Why Riley destroyed his relationship with Buffy | Buffy the vampire slayer
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Welcome in. You have 18 mins to watch this video or I'm leaving town in a helicopter! But, seriously, let's get into how Riley Finn's anxieties caused him to self destruct. "Why Riley destroyed his relationship with Buffy"...away we goooooo!
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This has been my summary of the Buffy and Riley break-up:
1. Riley is intimidated by Buffy being stronger than him.
2. Riley projects his own self-image problems onto Buffy in order to believe Buffy doesn't love him.
3. While Buffy is taking care of her mother during her brain cancer, Riley cheats on Buffy repeatedly.
4. When Buffy catches Riley cheating, instead of apologizing, Riley blames her paying more attention to her mother's cancer than to him, and gives HER an ultimatum and a time limit to prove she loves him.
5. When she doesn't meet his deadline, he leaves without even sending her so much as a card later.
6. When he comes back later, it turns out that he's considered himself the victim the entire time.
Yes, Riley is an a**hole.
Riley's AITA post about his sitch with buffy would have some SCATHING comments lmao
Chileeee
Agreed. He didn't even express how sorry he was about Joyce. Maybe he did it off screen or something, but it feels shitty.
When you lay it out like that it really shows how Riley was borderline (at least) emotionally abusive to Buffy in the end of their relationship. Cheating on her and convincing her it was her fault, then throwing an ultimatum at her when she's already incredibly vulnerable so she doesn't even have time to process the pain of what he did or the willpower to realize that he was being terrible to her... I hate Riley lol
To be fair it WAS a deep-cover assignment where civilian contact was prohibited.
You are _spot on_ with this analysis of Riley. I liked him at first until Buffy’s mom was dying and he gives her the ultimatum. Ultimatums are a hard pass…I also agree that he was absolutely rubbing her face in his “happily married” pose. He truly wanted to hurt her. Spike with no soul was never that cruel.
I love spike but he did almost rape her
Riley could never really accept that Buffy couldn't be the "damsel"
Having been the Slayer since she was 15 she was forced to become strong, Riley saw it as "she won't be vulnerable with me" when she's that way with everyone(at that point), she didn't need him to fix things she just needed him to be there.
A perfect example of that is when they're in the hospital she hugs him and just wants him to hold her for a moment while she gathers her strength, the problem was that it wasn't enough for Riley.
I don't even want to talk about Riley blaming Buffy when he cheated and Xander's speech...
Also, last but not least, Sam is to good for Riley.
Well said ! I agree completely, and I'm sure I would with the parts you didn't want to talk about. Because... I understand the feeling XD
Sam is too good for Riley and how long will go on before the same dynamic manifests with her? I mean they got married pretty fast considering they couldn’t have met more than a year ago.
The show straight acknowledges this perception and shuts it down. If that were the case, he wouldn't be with Sam, who is in no way a damsel.
She didn't need him to be there, I think that's the issue for him. I think he's useless for her in any that isn't just existing for her to get with.
Riley didn't cheat.
@@angeliprimlani9389 If he cared about the damsel thing, why would that have happened at all?
Oh yeah, Xander's speech....😒
People really don’t talk about Riley’s flaws in S4 enough. Acting like he was so perfect but the audience didn’t like that so they had to change his character in S5. But you’re so right. He was always insecure and projected that on Buffy. He even defended Walsh after the botched set up, and later accused Buffy of murdering her.
I hated him with a passion.
Funny, watching live at like 13, I couldn't get into Riley. As an adult in my 30s listening to people rewatching/first time watchers, they seem to see him and recount him as perfect, but I'm still feeling just lackluster person trying to build off her.
I never heard in live viewing anyone like Riley. And not Angel people. Still tragic how that went, but I was done with Angel too and as an adult see how he parallels a creepy older dude IRL.
I always remember that one scene in season 4 where they are sparing and he looks a bit turned off and disgusted when she flings him across the room like a rag doll. His issues with her strength were there all along, but he was also incredibly in love. Then some months later, there comes Sam. Who can't overpower him physically. So that turned out nicely then.
Yeah, he had a lot of issues with internalized misogyny and a desperate need to prove his own masculinity that were evident from the beginning.
I've also dealt with men who were attracted to strong women while simultaneously wanting to feel stronger than them and it's so obnoxious. They pick a woman because of her strength, but then when they have her, want her to make herself seem weaker and smaller so they're not intimidated. It's so unfair to do that to your partner.
In one Season 4 episode Riley called Buffy an idiot for not wanting to go out with him.
"As you were" doesn't adress any of his issues, he just swoops in as this perfect guy to show Buffy that she can do better than Spike or whatever. It's like they thought the viewers had amnesia.
imo that's because Joss wrote him to be the ultimate "nice guy" as a self insert, like he did with Xander 🤮
@@littlebitavertbf Riley was Marti Noxon’s pet character, not Joss’s
Because his issues weren't anything about Buffy's skills particularly, it was about his emotional relationship with Buffy. If he's gotten over her and is with someone else, what would be addressed there from his end?
@@Dagenspear I don't like that Buffy is made to feel inadequate because she supposedly let go of this terrific guy, when in fact, that was not the case at all, he is far from great, had a lot of issues and he is definitely not somebody who should lecture Buffy on anything at the end of the episode. She apologizes to him? "Now you won't have to" Bitch, please. The only person who mentions suck jobs is Spike and that's because he's jealous. I like that she broke it off with Spike, but it should come after her conversation with Tara and not this bro dude, imo.
Well Buffy CAN do better than Spike!!
Although that could be said by many of any of Buffy's love interest, cannon or non cannon!
I feel like the problems with Riley were largely writing problems. In S4, they oversold him big time, with Buffy going from "Is it that TA guy?" to "I'll die for him!" way too fast, and before the audience had a chance to adjust. They were just expected to go along. Compare to Tara, who also replaced an extremely popular love interest. We got to know her as Tara before we got to know her as Willow's girlfriend. They had several episodes of building a friendship, and the audience had a chance to start saying, "Hey, what if...." But with Riley, from the start, we were supposed to jump right into "Wow! This is the perfect guy for Buffy." Not shockingly, the audience didn't go along for the ride.
Which led to S5, where they couldn't figure out how to fix it, so they put in that weird vamp bar plot and undercut him, along with yes, trying to blame Buffy for it. All of it, you could actually see the mechanics in the writing room, and that's... not good.
That's true. My dislike/boredom for Riley compels me to reject your suggestions, because then he would have stayed longer, and I wouldn't want that, but it is true that he could've been a better character on his own and then he would be more interesting in a relationship with Buffy. And then maybe Spike could've gotten his own storyline with someone else. I don't think it was necessarily bad writing, though, there are some characters like Riley and I think the writers knew what they were doing. At some point. It's hard to tell.
The INTENT was the sell him in the way we saw him and that's why his arc ended the way it was suppose to. Like notice how his wife Sam is the opposite of Buffy LOL
I really think that Riley’s ideas about gender roles and masculine vs feminine stereotypes let him down- an example of how the patriarchy can harm men too….
-Insecurity about being man enough for buffy compared to angel (and even spike) whom he sees as ‘stronger’
- insecurity about being inferior to buffy in the demon fighting world
- lack of ability to communicate his feelings effectively for buffy and expecting buffy to hold the emotional load of knowing what is going wrong or opening up the communication with him (rather than taking that role upon himself when buffy is going through other things/ has other stuff on her mind)
- a desire to be protector and supporter to buffy and not being able to reconcile if she has has other coping strategies that don’t involve her depending on him in the traditional way he expects
Loved the vid 🤩 just saw you put out a few interesting BTVS topics the last week- can’t wait to dive in!
Also I can’t wait to listen to your podcast!
The show straight acknowledges this perception and shuts it down as the main issue. If that were the case, he wouldn't be with Sam, who is in no way what is stereotypically perceived as feminine and is in no way in a role like that in their relationship.
Riley has coping strategies too for dealing with weakening relationships and that's not reconciled by some, people calling it cheating around here. When Riley does tell her, she doesn't try to see his side, she tells him he's wrong basically. Why should Riley tell her about his emotions if she won't take them seriously?
It's exactly that.
He was so codependent, couldn't handle that Buffy didn't "need" him, and had all this raging insecurity and anxiety, because he couldn't fill the "protector and provider" role in the relationship.
And instead of dealing with any of that, being genuinely vulnerable with buffy and communicating how he felt, he goes off and does that getting fed on bullshit. Your classic escapism/lack of coping, because dudes will do anything except work on themselves.
And then still comes back later, throwing his new perfect life in her face when she's going through it, because he always saw himself as the nice guy who was never given a real chance, the victim in all this.
But yeah, Riley is a textbook case on how patriarchy negatively affects men too and causes all kinds of problems when they won't look any deeper or do any of the work on themselves to unlearn/unpack it.
And good lord, don't even get me started on Xander and his nice guy bullshit.
@@Dagenspear I don't remember any (consistent) examples of Riley trying to talk to Buffy about his feelings. I think that the writers put that in at the end of their relationship as part of the ultimatum, but within a relationship, that's not a reasonable time to introduce those kinds of issues.
I honestly think that the writers found themselves at loose ends WRT Riley's character and decided to write him off, and decided to throw some more relationship trauma onto Buffy while they were at it. Yes, it helped to prime her for a relationship with Spike, but it also just seems gratuitous to twist the knife *that* many times on your way out the door.
Don't forget... If your partner is going thru some serious bad times, like mom's brain tumor or fighting a hellgod, and you feel distanced or shut out, talk about it before picking up randos in a vamp bar... Oops, you covered it. That's what I get for commenting before watching the whole video
it’s worth repeating
Watch Lilo & Stitch then model your behavior on David. That’s the only acceptable answer.
Riley was already feeling that way before that.
@@DagenspearRiley was always insecure in himself and too needy. He wanted Buffy to rely on him alone and was unable to understand that she was a strong person.
dont forget reily second mom was killed he killed his best freind and like 20 good army freind were killed, let not forget reily was going throw FAR more then buffy but people like to over look that. becouse going throw ptsd does not matter in buffy.
For me, the worst part is how enmeshed Xander becomes with Riley. Does he sit at home thinking he's part of Buffy and Riley's relationship-seriously WHAT?! (Great channel💙)
It’s weird like he’s given up on his crush on Buffy but he wants so badly to think that a “normal” guy could still pull her
@@hopekeeley2122 That's exactly what it's like!
@@hopekeeley2122tell me that you're vicariously living out a relationship you always wanted through someone else without telling me.
Same, honestly, you really cannot convince me that Riley didn't bring Sam back to flaunt her in Buffy's face, and also to maybe prove to Sam that the girl he's constantly talking about isn't made up
10000 percent
Moral of the story: have a conversation with your partner.
I love your social analysis and psychoanalysis. Yes, a lot of things could have been avoided if Riley and Buffy had sat down and had a good talk. I love the fact that you pointed out Willow was the better person to speak to about his issues and not Xander. Basically, I just love the video. Great job!
Thank you! I'm you're enjoying the vids so far!
You'd think Riley would've occasionally listened to the psychology lessons Professor Walsh taught and been a more well-adjusted human being, but nope.
The moment Riley immediately jumped to thinking Buffy cheated on him with Angel, I was outraged on Buffy's behalf. What a messed up thing to think your girlfriend would do. It was his FIRST THOUGHT. It revealed the utter lack of trust in Buffy he had, despite everything she had done to earn it, and the efforts to forgive things that should've destroyed her trust in him.
You'd think Angel would be Buffy's most vindictive ex, as Buffy's oldest, debatably most serious relationship, and the fact that he was a vampire... but Christ. When I think about the petty shit Riley pulled during that relationship and after the entirely-his-own-fault-breakup, I'm just flabbergasted. You'd think he was a teenager in his first relationship. Him just springing a Buffy-lite wife on her is some Grade A bullshit.
Did I find him boring as hell? Yes. Did I stay Team Angel the entirety of their relationship? Yes. Was I rooting for him to break Buffy's heart? HELL NO! Because I wanted Buffy to finally have some freakin' happiness for once. I kept hoping Riley would get his head out of his toxic ass, but it just got worse and worse.
to be fair… Riley was going through a lot of shit at that particular time. We can’t really blame him for being paranoid about Buffy and Angel while he was in the process of losing everything and feeling betrayed by people he thought he knew. It’s pretty reasonable that his faith in his partner would also falter at that time … especially because she wasn’t exactly forthcoming with the whole Angel story - he learned that from Xander, the lovable guy who damages every relationship he comes into contact with.
It’s later that Riley became problematic. But this is the time when he was the one who needed support.
@@livyykitty Actually, in my book he became problematic the second Buffy said no to dating him, and he argued and insulted her. So it was even before he met Angel, or that the initiative got shut down etc. If someone says they don't want to date you, whatever their reason may be, that's their choice ! But his reaction was quite the opposite, and it was like a red light and siren went on for me, at that moment. Before that... I liked the guy. But it changed with that, in season 4. Before they even got together...
I was wrong.
@@valentynyevenko5047you know though, you really don't see many people on the internet wrong to backtrack and admit they were wrong. Hell, you don't see many people do that IRL either.
So while I have no idea what your original comment was, or any of the context, I'm still gonna give you props for admiring you were wrong.
You pretty much nailed my own thoughts about Riley leaving in Season 5. I'll also note a lot of people like to point out Buffy not saying the words "I love you" to Riley as proof that he was right when he said she didn't love him. I tend to disagree. I think Buffy was "gun shy" about saying the words after Angel. But in "This Year's Girl" she told Riley that Faith would come after the people she loved in a context that included Riley among them. In the Angel episode, she told Angel that she had a new boyfriend that she loved. Then in The Yoko Factor, when Riley said he loved her so much he couldn't think straight her response of "tell me about it" is an idiom express8that o e feels the same way.
But Riley wasn't the only thing in her life. She's got a mother and a manufactured sister depending on her and so she can't afford to break down on his shoulder and he gets all butt-hurt about it.
Agreed. Also, Buffy proved her love through action. He was looking forwards when Buffy was showing him by action. I guess it was difference in love language as well
You are spot on with every single point you made. Thank you!
Riley wasn't the kind of exciting/forbidden love interest that Angel and Spike were, and so their relationship wasn't as entertaining for TV drama purposes. But on paper, in a real-life scenario, he could have been really good for her if he hadn't let his insecurities get in the way.
Yes, thank you, Riley is an endless source of frustration for me! Like, how do you make your girlfriend’s mum’s brain tumour about you?! It’s like he didn’t care what Buffy actually needed, he instead decided what he wanted her to need from him and anything else meant she didn’t love him. Like when he’s all woe is me, my gf didn’t give me all the attention and make me her number one priority while her mum was seriously ill, but practically the second she was out of danger Buffy was with him, telling him how she’d been feeling, opening up to him, seeking comfort from him. But she didn’t actively sob on his manly shoulder so it’s not good enough. And when he tells Xander she doesn’t love him, uh, doesn’t she get to decide how she feels? Buffy isn’t the kind of person who says I love you often, but she shows her love in other ways. Like she clearly cares about his well-being even when he doesn’t when his heart was about to explode. And like when Joyce got sick, she asked him to look after Dawn, showing she loved and trusted him to take care of her beloved little sister while she couldn’t.
Season five is when I really dislike him but even in season four he was showing signs of the issues, like when Buffy found out he was a commando and decided she didn’t want to date him, he wouldn’t take no for an answer. Like, my guy, no is a full sentence, leave her alone! But again he thinks he knows what she needs more than she does. And then the ridiculous assumption that she immediately cheated on him with Angel despite there being zero reason to think that but his own insecurities. And that he pretends he’s totally fine with Buffy being stronger than him but then projects all his insecurities about being weaker on to her like finding out he wasn’t a regular person didn’t make her not want to date him. Oh and when Dawn tells him Buffy cried all the time with Angel and he takes that to mean that this relationship isn’t as good like she wasn’t 17 and Angel literally turned evil and started killing her friends. Not making your girlfriend cry every five minutes is probably good actually!
And the ultimatum, my goodness the ultimatum! She just found out he essentially cheated on her and he has the audacity to demand she commit to saving the relationship or he’s leaving forever. And I’m pretty sure she says she’s not ready to talk yet, like she needs time but is willing to talk later, but again he has to come first and it has to be right now this second. Forgive me or I’m gone. Putting the responsibility on her. Like, if you want to fix this, stay and do it. Don’t put it on her. I hate that she runs after him. Like babe, he does not deserve you running after him. The show acts like Buffy treated him badly, but if she’s like 10% of the problem he is definitely 90% of it.
Wow, I ranted a bit there. Like I said, he frustrates me!
You're right. he didn't care because he was too locked inside of himself to see what was going on around him and what Buffy was facing. Because Buffy carries so much, people often over look the weight of what she carries. Riley very much did that.
reily was going throw FAR MORE then buffy,,
think about it reaily second mom was killed, that his giles, then he kill his best freidn so that is willow. then like 20 army freind were were killed, so that xadner and oz and cordy.
add a drug problem he did not start and his career
sorry but if willow giles xadner ox and cordy were all killed, and buffy acted crazy woudl you blame her.
that what reiley was going throw even the death of buffy mom is less then that.
Excellent analysis. i went back and forth over the years disliking and liking Riley. But that ultimatum and his whole season 5 arc just never sat right with me and I hadn't really put 2 and 2 together. thank you for putting it all into words
Forrest and Riley- the love that should have been.
the ways we were let down lol
Too true this.
Facts
Yup, Forest was his true love. 🤣🤣
Oh 100% forrest was in love with Riley I always thought so.
Riley's emotional maturity📉📉📉
He was.going throw far more then Buffy was. People over.look how much he was dealing with.
😂😊
Why is that funny.
Basically none of the Buffy ships are healthy, cannon or not cannon, but somehow I still hate Buffy/Riley the most.
Me too. And I never thought I would dislike someone as much as Angel.
Great analysis - you hooked me (and my sub) with the opening line! Riley embodies the classic co-dependent fallacy: She doesn't NEED me = she doesn't LOVE me. (btw, Xander's speech was him also totally projecting his "nice guys deserve the girl" mentality)
Yesss to all of this! The original text on the thumbnail was going to be "the art of projection"
@@ryanbtalkstv It's a sign of a well-written show when the writers don't just use characters to info dump and understand that when people are talking about someone else, they're usually telling us just as much about themselves.
Yasss Xander was also toxic glad someone pointed that out!
Buffy content in 2024, hell yeah! Also you are so well spoken, & said everything I was thinking😯
I am always here for some Riley dragging 😎-and your take is chef’s*kiss perfect! I have an intense visceral hard-nope reaction to ultimatum nonsense, and while I was already long done with Riley before that, it sealed the deal for me. I also have always hated Xander’s bs “pep talk” that sent Buffy running after the chopper, ugh, she was entirely correct before that, and Xander screwing with her emotions was a serious dick move. Thank the ‘verse she didn’t catch him! And when he came back with Sam (I’m looking forward to listening to the pod episode you guest on!), he pulled the same crap of not communicating with her-about being married, about the mission, just NO.
I’m really enjoying your analyses! I don’t do any other social media, so I’m glad you decided to add RUclips to your roster, and happy I found your channel. Hope it grows fast! Gonna ping my younger daughter with your link, she’s the other Buffy fan in the fam and we follow some of the same pods & reviewers. Looking forward to the next one!
You have to remember too, Riley’s whole life was revolving around Maggie and the initiative. He didn’t have an identity, he was the big strong soldier protector (who was also being drugged) man who followed orders. It would have been really hard to shift that in a month. His hobbies were folLowing orders, fighting monsters, go to school. And since since Maggie’s gone he was like “follow buffy, ask buffy how she is, be there for buffy” and when she didn’t want him around he didn’t know how to function. And when your love language is to protect and bare burden and the person you love won’t let you do that for them you don’t feel loved or appreciated.
First of all, incredible video, thank you. Second of all, I don't think I ever considered the connection between Angel suddenly changing up and Riley doing the same (from Buffy's perspective), but you are ABSOLUTELY right. God. Thank you for pointing that out. Poor Buffy--that must have been so triggering.
I totally agree with everything you said! Only you said it way nicer than I would 😅 I was ok with him until we found him in the vampire den and he dumped all of his issues onto Buffy, gaslit her, and then threw her an ultimatum before stomping off as if she was the one responsible for it all. What annoyed me most, however, was that her friends (Xander) not only sided with him, but now it's when they talk to her about what he had confided in them. Now that it's too late. And then telling her something along the lines of how she would never find another great guy like him, which prompted her to go running after this guy to ask him to "forgive" her. I'm telling you, this is why I stopped watching the show. Whenever she showed any rage, anger, indignation or fear, they all turned on her and tried to teach her a lesson. Like she was only worth their support if she was nothing but good and noble 100% of the time.
Honestly is there anyone who like Riley? I think he was the worst boyfriend from her and he showed how inferior he felt to Buffy.
Oh yeah. Dead corpses much better boyfriends than soldier boy 🤣You are delusional.
On paper, Riley was everything Buffy needed. Instead, he was wildly insecure about his capabilities, his ability to maintain Buffy's affection, and honestly, just embodied toxic masculinity (I know, the term is cliche at this point). So obsessed was he in his own angst that he couldn't acknowledge Buffy's far more serious situation with Joyce and Dawn. It was gross then, and it's gross now.
SO glad your Mama is doing okay now!
My mom had a life threatening medical issue in like 2001 and almost died, and that changed my life forever, even with one of the least bad case scenarios working out.
Super thankful you still have your Mom around
Riley saw Angel as a threat. He wouldn't listen when Buffy told him she didn't let Dracula bite her. Plus, telling Buffy they have control over her was very upsetting.
But they clearly do. She was a swoony schoolgirl in love with baf boys. She never deserved Riley.
@@keithhunt5328Hello Xander version - you're wrong, can you go away now. Also you aren't listening to the video.
Oh, I do love some Riley bashing! I was done with him the second he decided she slept with Angel-based on absolutely nothing other than the knowledge that she had sex with him one time 2 years before Riley and Buffy dated.
I also hate “As You Were”, because it was ~all~ about humiliating Buffy. Like when he walks in on her and Spike, and just stands there while she’s naked. I mean, come on. So unnecessary.
So, maybe it's a hot take, but I think one of the most recurring elements of the show is Buffy being consistently failed by the men in her life. Her father figures betrayed her trust numerous times. Her love interests (and Xander lol) did things to her and/or themselves because they thought they knew what was best for her instead of taking her side seriously. Buffy is hardly a flawless character, but she was always sincere in everything she did. She gave everything, and more times than not, it wasn't enough. Of course, I am generalizing here, but looking at everyone together, it really seems that way.
I hope you enjoy the vids!
The whole point with the vampire chick was Riley's insecurities about Buffy being bitten by Dracula. Which is one of his major issues and a big reason I never really liked Riley since season Four.
I've seen a weird surge of Riley love in the past half decade, I am glad to find this so i dont feel crazy
I think it's cause people want to be "not like the other fans." Not exactly, but crowds get tired of certain types of characters and suddenly the villains are the heroes and vice versa, it's just a thing society goes through, imo
Not to mention he couldn't tell the difference between Buffy In Buffy's body and Faith in Buffy's body. Also he left the Slayers bed for a 2 bit vamp whom he was also banging. One of my fav Angel moments when he and cardboard got in it ." Your barely standing Boy"
This one was *_really_* messed up, because Riley was basically raped via deception by Faith and everyone acted like it was Riley's fault for his own sexual assault.
You put the things I had in my head into words perfectly. I love this! Please keep the Buffy analysis videos coming! Would love to see something on smaller characters too, maybe Jonathan?
I always tohught Joyce making the face at Buffy when she suggested spending time with Riley, was because Joyce wanted a few hours to herself without being hovered over. She had to be strong for Buffy and Dawn and it seemed like she just wanted a few hours to cry by herself.
It always bugged me how Xander have that speech at the end, like Buffy was the one with the problem, who just wasn't being vulnerable enough or opening up or doing enough.
Like what?
Buffy was going through all this crazy stuff, her mom, finding out Dawn was the key, trying to be there for her and deal with that. Like poor girl was going through it and what's he do? Makes it about him. How HE feels like she's not opening up enough, etc.
And dude was so damn insecure. He's like a car artist in fragile masculinity and not being able to handle that your partner is stronger than you.
And like yeah, I get that his world was flipped upside down, that his purpose and identity got stripped away from him with the whole initiative thing. But like, bro, figure it out, work on it, I dunno. Do something. But don't put all your insecurities on your girl and let them destroy your relationship coz you feel lost and confused.
But nope, Buffy is over here trying to hold her own life together and deal with this literal world ending hell God and Riley gotta be a child about it and is upset that he can't be the knight in shining armor hero type for Buffy. Doesn't give a shit that's not what she needs, that all Buffy needed from him at that moment was support and understanding about what she's going through.
"She doesn't need me." Codependent much?
And then somehow, at the end, it's all spun like somehow it's Buffy's fault for not being vulnerable enough when she's going through all this crap already. Like what?
And she even forgave him after that whole thing with Faith, let it go and moved on. And then he still goes and keys his own insecurities destroy everything.
Great perspective, i always felt like Buffy shut him out at some point but now I think of it, he was always insecure and highlighted their differences (experiences, slayer power) instead of focusing on their similarities
Yep, the anxieties were always there and were going to manifest regardless of the circumstances.
lol love @2:42 Riley needed career counselling ....
I loved this video ! Very detailed and true !
You said what I said for a long time about Riley. A lot of people hated him just because of Angel, but I never disliked him because of that. It's just all those things adding up... And at the end, with the ultimatum, I was like : BYYYYYYYYYE Riley ! I was happy he left, by that point. I hate ultimatums !! But especially there, because he didn't talk to her about anything until he gave her that ultimatum. That's so messed up... And for Xander to tell Buffy what he said... Buffy had a lot on her mind. Of course, she didn't realize how Riley was feeling !! And maybe she could have seen, if you want to share the blame a little. But he also could have TALKED TO HER, it's as simple as that !
In the end, I agree with absolutely everything you said here ! Even about Sam, and "as we were". And I agree that Riley's mistakes started back in season 4 ! With Angel, and him thinking the worst of Buffy (cheating really???) but also, the way he acted when she refused to be with him at the beginning. He berated her, knowing nothing of her past or why she was hurt. He insulted her... I already didn't like him starting this episode, and it went downhill after that XD
This relationship had no chance from day one. Simply because Ryley had a role, a position, and a purpose but no identity of his own. He was who he was trained to be and couldn't imagine complimenting someone with free will.
I personally never had an issue with Riley like so many other Buffy fans did. I actually felt bad for him that he felt like Buffy didn’t love him which lead to his departure. Watching this video gave me a completely different perspective on his character and I now do not like him. 🤣🤣🤣 He was really selfish in the relationship not understanding that Buffy needed space dealing with her mother’s illness and he never communicated his insecurities to Buffy. You mentioned therapy, Riley DEFINITELY needed it after what he’d been through with Maggie and The Initiative. I really enjoyed this video!!!!!
noooo I wasn't trying to convert you into a Riley hater lolol I laughed so hard when you said "I now do not like him" lmao! But, yes to therapy for Riley lol
Ooh, I have never seen your channel before, but I'm really excited to watch all your videos about Buffy! And just from the start of the video, you have Riley nailed. I have an intense dislike for him, maybe projecting some of my past toxic relationships onto him. But it definitely was not that he was boring. It was the way he was so threatened by Buffy's strength.
Great perspective! I have watched the show so many times starting with when it aired and it never occurred to me that Riley didn't have a day job. lol I hear Doublemeat Palace is hiring
I always go back to this scene in "A New Man" because that last line just rubbed me the wrong way. It was never gonna be all right that she was large and in charge. If Riley had any reason to obsess over Angel, it should've been because Angel could take orders from Buffy without giving it much thought (Graduation Day Part 2 comes to mind).
Buffy: Thanks.
Riley: I told you I'd help.
Buffy: You did. If I'd had gotten here any later and if Giles had k*lled Ethan, I . . . never would have gotten him back.
Riley: You'd find some other way. (pause) You're really strong. Like Spider-Man strong.
Buffy: Yeah. But I don't stick to stuff. But . . yeah.
Riley: And you're in charge. You're like, make the plan, execute the plan. No one giving you orders.
Buffy: (a b*at) I'm the Slayer.
Riley: I like it.
Buffy: (smiles) Yeah?
Riley: But give me another . . oh . . week to get ready. And I'll take you down.
From transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?t=8372&sid=e23d109681dc09cb9185411a76688a59
Full disclaimer: I hated Reilly when he first came on the scene and it's only through repeated watching that I have grown to like him (in season four but obviously not season five).
His problem with Buffy not crying in front of him made me so angry, some people don’t like crying in front of others not matter what. Spike did it right because he just sat there and listen, like him or not but that what we want sometimes. Women 99% of the time don’t won’t their parents to fix the problem we just want you to listen.
Riley lacked introspection, had telltale signs of a personality disorder, and needed counseling. Those kids were constantly experiencing trauma and surrounded by death and violence.
I watched BTVS again years later with my kids and saw Riley completely differently the second time around - just one red flag after another!
“I checked in the couch cushions” 😂😂
“Not everyone has to be interesting” lol
What you said is a perfect in-universe explanation for the problem with Riley. But in our universe the problem was that the writers/producers got bored with Riley. But it was a problem that they themselves created. They should have written Riley realizing he needed another purpose and finding that and that could have been interesting. But perhaps it was good in the long run as it would have totally changed the dynamics of the rest of the season, including the season finale, which was beautiful and perfect, if tragic.
I always found Riley's assumption that Buffy made Angel lose his soul was such a horrible insult to Buffy. Like, you think this superhero is going to unleash her own demon nightmare to sate her base desires once? Damn, what a terrible thought to have about your partner.
This is how I see things:
Buffy didn't love Riley in the same way he claimed to love her. That doesn't give Riley the excuses he does. In some ways I view _Into the Woods_ in a similar sense as _Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered_ kind of way. Cordelia liked Xander in that episode but bowed to peer pressure anyway. Whether you liked her decision or not, it was hers to make and it doesn't give Xander the excuse to put her under a love spell for any reason (his point was to dump her while under the love spell. She obviously didn't find out about that as she got back together with him). Cordelia and Buffy aren't the parallells between that episode and _Into the Woods,_ though. Riley and Xander are. Just as Xander in _Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered,_ Riley seems to use excuses without giving Buffy time to think things over before giving her an ultimatum of the "now or I'm leaving" variety.
Buffy and Riley wanted different things out of the relationship. She states at the end of S4 Riley was supposed to be the boring, casual boyfriend. A rebound as it were. Riley unintentionally screwed her plan up by being a member of The Initiative, so she dumped him in _Doomed,_ and after he called her "stupid" for the decision he didn't fully understand (and Buffy was trying to come to terms with herself - witch is why she shouldn't be dating), she gave him a chance. that didn't really make sense as she had valid reasons behind saying they shouldn't date.
Everything about their relationship was non and mis-communication based. From not telling each other about slaying and The Initiative, to _Hush,_ to Riley's heart problems, to jealousy issues, to him purposely getting bit by vampires, to _Into the Woods._
The issues Riley had with Buffy are things he could have talked to her about. By not doing so, and when losing his sense of self when The Initiative fell, his jealousy issues, which were already issues starting in _The Yoko Facttor_ kicked into stupid gear with Dracula, and he latched onto Buffy as a way to replace the hole The Initiative left, becoming as Graham said, "Mission's boyfriend."
Everything Riley says in the _Into the Woods_ episode's argument between the two, is him justifying the actions of his drug and prostitute metaphor, while trying to throw blame on Buffy for not loving him, as if he'd talked to her about it before. He's thrown this blame before at the end of _The Yoko Factor_ when Buffy asked why he was "crazy" with the jealousy. His respnse was I love you so much I had to act jealous and crazy. That puts his issues on her shoulders in both situations. She loves him in a casual dating way and he's obsessive about her needing him, and is in denial about it. Where as Buffy has tried actively talking to him numerous times. It ended up resulting in getting no long-term progress towards either of their issues being resolved.
Riley wanted to comfort Buffy; to give his life that purpose of "Mission's boyfriend." Buffy's personality was already struggling with Riley wanting to do that as she is a strong, independent woman and The Slayer. Buffy opens up to people and allows them to take care of her the way Riley was asking when they don't push her into said action, and when she trusts the relationship enough. It took Giles until the end of _Helpless_ before Buffy opened up to him that way (twenty-two months after they first met). Riley has known Buffy fourteen months and they have only been dating eleven months. If he was patient and didn't push her into things she needed to get into naturally, like trying to lean her head on his shoulder when that wasn't her natural reaction (and leave his jealousy behind), eventually perhaps she would have allowed him to "take care of her." But he had some work of his own to form a bond of that kind of trust.
Being "on top of everything" is in her job description. Riley's reaction to not getting those things from Buffy was negative in every way. A part of Buffy's issues are that she feels that she has to be as emotionally strong as she is physically and I don't think Riley figured that out because he is the one that's dependent on her.
How Riley handles the fallout of this episode is a natural progression of their relationship, but could have been avoided if the two comminicated.
Xander in the alley scene of _Into the Woods_ could have brought up some good points, but the fact that he waited two months and nine days (seven episodes) after learning from Riley Buffy doesn't love him shows it was more about saying 'I told you so' (as he stated he loves to do in the _Enemies_ episode), rather than helping the relationship. Said alley scene is too little too late.
Xander is, in many ways, similar to Riley. That is why he identifies with Riley when Riley tells Xander Buffy doesn't love Riley. Xander is remembering Buffy turning him down in _Prophecy Girl_ (and blocking out his own toxic reaction). Therefore when Buffy and Riley's relationship implodes, Xander guilted Buffy into chasing the helicopter down ("He's never held back with you," "think about what you're about to lose.") Xander shows he isn't acknowledging what Riley has done and just continues to blame Buffy.
The ultimatum would lead to just as many problems in the Buffy/Riley relationship as they already have if Buffy had caught up to the helicopter. None of these things seem to phase Xander. He is just identifying with Riley and therefore sees Riley as in the right even after Buffy tells him all he's done. This goes back to being similar to Riley because the end is justifying the means as Xander succeeded in doing in _Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered._ Buffy and Riley's problems are a reason to let Riley go and not chase after him.
Buffy turning the exact same issues on Xander by calling him out and saying it about him and Anya shows he has his own issues to deal wth. Buffy wanted casual with Riley and was unconciously always keeping it that way. Xander and Anya are serious and its still acknowledged as a problem Xander hasn't dealt with until Buffy calls him on it. Xander didn't, and wouldn't, have saved the Riley/Buffy relationship. He waited too long and preferred to say, 'I told you so.' Buffy said something soon enough for Xander to help his issue with Anya (which is rare for him as he doesn't like dealing with his issues and that is why he's always up in other character's issues).
Xander states in other episodes indirectly that being the only guy his age in a mostly group of females is hard. He didn't want to be the only other male figure his age in the group. That combined with identifying with Riley made what he said to Buffy wrong, despite the fact that Buffy not loving Riley is somewhat truthful. But, there is nothing wrong with Buffy dating Riley casually. Riley just needed to make his own feelings clear or break up with her. By not doing either, he is the bad guy throughout their relationship.
Xander starts the alley conversation high and mighty and then convinces her she needs to choose to run after Riley. But I think Xander actually lays out why Buffy and Riley needed to end it more than give her a reason to chase the helicopter.
Sadly, it didn't end there, In S6, Riley throws Sam, his wife, in Buffy's face while making it look like an accident. And while Buffy ended said S6 episode climbing out of the hole of depression because of Riley, he doesn't get to have the credit for hekping her because that was not his intention.
This was a good take. A lot of it I always felt about Riley, like the loss of his whole community and purpose spiralling him while he tried to make Buffy his codependent everything.
Though I was giving him a bit more grace because I felt like his narrative wasn't entirely wrong. I don't think Buffy loved him. We never see her say it back to him, and while we could say she's secure enough in the relationship to focus on other things we could also say she took him for granted and just figured he would always be there (of course not saying she should have focused on him more during her mother's illness, that was rightfully top priority when they were going through that... And actually Im not saying Buffy should have done anything different at any point, I don't think she could have changed how she felt or who she is, she didn't do anything wrong with Riley).
But, I like your insights too. I hadn't considered the way Buffy committed intensely to Riley in season 4. Or the fact that Riley never really talked to Buffy about how he was feeling or gave her any chance to reassure him before he just sabotaged the whole relationship.
He also doesn't seem to know Buffy very well when he's hurt she didn't cry in front of him. Buffy retreats when she needs to process. She does it with everyone, no matter how much she loves them. Riley taking that personally is a lack of understanding of who she is and what she needs when she's struggling.
Exactly! He didn't know Buffy. He was too inside of himself to see or know her. Buffy proved her love through action. He was looking for words of affirmation and drama/intensity to prove he was loved when this woman was fully committed to him and had proved that repeatedly, no matter how much he kept doubting her. In her life, there was nothing else besides her ill mother, Dawn, saving the world and Riley. She was barely even connected her friends at that period.
Drinking game where you take a shot every time Ryan says "conversation"
Result: dead
Lol
RIP gone too soon! lol
Hi Ryan's mom :) Glad you're ok!
OMG- the first time I wanted to become a youtuber was because I wanted to do an essay on Riley and Toxic Masculinity. Never end up happening, but I actually ended up researching a lot about the topic and it was an awesome journey. maybe I post on a blog someday ♥
"I looked in the couch cushions" A+ stealth pun. XD Love it.
One of my biggest grievances with the Riley breakup and As You Were situation is how heavily the show seemed to be leaning into "Buffy should be feeling bad about this." Like of course Buffy's gonna feel some kinda way and people do struggle with breakup grief even when their partner/ex is someone they'd be happier without. But we get Xander advising Buffy not to let this amazing guy go (as though she drove him off somehow) and then he comes back to rub Sam in her face (100% agree with you on that btw) and not one of her friends is like "Hey Buff have you considered that he did you a favor by taking his insecure teutonic caveman ass out of your life?"
Anyway, great vid, always down for nuanced Buffy content. Looking forward to Dawn videos!
I knew there was a valid reason I hated Riley!
Not me seeing a bunch of fresh Buffy videos in my feed. Will have to check these out.
Buffy fan since 1992 😁
New thoughtful Buffy content? Thank you so much!
I’d also like to add that he CONSTANTLY was trying to tell buffy how SHE FELT and she was constantly telling him like no listen to me, I’m telling you how I feel. Even in season 4- he accused her of sleeping with angel and accused her of going back to angel and wanting him more.. like no .. do not accuse.. ask if you must but don’t just put feelings on another person. Then he did it a few times in season 5 - like before his heart surgery.. he was like I don’t have you and she literally said “I have opened up to more than ANYONE. You have my heart, body and soul” and it’s like dude LISTEN. She is telling you she loves you and needs you.. and she is beyond confused by why he feels like she doesn’t.. like listen to your partner.. I can’t stand that he kept telling her how she felt and it was wrong
Thank you for talking about this show. BtVS was very formative for me. ❤
Riley was a different type of toxic/ co-dependent I wanted this to work so much but he gaslighted my girl Buffy into thinking she was wrong and cut off but no I don’t agree Xander pissed me off so much in this one too
He probably talked to Xander about that because he seems more comfortable talking to another guy about stuff, and his own close-knit initiative group are gone. Xander is the only guy his own age who knows Buffy as well or better than he does. And would definitely be a better choice than dumping his personal issues on Buffys 14yo sister..
Angel was the crazy Ex, but Riley is actually emotionally abusive. True, he is not beating her, but he does gaslight her.
The one area where I slightly disagree concerns Joyce's illness. Yes, it should not have been about him, but when Joyce indicates that Buffy needs to pay some attention to Riley, it is wise advice. Relationships die in a vacuum. Yes, she could not be there as much, but she could have used balance, particularly when her MOTHER is telling her that she needs to do it.
Xander could have been a better friend to both and reassured Riley of her love and taken him out for frisbee golf or something to get his mind in a better place. However, Xander is not really that good a man himself.
In the end, Riley placed all of the blame for the relationship failing on Buffy, when he was a contributer. If she had one her back, he would have repeated the process endlessly and might eventually escalated to being physically violent.
His wife should be pitied because, while Buffy got lucky with him leaving her, she will eventually be subjected to the same abuse and maltreatment.
Riley was safe for Buffy but she needed a challenge He also wasnt secure he didnt think he would be good enough because he was not a vampire.Spike to me was endgame for Buffy.
As an admitted person doing adulting things while enjoying Buffy and crew, I was relieved when Riley left. I liked the character to begin with. But he was everything bad about High School cliques written into one character. Who wasn't actually in High School. The arc did see Buffy grow, but it was annoying in places .
Wow, very insightful analysis. I really didn't want to like Riley, because I never got over Angel leaving, but after a little while he grew on me, and then after "Restless" I could see it and how he could be good for her. He always just seemed too good that there had to be a flaw, but he was good for Buffy, because she needed that stability. Then like most of us who try so hard to be good and "nice", as sincere as we are, there can be a dark side too: an insecurity. At first it made sense to me why he felt insecure. Don't forget: he was also experimented on with supernatural steroids, and brainwashed, and was feeling deflated that he wasn't that powerful anymore. Plus he lost his sense of identity and family, as you said. It's natural he would feel threatened after learning Buffy had been in love with someone so exotic as Angel. He failed to see that nice was actually what Buffy liked about him. I do think there was truth in some of what he said, for it echoes what her friends say and Buffy even admits: it is hard for her to rely upon anyone but herself. With the loss she experienced with Angel, it was hard for her to trust again. However, you're right: her actions showed her depth of commitment to Riley. If she wasn't able to make him feel the way he thought he should feel, he should have talked to her about it--but after things with her Mom got straightened out. Instead, you are right, he let his fears and insecurities get the best of him, instead of waiting to see if they would become the epic couple he thought they should be.
The other thing that should be considered:
Buffy ALWAYS had to be the strong one form the moment she became the slayer, she often had to put things above herself.
She had to appear together for Dawn, for her mother and for the scobbies. Even Riley.
So it makes sense that she didn't cry in font of him.
Riley is not entitled to her grief over her mother's illness.
I exuse Riley for everything. I see all his flaws, my sister and I watched Buffy together and she hated Riley, everyone talks about what he is doing wrong and the logical part of my brain knows you are all right. But I can't help just nodding along and agreeing with everything he says because I just love to look at Marc Blucas freaking face. He is too beautiful and I can't be mad at him.
Riley acted like an 8th grader who had never been in a relationship before. It was pretty cringe.
I'm not sure I remember all the details and I just started the video, so I don't know if you mention this but, I don't think he was entirely wrong with feeling forgotten when Buffy was going through her mom's illness. People see it as him wanting attention when it wasn't warranted, but I see it differently. When you LOVE someone, when you're in turmoil, going through something serious, that person you love and trust more than anyone (outside of your immediate family) is usually the person that should be your shoulder to cry on, the person you lean on, the person whose support you're supposed to want most. I can't fault Riley for feeling not important enough when the woman he loves is going through the worst time of her life, which is when she should need him or want him by her side the most, yet she doesn't feel like he's the one to turn to. I see both sides, it's just hard to choose one right side and one wrong.
Except that she needed to be that for her mom and sister. So he couldn't be that for her, while she was being that person for her family. He explained it better in the video, but in the end... It's still his fault. Buffy has the right to think of her family in a time like this. She has the right to not want support if she doesn't want to let go and cry. She has the right to go through it in the way she wants or need.
I understand your point of view, AND I can understand Riley being hurt. But not as much as to do what he does next... Being hurt does not mean you can't also understand and realize it's not about you ! People go through hardship or grieving in different ways. Me, when I grieve, I don't want anybody to be my rock ! I want to be alone, to mourn by myself. To cry by myself... That doesn't mean I don't love the people in my life. That's just what I need in that process... So I could forgive him for being hurt, because that's human. But he took it way too far in my opinion
@@Sytrylt Oh his actions afterwards most definitely have no excuse 🙅🏻♀️
The thing is a pillar can't hold a building up and implode, simultaneously. Buffy had to hold her family up but Riley wanted her to implode emotionally, so he could feel needed. That's not what Buffy needed and this wasn't the opportunity to make her needs about him. His feelings could have been valid but in a time like that, you have to hold those feelings or not prioritize them over your partner's circumstance.
I wrote it in another comment, but his feelings are perfectly valid here, I agree. The issue is (along with him being a basic character) it's like he made himself the comforted one in that conversation. He puts a lot of blame on Buffy by default, at least that's what it comes off as. He _wants_ to be her pillar but he isn't, he just doesn't act like it and doesn't put himself in situations where he can be. Like Angel just showed up sometimes.
@@Sytrylt This is very compellingly and concisely put into words, probably the same I feel about this plot line as well as about real-life parallels but can't express.
I'm happy you made this because he's probably the one character who's name and face I remember but nothing else.
There are so many clingy people like this, introverte or extrovert, I have been around so many people whose phones are constantly going off because their partners ring, often sulking, for everything, I even had to nip that in the bud with an ex who persistently text me knowing I was at a funeral.
This really highlights how good it was that Angel did move away for his own spinoff, his backstory was interesting, turns out he only really found his place a year before the Buffy series was set and immediately he learned about Buffy and wanted to look out for her, he easily could have been there just gor Buffy but instead found his own purpose and plenty to do.
Glad your mother is fine too.
Thanks about my mom! Yess, finding yourself and not expecting your partner to be your entire world is the move. Loved that journey for Angel. Unfortunately, Riley just quickly married another woman that could make him the center of her world but I guess that's easier than the hard work for self actualizing.
To play devil's advocate, the writers had no idea what to do with Riley so they wrote him out of the show.
By doing so, character assassination
I’ve been a Buffy fan since the beginning and rewatch the series every couple of years. I’m looking forward to more videos.
Same here. Buffy day one gang!
I get the feeling Riley's psychological/emotional development was stunted by his commando training/programming. I believe the earlier Riley was just a facade, a character he constructed and played. The later Riley was the real Riley.
I love the way you approached this topic. A lot of the discourse I see about Riley is very vitriolic. I think you covered it very well. If only he had not confided in Xander maybe he could've figured it out. He let his anxiety get the best of him and I can relate to that, didnt need to go nuclear by sleeping with vampires though.
Living for the long form content 😊 speaking of willow 😁 can we discuss her turn to the dark side and general character development 🥰
I definitely will! I always say Willow's arc could've been a show on it's own
Riley was a pain in the ass after the Initiative went down.
I don’t know if intentional but the writer’s wrote Buffy’s detachment and independence as partially her fault. I appreciate that you don’t see it that way.
I agree, Buffy was in it as completely as she could be. She didn’t see “deficiencies”.
My one negative towards Buffster is she didn’t love him as freely as she did Angel. I don’t blame her, after my first love I’ve never loved that openly and naively again.
Once you know how hard it hurts to hit the ground after leaping off a building with someone (metaphorically speaking), it’s not quite as easy to do it again. I think she loved him as hard as she could from where she was at that point in her life.
I agree but how they framed her detachment. When you look at the bigger circumstances her preoccupations make a lot of sense. Sometimes it's not about fault, it just is. Riley did himself a huge disservice comparing their relationship to another relationship that happened in completely different circumstance. A lot of the intense feelings we saw with Buffy and Angel was tied to dramatic circumstances. Buffy and Riley had a stable relationship. To many that can seem boring and less passionate, I used to be that way too, until I learned that I associated passion with turmoil and dysfunction. Learning that was a game changer. Riley was looking for drama and turmoil to give him that feeling of passion and need. When Buffy needed stability in that time.
@@ryanbtalkstv 100%
I'm happy your mom is ok.
Riley and those fake ass sweater wearing "soldiers" were the worst thing to happen to the show other than putting that chip in Spikes brain. But they could have written that chip in any old way.
Thank you! I’ve been so pissed off about Riley for years but could never put my finger on why. I’m currently re-watching (for the 64644675th time) and I just finished the Sam episode, so I’m good and amped up again 😂
I know everyone says that Xander is sort of an avatar for Joss and I absolutely think that's true, but I think Riley might be his Mary Sue self insert. If Xander is Joss who got friend zoned, then Riley is Joss' "even if I do everything right and I am the perfect boyfriend, eventually the hot chick is going to pick the bad boy over me" projection. Let's remember, Xander didn't really give Riley any advice. In fact he immediately empathized and identified with Riley's problem. And he scolded Buffy like she was in the wrong which left her thinking their breakup was mostly her fault pretty much indefinitely.
Just found You. This is great! Thank You 🤗🙏
Much Love to You and Yours🤟❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥
The problem is that Buffy should have called her father instead of focus on her boyfriend. Her father and his new family could have helped out at that time. Buffy's mother is a kind lady. He most likely would have been more helpful to his ex-wife who could be dying.
He didn't even call back when joyce died nor show up for the funeral.
Joyce was most likely the one informing him how Buffy was doing behind the scenes. And, he must have had half custody of Dawn. (Not sure how that worked because the early seasons didn't have Dawn in them.) Dawn being there - makes the show completely different. So, to make this show work - she must have been at her father's. I think that is why Buffy didn't like Dawn because Dawn had more of love from their father.
Riley is actually a cautionary tale...pay attention Ladies and Gentlemen. 💪
I don't think Riley is badly written; I think all his nonsense is very human, but I do think it is absurd how much the show seems to sympathise with his S5 arc even when he was clearly being an ass.
becouse he was going throw FAR FAR FAR more hten buffy ever did.
think about it his second mom was killed he killed his best FREIND like 20 army freind were killed, a drug problem he did not start, and he lost his career.
i mean if giles was killed, then buffy kill willow, then xander oz and cory were all kiled then she lost her slayer power would you under her acting like of bad.
i mean buffy killing anglus and she went crazy and ran away. riley had to go throw that bur FAR FAR more.
I also liked Riley. I do agree that both Buffy and Riley had communication problems. They couldn't talk about difficult emotions or have hard conversations right from the start. Initially, they were both hiding a double life, but when they found out about each others other lives, they struggled to talk about them. The writers didn't do him justice at the start, so fewer fans liked him than could have done, so the writers then butchered him further. I think Marc did a good job with the shit they wrote for him.
When he comes back he almost makes out with Buffy, if his wife didn't show up I wonder what would have happened. He should have told her he was married as soon as he could, he's still obsessed with her and his wife is the rebound. She seems to know and doesn't want him alone with Buffy. He did seem happy to see her miserable. He really sabotaged the relationship with his insecurities and lack of communication. I believe that if he was in a better space mentally, they would be happy. That's true he lost himself and made Buffy his obsession. I suspect that they decided to throw that relationship out to bring in Spike as a "romantic" interest. Angel and Spike admired her strength, never felt inadequate compared to him and gave her space. She was stronger than all of them.
I really liked Riley. I think the writers painted themselves into a corner. They came up with this great, nice sweet, caring guy who had a strong purpose in S4, and then went, "Well, now what do we do with him?" in S5. Joss always said he thought happy couples were boring and it doesn't seem they thought about Riley past S4. If they wanted rid him, they gave Buffy enough to worry he would leave in the midst of real life/real world chaos, rather than monster chaos he was used to and it come true by accidental pushing. Heck, they even kind of allude to it at the end of S4 in her dream sequence. I see all his flaws and issues, but I still think the writers screwed him over by making him the bad guy in weird ways.
I don’t think Whedon disliking happy relationships was why Riley was kind of abruptly discarded. It was no secret at the time of Riley’s introduction in season 4 that fans just never really took to him. However, the character that fans did love was actually Spike. James Marsters has stated multiple times in interviews that Whedon never wanted to pair Buffy with Spike, and hated having write yet another vampire love interest after successfully moving Angel to his own show. Especially since Spike was originally brought in as regular to be a replacement for Cordelia, as the new sassy and sarcastic foil to Buffy. But fans very quickly began to ship Buffy with Spike, which caught the network’s attention. Whedon received a lot of pressure from both the network and fans to build Spike as the new candidate for Buffy’s love interest, and it didn’t take long before Whedon caved to it.
This is amazing. Thank you.
I've been waiting for years for someone to put it into words. Thank you so much for this, my exact same take on it. People kept on dragging Spike through the mud for that messed up scene Joss Whedon (wth, Joss) put in there, and being all forgiving for the worst case of Nice Guys Finish Last I've ever seen, c'mon.
“That scene” was put there by Marti Noxon, not Joss Whedon. In fact, an interview with James Marsters explains that Noxon wrote that scene based on an incident where SHE was the aggressor, no joke. According to James, she was going through a break up prior to the incident and somehow convinced herself that if she simply slept with her ex-boyfriend one more time, she would be able to make him see that they wouldn’t have to break up. So she cornered him one night and tried to force herself on him. It wasn’t until he pushed her off of him that she realized what she had done. So she wrote that incident into the show, only she was Spike in real life. I’m honestly surprised that Noxon hasn’t been outed by fans en masse as an attempted r@p!st. If she was a man, everyone would have agreed that she was worse than Whedon.
I can't agree more.
Aaaaand…. You got another sub out of me from this video
Great analysis of Riley. His immaturity in season 5 was so annoying. Subscribed!
Check under the coach cushions for Riley’s rationale. Made me laugh! 🤣
l did a thorough search and the logic just could not be located lmao
Such a good analysis!!
Nice video bro, you also didn’t mension that he hated the fact that Buffy was stronger than him; furthermore he never understood her as the Slayer. He wanted things from her that she just couldn't give him. What it boils down too is she was simultaneously too much, and not enough for him. And, that is why Riley Fin has always been, and always will be a tool. Buffy and Spike for life.
Thanks! I did mention the strength aspect towards the end when I talk about why he chose Sam. I agree, about Buffy being too much and not enough for his needs at the time.
Hey, you make great videos! I love them! :) It kind of makes me think that in season 5 the writers and showrunners destroyed Riley's character on purpose so that Spike could come into play in time.
Thank you! I do think Riley's character was a casualty of the fact that her character was being driven towards a darker arc and the Spike saga.
I initially liked Riley too but he got so anxious over nothing. When he gave the ultimatum I was so mad honestly. He was basically festering and he didn’t even say anything to her 🙄. Also omg I think the first couple times I watched the show I liked Xander buuuut the 3rd time around I could not stand him until after Riley 🤣