl tend to turn on autistic ppl when we discuss the ways we are specifically looked down upon. also, for whatever reason, a lot of fringe interests (being a furry comes to mind) are dominated by autistic ppl, and as a result a lot of the bullying and abuse they face intersects w/ autistm-specific ableism. I haven't thought abt this enough to make it a greater point but it's something that I'm so regularly upset about. It can be very hard for autistic people to hear criticisms of things we like, b/c those interests are so core to ourselves and b/c we're oftentimes mocked for them, so I particularly understand why someone might want to avoid criticisms of things they like. hell, I have special interests in shows I know are bad writing-wise (and have some uhhhhh Problematic episodes) and seeing ppl talk about why they don't particularly like it hurts. I hope all the autistic Dream stans can get more healthy, less parasocial special interests. I feel very lucky as someone on the spectrum that, while I've had some weird phases, I've been able to mostly stay in the realm of what I consider healthy interests for myself. obv the "getting personally offended when someone says they don't like a pretty mid-tier show" is nnnot great, but y'know, I'm working on it. Also please find someone to stan who doesn't hate us and minimize our experiences, that would be great
Mine is Antartica, the time I jad an argument about it was my family being sure it was not a continent. And talking like I was dumb because they're 5 to think that and I'm alone.
You know the basic life tips we're all taught as children, stuff like stranger danger, don't do drugs etc? We should add "celebrities are not your friends" to that.
I really empathize with these fans because I used to have a huge parasocial relationship with One Direction back in the day - I was deeply unhappy with my environment in real life so I felt I had to form an attachment with five random dudes. I noticed focusing on what made me happy in real life and finding fulfillment there brought me out of this submersion in stan culture. However, it took me a lot of time to get there, and I noticed I'll slip back into parasocial attachment if I'm particularly struggling mentally - fortunately, it's at most a tiny fraction of what it used to be. Thank you for another beautifully empathetic and nuanced video Ro :)
Well done on getting out of that mentality, I can imagine how hoard it must have been when your happiness is dependent on celebrities, especially when the fan base is quite dependent on each other. I will say that I'd love to see a dissection on the whole fan x 1D parasocial relationship and the nuances with how 1D were hated cos the forefront of their fan base were mostly teenage girls as well as how it came to be like that.
ro, you are the most eloquent, beautiful and audacious (in a good way obv) creator on youtube. i love watching your videos and hearing your takes. standing up against dream stans can’t be easy. you go, girl 🖤
As a former dream fan who saw people get the shit bullied out of them for it (like my class had an entire ongoing joke mocking dream fans outright knowing there were people in the class who were invested in the DSMP) thank you for approaching this topic with kindness and care while still being firm. It’s really refreshing to see people not mock others and get drawn down this cycle of “this side is…. that side is….” while still addressing issues.
You really have a wonderful way with words, Ro. Sometimes it almost sounds more like you’re reciting poetry than a commentary piece. The way you deliver things feels so powerful yet it doesn’t get too pretentious.
Regardless of whether the allegations are true or not, the way that people were so quick to harass the victims + try to rip their stories apart for some popular RUclips guy they barely know is really upsetting, especially considering that they'd ruin other creators they're less attached to for more "mundane" reasons. As an autistic person who hyperfixates on creators I like, I believe there's a very fine line between simply hyperfixating and being dependent on someone for ALL of your happiness. It frustrates me seeing just how wrapped around his finger Dream's fanbase seem to be + the lack of attempt from Dream to properly establish boundaries that will reduce harm is also not great. I know there are many fans/ex-fans who just want to see Dream improve and will keep giving him the benefit of the doubt because they're so used to investing time and effort into someone who couldn't possibly return it no matter how many "I love yous" he says. I am so happy that you made this video. I hope that the situation will open some people's eyes and they'll realize just how absorbed in their more-than-parasocial bubble they have become.
I agree so much with your first point!!! he lacks tact and even if by some miracle the allegations are false (which he quite literally admitted that they weren’t) his response was highly telling of his character. his response to controversies in general has always been similar in that he doesn’t truly admit to wrongdoings, and the “hes young and can’t manage such quick rise to fame” excuse can only get you so far. at some point you have to take responsibility, and even comparing other white boy minecrafters handling their controversies, they manage to hold some tact and at least make a formal apology. its just wild to me that one of the biggest faces in the scene is also one of the most irresponsible and tactless especially with his fanbase, like you said
"try to rip their stories apart"...you mean proving them false? Because falsely accusing someone of something as serious as grooming can ruin not only their reputation, but their LIFE, AND IS A HORRIBLE THING TO DO??
i was a dream stan for about 2 years, I'm a queer poc so when I first joined the fandom I felt like it was one of the most accepting communities I had ever been a part of (mind you I was 17 and going through a cluster fuck of identity crises). but as time went on I found that the deeper you went into the community, the more it showed its true colors. racism, transphobia, antisemitism, it was like a little cocktail of how far people were willing to go to defend a man they ultimately didn't know. last yeamucr dream said something about getting a thrill out of quote-retweeting people that openly criticized him on twitter that was terrifying, and it pushed me to leave the community. I loved dream and his content, and I wish I could said I had a clean slate when I left the community, but the truth is that I was an angry stan too, I got very defensive over anything mildly negative related to dream and I refused to see anything beyond what I was conditioned to think by the creator and the community. I can say these things in retrospect but ofc back then I thought that it was normal and healthy, and I was just having fun. but I really do hope people, stans, start understanding that criticism isn't hate.
As an ex mcyt and dream fan people inside and outside of the fandom NEED to look at the way these creators talk about accountability. So much of the allegations or offensive clips that are brought up against the creators are dismissed by the fandom for trying to get them "cancelled" and the reason this response is so common is because of the mcyt creators! Their language and tone when addressing criticism and allegations is downright manipulative to a certain degree. Accountability is thrown to the wind when they tell their fans the people who believed the victims are "gullible" and "band wagoners", even going so far as to say the victims making accusations are "clout chasers" who want attention. I honestly have more empathy for the fandom because of this rhetoric that is constantly fed to them by not just the creators, but their own fans. RUclips accounts dedicated to dismissing allegations made against these creators with hundreds of thousands of subscribers and stans constantly talking about how sweet and kind their favorite creator is and how they couldn't possibly have done something wrong all add up to a toxic and unhealthy response to criticism and allegations. If you are reading this and are part of the mcyt and dream fandom please PLEASE watch this video in its entirety with an open mind, and think critically when others in your fandom are dismissing issues being brought up.
@@silverdrag0n_ I said that his comment was an example of the PROBLEM, I'm not a jschlatt fan and I was using his quote as an example of RUclipsrs language when addressing allegations and such.
As an autistic person with a special interest in the Dsmp, as well as content surrounding it, I'm realizing I can't go on ignoring stuff like this. Dream has never been my favorite by far, but for a while I absolutely considered myself a fan. I've only ever seen the good side of the fandom, mostly Instagram and RUclips, where I focused on fanart and the direct content from the streamers themselves. Hearing about the part of the fandom on Twitter that acts absolutely horrible is like a slap in the face, that the community I've always felt safe in because of the prevalence of neurodivergance and lgbt+, is actually not that good at all. I've absolutely seen the stereotype of the "dream stan" but realizing that it exists in extreme prevalence makes me feel horrible. Seeing other people's POVs when it comes to the allegations are making me reconsider my status supporting Dream.
37:00 it almost seems like with these fandoms theres a sunk* cost fallacy. They received so much hate for being in the community that the community and creator has to be worth it Edit:typo
im not sure if its a typo and im truly not trying to be rude, its the sunk cost fallacy. named so bc it references the amount time/money/effort that people dedicate or 'sink' into something. i really think you are on to something here. ro makes a good point about people wanting to keep being able to consume things that comfort them, but i do think there are some people who react from a place where they're so invested they dont feel like they can divest themselves from it, for a multitude of reasons
I feel like despite the satire this comment section is actually talking about this in a somewhat mature manner rather than just “dream fan bad. Dream fan die” a lot of dream fans are just misguided kids, and not everyone who likes the dream smp actually likes dream. After seeing the way he handled his conflicts I couldn’t really find it in me to respect him and I had been a dream smp fan for over a year. I still like the smp story at least for the earlier days and I still like the dynamics between Wilbur and his friends and enjoy “bench trio / sbi” side of the smp but I’ve kinda grown past it
@@anitaremenarova6662 I got into it bc of an animatic I saw for the mind electric and I was curious about what the animatic meant so I watched wilburs playlist and it was super cool and fun but I never really cared much about dream
I will say, a lot of people forget about Anastasia, who was the first person to come out with her story. This is because she's been completely inactive on Twitter. She privated her account because she was receiving mass harassment and death threats. Amanda hasn't been active, but she is getting legal help so it makes sense. So many people harassed her snd her account is still public. I really do hope those two are alright.
I don't have anything to really to add to the discussion. Just that when you ended the video with "I hope your life gets better", I audibly said "Thanks Ro. I hope yours does too." Sometimes when your life is absolute shit, you just need a complete stranger wishing you well to help it feel a little less shit. We're all going through something.
I think you were really kind and empathetic to Dream stans, more than I've seen from any content creator. If they bully you they didn't watch the video because this was a breath of fresh air. And speaking of fresh air, and fridge biohazards I currently have a bag of what is just mold now because I wanted to see what happened to some cheese that was slightly moldy, I found it yesterday after nearly a year. I'm an adult with a child
as a former member of his fanbase and current stan twitter user you're truly braver than the troops for this. it's necessary to have this discussion but at the same time fans can and will have your head for even half these points, truly wishing you all the best to avoid that flak
I know ro probably won't see this but the ending of this video stopped me from going back to a toxic relationship.. I don't think ro could ever realized how much some simple sentences she has said have helped me so so much.... or how some unglamourized experiences she has had (like with ocd), make me feel truely understood on a real level that I have never found anywhere else.. I hope some part of her knows that SHE TOO is the parasocial comfort youtuber and distraction from life, for at least one person going through a terrible time. ❤
i'm an ex-dsmp fan, but still currently enjoy other mcyt content. i might've called myself a dream fan wayyy back pre-covid, when dream's youtube videos first started taking off and before he had such an online presence. but the way he handles himself through every controversy is clear he doesnt care about any potential harm he's causing, the victims, and anyone else caught in the crossfire. he cares about how his image is affected. dream has adhd, and as someone with adhd, i can understand the sensitivity to rejection and criticism. but it is something that CAN be controlled. it's not easy to not get emotional and want to lash out, but it is easy to still acknowledge if you've done something wrong, apologize to those hurt, and be better. dream never does better. time and time again he makes the same mistakes and reacts with vitriol to the victims. he rarely truly apologizes, and only ever does so when backed into a corner, and well after his stans have caused further damage, and pushes everything under the rug as soon as he gets the chance. there was a lot of infighting in the dsmp fandom, most of which was between dream stans and the rest of us. any time someone would express disdain for dream, they'd take it as a personal affront against themselves. they'd constantly misconstrue any criticism against dream as blind hate towards him (and by extension, them). hell, they'd even find ways to make things that had nothing to do with dream, ABOUT dream, so they could defend him. they IDENTIFY *WITH* dream. and dream does nothing but encourage that mindset, that he and them are "on the same team." he constantly rewards their behavior with "love you guys" tweets on his priv after drama and weird things like selling his snapchat number to talk to him with, and other private info to be "close" to him. its dangerous, is what it is. I hope with the gradual dying out of the dsmp fandom that these dream stans will lose interest and finally wake up to the manipulation they've gladly been leaning into this entire time. it's sickening to watch.
I went through an extremely similar situation you did. The longer I was in the DreamSMP fandom the worse it got, from the outside and inside perspective. Over the span of quarantine i would interact with his content less and less, only to be violently dragged back into the circle by each outrage and over-corrected action dream made. It was painful. I was (and still am) fans of other creators in and associated with the MCYT community, and seeing others slowly distance themselves from dream should've been a telling sign. Over each course of drama and throwback, everything from my interest to my mental health deteriorated as I was forced to watch the reaction and response of each allegation. It ruined my experience, and i slowly cut off my contact with all MCYT and associates in general. Months later, i would slowly re-watch and reinstate my interest in those previous creators (minus dream & co) and overall i have enjoyed it alot more. It feels like healing from secondhand damage, as the creators i watch now make good apologies, know what boundaries you do not cross, and overall provide a safer space than the DREAMSMP fandom ever did. Anyways, i hope this makes sense ^^ i pray my 2 cents add to the conversation in a useful way :)
47:30 ohmygod this part of the video is just incredible, really cuts to the center of this whole thing. the survey results are honestly a great dissection of the wider trends of online fandom culture you started talking about in your john mulaney video. groups of young, white queer people discovering themselves and how their lives intersect with politics for the first time (since they're white they weren't forced to do this as young children in the same way nonwhite children are). they develop parasocial attachments to these young white men who play games and tell jokes as "comfort creators," men whose main draw is that they're doing the bare minimum, that they're not openly bigoted towards THEM specifically (not necessarily towards nonwhite people). they find a community where they may genuinely feel safe, but that sense of safety is insular and self serving. if that community becomes unsafe for someone else: if it facilitates SA and gr**ming, if it normalizes racist or ableist language, the FIRST victim is THEM, the fans. that person who claimed Dream was a victim of his allegations was very revealing because if Dream is also a victim here, then what does that say about them. recently SA allegations came out against an indie singer/songwriter whose music I hadn't really followed, but I checked in with the news anyways just to stay in the loop. the comments were SO revealing. people were shaking and crying about having to take his songs off their playlists. someone was crushed that they no longer wanted to dance to his songs at their wedding. I saw the real pain these fans were feeling, but at the same time these comments felt almost...soulless? like, they read an article about a woman going through possibly the worst experience of her life, and with the way that the internet and social media so DEHUMANIZES people, they could turn around and make it about themselves without a second thought. and in PUBLIC no less, where she could potentially see it, where other victims of abuse could potentially see it. I wanted to sympathize with this feeling of having this great, meaningful art forever tainted, but the way the discussion was so flagrantly presented just felt deeply selfish. I also feel there's a conversation to be had about "comfort content," and what people different people view as "political." you could say any famous young white guy is inherently political, just on the fact that his whiteness and maleness are part of what got him to where he is. but for others (esp white people), it's the opposite. he's seen as neutral, the default. there can be safety in the familiar when you're part of the dominant group, where racist microaggressions are just another part of that familiarity and they wash over you until someone points them out to you. then the bubble is broken, and you have to decide if you're gonna finally step out of it for good, or if you're gonna turn around and tell the person who popped it that YOU were the victim and THEY were the real aggressor, just for bursting it in the first place.
ive always felt weird when people make comments like “omg i can NEVER LIKE THIS PERSONS STUFF AGAIN” after a popular person is has serious allegations under their belt… youve taken a possibility disastrous thing and made it about how it affects you as opposed to any victims of the situation. what really gets me is when stuff like this happens and then people will go “if (insert other popular person here) is ever problematic ill die” or similar statements. we dont know these people, and we will never know them personally. it just feels so weird and self centered.
excellent excellent comment, the ROC allegations were such a telling moment. I think this could work the opposite way as well, with people relishing in the downfall of artists for their own selfishness. After 2.5 years i (a black genderfluid non male kpop enjoyer) finally waned myself off of Kpop twitter. The biggest reasoning was school and being busy, but an exhausting trend i noticed was when groups would make sexist/racist/ overall problematic comments and behaviors and the antis of those groups would celebrate the fact they could use it as a legitimate reason to hate them. Even with groups I hate for their behavior, its like antis would anticipate for a black individual to be harmed so that they can pretend to defend black fans in their vitriol.
@@periwinkleadidas RIGHT?? They'll wait for something bad to happen in order to use it as fodder for stan wars, and then turn around and promote their fave for being "unproblematic" when we know damn well we don't know any of these people, and the whole reason this keeps happening is people keep searching for an unproblematic celebrity to stan when that simply doesn't exist!!! I'm so sorry you had to deal with all the mess that goes on on kpop twitter. the entire industry rips from black art and black fans are aware of this, but when nonblack fans "discover" this for the first time, they turn around and use the most blatant examples of racism as a gotcha instead of actually examining the harm being done. It's exhausting!!!
Super well put-of course, it’s ok to feel these things and feel disappointed and hurt, I understand that intimately, but keep that to yourself. Someone is having their life ruined right now, and it’s not you.
for context I’m a queer, indigenous, person who falls under the trans umbrella, I also have autism and ADHD I used to be in the Dream SMP fandom [~July 2020 - September 2021] however I wasn’t into Dream and I’ve gotta say, this was the worst fandom experience I’ve ever had, even during my time in the Dream SMP community, I never liked him [I was more into Wilbur Soot and Fundy] and at some point I mentioned my dislike for him after the indigenous war cry incident and how he handled it, I did this on Twitter, what does Twitter do? dogplie, what happened to me? I got dogpiled. I was spammed gore, death threats, doxxing threats, people threatened my reptiles, called me slurs and so much more. overtime near the end of my hyperfixation I drew fanart for the Dream SMP less and less and began drawing more of my new hyperfixation, and got backlash for that! it was pure insanity, I have many other stories, but I thought I’d talk about that one in particular, since it stuck with me a lot, I’m mostly desensitized to gore but it shocked me with how fine people were with sending me it, I feel so bad for people who are still in the community, I do hope they leave, it can be hard if it’s a hyperfixation but it improved my mental health so much and I hope things go well for those who are leaving/recently left the fandom, same goes for those who left the fandom awhile ago [very sorry for weird English, it’s my second language, it’s 4 AM and RUclips mobile sucks]
Holy hell I'm so sorry you went through that, what a vile way to treat someone. It's insane how comfortable people are with switching into full-on, unironic villain behavior when they think theyre "defending" someone (who is not only objectively in the wrong but also doesn't know they exist and doesnt give 2 shits about them.)
omg how dare you, an indigenous POC, have an opinion on a racist thing he did /sar jokes aside, that was really shitty and im so sorry that happened to you!!
genuinely thank u sm for this video, ive been a fan of creators who are only associated with him and never been a personal fan of him so ive always been critical of his behaviors (especially as a poc) while being intrinsically aware of his actions but it was frustrating because any criticism of him always ignored nuances and didnt account for the demographic of the fan bases, immediately dismissing the valid communities built. this gave room for him to build even more parasocial relationships as he was able to dismiss ALL critique as mindless hate, which was seen in the recent allegations. so glad you brought up his twitlonger because he has a tendency to bring up buzzwords and never truly apologize. he deflects and minimizes, so while he definitely admitted to, at best, something highly irresponsible, he was able to skew it by making it seem as if it wasn’t that bad to which his stans take it as an immediate pass for the entire situation. another mcyt named bizly has been critical of dream before and when the allegations came out, he had pointed out that even if the claims were false, it is still highly irresponsible and inconsiderate to immediately go “they’re fake cant hear you” and go on the defensive, and in the past bizly has also discussed the parasocial relationships dream harbors and he had faced massive amounts of harassment for it (bringing this up just to show that even when members of his own social circle speak out against it, dream still manages to escape scott free) ((also dream hardly truly utters the words “i’m sorry” as in all his apologies he manages to deflect some of the blame, and truly never attempted to quell his fans from attacking bizly)) it’s infuriating that he is such a prominent name, considering the mcyt scene is so vast and harbors some of the most diverse gaming communities (which there is still not much in the name of diversity sometimes but by comparison, mcyt is leagues ahead of other gaming scenes) and there is just always an association with him, and whats a bit odd to me is that not even that long ago everyone was so keen to dismiss and hate on dream for arbitrary things (his sexuality, his fanbase demographic, the speedrun) but the silence surrounding actual harmful acts? very sinister. sorry for the long comment, just genuinely so glad there is someone so eloquent actually speaking about this and taking into account the nuances
ANOTHER BIZLY FAN IN THE WILD‼️‼️ i know this is off topic to your comment but out of curiosity do you listen to just roll with it as well??? i dont have any social media for the most part and never get to talk to people about the podcast WAHAHA
@@ARACHNIDPARTY i only watche the jrwi podcast with wilbur in it and that was a while ago im sorry 😭but i do see a pretty tight knit fanbase for it on tumblr if u ever wish to venture there :]
Ayy, same boat here mate! Not a direct fan but A fan of people who associate with him. You made some great points; I hope you’re doing well ♥️ I need to check out Bizly I guess lmao
When I was a dream watcher I related to him and the way he dealt with controversy, but fortunately I was old enough to recognize that within myself and see it as a red flag. I like to be right. I have been the powerful one in relationships, and, despite my best intentions, I have hurt people. I'm lucky enough to not be a public figure and to be young, still learning and growing from my past toxic relationships. What I have done in the past hurt people, and I was also hurt. Being idolized by someone is very fun until you realize you have become their everything, and suddenly your actions have a lot more consequences than they did before. Thankfully I recognized those imbalances in my own relationships and isolated myself from them. I am still learning what healthy attachment looks like, and I'm happier now than I have been in a while. I do not defend dream. There is no excuse for his behavior and how it's been perpetuated over the years, especially given his status and track record. The fact that he doesn't have a PR team is continuously staggering. I do understand him though, and I think that's what made me ultimately detach from the fanbase. The amount of obsession about him as a person is not healthy for him or his viewers. He cultivates a cult-like culture because it feels good and gets him money. I genuinely don't think he thinks about the effects that has on him or the psyche of his very young fanbase. I hope dream is deplatformed, or at the very least that his current methods change. He consistently causes harm with his actions (though I believe he doesn't intend to) and that's grossly negligent and scummy. It's reflective of Twitter culture to its natural conclusion. Deifying people who want to be deified leads to power imbalances and abuse. It's not safe and it's not healthy, but it is incredibly attractive. (Tangent I think it's pretty funny that dream's character in the Minecraft roleplay is literally a god with a poor conception of boundaries)
This is probably the most compassionate video on the topic of fandoms I've ever seen. Almost nobody starts or ends with the acknowledgement that just because "fandom" has become a marketable, sellable-to category in the public eye that people still get bullied for being.... nerds, essentially. I feel for these kids. A lot of my childhood and teenhood was the same, it just happened offline, I was just existing and liking a thing and almost never even talking about it to anyone because.... talking about it just got me mocked. It got me branded, it got me isolated, it got me denied access to social groups because I was somehow doing something wrong by having fun and enjoying myself. And the bullying is so much worse now because of the way it can be decentralised, a dozen people can be tweeting at you to off yourself and that's a much smaller mental burden on THEM and a much greater one on the victim. And the rest of it... well, trust Ms Ramdin to have the best takes and a compassionate perspective on the way people are bad, sometimes. Between this and the JDvsAH video, I'm no longer surprised by the nuance, I'm simply... enjoying it. It's like a pressure valve, hearing someone make things that make sense.
I really love this video, I've been in so many fandoms that have been made fun of all the time (kpop, anime, etc.) And it really encapsulates why the reaction to allegations and insults are so personal. It's a usually very unhealthy attachment where you don't know where your Fandom self ends and when your real self begins. It becomes such a big part of you that any attack against what you enjoy is an attack on your own self. I really appreciate the respect you gave people in this video -t hough I don't expect less haha, it's still well appreciated since people are so quick to judge and hate on people in fandoms as they're easy targets, especially since their reactions can be quite emotional.
imo, no creator at dream's size should EVER talk like that with fans, platonically or romantically. no matter what, there is going to be an inevitable power dynamic that just cant be avoided and it is no good for ANYONE. dream is constantly irresponsible with his fans and enables their horrific behaviour which is why i can never, EVER feel sympathy or believe him.
I dont know if you know him but another RUclips creator called philza sometimes gives advice to new streamers or people of that kind and he does that knowing his platform and their dynamic and I think that that is the only way to engage 1 on 1 with fans
if the allegations are true or not, it doesnt matter. the way that dreams stans reacted to the victim coming forward, completley tearing them apart shows that they are not supportive to victims. if this turns oit to be true or not to be true, if this happens again (or happens for the first time) then the victim is way less likely to come forward after seeing how they responded. most dream stans scare me because they are just so ride or die for some dude on the internet that they do not even know
@@theboondoggliest That saying is more for people who come out of the woodwork with a massive twitter thread alleging they’ve been groomed. You have to do an investigation on that kind of thing because there have been way too many times where the allegations where proven false.
@@guyferrari8124 idk if im just not understanding what your saying but in every grooming or SA situation there has to be an investigation, not believing or supporting a victim even when you dont have all the details perpetuates the mindset that SA and grooming survivors arent telling the truth, and lead to people who have gone through this with no support (which is something that happens extremely often, speaking from experience). Im not saying that people who DO lie about stuff like this are good people, theyre not, they damage peoples belief in actual victims, but the number of false allegations are extremly small in comparison go true allegations. So yes, believe the victim
@@theboondoggliest Listen, I’ve been in the twitter dramasphere through a few fandoms and I will tell you there has been enough times where somebody tries to get someone thrown to the twitter dogs for false grooming allegations for reasons that can range from monetary to petty to personal gain that you can’t take anything at face value. This goes for both sides as well, as you can’t immediately believe someone once they put out a defense. Serious claims like these need to be taken with nuance because they can ruin lives. (Not saying that’s what’s happening with dream, I’m talking in general)
I'd like to genuinely thank you for portraying parasocial relationships in a whole, not just "ur weird if u feel like this". Especially as someone with a horribly personal connection with one of the creators youve mentioned in this video (jschlatt. yeah, i know.) relationships like this are so fucked, and my attatchment to jschlatt has genuinely fucked me up horribly. Ive spent countless nights crying and hating myself both for liking him and for not being him. its not his fault, but in the case of Dream it absolutely is.
I love how much compassion Ro had towards the mcyt community. so many ppl (including myself) have devoted 2+ years of all of our time and energy into the fandom. I’ve finally been able to step away a bit but it genuinely felt like my life was built around it and just recently I was able to recognize how unhealthy it was. I understand how hard it is for ppl to accept that something that has brought them so much joy and comfort isn’t all good.Sending love to everyone in the fandom. I know the situation really took a toll some ppls mental health including my own and I had been much less involved in the fandom at that point.
as a former dream stan, i want to thank you for making this video. although i didnt get the chance to fill out the survey (which is totally okay sending it out so many times was crazy), i was looking forward to this because i knew you would be able to provide the level of nuance needed for this topic, and you absolutely delivered. you hit the nail on the fucking head. wonderful video as always, stay safe !
And Manatreed situation wasn’t even false 💀 most of the older fans understand and know that it’s true but that Dream couldn’t confirm it without doxing himself. Younger fans to this day believe Manatreed was innocent, and exactly the same kind of separation happened with the recent allegations too :\
I'm getting to the end of this and I gotta say--this is really well done. You bring up great points that are *universal* not just about internet culture. I'm 31 now and have been involved in my local rave scene for 11 years and a lot of the allegations Dream has can be applied to soooo many powerful figures and their fans. It's truly sickening how often everything you are describing.happens.
im starting to feel like my comments on your videos are getting repetitive, but i just cannot stress what a talented writer you are. i am a former dsmp fan and the way you described the shame i feel abt it now is very accurate. this was great
i was called problematic by my old dttwt groupchat for tweeting abt parasocial relationships like 2 years ago and then they removed me from the group 😭 i’m so glad i left that hellscape of a website and fandom
@@rhyssocialawkwardness8170 OH MY GOD I FORGOT ABOUT THE TEXT LINE??? literally insane. i dont blame the chronically online neurodivergent kids as much as i blame the ADULT CREATOR for cultivating this shit. also not saying being neurodivergent or a minor is a defence against all criticism, i haven’t gotten my government assigned lobotomy as ordered by joe biden (#godblessamerica), but i am more willing to cut them slack than the literal adult setting up a text line, making a private twitter account, and selling his baby pics in a usb bracelet to his child fanbase 😕😕
One of the biggest problems I have with Dream is how he manipulates his very big, young and impressionable audience, by feeding into this unhealthy parasocial narrative that helps cultivate some absolutely outrageous behavior, like harrassment, doxxing, etc. I'm not saying Dream is responsible for the unsaviory actions of every single stan made on his behalf, but due to the size and age-range of his fanbase, he does carry a great responsibility for how he interacts with them. A responsibility which he doesn't seem to care about, based on how little he actually acknowledges these very serious things his fans has done, even making fun of others for caring about it. In short, Dream reads to me as the type of guy that believes he's above others, and likes manipulating people into thinking the same without facing the consequences (just look at the Minecraft speedrun fiasco, for instance). Sorry for the rant, but I just had to get it out there, u know?
happy to say i scrolled through all the comments in this video (bc i have nothing better to do) and out of 1.3k comments, 8 were hate comments. as a fan of dream myself, this was a really good and educational video. this whole grooming situation really made me step back and be able to criticize a lot of the ways dream responds to controversy. your videos are a delight to watch, as always
I started doing the same thing and I’m so happy you went through 1000 comments first esp because I go through the replies too. I’m so glad there’s only been 8. I could feel Ro’s anxiety radiating through the screen. I hope that’s as far as it goes. Ro was so brave to do this. I know nothing about Minecraft but just through other YT videos over the years I’m aware of Dream and how dedicated his stans are and you don’t want to mess with them. It’s good to see you said you were a fan and not a stan. There lies a big difference esp if people now know where “stan” originated from and it’s not good. Thanks for doing the work!
As someone who briefly had a small Twitch following (15-20 viewers) it is incredibly obvious 1. If someone following you is a child and 2. How you should NOT speak to that person knowing that they are a child. Those with lower levels of maturity are extremely easy to differentiate and I made it a point as a streamer to ban anyone who seemed too immature for discord from my server. It is really not very difficult to set boundaries between yourself and younger viewers. Then again, maybe that’s why I will never be as popular as Dream, I had too many boundaries. 😅
former dream/mcyt fan here! okay to be honest i was a bit more into sbi than the dream team but i guess i did start with the dteam and i've followed a lot of controversies. i don't expect anyone to really read this essay of a fuckin comment but i guess i'll put some final thoughts here regardless. so i first started watching mcyt related stuff really early on, sometime around either very late 2019 or early 2020 when my youtube recs suddenly were covered with dream and dream team related videos, to the point where it was legit difficult to watch anything else. i actually didn't even realize there was a fandom for this stuff until around june of 2020 when i first started finding people on tumblr, in a place that would eventually be labeled critblr. critblr was a very interesting side of the fandom in that pretty explicitly followed the idea of "be critical of your interests," though how it has treated that idea has evolved a lot over time with people coming and going. in the early days, this essentially manifested as a group of people who saw dream's videos and generally liked them but the vibe check came back republican and they were hesitant to become unquestioning stans. there has always been a very particular personality that gets attracted to critblr, often people either in their older teens/early 20s, fairly politically aware but more leftist than liberal, willing to be "edgy" but still holding a strong (leftist) moral code that isn't really present in the rest of the fandom where younger teens/preteens are much more likely to just go along with what has collectively been deemed acceptable without a lot of arguing for what's best. like the rest of the fandom there are also a lot of white, queer, neurodivergent people, it just leans a little older which actually effects a lot more than you might initially think. there were a lot more jokes in the beginning, i think. since dream was still a very new figure there wasn't really anything specific you could criticize him for yet, outside the usual jokes of him being a cringe minecraft youtuber, so a lot of it was speculation, most originating from stuff like how he his first video outed him as a pewdiepie fan and how he did a collaboration with known transphobe notch. as stated in this video, the war cry controversy was the first real controversy he had, occurring fairly soon after the creation of the dream smp (yes that early), but the first controversy to really rock the fandom and the first controversy that LASTED was the cheating scandal. i actually remember i had taken a step back from the fandom as i felt like i had been in it for too long (LOL) and when i came back it was all over everything and i was super confused. other than the manatreed allegations definitely NOT being debunked (i talked about that in a reply to another comment on here somewhere; tldr the mainstream fandom wrote it off cause the allegations originated from findings discovered through doxed info but there are legit reasons to not want him on the platform), this video covers all the controversies pretty well so i won't talk too much about that. rather, i think it'd be more interesting to take a more general look at how dream has responded to controversy in the past, and how his responses have evolved over time. it's easy to default and just say that his responses have always been shit, and to be fair, they kind of have been. but before the most recent allegations (sorry dunno what youtube will let me write here) i genuinely thought that he was getting better about responding to things. he's always been very quick and emotional with his responses and frankly, immature, but it felt like he had been slowing down and trying to listen to his fandom more. he's definitely always had that "raised republican" vibe, but his fandom being so queer and neurodivergent seems to have made him more aware of a lot of perspectives he didn't necessarily know about previously. not to mention the fact that he is, objectively, still pretty young, not that that means he shouldn't have to deal with criticism, but it does put his emotional push backs to controversy into perspective a bit. there's a selfish part of me that's frustrated with this most recent controversy because i still stand by many of the ways i've defended him in the past (and the ways i've criticized him!) but it feels like all that nuance is going to get brushed away because why the fuck does it matter anymore. i'm not defending someone who misuses his power and does questionable shit like that, i'm just not. i'm going to believe the victims even when "evidence" is questionable. it honestly freaks me out that i'm around the same age as amanda (the main victim who came out) so that alone makes me not want to interact with his shit anymore, but it's hard not to be salty after years of attachment. not to mention the fact that many people thought the face reveal was gonna lead to a kind of fandom renaissance. this was TWO FUCKING YEARS of waiting for some people, all because dream was a stubborn motherfucker that didn't wanna show his face until his bestie showed up. but also apparently not since he was ("supposedly") all too willing to send pictures to his adoring teenage fanbase. god it's kind of fucking vile to have to think about that, sorry. i have to thank you for your kindness in approaching this topic. i know dream stans are well-known as being only second to kpop twt stans in terms of intimidating fanbases, but the fact that you tried to see this group with empathy as rational people really means a lot in a realm where most criticisms of dream fans come down to calling them cringe. this is a fandom that in large part was created during quarantine, after all, during a time when just about every person on the goddamn planet was trapped inside losing their minds in ways that we're still largely trying to process. it's an online community that formed out of a collective loneliness and desire for distraction from the horror of the current moment, which when coupled with the feelings of otherness that already naturally come out of being a queer and/or neurodivergent teenager created an incredibly potent allure. i haven't actively watched dream in ages but this video really does feel like a moment where i can formally close that chapter of my life. it's been hard to watch any content from that sphere after the passing of technoblade (big fuck you to dream for doing a stream with techno's dad in the middle of all these most recent allegations btw, that continues to piss me off like nothing else especially with how mainblr/maintwt has used it to basically ignore everything else) but i think i'll be formally signing off for now. shout out to critblr for having a moral code, it sucks to have a community die so suddenly but it gives me some hope that there are still people out there who recognize when there's something more important than holding onto your fav. anyways, guess i'll be dragging myself back into kpop now. funny how that is looking to be the more positive fandom right about now. astronaut out.
I'm not even a dream fan but the part toward the end where you're telling people they aren't destined to be hated, alienated, or ostracized for their mental health and identity made me cry. Not to be doing the thing in the video and getting weirdly parasocial here, but as a nonbinary person who is very much only really dealing with my mental health and untangling these things in my twenties, i just want you to know how much I appreciate your content, the way you articulate your thoughts on these things while maintaining a consistent level of empathy or at least the attempt at understanding someone else on a human level is really, really inspiring. I don't know you but I'm glad your content and voice exists.
Personal favorite part of the video has to be the line graph bit, you hit the nail on the head when talking about how stans treat influencers. Really enjoyed the roast portion as well, I love your writing style. The emotional and personal segments were brilliant too. Like always you knocked it out of the ball park. You're incredibly talented and i'm excited to see you grow. Love ya Ro
It is totally okay to feel scared and anxious when many fandoms, including the Dream community, is full of negativity and hatred for people. Know that you did a really good thing, putting a lot of things people have said and thought into a video. I don’t stan Dream, I used to be a part of the SMP fandom and back when I was in it it seemed so incredible and amazing and supportive, and I’ve met so many people who are still my friends today who were in the fandom. But there’s just too much stress and conflict and idk how to put it into words. But thank you for making this video because I think it speaks for so many people who also feel this way but are too scared to say it. You should be proud of what you’ve done and how much you’ve accomplished. Happy Halloween🎃
This man literally never streams. I dropped the fandom a long time ago bc of how inconsistent he was with streaming. Because of this, I think it’s very strange how loyal and devoted his fans are to him. It’s like they are in love with the idea of him and not him as a real person.
Incredible well made video, Ro. I always appreciate your cinematography towards the end. I really resonated with your ending point: "Change isn't the end of the world. Learning isn't apocalyptical. And sometimes, you have to leave a chapter of your life behind to truly accept what happened during it." Learning to let go is one of the most important things any human being can learn.
I’ve had a mob of people attack me online as well for something i didnt even do, I totally understand the fear. Its like the world is against you and no matter what you say you just add fuel to the fire. You get so much hate and harassment for the littlest things. I don’t think I’ve ever even swore at somebody online negatively unless it was jokingly, i cant imagine how people type death threats and think its ok. Some people might say that you being scared is an overreaction, and they obviously have not been the target of a mob of haters before. Its awful. We support you and frankly this video was amazingly done. I just hope people take time to digest the meaning without instantly hating
rose, yours is one of the single most important voices among the commentary age of youtube. you ask real questions and you do it with the most amazing and open minded approach. i tell my friends who are parents to watch you because their kids get to grow up in a world influenced by you and it is a beautiful thing to witness. i hope you continue to inspire growth in all you do.
Ro, this is so good. I love how you use the behind the camera perspective to humanize and center your own vulnerability. Meeting people with respect for their perspective and validating their feelings is the first part of reaching anyone, and I think you master that. Bless, and good luck
thank you for speaking about this. truly. i'm an ex-dream fan, and after finding out about this situation, immediately me and some other people on tumblr have tried to spread awareness about it. though, we felt like we were yelling into the void, as it's honestly a pretty small corner of tumblr and most of the voices were coming from twitter, voices defending dream. we tried our hardest to keep this situation alive with all the big things happening around it, but eventually most of us grew desperate. we gave up, some moved to new blogs entirely, leaving this shitshow behind. it was honestly really tragic to see how the situation was already being swept under the rug; most of the people whom i follow in the fandom either didnt acknowledge it in the slightest, or made one statement about "staying neutral" (all while still drawing dream fanart and directly supporting him) i myself just gave up on trying to spread anything else on this matter like 2 or 3 days ago. then i stumbled on this video. once again, thank you. and i'm also glad that you didnt just talk about the situation, but also called him out for his irresponsibility with how he handles his platform as a whole, i also loved the survey idea. i've said that i'm an ex fan, but that wasn't until the grooming situation. and as you know, there were tons of controversies beforehand. and when watching this video, i realized that i was either completely unaware of most of the other controversies, or heavily underestimated some of them as i do not have twitter and just take whatever people said on other platforms (for this situation however i did log on to twitter to find proofs). so i'm glad you're also shedding lights on that as well. (on a lighter note, i really really really love the personality you portray! i love the vibe of the video and i adore your jokes! you've just earned a new subscriber!)
Ro, your roasts and run on jokes kill me every time. You're so creative and funny. Every insult/roast makes me laugh more as they compound on each other. You have a wonderful balance of comedic and serious and I really like it!
This kinda helped me process thoughts and feelings after learning of a racist performance happening in a gay bar that i frequent. I was not there for said performance, but i been reading through the aftermath online and seriously considering attending the "townhall meeting" addressing the local queer community's thoughts and concerns. I do love your personal interjects of your own feelings while creating your videos and your extremely sharp wit.
I've been seeing this video in my recommended for a couple days now and I was pretty apprehensive to watch it, I've been a pretty big fan of Dream and the dsmp and other mcyt creators for around two years now. I have seen many allegations and videos made about these creators and I've always been weary of watching them. Most time those videos make fun of creators and fans in ways that disturb me. I think this is the first video I watched that truly had a grasp of what fans experience. Many of us have hyperfixations on these creators, and having situations like this happen fucking sucks. I saw some people wanting to give the benefit of the doubt, after all people have faked allegations before. I saw others completely turning on him, they would delete their accounts and completely move on from mcyt. I also saw people defending him, throwing hate toward the victims and threatening them. I can understand some of that though, when you spend years of your life watching someone, and being a fan of someone who you know has gotten so much hate you want it to be fake. I do think this situation awoke something in many fans. I know there is people who went right back to watching him like nothing happened and others who completely moved onto new things. But you can't deny there was a change in how people view things. I know myself I took a much more critical eye then I used to have, we at this point in time have no clear answer on who is right or wrong. I don't even think there is a right or wrong, there is just and is and an isn't. But this entire thing can be a learning lesson to consider other perspectives. You said it best in the video, many dream stans shut themselves off from outsiders. So many of us already face hardships either it be you are poc, lgbt, neurodivergent or what else. So few communities accept us with open arms, and people hate on it. So viciously hate on it that you might feel embarrassed or scared to talk about it. However, that does make it easier for these parasocial relationships to form, when the world speaks so harshly about you. You want that thing that accepts you to keep accepting you, you might even ignore the signs you should have watched out for. I know I did it. I accepted and defended Dream for so much shit he did wrong in the past because I couldn't accept losing that community that part of my life I put so much time into. I'm kind of rambling at this point. I just really wanted to comment on how this is such a well made and spoken video from someone who clearly didn't want to insult or make of stans. You just want them to think deeper and more critically about creators, and for specifically creators like Dream. To have them understand sometimes people just might be shitty. And you did it in such an emphatic and understanding way. I have no idea if I got my point across I just had to comment and say thank you for this video. You did an amazing job.
i think your insight on being locked into a community is so fucking good. thank you for not just attacking and running, thank you for loving on the people who are stuck because of mental health. you never cease to be kind, youre doing great
54:25 I didn’t expect a whole-hearted, earnest, empathetic response. I’m not a part of the mcyt fandom but your words of kindness and the sentiment of ‘not being determined for pain’ brought me to tears. This is a wonderful, well made and excellently executed video. Thank you for including the intermissions to discuss how you were feeling. It was very honest and real. ❤
As an ex-Cry fan, from a decade ago, Dream feels like 2022 Cry ..... Like uncannily so. The avatar, the voice, the mostly LGBT community, the rabid protectiveness over that space and even n*zis....
I would argue that it is in fact a larger sociological issue. It happens over and over again. It’s the commodification of human beings. And humans are multi faceted, gross, ugly, flawed, mistake making, and sometime remorseless. Commodifying, simplifying, and magnifying all of the flaws of the people we idolise makes us feel close to them but they are also flaws. And so many fanbases smooth over serious flaws and turn them into what makes them “iconic” and sometimes that’s ok but sometimes that is putting your idol above served prison sentences. Dream infuriates me particularly bc he provided a space for queer and neurodivergent kids and teens but like he was a cishet white dude with adhd like….. he probably wouldn’t even have been in his own demographic? Just tired of the cishet white dudes tbh. Like not specific to RUclips just in general they can no longer.
I’m currently writing an essay on new media and how it clouds our perception of reality, dream so happened to be my main subject for the second half, so thank you so much for your research. As some one with no following it would of been near impossible for me to gain enough responses to conduct my own research, your video is so informative on dreams fanbase and stan culture in general.
i think this video was done really well and i appreciate u putting yourself out there. i just wanted to say that around 29:30 you said that 93% of the survey takers were queer and then went on to talk about how large a portion of dream stans are queer, but 93% of the people who are dream stans and could access the survey are queer. the people who did the survey likely follow you on twitter and are more likely to be queer because they follow you, so 93%, while a large portion, doesn’t necessarily correlate to the portion of dream stans who are queer. it’s whatever but i just thought i’d share idk
Yeah I'd be interested in dropping the link to the poll in a place where it is mainly dream stans and less crossover, even just to get the self identity statistics
as a former HARDCORE dream stan this video is very healing for me. very rough period of my life and its good to hear many people have had a similar situation
As someone who's been limiting my time online so that I don't become wrapped up and weighed down by everything all the time, this was an extremely interesting video. Fanbases have the tendency to cave in on themselves and burrow into the ground, forming a strong, insular defense line and this is simply one of the best examples of it. I don't look down on people who like these safe spaces though; heaven knows I have my favorite content creators too. anyways, your comment about him having the vibe of a third chair trumpet made me lose it because it's so accurate
Go to expressvpn.com/ro and find out how you can get 3 months of ExpressVPN free!
slay
“I will always believe survivors” I see what you did there. Chefs kiss. Thank you.
Survivor not a victim of.
Hello,
Been watching videos of yours every once in a while. Love the content, mess with you heavy. When I reference you in conversation with friends, what pronouns should I use?
My bad checked your channel description :)
@lemonssssssss4 You can adjust playback speed (faster or slower) by clicking the gear in the top-right corner.
As a Latina who mainly watches Quackity, I can DEFINITELY attest to the racism in MCYT spaces. He got so much nastiness in his chat the first time he did a Spanish stream, and he's constantly portrayed in fanworks as either hyper-aggressive, hyper-sexualized, or nothing but comic relief. He had to call people out on stream once for spamming "El Chapo." It was... upsetting, to say the least.
PLEASE IM SO GLAD SOMEONE'S MENTIONED THIS-- it doesn't help either that quackity (unintentionally, which makes it even sadder) fed the flames with the whole "Mexican dream" bit and other jokes similar to that. I'm not saying it's his fault, as I and many other latinos make similar jokes, but when presented to an audience and space that is mostly white, it encourages them to start making the same jokes as well and they slowly turn from jokes laughing with you to laughing AT you.
Oh god i had no idea people were treatig Quackity like this, what the hell?? I watched some of his older content a long time ago and he seemed like the most wholesome guy ever, really funny too. He deserves so much better.
As a fellow Mexican, I also completely agree; hell, I made a WHOLE discussion and mini essay about the racism in communities like that. The way Spanish speakers and Quackity had to deal with people saying "I don't speak Taco Bell", people asking him for "las drogas", and hell, even the time he was with his friends back in Mexico and they were doing gritos and playing mariachi music, people were telling them to "stop barking" in chat.
There is just nastiness in almost every corner of the MCYT community if you search hard enough. This is honestly why I don't engage anymore.
@@aloofm33rkat28 you should seriously not use the internet anymore if you can’t take a joke, everybody gets made fun of and they literally always make equivalent British jokes, get a grip man you live in a social media bubble
Bro everything that happened with quackity in the fandom makes me genuinely sick
When you turn 18 you’re not automatically an adult. You don’t all of a sudden absorb a mature mentality when the clock strikes 12. These are still very young very impressionable people. I’m so sick of the “she may be in high school but she’s 18”. SHES IN HIGH SCHOOL.
Exactly!!! I get so sick when I see guys in their thirties date 18 year olds and claim its okay because they are "very mature" and an "adult". I unfortunately see it quite often.
Yeah! Like I'm only 20 going on 21 but I'm still super careful about the interactions I have online with 16-18-year-olds, even though we're relatively closer in age, I am the one with greater social power in that relationship, and I must be careful and responsible for the sake of both of us.
Gotta love how this mindset is never offered to the guys in any of these situations. "18M, 17F? GROOMER!!!" You people are hypocrites.
@@anitaremenarova6662 it literally is but the majority of people, specifically other men and boys, rather then helping these young boys either say, “oh if that was me i would’ve been grateful” or just str8 up getting mad at the double standard without helping or truly caring abt those young men at all. although can’t tell if your trolling or not atp
@@-miaumiau Not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that young guys that are legally adult are still just dumb children, not everyone is this groomer mastermind. This courtesy is however never extended to them, very misandrist of all of you.
I think one of the best fandom responses I’ve seen to grooming allegations (that I whole heartedly believe are true) was how the Cryaotic fandom (and people who had been essentially his coworkers, for lack of a better word) a) gathered evidence, made timelines of events, and boosted the voices of his victims, and b) dropped his ass and made their own discord server where the majority of the core fandom still hangs out. They took the community of like minded weirdos that had grown around him, and then removed him from it.
I loved Cryaotic when I was younger and would use his voice to make it easier to fall asleep but I stopped when I became an adult. Finding out about what he did made me so disgusted that I used to listen to him to fall asleep.
✨It's just that easy!✨ I wish more people would remember that you can appreciate the mood/aesthetic/community that springs up around a creator without thinking that means you have to chain your identity to the creator and give them your blind loyalty forever.
this is an excellent example! i used to be heavily attached to cryaotic when i was a tween but i was 18 when the story came out. he hadnt uploaded in a while and all the news going round, i couldnt imagine NOT ditching the creator and staying for the community. Cry was already 'sort of' niche for his content at the time so the fact that the community he brought together could collectively drop his ass and move on without much fuss, ykno thats p awesome. i wish it could be like that more often.
@@nailmasterjune In a very similar boat as yours. I watched him almost every day from ages 12 to 16, staying up for the weekend streams that ended at 6am, got the plushie and everyting, then fell off after graduating high school. I still feel sick to my stomach when I think about it.
can y'all point me to a good source for the whole story about cryaotic??? I used to watch him for a while at like 14 but I literally forgot about him until just now
Recently, a tiktoker I really enjoyed got exposed for groping minors while in cosplay. Never once was my reaction "Oh no, I'm losing my favorite creator," it was always, "Oh my god, I trusted this person, I can't believe they would ever do something like that." Not ONCE did I ever defend them or not believe the victims. Dream stans need to learn how to be empathetic and stop thinking about themselves
Pigeonscribble? The victim said they were a groomer too and used a mcdonalds toy as a sex toy
@@booish1846 Yeah them
@@booish1846 jesus that’s so terrible 😭
or dream cuz dream is the fly bussing around their empty heads
honestly, whether or not dream is innocent of recent allegations i truly do hope this current situation serves as a wake up call for his fanbase to not be so stuck on defending a guy they ultimately truly don’t know on a personal level…
yea it’s definitely put in prospective (for me) that i really done know him as much as it seemed i did. it made me take a massive step back and start taking things as if i wasnt a fan and had saw everything going on.
Thats what freaked me out about the Dream fandom, they were so intensely parasocial and it was weird that Dream kinda fed into that instead of going through with “I don’t know you, you’re not my friend boundary.”
I 100% believe he did it. He’s manipulating his young fan base and its wrong to just blame all the child fans for being para social when he literally uses textbook gaslighting and bullying tactics to isolate mentally ill chronically online children
Haven't watched the video yet but yes, very much yes
As someone who watches the community, the worst part is that it hasn’t and it probably won’t be. Rather, it seems to have been a rallying call for a lot of them, strengthening the “us against the rest of the world” mentality a lot of stans have with him. It’s frustrating to watch.
Wait...Billy Eilish stans harassed you over your body? Billy Eilish stans...whose idol has famously been subject to body-shaming internet harassment and suffered greatly for it? Pro-level cognitive dissonance on their part. So sorry that happened to you.
that’s exactly what i was thinking about! im not even a massive billie fan but she would Not approve that shit i know that much
Its hypocrisy not cognitve dissonance in this case, sorry for being an annoying nerd.
@@saumyavig8964 "annoying nerd" the word you're looking for is pedant. (/j ❤️)
Billy Eilish got body shamed??!? I haven't been a fan of hers but her body is pretty attractive? Like not to me but she doesn't look bad at all
@@Ervangelical People can be very petty.
I'm now realizing that once I'm a parent the "parasocial relationships talk" should be included amongst all the other "talks" parents give their kids. When I was younger I was repeatedly warned about talking to strangers online, but influencer culture really tricks younger audiences into thinking they fully know the influencer. It removes the idea that the influencer is still a stranger, not their friend.
No matter how often someone streams or posts or how happy and amazing they look online to thousands/millions of followers, you don't what happens behind closed doors and you do not have a real two-sided relationship with them. That could be so hurtful to a kid (or adult) who is lonely, but it is so important to know.
This is a really good point. It feels like the talk about internet safety stopped with the concept of predators posing as teens in chat rooms so they could lure kids.
for sure! now we need to make sure that when we warn our kids about how adults should and shouldn’t be interacting with them that includes online celebs and influencers. like we need to tell our kids that straight up it is inappropriate for a youtuber to add them on snapchat or compliment them on their appearance
it scares me that adults don’t know enough about the internet to be adequately protecting their kids. like the children at my middle school shouldn’t have been on omegle or messaging random old men on kik but no one’s parents even knew what those things were
As a lonely teenager I had a serious parasocial relationship with the Achievement Hunter team (mostly their let's plays crew).
And that was mostly a positive experience for me, but there were times it did negatively effect me, times where they made a misogynistic comment and then the comments exploded and it became so apparent that as a teenage girl I wasn't really welcome in that space. And with hindsight it's easy to see what could have happened to me had I ever gone deeper and tried to make contact. It *did* happen to some of the teenage girls who did that.
It probably helps to frame it as a kind of fictional realtionship. You like the persona they play, not the real person that are. Then it's no more dangerous than a parasocial relationship with Luke Skywalker or Katniss Everdeen.
@@kristen7687 do kids even still use Kik. I thought they'd all gone to telegram these days.
I’m not a dream stan, just a random social worker and wow is this a master class in challenging someone while maintaining unconditional positive regard.
I hope your thoughtfulness and empathy reaches them.
ikr? ro ramdin, the (anglophone) world’s most empathetic psychologist/data scientist. i’m so impressed by this video
What A thoughtful comment.
A good way to gauge how a person really is, is to check their reaction to something that can be _perceived_ as bad - in Dream's case, his victory screech being misconstrued as offensive to Indigenous Americans and his reaction to that misconstruction. Instead of explaining to people that he was referencing Spongebob Squarepants, to which most people's reaction would have been, "Oh, alright." and moving on, for his gut reaction to be a tirade about how he's part Indigenous (Which, hey, he could be - we don't know) tells a lot about his personal character. I mean, most people would just go, "That's just from Spongebob." if the same thing happened to them. I know I would.
THIS!! you just explained perfectly why i got such an icky feeling from his response to criticism
or (in my opinion slightly better and building on that idea) "it was a reference to spongebob, but I can understand why some folks might find it offensive and I will do my best to educate myself on those sorts of issues/avoid it in the future"
most people who suddenly say 'I'm part indigenous though!' as a defense for doing something that offends native Americans is usually sus, not even being able to pick a supposed tribe (Or country! America isn't the only place in the world with indigenous peoples) speaks to his character too imo
i find it odd how the whitest of white men somehow always suddenly claim to have "indigenous" in them the second theyre exposed for being racist... like ... alright kyle... 🧐
@@sora1498 I mean I do find it shocking just _how_ white he is. Like, I'm someone who's about as pale as a full bottle of Elmer's glue, and I think Dream has me beat on lack-of-pigment in our skin.
the fact that you were (justifiably) scared to speak out against a man who you weren't even the victim of is the exact problem with the fanbase. When people who can make a difference are attacked for calling out an irresponsible creator, a whole lot less people will speak out.
We live in a climate where people have to choose between personal safety or making sure creators don't get away with harmful actions. I hope any dream stan reading this realizes just how fucked up that is.
As someone who actually enjoyed his content back in 2020 - Dream has consistently demonstrated he has an atrocious temperament. He reacts extremely poorly and aggressively to any perceived slight, which emotionally stirs up his fans and makes them feel even more loyal to him as ‘defenders’.
Regardless of the truth to these allegations, Dream is an unstable and arrogant creator, making him a wildly irresponsible role model for a younger audience.
Makes sense.
How he cheated for clout and denied it. It shows who he is.
agree
his nasty temperament affects a lot of the things he does. whenever he felt attacked or salty about mcc (minecraft championships) he would on occasion start making jabs at whatever other streamer he thought had done something unfair on stream. he’s competitive to the point of toxicity. when i was still into mcyt, the mcc hype was huge. every once in a while, clips of him acting immature and butthurt would get reposted across social media, and even though i never watched dream and his main friend group, these clips brought down the vibe of everybody involved with mcc- fans, staff, and other streamers. its very minor but i just remembered it and think it’s an interesting point. it happened no more than a couple times. but those couple times, the clips i saw were so bitter, he made subtle jokes with his friends on stream in a way that suggested they had ragged on their less-popular minecraft youtubers for a hours in discord calls. so bitter. over a regular monthly minecraft tournament hes always gonna be in, because he has millions of subscribers. nuts
I absolutely noticed this too!! I was into the dream SMP in 2020, but i never really liked dream himself. He always struck me as weirdly defensive and tempermental.
facts
dream, from day one, has been cryaotic waiting to happen again. same mascot, same old twitter gimmick "cry was taken" vs. "dream was taken". quite literally step for fucking step, and as someone who personally had conversations with cryaotic? who had been a fan of him from 2011 on? it's been terrifying to watch all these kids start falling in love with someone who's just the same as that sack of shit. it's history repeating itself in the grossest, weirdest ways possible. i've been wanting to make my own video going over the shocking similarities, but due to how personal it feels to me i don't think i'm quite ready for that yet
its honestly uncanny how hes literally just doing the exact same thing
it fucks with my brain whenever I see fanart of Dream's character icon since that is literally! just! Cryaotic's! character! Like,, it's insane how much history repeats itself..
Eh from what I can see he just has bad temper on Twitter. Not unlike an average Twitter user. But yeah, with the commoditization of entertainment, stans are gonna stan. Perhaps back then people would only stand superstars that uphold a public image, but since rocknroll and serial killers it's been gloves off for long now.
@@kugelblitzingularity304 the allegation against him are the same as cry. it's not about a bad temper on twitter. which, by the way, is putting his past racist, homophobic and transphobic comments wayyyy too lightly. if the allegations are true, he's just the same if not worse than cry due to those "just twitter moments" as you worded it
I think it's a little immature to assume 2 people are the same based on an avatar and twitter handle that are both extremely generic. I don't like Dream either but him and Cry are nothing alike.
As a former dream stan I found that a lot of anti-semitism (I am not Jewish so I can’t claim to understand antisemitism) and white supremacy was rampant throughout the community the main reason I left. I remember constantly feeling bad for being a POC and when interacting with other POC individuals they too also pushed down their identities and idolising individuals because they were white. People talking about how only white people were attractive just a lot of insecurity and internalised racism. There was always this push of being progressive and POC friendly but again it was all performative no one actually cared and actually caring was defined as retweeting and liking a thread. I fell into a really deep self hatred hole because of how much I felt ashamed of my own ethnicity.
I'm Jewish and used to watch dream. you're absolutely right about the antisemitism and white supremacy in the community
I think the fact that it is a comfort/safe place for people (a lot of them white) is a double edged sword in this regard. It doesn’t foster the environment for the hard (and oftentimes political) conversations around modern racism.
It’s a hard pill to swallow. Being the ignorant and complaint majority of an oppressive system. Especially when many seeking out comfort due to struggles associated similarly unjust systems of a different cause.
mind you to this day theres still no woc in the dsmp
@@xEEEa7iu231 tinakitten and shes the only one :(
It's always been so weird to me how that community treats Quackity
That "this hurts real victims" comment he made is... Ugh.
Right after the first time my ex abuser SAed me, his sister saw me crying and I briefly explained to her what he did. He walked in on this and got upset with me for telling her about it. Eventually, the conversation turned into him telling me she had supposedly been through CSA, and that it was messed up for me to say that to her when she was the one who had "really" been ab*sed. I was only 16, so his manipulation worked and I ended up apologizing to him.
Dream's reaction to these allegations is uncomfortably familiar.
Hugs 💚
im so sorry this happened to you, sending you love
Awh I'm so sorry that happened to you ☹️
I'm sorry this happened you and I hope your doing well now.
the same thing happened to me where my abuser gaslighted me and I alway apologized when I would get upset bc he SAed me. I didn't really know what was happening and only knew it made me feel awful. Manipulation is awful :/
ro's braver than any us marine, i would rather DIE than take on dream stans
for a thick second I though you were talking about Joe Rogan. Don't ask how... I don't know
Does he still have stans? I saw a bunch of kids on tik tok denouncing him after the face reveal💀
aren't these basically the same thing?
fr shout out ro
@@KickedBackL on twitter his stans were mostly just acting like he looks like a greek god or something
As a former lonely teen who used the internet as comfort, I appreciatte the compassionate tone of this video and the questions you raise.
We aren't taught that we can love something and still be critical of it, still see the less-good or bad parts and try to correct them.
Now, more than ever, it's important that we are kind to one another and learn to think with nuance about our world and all of the intersections in it.
Thank you so much Rose, you may be the woman that convinces me to try a really dramatic eyeliner
lovely comment 👏
(try the eyeliner--it might be fun!!)
@@yourbellboy thank you so much! You are so sweet ❤️
(I'm trying to find an excuse/occasion)
I was one of the people who filled out the survey. I'm an ex dream stan and I'm really glad you made this video. When I was a stan, the community believed victims. We were open to criticism. But only on a surface level. Most of us couldn't bare being without the content from our cc's, and would move on as soon as we could. But even then, looking at what the minecraft youtuber community is now is just a reflection of how unhealthy I was, but even worse. They have created a hostile, toxic environment full of hypocrites. Back in the day, dream stans used to attack and body shames tons of other creators, but it's only bad now when it happens to Dream, for example. That's just an example of how terrible it is. This video has amazing points about how no one should be afraid to post (as his stans would call it) "dream neg" or even just a video about dream. The community would literally run stans off the platforms if you joked about him CHEATING (in mc, which... he did). Great vid Ro!
Since this is gaining traction I thought I’d write a little more about my personal experiences. I made a lot of friends, and as Ro said the community is a really accepting place for queer people such as myself and during this time I finally labelled my sexuality and gender id. However, I was so so unhealthy. It was during the pandemic and I was barely doing school because I was spending 24/7 devoted to dream and co. I had 4k+ followers on twitter for being a stan. I thought that my attachment was normal. I would donate to them because it meant they would basically acknowledge you. I’m so grateful I left, I was miserable but convinced myself I was fine. The community is a huge echo chamber that validates and glorifies unhealthy behaviors like mine. Just thought I’d share my experience for the hell of it :) Sorry if this is a huge ramble
There is no cheating scandal in ba sing se....
@@aff77141
Kid you not when it came out that he cheated people made almost no noise about it in the community… people did not care. Which, I mean I don’t really care that he cheated still it’s more all of the deflection and disproving he tried to do and leading his fans on with trust in him only to end up a cheater 😭
neg?
@@mikafizz1022
short for negative. people would ask you tag anything discussing or in itself negative about dream as “dream neg.”
i will be honest ive been in the fandom since late 2020 i wasnt really following lore at the time and i didnt really donate to streams or anything but im still in it. i do agree theres a toxic side to the fandom but i dont think its much to the fault of dream... i actually find myself feeling bad for him im around his age and i cant imagine having a fandom that big and no real way to control it. no commonality between these people other than you. hes not a perfect person but i do empathize with that part of his situation a lot.
only 30 minutes into the video but the manatreed situation was NOT proven false. this is when i left the fandom. there is ONE thread "disproving" the allegations that people point to when talking about manatreed situation and none of it holds up. whether all of the manatreed leaks were true or not, it's definitive that dream housed an abuser
YES!! Thank you
@victoria p lol there are publicly available documents showing that a convicted criminal was living at dream's address, whether that was manatreed or not. but sure let's ignore important info bc they're from leaks.
according to them, they (manatreed, dream, and sapnap) have known each other for YEARS. pre-blow up. we can't assume he didn't know because obviously they were close. we also can't assume dream wouldn't give him a platform despite being a literal abuser because that was the entire point of being faceless, so people wouldn't find out.
stop defending dream by saying "he wouldn't do this" or he "wouldn't do that" because you don't know him. you don't know what he would and wouldn't do. with his fans defending everything he does, I think he Would do just about anything now, knowing that he could get away with it.
@victoria p spoken like a true dream defender. have a good day
@victoria p i don't know "why" dream would do something. i don't know how close dream is with his friends. I'm not choosing to comment on what he would hypothetically do or not do based on what we "know" about him. I'm choosing to comment on his actions and the proof of his involvement
That was the one dsmp drama I didn't exactly care about, mind catching me up to speed?
I hope this video goes over well, you don't deserve any harrassment especially with how you always handle subjects with a lot of empathy and care
Agree fully.
It is genuinely mental to me that Ro is only 21. Wtf?? I wish I had had half the wisdom+ability to articulate my thoughts, holy cow. You are doing so great, hon - always cheering you on :D
Ro's out there out-comedianing and out-insighting 30+ y.o. people and retaining my attention like a Pokemon game, it's marvelous to behold a master wordsmith.
your comment is sweet and i belive you have 100% good intentions but you should know "hon" is a slur trans women call other trans women who don't pass well, just so you know in the future. I would use Hun instead :)
I’m an ex mcyt fan, Aphmau specifically. I remember slowly fading away from her content as it started to change and then finding out what she had done. The idealization of predatory relationships, the subtle racism, the queer baiting, and more. I’m so embarrassed to tell anyone I used to be obsessed with her content because I know how people react.
I was a kid and she was the only content creator I felt cared for by (being a young, queer, nd, traumatized kid). I was enamoured by the fantasy aspects, and the community; and I can only have empathy for dsmp fans. I know what it’s like to be so attached to a character a creator puts on to the point of obsession.
I want those who are afraid of leaving the fandom to know that you aren’t at fault for attaching yourself to a creator, but it’s your responsibility to realize that these communities don’t actually care for you and your friends.
Damn kinda feel like the reason why i drop her is stupid now i drop her cause literally she didn't choose neither luarence and garroth in her old minecraft diaries
@@AnneYups God I remember that! Her picking Aaron was such a let down! Laurence and Garroth were so much better then Aaron
@@goblinguy3103 she had two perfectly good guys and now she just fallen in love with a strange emo dude
wait what did aphmau do????
@@SaphInfection Aaron was three years older then Aph when they were in high school. She was a freshmen and he was a Senior, which is super illegal. (She was 15, he was 18)
In regards to Queer baiting, there are SO many instances where two guys are put in a queer situation (Think Dante and Aaron kissing on accident, Laurence and Garroth kissing on accident) and then you add in Laurence and Garroth literally living together, being “best friends” and “roommates” (queer calling cards), it’s clear that Jessica only did this to entice a queer audience even though they never actually got together. Plus the only main MLM (man loving man) relationship in Mystreet being with a man just named “Guy” and his unknown boyfriend.
Also, the ONLY queer woman we really see (Katelyn) ending up in a straight relationship. Not saying bi women have to get with other women, but she is quite literally the only not-straight woman I can think of from mystreet and that’s an issue.
There’s also the entire KC being based on super racist Japanese stereotypes (think the “kawaii” school girl”), the normalization of assaulting men (the Pizza Delivery Guy from S1, and just lazy writing (like Travis being Aphs bff in high school but suddenly not remembering her in mystreet)
As someone who was a fan of Dream until the allegations came out, I think the reaction has been very interesting. On tumblr, Dream had a sizeable following though nowhere near the size of his twitter following. I generally found them to be much smarter than his twitter fandom and they were willing as all hell to call him out when he was doing stupid shit. They were defensive, especially of Dream, but I knew that for many of them it came from having been harassed on twitter for being in the fandom and being a fan of Dream. They tended to settle things a lot more peacefully and without the direct contact with Dream and such a large group of both fans and antis, doxxing and death threats were a lot lower.
When the allegations came out, people were split between believing the victim or waiting for Dream to respond, but once Dream did respond, the entirety of his fanbase on tumblr collapsed. Hundreds or thousands of people, names I could recognize with ease, deactivated. Those that didn't either moved blogs and/or vowed to stop interacting with his content. I saw many people who stepped back and took it as a wake up call on how they were interacting with him before.
There's a small portion of people who remain as his fans but they've been shunned by the greater mcytblr community. People who weren't even direct fans of his left tumblr because they couldn't stay in a community where there were people who supported him.
(Edit: It's been about three weeks since I made this comment and unfortunately a large number of people have returned to being his fans. It's disgusting. It's not the same size as before and they are still shunned by the community at large, but they exist. I'll blame some of it on people moving from twitter to tumblr, but a lot of people are trying to move on like nothing happened and support him as if it had been nothing but silly anti vs stan drama. They're very hostile to anyone who says anything negative about Dream.)
Personally, I knew I was never going to interact with his content again because of his response and treatment of the situation, but what really cemented my newfound hatred of him was that his first public appearance after his twitlonger was a video featuring the father of another youtuber who'd recently passed away to cancer. I don't think he used that stream as 'damage control' on purpose because I believe it was just the best timing for the family, but since that stream, people haven't been talking about the allegations. They're talking about the stream itself. It created a bridge between the allegations and his normal content and since then he's been posting and tweeting like nothing happened.
I had always been a bigger fan of the streamer who passed, he was and still is who I primarily post about. I genuinely don't think I'd ever felt angrier than the hour or so I was dealing with a blinding rage over what Dream was doing, because everyone else on tumblr knew just as well that no matter his intentions with this stream, it would let Dream get away with not talking about the allegations.
Since then I took another look at the allegations. No matter how true the sexual relationship is, Dream himself confirmed that the Instagram messages are real, which prove that he was privately messaging a fan of his who was emotionally invested in his content (to the point where she said in their first interaction that it gave her another reason to keep living) things that were incredibly innapropriate. It makes me sick to see him nominated in the streamys. I've contacted them about it but I seriously doubt they'll be getting back to me or the many other people who are disturbed to see a man who shouldn't have a platform because of his misuse of it winning awards for his content.
Dream stans are still a thing on twitter. The majority of mcytblr is disgusted by them, the only ones that aren't being the remaining Dream stans. I think it might have something to do with the majority of Dream stans on tumblr having been 19 - 27, whereas on twitter they're significantly younger, around 13 - 18 usually.
DSMPblr has been a supportive community since we're all in the same boat. It's actually where I found this video. We're just all angry and sad about the whole thing, and it hurts to see not only Dream and his fans ignore the situation, but other streamers. Large drama youtubers and streamers haven't talked about it at all. They're ignoring it, probably because it's Dream. I've seen people return to being a fan of his after only a week or two since they feel they were just being too dramatic, that it wasn't really that bad and it just felt that way because people were throwing around words like 'groomer' and 'predatory'. It feels so invalidating because it makes me feel like I'm wrong for being upset about his incredibly inappropriate actions.
It's hard not to be upset about this. I had been subbed to him since 2019 and seeing what he did as well as his remaining fanbase move on like nothing happened just makes me so sad. I watched the Dream SMP because I loved the streamers and the story of the server, but it's incredibly hard to find comfort in a story I have loved for almost three years when one of the central characters is played by a man I want nothing to do with. And I don't know what to do if the other streamers on the server don't speak about this sooner or later.
Also, if I can add one critism of this video: the link in the description is a terrible one. The majority of those things are years old and have been adressed by the streamers and youtubers already. The thread is notorious in the fandom for being littered with misinformation and things that have been settled a long time ago.
Edit: The Dream SMP had a volume/season one finale. A large number of fans agreed to not watch the streams live in order to try to tank Tommy's views to hopefully have him notice that his content with Dream performs worse than usual. While I have no idea if he noticed, there was a drop. However, what we've learned about this finale is so telling. Dream planned a lot of it after not responding to messages for weeks, which to me only seems like his using the lore of the server as damage control (which he had done before). Dream also was fairly insistent on what must happen and one of the streamers involved said he felt like a yes man and didn't have much sway on what happened despite already having an ending in mind for his character.
The finale was rushed and the final stream of the 4 stream finale featured an abuse victim learning to understand their abuser's POV, which can be done well, expect that upon that happening, the abuser softened and became a nicer person. I do not have to get into why a narrative that abusers will be nice if their victims are nice to them is a bad one. The server then blew up and everyone had their memories wiped, creating a fresh slate for the content creators to play on the server without the past lore, or their characters. The abuser and victim became friends instantly without their memories as well.
While I'm sure the other content creators had influence into what happened and are not free of criticism for this ending, I will say that I believe Dream, in his effort to quickly create damage control content, ruined the ending of a 2-3 year story.
Another edit: More streamers on the SMP have come out saying that Dream has been ignoring or talking over their lore plans and they feel tied to his server. If anything, that just proves how little he cares about it and that he's just using it for damage control.
Hey, glad to see someone else from DSMPblr here! Tumblr has always been more chill and mature about controversial topics, which is why I like it lol. Anyways, I totally feel you, and as a side note, it’s very interesting to see that most ccs except the dteam or whatever haven’t really interacted with him a lot since all the allegations happened; a lot of people have mentioned that they might not do anything story-related for “awhile” so it’s interesting to think about the logistics of this all going down and if stuff is getting postponed as a result (as it should, of course.) the response of other ccs is a whole other bomb waiting to happen. Anyways, hope you have a lovely day!
Hey thanks for spelling out how mcytblr has reacted. As a person who doesn't use Twitter and interacts with the fandom entirely through tumblr its nice to see someone give our perspective. :D
Tumblr is where all the sane people remain. Underrated site, just the way we like it.
@@kombuchas4684 _Don’t say that publicly, you’re going to make people see the cool aspects and actually want to go there instead of twitter and you know what happened to Twitt-_ anyways, Tumblr is dead, overrated, and is an libtoid SJW cesspool where everything is called racist, and there is absolutely nothing to value from it. Please don’t go there.
god, i've been in totally the same boat, been here on tumblr since early-mid 2020 good lord, on ground zero for pretty much every controversy listed in the video. glad someone else was pissed about the stream with techno's dad, i think that cemented my leaving too.
the tumblr fandom, including mainstream mcytblr and also critblr (which has evolved a lot over time actually, that's basically what i've been following since june/july 2020), is a totally different beast than the twt fandom. it'd be interesting if someone were to do a deep dive into that side of the fandom, especially since a lot of people have left their blogs up but haven't deactivated like the first round of crtiblr blogs (RIP wormweeb, dreamwasfound/georgesoot, colournotfound. miss lurking you guys). i also feel like people who haven't really been in deep in the fandom could probably find a lot better information on the controversies there, though i guess it's not as easy to search as just going through a twt thread since people don't often main tag.
As someone whos in the Minecraft community (not a stan) thank you for talking about this. I've been trying to help the victims and stop the onslaught of hate towards them. Dream has always seemed off to me, with how he responds to anything negative towards him. I wouldn't label Dream as the figure head of the Minecraft community when there are so many other creators. Thank you so so much for calling him out, I was surprised to see so much silence.
SO TRUE!! minecraft is one of my special interests so my brain will literally not let me leave the community 💀💀 i had a huge hyperfixation on the DSMP but never really liked dream himself, just his character and acting skills. i liked his dynamic with his friends and would watch animatics, but thats about it- the way he responded to criticism left a bad taste in my mouth, and then when the KKK and nazi edits came out… yikes. i don’t have twitter (or really any social media) so i only learned about the allegations from this video and im honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they were true because of the way he interacts with his fanbase. sorry for this big long paragraph lol, im just really passionate about minecraft and its community ^^;
@@ARACHNIDPARTY I feel the exact same way and you have nothing to be sorry for its nice to hear how people feel about this because it helps me explain my own perspective. As an ex fan of his he definitely created that problem for himself. I even remember the text line he opened up for his fans its crazy looking back at it now
@@rhyssocialawkwardness8170 remembering the text line was like the mental equivalent of a castration with no anesthesiacs 💀💀💀 glad my long reply wasn’t annoying HWHAHAH
@@rhyssocialawkwardness8170 oh my god the text line, that was so fuckin weird. That and the usb stick thing.... i guess its kinda a thing for some celebs to do a text line or w/e but it just seems like such a wildly unpleasant idea.
insane. there's so much silence I didn't even know this shit was HAPPENING, that's how it goes when you have someone who so blatantly refuses to ever acknowledge he or his fans have done anything wrong, and then GETS AWAY WITH IT. Something like this was bound to happen
I feel like it should be noted that a massive creator interacting on a 1-on-1 private impermanant space like snapchat with a fan who met them through being a fan of their work is an inappropriate interaction. There is a hard power dynamic built into that relationship, even if they were both adults. I'd compare it to an inappropriate relationship between a college professor and a student- even though both parties are adults, there is an inherent difference in power between the teacher and the student, even if that person is no longer a student of the professor.
yep there is genuinely just no reason someone would do it unless they want to leverage the admiration the fan feels for them to get something that they would not be comfortable asking for in any other open space. there are too many other ways to interact with your fans if your intentions are above-board that are both more convenient and dont immediately seem sketchy
Well said
exactly, it really reminds me of the callmecarson situation in that aspect (obviously, the details are different, but each controversy was based on the power dynamic), fascinating how such a similar situation has such different responses, and a part of me feels like it has something to do with their appearance (or at least in dream's case, perceived fan appearance). because dream is twitter's golden boy it's like the opposite side of the same coin
@Nightingale V I think the reason why Carson got booted is because the people who exposed him were his former content creator friends (aka Lunch Club, Goop, and for a short period Fart Club). Note the fact that since this allegation came to light, absolutely nobody close to Dream has left him like Lunch Club did to Carson. A massive part of what informs public opinion on these types of situations is how the people closest to the accused react. For example, during the recent situation with Mizkif on Twitch, his streamer org (OTK) had him temporarily removed while they investigated what exactly happened. If OTK had stated the opposite and defended Miz's character, then public opinion would likely be swayed in favor of Mizkif.
I do wonder now about if a fan/ celebrity relationship would ever be a fair dynamic. That’s a really interesting thing to think about, like does that make a celebrity who chooses to date a fan weird 100% of the time.
I just wanna say, the sea shots around the 50 minute mark are gorgeous. I know you'll get comments about the content but I want you to know we're seeing your cinematic growth too! the shots of the cottages while talking about belonging, they were beautiful. you're doing amazing sweetie x
i particularly liked the neon open sign while saying "i believe people can learn and listen"
this^
The shots are so beautiful.
I looked away for a bit and I thought I was suddenly watching the movie Nope
So here to witness your growth 💗✊
i was a fan of dream/dreamsmp in for about a year (late 2020 - 2021) and what ultimately drove me away was the way he interacted with his fans, basically just repeatedly showing a lack of understanding of fandom and an inability to set and maintain important boundaries. he handled minor criticism poorly and did little to control or prevent the response of his fans. it disturbs me how willing his fans are to wave away the part of the allegations he's admitted to because dream is showing, yet again, that he does not understand the power and influence he has and that is dangerous. amazing video, you speak with an incredible amount of compassion for people, even after admitting you're afraid.
People may wonder: but how do you set healthy boundaries?
The textbook enforcer of boundaries in this side of the fanbase is Philza.
There's no better learn school for it than looking at how Phil & his Twitch chat interact with one another & see a healthier dynamic
This is the exact same reason I left. I had been familiar with his content on RUclips and out of curiosity I watched part of a Twitch stream. The way he was talking to his fans just made me so uncomfortable...
yeah, as a current hermitcraft/empires fan and former dream smp fan, a lot of dream fans can be unnecessarily toxic. the hermitcraft/empires smp fandom is imo a lot more safe and accepting especially for people of color and disabled people, and the ccs are much better at interacting with their fanbase and even the hardcore stans (which are few and far between) aren’t half as intense as dream stans. i can’t speak to other people’s experiences but i was only in the dream smp fandom for a little while before i discovered that dream stans exist, and that very quickly made me officially decide that that fandom wasn’t going to be a safe space for me. i was far removed from the dream smp fandom when the allegations came out, so it didn’t really affect me much. however i did see a couple of my tumblr mutuals who were somewhat engaged in the dream smp, and who belived the victim, and they got it pretty hard from the toxic dream stans. a lot of them decided to leave the dream smp fandom permanently, and one even disavowed mcyt altogether. i haven’t said anything about it on tumblr except reblog a few posts because i don’t want the dream fans to attack me. i know how the dream stans can be, and you’re really brave for talking about it ro.
I can second the experience with hermitcraft, I wrote a long comment and had to restart but creators like xisuma, falsesymmetry mumbojumbo and others all struck me as very responsible and emotionally mature, at least when I was watching minecraft content- and trust me, that might genuinely equate to an entire year of my life in watchtime over like a 7 year period and I’m probably not the only one. Mindcrack was another one, kurtjmac, aureylian, omgchad, ethoslab, zisteau etc. Point is that although there is a lot of mind-numbing, hyperactive minecraft content on youtube that’s rather shamelessly exploiting the short attention spans of kids and certain symptoms of neurodivergence, profiting on v-bucks scam equivalents, creators being creepy or straight up grooming, etc, at least from my experience there were always very open, accepting, and mature communities that usually felt comfortable for me, although I admit most communities would be for someone like me. I think regardless of whether he deserves the title or not, Dream seems to be very much a figurehead of that hyperactive groomer interpretation of mcyt, even if someone like me (who was really turned off by that side of youtube and even moreso now that I’m older) doesn’t believe that that image fairly describes the majority of minecraft youtube creators.
i am also more of an empires/hermitcraft fan, and i don't really watch dream smp content (or content from most people on the server). it always kind of rubbed me the wrong way. i prefer the nostalgic and far more accepting communities of minecraft, and there are so many creators that are really great. sometimes it sucks though when minecraft creators you like still support/interact with dream and others (like actively try to, i get your in the same area if a creator happens to be in a large vc and hes in thats kinda whatever to me). anyways dream stans are so scary, and i hate the way he doesn't even make an attempt to stop them.
also that thread ro linked has really changed my view on a lot of creators i thought were alright.
I actually recently got into hermitcraft and empires after watching the life series and I would have to say it does seem better. For one, a lot of the creators are older and more established in their careers which I think helps them deal with the negative effects of having a fandom, and although I think there are negative aspects to the community they seem to have an overall positive relationship with it. Also, any problematic things they've said or done seem to be things from the past that have been apologized for and views that have changed, but even then the ones that have these issues at all seem to be few and far between. I do think it sucks that the dsmp has gotten so big that creators who have been around for far longer have had their careers and fanbases defined by others based on something out of their control, but the popularity of the dsmp has also helped overall mcyt so it's probably mostly positive for them. I think there are still problems with this kind of parasocial behavior in all of these communities, but I don't think that's necessarily the creators faults and may in part come from this sort of new culture we've had with mcyt and overall fandom for a while now, as well as just like. Human nature which we can't really change but we can try to recognize and manage
I do have empathy for certain dream stans though. I get very strong hyper fixations and though I try to engage in a more healthy way, seeing criticism of something I love can hurt and make me feel like I'm bad for ever loving it... And that's talking about things like seeing criticism for Steven Universe and the Magnus Archives, something where I recognize that I really shouldn't feel like that. So I can't imagine how something like this feels for some of these people
An interesting note about this! I feel like the reactions people had in the DSMP fandom to the allegations had a lot to do with what specific cc’s you follow. I was and am a kinda casual fan when compared to some people in the fandom, but I was still pretty active when everything went down, so I saw some shit.
But, the thing is, I’m an SBI fan. I didn’t really interact with many Dream Stan’s.
I saw lots of people disown him, I saw a lot of people saying to believe the victims, and even a lot of people removing his character from fics and comics or just said they’d always portray him as a villian. Lots of “if you support Dream, get out” kinda shit.
This doesn’t really add anything, but I hope it might bring you a little more peace regarding the fandoms reaction to this specific event; A lot of people were great about it. That being said, I’m very sorry that there were so many assholes that fucked with you; it may be a hollow apology, but it’s a problem you should never have had to deal with. Shits fucked.I hope that you’re happy over in hermitcraft/empires :) I hope it’s less stressful, has less racists, and that you have fun! The fanart looks sick ;)
I remember when Taylor Swift got an 8/10 rating on Pitchfork and her fans doxxed the journalist involved. I wish Taylor would've spoken out against this - even if she didn't ask them to, it happened on multiple occassions and she should've condemned that behaviour. Her fans also harassed ex-boyfriends and sent them death threats without a peep from her. I guess the moral of the story is that fans will act like you are a heretic for any criticism against their gods.
her fans definitely engage in cultish behavior and she knows it but would never say anything or try to stop it, she seems to like it that way, considering her fans have "helped" her clean her name when rightfully accused of something
Taylor is against bullying only when it affects her. Her fandom bullies people (her exes, critics) and she never stops it even when her fans overstep their boundaries
@@lhvy5066 accused of what? (genuine)
@@Anonymous-bi5pv I'm totally guessing here but I would assume @ ihvy might be referring to "accusations" (there's a lot of documented proof but we'll put it in quotes) of Taylor dating a 17-18 year old when she was in her early 20s and going as far as to buy a house next to his after they'd only been together for a couple months. He was a Kennedy and she'd also been publicly obsessing over the family for at least a year before she started dating him, and at the time he was her only conceivable "in" to the family which had clearly been a long term goal of hers. It was...... very fucking bizarre to say the least, whether or not he was 18 when they started dating she's like 5 years older than him, which is a large age gap when you're in your late teens-early 20s. Fans have deflected this behavior by claiming that Taylor was just "overcorrecting" after being in relationships with much much older men as a 19-20 year old. And to be fair John Mayer was very weird/focused on her while she was still a teenager/barely legal before they started dating, and I don't want to deligitimize her experiences in that situation because it was not appropriate or okay in the slightest, but that doesn't like.... magically make her behavior better, either. Both can be fucked up at the same time. And if OP wasn't referring to that, then several of her 1989 era music videos were accused of being racist (specifically anti-black, in the form of cultural appropriation and glamorizing the colonial period) which was highly documented and people have discussed it better than me. Her fans also have excuses for those videos because of course. And if it isn't THAT I don't even know, maybe the private plane thing lmao
I'm a swift fan for her music and... Yeah. This is 100% true. Obviously there's been false accusations (kimye 💀 or Demi being like 'Tay doesn't support Britney' when Taylor had actually donated money to her legal team for years) and her name did get dragged through the mud in 2016 but that doesn't mean that there's no room for legitimate criticism.
Tbf lots of swifties I followed on twitter condemned the private jet use, and the fans doing the dogpiling are in the 0.1%, but its still unacceptable.
Edit: Also Taylor seems to have withdrawn from all socials apart from tiktok, but she should still be aware of the behaviour of her twitter fans, cos ignoring what they do in your name isn't a strategy
I’m glad you made this video even if it might cause backlash from Dream fans. I think this is something important to talk about. We can’t just blindly defend creators, and it’s really upsetting that people build parasocial relationships with their fans that are so strong that they could do almost anything and “get away with it” so to speak. I think it’s important we talk about why that’s wrong.
i was formerly a huge fan of dream because i had a hyperfixation on the dream smp (i have autism and adhd so it was intense lol!), and i’ll be honest, i was a little scared to watch this video. however, i love your content, and i have seen that you have always been a compassionate person who considers everyone’s feelings, so i decided to watch it. and i’m so glad i did.
you were incredibly right when you spoke about how this type of fear of criticism is very harmful and isolating for a fandom. i was an extremely insecure person struggling with my sexuality and non-binary gender identity, and i also have autism, adhd, and anxiety, so dream’s community felt very safe for me. i’m also white, which likely made me feel even safer because i didn’t notice as much how dream and his fanbase pivot from racial issues so quickly compared to lgbtqia+ and neurodivergent issues. nevertheless, dream and his fanbase was a safe space for me that i wasn’t willing to give up, and dream smp content made me so happy because i was hyperfixated on it. all of this made me feel like any criticism of my favorite creators was an attack on me and that safe space that i had cultivated for myself.
thank you for making your video both critical and sympathetic at the same time. i know that some of his fans will see this as an attack, but i didn’t see it as that at all. and that’s saying something because i’m very sensitive when it comes to my interests and former interests since i have always been interested in things that are considered lame or weird, and have faced bullying as a result. you were so understanding, and i appreciate that so much as someone genuinely trying to learn how to avoid becoming unhealthily attached to something again. i don’t know if i can control my obsessiveness over things i’m hyperfixated on, but i won’t know for sure if i don’t try!
listening to what you had to say was so valuable to me. as a fan, i tried to ignore criticism of dream, again because i felt it was an attack on me rather than him. this was very harmful, as i usually had no idea why people didn’t like him or were upset with him. this made me susceptible to the thing that dream likes to do, which is to just say “love you guys” after a half-assed apology or after a serious allegation. now that i am out of dream’s fandom, i can see how harmful that parasocial relationship was. i used to joke about the parasocial relationship thing. but it is a serious thing when it comes to him being forgiven so easily and believed so easily when he gives a shitty apology or belittles potential victims time and time again. dream has a habit of lashing out at everyone who just wants him to see the damage of certain things that he does, and it’s clear that most of his apologies don’t come from a place of understanding what he actually did wrong or what hurt he caused (usually to minorities).
anyways, this was really long but i just wanted to thank you ro. i know the stressfulness of fearing the dream fandom’s wrath. thank you for making this video because now i concretely know that i don’t want to support dream in any way anymore because his behavior towards his fanbase is not healthy for the fans. love you ro, stay safe!
I just want you to know no one will shame you for liking or watching, he made the choices he did and made space for you to open up to new creators. I've seen many creators go bad and it's not the viewers fault until they needlessly defend them. Hope it gets better for you, and don't blame yourself.
I will never forget when I saw clips of Dream going on a stream and saying doxxing “wasn’t that bad”. As if it’s not an actual crime. As if it’s not still actively putting someone’s life in danger. Tbh if this isn’t him trying to send hints of encouragement to doxx, idk what is
Is dream’s dox out there?
Dream said that out of personal experience, and he said doxxing is bad IN THE SAME STREAM. He said it’s rare to have people come over to your house if you get doxxed.
@@Arandoman616 i get that, but he's minimizing the issue, still.
I hate being trans on the internet, and on RUclips. It's the one thing stopping me from making a channel about living the low-tech life.
You inspire me every day.
I’m not trans but I hope you’re able to do it if it’s a passion of yours. You deserve to start a RUclips channel just like the rest of us! I’ve had these thoughts just because I’m not conventionally attractive (not comparing the two). The internet can be such a brutal place.
Make it. The people who are plain hateful are the ones who should feel scared and ashamed because their souls are currently garbage.
Go for it; you have my sub!
Do it!
There are also communities you can join for support if you still wanna do it
oh man, this made me think a LOT about the ways that autistic people specifically are mocked for the way we discuss our interests. I've been thinking abt it recently -- being someone with incredibly strong interests in things, particularly ones deemed "immature", means you're ostracized and thought of as weird. obv special interests can be around someone really nasty, or can consume your life to a point that's no longer healthy, but even healthy and normative ways that autistic ppl express our affection for something is demeaned by greater society. even other neurodivergent ppl tend to turn on autistic ppl when we discuss the ways we are specifically looked down upon. also, for whatever reason, a lot of fringe interests (being a furry comes to mind) are dominated by autistic ppl, and as a result a lot of the bullying and abuse they face intersects w/ autistm-specific ableism. I haven't thought abt this enough to make it a greater point but it's something that I'm so regularly upset about.
It can be very hard for autistic people to hear criticisms of things we like, b/c those interests are so core to ourselves and b/c we're oftentimes mocked for them, so I particularly understand why someone might want to avoid criticisms of things they like. hell, I have special interests in shows I know are bad writing-wise (and have some uhhhhh Problematic episodes) and seeing ppl talk about why they don't particularly like it hurts.
I hope all the autistic Dream stans can get more healthy, less parasocial special interests. I feel very lucky as someone on the spectrum that, while I've had some weird phases, I've been able to mostly stay in the realm of what I consider healthy interests for myself. obv the "getting personally offended when someone says they don't like a pretty mid-tier show" is nnnot great, but y'know, I'm working on it. Also please find someone to stan who doesn't hate us and minimize our experiences, that would be great
Mine is Antartica, the time I jad an argument about it was my family being sure it was not a continent. And talking like I was dumb because they're 5 to think that and I'm alone.
If you made a compilation of all the rapid diss segments you've ever done, that would be a killer video. Those are so funny.
You know the basic life tips we're all taught as children, stuff like stranger danger, don't do drugs etc? We should add "celebrities are not your friends" to that.
honestly!! especially now, since literally anyone can become a celebrity online
Ludwig had the right idea all along
I really empathize with these fans because I used to have a huge parasocial relationship with One Direction back in the day - I was deeply unhappy with my environment in real life so I felt I had to form an attachment with five random dudes. I noticed focusing on what made me happy in real life and finding fulfillment there brought me out of this submersion in stan culture. However, it took me a lot of time to get there, and I noticed I'll slip back into parasocial attachment if I'm particularly struggling mentally - fortunately, it's at most a tiny fraction of what it used to be.
Thank you for another beautifully empathetic and nuanced video Ro :)
Well done on getting out of that mentality, I can imagine how hoard it must have been when your happiness is dependent on celebrities, especially when the fan base is quite dependent on each other.
I will say that I'd love to see a dissection on the whole fan x 1D parasocial relationship and the nuances with how 1D were hated cos the forefront of their fan base were mostly teenage girls as well as how it came to be like that.
ro, you are the most eloquent, beautiful and audacious (in a good way obv) creator on youtube. i love watching your videos and hearing your takes. standing up against dream stans can’t be easy. you go, girl 🖤
Yes!! Love when I see that Ro video notification 🫶
This is such a sweet comment. You seem like a really lovely person, and furthermore, I agree fully. ❤
I agree! every single video entertains and impresses me. one of my favorite RUclipsrs ever
As a former dream fan who saw people get the shit bullied out of them for it (like my class had an entire ongoing joke mocking dream fans outright knowing there were people in the class who were invested in the DSMP) thank you for approaching this topic with kindness and care while still being firm. It’s really refreshing to see people not mock others and get drawn down this cycle of “this side is…. that side is….” while still addressing issues.
You really have a wonderful way with words, Ro. Sometimes it almost sounds more like you’re reciting poetry than a commentary piece. The way you deliver things feels so powerful yet it doesn’t get too pretentious.
Regardless of whether the allegations are true or not, the way that people were so quick to harass the victims + try to rip their stories apart for some popular RUclips guy they barely know is really upsetting, especially considering that they'd ruin other creators they're less attached to for more "mundane" reasons.
As an autistic person who hyperfixates on creators I like, I believe there's a very fine line between simply hyperfixating and being dependent on someone for ALL of your happiness. It frustrates me seeing just how wrapped around his finger Dream's fanbase seem to be + the lack of attempt from Dream to properly establish boundaries that will reduce harm is also not great. I know there are many fans/ex-fans who just want to see Dream improve and will keep giving him the benefit of the doubt because they're so used to investing time and effort into someone who couldn't possibly return it no matter how many "I love yous" he says.
I am so happy that you made this video. I hope that the situation will open some people's eyes and they'll realize just how absorbed in their more-than-parasocial bubble they have become.
I agree so much with your first point!!! he lacks tact and even if by some miracle the allegations are false (which he quite literally admitted that they weren’t) his response was highly telling of his character.
his response to controversies in general has always been similar in that he doesn’t truly admit to wrongdoings, and the “hes young and can’t manage such quick rise to fame” excuse can only get you so far. at some point you have to take responsibility, and even comparing other white boy minecrafters handling their controversies, they manage to hold some tact and at least make a formal apology. its just wild to me that one of the biggest faces in the scene is also one of the most irresponsible and tactless especially with his fanbase, like you said
I think it's pretty fair considering there have been many blatantly false accusations thrown against other members of the dsmp before.
@@anitaremenarova6662 and
@@lhvy5066 You shouldn't believe everything on the internet. Your parents should've really taught you that.
"try to rip their stories apart"...you mean proving them false? Because falsely accusing someone of something as serious as grooming can ruin not only their reputation, but their LIFE, AND IS A HORRIBLE THING TO DO??
i was a dream stan for about 2 years, I'm a queer poc so when I first joined the fandom I felt like it was one of the most accepting communities I had ever been a part of (mind you I was 17 and going through a cluster fuck of identity crises). but as time went on I found that the deeper you went into the community, the more it showed its true colors. racism, transphobia, antisemitism, it was like a little cocktail of how far people were willing to go to defend a man they ultimately didn't know. last yeamucr dream said something about getting a thrill out of quote-retweeting people that openly criticized him on twitter that was terrifying, and it pushed me to leave the community. I loved dream and his content, and I wish I could said I had a clean slate when I left the community, but the truth is that I was an angry stan too, I got very defensive over anything mildly negative related to dream and I refused to see anything beyond what I was conditioned to think by the creator and the community. I can say these things in retrospect but ofc back then I thought that it was normal and healthy, and I was just having fun. but I really do hope people, stans, start understanding that criticism isn't hate.
When a creator/celebrity has a second Snapchat account that they add fans on it’s a red flag immediately
As an ex mcyt and dream fan people inside and outside of the fandom NEED to look at the way these creators talk about accountability. So much of the allegations or offensive clips that are brought up against the creators are dismissed by the fandom for trying to get them "cancelled" and the reason this response is so common is because of the mcyt creators! Their language and tone when addressing criticism and allegations is downright manipulative to a certain degree. Accountability is thrown to the wind when they tell their fans the people who believed the victims are "gullible" and "band wagoners", even going so far as to say the victims making accusations are "clout chasers" who want attention. I honestly have more empathy for the fandom because of this rhetoric that is constantly fed to them by not just the creators, but their own fans. RUclips accounts dedicated to dismissing allegations made against these creators with hundreds of thousands of subscribers and stans constantly talking about how sweet and kind their favorite creator is and how they couldn't possibly have done something wrong all add up to a toxic and unhealthy response to criticism and allegations. If you are reading this and are part of the mcyt and dream fandom please PLEASE watch this video in its entirety with an open mind, and think critically when others in your fandom are dismissing issues being brought up.
I’d agree but jschlatt is a shit person who’s been outed numerous times for saying some problematic shit
jschlatt is so based
@@silverdrag0n_ did you read the comment or are you an upset dream stan
@@jinxhex do you think a dream stan would call jschlatt based?
@@silverdrag0n_ I said that his comment was an example of the PROBLEM, I'm not a jschlatt fan and I was using his quote as an example of RUclipsrs language when addressing allegations and such.
As an autistic person with a special interest in the Dsmp, as well as content surrounding it, I'm realizing I can't go on ignoring stuff like this. Dream has never been my favorite by far, but for a while I absolutely considered myself a fan. I've only ever seen the good side of the fandom, mostly Instagram and RUclips, where I focused on fanart and the direct content from the streamers themselves. Hearing about the part of the fandom on Twitter that acts absolutely horrible is like a slap in the face, that the community I've always felt safe in because of the prevalence of neurodivergance and lgbt+, is actually not that good at all. I've absolutely seen the stereotype of the "dream stan" but realizing that it exists in extreme prevalence makes me feel horrible. Seeing other people's POVs when it comes to the allegations are making me reconsider my status supporting Dream.
37:00 it almost seems like with these fandoms theres a sunk* cost fallacy. They received so much hate for being in the community that the community and creator has to be worth it
Edit:typo
im not sure if its a typo and im truly not trying to be rude, its the sunk cost fallacy. named so bc it references the amount time/money/effort that people dedicate or 'sink' into something. i really think you are on to something here. ro makes a good point about people wanting to keep being able to consume things that comfort them, but i do think there are some people who react from a place where they're so invested they dont feel like they can divest themselves from it, for a multitude of reasons
@@cassinipanini yeah thanks It was a typo😅
I feel like despite the satire this comment section is actually talking about this in a somewhat mature manner rather than just “dream fan bad. Dream fan die” a lot of dream fans are just misguided kids, and not everyone who likes the dream smp actually likes dream. After seeing the way he handled his conflicts I couldn’t really find it in me to respect him and I had been a dream smp fan for over a year. I still like the smp story at least for the earlier days and I still like the dynamics between Wilbur and his friends and enjoy “bench trio / sbi” side of the smp but I’ve kinda grown past it
I never really liked Dream, only ever got into the dsmp thanks to Techno and now that he's gone I drifted away from all of it.
@@anitaremenarova6662 I got into it bc of an animatic I saw for the mind electric and I was curious about what the animatic meant so I watched wilburs playlist and it was super cool and fun but I never really cared much about dream
I will say, a lot of people forget about Anastasia, who was the first person to come out with her story. This is because she's been completely inactive on Twitter. She privated her account because she was receiving mass harassment and death threats. Amanda hasn't been active, but she is getting legal help so it makes sense. So many people harassed her snd her account is still public. I really do hope those two are alright.
I don't have anything to really to add to the discussion. Just that when you ended the video with "I hope your life gets better", I audibly said "Thanks Ro. I hope yours does too." Sometimes when your life is absolute shit, you just need a complete stranger wishing you well to help it feel a little less shit. We're all going through something.
As a content creator that covers Dream and the SMP but also loves Rose’s videos, I couldn’t wait to hear what she has to say.
❤️
I think you were really kind and empathetic to Dream stans, more than I've seen from any content creator. If they bully you they didn't watch the video because this was a breath of fresh air. And speaking of fresh air, and fridge biohazards I currently have a bag of what is just mold now because I wanted to see what happened to some cheese that was slightly moldy, I found it yesterday after nearly a year. I'm an adult with a child
as a former member of his fanbase and current stan twitter user you're truly braver than the troops for this. it's necessary to have this discussion but at the same time fans can and will have your head for even half these points, truly wishing you all the best to avoid that flak
“As a former member of his fanbase and current Stan Twitter user” God bless your soul, talk about braver than the troops
I know ro probably won't see this but the ending of this video stopped me from going back to a toxic relationship.. I don't think ro could ever realized how much some simple sentences she has said have helped me so so much.... or how some unglamourized experiences she has had (like with ocd), make me feel truely understood on a real level that I have never found anywhere else.. I hope some part of her knows that SHE TOO is the parasocial comfort youtuber and distraction from life, for at least one person going through a terrible time. ❤
SHE GOT THE VIDEO OUT!!! SHE PERSEVERED!!!!!!
i'm an ex-dsmp fan, but still currently enjoy other mcyt content. i might've called myself a dream fan wayyy back pre-covid, when dream's youtube videos first started taking off and before he had such an online presence. but the way he handles himself through every controversy is clear he doesnt care about any potential harm he's causing, the victims, and anyone else caught in the crossfire. he cares about how his image is affected. dream has adhd, and as someone with adhd, i can understand the sensitivity to rejection and criticism. but it is something that CAN be controlled. it's not easy to not get emotional and want to lash out, but it is easy to still acknowledge if you've done something wrong, apologize to those hurt, and be better.
dream never does better. time and time again he makes the same mistakes and reacts with vitriol to the victims. he rarely truly apologizes, and only ever does so when backed into a corner, and well after his stans have caused further damage, and pushes everything under the rug as soon as he gets the chance. there was a lot of infighting in the dsmp fandom, most of which was between dream stans and the rest of us. any time someone would express disdain for dream, they'd take it as a personal affront against themselves. they'd constantly misconstrue any criticism against dream as blind hate towards him (and by extension, them). hell, they'd even find ways to make things that had nothing to do with dream, ABOUT dream, so they could defend him. they IDENTIFY *WITH* dream.
and dream does nothing but encourage that mindset, that he and them are "on the same team." he constantly rewards their behavior with "love you guys" tweets on his priv after drama and weird things like selling his snapchat number to talk to him with, and other private info to be "close" to him. its dangerous, is what it is. I hope with the gradual dying out of the dsmp fandom that these dream stans will lose interest and finally wake up to the manipulation they've gladly been leaning into this entire time. it's sickening to watch.
I went through an extremely similar situation you did. The longer I was in the DreamSMP fandom the worse it got, from the outside and inside perspective.
Over the span of quarantine i would interact with his content less and less, only to be violently dragged back into the circle by each outrage and over-corrected action dream made. It was painful.
I was (and still am) fans of other creators in and associated with the MCYT community, and seeing others slowly distance themselves from dream should've been a telling sign.
Over each course of drama and throwback, everything from my interest to my mental health deteriorated as I was forced to watch the reaction and response of each allegation. It ruined my experience, and i slowly cut off my contact with all MCYT and associates in general. Months later, i would slowly re-watch and reinstate my interest in those previous creators (minus dream & co) and overall i have enjoyed it alot more. It feels like healing from secondhand damage, as the creators i watch now make good apologies, know what boundaries you do not cross, and overall provide a safer space than the DREAMSMP fandom ever did.
Anyways, i hope this makes sense ^^ i pray my 2 cents add to the conversation in a useful way :)
47:30 ohmygod this part of the video is just incredible, really cuts to the center of this whole thing. the survey results are honestly a great dissection of the wider trends of online fandom culture you started talking about in your john mulaney video. groups of young, white queer people discovering themselves and how their lives intersect with politics for the first time (since they're white they weren't forced to do this as young children in the same way nonwhite children are). they develop parasocial attachments to these young white men who play games and tell jokes as "comfort creators," men whose main draw is that they're doing the bare minimum, that they're not openly bigoted towards THEM specifically (not necessarily towards nonwhite people). they find a community where they may genuinely feel safe, but that sense of safety is insular and self serving. if that community becomes unsafe for someone else: if it facilitates SA and gr**ming, if it normalizes racist or ableist language, the FIRST victim is THEM, the fans. that person who claimed Dream was a victim of his allegations was very revealing because if Dream is also a victim here, then what does that say about them. recently SA allegations came out against an indie singer/songwriter whose music I hadn't really followed, but I checked in with the news anyways just to stay in the loop. the comments were SO revealing. people were shaking and crying about having to take his songs off their playlists. someone was crushed that they no longer wanted to dance to his songs at their wedding. I saw the real pain these fans were feeling, but at the same time these comments felt almost...soulless? like, they read an article about a woman going through possibly the worst experience of her life, and with the way that the internet and social media so DEHUMANIZES people, they could turn around and make it about themselves without a second thought. and in PUBLIC no less, where she could potentially see it, where other victims of abuse could potentially see it. I wanted to sympathize with this feeling of having this great, meaningful art forever tainted, but the way the discussion was so flagrantly presented just felt deeply selfish. I also feel there's a conversation to be had about "comfort content," and what people different people view as "political." you could say any famous young white guy is inherently political, just on the fact that his whiteness and maleness are part of what got him to where he is. but for others (esp white people), it's the opposite. he's seen as neutral, the default. there can be safety in the familiar when you're part of the dominant group, where racist microaggressions are just another part of that familiarity and they wash over you until someone points them out to you. then the bubble is broken, and you have to decide if you're gonna finally step out of it for good, or if you're gonna turn around and tell the person who popped it that YOU were the victim and THEY were the real aggressor, just for bursting it in the first place.
ive always felt weird when people make comments like “omg i can NEVER LIKE THIS PERSONS STUFF AGAIN” after a popular person is has serious allegations under their belt… youve taken a possibility disastrous thing and made it about how it affects you as opposed to any victims of the situation. what really gets me is when stuff like this happens and then people will go “if (insert other popular person here) is ever problematic ill die” or similar statements. we dont know these people, and we will never know them personally. it just feels so weird and self centered.
this is so well-put and i wholeheartedly agree
excellent excellent comment, the ROC allegations were such a telling moment. I think this could work the opposite way as well, with people relishing in the downfall of artists for their own selfishness. After 2.5 years i (a black genderfluid non male kpop enjoyer) finally waned myself off of Kpop twitter. The biggest reasoning was school and being busy, but an exhausting trend i noticed was when groups would make sexist/racist/ overall problematic comments and behaviors and the antis of those groups would celebrate the fact they could use it as a legitimate reason to hate them. Even with groups I hate for their behavior, its like antis would anticipate for a black individual to be harmed so that they can pretend to defend black fans in their vitriol.
@@periwinkleadidas RIGHT?? They'll wait for something bad to happen in order to use it as fodder for stan wars, and then turn around and promote their fave for being "unproblematic" when we know damn well we don't know any of these people, and the whole reason this keeps happening is people keep searching for an unproblematic celebrity to stan when that simply doesn't exist!!! I'm so sorry you had to deal with all the mess that goes on on kpop twitter. the entire industry rips from black art and black fans are aware of this, but when nonblack fans "discover" this for the first time, they turn around and use the most blatant examples of racism as a gotcha instead of actually examining the harm being done. It's exhausting!!!
Super well put-of course, it’s ok to feel these things and feel disappointed and hurt, I understand that intimately, but keep that to yourself. Someone is having their life ruined right now, and it’s not you.
for context I’m a queer, indigenous, person who falls under the trans umbrella, I also have autism and ADHD
I used to be in the Dream SMP fandom [~July 2020 - September 2021] however I wasn’t into Dream and I’ve gotta say, this was the worst fandom experience I’ve ever had, even during my time in the Dream SMP community, I never liked him [I was more into Wilbur Soot and Fundy] and at some point I mentioned my dislike for him after the indigenous war cry incident and how he handled it, I did this on Twitter, what does Twitter do? dogplie, what happened to me? I got dogpiled. I was spammed gore, death threats, doxxing threats, people threatened my reptiles, called me slurs and so much more. overtime near the end of my hyperfixation I drew fanart for the Dream SMP less and less and began drawing more of my new hyperfixation, and got backlash for that! it was pure insanity, I have many other stories, but I thought I’d talk about that one in particular, since it stuck with me a lot, I’m mostly desensitized to gore but it shocked me with how fine people were with sending me it, I feel so bad for people who are still in the community, I do hope they leave, it can be hard if it’s a hyperfixation but it improved my mental health so much and I hope things go well for those who are leaving/recently left the fandom, same goes for those who left the fandom awhile ago
[very sorry for weird English, it’s my second language, it’s 4 AM and RUclips mobile sucks]
Holy hell I'm so sorry you went through that, what a vile way to treat someone. It's insane how comfortable people are with switching into full-on, unironic villain behavior when they think theyre "defending" someone (who is not only objectively in the wrong but also doesn't know they exist and doesnt give 2 shits about them.)
omg how dare you, an indigenous POC, have an opinion on a racist thing he did /sar
jokes aside, that was really shitty and im so sorry that happened to you!!
Seeing this happen to people is one of the reasons I left twitter
genuinely thank u sm for this video, ive been a fan of creators who are only associated with him and never been a personal fan of him so ive always been critical of his behaviors (especially as a poc) while being intrinsically aware of his actions but it was frustrating because any criticism of him always ignored nuances and didnt account for the demographic of the fan bases, immediately dismissing the valid communities built. this gave room for him to build even more parasocial relationships as he was able to dismiss ALL critique as mindless hate, which was seen in the recent allegations.
so glad you brought up his twitlonger because he has a tendency to bring up buzzwords and never truly apologize. he deflects and minimizes, so while he definitely admitted to, at best, something highly irresponsible, he was able to skew it by making it seem as if it wasn’t that bad to which his stans take it as an immediate pass for the entire situation.
another mcyt named bizly has been critical of dream before and when the allegations came out, he had pointed out that even if the claims were false, it is still highly irresponsible and inconsiderate to immediately go “they’re fake cant hear you” and go on the defensive, and in the past bizly has also discussed the parasocial relationships dream harbors and he had faced massive amounts of harassment for it (bringing this up just to show that even when members of his own social circle speak out against it, dream still manages to escape scott free) ((also dream hardly truly utters the words “i’m sorry” as in all his apologies he manages to deflect some of the blame, and truly never attempted to quell his fans from attacking bizly))
it’s infuriating that he is such a prominent name, considering the mcyt scene is so vast and harbors some of the most diverse gaming communities (which there is still not much in the name of diversity sometimes but by comparison, mcyt is leagues ahead of other gaming scenes) and there is just always an association with him, and whats a bit odd to me is that not even that long ago everyone was so keen to dismiss and hate on dream for arbitrary things (his sexuality, his fanbase demographic, the speedrun) but the silence surrounding actual harmful acts? very sinister.
sorry for the long comment, just genuinely so glad there is someone so eloquent actually speaking about this and taking into account the nuances
ANOTHER BIZLY FAN IN THE WILD‼️‼️ i know this is off topic to your comment but out of curiosity do you listen to just roll with it as well??? i dont have any social media for the most part and never get to talk to people about the podcast WAHAHA
@@ARACHNIDPARTY i only watche the jrwi podcast with wilbur in it and that was a while ago im sorry 😭but i do see a pretty tight knit fanbase for it on tumblr if u ever wish to venture there :]
@@beachbummrr lol thats totally ok!! and thanks for the recommendation, i might get back on tumblr WHAHAHA
Ayy, same boat here mate! Not a direct fan but A fan of people who associate with him. You made some great points; I hope you’re doing well ♥️ I need to check out Bizly I guess lmao
When I was a dream watcher I related to him and the way he dealt with controversy, but fortunately I was old enough to recognize that within myself and see it as a red flag. I like to be right. I have been the powerful one in relationships, and, despite my best intentions, I have hurt people. I'm lucky enough to not be a public figure and to be young, still learning and growing from my past toxic relationships. What I have done in the past hurt people, and I was also hurt. Being idolized by someone is very fun until you realize you have become their everything, and suddenly your actions have a lot more consequences than they did before. Thankfully I recognized those imbalances in my own relationships and isolated myself from them. I am still learning what healthy attachment looks like, and I'm happier now than I have been in a while.
I do not defend dream. There is no excuse for his behavior and how it's been perpetuated over the years, especially given his status and track record. The fact that he doesn't have a PR team is continuously staggering. I do understand him though, and I think that's what made me ultimately detach from the fanbase. The amount of obsession about him as a person is not healthy for him or his viewers. He cultivates a cult-like culture because it feels good and gets him money. I genuinely don't think he thinks about the effects that has on him or the psyche of his very young fanbase.
I hope dream is deplatformed, or at the very least that his current methods change. He consistently causes harm with his actions (though I believe he doesn't intend to) and that's grossly negligent and scummy. It's reflective of Twitter culture to its natural conclusion. Deifying people who want to be deified leads to power imbalances and abuse. It's not safe and it's not healthy, but it is incredibly attractive.
(Tangent I think it's pretty funny that dream's character in the Minecraft roleplay is literally a god with a poor conception of boundaries)
glad you were able to recognize those traits and work to better yourself!! get that character development bestie 💪💪
This is probably the most compassionate video on the topic of fandoms I've ever seen. Almost nobody starts or ends with the acknowledgement that just because "fandom" has become a marketable, sellable-to category in the public eye that people still get bullied for being.... nerds, essentially. I feel for these kids. A lot of my childhood and teenhood was the same, it just happened offline, I was just existing and liking a thing and almost never even talking about it to anyone because.... talking about it just got me mocked. It got me branded, it got me isolated, it got me denied access to social groups because I was somehow doing something wrong by having fun and enjoying myself. And the bullying is so much worse now because of the way it can be decentralised, a dozen people can be tweeting at you to off yourself and that's a much smaller mental burden on THEM and a much greater one on the victim.
And the rest of it... well, trust Ms Ramdin to have the best takes and a compassionate perspective on the way people are bad, sometimes. Between this and the JDvsAH video, I'm no longer surprised by the nuance, I'm simply... enjoying it. It's like a pressure valve, hearing someone make things that make sense.
I really love this video, I've been in so many fandoms that have been made fun of all the time (kpop, anime, etc.) And it really encapsulates why the reaction to allegations and insults are so personal. It's a usually very unhealthy attachment where you don't know where your Fandom self ends and when your real self begins. It becomes such a big part of you that any attack against what you enjoy is an attack on your own self. I really appreciate the respect you gave people in this video -t hough I don't expect less haha, it's still well appreciated since people are so quick to judge and hate on people in fandoms as they're easy targets, especially since their reactions can be quite emotional.
You worded this so well!
imo, no creator at dream's size should EVER talk like that with fans, platonically or romantically. no matter what, there is going to be an inevitable power dynamic that just cant be avoided and it is no good for ANYONE. dream is constantly irresponsible with his fans and enables their horrific behaviour which is why i can never, EVER feel sympathy or believe him.
But like, what do you do then? Are you just never allowed to meet anyone ever?
@@guyferrari8124 not everyone is a dream fan. Most people aren’t.
I dont know if you know him but another RUclips creator called philza sometimes gives advice to new streamers or people of that kind and he does that knowing his platform and their dynamic and I think that that is the only way to engage 1 on 1 with fans
if the allegations are true or not, it doesnt matter. the way that dreams stans reacted to the victim coming forward, completley tearing them apart shows that they are not supportive to victims. if this turns oit to be true or not to be true, if this happens again (or happens for the first time) then the victim is way less likely to come forward after seeing how they responded. most dream stans scare me because they are just so ride or die for some dude on the internet that they do not even know
Believe victims, not accusers
@@guyferrari8124 how do you know if someone is a victim or an accuser until it is unequivocally proven that something did or did not happen?
@@theboondoggliest That saying is more for people who come out of the woodwork with a massive twitter thread alleging they’ve been groomed. You have to do an investigation on that kind of thing because there have been way too many times where the allegations where proven false.
@@guyferrari8124 idk if im just not understanding what your saying but in every grooming or SA situation there has to be an investigation, not believing or supporting a victim even when you dont have all the details perpetuates the mindset that SA and grooming survivors arent telling the truth, and lead to people who have gone through this with no support (which is something that happens extremely often, speaking from experience). Im not saying that people who DO lie about stuff like this are good people, theyre not, they damage peoples belief in actual victims, but the number of false allegations are extremly small in comparison go true allegations.
So yes, believe the victim
@@theboondoggliest Listen, I’ve been in the twitter dramasphere through a few fandoms and I will tell you there has been enough times where somebody tries to get someone thrown to the twitter dogs for false grooming allegations for reasons that can range from monetary to petty to personal gain that you can’t take anything at face value. This goes for both sides as well, as you can’t immediately believe someone once they put out a defense. Serious claims like these need to be taken with nuance because they can ruin lives. (Not saying that’s what’s happening with dream, I’m talking in general)
I'd like to genuinely thank you for portraying parasocial relationships in a whole, not just "ur weird if u feel like this". Especially as someone with a horribly personal connection with one of the creators youve mentioned in this video (jschlatt. yeah, i know.) relationships like this are so fucked, and my attatchment to jschlatt has genuinely fucked me up horribly. Ive spent countless nights crying and hating myself both for liking him and for not being him. its not his fault, but in the case of Dream it absolutely is.
Dude get help
i don't mean to be rude but like literally anyone in the world and you chose him? mutton chop racist?
I love how much compassion Ro had towards the mcyt community. so many ppl (including myself) have devoted 2+ years of all of our time and energy into the fandom. I’ve finally been able to step away a bit but it genuinely felt like my life was built around it and just recently I was able to recognize how unhealthy it was. I understand how hard it is for ppl to accept that something that has brought them so much joy and comfort isn’t all good.Sending love to everyone in the fandom. I know the situation really took a toll some ppls mental health including my own and I had been much less involved in the fandom at that point.
you are braver than anyone who has ever done anything
as a former dream stan, i want to thank you for making this video. although i didnt get the chance to fill out the survey (which is totally okay sending it out so many times was crazy), i was looking forward to this because i knew you would be able to provide the level of nuance needed for this topic, and you absolutely delivered. you hit the nail on the fucking head.
wonderful video as always, stay safe !
And Manatreed situation wasn’t even false 💀 most of the older fans understand and know that it’s true but that Dream couldn’t confirm it without doxing himself. Younger fans to this day believe Manatreed was innocent, and exactly the same kind of separation happened with the recent allegations too :\
And the face reveal basically confirmed it was real, but again his fanbase will just ignore it because dream said it's fake
I hate the fact that stans/fandoms are now things we all live in actual fear of. And that there are MULTIPLE fandoms that behave this way. Wtf.
I'm getting to the end of this and I gotta say--this is really well done. You bring up great points that are *universal* not just about internet culture. I'm 31 now and have been involved in my local rave scene for 11 years and a lot of the allegations Dream has can be applied to soooo many powerful figures and their fans. It's truly sickening how often everything you are describing.happens.
im starting to feel like my comments on your videos are getting repetitive, but i just cannot stress what a talented writer you are. i am a former dsmp fan and the way you described the shame i feel abt it now is very accurate. this was great
I'm so glad you made this video. As an ex dream stan, there's so many wrong things in that community I do not wish for anyone to ever get near it
i was called problematic by my old dttwt groupchat for tweeting abt parasocial relationships like 2 years ago and then they removed me from the group 😭 i’m so glad i left that hellscape of a website and fandom
I'm so happy I got out and can now see all the issues with it. I even signed up for his text line thing which now I look back at and gag.
@@rhyssocialawkwardness8170 OH MY GOD I FORGOT ABOUT THE TEXT LINE??? literally insane. i dont blame the chronically online neurodivergent kids as much as i blame the ADULT CREATOR for cultivating this shit. also not saying being neurodivergent or a minor is a defence against all criticism, i haven’t gotten my government assigned lobotomy as ordered by joe biden (#godblessamerica), but i am more willing to cut them slack than the literal adult setting up a text line, making a private twitter account, and selling his baby pics in a usb bracelet to his child fanbase 😕😕
@@cb.on.yt22 you can never say anything negative about dream otherwise everyone called you an anti it was awful
@@rhyssocialawkwardness8170 godd.. if you could see my old stan account you'd wanna bleach your eyes
One of the biggest problems I have with Dream is how he manipulates his very big, young and impressionable audience, by feeding into this unhealthy parasocial narrative that helps cultivate some absolutely outrageous behavior, like harrassment, doxxing, etc.
I'm not saying Dream is responsible for the unsaviory actions of every single stan made on his behalf, but due to the size and age-range of his fanbase, he does carry a great responsibility for how he interacts with them. A responsibility which he doesn't seem to care about, based on how little he actually acknowledges these very serious things his fans has done, even making fun of others for caring about it.
In short, Dream reads to me as the type of guy that believes he's above others, and likes manipulating people into thinking the same without facing the consequences (just look at the Minecraft speedrun fiasco, for instance). Sorry for the rant, but I just had to get it out there, u know?
Thank you for making this difficult video. Also I can't believe how seen I feel about liking drum and bass.
happy to say i scrolled through all the comments in this video (bc i have nothing better to do) and out of 1.3k comments, 8 were hate comments. as a fan of dream myself, this was a really good and educational video. this whole grooming situation really made me step back and be able to criticize a lot of the ways dream responds to controversy. your videos are a delight to watch, as always
I started doing the same thing and I’m so happy you went through 1000 comments first esp because I go through the replies too. I’m so glad there’s only been 8. I could feel Ro’s anxiety radiating through the screen. I hope that’s as far as it goes. Ro was so brave to do this. I know nothing about Minecraft but just through other YT videos over the years I’m aware of Dream and how dedicated his stans are and you don’t want to mess with them. It’s good to see you said you were a fan and not a stan. There lies a big difference esp if people now know where “stan” originated from and it’s not good. Thanks for doing the work!
As someone who briefly had a small Twitch following (15-20 viewers) it is incredibly obvious 1. If someone following you is a child and 2. How you should NOT speak to that person knowing that they are a child. Those with lower levels of maturity are extremely easy to differentiate and I made it a point as a streamer to ban anyone who seemed too immature for discord from my server. It is really not very difficult to set boundaries between yourself and younger viewers. Then again, maybe that’s why I will never be as popular as Dream, I had too many boundaries. 😅
Also, when I say child, I mean minors. Just to clarify. The difference between a 17 year old and a 21 year old is shockingly stark.
former dream/mcyt fan here! okay to be honest i was a bit more into sbi than the dream team but i guess i did start with the dteam and i've followed a lot of controversies. i don't expect anyone to really read this essay of a fuckin comment but i guess i'll put some final thoughts here regardless.
so i first started watching mcyt related stuff really early on, sometime around either very late 2019 or early 2020 when my youtube recs suddenly were covered with dream and dream team related videos, to the point where it was legit difficult to watch anything else. i actually didn't even realize there was a fandom for this stuff until around june of 2020 when i first started finding people on tumblr, in a place that would eventually be labeled critblr. critblr was a very interesting side of the fandom in that pretty explicitly followed the idea of "be critical of your interests," though how it has treated that idea has evolved a lot over time with people coming and going. in the early days, this essentially manifested as a group of people who saw dream's videos and generally liked them but the vibe check came back republican and they were hesitant to become unquestioning stans. there has always been a very particular personality that gets attracted to critblr, often people either in their older teens/early 20s, fairly politically aware but more leftist than liberal, willing to be "edgy" but still holding a strong (leftist) moral code that isn't really present in the rest of the fandom where younger teens/preteens are much more likely to just go along with what has collectively been deemed acceptable without a lot of arguing for what's best. like the rest of the fandom there are also a lot of white, queer, neurodivergent people, it just leans a little older which actually effects a lot more than you might initially think.
there were a lot more jokes in the beginning, i think. since dream was still a very new figure there wasn't really anything specific you could criticize him for yet, outside the usual jokes of him being a cringe minecraft youtuber, so a lot of it was speculation, most originating from stuff like how he his first video outed him as a pewdiepie fan and how he did a collaboration with known transphobe notch. as stated in this video, the war cry controversy was the first real controversy he had, occurring fairly soon after the creation of the dream smp (yes that early), but the first controversy to really rock the fandom and the first controversy that LASTED was the cheating scandal. i actually remember i had taken a step back from the fandom as i felt like i had been in it for too long (LOL) and when i came back it was all over everything and i was super confused.
other than the manatreed allegations definitely NOT being debunked (i talked about that in a reply to another comment on here somewhere; tldr the mainstream fandom wrote it off cause the allegations originated from findings discovered through doxed info but there are legit reasons to not want him on the platform), this video covers all the controversies pretty well so i won't talk too much about that. rather, i think it'd be more interesting to take a more general look at how dream has responded to controversy in the past, and how his responses have evolved over time.
it's easy to default and just say that his responses have always been shit, and to be fair, they kind of have been. but before the most recent allegations (sorry dunno what youtube will let me write here) i genuinely thought that he was getting better about responding to things. he's always been very quick and emotional with his responses and frankly, immature, but it felt like he had been slowing down and trying to listen to his fandom more. he's definitely always had that "raised republican" vibe, but his fandom being so queer and neurodivergent seems to have made him more aware of a lot of perspectives he didn't necessarily know about previously. not to mention the fact that he is, objectively, still pretty young, not that that means he shouldn't have to deal with criticism, but it does put his emotional push backs to controversy into perspective a bit.
there's a selfish part of me that's frustrated with this most recent controversy because i still stand by many of the ways i've defended him in the past (and the ways i've criticized him!) but it feels like all that nuance is going to get brushed away because why the fuck does it matter anymore. i'm not defending someone who misuses his power and does questionable shit like that, i'm just not. i'm going to believe the victims even when "evidence" is questionable. it honestly freaks me out that i'm around the same age as amanda (the main victim who came out) so that alone makes me not want to interact with his shit anymore, but it's hard not to be salty after years of attachment. not to mention the fact that many people thought the face reveal was gonna lead to a kind of fandom renaissance. this was TWO FUCKING YEARS of waiting for some people, all because dream was a stubborn motherfucker that didn't wanna show his face until his bestie showed up. but also apparently not since he was ("supposedly") all too willing to send pictures to his adoring teenage fanbase. god it's kind of fucking vile to have to think about that, sorry.
i have to thank you for your kindness in approaching this topic. i know dream stans are well-known as being only second to kpop twt stans in terms of intimidating fanbases, but the fact that you tried to see this group with empathy as rational people really means a lot in a realm where most criticisms of dream fans come down to calling them cringe. this is a fandom that in large part was created during quarantine, after all, during a time when just about every person on the goddamn planet was trapped inside losing their minds in ways that we're still largely trying to process. it's an online community that formed out of a collective loneliness and desire for distraction from the horror of the current moment, which when coupled with the feelings of otherness that already naturally come out of being a queer and/or neurodivergent teenager created an incredibly potent allure.
i haven't actively watched dream in ages but this video really does feel like a moment where i can formally close that chapter of my life. it's been hard to watch any content from that sphere after the passing of technoblade (big fuck you to dream for doing a stream with techno's dad in the middle of all these most recent allegations btw, that continues to piss me off like nothing else especially with how mainblr/maintwt has used it to basically ignore everything else) but i think i'll be formally signing off for now. shout out to critblr for having a moral code, it sucks to have a community die so suddenly but it gives me some hope that there are still people out there who recognize when there's something more important than holding onto your fav.
anyways, guess i'll be dragging myself back into kpop now. funny how that is looking to be the more positive fandom right about now. astronaut out.
almost an hour on a topic I can’t wait to see you cover??? RO YOU’RE SPOILING US
I'm not even a dream fan but the part toward the end where you're telling people they aren't destined to be hated, alienated, or ostracized for their mental health and identity made me cry. Not to be doing the thing in the video and getting weirdly parasocial here, but as a nonbinary person who is very much only really dealing with my mental health and untangling these things in my twenties, i just want you to know how much I appreciate your content, the way you articulate your thoughts on these things while maintaining a consistent level of empathy or at least the attempt at understanding someone else on a human level is really, really inspiring. I don't know you but I'm glad your content and voice exists.
Personal favorite part of the video has to be the line graph bit, you hit the nail on the head when talking about how stans treat influencers. Really enjoyed the roast portion as well, I love your writing style. The emotional and personal segments were brilliant too. Like always you knocked it out of the ball park. You're incredibly talented and i'm excited to see you grow. Love ya Ro
It is totally okay to feel scared and anxious when many fandoms, including the Dream community, is full of negativity and hatred for people. Know that you did a really good thing, putting a lot of things people have said and thought into a video. I don’t stan Dream, I used to be a part of the SMP fandom and back when I was in it it seemed so incredible and amazing and supportive, and I’ve met so many people who are still my friends today who were in the fandom. But there’s just too much stress and conflict and idk how to put it into words. But thank you for making this video because I think it speaks for so many people who also feel this way but are too scared to say it. You should be proud of what you’ve done and how much you’ve accomplished. Happy Halloween🎃
This man literally never streams. I dropped the fandom a long time ago bc of how inconsistent he was with streaming. Because of this, I think it’s very strange how loyal and devoted his fans are to him. It’s like they are in love with the idea of him and not him as a real person.
Incredible well made video, Ro. I always appreciate your cinematography towards the end. I really resonated with your ending point: "Change isn't the end of the world. Learning isn't apocalyptical. And sometimes, you have to leave a chapter of your life behind to truly accept what happened during it." Learning to let go is one of the most important things any human being can learn.
I’ve had a mob of people attack me online as well for something i didnt even do, I totally understand the fear. Its like the world is against you and no matter what you say you just add fuel to the fire. You get so much hate and harassment for the littlest things. I don’t think I’ve ever even swore at somebody online negatively unless it was jokingly, i cant imagine how people type death threats and think its ok. Some people might say that you being scared is an overreaction, and they obviously have not been the target of a mob of haters before. Its awful. We support you and frankly this video was amazingly done. I just hope people take time to digest the meaning without instantly hating
rose, yours is one of the single most important voices among the commentary age of youtube. you ask real questions and you do it with the most amazing and open minded approach. i tell my friends who are parents to watch you because their kids get to grow up in a world influenced by you and it is a beautiful thing to witness. i hope you continue to inspire growth in all you do.
Ro, this is so good. I love how you use the behind the camera perspective to humanize and center your own vulnerability. Meeting people with respect for their perspective and validating their feelings is the first part of reaching anyone, and I think you master that. Bless, and good luck
thank you for speaking about this. truly.
i'm an ex-dream fan, and after finding out about this situation, immediately me and some other people on tumblr have tried to spread awareness about it. though, we felt like we were yelling into the void, as it's honestly a pretty small corner of tumblr and most of the voices were coming from twitter, voices defending dream.
we tried our hardest to keep this situation alive with all the big things happening around it, but eventually most of us grew desperate. we gave up, some moved to new blogs entirely, leaving this shitshow behind.
it was honestly really tragic to see how the situation was already being swept under the rug; most of the people whom i follow in the fandom either didnt acknowledge it in the slightest, or made one statement about "staying neutral" (all while still drawing dream fanart and directly supporting him)
i myself just gave up on trying to spread anything else on this matter like 2 or 3 days ago. then i stumbled on this video.
once again, thank you. and i'm also glad that you didnt just talk about the situation, but also called him out for his irresponsibility with how he handles his platform as a whole, i also loved the survey idea.
i've said that i'm an ex fan, but that wasn't until the grooming situation. and as you know, there were tons of controversies beforehand. and when watching this video, i realized that i was either completely unaware of most of the other controversies, or heavily underestimated some of them as i do not have twitter and just take whatever people said on other platforms (for this situation however i did log on to twitter to find proofs).
so i'm glad you're also shedding lights on that as well.
(on a lighter note, i really really really love the personality you portray! i love the vibe of the video and i adore your jokes! you've just earned a new subscriber!)
Ro, your roasts and run on jokes kill me every time. You're so creative and funny. Every insult/roast makes me laugh more as they compound on each other.
You have a wonderful balance of comedic and serious and I really like it!
I love how their edits cut themselves off in the beginning 😂😭
This kinda helped me process thoughts and feelings after learning of a racist performance happening in a gay bar that i frequent. I was not there for said performance, but i been reading through the aftermath online and seriously considering attending the "townhall meeting" addressing the local queer community's thoughts and concerns. I do love your personal interjects of your own feelings while creating your videos and your extremely sharp wit.
I've been seeing this video in my recommended for a couple days now and I was pretty apprehensive to watch it, I've been a pretty big fan of Dream and the dsmp and other mcyt creators for around two years now. I have seen many allegations and videos made about these creators and I've always been weary of watching them. Most time those videos make fun of creators and fans in ways that disturb me. I think this is the first video I watched that truly had a grasp of what fans experience.
Many of us have hyperfixations on these creators, and having situations like this happen fucking sucks. I saw some people wanting to give the benefit of the doubt, after all people have faked allegations before. I saw others completely turning on him, they would delete their accounts and completely move on from mcyt. I also saw people defending him, throwing hate toward the victims and threatening them. I can understand some of that though, when you spend years of your life watching someone, and being a fan of someone who you know has gotten so much hate you want it to be fake.
I do think this situation awoke something in many fans. I know there is people who went right back to watching him like nothing happened and others who completely moved onto new things. But you can't deny there was a change in how people view things. I know myself I took a much more critical eye then I used to have, we at this point in time have no clear answer on who is right or wrong. I don't even think there is a right or wrong, there is just and is and an isn't.
But this entire thing can be a learning lesson to consider other perspectives. You said it best in the video, many dream stans shut themselves off from outsiders. So many of us already face hardships either it be you are poc, lgbt, neurodivergent or what else. So few communities accept us with open arms, and people hate on it. So viciously hate on it that you might feel embarrassed or scared to talk about it. However, that does make it easier for these parasocial relationships to form, when the world speaks so harshly about you. You want that thing that accepts you to keep accepting you, you might even ignore the signs you should have watched out for. I know I did it. I accepted and defended Dream for so much shit he did wrong in the past because I couldn't accept losing that community that part of my life I put so much time into.
I'm kind of rambling at this point. I just really wanted to comment on how this is such a well made and spoken video from someone who clearly didn't want to insult or make of stans. You just want them to think deeper and more critically about creators, and for specifically creators like Dream. To have them understand sometimes people just might be shitty. And you did it in such an emphatic and understanding way.
I have no idea if I got my point across I just had to comment and say thank you for this video. You did an amazing job.
i think your insight on being locked into a community is so fucking good. thank you for not just attacking and running, thank you for loving on the people who are stuck because of mental health. you never cease to be kind, youre doing great
54:25 I didn’t expect a whole-hearted, earnest, empathetic response. I’m not a part of the mcyt fandom but your words of kindness and the sentiment of ‘not being determined for pain’ brought me to tears.
This is a wonderful, well made and excellently executed video. Thank you for including the intermissions to discuss how you were feeling. It was very honest and real. ❤
As an ex-Cry fan, from a decade ago, Dream feels like 2022 Cry ..... Like uncannily so. The avatar, the voice, the mostly LGBT community, the rabid protectiveness over that space and even n*zis....
I would argue that it is in fact a larger sociological issue. It happens over and over again. It’s the commodification of human beings. And humans are multi faceted, gross, ugly, flawed, mistake making, and sometime remorseless. Commodifying, simplifying, and magnifying all of the flaws of the people we idolise makes us feel close to them but they are also flaws. And so many fanbases smooth over serious flaws and turn them into what makes them “iconic” and sometimes that’s ok but sometimes that is putting your idol above served prison sentences.
Dream infuriates me particularly bc he provided a space for queer and neurodivergent kids and teens but like he was a cishet white dude with adhd like….. he probably wouldn’t even have been in his own demographic? Just tired of the cishet white dudes tbh. Like not specific to RUclips just in general they can no longer.
I'm like halfway through the video right now and i just gotta say I am blown away by the way you present information in a fun yet super respectful way
people really attacked ro for “not being attractive” when she’s the most attractive woman on the internet tbh
FR
The makeup is ALWAYS on point
I just found Ro today and have been binging the videos and I'm so excited about it!! Omg her humor is fantastic
I’m currently writing an essay on new media and how it clouds our perception of reality, dream so happened to be my main subject for the second half, so thank you so much for your research. As some one with no following it would of been near impossible for me to gain enough responses to conduct my own research, your video is so informative on dreams fanbase and stan culture in general.
i think this video was done really well and i appreciate u putting yourself out there. i just wanted to say that around 29:30 you said that 93% of the survey takers were queer and then went on to talk about how large a portion of dream stans are queer, but 93% of the people who are dream stans and could access the survey are queer. the people who did the survey likely follow you on twitter and are more likely to be queer because they follow you, so 93%, while a large portion, doesn’t necessarily correlate to the portion of dream stans who are queer. it’s whatever but i just thought i’d share idk
Yeah I'd be interested in dropping the link to the poll in a place where it is mainly dream stans and less crossover, even just to get the self identity statistics
id agree but ive seen the in-community polls on the subject and they show similar numbers. the vast majority pf the mcyt fan community is queer
as a former HARDCORE dream stan this video is very healing for me. very rough period of my life and its good to hear many people have had a similar situation
same here!!
As someone who's been limiting my time online so that I don't become wrapped up and weighed down by everything all the time, this was an extremely interesting video. Fanbases have the tendency to cave in on themselves and burrow into the ground, forming a strong, insular defense line and this is simply one of the best examples of it. I don't look down on people who like these safe spaces though; heaven knows I have my favorite content creators too. anyways, your comment about him having the vibe of a third chair trumpet made me lose it because it's so accurate