Paragliding Osterfelderkopf with too much wind - Föhn
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- "It is better to stay on the ground and wanting to be in the air than the other way around".
On one hand Alpine Foehn was forcasted, on the other hand not too much wind in the Garmisch area. I decided to give it a try... Every second of this flight was intense and I am glad that I was flying on my EN-A wing. Some lessons learned today.
As some people like to make accusations based on pure speculation I am adding additional statements:
- No, the purpose of this video is not to brag.
- Yes, I was aware of the forecasted Foehn, but not necessarily about the situation in the air at this time and location.
- No, most of the time I consider a lot more than simple black/white logic to decide if I get in the air on a specific day (for example "any kind of Foehn condition" equals "not flyable"). I can understand if people like to use simple rules to make their decisions easier and mitigate as much risk as possible. But maybe don't assume or even postualte your own approach as a general rule for others.
- Yes, in this case I made a wrong decision to fly. Though I am happy being able to have learnt a lot from this flight and the subsequent debriefings without consequences to my health that day.
0:00 Hike
0:28 Take off
1:32 First collapse
2:30 Kreuzeck
3:52 Second collapse
5:56 Flying backwards
6:25 Landing
Equipment:
Wing - Skywalk Masala 3
Harness - Skywalk Core
Camera setup - Skybean Chase XC & GoPro 11 
Спорт
I love the follow cam! But the only thing to learn from it is not to go flying when the Föhn is on.
After an apparrently bad take off decision, I think you managed the situation very well!
Awesome, exciting, wild, crazy. Breathe. Don't do that again.
Very informative. Learned a lot! Thank You!
Cool, dass du dieses abschreckende Beispiel eingestellt hast. Bei Föhn fliegen ist bekanntlich nicht ratsam.
Cool ist es nicht, lehrreich schon. Insgesamt kommt mir das Video etwas zu sehr als Husarenstück rüber, etwas Info, wie es zu der Fehlentscheidung zum Start gekommen ist und was er daraus gelernt hat, wäre toll.
Wenn dir da nicht der Arsch auf Grundeis geht:-)), aber Respekt an Rocky.
@@gonzothefirst3051 was er alles vorher falsch gemacht hat, sieht man doch. Sich weder über die Windsysteme vor Ort informiert, noch so richtig Meteobriefing gemacht.
@@Nordi1980 sehe ich genauso. Und dann noch "stolz" sein. Er kann sich freuen, dass nichts passiert ist. Und die Windsystem in GAP kennt er auch nicht. Am Osterfelder ist beim DHV eine explizite Warnung vor Föhnstarts.
@@thomaspoett868 Osterfleder ist vor allem Hochalpines Fliegen. Man sollte sich schon gut auskennen, bevor man sowas macht. Der Ehrwalder Kessel ist ja zusätzlich bekannt für sein durchaus sehr lebhaftes Talwindsystem.
Great camera angle to show how much fun it can be when it gets ugly in the air. Glad you are good at handling your wing 👍
Was thinking the same! Often GoPro footage from a helmet looks really gentle, compared to the memory of getting your arse spanked 🤣🤣👍⭐
This chase cam was perfect. Glad it didn't get tangled in your lines in that rough air
good lessons in this video thanks for sharing...
First of all, thank god you made it back to terra firma in one piece. terrible decision to start. the föhn diagrams for the alps are reliable and available. I assume you live in the area, so if its not flyable today, then bake a cake or something and go flying tomorrow! 😀. Hey Skywalk, what an promotion for the safety of the masala! 😀👍
Unfortunately, there's more too Foehn than just pressure differential, you can get really strong Foehn with 3 hPa and no Foehn with 8.
Holly Molly that's scary! Great handling 👍and I can imagine how relieved you were on the ground.
Wow. ein Lehrvideo!
Thx for sharing. Luckily for u the turbulens settled nearer ground. Nice video edit :) Big ears and bar might be good in situations like this. Say from 100m down to 25m in your case here. (until tings settled). Anyhow, happy to see you kept I cool and landed safe!
Great vid footage.
Seems like u made the right decisions after the initial bad one 😅
That gave me anxiety.. well done
Thank you for sacrificing yourself for us. Now I feel less sad about having to have stayed home in Munich that weekend, that would have ended worse on an EN-C wing
lol
Hast echt gute Nerven bewiesen!!! Hat sich wohl schon jeder gefragt, was denn wäre, wenn Föhn is. Etz wiss mas! Danke!
da ist glaube ich kaum Föhn, Wolkenbild sieht entspannt aus.
Thank you for sharing this video with us. It really wasn't an easy flight. Hats off to you!
I've learnt something again
I would like to share a few observations with you that I noticed and that you may have noticed too.
I noticed that you pull the steering line outwards with your long arm during take-off instead of pulling it straight down by the straps with your arm bent - see minute 0:31.
When landing, from around minute 6:09, you often pull the steering lines outwards instead of guiding them straight down along the harness. During turbulence, you support or stabilise yourself with the steering lines, which sends additional steering impulses to the glider. The positive thing is that you are well braced in the harness.
Tip: Observe the angle of the steering line below the pulley. Here you can see the triangle that forms or the angle to the steering handle.
My findings:
In both cases, you reduce your control over the steering lines and your control over your true steering path. When landing, you are still giving unintentional steering impulses. Guide the steering line along the harness and support yourself slightly. This allows you to sit securely in the harness and you have full control over the steering path.
You can also work with the trimmer when landing and possibly use the landing flat technique. This stabilises the wing and ensures that the angle of attack remains healthy and you stay in control.
Always happing landing
Danke für das ausführliche Feedback und die Tipps Ralf =)
Yes, I am aware about the long arms during takeoff and I am trying to lean in more to the front, get more of my weight lower in the harness and get the arms back and bent them. Definitely something to work on for the next groundhandling sessions :D
I just started to think about the unintended steering impulses due to the long arms as I was cutting the video. You are hitting a good point here. During my SIV we stabilized the (accelerated) one-sided collapses on the open side with bringing the arm and the elbow close to the harness and in that way keeping the body from totally tilting to the collapsed side. I guess I have to implement more of that approach into my regular flying style.
Regarding the topic 'landing with trimmer' : still on my bucket list to learn it... And I was really nervous about using the accelerator in these turbulent air if not absolutely necessary. Especially closer to the ground.
Except for launching with these conditions, great piloting and wing control.
Great job editing, Music was very good too. Happy you are landed safe and sound. Beautful place to fly. Your chase cam video really added to your video. Thanks for sharing. Subbed !!! Cheers Gerry 👍👍👍
Thank you for your feedback Gerry! 🤝
Отлично слетел бро 😎
wow! What a ride :) You wont forget that one for a while. Hope you had you brown underpants on that day. Good active flying in nasty conditions.
Underpants were totally soaking wet afterwards :P
You took off in a giant lee-rotor. 😮😂
That looked like fun 😂
I'm guessing,You must've not seen the weather forecast. You took care through out the flight. Good pilot. Careful next time. 😎✌
@AliBabaFlyHigh I was checking the forecast a lot actually and still went for it. I was not aware that the foehn was breaking through at this location. The wind at the take off has calmed down for 15min and I decided to fly. But I was actually just in a big lee zone the whole time. Big misjudgement of the local wind situation
Love the cam footage. I have looked through to see if you have said how you did it and cant see an answer. So what did you use? I am guessing a lond pole attached to your harness?
@@flyingmortgageman I recorded it with a so called chasecam & GoPro. You can just google for "Skybean Chase XC" that should explain it =)
Great job getting out of that situation! How does the follow cam work??
Look up the "Skybean Chase XC" =)
Are you sure about the date (24th of April)? Neither the forecast nor the data from the wind-stations showed Föhn on this date, but strong westerly winds.
You are right the date was wrong in the description. The flight was on May 1st, this year!
Thanks! No blaming here, but the nearby Windstations on that day and 1 hour ahead of your flight showed already gusts of up to 76km/h (Grubigstein), the station on the Wank up to 35km/h etc, with very varying and therefore „föhnig“ behaviour (I think I found your OGN/FANET Track on Burnair, which indicates you started at around 15:33).
Nevertheless, thanks for posting this video and sharing your insights & safe flights!
Yes, that should be me at 15:33. I was thirsty for flying after a lot of non flyable days, lost a lot of time due to different circumstances until I was finally on top and was observing the borderline conditions for 30mins before it seemed to calm down... In the end still a wrong decision to fly, but fortunately got away with some lessons without hurting myself.
Thanks for realeasing this video! Do you think big ears would have stabilized the decending over the valley?
I was talking with an experienced tandem pilot at the landing site who was apparently watching me a bit over the landing site and he proposed the exact same thing to me. I never tried big ears as a measure of stabilization, only had it in mind as a decend technique.
Maybe other more experienced pilots can comment on this topic?
@@RockIceAir I learned that in the past and also flew in turbulence when I wanted to go down: big ears and using the accelerator to compensate for the increased angle of attack. This is a very stable flight condition
@@RockIceAir Beim schauen des Videos hab ich mich gefragt wäre es nicht besser die Ohren zu ziehen... war ein Bauchgefühl und hätte ich über den Tal vielleicht mal probiert. Danke Euch für die Bestätigung!!
@RockIceAir Been flying for 10 years, 7 years in the Bavarian/Austrian alps. Yes big ears followed by speed like the other said would have saved you from a couple of collapses. Lucky the Talwind wasn't too brutal here, it usually is at this landing field.
Badassery
Fliege nie bei Föhn. Niemand, absolut niemand hat kann voraussagen wie und wann der Föhn aktiv ist und durchbricht. Aber der Pilot hätte schon an den zerfetzten Kumuli sehen sollen, das der Föhn bereits stark in der Höhe ins Tal greift.
Thanks for posting! I flew this area over 42 years ago, when paragliding started out. Great seeing my old stomping grounds. Still flying all these years later, but now in B.C. with a Geo6 and a Flare Moustache. Good times! Luckily we don't have the "Foehn" conditions here in British Columbia. Keep it safe and happy flying!
Can't imagine how it was in the old days. Must have been a lot more risky than nowadays.
Where do you fly in BC?
@@RockIceAir I agree, the wings have improved so much. I mostly fly in the Interior in BC. We have several sites around Williams Lake and Sabina near Kamloops has a great site. Now that I also have a Flare Moustache I have a lot more options.
How is this video being recorded?
With a chasecam + GoPro. You can google for "Skybean Chase XC"
"Das, was wir machen, ist eine ziemlich absurde Tätigkeit. Ist es nicht völlig absurd, dort hinzugehen, wo man umkommen könnte, um nicht umzukommen? Die Kunst dabei aber ist, nicht umzukommen! Diese Kunst, nicht umzukommen, wiederum ist nur eine Kunst, weil man dabei umkommen könnte. Es ist doch ganz einfach: Sonst wäre es kein Grenzgang ... Wenn ich zurückkomme, zuletzt nicht dabei umkomme, habe ich einen Grenzgang hinter mir. Und erlebe das als Wiedergeburt."
Reinhold Messner
These: Ein jeder soll frei sein diese Grenze so schraf wie er will zu erfahren, oder niemals. Wissend was er tut, oder nicht.
Hey RockyGratulation, Du bist am Leben ! Wenn Du das Wort Föhn hörst, oder die Möglichkeit Föhn, oder Föhn bereits da ist - Flieg nicht !
do you fly accelerated with brakes??
50% accelerated (variating with one leg) and under these turbulent conditions: yes
Speedbar + Bremsen gleichzeitig machen den Schirm zusätzlich instabil und klappanfällig, weil so das Schirmprofil stark deformiert wird. Ist nicht empfehlenswert. Fliegen lassen, wenn du in Speedbar bist und nur kurze Bremsimpulse bei starken Nickbewegungen würde ich empfehlen
Yeah - it's either accelerator *or* brakes... Not both at the same time (you're asking for a massive frontal collapse if you do - trust me, I race an Enzo3 and you really want to avoid that experience, especially in a nasty Föhn washing machine).
Adding brakes while on the Speed Bar causes the wing's nose to pitch further forward/down - often blowing the wing up quite spectacularly!
saw that as well and got quite scared for you as there are so many more options to control your wing with speed bar, eg use b/c-steering and go on full bar, usually pretty stable. as the others recommended, brakes + speedbar really bad idea. also if you want to fly föhn conditions in garmisch, go to wank. if its not flyable there on south föhn, its nowhere. wank is way less prone to any lee, but the osterfelder is pretty much the worst lee rotor side for south föhn, since there is the massive wetterstein ridge providing for heavy turbulences...
Thank you all for the constructive feedback =)
jeder wie er es braucht.. bei fön is quasi als würdest in einen wildwasserbach springen bei hochwasser.. aber gut gekämpft! respekt! wer dumme entscheidungen trifft, sollte genug können u verstand haben um zu überleben aber oft würde ich dir das nicht empfehlen😂🍺✌️
lucky guy------
we where flying a glider competition during this time. We had so much fun, 4 days of medium Föhn. I can really recommand switching to something with a "hard wing" during these days:
ruclips.net/video/Y-HpCf0xAlk/видео.html
I also think there are places where you can fly during these weak Föhn conditions with Paragliders. Quite smooth is for example Stoderzinken. Also not much turbulence at the Kaiser.
Can't do hike and fly with the gliders unfortunately 😅
so how brown were your underpants after that one?
@@obi.wan_canopy 💩
I flew there several times... Dont get me wrong, but if you want to continue this Sport, and especially your life, dont start on alpine places like that in these conditions... Its part of the Zugspitzmassiv, so you should expect heavy condiotions any time... There are a lot of other and safer flying spots around, and i think, you even know that yourself!
Danke für das Video. Kannst du bitte den Hersteller und das Modell von deinem Helm nennen? Sieht gut aus 👍Ist dein Gurtzeug Crouise oder Brezze?
Klar, der Helm ist ein "Ski Trab Attivo", eigentlich ein Skitouren/Bergsteigen Helm, nehm ich manchmal auch für meine Hike & Flys. Gurtzeug in diesem Flug war das Skywalk Core
Its nuts with a hangglider, which usually wont collapse. But with a Paraglider its totally nuts. If the air would be visible as water, it looks like a storm flood with foamy big waves...go for a swim? Glad you are safe.
Intentionally take off AND fly in the lee, well, if you like it. 🙄😆
You knew what you were doing. - I flew in the windward direction, which was also "interesting" ruclips.net/video/bpxTrxCCiCc/видео.html
Bumpy yes. But Föhn? Telling from the clouds not a lot.
The cloud coverage indeed does not look like (high) Föhn, but this is not always a guarantee. The uploader corrected the date of the flight to the 1.05.24, which was clearly föhnig, both the weather forecasts as well as the windstations showed strong and gusty winds for that region. Maybe even mixed with thermals. Anyways, even without Föhn one must always expect turbulent conditions in this specific valley, especially in the afternoon.
Zur Bestätigung nochmal: Flugtag war der 1.Mai. Je nachdem wen man fragt haben wir jetzt Aussagen über die volle Bandbreite von "absoluter Föhntag" über "föhnig" zu "kein Föhn, ist nur ruppig". So mehrdeutig war ungefähr auch meine Analyse als ich mich entschieden habe an dem Tag zu starten. Wie auch immer, am Ende waren die Bedingungen eigentlich über meinem Skill Level.
@@tillkeyling5343 right, in the video it just looking a bit bumpy
@@RockIceAir Druckdifferenz und die nahgelegen Messtationen an "Problempunkten" helfen da bei der Startentscheidung.
Natürlich ist es auch stark von Topographie etc abhängig. Wir fliegen öfter in den Bayrischen Alpen bei 6hPa noch entspannt (meist aber mit der Option sich im Zweifel ins Flachland blasen zu lassen :D ).
Und eines ist klar. Wenn man sich nicht sicher ist, startet man nicht.
Wem das noch Spaß macht ... ruclips.net/video/xp_EkFTVfuc/видео.html ... dem ist auch nicht mehr zu helfen. Wobei durch die Verfolger Kamera die Sache stark dramatisiert wird.
Wenn du des Englischen nicht mächtig bist hier eine Kurzzusammenfassung auf Deutsch: Es hat keinen Spaß gemacht.
Everyone knows NOT to fly in Föhn conditions.
Really this makes me annoyed watching. I did paragliding for 20+
Give back your license immediately!
@@thomaspoett868 I have a life hack for you: don't waste your time and energy watching things that annoy you.
@@RockIceAir putting yourself on risk like this is annoying.
1. Check flight conditions - you didn’t
2. Check your area and get in case infos from locals
You even didn’t do any of those and it’s a legal requirement. Everyone know the landing conditions around Wank/ Osterfelder because of the wind system in GAP valley. Even this you ignored. And than being proud showing of this video
At least you should have been honest with a review of all the mistakes you made
@@thomaspoett868 How the fck do you want to know what I did or did not do in preparation on this day? You are accusing me with a lot of things without knowing anything about me or my reasons.
Go and fight your social justice wars on X/Twitter, I am sure there happend enough in the last 24hours that needs your "qualified" comments.
Looks like having no idea about wind systems...ar just an bastard adrenaline junkie...
It was quite a ride, Bro. What flying camera do you use?
Camera is a GoPro 11 with Skybean Chase XC mount