That is a Silver League build, my friend. I do this all the time because I don't know how to micro or build units. If you want to really use Silver League tactics, do a third base with cannons and batteries, defend with Zealots to save up gas, and go into carriers. You guys on the NA ladder know what I'm talking about. Don't you? Admit it.
Imagine at GM level these silver tactics are unheard of. Be like. Whoah, there's a thing called walking. We have space ships, we never thought about using our feet to go places. ^_^
Looks a little like the classic maxpax build just instead of void rays it focuses on minerals and cannons. Advantage is you don't need to micro cannons. Disadvantage is that cannons do nothing, if your opponent decides to simply contain you on two bases.
Harstem opens with a greedy build, and knowing that a cannon rush beats a greedy build, his instincts kick in and he cannon rushes himself. The result is this beautiful strategy. I particularly love the 14 Nexus
6:00 the proper solution is not headbutting into a build that requires 3 cannons and 1 shield battery per base, a zerg can take a gold and 2 other bases with that money
I am not a proffessional player, but i tried out this build, managed to build second nexus at 00:37, with the same wall and managed to defend the zerg aggression with a few stalker and several cannon and with the 2 base, i managed to transition into Stalker blink + Carrier , before the zerg tried to expand all over the map. I admit it, it is on the silver ladder on eu, but it worked for me :D
Oh my god that first game. Never once assaulted or sent an offensive unit to his enemy's base nor moved out even once. That was incredible to watch, you have so much eco!
Receiving an all-in with this type of build is somewhat the best case scenario because of course defensive structures are meant to deal with such an attack. The problem is the cannons cannot move like units and because of this, you will typically be the defender and not the aggressor. The opponent should use their map control to start expanding, the main goal for them is to apply light pressure to keep you from expanding to a third base, while expanding themselves. If they can get to an equal economy, eventually you will mine out and lose all presence on the map due to the large investment in cannons instead of army.
I maybe should have scrolled down here before commenting about the same. Once the opponent gets over his instinct to all in because of the fast nexus, he will be able to contain contain you and expand safely himself.
You guys are ignoring the fact that despite the static defense, Harstem is WAY ahead in economy because of the super fast nexus. Even if you double expand, you will be behind in workers for a while. And you can't contain someone with a superior economy for several minutes.
@@SPQR_14 It is possible to contain them as their extra spending on probes and nexus needs to be reimbursed before it sees count into army units, as well as several more minutes worth of income that was sunk into cannons But you don't need to contain them, the point is to stop them from expanding aka kill their nexi, and get to equal economy not ahead.
But in that last game he was building a third nexus while being all-ined. As soon as you stop the pressure Harstem just expands before his opponent can even afford to and will have more units
me looking at the build, it looks like walling is a mistake because you don't have the units to protect the buildings and you lose them if they are out of canon range. So use the canons more by building the forge and gateway behind it.
The answer to the cannon turtle seems obvious. Just outexpand the two nexi turtle. Get only slightly better unit production but cut the cannons and you should be quite ahead when the turtle starts moving. At least that is what I believe why it isn't a popular build on the highest level. I only works as long as the opponent keeps attacking into it. As the standard response to greed seems to be aggression, the build might even get some surprise wins in a high level tournament.
PvT build for greediest man. Initially it's PartinG's original 17 nexus into triple gate pressure adept pressure- it is important you keep the adepts alive, losing 1 is fine but no more than that. The greedy part is this: Before you warp in your adepts, you start a third base and twilight council for charge. The rest is stylistic choice but I'll put what I suggest and sometimes do myself below: You can take a second gas at after your first adept warp in round (you should have 5 adepts) for double forge upgrades, however this is bill gates, so maybe go triple forge instead. Go up to 7 gateways and keep your unit warp ins to a minimum, we rely on high gateway count to more fluidly respond to pressure for the next few minutes rather than a standing army. Grab a quick 4th base and continue the greed, a bit like the super low gas Has style we see him occasionally play. Add gateways and expand accordingly. Gasses can be added for a zealot/blinkDT army for extra fun :)
can someone explain to me: if you see this 14 nexus with a wall off, why even push into it? why not counter counter expand since they are stuck inside for a little bit?
Protoss can easily go 8 gate with prism on 2 bases then you won't be able to defend any of it. I think the hardest counter is 1 base proxy tempest supported by stalkers, just build batteries outside the wall and directly blast it. Expand after destroying all buildings in the expo.
My counter to this strategy in m3 is usually just double oracle and faking stalker pokes with 2-4 stalkers and getting 3 base forge on 2 oracle's and 4 units, oracle's either forcing mineral line cannons or the stalkers to stay home so the third is always faster and then just playing a macro game from there. Any thoughts? (The reason I go oracle is I blindly open proxy oracle every game)
6354 by actually just being as greedy as possible is mental, sounds like an actual build you could use in tournaments - tho now they would know whats coming
For 15 nexus I think the earlier nexus timing puts you one probe ahead of 17 nexus after you start producing from your natural due to the earlier nexus finish time and early chrono, but with less early money due to the lack of mineral mining in the main base while cutting workers for the nexus. I would bet 14 nexus is probably a nexus before core and a 17 nexus.
When I started SC2 back in 2020 I used to make 14 Nexus but cause of my lack of experience at the time I got my ass kicked multiple times now I thanks to this vid I know what I used to do wrong, as I have lost the replays due to hdd failures I couldn't go back to review the replays once I build up sufficient knowledge and skill but I do remember how I played 😂😂
I remember seeing a viewer game where someone opened with something like forge + nexus + nexus + nexus only defending with probes + turrets and only started gateways a few minutes in. But I can't remember if it was iodis or another content creators cast ...
I was thinking about how to beat this. The downside of it is you obviously put so much resources into static defence. Maybe just contain the greedy player, prevent him from taking third, and expand behind, slowly catching up and then surpassing the greedy players economy?
Do they gg because they figure the game will go on long enough that they could get more ladder points by winning two games in the same time that a single game would take against you? Or does the fact that you could hold off their attacks tell them that you're not just going to stay turtled up and that they're not good enough to overcome your economy with superior tactics and micro?
They GG because they tried to beat his greed through low eco aggression and failed. They know that from there on out, they will be way too behind in economy and will just 100% lose as soon as he counter attacks.
Nice game. In your last build you went phenix immortal, a little bit of early air might have supplied easy non-committal early game harass is this a transition that would work high tier I wonder. GG Captain.
I think that is the weak spot of the build. Once your opponent decides to not kill himself into you, you're in trouble. At this point cannons and batteries are just a waste. Still going for faster air wouldn't allow for the same mineral heavy play. Optimizing the build so that you get fast air to either pressure or help defend and you'll probably end up with maxpax's classic.
Dt voidray vs zerg use dt or stasis as zealot replacement in the wall. That way they say oh look lings can get in the main base, he left his wall open.
I tried this against AI and obviously messed up epic because of how bad I am. Then I rewatched really closely to at least understand how it is supposed to work. Sadly comparing game one and two I think the 14 nexus does nothing. It seems like the worker production you get from the faster nexus is about the same that you cut to get the fast nexus. So at about 1:20ish in the game 14 nexus and 15 nexus is the same.
Greedy Idea You proxy an expansion on a map corner and just hope it never gets scouted. No static defense, no army, just saturate workers, and also hope to get scouted so they think they are in danger and commit to defenses
After 10 years the Toss brain finally understood: to defeat the enemy, one must become like the enemy! So, expand like Zerg, turtle like Terran. Now Toss is at last OP
I definitely feel like if you see that your opponent is blindly building canons staying on one base is one of the worst possible calls to make. The turtling player in this scenario pretty much self-containing himself and is unlikely to move out in the next couple of minutes. Getting 2 more bases so the income is in your favour and just keep enough enough troops to keep the turtling player on 2 seems like the better option to me ^^'
@@greenlitlleman Seems like it would give you a far better chance than staying on one base and running your troops into a player who is only interested in building static defence at the moment ^^' The cannons are already cost effective at defence, let alone when the defending player has double the income ^^'
until the 14 min mark a contain is exactly what he wants. These opponents haven't demonstrated a successful break of this turtle shell, nor a successful contain. Using void rays to do it actually would have the opponent with less units for cut-off teams if containing was their priority. Beyond 14 mins the main and natural are going to be starting to run out of minerals, and then this devolves into a shit show, for sure...
It would take awhile to catch-up in eco since he's going 14! Nexus and Harstem does scout, so if his opponent goes like 2 gate opener into 2 nexus, they can just die to stalker immortal
This seems greedy indeed. However not greedy enough. On one LagTV episode one guy pulled off a 13 nexus before gate. Not nexus on 13 supply, literally 13 nexi before gate. And even more bafflingly won.
Christ, even with harstems charisma its impossible to make protoss vs protoss matches watchable. Its like blizzard bottled all of their boredom and lack of imagination into that one race.
I reached GM about 2014. I played several games againist this players, i know this lvl. And i dont understand, HOW THE F**k someone can play like this and constantly speaking :D
i have never seen him win this many games in one video
18:08
Merciless
That is a Silver League build, my friend. I do this all the time because I don't know how to micro or build units.
If you want to really use Silver League tactics, do a third base with cannons and batteries, defend with Zealots to save up gas, and go into carriers.
You guys on the NA ladder know what I'm talking about. Don't you? Admit it.
exactly
Imagine at GM level these silver tactics are unheard of. Be like. Whoah, there's a thing called walking. We have space ships, we never thought about using our feet to go places. ^_^
i smell ya
The real chad move is going nexus first into a cannon rush.
Doesn't this get absolutely destroyed half the time in silver league since everyone is canon rushing?
Harstem discovers turtle PvP.
*Terran PvP
discovers how I've played Toss for well ever..
Looks a little like the classic maxpax build just instead of void rays it focuses on minerals and cannons.
Advantage is you don't need to micro cannons. Disadvantage is that cannons do nothing, if your opponent decides to simply contain you on two bases.
@@Diogenes2077 cannon mobility is rather lacking..
Harstem opens with a greedy build, and knowing that a cannon rush beats a greedy build, his instincts kick in and he cannon rushes himself. The result is this beautiful strategy. I particularly love the 14 Nexus
0:27 Hamster is a legend 😂😂😂
I thought Hamster only edits the IODIS and those extra series like quiz and the rest is by Harstem itself
can't believe that guys blunked in twice instead of seeing the build and instantly transitioning to ultra greed (3+ bases while faking map control)
Blink blank blunk
I like your idea.
blonk blank blenk blunk
Yes, very good idea, I do exactly that against Terran' CC first. I take a very greedy 3rd base instantly and he can't do anything about it.
bloink
Seeing the quick nexus melts the protoss brain and all they can think about is all ins
lol so true. It legit happened every time and they could never close it before Harstem's eco kicked in
Dat warp prism micro at 18:03 was so satisfying
18:03 minute micro pays off!!!
6:00 the proper solution is not headbutting into a build that requires 3 cannons and 1 shield battery per base, a zerg can take a gold and 2 other bases with that money
This was awesome. We definitely need to see 14 nexus vs Z and T now.
it wont work
I'm diamond NA, play 15 nexus, and it straight up loses to any early form of reaper play.
ravager
@@MrTheadol 12 pool says hello. 😂
"Aggression through money, that's what we want here." 9:09
10:34 how do you get that high an mmr being that impatient?
You fool, Harstem. You don't grow a beard by not shaving. You grow a beard by being a dedicated revolutionary marxist.
That first game was pretty much Harstem playing tower defense, building the route the opponent has to take and surrounding it with turrets.
I am not a proffessional player, but i tried out this build, managed to build second nexus at 00:37, with the same wall and managed to defend the zerg aggression with a few stalker and several cannon and with the 2 base, i managed to transition into Stalker blink + Carrier , before the zerg tried to expand all over the map. I admit it, it is on the silver ladder on eu, but it worked for me :D
Wait so you're telling me the mmr on his greediest man alive account is higher than his main account?
Harstem plays better when he's not trying to win.
No he said his main alt account TheCowboy
its good to be greedy
@@michaellochlann4797it's harder to make a new strategy than to learn a few good strategies
Oh my god that first game. Never once assaulted or sent an offensive unit to his enemy's base nor moved out even once. That was incredible to watch, you have so much eco!
Receiving an all-in with this type of build is somewhat the best case scenario because of course defensive structures are meant to deal with such an attack. The problem is the cannons cannot move like units and because of this, you will typically be the defender and not the aggressor. The opponent should use their map control to start expanding, the main goal for them is to apply light pressure to keep you from expanding to a third base, while expanding themselves. If they can get to an equal economy, eventually you will mine out and lose all presence on the map due to the large investment in cannons instead of army.
I think this build is really meant to rush out carriers haha
I maybe should have scrolled down here before commenting about the same.
Once the opponent gets over his instinct to all in because of the fast nexus, he will be able to contain contain you and expand safely himself.
You guys are ignoring the fact that despite the static defense, Harstem is WAY ahead in economy because of the super fast nexus. Even if you double expand, you will be behind in workers for a while. And you can't contain someone with a superior economy for several minutes.
@@SPQR_14 It is possible to contain them as their extra spending on probes and nexus needs to be reimbursed before it sees count into army units, as well as several more minutes worth of income that was sunk into cannons But you don't need to contain them, the point is to stop them from expanding aka kill their nexi, and get to equal economy not ahead.
But in that last game he was building a third nexus while being all-ined. As soon as you stop the pressure Harstem just expands before his opponent can even afford to and will have more units
Harstem, you revolutionized PvP ... 14 Nexus and other Nexi 1st in all my PvP from both players is the new standard in EU Dia
Wait until he figures out he can have 3 nexus before core and still hit with a +1 charge lot hit by 4:30
"..I could be wrong of course, I've only been playing this game for 13 years. Did he just use all of his disruptor energy?" 😅
When that intro sounds like a buzzfeed article headline, you know it's gonna be good.
✅ Snacks
✅ Comfortable blanket
0:26 as a chess player, what this is actually called is “fucking stupid, so stupid it might actually work”
HOLY SHIT! I had to try this. its soo good
thanks Harstem! keep killing it!
I lost my mind at 18:00 with thr god level warp prism immortal micro... 🥵🤤
Same! That was sexy as hell, ngl
me looking at the build, it looks like walling is a mistake because you don't have the units to protect the buildings and you lose them if they are out of canon range. So use the canons more by building the forge and gateway behind it.
The answer to the cannon turtle seems obvious.
Just outexpand the two nexi turtle.
Get only slightly better unit production but cut the cannons and you should be quite ahead when the turtle starts moving.
At least that is what I believe why it isn't a popular build on the highest level. I only works as long as the opponent keeps attacking into it.
As the standard response to greed seems to be aggression, the build might even get some surprise wins in a high level tournament.
PvT build for greediest man.
Initially it's PartinG's original 17 nexus into triple gate pressure adept pressure- it is important you keep the adepts alive, losing 1 is fine but no more than that.
The greedy part is this:
Before you warp in your adepts, you start a third base and twilight council for charge. The rest is stylistic choice but I'll put what I suggest and sometimes do myself below:
You can take a second gas at after your first adept warp in round (you should have 5 adepts) for double forge upgrades, however this is bill gates, so maybe go triple forge instead. Go up to 7 gateways and keep your unit warp ins to a minimum, we rely on high gateway count to more fluidly respond to pressure for the next few minutes rather than a standing army. Grab a quick 4th base and continue the greed, a bit like the super low gas Has style we see him occasionally play. Add gateways and expand accordingly. Gasses can be added for a zealot/blinkDT army for extra fun :)
None of the opponents realized the real gigachad counter to this: a fast fourth nexus
I won't let this greed change me, I'm better than that.
I'm better than everyone. I'm rich as hell now.
7:20 It's not random, the oldest unit shoots first. He's probe was the oldest of the two.
Nope + wrong. Its random.
Great episode! Really cool build.
What should you do if the other protoss do proxy robo with imortal or fast prysm ?
does proxy oracle beat this since cannon can’t defend??
This is a great build. You will have to pull this out in a tournament. They won't know how to react.
Edit: I was wrong because of the random delay it's random which unit attacks first.
all attacks get random delay up to 0.0625 seconds, even workers. its rng
@@Kingof4pples Thanks I double checked and stand corrected you are right. I guess whoever told me this also didn't know what he was talking about :x
can someone explain to me: if you see this 14 nexus with a wall off, why even push into it? why not counter counter expand since they are stuck inside for a little bit?
Protoss can easily go 8 gate with prism on 2 bases then you won't be able to defend any of it.
I think the hardest counter is 1 base proxy tempest supported by stalkers, just build batteries outside the wall and directly blast it. Expand after destroying all buildings in the expo.
Harstem the micro chad at 18:00
My counter to this strategy in m3 is usually just double oracle and faking stalker pokes with 2-4 stalkers and getting 3 base forge on 2 oracle's and 4 units, oracle's either forcing mineral line cannons or the stalkers to stay home so the third is always faster and then just playing a macro game from there.
Any thoughts? (The reason I go oracle is I blindly open proxy oracle every game)
6354 by actually just being as greedy as possible is mental, sounds like an actual build you could use in tournaments - tho now they would know whats coming
Hi Harstem, would you make a video guide about your recent nexus before core into sentry first fast 3rd nexus PvT build?
love the safty blink song
For 15 nexus I think the earlier nexus timing puts you one probe ahead of 17 nexus after you start producing from your natural due to the earlier nexus finish time and early chrono, but with less early money due to the lack of mineral mining in the main base while cutting workers for the nexus. I would bet 14 nexus is probably a nexus before core and a 17 nexus.
I have a whole protoss game history showing this build harstem
When I started SC2 back in 2020 I used to make 14 Nexus but cause of my lack of experience at the time I got my ass kicked multiple times now I thanks to this vid I know what I used to do wrong, as I have lost the replays due to hdd failures I couldn't go back to review the replays once I build up sufficient knowledge and skill but I do remember how I played 😂😂
You need to keep at least some scouting - halucination so you are aware of any third your opponent might be pulling before you.
I remember seeing a viewer game where someone opened with something like forge + nexus + nexus + nexus only defending with probes + turrets and only started gateways a few minutes in. But I can't remember if it was iodis or another content creators cast ...
I was thinking about how to beat this. The downside of it is you obviously put so much resources into static defence. Maybe just contain the greedy player, prevent him from taking third, and expand behind, slowly catching up and then surpassing the greedy players economy?
The singing harstem phase is godly
is this build still good against orracle build?
Reminds me of the 14 nexus 17 forge build from WoL times
Nice. I like it. Turtle-toss?
Leave 1 probes outside the wall so you can build some canons outside the wall.
Nice build! (I have to admit that immediately 😂)
But what about it against Z or T? Please Captain, we need that input!
probes are literally one of the strongest fighting units you can build ... except for terran units obviously.
looks like an awesome build but I think it might need some of your skill captain, I mean for it to actually.
Do they gg because they figure the game will go on long enough that they could get more ladder points by winning two games in the same time that a single game would take against you?
Or does the fact that you could hold off their attacks tell them that you're not just going to stay turtled up and that they're not good enough to overcome your economy with superior tactics and micro?
They GG because they tried to beat his greed through low eco aggression and failed.
They know that from there on out, they will be way too behind in economy and will just 100% lose as soon as he counter attacks.
Nice game. In your last build you went phenix immortal, a little bit of early air might have supplied easy non-committal early game harass is this a transition that would work high tier I wonder. GG Captain.
I think that is the weak spot of the build. Once your opponent decides to not kill himself into you, you're in trouble.
At this point cannons and batteries are just a waste.
Still going for faster air wouldn't allow for the same mineral heavy play.
Optimizing the build so that you get fast air to either pressure or help defend and you'll probably end up with maxpax's classic.
Alternatively I'd suggest hiding a probe on the map before closing the wall and just proxy a gate if the opponent tries to simply outgreed you.
P.s. apparently immortal + charge is considered more viable than immortal + phoenix.
thanks for all the feedback! :)
Dt voidray vs zerg use dt or stasis as zealot replacement in the wall. That way they say oh look lings can get in the main base, he left his wall open.
I tried this against AI and obviously messed up epic because of how bad I am.
Then I rewatched really closely to at least understand how it is supposed to work.
Sadly comparing game one and two I think the 14 nexus does nothing.
It seems like the worker production you get from the faster nexus is about the same that you cut to get the fast nexus.
So at about 1:20ish in the game 14 nexus and 15 nexus is the same.
Greedy Idea
You proxy an expansion on a map corner and just hope it never gets scouted. No static defense, no army, just saturate workers, and also hope to get scouted so they think they are in danger and commit to defenses
Very nice build, just disorient the opponent through naked greed. They'll tilt themselves into an all in.
The greedy man wants nexi. Maybe greediest man can explore individual greeds. Like being zealot-greedy.
I wana see this against T or Z, surely it won't work!?
After 10 years the Toss brain finally understood: to defeat the enemy, one must become like the enemy!
So, expand like Zerg, turtle like Terran. Now Toss is at last OP
Well done Bill!
Harstem that stuff is not new in lower leagues many people do that stuff. We just execute it in a bad way.
I definitely feel like if you see that your opponent is blindly building canons staying on one base is one of the worst possible calls to make. The turtling player in this scenario pretty much self-containing himself and is unlikely to move out in the next couple of minutes. Getting 2 more bases so the income is in your favour and just keep enough enough troops to keep the turtling player on 2 seems like the better option to me ^^'
The thing is - you can do two base push and your opponent with three bases and slower natural will have no chance.
@@greenlitlleman Seems like it would give you a far better chance than staying on one base and running your troops into a player who is only interested in building static defence at the moment ^^'
The cannons are already cost effective at defence, let alone when the defending player has double the income ^^'
awesome build
Counter: Fake Aggression into 3 Nexus
I think its probably not that good against a gate expand into like 2 base blink. Because then he can contain you while he just builds workers too
When your skill go full circle and land right back in bronze.
That was great, video ended too soon :)
Does our captain have a Dutch name? Like Diederik. Or is it just Billy Kev
His name is Kapitein
It's now fast expand forge
cheesiest man alive version that goes straight into a cannon rush or contain.
"That's higher than my MMR on my other account" - already has even higher MMR on this current account.
Damn sick thumbnail
keep playing this, keep optimizing it
Haha that's funny. I tried few times 14 nexus becouse at the first my pylon were so late that I made it look like it was on purpose
amazing micro
BillGates 😂😂😂
But can you win with this build when you aren't playing against the most nerfed race? :)
I go 14 pylon 15 nexus 16 gateway 17 gateway 18 core 19 to a zealot sentry rush.
Couldn't someone just contain you with voids and batteries?
until the 14 min mark a contain is exactly what he wants. These opponents haven't demonstrated a successful break of this turtle shell, nor a successful contain. Using void rays to do it actually would have the opponent with less units for cut-off teams if containing was their priority. Beyond 14 mins the main and natural are going to be starting to run out of minerals, and then this devolves into a shit show, for sure...
You probably can beat this by being even more greedy and not all-inning at the spot.
It would take awhile to catch-up in eco since he's going 14! Nexus and Harstem does scout, so if his opponent goes like 2 gate opener into 2 nexus, they can just die to stalker immortal
Still better chances than charging into cannons
This seems greedy indeed. However not greedy enough. On one LagTV episode one guy pulled off a 13 nexus before gate. Not nexus on 13 supply, literally 13 nexi before gate. And even more bafflingly won.
Except that won't work on 6300 MMR, ever.
Forge fast expand is back 🤭🤭
Christ, even with harstems charisma its impossible to make protoss vs protoss matches watchable.
Its like blizzard bottled all of their boredom and lack of imagination into that one race.
love you Harstem
18:48 real compositions are for poor people
I do but i do it on 15 probes
Harstem just wants to be a zerg.
I am in the Netherlands from the US, wya lol
But when I tried 4 times ... and lose 4 times 😁
fire video
Played the video at 1.5 times normal speed. There was no difference in Kevin's performance....
I reached GM about 2014. I played several games againist this players, i know this lvl. And i dont understand, HOW THE F**k someone can play like this and constantly speaking :D