Heaven is a state of being,and once experienced it most certainly becomes a place.spiritual pilgrimages are a wonderful way to articulate the wholeness of life’s greatness ,thanks for the dialogue Rupert and Mark🙏🌏🙏.
It was a singular phenomenon how the Celtic people took to Christianity, in particular the Irish who were like ultra zealots, producing saints and guys who withdrew to caves. One of my ancestors Finn MacGorman was a bishop of Kildare and wrote the definitive book on Irish kings, called the Book of Leinster
20:33 Aquinas said that grace perfects nature... That reminds me of a quote I read from McKenna, though I don't know if he actually said it, but it was that "time perfects nature", which does sound in line with his characteristic mechanistic style. Regardless, I liked this talk. The general impression I get is that the more shamanic-like, Celtic Christianity was more spiritual and less rigid than the rule based Catholic version. And it ended up causing long lasting sectarian differences. Arguably, this is one of the main challenges for organized religions; to avoid causing cultural schisms; to remain pliable and adaptable to culture in order to maximize propagation, rather than being rigid and insisting on whole-sale adoption. Sure, some people will probably always believe just about anything, but in order to remain relevant, and even cutting edge, I say that a belief system must be adaptable and based on debatable and malleable axioms that evolve in response to culture as well as to the progress in our understanding of the world.
There are many sacred trees including the Yew. However, it had and still does have a very practical purpose, in that it prevents farmers from allowing their livestock stray into graveyards because it is extremely poisonous to them
It would be interesting to view this idea the other way around: how did the druids improve and change Christianity. Perhaps the less harsh views of Celtic Christianity come from the very connection with nature.
I've noticed at my work ( around Nature and animals - deer, birds and gophers mostly) that in the last 5 years or so, they have been increasingly fearful to come around us humans. Whereas before I've actually had deer and gophers eating out of my hand! The birds stay further away etc.. It's very sad and disturbing... like animals know it's we humans responsible for their plight 🙏
Thanks Rupert. Please, please, please try to speak with Jordan. I think between the two of you, you can probably figure it out. What is it? That's what we want to know! :D
@@heidiankers108 Not at all in Celtic Christianity he is the one who ended the Age of Celtic or Insular Christianity in England, see synod of Whitby etc. No one who knows Insular Christianity in England, Scotland and Ireland thinks Augustine was a Celtic Christian leader or influence. He was the protagonist who wanted Insular Christians to conform to Rome.
I love it when I hear Christians having a conversation like this. It reassures me of what I see happening everywhere. People trying to return to nature which has always been the enemy of abrahamic religions. The end is nigh for the church. You keep on encouraging the "flock" to get back to nature. The old pagan gods and ways await...right around the corner.
It's impossible to "go back" to that. It will always remain Christian, even if we stop clinging to Jesus or our identities as Christians. Our consciousness has thoroughly absorbed (though obviously not integrated fully) the new reality where we no longer see the victim as guilty, where we no longer think the humiliated and weak are the shunned of the divine as proved by their state. Since Jesus our awareness have eternally changed so much we can no longer detect it. We now see everything through this lens.
@Joseph LaGreca I see very little there, except some superficial resemblances. Though I do believe one will in deed find all of nature stretching toward an understanding of the Logos in whom we live and breathe and have our being, absolutely everywhere from the beginning of time. In deed the greeks already had a good understanding, good enough for John to incorporate to explain who Jesus were, and good enough to serve as a foundation to understand who Jesus is. Before Jesus, I see very little in the ways of even contemplating royalty, authority, much less gods, worthiness of worship etc. was somehow compatible with being humbled, tortured, enduring scorn, etc, for the sake of the poor, the outcast, the integrity of even criminals, except alluded to in Jewish scriptures. Throughout the world, being tortured to death was definite proof you did not have the gods on your side, and most definitely didn't have the more powerful god on your side and that your god was weak. Even the Jews would never imagine at that time that the Most High would ever allow such things to befall Himself, though their scriptures do seem to talk about it (at least seen through a Christian lens). But of course we see the Word breaking through all over the place, long before the full incarnation as one man, and shards of the same ideas taking form in man. The very universe we live in is also the incarnation of the Word. That this same Word, who also is God, also incarnated as a man to endure our wrath for our sake, is what forms the basis for all moral reasoning all over the world today, whereas before it was almost opposite. It is what actually turned the world on it's head, and we are still struggling with it.
Luther for example had some mystical experiences, but he didnt take misticism into the spotlight thats all. And then some of the radical reformers and later some noncomformists like quakers and shakers explicitly had and have myaticism as a crucial part of their way and worship. Reformers like Calvin and Zwingli likely dismissed mysticism totally.
I'm not sure what to make our the book you mentioned. It does sound interesting but then you said Philip carr Gomm helped him with the book. He it's a druid yes and even today druidry has very pagan leanings. I was a member of his order and studied some of the bardic grade. Please know that the druids cast circles much as witches do. Their rituals are similar to witchcraft. Druidry is even mixed together with witchcraft by some druids called druidcraft.Which is why I studied but would not practice it. I found that I gained very little of use from what I did study. So I would tread carefully when using a book that has input from Phillip.
Firstly, there was and is no such thing as ethnic Celts. The 'term' is an invention and not a name of a peoples or collection of peoples. Secondly, Apostolic Christianity arrived in these fair isles of ours in 37 A.D. with the arrival of remnants of The Holy Family. Attested to by Bishop Boronius (?) and another Bishop of the Vatican who were then housing the records of Britain's King Caradoc's 'capture' and subsequent 'sending to Rome' bringing Christianity into the Romans midst in A.D. 51. Earlier a contingent of Ten Tribe Israel and Two Tribe Judea (escaping from north of Harran) had arrived on the Turkish coast about the time of the 'World War' - the Trojan Wars, circa 638 - 650 B.C. - around when it started. Eventually they sailed from Lemnos (Greek Island) in circa 504 B.C. with some of the diaspora from that war. As you may know it was Aeneas of Troy, the loser, who came to Italy to found Rome proper and were of a twelve tribe or houses peoples too... the Holy Family would then have been coming home to ancient relatives. The Romans 'stay' in Britain was not as we have been taught and suffice it to say that they had been trading with Britain for some time and Julius Caesar did not arrive in Britain to a barbarian peoples - read in Caesars own memories of his praise of their culture and of the Greek geographer and historian Strabo's statements that the Britons are 'not dressed in skins like a Scythian, and speak Greek like they learnt it in the Lyceum...' Whatever 'developments' there would have been here in Britain since 504 B.C., you can bet that they were possibly quite similar to the evolution of the 'Jewish' traditions into early Christianity... the Holy Family would have been well accepted.
Enjoyed your conversation...but please let Rupert participate. Dialogue not Monologue. You also delegitimize your position by constantly referring to ‘climate change’, which has become more a religion than a science.
Complete nonsense. The only people who don't listen to the overwhelming science regarding climate are those who want to protect their own 'head in the sand' position.
Heaven is a state of being,and once experienced it most certainly becomes a place.spiritual pilgrimages are a wonderful way to articulate the wholeness of life’s greatness ,thanks for the dialogue Rupert and Mark🙏🌏🙏.
It was a singular phenomenon how the Celtic people took to Christianity, in particular the Irish who were like ultra zealots, producing saints and guys who withdrew to caves. One of my ancestors Finn MacGorman was a bishop of Kildare and wrote the definitive book on Irish kings, called the Book of Leinster
20:33 Aquinas said that grace perfects nature... That reminds me of a quote I read from McKenna, though I don't know if he actually said it, but it was that "time perfects nature", which does sound in line with his characteristic mechanistic style. Regardless, I liked this talk. The general impression I get is that the more shamanic-like, Celtic Christianity was more spiritual and less rigid than the rule based Catholic version. And it ended up causing long lasting sectarian differences. Arguably, this is one of the main challenges for organized religions; to avoid causing cultural schisms; to remain pliable and adaptable to culture in order to maximize propagation, rather than being rigid and insisting on whole-sale adoption. Sure, some people will probably always believe just about anything, but in order to remain relevant, and even cutting edge, I say that a belief system must be adaptable and based on debatable and malleable axioms that evolve in response to culture as well as to the progress in our understanding of the world.
Love it! I do the Wim Hoff method haven’t prayed in a river though...yet
That was very a good dialogue. I learnt a lot. Thanks.
There are many sacred trees including the Yew. However, it had and still does have a very practical purpose, in that it prevents farmers from allowing their livestock stray into graveyards because it is extremely poisonous to them
Stunningly valuable. Thank you 🙏🏼
It would be interesting to view this idea the other way around: how did the druids improve and change Christianity. Perhaps the less harsh views of Celtic Christianity come from the very connection with nature.
I've noticed at my work ( around Nature and animals - deer, birds and gophers mostly) that in the last 5 years or so, they have been increasingly fearful to come around us humans. Whereas before I've actually had deer and gophers eating out of my hand! The birds stay further away etc..
It's very sad and disturbing... like animals know it's we humans responsible for their plight 🙏
Thanks Rupert. Please, please, please try to speak with Jordan. I think between the two of you, you can probably figure it out. What is it? That's what we want to know! :D
Jordan doesn’t have the subtlety or the joy. If Jordan was learning / interviewing maybe ...
@@imogen.magenta IMO Jordan is very open to the kind of information that Rupert has. Jordan is just VERY careful with what he says and to who...
Peter Brown has some amazing lecture on this subject on RUclips.
Augustine and the idea of original sin isn't really Biblical at all though the rest of this talk I love.
Augustine of Hippo was emphasised.
@@heidiankers108 Not at all in Celtic Christianity he is the one who ended the Age of Celtic or Insular Christianity in England, see synod of Whitby etc. No one who knows Insular Christianity in England, Scotland and Ireland thinks Augustine was a Celtic Christian leader or influence. He was the protagonist who wanted Insular Christians to conform to Rome.
Fantastic
"The collapse of the natural world". Bloomin heck!
yup, felt rocked by that comment too!
I love it when I hear Christians having a conversation like this. It reassures me of what I see happening everywhere. People trying to return to nature which has always been the enemy of abrahamic religions.
The end is nigh for the church. You keep on encouraging the "flock" to get back to nature. The old pagan gods and ways await...right around the corner.
It's impossible to "go back" to that. It will always remain Christian, even if we stop clinging to Jesus or our identities as Christians. Our consciousness has thoroughly absorbed (though obviously not integrated fully) the new reality where we no longer see the victim as guilty, where we no longer think the humiliated and weak are the shunned of the divine as proved by their state. Since Jesus our awareness have eternally changed so much we can no longer detect it. We now see everything through this lens.
@Joseph LaGreca I see very little there, except some superficial resemblances. Though I do believe one will in deed find all of nature stretching toward an understanding of the Logos in whom we live and breathe and have our being, absolutely everywhere from the beginning of time. In deed the greeks already had a good understanding, good enough for John to incorporate to explain who Jesus were, and good enough to serve as a foundation to understand who Jesus is. Before Jesus, I see very little in the ways of even contemplating royalty, authority, much less gods, worthiness of worship etc. was somehow compatible with being humbled, tortured, enduring scorn, etc, for the sake of the poor, the outcast, the integrity of even criminals, except alluded to in Jewish scriptures. Throughout the world, being tortured to death was definite proof you did not have the gods on your side, and most definitely didn't have the more powerful god on your side and that your god was weak. Even the Jews would never imagine at that time that the Most High would ever allow such things to befall Himself, though their scriptures do seem to talk about it (at least seen through a Christian lens). But of course we see the Word breaking through all over the place, long before the full incarnation as one man, and shards of the same ideas taking form in man. The very universe we live in is also the incarnation of the Word. That this same Word, who also is God, also incarnated as a man to endure our wrath for our sake, is what forms the basis for all moral reasoning all over the world today, whereas before it was almost opposite. It is what actually turned the world on it's head, and we are still struggling with it.
Luther for example had some mystical experiences, but he didnt take misticism into the spotlight thats all.
And then some of the radical reformers and later some noncomformists like quakers and shakers explicitly had and have myaticism as a crucial part of their way and worship.
Reformers like Calvin and Zwingli likely dismissed mysticism totally.
I'm not sure what to make our the book you mentioned. It does sound interesting but then you said Philip carr Gomm helped him with the book. He it's a druid yes and even today druidry has very pagan leanings. I was a member of his order and studied some of the bardic grade. Please know that the druids cast circles much as witches do. Their rituals are similar to witchcraft. Druidry is even mixed together with witchcraft by some druids called druidcraft.Which is why I studied but would not practice it. I found that I gained very little of use from what I did study. So I would tread carefully when using a book that has input from Phillip.
What’s wrong with casting circles?
Learn more about Celtic Christianity!
ruclips.net/video/wt4a0IOrWxQ/видео.html
Firstly, there was and is no such thing as ethnic Celts. The 'term' is an invention and not a name of a peoples or collection of peoples. Secondly, Apostolic Christianity arrived in these fair isles of ours in 37 A.D. with the arrival of remnants of The Holy Family. Attested to by Bishop Boronius (?) and another Bishop of the Vatican who were then housing the records of Britain's King Caradoc's 'capture' and subsequent 'sending to Rome' bringing Christianity into the Romans midst in A.D. 51. Earlier a contingent of Ten Tribe Israel and Two Tribe Judea (escaping from north of Harran) had arrived on the Turkish coast about the time of the 'World War' - the Trojan Wars, circa 638 - 650 B.C. - around when it started. Eventually they sailed from Lemnos (Greek Island) in circa 504 B.C. with some of the diaspora from that war. As you may know it was Aeneas of Troy, the loser, who came to Italy to found Rome proper and were of a twelve tribe or houses peoples too... the Holy Family would then have been coming home to ancient relatives. The Romans 'stay' in Britain was not as we have been taught and suffice it to say that they had been trading with Britain for some time and Julius Caesar did not arrive in Britain to a barbarian peoples - read in Caesars own memories of his praise of their culture and of the Greek geographer and historian Strabo's statements that the Britons are 'not dressed in skins like a Scythian, and speak Greek like they learnt it in the Lyceum...' Whatever 'developments' there would have been here in Britain since 504 B.C., you can bet that they were possibly quite similar to the evolution of the 'Jewish' traditions into early Christianity... the Holy Family would have been well accepted.
Enjoyed your conversation...but please let Rupert participate. Dialogue not Monologue. You also delegitimize your position by constantly referring to ‘climate change’, which has become more a religion than a science.
Complete nonsense. The only people who don't listen to the overwhelming science regarding climate are those who want to protect their own 'head in the sand' position.