The Big Guns of Arkham Horror -- ft. Gatling Gun!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
- With the new previewed card Gatling Gun, it's time to take a look at the larger cardpool and see what kind of benefits and challenges your deck will run into while running the big two-handed firearms in Arkham Horror the Card Game!
Increasingly I think the real niche for rogue big guns is as a held back boss killer for a flex. Run your scenario with lock picks and Mauser, throw down your single big gun to efficiently deal with an enemy. The problem is that in lower player counts, you can’t really specialize like that (someone has to deal with smaller enemies) but in higher player counts, your main fighter can’t be gated by ammo, which means a lot of small guns or melee. Makes sense that beretta came with Winifred, but doesn’t really match the theme well, to mostly be sneaky and then whip out a big gun at the end. But I think it is part of the evolution of big guns to rogue.
People have been saying this from the start of the game, but to repeat: 1.Melee weapons should all have an effect where when you fail an attack with them, the enemy retaliates, 2. there should have been 3 versions of enemies, normal-elite-boss as it would solve many issues from the start.
They can give 20 cards to support firearms, it would still be weaker than Melee because they don't use any charges of any sort and even if you do create a Firearm OP cards, it still requires DECK SPACE to actually put them in, where with melee cards you just slap them on the table and you're done, if you wanna "upgrade" them like you would Firearms, just slap that Enchant Weapon or Reliable like you would onto that Firearm lmao, it is a no brainer. If you need support to create Firearms more playable, you are already losing your deck space and some generally powereful cards, and it kinda sucks. I do love firearms tho, and they are very fun to play with, but if we only consider this design-wise, they really are underpowered so i hope they find something to boost them a bit.
I'm hoping for a permanent card that supports Firearms to avoid the deck space problem. You're right about melee, of course, but my main focus here was comparisons to the one-handed firearms.
@Quick_Learner after playing mostly melee and spell builds, while watching the rest of the table play big guns or small guns, I think a permanent that gave 1 or 2 ammo a round would make small firearms way more playable and something that gave maybe half uses rounded up back for big guns. Runic Axe makes it clear that strong use based weapons can exist, they just need a way to reuse without action or economy or deck strain
The thing is, Rogue 1-handed firearms are objectively good. At least the Mauser and the other one that gives an extra action per round, and the .45 for the free trigger on evade. These give you action compression and are better than switchblade in rogue because you get benefits. The problem is these sorts of guns are ONLY in rogue. You just don't get good enough effects in guns out of rogue.
Preach.
@@Quick_LearnerUnderworld Market? All the Rogue weapons are illicit.
Duke said recently there will be a new taboo list soon, and that it'd have "a surprise in it", they could just include in the taboo list that firearms now all ignore retaliate (they'd have to also taboo the .45 automatic in some way to make up for it losing its extra ability), and leave the regular game unchanged. It could work, I think.
that'd sure be interesting, but I wonder if it's enough. Retaliate is an important keyword, but not really one that keeps me from attacking enemies. Would like to see it though.
@@Quick_Learner I agree it does not keep me from attacking enemies but I'd much rather be able to attack the Rougaru with my pistol without risking getting bodied in return than not :)
Very interesting idea. If they're gonna go that far in retroactively doing an errata to all firearms, of much rather see something like all firearms have range 1 as a default, able to attack enemies 1 connecting location away, and then have the Springfield + Scope + marksmanship just stack on top of that, giving that combo a max range of being able to shoot 4 locations away. Now that's truly sniping. I truly hope there's some game wide errata such as this, as firearms currently don't feel strong enough compared to melee weapons. The anti retaliate is nice. Maybe anti alert, as it's much harder to dodge bullets and counter attack, unless you're Neo doing bullet time 😅
It would be more impactful if it ignored aloof. Maybe that would be too much though
@@bernat314there aren’t that many aloof enemies, it wouldn’t change that much.
I am generally not a fan of big gun, but that weapon immediately wins me over.
Full flexibility how many Damage you want to deal, Extremely well reloaded with the rogue pool and a great picture in your mind, when you mow down the boss in 2 fight actions. Definitely wil be playing that one when it comes out.
I agree with many people that the design between melee and guns was flawed from the start, though I wouldn’t like to see errata to change the design of so many existing cards. I think the issues can be tweaked through adding cards that reward you for playing with guns; I know you discuss the action economy of added ammo sometimes being unnecessary, but I could definitely see a talent card that rewards extra ammo when adding ammo to guns that’s take up 2 hand slots.
Id like to see Sharp Shooter get the same treatment as On Your Own and have a level three exceptional version
Permanent you mean?
Yes! Please!
I think a card that merits inclusion in the discussion is Ornate Bow. Similar bonuses with 3 damage per ammo. While it doesn't have the high pool of ammo, the fact that it doesnt require any additional cards to refill ammo offers something that the others in this list don't. It has surprised me in my play throughs of late.
I think it's really good! I didn't include it on purpose because it doesn't really have ammo in quite the same way that these weapons do, it's a bit more like Pitchfork in how often it can be used (although cards like Venturer or Cleaning Kit change the math there)
Yea I’ve been using bow on Rita and Kymani a bunch recently and it was awesome. Particularly combined with haste and blur in a dirty fighting shell. So strong.
Some sort of Underworld Market subdeck but for firearm/upgrade/supply cards would help solve the deck space problem
As someone who has played dozens of Arkham campaigns but rarely dabbled into the big guns archetype, I especially appreciate this video.
As an aside, Daniel, is there a timeline on you and superfeng doing more scenario reviews?
Thanks, as always.
Nice evaluation, I was initially very meh on seeing the Gatling Gun, but now seeing how it compares to the BAR (which I love), the extra XP and resource to play makes perfect sense for +4 ammo, +1 potential dmg per shot, and optional AoE. Tangentially, the new niche for Lightning Gun, curiously enough, is for guardians like Carson, giving him a 1-card solution to otherwise being useless in a fight.
I wonder how viable a talent or permanent that lets you use a 2H gun for melee attack would be? Even a simple exhaust the card to perform a melee attack and get +1 damage and +X fist to some degree. Nice reward for choosing a 2H over 1H.
I'm glad this is a rogue card because you can be playing a dedicated cluever (which are rare in guardian) and put this in your deck in the later half of the campaign to whip out at just the right moment. The massive combat bonus can cover for someone like Trish who has a 2, and tbh other than Tony Morgan other rogues don't do much better.
I feel like we are forgetting a very important reason why big guns are in the game at all, and thats the power fantasy of mowing down enemies with a Gatling Gun. Are the big guns the most efficient way of dealing out damage? No, but they really shouldn't be. Big guns are flashy and impractical, and devilishly delightful. You don't buy a Shotgun because you want to kill a 5 health enemy, you want to kill a three health enemy and know that you absolutely obliterated them. Sure, that's not why everybody plays, but there are players who enjoy that aspect of the game, and its important to design cards for that playerbase, and also to not make those cards the best option, because if everybody buys that shotgun for their deck because its the best way to kill enemies, it saps away the identity of the card and its place in the cardpool. I don't disagree that bridging the gap between melee and firearms is important, but i think that comes down to being more modest with melee weapon designs and avoiding blunders like the Cyclopean Hammer. Really, I don't disagree with anything you said, but I feel like we are focusing too much and cards being ruthlessly efficient instead of being fun. That being said, I would support some kind of global firearm (or ranged) buff, like "ignore aloof" or something.
I definitely understand you point, but part of the power fantasy has to include the cards being functional, too. I remember playing recently with the Chicago Typewriter, and at one point I missed a couple of shots for some reason and was stuck feeling deeply unsatisfied because I was up a creek. Sure, that's Arkham for you, and I don't ever want to lose that, but if we grant how fun it is to obliterate enemies with a shotgun, (and I agree that it is), we can't forget how unfun it is when the card doesn't work as advertised.
I do like your points about big weapons perhaps being unwieldy and impractical, and maybe so, but then I'd like to see them get a little more cheaper and be more like Old Hunting Rifle.
As an illicit card, and all support cards being illicit or supply cards, the deck is easily fished out. Between backpacks, and dirty deeds you can just get to what you need. Sleight of hand, swift reload and contraband to ensure ammo counts. And then Faustian Bargain and high rollers for the cash, and you have most of a deck
It's too bad Swift Reload isn't Illicit, but you can still pull it out with Friends in Low Places or something.
@@Quick_Learner I think this is pretty straightforward for most Rogue decks. Leo, Lucky Cigarette Case, Quick Thinking, Overpower, Viscous Blow (if you can), and then 4 cards of your want
I have high hopes for the firearm design solutions in this set, since Nick has mentioned they had implemented several ideas to help the guns out already.
Yes! I put in comments from Nick at the end, let me know if you heard anything more concrete!
I'd like to see cards that let you spend ammo to do other things, like spending an ammo to evade an enemy at a connecting location or perhaps something as simple as drawing a card. Maybe even an attachment that lets you do a fight action on the gun as if it were Melee and it's just a +1 combat option. Let me hit people with guns !!
I think the big guns are mostly for 3 or 4 person games of Arkham.
I've seen this game played a few times, but I haven't played it. This is an outside perspective that may be entirely wrong.
When you rate these weapons you seem to put a lot of value on the total damage output, a bit of value on action compression, but very little value on the fight value it gives. You assume that the lower fight value weapons will find a way to hit regardless, and as a result you rate highly the weapons that don't have much fight value or ask you to succeed by a lot, and rate poorly the weapons that have a large amount of fight value.
You also rate XP very highly. A 5 XP card should be a game changer that does something that 0 XP cards can't compare to, otherwise it's a waste of XP. When you look at the Gatling Gun you see a moderate improvement to 0 XP cards, but not a game changer.
You also acknowledged that big guns could be good in the right moment, but thought holding them until that moment was unrealistic. You're going to have to fight other things first, so you're going to need to be using other weapons, and at that point why are you investing so much in a weapon you're not using instead of just improving the ones you are? The ammo issue just doubles down on that. You can use combo cards to refresh ammo, but it's not enough payoff to be compelling.
Putting all of that together, I feel like weapons like the Gatling Gun aren't meant for a fighter. A fighter will have the tools they need to get hits, they'll have ways to deal large amounts of damage, and they'll need to be fighting all the time. But someone who doesn't fight well? If you decide your team needs a little more fighting power, adding a basic weapon won't help much. If you don't have the tools to make it hit reliably, you're just throwing actions away. But being able to get 6 damage out of a single fight action at +6 so you can actually hit it? That's a game changer. In those clutch moments when your fighter is busy or far away, or when a boss is tanky enough they can't burst it down fast enough alone, suddenly being a respectable damage source might make the difference. And it also answers the question of "If you're dealing with monsters so efficiently, what will you do with the other actions?". Since fighting isn't your main job, you can still use those actions efficiently.
I'm guessing putting a big gun on a non-combatant that way doesn't really make sense with the meta or else people would be doing it, but I do think it's a valid niche for high XP cards to fill.
I think this is actually a pretty reasonable observation. The issue is that most people don't seem to play this way at lower playercounts, but a flex whipping out a big weapon at the right time is a great strategy in 3 or 4 player.
@@Quick_Learner This is exactly my thought as well. I primarily play two-player, which makes it difficult to play the big weapon flex. However, I might give it a try in a custom campaign/campaign with lower difficulty!