I think Xander had potential, BUT, the fact that Joss Whedon has come out and said that he modeled Xander after himself... well, I guess we know why he never had Xander take accountability for anything.
Tbh I feel like the reason he didn’t have any growth was because the writers didn’t think he needed to. Which is telling, especially with Whedon at the helm
Xander was Joss Whedon that is why everytime Xander was enabled by his fans, Joss was enabled to do what he did. There was no need for character growth because, Xander was allowed to get away with everything..... he was never brought to task for what he did to Anya, he never was brought to task over his lying about Willow wanting to kick Angels ass, Xander was ''The Trio''...... which is why it took so long to see them as the threat that they were. it is why so many people hate season 6...... season 6's reaction says more about the person, than it does the season.
The hyena episode, he did a lot of things in that episode that he himself found disgusting and wrong (bullying, attempted r*pe, attempted cannibalism, to name a few) and at the end of the episode who pretended to have memory loss rather than address anything he did. That always rubbed me the wrong way. But it’s like you said, most of my issues came from how quick he was to tear Buffy down or attack her when she was at a point.
Let's not forget he caused a bunch of human combustion in once more with feeling and blackmailed Amy to spell Cordelia almost causing her death. He also owes Joyce the door Drusilla threw down. Honestly, Xander has killed more people than Faith, why is she the bad one?
he never treated angel and anglus as the same person he HATE anglus does not like angel BUT he has no reason to like angle, i mean angle almost feed him to spike had to be force tosave buffy 200 year old going after a 16 year old girl angel has NOT one sence were he nice to xander,
Let's be glad Buffy was stop from going with Xander when he was put under the spell of the hyena. Buffy would have lead the Hyena people. She already had enhanced strength so maybe she would have been even stronger.
Yeah, I always felt so many of Xander's underhanded digs at Buffy were because she turned him down. Which is honestly just really yucky. He's my least favorite charecter. And you brought up a great point of no accountability. Showing my husband this show, that was his main complaint. There is never any real accountability for Xander or Willow. It's kind of always just brushed under the rug.
@@stevemyopinion423umm Buffy is ONE person Just like Superman, she can’t save everyone Willow, Xander or the others would have the SAME weight on their shoulders..
Faith Sexually Assaulting Xander would have been a great narrative to explore how men can be victims and how it affects them in a world that just brushes it off.
I agree though this show pretty much ignores all sexual assault besides Warren. Willow erases Tara memories then scissors her without Tara being able to give consent because her memories were erased which is sexual assault.
Realy should habe been him.having PTSD. I mean he kill his best friend. His second mom was killed. And like what 20 army friends were killed. And a drug problem. He did not start.
@@lance9249 I don't think Warren considered it sexual assault since he was using magic but once she said it's rape it felt more real and even his friends looked disgusted.
It hit me with the episode where he BLACKMAILS Amy to cast a spell on Cordy for revenge. Then he lies to Cordy about why, and they end up back together.
"Willow said kick his ass" - I was so relieved when they revealed that in latter seasons but it was never resolved, they went over it so fast, and then I was mad again.
@@lance9249 She would have done the same regardless of Xander. She always did what she had to. He could have not said anything but he chose to lie or he could have said kick his ass without adding "Willow said" but he was a coward
buffy does not do what she has to she let anglus run around for mouths kill what 10 50 people more every day she let anglus live she was betraling her freind, her caling and all the innocent people in sunydale. people should be bashing buffy but they go well xadner lied
buffy let anglus run around killing for mouths there should be a million post about how buffy evil and selfish and how she let all those people die but no there xander lied post
He cheated with Willow, they both guilty. And honestly Xander feel more guilty than Willow. He left Anya, because of demon manipulation - and it's Anya fault. She's made that poor dude demon, and he want revenge. He uses Xander and his inside fears. It's not the reasons for hate...
@@TodaysDante The show never did a good job of explaining Xander to the audience. He lived in a dysfunctional household his family we see on the wedding episode being terrible we get one small scene on Christmas where he sleeps outside to avoid his family's conflict the guy suffered trauma. It's no surprise he does things like joking in serious situations to deescalate tension or is horrible at relationships it's all he ever seen and the guy was 17 and 20 when both these events happened, he's still trying to figure out life and has not overcome abuse.
The only thing i ever hated about Xander it's his hypocritical relationships with Buffy's supernatural romances. I mean, Buffy isn't let to date vampires but you are let to date vengeance demon?
Former. Anya was completely human when Xander dated her while Angel was an undead demon who murdered a person they loved or tortured tried to kill them.
@@lance9249 not Angel. Angelus. It's different personalities and even then Angel constantly shows huge remorse for what his evil alter-ego did. Anya on the other hand wasn't showing any remorse until season 7. It's even more hypocritical when Xander say that he won't forgive Spike cause he "exterminate half of Europe" in his past while I'm pretty sure Anya killed much more people.
Agreed. There are many here who'd be like "oh, Anya was human, Spike soulless", which is also the biggest hypocrisy. For Anya being human meant only that she had lost her powers. She is the same personality who murdered, tortured and mutilated countless humans, enjoyed it, shows zero remorse when she is without her powers and recounts her demon's deeds with laugh (and Xander hears all those stories and doesn't pity her victims in the slightest). She is not any different from Spike with a chip, who also completely loses his powers for a while, but not his former vampire personality. And, unlike Spike, Anya has a soul which should tell her she should repent, or at least feel bad about the people she wronged. But no, quite to the contrary, so her having a soul makes her all the more guilty.
I think you nailed this, tbh. Yes, all of them are deeply flawed characters, but most of them got to confront those flaws at some point during the series and learn from it. It’s hard to hate someone who recognises their mistakes and tries to make up for them. Xander never really had those moments, and so you come away with the idea that he was being given tacit permission to be a jackass. He ended the show believing that he was justified in all the horrible things he did, because he was never shown a mirror and made to look at his true reflection.
Spot on... I feel in many ways he was kind of a mirror to the audience as well... I was a Late Teenager when I first saw Buffy, And I saw a LOT of Xander in me... But now at 51, I have grown... I have changed and I am better than that now, Not perfect, I still fall back into Xander at times... But Overall I am Wiser than I once was! In a world of Fantasy, He is just a bit too Realistic... He displays flaws most of us have and we watch TV and Movies to escape that reality! We wanted to see Xander GROW and Become BETTER... To give us hope we could be better! But he NEVER GROWS!
You're so right about Xander reveling in Buffy's low points. It's a really ugly part of the show that's hard to unsee once you've seen it. Buffy never deserved his long-simmering resentment.
I dislike him greatly. Even if I enjoyed his humor and felt him the only ''normal'' one of the bunch, hence the most relatable. His hatred for Angel puts me off despite me not loving Angel all that much. He never got over the fact Buffy rejected him, so he had to hate any boyfriend she had. Riley he liked because they were so alike. It felt like Xander loved Riley more than Buffy ever did. Then there's leaving Anya at the altar. That is disgusting, no matter how you look at it. And before that, there's him ruining Willow's relationship with Oz. I found that worse than his cheating on Cordelia. Willow had been after him for so long and he knew it! He only noticed her when she found someone else. That said, I love how he was there for Buffy despite not having to. Most people would leave such a dangerous friend behind. And I love his scene with Dark Willow, I cannot hate him, but I'm happy buffy and Willow dodged THAT bullet. I really wish he was held accountable for the bullshit he did, like most other characters.
Yeah, Cordilla only steps in when things are at the absolute lowest. Once squarring off against a vampire. This time against Xander. If Cordialla has to step up defend someone, you know you screwed up
The first time I watched through the show I had no problem with Xander, I was young and emotionally immature, It could also be that I am ND and at the time didn't understand social interactions as well as I do now. But as I grew up and became more mature and emotionally mature I started to see how much of a walking red flag Xander was and oh boy is that an understatement. These days, I feel Xander only really had two scenes where he was genuinely, and momentarily a good character. 1 is of course, the yellow crayon speech. The other is one I don't see people talk about much but I feel it's underrated, maybe it's emotional impact didn't hit others the way it hit me. When Xander gives dawn the speech about her being extraordinary when she found out she wasn't a potential, Oooof. Other than those two moments. Xander is pretty much a manchild who never took the time to grow up emotionally and realize how his actions affect those around him.
What does nd mean? Also, how did he have red flags? He was a great friend to everyone in his group, which is why they kept him around for seven years. Sure he had flaws, but who doesn't?
If you really believe that. You less mature as a adult then you were as.a.child. Xander again Buffy when she doing something that get other people kill like not killing anglus and runmig. Away. Or could get her killed like sleeping with spike a mass murder that his chip don't work on her People over look how dangerous that is. And hideing it was putting ever else km danger.
Xander felt like he had this superiority complex and entitlement to the woman on the show. Like you said, there was never any balance for him. I think the thing that made his character worse for me was that the show would reward his horrible behavior to his friends, i.e., making his bad hot takes correct or not punishing him in the same way others would get punished.
@@stevemyopinion423There's an entire episode that unfortunately proves you wrong. The one where he tries to put a love spell on Cordelia. He could have let it go, but he tried to manipulate her mind. I know I know, he was acting out bc he was hurt, but still.
Well he did not do the spell. But I agree 100 percent wrong. But he did not ask for the spell to get her back. Just to break up with her. Like she did him But if you hold the same standard Buffy and willow were the same way.
I hated Xander until he decided he was going to marry Anya. I thought their relationship was one of the only good things happening in season six and that they were having some cold feet but theyd get over it. Then he leaves her at the alter even after it was explained that it was someone with a vendetta trying to break them up with lies. Now its back to being the worst again. This man is constantly negative and frames it as being protective but its just controlling at heart. He's digusting
it not contorling at all, if it there a chacne it get someone killed then it ok to judge people for it. i spike was a mass murder and rapist sleeping with him was very dangerous taht why xander had a problem with it, buffy sleeping with parker xander had no problem see the difference
@@stevemyopinion423 but like spike had a chip and it was very much felt like he was shaming her and anya for sleeping with spike. he wasn't at all concerned for their safety's just disgusted that they'd sleep with spike.
i think part of was safty but it was becouse spike a evil soul monster he even said you let that SOULESS THING touch you. people like spike but he is a mass murder and rapist i would look at anyone that sleep with him as there carzy, and the real life eq of spike would be someone like jeffery domoer
@@stevemyopinion423 As he was talking though it didn't sound like he was shaming spike, more like he was shaming Anya and Buffy because they slept with a 'souless evil thing' and Xander for some reason felt some entitlement towards these woman who he a. left at the alter and b. knew wasn't interested in him.
I wouldn't say I hate Xander but especially in the early seasons he can be pretty unlikeable. And I totally agree that it's a shame that so many things weren't addressed when it comes to Xander. I'm so annoyed everytime I watch season 7 because they just sort of gloss over the fact that Xander lied to Buffy regarding Angel. Willow just says something like "I never said that!" and that's it. Buffy seems to not even recognise what Willow says. I would have expected Willow and especially Buffy getting furious with Xander.
Buffy does address it later when she brings up the kick his butt line. But she doesn't press, which shows that she may hate that he did it. But she can understand why he did and can see why it was nescesary for the world. The writers have stated Buffy would have lost if she thought Angel had any chance of coming back, since she would have held back. So Xander's lie did save the world in the writer's mind and was nescesary. That's why they didn't take Xander to task over it. They didn't see it as bad. And we know at least two of the writers are pretty gross people, so it's really making sense why all the characters worst traits never get brought up properly in show. Willow should have gotten mad at him though. Because even if Xander had a reasonable thought proccess behind not telling buffy about the second attempt. He should not have put willows words into the kicking his butt thing. That's the really horrible part and is the reason Buffy ran away. If he didn't say that part, Buffy would have stayed with Willow over the summer/gone on a summer roadtrip with her and Oz or something. Or at least been in contact with Willow with Willow keeping it secret.
@@razycrandomgirl Marti. The entire spike/buffy storyline was her, with the bathroom scene even something she proudly proclaimed to have done to an ex boyfriend.
@kyleellis1825 I thought joss pushed for the bathroom scene. I remember reading that he wanted spike to do something so egregious because he didn’t like all of the fans liking spike so much and he wanted to remind them he’s an awful vampire
@@lindseystein9676I thought you meant Steven DeKnight, the writer who called Jenna Ortega toxic for having input into her character on Wednesday. Idk how Marti was in the Buffy writers room but on Mad Men she helped fight against sexual harassment in the writers room.
From what I understand, Xander was Joss Whedon's self-insert, and that would explain a lot, especially with discoveries made since then about Joss and how he treats people, especially women.
Xander was amazingly judgmental for someone who absolutely doesn’t have his own shit together! And Xander never really took responsibility for what he did to Anya. He thought he could dump Anya at the altar and then just go back to dating like it never happened! Just an incredibly immature character.
Right after he and Willow were caught, he was trying to shift blame and show Cordy that he was happy without her, even though he's the one who screwed them up.
that not true he tried to talk ot her she would not would not talk to him, then she walk up to him and insult him for mouths, and told ebarrsing story about him to his freinds.
@@stevemyopinion423 He was at the Bronze her first night back complaining. She, as the wronged party, didn’t owe him a conversation. She made it clear in the hospital that she wanted him to leave her alone. Him calling her and trying to talk to her after that was all about him. Like Willow with Oz, Xander wanted to talk so that he could feel better and that was not Cordy’s problem. In case you forgot, before Cordelia and Xander were in a relationship, all they did was insult each other. The only difference was that Xander had actually done something to earn her enmity. Cordelia didn’t let people get close to her, but she let Xander in, only to have him hurt and betray her. She also let herself care about Buffy, Willow, and Giles to a degree, and she lost that too.
And Xander did leave her alone. We watch the sence. She walk up to him and insult him over and over again for what weeks mouths. Even telling his embarrassing secrets to the group And people blame him. Xander was wrong to cheat. But she was a bitch after to him.
I did a tik tok about this awhile ago. Maybe I'll make a vid over here about it. I think Xander is Joss' insert before he'd gained success/power and Warren represents Joss after he gained power, the ability to act out on feelings of entitlement and abuse that power.
I liked his character ok enough in season 1 but I couldn't forgive he or Willow after cheating on Oz. I still liked the show a lot: especially for Spike and Anya, but who could cheat on Oz? He's the best!!
All the characters did messed up stuff. But I don’t think the writers were ever fully aware of how messed up some of the things Xander said/did were. A lot of things just got swept under the rug and never really investigated. I think that it partly due to the time. Xander was the classic “nice guy”. He had female friends. He was (mostly) loyal to them. He wasn’t a cheater (outside of those few episodes in season 3). He wasn’t an obvious macho, aggressive jackass. He was supposed to be a nerd. So, I feel the writers likely viewed his hypocrisy and judgmental tendencies and possessiveness as not that harmful because he was an overall “nice guy.” They never really felt the need to confront that stuff in meaningful ways. I also just don’t think the writers were as invested in him as they were Buffy and Willow. Nicholas has talked about Joss telling him that they had planned on killing off Xander at the end of season 3. But Nicholas asked to continue. They kept Xander alive but warned him that he wouldn’t be getting as much attention as Buffy and Willow. Hell, you can almost tell that the writers weren’t that invested in Xander by them immediately putting him with Anya in season 4 and her quickly becoming the funnier and most interesting character of the two. They lost interest in him. He never really got an arc or a storyline post season 3, just an episode every ten installments or so that focused on him. And therefore a lot of things that should have been addressed or fleshed out never really was with him. In conclusion, the combo of “nice guy” syndrome and the writers losing interest in him is why a lot of Xander things don’t play as well today and he seems to have no real arc.
@@lifelikelisa It’s also apparent that the writers didn’t see that as big of a betrayal as it actually was. And kinda made Cordy a bitter ex. I also was thinking more about his post high school years and his relationship with Anya.
Your video popped up as a recommended video. I'm glad it did. You made a great video with very detailed points. It's been years since I was "in" the Buffy universe, but you still pulled me into it with your conversational tone and backed it up with so many details and receipts. Great vid! Thanks!
Another reason i dont like him is woth the who willow thing, willow always loved him, he couldnt care less, he always saw her as back up or rebound, he had so many chances to get with will but he didnt want her until oz wanted her, i know band candy had something to do with that but still, hes a low insecure little boy
the sick nice guy thinking, xander love willow just becoue he did not want to date her he did nothing wrong and just becouse his feeling got mess up and they kiss a few time does not make him a bad man. i mean willow cheated to and you dont blame her sorry but xander not wanting to date willow is fine and there nothing wrong there,
@az21bob666 read the comment again that's not the only reason, this video was not about willow, cause I do have my issues with her moving on so fast after tara, of course he loves her, like a sister he even said it, I could over look it, cause I don't blame oz for cheating on willow, but Xander makes stupid decisions and comments way too much
There seemed to be a certain block of Season Seven where everyone seems to have broken their brains and lost their minds: Buffy: The First wants us all dead, likes to feed us information to lead us into traps, so let's keep following that information and rushing into those traps! Everyone else in the Scooby Gang: The First wants us all dead, likes to feed us information to lead us into traps, so let's keep following that information and rushing into those traps, and let's kick out Buffy as well! Caleb: We want Buffy and the Slayer line destroyed, we don't want her and her team to have this mystical weapon, so let's make sure they all know where it is, and send our bombs, ubervamps, etc. elsewhere! And when Buffy shows up, I'll make sure to show her precisely where it is while flailing like a drunkard!
I am 100% convinced The First wanted Buffy to not only find the Axe, but use it in exactly the way she did. Bringing slayer power to every potential was definitely a part of its plan to bring about the Apocalypse.
His blind jealously and possessive tendencies really bothered me. Especially as I get older. They did drop the ball on Xander’s growth. And they had baked in disfunction with his home life from early on they didn’t take advantage of. I think, his sexual assault by Faith was never taken as seriously as it should have because there’s the stereotypes type of ‘what teenage boy doesn’t fantasize about an older woman taking charge’. That was a narrative hugely pushed in the 90’s. Same with the older guy trope. It was ‘romanticized’.
It's strange that people have come to this ideia that Xander was assaulted by Faith. He clearly had a crush on her as he would any other girl in his close circle of friends and when she asks him, he says point blank that he is "up" for it, so clearly that can be seen as consent. Also, during the point where we kind of see them through the tv screen, it doesnt seem at all intense (in a bad way) or even awkward. After the did is done, we also get the sense that Xander really thought it was a good experience, since he expected pillow talk to follow. Anyway, Faith is not an older woman trope either cause she is probably Buffy's age or at minimum 1-2 years older. Remember in season 7 when they mentioned slayers are called when they are very young? Since Kendra was killed midway through season 2 and Faith dropped right at the beginning of season 3, we can assume she was still in highschool too, and maybe dropped out because now she had a chance to do something cool and embrace a calling with less rules to abid by. I think Faith was a good choice to be Xander's first after Cordelia dumped him for being a fool. All that being said, Faith most def sexually assaulted Buffy AND Riley in the episode Who Are You And you are right about the older guy trope being romanticized in the 90s (I think that still happens today tbh)
The first time between Faith and Xander was indeed consensual. But after Faith told Giles that it was Buffy who was the "accidental murderer" Xander stopped by her place again to try and be a supportive friend. That's when she forced herself on him. If Angel hadn't showed up she might've killed him
For me, his telling Dawn what Spike did to Buffy is unforgivable. Yes, that episode has the yellow crayon scene, and had that scene with Dawn not happened, I’d easily put that as the best Xander scene. But since he told Dawn what Spike did to Buffy, and not in a “look, I know you like him, but just trust me on this, he’s dangerous” way, but in a casual, tactless and spiteful way, I am left to say how dare he, how fucking DARE he take away Buffy’s right to decide when or if she’d tell Dawn what happened. And THEN he says “is this blind spot a generic trait with Summers women,” so not only does he victim blame Buffy, he drags their dead mother into it?? Fuck. Xander. Harris.
Had he said "trust me he's dangerous" do you think that would have worked really Dawn had a great relationship with Spike a simple "trust me he's dangerous" would not have worked
If he had said, “trust me, he’s dangerous” and she kept pushing so he told her, then yes, I’d have accepted that. But again he said it in a casual tactless and spiteful way. It was Buffy’s right to decide as to whether or not she would tell Dawn, and Xander took that away from her. He had no right to do that.
spike tried to rape buffy HE was a huge danger his chip did not work on buffy it could have stop working at all for all they new and DAWN the key would it even work on her. sorry BUFFY keeping that a secret is prue EVIL on buffy part she was puttting everone in FAR more danger remember when xadner was a hynee and he attack buffy sHE told willow in giles, not telling them would have been WRONG, so it buffy keeping what happen to spike that EVIL on buffy part
xander was 100 percent right to tell dawn spike was a danger to everyone and if it chip did not wokr on buffy what if it did not work on dawn KEY girl buffy was selfish and EVIL keeping that a secret dawn should have smack and said what if he rape ME becoeu you did not tell me so i coudl protect myself, but that buffy keeping secret putting othere in danger
@@WaywardAce420 Not only that Spike was a huge comfort and safety for Dawn. She had lost so much, was often forgotten about and Spike was there for her. To tell her about what happened without Buffy’s consent is wrong. I’m not excusing Spikes behaviour either but the nuances of their relationship were part of that. The lines were blurred.
Xander Harris is Ash. No particular talents, skills or powers. Constantly tries to weasel out of confrontation. But when t e chips are down, he comes through like a boss. Consider The Zeppo. Xander is a cowardly weasel through most of the episode. Until he realizes that the bullies who have tormented him for years are now zombies. And zombies are something he's dealt with before. So he goes Boss Mode and takes them down until his final confrontation with Jack over the bomb where he's utterly fearless. But when he's with the rest of the gang, he's Shaggy, the ineffectual doofus.
A thing with Xander that always bugged me (not related, but I'll say it here) is that I'm convinced that rather than lose an eye, he should have died. Would have raised the stakes, would have made The First a legit threat, would have made Buffy being kicked out of her house make sense. I think that he didn't have anything more to offer, it would have been shocking, and it was towards the end, meaning characters can be axed without issue, as there isn't any reason to keep them around.
It started with him creepin' on Buffy when she clearly wasn't interested. Then he mostly just acted like a teenage boy/young man, which is reason enough. It's a compliment to the show though that they let him be as flawed as most young men that age, but he still came through when people's lives were on the line.
I personally hate Xander because of how he treats angel and spike. I mean buffy just prefers Xander as a friend and he should be fine with that, but he couldn’t stand spike which I hate yes soulless spike was evil but when spike got his soul back he was on his redemption and he was back to the human man he was before turning but Xander still hated him even though he had a soul I just think the way Buffy chose vampires over him made it a reason to hate even if they were good later on in the show
@@stevemyopinion423 true, but you can tell by his facial expressions and his problem having spike stay with him since he left the basement, plus him siding the the other scoobies about what to do with spike
For me it's the sense of entitlement which drove forth a lot of his actions, the repeated cheating on Cordelia, leaving Anya at the altar which highlighted that he is at his core a coward who can be easily swayed - all he does is react to how poorly his parents behave around each other, he doesn't bother to think "no, I can do better"; rallying gang-ups on Buffy, the overall lack of growth or change, and what really doesn't help the perception of his character is the fact Whedon identifies with Xander specifically.
There’s major reasons why I hate Xander Harris, him being a self righteous judgemental hypocrite. The problem I have with some of the Xander lovers who are Pro-Xander say that Xander is the heart of the group, how is he the heart of the group when he constantly judges Buffy’s decisions, lied to her in “Becoming Part 2” as well as verbally attacking her in “Dead Man’s Party” not to mention he slut shame Cordelia because of how she dress. Yes I know Cordelia bullied and insulted Xander but Xander slut shaming her was disgusting, in fact Cordelia was a better friend to Buffy than Xander ever was. There were some good things that he did such as buying Cordelia’s prom dress when she couldn’t herself and reviving Buffy in “Prophecy Girl” but it doesn’t excuse his misogyny.
Cordelia deserved it was Xander just supposed to ignore her constantly bullying of him like he deserved it for not being popular? She bullied Willow she bullied everyone who she thought was beneath her Cordelia was a terrible person. Xander had Angel almost kill him once with Dru saving him he stood off with Angel in the hospital watched Angel kill Jenny almost kill Willow seriously he had a broken arm because of Angel in "Becoming Part 2" I get your perfect and all but he had every right to want it over and Angel dead.
@@lance9249 Cordelia’s mean girl behavior is the reflection of the person that Buffy Summers was before Buffy became the slayer, Cordelia actually grew out of it and became a better person there’s a major difference between the person she was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the person she became in the spin off Angel. Xander insulted her by saying her outfit make her look like a hooker. Xander was a horrible friend and should be grateful Buffy is still friends with him because she could have pulled a Cordelia by insulting Xander for all the horrible things he did as well as judging her decisions.
you crazy xander never was a hypocrite buffy let anglus kill for mouths sorry but everyone should be hateing buffy NOT xander willlow slut shame cordy more then xander did sorry but xander yelling at buffy becous she was getting people killed is 100 percent ok. she should have been yell at more
sorry xander judge buffy on shit that get peopel killed and shit that people shoudl hate her for, buffy let anglus kill for mouths and xadner lie sorry but everyone should be hatting on buffy NOT xander and cordya better freidn who xander buffy life like 20 time it was for sure nto cordy
Man, I’d completely forgotten that he was even supposed to be in a “one who sees” role. Spike was so effective at it that Xander was completely overshadowed in my mind. I remember Buffy actually saying, “I can fool Giles, and I can fool my friends, but I can’t fool myself. Or Spike, for some reason.”It’s a really interesting thing to do with a character who isn’t a good person and can’t be trusted to have even his allies’ best interests in mind for so much of the story. There’s no reason Xander couldn’t have grown to be very perceptive in a way that would suit his character. It would not have been the same as Spike, which sounds fascinating. I mourn the lost potential. But they really, really would have needed to put the work in when they do have this other guy wandering in and out with his dismaying tendency to hone in on the things people were hoping no one would notice.
I really liked Xander at the time Buffy aired, but it fell off in season 6 when he left Anya. As an adult, I now borderline hate him. I certainly loathe what the show did with his character. Xander was Joss Whedon's self-insert character (Joss said as much in interviews), which says so much about both Joss Whedon AND Xander. I think that's part of the reason why Xander's character was allowed to slide by with such little development. I'm glad you brought up Xander not helping Buffy and Riley. People like to give the excuse that Xander didn't say anything to Buffy because he didn't want to interfere in their relationship, but A.) He's had no problem interfering in her relationships before B.) He didn't necessarily need to disclose what Riley said to him. Maybe just remind Buffy that she should make sure that her relationship remained a priority and to be communicative with Riley.
Exactly! When has Xander ever minded his business when it came to Buffy's love life? The Riley situation was an awfully convenient time to start lol. I agree that Joss identifying with Xander played a big part in the show not feeling he needed growth. Like Xander, look how Joss' perception has aged
I agree so much about what you’re saying about Xander. I was really hoping for more growth in season 4 and like they dropped the ball with his character there. I would have loved for him to become more sure of himself and to legit stop attacking Buffy so much or to even deal with why he keeps doing it. It was such a missed opportunity
@@maxsommers6843 Cordelia started out as a nasty mean girl bully in Season 1 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She did grow from being a nasty mean girl bully to someone whom not even vampires dared mess with in Season 2.
@@AdultThirdCultureKid1971 Cordelia was mean the entire time she was on BtVS. Even when she was in the Scooby Gang she continued to be rude and tactless to them (despite the number of times they'd literally saved her life), and after she and Xander broke up she reverted back to her old ways albeit in a *slightly* less nasty manner.
I’m gonna love this channel. Buffy analysis galore!!❤❤ I never hated Zander, but his possessiveness towards Buffy and the way he lashed out at her in so many situations got on my last nerve. He was way too good at being a petty twat. Not a good look bro! Also, using Willow as a free therapist to work out his feelings for Buffy (while conveniently ignoring her obvious crush on him) was garbage. I’ve been in Willow’s shoes; that’s not friendship, it’s torture! He needed a serious clue by four. I realize he was a teenage boy and that comes with a certain amount of obliviousness and selfish immaturity, but he claimed Willow was his BFF, he couldn’t have been completely unaware of her feelings for him.
xander was willow best freind and he tried her like a best freind yes he talk about his crush with buffy so that what freidn DO, if she does nto want that then it up to her to deal with it. buffy talk to xander about her feeling for angle, there no difference,
The fact that he fought alongside spike (lets be real he stood behind spike while spike fought) all summer then when buffy came back from the dead xander not only didn't tell him but was an ass about it too.
If the show got rebooted/continued today, Xander is one of the things that would need to be updated. Either they need to confront his personality (along with a few other characters) and have the flaws get addresed. Or I could see them making him gay like was the coin flip option and making Willow straight.
@@jeromelancashire3278 I mean, it was knowledge that was gained without any living memory or experience to back it up. If he wasn't using it or recalling it regularly, it wouldn't be much better than cramming for an exam the night before and forgetting it all the next week.
Wow dude... I've watched this show a dozen times, easily my favorite show of all time, and of course I've considered the problems with Xander for a long time, and I obviously knew the facts of the situation, like I was aware of the numbers, but I had never once actually considered the implications of Anya vs Xander's ages in the same way that I have with, let's say, Buffy and Angel. Like, for some reason that never "clicked" in my brain, if you see what I mean. I think you just made me recognize an internal bias I didn't realize that I had that I'm going to have to do some thinking about. Well done, and also, I am your 420th subscriber. Nice.
I don't know... While it's true that Anya was a vengeance demon for far longer than Angel was around, she had no real growth during that time. She just went around, find women who were hurt by men, and giving them the option to seek their revenge. She basically lived the last few weeks of her life over and over and over. She didn't really learn much in the ways of emotional or intellectual growth. On the other hand, she DID have one failed marriage from her previous life to bring experience into.
@@GoeTeeksSee, but that is exactly the point I'm making. All Angel did was go around and drink people's blood, he wasn't growing as a person or trying to advance his understanding of human relationships, so he was still pretty close to his "human" age of 17ish when he met Buffy, right? By your argument, every single person who ever becomes a vampire does nothing except relive their earlier life, but he was definitely closer to humanity than Anya was and yet we don't consider his relationship to be in any way "worse" than Anya and Xander, right? And the question is, why is that the case? My point was that they both have a similar gap between their understandings of reality and their partner, but we still think of them as different for some reason, and honestly you kind of demonstrated my point perfectly.
@@lorehammer40k4 Angellous did way more than drink peoples' blood and stuff. He read books, saw plays, watched wars. He actually became very cultured, in his own demonic way. And it is very wrong. Pretty much any relationship based on old immortal to young person is wrong, but as long as they LOOK the same age, no one bats an eye. Also, Liam was 26-27 when he was bitten and turned to Angellous, so even by the ages they look, he's much older than Buffy. However, Anya just hung out in a demon void until she found someone who desired revenge. You're not wrong. But in the case of Anya, she's really only a little more emotionally mature than Xander when they start dating. It's not... appropriate, but it's not really taking as much advantage of him as it would appear to be. I mean, look at how much growing up she had to do while dating him.
@@GoeTeeks Of course Angelus was 1000x times more cultured than Liam was, but to suggest he somehow had so much less experienced with human relationships than Anya did that it somehow justifies him having a relationship with Buffy while Anya and Xander is somehow different just seems absurd to me. I was saying that I had never considered the different between Anya and Xander in the same way that I had with Buffy and Angel, even though the numbers are similar, like, if Buffy had left Angel at the altar I would have reacted very differently, but I never stopped to think about why, ya know? That was the point of my comment. Also, can I just say, thanks for talking with me about Buffy, that is waaaay to rare these days, so thank you ;) I really do appreciate it.
@@GoeTeeks And just to be totally clear, I think Anya and Angel both had to grow in a similar way in order to make their relationships work as well as they even did considering their own experiences, the point was just about how I reacted to them back when it happened, if you see what I mean. I think they're both honestly very similar, its just strange that I never realized that until I watched this video, if you see what I mean
In becoming pt2 he withheld information from her as she was going into battle. If Willow's spell hadn't have worked the planet would have been sucked into help because buffy was about to behead Angel and then how would they have closed Acatha's mouth? Also why would Buffy believe Xander's message about Willow for all these years when she had been the one to re-ensoul Angel? Dead Man's Party, Partying Gifts, Revelations! When he and Willow were cheating on their S/O and Xander caught Buffy with Angel and ran back to for another meeting where Buffy is humiliated. Buffy really is too nice, she gives xander more grace than he deserves. She lets him be her friend when he's not really one at all. I remember him telling that dream to Willow about how Angel would disappoint her eventually and he would swoop in to save her and she would cry? He really has a weird thing about punishing women ... Maybe Xander Harris suffered as a character because Nicholas Brandon just wasn't a very good actor. Everyone else in the cast was more talented than him, he seemed to just be dialing it in as the wise cracking side-kick, what wasn't very charismatic. I say 🎶the wrong kid died 🎶when it comes to Xander and the best friend (they never talk about) Jesse. IDK if it was true at the time but Eric Balfour is a stronger actor then Nicholas. if the actors swapped perhaps they would have given a stronger actor more to work with, like all of Xander's family drama. Xander and Anya was a very weird ship to me. It seemed forced that she would be drawn to the ex of her last charge. Very weird. the yellow cayon moment and him giving buffy mouth to mouth was very forced into the narrative to give Xander a win, for me.
I love the point that the wrong kid died. I didn't like Xander back in the day, as an adult I find him really painful to watch. He had one really good moment with Dawn about not being the special one, but that's it.
Xander is a product of the times. By today's standards he absolutely would be considered a version of a 'nice guy' and all the negative connotations that implies. He didn't develop a lot because they needed certain characteristics of his personality for the cast dynamics but at least he didn't get completely Flanderized. (Joey from Friends got so dumbed down I began wondering how he got his shoes on without hurting himself 🙄) Great insight in this video ⭐
Spike and Faith were my favourite characters on the show, of the Scooby Gang I liked Willow and Cordelia, hated what they did in later seasons of Angel with Cordy. I could see Willow having a supernatural spin-off today with Alyson Hannigan and real life husband Alexis Denisof as Wesley Wyndam-Price as the leads.
Also, after 25 years Willow could be at Dr. Strange and Scarlet Witch levels of magical abilities and Wesley would be a veteran demon slayer in his own right, it could have multiverses, time travel like Marvel and DC storylines, maybe cross over with Ash Williams of The Evil Dead. I'd watch it.
I don’t hate Xander and I kind of think he’s the male version of Rory Gilmore. It’s not that he’s more flawed than other characters, it’s that his flaws are more normal, and a lot of people either see people they know IRL or sometimes even the less flattering parts of themselves in him. Think about it. It’s hard to see yourself in Faith or Spike or Angel because they’re much more extreme characters who are btw all murderers. Even Giles and Andrew are killers. I think Xander does exhibit growth but it is a subtler kind, where he has to just live in his imperfections and accept that he’s not just not a superhero he’s also ordinary in the moral sense. Again he’s like Rory on Gilmore Girls who never gets that moment or obvious speech of owning her flaws but she just settles in the way most people do, being a person with ordinary levels of virtue. I think people don’t like characters who never have that cathartic change or revelation because it feels like bad storytelling but it’s real. People are sometimes like that.
I've always been a Xander-fan, but I have to acknowledge that my reasoning comes from a place of toxicity. I found him to be realistically relatable for those of us who have unrequited feelings for a friend, and are sincerely trying our hardest to not be an ass about it, but are simply too immature and ego-hurt to successfully pull it off.
I often dont like Xander. He has an unearned self righteousness when it comes to Buffy and her relationships. He often treated anya as less than. One thing i will point out though after raising two kids is he was always there to help with Dawn. Hed babysit, pick her up for school, give rides, and fix Buffys house millions of times. He never compained, refused, or asked for compensation. He jumped into any fight he was needed for until that stupid fracture in season 7. I guess hes like a butthole brother who always shows up when called.
I did not hate the Xander Harris character. However, his constant dumb jokes and sarcastic comments got on my nerves. I always wanted Buffy, the scooby gang, and Rupert Giles to tell him to cut it out. I remember a scene during which Giles had enough of Xander's comments and snapped at him, but quickly apologized. I thought, "don't apologize, Xander deserved it."
At the time Riley told Xander that Buffy didn't love him, Joice had not yet become ill. That conversation took place at the end of season 5 episode 3...Joice started to become unwell in episode 5 . Buffy did not yet have that to deal with at this point
I'm in the camp of those that liked Xander well-enough back when I watched the show on air (30 years ago???) but really feel like you nailed all his character shortcomings. I will say that I never really liked him as much after the end of S2 and the beginning of S3, and his treatment of Anya (whom I loved) sealed the deal on my dislike of him.
anya was 1000 year old xander 18 tell me if it was giles and dawn adn dawn treated giles like xander does anya would you be attacking Dawn. people forget anya had the power in there realionship. she was FAR FAR FAR older and more powerfull
Realising Xander is Whedon's self insert, makes you understand alot about his character and the stories we've now heard about Whedon's attitude on set, especially towards SMG and fellow actresses.
It's amazing how the episode gets more infuriating as the years go on. lol I started making vids about that episode two years ago on tik tok and it makes me even more mad today
I can't stand Xander (nor Riley). Xander is always trying to control, take something from, hide something from or get something from Buffy that he knows he shouldn't.
@@stevemyopinion423 Xander was a butthurt sad little man.He was in his feelings because Buffy didn't want to be with him.He obviously never heard the phrase There Are Other Fish In The Sea
The only thing I'll disagree on slightly is when he lost his eye. They should not have kicked her out, or completely turn on her. But, as SOON as he got out of hospital, as soon as he was welcomed home, she wanted him back out and fighting. Like christ girl give it a minute!
Then Buffy tell.Xander only spike has my back. Buffy did not want a friend she wanted a follower I make the case that Xander is more of a hero then Buffy. Any a was a 1000 years old Xander 21. If anya was a 50 year old ex hit man. Would you still defend Xander Xander was right far more then Buffy was.
Everyone has so many good points! I don’t even have to write a comment 😂 but I will “allegedly” say Xander was suppose to be a surrogate for Mr. Joss whedon himself, so that’s gross and makes sense why Xander did some of the bad shit he shouldn’t have Edit: So glad I ran into this channel! Definitely subbing!
He left Anya at the altar and then had the AUDACITY to be angry with Anya when she hooked up with Spike. Then, when he found out Buffy hooked up with Spike, he got mad at HER because....??? How DARE she not sleep with HIM first?!?! Smh...
Xander could have been like Sokka from Avatar. Starts out insufferable but learns. But he never ever learns and often is nasty to Buffy whenever Buffy is having a hard time. Willow enables him. I liked Willow- but then slowly, she became insufferable. Especially after she pulls Buffy out of heaven. She didn't even get her body out of the damn grave. Xander was just so gross around Dawn. Especially since he later DATES DAWN in the comics. Riley was insecure and projected his crap on Buffy. Dude saw his girlfriend get bit by freaking Dracula and got jealous. Angel was creepy and I didn't like him COMPLETELY because he was stalking a 15 year old girl and then getting with her. It was just icky especially since, physically he's not even a teenager- like at least Edward was physically and mentally 17. Angel was 26 when he got turned. It's just so gross. Spike, weirdly, was the most empathetic to Buffy's pain. Everyone else tried to make it all about them, while Spike actually tried to understand her, and understood her, and he's not getting with her while she's a child. (I loathe THAT episode). I honestly enjoyed his character development.
At first, I found Xander the bland, generic nice guy, then as a jilted guy-pal in the friend zone, to a hypocritical, petulant man-child. I don't know what the writers were thinking but they really screwed up with him.
These are some good points. I can't remember all of the incidences you mention (it's been a while since I've seen the whole show), but I do remember feeling at times disappointed that they didn't go further exploring this character's issues. I don't know if that's the main problem people have with him, however. I think the real issue is that he ISN'T a hero--and that is why we may dislike him. Unlike Buffy, Willow, the vampires, etc. who begin ordinary, he begins and stays ordinary, never developing special powers, and resenting those who do, feeling inferior to them. In that way he does represent the audience, and in particular the unpopular teenage boy, who reads about exciting things but doesn't get to do them. ("Why am I everybody's butt monkey?") I think that is his role on the show, as "the fool"--part comic relief, part flawed character. I think he is one of the funniest characters, and the actor has naturally great comic timing. Not that he isn't heroic, but his heroism is that fact that he knows he has no special powers yet fights to help his friends regardless ("Just a frightened guy with a rock.") Do I wish the other characters and the show held more accountable? Yes. In a way, however, maybe he is held accountable by never being allowed to rise above the level of "ordinary putz."
I feel Xander is really just indicative of the whole show by the end. Practically every character has done some seriously sh*tty things by season 7 and is damaged beyond belief. It's one of the reasons why I don't like the UPN years and believe the show should've ended after season 5. The Gift wraps up everything. Buffy has literally defeated a god (how are you going to top that?), she's made the supreme sacrifice and the slayer cycle continues. It was the right denouement for the show. Except network execs with dollar signs in their eyes just couldn't leave well enough alone. If you showed the kids of season 1 what they'd become in 5 to 6 years, they'd have been horrified. Willow is arrogant and an addict who's given a massive hit of her drug of choice at the end (I don't believe for a minute that making the girl who abused magic the most powerful magic wielder in the world would end well). Buffy is an emotionally deadened and broken person, going through the motions. Xander has borderline incel tendencies and never seems to learn any important life lessons. At the end of the day Xander is just an early symptom of the rot that infected and eventually killed the show for me. Which is a shame, because I wanted to like him. I'm usually on the side of the somewhat geeky everyman character, but every time I started to vibe with Xander he pulled some immature crap that had me wincing. You could come up with reasons for why he's so screwed up if you're feeling imaginative, like maybe the hyena never completely left him, or the soldier's memories messed him up somehow (especially if any of those memories included tours of duty in some quagmire like Vietnam). I've done this myself writing what-if fanfiction. But the sad fact is you don't need any of that to explain him. He's simply a product of his upbringing - the son of abusive alcoholics - and often struggles (and fails) to escape the confines of that mindset. Y'know, I'm reminded of the very end scene of 'I Robot You Jane' where the three of them contemplate the prospect of never having a happy life. Gotta say, they called it.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. The show always struggled with character arcs. But the 5th season would have at least ended all of the storylines off on a high note. But the last 2 seasons destroyed any charm or character development any of the characters had.
No. Buffy's death in the end would defeat the show's premise. She was supposed to LIVE. NOT DIE young like all the other slayers did. Season 5 ending as the final series ending would've ruined the show forever. They could've done all the rest much better but any ending were Buffy ends alive and with a future is always better because it does her justice.
@@virz4432 No. You just WANT her alive because you like the character. Buffy didn't die from a vampire attack in season 5. She willingly sacrificed herself for her sister, Dawn. That's the perfect way to end the series. Because her entire personality throughout the show was her being forced to risk her life on a daily basis. By the end, she's grown so much that she's the one choosing to sacrifice her life for the greater good.
Maybe it's just me, but that's scary I lived so much about season 6. It is bleak and depressing. Everyone's screwed up and traumatized and had problems. But that felt real to me. Maybe it's coz I also grew up in abuse and have had to worth through my own trauma, but that's solace in seeing characters that are a broken as you and struggling as much as you. Season 6 is one of my faves for that reason. Thankfully though, instead of going the faith route, I put in a ton of work to heal and move past everything. But it's not like you forget. So I kind of like seeing characters that mirror the struggles I had. What pisses me of about Xander though is that he never grew at all. It's exactly like you said, he never escaped his upbringing. Even faith has her arc of atonement on angel. But Xander? He learns no lessons, never works on himself, and never grows.
Xender symbolizes Buffy's feelings "the heart". He cannot develop further because he symbolizes all feelings and these are stupid. The fear, the anger, the insecurity, the jealousy. These feelings are always the same. They do not grow with you. They are always there. When Riley said that Buffy does not love him, Xender could not say anything. He is Buffy's feelings, she knew it/felt it but she did not want to admit it. In her heart she already knew it, but her heart was not allowed to say it.
I kinda got the impression that part of the reason Xander did not respond in that particular scene, was because he was probably caught off guard by Riley confiding in him about something so personal. Up to that point I think Xander viewed Riley as a friend, all around decent guy, and ally to the Scoobies. He might've even looked up to him somewhat, as a big brother type, but I'm not sure he was quite prepared to have a conversation with him about deep feelings. (At least not until after they'd helped save the world together a couple more times.)
@@BCBaronI think a bit of both work. Men not deep in feelings not prepared for it. Because all either guy's flaws, they are sensitive. Riley maybe more in the "what do you need" way and Xander "hey, thats hurtful" way. But also crushing his idea that Buffy could at least be into a guy he really sees qualities in and not revile. I mean theres a level of envy that is respect. Xander could respect Buffy dating Riley that he couldnt anyone else. Whether his humanity, physique, or down to earth kindness. But not so removed from himself either. People get real weird around people they like while even they are dating someone else. No one benefits unless oblivious. So I can even see the terribleness towards Anya from the start, because while pretty, into him, they had sex, she wasnt what he would have chosen.
Also... why don't we ever talk about Xander's attempted SA in "The Pack" (It doesn't make it okay because Buffy is stronger). Sure he was possessed with a demon but it's a fact that he can look past in himself but not in others. Also, he admits he remembers it to Giles but he keeps it a secret. If you listen to JW's commentary he is always talking about the importance of "consequences" for actions .... Xander rarely see's consequences. Definitely a Joss POV.
let talk about buffy trieding to kill all of her freind how about buffy mom trieing to burn buffy at the stake. no ok then stop blaming xander xander does not blame angel for anglus he just does nto like angel and has NO reason to
she was over a 1000 year old, you NEVER say that about a guy if giles was dating buffy at 16 you never say well he old but NOt emotionally intelligent so it ok.
@az21bob666 Buffy was dating a hundred year old guy at 16, But that is not the point. the point is Anya was confused lost in a world she didn't understand after years of conditioning to believe one way when Xander found her.
@az21bob666 A 1000 year old vengeance demon who after her husband cheated on her sort revenge when she met D'Hoffryn who taught her that human men were scum before giving her the powers to seek revenge on all men throughout countless centuries until she made a mistake and our favourite Watcher made her lose her powers and D'Hoffryn rejected her now seeing her as a worthless mortal, now lost in the world that she hardly knew she had no one until she met Xander, a mortal man who was nice, treated her well and for some inexplicable reason she couldn't understand she felt attracted to him eventually leading to her giving up her powers and eventually dying for him.
ooo yes agree 100%! and a lot of his flaws don't even seem to get recognised by the narrative/go unadressed (which links to the no growth point), which i think adds to it a lot as well
your Deep dive for this is on point and I have notes! lol I believe that Zander's character arc was Supposed to be exactly what became of Riley's minus the relationship with Buffy. Zander really should have been officially recruited into the Initiative and become the leader that he saw Riley as. It should have been Zander that left and returned to assist like we saw Riley do. Riley's character feels like it was actually where the Story of Zander was headed. Before the network change and the 2 extra seasons were suddenly added after it was unofficially drop by the (WB) maybe that is what Changed...
I definitely agree that Riley feels very much like what Xander could've or should've been. I think that's why Xander identified with him so much. Riley is literally the trajectory Xander was on (s1-s3) but never go there.
What bothered me was in the comics he started dating Buffy's sister Dawn I thought he was doing it to get back at Buffy then Buffy says she's interested in him. I'm like "What? You friendzoned this guy & now you want to date him? Keep your dignity girl." Riley I never liked I was like "Get this guy off the show he's annoying af." Xander was annoying to me too I never hated him he just spent several years chasing a girl who wasn't interested in him he was so jealous of Angel & then Spike for getting Buffy's love attention. Like Ryan said Xander went behind Buffy's back secretly probably to punish Buffy for not giving him the time of day.
The closest Xander got to self actualizing was the double episode, where his "strong" half went out to get the job while the "wimpy" half held onto all of Xander's anxiety and weakness. Almost sad that they came back together. That being said, I never hated Xander, but every rewatch he gets more cringe.
Whedon always said that he modeled Xander after himself... I wonder if that's why there wasn't much growth while Whedon was with the show. Since he was more consumed with Angel during Buffy's final two seasons, I feel the writers, tried to do a little bit by making Xander more mature with the construction job and with his 'mature guy' talks with Dawn and Willow.
I have to say something about Empty Places. That's actually the least antagonistic he'd been towards her. Usually, he lays into her, but this time, all he said was two sentences and was completely subdued. Everyone else (minus Faith) said a lot worse.
I think my problem with Xander comes down to Brendon. Joss prefers comic actors who can do drama, since so much of his writing is centered on witty banter. Brendon is a decent comic actor, but not up to par with most of the rest of the cast for dramatic acting. I suspect if Eric Balfour (Jesse) and Brendon had switched roles, with Balfour portraying Xander throughout the series run, I'd like Xander a lot more. Balfour has had pretty consistent work over the years, and I'm not sure he would have wanted to be "stuck" on Buffy so I don't know if it could have happened, but he has the acting chops to add depth to the role. Joss likes Brendon, but I suspect Balfour would have opened up his writing pallete for Xander and we would have seen a more complex and richer character. Then again, I just may not see what Brendon brings to the table, and it's just a matter of taste in acting style.
Xander was pretty progressive as a teenage female friend in 97-99. But the thing is, other shows went farther with it very quickly and by 00, we had stuff like Smallville doing it way better and Xander just never grew past "progressive for 97". Every year that passes for the audience, ages his jokes a lot worse (comedy does age the fastest and he was the comic releif)
I watched Buffy live and it was great, then I was rewatching DVDS of Angel and it forced me to go back and rewatch Buffy episodes and it definitely hit different when you werent immersed in it. Maybe I need to check it out again. I will say the Season 8 comic book was great.
I thought Xander was going to be the 2nd smartest kid after Williow but he's a complete loser. Thing I hated most about Xander he was just too immature for me. His parents also did'nt seem to care for him much which probably affected the way he act. I thought he got shot at the end of season 6 the way he fell but it was Buffy who was shot. The actor even worst then Xander.He beat up his girlfriend, so it makes me hate the character more.
I watched Buffy when it first aired, so I never really got into the fanbase or knew that other fans hate Xander. Okay. I always liked him. He was a pretty average guy from the 1990s. I probably should rewatch the show and see what the kids these days are objecting to. Enjoyed your video! Always nice to see young people talking about shows I loved in my younger years. :)
I've been watching BTVS consistently since the first day it aired and I have to say it ages amazingly well as far as commentary on life goes. I support you rewatching. You'll be happy you did!
There's a number of points in the show where Xander's friends have an opportunity to hold him accountable and never do, and I don't blame Buffy and Willow that much because they were really young and still figuring stuff out, navigating their own complicated issues, but Giles, the adult in the room, definitely could have done more. He always treated Xander like an irritation instead of a kid who needed some guidance. That's what was missing when he jilted Anya. He was so afraid of repeating his family's patterns because that's all that had been modeled to him, and he was lacking positive adult role models.
buffy and willow did FAR FAR FAR worse stuff and there never held accountable for it. i mean what did xander really do, lie to buffy to save the world and make a few sex joke that willow and buffy were ok with.
Xander was supposed to come to the realization that he was gay. If you go back to the first 2 seasons you can see it bubbling in the background. But then the writers scrapped that storyline and gave it to Willow when Oz left. They were like we can't have 2 gay main characters and they didn't know what to do with him.
As a gay man i am glad they never went with it. I already hate the ‘realization’ bs cus thats just hetero pov of what being gay is. Furthermore it would’ve painted being gay as something you become/acquire rather than born being gay which is age old religious homophobia. The show also always painted the always implicit gay men as incredibly negative and cowardly, you can see they wouldnt have been able to write a gay male character because like so many they either do not see gay men as human beings or they just don’t care about them. Xander also had an infatuation with buffy, a relationship with cordelia, an affair with willow and was assaulted by faith for his 1st time whereas willow had a crush on xander and a slow natural paced relationship with oz even tho i still do not like turning gay storylines even with willow with xander it would have actually demanded a complete suspension of belief and would have pushed for homophobic/pro c.therapy rhetoric and would have been extremely creepy all around to me. I also believe jw reasons to not make willow was cowardly and a very poor excuse i personally always saw her as bi but with a heavy lean towards women so they clearly only were able to write them by the skin of their teeth. Also they mention it when tara talks to willow about her relationship to magic/lesbianism as just college experiences and instead of willow trying to understand tara and reassure her she blamed tara and got defensive (which ngl typical bi reaction in this situation). Also people don’t like to hear but people give less leeway and less scrutiny to lesbians than gay men thats probably why they choose willow and were able to write them better than they could even write alleged gay male one off characters. I love btvs forever but they’d never have the ability to write gay male characters with the same consideration and respect as any other groups. we dodged a bullet.
A lot of fans forget about the first episode of "Welcome to the Hellmouth". Xander's best friend Jesse is killed by a vampire, it affects him on a life changing level. He hates vampires, they take away his best friend and he (in his eyes) loses the girl of his dreams to one. Buffy falling for a vampire instead of him had to hurt on a different level because it shows that she'd rather be with a dead man than Xander. I'm not saying it's healthy or right, but it's human. He has a very unhealthy home life with an alcoholic father(who probably cheats on his wife) and is probably not just mentally but physically abusive. So he didn't have the best example growing up on what a healthy relationship should be. He could have been Warren, but instead is grounded because he has good people around him and decides to fight the good fight, even if he is the zeppo and doesn't always get credit. Buffy's a slayer/warrior, Willow is a powerful witch, Giles is intelligent and wise, Xander is just human but does the right thing because it's the right thing to do. There was supposed to be instead of Dawn in conversations with dead people, Xander being visited by Jesse, but they couldn't get the actor. It's the only episode you don't see Xander in. I really wished they could have had that story in that episode because I think it would have been a great closure or arch for Xander. Xander is problematic at times, but still has a good heart. He's flawed but will still have his friend's backs no matter what. He will be there through their worsts just like they will be there for his. I agree, it can be hard to like him at times(mine being him telling buffy to kick angel's ass) but he's still a great character.
The Conversations with Dead People point would have elevated that episode even more into my favorites if not #1, which I think it already is. But Dawn's part always felt, off. I do think we can find bitterness with Xander though. If you swap vampire with football player, friend killed by a player driving drunk, but Buffy dates another player. Then his assault by Faith, another slayer, probably, based on his character up to that point, reinforced some anger towards Buffy, that they use guys like him. You want a girl, she dates the guys you have generalized hate for (ignoring that vampires are inherit killers), and a girl just like her assaults you as your first intimate encounter. My problem was always how he ralied against her every chance, interfered with her romantic life every chance. Made her life putting him in harms way, but being butthurt when left out. Willow didnt want to be left out, but cant remember her being resentful at Buffy when she got hurt.
I've done videos on tiktokabout Xander's undiscussed trauma from what happened with Jesse but the reality is it's not that fans forget it, it's never addressed. That's another example of the ways the show completely overlooked a moment to develop/add nuance to Xander's character.
I did always find it strange how Xander and Willow would frequently reference their childhood friendship and NEVER mention Jesse. Like was he really THAT close of a friend, or was a more recent addition?
Same. Xander did a lot of things over the years that I didn't like, but I didn't hate him for it. He was living a pretty horrifying life in Sunnyvale, probably too scared to even question why he didn't run for the hills much less work to try to improve himself. He coped most of the time by joking, changing the subject, and just acting without thinking. An average person probably would react the way he did in that show. He never got powers that stayed, wasn't part of any super organizations that backed him like Giles (Watchers Council) or Riley (military), or had anything to give him a sense of self worth. Oh, and his family life sucked. He was just this regular person surrounded by amazing people feeling less than them 24/7. He could be a jerk at times, but he was also likeable and he cared. He wanted to help, but that was a crazy place and a lot to ask of someone with no special resources. He was young, dumb, and scared, but also hopeful, well intentioned, and willing to try. I liked him.
Whedon said Xander was him in high school, and it looks like he very mistakenly left out of development. Yeah, and it's really weird they didn't address the rape episode.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I think Xander had potential, BUT, the fact that Joss Whedon has come out and said that he modeled Xander after himself... well, I guess we know why he never had Xander take accountability for anything.
Tbh I feel like the reason he didn’t have any growth was because the writers didn’t think he needed to. Which is telling, especially with Whedon at the helm
Xander was Joss Whedon that is why everytime Xander was enabled by his fans, Joss was enabled to do what he did.
There was no need for character growth because, Xander was allowed to get away with everything..... he was never brought to task for what he did to Anya, he never was brought to task over his lying about Willow wanting to kick Angels ass, Xander was ''The Trio''...... which is why it took so long to see them as the threat that they were.
it is why so many people hate season 6...... season 6's reaction says more about the person, than it does the season.
Very much so. They thought he was good as is. They were sadly mistaken.
He was 100% Whedon’s self insert character.
@@ryanbtalkstvI always read it as some people simply dont grow and Xander was the greatest example of this
I agree, its like real life, some people just do not grow
The hyena episode, he did a lot of things in that episode that he himself found disgusting and wrong (bullying, attempted r*pe, attempted cannibalism, to name a few) and at the end of the episode who pretended to have memory loss rather than address anything he did. That always rubbed me the wrong way.
But it’s like you said, most of my issues came from how quick he was to tear Buffy down or attack her when she was at a point.
Let's not forget he caused a bunch of human combustion in once more with feeling and blackmailed Amy to spell Cordelia almost causing her death. He also owes Joyce the door Drusilla threw down. Honestly, Xander has killed more people than Faith, why is she the bad one?
No Buffy was wrong. And Xander attack her for her stupid choices that was getting people killed
And then proceeded to treat Angel as if he and Angelus are the same person. Over-identify much?
he never treated angel and anglus as the same person
he HATE anglus does not like angel
BUT he has no reason to like angle, i mean angle almost feed him to spike had to be force tosave buffy 200 year old going after a 16 year old girl
angel has NOT one sence were he nice to xander,
Let's be glad Buffy was stop from going with Xander when he was put under the spell of the hyena. Buffy would have lead the Hyena people. She already had enhanced strength so maybe she would have been even stronger.
Yeah, I always felt so many of Xander's underhanded digs at Buffy were because she turned him down. Which is honestly just really yucky. He's my least favorite charecter. And you brought up a great point of no accountability. Showing my husband this show, that was his main complaint. There is never any real accountability for Xander or Willow. It's kind of always just brushed under the rug.
I hated that
Buffy let how many people die. But Xander get bash
@@stevemyopinion423umm Buffy is ONE person
Just like Superman, she can’t save everyone
Willow, Xander or the others would have the SAME weight on their shoulders..
they do have the same weight they are hero just liek buffy, remember buffy NEVER beat a big bad without help
Xender always sad sorry for every mistake he made ..His mistake are very small compair to buffy and willo
Faith Sexually Assaulting Xander would have been a great narrative to explore how men can be victims and how it affects them in a world that just brushes it off.
I agree though this show pretty much ignores all sexual assault besides Warren. Willow erases Tara memories then scissors her without Tara being able to give consent because her memories were erased which is sexual assault.
Realy should habe been him.having PTSD. I mean he kill his best friend. His second mom was killed. And like what 20 army friends were killed. And a drug problem. He did not start.
@@lance9249 I don't think Warren considered it sexual assault since he was using magic but once she said it's rape it felt more real and even his friends looked disgusted.
Didn't Faith assault Riley by sleeping with Riley while in Buffy body?
@@l.n.3372likewise assaulting Buffy in the process
It hit me with the episode where he BLACKMAILS Amy to cast a spell on Cordy for revenge.
Then he lies to Cordy about why, and they end up back together.
"Willow said kick his ass" - I was so relieved when they revealed that in latter seasons but it was never resolved, they went over it so fast, and then I was mad again.
Xander was right Buffy almost died without holding back had she went into the battle holding out hope Angel would return she might have died.
@@lance9249 She would have done the same regardless of Xander. She always did what she had to. He could have not said anything but he chose to lie or he could have said kick his ass without adding "Willow said" but he was a coward
buffy does not do what she has to she let anglus run around for mouths kill what 10 50 people more
every day she let anglus live she was betraling her freind, her caling and all the innocent people in sunydale.
people should be bashing buffy but they go well xadner lied
buffy let anglus run around killing for mouths there should be a million post about how buffy evil and selfish and how she let all those people die but no there xander lied post
She held back last time too that was the problem
Because he cheated on Cordelia and left Anya at the alter.
He cheated with Willow, they both guilty. And honestly Xander feel more guilty than Willow. He left Anya, because of demon manipulation - and it's Anya fault. She's made that poor dude demon, and he want revenge. He uses Xander and his inside fears.
It's not the reasons for hate...
@@IwonaKlichyes. You summed it up. I think people forget that point about the Demon manipulating him.
LOL - I liked Xander. BUT, I forgot about those two events. Those alone are good enough to make me rethink my thought.
@@TodaysDante The show never did a good job of explaining Xander to the audience. He lived in a dysfunctional household his family we see on the wedding episode being terrible we get one small scene on Christmas where he sleeps outside to avoid his family's conflict the guy suffered trauma. It's no surprise he does things like joking in serious situations to deescalate tension or is horrible at relationships it's all he ever seen and the guy was 17 and 20 when both these events happened, he's still trying to figure out life and has not overcome abuse.
welll he fight vampire and still sleep outsdie and is afraid of his father not hard to guess how bad his home life is
The only thing i ever hated about Xander it's his hypocritical relationships with Buffy's supernatural romances. I mean, Buffy isn't let to date vampires but you are let to date vengeance demon?
Former. Anya was completely human when Xander dated her while Angel was an undead demon who murdered a person they loved or tortured tried to kill them.
@@lance9249 not Angel. Angelus. It's different personalities and even then Angel constantly shows huge remorse for what his evil alter-ego did. Anya on the other hand wasn't showing any remorse until season 7. It's even more hypocritical when Xander say that he won't forgive Spike cause he "exterminate half of Europe" in his past while I'm pretty sure Anya killed much more people.
Anya human. Spike souless still a mass murder and rapist.
When he got his soul back Xander never said a word. So not a hypocrisy
@@michaelzjwanko3680 Exactly.
Agreed. There are many here who'd be like "oh, Anya was human, Spike soulless", which is also the biggest hypocrisy. For Anya being human meant only that she had lost her powers. She is the same personality who murdered, tortured and mutilated countless humans, enjoyed it, shows zero remorse when she is without her powers and recounts her demon's deeds with laugh (and Xander hears all those stories and doesn't pity her victims in the slightest). She is not any different from Spike with a chip, who also completely loses his powers for a while, but not his former vampire personality. And, unlike Spike, Anya has a soul which should tell her she should repent, or at least feel bad about the people she wronged. But no, quite to the contrary, so her having a soul makes her all the more guilty.
It always especially pissed me off that he threatened to kill Buffy several times when angry at her. Buffy let him off too easy.
I feel like Xander was just Joss Whedon's POV character, and he says what Whedon thinks about women and does what Whedon wishes he could do.
This comment right here!!! JW had said Xander was him and we all know how problematic he is. 🙄
@@KillerCammy85”problematic”
Lol no you’re not the problem at all
joss said xander was PART of him same with buffy and giles.
@stevemyopinion423
No Xander was a self-insert of joss.
I think you nailed this, tbh. Yes, all of them are deeply flawed characters, but most of them got to confront those flaws at some point during the series and learn from it. It’s hard to hate someone who recognises their mistakes and tries to make up for them. Xander never really had those moments, and so you come away with the idea that he was being given tacit permission to be a jackass. He ended the show believing that he was justified in all the horrible things he did, because he was never shown a mirror and made to look at his true reflection.
Spot on... I feel in many ways he was kind of a mirror to the audience as well... I was a Late Teenager when I first saw Buffy, And I saw a LOT of Xander in me... But now at 51, I have grown... I have changed and I am better than that now, Not perfect, I still fall back into Xander at times... But Overall I am Wiser than I once was!
In a world of Fantasy, He is just a bit too Realistic... He displays flaws most of us have and we watch TV and Movies to escape that reality! We wanted to see Xander GROW and Become BETTER... To give us hope we could be better! But he NEVER GROWS!
You're so right about Xander reveling in Buffy's low points. It's a really ugly part of the show that's hard to unsee once you've seen it. Buffy never deserved his long-simmering resentment.
I dislike him greatly. Even if I enjoyed his humor and felt him the only ''normal'' one of the bunch, hence the most relatable.
His hatred for Angel puts me off despite me not loving Angel all that much.
He never got over the fact Buffy rejected him, so he had to hate any boyfriend she had.
Riley he liked because they were so alike. It felt like Xander loved Riley more than Buffy ever did.
Then there's leaving Anya at the altar. That is disgusting, no matter how you look at it.
And before that, there's him ruining Willow's relationship with Oz.
I found that worse than his cheating on Cordelia.
Willow had been after him for so long and he knew it! He only noticed her when she found someone else.
That said, I love how he was there for Buffy despite not having to.
Most people would leave such a dangerous friend behind.
And I love his scene with Dark Willow,
I cannot hate him, but I'm happy buffy and Willow dodged THAT bullet.
I really wish he was held accountable for the bullshit he did, like most other characters.
Held accountable like when Willow erased Tara memories and raped her?
Yeah, Cordilla only steps in when things are at the absolute lowest. Once squarring off against a vampire. This time against Xander. If Cordialla has to step up defend someone, you know you screwed up
EXACTLY..
The first time I watched through the show I had no problem with Xander, I was young and emotionally immature, It could also be that I am ND and at the time didn't understand social interactions as well as I do now. But as I grew up and became more mature and emotionally mature I started to see how much of a walking red flag Xander was and oh boy is that an understatement. These days, I feel Xander only really had two scenes where he was genuinely, and momentarily a good character. 1 is of course, the yellow crayon speech. The other is one I don't see people talk about much but I feel it's underrated, maybe it's emotional impact didn't hit others the way it hit me. When Xander gives dawn the speech about her being extraordinary when she found out she wasn't a potential, Oooof. Other than those two moments. Xander is pretty much a manchild who never took the time to grow up emotionally and realize how his actions affect those around him.
What does nd mean? Also, how did he have red flags? He was a great friend to everyone in his group, which is why they kept him around for seven years. Sure he had flaws, but who doesn't?
@@davidmeadows5627 ND = neurodivergent (I'm autistic, which means I'm ND, but other conditions are also classified as ND).
Thank you. This explains a lot.
Agreed!
If you really believe that. You less mature as a adult then you were as.a.child.
Xander again Buffy when she doing something that get other people kill like not killing anglus and runmig. Away. Or could get her killed like sleeping with spike a mass murder that his chip don't work on her
People over look how dangerous that is. And hideing it was putting ever else km danger.
Xander felt like he had this superiority complex and entitlement to the woman on the show. Like you said, there was never any balance for him. I think the thing that made his character worse for me was that the show would reward his horrible behavior to his friends, i.e., making his bad hot takes correct or not punishing him in the same way others would get punished.
I never thought he was entitled. To women.
No but he did, a bit to often.
but he NEVER did, entited is they should love me not it hurt they dont love me it 2 different things
@@stevemyopinion423There's an entire episode that unfortunately proves you wrong. The one where he tries to put a love spell on Cordelia. He could have let it go, but he tried to manipulate her mind. I know I know, he was acting out bc he was hurt, but still.
Well he did not do the spell. But I agree 100 percent wrong. But he did not ask for the spell to get her back. Just to break up with her. Like she did him
But if you hold the same standard Buffy and willow were the same way.
I hated Xander until he decided he was going to marry Anya. I thought their relationship was one of the only good things happening in season six and that they were having some cold feet but theyd get over it. Then he leaves her at the alter even after it was explained that it was someone with a vendetta trying to break them up with lies. Now its back to being the worst again.
This man is constantly negative and frames it as being protective but its just controlling at heart. He's digusting
it not contorling at all, if it there a chacne it get someone killed then it ok to judge people for it.
i spike was a mass murder and rapist sleeping with him was very dangerous taht why xander had a problem with it,
buffy sleeping with parker xander had no problem
see the difference
@@stevemyopinion423 but like spike had a chip and it was very much felt like he was shaming her and anya for sleeping with spike. he wasn't at all concerned for their safety's just disgusted that they'd sleep with spike.
i think part of was safty
but it was becouse spike a evil soul monster
he even said you let that SOULESS THING touch you.
people like spike but he is a mass murder and rapist i would look at anyone that sleep with him as there carzy, and the real life eq of spike would be someone like jeffery domoer
@@stevemyopinion423 As he was talking though it didn't sound like he was shaming spike, more like he was shaming Anya and Buffy because they slept with a 'souless evil thing' and Xander for some reason felt some entitlement towards these woman who he a. left at the alter and b. knew wasn't interested in him.
i dont think it was entitlemet at all it was more dispointment, i mean i would look down on any one that woudl sleep with that monster
I wouldn't say I hate Xander but especially in the early seasons he can be pretty unlikeable.
And I totally agree that it's a shame that so many things weren't addressed when it comes to Xander. I'm so annoyed everytime I watch season 7 because they just sort of gloss over the fact that Xander lied to Buffy regarding Angel. Willow just says something like "I never said that!" and that's it. Buffy seems to not even recognise what Willow says. I would have expected Willow and especially Buffy getting furious with Xander.
Buffy does address it later when she brings up the kick his butt line. But she doesn't press, which shows that she may hate that he did it. But she can understand why he did and can see why it was nescesary for the world.
The writers have stated Buffy would have lost if she thought Angel had any chance of coming back, since she would have held back. So Xander's lie did save the world in the writer's mind and was nescesary. That's why they didn't take Xander to task over it. They didn't see it as bad. And we know at least two of the writers are pretty gross people, so it's really making sense why all the characters worst traits never get brought up properly in show.
Willow should have gotten mad at him though. Because even if Xander had a reasonable thought proccess behind not telling buffy about the second attempt. He should not have put willows words into the kicking his butt thing. That's the really horrible part and is the reason Buffy ran away. If he didn't say that part, Buffy would have stayed with Willow over the summer/gone on a summer roadtrip with her and Oz or something. Or at least been in contact with Willow with Willow keeping it secret.
@@kyleellis1825 I know joss was the gross writer but who was the other one?
@@razycrandomgirl Marti. The entire spike/buffy storyline was her, with the bathroom scene even something she proudly proclaimed to have done to an ex boyfriend.
@kyleellis1825 I thought joss pushed for the bathroom scene. I remember reading that he wanted spike to do something so egregious because he didn’t like all of the fans liking spike so much and he wanted to remind them he’s an awful vampire
@@lindseystein9676I thought you meant Steven DeKnight, the writer who called Jenna Ortega toxic for having input into her character on Wednesday. Idk how Marti was in the Buffy writers room but on Mad Men she helped fight against sexual harassment in the writers room.
From what I understand, Xander was Joss Whedon's self-insert, and that would explain a lot, especially with discoveries made since then about Joss and how he treats people, especially women.
Exactly why Xander is a proto incel
@@gingerkid1048you use words learned on tiktok that you don't understand
He was Joss self-insert, is that why they planned him to be gay but changed it when Oz left?
And why Xander gets away with things
Xander was amazingly judgmental for someone who absolutely doesn’t have his own shit together! And Xander never really took responsibility for what he did to Anya. He thought he could dump Anya at the altar and then just go back to dating like it never happened! Just an incredibly immature character.
xadner mistake vs buffy and wilow are FAR smaller
Right after he and Willow were caught, he was trying to shift blame and show Cordy that he was happy without her, even though he's the one who screwed them up.
that not true he tried to talk ot her she would not would not talk to him, then she walk up to him and insult him for mouths, and told ebarrsing story about him to his freinds.
@@stevemyopinion423 He was at the Bronze her first night back complaining.
She, as the wronged party, didn’t owe him a conversation. She made it clear in the hospital that she wanted him to leave her alone. Him calling her and trying to talk to her after that was all about him. Like Willow with Oz, Xander wanted to talk so that he could feel better and that was not Cordy’s problem. In case you forgot, before Cordelia and Xander were in a relationship, all they did was insult each other. The only difference was that Xander had actually done something to earn her enmity.
Cordelia didn’t let people get close to her, but she let Xander in, only to have him hurt and betray her. She also let herself care about Buffy, Willow, and Giles to a degree, and she lost that too.
And Xander did leave her alone. We watch the sence. She walk up to him and insult him over and over again for what weeks mouths. Even telling his embarrassing secrets to the group
And people blame him. Xander was wrong to cheat. But she was a bitch after to him.
Warren is Xander free of inhibitions
I did a tik tok about this awhile ago. Maybe I'll make a vid over here about it. I think Xander is Joss' insert before he'd gained success/power and Warren represents Joss after he gained power, the ability to act out on feelings of entitlement and abuse that power.
@@ryanbtalkstv I can totally see that!
Wow well said
@@ryanbtalkstvoh my gosh that’s totally how I feel about Xander!!
Yeah, that hit dead on.
I liked his character ok enough in season 1 but I couldn't forgive he or Willow after cheating on Oz. I still liked the show a lot: especially for Spike and Anya, but who could cheat on Oz? He's the best!!
All the characters did messed up stuff. But I don’t think the writers were ever fully aware of how messed up some of the things Xander said/did were. A lot of things just got swept under the rug and never really investigated. I think that it partly due to the time. Xander was the classic “nice guy”. He had female friends. He was (mostly) loyal to them. He wasn’t a cheater (outside of those few episodes in season 3). He wasn’t an obvious macho, aggressive jackass. He was supposed to be a nerd. So, I feel the writers likely viewed his hypocrisy and judgmental tendencies and possessiveness as not that harmful because he was an overall “nice guy.” They never really felt the need to confront that stuff in meaningful ways. I also just don’t think the writers were as invested in him as they were Buffy and Willow. Nicholas has talked about Joss telling him that they had planned on killing off Xander at the end of season 3. But Nicholas asked to continue. They kept Xander alive but warned him that he wouldn’t be getting as much attention as Buffy and Willow. Hell, you can almost tell that the writers weren’t that invested in Xander by them immediately putting him with Anya in season 4 and her quickly becoming the funnier and most interesting character of the two. They lost interest in him. He never really got an arc or a storyline post season 3, just an episode every ten installments or so that focused on him. And therefore a lot of things that should have been addressed or fleshed out never really was with him. In conclusion, the combo of “nice guy” syndrome and the writers losing interest in him is why a lot of Xander things don’t play as well today and he seems to have no real arc.
He was a cheater. He cheated on Cordy.
@@lifelikelisa It’s also apparent that the writers didn’t see that as big of a betrayal as it actually was. And kinda made Cordy a bitter ex. I also was thinking more about his post high school years and his relationship with Anya.
That's because Xander was Joss and we all know what a jerk he turned out to be.
@@russellward4624I mean, Willow r*ped Tara repeatedly. Dint know why she always gets a pass for that, when she should be in prison.
willow cheated on OZ but she never get bash for it
buffy cheated again that over looked
Your video popped up as a recommended video. I'm glad it did. You made a great video with very detailed points. It's been years since I was "in" the Buffy universe, but you still pulled me into it with your conversational tone and backed it up with so many details and receipts. Great vid! Thanks!
Thank you! I really appreciate the detailed compliment! Welcome back to the hellmouth!
Another reason i dont like him is woth the who willow thing, willow always loved him, he couldnt care less, he always saw her as back up or rebound, he had so many chances to get with will but he didnt want her until oz wanted her, i know band candy had something to do with that but still, hes a low insecure little boy
the sick nice guy thinking, xander love willow just becoue he did not want to date her he did nothing wrong and just becouse his feeling got mess up and they kiss a few time does not make him a bad man.
i mean willow cheated to and you dont blame her
sorry but xander not wanting to date willow is fine and there nothing wrong there,
@az21bob666 read the comment again that's not the only reason, this video was not about willow, cause I do have my issues with her moving on so fast after tara, of course he loves her, like a sister he even said it, I could over look it, cause I don't blame oz for cheating on willow, but Xander makes stupid decisions and comments way too much
Yes Xander makes mistakes. But I feel his mistakes are far less then willow or Buffy. And he get bash for more them.
There seemed to be a certain block of Season Seven where everyone seems to have broken their brains and lost their minds:
Buffy: The First wants us all dead, likes to feed us information to lead us into traps, so let's keep following that information and rushing into those traps!
Everyone else in the Scooby Gang: The First wants us all dead, likes to feed us information to lead us into traps, so let's keep following that information and rushing into those traps, and let's kick out Buffy as well!
Caleb: We want Buffy and the Slayer line destroyed, we don't want her and her team to have this mystical weapon, so let's make sure they all know where it is, and send our bombs, ubervamps, etc. elsewhere! And when Buffy shows up, I'll make sure to show her precisely where it is while flailing like a drunkard!
I am 100% convinced The First wanted Buffy to not only find the Axe, but use it in exactly the way she did. Bringing slayer power to every potential was definitely a part of its plan to bring about the Apocalypse.
I rarely if ever comment on videos but I have to say “I am really attached to my hate of Xander Harris” is the best thing I have heard this year!
I wish Darla had found him instead in S1. That's how much i hate him.
His blind jealously and possessive tendencies really bothered me. Especially as I get older.
They did drop the ball on Xander’s growth. And they had baked in disfunction with his home life from early on they didn’t take advantage of.
I think, his sexual assault by Faith was never taken as seriously as it should have because there’s the stereotypes type of ‘what teenage boy doesn’t fantasize about an older woman taking charge’. That was a narrative hugely pushed in the 90’s. Same with the older guy trope. It was ‘romanticized’.
It's strange that people have come to this ideia that Xander was assaulted by Faith. He clearly had a crush on her as he would any other girl in his close circle of friends and when she asks him, he says point blank that he is "up" for it, so clearly that can be seen as consent. Also, during the point where we kind of see them through the tv screen, it doesnt seem at all intense (in a bad way) or even awkward. After the did is done, we also get the sense that Xander really thought it was a good experience, since he expected pillow talk to follow. Anyway, Faith is not an older woman trope either cause she is probably Buffy's age or at minimum 1-2 years older. Remember in season 7 when they mentioned slayers are called when they are very young? Since Kendra was killed midway through season 2 and Faith dropped right at the beginning of season 3, we can assume she was still in highschool too, and maybe dropped out because now she had a chance to do something cool and embrace a calling with less rules to abid by. I think Faith was a good choice to be Xander's first after Cordelia dumped him for being a fool.
All that being said, Faith most def sexually assaulted Buffy AND Riley in the episode Who Are You
And you are right about the older guy trope being romanticized in the 90s (I think that still happens today tbh)
The first time between Faith and Xander was indeed consensual. But after Faith told Giles that it was Buffy who was the "accidental murderer" Xander stopped by her place again to try and be a supportive friend. That's when she forced herself on him. If Angel hadn't showed up she might've killed him
Faith was two years younger than him at the time. She was 16, a minor, and he was 18, the adult.
@@davidmeadows5627 She was also a slayer, and therefore had the greater physical strength.
@@davidmeadows5627Faith wasn’t 16 at the time. She was 17/18 when we first met her.
For me, his telling Dawn what Spike did to Buffy is unforgivable. Yes, that episode has the yellow crayon scene, and had that scene with Dawn not happened, I’d easily put that as the best Xander scene. But since he told Dawn what Spike did to Buffy, and not in a “look, I know you like him, but just trust me on this, he’s dangerous” way, but in a casual, tactless and spiteful way, I am left to say how dare he, how fucking DARE he take away Buffy’s right to decide when or if she’d tell Dawn what happened. And THEN he says “is this blind spot a generic trait with Summers women,” so not only does he victim blame Buffy, he drags their dead mother into it?? Fuck. Xander. Harris.
Had he said "trust me he's dangerous" do you think that would have worked really Dawn had a great relationship with Spike a simple "trust me he's dangerous" would not have worked
If he had said, “trust me, he’s dangerous” and she kept pushing so he told her, then yes, I’d have accepted that. But again he said it in a casual tactless and spiteful way. It was Buffy’s right to decide as to whether or not she would tell Dawn, and Xander took that away from her. He had no right to do that.
spike tried to rape buffy HE was a huge danger his chip did not work on buffy it could have stop working at all for all they new and DAWN the key would it even work on her.
sorry BUFFY keeping that a secret is prue EVIL on buffy part she was puttting everone in FAR more danger
remember when xadner was a hynee and he attack buffy sHE told willow in giles, not telling them would have been WRONG, so it buffy keeping what happen to spike that EVIL on buffy part
xander was 100 percent right to tell dawn spike was a danger to everyone and if it chip did not wokr on buffy what if it did not work on dawn KEY girl buffy was selfish and EVIL keeping that a secret
dawn should have smack and said what if he rape ME becoeu you did not tell me so i coudl protect myself, but that buffy keeping secret putting othere in danger
@@WaywardAce420 Not only that Spike was a huge comfort and safety for Dawn. She had lost so much, was often forgotten about and Spike was there for her. To tell her about what happened without Buffy’s consent is wrong. I’m not excusing Spikes behaviour either but the nuances of their relationship were part of that. The lines were blurred.
Whatever you think of him as a character or relationship fodder, the “seer” of the show who told truths? Spike.
Xander Harris is Ash. No particular talents, skills or powers. Constantly tries to weasel out of confrontation. But when t e chips are down, he comes through like a boss.
Consider The Zeppo. Xander is a cowardly weasel through most of the episode. Until he realizes that the bullies who have tormented him for years are now zombies. And zombies are something he's dealt with before. So he goes Boss Mode and takes them down until his final confrontation with Jack over the bomb where he's utterly fearless.
But when he's with the rest of the gang, he's Shaggy, the ineffectual doofus.
A thing with Xander that always bugged me (not related, but I'll say it here) is that I'm convinced that rather than lose an eye, he should have died. Would have raised the stakes, would have made The First a legit threat, would have made Buffy being kicked out of her house make sense. I think that he didn't have anything more to offer, it would have been shocking, and it was towards the end, meaning characters can be axed without issue, as there isn't any reason to keep them around.
It started with him creepin' on Buffy when she clearly wasn't interested. Then he mostly just acted like a teenage boy/young man, which is reason enough. It's a compliment to the show though that they let him be as flawed as most young men that age, but he still came through when people's lives were on the line.
I personally hate Xander because of how he treats angel and spike. I mean buffy just prefers Xander as a friend and he should be fine with that, but he couldn’t stand spike which I hate yes soulless spike was evil but when spike got his soul back he was on his redemption and he was back to the human man he was before turning but Xander still hated him even though he had a soul I just think the way Buffy chose vampires over him made it a reason to hate even if they were good later on in the show
go back and watch the show what did xadner say bad thing about spike when he had a soul never
@@stevemyopinion423 true, but you can tell by his facial expressions and his problem having spike stay with him since he left the basement, plus him siding the the other scoobies about what to do with spike
Sorry but attacking him first face is just crazy
And when spike has the trigger Xander was the one that said trigger and it just his fault.
I hated Xander from the moment he said to Buffy “kick his ass” about killing Angel 😡😡😭😭
For me it's the sense of entitlement which drove forth a lot of his actions, the repeated cheating on Cordelia, leaving Anya at the altar which highlighted that he is at his core a coward who can be easily swayed - all he does is react to how poorly his parents behave around each other, he doesn't bother to think "no, I can do better"; rallying gang-ups on Buffy, the overall lack of growth or change, and what really doesn't help the perception of his character is the fact Whedon identifies with Xander specifically.
There’s major reasons why I hate Xander Harris, him being a self righteous judgemental hypocrite. The problem I have with some of the Xander lovers who are Pro-Xander say that Xander is the heart of the group, how is he the heart of the group when he constantly judges Buffy’s decisions, lied to her in “Becoming Part 2” as well as verbally attacking her in “Dead Man’s Party” not to mention he slut shame Cordelia because of how she dress. Yes I know Cordelia bullied and insulted Xander but Xander slut shaming her was disgusting, in fact Cordelia was a better friend to Buffy than Xander ever was. There were some good things that he did such as buying Cordelia’s prom dress when she couldn’t herself and reviving Buffy in “Prophecy Girl” but it doesn’t excuse his misogyny.
Cordelia deserved it was Xander just supposed to ignore her constantly bullying of him like he deserved it for not being popular? She bullied Willow she bullied everyone who she thought was beneath her Cordelia was a terrible person. Xander had Angel almost kill him once with Dru saving him he stood off with Angel in the hospital watched Angel kill Jenny almost kill Willow seriously he had a broken arm because of Angel in "Becoming Part 2" I get your perfect and all but he had every right to want it over and Angel dead.
@@lance9249 Cordelia’s mean girl behavior is the reflection of the person that Buffy Summers was before Buffy became the slayer, Cordelia actually grew out of it and became a better person there’s a major difference between the person she was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the person she became in the spin off Angel. Xander insulted her by saying her outfit make her look like a hooker. Xander was a horrible friend and should be grateful Buffy is still friends with him because she could have pulled a Cordelia by insulting Xander for all the horrible things he did as well as judging her decisions.
you crazy xander never was a hypocrite
buffy let anglus kill for mouths sorry but everyone should be hateing buffy NOT xander
willlow slut shame cordy more then xander did
sorry but xander yelling at buffy becous she was getting people killed is 100 percent ok. she should have been yell at more
sorry xander judge buffy on shit that get peopel killed and shit that people shoudl hate her for,
buffy let anglus kill for mouths and xadner lie sorry but everyone should be hatting on buffy NOT xander
and cordya better freidn who xander buffy life like 20 time it was for sure nto cordy
Yes the heart thing never sat well with me.
Man, I’d completely forgotten that he was even supposed to be in a “one who sees” role. Spike was so effective at it that Xander was completely overshadowed in my mind. I remember Buffy actually saying, “I can fool Giles, and I can fool my friends, but I can’t fool myself. Or Spike, for some reason.”It’s a really interesting thing to do with a character who isn’t a good person and can’t be trusted to have even his allies’ best interests in mind for so much of the story.
There’s no reason Xander couldn’t have grown to be very perceptive in a way that would suit his character. It would not have been the same as Spike, which sounds fascinating. I mourn the lost potential. But they really, really would have needed to put the work in when they do have this other guy wandering in and out with his dismaying tendency to hone in on the things people were hoping no one would notice.
I really liked Xander at the time Buffy aired, but it fell off in season 6 when he left Anya. As an adult, I now borderline hate him. I certainly loathe what the show did with his character.
Xander was Joss Whedon's self-insert character (Joss said as much in interviews), which says so much about both Joss Whedon AND Xander. I think that's part of the reason why Xander's character was allowed to slide by with such little development.
I'm glad you brought up Xander not helping Buffy and Riley. People like to give the excuse that Xander didn't say anything to Buffy because he didn't want to interfere in their relationship, but A.) He's had no problem interfering in her relationships before B.) He didn't necessarily need to disclose what Riley said to him. Maybe just remind Buffy that she should make sure that her relationship remained a priority and to be communicative with Riley.
Exactly! When has Xander ever minded his business when it came to Buffy's love life? The Riley situation was an awfully convenient time to start lol. I agree that Joss identifying with Xander played a big part in the show not feeling he needed growth. Like Xander, look how Joss' perception has aged
I agree so much about what you’re saying about Xander. I was really hoping for more growth in season 4 and like they dropped the ball with his character there. I would have loved for him to become more sure of himself and to legit stop attacking Buffy so much or to even deal with why he keeps doing it. It was such a missed opportunity
Cordelia was the real friend
10000000 percent. A real one in general
Ah yes, the nasty mean girl bully... what a pal.
@@maxsommers6843 Cordelia started out as a nasty mean girl bully in Season 1 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She did grow from being a nasty mean girl bully to someone whom not even vampires dared mess with in Season 2.
@@AdultThirdCultureKid1971 Cordelia was mean the entire time she was on BtVS. Even when she was in the Scooby Gang she continued to be rude and tactless to them (despite the number of times they'd literally saved her life), and after she and Xander broke up she reverted back to her old ways albeit in a *slightly* less nasty manner.
@@maxsommers6843didn't she also save them a couple of times even after that betrayal
I’m gonna love this channel. Buffy analysis galore!!❤❤ I never hated Zander, but his possessiveness towards Buffy and the way he lashed out at her in so many situations got on my last nerve. He was way too good at being a petty twat. Not a good look bro! Also, using Willow as a free therapist to work out his feelings for Buffy (while conveniently ignoring her obvious crush on him) was garbage. I’ve been in Willow’s shoes; that’s not friendship, it’s torture! He needed a serious clue by four. I realize he was a teenage boy and that comes with a certain amount of obliviousness and selfish immaturity, but he claimed Willow was his BFF, he couldn’t have been completely unaware of her feelings for him.
xander was willow best freind and he tried her like a best freind yes he talk about his crush with buffy so that what freidn DO, if she does nto want that then it up to her to deal with it.
buffy talk to xander about her feeling for angle, there no difference,
The fact that he fought alongside spike (lets be real he stood behind spike while spike fought) all summer then when buffy came back from the dead xander not only didn't tell him but was an ass about it too.
If the show got rebooted/continued today, Xander is one of the things that would need to be updated. Either they need to confront his personality (along with a few other characters) and have the flaws get addresed. Or I could see them making him gay like was the coin flip option and making Willow straight.
8:48 It was, There is an episode where he breaks into the base using his army knowledge,
Yeah but then in a later season when asked about his military memories he says that they're mostly gone.
@@GoeTeeks Huh, maybe it was fading slowly with him, who knows.
@@jeromelancashire3278 I mean, it was knowledge that was gained without any living memory or experience to back it up. If he wasn't using it or recalling it regularly, it wouldn't be much better than cramming for an exam the night before and forgetting it all the next week.
Wow dude... I've watched this show a dozen times, easily my favorite show of all time, and of course I've considered the problems with Xander for a long time, and I obviously knew the facts of the situation, like I was aware of the numbers, but I had never once actually considered the implications of Anya vs Xander's ages in the same way that I have with, let's say, Buffy and Angel. Like, for some reason that never "clicked" in my brain, if you see what I mean. I think you just made me recognize an internal bias I didn't realize that I had that I'm going to have to do some thinking about.
Well done, and also, I am your 420th subscriber. Nice.
I don't know... While it's true that Anya was a vengeance demon for far longer than Angel was around, she had no real growth during that time. She just went around, find women who were hurt by men, and giving them the option to seek their revenge. She basically lived the last few weeks of her life over and over and over. She didn't really learn much in the ways of emotional or intellectual growth. On the other hand, she DID have one failed marriage from her previous life to bring experience into.
@@GoeTeeksSee, but that is exactly the point I'm making. All Angel did was go around and drink people's blood, he wasn't growing as a person or trying to advance his understanding of human relationships, so he was still pretty close to his "human" age of 17ish when he met Buffy, right? By your argument, every single person who ever becomes a vampire does nothing except relive their earlier life, but he was definitely closer to humanity than Anya was and yet we don't consider his relationship to be in any way "worse" than Anya and Xander, right? And the question is, why is that the case? My point was that they both have a similar gap between their understandings of reality and their partner, but we still think of them as different for some reason, and honestly you kind of demonstrated my point perfectly.
@@lorehammer40k4 Angellous did way more than drink peoples' blood and stuff. He read books, saw plays, watched wars. He actually became very cultured, in his own demonic way. And it is very wrong. Pretty much any relationship based on old immortal to young person is wrong, but as long as they LOOK the same age, no one bats an eye. Also, Liam was 26-27 when he was bitten and turned to Angellous, so even by the ages they look, he's much older than Buffy. However, Anya just hung out in a demon void until she found someone who desired revenge.
You're not wrong. But in the case of Anya, she's really only a little more emotionally mature than Xander when they start dating. It's not... appropriate, but it's not really taking as much advantage of him as it would appear to be. I mean, look at how much growing up she had to do while dating him.
@@GoeTeeks Of course Angelus was 1000x times more cultured than Liam was, but to suggest he somehow had so much less experienced with human relationships than Anya did that it somehow justifies him having a relationship with Buffy while Anya and Xander is somehow different just seems absurd to me. I was saying that I had never considered the different between Anya and Xander in the same way that I had with Buffy and Angel, even though the numbers are similar, like, if Buffy had left Angel at the altar I would have reacted very differently, but I never stopped to think about why, ya know? That was the point of my comment.
Also, can I just say, thanks for talking with me about Buffy, that is waaaay to rare these days, so thank you ;) I really do appreciate it.
@@GoeTeeks And just to be totally clear, I think Anya and Angel both had to grow in a similar way in order to make their relationships work as well as they even did considering their own experiences, the point was just about how I reacted to them back when it happened, if you see what I mean. I think they're both honestly very similar, its just strange that I never realized that until I watched this video, if you see what I mean
In becoming pt2 he withheld information from her as she was going into battle. If Willow's spell hadn't have worked the planet would have been sucked into help because buffy was about to behead Angel and then how would they have closed Acatha's mouth? Also why would Buffy believe Xander's message about Willow for all these years when she had been the one to re-ensoul Angel?
Dead Man's Party, Partying Gifts, Revelations! When he and Willow were cheating on their S/O and Xander caught Buffy with Angel and ran back to for another meeting where Buffy is humiliated. Buffy really is too nice, she gives xander more grace than he deserves. She lets him be her friend when he's not really one at all. I remember him telling that dream to Willow about how Angel would disappoint her eventually and he would swoop in to save her and she would cry? He really has a weird thing about punishing women ...
Maybe Xander Harris suffered as a character because Nicholas Brandon just wasn't a very good actor. Everyone else in the cast was more talented than him, he seemed to just be dialing it in as the wise cracking side-kick, what wasn't very charismatic. I say 🎶the wrong kid died 🎶when it comes to Xander and the best friend (they never talk about) Jesse. IDK if it was true at the time but Eric Balfour is a stronger actor then Nicholas. if the actors swapped perhaps they would have given a stronger actor more to work with, like all of Xander's family drama.
Xander and Anya was a very weird ship to me. It seemed forced that she would be drawn to the ex of her last charge. Very weird. the yellow cayon moment and him giving buffy mouth to mouth was very forced into the narrative to give Xander a win, for me.
I love the point that the wrong kid died. I didn't like Xander back in the day, as an adult I find him really painful to watch. He had one really good moment with Dawn about not being the special one, but that's it.
buffy let agnlus kill people for mouth then run away treated her freind like shit.
sorry people should be attacking buffy not xander
Lol but he got an eyepatch, so that made him interesting!
Xander is a product of the times. By today's standards he absolutely would be considered a version of a 'nice guy' and all the negative connotations that implies.
He didn't develop a lot because they needed certain characteristics of his personality for the cast dynamics but at least he didn't get completely Flanderized.
(Joey from Friends got so dumbed down I began wondering how he got his shoes on without hurting himself 🙄)
Great insight in this video ⭐
Spike and Faith were my favourite characters on the show, of the Scooby Gang I liked Willow and Cordelia, hated what they did in later seasons of Angel with Cordy. I could see Willow having a supernatural spin-off today with Alyson Hannigan and real life husband Alexis Denisof as Wesley Wyndam-Price as the leads.
Also, after 25 years Willow could be at Dr. Strange and Scarlet Witch levels of magical abilities and Wesley would be a veteran demon slayer in his own right, it could have multiverses, time travel like Marvel and DC storylines, maybe cross over with Ash Williams of The Evil Dead. I'd watch it.
Xander was a jerk from the first episode. He had his moments, but overall, he is a poorly written character.
Absolutely loved this video! I've been a huge buffy fan for ages, and you brought up points about xander that I never thought about before.
I don’t hate Xander and I kind of think he’s the male version of Rory Gilmore. It’s not that he’s more flawed than other characters, it’s that his flaws are more normal, and a lot of people either see people they know IRL or sometimes even the less flattering parts of themselves in him.
Think about it. It’s hard to see yourself in Faith or Spike or Angel because they’re much more extreme characters who are btw all murderers. Even Giles and Andrew are killers. I think Xander does exhibit growth but it is a subtler kind, where he has to just live in his imperfections and accept that he’s not just not a superhero he’s also ordinary in the moral sense. Again he’s like Rory on Gilmore Girls who never gets that moment or obvious speech of owning her flaws but she just settles in the way most people do, being a person with ordinary levels of virtue. I think people don’t like characters who never have that cathartic change or revelation because it feels like bad storytelling but it’s real. People are sometimes like that.
I've always been a Xander-fan, but I have to acknowledge that my reasoning comes from a place of toxicity. I found him to be realistically relatable for those of us who have unrequited feelings for a friend, and are sincerely trying our hardest to not be an ass about it, but are simply too immature and ego-hurt to successfully pull it off.
I often dont like Xander. He has an unearned self righteousness when it comes to Buffy and her relationships. He often treated anya as less than. One thing i will point out though after raising two kids is he was always there to help with Dawn. Hed babysit, pick her up for school, give rides, and fix Buffys house millions of times. He never compained, refused, or asked for compensation. He jumped into any fight he was needed for until that stupid fracture in season 7. I guess hes like a butthole brother who always shows up when called.
I did not hate the Xander Harris character. However, his constant dumb jokes and sarcastic comments got on my nerves. I always wanted Buffy, the scooby gang, and Rupert Giles to tell him to cut it out. I remember a scene during which Giles had enough of Xander's comments and snapped at him, but quickly apologized. I thought, "don't apologize, Xander deserved it."
Zander showed his colors by basically threatening Buffy at the end of season 2 when Angelus was after Willow
You mean the first episode of season 2 when Buffy was acting like an immature brat and almost got everyone killed?
you mean first ep of season 2 when buffy was beign a bitch and almost got willow killed yea xadner was right.
At the time Riley told Xander that Buffy didn't love him, Joice had not yet become ill. That conversation took place at the end of season 5 episode 3...Joice started to become unwell in episode 5 . Buffy did not yet have that to deal with at this point
I'm in the camp of those that liked Xander well-enough back when I watched the show on air (30 years ago???) but really feel like you nailed all his character shortcomings. I will say that I never really liked him as much after the end of S2 and the beginning of S3, and his treatment of Anya (whom I loved) sealed the deal on my dislike of him.
Mhmm season 2 and seaon 3 Xander was rough. Very real but very rough
anya was 1000 year old xander 18
tell me if it was giles and dawn adn dawn treated giles like xander does anya would you be attacking Dawn.
people forget anya had the power in there realionship. she was FAR FAR FAR older and more powerfull
Because he's a Joss Whedon stand in and Joss fooled us all by claiming to be an ally to women while using his power to abuse women.
Realising Xander is Whedon's self insert, makes you understand alot about his character and the stories we've now heard about Whedon's attitude on set, especially towards SMG and fellow actresses.
I’ve found my new favourite channel 🤩
We love to hear it! Buckle up, we have a lot of fantasy discourse to get through lol
Looking forward to more videos! Subbed today and promptly binged every video you’ve made!❤
So glad you brought up Empty Places, I just watched it the other day and it infuriated me as usual, but this helped haha
It's amazing how the episode gets more infuriating as the years go on. lol I started making vids about that episode two years ago on tik tok and it makes me even more mad today
Such a good breakdown!
Thank you!
great video, you are definitely on the nose, thanks this needs to be put out there
I can't stand Xander (nor Riley). Xander is always trying to control, take something from, hide something from or get something from Buffy that he knows he shouldn't.
buffy the one trying to control and keep seceret
@@stevemyopinion423 Xander was a butthurt sad little man.He was in his feelings because Buffy didn't want to be with him.He obviously never heard the phrase There Are Other Fish In The Sea
You were on point with everything and addressed my biggest issues with Xander. The biggest being no accountability for his actions.
The only thing I'll disagree on slightly is when he lost his eye. They should not have kicked her out, or completely turn on her. But, as SOON as he got out of hospital, as soon as he was welcomed home, she wanted him back out and fighting. Like christ girl give it a minute!
Then Buffy tell.Xander only spike has my back. Buffy did not want a friend she wanted a follower
I make the case that Xander is more of a hero then Buffy.
Any a was a 1000 years old Xander 21.
If anya was a 50 year old ex hit man. Would you still defend Xander
Xander was right far more then Buffy was.
Everyone has so many good points! I don’t even have to write a comment 😂 but I will “allegedly” say Xander was suppose to be a surrogate for Mr. Joss whedon himself, so that’s gross and makes sense why Xander did some of the bad shit he shouldn’t have
Edit: So glad I ran into this channel! Definitely subbing!
He left Anya at the altar and then had the AUDACITY to be angry with Anya when she hooked up with Spike. Then, when he found out Buffy hooked up with Spike, he got mad at HER because....??? How DARE she not sleep with HIM first?!?! Smh...
Xander could have been like Sokka from Avatar. Starts out insufferable but learns. But he never ever learns and often is nasty to Buffy whenever Buffy is having a hard time. Willow enables him. I liked Willow- but then slowly, she became insufferable. Especially after she pulls Buffy out of heaven. She didn't even get her body out of the damn grave.
Xander was just so gross around Dawn. Especially since he later DATES DAWN in the comics.
Riley was insecure and projected his crap on Buffy. Dude saw his girlfriend get bit by freaking Dracula and got jealous.
Angel was creepy and I didn't like him COMPLETELY because he was stalking a 15 year old girl and then getting with her. It was just icky especially since, physically he's not even a teenager- like at least Edward was physically and mentally 17. Angel was 26 when he got turned. It's just so gross.
Spike, weirdly, was the most empathetic to Buffy's pain. Everyone else tried to make it all about them, while Spike actually tried to understand her, and understood her, and he's not getting with her while she's a child. (I loathe THAT episode). I honestly enjoyed his character development.
At first, I found Xander the bland, generic nice guy, then as a jilted guy-pal in the friend zone, to a hypocritical, petulant man-child. I don't know what the writers were thinking but they really screwed up with him.
becouse he was never hypocitral, and he was right most of the time
These are some good points. I can't remember all of the incidences you mention (it's been a while since I've seen the whole show), but I do remember feeling at times disappointed that they didn't go further exploring this character's issues. I don't know if that's the main problem people have with him, however. I think the real issue is that he ISN'T a hero--and that is why we may dislike him. Unlike Buffy, Willow, the vampires, etc. who begin ordinary, he begins and stays ordinary, never developing special powers, and resenting those who do, feeling inferior to them. In that way he does represent the audience, and in particular the unpopular teenage boy, who reads about exciting things but doesn't get to do them. ("Why am I everybody's butt monkey?") I think that is his role on the show, as "the fool"--part comic relief, part flawed character. I think he is one of the funniest characters, and the actor has naturally great comic timing. Not that he isn't heroic, but his heroism is that fact that he knows he has no special powers yet fights to help his friends regardless ("Just a frightened guy with a rock.") Do I wish the other characters and the show held more accountable? Yes. In a way, however, maybe he is held accountable by never being allowed to rise above the level of "ordinary putz."
I feel Xander is really just indicative of the whole show by the end. Practically every character has done some seriously sh*tty things by season 7 and is damaged beyond belief. It's one of the reasons why I don't like the UPN years and believe the show should've ended after season 5. The Gift wraps up everything. Buffy has literally defeated a god (how are you going to top that?), she's made the supreme sacrifice and the slayer cycle continues. It was the right denouement for the show. Except network execs with dollar signs in their eyes just couldn't leave well enough alone.
If you showed the kids of season 1 what they'd become in 5 to 6 years, they'd have been horrified. Willow is arrogant and an addict who's given a massive hit of her drug of choice at the end (I don't believe for a minute that making the girl who abused magic the most powerful magic wielder in the world would end well). Buffy is an emotionally deadened and broken person, going through the motions. Xander has borderline incel tendencies and never seems to learn any important life lessons. At the end of the day Xander is just an early symptom of the rot that infected and eventually killed the show for me. Which is a shame, because I wanted to like him. I'm usually on the side of the somewhat geeky everyman character, but every time I started to vibe with Xander he pulled some immature crap that had me wincing. You could come up with reasons for why he's so screwed up if you're feeling imaginative, like maybe the hyena never completely left him, or the soldier's memories messed him up somehow (especially if any of those memories included tours of duty in some quagmire like Vietnam). I've done this myself writing what-if fanfiction. But the sad fact is you don't need any of that to explain him. He's simply a product of his upbringing - the son of abusive alcoholics - and often struggles (and fails) to escape the confines of that mindset.
Y'know, I'm reminded of the very end scene of 'I Robot You Jane' where the three of them contemplate the prospect of never having a happy life. Gotta say, they called it.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. The show always struggled with character arcs. But the 5th season would have at least ended all of the storylines off on a high note. But the last 2 seasons destroyed any charm or character development any of the characters had.
No. Buffy's death in the end would defeat the show's premise. She was supposed to LIVE. NOT DIE young like all the other slayers did. Season 5 ending as the final series ending would've ruined the show forever. They could've done all the rest much better but any ending were Buffy ends alive and with a future is always better because it does her justice.
@@virz4432 No. You just WANT her alive because you like the character. Buffy didn't die from a vampire attack in season 5. She willingly sacrificed herself for her sister, Dawn. That's the perfect way to end the series. Because her entire personality throughout the show was her being forced to risk her life on a daily basis. By the end, she's grown so much that she's the one choosing to sacrifice her life for the greater good.
Maybe it's just me, but that's scary I lived so much about season 6.
It is bleak and depressing. Everyone's screwed up and traumatized and had problems.
But that felt real to me.
Maybe it's coz I also grew up in abuse and have had to worth through my own trauma, but that's solace in seeing characters that are a broken as you and struggling as much as you.
Season 6 is one of my faves for that reason.
Thankfully though, instead of going the faith route, I put in a ton of work to heal and move past everything.
But it's not like you forget. So I kind of like seeing characters that mirror the struggles I had.
What pisses me of about Xander though is that he never grew at all. It's exactly like you said, he never escaped his upbringing.
Even faith has her arc of atonement on angel. But Xander? He learns no lessons, never works on himself, and never grows.
xander show Zero incell tendencies
Xender symbolizes Buffy's feelings "the heart". He cannot develop further because he symbolizes all feelings and these are stupid. The fear, the anger, the insecurity, the jealousy. These feelings are always the same. They do not grow with you. They are always there. When Riley said that Buffy does not love him, Xender could not say anything. He is Buffy's feelings, she knew it/felt it but she did not want to admit it. In her heart she already knew it, but her heart was not allowed to say it.
I kinda got the impression that part of the reason Xander did not respond in that particular scene, was because he was probably caught off guard by Riley confiding in him about something so personal. Up to that point I think Xander viewed Riley as a friend, all around decent guy, and ally to the Scoobies. He might've even looked up to him somewhat, as a big brother type, but I'm not sure he was quite prepared to have a conversation with him about deep feelings.
(At least not until after they'd helped save the world together a couple more times.)
If he is her heart, why is he the least empathic of them all? He is only nice to dawn and as it turned out in the comics, he was grooming her.
What?!
@@BCBaronI think a bit of both work. Men not deep in feelings not prepared for it. Because all either guy's flaws, they are sensitive. Riley maybe more in the "what do you need" way and Xander "hey, thats hurtful" way. But also crushing his idea that Buffy could at least be into a guy he really sees qualities in and not revile. I mean theres a level of envy that is respect. Xander could respect Buffy dating Riley that he couldnt anyone else. Whether his humanity, physique, or down to earth kindness. But not so removed from himself either.
People get real weird around people they like while even they are dating someone else. No one benefits unless oblivious. So I can even see the terribleness towards Anya from the start, because while pretty, into him, they had sex, she wasnt what he would have chosen.
@@LiilliithhI know. Couldnt believe when I heard about that. 🤢
Also... why don't we ever talk about Xander's attempted SA in "The Pack" (It doesn't make it okay because Buffy is stronger). Sure he was possessed with a demon but it's a fact that he can look past in himself but not in others. Also, he admits he remembers it to Giles but he keeps it a secret. If you listen to JW's commentary he is always talking about the importance of "consequences" for actions .... Xander rarely see's consequences. Definitely a Joss POV.
let talk about buffy trieding to kill all of her freind how about buffy mom trieing to burn buffy at the stake.
no ok then stop blaming xander
xander does not blame angel for anglus he just does nto like angel and has NO reason to
15:13 Age doesn't not mean wisdom, Anya was not emotionally intelligent,
she was over a 1000 year old, you NEVER say that about a guy if giles was dating buffy at 16 you never say well he old but NOt emotionally intelligent so it ok.
@az21bob666 Buffy was dating a hundred year old guy at 16,
But that is not the point. the point is Anya was confused lost in a world she didn't understand after years of conditioning to believe one way when Xander found her.
try again anya was 1000 year old and she new far more of the world then xadner did and SHE went after him.
@az21bob666 A 1000 year old vengeance demon who after her husband cheated on her sort revenge when she met D'Hoffryn who taught her that human men were scum before giving her the powers to seek revenge on all men throughout countless centuries until she made a mistake and our favourite Watcher made her lose her powers and D'Hoffryn rejected her now seeing her as a worthless mortal, now lost in the world that she hardly knew she had no one until she met Xander, a mortal man who was nice, treated her well and for some inexplicable reason she couldn't understand she felt attracted to him eventually leading to her giving up her powers and eventually dying for him.
she did not give up her powers and she did not die for him
still a 1000 year old and he was 18
ooo yes agree 100%! and a lot of his flaws don't even seem to get recognised by the narrative/go unadressed (which links to the no growth point), which i think adds to it a lot as well
I’m so glad I found your channel! This was a really good analysis. I agree wholeheartedly.
Thank you! I'm glad you found my channel!
your Deep dive for this is on point and I have notes! lol I believe that Zander's character arc was Supposed to be exactly what became of Riley's minus the relationship with Buffy. Zander really should have been officially recruited into the Initiative and become the leader that he saw Riley as. It should have been Zander that left and returned to assist like we saw Riley do. Riley's character feels like it was actually where the Story of Zander was headed. Before the network change and the 2 extra seasons were suddenly added after it was unofficially drop by the (WB) maybe that is what Changed...
I definitely agree that Riley feels very much like what Xander could've or should've been. I think that's why Xander identified with him so much. Riley is literally the trajectory Xander was on (s1-s3) but never go there.
What bothered me was in the comics he started dating Buffy's sister Dawn I thought he was doing it to get back at Buffy then Buffy says she's interested in him. I'm like "What? You friendzoned this guy & now you want to date him? Keep your dignity girl." Riley I never liked I was like "Get this guy off the show he's annoying af." Xander was annoying to me too I never hated him he just spent several years chasing a girl who wasn't interested in him he was so jealous of Angel & then Spike for getting Buffy's love attention. Like Ryan said Xander went behind Buffy's back secretly probably to punish Buffy for not giving him the time of day.
So what you're saying is you never date someone after you friendzoned them because you'd lose your dignity? Wow! ^^
@@mori1bund No I wouldn't.
The closest Xander got to self actualizing was the double episode, where his "strong" half went out to get the job while the "wimpy" half held onto all of Xander's anxiety and weakness. Almost sad that they came back together. That being said, I never hated Xander, but every rewatch he gets more cringe.
Whedon always said that he modeled Xander after himself... I wonder if that's why there wasn't much growth while Whedon was with the show. Since he was more consumed with Angel during Buffy's final two seasons, I feel the writers, tried to do a little bit by making Xander more mature with the construction job and with his 'mature guy' talks with Dawn and Willow.
"Whedon always said that he modeled Xander after himself.." and Whedon hates himself.
I have to say something about Empty Places. That's actually the least antagonistic he'd been towards her. Usually, he lays into her, but this time, all he said was two sentences and was completely subdued. Everyone else (minus Faith) said a lot worse.
I think my problem with Xander comes down to Brendon. Joss prefers comic actors who can do drama, since so much of his writing is centered on witty banter. Brendon is a decent comic actor, but not up to par with most of the rest of the cast for dramatic acting. I suspect if Eric Balfour (Jesse) and Brendon had switched roles, with Balfour portraying Xander throughout the series run, I'd like Xander a lot more.
Balfour has had pretty consistent work over the years, and I'm not sure he would have wanted to be "stuck" on Buffy so I don't know if it could have happened, but he has the acting chops to add depth to the role. Joss likes Brendon, but I suspect Balfour would have opened up his writing pallete for Xander and we would have seen a more complex and richer character.
Then again, I just may not see what Brendon brings to the table, and it's just a matter of taste in acting style.
Xander was pretty progressive as a teenage female friend in 97-99. But the thing is, other shows went farther with it very quickly and by 00, we had stuff like Smallville doing it way better and Xander just never grew past "progressive for 97". Every year that passes for the audience, ages his jokes a lot worse (comedy does age the fastest and he was the comic releif)
what are you talking about clark and ovler did worse stuff then xander
I watched Buffy live and it was great, then I was rewatching DVDS of Angel and it forced me to go back and rewatch Buffy episodes and it definitely hit different when you werent immersed in it. Maybe I need to check it out again. I will say the Season 8 comic book was great.
I thought Xander was going to be the 2nd smartest kid after Williow but he's a complete loser. Thing I hated most about Xander he was just too immature for me. His parents also did'nt seem to care for him much which probably affected the way he act. I thought he got shot at the end of season 6 the way he fell but it was Buffy who was shot. The actor even worst then Xander.He beat up his girlfriend, so it makes me hate the character more.
I watched Buffy when it first aired, so I never really got into the fanbase or knew that other fans hate Xander. Okay. I always liked him. He was a pretty average guy from the 1990s. I probably should rewatch the show and see what the kids these days are objecting to. Enjoyed your video! Always nice to see young people talking about shows I loved in my younger years. :)
I've been watching BTVS consistently since the first day it aired and I have to say it ages amazingly well as far as commentary on life goes. I support you rewatching. You'll be happy you did!
There's a number of points in the show where Xander's friends have an opportunity to hold him accountable and never do, and I don't blame Buffy and Willow that much because they were really young and still figuring stuff out, navigating their own complicated issues, but Giles, the adult in the room, definitely could have done more. He always treated Xander like an irritation instead of a kid who needed some guidance. That's what was missing when he jilted Anya. He was so afraid of repeating his family's patterns because that's all that had been modeled to him, and he was lacking positive adult role models.
buffy and willow did FAR FAR FAR worse stuff and there never held accountable for it.
i mean what did xander really do, lie to buffy to save the world and make a few sex joke that willow and buffy were ok with.
@@stevemyopinion423 someone's overidentifying
not i not a hero,
but i put xander bad moment vs buffy and willow and he come out better then both of them.
Xander was supposed to come to the realization that he was gay. If you go back to the first 2 seasons you can see it bubbling in the background. But then the writers scrapped that storyline and gave it to Willow when Oz left. They were like we can't have 2 gay main characters and they didn't know what to do with him.
That would be have made him more interesting and bolder man living in his truth .
@@chaliceofchangehighly disagree
As a gay man i am glad they never went with it.
I already hate the ‘realization’ bs cus thats just hetero pov of what being gay is. Furthermore it would’ve painted being gay as something you become/acquire rather than born being gay which is age old religious homophobia.
The show also always painted the always implicit gay men as incredibly negative and cowardly, you can see they wouldnt have been able to write a gay male character because like so many they either do not see gay men as human beings or they just don’t care about them.
Xander also had an infatuation with buffy, a relationship with cordelia, an affair with willow and was assaulted by faith for his 1st time whereas willow had a crush on xander and a slow natural paced relationship with oz even tho i still do not like turning gay storylines even with willow with xander it would have actually demanded a complete suspension of belief and would have pushed for homophobic/pro c.therapy rhetoric and would have been extremely creepy all around to me. I also believe jw reasons to not make willow was cowardly and a very poor excuse i personally always saw her as bi but with a heavy lean towards women so they clearly only were able to write them by the skin of their teeth. Also they mention it when tara talks to willow about her relationship to magic/lesbianism as just college experiences and instead of willow trying to understand tara and reassure her she blamed tara and got defensive (which ngl typical bi reaction in this situation). Also people don’t like to hear but people give less leeway and less scrutiny to lesbians than gay men thats probably why they choose willow and were able to write them better than they could even write alleged gay male one off characters.
I love btvs forever but they’d never have the ability to write gay male characters with the same consideration and respect as any other groups.
we dodged a bullet.
A lot of fans forget about the first episode of "Welcome to the Hellmouth". Xander's best friend Jesse is killed by a vampire, it affects him on a life changing level. He hates vampires, they take away his best friend and he (in his eyes) loses the girl of his dreams to one. Buffy falling for a vampire instead of him had to hurt on a different level because it shows that she'd rather be with a dead man than Xander. I'm not saying it's healthy or right, but it's human. He has a very unhealthy home life with an alcoholic father(who probably cheats on his wife) and is probably not just mentally but physically abusive. So he didn't have the best example growing up on what a healthy relationship should be. He could have been Warren, but instead is grounded because he has good people around him and decides to fight the good fight, even if he is the zeppo and doesn't always get credit. Buffy's a slayer/warrior, Willow is a powerful witch, Giles is intelligent and wise, Xander is just human but does the right thing because it's the right thing to do.
There was supposed to be instead of Dawn in conversations with dead people, Xander being visited by Jesse, but they couldn't get the actor. It's the only episode you don't see Xander in. I really wished they could have had that story in that episode because I think it would have been a great closure or arch for Xander.
Xander is problematic at times, but still has a good heart. He's flawed but will still have his friend's backs no matter what. He will be there through their worsts just like they will be there for his. I agree, it can be hard to like him at times(mine being him telling buffy to kick angel's ass) but he's still a great character.
The Conversations with Dead People point would have elevated that episode even more into my favorites if not #1, which I think it already is. But Dawn's part always felt, off.
I do think we can find bitterness with Xander though. If you swap vampire with football player, friend killed by a player driving drunk, but Buffy dates another player. Then his assault by Faith, another slayer, probably, based on his character up to that point, reinforced some anger towards Buffy, that they use guys like him. You want a girl, she dates the guys you have generalized hate for (ignoring that vampires are inherit killers), and a girl just like her assaults you as your first intimate encounter.
My problem was always how he ralied against her every chance, interfered with her romantic life every chance. Made her life putting him in harms way, but being butthurt when left out. Willow didnt want to be left out, but cant remember her being resentful at Buffy when she got hurt.
I've done videos on tiktokabout Xander's undiscussed trauma from what happened with Jesse but the reality is it's not that fans forget it, it's never addressed. That's another example of the ways the show completely overlooked a moment to develop/add nuance to Xander's character.
I did always find it strange how Xander and Willow would frequently reference their childhood friendship and NEVER mention Jesse. Like was he really THAT close of a friend, or was a more recent addition?
Don't hate him at all, neither does the wife.
Same. Xander did a lot of things over the years that I didn't like, but I didn't hate him for it. He was living a pretty horrifying life in Sunnyvale, probably too scared to even question why he didn't run for the hills much less work to try to improve himself. He coped most of the time by joking, changing the subject, and just acting without thinking. An average person probably would react the way he did in that show. He never got powers that stayed, wasn't part of any super organizations that backed him like Giles (Watchers Council) or Riley (military), or had anything to give him a sense of self worth. Oh, and his family life sucked. He was just this regular person surrounded by amazing people feeling less than them 24/7. He could be a jerk at times, but he was also likeable and he cared. He wanted to help, but that was a crazy place and a lot to ask of someone with no special resources. He was young, dumb, and scared, but also hopeful, well intentioned, and willing to try. I liked him.
he's a self insert Joss based character so no surprise he didn't age too well, considering...
I think Joss said that he really didn't have anything for the Xander character to do in the later seasons and it showed.
Whedon said Xander was him in high school, and it looks like he very mistakenly left out of development.
Yeah, and it's really weird they didn't address the rape episode.
the reason i hate him is because you can tell he is obviously a joss whedon self insert
The comics didnt do his character any favors either. Dating Dawn gives me the creeps.