The thing is that everyone was pretty salty and baelish used that. John arryn dead and he uses lysa to turn them against the lannisters, the assassin to turn bran from an accident to an attempted murder, turning cat towards tyrion, etc. He knew how to play the game and knew who he was playing with. He knew the lannisters were hot headed and the starks were honorable.
100% agree, so many people blame everything bad that happened on her. She def fucked up, and was too ruled by her emotions even if she seemed stoic. Like basically everyone else, she did what she thought was right, but her flaws, thirst for vengeance and emotions got the better of her.
She persuaded Ned Stark to go south and become hand of the king. She was played by Little finger and Lysa. She went to Kings Landing which gave information to Little finger and thus allowed Ned to trust him, which was a mistake. She then kidnapped Tyrion, because of information given to her by Little Finger which started the war of the five kings. She completely mucked up the talk between the Baratheon brothers. Even ended up being blamed for the death of Renly. Let Jaime go, which weakened her sons army and was the last straw for the Boltons. Her not being punished was a weakness that the Karstarks used as an excuse for their revenge, which led to the death of Rickon Karstark and the loss of the Karstarks. She told Rob that getting the Freys back was a great plan. Which led to her death as well as Rob. If you want to win in the game of thrones, do not have a Tully in your army.
When you look at it as a whole and objectively, she didn't do much wrong but she was easily manipulated and controlled by raw emotion. I have often wondered why Ned never told her about Jon's mother, it didn't make sense that if R+L=J to keep it a secret from her seeing how that just made his marriage worse and Jon's life worse. But had Ned told her, she could be easily manipulated by someone into spilling the beans and putting everyone in danger of Robert's Wrath!
When they got married, Ned did not know her, truly. Also, would you prioritize the safety of your children if that meant sending Jon to Kings Landing to stand the King's justice for the crimes of his biological father? Because I believe Cat would have no problem
Well, she could have planned it a lot better. She did something impulsive that put Tywin in the riverlands. Had she not done that she would have prevented a lot of deaths.
Agreed. Plus you’ve gotta put at least a bit of onus on Tywin for jumping to violence. He’s father in law to the king and it’s not like Catelyn’s got an iron-clad case against Tyrion. So if Tywin had calmed his tits and gone to King Robert, Bobby B most likely would have sided with the Lannisters on it. But Baelish was likely relying on Tywin’s pride and short sighted brutality to escalate things. So yeah, Catelyn didn’t help things but this war was not her fault.
Yo you should do a vidja on Pyat Pree and the Undying Ones in Qarth. I feel like there’s some bat shit stuff going on there in Essos with them and other magical people like Melisandre and Mirri Maz Duur. GRRM will boringly and casually say shit like “and oh yeah there’s a human heart floating above a pedestal in a room with undead specters I guess whatever” and then spend a paragraph describing some fat slaver eating a cheese plate
War was about to begin but she was responsible for involving House Stark in most of it. If she hadn't House Stark could have stayed in the North and avoided the whole thing.
Unrelated but a flaw I noticed in both Ned's and Jon's characters are that they didn't trust people they should have trusted. Ned with Catelyn, Sansa (he should have made Sansa understand the dangers early on) and Robert. Jon did the same with all his friends. Both kept their enemies closer and deliberately send off trustworthy people away- Ned chipped away his own guards, always giving away 20 or 50 men away for missions.
The thing is that everyone was pretty salty and baelish used that. John arryn dead and he uses lysa to turn them against the lannisters, the assassin to turn bran from an accident to an attempted murder, turning cat towards tyrion, etc. He knew how to play the game and knew who he was playing with. He knew the lannisters were hot headed and the starks were honorable.
I thought pretty much everyone agreed that Baelish was the driving force behind pretty much everything behind the scenes
if you look at the comments on Tiktok then the answer is no
100% agree, so many people blame everything bad that happened on her. She def fucked up, and was too ruled by her emotions even if she seemed stoic. Like basically everyone else, she did what she thought was right, but her flaws, thirst for vengeance and emotions got the better of her.
She persuaded Ned Stark to go south and become hand of the king. She was played by Little finger and Lysa.
She went to Kings Landing which gave information to Little finger and thus allowed Ned to trust him, which was a mistake.
She then kidnapped Tyrion, because of information given to her by Little Finger which started the war of the five kings.
She completely mucked up the talk between the Baratheon brothers. Even ended up being blamed for the death of Renly.
Let Jaime go, which weakened her sons army and was the last straw for the Boltons.
Her not being punished was a weakness that the Karstarks used as an excuse for their revenge, which led to the death of Rickon Karstark and the loss of the Karstarks.
She told Rob that getting the Freys back was a great plan. Which led to her death as well as Rob.
If you want to win in the game of thrones, do not have a Tully in your army.
When you look at it as a whole and objectively, she didn't do much wrong but she was easily manipulated and controlled by raw emotion.
I have often wondered why Ned never told her about Jon's mother, it didn't make sense that if R+L=J to keep it a secret from her seeing how that just made his marriage worse and Jon's life worse.
But had Ned told her, she could be easily manipulated by someone into spilling the beans and putting everyone in danger of Robert's Wrath!
When they got married, Ned did not know her, truly. Also, would you prioritize the safety of your children if that meant sending Jon to Kings Landing to stand the King's justice for the crimes of his biological father? Because I believe Cat would have no problem
Well, she could have planned it a lot better. She did something impulsive that put Tywin in the riverlands. Had she not done that she would have prevented a lot of deaths.
The man that caused harm to your family is in front of you and you'll let them go?
Agreed.
Plus you’ve gotta put at least a bit of onus on Tywin for jumping to violence. He’s father in law to the king and it’s not like Catelyn’s got an iron-clad case against Tyrion. So if Tywin had calmed his tits and gone to King Robert, Bobby B most likely would have sided with the Lannisters on it. But Baelish was likely relying on Tywin’s pride and short sighted brutality to escalate things.
So yeah, Catelyn didn’t help things but this war was not her fault.
Yo you should do a vidja on Pyat Pree and the Undying Ones in Qarth.
I feel like there’s some bat shit stuff going on there in Essos with them and other magical people like Melisandre and Mirri Maz Duur.
GRRM will boringly and casually say shit like “and oh yeah there’s a human heart floating above a pedestal in a room with undead specters I guess whatever” and then spend a paragraph describing some fat slaver eating a cheese plate
I agree.
War was about to begin but she was responsible for involving House Stark in most of it. If she hadn't House Stark could have stayed in the North and avoided the whole thing.
Ned had told her to prepare for war because he knew it was going down. The Tyrion thing only sidetracked her from that original mission
She's the Gavrilo Princip of Westeros 😅
Unrelated but a flaw I noticed in both Ned's and Jon's characters are that they didn't trust people they should have trusted. Ned with Catelyn, Sansa (he should have made Sansa understand the dangers early on) and Robert. Jon did the same with all his friends. Both kept their enemies closer and deliberately send off trustworthy people away- Ned chipped away his own guards, always giving away 20 or 50 men away for missions.
Now, Catelyn is one of the most competent people politically in the series and did well based on known information