Theologians in Conversation: Celtic Christianity: Myth and Reality
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- Опубликовано: 23 апр 2012
- Alan Ford and Thomas O'Loughlin, both professors in Nottingham, discuss the current interest in 'Celtic Christianity' and how what is imagined as the form of Christianity in the British Isles in some far-distant past may tell us more about today's desires that about the early middle ages
![CENTRAL CEE - GEN Z LUV [VERTICAL VIDEO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VIbidJm9q34/mqdefault.jpg)
I also see that when men were connected to the natural world, there was room for God. But as man continues to build a world of his own design, there is less room for God and more room for evil.
One of the reasons why Abraham got called out by God from the Metropolis Ur.
Well said.
Every time I encounter someone rediscovering Celtic Christianity I see a great resemblance to Eastern Orthodox Christianity
For the first time in 1000 years there is an Orthodox Christian Monastery on Mull close to Iona. Fr. Serafim is the Abbot. Orthodox Christians reverence Celtic Saints and see in them the shared spiritually and affinity with nature.
The points, Bonnie, is that these first Celts *were* Orthodox Christian.
The Orthodox Church has nothing to do with Celtic Christianity, its commonly assumed that The Insular form of christianity was in any way different than that of Western Christendom ..but you have to remember at that time there were many regional forms of liturgical differences.. Celtic Christianity is just a regional form of the greater western christian culture at the time..
@@xskramx8078 at that time all christianity was orthodox
@@xskramx8078 Apart from the fact there is a livng Celtic Orthodox Church
He completely avoids the Celtic conception of the “Adam Cara,” or “Soul Friend,” who served as the first confessors. Likewise, he ignores the Synod of Widby which pitted the Celtic Christians against the Roman Christians for the heart of North Umbria. This trial laid out many of the different practices of the Celtic Church, such as the Celtic method of tonsured for monks and their unique method of divining the date of Easter in contrast to the Roman method.
He also ignored the fact that the Irish Church was separate from Rome, never paid tithes to the bishop of Rome, and Adrian's right to claim it as a papal fief has been disputed ever since. The argument for Irish Anglicanism during the Reformation was that the Irish Church was simply being restored to the position that prevailed prior to 1169, which is why the Church of Ireland still maintains succession from St. Patrick.
In other words, to deny Celtic Christianity ipso facto denies the legitimacy of the Church of Ireland.
That's how I used to hope Christianity was, would be, could be. Many years ago.
Very interesting to hear Tom's descriptions and observations.
The idea of reinventing a history for the kind of Christianity we could be at home in at first struck me as artificial and unnecessary.
I'm now listening to Tom for the second time, and will keep coming back until I understand.
Wonderful, clear and downright beautiful! He describes a spirituality I long for! What a blessed articulate thinker. Bless him. He is leading me forward and I will gladly follow. Thank you Saints and Angels for leading me here...home. Amen. Amen. Amen.
Saints and Angels?
@@undignified2843 One question what s the name of the music that plays at the beginning
I am coming to this conversation seven years after. In any case, I was surprised that these professors discuss Celtic Christianity as a fantasy that has been dreamt up to elude a "sin-soaked," hierarchy-intensive Christianity. The good hard evidence that might have explicated this is never adduced in this "conference." (I do not pretend to speak for those who *have* sprinkled pixie dust on related topics, but for a scholarly view that is supported by archeological, documentary, and genetic evidences.) In brief, the Gaels are said to have come out of Scythia, were evangelized by St. Andrew in the region of the Black Sea, were evangelized outside of Rome (called Galatians) by St. Paul, and then, no doubt, many others as they migrated into Western Ireland. That is, the earliest of these Irish and Scottish Christians were not Romanized but were Orthodox (as all Christians were Orthodox until the 16c. except from those associated with the Patriarchate of Rome. That is, the doctrine of Original Sin would have been unknown to the Celts (invented by Augustine of Hippo in the 5th c.), and a world structured as dioceses would also have been foreign. Celtic Christianity was structured around monasteries, which indeed were life-giving nuclei to cells of Christians faithful. It was a more benign world from what we can tell from the monastic rule fragments left behind. We need not oppose pixie dust to "hard reality" but might instead compare one historical tradition (Orthodoxy) to another (Roman).
Wow your history is completely wrong, There was no Celtic invasion of Ireland "We are to believe it was more of a cultural invasion of the continental Hallstatt Culture"..In fact the Irish aren't even celts, the modern Irish are descended from the beaker people.. The neolithic population of Ireland "the megalithic monument builders and builders of the passage tombs" were entirely wiped out by the beaker people by about 2500 bc~ www.mythicalireland.com/MI/blog/ancient-sites/the-beaker-people-and-their-replacement-of-neolithic-dna-is-this-remembered-in-irish-myth/ ~here you go..
And Christianity arrived in in pagan Ireland in about 400 ad, through Roman Britain..The Term Celtic Church would be inappropriate to describe the Celtic speaking peoples since this would imply a notion of unity, or a self-identifying entity that didn't exist. Celtic speaking areas were part of Latin speaking areas as a whole wherein a significant degree of liturgical and structural variation existed, along with a collective veneration of the Bishop of Rome that was no less intense in Britain and Ireland.
Eastern Spiritually would actually be alien to the Celtic Christians , who's spiritual origins can be defined as a mix of their pagan past and the influence of Greater Western Christendom
I would love to see the proof of your claims though.. but sorry friend Western Christendom was in-fact a product of Catholicism with through its attachment to the Western Roman Empire Spread throughout the Western World from England to Sweden from Italy to Germany ..theres a tendency of orthodox christians to claim anything pre schism as "orthodox" but Latin Christendom began to form as a unique entity with the diocletian split of the east and west roman empire..therefore those influenced by the West became Catholic, and those influenced by the East became Orthodox..that why the Terms Western and Eastern wold Exist you know that right ..
@@xskramx8078 How does the Beaker replacement equate to there being no Celtic invasion of Ireland? Celtic (as in a language family) seems to have emerged in Ireland thousands of years AFTER the Beaker replacement. I think you are confusing "Celtic" with the Neolithic culture that preceded the Beaker people.
@@xskramx8078 lmao you can prove the Celtic migration by DNA. it's been proven.
Read the declaration of Arbroath.
@@xskramx8078 pre schism Celtic Christianity was orthodox theology wise all of western Christianity was orthodox the “catholic” Theology was invented by Saint Agustine of Hippo who’s theology was heavily Influenced by Gnostic theology and slowly over time was spread through out and adopted by the western church by the year 700 all of Western Europe had adopted Agustines heretical theology that was what caused the church to split
@@xskramx8078 Celtic studies has several different views, and relying on it for a view of the Celts is akin to relying on odd dice to get you an even number. Atlantic theory of the Origins of Celts was in vogue until the 90s. Roman Christianity was not in a strong place in the fourth and fifth centuries to dictate to anyone about the Christian message. Pope was weak, and the Catholic Church was embryonic. Its heart was in North Africa, not Italy. And even there schism was rife, and Saint Agustine's theology eventually triumphed throughout the Roman provinces. But the Irish Church was never Roman, in my belief, and was historically, if not scripturally, a Church that looked to the desert, not Rome, for guidance.
They title this Theologians in Conversation and give you the impression that there will be more than one speaking and then only feature one who is making generalizations and assumptions across the board support only by his personal opinion and the way he describes what 'faith in Christianity' is, it does not seem to me that he has a personal relationship with Christ at all.
Yes. Probably most Theologens today don't have a personal relationship with God through his son Jesus and don't know the creator. Their lectures are not satisfactorily.
Theologians really have a personal relationship with Christ. Their job is to know 'objectively' about all the religions in the world and be able to discuss them 'rationally' - sadly, nothing to do with faith itself.
There's absolutely no need to 'have a relationship with Christ' to be a theologian. There are Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist Theologians etc. There is no need for faith in theology, it can be there in any form or not there at all
I'm afraid that Thomas has missed out the beginnings of Christianity which was first established in Britain in the first century.
When Augustine rocked up in Britain 597AD, he discovered a far superiorly organised and sophisticated christian church than his own.
But instead of embracing the church he chose to basically ignore it and destroy all the scriptures and library's including our biggest library in Bangor-on -Dee.
There was 60 universities in Britain then and he got rid of them.
The Roman church has agreed in the past that Christianity was first established in Britain.
This is extremely interesting, do you have any sources I could look up to learn more?
Eye-opening thank you
So we’ll analyzed! Thank you!
Ninth century is late for Celtic church, did Northumbria have its fingers in Iona at that point?
This was interesting.
2:30 - 3:42 is so true. Especially 3:20 onwards
Maybe if the Catholic Church had moved more toward St. Francis of Assis' nature revering philosophy much of the damage done in the industrial revolution may have been avoided as an antithesis to us and our planet's wellbeing. All the wisdom of the Gaelic nature worshiping pagan folk was largely preserved and sacred places and landscapes were maintained. Christianity meant that one could aspire to be learned rather than being a shaman or wizard and that peacefulness in times of rule by war mongers and pepetual horrific battles, didn't always represent weakness and often quite the reverse. I should imagine that was a huge change in thinking and one that was welcomed by mothers of bright and gifted children that they could fulfill their potential and attain a longer, less brutal life with a higher standard of living albeit purposefully frugal in terms of monasticism. It's hard for us to imagine a world where there were no cities and the only formal learning institutions and places of sanctuary, with all manner of husbandry and agri-horticulture, were the monestries with monks involved with all families and helping the community.
That first guy is brilliant
He nails it. Celtic spirituality lay in the blend of Marian devotion, pilgrimage, and hagiography. Misty landscapes with mysterious shawled figures don't come into it.
Marian devotion is idolatry
Mary and not Jesus?
Wll-balanced, and a very CAREFUL analysis of s=a sensitive topic. I'm nkt sure I entirely AGREE with the analysis, but it it is well-presented, and worthy of thought, and that should be 'enough' for the casual, yet thoughtful person..
Obedience is the key.
Not all would go to Heaven, but the obedient. Because it is written in , , ,
Matt 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Celtic Christianity 🕊️💚🕊️
History is always written by the winners. When two cultures clash, the loser is obliterated, and the winner writes the history books-books which glorify their own cause and disparage the conquered foe. As Napoleon once said, 'What is history, but a fable agreed upon?
Dan Brown, The Da Vinci Code (Robert Langdon, #2)
The Bible withstood that dogmatic statement, God's history can't be rewritten by anybody.
My God, this is a stunningly brilliant video! I am aware that those in Northumbria pushing "Celtic" Christianity some years ago had no interest in the reality of what it really was. It was a naive rebranding doomed to failure. Andy Phillips> Turbulent Priest.
Church hermits were popular and hermitages
I am a direct descendent of Hugh de Cadella (Kaledouer) the name switched from Cadella,Calder,Cawdor,Caudill, to texas today to Cordell. My mother Jackie Sue Cordell is my mother we are direct descendent of Benjamin Caudill
Cool story
reality, i know because i practice it! it is personal to me and i seek never to convert anyone to what i believe but it is there it has always been there and has ran alongside mainstream christianity from the very beginning and will never end!
They were Going Through the RIGHT ! Decoding of things !
These Languages were probably the ones that could Reach Better understanding of the WHole Truth.
They kind of would be considered as the people of the Ark.
If you truly wanted to know the truth of the whole Grail > well there it is > But it is not used ... > what kind of truth is that ?
That's maybe the Key of how all the languages Should or COuld be COnnected Originally So that we can All Say and Speak the Same Language went it comes to God.
God the Father and God the Mother.
--------------------------------------------------------
Bible says we all have "Our Father" who is our God. (Matt 6:9). We are his children (2 Cor 6:18).
Now, can the children be born by the Father alone?
No. There has to be a mother as well. Yes, we DO have a God the Mother too. The Bible confirms it in :-
Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
Here above means "Heaven."
Jerusalem ???
How can she be our Mother and God?
Let's find out thru the Bible.
Rev 19:7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
Here Lamb is Jesus (Jn 1:29). Since Revelation was written after Jesus' Ascension, this is 2nd coming Jesus. Then who is the bride? The Bible says :-
Rev 21:9-10 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. It shone with the glory of God.
Amen !
So Biblically, we DO have a God the Mother as well.
For further information you can type WMSCOG on your browser.
God bless you !
Aren't you saying that "heaven" is a woman? A quick look at any Bible commentary negates your claim. If that was a truthful understanding of Heaven, then I think it would be a universal theme in the NT & book of Revelation, which it ain't.
Bride of Christ is always the Church, always. And it is Jesus Christ who makes the Church "ready", a strong theme of the NT. I challenge you to find a clear & repeated theme of God the Mother anywhere in Scripture. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that the scriptures you quote are not evidence of your claim.
Only Jesus. There is only ine Hero in this Story. And we bring only ONE thing to HisStory: our sin.
So heterodox. Sin is basic...
😢😢
It was Indeed very Positive and Beautiful , But not Quantifiable.
Therefore Could not have been incubated >
And it was Ethnically > Detached from and Brutally > Cleansed.
God's Given Grace is Upon us all > Because something else came after Christianity > Which is Islam.
Which Actually Is What they were heading at. But they Did not have a leader or a Messenger to protect them like Moses did.
STar Seed Speaking
Ma SHA2 Allah :)
Soub7an Allah :)
Don't worry, people, Jesus, Zoroaster and I are working on a future form of Christianity right now.
i was rised celtic christian yet im atheist so iv no real bias. celtic christianity is the most "pagan" of a "pagan" faith that is christianity drinking blood sun worship pantheism an such an as a "pagan" faith it wud of been an is naturalistic. the details are things that changes but the heart of redemption freedom an love have an allways will be celtic cultures base. he mentions christian rules but that isnt the whole picture as the brehon law was the real rule not religion iosa gu bragh
No you weren't celtic Christianity hasn't been practised since the 11th century
Christianity: The Great Idol Worshipers
Christianity is the worship of a name, a book of confusion, and an imaginary god that torchers the innocent and ignorant with everlasting fire forever beyond the grave.
Then there is Mystery, Babylon the Great; the Mother of harlots and abominations of the earth: this Quote can be found in the book of confusion Christianity reverences and worships.
It includes all her little Protestant children.
This Mystery, Babylon the Great; the Mother of harlots and abominations of the earth is just an allegory. So take courage you Christians and atheists. You are not orphans or bastards. You have a Father. Our Father the Great Creator created all that exists.
Humanity has just been in a prison of deception and myth, worshiping gods. The walls are very high and secure; however, True Honesty will unlock those great secure doors; and you can be free. Our Father’s great realms of truth will set you free.
Have no fear of those gods they are just dumb Idols.
In our Father’s realms there is no fear. There is nothing but truth that creates life abundantly. There is a Great Peace in our Father’s realms of truth.
Honesty: is the Secret of Life
Honesty is the highest value set on truth, it matters not where we find it or how it affects us personally. It may humiliate us, it may debase us, and it may wound our ego. But the honest still values the truth above all that exists.
The honest do not judge and condemn others.
The Honest Do Not Claim the Absolute Truth.
We all just search to get as close to the absolute truth as we can understand and master.
The honest live by the truth we know and understand not what others’ proclaim to be the truth.
The honest proves all things and retains the truth they find that is true and creates life, peace and contentment.
No human owns the truth; it is as the air we breathe. Truth is the realms of our Father the Great Creator. It is without beginning or end.
It appears that it is so difficult for religion to face reality of life and face the facts and truth. They think their gods are above truth.
This is a very strange concept of Christianity; in the book of confusion that Christianity reverences and worships it says to call no man Father on earth and Christianity calls our Father the Great Creator a god and calls their ministers and male parents Father. Would not the honest understand that as a great dishonesty to liken our Father the Great Creator to a stupid dumb god. There are many gods. And then think of their minister as their Father.
Those who honestly search, find that for which they seek and need. And the honest and wise are aware of their inabilities and realize their knowledge and understanding is very tiny compared to the vast field of knowledge that exists in all the universes.
Our Father is real. Our Father is not emotion, myth and Tradition: when we understand and know our Father we have assurance of our liberation.
It is all of those gods that are myth; they are just dumb Idols.
Caution: take heed.
If you think you have it all that is all you will have. You have come to a box canyon, or a dead end road. You have reached your destiny.
Perhaps we could view it as becoming blind by our own exaltation, ego and pride. True exaltation is thinking to be above the truth not being above some human.
Until Next time; Sweet Dreams: truth will solve all our problems before we create them; and ignore or reject the truth; problems multiply all by themselves.
Our Honesty is the secret to a great life.
Have a great and a meaningful life if it is at all posable.
Just whispers of the Ghost of Reality
Charlie E Pershall You are nothing but another self-important cretin who thinks he is smart by asserting the nonexistence of God (something that is impossible to prove or disprove). You impress nobody but yourself with your childish drivel. You decry those who believe in a deity and feel compelled to announce your disbelief to a world that couldn't possibly care less what you do or do not think. Go back to your bridge, where you belong, troll.