The REAL reason you HATE Xander Harris!!! | Buffy the vampire slayer
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- Опубликовано: 18 май 2024
- Have you ever wondered why you hate Xander Harris? Do you just want to slander Xander Harris? Are you a Xander fan and want to defend your boy? Well I've got something for you either way. Welcome in: "The real reason you hate Xander Harris!!! | Buffy the vampire slayer". Let's talk!
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Because he cheated on Cordelia and left Anya at the alter.
He cheated with Willow, they both guilty. And honestly Xander feel more guilty than Willow. He left Anya, because of demon manipulation - and it's Anya fault. She's made that poor dude demon, and he want revenge. He uses Xander and his inside fears.
It's not the reasons for hate...
@@IwonaKlichyes. You summed it up. I think people forget that point about the Demon manipulating him.
LOL - I liked Xander. BUT, I forgot about those two events. Those alone are good enough to make me rethink my thought.
@@TodaysDante The show never did a good job of explaining Xander to the audience. He lived in a dysfunctional household his family we see on the wedding episode being terrible we get one small scene on Christmas where he sleeps outside to avoid his family's conflict the guy suffered trauma. It's no surprise he does things like joking in serious situations to deescalate tension or is horrible at relationships it's all he ever seen and the guy was 17 and 20 when both these events happened, he's still trying to figure out life and has not overcome abuse.
welll he fight vampire and still sleep outsdie and is afraid of his father not hard to guess how bad his home life is
The hyena episode, he did a lot of things in that episode that he himself found disgusting and wrong (bullying, attempted r*pe, attempted cannibalism, to name a few) and at the end of the episode who pretended to have memory loss rather than address anything he did. That always rubbed me the wrong way.
But it’s like you said, most of my issues came from how quick he was to tear Buffy down or attack her when she was at a point.
Let's not forget he caused a bunch of human combustion in once more with feeling and blackmailed Amy to spell Cordelia almost causing her death. He also owes Joyce the door Drusilla threw down. Honestly, Xander has killed more people than Faith, why is she the bad one?
No Buffy was wrong. And Xander attack her for her stupid choices that was getting people killed
And then proceeded to treat Angel as if he and Angelus are the same person. Over-identify much?
he never treated angel and anglus as the same person
he HATE anglus does not like angel
BUT he has no reason to like angle, i mean angle almost feed him to spike had to be force tosave buffy 200 year old going after a 16 year old girl
angel has NOT one sence were he nice to xander,
Tbh I feel like the reason he didn’t have any growth was because the writers didn’t think he needed to. Which is telling, especially with Whedon at the helm
Xander was Joss Whedon that is why everytime Xander was enabled by his fans, Joss was enabled to do what he did.
There was no need for character growth because, Xander was allowed to get away with everything..... he was never brought to task for what he did to Anya, he never was brought to task over his lying about Willow wanting to kick Angels ass, Xander was ''The Trio''...... which is why it took so long to see them as the threat that they were.
it is why so many people hate season 6...... season 6's reaction says more about the person, than it does the season.
Very much so. They thought he was good as is. They were sadly mistaken.
He was 100% Whedon’s self insert character.
@@ryanbtalkstvI always read it as some people simply dont grow and Xander was the greatest example of this
I agree, its like real life, some people just do not grow
The only thing i ever hated about Xander it's his hypocritical relationships with Buffy's supernatural romances. I mean, Buffy isn't let to date vampires but you are let to date vengeance demon?
Former. Anya was completely human when Xander dated her while Angel was an undead demon who murdered a person they loved or tortured tried to kill them.
@@lance9249 not Angel. Angelus. It's different personalities and even then Angel constantly shows huge remorse for what his evil alter-ego did. Anya on the other hand wasn't showing any remorse until season 7. It's even more hypocritical when Xander say that he won't forgive Spike cause he "exterminate half of Europe" in his past while I'm pretty sure Anya killed much more people.
Anya human. Spike souless still a mass murder and rapist.
When he got his soul back Xander never said a word. So not a hypocrisy
I feel like Xander was just Joss Whedon's POV character, and he says what Whedon thinks about women and does what Whedon wishes he could do.
This comment right here!!! JW had said Xander was him and we all know how problematic he is. 🙄
@@KillerCammy85”problematic”
Lol no you’re not the problem at all
joss said xander was PART of him same with buffy and giles.
Warren is Xander free of inhibitions
I did a tik tok about this awhile ago. Maybe I'll make a vid over here about it. I think Xander is Joss' insert before he'd gained success/power and Warren represents Joss after he gained power, the ability to act out on feelings of entitlement and abuse that power.
@@ryanbtalkstv I can totally see that!
Wow well said
@@ryanbtalkstvoh my gosh that’s totally how I feel about Xander!!
Yeah, that hit dead on.
Yeah, Cordilla only steps in when things are at the absolute lowest. Once squarring off against a vampire. This time against Xander. If Cordialla has to step up defend someone, you know you screwed up
EXACTLY..
Yeah, I always felt so many of Xander's underhanded digs at Buffy were because she turned him down. Which is honestly just really yucky. He's my least favorite charecter. And you brought up a great point of no accountability. Showing my husband this show, that was his main complaint. There is never any real accountability for Xander or Willow. It's kind of always just brushed under the rug.
I hated that
Buffy let how many people die. But Xander get bash
@@az21bob666umm Buffy is ONE person
Just like Superman, she can’t save everyone
Willow, Xander or the others would have the SAME weight on their shoulders..
they do have the same weight they are hero just liek buffy, remember buffy NEVER beat a big bad without help
The first time I watched through the show I had no problem with Xander, I was young and emotionally immature, It could also be that I am ND and at the time didn't understand social interactions as well as I do now. But as I grew up and became more mature and emotionally mature I started to see how much of a walking red flag Xander was and oh boy is that an understatement. These days, I feel Xander only really had two scenes where he was genuinely, and momentarily a good character. 1 is of course, the yellow crayon speech. The other is one I don't see people talk about much but I feel it's underrated, maybe it's emotional impact didn't hit others the way it hit me. When Xander gives dawn the speech about her being extraordinary when she found out she wasn't a potential, Oooof. Other than those two moments. Xander is pretty much a manchild who never took the time to grow up emotionally and realize how his actions affect those around him.
What does nd mean? Also, how did he have red flags? He was a great friend to everyone in his group, which is why they kept him around for seven years. Sure he had flaws, but who doesn't?
@@davidmeadows5627 ND = neurodivergent (I'm autistic, which means I'm ND, but other conditions are also classified as ND).
Thank you. This explains a lot.
Agreed!
If you really believe that. You less mature as a adult then you were as.a.child.
Xander again Buffy when she doing something that get other people kill like not killing anglus and runmig. Away. Or could get her killed like sleeping with spike a mass murder that his chip don't work on her
People over look how dangerous that is. And hideing it was putting ever else km danger.
"Willow said kick his ass" - I was so relieved when they revealed that in latter seasons but it was never resolved, they went over it so fast, and then I was mad again.
Xander was right Buffy almost died without holding back had she went into the battle holding out hope Angel would return she might have died.
@@lance9249 She would have done the same regardless of Xander. She always did what she had to. He could have not said anything but he chose to lie or he could have said kick his ass without adding "Willow said" but he was a coward
buffy does not do what she has to she let anglus run around for mouths kill what 10 50 people more
every day she let anglus live she was betraling her freind, her caling and all the innocent people in sunydale.
people should be bashing buffy but they go well xadner lied
buffy let anglus run around killing for mouths there should be a million post about how buffy evil and selfish and how she let all those people die but no there xander lied post
Xander felt like he had this superiority complex and entitlement to the woman on the show. Like you said, there was never any balance for him. I think the thing that made his character worse for me was that the show would reward his horrible behavior to his friends, i.e., making his bad hot takes correct or not punishing him in the same way others would get punished.
I never thought he was entitled. To women.
No but he did, a bit to often.
but he NEVER did, entited is they should love me not it hurt they dont love me it 2 different things
Your video popped up as a recommended video. I'm glad it did. You made a great video with very detailed points. It's been years since I was "in" the Buffy universe, but you still pulled me into it with your conversational tone and backed it up with so many details and receipts. Great vid! Thanks!
Thank you! I really appreciate the detailed compliment! Welcome back to the hellmouth!
I hated Xander until he decided he was going to marry Anya. I thought their relationship was one of the only good things happening in season six and that they were having some cold feet but theyd get over it. Then he leaves her at the alter even after it was explained that it was someone with a vendetta trying to break them up with lies. Now its back to being the worst again.
This man is constantly negative and frames it as being protective but its just controlling at heart. He's digusting
it not contorling at all, if it there a chacne it get someone killed then it ok to judge people for it.
i spike was a mass murder and rapist sleeping with him was very dangerous taht why xander had a problem with it,
buffy sleeping with parker xander had no problem
see the difference
From what I understand, Xander was Joss Whedon's self-insert, and that would explain a lot, especially with discoveries made since then about Joss and how he treats people, especially women.
Exactly why Xander is a proto incel
@@gingerkid1048you use words learned on tiktok that you don't understand
He was Joss self-insert, is that why they planned him to be gay but changed it when Oz left?
All the characters did messed up stuff. But I don’t think the writers were ever fully aware of how messed up some of the things Xander said/did were. A lot of things just got swept under the rug and never really investigated. I think that it partly due to the time. Xander was the classic “nice guy”. He had female friends. He was (mostly) loyal to them. He wasn’t a cheater. He wasn’t an obvious macho, aggressive jackass. He was supposed to be a nerd. So, I feel the writers likely viewed his hypocrisy and judgmental tendencies and possessiveness as not that harmful because he was an overall “nice guy.” They never really felt the need to confront that stuff in meaningful ways. I also just don’t think the writers were as invested in him as they were Buffy and Willow. Nicholas has talked about Joss telling him that they had planned on killing off Xander at the end of season 3. But Nicholas asked to continue. They kept Xander alive but warned him that he wouldn’t be getting as much attention as Buffy and Willow. Hell, you can almost tell that the writers weren’t that invested in Xander by them immediately putting him with Anya in season 4 and her quickly becoming the funnier and most interesting character of the two. They lost interest in him. He never really got an arc or a storyline post season 3, just an episode every ten installments or so that focused on him. And therefore a lot of things that should have been addressed or fleshed out never really was with him. In conclusion, the combo of “nice guy” syndrome and the writers losing interest in him is why a lot of Xander things don’t play as well today and he seems to have no real arc.
He was a cheater. He cheated on Cordy.
@@lifelikelisa I didn’t see that as a serious relationship. It’s also apparent that the writers didn’t see that as big of a betrayal as it actually was.
That's because Xander was Joss and we all know what a jerk he turned out to be.
@@russellward4624I mean, Willow r*ped Tara repeatedly. Dint know why she always gets a pass for that, when she should be in prison.
willow cheated on OZ but she never get bash for it
buffy cheated again that over looked
I wouldn't say I hate Xander but especially in the early seasons he can be pretty unlikeable.
And I totally agree that it's a shame that so many things weren't addressed when it comes to Xander. I'm so annoyed everytime I watch season 7 because they just sort of gloss over the fact that Xander lied to Buffy regarding Angel. Willow just says something like "I never said that!" and that's it. Buffy seems to not even recognise what Willow says. I would have expected Willow and especially Buffy getting furious with Xander.
Buffy does address it later when she brings up the kick his butt line. But she doesn't press, which shows that she may hate that he did it. But she can understand why he did and can see why it was nescesary for the world.
The writers have stated Buffy would have lost if she thought Angel had any chance of coming back, since she would have held back. So Xander's lie did save the world in the writer's mind and was nescesary. That's why they didn't take Xander to task over it. They didn't see it as bad. And we know at least two of the writers are pretty gross people, so it's really making sense why all the characters worst traits never get brought up properly in show.
Willow should have gotten mad at him though. Because even if Xander had a reasonable thought proccess behind not telling buffy about the second attempt. He should not have put willows words into the kicking his butt thing. That's the really horrible part and is the reason Buffy ran away. If he didn't say that part, Buffy would have stayed with Willow over the summer/gone on a summer roadtrip with her and Oz or something. Or at least been in contact with Willow with Willow keeping it secret.
@@kyleellis1825 I know joss was the gross writer but who was the other one?
@@razycrandomgirl Marti. The entire spike/buffy storyline was her, with the bathroom scene even something she proudly proclaimed to have done to an ex boyfriend.
@kyleellis1825 I thought joss pushed for the bathroom scene. I remember reading that he wanted spike to do something so egregious because he didn’t like all of the fans liking spike so much and he wanted to remind them he’s an awful vampire
@@lindseystein9676I thought you meant Steven DeKnight, the writer who called Jenna Ortega toxic for having input into her character on Wednesday. Idk how Marti was in the Buffy writers room but on Mad Men she helped fight against sexual harassment in the writers room.
I think you nailed this, tbh. Yes, all of them are deeply flawed characters, but most of them got to confront those flaws at some point during the series and learn from it. It’s hard to hate someone who recognises their mistakes and tries to make up for them. Xander never really had those moments, and so you come away with the idea that he was being given tacit permission to be a jackass. He ended the show believing that he was justified in all the horrible things he did, because he was never shown a mirror and made to look at his true reflection.
Xander was supposed to come to the realization that he was gay. If you go back to the first 2 seasons you can see it bubbling in the background. But then the writers scrapped that storyline and gave it to Willow when Oz left. They were like we can't have 2 gay main characters and they didn't know what to do with him.
That would be have made him more interesting and bolder man living in his truth .
Faith Sexually Assaulting Xander would have been a great narrative to explore how men can be victims and how it affects them in a world that just brushes it off.
I agree though this show pretty much ignores all sexual assault besides Warren. Willow erases Tara memories then scissors her without Tara being able to give consent because her memories were erased which is sexual assault.
Realy should habe been him.having PTSD. I mean he kill his best friend. His second mom was killed. And like what 20 army friends were killed. And a drug problem. He did not start.
Xander Harris is Ash. No particular talents, skills or powers. Constantly tries to weasel out of confrontation. But when t e chips are down, he comes through like a boss.
Consider The Zeppo. Xander is a cowardly weasel through most of the episode. Until he realizes that the bullies who have tormented him for years are now zombies. And zombies are something he's dealt with before. So he goes Boss Mode and takes them down until his final confrontation with Jack over the bomb where he's utterly fearless.
But when he's with the rest of the gang, he's Shaggy, the ineffectual doofus.
I liked his character ok enough in season 1 but I couldn't forgive he or Willow after cheating on Oz. I still liked the show a lot: especially for Spike and Anya, but who could cheat on Oz? He's the best!!
I dislike him greatly. Even if I enjoyed his humor and felt him the only ''normal'' one of the bunch, hence the most relatable.
His hatred for Angel puts me off despite me not loving Angel all that much.
He never got over the fact Buffy rejected him, so he had to hate any boyfriend she had.
Riley he liked because they were so alike. It felt like Xander loved Riley more than Buffy ever did.
Then there's leaving Anya at the altar. That is disgusting, no matter how you look at it.
And before that, there's him ruining Willow's relationship with Oz.
I found that worse than his cheating on Cordelia.
Willow had been after him for so long and he knew it! He only noticed her when she found someone else.
That said, I love how he was there for Buffy despite not having to.
Most people would leave such a dangerous friend behind.
And I love his scene with Dark Willow,
I cannot hate him, but I'm happy buffy and Willow dodged THAT bullet.
I really wish he was held accountable for the bullshit he did, like most other characters.
Held accountable like when Willow erased Tara memories and raped her?
At first, I found Xander the bland, generic nice guy, then as a jilted guy-pal in the friend zone, to a hypocritical, petulant man-child. I don't know what the writers were thinking but they really screwed up with him.
becouse he was never hypocitral, and he was right most of the time
There seemed to be a certain block of Season Seven where everyone seems to have broken their brains and lost their minds:
Buffy: The First wants us all dead, likes to feed us information to lead us into traps, so let's keep following that information and rushing into those traps!
Everyone else in the Scooby Gang: The First wants us all dead, likes to feed us information to lead us into traps, so let's keep following that information and rushing into those traps, and let's kick out Buffy as well!
Caleb: We want Buffy and the Slayer line destroyed, we don't want her and her team to have this mystical weapon, so let's make sure they all know where it is, and send our bombs, ubervamps, etc. elsewhere! And when Buffy shows up, I'll make sure to show her precisely where it is while flailing like a drunkard!
I am 100% convinced The First wanted Buffy to not only find the Axe, but use it in exactly the way she did. Bringing slayer power to every potential was definitely a part of its plan to bring about the Apocalypse.
It started with him creepin' on Buffy when she clearly wasn't interested. Then he mostly just acted like a teenage boy/young man, which is reason enough. It's a compliment to the show though that they let him be as flawed as most young men that age, but he still came through when people's lives were on the line.
I don’t hate Xander and I kind of think he’s the male version of Rory Gilmore. It’s not that he’s more flawed than other characters, it’s that his flaws are more normal, and a lot of people either see people they know IRL or sometimes even the less flattering parts of themselves in him.
Think about it. It’s hard to see yourself in Faith or Spike or Angel because they’re much more extreme characters who are btw all murderers. Even Giles and Andrew are killers. I think Xander does exhibit growth but it is a subtler kind, where he has to just live in his imperfections and accept that he’s not just not a superhero he’s also ordinary in the moral sense. Again he’s like Rory on Gilmore Girls who never gets that moment or obvious speech of owning her flaws but she just settles in the way most people do, being a person with ordinary levels of virtue. I think people don’t like characters who never have that cathartic change or revelation because it feels like bad storytelling but it’s real. People are sometimes like that.
Cordelia was the real friend
10000000 percent. A real one in general
Ah yes, the nasty mean girl bully... what a pal.
@@maxsommers6843 Cordelia started out as a nasty mean girl bully in Season 1 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She did grow from being a nasty mean girl bully to someone whom not even vampires dared mess with in Season 2.
@@AdultThirdCultureKid1971 Cordelia was mean the entire time she was on BtVS. Even when she was in the Scooby Gang she continued to be rude and tactless to them (despite the number of times they'd literally saved her life), and after she and Xander broke up she reverted back to her old ways albeit in a *slightly* less nasty manner.
@@maxsommers6843didn't she also save them a couple of times even after that betrayal
Lol but he got an eyepatch, so that made him interesting!
There’s major reasons why I hate Xander Harris, him being a self righteous judgemental hypocrite. The problem I have with some of the Xander lovers who are Pro-Xander say that Xander is the heart of the group, how is he the heart of the group when he constantly judges Buffy’s decisions, lied to her in “Becoming Part 2” as well as verbally attacking her in “Dead Man’s Party” not to mention he slut shame Cordelia because of how she dress. Yes I know Cordelia bullied and insulted Xander but Xander slut shaming her was disgusting, in fact Cordelia was a better friend to Buffy than Xander ever was. There were some good things that he did such as buying Cordelia’s prom dress when she couldn’t herself and reviving Buffy in “Prophecy Girl” but it doesn’t excuse his misogyny.
Cordelia deserved it was Xander just supposed to ignore her constantly bullying of him like he deserved it for not being popular? She bullied Willow she bullied everyone who she thought was beneath her Cordelia was a terrible person. Xander had Angel almost kill him once with Dru saving him he stood off with Angel in the hospital watched Angel kill Jenny almost kill Willow seriously he had a broken arm because of Angel in "Becoming Part 2" I get your perfect and all but he had every right to want it over and Angel dead.
@@lance9249 Cordelia’s mean girl behavior is the reflection of the person that Buffy Summers was before Buffy became the slayer, Cordelia actually grew out of it and became a better person there’s a major difference between the person she was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the person she became in the spin off Angel. Xander insulted her by saying her outfit make her look like a hooker. Xander was a horrible friend and should be grateful Buffy is still friends with him because she could have pulled a Cordelia by insulting Xander for all the horrible things he did as well as judging her decisions.
you crazy xander never was a hypocrite
buffy let anglus kill for mouths sorry but everyone should be hateing buffy NOT xander
willlow slut shame cordy more then xander did
sorry but xander yelling at buffy becous she was getting people killed is 100 percent ok. she should have been yell at more
sorry xander judge buffy on shit that get peopel killed and shit that people shoudl hate her for,
buffy let anglus kill for mouths and xadner lie sorry but everyone should be hatting on buffy NOT xander
and cordya better freidn who xander buffy life like 20 time it was for sure nto cordy
Yes the heart thing never sat well with me.
I personally feel that they missed an opportunity for Xander to become a Watcher.
Andrew was in the show for 2 seasons and I felt that he had more of a story arch than Xander. He starts off as a villain and eventually becomes a Watcher of sorts when he returns in Angel season 5.
Xander had gained way more experience and knowledge of the supernatural than Andrew, yet, they chose to do nothing with him.
8:48 It was, There is an episode where he breaks into the base using his army knowledge,
Yeah but then in a later season when asked about his military memories he says that they're mostly gone.
@@GoeTeeks Huh, maybe it was fading slowly with him, who knows.
@@jeromelancashire3278 I mean, it was knowledge that was gained without any living memory or experience to back it up. If he wasn't using it or recalling it regularly, it wouldn't be much better than cramming for an exam the night before and forgetting it all the next week.
I’m gonna love this channel. Buffy analysis galore!!❤❤ I never hated Zander, but his possessiveness towards Buffy and the way he lashed out at her in so many situations got on my last nerve. He was way too good at being a petty twat. Not a good look bro! Also, using Willow as a free therapist to work out his feelings for Buffy (while conveniently ignoring her obvious crush on him) was garbage. I’ve been in Willow’s shoes; that’s not friendship, it’s torture! He needed a serious clue by four. I realize he was a teenage boy and that comes with a certain amount of obliviousness and selfish immaturity, but he claimed Willow was his BFF, he couldn’t have been completely unaware of her feelings for him.
xander was willow best freind and he tried her like a best freind yes he talk about his crush with buffy so that what freidn DO, if she does nto want that then it up to her to deal with it.
buffy talk to xander about her feeling for angle, there no difference,
Xander was amazingly judgmental for someone who absolutely doesn’t have his own shit together! And Xander never really took responsibility for what he did to Anya. He thought he could dump Anya at the altar and then just go back to dating like it never happened! Just an incredibly immature character.
xadner mistake vs buffy and wilow are FAR smaller
Right after he and Willow were caught, he was trying to shift blame and show Cordy that he was happy without her, even though he's the one who screwed them up.
that not true he tried to talk ot her she would not would not talk to him, then she walk up to him and insult him for mouths, and told ebarrsing story about him to his freinds.
His blind jealously and possessive tendencies really bothered me. Especially as I get older.
They did drop the ball on Xander’s growth. And they had baked in disfunction with his home life from early on they didn’t take advantage of.
I think, his sexual assault by Faith was never taken as seriously as it should have because there’s the stereotypes type of ‘what teenage boy doesn’t fantasize about an older woman taking charge’. That was a narrative hugely pushed in the 90’s. Same with the older guy trope. It was ‘romanticized’.
It's strange that people have come to this ideia that Xander was assaulted by Faith. He clearly had a crush on her as he would any other girl in his close circle of friends and when she asks him, he says point blank that he is "up" for it, so clearly that can be seen as consent. Also, during the point where we kind of see them through the tv screen, it doesnt seem at all intense (in a bad way) or even awkward. After the did is done, we also get the sense that Xander really thought it was a good experience, since he expected pillow talk to follow. Anyway, Faith is not an older woman trope either cause she is probably Buffy's age or at minimum 1-2 years older. Remember in season 7 when they mentioned slayers are called when they are very young? Since Kendra was killed midway through season 2 and Faith dropped right at the beginning of season 3, we can assume she was still in highschool too, and maybe dropped out because now she had a chance to do something cool and embrace a calling with less rules to abid by. I think Faith was a good choice to be Xander's first after Cordelia dumped him for being a fool.
All that being said, Faith most def sexually assaulted Buffy AND Riley in the episode Who Are You
And you are right about the older guy trope being romanticized in the 90s (I think that still happens today tbh)
The first time between Faith and Xander was indeed consensual. But after Faith told Giles that it was Buffy who was the "accidental murderer" Xander stopped by her place again to try and be a supportive friend. That's when she forced herself on him. If Angel hadn't showed up she might've killed him
Faith was two years younger than him at the time. She was 16, a minor, and he was 18, the adult.
@@davidmeadows5627 She was also a slayer, and therefore had the greater physical strength.
@@davidmeadows5627Faith wasn’t 16 at the time. She was 17/18 when we first met her.
For me, his telling Dawn what Spike did to Buffy is unforgivable. Yes, that episode has the yellow crayon scene, and had that scene with Dawn not happened, I’d easily put that as the best Xander scene. But since he told Dawn what Spike did to Buffy, and not in a “look, I know you like him, but just trust me on this, he’s dangerous” way, but in a casual, tactless and spiteful way, I am left to say how dare he, how fucking DARE he take away Buffy’s right to decide when or if she’d tell Dawn what happened. And THEN he says “is this blind spot a generic trait with Summers women,” so not only does he victim blame Buffy, he drags their dead mother into it?? Fuck. Xander. Harris.
Had he said "trust me he's dangerous" do you think that would have worked really Dawn had a great relationship with Spike a simple "trust me he's dangerous" would not have worked
If he had said, “trust me, he’s dangerous” and she kept pushing so he told her, then yes, I’d have accepted that. But again he said it in a casual tactless and spiteful way. It was Buffy’s right to decide as to whether or not she would tell Dawn, and Xander took that away from her. He had no right to do that.
spike tried to rape buffy HE was a huge danger his chip did not work on buffy it could have stop working at all for all they new and DAWN the key would it even work on her.
sorry BUFFY keeping that a secret is prue EVIL on buffy part she was puttting everone in FAR more danger
remember when xadner was a hynee and he attack buffy sHE told willow in giles, not telling them would have been WRONG, so it buffy keeping what happen to spike that EVIL on buffy part
xander was 100 percent right to tell dawn spike was a danger to everyone and if it chip did not wokr on buffy what if it did not work on dawn KEY girl buffy was selfish and EVIL keeping that a secret
dawn should have smack and said what if he rape ME becoeu you did not tell me so i coudl protect myself, but that buffy keeping secret putting othere in danger
Spike and Faith were my favourite characters on the show, of the Scooby Gang I liked Willow and Cordelia, hated what they did in later seasons of Angel with Cordy. I could see Willow having a supernatural spin-off today with Alyson Hannigan and real life husband Alexis Denisof as Wesley Wyndam-Price as the leads.
Also, after 25 years Willow could be at Dr. Strange and Scarlet Witch levels of magical abilities and Wesley would be a veteran demon slayer in his own right, it could have multiverses, time travel like Marvel and DC storylines, maybe cross over with Ash Williams of The Evil Dead. I'd watch it.
Another reason i dont like him is woth the who willow thing, willow always loved him, he couldnt care less, he always saw her as back up or rebound, he had so many chances to get with will but he didnt want her until oz wanted her, i know band candy had something to do with that but still, hes a low insecure little boy
the sick nice guy thinking, xander love willow just becoue he did not want to date her he did nothing wrong and just becouse his feeling got mess up and they kiss a few time does not make him a bad man.
i mean willow cheated to and you dont blame her
sorry but xander not wanting to date willow is fine and there nothing wrong there,
@az21bob666 read the comment again that's not the only reason, this video was not about willow, cause I do have my issues with her moving on so fast after tara, of course he loves her, like a sister he even said it, I could over look it, cause I don't blame oz for cheating on willow, but Xander makes stupid decisions and comments way too much
Yes Xander makes mistakes. But I feel his mistakes are far less then willow or Buffy. And he get bash for more them.
I'm in the camp of those that liked Xander well-enough back when I watched the show on air (30 years ago???) but really feel like you nailed all his character shortcomings. I will say that I never really liked him as much after the end of S2 and the beginning of S3, and his treatment of Anya (whom I loved) sealed the deal on my dislike of him.
Mhmm season 2 and seaon 3 Xander was rough. Very real but very rough
anya was 1000 year old xander 18
tell me if it was giles and dawn adn dawn treated giles like xander does anya would you be attacking Dawn.
people forget anya had the power in there realionship. she was FAR FAR FAR older and more powerfull
At the time Riley told Xander that Buffy didn't love him, Joice had not yet become ill. That conversation took place at the end of season 5 episode 3...Joice started to become unwell in episode 5 . Buffy did not yet have that to deal with at this point
Wow dude... I've watched this show a dozen times, easily my favorite show of all time, and of course I've considered the problems with Xander for a long time, and I obviously knew the facts of the situation, like I was aware of the numbers, but I had never once actually considered the implications of Anya vs Xander's ages in the same way that I have with, let's say, Buffy and Angel. Like, for some reason that never "clicked" in my brain, if you see what I mean. I think you just made me recognize an internal bias I didn't realize that I had that I'm going to have to do some thinking about.
Well done, and also, I am your 420th subscriber. Nice.
I don't know... While it's true that Anya was a vengeance demon for far longer than Angel was around, she had no real growth during that time. She just went around, find women who were hurt by men, and giving them the option to seek their revenge. She basically lived the last few weeks of her life over and over and over. She didn't really learn much in the ways of emotional or intellectual growth. On the other hand, she DID have one failed marriage from her previous life to bring experience into.
@@GoeTeeksSee, but that is exactly the point I'm making. All Angel did was go around and drink people's blood, he wasn't growing as a person or trying to advance his understanding of human relationships, so he was still pretty close to his "human" age of 17ish when he met Buffy, right? By your argument, every single person who ever becomes a vampire does nothing except relive their earlier life, but he was definitely closer to humanity than Anya was and yet we don't consider his relationship to be in any way "worse" than Anya and Xander, right? And the question is, why is that the case? My point was that they both have a similar gap between their understandings of reality and their partner, but we still think of them as different for some reason, and honestly you kind of demonstrated my point perfectly.
@@lorehammer40k4 Angellous did way more than drink peoples' blood and stuff. He read books, saw plays, watched wars. He actually became very cultured, in his own demonic way. And it is very wrong. Pretty much any relationship based on old immortal to young person is wrong, but as long as they LOOK the same age, no one bats an eye. Also, Liam was 26-27 when he was bitten and turned to Angellous, so even by the ages they look, he's much older than Buffy. However, Anya just hung out in a demon void until she found someone who desired revenge.
You're not wrong. But in the case of Anya, she's really only a little more emotionally mature than Xander when they start dating. It's not... appropriate, but it's not really taking as much advantage of him as it would appear to be. I mean, look at how much growing up she had to do while dating him.
@@GoeTeeks Of course Angelus was 1000x times more cultured than Liam was, but to suggest he somehow had so much less experienced with human relationships than Anya did that it somehow justifies him having a relationship with Buffy while Anya and Xander is somehow different just seems absurd to me. I was saying that I had never considered the different between Anya and Xander in the same way that I had with Buffy and Angel, even though the numbers are similar, like, if Buffy had left Angel at the altar I would have reacted very differently, but I never stopped to think about why, ya know? That was the point of my comment.
Also, can I just say, thanks for talking with me about Buffy, that is waaaay to rare these days, so thank you ;) I really do appreciate it.
@@GoeTeeks And just to be totally clear, I think Anya and Angel both had to grow in a similar way in order to make their relationships work as well as they even did considering their own experiences, the point was just about how I reacted to them back when it happened, if you see what I mean. I think they're both honestly very similar, its just strange that I never realized that until I watched this video, if you see what I mean
I watched Buffy live and it was great, then I was rewatching DVDS of Angel and it forced me to go back and rewatch Buffy episodes and it definitely hit different when you werent immersed in it. Maybe I need to check it out again. I will say the Season 8 comic book was great.
I really liked Xander at the time Buffy aired, but it fell off in season 6 when he left Anya. As an adult, I now borderline hate him. I certainly loathe what the show did with his character.
Xander was Joss Whedon's self-insert character (Joss said as much in interviews), which says so much about both Joss Whedon AND Xander. I think that's part of the reason why Xander's character was allowed to slide by with such little development.
I'm glad you brought up Xander not helping Buffy and Riley. People like to give the excuse that Xander didn't say anything to Buffy because he didn't want to interfere in their relationship, but A.) He's had no problem interfering in her relationships before B.) He didn't necessarily need to disclose what Riley said to him. Maybe just remind Buffy that she should make sure that her relationship remained a priority and to be communicative with Riley.
Exactly! When has Xander ever minded his business when it came to Buffy's love life? The Riley situation was an awfully convenient time to start lol. I agree that Joss identifying with Xander played a big part in the show not feeling he needed growth. Like Xander, look how Joss' perception has aged
I don’t hate Xander. I personally think he had some of the funniest one liners and heartfelt speeches of the show. The only time that I was furious with him was when he left Anya at the altar since he was the one who proposed and seemed to lead to the on the wedding in the first place. I can’t even watch that episode. It makes me so mad. Lol. I do agree that he didn’t have character growth, although I didn’t realize it until this video. I think I felt somewhat of a connection with him in the earlier seasons because I grew up in a poor and sometimes violent home, but that didn’t really go anywhere. Side note: I’m really glad I discovered this channel. It’s hard to find good Buffy content, which baffles me since there’s so much great material to analyze. Thanks for the great videos and keep them coming 😊
Man, I’d completely forgotten that he was even supposed to be in a “one who sees” role. Spike was so effective at it that Xander was completely overshadowed in my mind. I remember Buffy actually saying, “I can fool Giles, and I can fool my friends, but I can’t fool myself. Or Spike, for some reason.”It’s a really interesting thing to do with a character who isn’t a good person and can’t be trusted to have even his allies’ best interests in mind for so much of the story.
There’s no reason Xander couldn’t have grown to be very perceptive in a way that would suit his character. It would not have been the same as Spike, which sounds fascinating. I mourn the lost potential. But they really, really would have needed to put the work in when they do have this other guy wandering in and out with his dismaying tendency to hone in on the things people were hoping no one would notice.
Looking forward to more videos! Subbed today and promptly binged every video you’ve made!❤
your Deep dive for this is on point and I have notes! lol I believe that Zander's character arc was Supposed to be exactly what became of Riley's minus the relationship with Buffy. Zander really should have been officially recruited into the Initiative and become the leader that he saw Riley as. It should have been Zander that left and returned to assist like we saw Riley do. Riley's character feels like it was actually where the Story of Zander was headed. Before the network change and the 2 extra seasons were suddenly added after it was unofficially drop by the (WB) maybe that is what Changed...
I definitely agree that Riley feels very much like what Xander could've or should've been. I think that's why Xander identified with him so much. Riley is literally the trajectory Xander was on (s1-s3) but never go there.
I like it a tiny bit, he's funny, cute, and he has a lot of speeches.
So glad you brought up Empty Places, I just watched it the other day and it infuriated me as usual, but this helped haha
It's amazing how the episode gets more infuriating as the years go on. lol I started making vids about that episode two years ago on tik tok and it makes me even more mad today
I would love to have lived to see the timeline where Xander came out ad LGBT insted of Willow cause I think Joss Whedon said once that one of Buffy's friends was supposed to be LGBT and the story progressed in a way that made it easier for Willow to be that (with Seth Green leaving the show and all that), but it could have been either one
A person can't be a lesbian, and a gay man, and a bisexual, and transgender at the same time. Willow was L and only L. Lumping all of these people (who actually very much dislike each other) into a fictional alphabetical collective is just disingenuous. It is an attempt to create a unity where none exists.
@@davidmeadows5627 It’s just an umbrella term, it’s not that deep.
And are you sure? These days people would argue you could be all 4 of those at once 😂
But yeah, the rest is spot on, I’m gay and can’t stand the community. Mostly the gender stuff but yeah.
And as far as I’m concerned, Willow is bi.
@@tiamod I'm just really tired of lumping individuals into collective groups that really have nothing in common with one another, just for the sake of pushing a political agenda. The Ls and the Gs dislike each other, and none of the Ls the Gs or the Bs feel any connection to the Ts. So saying that someone came out as LGBT just tickles my funny bone because there is no individual in the world who is that.
@@davidmeadows5627 I’ve never noticed the Gs and Ls hating each other, but I do see LG’s not connecting with trans and the B’s just seem to be identifying as whatever the hell they can think of.
But yeah, I agree that LGBT isn’t really a community.
@@davidmeadows5627 And don't forget us asexuals that are also lumped into the LGBT community, but we're very much the red-headed stepchild of the group. Lol
Im not halfway way through but I've never thought about any of those points in the way you're presenting. Its very interesting. At the time I didn't have the awareness to notice the hostile inaction with Riley, I really thought Zander thought buffy didn't really love Riley.
I can't imagine ever hating Xander. The show wouldn't have been the same without him.
I have to say something about Empty Places. That's actually the least antagonistic he'd been towards her. Usually, he lays into her, but this time, all he said was two sentences and was completely subdued. Everyone else (minus Faith) said a lot worse.
I think my problem with Xander comes down to Brendon. Joss prefers comic actors who can do drama, since so much of his writing is centered on witty banter. Brendon is a decent comic actor, but not up to par with most of the rest of the cast for dramatic acting. I suspect if Eric Balfour (Jesse) and Brendon had switched roles, with Balfour portraying Xander throughout the series run, I'd like Xander a lot more.
Balfour has had pretty consistent work over the years, and I'm not sure he would have wanted to be "stuck" on Buffy so I don't know if it could have happened, but he has the acting chops to add depth to the role. Joss likes Brendon, but I suspect Balfour would have opened up his writing pallete for Xander and we would have seen a more complex and richer character.
Then again, I just may not see what Brendon brings to the table, and it's just a matter of taste in acting style.
Xander was pretty progressive as a teenage female friend in 97-99. But the thing is, other shows went farther with it very quickly and by 00, we had stuff like Smallville doing it way better and Xander just never grew past "progressive for 97". Every year that passes for the audience, ages his jokes a lot worse (comedy does age the fastest and he was the comic releif)
what are you talking about clark and ovler did worse stuff then xander
I’m so glad I found your channel! This was a really good analysis. I agree wholeheartedly.
Thank you! I'm glad you found my channel!
Realising Xander is Whedon's self insert, makes you understand alot about his character and the stories we've now heard about Whedon's attitude on set, especially towards SMG and fellow actresses.
he's a self insert Joss based character so no surprise he didn't age too well, considering...
The only thing I'll disagree on slightly is when he lost his eye. They should not have kicked her out, or completely turn on her. But, as SOON as he got out of hospital, as soon as he was welcomed home, she wanted him back out and fighting. Like christ girl give it a minute!
Then Buffy tell.Xander only spike has my back. Buffy did not want a friend she wanted a follower
I make the case that Xander is more of a hero then Buffy.
Any a was a 1000 years old Xander 21.
If anya was a 50 year old ex hit man. Would you still defend Xander
Xander was right far more then Buffy was.
A lot of fans forget about the first episode of "Welcome to the Hellmouth". Xander's best friend Jesse is killed by a vampire, it affects him on a life changing level. He hates vampires, they take away his best friend and he (in his eyes) loses the girl of his dreams to one. Buffy falling for a vampire instead of him had to hurt on a different level because it shows that she'd rather be with a dead man than Xander. I'm not saying it's healthy or right, but it's human. He has a very unhealthy home life with an alcoholic father(who probably cheats on his wife) and is probably not just mentally but physically abusive. So he didn't have the best example growing up on what a healthy relationship should be. He could have been Warren, but instead is grounded because he has good people around him and decides to fight the good fight, even if he is the zeppo and doesn't always get credit. Buffy's a slayer/warrior, Willow is a powerful witch, Giles is intelligent and wise, Xander is just human but does the right thing because it's the right thing to do.
There was supposed to be instead of Dawn in conversations with dead people, Xander being visited by Jesse, but they couldn't get the actor. It's the only episode you don't see Xander in. I really wished they could have had that story in that episode because I think it would have been a great closure or arch for Xander.
Xander is problematic at times, but still has a good heart. He's flawed but will still have his friend's backs no matter what. He will be there through their worsts just like they will be there for his. I agree, it can be hard to like him at times(mine being him telling buffy to kick angel's ass) but he's still a great character.
The Conversations with Dead People point would have elevated that episode even more into my favorites if not #1, which I think it already is. But Dawn's part always felt, off.
I do think we can find bitterness with Xander though. If you swap vampire with football player, friend killed by a player driving drunk, but Buffy dates another player. Then his assault by Faith, another slayer, probably, based on his character up to that point, reinforced some anger towards Buffy, that they use guys like him. You want a girl, she dates the guys you have generalized hate for (ignoring that vampires are inherit killers), and a girl just like her assaults you as your first intimate encounter.
My problem was always how he ralied against her every chance, interfered with her romantic life every chance. Made her life putting him in harms way, but being butthurt when left out. Willow didnt want to be left out, but cant remember her being resentful at Buffy when she got hurt.
I've done videos on tiktokabout Xander's undiscussed trauma from what happened with Jesse but the reality is it's not that fans forget it, it's never addressed. That's another example of the ways the show completely overlooked a moment to develop/add nuance to Xander's character.
I did always find it strange how Xander and Willow would frequently reference their childhood friendship and NEVER mention Jesse. Like was he really THAT close of a friend, or was a more recent addition?
I wish Darla had found him instead in S1. That's how much i hate him.
In becoming pt2 he withheld information from her as she was going into battle. If Willow's spell hadn't have worked the planet would have been sucked into help because buffy was about to behead Angel and then how would they have closed Acatha's mouth? Also why would Buffy believe Xander's message about Willow for all these years when she had been the one to re-ensoul Angel?
Dead Man's Party, Partying Gifts, Revelations! When he and Willow were cheating on their S/O and Xander caught Buffy with Angel and ran back to for another meeting where Buffy is humiliated. Buffy really is too nice, she gives xander more grace than he deserves. She lets him be her friend when he's not really one at all. I remember him telling that dream to Willow about how Angel would disappoint her eventually and he would swoop in to save her and she would cry? He really has a weird thing about punishing women ...
Maybe Xander Harris suffered as a character because Nicholas Brandon just wasn't a very good actor. Everyone else in the cast was more talented than him, he seemed to just be dialing it in as the wise cracking side-kick, what wasn't very charismatic. I say 🎶the wrong kid died 🎶when it comes to Xander and the best friend (they never talk about) Jesse. IDK if it was true at the time but Eric Balfour is a stronger actor then Nicholas. if the actors swapped perhaps they would have given a stronger actor more to work with, like all of Xander's family drama.
Xander and Anya was a very weird ship to me. It seemed forced that she would be drawn to the ex of her last charge. Very weird. the yellow cayon moment and him giving buffy mouth to mouth was very forced into the narrative to give Xander a win, for me.
I love the point that the wrong kid died. I didn't like Xander back in the day, as an adult I find him really painful to watch. He had one really good moment with Dawn about not being the special one, but that's it.
buffy let agnlus kill people for mouth then run away treated her freind like shit.
sorry people should be attacking buffy not xander
Don't hate him at all, neither does the wife.
Same. Xander did a lot of things over the years that I didn't like, but I didn't hate him for it. He was living a pretty horrifying life in Sunnyvale, probably too scared to even question why he didn't run for the hills much less work to try to improve himself. He coped most of the time by joking, changing the subject, and just acting without thinking. An average person probably would react the way he did in that show. He never got powers that stayed, wasn't part of any super organizations that backed him like Giles (Watchers Council) or Riley (military), or had anything to give him a sense of self worth. Oh, and his family life sucked. He was just this regular person surrounded by amazing people feeling less than them 24/7. He could be a jerk at times, but he was also likeable and he cared. He wanted to help, but that was a crazy place and a lot to ask of someone with no special resources. He was young, dumb, and scared, but also hopeful, well intentioned, and willing to try. I liked him.
I personally hate Xander because of how he treats angel and spike. I mean buffy just prefers Xander as a friend and he should be fine with that, but he couldn’t stand spike which I hate yes soulless spike was evil but when spike got his soul back he was on his redemption and he was back to the human man he was before turning but Xander still hated him even though he had a soul I just think the way Buffy chose vampires over him made it a reason to hate even if they were good later on in the show
go back and watch the show what did xadner say bad thing about spike when he had a soul never
@@az21bob666 true, but you can tell by his facial expressions and his problem having spike stay with him since he left the basement, plus him siding the the other scoobies about what to do with spike
Sorry but attacking him first face is just crazy
And when spike has the trigger Xander was the one that said trigger and it just his fault.
His best moments when on Halloween he became a military man and retained some of it, Buffy pointed out he has more field time than most, will put himself on the line and lost an eye in the battle, had a sexy date with Ashanti who was a demon and almost killed. Looking at his family he also like Faith came from a dysfunctional family as his father was a violent and sloppy drink. That character arc was not explored. His character is a foil the writers used to his detriment.
Xander dies have a strong core for heroic cure brought out in desperation and fear for those he loves. His intellectual acumen was baseline in many areas except in wit. This character has a wry and sardonic wit that was eclipsed by his self deprecating psyche. It would have been a testament to character development to imbue him with empathy which he then channeled into a primal awareness for beings as demonstrated in his relationship with Anya. Anya was my favorite secondary character and the actress Beas able to illicit depth and the fragility of humanity. Anya had the greatest capacity for pragmatic intelligence and a long archival access to the observed nature of beings.
Zander showed his colors by basically threatening Buffy at the end of season 2 when Angelus was after Willow
You mean the first episode of season 2 when Buffy was acting like an immature brat and almost got everyone killed?
you mean first ep of season 2 when buffy was beign a bitch and almost got willow killed yea xadner was right.
We judge him as fully grown adults with worldly experiences and decent parental foundations for morality/ethics, but there isn't anybody out there that wasn't mostly an asshole through their teens into the early twenties. Also, we see much of this from Buffy's POV; she has very few positive realationships with men and Xander lacked any education on how to better himself. He expected to die back in s2
Xender symbolizes Buffy's feelings "the heart". He cannot develop further because he symbolizes all feelings and these are stupid. The fear, the anger, the insecurity, the jealousy. These feelings are always the same. They do not grow with you. They are always there. When Riley said that Buffy does not love him, Xender could not say anything. He is Buffy's feelings, she knew it/felt it but she did not want to admit it. In her heart she already knew it, but her heart was not allowed to say it.
I kinda got the impression that part of the reason Xander did not respond in that particular scene, was because he was probably caught off guard by Riley confiding in him about something so personal. Up to that point I think Xander viewed Riley as a friend, all around decent guy, and ally to the Scoobies. He might've even looked up to him somewhat, as a big brother type, but I'm not sure he was quite prepared to have a conversation with him about deep feelings.
(At least not until after they'd helped save the world together a couple more times.)
If he is her heart, why is he the least empathic of them all? He is only nice to dawn and as it turned out in the comics, he was grooming her.
What?!
@@BCBaronI think a bit of both work. Men not deep in feelings not prepared for it. Because all either guy's flaws, they are sensitive. Riley maybe more in the "what do you need" way and Xander "hey, thats hurtful" way. But also crushing his idea that Buffy could at least be into a guy he really sees qualities in and not revile. I mean theres a level of envy that is respect. Xander could respect Buffy dating Riley that he couldnt anyone else. Whether his humanity, physique, or down to earth kindness. But not so removed from himself either.
People get real weird around people they like while even they are dating someone else. No one benefits unless oblivious. So I can even see the terribleness towards Anya from the start, because while pretty, into him, they had sex, she wasnt what he would have chosen.
@@LiilliithhI know. Couldnt believe when I heard about that. 🤢
I watched Buffy when it first aired, so I never really got into the fanbase or knew that other fans hate Xander. Okay. I always liked him. He was a pretty average guy from the 1990s. I probably should rewatch the show and see what the kids these days are objecting to. Enjoyed your video! Always nice to see young people talking about shows I loved in my younger years. :)
I've been watching BTVS consistently since the first day it aired and I have to say it ages amazingly well as far as commentary on life goes. I support you rewatching. You'll be happy you did!
6:31 He mostly made jokes about it to alleviate the situation, and I quote, "Party in my eye socket and everyone's invited, Sometimes I should not say words," What are you talking about?
Everyone has so many good points! I don’t even have to write a comment 😂 but I will “allegedly” say Xander was suppose to be a surrogate for Mr. Joss whedon himself, so that’s gross and makes sense why Xander did some of the bad shit he shouldn’t have
Edit: So glad I ran into this channel! Definitely subbing!
I feel Xander is really just indicative of the whole show by the end. Practically every character has done some seriously sh*tty things by season 7 and is damaged beyond belief. It's one of the reasons why I don't like the UPN years and believe the show should've ended after season 5. The Gift wraps up everything. Buffy has literally defeated a god (how are you going to top that?), she's made the supreme sacrifice and the slayer cycle continues. It was the right denouement for the show. Except network execs with dollar signs in their eyes just couldn't leave well enough alone.
If you showed the kids of season 1 what they'd become in 5 to 6 years, they'd have been horrified. Willow is arrogant and an addict who's given a massive hit of her drug of choice at the end (I don't believe for a minute that making the girl who abused magic the most powerful magic wielder in the world would end well). Buffy is an emotionally deadened and broken person, going through the motions. Xander has borderline incel tendencies and never seems to learn any important life lessons. At the end of the day Xander is just an early symptom of the rot that infected and eventually killed the show for me. Which is a shame, because I wanted to like him. I'm usually on the side of the somewhat geeky everyman character, but every time I started to vibe with Xander he pulled some immature crap that had me wincing. You could come up with reasons for why he's so screwed up if you're feeling imaginative, like maybe the hyena never completely left him, or the soldier's memories messed him up somehow (especially if any of those memories included tours of duty in some quagmire like Vietnam). I've done this myself writing what-if fanfiction. But the sad fact is you don't need any of that to explain him. He's simply a product of his upbringing - the son of abusive alcoholics - and often struggles (and fails) to escape the confines of that mindset.
Y'know, I'm reminded of the very end scene of 'I Robot You Jane' where the three of them contemplate the prospect of never having a happy life. Gotta say, they called it.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. The show always struggled with character arcs. But the 5th season would have at least ended all of the storylines off on a high note. But the last 2 seasons destroyed any charm or character development any of the characters had.
No. Buffy's death in the end would defeat the show's premise. She was supposed to LIVE. NOT DIE young like all the other slayers did. Season 5 ending as the final series ending would've ruined the show forever. They could've done all the rest much better but any ending were Buffy ends alive and with a future is always better because it does her justice.
@@virz4432 No. You just WANT her alive because you like the character. Buffy didn't die from a vampire attack in season 5. She willingly sacrificed herself for her sister, Dawn. That's the perfect way to end the series. Because her entire personality throughout the show was her being forced to risk her life on a daily basis. By the end, she's grown so much that she's the one choosing to sacrifice her life for the greater good.
Maybe it's just me, but that's scary I lived so much about season 6.
It is bleak and depressing. Everyone's screwed up and traumatized and had problems.
But that felt real to me.
Maybe it's coz I also grew up in abuse and have had to worth through my own trauma, but that's solace in seeing characters that are a broken as you and struggling as much as you.
Season 6 is one of my faves for that reason.
Thankfully though, instead of going the faith route, I put in a ton of work to heal and move past everything.
But it's not like you forget. So I kind of like seeing characters that mirror the struggles I had.
What pisses me of about Xander though is that he never grew at all. It's exactly like you said, he never escaped his upbringing.
Even faith has her arc of atonement on angel. But Xander? He learns no lessons, never works on himself, and never grows.
xander show Zero incell tendencies
Also... why don't we ever talk about Xander's attempted SA in "The Pack" (It doesn't make it okay because Buffy is stronger). Sure he was possessed with a demon but it's a fact that he can look past in himself but not in others. Also, he admits he remembers it to Giles but he keeps it a secret. If you listen to JW's commentary he is always talking about the importance of "consequences" for actions .... Xander rarely see's consequences. Definitely a Joss POV.
let talk about buffy trieding to kill all of her freind how about buffy mom trieing to burn buffy at the stake.
no ok then stop blaming xander
xander does not blame angel for anglus he just does nto like angel and has NO reason to
Xander was the only just human.. Still he stepped up time and time again.. And, he liked the quiet.
Xander represents joss. It’s wild how much I don’t enjoy his scenes since losing love for joss as a person
I’ve found my new favourite channel 🤩
We love to hear it! Buckle up, we have a lot of fantasy discourse to get through lol
A thing with Xander that always bugged me (not related, but I'll say it here) is that I'm convinced that rather than lose an eye, he should have died. Would have raised the stakes, would have made The First a legit threat, would have made Buffy being kicked out of her house make sense. I think that he didn't have anything more to offer, it would have been shocking, and it was towards the end, meaning characters can be axed without issue, as there isn't any reason to keep them around.
5:11 I think it was to fire her up so she could stop Riley from leaving, and she was going to but it was too late.
It is strange that it needs any explanation, after all his debased actions and after he doesn’t repent or apologize at all. His trying to rape Buffy - yes, he was possessed, but after he was himself again he absolutely had to confess that he remembers it all. And don't even start me on "he simply was so young" or "he had such a bad family". He doesn't look like a victim of home abuse at all, he is himself tyrannical and considers himself entitled to boss everyone around. Him daring to shame Anya for having sex with someone after he (!) betrayed her... it can't get more abhorrent than that. He is not just "flawed", he is a criminal. In real life, he should and would be put in prison for his actions in "Entropy", because, objectively, such dudes who out of jealousy insult the ex-girlfriend and try to kill the guy she slept with are those most dangerous for women. Such “nice guys” absolutely shouldn’t be allowed to walk on the streets. And after that, how could Buffy and other girls not throw him out of their company immediately? Like, seriously, would any girl with self-esteem tolerate such xanders in their life? But the series suggests exactly that, teaching girls to have no self-esteem, which is extremely humiliating for women. When will the xanders of this world face the consequences of their actions, finally? The vampires are much more decent than him, because they, at least, have a genuine remorse.
Xander slept with Faith. He didn't want to. Willow was heartbroken when she found out.
I think Xander's character was, as other people suggested, an avatar for Joss, which ended up boxing him into his toxic patterns because Joss was (we now know) boxed in with his toxic patterns. I also think he kind of got Frank Burns-ed (MASH). He was always the character who made the awkward nerdy jokes, and needed saving because he lacked social awareness and... like... basic foresight. If he grew, they wouldn't be able to use him in that function any more. I'm really speculating here, but the one area where Xander did develop where the other characters didn't was the trappings of adulthood. By season 7 he was the only one of them that even had a driver's license as far as we can tell. He and Anya are the only ones that have their own apartments... ever... in the entire show (maybe Tara did for a hot second while she was on the outs with Willow, but we don't really know). He's the only one that went out and found himself a career. Anya has the magic shop, which was haded to her by Giles, and Buffy briefly has the counselor job, but only because Robin was positioning her where he could keep an eye on her (she was really bad at that job). He goes from selling corndogs and ice cream in season 4 to supervising a construction job site in season 6, which seems like a meteoric sort of progress. This isn't a defense of Xander. He manages all of this stuff off camera. It's not really growth. But I wonder if Joss, who seems to see value in his professional successes, but not much in developing healthy, respectful, professional relationships with all of his actors and crew, might not see that as character growth enough.
For some reason I thought the title of this video was implying that I must have some sort of bias or hang up to hate Xander.
I was putting off watching this because I thought 'no way! Xander's a self righteous, judgemental, selfish a-hole!'
Now I watch this video and discover that we agree. I should have watched this sooner.
Ah! A video about Joss' self-insert character!
Xander is among other things, impulsive, annoying, unstable, needy, sometimes very cruel and snakey, insecure, self pitying.. he seems like an all or nothing, quick tempered jack of some trades.. when really someone of the scooby gang should be above such shortcomings, or get over the flaws fairly quickly because the group is full of old souls who could snap him out of it and show him better ways.
He seems somewhat arrested in development, awkward, doesn't read rooms well, shows he might have adhd and even mild autism- and in that sense, i think he and Anya were an inevitable match.
How is he unstable? Did he ever get violent with a human being? He just has a lot of pain.
@@davidmeadows5627 yeah, he did. he tried to beat up angel, spike.. let his mouth run wild saying hurtful crap to buffy, screwed everything with Anya, punched a wall, got himself almost killed by Faith and sacrificed by a demon to open the hellmouth.
@@tomcross3000 I said human beings. Angel and Spike are vampires. They don't count. You're seriously blaming him for being the victim of Faith's evil? Or for getting kidnapped by a demon? Wow! Talk about victim blaming!
@@davidmeadows5627 Well.. yes! because he swaggered into those situations looking to wet his wick and wasn't careful like any other member of the scooby gang is! that is why he's an idiot. And angel and spike have souls, so yes they do count.
@@tomcross3000okay first of all, when he tried to hurt Spike Spike did not have a soul. he had a chip inhibiting him from doing evil things. he wanted to do those evil things. he was just as evil as any other vampire. he just had something blocking him from doing so. Xander never actually hurt Spike even once after he actually had a soul. has Rachel. he never actually trusted him? yes, a lot of it was him being jealous, but there's also the fact that he has seen vampires kill his best friend. you remember that where his best friend died on the stake he had there. he has a reason to not trust them. what with Angel being the only supposedly good one and then after he was the only supposedly good one he turned evil and did all the horrible stuff there. I'm not saying that his intentions were absolutely pure, but he did have a good reason not to trust Angel several in fact. as for saying he was sauntering into an area. just wanting to get his wick wet. That sounds an awful lot. like the male version of saying well. just look how he was dressed. he was begging for it.
Ways to improve Xander arc:
-I felt that Xander could have been seen wanting to be useful to the group so he sought out Giles to train him in combat.
-Xander could have trained to be a watcher.
-Oz could have bitten him to become a werewolf.
-Since Xander was turned into different things he should have had some hidden traits he retained.
He had the memories a soldier for a while they took that back later though I forget the line, but it happened sadly.
Idk, I never hated Zander. To me, he's just a dude who never really figured out where he fitted in, which happens.
I agree so much about what you’re saying about Xander. I was really hoping for more growth in season 4 and like they dropped the ball with his character there. I would have loved for him to become more sure of himself and to legit stop attacking Buffy so much or to even deal with why he keeps doing it. It was such a missed opportunity
Such a good breakdown!
Thank you!
Whedon said Xander was him in high school, and it looks like he very mistakenly left out of development.
Yeah, and it's really weird they didn't address the rape episode.
If the show got rebooted/continued today, Xander is one of the things that would need to be updated. Either they need to confront his personality (along with a few other characters) and have the flaws get addresed. Or I could see them making him gay like was the coin flip option and making Willow straight.
Sorry, I just don't see it for the Xander hate. I was very much Xander in high school myself, and watching him I could relate to homie. Even cheating on Cordy and even leaving Anya was him just giving him to his fear and insecurities. I stand with Xander!
Xander is a product of the times. By today's standards he absolutely would be considered a version of a 'nice guy' and all the negative connotations that implies.
He didn't develop a lot because they needed certain characteristics of his personality for the cast dynamics but at least he didn't get completely Flanderized.
(Joey from Friends got so dumbed down I began wondering how he got his shoes on without hurting himself 🙄)
Great insight in this video ⭐
The closest Xander got to self actualizing was the double episode, where his "strong" half went out to get the job while the "wimpy" half held onto all of Xander's anxiety and weakness. Almost sad that they came back together. That being said, I never hated Xander, but every rewatch he gets more cringe.
I really liked Xander in the beginning, but as the show progressed more and more I really couldn't stand him anymore. I felt the same way about almost all the characters in the show. I watched the show in 2023, so I don't have any nostalgic feelings.
In the end, I only liked Spike and Willow.
Don't even get me started on Buffy's sister. (I've just forgotten her name)
I always thought Xander was a good character never hated him with not telling her about angel I mean she had to do what she had to do I feel telling her would’ve made it harder
the writers have stated buffy would have died if he told her about the curse. but telling the part about willow is what made buffy feel so alone she ran away. if she thought willow was on her side about angel still, she would have gone to her house.
Love him or hate him he came through for the scoobies time and again without question
That still don’t mean he didn’t have hella issues 😂
@@whatlee8671 definitely agree there I think I clarified further down I agree with most of what's said here except the part about everyone saving the day in the show so that not being special. He seems to have been out in to show you don't need to be special to step up but that only works once or twice before it runs thin without extra development. Especially when the person not being developed has the worst parts of being a fourteen year old boy for a personality
Whedon always said that he modeled Xander after himself... I wonder if that's why there wasn't much growth while Whedon was with the show. Since he was more consumed with Angel during Buffy's final two seasons, I feel the writers, tried to do a little bit by making Xander more mature with the construction job and with his 'mature guy' talks with Dawn and Willow.
"Whedon always said that he modeled Xander after himself.." and Whedon hates himself.
Xander had growth. Compare season 1 Xander to season 7. He matured a lot. He grew up like the rest of them did. He was a lot more responsible. I think the confusion lies with the type of character he is. He's the one who makes the jokes. And some of the jokes are immature. And I think that might fool you into forgetting that he did mature, it's just that he's still trying to be funny. He's a lot like Chandler from Friends. He had several mature moments of self reflection. One in particular, which I think is forgotten because of the horrific thing that happens immediately afterward, is his conversation with Buffy in the backyard in "Seeing Red" where they talk about their friendship, etc, and Buffy apologizes for not telling him about Spike, but then he admits she probably didn't because he'd be an ass about it.
Zander was Pet-TEA.
I love Xander and I disagree with most of your points. Xander did grow. By the age of 21 yrs old, he had found a career that he enjoyed and excelled at, he was in a committed relationship longer than anyone else on the show and he was a support system for his friends. Also, he had a right to grieve for the loss of his eye and barely played a role when everyone turned on Buffy. His contribution was basically, “I think your judgement is off and my lack of eye is my evidence.”
NOW, let’s talk about the real problem with Xander. He had huge misogynist tendencies, like feeling a sense of entitlement to Buffy, cheating on Cordelia, and telling Anya that he felt sick looking at her because she slept with someone after they broke up.
One last point that I don’t hear people talk about, Giles. Of all of the scoobies, Xander’s the one that needed a father figure the most and Giles rejected him over and over and over again. If Buffy or Willow made a mistake Giles would be there to comfort them and hold their hand through it all. Xander only ever got an eye roll from Giles. Giles couldn’t even bring himself to hug Xander goodbye when he left for England!
These are some fair points, especially the last paragraph with how Giles rejected him. I feel like that part is unfortunately a downside of 90s culture with machismo culture, it was in full force back then and emotion between men was frowned upon (but slightly getting better).
Xander isn't perfect and there's no denying his misogynist tendecies like you pointed out (made worse when you learned about the truth about Joss Whedon and Xander was supposed to represent him...) but despite the mistakes, Xander still came through when the time really called for it.
if you want to blame xander for cheating then do the same for wilow and
and yes spike a mass murder and rapesit anyone that sleep with that i woudl look at like there dogshit and that fine. l
While I will never deny his flaws, nor his almost complete lack of any development/growth. I actually love Xander, I wish they had done him better, but as someone who gave but couldn't follow excellent advice to my friends.... don't get me wrong sometimes we can get toxic, but we do see very clearly (than blatantly refuse to see our own scenarios...)
And loved this video cause I've never understood the Xander hate... granted I was in my teens early twenties when I was watching the show on DVD, so.....
I liked your video, I never analyzed Xander. You did bring really good points.
That being said, people in real live mature out of adolescence at different pace. One could argue that it is nice that the original trio are the at the same maturity level.