Smash ultimate does have directional/motion inputs to a certain extent. IRAR/RAR bairs and B-reversed specials are a type of directional input. Heavy punch/kick are similar to smash attacks, medium punch/kick are similar to tilt attacks, and light punch/kick are similar to jabs. The games are more similar than we might think they are, but that’s just my observation.
Only on a surface level. Damage is the closest thing in which they are actually similar but they are functionally completely different. Lights in traditional fighters are combo starters and often + on block to allow for block strings (a form of pressure) and can be used to poke with. You can't poke with jabs in smash, are not used in combos by 90% of the cast and can't be used for block strings either except for, you guessed it, Ryu, Ken and Terry's jab because they are designed to play like traditional fighter character. Mediums and tilts are somewhat similar; both are used for pokes and combo's though most tilts are not safe on shield while most mediums are. Mediums are still typically much faster in both startup and total frames making which makes tilts less spammable Smash attacks are way slower and way unsafer than heavy attacks in traditional fighters. They're more comparable to special moves in many cases than generic heavy attacks. They're also much stronger so they're functionally completely different. Heavies can be used as part of poking/walling out where that is impossible with smash attacks. Start up is often 9-12 for a heavy where smash attacks are typically 15-23 (some exceptions of course), and have much more total frames making them super easy to whiff punish even on low level, where heavies are very spammable on low level. Heavies are slightly more hard hitting tilts with more slightly more range, startup and endlag but compared to smash attacks/tilts they are much more similar RAR is not really like motion inputs because RAR is a move sequence composed of basic moves. It's dash (hold stick forward) --> back dash (hold stick backward) --> Jump (jump button (X/Y) )--> back-air (hold stick Forward + A). The game doesn't check if you input an arbitrary motion before it lets you perform a RAR, it are the necessary actions to perform that action. Difference is there is no arbitrary input barrier, it's a sequence of individually performed moves.
@@Bladieblah I feel that you’ve demonstrated the veracity of much of my statement for me, and I’m unsure if you understood the full extent of my statement or if I’m misunderstanding your response. For instance, when I compared lights to jabs, I didn’t mean they worked the exact same way but in just enough of a way that they’re comparable. The same goes for mediums and heavies. They’re obviously not the exact same, and you can only transfer a small amount of combo options from jabs, tilts, and smash attacked to your combo options from light, medium, and heavy attacks, but they have enough similarity to be reasonably compared. In my statement about RAR/IRAR, i mentioned that they’re a TYPE of motion input, not that they’re A motion input. The striking difference is the way in which you execute them, but they do have the necessary multi-directional inputs needed in order to execute said moves. You can’t input a RAR bair without inputting forward, neutral, back, neutral forward. You have to move the control stick in more than one direction to get the proper execution or the game thinks you’ve done something else. Its the same thing in street fighter which functions primarily on directional inputs. My main point is simply that smash has a lot more in common with games like street fighter than one may seem to think from first glance. All in all, I don’t think we really disagree all that much if at all. It seems we’re really interpreting the same data slightly differently, but thats my take on your response.
Well it depends on how braindead that ken actually is,those with the brain the size of a peanut you find online are easy to beat once you catch on the fact that They all play same and they Will all try to go for the same things
@@rstada8 Except Armada is not the champion anymore. He still thinks he's the best even though he doesn't play. Players like Leffen was adapting to him and beating him consistently in recent years. Armada was just really good at peach + crouch cancelling which dominated the meta for years. Players like Zain, Mango, and Leffen would WRECK Armada today. I would argue Mango has the mentality of a champion because his ego isn't out of control like Armadas'
@@stayontrack Sure Armada won more than Mango but Armada is no goat. Armada's stream + twitter exposed him as an egomaniac that does whatever it takes to win meanwhile Mango is a passionate high school drop out that just loves Melee. Mango's personality is so much better than Armada's that's why he is the goat.
This was a nice watch. Though I'd have appreciated the video you reacted to being featured somewhere whether a pinned comment or the description. Otherwise not a fan of reaction videos.
I think the best thing for melee would be a wavedash button. However, the button gives you a suboptimal distance that you cannot control. If you want the max distance wavedash you must actually input it and angle the stick properly. This would let people waveshine, ledgedash, and grab ledge easier, while not decreasing the skill ceiling.
being able to screw up wavedash makes me feel more involved in the game. day9s brood war rant about the game being hard appealing more to the commander fantasy gels with me. also some people are better at wavedashing than others, which makes it a skill to me. the only thing stopping people from abusing the shit out of ledgedash is the risk
@@raghavpatel720 the buffer in ultimate feels terrible, i dont know why anyone would want a buffer. plus this isnt like a normal fighting game, where buffering a 720 command grab matters. u just press a direction and press A or B, completely unnecessary to buffer that. plus alot of people love practicing SHFFL, it's therapeutic for melee players.
11:00 Actualyt there are stuff like that in smash, motion input s on Ryyu, Ken and Terry (even his charge inputs) can be done with directional inputs, but you get weak versions (DPs/raising tackle have no invencibility with directional inputs for example)
MARVEL VS CAPCOM 2 AND MELEE THE GOATS. Always appreciate the way you look at things Adam. you probably know this, but Justin actually has really good rushdown in mvc2. He does play safe, but he definitely knows how to lay it on and the execution bar in mvc2 is high. I'm sure he'd have a great fox/falco/sheik/marth. Lol probably marth/falco
I kind of disagree with the flow part of the video but that is not that important right now I enjoyed watching this video for the third time this time with additional commentary And noticed some interesting things like When he mentions system 2 becoming automatic you see the example with the console and the clock he used earlier in the background And i spotted tasteless at 22:36 which i hadnt noticed before
The problem is that in sf5 you can't truly "figure out solutions" to this, it's not like you can go ahead and jump on the platforms, bait on the ledge, run, mix up your movement effectively -sf5 isn't smash :/ you're locked on that 2D plane and fucked being eaten by chip damage
You totally can. Eventually they'll use a move that is unsafe or maybe they'll expect you to do something different on wakeup. They might try a jumping attack or a reactible overhead that you can punish. You might have meter for a super or an invincible ex move. They might go for a grab and you tech out and hit them with a long range move. Point is, you can figure out how do deal with whatever they want to. It might not be the same as the smash example. But there are plenty of ways to lab.
I think that adding the option to do a hard thing in an easy way would actually make it more complicated and less accessible, the more options there are the less accessible imo
I've watched all of Core A Gamings main videos twice. His videos are amazing.
Me, who has watched all his videos at least 5 times, "pathetic"
edit: typo
Smash ultimate does have directional/motion inputs to a certain extent. IRAR/RAR bairs and B-reversed specials are a type of directional input. Heavy punch/kick are similar to smash attacks, medium punch/kick are similar to tilt attacks, and light punch/kick are similar to jabs. The games are more similar than we might think they are, but that’s just my observation.
Only on a surface level. Damage is the closest thing in which they are actually similar but they are functionally completely different.
Lights in traditional fighters are combo starters and often + on block to allow for block strings (a form of pressure) and can be used to poke with. You can't poke with jabs in smash, are not used in combos by 90% of the cast and can't be used for block strings either except for, you guessed it, Ryu, Ken and Terry's jab because they are designed to play like traditional fighter character.
Mediums and tilts are somewhat similar; both are used for pokes and combo's though most tilts are not safe on shield while most mediums are. Mediums are still typically much faster in both startup and total frames making which makes tilts less spammable
Smash attacks are way slower and way unsafer than heavy attacks in traditional fighters. They're more comparable to special moves in many cases than generic heavy attacks. They're also much stronger so they're functionally completely different. Heavies can be used as part of poking/walling out where that is impossible with smash attacks. Start up is often 9-12 for a heavy where smash attacks are typically 15-23 (some exceptions of course), and have much more total frames making them super easy to whiff punish even on low level, where heavies are very spammable on low level.
Heavies are slightly more hard hitting tilts with more slightly more range, startup and endlag but compared to smash attacks/tilts they are much more similar
RAR is not really like motion inputs because RAR is a move sequence composed of basic moves. It's dash (hold stick forward) --> back dash (hold stick backward) --> Jump (jump button (X/Y) )--> back-air (hold stick Forward + A). The game doesn't check if you input an arbitrary motion before it lets you perform a RAR, it are the necessary actions to perform that action. Difference is there is no arbitrary input barrier, it's a sequence of individually performed moves.
@@Bladieblah I feel that you’ve demonstrated the veracity of much of my statement for me, and I’m unsure if you understood the full extent of my statement or if I’m misunderstanding your response. For instance, when I compared lights to jabs, I didn’t mean they worked the exact same way but in just enough of a way that they’re comparable. The same goes for mediums and heavies. They’re obviously not the exact same, and you can only transfer a small amount of combo options from jabs, tilts, and smash attacked to your combo options from light, medium, and heavy attacks, but they have enough similarity to be reasonably compared.
In my statement about RAR/IRAR, i mentioned that they’re a TYPE of motion input, not that they’re A motion input. The striking difference is the way in which you execute them, but they do have the necessary multi-directional inputs needed in order to execute said moves. You can’t input a RAR bair without inputting forward, neutral, back, neutral forward. You have to move the control stick in more than one direction to get the proper execution or the game thinks you’ve done something else. Its the same thing in street fighter which functions primarily on directional inputs. My main point is simply that smash has a lot more in common with games like street fighter than one may seem to think from first glance. All in all, I don’t think we really disagree all that much if at all. It seems we’re really interpreting the same data slightly differently, but thats my take on your response.
Armada Reacts are the best reacts
He's the ML7 of smash
Video: "Flowchart Ken is good enough to win tournaments"
Armada, the 2000 IQ who doesn't play the game: "Just adjust my dudes"
Armada has the mentality of a champion
Well it depends on how braindead that ken actually is,those with the brain the size of a peanut you find online are easy to beat once you catch on the fact that They all play same and they Will all try to go for the same things
@@rstada8 Except Armada is not the champion anymore. He still thinks he's the best even though he doesn't play. Players like Leffen was adapting to him and beating him consistently in recent years. Armada was just really good at peach + crouch cancelling which dominated the meta for years. Players like Zain, Mango, and Leffen would WRECK Armada today. I would argue Mango has the mentality of a champion because his ego isn't out of control like Armadas'
I see you've been brainwashed well by mango propaganda and the leff podcast
@@stayontrack Sure Armada won more than Mango but Armada is no goat. Armada's stream + twitter exposed him as an egomaniac that does whatever it takes to win meanwhile Mango is a passionate high school drop out that just loves Melee.
Mango's personality is so much better than Armada's that's why he is the goat.
This was a nice watch. Though I'd have appreciated the video you reacted to being featured somewhere whether a pinned comment or the description. Otherwise not a fan of reaction videos.
Man, Rest in Peace to BrolyLegs. Such an impressive player
Shucks I really wanted to him to hear Justin’s story of arcade thuggery.
I've been waiting for this for a long time.
For some reason watching Q-Bert use anti-air cr.hp got me hype. Download complete.
You should link the videos he's reacting to in the description.
I think the best thing for melee would be a wavedash button. However, the button gives you a suboptimal distance that you cannot control. If you want the max distance wavedash you must actually input it and angle the stick properly. This would let people waveshine, ledgedash, and grab ledge easier, while not decreasing the skill ceiling.
being able to screw up wavedash makes me feel more involved in the game. day9s brood war rant about the game being hard appealing more to the commander fantasy gels with me. also some people are better at wavedashing than others, which makes it a skill to me. the only thing stopping people from abusing the shit out of ledgedash is the risk
How about a 9 frame buffer window for melee? That would not hurt the game but it would lower the skill floor which is healthy imo
@@raghavpatel720 the buffer in ultimate feels terrible, i dont know why anyone would want a buffer. plus this isnt like a normal fighting game, where buffering a 720 command grab matters. u just press a direction and press A or B, completely unnecessary to buffer that. plus alot of people love practicing SHFFL, it's therapeutic for melee players.
@@raghavpatel720 thats an awful idea. 3 frame at most
11:00
Actualyt there are stuff like that in smash, motion input s on Ryyu, Ken and Terry (even his charge inputs) can be done with directional inputs, but you get weak versions (DPs/raising tackle have no invencibility with directional inputs for example)
MARVEL VS CAPCOM 2 AND MELEE THE GOATS. Always appreciate the way you look at things Adam. you probably know this, but Justin actually has really good rushdown in mvc2. He does play safe, but he definitely knows how to lay it on and the execution bar in mvc2 is high. I'm sure he'd have a great fox/falco/sheik/marth. Lol probably marth/falco
The only way I consider myself consistent at something is if I can do it 10 times in a row.
8:10, why did he put the episode in spanish? I was very confused because I speak spanish
How did this video get so little traction? Awesome video.
Meta hasn't changed
Mang0 is a system 1 kinda guy
Armada plays other fighting games?
React to Daryl Talks Games' "When Rage-Quitting Helps".
What is "Air Blanking"? 19:10
What was the outro music
I kind of disagree with the flow part of the video but that is not that important right now
I enjoyed watching this video for the third time this time with additional commentary
And noticed some interesting things like When he mentions system 2 becoming automatic you see the example with the console and the clock he used earlier in the background
And i spotted tasteless at 22:36 which i hadnt noticed before
I predict before watching, armada will disagree
The problem is that in sf5 you can't truly "figure out solutions" to this, it's not like you can go ahead and jump on the platforms, bait on the ledge, run, mix up your movement effectively -sf5 isn't smash :/ you're locked on that 2D plane and fucked being eaten by chip damage
You totally can. Eventually they'll use a move that is unsafe or maybe they'll expect you to do something different on wakeup. They might try a jumping attack or a reactible overhead that you can punish. You might have meter for a super or an invincible ex move. They might go for a grab and you tech out and hit them with a long range move.
Point is, you can figure out how do deal with whatever they want to. It might not be the same as the smash example. But there are plenty of ways to lab.
i love these videos :)
I think that adding the option to do a hard thing in an easy way would actually make it more complicated and less accessible, the more options there are the less accessible imo
0:01 can u put it a little higher
Armada KING of melee for me you are the best why you dont play with M2K
First
Yo @Armada !!! Grats on your mario64 pb !!!
Audio is good my guy lol
Play melee