Was Radahn on Ranni's Side? Elden Ring Lore Theory
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Elden Ring lore theory: Radahn was on Ranni's side.
I am correct. Thoughts? Post in comments.
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as i read and played through the game i always had the idea that the demigods that came from Rennala had a close relationship, Ranni giving the fragment of DD to Rykard, Rykard placing so many of his fingercreepers on the Carian manor to defend it, Ranni leaving that defensive spell to protect her mother and Radahn holding the stars for Ranni but losing his mind during his fight with Malenia
Not to mention Rykard having a portrait of Radahn in his manor.
I agree it seems the only demigods with Ill will towards each other seems to be Melania and rahdan and melaina and mohg because mohg and morgott are on good terms perfectly happy with not interfearing with one anothers plan and goals even both leaving a form of protection on the frenzied flame but yeah I always thought that radahn Was hitting two birds with one stone he's holding back the stars which prevents rannis fate so a strong enough warrior could come and deafeat him sent by ranni he gets a good fight and ranni gets a consort basically ranni sends you to her brother to see if your good enough to date
There's nothing in the game that directly say that the fingercreepers comes from Rykard. They look vaguely similar to Rykard's hands but that's all. Speculations are not facts.
@@MidnightatMidian There are abductor virgins in Raya Lucaria so that could suggest Rykard still tries to protect his mother but you're right that we don't have conclusive evidence to the finger creepers being Rykard's design.
@@MidnightatMidian
Mmm
Mm
M mi m z mi nz mi no nnn no
The fact that Radahn even uses Sorcery at all, instead of incantations, shows me that he was indeed closer to his Carian side than his Golden Order ancestry. What a chad
Never realized that the demigods of Radagon X Renella are all sorcery users. Rykard's Rancor from his remembrance is actually a sorcery spell. Ranni has a Dark Moon Spell. And Radahn using gravity sorcery.
How does he get so much intelligence and strength. I think Radahn is using game shark.
I'm more under the impression that he was holding back the stars to stop more beasts (like astel and falling stars) from arriving. Given how secret ranni's plans are/ have been, it's unlikely that radahn would know of her plans. I would imagine they are on good terms in general and he actually gained dominance over the stars to fight against those beasts and not her specifically. This also, could've been more insight on ranni's part, knowing radahn would hold back the stars as a way to buy her more time to set her full plan in motion and he not being the wiser. In the end, I don't think radahn was specifically working or aligned with ranni, but they were on good terms and would provide aid with each other as loving siblings.
Yeah, I always thought this was the Greater Will fed up with Starbeasts coming to the Lands Between and messing with its dominion.
@@Babymech the greater will can send stars as weapons of mass destruction like astel the elden ring itself can manipulate fate by extension the stars we also must remember the elden ring was referred to as something that controls the very stars in the trailer godfrey cut dialogue referred to it as the monarch of stars
I'm glad you finally pointed out that Iji likely made weapons for the Redmanes. Also if I'm not mistaken, there is an Abductor Virgin in Redmane Castle, which is a creation of Rykard. There's also the fact that Iji and Blaidd always talk about Radahn with great respect, rather than treating him as an enemy.
Yes, that Abductor Virgin is no mistake. I hate to associate my horse-loving, honor-showing, gigachad Radahn with Rykard, but why else would that be there?
However, it is hiding in a corner, maybe it insenuates that Rykard and Radahn were on good terms, Radahn was unaware of Rykard’s secret dealings. And Rykard was secretly kidnapping from Redmane castle for his experimentation.
@@mattwebb563 who or what did Rykard kidnapp from RM castle and how do you know Rykard is experimenting. last time i checked he wasn't Orochimaru. he has a torture chamber but I don't know about experiments
@@revengance4149 shouldn’t have had a space between those two paragraphs, that line goes along with the previous line about “insinuations”, it’s a speculation based on the fact the the Abductor Virgin is hiding in the castle.
Rykard is suspected through some theories I have heard to have been doing experiments/torturing people. Possibly for the man-serpents? Possibly for the Godskin that Volcano Manor houses?
@@mattwebb563 ok fair enough I don't think torture and experiments are the same and the Godskin are quite old as well having fought the snow-eyed witch/gloom-eyed witch if im correct. I never really got that part of the lore but the half snakes make sense and could be resembling Rykard himself half man half serpent. so makes sense that they were made by him in unnatural ways. wasn't there talk of a ritual in the rya questline?
@@revengance4149 yeah, the ritual was most likely that women mentioned in her final item sleeping with the great serpent. So it’s probably not experimentation. But I think the Abductor Virgins being in hidden locations in Rykard affiliated locations make sense as a way to show that, outwardly Rykard seemed to have alliances, but secretly he was kidnapping. Not quite sure why, maybe just sadistic torture? Maybe to force people into his service? Maybe to feed the serpent?
Didn't think about them being allied before, but now I have an idea:
What if stopping the stars and the fate of the Carians was necessary to be able to pull off the Night of Black Knives?
If other than killing Godwyn and Ranni at the same moment, this was another condition to make sure Ranni's soul lives? Since her fate is stopped, she wouldn't die in soul.
The dagger that she uses to kill her own two fingers states that it can only be wielded by those who have a fate. She couldn’t wield it until Radahn relinquished his grip on the stars and reestablished her fate.
Perhaps Radahn knew of his sister’s machinations and, like her, feared the dark moon. This fear compelled him to stop her attempts at slaying her two fingers and bringing about the age of stars and the coming of the dark moon.
@@K8theKind maybe, but I don't think what I said conflicts with the Fingerslayer blade.
Maybe she needed her fate temporarily stopped to perform the Black knife ritual, then release the stars and her fate, but due to the Night of the black knives, war broke out, Malenia's and Radahns fight happened and he was no longer of sane mind, his brain rot before he could release the stars.
The sorcerers of Raya Lucaria who rebelled against and imprisoned his mother drew their power from the stars, and the fate of the Carian Royal Family could only proceed if the stars were in motion.
If Radahn, say, thought his mother was in mortal danger, arresting the motion of the stars would have hit the pause button and kept her fate in stasis until she could be rescued.
Speculation: Maybe Radahn had to hold back the stars until Ranni was ready for her destiny. What are the chances that the moment we slay Radahn, one of the stars happens to cross paths with the Mistwood right above the Eternal City?
Ikr
yeah Ranni seems like the kind of person to conspire and make a lot of prep first. The whole thing seems like a master plan that she worked a long time on. she also knew about the hidden tresure in Nokron before sending us to kill Chaddahn
stars had to be held until everything was ready
My theory is that Radahn was trying to play both sides. I believe he loved both of his parents and all his siblings and him holding the stars back was his way of keeping everyone from killing each other. If he doesnt die then nothing really changes, Ranni cant carry out her plans and the golden order is satisfied as long as everything stays how it is.
yes dont have anything to add but wanted to help boost
This seems more likely considering the writer as well. Well said.
How do we explain Radahn fighting Morgott at the capital, if he was supporting the golden order?
@@K8theKind Morgott believed that all the kids except him were overly ambitious and cared more about their own power than the golden order. With Radahn being as powerful as he was its not crazy to assume he claimed a larger rune of the elden ring than the others. Morgott uses the chaos and confusion to emerge from the sewers. He then ambushes Radahn and steals a portion of the rune and usurp the capital claiming the title of Last King.
@@moonmessiah9368 my boy what the fuck Morgott was already king during the First Siege of Leyndell by Godefroy and Radahn carried out the Second Siege of Leyndell, so Morgott had emerged from the Sewers way before that time
For me, I think the biggest point of evidence was that Iji failed to determine how defeating Radahn would benefit Ranni until we talk to him about Jerren. If Radahn actually conquered the stars with antagonistic intentions, Iji would've considered defeating him as a potential course of action sooner. To me, it feels like he never even thought about finding a way to kill him, a reason to do so, nor the implications of his death.
Also during his revelation, his tone while talking about Radahn sounds like the last missing piece of a puzzle rather than one of Ranni's many enemies the old war councilor would have occupying his mind.
i def agree with your theory. a running theme with all the trueborn siblings is their camaraderie with one another. there's only ever beef between the "half" siblings.
Melania and Miquella were glued at the hip.
We dont see or hear about any animosity between Mohg and Morgott, despite their divulging paths. But both of them seem to have ties to protecting the Capital(Mohg's clone blocking the way to 3 Fingers. Morgott protecting the Tree).
Ranni and Rykard collaborated together on the night of Black Knives, hence him having fragments of the Rune of Death. His Finger Creepers also protect the Manor and Carian Study Hall. Places tied heavily to Ranni.
As such, I dont see why Radahn would be the only sibling to stand against his trueborn siblings out of all 3 bunches. I def think he might have halted the stars to help Ranni avoid her fate as Marika's replacement. Eventually he lost his mind, but the stars being held back for so long actually helped Ranni avoid her original fate and then gain a new one to begin the Age of Stars. (Which may have been her fate all along, given how the Nox/Nightfolk have been waiting for the Age of Stars and their Lord of Night for a long ass time)
I do agree that the age of stars is the true ending, and when I look at the plans of Ranni…it really seems like she was waiting for us. I think the festival was to wait for a champion like the tarnished
The one thing that nobody mentions that absolutely eliminates the possibility of Radahn being on the side of the Greater Will / Golden Order is when you fight Morgott at the base of the Erdtree his intro cutscene shows a number of thrones. One for Godrick, one for Malenia, one for Miquella, one for Rykard, one for Ranni, and one for Radahn. "Godrick the Golden. The twin prodigies, Miquella and Malenia. General Radahn. Praetor Rykard. Lunar Princess Ranni.
Wilful traitors, all." According to Morgott (who is certainly on the side of the Golden Order), Radahn is not just a traitor to the Golden Order - but a wilful one.
I'm glad I stuck around for the extra bit at the end. I think that if the Carians had seen an undesirable fate in the stars (ie. being overtaken by the Golden Order), Radahn freezing their movement would have stalled said fate until preparations could be made. Iji's dialogue about Sellen shows that stopping the stars has serious (and sometimes unintended) implications if it made Sellen immortal. What does that say about it's potential affect on the Carian royal family, given their connection to the stars?
Would he have un-frozen the stars eventually had his mind not been lost to rot? It seems Iji was out of the loop that the festival was a ploy to gather champions to defeat Radahn, so I doubt that was part of the plan from the start. It is also curious Iji didn't know how the stars affected Ranni's fate, if that was indeed the whole reason behind freezing the stars in the first place.
I was on the side that believed Radahn was acting against Ranni, but after hearing Jerren's dialogue I'm convinced that's not the case. Maybe conquering the stars was strictly done to stop monsters from space, and halting Carian fate was just an unfortunate byproduct.
I think that’s the most likely reasoning. However, I also don’t think Radahn and Rykard were necessarily aligned with Ranni. All three are ambitious in their own ways, with Radahn as a straight-up conqueror while Rykard and Ranni are more cunning and subterfuge-oriented. I think Radahn wanted power and glory for himself to follow in Godfrey’s footsteps, and we know Rykard’s lust for power lead him join with the serpent, which would’ve made him a threat to both of his siblings eventually. If Radahn were sane and knew what would happen for Ranni if he released the stars, I don’t know that he would have done it willingly.
I think the lack of a precise timeline can throw people off. I think Radahn halted the stars before Ranni decided to rebel against the Golden Order and to plot against it. The war happened, she helped her brother as much as she could, specially with weapons to be used against Rot and in return he could’ve resumed the movement of the stars for her. However, he could never predict Melania infecting him and this ruined everything. Ranni found the perfect warrior to uphold her brother’s wishes and in the same breath follow with her plot, just as planned.
@Furkan Karahasanoğlu oh thank you! This helps, so I assume my prediction can hold some ground!
Another point could be the fact that it takes all this searching to figure out how to help Ranni this way.
If it was as simple as Radahn conquering the stars to stop Ranni you'd think it'd be info more readily available to Ranni and her vassals
Like they'd just pretty immediately say "Oh yeah we gotta kill Radahn to get this thing moving."
I feel like what most proves Radahn not really being a part of the golden order is him being Int based rather than Fth/Arc.
I dunno man. Radahn is going through some things at the moment. Give him some space and let him get his head together.
I can kind of see where you're coming from, and I don't think Radahn directly wanted to stop Ranni. That said, I'm pretty sure that Ranni's plan was kept deeply in the dark, Radahn probably didn't even know that Ranni planned to fight the Golden Order. So Radahn wasn't opposed to Ranni, but I don't think he was helping her get her Age of Stars either.
As for congratulation, there's precedent for people against each commending each other. See: Malenia calling our strength extraordinary.
Last point: Jerren's duty was twofold. Putting Radahn to rest, and fighting Sellen as a witch-hunter (who is probably against all Carians).
Here's my 2 cents
Ranni at least told one of her brothers, Rykard, about the night of black knives and presumably about he plans for the age of stars since there overall goals align, So I don't think its out of the question that she told her other brother. Radahn is part of the carian royal family so (to me) there is no way he doesn't know about or care about the consequences of holding back the stars.
I think the difference between what Malenia says to us and what Iji and Jerren say to each other is that Malenia congratulates our strength in a 1v1, iji and Jerren talk about each other like old friends who just haven't seen each other in a while and directly speak of collusion
Imo Jerren hunting down Sellen leads more credence to him and Radahn being aligned with Ranni because Sellen opposes Renala's leadership. I don't think it's a coincidence that the First thing Jerren does after Radahns death is try to fight one of the mages who directly oppose the carian royal family and not any other mages (tbf not there are many other mage npcs)
@@Chilli2001 I feel there's too many Golden Order links with Radahn and not enough direct evidence towards his support of Ranni for him to be on Ranni's side. Don't get me wrong, I like Radahn as much as the next person, but I feel like generals being able to respect and aid each other doesn't necessarily link to Radahn being a co-conspirator. That just doesn't fit with what we know of him.
That said, I don't think Malenia and Ranni were co-conspirators either. Though I do think Radahn holding back the stars was affecting Miquella, that doesn't mean Malenia and Ranni were working together. In fact, Ranni herself doesn't even know that what Radahn is doing is holding back her fate. It takes us talking to either Jerren or Sellen... and on that note, why is Sellen helping us serve Ranni?
Jerren and Sellen are each offering favors to people they are amicable with, even if they're not necessarily aligned in terms of goals. Sellen to her tadpole student, and Jerren to an old friend.
TL;DR Radahn wasn't directly against Ranni, but he wasn't on her side either. The stars were fettered by his actions, causing fate to halt and the Order to continue. Ranni was doing something that Radahn probably would never have suspected, considering she was supposedly dead... facing the Golden Order itself.
@@OtepRalloma Yep, exactly. Radhan feels to me as "neutral" in this situation. His actions are unlikely to have been the result of directly knowing about Ranni's plan and actions, or even her condition as a soul linked to dolls. Hell, he might meet "Renna the Witch" and not recognize her as Lunar Princess Ranni.
If there is something I am 100% sure about, it's that Malenia fighting Radahn doesn't have any link to Ranni.
Malenia spent her life doting on Miquella and literally keeps calling herself "Blade of Miquella", she definitely wouldn't help another Empyrean.
The fact that she fights Radahn is honstly the biggest mistery regarding the motivations of the Demigods, really. The only good theory I have read is that Mohg's palace is found below Caelid, geographically speaking. Thus, there is the hypothesis that Malenia marched through the entire fucking Lands Between kicking ass on the way only to get back her brother.
Yet this relies on assuming that Miquella kidnapping happened before that battle and that she knew what happened, and that the battle with Radhan was just a result of her bringing an army around there and causing hostility with Radhan.
This also ties into Malenia nuking Caelid to begin with. She clearly hates the Rot, thus she wouldn't allow it to manifest if not the most important thing to her: Miquella and his Haligtree
Super props. In the main story cutscene for Morgott, the most dedicated Demigod to the Golden Order, Morgott himself, calls Radahn a “willing traitor”. It should’ve been obviously he wasn’t with the Golden Order form the jump.
I love how Radagon children with Rennala names start with R , Rahdahn, ranni, and Rykard since his name starts with r and His children with marika all start with M, Malenia, Miquella, Mohg and Morgott since her name starts with M
One thing lot of people seem to miss is that Radahn is a Carian royal.
I think the three children of rennala are all cool with eachother, u can even see a poster of radahn in the volcano manor which solidifies their relationship
I think my question is this: Why in the world is Radahn holding back the stars, when he himself is a Carian Royal? He's holding back his own fate, his siblings fate, and his mother's fate. Personally, my VERY LOOSE speculation is that Radahn knew he would be dead the moment his own fate was set back up into motion, not realizing he'd be fated to be immortally in pain by an incurable disease.
I was under the impression that they let each other do their own thing, which I still kind of believe is true, but you definitely convinced me they were on good terms!
THANK YOU. I always wondered why people keep thinking Radahn is a GOlden Order follower. The responses always made little to no sense.
he idolized godfrey who had nothing to do with the golden order, so i dont know where people got that, his dad was radagon of the golden order yes, but i doubt he would follow his dad after what happened to his mom
If you watched the video right on release: I'm live streaming! The beta for the seamless co-op mod, come on by ruclips.net/video/c6grxfarRKE/видео.html
Don’t think radahn opposed ranni consciously. Ranni’s quest is, by nature, secretive, so he could still oppose her without knowing.
Besides, radahn holding back the stars is the greatest oppsition to the carian royal family’s fate. I can’t believe that he wouldn’t know that this would oppose his familiy, there is no way he didn’t know this.
Don’t think he held back the stars just to oppose his familiy, i think it was for glory or something. But i can’t accept that he didn’t know it would «handicap» his family.
my thing is if Ranni's fate was to become an imperion and serve the grater will then Radahn holding the stars helps Ranni to devise her plan to stop the greater will.
And who knows, Rycard got eaten by a snake and went mad, Renala got fucked up by Radagon leaving and we know there are people trying to depose her, and Ranni was to become an imperion, Maybe Radahn could see things weren't exactly on the upswing for his family and decided that stopping there probably bad fates was better than them basically all dying (exept Ranni but she really doesn't want to be controlled
I doubt Radahn knew about the results of halting the stars would affect Ranni in particular. Some of the stars are not always guiding the Carian family. For example, the elden beast and Astel were once stars.
I once theorized that swirling constellations were accompanied by the fallen star beasts, as well as Astel. It's possible that Radahn challenged the same Astel that once ravaged the eternal cities. The carian family alongside other scholars seemed to have ties to areas such as Nokron and Nokstella.
Radahn likely had the ability to consciously resume the stars if needed, that is until he lost his wits.
It seems that the hold of the stars also prevented the blooming of the Haligtree, and Miquella's adulting. So maybe it was to oppose the fate of the prodigal twins. I think that when Radahn was ''defeated'' by Morgott, he became a mercenary in exchange for his life.
Things I wanna do in DLC: Find out more about warrior jars. Go back in time & fight Radahn at full strength, Fight Rennala & Raddagon as a duo. Figure out how to help Michella. Break the stalemate in the Land of Reeds.
I agree it seems the only demigods with Ill will towards each other seems to be Melania and rahdan and melaina and mohg because mohg and morgott are on good terms perfectly happy with not interfearing with one anothers plan and goals even both leaving a form of protection on the frenzied flame but yeah I always thought that radahn Was hitting two birds with one stone he's holding back the stars which prevents rannis fate so a strong enough warrior could come and deafeat him sent by ranni he gets a good fight and ranni gets a consort basically ranni sends you to her brother to see if your good enough to date
Considering that Scarlet Rot had basically ruined his mind, perhaps Radahn originally held back the stars for another reason, which could've been to hold them back until Ranni's plan could unfold. Or perhaps it was to simply show his strength and mastery over gravity magic. Regardless, there is a lot of potential and unknowns before and after the battle with Malenia, but when we meet him he is likely just holding the stars back instinctually.
However, the only thing would be what would Radahn get out of helping Ranni? Rykard conspired with Ranni because he saw some flaw or issue with the gods that warranted him wishing to devour them. So working with Ranni's plan would be mutually beneficial to some degree. For Radahn, what would he gain out of it? Or i suppose it could be frames, what goal did he wish to reach that would be aided by Ranni's plan? That is something I wouldn't have the faintest idea.
we actually know why he held them back, it's because at the time a meteor was heading for sellia
@@zviyeri9117 Didn't know that, where is it said in-game?
@@filipporapetti9354 "The Starscourge Conflict
Radahn alone holds Sellia secure
And stands tall, to shatter the stars"
@@zviyeri9117 Thanks 👍
The scarlet rot resistance of Iji's weapons is probably the response with his awareness of the outer gods, and could have developed independently to Miquella, and to Radahns motives. But I do think think Radahn's motives were more aligned towards Ranni because I suspect that when Renala met the full moon, that moon itself was a god or messenger of one, and it imparted knowledge of the outer gods to Renala and subsequently to her demigod children. This is probably why the goals of the Carian three are anti- or ambivalent to the outer gods and the Greater Will. Ranni was the only empyrean among them, so the brothers chose two different paths of greatness, one through a snake literally, and the other through might. Also Radagon marrying and leaving Renala might have been an attempt to learn that knowledge of the moon (by conquest or unexpected love) and his response after finding it. Does Radagon love his children, both through Renala and Marika - why does this group of demigods seem so strongly aware of the power of the outer gods whereas the fell twins, through Godfrey, are just strongly pro and against the Greater Will (with Mohg choosing the Formless Mother because of pain and lack of choice)? Margott calls the others traitors, obviously because he is GW fanboy, but possibly because he was never given the knowledge to see otherwise. It also partially suggests why Radagon's children just do not seem to follow through to attempt to collect all the great runes. Sure each demigod is trapped in the stalemate in their own way, but the *motivation* to collect the runes just does not seem to be there - maybe they recognised it was just another ruse of the Greater Will, very, very early on.
If the Stars determine the fate if the Carian Royals, could Radahn have tried to counter the Scarlet rot within himself by halting the stars to "postpone" his fate?
The Jerren and Iji dialogue convinced me
Well, Morgott does refer to him as a traitor.
I think I definitely believe Radahn wasn’t against Ranni, but now there’s something else that’s sort of bugging me. Radahn is of Carian blood, so surely he must know the stars dictate the fate of the Carian Royal Family. So why did he stop them? The most believable and obvious is that he just saw it as a great battle, but would he really do it if it might affect his family? Especially if he and Ranni were on good terms? Idk maybe he really was just that thirsty for battle he didn’t care for any potentially adverse effects it may have on him and his family.
Or maybe, and this is 100% speculative, but Radahn knew it would stay the fate of any Carians? From his insane mastery over gravity sorcery, we know he’s not all brawn. So maybe he knew exactly what he was doing. Maybe he consulted the stars and saw a fate he didn’t like for himself or his family? Perhaps he didn’t want Ranni to go down such a dark road? Purely speculation, but I like the thought.
You changed my opinion from not enemies to friends within the first 2 minuets very insightful.
I want to say before I watch the video I prefer the idea that everything was a coincidence and it just worked out for Ronnie. Radahn was going to hold back the stars because he felt like it. It just happened that Ronnie needed that to happen so that she could sneak pass the greater will. She got the rune of death to kill her body and then the black knife ladies decided to start killing more demi gods but then they invented the sentries torch so the black knifes only got the one kill.
While watching your video I was reminded that Radahn was also a member of the Carian Royal family and his fate should have also been guided by the stars. When Radahn conquered the stars he was in essence taking control of his own fate.
Before his madness, Radahn probably had no idea that he would also be seizing control of his sisters fate.
There is also evidence to support Rykard and Radahn being friendly with each other. There is a virgin abductor patrolling Redmane Castle which means he was supporting his brother with his troops. When general Radahn attacked the capitol he did so through the path from volcano manor. If you look at the map the capitol was only attacked from the left gate which was breached. The only parth leading to that is the path from the volcano manor. There is also a grafted scion in the mountains fighting the capitol forces which implies Radahn also most likely forced Godrick to fight with him, hence why he hid and ran away from Radahn disguised as a woman with the mimic veil.
There's also that Abductor Virgin near the cliff leading to Abandoned Cave, which seems to be killing the T-rex dogs in the areas as you can see many of their corpses around it
You can also think it is guarding the entrance to the Abandoned Cave, since inside the cave is filled with rot river and broken remains of Abductor Virgins, with 2 Cleanrot Knights at the end of it. You can assume that the Virgins are there to keep those Cleanrot Knights confined or it was sent to kill them
@@TheAnaz41745 Yup that is good observation I missed that one. There really is a lot of evidence to support that the house of the moon acted together.
Another thing that came to mind was how the stars halt the fate of the carians, and that includes Blaidd. As shadow to Ranni, his fate is to kill Ranni if she goes against the golden order but with Radahn halting the stars, this allows Blaidd to continue to serve Ranni. And it isn’t until after the Radahn festival that Iji begins to worry about Blaidd and lock him away. I think this is further evidence that halting the stars was in Ranni’s benefit, maybe not intentionally but not deliberately against
The Hollow Knight music perked my ears up.
I think i read somewhere mention that Radahn fought the stars to protect Sellia from the star invasion which carried the Astel Monster.
Maybe Radahn was holding the stars for Ranni at first, to stop her fate from moving, until she killed her body with the rune of death. Maybe the holding of the stars stopped the influence of the fingers for Ranni to progress further to give her time to set everything up for her Dark path. Radahn probably would have, resumed the movement of the stars, or at least the ones necessary for Rannis fate, but he succumbed to the rot, and wasnt able, since he cant think any more
you got a point my @MadLuigi, but I think its more planned to usher in the age of night. Its said ALL of the Carian Royal family's fate is lead by the stars. So I thought it was odd that many Characters (Idji and sellen) describe Rahdan's fight with the stars as a "smashing victory". could be implying it was a effortless victory, or a easy victory. so I say it was FATE that Rahdan's intention from the start was to have Ranni to lordship. to insure that the Shattering had pasted. or to elimanate the greatest threat to her, Melanie.
Your points about the telescope text are fair. But I think there is an idea that that supports the theme of Radahn opposing Ranni that is stronger than what you've put forth. And that is the idea that Radahn learned gravity magic for the sole purpose of holding back the stars and thus Ranni's fate. It gives a lot more weight to Ranni's whole plan (no pun intended) and shows how far Radahn was willing to go to stop it.
I feel like Radahn held back Ranni's destiny in the stars long enough so she could execute her plan to kill her body. Unfortunately he never knew if the plan worked due to being inflicted with Scarlet Rot.
I'm not entirely convinced but ngl I somehow missed the Jerren/Iji dialog despite beating the game 3 times already and that does give some great context
Only two minutes in but I wanted to add something before continuing. In the cutscene, before the fight with Morgott, he states that all of the demigods are willful traitors. Even the way he says "General Radahn" sounds like a sort of mourning for someone who could have been a glorious ally to him in defending the Capital, but as we know from the opening cinematic, that's obviously not the case. It's a complete contrast to the disdain in his voice when saying "Praetor Rykard". I agree with the idea that Radahn was more romanticizing the warrior that Godfrey represents as opposed to the Order he upholds. I think this is a more likely reason as to why he fought in the Shattering in the first place, he wanted to test his mettle against Malenia, the undefeated swordswoman, to prove himself worthy of his ancestry.
I agree, I also doubt that Radahn knew about the results of halting the stars would affect Ranni in particular. Some of the stars are not always guiding the Carian family. For example, the elden beast and Astel were once stars that would actually go against their philosophies.
I once theorized that swirling constellations were accompanied by the fallen star beasts, as well as Astel. It's possible that Radahn challenged that same Astel that once ravaged the eternal cities. The carian family alongside other scholars seemed to have ties to areas such as Nokron and Nokstella.
Radahn likely had the ability to consciously resume the stars if needed, that is until he lost his wits.
Great video, but one thing I wanna say is that Ranni is the youngest.
According to Rogier, Ranni is sister to General Radahn and Praetor Rykard. In Japanese, their relationship is described as "兄妹“. The word literally means big brother and litter sister.
Although we still don't know who is older between Radahn and Rykard, Ranni is definitely the youngest.
Interesting! Some of the dialogue from Iji in the video: "As is the fate of Lady Ranni, first heir in the Carian royal line." So I figured that was strong enough evidence, but this wouldnt be the first time something in the original Japanese didnt get clearly translated
@@MadLuigi Well, maybe because Ranni is the first born daughter of Rennala and the first princess of the royals? I think the Carian royal family is matriarchy since their highest position is queen. Perhaps females inherit the throne before males.
I never heard those Iji/Jerren lines of dialogue so thanks for showcasing those. I don't think Rahdan was holding the stars in place to spite Ranni in particular. I think he was an advocate for the Golden Order and I do believe that he put a stop to the stars on the Golden Order's behalf. He was a child of two worlds but he leaned in the direction of the Golden Order. Yes he learned gravity sorcery in Sellia and yes he spent his childhood in Caria Manor/Liurnia but I still believe he was very much his Father's son. That doesn't mean he did what he did to spite Ranni. Hell I dont think Radahn was even aware of Ranni's plot. The Golden Order was looking to bring the Carian Royalty and the powers of the Moons and stars into the fold so to speak....at least Marika(as Radagon) was. At some point Radahn stopped the stars and stopped fate in its tracks. He might of done this to stop the Golden Order from crumbling and losing sway until a new Elden Lord could arise and right the ship. A role I believe Radahn wanted for himself. So while I think you're right that Radahn was not intentionally at odds with Ranni he was diametrically opposed to her plan by virtue of who he was and what his intentions were.
Radahn fighting Margot/Margit in the still doesn't necessarily have the context you ascribed to it. They don't have to be fighting only because they have opposed views of the Golden Order. What if Radahn challenged the omen king because he thought himself or somebody else to be more deserving of rulership? Margot's rule is unconventional within their doctrine to put it mildly, and if Radahn is a strict follower of that doctrine he might try to oust half brother to uphold it.
This could even have interesting thematic links to the opposition he imposes on his older sister Ranni. Considering the most interesting thing about him opposing Ranni is that he does so indirectly, it would mean that Radahn, lion of battle, draws the line at his closest siblings. The line, of course, being the limit of his dedication to the order his idol championed.
The only thing is that there’s another item that says that The Golden Order halted the stars, which makes it clear that Radahn was at least acting in their interests. I can’t recall what item it is. Someone else will know I’m sure.
Pretty curious to see what you think! I personally think not. He has a clear idol worship of Godfrey and is proud of his Radagon-esque locks, plus the Telescope details that the Golden Order wanted the stars to be fettered (implying the stars were held back to prevent fate from moving forward), but I'm excited to see what cases you put forward
I think Radahn was holding back the stars to protect Ranni. He knew she'd be going against the Greater Will, and was worried the outer god would destroy her.
Makes some sense hecause without your help, her plan wouldn't have worked.
Morgott also lists Radahn as one of the willfull traitors
I love this. I missed the iji and jarren dialogue about each other. This almost certainly shows that ranni and radahn, in the least, were not enemies
No, it shows the Iji and Jerren, who had a long history serving a royal family together and eventually remained loyal to separate royals from within that family, were at least not enemies and were perhaps fond of each other. Their comradely does NOT automatically mean that the royals they serve feel amicably toward one another. Both Miyazaki and GRRM are known for writing with more nuance than that.
It's still a mindfuck to me that almost all the main bosses and characters are related to each other. I can't imagine Ranni being Radahn's sister
It never came off to me as radahn purposely stopping the fate of the stars. He’s war hungry, not a master manipulator or tactician. The game made it seem like he had a single purpose to save that particular city and didn’t understand the broader implications of holding back the stars.
Jerren is Seluvis/Agdayne
Blaidd is Vendrick
Iji is Aldia
Ranni is Nashandra/Licia
Radahn is Velstadt/the player character
Big Boggart & Dung-Eater are Solaire & Lautrec
Its just so annoying that we have no real clue as to why Radahn locked the stars.
It's such a major plotpoint but it doesn't make any sense as to why he did it.
Its treated like "Bro he's just that awesome" in universe. Like what?? He just??? Stopped all astronomical movement???? Because "he's awesome"???? That seems irresponsible.
Well we have to keep in mind that not all stars guide the Carian household. There's the falling star beasts, Astel, the elden beast, etc. It's likely that Radahn saw a threat in the swirling constellations and decided to halt them.
@@CrackHardy it's the only thing that makes sense. I mean a meteor does crash immediately but also that meteor is a good thing so ?????? Also it's annoying because I'm sure lots of characters in universe know why Radahn did it they just don't tell us because our character doesn't ask because there's no button for asking.
I love souls games but this storytelling is getting really annoying ngl
@@shivernaut9884 That's what keeps the discussion going for years, it's a sacrifice that Miyazaki and fromsoft are willing to make. Souls aren't necessarily traditional story-telling, it's an environmental story, hence all the world-building that exists.
Elden Ring does mention that Astel once ravaged the eternal cities, and Astel was the same creature that the greaterwill sent. So you can tie that in as a reason for Radahn challenging the stars. Ironically, I believe one of the eternal cities is right below Sellia, the town that Radahn studied gravity magic.
@@CrackHardy i get that. And i love lore hunting and room for speculation and interpretation. I do.
But i think dark souls takes it a little further than id like? Miyazaki has said that the storytellimg comes from his experience learning English through reading fantasy and not understanding what's happening.
I just think it sometimes steps on the moment when i have no context for what I'm fighting until i find an item an hour after i killed the thing.
The perspective of an outsider in a strange land is a cool one but FOR ONCE I would like to be invested in the story.
Also when i have npcs that COULD give me more info but they don't because that would be too obvious its just obnoxious.
@@shivernaut9884 Well to be fair on that second part, ask yourself this, you're an undead armed with powerful weapons that entered territorial grounds. Why do you think they would feel threatened?
Surely it couldn't be that you're tresspassing.
Surely it couldn't be that they actually know and heard about you prior, knowing that you threaten their rule.
Surely it couldn't be that they simply went mad.
If you want something story-invested, then Sekiro out of the primary souls games actually focus on that.
I think Radahn stopping Ranni's fate was completely unintentional. In fact, most people except Jerren didn't connect the two until it was pointed out. Most likely Radahn was dealing with a different threat or battle.
I think Ranni as an Empyrean had the fate that she would become a vessel for the Golden Order controlled by her Two Fingers. By approaching her brother Radahn and his holding of the stars did this put a hold to her fate, allowing her enough time to enact a plan to destroy her Empyrean body and then later once her destiny had resumed and she was in her doll body was able to slay her Two Fingers. I honestly think the canon ending of the game, inc DLC is the Age of Stars. Neither Ranni, Radahn or Rykyard had any love for the Golden Order all drawing their power from elsewhere. Ranni through her ending brings an end to godly interference in the Lands Between allowing them to exist without diving interference. I feel the pact with Miquella as promised consort was simply because he was challenged to a battle with Melinia that he could not refuse, and not so much out of love or devotion to Miquella and his cause. The Golden Order is corrupt and from what I've read of the DLC may have been cut off since it's creation from the Greater Will. I wonder if this came to be because of Marika cutting off the Greater Will when she ascended to godhood - the shadow erdtree looks pierced by unalloyed gold. Did she, or later Miquella do something to the tree? Questions, questions, questions....
To be honest it doesn’t make any sense for him to literally hold back her fate and know that that’s what he’s done and have people suggest his death will undo this binding of her fate. Unless it’s an unfortunate side effect of some other goal he had that he was unwilling to undo for his own sister. Or because he’s intentionally doing this specifically to hold back her fate, which suggests they were at odds or in the very least competing.
Additionally suggesting that Iji and Jerren can’t be cool with each other in spite of the royals they are loyal to being at odds with each other is just weak reasoning and logic.
I think it’s clear that they had different goals and aspirations and that those were in conflict, whether or not they were on good terms. The only possible way this makes sense elsewise is if, perhaps, Radahn himself was supposed to bring about an age of stars but simply had not yet or couldn’t yet and failed. His death now relinquishing the stars for Ranni to successfully do what he could not with cunning and machinations. But this still seems a bit off to me, because if he conquered the stars, then surely he could bring about their age, if he simply but wanted to.
I tend to agree more and more with the theory that Radahn was on Ranni's side. It really does seem to me like before the battle of Aeonia cut everyone's ambition's short, the endgame of the shattering war was the Carian demigods vs Miquella's Haligtree.
Very true. People keep saying that Radahn embracing his father's red hair means he's pro-golden order. What they don't realize is that from the Gelmir Knight set, Rykard also embraced his father's hair. Not to mention Radagon hated his own hair. Radahn definitely seems to aligns with the Carians more.
What if he halted the stars to intentionally stop Carian fate... but not to help the Golden Order... No, he did it to prevent his sister's Empyrean destiny and buy her time to enact her scheme.
I feel like Radahn was mostly acting on his own. His stopping of the stars seems to have been done in order to protect Sellia and not for the sake of the Golden Order or against the carians. While it is possible he was holding the stars for Ranni until the moment was right, I highly doubt it as there is no evidence.
Biggest thing I heard you miss if all of the astrologers fate would be bound to stars radhan might have helped ranni on the night of the black knives. Makes more sense to have more family behind it game of thrones like
Radahn and Ranni were ambitious and it feels like Rykard got way too desperate. He could have been a great ally to them against the forces of Leyndell and Elphael
Based on my speculation, I believe Radahn halted the stars for the fact that because of the stars guiding Ranni's fate, I think it halted some of her two fingers and greater will's influence until she needed them resumed. But then Malenia attacked Caelid looking for Miquella, and while she got the general location right (as he was below the surface, underground in the old ruins that became the Mohgwyn Dynasty), all she found was Radahn, who likely just saw her as a rival political force looking to take him out for supremacy of the Haligtree during the Shattering Wars and as a great warrior to test his own mettle against. And we all know how it went from their.
To think, if Malenia wasn't such a poop-butt, sore loser and tried a little diplomacy (and in her defense, Radahn as well), none of this would have played out the way it did. And judging by the tone that Ranni has towards the twins, which is fairly neutral, I'm sure there could have been an arrangement worked out. But then again, how else are we gonna get a battle of mythic proportion if everyone uses their brain?
Here my theory what if the stars fated radahn to stop them. Think abt it what if he is dated to stall rabbi’s quest until the right time came along and they could be moved again? Effectively radahn’s destiny is to stop the stars for the perfect moment that would come when we the right tarnished would come and help ranni fulfill her quest. The stars more than likely dated themselves to be in the right spot at the right time to be stopped by radahn than the rest of his destiny or the events he goes through take place then we come along and help ranni
One thing you failed to point out, which is pretty important, is that the Onyx and Alablaster lords are opposed to Astel and the Falling Star beasts. The Onyx and Alablaster lords are "Good" aliens who seemed to aid humanity, while Astel is a cosmic horror.
Radahn was holding back the stars and Ranni needed that to stop so her fate could be changed or whatever. It sounds like if anything he was working directly against her plans then right? I don’t think he was necessarily doing that on purpose though he was probably just trying to stop whatever fell through and destroyed the Eternal Cities from sending more of those I guess. Ranni probably never disclosed her plan to Radahn before he lost his mind as I think Ranni has been kindof hiding since the Night of Black Knives or at least he gives that impression.
she*
Also everyone on Rannis little super team seems to respect Radahn a fair amount so i doubt he was specifically trying to get in her way.
I'm still hoping for more explanations / theories on "Sol" in the game. You have Castle Sol and Niall, who seem to be Golden Order-adjacent (?), and somebody in Leyndell praising Sol as cold and bright, if I remember correctly... At first reading I though Sol was the Sun was the Greater Will, in opposition to e.g. the Moon (and maybe other bodies in the solar system) but I never found much support for that, and Castle Sol is at least partly linked to the Haligtree instead. Is Sol just a lore-less castle in Giant-land?
Morgott is an omen and even though morgott might care about the golden order, the golden order doesn’t give af about him
Radon stopped the stars because he knew if she continued her destiny she would really die so he did it to save her
The stars govern the fate of the Carian royal family. Radahn halted the stars; his victory was "crushing", or in other words, had profound implications. As he was also governed by the stars, I find it hard to believe that he was working against his main diving force of the stars. Instead, as all the shardbearers were doing, he was becoming "that which ye desire, be it a lord, be it a god..." He was wresting fate into his own designs. The victory of stopping the stars was only the first step. He is a Carian royal, governed by the stars, but he was not deigned to be subject to them. He meant to rule his fate by force and to become a god.
Good points!!
I can see why people think Radahn isn't on Ranni's side.
Maybe Radahn was jelly of Ranni because she was chosen as an Empyrean when he was more loyal to the Golden Order than she is.
Ormaybeimjustanidiotidk
Could it be that by holding back the stars and Ranni's destiny allowed Ranni to kill her body while preserving her soul? Its a stretch, but destined death could be something influenced by destiny? The blade killed Godwin's soul after all, why didnt it with Ranni?
Hmm. Interesting theory. Not sure I entirely buy it, but certainly gives a lot to think about.
Radahn probably has the most ambigious motivations so it makes sense why we're forced to theorized.
I don’t think that Radahn was locking things in place intentionally. Maybe he was holding out for the right time to release the stars but his fight with Malenia crippled his mind and his body to a degree. The scenario is that Radahn may have placed a seal on the stars to prevent them from moving until the opportune moment and his new living conditions prevent him from thinking logically to release or remove the seal he made, hence why we have to put an end to him to break it.
I think it's kinda plainly obvious they are working together ranni did not what her fate to happen and did not want to follow the will of the two fingers aka her fate and then raddann stopped the stars which prevented the fate she didn't want from taking course and helping her to buy more time to think of a further plan
What I wanna know is Why Ranni calls herself Renna at the beginning of the game. Who is Renna? Is she the second part of Ranni of just the same being altogether?
Radahn should have had cooler looking soldier’s like, you know, what’s her name lol
I never heard that dialogue from iji and her ren about one another
This makes sense for me
Still why did radhan stop the stars in the first place? Did he just do it to show how much of a giga Chad he is ?
i think that he learn of monsters like Astel doing his studies of gravity magic, and probably did not want anything like that walking around
I think I just cannot accept this theory because it is inferred and I think even specifically mentioned by a character that by freezing the stars like he did, Radahn was freezing Ranni’s destiny as she and the fate of the Carian Royal family is written in the stars. They seem as though they were close prior to the shattering but following the shattering and Radahn’s conquest for power and contrasting goals with Ranni who wants to bring in the age of stars. I just can’t see it at all but it’s an interesting theory.
Edit: I also think that Jerren wanting Ranni to succeed doesn’t at all infer that Radahn did, as Radahn and Jerren at the point in time when we see them in game are very different people to who they used to be it seems. I interpret Jerren’s character as such: he was loyal to the Carian royal family and he and Radahn formed some sort of relationship, at which point Jerren joins Radahn by his side, but is still loyal to the Carians. After all these years and after what has happened to Radahn he now just cannot any longer follow him, and sees that Ranni is clearly the best hope for the Carian family, hence he is in support of her. Just my take on it!
So Iji says Sellen loses her immortality after Radahn's death and calls her a Carian weed?
Nah not having that, I can't let no one shit-talk my favourite welsh-accented sorcery teacher like that 😬
I'm always gonna be siding with Sorceress Sellen cuz she's like the best sorcery teacher and a motherly figure. But I'm conflicted since I married Ranni, making Rennala my mother-in-law? So the Mother-in-laws be at war fighting? 😂😅
Sounds par for the course tbh 😂
Side note: But I love Jerren's armor set and it is shame you gotta kill him to have it. I want to be on his side damn it but the rewards doing so sucks.
Not super relevant, but is Ranni being Radahn’s older sister in the lore anywhere or is that an inference? I’ve always gotten the impression that Rykard’s the oldest, Radahn’s a middle child, and Ranni is younger
Some of the dialogue from Iji in the video: "As is the fate of Lady Ranni, first heir in the Carian royal line." So I figured that was strong enough evidence, but some other commenters have given explanations that could challenge it
I'm sorry but I can't see anything you said in this video as evidence for your theory.
If you look more carefully your every point is : " this item says that Radhan is an obstacle and stood against anything Ranni wanted, but if we theorize they were happy siblings then..." .
The most compelling evidence you used, at least for me, was the interactions between Ijji, Jarret and Radhan. Which still could be considered more like a mutual respect between "artists" of war.
Lastly, the weakest evidence for me was the Rahdan , Ranni and Rykard team up theory. While it is stated clear as day that Rykard participated in the night of the black knives and assisted his sister, there is absolutely no insinuation that Radhan was part of this or even knew anything.
Why does Iji know that setting the stars in motion will reveal Nokron? Is it because he knows that this is one of the reasons that the stars were stopped in the first place? The mimic creatures down there seem like they're invaders from another world
I took the lore connections you provided differently.... I think it highlights nuetrality between Ranni and Radahn, especially on a personal level, and implies a working relationship between the Redmanes and the Carian Royal Family.
It would be highly unlikely for Ranni and Radahn to become enemies, given that their factions are so close. The weight of those organization alone, could prevent anything other than expressed indifference, and even that, could carry some nuance to it that could have political consequences.
So... "Ally" is a strong word, but i agree that Ranni and Radahn would not be "Enemies", and that might be enough.
No, not really. He just wanted the war to end. In the end he did not love Ranni and yet he could use her to make peace. Also, to study sorcery so that he could better learn how to defend against it.
It's unfortunate that Ranni is to big picture to talk about her siblings I'd love for to talk about them
why do you say ranni is the older sister? I've seen a lot of orders Rennala's children but I've never seen the evidence of why.
Some of the dialogue from Iji in the video: "As is the fate of Lady Ranni, first heir in the Carian royal line." So I figured that was strong enough evidence
It's possible that Carian royal line passed to the female heir, as they're govern by a Queen. Moreover Rykard looked older than the rest and also married, Radahn went to study to Selia and help defeat dragons. Rennala also called her 'little Ranni' like her baby child.
Ok i might've missed that part of the story but Radanh's dad is Radagon not Godfrey. Wonder is you simply fumbled up and called Radagon Godfrey the whole time speaking about Radanh's father.