Smaller Wheels, More Fun? 650B VS 700C
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- So what are 650B wheels and are they really more fun to ride? We took to the gravel roads of Wales to find out.
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Our mates over at Zipp have just lent us these rather cool bikes to check out their new 303 Firecrest wheels which are available in a smaller size. 650b. If you’re a road rider, you probably haven’t ever had to think about wheel sizes much, if at all. Road bikes have what are called 700c wheels, and that’s pretty much that.
But increasingly, there is an alternative. This smaller alternative, called 650b. They are an interesting proposition, they potentially help to improve the design of smaller bikes, but then there is also a new crop of bikes that use this size to give way more versatility, but maintain agility and speed by pairing Smaller rims with bigger tyres. The promise is that they can make drop bar bikes more fun.
We can’t wait to give them a proper go. On road, off road, uphill and down. What’s all the fuss about?
WHAT’S 650B?
Well let’s back up a bit before we start talking about fun, you can be excused for not knowing what on earth we’re talking about. So what is it?
A 650b wheel has a diameter of 584mm. A 700c wheel has a diameter of 622mm. And yes, the names are confusing, we’ll unearth that mystery a little later on.
The concept for improving smaller bikes is a simple one, you don’t have to make sacrifices to the geometry in order to squeeze bigger wheels under the rider, but what’s with the fun thing?
Well it too is a simple idea. Smaller diameter rims allow you to fit bigger tyres while still keeping the overall diameter the same size as a road wheel. This gives the same geometry and handling characteristics as a normal road bike, but the added tyre width means that you are not restricted to the road. Not at all in fact.
Or at least that’s the theory. Until Zipp lent us a pair of their new 650b 303 Firecrest tubeless disc wheels we’d never had the opportunity to try. They are tubeless compatible, disc specific and they have the super aero Firecrest shape.
As you can tell by the fact that we’re squeaky clean, we still haven’t tried them so to put that right we’ve planned another epic GCN gravel ride!!!!!!!! We’re going to tick something off the bucket list. Riding up there.
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![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
Be sure to check out the GCN Tech 650B Geek Edition for more here gcntech.co/650bgeek
Global Cycling Network I don’t have a bike that has that wheel size but it does look intriguing!
If you want a roadbike with big tyre clearance you could take a look into geometry charts and buy a XC mountainbike frame and then put your roadbike components on it. Some purists might want to kill you for that but that is a risk you will have to take.
Can you guys please do a video where you take a bike with 700C*35 on the front and 650B*50mm in the back? Whats that like?
Global Cycling Network I've just repaired a 1995 Claud Butler and I had to remove the old tyres. It is incredible that a rigid mountain bike from that period has the same tyre width as a 650b give or take.
I would find it interesting if there was Modern gravel bike vs retro rigid mountain bike.
'Lana caprina' -
Is there a refund n this ?
One of my favorite vintage build options was to take a decent steel frameset designed for 27" wheels and mount a 700x40c wheelset instead. Now my daily rider is a 650b conversion of a 700c frameset, and I've found that everything they say about preserving road handling characteristics is true. Even if you don't do any offroad riding, you may find them far more comfortable on your road commuter.
Taxi Rob thanx for the tip mate.
So John Tomac with his drop bar Yeti's & Raleigh's circa 90/91 had it right all along.
Craig Green 100%’
I've been riding a 650B Felt Breed for about a year (almost entirely off road) and I think the biggest thing I notice is how comfortable the ride is. 47mm tires makes it really plush yet still pretty fast.
Slick production...GCN nailed this. RUclips perfection
Thanks Michael, really appreciate the feedback.
I wish GMBN would be on this level, especially mentioned the range of subjects. I dont ride road bikes but I absolutely enjoy to watch this channel.
The most important factor of rolling resistance is how supple the tire is. This means how supple the material used is. Then comes tread an then width. A wider tire has less rolling resistance than a narrow one if everything else is the same. You also have to count in the vibration losses in the rider's body. A supple tire run at the right pressure is not only the most comfortable but also the fastest option.
The handling is besides geometry also a function of the inertia of the wheels. A 29er feels stable because of heavy rims and tires, which are also further away from the axle than with smaller wheels.
And a good bike constructer considers pneumatic trail and wheel flop when he decides about the lengths and angles. So if you switch between a narrow and a wider wheel with the same diameter it will still result in different geometries. But one can design a bike which feels like another bike with different wheels.
Bicycle Quarterly tested many tires with several methods and found out that up to 25 mm a wider version of the same tire is significantly faster on the smoothest surface. If you go beyond 25 mm you hit a plateau until at last 52 mm. Wider than 25 mm still makes sense for real world roads, off road use and tram tracks.
As mentioned a steel drum test doesn't measure the actual rolling resistance because there is no rider. The body of the rider absorbs the shocks of the surface and therefore reduces the speed. So a comfortable tire really is the fastest tire.
Do you really think that on the road, that a 45mm tyre is as fast as a 25mm tyre? I can understand it off the road on bumpier surface, but on the road? Well even if rolling resistance is similar, the 25mm tyre will be faster anyway because it's a lot lighter, wouldn't you think?
@@alantaylor6691 It's actually because of the wind that the 25mm will be faster. Aerodynamic is the key here if you are on the road (thus the reason why tt/triathlon is often a 23mm or a 25mm). However, Max Sievers is right for rolling resistance! You cannot simply look at one variable and base your choice on it. There's always going to be compromises.
Max Sievers )
3:05- “Lord Herefords Nob” “It’s gonna be quite long” “and hard as well” Nice One lads😂😂
They are indeed very naughty boys. Also "Go steady, it's quite hard" and "I think it's gonna be exciting.... and probably over far too quickly."
did they script this? or impromptu?
😂 "long and hard" that's what she said.
So would it be beneficial to have one of both?! For example say a 700c front wheel with a skinnier tyre to be more aero and a 650B back wheel with bigger tyre for more traction?! Or vice versa to have more grip on your front wheel?!?
Pegasus Very cheeky, they forgot fertile 😂
Props to GCN production team for this video. The overlayed graphics were spot on. Well done team. Those 650b wheels look sweet. I want a pair!!
I orderd the ZIPP 303s in 650b with the WTB Byway 47mm and my local bike shop put them on just today 1/25/18 - instagram.com/p/BeY0hCUlZB4/?taken-by=kinetic_cycles.
What I think, is that these Rondo bikes are HOT!
They mentioned cross country MTBs, and I thought the top tubes on their frames looked like old Hawk MTBs from the 90s.
I love how causally beautiful that background with the waterfall is.
I recently got a 2nd hand pair of 650b disc rims with 47mm tyres to swap onto my Felt road bike running 700c × 32 disc wheels. It was a mere plug n play....just bought a 2nd cassette which I fittes to the 650b's and flip in and out no probs. The 650b does spinup a little slower...though the cyntrifical action with the heavier tyre actually feels easier to pedal on road. I just completed a 170km trek around Lake Geneva on road no problems.
I love the feel to run offroad lower pressure...and the 650b feel great in winter and snow.
This video was great to explain what I have been trying to tell all my friends....Thank You GCN.
Bought a Rondo Ruut AL in October and I've run a 700c wheelset with 30mm road tyres and 43mm gravel tyres and the versatility is fantastic. I've recently purchased the 650b wheelset with 47mm tyres and I can't discern much difference between them and the 700c with the 43mm tyres! Love the Rondo bike though. Opens up (pardon the pun) alot of possibilities when riding.
daveybaa mmmh I was thinking about buying 650b but now I'm not sure anymore. How much smaller are the 650x47 wheels to the 700x42 in diamater? Or are they even smaller? Also that theres not the ability to run 35 and smaller tires on the 650b is to consider. Thanks
Alex Sch
I don't know much about tyres, but if you're looking for thinner than 35mm on 650 wheel, couldn't you go to 650A?
I've never wanted to go to the UK more than after watching, kudos from US
Thanks for this video. I just bought a Kona hybrid with 650x47 tyres and I have to say it’s the most fun I’ve had since the 8th grade. (Some time ago, now.) But a lot of the fun comes from bike geometry, as you so eloquently stated. Thnx again.
I've been riding a Cannondale Slate with 650B wheels w/tubeless tires. I find that I can push the bike to do things because of the bigger tire. When descending rough and gravel roads, I can open up more on just roll over rough chatter.
Have a Cannondale slate and absolutely love the versatility the wheel size brings. Rides are just more fun as now my regular loop involves road, trail and rail trail ( gravel path) and it is pretty awesome at everything. It is a new type of riding for me and super fun to do with friends as we all have our strengths and skill that let’s just say we have to work on. Still have yet to show up on a large group road ride but looking forward to it! Thanks for the great video.
Michael Mccaughey I turned mine into a bikepacking rig and it’s great
Got 650b on my cannondale slate, big fan. Take the bike basically anywhere and nice and fast on the road to get to the fun bits.
I swapped the 105 set for a sram rival 1x and the slicks for wtb resolute on my green 2016 slate. Its the most fun bike in my riding experience. Not to mention good looking with the lefty. It's super nice be able to ride through deep snow up hill on a road bike.
I am riding a CX bike with 700c rims and 40mm tires, total wheel diameter 27.75 (705mm) and loving it.
@Gcn you guys do these paid promotions so well. It's fair, balanced, and fun! Good work. If I start fresh with a new bike I would buy a versatile bike that can handle a broad range of tyres, and go disk. Those Zipp wheels look good in the sunshine in the opening shots. I liked Dan's smile at 10:25. So funny!
Greg Robson thanks Greg! Appreciate the feedback.
My new build is a Gary Fisher Mamba originally a entry level 29er Mountain bike - now a drop bar, carbon fork citybike. I'm running ThickSlicks at the moment and the bike FLYS!! More importantly, as you never know what you might spontaneously encounter on your commute to work; it is nice to know you can "roll over pretty much anything". Thankfully, no mud between me and the job, just good old American pavement, with the occasional run on concrete...poor me, bike lanes all the way. Love Austin TX!
No I haven’t ridden 650b wheels. The Idea is intriguing to those of us who would like to have one, do it all bike. We have several custom frame builders in the US, that build bikes that would accommodate 650b wheels with large tires. One of my favorites is a gravel bike from Sage titanium. You can put on a fast pair of race wheels for a fast club ride and then change to the 650b fat tire wheels for some adventure riding. Sounds like fun to me!
Yes that sounds perfect, keep the road wheels for the road-specific stuff, then throw in the 650s for the adventure rides! You can just throw either in at any time eh? Perhaps you could even put a 700c on the front and 650 on the back! Very doable!
Arahorn Better yet, make a rack to carry the spare wheels with you on the back of the bike, stop when changing terrain to switch wheels, and then eschew compromising. Or hire a manservant to follow on a motorcycle with the spares!
Just kidding- extra wheels are great to have at home for preparing for different rides.
Have you guys checked out Fairdale? They're road and gravel bikes designed by a former BMX rider, and they'e 650b swappable.
@@daverts just get yourself a BOB trailer
Superb video! I’m building a steel frame twin six rando bike with an American classic 650b wheelset with wtb byway tires. My goal is pretty much to have an extremely versatile bike that will be equally at home and fun on pavement as well as off pavement, and everywhere in between. Your video is making me think I’m on the right track.
The most fun I would have with a 650B bike would be trying to convince the spouse to let me get one.
that sound more like torture
This made me lose it. I just went through the trials with mine just to get a Trek Roscoe 8....... LMFAO
Why don't couples have one joint account and then 1 separate one for each to use at their own discretion? 🤔
antred11, you’ve never been married, right?
@@awesomexistence Correct. But why are you asking? Are you implying that ALL married couples pool their finances, and that therefore if I had ever been married I'd have known that?
I'm not even a roadie (I love cycling though) but I love watching your videos mainly for the beautiful landscapes and roads. In another life I would have moved to the UK before I grew uncutable roots here. I'm so jealous for your hills, rock walls and cozy country roads.
Trust me, its not all like that, the best bits are but its always wet so dont bother!
Yeah, wet roads suck. Maybe I'll just dream about moving to the south of France then.
Yup thats my dream as well. Moving to the Pyrenees or Italian Alps.
Much less maintenance you gotta deal with in those dryer climes I imagine, apart from dust.
Recently I changed my 23 wide tyres to 28 with lower pressure, both on 700C wheels. I love to ride gravel since then. Can’t image what 47 with smaller tyres feel like. 😯 nice video, thanks for all of your content!
I think this would be a good commuter bike. I have to deal with city streets, and gravel and mud foot paths. I used to use a mountain bike, but it was to slow, so I went to a road bike, but it takes too much of a beating, so I went to a cyclecross bike that works pretty well, and this might be even better. I'm not in the market for a new bike anytime soon, so I might never find out.
Any gravel bike would also do if you want to do commute with it.
I ride a cannondale slate to commute on and I love it. It holds speed well and I can hop curbs easily whenever traffic gets too heavy
My biggest concern is the lack of tires available for skinnier 650b rims. As a commuter, I prize super puncture resistant, slick tires. I'm not sure that these are yet available for 650b wheels.
whenhen
Look for Schwalbe Marathon 27.5 Remember that 650b is the same as 27.5", look for both classifications.
You got it perfectly right! If you can try someone elses wheels in your cx bike with those WTB 47s. They are supposed to fit, since that is the actual idea of "road plus".
I'm spending the dark, icy winter months here in Sweden by upgrading my famously low-cost, high-value Decathlon RC120 road bike to be well suited for both my twice weekly 50km commute to work along paved bike lanes (700C wheels and 25mm road tires), and also evening & weekend gravel riding out here in the countryside. (650b + 40mm gravel tires). There's even enough tire clearance left to squeeze in proper mudguards!
I've switched out the stock 50x34 chainring to 48x32 with 165mm cranks, a well as the cassette (x2, since I'll be alternating wheel sets) from an 11x34 to 11x38. Going to swap out the rear mech as well, to a Microshift RD with longer cage. It'll be stretching the gear capacity by 2 teeth and I might need to try a Wolftooth extender on the rear hanger, but hey, maybe that might lessen the risk of the RC120's one drawback, a solid derailleur hanger on its aluminium frame.
If it all works, I'll have dropped the granny gear from 27 gear inches to 24. If not, then it's back to an 11x36 cassette that Microshift assures me will work without changing shifters.
Previously I've toured abroad on a FULLY loaded straight-bar hybrid and used my hardtail MTB (both Marins) for local trails and dirt roads, but now I'm looking forward to scaling down the load for bikepacking on both multiday and multiweek trips, while still having a faster roadbike for the minimum road training necessary to keep this 62 year old ready for the summer months abroad. I'll have 2 bikes for the low price of one + extra wheels, about 750 GBP. Who says bikes are too expensive these days?
This video reminds me of when I used to take my road bike to see just how much off road beating it can take. I took it through wet clay farm roads, gravel footpaths and even some singletrack with sand and loose rock. All on 25c tires to boot! Now I have a cross bike and have thought about putting 650b wheels on it but I think my cantis prevent that.
I have a Mason Bokeh, with 650b wheels and love it.
It gives a sense of freedom I don't get from my other bikes. I'm able to explore tracks and trails which I wouldn't want to ride on the road to get to on my mtb, and I certainly wouldn't want to bother with loading the mtb into the car to get to them either.
It has enabled me to create new loops and rides, often avoiding that bit of main road I've had to endure to get to the next lane, and really refresh my riding, and helped me get to know my area better.
I converted a 1985 Specialized Sequoia to 650b and it is absolutely delightful to ride. I mounted 38mm Compass brand tires and the ride finally reminds me of former days riding sew ups. Incredibly smooth, fast rolling. Now I want to 650b on my auto, and my shoes. Great to see GCN open to innovations that seem counterintuitive.
I just recently pre ordered a Mason Bokeh with Hunt 650b wheels for this exact purpose! cant wait to try it out :)
when I first looked at the Rondo bikes, I thought they were Mason! Lovely design the bikes from Mason. These Rondo ones look amazing as well.
Mason Bokeh withe 650B is awesome great choice.
Thomas Linddal and? How is the bike?
My mate bought one. Very jealous! Might get one later in the year when my numbers come up...
I got into 650b last year with the purchase of some Reynolds 650b XC carbon wheels and loved them right away. I have since found the perfect tire to pair in the 650b x 43 Rock 'n Road tires especially made for Bruce Gordon Cycles by Panaracer. The wheels and tires are tubeless ready and are fantastic both on and off road. I run them about 30psi for agressive gravel riding and love them on my Cannondale CaadX disk bike that I have swapped to 1x with a 40t front and 11x38 on the back. Thanks for this episode!
Love that you boys are getting off road and playing in the woods on those sweat bikes! Well done! Please keep content like this coming to us!
Have the Cannondale Slate with the 650B tires. Lots of fun, particularly on the gravel. My view is that is you are going to be 60% gravel, go with the 650’s. If you are 60% road, the 700’s. The 650’s feel much more ready for the gravel part of the gravel ride. Loads of fun regardless.
I love the way a cross bike with fat 650b wheels/tires looks. So sharp! Great film gents!
I had a bespoke Ti frame gravel grinder built for me by Kent Eriksen Bikes two years ago. It was designed to run three setups....roadie, cyclocross and gravel with clearance for up to a 38mm tire on 700c wheels. I'm 6'4", 250lbs and put out peak wattage close to 1500. The bike is bulletproof, with Ultegra Di2 all around. In addition, I can run substantial cassette variances without chain alteration. It works flawlessly.
There wasn't much to separate the feel of the bike between a CX and gravel grinder, until I rebuilt one wheelset with MTB's Ci2 27.5" carbon wheels and added MTB's Byway tire, as seen in this video. This is a true do it all setup. You can ride anything anywhere. I literally hardly use the CX wheelset any longer and only use the roadie set for long highway rides. You can dramatically vary the pressure on the Byway tire (I run tubeless) and do everything, just smoother. I LOVE this bike and the "one frame does it all" system is absolutely the way to go. I can run studded tires for Canadian winter riding too.
I've done something similar with my Pivot Switchblade XTR, having both 29" and 27+ wheel sets at my disposal. I have two frames and 5 or 6 different bikes, due to different wheel size and tire combinations. Awesome.
Could have done with one of these on the weekend. I took my cyclocross bike for a fire road - road - FoD blue mountain bike trail ride and had a great time. Slightly more volume in the tyres and decent brakes would have been even better!
I am in the process of converting my 27 plus mountain bike into a gravel bike. I am grateful for this detailed explanation of tire and rim comparison.
Watching this video made my day 58% more fun than it was before watching.
I run 650B road wheels with 23mm tyres on a Litespeed Saber and they are mad fun on the road and super light on aero wheels ! I can only imagine how much fun they would be with a super large off road tyre on them . Pity I don’t have the clearance.
I recently completed a drop bar conversion of an old low end 26" mountain bike I bought from sports authority; it is nothing fancy really (the bartape is worth more than the frame), but it sure is a blast. After spending 4 years on a roadie, its kind of magical to go for a fast spin and eat some dirt in the same ride; like the damned thing eats pot-holes for breakfast, smooth 35 mph descents for lunch, can climb a cobbled 15% grade for a snack, and rail-road ballast for dinner. At the moment, I'm using 2 inch wide Bontranger slicks, which work surprisingly pretty well both on and (assuming its dry) off road. At 45 psi front and 55 rear, the tires don't even slow me down, and while I might not win any pure road races, I can easily keep up with all the other dads during the group ride. If anything, its the limitations of the heavy crap frame, old beat up tourney drive-train, and cantilever breaks which keep this bike from greatness. I'm thinking of replacing the worn out parts but looking at the (both new and used) parts and materials required to do the upgrade, I might as well but a new bike. I'm rambling here, but needless to say, I believe the hype. The Claris Salsa Journeyman in red-orange is calling out to me...
No I don.'t but I believe in bigger tieres more comfy. this was very informative thanks.pat from Belgium 🚲
Patrick Hance Exactly my point.
then use 29" like in mountain bike
640b for gravel bikes makes sense. My 700c gravel bike takes up to 45mm tires. But even changing from 28mm to 35mm "surprised" me in the higher stand-over top tube height. 40+mm tires would have been "challenging" at the first traffic light. 650b for fatter tires makes sense!
It seems odd that they didn't talk about TT or BB height in the video, but they were focused on handling and I guess those things go without saying.
Thank you for figuring it out. A road bike can do amazing things in an off-road setting, but I have gotten into trouble with the tires. This seems to be the answer.
Norco’s Search XR comes with 650b rims, and having demoed one on road to fireroad to snowy footpath to a green singletrack and back again in one ride, I can honestly say it was fun.
I think if your ride starts with a bit of road, maybe up the hill, and then over fireroad and down some less rooty singletrack more rubber on the rim definitely helps. With a more rooty ride and just fireroad, and some blue trails, I’d probably opt for a 29er XC hardtail, after that you’re into proper mtb territory, either a hardtail (like a Kona Honzo, or Chromag [single speed even]) or AM/enduro full suspension bike.
"A rooty ride" lol.
What do you think is a good tyre thickness for both on and off-road bikepacking? Maybe have to up it a bit for the bikepacking load eh? We're not talking heavy touring load, we're just talking lightweight touring, on-off-road bikepacking. I'd like it to be rootworthy as much as possible, while still being road worthy. I suppose the number would be somewhere between 30 and 40? (tyre thickness)
The location looked amazing
You know what they say, Wales Never Fails...
I got myself some 650B wheels last year for my Genesis Croix de Fer and I rode London Edinburgh London on them with 42mm tyres (couldn't fit mudguards with bigger). The comfort was brilliant and for the distance the loss of any speed was not really noticeable. I have also fitted them with the WTB 47mm Horizons and ridden plenty of mixed terrain which has also been a joy.
Also, when people talk about it being a new phenomenon, as you mention in the video the French have been riding Randonee's on 650b wheels and fat tyres for a lot longer than they have been about in the MTB world.
For long distance and mixed terrain riding if you have the clearance I thing it's really the best way to go.
Rondo great bikes from Poland.
Słusznie prawisz ;)
Przepięknie wyglądają te rowery. Ciekawi mnie czy ten obracany widelec sprawdza się.
Just ordered one XD
Gents, first of all let me say you guys have done a great job w/ these videos that are fun and educational. Massive kudos. I have been a fan.
That being said, on this episode, I am still not convinced that the new "gravel" category is a meaningful one. I think a most important element overlooked is the fact that wider MTB bars give you much more control over rough and technical terrain. Granted people can get accustomed as many elite CX riders are able to do, but they are still no match for a proper mountain bike (for simplicity and cost comparison let's talk about hardtails w/ rigid forks for now). In other words, why go for 1.9" semi-knobbies when you are stuck w/ drop bars that are, what, 400mm in width?
Truth is, a proper XC machine even w/ rigid forks (such as the Orbea Alma rigid) is probably 30%-40% more at home and capable on a rough mountain road than these "gravel" bikes, but on a paved road, w/ similar tires/tread patterns, the hardtail is maybe 10% less effective than the gravel bike. Of course these numbers are inherently arbitrary but you see what I mean. Of course people need to sell more bikes and they fund these videos so it's a tough one.
BTW, what's up w/ the hunched top tubes? Other than looking weird and reducing standover clearance and adding weight, what purpose do they really serve any way?
Other than that, awesome video and keep up the good work as always.
Haven’t ridden 650B wheels but I definitely think my next bike will be a gravel bike with those wheels after watching the tech video and seeing them in action on this video big thumbs up from me cheers guys.
I would love to see the out takes of this ep. Lord herefords Knob is quite a mouthful
Those are the kind of tyres that the people who work on a bicycle in my country use. Glad that you guys are finally caching up.
Yes- I have both 650b and 700c wheelsets for my OPEN bike. Love the 650b as I can bomb through sand (living in the desert there is a lot of sand). For racing, I use the 700c wheelset. 650b do feel different around corners and do have more resistance and you can feel the drag if you are doing any sort of long distance gravel race. Tires make a huge difference too - knobby for wet conditions, slicks for dry, sandy conditions. I mountain bike too and a gravel bike with 650b is a different kind of fun and well worth a try.
I've been considering a 650b for the last few years as my current bike starts to feel its age. Richard Hallet of Hallet Cycles and technical expert at CTC has been singing the 650b wheel size's praises for quite some time. I've been considering a Cotic Escapade but now as Pinnacle has brought a 650b road bike decisions have become a bit more difficult.
I use a touring bike in winter. The biggest tyres I can fit are Schwalbe Marathon 700 x 35C. They're good on gravel -- but I couldn't do a cyclocross event.
In the early 90s we had triathlon bikes 26 or 650 , they used to say its faster in cornering around cones on closed roads. But we needed biker chain rings. It died a death. Great for shorter riders but that’s it. This was a fun video, keep it up lads.
next improvements to make road bikes more fun...: suspension, flat bar, dropper post, slacker head angle, baggy clothing, hairy legs, avoid riding on roads
+Jussi Hirvonen we see where that could end up
was thinkin the same thing. something something moots softail with a rockshox RS-1 fork?
I agree, but my road bike still gets me to work or the pub faster. And I miss the lycra catsuit. :)
Thank you for that great video. I recently built a gravelbike from a 90s MTB steelframe. I use 26" wheel and Maxxis dth tyres 2.15" (55 mm) wide. With the drop bar it is a great gravel- and travelbike. The outer wheel diameter ist nearly the same as 28" with 23 mm tyres. I like superfast racebikes but for a gravelbike wide tyres make more sense!
I recently had a new Trek 520 Disc frame given to me as a warranty replacement for my more than 30 year old Trek road bike (which did not have disc brakes).
I see that the new Trek "Touring" frame is designed to have clearance for much wider tires! This is exciting for the potential I see after having watched a variety of recent videos like this one, and, videos explaining how wider tires actually have *lower* rolling resistance (we all had assumed the opposite, for so many years!).
Now I realize, I could actually put wide enough tires to do some trail riding, not just "gravel".
When I got the frame I picked up some 28mm tires - at the time, I thought they were rather wide. Now, just a couple weeks later, I find myself thinking: gee, they're actually kind of narrow and maybe 35mm would have been even better!
GCN's production quality has now gotten out of the RUclips league. Like at 10:52, smooth focus transition, camera angle, and Dan's acting... It's like watching a proper TV show.
700C, 650B, 26", 28"...
Why not use ERTRO-sizes?
Exactly way more descriptive. Just a rim diameter all you need
@Fellow accelerationist And that's possible only if you use the idiotic inch measures or the equally moronic French measures in stead of the actually useful ERTRO measures for describing the exactly same tires?
@Fellow accelerationist What empire :D
@Fellow accelerationist Same - got 47-622s on my Dr Dew. Had to take a file to the bottom of the fork crown tho :D
metrics is the only way to go
I'm 6'1" (184 cm) and am getting ready to buy my first gravel bike. Being taller, I have leaned towards 700c wheels, and have been intending to ride 40 mm tires, but because most manufacturers use a 70 mm bottom bracket drop, the result is a higher bottom-bracket height than the 270 mm bottom bracket height I want. The alternative seems to be the fatter 650B with 47mm tires...but I've worried that the fatter tires would be significantly slower. It is good to hear that you didn't feel too much slower on them! Keep up the great videos, by the way!
Got new gravel bike with 650B tires and I totally love it!
Guys, you are awesome! Hope to be able to do a ride with you someday! I'm a 64 years old Italian grandpa living in Western NY and tempus fugit and I don't seem to be able to catch up...
But never say never. Thanks for all the great info and entertainment. Ciao a tutti.
Got a Cannondale CaadX 105 SE (48/32 rings) and use it with 28/32mm 700C tires. It lets me hang with an intermediate group ride easily (16mph group). I'm looking for 650b for gravel, will run them with 47mm or 42mm tires. Only thing is that they need to be QR, so looking at Fulcrum 700 db racing (650b) plus QR adapters.
I also have a Cervelo S2 and a P2 (rim brake with 23mm 700c tires), but find myself riding the CaadX a lot since its so sturdy and I don't have to worry much about road conditions like loose gravel or potholes. Plus with the current setup I can ride easily over grass as well. I only wish it had a dropper seat post for doing bunny hops !
In about a week I'll be buying a 2000 Trek Hilo triathlon/time trial road bike with a 56 cm seamless double butted super light aluminum frame. It is 650b rsther than 700c. I'll be using one racing wheelset that is Spinergy Rev-X rims with Vittoria Juniors Competition 3D compound kevlar tubulars. The training wheelset is Shimano 105 hubs, Mavix CXP21 clincher rims and Continental Grand Prix 3000 tires. I'll use those tires as much as I can until they need to be replaced and then I'll get Continental Grand Prix 4000 S II tires like I have on my Lemond Buenos Aires road bike and really love.
This is great, but one thing you are missing is the difference in bike geometry. A 35/ 700c tire is taller than a 47mm/ 650b tire. A 35mm/700c tires is the equivalent of a 54mm/650 b tire. By having a smaller diameter tire you decrease trail and thus should have more "nimble' steering handling. It would be interesting to see how that compensates for the heavier tire (when it comes to steering and handling). Pro tip - just like touring bikes have longer rake forks (to make them handle faster to compensate the luggage weight), a 650b set up that has an effective smaller tire diameter might help compensate when bikepacking with heavy gear on the bars. Just a thought. Great video! Always a huge fan of what you all do! Keep it up! Happy 2019!
I'm sold -- but this due to experience, for the most part. Toyed around with some wheels and tires on my old hybrid a couple of years ago.
Excellent job with this, lads.
I put 650b wheels on a short-wheelbase racing bike. I love it. I roll over bumps and then ask if I really rolled over them, because I barely feel them. And the bike doesn't feel a bit slower. Did you know that, all things being equal, wider tires roll faster than narrow, not slower? Science!
Just got a cannondale slate with 650b wheels and love the feel of the wheels off road with 40 psi in them. For the road i build up a pair of 700c wheel just for the road ,and they are just as fast as my old road bike.
GT was doing this back in 1990-92 with the Tachyon cross bike. Had a weird 700d wheel size that never caught on. You can fit a 650b tire on them now. Been looking for a 22" frame size for a while now.
I put 32mm tires on my old bike and use it as a gravel-ish bike now... still a 700c x 32mm but i do love the way a road bike feels off road compared to a 29er
I just want to thank you for adding in SUBTITLES in your videos! I couldn't make out who provided your bikes ("our mates over at Zipp") (0:16) and replayed it 3 times before turning on the "CC" thinking the bikes can't be Zipp since Zipp are a wheel-manufacturer. Also indispensable for those who did not grow up with English.
I like how you guys basically proposed inventing the Salsa Cycles 'Fargo' at the end of this video. A drop bar 29er mtb.
I have some experience building monstercross bikes and have to say, that the most FUN I have on an old style geometry full susp 26'er with tuned suspension and drop bar. Geometry wise pre-2010 XC bikes (kind of) feels like agressive CX machines.
My randonneuring bike has 650B tires, smooth tread, 38 mm wide. They are really comfortable to ride long distance. I used to ride a road bike with 700C-25mm tires on Brevets, but I much rather ride the 650B-38mm. Wider would be even better, but 38mm is the widest I can go with my fenders. (Without fenders I could go 42mm). Also good to note, I'm 5'8" tall - with long arms and a short torso, so the 650B makes the bike geometry a little easier to work out.
Hi guys - ace video as always - personally I think the idea of a 650b wheel is excellent - that may be just because I grew up using older mountain bikes, but hey still great!
Also, I just want to say a massive thank you to you guys! I work for deliveroo in Exeter, and when I started in was using a 2007 stumpjumper - which you may be able to imagine was quite frustrating at times - so I watched all of your videos (well done for the Deliveroo video by the way!), and based on all the info I got from you guys I got a cyclocross bike - I went for the cheaper end of the spectrum and got a voodoo limba from halfords - but omg it's a nice bike to ride! It makes my job so much easier and quicker - so again - thank you so much guys! Your videos are awesome! Keep up the good work!
Refreshing review chaps...well done! Myself, I ahve been trying to get the one do-it-all bicycle, and I am planning a drop bar mtbike, carbon hardtail. However, I currently ride a SomaDouble Cross, steel/carbon fork. 700c. It's a real hoot. Not great a uber gnarly off-road, but tetching single track and forest riding, I simply love it. And like you chaps say, my gravel beast is not too slow on road. So yes, I have two bikes into one versatile machine...which I love to bits. And let's be honest, most everyday guys, can't be arsed with 2-3-4 bikes. One bike...that does it all. I am happy the day has arrived. It means I dont have to watch any more velo marketing or go window shopping for bikes....until the next bike comes along that is :) By the way, I was riding in Norway recently and i got to sample these Rondo beasts...simply beaitiful innovation, they are not cheap, but the Alu. a version was equally a star, and a good price. Super Rondo Polish innovation... try one out :)
This was a great video! Thank you guys! I enjoyed the honesty and the philosophy. I am so happy to see drop bars make it fully back into the world of off road! The most versatile bicycle yet!!!
I have a cannondale slate with custom DT Swiss 650b wheels and a Evo with the Cannondale branded carbon wheels running 25 mm tires. Currently the 650b wheels have the Schwalbe one tires tubeless. So.... the 650b can comfortably do fire roads and light single track. On the road they can be tweaked by adjusting the tire pressure to be in the general area of the road wheels but are slower by 1 to 1.5 mph. allowing that the slate is longer slightly more upright and about 1.5 kg heavier. The slate is more comfortable on chip seal roads and on sharp descents feels more like a motorcycle than a bike...but descent times are very close to the road bike. The road tires are more nimble and roll up to speed faster, and hold speed easier, and are just faster
I think I stick to my 700c/40mm Schwalbe g-one allrounds. Great fun and absolutely go anywhere.
Thanks for this, Dan and Si, and being able to swap wheels of different sizes and tires of different sizes makes a great case for discs.
Robb Chastain just what I was thinking, shame they didn't point out the fact this is only possible because of discs really but can't have everything.
I still ride a 26" wheel rockhopper with aluminium rigid fork and 1.75" width semi slick tyres for short distance commuting. I switched to using a single speed bike with 700c 25mm tyres for a while but found it less comfortable and less practical. The 26" tyres are easier to inflate, puncture less and at very slow speeds the rockhopper handles better with no toe/front tyre interference. It's not 'aero' but I can ride it reasonably fast and I actually prefer the more upright riding position for my awareness and being visible to other road users. For the mix of tight turns, poor surfaces and obstacles on my route I prefer the agility of the smaller wheeled bike.
I have a Giant Toughroad (drop bars) and it can run 29er tires. Super fast, super fun.
going to try and fit some 32mm gravel tires on my 1986 trek road bike- originally was speced with 23mm tires.
Two considerations: First, being able to switch to 650b on a road bike requires disc brakes. Obviously, a road bike with rim brakes for 700c wheels won't work with 650b since the brake pads would touch the tires, rather than the rims. So, the 650b road option is only for newer road frames with disc brakes. Second, Zipp wheels are fairly expensive. So the 700c/650b option, as presented in this video, probably won't be affordable for most viewers.
If someone made calipers with long enough mounting slots in the arms for the necessary difference in pad height, you could use wingnuts to secure the pads and thus be able to hot swap 650bs onto an older rim brake 700c bike... provided you had the chainstay clearance, of course. Right now I have an old steel MTB with newer CX cantis on it, and they have enough adjustment to allow for 650b wheels, so maybe starting with an MTB frame is a possibility.
cutting egde or old bloke? been runnning 700c's on my mtb hardtail, with 26' when offroad for over a decade. wait long enuff and the world will come round to your thinking...my old bike does it all, maybe not as fast as an aero bike, but still fun. cheers guys good video breakdown
A slightly more burly option is to put drop flared bars on a 29er hardtail, My Surly Karate Monkey can fit 27.5 Plus tire which gives it a Monster truck vibe. Not a very nimble road bike but a solid tourer with narrower 700c wheels mounted.
Some of us cyclists have been doing something like this for years. Except, obviously, with 700c wheels - i.e. "monster-cross" bikes. Admittedly, we weren't doing the whole small wheel/fatter tire vs large wheel/narrower tire comparison, but using 1 bike - in our case a CX bike - with a fatter tire (>38mm) vs narrower tire (
Call me a luddite but I'll just keep on riding my 26' MTB off-road...
Same...
Isn’t it weird how they go every step of the way to get a mountain bike except simply just getting a mountainbike?
I bought a 27.5 fantom in place of my previous 26” ...and I loose all the fun
I rode it last week- lord Herefords knob really is very long and hard.
It was amazing
I've just repaired a 1995 Claud Butler and I had to remove the old tyres. It is incredible that a rigid mountain bike from that period has the same tyre width as a 650b give or take.
I would find it interesting if there was Modern gravel bike vs retro rigid mountain bike.
You should have brought Mat along on a normal road bike to get a true comparison and for the added crashes
I have a Trek Hilo time trial/triathlon bike with 650c wheels. I have a set of clincher training wheels that are Shimano SG hubs and Mavic CXP rims. I also have a set of tubular racing wheels that are Spinergy Rev X carbon fiber four spoke bladed.
I'm putting CST Czar tires on the clincher wheels and Vittoria Juniores tires on the tubular wheels.
I've had my Trek Hilo up to 33.30 mph and generated 230 watts over a short local Strava segment.
I bought this bike for $100 from a friend who owns his own bike shop where I live.
My main road bike is a Lemond Buenos Aires that's about fifteen to twenty years old and I've ridden thousands of miles on it since I bought her new in Colorado.
I have a Gary Fisher Mamba mountain bike that I got for $60 and have to restore to riding condition.
“The overall diameter stays the same” and yet! The bottom bracket drops. (eg 7mm on the Specialized Diverge carbon).
How come?
I Ride a Kinesis Atr v2 which takes both sizes of wheel, the 650b is especially great in the winter months and not bad for training, when you swap back to the 700c it does feel faster.
Dan's smile - you can't unsee it.
i am running 650b wheels and tires on my bike, although they are 2.6 inch wide and are suspended on some really nice shocks, 160mm front and 150mm rear.
Glowing review for the "fun" of larger tires on 650b! I like the wider tire b/c it allows me to stay away from cars and paved roads. I like the trend if it exposes more off-road gravel routes.
I recently got a Carrera Axle as a backup bike with 650B wheels and I can honestly say that the bike is a lot of fun compared to my main commuter bike which has 700C.