Jennifer Fergate: The Oslo Plaza Woman
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- Опубликовано: 15 апр 2024
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Will Keeps work on my buttocks?
Absolutely NAILED the sound on this
kudos!!
(except the ad read...needs your compression magic)
This could be just me, but the music is too loud. Background music should be just that, my ADHD is way too aware of it competing with Simon. That said, it's nice music.
Something about Keeps deciding to choose Simon to promote their product convinces me they have a sense of humour.
Simon start funding for time travel research 😊😮
Feels like forever since I've had a script come out on this channel, so hope you all enjoy! Good news, there's a couple more from me already on the way as well!
Love your work 🤟🤟
always a pleasure to watch a kevin video in the evening
Always love your work. I hope Simon throws a few more mushrooms your way, the Lizard Overlord. Allegedly. Cheers from Tennessee
You're one of my favorite Basement Dwellers! I'm excited to listen.
Was wondering what happened to you man! Glad to see you are still writing!
I'd like to comment on the "labels removed from clothes" phenomenon - i have done this with most of my clothes simply because label materials tend to be scratchy and irritating to my skin, i am the least mysterious person in the world.
Yep. All of my clothes have the printed on labels that wear off after a few washes or it’s clothes that a high backed sports bra or underwear can block me from feeling it. If I can feel it, it has to go. The majority of my loungewear has the tags cut out of it.
Is what a mysterious person would say to shift attention away!
Haha. I am only teasing. I do this to some, but not all of my garments.
@dawn-from-the-lab Well those types of tags weren't too common in the 90s, but also what about the shoes?
@@ReddFoxx1562 He (the guy she was having an affair with) bought them for her or he was with her when she bought them and someone from the shop might remember him, so he took them along with all her lower-body clothes in case they had any of his ...um .... specimen on them.
@audreymuzingo933 So many weird assumptions there. Affair? Also, as an American I definitely know that there were people looking for semen on garments.
Norwegian here: We use the word "sterilt" (sterile) as a descriptor for when a room feels over the top immaculate/ clean/ barren, kind of like a hospital where there's few to none personal items or clutter.
We use it that way in English as well. It depends on the context whether you mean the germless meaning or just the cold/impersonal meaning.
@@--enyo-- I guess it’s something of a regional/ country thing, because I’ve definitely heard it used that way in English, but I have also had to explain it to several English speakers who doesn’t quite understand the phrase 🤔
It's the same with the german word "steril".
Yeah we use it in German too. Unusual clean or feeling impersonal.
1. Always been fascinated by this story.
2. Absolutely on the hotel “do not disturb” signs in the U.S. Here, they’re more like ‘speed limit’ signs: followed about 50% of the time but are more likely to be adhered to when it’s really busy.
I always deadbolt hotel doors for exactly that reason. I’m usually awaked to the bolt loudly catching while the housekeeper attempts to bust into my room like they’re the FBI serving a no knock warrant.
It depends on the hotel, but some have rules in their contact of x many days before housekeeping ignores that. Part of it is "make sure you havent trashed a room"
US here too and I worked in a hotel for 14 years. More over it was a high end brand that would be on par with this hotel. So the business practices would be similar or not the same. What confounds me is that the hotel just went with it. The do not disturb is OK for your stay and yea it's a roll of the dice wither they adhere to it. But be damn sure that as soon as your money stops they will make sure you are out of the room as soon as possible. So they can clean it and sell it again. Money is the most important in business.
I also make sure to always bolt the door, but not because I've been woken up by someone entering my room. It was worse. They walked in, without knocking, while I was getting dressed, twice at 2 different places. Lucky for me, I'm not all that modest. But I may have permanently traumatized a couple housekeepers. Lol
...The FBI/no knock descriptor cracked me UP! Well played~
I've had housekeeping come in and steal my stuff while I was out before... they said they thought I was only there one night, but I had paid for 2 nights up front. Never trust them. There was no accountability with the hotel, and because it was an "honest mistake" and they claimed they threw my $300 in cash away (yeah right), the cops did nothing.
only a little way through so far but as someone that worked at a mid-end hotel for ten years - yeah, you do NOT let them swish off to their room without a credit card on file. Maybe super high-end hotels trust their guests more but there was no way that would have flown in any hotel I've ever heard of, even back in the 90s (especially in the 90s maybe). One thing goes wrong in that room, they spill coffee on the mattress, they make a long distance call, they leave the tub running and flood the room - your boss would have your (figurative) head if there was no credit card on file to charge. Sasha just wasn't doing his job, which happens sometimes when you've got a wimp at the front desk that can't handle anything but the fluffiest of customers. Also we ALWAYS required ID, matched to the credit card. No ID, no security deposit on the credit card - no check in. No exceptions no matter how crowded that lobby is. And that was a mid-tier hotel. I can't imagine the top of the top line being that gullible especially with that much money, and reputation, tied up in there. Maybe they just made enough nightly to write off any and all damages to the room or wild incidents - but that would be terrible business practice, especially once word gets out that there are no consequences for anything done in that hotel.
And yes, our maids did, on occasion, walk in on some pretty disturbing rooms including one guy that had killed himself with a shot to the head in the middle of the night. Any hotel that tells you no ones died in it (or that they've never had bedbugs) is lying. Also - knock that crap off! There's no need to traumatize a total stranger earning minimum wage because you want to go out in a private place. Our maids were tough as nails and that one still had to take a week off (no pay btw) to be okay enough to go back to cleaning rooms. If you're going to make a mess of your own life, do it somewhere you won't screw other people over in the process. (we also had to spend about five years after that fact watching out for the guy's daughter who kept trying to rent a room on the anniversary of her dad's death so she could follow his example. I hope she's still alive and doing better now. That was a rough 'anniversary' for a lot of us each year)
Thank you for dedicating the Jennifer's Body joke to me and the four other likeminded people who immediately thought about Megan Fox.
You're very welcome! Ironically I've never seen the movie, but it was the first thing I thought of when I wrote those words together
Though the movie title came to me right away i can't say the her name came to mind right away. When it did i thought about her "toe thumbs" and that kind of cleared her from my mind.
I am one of those four
Oq
I'm one of those four. one of my favourite movies
The sequel to "was there a second shooter": "was there a second sausage?"
This question really does have two ends!! 😮😧😁
"Mr. President, there was a second sausage ".
Clearly something was used to eat all the ketchup and it looks dipped and wiped many different times in similar directions. Whoever botched that part of the investigation is worthy of carrying a badge or a gun. It’s so easy to find out if it came from the hotel and if so to have them remake one like the other or to ask the staff what is the normal amount because it looks like 30-40% of the food is missing
As a former hotel employee, I would be very interested to know what was going behind-the-scenes at the front desk. I understand that it’s different brand standards, a different country, and just over two decades apart; but my experience is limited to the US in the 2010s, and thus gave me a lot of nitpicky questions in the story’s lead up that makes me want to know more about how European hotels operate
Additionally, I have to wonder about the key cards. Simon’s script mentions that she had initially checked in and then extended her stay, that both of her key cards were in the room when she was found, and that that hotel’s locks made it possible to double lock the door from the outside with the key card.
What I have to wonder though is 1) when she extended her stay, did she got new key cards or did her old key cards get reprogrammed? I’ve seen it happen multiple times where a guest extended their stay but did not have both of their keys with them at that moment so we just gave them one or two new keys (The general preference is to rekey the existing cards if possible).
And 2) it is said that her key cards were in the room with her, but were the keys actually tested to see if they were the current key cards for that room, or did the police just see 2 key cards in the room and assume they were the updated ones? When she extended, if she DID get new keys, is it possible that someone who might have been in the room with her when she died took one of the working key cards to lock the door behind them and left behind keys that no longer worked or were possibly even for a different room?
17:38 : it is stated that *new* key cards were issued. There is no information provided on what happened to the initial key cards
My sister, unfortunately, passed away in a hotel room. She was a travelling nurse & missed her morning appointments, so the police were called to do a welfare check. Thankfully, it was the police that found her & not some poor maid. She had a blood clot travel to her heart & passed pretty quickly, thank God. I couldn't bear the thought of her laying there, in pain, unable to call for help.
I was staying at a motel temporarily after I sold my home. One day I was outside my door, smoking a cigarette, and saw a nice little old lady and her dogs checking into her room. She waved, I waved. The next morning I woke up to the police in the parking lot. She had died in her sleep. It was so sad to thi lnk she died alone, in a crappy motel in Willits California. The coroner came and collected her body, the cops put her luggage in her truck, and had it towed off, animal control came and collected the dogs. 2 days later, there was someone else in the room. And the world kept turing, like nothing ever happend. I had a minor mortality crisis for a few weeks after.
I think I was the last human that she ever saw, and I the last to see her alive. She looked like a nice lady.😢
@@ripn929707 😢That would give me a mortality crisis too! My sister's death certainly did. I'm currently 48 & she was 53 when she passed. She would have been 55 in 2 days if she was still here. 55 doesn't seem as old to me as it did 25 years ago!
OH that's still pretty awful, I'm so sorry you had to lose her like that. Had she flown to that location? They say blood clots are often started in airplanes because of the extensive cramped seating. It's one of many reasons I don't fly anymore. I swear I'm not a hypochondriac but I have always had a sense that I'd be a good candidate for a blood clot. I get occasional numbness in my legs and feet, that sort of thing.
@@audreymuzingo933 She drove but she had blood clots previously. I have a clotting disorder, so it's possible she had one too but they never caught it. She was tested for the one I have when she had the previous one.
hey, I don't know if this helps but I have a bloodclot disorder and had a clot a few years ago, I was just tired and wanted to go to sleep, my mother didn't let me and that's why I survived, if I had gone to sleep I would've passed in my sleep without noticing a thing. I don't think she felt anything, just sleepy, went to bed and didn't wake up. I don't know if it gives any comfort but for me it wasn't scary or painful until I woke up again.
I'm so sorry for your loss, take care of yourself.
edit, bloodclot instead of bloodcloth
I really appreciate how much Kevin and Simon read and ingest the information thoughtfully. If something doesn't make sense Kevin researches it further. He also makes notes which Simon responds to which adds a nice dialogue aspect to the video
I'm really glad you appreciate all the work that goes into these!
@@ThatWriterKevin thank you from a bored scotsman. You've got a new fan
@@stewartmeetball3417 Appreciate it!
Love the writing, but the repetitive tinkly music is intriguing for about 10 seconds, after which it is truly irritating. And using it for all the DTU videos only makes it more excruciating. Please ask the producer to let us enjoy silence or some other background!!
No Simon. As someone who spent equal time between dad in different European places(including Eastbourne/Beachy Head), and mom & military stepdad traveling all over the USA; I can assure you that the closest American thing to a duvet is in fact a comforter.
The gross thing they spread across hotel room beds is best described as a coverlet. It is quilted or woven, but it is flatter with no batting to offer comfort like...well...a comforter. It is more for making the bed look neat, tidy, color-coordinated, and wrinkle free when made. The coverlet is almost more for visual reassurance of tidiness than it is for comfort.
If you'll pardon the baking analogy: comforter is to frosting as coverlet is to fondant
I like frosting. I hate fondant.
*Fondant taste gross
**I was going to say it taste like ass but that may imply that i eat ass since as you may know, people "eat" ass. If you didn't know... You're welcome and I'm sorry.
Ok I’m in the US and have been all my life. I understand very well that a duvet covers the comforter…? I was 💯 on this until this episode… have I been wrong this whole time? I have to go look now lol
Ok I just looked… a comforter is one piece. A duvet here is considered both the internal duvet and the external duvet cover. So it’s a comforter that isn’t to be used alone. It has an accompanying duvet cover. Today I learned… lmao
@@jonyemm Homemade fondant is delicious. The premade stuff is chalk.
@@butwhytho4858 I guess we're in the same boat because my comforters had covers, except for one bubble gumball set I had when I was 9 or 10. I thought the cover was just an extra thing, I didn't realize having a silk zip-up cover over my comforter made it not a comforter any more.
So, sleeping with a comforter and sheet set-up as opposed to basically having a sheet covering the comforter.
It's like chicken. If you serve chicken with barbecue sauce on the side, then it's grilled chicken with dipping sauce; but if you doctor that barbecue sauce with some brown sugar, cumin, and a Tbsp of red chili flake, and cover that same chicken in that barbecue sauce and then cook it, it becomes barbecue chicken.
First the Isdal woman and now this case! I must say that, as a Norwegian, I am very excited about these cases being covered by Simon and the wonderful team! ❤
Same, surprised that these relatively unknown cases spread to Simon. Would think he would take something more famous like the Ordrerud case.
What makes me sad is how Norwegian police seems to not have regular murder experience, so the cases make them look totally off their script. But it speaks to the quality of life there if murders are that rare. But it's nice to not hear the same stories all over again.
Reaction to a side tangent: Unless I'm staying somewhere for longer than like 5 days, I just hang "do not disturb" on my door every day. I don't need my room made up. There was one time they did it anyway, though. I think I was in Italy. Nothing was taken or anything, but I was like "what are you doing?"
It's happened several times to me here in the States, especially if the front desk doesn't let cleaning staff know that I requested a late checkout. 🤨
In Greek last summer they knocked and I told them I don't need cleaning (bc it's ridiculous I can throw the blankets in 2 seconds to make it look good and that's about it) But still they looked suspicious into the room behind me I was like ok... I was just being nice and making your job easier and that's suspicious? I usually had no issues with the do not disturb sign in any country I traveled to. Even US there were no issues they left me alone😂
American here, anytime I have shared a bed with a partner there's 2 blankets. I cocoon up when I sleep so it is literally impossible to share a blanket with me. Two blankets prevented fights and resentment. I highly recommend it.
Do you mean with someone you don't know or someone you're in a relationship with?
@DILFDylF in both situations not fighting would be preferred
I agree 2 blankets are always better. I'm a pretty light sleeper and moving my blanket is enough to wake me fully, whereas movement in the bed just wakes me a little and I'm able to go back to sleep right away.
This makes ZERO sense unless you don’t use sheets or each have a sheet set lol…
@@butwhytho4858 only a fitted sheet and mattress cover for us. We each change between different blankets depending on our individual needs that night. We move alot in our sleep and end up kicking the sheet down to the foot of the bed. so its no use for us.
If I get too hot, it triggers my digestive disorder so most of my blankets are on the thinner side. While my Wife's is bigger and thicker. then we each have a super thin blanket for the summer times. and each have a weighted blanket in different weights. Her due to restless legs. and myself with sensory issues but needing a lighter weight thanks to other medical conditions.
Some nights I need almost no blanket, while shes cold and bundled up. and same thing other way. shes restless and needs the weighted blanket and Im okay with my normal blanket.
I work in a hotel and you're right people do check into hotels to commit suicide. I think it's because they will be left alone in their room for a while, but also be discovered pretty fast too when they don't show up to check out. Though I would say that I find it mean to the staff to do so.
I think part of it is also just enjoying someplace presumably a lot nicer than their home for once before they check out without paying
Of course it's terribly inconsiderate to the staff, but at least the family doesn't have to find them. I'd rather find the body of a stranger than a loved one.
It also helps retain value on your home, since the family doesn’t need to deal with listing or explaining the death when they want to sell it.
If I was hotel staff, I’d cause it to backfire by typing a suicide note stating how they couldn’t live another day with their family (and bind the ghost to that room due to now unresolved issues 😂)
I'm glad DTU is doing this one back-to-back with 'Isdal woman' because I've always gotten their details mixed up somewhat, as there are lots of parallels.
As this episode progressed I genuinely wondered if this was a re-up where I had forgotten details, so I really appreciate your comment!!
This case is like a cross between the Artemis Oogletree case and the Isdal Woman case.
I'm 39 minutes in and I was already questioning the lack of gunpowder residue on her hand. Now I find out she fired it twice? And still no residue? I call BS. Perhaps Kevin will explain this as the exploration continues.
Hi 39 minutes in 😊 I'm Sean 😅
Yeah, as a Midwestern American part of a deer hunting family with a rifle and hunting gear currently in a closet within five feet of me, I can tell you that is literally impossible. Like 'violate the laws of physics' impossible. An aunt of mine got detained at the airport because they did one of those random 'test your hands for gunpowder' things and she had gunpowder on her hands because she'd gone hunting wearing a scarf, forgot about it, and wore it to her flight two days later and the gunpowder residue that had gotten on the scarf had transferred to her hands.
There is a third reason why the food would still be in her stomach after 20 hours; she had gastroparesis. It's a condition where food does not move through your systems because parts or all of your: esophagus, stomach or intestines do not contract to move the food along. So instead of your stomach emptying out in 4 to 6 hours, it could take 19 or more. If she didn't eat it as soon as it was delivered or ate a few bites in-between doing other things, the food would still be in her stomach. It is also common for those who have this condition to eat small amounts, hours apart. If she split it up into three meals an hour or two apart, this would make even sense. This condition causes severe stomach cramps and bloating. Eating small amounts at a time lessens the effects. 🌈⭐ Now you know. 😁
yup. I know this one all too well.
Simon is correct about the "incidentals" process for a cash payment. In the '90s, credit cards were nowhere near as common for this kind of transaction. A lot of the information that is stated in the story is drawn from the post-9/11 paranoia state. Prior to that, if a person paid for something with legal tender, no one cared who or what they were, especially in a place where very rich people might be doing things they didn't want to become common knowledge.
As for the gun being cobbled together from various parts: it's surprisingly common among surplus weapons, either from being traded around various NATO militaries (a richer country adopts a new weapon, passes on their old FN-made guns and spares to an ally who mixes parts with the ones they built domestically under license then later buys the new thing and passes their mixed old stuff on to a third country, who dumps what's left of all three different batches of pistols on the commercial surplus market when THEY upgrade) or just straight to surplus and civilians buy a cheap ex-military frame and replace/upgrade all the other parts.
its worth noting; Belgium notoriously had a robust clandestine firearms industry throughout the cold war era. Oftentimes weapons were assembled in a very ad hoc manner and regularly found their way into the hands of various terrorists, criminals, spies, etc...
Gunshot Residue: if she fired BOTH shots, I cannot believe there was no trace on her hands...
Just to chime in. I have worked at hotels, and can tell you that there is a good chance she had 3 or even 4 keys. When she extended her stay she was given new keys. Hotel workers are supposed to collect the old keys, but this isn't always done. (Most often it's because they left a key in their room, and it's not worth troubling the guest to go get it.) This means one of the keys in the room could have been an old one.
Oh, its very possible for eyeliner (some types less likely, pencil or gel more likely) to stay on for that long even through a shower. Even when you want to take it off.
.... ESPECIALLY when you want to take it off, it's like it knows.
Vaseline + qtip? I've been removing even stubborn liner this way for years but as for lash glue, I wait for that ish to fall off..combing it out feels like I'm plucking my eyelashes out too lol
The thing speaking against the spy theory is ironically the missing passport. A spy would have a fake passport, not draw attention to her identity by refusing to provide one.
As a OG James Bond and Mission Impossible fan I can confirm this.
Former Housekeeper here ... when I was a young twenty old I was working in a upscale hotel and Do not disturb sign was basically a yellow light to check to make sure no ones is dead and the room isnt trashed .. On a busy day we just walked on by..
As someone who worked in a hotel for a long time, we were supposed to take incidentals every time or send them away, i don't know how many times my boss had problems with my coworkers just ignoring policy. I'm sure this is what happened here. Lazy front desk worker ignoring policy for the sake of convenience.
Same when I worked at a hotel though we didn't have as much trouble with people not getting incidentals. We had people who would try to talk us into taking cash only. The main problem we had was people trying to sneak pets in to avoid paying the pet fee as we were pet friendly. Oddly enough when we pointed it out and asked if they wanted the fee for failing to declare pets for $200 or the $15 per pet fee, they would then choose to declare their pets. Lol
In my area of the USA:
Comforter= thick and puffy quilted blanket used in colder weather.
Bedspread = thinner and sometimes quilted or crocheted blanket used to make the bed look nice once it's been made.
Duvet= same as a bedspread but means you're possibly trying to sound more upper class than you are.😉
38:40 poorly maintained gun, unknown age of the gun, and there's no evidence that the gun was Jennifer's longterm. To me, it makes sense that someone in those circumstances would want to confirm the gun was operational. She may have even purchased it secondhand that same day
As a meat cutter for Costco, we test every single grind and it's definitely taken seriously. At my first job at unnamed large grocery chain common in the US southwest, allegedly we almost never did. ;)
Simon, comforter = duvet. The thing you're thinking of that doesn't get washed is called a bedspread, and it's mostly to keep the bed looking nice if the blankets underneath don't. Most people will turn the bedspread all the way down, since it's often of a decorative fabric not especially nice to the touch, so that's why it's usually felt it doesn't require frequent washing.
American comforters often don't have covers, but those will have synthetic fillings that can stand up to repeated washings. If it has a cover, many Americans will call it a duvet instead.
The point of confusion often encountered by Europeans meeting American bed-making habits for the first time is that a bed will have two layers of sheets on them, and you're expected to sleep between the sheets, not have the blanket directly covering your body.
Interesting. A comforter without a cover used with sheets and blankets sounds like a thing we used in UK before duvets were more commonly used. it was like a duvet, maybe a bit heavier, and went on top of a blanket and sheet. It was called an "eiderdown" as I suppose it was stuffed with duck feathers. It was never washed so far as I'm aware. The bedspread was thinner and lighter and went on top of this. It got an occasional wash! That at least is my understanding of it. Similar things and different terminologies I guess. We are, after all, two nations divided by a common language! 😊
I enjoy all of Simon, the writers and editors work across all the channels, but I really have to compliment Kevins writing on both just how engaging and how thorough it always is. Keep up the phenomenal work everyone!
The added notes and bits of research👍
I just love how the background music changes when simon goes kn a tangent or gives commentary
I really think you jumped over the best evidence for her being professionally taken care of. In 1995 the only people who would know you should take away the cosmetics and toothbrush, to council someone's identity, would be people with a very high understanding of DNA and forensic research.
Don't you think the body would have been a good source of DNA?
@@eadweard. Of course, but they counted on the body being buried and no blood being saved. The worries is of if the case will be reopened and evidence saved.
@@AvivElizabethHaddad Incoherent nonsense.
@@eadweard.The body was exhumed a few years ago & DNA taken. This is why officials know she was of East German descent.
@@eadweard.And you know this how, exactly?
A LOT of Norwegians are fluent in German. In the 90s English was a mandatory language in the school here while German was a popular elective language. So that the clerk said she spoke German with an eastern European accent I find believable.
I can confirm I met one guy in Norway who spoke very good German but other than that everyone spoke good English
I remember we could do either German or French as an elective language. I did both. These days Spanish is more popular I believe.
Former criminal attorney here! Just wanted to say that Fingerprints disappear on their own relatively quickly. If you loaded a gun it’s extremely unlikely that any prints would last on the bullets for more than even a few minutes. Just fyi
I'm a maintenance man at a double tree and my emergency key will 100% open a deadbolt on the entry doors. It has to have some kind of override in case someone inside is having a medical emergency or if the police need to enter for whatever reason.
I used to work security at a hotel, we had a tool to open the safety latch on the doors. Very useful since it wasn't hard to accidentally engage it if the door shut too hard. The deadbolt would disengage whenever the electronic lock activated (guest keys, housekeeping, maintenance, security, managers).
@@robertlewis8295 You know I was going to reply to you about how we got doors open with the swing bar and chain lock at the hotels I've worked at but then I thought maybe I shouldn't post that lol.
Just finished a Casual Criminalist video, checked my subs…this had been posted for 4 seconds! 😂
I worked in a 5 star hotel in australia in the late 90's and the rule was that on the third day of a DND (do not disturb) sign being hung we were told to knock and enter if no-one was there inorder to change the sheets and towels and give a cursory clean in the bathroom if needed. The idea was to be in and out quickly. If the person was in and answered the door and refused service we were to tell the housekeeper who would phone the room to organise a time to do the towels and sheets.
American here. While it is very unusual to have separate blankets for people sharing the same bed, I like Simon's explanation for the European practice. My husband and I use separate blankets, and night time has never been more peaceful! I'm generally needing more blankets than he is, while he runs hot all the time. So I can have up to three quilts on me at any given time and yet also be able to throw one off if needed, and it never affects his blanket. It's fantastic, and I highly highly recommend to any couple.
I have agorophobia and watching your content really helps calm me down. Thanks.
... and what with the Isdal woman? Also German, also false address, no labels in clothing, found murdered in Norway. Norway's not going to be my next holiday destination
It's fine as long as you're not German, and keep your clothing labels intact.
Just don't be a German woman who obscures her identity, travels decently light, and in general act like a soviet era spy.
I'm a German woman, brunette and small and I been to Norway in 2022 (round-trip and also Olso) I'm alive😂
@@jil4792Congratulations! 🎉
@@jil4792Want to date? Lol
Interesting and well presented. One thought that occurs to me is that the absence of critical personal items (cosmetics, tooth and hair brushes, underwear) say to me that her actual room was somewhere else, whether in the same hotel or not.
This was an amazing and intriguing listen and a very well written script, I'm definetly sus of Mr F and the staff, and the fact that the staff just yeeted evidence like that is WILD. But thank you to the DTU team and Simon for making work go with a touch of mystery, you all make my days better, so Thank You all for all the amazing content
I think the most likely theory is a variation of the prostitute theory: specifically that she was a high end prostitute who heard/saw/witnessed something she shouldn't have.
All the authority-evading behavior is consistent with being a prostitute not only for legal reasons but also because if her clients were powerful she may want to have precautions against them following her.
This theory also explains one important thing the spy theory does not: the missing bottoms. During that 20-hour window when she was gone she took her stuff to her client which included all her bottoms (perhaps her services included more topless activities and all the booms she had were lingerie/kinkwear. In that period she saw something she shouldn't have and escaped terrified, leaving her stuff behind. She didn't leave again because she was hiding, and tried to eat a bit but couldn't because she was too scared. Eventually whoever was after her found her and the rest is as Kevin said regarding the gun position, second bullet etc.
Pervy fan fiction.
I dont think prostitution was illegal in Norway in 1990s. And removing labels would certainly b overkill. Also removing serial no with acid is 100% overkill. I've never seen a gun coming from ur normal criminals that had it removed any other way than by filing it down (mill,file,grinder,etc). Acid is not something .... ehh... w8 a min!
I've seen this case in a Norwegian doc... I do not think it was removed by acid.. bcoz that would make no sense.. I actually think it was removed by milling.. just that they knew how deep they needed to go. Something the avg criminal usually didn't..
Bcoz I have no memory of acid... and in the other doc there was a Pic of the serial no area.. and I'm pretty sure it looked milled..
Also I'm not sure about the missing bottoms... I think she had a skirt on her.. the thing that was strange was that she had only 1 skirt but several blouses... I'm pretty sure she had skirt on if I remember the pictures correctly.
What about the two calls she made to two separate disconnected phone numbers? No info on how long these numbers had been disconnected & who they may have belonged to.
Seriously?
i mean i was overjoyed already seeing simon covering this case and the mr. whistler himself tops that with the phrase "my follicly challenged friends" and now i'm utterly and helplessly in love!:D (i'm a journalist/lecturer and can therefore appreciate wordplays probably a lot more than people working in other fields:)
1:55 - Mid roll ads
3:20 - Back to the video
4:25 - Chapter 1 - Checking into the hotel
15:10 - Chapter 2 - Establishing a timeline
32:45 - Chapter 3 - The evidence
54:45 - Chapter 4 - The investigation
1:04:30 - Chapter 5 - The theories
1:15:05 - Wrap up
I've worked in multiple hotels and at one of them, someone did pass away in the room. He had do not disturb on and wasn't due to check out immediately so we didn't know for DAYS and long story short we had to renovate the entire room. (It was determined he died of natural causes.)
Whenever someone that knew asked us if the hotel was haunted, we always said "we were very nice to him, he has no reason to haunt this place."
perfect timing, youve helped with my choice paralysis of what to watch!!☺️
Happy to help!
@@ThatWriterKevin OMG... They have wifi in the cellar...!?! 😀
@@hervigdewilde3599 shh don't let Simon know
Simon, you really need to be funding that time travel research for your writers. The people need to know this information!
Kevin just sits, silently in the background, taking notes as the situation plays out in real time. No interference, just fact finding
In the US the top/flat sheet is supposed to separate the person from a comforter similar to a duvet but I agree that at a hotel should use a duvet no matter what. In my own home, if I use a comforter, I still usually use a duvet and my flat sheet. I HAVE to have a flat sheet just to help regulate my body temp
I'm Norwegian so it's quite funny to hear you explain about duvets 😊
Wonderful story, well written and well read. Thank you
Gunshot residue on the hands is less common with semi-automatic pistols. It's more of an thing with revolvers since some of the exhaust gases are blown past the breach towards the hands.
Love all your channels. Watching all the old video. I think I know all casual criminalists. Always help me to fall asleep.
As an American. Always tip if you can, we’re all financially broke. Secondly, lock the top bolt latch to your hotel door, never trust the locks they use.
Great story as usual. I love the new glasses!!
My husband has worked in hotels his whole adult life, ~30 years, and no one has ever died in one of his hotels. However they did have to call the police to deal with a suicidal woman once
Whenever Simon says that cutting labels out of clothes is "spy shit" I just gasp at the idea that the things my sensory issues cause me to do could be interpreted as espionage.
Yup, can confirm. We're American and we lived in Germany for 3 years and loved the 2 duvet thing so much we've done it ever since, even after coming home to the US.
"i don't like green food", "I'm not a rabbit"!
Radisson Blu is the nice one, Simon. There’s one on the Bath Road, Hayes, right in view of Heathrow Airport, and it’s notorious for being a lovely environment and attracting upper class people
Lol I don't know if this is sarcasm because I never stayed there. Is it really nice? The Radisson Blu Gardmoen Oslo surprised me because it was actually nice by international standards. Norwegian hotels can be kind of utilitarian even if they're considered "luxe"
Been catching up on other RUclips’s but now I am finally back with Simon! Love the videos good sir!
This was so complicated I felt like I needed a chart.
I wouldn't call 9x19mm* "extremely powerful." It's pretty much the standard against which other handgun cartridges are rated -- more powerful than 9mm is good, less power than 9x19mm is adequate at best.
* -- there are uncountable cartridges that use a 9mm/.38" bullet, 9x19mm NATO/Luger/Parabellum is "the" 9mm (and it has four names!)
Was just about to comment this. Also I'd say that the way she was holding the gun was the way I'd expect someone to hold one to shoot their forehead.
The security guard guy waited like 15 minutes?
The hotel never got a credit card and was cool with it?
Loved this episode on Unsolved Mysteries.
No, it took him 15 minutes to phsically go and get support from the 28th floor, instead of calling it in over the radio.
My hangup, if it’s murder, is how was there a gunshot and no one saw anyone suspicious immediately leave in the next 15 minutes. On the 28th floor you’d think someone would have seen someone going down the stairs or elevator
@@amandam8609 how would anyone be suspicious, when no one heard anything? With 15 minutes, finding a way to slip out is pretty feasible.
@@amandam8609 But is it though? If I would hear a shot, I'd stay in my room, right. We don't know how many vacancies they had at the time and it is often the case that you will not meet anyone on your way between elevator and room. And literally nobody ever uses the staircase - it is there in case the elevator breaks down. So once you are through that door to the stairs, you not gonna encounter anyone on your way down. Why is nobody talking about the fact that as soon as the dude knocks on the door, she shoots herself? Can it be coincidence? Yes. But shooting yourself is not an easy step - as you muster the final courage the damn door gets knocked, maybe I would hold on, until what ever it is stopped bothering, or maybe it makes me snap out of it... Of course you can also take the view that once you are dead, hardly anything matters anymore... if it was murder though, you would not shoot while you have a witness at the door, isn't it? There is no escape other than through the door on the 28th floor... And where is all her personal crap? Did she take it with her when she stayed the night out and had left it at someone's place? Maybe she had an affair where she felt comfortable enough to stay, and leave her stuff? Very little is known here.
@@kaceydillin7367 if I was in a hotel and heard a gun shot I damn sure would be glued to the peephole. Also, just thought of this, isn’t having a do not disturb sign on the door mean no one could come in, why shoot a gun if you could just quietly wait it out. Logic aside, I secretly imagine the killer had one of those flying squirrel suits and just jumped out the window and glided away into the sunset
I swapped to a duvet earlier this year! My bedroom is the gathering place in my home for kids and critters so a duvet is considerably easier to clean than a comforter.
Yay! I was just looking for a video to watch/listen to. Hope all of you are well, thanks for the awesome timing 🎉
So the coroner thought she was in her 30s but she was 24. I could see that. I would imagine living in East Germany would prematurely age anyone.
Simon, you’ve been sounding really hoarse the last few weeks across your channels. Make sure you take care of yourself.
These videos were filmed months ago so I presume he’s ok 👌🏻✌🏻
Its all that sweet, sweet cocaine.
I have not heard him nay, like a horse in any of his videos this week.
He said it's because he's been eating too much overcooked popcorn.
He told me that.
It’s from little germ carriers (kids).
Thank you for all the hard work you do for Simon, and all of us Kevin. You are truly a legend.
Simon the disembodied head and arms is great
Simon and his MASSSSSSSIVE tablet
I don't think it's weird at all that her labels were removed from her clothes. I have always removed labels from my clothes because they either itch or tickle my skin; if I can I remove them stitch by stitch, if not I cut them out as close as possible. Also, I would not remove labels from jackets or luggage either, as they wouldn't be close to my skin. I'm sure other people have said this but I just wanted to add my two cents.
I love the previous episode on the Isdal woman it’s like “spies wouldn’t remove the labels from their clothes” and this one is “spies would totally remove the labels from their clothes” 😂
7:20 I work in tourism near new orleans and you get a good idea about accents when you see international tourists all the time.
I'm German and I can recognize all kinds of English accents. Also I recognize German accent when someone is talking in English what I think is the strange bc I most likely have that too.😂
I've bought a lot of ammo and never seen any sold in 37 ct boxes
The Browning Hi-Power has a 13 round magazine. 🤔
For those of you who still don't understand:
50-13=37
Ammo, specifically 9mm as is the subject matter, commonly can be purchased in 50 round boxes.
@@jonyemm it does beg the question of where the other rounds (presumably another magazine) were. If all they found were 25 rounds in the case and the (I'd assume) 11 remaining rounds in the handgun, where the other 12 rounds are and why doesn't the math add up if there was another magazine?
Let's fucking go!
Love the longform! Thanks!
I do house keeping for airbnbs and one of my co workers found a man how ended it with carbon monoxide in his car out front a property. I wasn't aware of this until after I cleaned the property. I cleaned up a man's last moments on earth and we had new people renting it within a week. I still clean that house and it freaks me out. The thought of cleaning someone's last actions on earth will haunt me forever
Megan Fox was horrible in that movie. But the voice actor of Patrick from SpongeBob was fucking hilarious
It’s not necessary to add “in that movie” to the end of the sentence “Megan Fox was horrible”.
The beginning of this makes me realize how different my life is sometimes; I've never paid more than 75 dollars a night for a hotel and 100 once in an emergency lol.
Hahah yeah when he said $350 was average and $600 was fair for a nice hotel I was like "well, I guess I'm just poor 😅" lol. The only time I'm paying for something that's $500+ a night is if it's an all inclusive resort that I'm sharing the room with, be it my husband or a best friend. But $500+ for JUST a hotel room? No way. I like to pay about $150-$200 a night for a nice hotel. $350 is a major splurge for me.
Lol. Where I live hotels at that rate come with free pets and roommates...
You must not have traveled for awhile. Sadly impossible to get anything that cheap anymore. Last month my husband and I spent a night on the road to another destination and stayed in a not so great motel, a tiny, odd smelling place with other people staying there who gave us the creeps right next to a busy road and a freeway entrance and the traffic kept us up all night - 88 dollars plus taxes and fees!
I love that whenever "labels have been removed from the clothes" comes up, they jump to the spy conclusion. Meanwhile I have sensory issues and meticulously remove every single label from every piece of clothing ever because they are itchy and scratchy and a sensory nightmare. I'm not a spy I just have autism 😂
As an American who owns, loves, and uses Browning Hi-Powers multiple times a week, I feel it is important to clarify that the name “Hi-Power” is derived from the fact that the magazine was capable of holding a (at the time) larger than normal capacity of bullets than a normal handgun. In fact, with them being a heavy, steel frame handgun chambered in 9mm, there’s actually very little recoil to them at all. Browning Hi-Powers also came with a factory installed safety that prevented the trigger from functioning while the magazine was not in the gun. Removing these is a very common procedure that many people do after acquiring one, if it hadn’t already been done, and it involves nothing more than about 5 minutes of work.
That Browning 9mm was just a 9mm. It wasn't overly powerful, 9mm just isn't. However that pistol is reliable. That's why it was somewhat popular. I had one years ago, and the maintenance on it is easy. I've since switched to Glock, because as I get older, I lean more to accuracy by volume.
I would make a couple of observations, given that I am a former soldier who carried the 9mm browning in the course of my duties.
Firstly, what isn't mentioned is that the weapon is clearly not a standard 9mm pistol, but rather a compact version. You can tell, because the standard barrel of that pistol, extends considerably further and on the standard 9mm, and there is a noticeable indentation on the underside of the front part of the barrel, which is absent from this version.
Intriguingly, there appears to be a rear sight on the weapon, but no front sight, which almost implies that the weapon was not originally a compact version of the gun, but rather shortened by a gunsmith. Unlike a shotgun, a person could not simply take to its barrel, with a saw to produce a "sawn off" version, because the top slide, barrel and frame, that includes the pistol grip are all separate components.
Having said this, the image is remarkably poor, so it is difficult to make out details, and I have no experience with compact versions of this weapon, so I cannot say if the missing front sight it significant.
However, this would be the kind of weapon that I could easily see someone carrying in a handbag, or such. Easily concealable.
Secondly, I am not really sure about there being any significance in the thumb still holding down the trigger. If I were to shoot myself in the forehead, this is actually the kind of way that would be natural to hold the gun, otherwise, I'd have to twist my hand backwards.
But from memory (and it has been over two decades since I picked one of these up), there isn't a particularly strong "return" on the trigger. I could easily see the loose skin from the thumb simply getting caught in the very small space between the bottom of the trigger and the trigger guard, holding it in place, as the hand naturally falls to the chest at the point of death.
People with more recent experience of this weapon can hopefully shed a bit more light on both of these observations.
Also, if I were a person who wanted to commit suicide (which I have during a number of points of my life), I'd do so in such a way as to make sure that nobody who knew me actually was aware that I had died. However, some people might still hope that their body would be found, identified, so that those who knew them understood their pain. Paradoxical I know, but unless you've been in that situation, it is a thought process that is very difficult to explain. Trust me when I say that when you are in this state of mind, all kinds of hopes, fears, and potential aftermaths are the focus of your thoughts. Will anybody care? Will you be missed? Can you teach those who put you in this situation, some final lesson, even as you escape your pain?
As such, if I were to self delete, all that would be found would be a body, and no identification, or other way of linking my identity to my body. Given that the time period was just after the cold war, obtaining a weapon like this would have been trivial, with someone with enough determination, and a reasonable amount of money.
I find the "spy" and "sex worker", theories far to much like a mindless hollywood excuse for a decision that far too many of us face. It fails to understand the psychology of someone who has been pushed to this point by the circumstances in their life. The latter also insults the memory of who this girl once was.
My own guess is that this poor woman only obtained the weapon during the 24 hours in which she was absent from the hotel. The fact that there were no fingerprints on the bullets, indicates that whomever gave them to her had cleaned them, but she only needed what was in the magazine. She had no reason to touch anything else that was in the case in which the gun was given to her.
The same with the firearm itself. When the police said that they couldn't get prints off the gun, it does not mean that there were no prints on the gun, it is just that guns like this, with their rough surfaces, are poor places to find fingerprints. Also, the natural slippage of her hand at the point of death, would have potentially smudged any that might have been retrievable, had she simply let go of the gun. Given that her hand is clearly on the gun in the picture, anyone claiming that this is something that matters, simply doesn't understand how fingerprinting works.
I can easily see her having already dumped her possessions, or at least those that might identify her. The final decision to kill yourself is one that takes considerable courage to overcome. The fear of non-existence, and the shutting off of potential opportunity, or a miracle that might somehow heal the hurt is great. Sometimes something as simple as knowing you have cats who would pine desperately for you, even after the humans who should, have thrown you on the trash, can be all it takes to stop that final irreversible act.
People who feel that way do not take the decision lightly. However, I can see her testing her newly acquired firearm, as described, this perhaps being the first time she has handled a gun, and then sitting on the end of her bed holding the gun, for hours, perhaps too afraid to take the final step, occasionally nibbling at food, until the inevitable knock on her door, which in an instant makes her decision for her. She knows why she is here. She knows that she must act now, or never, so in a matter of moments, she takes her own life.
Having travelled from parts of Europe that were only a few years before, behind the iron curtain, she has deliberately chosen this time and place, knowing that if anyone really cares about her, they will discover her fate, and mourn her passing, and be forced to face up to the reasons why she went down this road.
Unfortunately, nobody did miss her. Or at least not enough to join the dots, that would have lead from a lonely, potentially traumatised young woman to the Jane Doe of today's episode. Perhaps she hoped that the police in a country famed for its kindness would not just write off her entire life and existence as a "suicide", and not simply throw out the evidence that could have connected her to her family, and the people who had abandoned and traumatised her.
And yes. It sucks that I can put myself in the mind of this poor woman, but life is often far harder on some of us than it is on others. Whether it is isolation, rejection, or psychological trauma, far too many of us can relate to how this girl must have felt in her final days and hours. Even now, I know the grid square in which my body will lie undiscovered, should I ever find myself unable to bear the pain of this world.
So no. I don't believe that she was a spy, irrespective of how exciting, and mysterious that makes her death seem to those who have not been in her shoes. Far easier to imagine some exciting backstory, than what is statistically by far the most likely truth. Occam's razor and my own lived experience tell me that this was an entirely different kind of tragedy.
What a thoughtful and compassionate comment. Thank you.
19 seconds ago? Damn I must be up too early
Both writer and presenter are really good at what they do.
I've been SO waiting for this!!!!!!!!
In my opinion, the hard part of this case is that nobody came forward to claim this woman was their friend/sister/cousin, etc. This is a well-known case.
Yes, that is really heartbreaking.
The spy theory makes sense. I was initially dismissive of it, but the end swayed me a bit. Until then, I was more convinced by a version of the sex worker theory...
My thought was that she was kidnapped and sold into a set trafficking ring. She was probably young when kidnapped, so no one would recognize her as a grown up. Her initial stay was booked by someone in the ring, hence the English speaker. She then called to change the booking because her first client was going to meet her there. The man checked in with her, but was trying to be inconspicuous so as not to be noticed checking in with a set worker. He was probably American, or paid her with American dollars. She then had to exchange the payment, and Mr.F (or someone else in the ring who was staying nearby to keep an eye on her) stood near her to make sure she didn't steal any of the money.
Her time spent away was either with another client, or possibly an escape attempt.
She was then killed either due to the escape or because she stole something from a client or the ring. Or even because she was getting too old to be profitable in the way they wanted her to be.
Why did this convince me? Well, it could explain the kissing labels on the clothing. The set ring wanted her to look fancy, but didn't want her to be able to sell her nice clothes (or if something happened to her, for the cops to be able to trace her). It might explain her timing, and while mornings are not necessarily the most common time for a client, at a large hotel, near an airport, business men may just try to fit her in whenever it worked best.
Her room wasn't used much, as she would meet these men at their room or go out with them.
The time of her killing was that morning. She knew she was dead as soon as the man walked in her room. He forced her to take some sedative (diet soda) and she tried to choke down some cold bratwurst to either delay the effect or maybe was told to eat something to mask the drug in her stomach. She was killed while sedated, and as the man was cleaning the scene, there was a knock at the door. He shot the gun to scare the knocker away, he made a hasty retreat, leaving the items he hadn't already packed away.
There is a lot of overlap with the spy theory, but as Simon pointed out, spies are rare, but sex traffickers aren't. And making her an unwilling participant explains some of the holes Kevin and Simon found in the sex worker theory. Including the professionalism of the kill.
I also considered the idea that one of her clients was in organized crime and she made him angry, which also explains the clean kill, but would not explain why this client was in her room, unless the reason he was angry is that she had stolen something from him at their meeting and he tracked her down.
I used to work in hotel reception. I love how much faith Simon has in procedures being followed all the time. Let's just say all that went out the window any time we were busy and understaffed, which was practically every other day. 😂 Though I'm happy to say we never had any dead bodies.
Am I the only one who hears Simon trying to estimate the length of the episode and automatically starts adding minutes for tangents? But I love the tangents so I just make sure I listen when I have adequate time!
Without music, it would be much easier to actually listen to what Simon says.
I've mentioned so before. This video isn't as bad as others(though, that may be because I'm wearing headphones) where the background "music" actually makes it difficult for me to hear/understand what he is saying when Im there is ambient noise.
Personally i find it to be pretty pointless. Simon has a decent speed when he is reading. Its not like their are pauses as if he was trying to think of how/what to say and some background music is needed to keep simple folk, lacking their own thoughts, entertained.
I searched the channel for this case almost exactly a week ago. So excited.
I'm an American, my husband and I used to use separate covers because he liked to roll up like a burrito.
the jennifers body callout is just 10/10 thank you kevin
This is one of my favorite cases, and I absolutely agree with Kevin's theories!
Point of order: the author dramatically oversells the power and recoil of the Browning Hi Power.
It is a heavy service pistol, chambered in 9mm. The power is moderate and the recoil is mild.
2 duvets: having encountered this practice on a trip to Iceland, my husband and I (UK) replaced our double duvets with singles to our individual warmth preference. Trust me, it's a game-changer :)