Paul Bartnik my grandparents have a black one with the ram air package and the ws6 package, and the formula package. It took 8 months to make, and boyyyyyy is it worth it!!!
i just picked up 99 trans am for 7k..the guy just wanted it out of his garage to make room for his new corvette...i have never made a faster run to my bank to get cash to hand to this guy....it has 140k but you would never know it still screams down the road....i got lucky
ill probably get hated on for this. but the 99 cobra they had was before ford recalled ALL 1999 cobras. they changed manifold, exhaust ect. they were busted, dyno runs having of a 99 cobra closer to the 99 gt power, so they stopped sales and recalled sold units to increase performance
WS.6 Trans Am all the way. God I love Trans Am. Such a beautiful, unique looking car. For me, it's Trans Am or nothing. I had a 1996 TA but sold it in 2010. I'm looking at buying a t-top 30th anniversary TA or a 2002 collector's edition TA, or a bright red 2002. Funny how the Camaro looks a lot like the Chrysler Sebring.
As others pointed out, this may have been before Ford recalled all 1999 Cobras and boosted their horsepower to the advertised 320 hp. Went from 285 to 320 hp.
It was always known that GM was underrating the Firebird and Camaro. 320hp "advertised" but on a chassis dyno they would lay down 295hp. Do the math and a lot of people think they were really putting out 350hp. The same as the Vette.
What I saw at my old shop was (stock cars) Ford 5.0l & 4.6l (NOT THE RARE DOHC found in the Cobra) was 160-180HP @ wheels, LT1 265-285HP @ the wheel, LS1 300-330HP @ the wheels with ADVERTISE power rating the GM LT1 300HP and LS1 350HP.
Sigh not only is that so FAR from the truth, Firebird got discontinued for poor sales in 2002 not only that they don't even make Pontiac brand anymore and that says a lot
+Keyboardwarrior1990 The trans am firebird was more expensive of the three so it did not sell well and Pontiac was shut down because of the the Gm Government bailout
SALES have NOTHING to do with whether a car is BETTER. The Firebird clearly WON this competition. But FORD and CHEVY are BIGGER COMPANIES with bigger advertising budgets. They clearly PAID for these results.
Don't understand how the TA could have been last? I guess because its a convertible and not a T-top??? As someone mentioned in the comments, my TA is a 2000 and even to this very day ALOT OF PEOPLE give me very good comments about my car. Also, its very true that I do get a lot of comments from HOT GIRLS!!
I played hell finding mine. but the firebirds are gonna be worth more than the camaro's because the Birds aren't made anymore so everybody and their brother wants one. I still think the Trans Am beats the other two though
@@davidgalinat4257 agreed, I had a 4th gen camaro and one thing for sure they look very dated. I own a 4th gen T/A and it still has a great look to it.
Thank you for you comments. Of course, the 4-valve design is inherently superior because of flow efficiency. On the other hand, GM has optimized the 2 valve configuration. Other Facts: 1. Corvette offered the LT5 4 valve engine [Lotus designed] from 1990 to 1995. Production of about 7,000 units. 2. Nurburgring Records have been held by ZR1 [7:19] and Z06 [7:22] at various times. Both are 2 valve designs. 3. Even with 662 hp, the Shelby still can not equal speed of Z06 & ZR1.
I'm more of a fan of the Trans Am, but I love the looks of both of the F-bodies. The paint job on the Trans Am in this test is commemorative of the 1969 release of the Trans Am. Although back then you could get the Trans Am with the White/Blue stripe or Blue/White stripe paint.
i agree. although there was an $8k price difference, the base c5 was well worth the extra money. if you ask me, and i think a lot of people will agree, (with the exception of most ford fan boys, but they don't count anyway) vettes have been and will always be held in a higher regard than mustangs. they're not even in the same class. it's more well respected, i personally believe it looks better and is better quality, and i believe they were able to out perform the terminators on the track.
Only because they stopped making the trans am and Camaro, but if GM would’ve dropped the LS6 in both those cars for 2003 and 2004, they would’ve been just as competitive against the terminator.
The TA is best in my opinion and is also more rare than the other 2. I see camaros and mustangs everyday, but its rare that I see a TA or firebird. Thats why I love my formula, people don't see them often. Only downside is people always calling it a camaro lol.
...and if anybody read the C and D magazine, the Cobra WAS, in fact, one of the vehicles with the unfinished intake manifold casting. Part of around a few thousand other Cobras that year that had the same issue.
I own a 30th anniversary TA and there is no comparison with the camaro or the mustang on this year!!! I'm a mustang lover and I own a 1973 Mach 1. You can park this cars side by side and the TA will always stand out of the crowd!!
Mustangs are almost over populated, you see them everywhere, don't be afraid to jump away from the crowd. Style wise 1. T/A 2. Mustang 3. Camaro. But you have to look at performance too.
***** you obviously aren't smart because I wasn't referring to the fastest just simply saying that the trans am got third place like they say in the video lol smh
***** if you don't give a shit why are you wasting your time tough guy. Wow by your post you really are fucking stupid as hell, you're a dummy, deal with it.
RIGHT. Also, at the same time , it was revealed that FORD LIED about the MUSTANGS true output. That's why all the recalls ...and why FIREBIRDS and CAMAROS wasted it on the STREET.
Dave L it's always been that way for some reason. The fastest stock fbody time recorded is also a Firebird. 12.8 in a Formula. But I have a 2000 Trans Am WS6 6 speed... check my vids... and it is a piece of shit. Ford makes higher quality cars.
sgfreak96 No...they were down about 20 rwhp (25ish crank). And the LS1 was underrated in the Camaro. Closer LS1 Corvette numbers in terms of rwhp. I've seen the recalled cars still get spanked on the tracks...at least until the Camaro bowed out in 02 and the supercharged Termi arrived in 03.
BEBNC1 I've heard of 99 cobras only making 280 in some cases. And yeah ls1 typically made around 320hp on occassion even though they were claiming 305hp. Chevy makes the better motor, ford makes the better car IMO.
sgfreak96 I think the Mustang had a better fit/finish (inside and out) back then...and seemed more for cruising. The Camaro had the better drivetrain. T56 and LS1 standard in the Z/28 for 20k...great deal back then that Ford couldn't touch. Both very reliable...but that 4.6 modular could be a pain to work on. Owned both. Great cars with big fun.
BEBNC1 Yeah the 5 speed in the mustangs sucked, especially on the highway. Not to mention the 2v 4.6 is the most lifeless engine ever. It has torque but really all it's good for is being loud if you put an exhaust on it. I've ridden and driven both alot as my one friend has an 01 stang and my other friend has an 02 35th anniversary camaro ss.
I have literally had all these cars... But I still have my TransAm all blacked out too... There is no way the TransAm got number three it was one of the hottest cars back then I remember, they were just really expensive$34,000 in 1999 is almost $50,000 in today's standard... You know Chevy and Ford paid for this commercial no doubt
No the GT didn’t make more power, but the cobras weren’t making what was advertised. So Ford recalled it and changed the intake, ECU tune, and some exhaust to actually get it to 320 crank hp.
These old videos are awesome haha. These 4th gen Camaros are awesome. More than respectably fast, handle great and return unbelievably good fuel efficiency. Love that car
what a load of crap the TA IS BY FAR the best one. The camaro looks hideous and no body wants one now a days and the cobra if it isn't the 03-04 terminators are shit. The TA is going up in value also while the non terminator and camaros can be found now for pennies
Eidrian111 So a 2000 Cobra R is "shit"? Rated at 385 hp and they actually dyno'd over 370 to the wheels, built for the track...? Funny how everyone forgets about those
Jamien Moore ET is mostly about traction. They trapped 110+ mph, and that's with a 4th gear 1:1 ratio and 3.55's out back, not great for acceleration. Car was easily capable of 11's @ 115+ mph with just drag radials and gears, but that's really beside the point. It was a corner carver too.
11's with Dr's and gears? No way! The fastest 1/4 mile time ever recorded in a '00 R was in the mid to high 12's driven by Evan Smith in negative DA. A few mags got high 12's, most owners averaged bottom 13's. Of course these cars were setup for a road course and not a quarter mile track, but my point is, it will take more than a tire and gear to put one into the 11's.
Okay? Well congratulations on your succefful google search, but it's a well-known fact among Mustang guys that a sticky tire will drop over a half second off a Mustang's ET. Stock 2011+ 5.0 runs 12.6-12.7 stock, will cut a 12.0 flat with just DR's. Stock Boss 302 runs 12.3 stock and 11.70's on DR's. So it only makes sense that a Cobra R, which already traps 110+ mph with "somewhat decent" gearing and a bunch of wheelspin for the first two gears would be very much capable of an 11 seoncd pass without any engine mods, just tires and gears....all of these cars have similar power..
They did, and the Camaro still beat the Cobra. They reran this test a couple of more times through 2002. I remember reading the test of the SS and WS6 versus the Cobra from 2001 in which the Camaro was the fastest, Trans Am second, and Cobra was far behind. The '93 and the '03/'04 Cobras are the only impressive ones. A friend of mine thought his '94 was badass until I ran neck and neck with my '98 Firebird V6/A4. And I did manage to beat another '94 with the same Firebird.
Still shake my head at this. Chevy definitely had these guys in their pockets. We all know that the T/A was fudging the horsepower truth by dittoing the Chevy ratings. I've had variations of all three of these and, convertible handicap aside, the '98-'02 Trans Am WS6 crushes its Chevy sister and every Mustang up to that point. MotorWeek got it right over Car & Driver. Oh yeah, another dirty secret was that the electronically controlled automatic was 0.5 sec. faster both 0-60 and 1/4 mile. Pontiac wasn't kidding when they said "We Build Excitement". Even Fieros with a 3800 Series crushes all Corvettes. You can see why GM killed the third highest selling automotive brand in 2010
Agreed. Trans Am and GTA Firebirds always blew Mustangs out of the water and both the Camaro and Firebirds toted the Corvette engine, but excelled in handling like the Fiero did with the GT's.
Not exactly. My 02 GT has the intercooled terminator S/C. The motors themselves are good to about 400 HP, give or take. I've had it for a long time. Well over 10k miles. Last time I checked (I work in a garage too) my motor is absolutely fine. It's just how you run it, and how often.
"softer suspension settings" in the T/A ... BS. I owned a 99 WS6 and SS, and the WS6 was easily stiffer off the factory floor. However, they were right in indicating it garnished more attention.
That's what I'm saying! The 88 Formula I had also came with the WS6 Suspension and it could handle better than anything I saw at the time. I would be willing to bet that the T-tops version w/ the weight reduced from it would out perform the SS if not stay right with it. Firebirds got a TON of attention back in the late 90's and early 2000's.
the GT was said to out run the Cobra, owners were pissed...there supposedly was a small recall for the intake & exhaust to uncap the horsepower but it was still slow until the Terminator rolled in ‘03, by that the f-bodies had went on a hiatus. the Terminators would annihilate anything f-body stock.
In 99 the cobra put out way less power than rated. I recall them blaming it on some exhaust manifolds or something. Think it was part of the reason there was no cobra in 00 outside of the R version. They supposedly remedied the problem in the 01 models.
i love how they get the anniversary edition trans am and then penalize it for the price. although even in regular form it would still be slightly more expensive than the ss. also i'm pretty sure the suspension is identical on both f-bodys.
I just like talking to people who know ther stuff! which is your favorite srt. charger srt8, cheroke str8,300c srt8 ,ram srt10,viper srt10,crossfire srt6,magnum srt8,or neon srt4
GM did experiment with supercharged Gen 3 engines that used the standard bottom end. They just didn't implement them because of the cost. Even the LSA in the ZL1 and CTS-V only has a forged crank, not rods or pistons. An LS1 will handle a blower no problem as long as you set it up properly. The hardest part of a blower on an F-body is clearance.
They said the Camaro had better styling/and looked as if it were going 100mph standing still..really are they blind, I'd miss the Camaro going by it's so plain looking, the TA always has looked better in all years ..it just looks badass.
I've seen stock LS1's running on 7-8 psi with no problems. The stock bottom ends have been proven to more than 600 hp in turbo applications. A friend of mine had an LS1 GTO with a modified STS turbo kit, and nothing more than a cam, valve springs, new injectors, and tuning. The car made 600+ rwhp on pump gas for more than 4 years of extremely hard use, until he finally demodded and sold the car.
There are plenty of supercharger kits available for Gen 3 V8's, including the LS1. The LS6 has a little too high of compression for a blowe, but it's been done before. And what part of the LS1 will blow out with boost? Even the LSA can make in excess of 600 bhp, and the only difference between an LSA bottom end and LS1 bottom end is a forged steel crank. same type of rods and pistons as the LS1.
Even the recalled Cobra's were dyno'd and made 260rwhp. Now seeing a stock 99 GT only makes 260hp @ the crank, i find it highly unlikely GT's were beating Cobra's unless they were modified. The only complaints were people who owned 96-98 Cobra's and couldn't tell the difference in hp. After the recall the Cobra made 272rwhp and 320 @ the crank.
They must have tested a Cobra that didn't have "the fix". For those who don't know, when Ford came out with the new 99 Cobra. There were complaints that the new Cobras weren't making the advertised hp (320 at the crank). Dyno testing showed that the cars were barely making 300 hp. After Ford was threaten with a class action lawsuit they came out with "the fix". The fix consisted of a new intake, new catback muffler system and a computer flash. This bought the car up to it's advertised hp rating. This is why there were no 2000 Cobras build.
Most people forget that the 99 Cobra HP wasn't 320, Ford recalled it due to it not even coming close to those numbers. I like the LS1 platform better, but the New Edge body looks better then the F body.
Just sold my 01 SS for a 14 Mustang GT w/trac pack. Miss the 01 but this new Stang is worlds better. Long live both the Camaro and Mustang. Oh yeah, owned a 95 Trans Am too :)
Sorry haters, LS engines are light weight, make good power even with small mods, easy to work on, reliable, plenty of aftermarket parts, get good MPG etc...
I had both 02 Firebird WS6 and 01 Camaro SS. The Firebird was superior in almost every way. The quality was truly better, especially the interior. It’s like Chevy put in zero effort and Pontiac went as far as to add round AC vents, much better looking HVAC control display, red interior lighting vs the SS’s piss yellow, nicer seats, higher quality materials and leather, much nicer gauges, even the shift display looked nicer. The styling was better IMO too but mine didn’t have those stripes, which is what puts the car on this episode over the top. They look way better without decals all over the place.
@insatiableTy i didnt lie. i got the E/T slip right here. and no my car wasnt stock i was running a 75 shot of nitrous. funny thing is, the WS6 was running 100+ of nitrous. i dont have a video because i raced him almost 2 years ago in Kentucky at a Mustang Show in Somerset, KY. i yanked him out of the line and pulled him across the lights. sold the car shortly after to build a caged car to run low 5's in an 1/8th with a 347 stroker SBF.
You're forgetting the valvetrain geometry. 32 valves 4 cams vs 16 valves and 1 cam. They both get the job done in completely different ways. The dohc is taller and typically the same weight or heavier than the smaller compact pushrod plant. I personally love the brawny torque curve from the extra cubes underneath. I'd be disappointed to see GM abandon the pushrod powerplant because they've done more with it than anyone on the face of the planet.
Older video but I'm picking up an 01 this weekend and I believe they're just the much better car. They're not ragged out normally like a Terminator and they havent been mulletfied like the two F bodies.
ford had a statement said the 99 cobras weren't producing what there was supposed to that's why they didn't make them in 2000 and went back make them in 2001
The more 'primitive" axle is typically better for acceleration. it's stronger and there's less wheel hop.this is why so many serious drag racers use a solid axle.
They shouldve gotten one without the limited edition graphics and wheels. That would bring the price closer. I love f-bodys. Camaros and trans ams. I own a 97z28 but i personally think the trans am is a more attractive car.
this video needs to be done again because the 99 cobra was overrated it was not making 320hp thats why they fixed them later on in 2000 and the 01 cobras were producing 320 from the factory the 0-60 times are 5.4 for my 01.
What the video fails to mention is that convertibles are not very rigid and they have support beams to reinforce their structure. This makes them hundreds of pounds heavier and much less agile around corners.
Ford fans are mad that the Camaro was better? Well that's an opinion. ... camaro fans are mad that the Mustang wiped the floor with the camaro in sales? That's a fact rofl
...And PONTIAC fans (like myself) , like the FIREBIRD T/A better than BOTH !!! As DODGE has proven (with the 707 HP Challenger HELLCAT) "IT AIN'T ALL JUST ABOUT FORD and CHEVY !!!"
williamg2552 I hope you're joking. Pontiac was a GM company. And it's a shame the trans am was less popular. but then again it would be fun to blow the doors off of an unsuspecting mustang.
camarojoe982 I'm well aware that Pontiac was a G.M. company. But, I'm also aware that FORD and CHEVY are the two LARGEST American manufacturers...and both boast a HUGE FAN BODY, who thinks that ANY MUSCLE CAR that is NOT a "Ford" or "Chevy" has little credibility, and SHOULDN'T be in the discussion . Sorry, I'm not buying it. PLYMOUTH, DODGE, PONTIAC, and even OLDSMOBILE and BUICK made MUSCLE CARS that were EVERY BIT AS GOOD (and in some cases BETTER),than ANYTHING that ever came down the pike from Ford and Chevy . Again, as I said before, "BIGGEST SELLER" doesn't always mean "BETTER"
williamg2552 lol the hellcats came at the end of a generation of mustang. Plus ford and GM aren't doing insane hp drag cars.. the z28 and even the new gt350 are track cars.. dodge is still stuck in the past.
I read that after an investigation, they found the engine was producing the advertised power on engine stand. But in car, the tail pipe, as it crossed over rear end, constricted exhaust flow enough to decrease power. Whether that was really the cause, I don't know. I have magazines from that time. I will check soon.
There there you go. Testing HP at the engine is much different than testing it after the flywheel, at the actual wheels. Not the same. They probably were advertising it as RW HP rather than BHP.
i see where your comming from here but i want to point out. You can (pretty easily) drop the blower from the terminator cobras onto the GT. IT requires a new upper intake manifold but they are made by several aftermarket companies. the internals should be ok as long as the power is kept below 420crank hp. and under 440 crank ftlbstq. With a built lower end... skys the limit. The transmission is not a T5 either. ITs a T3650 which handles more power than the t 5/45. Just clarifying.
The claims of 320 hp for the 99 Cobra's were wrong, they had a big recall for that year and fixed the problem. After the recall the Cobra's made the 320 hp and ran the same times as the Camaro and Firebird.
The Camaro SS was an SLP upgraded car, which is why in handles better than the WS6 Trans Am. The Firehawks are the Equivalent of the Chevy SS, I believe the hood scoops are a little more functional in the Pontiacs the way the intakes are set up.
There's actually two different kinds of Camaro ss, there's this one where it's only making 320 hp and there's one like I have where it's making "345" and my car has the 1LE package and it handles a lot better than a regular Camaro ss, but not only that but ALL Camaro SS convertibles had the Z28 suspension and didn't have the same suspension like a couple
WS6s are so underrated. They could wipe the floor with a lot of other cars of the time. I would love to own a WS6. They can handle pretty well too
I'd still choose the 30th Anniversary T/A.
FordSix LitreLover no doubt, it's beautiful 😍
I think most people would, at least at the time they came out.
2020 and that Trans Am is still one sexy looking beast!
I a Ford guy and I had to own a WS6 because I just drool over them every time I see one.
i still drive my 2002 WS6 Trans AM....One of the best cars GM ever made !!!
Nothing beats the Trans Am with T Tops
A firehawk does lol
Paul Bartnik my grandparents have a black one with the ram air package and the ws6 package, and the formula package. It took 8 months to make, and boyyyyyy is it worth it!!!
I have both 1999 30th
and 1997 Firehawk the 30th gets the nod.
i just picked up 99 trans am for 7k..the guy just wanted it out of his garage to make room for his new corvette...i have never made a faster run to my bank to get cash to hand to this guy....it has 140k but you would never know it still screams down the road....i got lucky
Trans Am all the way!! Should have tested hard tops, removes lots of weight and the TA came with better suspension.
I was one of those 16 year olds they talk about in the video.. lol And what did I do as soon as I could afford it? I bought one of those Trans Am's...
WS6, Period point blank!
ill probably get hated on for this. but the 99 cobra they had was before ford recalled ALL 1999 cobras. they changed manifold, exhaust ect. they were busted, dyno runs having of a 99 cobra closer to the 99 gt power, so they stopped sales and recalled sold units to increase performance
WS.6 Trans Am all the way. God I love Trans Am. Such a beautiful, unique looking car. For me, it's Trans Am or nothing. I had a 1996 TA but sold it in 2010. I'm looking at buying a t-top 30th anniversary TA or a 2002 collector's edition TA, or a bright red 2002.
Funny how the Camaro looks a lot like the Chrysler Sebring.
that SS convertible is sweet
As others pointed out, this may have been before Ford recalled all 1999 Cobras and boosted their horsepower to the advertised 320 hp. Went from 285 to 320 hp.
It was always known that GM was underrating the Firebird and Camaro. 320hp "advertised" but on a chassis dyno they would lay down 295hp. Do the math and a lot of people think they were really putting out 350hp. The same as the Vette.
What I saw at my old shop was (stock cars) Ford 5.0l & 4.6l (NOT THE RARE DOHC found in the Cobra) was 160-180HP @ wheels, LT1 265-285HP @ the wheel, LS1 300-330HP @ the wheels with ADVERTISE power rating the GM LT1 300HP and LS1 350HP.
Also for anybody who ask the WS6 2001 cost around 32k the anniversary cost 37k so the TA would have been in the same price range as the others.
And I believe the HP is about the same if not THE SAME :)
the firebird is the best car here by far
Sigh not only is that so FAR from the truth, Firebird got discontinued for poor sales in 2002 not only that they don't even make Pontiac brand anymore and that says a lot
+Keyboardwarrior1990 The trans am firebird was more expensive of the three so it did not sell well and Pontiac was shut down because of the the Gm Government bailout
Yea that was particularly why and the fact that GM thought could solve a sales problem by simply throwing HP at it
No it doesn't...rumor is that the Firebird is COMING BACK....as a BUICK !!
SALES have NOTHING to do with whether a car is BETTER.
The Firebird clearly WON this competition. But FORD and CHEVY are BIGGER COMPANIES with bigger advertising budgets. They clearly PAID for these results.
Don't understand how the TA could have been last? I guess because its a convertible and not a T-top??? As someone mentioned in the comments, my TA is a 2000 and even to this very day ALOT OF PEOPLE give me very good comments about my car. Also, its very true that I do get a lot of comments from HOT GIRLS!!
I do to but mostly hot milfs!
WS6 for the win.... I could care less what these guys un the video have to say.... if you know.... then you know
It's funny now that everyone wants a fourth gen firebird
I played hell finding mine. but the firebirds are gonna be worth more than the camaro's because the Birds aren't made anymore so everybody and their brother wants one. I still think the Trans Am beats the other two though
+amikepugh89Ford me too. I have a 97 formula hard top
the 4th gen Camaro styling has not aged well.
@@davidgalinat4257 agreed, I had a 4th gen camaro and one thing for sure they look very dated. I own a 4th gen T/A and it still has a great look to it.
Trans Am is the best looking, especially when it's all blacked out.
That’s what my grandparents have, all blacked out
Thank you for you comments.
Of course, the 4-valve design is inherently superior because of flow efficiency. On the other hand, GM has optimized the 2 valve configuration.
Other Facts:
1. Corvette offered the LT5 4 valve engine [Lotus designed] from 1990 to 1995. Production of about 7,000 units.
2. Nurburgring Records have been held by ZR1 [7:19] and Z06 [7:22] at various times. Both are 2 valve designs.
3. Even with 662 hp, the Shelby still can not equal speed of Z06 & ZR1.
TRANS AM the best
I'm a working dad living in the suburbs, my wife is a soccer mom. I prefer the look of the Trans Am. This video is just 3 guys' opinion.
I'd still take the trans am over the mustang even tho I like that year mustang
I'm more of a fan of the Trans Am, but I love the looks of both of the F-bodies. The paint job on the Trans Am in this test is commemorative of the 1969 release of the Trans Am. Although back then you could get the Trans Am with the White/Blue stripe or Blue/White stripe paint.
I take the Firebird anyday, It looks like the 96 3000GT spider
The Trans Am is far better looking than either of the other two
The class action law suit was for the 99 Cobra. Ford claimed it made 320, but it only produced about 305.
i agree. although there was an $8k price difference, the base c5 was well worth the extra money. if you ask me, and i think a lot of people will agree, (with the exception of most ford fan boys, but they don't count anyway) vettes have been and will always be held in a higher regard than mustangs. they're not even in the same class. it's more well respected, i personally believe it looks better and is better quality, and i believe they were able to out perform the terminators on the track.
99 was a good year for me! The import and domestic scene were in full effect. I was only a kid but I seen it all
The Cobra retreated but his comeback in 2003 was the termination of all discussions
I'm a LT1/LS1 owner but the Terminator is my fav Ford muscle car.
Only because they stopped making the trans am and Camaro, but if GM would’ve dropped the LS6 in both those cars for 2003 and 2004, they would’ve been just as competitive against the terminator.
@@STILLNIGHTPEARL the ls6 is in some later model fbodys
The TA is best in my opinion and is also more rare than the other 2. I see camaros and mustangs everyday, but its rare that I see a TA or firebird. Thats why I love my formula, people don't see them often. Only downside is people always calling it a camaro lol.
exactly >.> Like bitch did you NOT see Trans Am when you walked by?
...and if anybody read the C and D magazine, the Cobra WAS, in fact, one of the vehicles with the unfinished intake manifold casting. Part of around a few thousand other Cobras that year that had the same issue.
I own a 30th anniversary TA and there is no comparison with the camaro or the mustang on this year!!! I'm a mustang lover and I own a 1973 Mach 1. You can park this cars side by side and the TA will always stand out of the crowd!!
I wonder how much money did Chevrolet gave to these people to say that the Camaro is the best over all car!!
Mustangs are almost over populated, you see them everywhere, don't be afraid to jump away from the crowd. Style wise 1. T/A 2. Mustang 3. Camaro. But you have to look at performance too.
TRANS AM is #1 !!!!
Obviously #3 dummy camaro is #1 and mustang #2 and it looks like a teenagers fave with the ugly blue wheels
***** you obviously aren't smart because I wasn't referring to the fastest just simply saying that the trans am got third place like they say in the video lol smh
*****
if you don't give a shit why are you wasting your time tough guy. Wow by your post you really are fucking stupid as hell, you're a dummy, deal with it.
***** Answer me you not smart idiot.
You must not know your numbers I clearly saw a A big 3 up there. Or in the words of Nelly 2 is not a winner and 3 nobody remembers
The HP rating of LS1s was false.
Most made 315RWHP stock
Putting them at the 350HP corvette mark.
RIGHT. Also, at the same time , it was revealed that FORD LIED about the MUSTANGS true output. That's why all the recalls ...and why FIREBIRDS and CAMAROS wasted it on the STREET.
williamg2552
Well ford didn't lie per say, but 1/2 of the v8 made about 25Hp less than others.
Why did the Trans Am have a quicker quarter and a higher top speed than the Camaro? I thought they were identical drive trains?
Dave L that's still a mystery lol. Considering the parts were 100% identical.
Dave L it's always been that way for some reason. The fastest stock fbody time recorded is also a Firebird. 12.8 in a Formula.
But I have a 2000 Trans Am WS6 6 speed... check my vids... and it is a piece of shit. Ford makes higher quality cars.
99 cobras were recalled for not making the factory claimed 320hp! Its very possible the engine was down 40-50hp from that!
sgfreak96 No...they were down about 20 rwhp (25ish crank). And the LS1 was underrated in the Camaro. Closer LS1 Corvette numbers in terms of rwhp. I've seen the recalled cars still get spanked on the tracks...at least until the Camaro bowed out in 02 and the supercharged Termi arrived in 03.
BEBNC1 I've heard of 99 cobras only making 280 in some cases. And yeah ls1 typically made around 320hp on occassion even though they were claiming 305hp. Chevy makes the better motor, ford makes the better car IMO.
sgfreak96
I think the Mustang had a better fit/finish (inside and out) back then...and seemed more for cruising. The Camaro had the better drivetrain. T56 and LS1 standard in the Z/28 for 20k...great deal back then that Ford couldn't touch. Both very reliable...but that 4.6 modular could be a pain to work on. Owned both. Great cars with big fun.
BEBNC1 Yeah the 5 speed in the mustangs sucked, especially on the highway. Not to mention the 2v 4.6 is the most lifeless engine ever. It has torque but really all it's good for is being loud if you put an exhaust on it. I've ridden and driven both alot as my one friend has an 01 stang and my other friend has an 02 35th anniversary camaro ss.
I agree those years sucked for mustang but they did look and sound nice
man this feels old school already.
I believe there was a recall on this mustang in particular because it was making the power advertised. I forgot what was wrong
No your right, that's why it made such crappy times on this video
In high school i had this issue featuring these cars on its cover. Awesome! I didn't think C/D videotaped this.
I have literally had all these cars... But I still have my TransAm all blacked out too... There is no way the TransAm got number three it was one of the hottest cars back then I remember, they were just really expensive$34,000 in 1999 is almost $50,000 in today's standard... You know Chevy and Ford paid for this commercial no doubt
Wasn’t there a recall on the 1999 cobra because the GT actually made more power?
No the GT didn’t make more power, but the cobras weren’t making what was advertised. So Ford recalled it and changed the intake, ECU tune, and some exhaust to actually get it to 320 crank hp.
These old videos are awesome haha.
These 4th gen Camaros are awesome. More than respectably fast, handle great and return unbelievably good fuel efficiency. Love that car
camaro. ss. 💪💪👍👍👌👌😍😍
what a load of crap the TA IS BY FAR the best one. The camaro looks hideous and no body wants one now a days and the cobra if it isn't the 03-04 terminators are shit. The TA is going up in value also while the non terminator and camaros can be found now for pennies
Eidrian111 So a 2000 Cobra R is "shit"? Rated at 385 hp and they actually dyno'd over 370 to the wheels, built for the track...? Funny how everyone forgets about those
SqueakyFeet The '00 R's were over 70k with mark up and ran low 13s. Nothing special.
Jamien Moore ET is mostly about traction. They trapped 110+ mph, and that's with a 4th gear 1:1 ratio and 3.55's out back, not great for acceleration. Car was easily capable of 11's @ 115+ mph with just drag radials and gears, but that's really beside the point. It was a corner carver too.
11's with Dr's and gears? No way! The fastest 1/4 mile time ever recorded in a '00 R was in the mid to high 12's driven by Evan Smith in negative DA. A few mags got high 12's, most owners averaged bottom 13's. Of course these cars were setup for a road course and not a quarter mile track, but my point is, it will take more than a tire and gear to put one into the 11's.
Okay? Well congratulations on your succefful google search, but it's a well-known fact among Mustang guys that a sticky tire will drop over a half second off a Mustang's ET. Stock 2011+ 5.0 runs 12.6-12.7 stock, will cut a 12.0 flat with just DR's. Stock Boss 302 runs 12.3 stock and 11.70's on DR's. So it only makes sense that a Cobra R, which already traps 110+ mph with "somewhat decent" gearing and a bunch of wheelspin for the first two gears would be very much capable of an 11 seoncd pass without any engine mods, just tires and gears....all of these cars have similar power..
Which one of these engines can handle more power, also boost friendly
I’d say cobra cause that’s all I know.
They did, and the Camaro still beat the Cobra. They reran this test a couple of more times through 2002. I remember reading the test of the SS and WS6 versus the Cobra from 2001 in which the Camaro was the fastest, Trans Am second, and Cobra was far behind. The '93 and the '03/'04 Cobras are the only impressive ones. A friend of mine thought his '94 was badass until I ran neck and neck with my '98 Firebird V6/A4. And I did manage to beat another '94 with the same Firebird.
They should have used the TA and camaro with t-tops. Convertibles are hideous on any car.
G11B Thats exactly right! Looks better and handles higher speed better.
I read this issue in my freshman year of high school. T/A only lost because it was expensive, tacky and didn't handle as well on the track.
Still shake my head at this. Chevy definitely had these guys in their pockets. We all know that the T/A was fudging the horsepower truth by dittoing the Chevy ratings. I've had variations of all three of these and, convertible handicap aside, the '98-'02 Trans Am WS6 crushes its Chevy sister and every Mustang up to that point. MotorWeek got it right over Car & Driver. Oh yeah, another dirty secret was that the electronically controlled automatic was 0.5 sec. faster both 0-60 and 1/4 mile.
Pontiac wasn't kidding when they said "We Build Excitement". Even Fieros with a 3800 Series crushes all Corvettes. You can see why GM killed the third highest selling automotive brand in 2010
Agreed. Trans Am and GTA Firebirds always blew Mustangs out of the water and both the Camaro and Firebirds toted the Corvette engine, but excelled in handling like the Fiero did with the GT's.
Not exactly. My 02 GT has the intercooled terminator S/C. The motors themselves are good to about 400 HP, give or take. I've had it for a long time. Well over 10k miles. Last time I checked (I work in a garage too) my motor is absolutely fine. It's just how you run it, and how often.
"softer suspension settings" in the T/A ... BS. I owned a 99 WS6 and SS, and the WS6 was easily stiffer off the factory floor. However, they were right in indicating it garnished more attention.
That's what I'm saying! The 88 Formula I had also came with the WS6 Suspension and it could handle better than anything I saw at the time. I would be willing to bet that the T-tops version w/ the weight reduced from it would out perform the SS if not stay right with it. Firebirds got a TON of attention back in the late 90's and early 2000's.
Man, weird to see Don Schroeder. RIP. Awesome driver and journalist.
the GT was said to out run the Cobra, owners were pissed...there supposedly was a small recall for the intake & exhaust to uncap the horsepower but it was still slow until the Terminator rolled in ‘03, by that the f-bodies had went on a hiatus. the Terminators would annihilate anything f-body stock.
In 99 the cobra put out way less power than rated. I recall them blaming it on some exhaust manifolds or something. Think it was part of the reason there was no cobra in 00 outside of the R version. They supposedly remedied the problem in the 01 models.
i love how they get the anniversary edition trans am and then penalize it for the price. although even in regular form it would still be slightly more expensive than the ss. also i'm pretty sure the suspension is identical on both f-bodys.
I just like talking to people who know ther stuff! which is your favorite srt. charger srt8, cheroke str8,300c srt8 ,ram srt10,viper srt10,crossfire srt6,magnum srt8,or neon srt4
GM did experiment with supercharged Gen 3 engines that used the standard bottom end. They just didn't implement them because of the cost. Even the LSA in the ZL1 and CTS-V only has a forged crank, not rods or pistons. An LS1 will handle a blower no problem as long as you set it up properly. The hardest part of a blower on an F-body is clearance.
Where was Dodge when GM and Ford had these bad-ass cars!!!
They said the Camaro had better styling/and looked as if it were going 100mph standing still..really are they blind, I'd miss the Camaro going by it's so plain looking, the TA always has looked better in all years ..it just looks badass.
I've seen stock LS1's running on 7-8 psi with no problems. The stock bottom ends have been proven to more than 600 hp in turbo applications. A friend of mine had an LS1 GTO with a modified STS turbo kit, and nothing more than a cam, valve springs, new injectors, and tuning. The car made 600+ rwhp on pump gas for more than 4 years of extremely hard use, until he finally demodded and sold the car.
Ah yeah the good ol days. I had a 98' WS6 sebring silver t56 car. They weren't perfect but for the money the bang for your buck was there.
There are plenty of supercharger kits available for Gen 3 V8's, including the LS1. The LS6 has a little too high of compression for a blowe, but it's been done before. And what part of the LS1 will blow out with boost? Even the LSA can make in excess of 600 bhp, and the only difference between an LSA bottom end and LS1 bottom end is a forged steel crank. same type of rods and pistons as the LS1.
This must have been before the cobra recall
Even the recalled Cobra's were dyno'd and made 260rwhp. Now seeing a stock 99 GT only makes 260hp @ the crank, i find it highly unlikely GT's were beating Cobra's unless they were modified. The only complaints were people who owned 96-98 Cobra's and couldn't tell the difference in hp. After the recall the Cobra made 272rwhp and 320 @ the crank.
They must have tested a Cobra that didn't have "the fix". For those who don't know, when Ford came out with the new 99 Cobra. There were complaints that the new Cobras weren't making the advertised hp (320 at the crank). Dyno testing showed that the cars were barely making 300 hp.
After Ford was threaten with a class action lawsuit they came out with "the fix". The fix consisted of a new intake, new catback muffler system and a computer flash. This bought the car up to it's advertised hp rating. This is why there were no 2000 Cobras build.
You're right about the Cobra's being sold in Australia but that was in 2002 not 2000. I think they sold about 300 of them over there.
So how much horsepower was a 1999 Cobra actually making?
Quatermain98526 probably less than 300
@@mattcox3373 maybe even less than the 260 hp 2v gts at the time. Some pre recall 99s cobras dynoed 210-220 rwhp
youre right it was IRS in 1999. I remember once car and driver said the Mach1 was IRS when it was not.
Most people forget that the 99 Cobra HP wasn't 320, Ford recalled it due to it not even coming close to those numbers. I like the LS1 platform better, but the New Edge body looks better then the F body.
Just sold my 01 SS for a 14 Mustang GT w/trac pack. Miss the 01 but this new Stang is worlds better. Long live both the Camaro and Mustang. Oh yeah, owned a 95 Trans Am too :)
Camaro looks like a catfish. Mustang looks like a Barbie car built to human scale and the Firebird looks like a performance beast.
Sorry haters, LS engines are light weight, make good power even with small mods, easy to work on, reliable, plenty of aftermarket parts, get good MPG etc...
I had both 02 Firebird WS6 and 01 Camaro SS. The Firebird was superior in almost every way. The quality was truly better, especially the interior. It’s like Chevy put in zero effort and Pontiac went as far as to add round AC vents, much better looking HVAC control display, red interior lighting vs the SS’s piss yellow, nicer seats, higher quality materials and leather, much nicer gauges, even the shift display looked nicer. The styling was better IMO too but mine didn’t have those stripes, which is what puts the car on this episode over the top. They look way better without decals all over the place.
The thing I find amusing is that most people don't realize that the Cobra was produced as competition for the Corvette, not the F-bodies.
MAn this was must see tv back in the day! hot rod, C and D, and Trucks!!!
The mustang is still the best looking..I'll take the cobra..
Best-selling cars are often shit. The Mustang is an example
Lol coming from a Pontiac fanboy comical
Plastic is better than a plastic horse
+Keyboardwarrior1990 rofl yup.
i'd be pissed too if my brand was dead an ta was gone.
yep! I have this on tape
Agreed
@insatiableTy i didnt lie. i got the E/T slip right here. and no my car wasnt stock i was running a 75 shot of nitrous. funny thing is, the WS6 was running 100+ of nitrous. i dont have a video because i raced him almost 2 years ago in Kentucky at a Mustang Show in Somerset, KY. i yanked him out of the line and pulled him across the lights. sold the car shortly after to build a caged car to run low 5's in an 1/8th with a 347 stroker SBF.
You're forgetting the valvetrain geometry. 32 valves 4 cams vs 16 valves and 1 cam. They both get the job done in completely different ways. The dohc is taller and typically the same weight or heavier than the smaller compact pushrod plant. I personally love the brawny torque curve from the extra cubes underneath. I'd be disappointed to see GM abandon the pushrod powerplant because they've done more with it than anyone on the face of the planet.
Older video but I'm picking up an 01 this weekend and I believe they're just the much better car. They're not ragged out normally like a Terminator and they havent been mulletfied like the two F bodies.
just happened to notice I said L76 instead of lq4. The l76 replaced them and has aluminum block... just to clarify.
ford had a statement said the 99 cobras weren't producing what there was supposed to that's why they didn't make them in 2000 and went back make them in 2001
Hey man procharger makes a 8 psi kit for lt1 whit twin coolers to run reliable 450hp to 460hp on stock bottom end.
The more 'primitive" axle is typically better for acceleration. it's stronger and there's less wheel hop.this is why so many serious drag racers use a solid axle.
They shouldve gotten one without the limited edition graphics and wheels. That would bring the price closer. I love f-bodys. Camaros and trans ams. I own a 97z28 but i personally think the trans am is a more attractive car.
Ws6 by far
True, i didnt know how much hp the term had lol, well thats pretty damn impressive for a 4.6 props to that 'Stang
this video needs to be done again because the 99 cobra was overrated it was not making 320hp thats why they fixed them later on in 2000 and the 01 cobras were producing 320 from the factory the 0-60 times are 5.4 for my 01.
A $50 mod to the RamAir will make it even faster. Sure it’s not as good as the SS on the track but it’s more than competitive on the street
Trans Am is #1 I own 4 today.. 2 lt1 and 2 ls1 along with a ls1 Camaro lol... I love my f bodies haha
sell me an ls1 car i have a 96 z28 couldn’t find a ls1 t56 for a good price around here
What the video fails to mention is that convertibles are not very rigid and they have support beams to reinforce their structure. This makes them hundreds of pounds heavier and much less agile around corners.
its opinion. it was ranked 3rd because of the styling and cost. personally, I could never get into the style of the T/A, especially the rear end.
Ford fans are mad that the Camaro was better? Well that's an opinion. ... camaro fans are mad that the Mustang wiped the floor with the camaro in sales? That's a fact rofl
The reason was made clear in this test. The Mustang was CHEAPEST of the three. Cheaper means MORE SALES....NOT BETTER.
...And PONTIAC fans (like myself) , like the FIREBIRD T/A better than BOTH !!! As DODGE has proven (with the 707 HP Challenger HELLCAT) "IT AIN'T ALL JUST ABOUT FORD and CHEVY !!!"
williamg2552 I hope you're joking. Pontiac was a GM company. And it's a shame the trans am was less popular. but then again it would be fun to blow the doors off of an unsuspecting mustang.
camarojoe982 I'm well aware that Pontiac was a G.M. company. But, I'm also aware that FORD and CHEVY are the two LARGEST American manufacturers...and both boast a HUGE FAN BODY, who thinks that ANY MUSCLE CAR that is NOT a "Ford" or "Chevy" has little credibility, and SHOULDN'T be in the discussion . Sorry, I'm not buying it. PLYMOUTH, DODGE, PONTIAC, and even OLDSMOBILE and BUICK made MUSCLE CARS that were EVERY BIT AS GOOD (and in some cases BETTER),than ANYTHING that ever came down the pike from Ford and Chevy . Again, as I said before, "BIGGEST SELLER" doesn't always mean "BETTER"
williamg2552 lol the hellcats came at the end of a generation of mustang. Plus ford and GM aren't doing insane hp drag cars.. the z28 and even the new gt350 are track cars.. dodge is still stuck in the past.
Sir, you can look "Sophisticated" while I'm passing you on the free way in my Camaro.
I read that after an investigation, they found the engine was producing the advertised power on engine stand. But in car, the tail pipe, as it crossed over rear end, constricted exhaust flow enough to decrease power.
Whether that was really the cause, I don't know.
I have magazines from that time. I will check soon.
There there you go. Testing HP at the engine is much different than testing it after the flywheel, at the actual wheels. Not the same. They probably were advertising it as RW HP rather than BHP.
Trans am all day
i see where your comming from here but i want to point out. You can (pretty easily) drop the blower from the terminator cobras onto the GT. IT requires a new upper intake manifold but they are made by several aftermarket companies. the internals should be ok as long as the power is kept below 420crank hp. and under 440 crank ftlbstq. With a built lower end... skys the limit. The transmission is not a T5 either. ITs a T3650 which handles more power than the t 5/45. Just clarifying.
The claims of 320 hp for the 99 Cobra's were wrong, they had a big recall for that year and fixed the problem. After the recall the Cobra's made the 320 hp and ran the same times as the Camaro and Firebird.
Camaro looks like the Sebring.
The Camaro SS was an SLP upgraded car, which is why in handles better than the WS6 Trans Am. The Firehawks are the Equivalent of the Chevy SS, I believe the hood scoops are a little more functional in the Pontiacs the way the intakes are set up.
+clavo420 yea stop you dk what youre talking about
There's actually two different kinds of Camaro ss, there's this one where it's only making 320 hp and there's one like I have where it's making "345" and my car has the 1LE package and it handles a lot better than a regular Camaro ss, but not only that but ALL Camaro SS convertibles had the Z28 suspension and didn't have the same suspension like a couple