I’m an airline pilot. Storms definitely do not come out of nowhere. No storm never, ever comes out of nowhere. Every weather phenomenon has a cause. Those clouds were telling you a story loud and clear, but you were not paying attention. I am willing to wager you never examined the weather charts, or even called a flight weather station. This is why you incorrectly thought it came out of nowhere. I am glad you made it down. Hope you learned a lesson. The next storm might not be so mild. If you don’t know, don’t go.
I was up on a mountain in the desert and a storm "came out of nowhere". Very dangerous, lots of lightning, and I was only about 300 feet from the summit. Luckily I spotted a cave, made a beeline for it, and waited out the storm inside the cave behind a boulder. It's true, I got into a very dangerous situation because I wasn't paying proper attention to the weather.
@@Skank_and_Gutterboy Bro come on now, we're not talking about being on foot and getting "'surprised" by a storm, we're talking about people than went FLYING without looking at the wheather charts that 100% told them with 0 margin of error that a huge storm was getting closer, and that HOURS before they even took off. The only reason "the storm came outta nowhere" for you is that you had no radar equipement, no reason to look for weather and a false sense that you shouldnt expect rain in a desert (which is actually very common and not rare at all).
@Jerry Polverino Yeah, you're right. I haven't got the meteorological training of a professional pilot but even I can see that the sky looks dodgy, on my little 5 inch screen. Lived in Cham for years and this is typical behaviour, especially by "les anglais" (et je parle en tant que rosbif 😉). Whether it's paragliding, ski-ing, snowboarding, climbing... Not having a go at the guy, I've done some stupid shit myself 🤡
@@philmckenna5709 We all have, and that includes airline pilots like myself. Stay humble. Stay alert. Always have a back up, alternative plan, another option. Always, the best plan is to check first and if you do not know for sure just stay on the ground, so you live to fly another day. Take care
Just my 2 cents guys: - the big storms like this don't come "out of nowhere" in the Alps, like you said, storms like this are on the forecast and on the radars 100%. - first time in a new spot, with a sky like this, never take off, never. - none of you mastered a spiral or real descent techniques, a medium spiral goes down 10/12 m/s, a big one down to 20 m/s, on your vario I was reading -2.5 m/s. - your instructor on the radio had to push you harder and faster on the ground in my opinion tho. (even if he wouldn't let you take off). - for sure a very big lesson for you guys, very happy everyone is safe!!! Thanks for sharing!
Hi Andrea, I am skydiver and mountaineer, never flown a paraglider, Firstly I know the alpine weather all to well so I wouldn't jump in this, especially around Chamonix, but if I did, id know how to get down fast. I could front and rear riser turn and take out 1000s of feet fast, is there alot of difference with a paragliding wing?
@@paulhoulden Hi man, I don't know what you mean with "front and rear riser turn", but I imagine is kind of a deep spiral, strong G forces and going down fast, very fast. You need to train this and make sure your body support this, it's hard to keep a deep spiral for 30 sec or more, black out risk is very high...
You are right, Andrea, storms don't come out of nowhere in the mountains. Just like on the prairies of the Midwest, they form when the conditions are right-sometimes suddenly.
@@gala021 okay, so with a parachute, you can turn using toggles, or you can grab the whole riser (like 5 lines), riser turns are alot more aggressive and like you said, you can blackout. If you have a minute just youtube swooping, you get the idea of what I'm talking about, but you can descend like 800ft in seconds for example!
I had an awesome instructor who I'll never forget, Adam Nienkemper and when you're learning you just want to fly, no matter what! Adam said "It's always better to be on the ground wishing you were in the sky then being in the sky wishing you were on the ground"!!! :)
"Breaking out the spiral" at first I was confused, then I started laughing. That's not a spiral ,buddy, that is a flat thermaling turn. Glad you are safe.
There are two kinds of spins. The usual one is a stall, and when it is asymmetrical you will end up spinning and this way you literally fall down. The other one you still have normal control, for it is not a stall, it's the opposite, airspeed is far too high, during cornering that is dangerous: G-forces are quickly going up. This is a true spiral. Maybe somebody was confusing the names of spinning down. I don"t know what happens to a paraglider, when airspeed gets higher and higher and higher, during a high G turn. Does it collapse? Does it tear apart? Does it simply refuse to go any faster? Fixed wing airplanes break, the wings say BANG and they are gone. You'd better be aware of this kind of spiral.
@@voornaam3191 A spiral in a paraglider is what you described for the second option. Except it is not a spin. It is a stable maneuver. The airspeed is high, the g forces are very high, the direction of travel is straight down. The pilot will pass out long before a paraglider could suffer any damage. All wings are certified to handle at least 9G. Also it will not collapse, as the internal pressure is very high and the wing is very rigid. A spiral can be used to get down quickly. I think this pilot knows what a spiral is, he just did not do it nowhere close to steep enough to be even called a spiral.
This anxiety I have right reminds of the time I watched Paraglider head down into the St Clair River Michigan over on the American side, i am on Canadian side. I was horrified beyond belief. I grabbed my phone and typed in 911 and fully expected to have to press Send . But what seemed to be the last minute he swooped back up over the riverbank treeline to safety . That was as intense as this flight.
after 23 years of Paragliding - there has been a couple flights where I wished for the ground - Cloud suck is terrifying and has claimed many PG pilots. Sometimes the excitement of flying or the time spent to be at the site can over ride the decision to fly - fortunately these days I can drive all day to a flying site and if I dont like whats developing I can pack up and head to the pub - this is Feel is the greatest accomplishment in Paragliding. The ability to walk away. Great upload btw
Thanks for sharing the video. It’s always helpful to learn from others’ experience. Let me share some observations from my point of view as an instructor, which most likely overlap with other existing comments: - The weather forecast and local observations prior to launching should have suggested locally strong lift and chance of rain. Make sure to study the weather report carefully, especially in the mountains. - As other said: try to escape from the lift. It was obviously local lift, namely close to the mountain and underneath the clouds. Identify areas where you expect less lift, e.g. out in the valley where the sky looked clear, and fly there fast. - I would have suggested you to use your speed bar and no big ears at the beginning to advance as quickly as possible. There was no imminent risk of entering the cloud (at least judging from the video) so no need to descend immediately. - Think of it: when thermaling, you try to stay in rising air. When getting down, do the opposite. - Only when you are in an area with less lift initiate your descent maneuver (unless imminent risk of entering the cloud). - Another reason to move into the valley before descending is the terrain: the valley straightens below/behind you where the highway goes through. Means: valley wind is stronger there; no landing options behind you. - Shift your focus away from the planned landing field and search for a better alternative, e.g. out in the valley (as the instructor on the radio suggests). The landing field to which you actually return is in the unwanted lift region. In fact, before going back there, you were in nice descending conditions, while you had nasty lift during your approach. Airliners divert when an airport is not safe to land at … - Beware that your spiral was very docile. An effective spiral should dive much faster. - Regarding the spiral: I would suggest to not look down to the ground below you (as it seems from the video), but out to the lower wing tip. You are less likely to get sick and you can see the horizon as reference. - When doing big ears, also apply speed bar. It increases sink rate and makes the angle of attack smaller again (remember: big ears increase the angle of attack), so the aerodynamic configuration of the wing is better. This is especially important in rain when the wing is wet and more prone to stalling. - Release any wraps on the brake handles to apply as little brake as possible while on big ears (angle of attack). - By the way: you get a nice descent rate on big ears when additionally applying full bar and inducing a rolling motion by weight shifting your body. Good alternative to a spiral if that’s not (yet) your cup of tea. Ask your instructor to practice that - it’s fun. Again, thanks for sharing and enjoy flying. Cheers
Interesting your comment on where to look when in deep spiral, I personally find looking down and spotting the point on the ground I'm spiralling round works for me 👍
thanks for those great tips! :) as a beginenr pilot I have learned them all from my instructor, espacially the last one since spirals are really nothing one teaches a beginner but this technique saved my ass at leats once, getting greater sinking rates than fellow pilots in their nit very steep spirals :) I strongly recommend to practice those (not nessesarily wing over but at least weight shifting), as it also is a great way to get out of trouble whenin big ears or problems with the wing itself greetings from germany
I think you've heard all the criticism I could give, I just wanna say it's great that you put up the video from your mistakes so people can learn from it. Thank you. Our community is not good enough at doing that, for fear of losing face. Also, if you're ever in Germany, Switzerland, or Austria, they have a few G-force trainer centrifuges where you can reeally learn to spiral at (and over) your limits. And it's great fun, too.
Probably heard that one before but in case you don't know, when you catch the elevators/lines to do ears, you can start by twisting them upside down, that way you get a palm more worth of ears, but most importantly they become way easier to hold as you don't need to hold pressure with your fingers to get enough friction, just to hold the hand down. And also take gloves
First thing I would have done- ears, and full bar toward the edge of the cloud. Then you can spiral so much more effectively or maybe not even have to.
A good lesson to have shared Gerry, well done. The level of instability would certainly have shown up in the flying forecasts - look up Tephigrams / Skew T plots and get someone to explain - they look complicated, but don't lie to you! Second, you all seemed a bit wary of pulling a full (nose down) spiral dive. Either you haven't trained for them yet or, like me, you hate the high Gs - but my fear of not being able to descend quickly near clouds like that is 10x greater. A little trick with a pod harness is to open up the front flap, bend the knees to open up its' mouth' as you go into the spiral and it will balloon open - keep it that way - the extra drag is enough to significantly reduce the G's, and maintain a high descent rate continuously until 100m or so off the deck. My guess is you'd have been out of the poo within 5 mins not 25 - and as others have said, push away from the lift on full bar.
Glad it was a happy ending. I’ve had similar experiences in Piedrahita and Turkey. Big ears with speed bar, B-Line stalls, prolonged spiral dives - I’ve had it all..! I would have been reluctant to launch on the occasion you flew. Thanks for sharing.
@@AnilTAN launched off Babadag then over the back against a range of mountains to the NE. Big CB sitting at the end of the valley led to a backwards landing in a gust front. Turkey is amazing!
Everyone here is talking about spiral dives and other options to try and escape the cloud suck. The best way I learned to escape cloud suck in situations like this it to hike down and not launch in the first place when the sky is ODing like that. (Not saying that knowing how to descend quickly isn't a good skill to have, but having the mindset to decide not to fly into/launch in sketchy conditions like this is the best way to stay safe)
That's á key point... decision making... descent techniques could fail... storms can bring bolts and strong gust... it's always better to redrawn than put all in... the mountain certainly will be there tomorrow...
@@Hemersonr I spent a few seasons climbing in that area. According the the SAR guys, the Japanese had a FAR higher accident rate than anyone else... Why? Because they would always push on regardless and never turn back - they saw bailing out as a stain on their club and their country. Not a healthy attitude. The Alps are big and scary. When they turn bad, the turn REALLY bad. They deserve our respect. I once spent an evening in a hut with a well known female guide. She boasted that she had never spent an unplanned night on the mountain, while most of her male colleagues had experienced all kinds of epics. She said it was simply because she always consulted the Swiss AND the French AND the Italian weather forecasts, and kept to the valley if there were any significant doubts. Flyers would do well to learn from her...
A suggestion and a question from me… I had a similar situation when I flew with my teacher and I was stuck high above the landing with a storm coming in. In retrospect I should not have launched but anyways I did not master the spiral and I felt stuck and was scared. My teacher had me do the big ears and spiral with the ears. It was actually much less G force than spiral and you lose easily 20 m/s also the wing is very loaded it feels quite smooth and stable. Is that a technique I can keep in case I need or is there a reason other pilots have such a strong preference for a spiral?
as a 20000 hr airline pilot, not a paraglider, I have much respect for these kind of conditions. Even with a 200 to 300 ton aircraft I am reluctant to mess with these CB’s. The updraughts and downdraughts can be quite formidable. You can see the weather building up quite easily. My two cents; stay away from these conditions.
Reminds me a bit of my 3rd day in the alps with my new license. The foehn started and everything was climbing. I was in big ears for about 15 min sometimes with some climb left. Lesson learned. When there is a foehn starting and even mentioned in the forecast, don't go out flying or if you do, go for a top landing where there is no influence of the wind in the valley.
pilots never practice spiral dives so when they need it its new to them with a proper spiral dive (facing the planet) he could of been on the ground around the 8 min mark
@@m118lr it take some getting used to because you start spining fast you pull around 4 g the more you pull that inner brake the more your going to spin fast the more the glider is going to place itself facing the ground and you rush toward the ground at around 20m/s vertical speed ..the ground is spining looking at it to long will make most disy add the fact that your pulling 4 g and rushing the ground at 20m/s ...yes i would say it take some getting used to and you have to get used to getting out of this maneuver to ... here is what a spiral dive should look like ruclips.net/video/Non7rpL8HDo/видео.html
@@jimmymarois5086 B Stall ve Full Stall çöküş oranları ortalama ne kadar? Spiral gerçekten rahatsız edici. G-Kuvveti ve rüzgar sesi, iplerin ıslık çalışı. Spirali hiç sevmiyorum.
@@KorayU. spiral is the fastest way to go down you can exceed 20m/s full stall your at about 6m/s ..learning to spiral dive could save your life one day
Hey Bro…. I live and fly in this place and please some things….. your mistake began an 1 minute where you started turning …… then what you are calling a spiral is thermaling ….. in this conditions please always use 100% of your speedbar and not only half of it…… big ears with full speedbar and keeping the direction where you can see the blue sky is the only option….. there is no other possibility…. Stay safe ❤
All those days wishing for more lift then too much lift. Well done for coming down safely. I been there. Luckily it was a rc glider and I was on the ground and glad I was. Hats off to u for keeping cool and doing all the right things 👍👍
Nice video, thank you for posting. Also you're talking about it: I can't see any big ears and spiraling. Only small ears and flat circling. Glad you had a happy landing!
Great that you share this so hopefully others can learn. Pilots need to respect the weather especially in big mountains. I never forgot flying in Bassano years ago all the local pilots took one look at the weather conditions and obviously the clouds and all decided it was a day to drink coffee yet all the visiting pilots were having a terrible time trying to get down , I sat with the Italian's watching pilots landing in what turned out to be a torrential downpour.
If locals stay on ground, never try to fly! Check weather before every start. Don't, simply don't go to the starting field and start directly, just take at least 10-30min to check the condition and other gliders. If there are no others and you are a non professional don't start. And, take an SIV! This year second time at lac d' Annecy.. Spirals (real ones) is in the beginning a little terrifying but if it worked out you can go by 15m/s down or even faster.
Those spirals were a tad lackluster. A nose down is not particularly pleasant but I would personally be more afraid of those clouds than giving myself whiplash from five mins of 4g's
I'm conflicted... That awesome video kinda makes me want to paraglide and kina makes me never to be near one... Thanks for sharing and glad you all walked away!
In big mountains on higher aspect ratio wings & 2-liners I always felt much more relaxed when flying with an Ozone Anti-G drogue chute; you get massive sink rate in the spiral-dives with very little G-force. Makes it very easy to get on the ground very quickly.
Got my license and bought my wing. On the second flight I took off with a storm approaching, I believed the certified instructor and many veterans there that it is safe to dash it to the LZ. Boy were they wrong, got hit by a wind so quick it pushed me into a mountain (with full speed on I was still going backwards fairly quickly) and as I was 120m in the air I got hit by a massive squall which crumpled my EN-A wing like someone crunching a paper bag. I immediately threw a reserve and was hanging at the worst spot in between trees in a forest for an hour before I was found (I luckily had a radio on me, but left my phone in the back). I was never in such panic, pain, and close to passing out (funnily enough you know when you are about to pass out even if it's your first time google harness syndrome). Luckily my friends pumped my legs with a help of a ladder and later the local fireman who are much accustomed to this took my wing and reserve out of the tree with zero damage. Flew the next day just to make sure I don't grow fearful of flying. These things are no joke and I am never going up there when I see storm and hear the characteristic storm wind currents blowing through the trees. To this day I am not sure if I could have done anything better (beside not taking off), but the sight of a guy in front of me about to land be picked up like a crumpled tissue and tossed 80 degrees left and almost vertical once the gust hit him and then tossed about I something I won't ever forget. I will never play russian roulette with nature again.
Full bar straight to the edge of the cloud would be the proper response. Not big ears that slow your ground speed and keep you under the cloud longer. My anxiety went to 100 watching this.
This is the way.... So early into the video I would have headed for the mini ridge on the left, full bar... Pilot was so into landing rather than getting out of the cloud... Fixated
@@pietekoo5559 not sure if you are joking, but if not, that is called a vario, the tone and rate of beeps indicates how fast you are climbing or sinking.
Wow! Speedboat tow and landing on floats opens up a whole heap of launch and landing sites and a whole new aspect of hang gliding. Wish I tried this when I was into hang gliding!
Great op Gerry! Lucky guys! Friend & I, two up in a Trike ultralight, getting very dark, storm gust front coming with roll cloud. I elected to takeoff, almost got sucked up, severe turbulence, idle to full power in lifts & drops. We made it but very bad decision. Be careful out there everybody! Don't be stupid...like me!
Looking at the cloud development on the nearby mountains should tell you caution is necessary I think. In my 20 plus years of paragliding I've had 3 shit my pants moments, 2 flying mountains in France, one in Oz. And been in similar situations. But BIG big ears , those were tiny, and speed bar to get away from the cloud would have been a better idea. Right at the start of this I saw a sunny cloudless area ahead of you, but you carried on with a gentle 360 in the shit place, in the rain. Glad you got away with it. I guess you had a guide, I hope you didn't pay him.
My thoughts exactly. Maybe a bit reckless but I'd a thrown my reserve and been safe on the ground, but maybe some scratches and tears. Why would you barely collapse your wing? I'd had that thing shut down dropping like a rock.
@@canatolakhoemini6728 Mmm, a standard descent rate under a reserve is 5 or 5.5m/s. You can find yourself under a cloud that sucks you up faster than this. You can try and spiral down, if you can, or do big ears (larger than in the video) and go full bar to try and escape the lifty area. If you just throw your reserve, that's it, you have given up all control. If you're in air that lifts more that you descend, up you go, nothing you can do. If you're in massive turbulence and you get collapses on your reserve, nothing you can do. I wouldn't say it's maybe a bit reckless to throw your reserve in order to escape cloudsuck, I'd say it's dangerous...
My country is a pancake. Flying is simple, keep the green under you, and the blue with these white things above. You can land almost everywhere, plenty of farms looking exactly like a good old grass runway. In the mountains, EVERYTHING is dangerous. There are mountains! Large formations of rock, potentially all around you. Just a bit of fog or haze or cloud and you have a problem. Maybe you poke a wingtip extremely close to the mountain, doing over 100 kmph. Wind can cause a rotor, fierce turbulence smashing you down. Your FM radio does not work for miles and miles anymore, when you fly into another valley, chances are you can not talk to your airfield anymore. Local weather conditions are different from home. Be aware. Be careful. Always ask for local advise.
Well done for sharing the video, I’m sure other people will be able to learn from this. One point I found interesting is that during the main part of the descent and on the first guys landing you both just stayed in the same area (which was giving you lift). I don’t fly paragliders but I used to skydive and I fly airliners so have a rough idea of these things. You might be better off getting out of the lift area then trying to get down. Glad you all landed safely, beers after this one for sure!
@@suetaylor1127 No. Ya know, I always thought they came from some mystical place where they create ex girlfriends, wives, and well my old school teachers.
@@humblehombre9904 Those are metaphorical storms unrelated to the weather. Kinda like when when i was growing up my mom would tell me it looks like a tornado has swept through your room. Thats ridiculous how could a tornado sweep through my room? She was metaphorically speaking comparing me to a tornado.
@@suetaylor1127 Are you really so dense that you cannot understand a very simple form of sarcasm? My god woman, must I spell it out for you? I WAS JOKING? Is that mansplaining? ( that too was sarcasm, a joke, a guffaw, a play on words)
I'm surprised in what conditions some pilots fly without any SIV course. He could be on the ground pretty quickly but he has no clue what he is doing, even ears are really small ones
Maybe you had courage to post this video. That's good. We can all learn from this. But 10 seconds into it, I could see that this was NOT a flying day. You should not have launched. I am an experienced hang glider pilot and I would not have launched. Make it your objective to learn about the weather otherwise next time it may not end so well.
13:47 I enjoyed the ride thoutherly. The weather was no issue with me and my friend, only it was way too short. Wish you'd stayed up a little longer. Great content, brother, I look forward to the next time you take us up. Take care.
"Varios" like this have been standard equipment in paragliding and hang gliding for many years. They are also used in sailplanes (proper gliders) which you can see in many RUclips videos. :-)
You spend all your time learning how to stay up and then you find yourself in something like that and teaching yourself trying to get down! Violated Park hours in a HG years ago because I could NOT get down. My arms were just gone and the Park Ranger gave me a citation banning me from the Park for 30 days. But I was on the ground and it was good! I still have the citation err... Certificate of Accomplishment :-)
Holy crap! A (deeper?) weather dive pre-flight (that morning) would have definitely revealed the rain and t-storm potential of that day - and indicated that you should have relaxed and NOT gone flying. The cloud development all around the valley looked huge. Early ears and bar to get "down and away" from the storm and on to the ground sooner, instead of just "trying to get straight down" (and getting repeatedly pulled back up), would have been your most effective bet (as soon as you had realized the decision to fly was a really bad one). Glad you're all ok and nobody died from lightning strike, hypoxia, or hypothermia. Hope that never happens to any of you ever again. Hopefully other pilots will learn from your video.
You missed the normal Passy landing spot about 3km east (towards Cham), aire d'atterrissage on Rue Paul Corbin ... do it again in a storm and get it right this time LOL
These guys get points for staying calm. I dont think that I would have done anything dumb, but that level of anxiety and adrenalin for 30 mins would have me EXHAUSTED. "Anyone want to buy a paraglider?" LOL
Well, you kept your cool, though you spiraled late from the video perspective. And it reminded my why back when I was fliying a B-line stall was a good option to get down for extended time in strong climbing conditions. Yeah, I know, with most wings today not a good options anymore… yet killing height with no addtional G over extended time brought me out of similar situations in the Alps twice…
When you try to escape a thermal by descending you stay in the ascending air. When you let off the glider it imediately starts to climb again. The better option is to go in a straight line away from the thermal and clouds.
It looks to me that the first 360 about 1 minute into the video should have been replaced with big ears and full speed out from the cloud. Now the pilot just is turning around without much sink under the cloud, in the lift area. If you are trying to get down under the cloud, you must go front down (=sprial, not 360s). If you are not skilled enough to do that, pull big ears and push full speed and try to get away from the cloud as fast as you can. Making real spirals in strong, turbulent conditions is NOT as easy as many sofa-pilots think it is. I can't do it. I also try to avoid flying in to strong conditions. But sometimes, the conditions changes must faster than expected and one can get cought. Good that the pilot posted! I guess we can learn something from it and fly safer.
Hi there, really nice to also see the video and to know you and your friends are safe. I think i saw you guys live from my balcony( i live in Saint Gervais les Bains). I have to recognize that it was scarry even from where i was standing, the storm was approaching really fast and i noticed you were struggling pretty hard to land.
I am not a paraglider, just spend some time in the alps in vacation. And i would say starting was a bad decision. Dark clouds close to the tip of the mountains ? I wouldnt have started a WALK ! You were very lucky the clouds didnt go down further, you would have ended up flying blind in the mist.... Glad that didnt happen and you came down save. weather in the alps is no joke. Next time ask the local people about the weather, they know it best !!
Ce jour là je vous ai vus vous étiez 5 en tout a avoir pris la mauvaise décision de décoller ….. quand je vois vos action face à l’évidence je me dit que vous avez était très chanceux ….. erreurs sur erreurs qui heureusement pour vous se terminent bien.
Excellent video Gerry. Definitely a poop in the pants moment for you all. Pleased you were all down Safely. It kept me gripping my arse on the Couch. Interestingly though, I recall being on Col de le forclaz in Annecy in whereby I had taken off with a clear rain storm miles away to my south. So I didn't feel in any danger. Anyway I took off and within 5 minutes what I can only describe as a Foen or Venturi wind came through the valley which was coming from a completely different direction than the Storm, without any warning and it was seriously strong. I managed to land with big ears and speed bar as instructed by Pete G just as the torrential rain came. It was an Interesting but scary experience. I'm sure you lot would have been extremely concerned with your experience. Can I just ask,did anyone attempt the B Stall or Full Stall. Excellent instruction to from the ground. But I think that the Constructive Discussions are really good. I certainly don't think anyone of you should be concerned about any negative comments because this is what is needed. This situation can in reality happen to anyone. Maybe if we could see footage of the Sky just before takeoff, would better explain what you were all seeing.
Wow - my heart was in my mouth for most of that. Glad you're all safe. Definitely take heed of the comments. Spiraling with one side of the wing collapsed is a good technique as it significantly reduces the Gs. You'll learn it on an SIV. If the leading edge isn't parallel with the horizon you're not spiralling. Hope the rest of your trip went well.
Hallo Steppenwolf, danke dass Du so gute Videos machst. Ich mag Deine Art zu erzählen und zu kommentieren. Hochdeutsch und Schweizer Deutsch gefällt mir beides. Ich finde es spannend Deine Filme anzusehen. Gruß Norbert
This would make for a great low-budget adventure thriller movie, like open water with a happier ending. Wouldn't need much embellishment. This is terrifying.
This was scary as....... to watch. I think it's easy to watch this from the safety of a sofa, and criticize, but I was amazed that there seemed to be no real attempt to spiral, or even no big big ears and speed bar. I've never flown there but have heard stories of how things can go horribly wrong when valleys and big rain clouds are involved. Glad to see you get to the ground safe though. Defiantly a learning experience.
Thanks PG Pilot. Plenty of Speed Bar deployed and enough Ears to get down (if not the Big Big variety!), but yes, we should have used much more aggressive decent techniques. Live and learn, and that's why I posted the Vid, so thanks for taking the time to comment!
If you've been flying long enough this will happen. I've had it happen at least 3 times where I worked very hard to get out of the sky due to suck. Keep flying and eventually you should find sink and then core that down.
I am from Annecy and flew mostly out of La Forclaz, but i know Chamonix, St Gervais area quite well and the sky did not look very friendly from start ..... and Chamonix is a wonderful playground however it's high mountains quickly and things can get rough in one minute..... glad you made it ok
To me it looked like you were thermaling there and not spiraling down. If this storm developed any further you would end up in the clouds. You should be going straight into the valey away from the rain and clouds, in the direction of open sky.
i may have B lined earlier when looking behind at that driving rain ( importance of doing SIV you know how your glider behaves in B line ).....lol,.....great video , glad all ok
I have never done paragliding, I flew fixed wing gliders, so I am not 100% sure what I am about to say would have worked with your flying inflatable mattress there. You were asking why you still were going up. You were going up because the slope lift and the up currents from the cloud developed a force like a hundred freight trains going up. The vertical speed of the up-currents in those clouds can easily outpace the horizontal speed limit of your chute. The best chance you have is to fly forward, out off the zone of climb. Flying way ahead into the valley should have done the trick. I have no idea if your forward speed at that altitude was enough to outmatch the wind, though.
We can easily get “parked” by head wind, but I too saw many opportunities to continue towards blue sky and the open valley, only to be frustrated by seeing him turn back into the lift.
@@MrUltrasound LOL! Well, considering he kind of death that awaits in low oxygen environments on the deeply frozen high altitude ends of storm clouds, I wonder if it was the hand of God gripping there…
I’ve just watched this before I go to work whilst I eat my breakfast. Absolutely f#####g awesome ! I want a paraglider ! I want a paraglider ! I want a paraglider ! I want a paraglider ! I want a paraglider ! I want a paraglider ! I want a paraglider !!!!!
Wow, gripping ... not a paraglider, well I was once a passenger to film over Ben Nevis once, which was fun. The possibility of being stuck in the sky is ... !!
Sucks to be in such great lift and it be a bad thing right???? I had that happen while HG and got to 5800Ft MSL and started getting cold because I had no gloves or sweater or jacket to keep me warm. I tried pulling in the speed bar and spiraling but the vario was still reporting lift!!!!!! Got to 6400Ft MSL and much colder, I was getting worried. I simply flew straight for about a half mile and finally got out of the lift. I was so happy to get into warmer air!!!! LOL And that was on a beginner wing. A Falcon 2 225 Hang Glider. BRRRRRR You can see the vid on my channel broken up in 3 vids.
Folks, this is not a storm. It is only a strong thermal or ridge lift day. I am a 30 year glider pilot and what I see is a pilot who keeps staying in the updrafts rather than pushing on into the sinking air.
I hope you learned your lesson. You should make a list of all misstakes you made. Could be helpfull for the futer to avoid them. You didn't fly there your were flown. Good you made it to the ground securely!!!
I was watching and thinking about the decisions that you have during this moments. As far far as I can see the idea was go down but you are always stuck in the same spot. Congrats because just a few people have courage to show this kind of situation. Which was the wind speed?! Did you consider go out of the cloud directly in front?! On the sunny area?! Thanks for sharing... speedbar!!!!!!! :-)
I was also flying in this video. You’re right I think, running down the valley early would have been a good decision. Having launched, I was then trying to loose height too close to the cloud. Ears and bar weren’t effective in the early stages of the flight. They just meant going up more gradually. Spirals a bit more so. It was my first experience in conditions like these and lessons were learned. Probably not my best decision to take off in the first place.
@@robertanderson1207 I'm guessing Rob. You were the last one down, assuming you are the Rob receiving the instructions to Spiral and B Line Stall. We can clearly see you during the clip just how high you were, and I think we were all watching and Rooting for your safe descent. I guess SIV will be on the Flying Bucket list soon. There are some excellent comments regarding the video and a huge appreciation for Gerry Sharing it. I wonder did you yourself not have any footage. Would love to view it too.
Big shadow below you in a big area, big black cloud above you could indicate some serious trouble when you experience constant climbing. You know how cumulus nimbus look like and what they do. Big ears, accelerate and get the hell out of it, if its possible or do a propper spyral. Not just flying circules. I also recommend gloves. Even if they are thin. I use cyclinggloves in warm weather. Happy you‘re fine :). Thanks for sharing
Glad that it worked out, but never underestimate a thunderstorm. I've seen strong valley winds changing into deadly 60kmh+ gusts from the other direction in a matter of seconds. Looked like a lot of you arrived above safe landing spots (fields etc) and it still took you a couple of minutes to lose the the last 300m. Do the fast descent longer and don't waste precious time or flee right at the beginning with full speed to the next possible landing spot on the hillside next to you. Wish you nice and safe flights.
From my point of view, I have not seen a spiral in the clip, just turns. Also only ears, never big ears. I would have gone for big ears (2 outside A raisers on each side) followed by speed. Kudos for sharing, good to learn from👌
phew... glad you got out of this with no harm. And, pleeease: Do an SIV course! Spirals are way easier than one might think, and are actually quite fun to learn, too. And B-stalls are actually almost ridiculously easy to perform (though it takes some strength to hold them for an extended period of time, I'd say).
@@jirisilhan3094 : Well, his instructor/tour guide/whatever instructed him to do so. Anyway, I'd do *anything* in order to avoid getting sucked into that cloud.
Fly straight to sink, turn to climb. Either spiral hard all the way to the deck, or full bar towards the blue sky to find sink. Glad you were ok. Man I hate being in the air when you want to be on the ground!
it increases the risk of stall, the risk of collapses is greatly reduced, you may still want to risk stall, though, having a storm cloud suck as an alternative
Not sure if it works the same for PGs but we find in HGs we become increasingly efficient when we spiral dive as the G's build. We have to alternate directions of the spiral as the efficiency builds to a maximize decent rate. Hairy flight to be sure.
I’m an airline pilot. Storms definitely do not come out of nowhere. No storm never, ever comes out of nowhere. Every weather phenomenon has a cause. Those clouds were telling you a story loud and clear, but you were not paying attention. I am willing to wager you never examined the weather charts, or even called a flight weather station. This is why you incorrectly thought it came out of nowhere.
I am glad you made it down. Hope you learned a lesson. The next storm might not be so mild. If you don’t know, don’t go.
I was up on a mountain in the desert and a storm "came out of nowhere". Very dangerous, lots of lightning, and I was only about 300 feet from the summit. Luckily I spotted a cave, made a beeline for it, and waited out the storm inside the cave behind a boulder. It's true, I got into a very dangerous situation because I wasn't paying proper attention to the weather.
@@Skank_and_Gutterboy Bro come on now, we're not talking about being on foot and getting "'surprised" by a storm, we're talking about people than went FLYING without looking at the wheather charts that 100% told them with 0 margin of error that a huge storm was getting closer, and that HOURS before they even took off.
The only reason "the storm came outta nowhere" for you is that you had no radar equipement, no reason to look for weather and a false sense that you shouldnt expect rain in a desert (which is actually very common and not rare at all).
@Jerry Polverino
Yeah, you're right. I haven't got the meteorological training of a professional pilot but even I can see that the sky looks dodgy, on my little 5 inch screen.
Lived in Cham for years and this is typical behaviour, especially by "les anglais" (et je parle en tant que rosbif 😉).
Whether it's paragliding, ski-ing, snowboarding, climbing...
Not having a go at the guy, I've done some stupid shit myself 🤡
@@philmckenna5709 We all have, and that includes airline pilots like myself. Stay humble. Stay alert. Always have a back up, alternative plan, another option. Always, the best plan is to check first and if you do not know for sure just stay on the ground, so you live to fly another day. Take care
We can just pop the main wing, do a bit of skydiving and open our emergency chute. The wing isn’t worth more than your life.
Just my 2 cents guys:
- the big storms like this don't come "out of nowhere" in the Alps, like you said, storms like this are on the forecast and on the radars 100%.
- first time in a new spot, with a sky like this, never take off, never.
- none of you mastered a spiral or real descent techniques, a medium spiral goes down 10/12 m/s, a big one down to 20 m/s, on your vario I was reading -2.5 m/s.
- your instructor on the radio had to push you harder and faster on the ground in my opinion tho. (even if he wouldn't let you take off).
- for sure a very big lesson for you guys, very happy everyone is safe!!!
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Andrea, I am skydiver and mountaineer, never flown a paraglider, Firstly I know the alpine weather all to well so I wouldn't jump in this, especially around Chamonix, but if I did, id know how to get down fast. I could front and rear riser turn and take out 1000s of feet fast, is there alot of difference with a paragliding wing?
@@paulhoulden Hi man, I don't know what you mean with "front and rear riser turn", but I imagine is kind of a deep spiral, strong G forces and going down fast, very fast. You need to train this and make sure your body support this, it's hard to keep a deep spiral for 30 sec or more, black out risk is very high...
You are right, Andrea, storms don't come out of nowhere in the mountains. Just like on the prairies of the Midwest, they form when the conditions are right-sometimes suddenly.
@@gala021 okay, so with a parachute, you can turn using toggles, or you can grab the whole riser (like 5 lines), riser turns are alot more aggressive and like you said, you can blackout. If you have a minute just youtube swooping, you get the idea of what I'm talking about, but you can descend like 800ft in seconds for example!
very true !
I had an awesome instructor who I'll never forget, Adam Nienkemper and when you're learning you just want to fly, no matter what! Adam said "It's always better to be on the ground wishing you were in the sky then being in the sky wishing you were on the ground"!!! :)
THAT can be applied over several activities involving ‘feet off the ground’
My instructor says this too and after a couple of scary cloud sucks into the "white room", so do I. It's a very important rule to remember.
You guys seems shy with the spiral, isn't it
@@pierreb6860 You've never flown in South Africa I take it.
Sounds a good teacher
"Breaking out the spiral" at first I was confused, then I started laughing. That's not a spiral ,buddy, that is a flat thermaling turn. Glad you are safe.
There are two kinds of spins. The usual one is a stall, and when it is asymmetrical you will end up spinning and this way you literally fall down. The other one you still have normal control, for it is not a stall, it's the opposite, airspeed is far too high, during cornering that is dangerous: G-forces are quickly going up. This is a true spiral. Maybe somebody was confusing the names of spinning down.
I don"t know what happens to a paraglider, when airspeed gets higher and higher and higher, during a high G turn. Does it collapse? Does it tear apart? Does it simply refuse to go any faster? Fixed wing airplanes break, the wings say BANG and they are gone. You'd better be aware of this kind of spiral.
@@voornaam3191 A spiral in a paraglider is what you described for the second option. Except it is not a spin. It is a stable maneuver. The airspeed is high, the g forces are very high, the direction of travel is straight down. The pilot will pass out long before a paraglider could suffer any damage. All wings are certified to handle at least 9G. Also it will not collapse, as the internal pressure is very high and the wing is very rigid. A spiral can be used to get down quickly. I think this pilot knows what a spiral is, he just did not do it nowhere close to steep enough to be even called a spiral.
This anxiety I have right reminds of the time I watched Paraglider head down into the St Clair River Michigan over on the American side, i am on Canadian side. I was horrified beyond belief. I grabbed my phone and typed in 911 and fully expected to have to press Send . But what seemed to be the last minute he swooped back up over the riverbank treeline to safety . That was as intense as this flight.
after 23 years of Paragliding - there has been a couple flights where I wished for the ground - Cloud suck is terrifying and has claimed many PG pilots. Sometimes the excitement of flying or the time spent to be at the site can over ride the decision to fly - fortunately these days I can drive all day to a flying site and if I dont like whats developing I can pack up and head to the pub - this is Feel is the greatest accomplishment in Paragliding. The ability to walk away. Great upload btw
Thanks for sharing the video. It’s always helpful to learn from others’ experience. Let me share some observations from my point of view as an instructor, which most likely overlap with other existing comments:
- The weather forecast and local observations prior to launching should have suggested locally strong lift and chance of rain. Make sure to study the weather report carefully, especially in the mountains.
- As other said: try to escape from the lift. It was obviously local lift, namely close to the mountain and underneath the clouds. Identify areas where you expect less lift, e.g. out in the valley where the sky looked clear, and fly there fast.
- I would have suggested you to use your speed bar and no big ears at the beginning to advance as quickly as possible. There was no imminent risk of entering the cloud (at least judging from the video) so no need to descend immediately.
- Think of it: when thermaling, you try to stay in rising air. When getting down, do the opposite.
- Only when you are in an area with less lift initiate your descent maneuver (unless imminent risk of entering the cloud).
- Another reason to move into the valley before descending is the terrain: the valley straightens below/behind you where the highway goes through. Means: valley wind is stronger there; no landing options behind you.
- Shift your focus away from the planned landing field and search for a better alternative, e.g. out in the valley (as the instructor on the radio suggests). The landing field to which you actually return is in the unwanted lift region. In fact, before going back there, you were in nice descending conditions, while you had nasty lift during your approach. Airliners divert when an airport is not safe to land at …
- Beware that your spiral was very docile. An effective spiral should dive much faster.
- Regarding the spiral: I would suggest to not look down to the ground below you (as it seems from the video), but out to the lower wing tip. You are less likely to get sick and you can see the horizon as reference.
- When doing big ears, also apply speed bar. It increases sink rate and makes the angle of attack smaller again (remember: big ears increase the angle of attack), so the aerodynamic configuration of the wing is better. This is especially important in rain when the wing is wet and more prone to stalling.
- Release any wraps on the brake handles to apply as little brake as possible while on big ears (angle of attack).
- By the way: you get a nice descent rate on big ears when additionally applying full bar and inducing a rolling motion by weight shifting your body. Good alternative to a spiral if that’s not (yet) your cup of tea. Ask your instructor to practice that - it’s fun.
Again, thanks for sharing and enjoy flying. Cheers
Interesting your comment on where to look when in deep spiral, I personally find looking down and spotting the point on the ground I'm spiralling round works for me 👍
Solid tips, every single one of them.
@@apreci8 I've made the same experience, looking at the wing tip really helps me with orientation
thanks for those great tips! :) as a beginenr pilot I have learned them all from my instructor, espacially the last one since spirals are really nothing one teaches a beginner but this technique saved my ass at leats once, getting greater sinking rates than fellow pilots in their nit very steep spirals :)
I strongly recommend to practice those (not nessesarily wing over but at least weight shifting), as it also is a great way to get out of trouble whenin big ears or problems with the wing itself
greetings from germany
And first of all, be sure to study and understand the basics of meteorology before activities like that
I think you've heard all the criticism I could give, I just wanna say it's great that you put up the video from your mistakes so people can learn from it.
Thank you.
Our community is not good enough at doing that, for fear of losing face.
Also, if you're ever in Germany, Switzerland, or Austria, they have a few G-force trainer centrifuges where you can reeally learn to spiral at (and over) your limits. And it's great fun, too.
We need more comments like this
Probably heard that one before but in case you don't know, when you catch the elevators/lines to do ears, you can start by twisting them upside down, that way you get a palm more worth of ears, but most importantly they become way easier to hold as you don't need to hold pressure with your fingers to get enough friction, just to hold the hand down.
And also take gloves
First clip about spiral diving without spiral diving :) good that everyone landed safely
yes, there I knew it will be a fun to watch :)
First thing I would have done- ears, and full bar toward the edge of the cloud. Then you can spiral so much more effectively or maybe not even have to.
Thank You for uploading. Good lesson for me
A good lesson to have shared Gerry, well done. The level of instability would certainly have shown up in the flying forecasts - look up Tephigrams / Skew T plots and get someone to explain - they look complicated, but don't lie to you! Second, you all seemed a bit wary of pulling a full (nose down) spiral dive. Either you haven't trained for them yet or, like me, you hate the high Gs - but my fear of not being able to descend quickly near clouds like that is 10x greater. A little trick with a pod harness is to open up the front flap, bend the knees to open up its' mouth' as you go into the spiral and it will balloon open - keep it that way - the extra drag is enough to significantly reduce the G's, and maintain a high descent rate continuously until 100m or so off the deck. My guess is you'd have been out of the poo within 5 mins not 25 - and as others have said, push away from the lift on full bar.
Merci d'avoir partager cette expérience. Thanks for having shared.
Glad it was a happy ending. I’ve had similar experiences in Piedrahita and Turkey. Big ears with speed bar, B-Line stalls, prolonged spiral dives - I’ve had it all..! I would have been reluctant to launch on the occasion you flew. Thanks for sharing.
i just wanted to know whic city or place in Turkey you had similar experiences.
@@AnilTAN launched off Babadag then over the back against a range of mountains to the NE. Big CB sitting at the end of the valley led to a backwards landing in a gust front. Turkey is amazing!
@@willpotter8343 i prefer Erzincan its amazing 🙃 next time try it :)
Everyone here is talking about spiral dives and other options to try and escape the cloud suck. The best way I learned to escape cloud suck in situations like this it to hike down and not launch in the first place when the sky is ODing like that.
(Not saying that knowing how to descend quickly isn't a good skill to have, but having the mindset to decide not to fly into/launch in sketchy conditions like this is the best way to stay safe)
Yeah, EXACTLY. THAT STUFF doesn’t just show up out of nowhere..
Yes - anyone knowing the Chamonix area would warn you that those cloud formations were ominous. Not a time to be launching.
That's á key point... decision making... descent techniques could fail... storms can bring bolts and strong gust... it's always better to redrawn than put all in... the mountain certainly will be there tomorrow...
@@Hemersonr I spent a few seasons climbing in that area. According the the SAR guys, the Japanese had a FAR higher accident rate than anyone else...
Why? Because they would always push on regardless and never turn back - they saw bailing out as a stain on their club and their country. Not a healthy attitude.
The Alps are big and scary. When they turn bad, the turn REALLY bad. They deserve our respect.
I once spent an evening in a hut with a well known female guide. She boasted that she had never spent an unplanned night on the mountain, while most of her male colleagues had experienced all kinds of epics. She said it was simply because she always consulted the Swiss AND the French AND the Italian weather forecasts, and kept to the valley if there were any significant doubts.
Flyers would do well to learn from her...
A suggestion and a question from me… I had a similar situation when I flew with my teacher and I was stuck high above the landing with a storm coming in. In retrospect I should not have launched but anyways I did not master the spiral and I felt stuck and was scared. My teacher had me do the big ears and spiral with the ears. It was actually much less G force than spiral and you lose easily 20 m/s also the wing is very loaded it feels quite smooth and stable. Is that a technique I can keep in case I need or is there a reason other pilots have such a strong preference for a spiral?
I always love a happy ending........i mean landing.
Great video you guys.
as a 20000 hr airline pilot, not a paraglider, I have much respect for these kind of conditions. Even with a 200 to 300 ton aircraft I am reluctant to mess with these CB’s. The updraughts and downdraughts can be quite formidable. You can see the weather building up quite easily. My two cents; stay away from these conditions.
Reminds me a bit of my 3rd day in the alps with my new license. The foehn started and everything was climbing. I was in big ears for about 15 min sometimes with some climb left. Lesson learned. When there is a foehn starting and even mentioned in the forecast, don't go out flying or if you do, go for a top landing where there is no influence of the wind in the valley.
pilots never practice spiral dives so when they need it its new to them with a proper spiral dive (facing the planet) he could of been on the ground around the 8 min mark
....Knowing virtually ZERO about parag’ing, I can imagine the “Spiral Dive” maneuver being SOMETHING “TO GET USED TO”..!
@@m118lr it take some getting used to because you start spining fast you pull around 4 g the more you pull that inner brake the more your going to spin fast the more the glider is going to place itself facing the ground and you rush toward the ground at around 20m/s vertical speed ..the ground is spining looking at it to long will make most disy add the fact that your pulling 4 g and rushing the ground at 20m/s ...yes i would say it take some getting used to and you have to get used to getting out of this maneuver to ... here is what a spiral dive should look like ruclips.net/video/Non7rpL8HDo/видео.html
@@jimmymarois5086 B Stall ve Full Stall çöküş oranları ortalama ne kadar? Spiral gerçekten rahatsız edici. G-Kuvveti ve rüzgar sesi, iplerin ıslık çalışı. Spirali hiç sevmiyorum.
@@KorayU. spiral is the fastest way to go down you can exceed 20m/s full stall your at about 6m/s ..learning to spiral dive could save your life one day
With your blood going down your feet by the centrifugal force … no surprise you get dizzy and risk ending up as Lego.
Hey Bro…. I live and fly in this place and please some things….. your mistake began an 1 minute where you started turning …… then what you are calling a spiral is thermaling ….. in this conditions please always use 100% of your speedbar and not only half of it…… big ears with full speedbar and keeping the direction where you can see the blue sky is the only option….. there is no other possibility…. Stay safe ❤
Good advice. Glad this guy had the courage to post this video so everyone can learn
WOW ... that got my heart going, I need a bloody valium now! Well done for keeping cool guys.
All those days wishing for more lift then too much lift. Well done for coming down safely. I been there. Luckily it was a rc glider and I was on the ground and glad I was. Hats off to u for keeping cool and doing all the right things 👍👍
Nice video, thank you for posting.
Also you're talking about it: I can't see any big ears and spiraling. Only small ears and flat circling.
Glad you had a happy landing!
Great that you share this so hopefully others can learn.
Pilots need to respect the weather especially in big mountains.
I never forgot flying in Bassano years ago all the local pilots took one look at the weather conditions and obviously the clouds and all decided it was a day to drink coffee yet all the visiting pilots were having a terrible time trying to get down , I sat with the Italian's watching pilots landing in what turned out to be a torrential downpour.
If locals stay on ground, never try to fly! Check weather before every start. Don't, simply don't go to the starting field and start directly, just take at least 10-30min to check the condition and other gliders. If there are no others and you are a non professional don't start. And, take an SIV! This year second time at lac d' Annecy.. Spirals (real ones) is in the beginning a little terrifying but if it worked out you can go by 15m/s down or even faster.
Those spirals were a tad lackluster.
A nose down is not particularly pleasant but I would personally be more afraid of those clouds than giving myself whiplash from five mins of 4g's
Thanks for posting this guys - loads to learn from my perspective - really useful!!
Glad it was helpful!
I'm conflicted...
That awesome video kinda makes me want to paraglide and kina makes me never to be near one...
Thanks for sharing and glad you all walked away!
Thanks for sharing! Glad all made it down safe.
Wow scarry stuff Gerry, thanks for sharing this experience with others!
Thank you so much for this! Uncut footage like this is some of the best learning and interesting information, stay safe up there and coming down!
Glad you enjoyed it!
In big mountains on higher aspect ratio wings & 2-liners I always felt much more relaxed when flying with an Ozone Anti-G drogue chute; you get massive sink rate in the spiral-dives with very little G-force. Makes it very easy to get on the ground very quickly.
Got my license and bought my wing. On the second flight I took off with a storm approaching, I believed the certified instructor and many veterans there that it is safe to dash it to the LZ. Boy were they wrong, got hit by a wind so quick it pushed me into a mountain (with full speed on I was still going backwards fairly quickly) and as I was 120m in the air I got hit by a massive squall which crumpled my EN-A wing like someone crunching a paper bag. I immediately threw a reserve and was hanging at the worst spot in between trees in a forest for an hour before I was found (I luckily had a radio on me, but left my phone in the back). I was never in such panic, pain, and close to passing out (funnily enough you know when you are about to pass out even if it's your first time google harness syndrome). Luckily my friends pumped my legs with a help of a ladder and later the local fireman who are much accustomed to this took my wing and reserve out of the tree with zero damage. Flew the next day just to make sure I don't grow fearful of flying. These things are no joke and I am never going up there when I see storm and hear the characteristic storm wind currents blowing through the trees.
To this day I am not sure if I could have done anything better (beside not taking off), but the sight of a guy in front of me about to land be picked up like a crumpled tissue and tossed 80 degrees left and almost vertical once the gust hit him and then tossed about I something I won't ever forget. I will never play russian roulette with nature again.
Full bar straight to the edge of the cloud would be the proper response. Not big ears that slow your ground speed and keep you under the cloud longer. My anxiety went to 100 watching this.
This is the way.... So early into the video I would have headed for the mini ridge on the left, full bar... Pilot was so into landing rather than getting out of the cloud... Fixated
Even better idea, don't freaking launch when the sky is ODing...
What is the beeping sound which changes in pitch and tempo?
@@pietekoo5559 variometer, indicates the vertical speed to show it you are climbing or sinking
@@pietekoo5559 not sure if you are joking, but if not, that is called a vario, the tone and rate of beeps indicates how fast you are climbing or sinking.
Wow! Speedboat tow and landing on floats opens up a whole heap of launch and landing sites and a whole new aspect of hang gliding. Wish I tried this when I was into hang gliding!
Great op Gerry! Lucky guys! Friend & I, two up in a Trike ultralight, getting very dark, storm gust front coming with roll cloud. I elected to takeoff, almost got sucked up, severe turbulence, idle to full power in lifts & drops. We made it but very bad decision. Be careful out there everybody! Don't be stupid...like me!
Oh that happened once to me too. Don't fight it, try to escape it pulling the accelerator.
Looking at the cloud development on the nearby mountains should tell you caution is necessary I think. In my 20 plus years of paragliding I've had 3 shit my pants moments, 2 flying mountains in France, one in Oz. And been in similar situations. But BIG big ears , those were tiny, and speed bar to get away from the cloud would have been a better idea. Right at the start of this I saw a sunny cloudless area ahead of you, but you carried on with a gentle 360 in the shit place, in the rain. Glad you got away with it. I guess you had a guide, I hope you didn't pay him.
My thoughts exactly. Maybe a bit reckless but I'd a thrown my reserve and been safe on the ground, but maybe some scratches and tears. Why would you barely collapse your wing? I'd had that thing shut down dropping like a rock.
@@canatolakhoemini6728 Mmm, a standard descent rate under a reserve is 5 or 5.5m/s. You can find yourself under a cloud that sucks you up faster than this. You can try and spiral down, if you can, or do big ears (larger than in the video) and go full bar to try and escape the lifty area. If you just throw your reserve, that's it, you have given up all control.
If you're in air that lifts more that you descend, up you go, nothing you can do.
If you're in massive turbulence and you get collapses on your reserve, nothing you can do.
I wouldn't say it's maybe a bit reckless to throw your reserve in order to escape cloudsuck, I'd say it's dangerous...
My country is a pancake. Flying is simple, keep the green under you, and the blue with these white things above. You can land almost everywhere, plenty of farms looking exactly like a good old grass runway. In the mountains, EVERYTHING is dangerous. There are mountains! Large formations of rock, potentially all around you. Just a bit of fog or haze or cloud and you have a problem. Maybe you poke a wingtip extremely close to the mountain, doing over 100 kmph. Wind can cause a rotor, fierce turbulence smashing you down. Your FM radio does not work for miles and miles anymore, when you fly into another valley, chances are you can not talk to your airfield anymore. Local weather conditions are different from home. Be aware. Be careful. Always ask for local advise.
Well done for sharing the video, I’m sure other people will be able to learn from this.
One point I found interesting is that during the main part of the descent and on the first guys landing you both just stayed in the same area (which was giving you lift). I don’t fly paragliders but I used to skydive and I fly airliners so have a rough idea of these things. You might be better off getting out of the lift area then trying to get down.
Glad you all landed safely, beers after this one for sure!
I always wondered where storms came from…nowhere. Interesting.
You didn't know that?
@@suetaylor1127 No. Ya know, I always thought they came from some mystical place where they create ex girlfriends, wives, and well my old school teachers.
@@humblehombre9904 Those are metaphorical storms unrelated to the weather. Kinda like when when i was growing up my mom would tell me it looks like a tornado has swept through your room. Thats ridiculous how could a tornado sweep through my room? She was metaphorically speaking comparing me to a tornado.
@@suetaylor1127 Are you really so dense that you cannot understand a very simple form of sarcasm? My god woman, must I spell it out for you? I WAS JOKING? Is that mansplaining? ( that too was sarcasm, a joke, a guffaw, a play on words)
Sat here watching thinking, that spiral takes 7 seconds for one turn.....same as a good thermaling turn. 😉🤣
I'm surprised in what conditions some pilots fly without any SIV course. He could be on the ground pretty quickly but he has no clue what he is doing, even ears are really small ones
Maybe you had courage to post this video. That's good. We can all learn from this. But 10 seconds into it, I could see that this was NOT a flying day. You should not have launched. I am an experienced hang glider pilot and I would not have launched. Make it your objective to learn about the weather otherwise next time it may not end so well.
You said yourself you arent a professional. So shut the fk up when professionals do their shit
That landing pattern was predictable lol. On a serious note though, why so lackadaisical once the storm was identified?
Me and my friend jerome landed 10 minutes before you, we sat in the car and watched you guys struggle to get down, scary stuff
What a day!
13:47 I enjoyed the ride thoutherly. The weather was no issue with me and my friend, only it was way too short.
Wish you'd stayed up a little longer.
Great content, brother, I look forward to the next time you take us up.
Take care.
Audio as a climb/fall indicator... never seen that before - brilliant.
I use an XC Tracer Mini - www.xctracer.com/en/76/?oid=1905&lang=en&news_eintragId=195
"Varios" like this have been standard equipment in paragliding and hang gliding for many years. They are also used in sailplanes (proper gliders) which you can see in many RUclips videos. :-)
You spend all your time learning how to stay up and then you find yourself in something like that and teaching yourself trying to get down! Violated Park hours in a HG years ago because I could NOT get down. My arms were just gone and the Park Ranger gave me a citation banning me from the Park for 30 days. But I was on the ground and it was good! I still have the citation err... Certificate of Accomplishment :-)
Haha, excellent
Holy crap! A (deeper?) weather dive pre-flight (that morning) would have definitely revealed the rain and t-storm potential of that day - and indicated that you should have relaxed and NOT gone flying. The cloud development all around the valley looked huge. Early ears and bar to get "down and away" from the storm and on to the ground sooner, instead of just "trying to get straight down" (and getting repeatedly pulled back up), would have been your most effective bet (as soon as you had realized the decision to fly was a really bad one). Glad you're all ok and nobody died from lightning strike, hypoxia, or hypothermia. Hope that never happens to any of you ever again. Hopefully other pilots will learn from your video.
You missed the normal Passy landing spot about 3km east (towards Cham), aire d'atterrissage on Rue Paul Corbin ... do it again in a storm and get it right this time LOL
These guys get points for staying calm.
I dont think that I would have done anything dumb, but that level of anxiety and adrenalin for 30 mins would have me EXHAUSTED.
"Anyone want to buy a paraglider?" LOL
Well, you kept your cool, though you spiraled late from the video perspective. And it reminded my why back when I was fliying a B-line stall was a good option to get down for extended time in strong climbing conditions. Yeah, I know, with most wings today not a good options anymore… yet killing height with no addtional G over extended time brought me out of similar situations in the Alps twice…
When you try to escape a thermal by descending you stay in the ascending air. When you let off the glider it imediately starts to climb again. The better option is to go in a straight line away from the thermal and clouds.
It looks to me that the first 360 about 1 minute into the video should have been replaced with big ears and full speed out from the cloud. Now the pilot just is turning around without much sink under the cloud, in the lift area.
If you are trying to get down under the cloud, you must go front down (=sprial, not 360s). If you are not skilled enough to do that, pull big ears and push full speed and try to get away from the cloud as fast as you can.
Making real spirals in strong, turbulent conditions is NOT as easy as many sofa-pilots think it is. I can't do it. I also try to avoid flying in to strong conditions. But sometimes, the conditions changes must faster than expected and one can get cought.
Good that the pilot posted! I guess we can learn something from it and fly safer.
Hi there, really nice to also see the video and to know you and your friends are safe. I think i saw you guys live from my balcony( i live in Saint Gervais les Bains). I have to recognize that it was scarry even from where i was standing, the storm was approaching really fast and i noticed you were struggling pretty hard to land.
I am not a paraglider, just spend some time in the alps in vacation. And i would say starting was a bad decision. Dark clouds close to the tip of the mountains ? I wouldnt have started a WALK !
You were very lucky the clouds didnt go down further, you would have ended up flying blind in the mist.... Glad that didnt happen and you came down save. weather in the alps is no joke.
Next time ask the local people about the weather, they know it best !!
So Gerry, have you and your mates booked an SIV yet? Thanks for sharing the video.
Ce jour là je vous ai vus vous étiez 5 en tout a avoir pris la mauvaise décision de décoller ….. quand je vois vos action face à l’évidence je me dit que vous avez était très chanceux ….. erreurs sur erreurs qui heureusement pour vous se terminent bien.
Excellent video Gerry. Definitely a poop in the pants moment for you all. Pleased you were all down Safely. It kept me gripping my arse on the Couch. Interestingly though, I recall being on Col de le forclaz in Annecy in whereby I had taken off with a clear rain storm miles away to my south. So I didn't feel in any danger. Anyway I took off and within 5 minutes what I can only describe as a Foen or Venturi wind came through the valley which was coming from a completely different direction than the Storm, without any warning and it was seriously strong. I managed to land with big ears and speed bar as instructed by Pete G just as the torrential rain came. It was an Interesting but scary experience. I'm sure you lot would have been extremely concerned with your experience. Can I just ask,did anyone attempt the B Stall or Full Stall. Excellent instruction to from the ground. But I think that the Constructive Discussions are really good. I certainly don't think anyone of you should be concerned about any negative comments because this is what is needed. This situation can in reality happen to anyone. Maybe if we could see footage of the Sky just before takeoff, would better explain what you were all seeing.
Wow - my heart was in my mouth for most of that. Glad you're all safe. Definitely take heed of the comments. Spiraling with one side of the wing collapsed is a good technique as it significantly reduces the Gs. You'll learn it on an SIV. If the leading edge isn't parallel with the horizon you're not spiralling. Hope the rest of your trip went well.
5:45 I cannot blame you for farting in this situation. I would have done the same. And more.
He let her rip tater chip!!
Well done sharing. Happy to see down safe, nail biting stuff 😬
Hallo Steppenwolf, danke dass Du so gute Videos machst. Ich mag Deine Art zu erzählen und zu kommentieren. Hochdeutsch und Schweizer Deutsch gefällt mir beides. Ich finde es spannend Deine Filme anzusehen. Gruß Norbert
I can't recommend doing an SIV highly enough if you like flying in the mountains & it looks like you would benefit a lot from it.
Yeah agreed. Covid has cancelled two attempts so far. Hopefully next year will bring more luck. But totally agree. SIV
This would make for a great low-budget adventure thriller movie, like open water with a happier ending. Wouldn't need much embellishment. This is terrifying.
Interesting flight of terror, thanks for posting this!
Wake me up when the terror starts
Scary vid, but in my experience storms don’t come out of nowhere. Glad u are save
This was scary as....... to watch. I think it's easy to watch this from the safety of a sofa, and criticize, but I was amazed that there seemed to be no real attempt to spiral, or even no big big ears and speed bar. I've never flown there but have heard stories of how things can go horribly wrong when valleys and big rain clouds are involved. Glad to see you get to the ground safe though. Defiantly a learning experience.
Thanks PG Pilot. Plenty of Speed Bar deployed and enough Ears to get down (if not the Big Big variety!), but yes, we should have used much more aggressive decent techniques. Live and learn, and that's why I posted the Vid, so thanks for taking the time to comment!
If you've been flying long enough this will happen. I've had it happen at least 3 times where I worked very hard to get out of the sky due to suck. Keep flying and eventually you should find sink and then core that down.
I am from Annecy and flew mostly out of La Forclaz, but i know Chamonix, St Gervais area quite well and the sky did not look very friendly from start ..... and Chamonix is a wonderful playground however it's high mountains quickly and things can get rough in one minute..... glad you made it ok
To me it looked like you were thermaling there and not spiraling down. If this storm developed any further you would end up in the clouds. You should be going straight into the valey away from the rain and clouds, in the direction of open sky.
i may have B lined earlier when looking behind at that driving rain ( importance of doing SIV you know how your glider behaves in B line ).....lol,.....great video , glad all ok
I have never done paragliding, I flew fixed wing gliders, so I am not 100% sure what I am about to say would have worked with your flying inflatable mattress there. You were asking why you still were going up. You were going up because the slope lift and the up currents from the cloud developed a force like a hundred freight trains going up. The vertical speed of the up-currents in those clouds can easily outpace the horizontal speed limit of your chute. The best chance you have is to fly forward, out off the zone of climb. Flying way ahead into the valley should have done the trick. I have no idea if your forward speed at that altitude was enough to outmatch the wind, though.
We can easily get “parked” by head wind, but I too saw many opportunities to continue towards blue sky and the open valley, only to be frustrated by seeing him turn back into the lift.
the hand of God didn't let go
@@MrUltrasound LOL! Well, considering he kind of death that awaits in low oxygen environments on the deeply frozen high altitude ends of storm clouds, I wonder if it was the hand of God gripping there…
I’ve just watched this before I go to work whilst I eat my breakfast.
Absolutely f#####g awesome !
I want a paraglider ! I want a paraglider ! I want a paraglider ! I want a paraglider ! I want a paraglider ! I want a paraglider ! I want a paraglider !!!!!
Get a Paraglider (and some lessons) and you're away!
wow, epic video!
Manero.
Very good.
Vídeo wonderful
Wow, gripping ... not a paraglider, well I was once a passenger to film over Ben Nevis once, which was fun. The possibility of being stuck in the sky is ... !!
At the bigining only full speed and go out of the "big storm" (not really). And then spiral(not thermaling) if its nessesery.😉
Sucks to be in such great lift and it be a bad thing right???? I had that happen while HG and got to 5800Ft MSL and started getting cold because I had no gloves or sweater or jacket to keep me warm. I tried pulling in the speed bar and spiraling but the vario was still reporting lift!!!!!! Got to 6400Ft MSL and much colder, I was getting worried. I simply flew straight for about a half mile and finally got out of the lift. I was so happy to get into warmer air!!!! LOL And that was on a beginner wing. A Falcon 2 225 Hang Glider. BRRRRRR You can see the vid on my channel broken up in 3 vids.
Haha. I've done this off Mont Blanc. Ideal conditions, apart from some strong gusts at the summit, which were a bit unnerving! :)
Folks, this is not a storm. It is only a strong thermal or ridge lift day. I am a 30 year glider pilot and what I see is a pilot who keeps staying in the updrafts rather than pushing on into the sinking air.
Thanks for sharing
I hope you learned your lesson. You should make a list of all misstakes you made. Could be helpfull for the futer to avoid them.
You didn't fly there your were flown.
Good you made it to the ground securely!!!
are you even familiar with the functionality of SPEED SYSTEM? What was that first turn you made?
I was watching and thinking about the decisions that you have during this moments. As far far as I can see the idea was go down but you are always stuck in the same spot. Congrats because just a few people have courage to show this kind of situation. Which was the wind speed?! Did you consider go out of the cloud directly in front?! On the sunny area?! Thanks for sharing... speedbar!!!!!!! :-)
I was also flying in this video.
You’re right I think, running down the valley early would have been a good decision. Having launched, I was then trying to loose height too close to the cloud. Ears and bar weren’t effective in the early stages of the flight. They just meant going up more gradually. Spirals a bit more so. It was my first experience in conditions like these and lessons were learned.
Probably not my best decision to take off in the first place.
@@robertanderson1207 I'm guessing Rob. You were the last one down, assuming you are the Rob receiving the instructions to Spiral and B Line Stall. We can clearly see you during the clip just how high you were, and I think we were all watching and Rooting for your safe descent. I guess SIV will be on the Flying Bucket list soon. There are some excellent comments regarding the video and a huge appreciation for Gerry Sharing it. I wonder did you yourself not have any footage. Would love to view it too.
Big shadow below you in a big area, big black cloud above you could indicate some serious trouble when you experience constant climbing. You know how cumulus nimbus look like and what they do. Big ears, accelerate and get the hell out of it, if its possible or do a propper spyral. Not just flying circules. I also recommend gloves. Even if they are thin. I use cyclinggloves in warm weather.
Happy you‘re fine :). Thanks for sharing
Glad that it worked out, but never underestimate a thunderstorm. I've seen strong valley winds changing into deadly 60kmh+ gusts from the other direction in a matter of seconds.
Looked like a lot of you arrived above safe landing spots (fields etc) and it still took you a couple of minutes to lose the the last 300m.
Do the fast descent longer and don't waste precious time or flee right at the beginning with full speed to the next possible landing spot on the hillside next to you.
Wish you nice and safe flights.
I'm pleased I'm not the only one to experience the Venturi through Valleys at a Completely opposite direction that a Storm, miles apart.
damn good you all escaped savely. would definitely suggest a spiral or full bar valley exit next time
From my point of view, I have not seen a spiral in the clip, just turns. Also only ears, never big ears. I would have gone for big ears (2 outside A raisers on each side) followed by speed.
Kudos for sharing, good to learn from👌
14:45 ... your about to enter the spiral for the first time ... everything else until then was just tight turns. But you let go too soon.
I think I could not be as patient as you were and do Big ears -> locked in spiral or full stall much earlier.
Realmente un episodio de terror....me alegro que todo saliera bien.
phew... glad you got out of this with no harm. And, pleeease: Do an SIV course! Spirals are way easier than one might think, and are actually quite fun to learn, too. And B-stalls are actually almost ridiculously easy to perform (though it takes some strength to hold them for an extended period of time, I'd say).
B-stalling wet wing is not ideal. Speed and really big ears would have been great. He kind of enjoyed that flight though😁
@@jirisilhan3094 : Well, his instructor/tour guide/whatever instructed him to do so. Anyway, I'd do *anything* in order to avoid getting sucked into that cloud.
Fly straight to sink, turn to climb. Either spiral hard all the way to the deck, or full bar towards the blue sky to find sink. Glad you were ok. Man I hate being in the air when you want to be on the ground!
Holy shit now I know why they say... Better be on the ground wishing you were up there instead of being up there wishing you were on the ground.
Wow man that was crazy! I’ve been up once when it started to rain! Scary stuff
Good flying, 👍
my teachers told me to never do ears while there is rain, it increases the risks of collapses.
it increases the risk of stall, the risk of collapses is greatly reduced, you may still want to risk stall, though, having a storm cloud suck as an alternative
We try so hard to go up until it’s to easy, then it’s no fun. 🤪
this!
NUTS!!!
" Does anybody want to buy a paraglider??".........No SIV.....No water......doh!!??
That must have been terifying!!! 👍👍
OMG F__k That my ar__ would have swallowed my whole frigging harness , to be honest I’m glad u guys made it !!
Not sure if it works the same for PGs but we find in HGs we become increasingly efficient when we spiral dive as the G's build. We have to alternate directions of the spiral as the efficiency builds to a maximize decent rate. Hairy flight to be sure.