Two HEMA instructors comment on dual wielding swords
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- Without a doubt dual wielding was nowhere near as popular in historical times as it is in roleplaying games and other fantasy settings. How common or rare it was depends on the specific period and region but it was certainly done, mostly using a longer blade in the main hand and a shorter one in the off hand.
To get a professional opinion I asked Richard Marsden and Lee Smith, two of the most respected and skilled instructors of Historical European Martial Arts, what they think about this topic. Of course the perspective of practitioners of various Eastern martial arts may differ.
worksofrichardm...
www.phoenixswor...
www.bloodandiro...
********************************************************************************
My favorite online store for buying swords (worldwide shipping):
ww4.aitsafe.com...
Some recommended knife makers on Amazon:
www.amazon.com/...
Want to help fund future videos?
/ skallagrim
My Facebook page:
/ skallagrimyt
Dual wielding long swords can be effective with proper technique. You have to hold one of the swords backwards and then you start spinning around like a beyblade. Works every time in anime and videogames.
This is my special technique... LET IT RIP!
I still want to believe that it is possible
Starburst stream
Levi's God Mode.
Haha
Everyone talks about dual wielding swords while ignoring the greatness of dual wielding shields.
There is a secret agreement not to talk about it. Its power is so great that even the gods fear it.
Fire giant dreadnought has entered the chat.
There are funny pathfinder builds. Shield bash moves an enemy and that gives you an attack of opportunity leading to another shield bash.
Imagine Captain America with two Shields now imagine a dark Captain America with two Shields and Blades around the rims of The Shield you can even think bigger some people even have spare tips on the front of their Shields so yeah I can see a lot of potential in it but also a lot of downfall as well but everyone has to remember any idea has repercussions behind it no matter what you do do well towards sword and shield just a sword they all have their cons and Pros
@@Valsorayu i love the idea of dual wielding shorter more narrow shields and using them like boxing weapons, the biggest drawbacks are they're clunky af and heavy too
It's harder to unscrew the pommel if you have a sword in each hand.
Unless you're dual wielding pommels.
xD
This will never get old
I'm new to this channel and I have never been able to properly practice HEMA, and I still find this joke hilarious every time I see it. XD
So, did that really become a fking meme? XD
"I need this liver to drink, Richard."
+Cody Dale You need to go to the top, sir
My thoughts exactly
I don't get it? :(
Deniz Taylan During the video Richard puts his implement up against the other guys stomach. Other guys says the above.
oh thanks a lot fam
When I fight,I dual wield two shortswords and throw them at opponent simultenously. That often gives me the 2 second advantage for the chase he will be giving afterwards. Still,I am a good runner and me being alive is the proof of that.
You must be going through short swords like toilet paper! How do you afford it?
Plot Twist.. he's a blacksmith
+RelapseGalore55 being a blacksmith is a expensive hobby, just saying.
Using assault rocks would be cheaper. That is until the government bans them.
God this is such an underrated comment.
is a beard required for membership?
ballisticgelatin seems like 70% of HEMA enthusiasts have some kind of facial hair, an uncommon hairstyle, a ponytail and sometimes are a bit overweight.
P.S. I am not complaining about people looks :p
ballisticgelatin I've done some statistics on this and it seems that having a beard makes you a better fighter. Science suggests it has something to do with air resistance.
ballisticgelatin it's required to be a part of the french foreign legion sappers if i remember correctly
ballisticgelatin Yes, to join you must look bad ass, thats why so many of them have beards.
+Bashfulfruit I cant grow a proper beard what can i do?
What about throwing two pommels at once?
Zomx Made my day :D
Zomx That would most certainly end him rightly
Zomx That's just overkill, a single pommel should be enough to kill a grown man
Zomx that would be like throwing a nokia at the planet from orbit it would end this solar system rightly
Zomx The Pommel joke is never gonna go away is it
I alway take a thrusting weapon with my ultra greatsword.
Wait this isn't a Dark Souls video...
Real life you say? Is that on Steam?
+ButtCatt real life is the Dark,young hollow...
+ButtCatt Real life ? Never heard of that server
+Jastfast It's shit, there isn't enough gold, the tutorial is 20+ years long, and there are hackers everywhere.
Zachary Brooks Wow, 20 years of tutorial ? I bet most of the time, after 20 years, you still can't do shit xD
+Zachary Brooks i agree its awefull... you can press B as mutch as you want but that tank doenst flip, you cant just take other peapos stuff and sometimes the playerchar has some awefull bugs...
What about duel wielding shields?
Than your basically Boxing.
Sure thing... as long as you have pommels in your shields for some righlty ends.
+raynaldo arlen k.eman make em kite sheilds and sharpen the points
that works! if the enemy gets his weapon even stuck for half a second in ur shield, u can bash him in the face, u know: if he only has a weapon, u just push with both shields and hope he cuts/stabs himself when you push back his sword... one of my friends used this in D&D as a normal fighting technique... it worked until he had to kill a giant lol
There are techniques where you hit them with your shield, though I imagine having a blade is a better option.
I'd have to disagree with this video. Duel wielding two pommels doubles both your efficiency AND your probability of ending him rightly.
yes, though if you have one pommel on a shorter blade you can avoid the tangled twins problem!
Vincent P two pomels is the way to go who needs blades?
To carry the pommels with. It's 'fashionable'.
Plus, once you're done with your foe, you can juggle right over his corpse as a sign of ultimate disrespect.
Nope i disagree
For the record Skall, the subtitles are really appreciated. I know it takes a good bit of time to put them in without good software.
Dainty Canadian
Yeah, I normally avoid it because it takes several hours more per video but when the audio quality is bad that's just necessary.
Skallagrim hey, first off I really liked the video. You guys seem to know what you're talking about. That's why i want to ask you, if fighting with a sword in one hand and an axe/tomahawk in the other one is efficent or not?
Some clarifications!
We are a HEMA group, so our focal point is Europe and our mention of Musashi was trying to make a connection. There ARE dual wield (two sword) systems (Persia/Turkey/India/China/etc.), but we don't think they were common in Europe. You can, as we noted, find them in treatises, but you more often do not find them.
There are red cars. Go outside and look around, how many red cars do you see? A lot, or a few? I think it's more along those lines.
There is arguments about the common or uncommon nature of it.
My own view is uncommon. Too hard to carry, too hard to draw them both, too hard to use with skill, not common in period artwork. Done, yes. Common, I do not believe so.
There is a european dual wield system also. It is roman but I forget its name. Gladiators were famous for using it as dual wielding is better for duels (as opposed to war).
@@conradk.3098 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimachaerus
Richard Marsden I believe you are correct only because of your HEMA guidelines and training, other culture fighters trained in different movements and various techniques to make it flow, ofc you feel awkward you’ve never trained with two swords..
Yea but his most famous duel was won with a single oar :)
I agree it doesnt seem as common in the west as compaired to the sword and companion sword school. As was mentioned a sword spent im gonna say 94% of its time in the scabbard.. As for the Ending him rightly ive always taken that to mean you finish your adversary in a manner that doesnt allow disgrace and suffering
Reverse grip dual wielding is obviously the way to go
NorwegianChris Tonfas to be fair...
+NorwegianChris If you're trying to climb a glacier, sure.
It gets your swords out of the way of each other, but the attacking motion takes longer. I would actually have one held normally and the other held reversed, so one sword is in a good attack position, while the other is better for defense. But the reverse grip does make for some very sneaky counterattacks.
NorwegianChris But you have to do the normal dual wielding first and then, when you see that your opponent is to strong, you change your grip to the exotic one and somehow beat him with your shorter reach and weaker hits! Best movie tactic ever.
+NorwegianChris
It is done in Chinese styles. It's just that you don't really cut as much as your throw elbow strikes that happen to cut as well.
But zero reach, zero battlefield potential.
What about a battle that breaks out at the food-bar of the Sizzler? Would I be better off wielding salad tongs with my dominant hand and a smaller nimble weapon such as butter-knife in my left? Or should I go with an off-hand weapon that will give me more reach, like a soup ladle?
That surprisingly made me giggle
+Ed Harley You, sir, earned another like. PS- go for a bread knife in dominant hand, salad tongs in sinister, to catch a blade.
^explanation^ Dexter is right (or dominant), Sinister is left (or offhand). I don't know why I bother remembering that. I'm ambidextrous.
+baconsoap I'm not sure if it's relevant but it's cool nonetheless, in the old roots of language (I don't know which language it's from), "ambidextrous" literally means "having two right hands," and sinister was a near synonym for deceptiveness or being different. Just for anyone who's interested in language.
I think it's some kind of anglicized Latin. Reeeally old English roots.
What about dual-wielding shovels? Naturally with shields attached to both shovels...
Not if you attach firearms to both shovels too :P checkmate
+gsimon123 i duel wield cannons works far better tbh :P
Danny Barks Have you ever duct taped swords all over your body in an outward facing formation? Strongest historical medieval technique bar none. It is called the porcupine defense
gsimon123 dam never tried that i always thought my double cannon tactic was the best with out a shadow of a doubt , but after reading this ultimate technique i can tell that the defense of it would counter my cannon balls so flawlessly. As if i shot a cannon ball at it , the swords would just slice it to pieces before hitting the body , but no wonder i never heard of it my cannon Sensei (master) did say . "They is a legendary technique that requires swords all over your body , but only the chosen 1's can pull it off . And you must find the mysterious Sensei (master) as he is the only 1 who can teach it". :P
Danny Barks Hey don't worry about it. Rookie mistake ;)
When I first started being a warrior I didn't think wrist mounted slingshots were more effective when strapped to your shins instead. Live and learn.
He didn't specify in which parry frame we're supposed to attack to get more time and damage for the riposte attack, though.
Winged Ikaros That's because Dark Souls 3 is still in development, duh. They might change the values yet.
Just roll away.
I don't understand why they don't buff their weapons before the duels
Winged Ikaros you dont parry
you backstab
casual scrub
***** That's why you ninja flip.
Dual wield half swording?
Kuba Jankowiak
Maybe if you have four arms, like Goro.
Kuba Jankowiak hahaha how would you ever think that THAT would be possible? xD
I can't even imagine it.
Kuba Jankowiak Half-swording pretty-much requires two-hands, so if you're only putting half the hands when you're half-swording, does that make it quarter-swording?
MrAmazing21399 Right hand holds both hilts, left hand holds both blades ^^
With the same logic, triple-wielding-half swording and quadra-wielding-half swording become possible..You don't even need more than two arms in your way to martial godhood!
Will Gravis By jove, he's got it!
Men, grab your longswords and follow me to the Holy Land!
So... Anyone have a link to a study of the correlation between facial hair and blade fetishism?
I've been thinking about learning a martial art for a while now, as an effort to keep in shape as the years fly by. Do you know one Glute?
***** Apparently Jiu Jitsu is one of the best ways to get in shape. Been thinking about it myself.
Oh I am too old for that. I am thinking about T'ai chi ch'uan; it seems like a martial art custom made for the larger sized gentleman like myself. I won't post a link as it will be listed automatically as spam (nice one google plus) but have search for the video titled 'tai chi vs mma which is nicer?'. It's a play on words on the whole 'which is best' thing as is a guy doing a demo with an MMA guy.
I'd be interested in your thoughts.
***** Well, at first glance it looks like a very nice (scripted) demonstration of tai chi vs a person who just stands there like an idiot doing absolutely nothing. LOL
Gluteus Illuminatus The guy was a last minute stand in as Sinclair's guy didn't turn up, so it is unlikely that it was scripted. And it is a demonstration of course so the MMA wasn't trying to show anyone up. If you listen to the commentary this was the point of the video.
"i don't think scissoring was a period technique" -skall laughs
classic skall
He’s brilliant lol
I like that they mentioned Musashi's style in japanese swordsmanship, although having read half of Musashi's famous book on the subject I really got the impression *most* of his technique was really "I have a Tachi (Katana) in my right hand and it's the weapon I mostly care about using, the other, short one is just there in case I end up in a situation where the Tachi wouldn't be helpful" So it's less of dual wielding a la anime swordsmen, and more like one handed swordsmanship with a backup. I haven't finished the Five Rings yet, so maybe that's not true.
As far as I know, a Tachi and a Katana are different weapons. I think the Tachi is larger
very educational, I really hope some random game developer/ animator see this. dual wielding is cool and fun if you're doing it right, please no more cross block and a-b strike
Croz Raven Dark souls 1 had done this semi-realisticaly. You could dual wield, but the only weapons that had any value in the off-hand were small parrying daggers.
+Izzder Dual wielding shields all the way
Izzder In DS1, it is possible to dual wield, but it is useless to dual wield, because the left weapon has a shit moveset, and you can only use one weapon at a time. Better to have a shield at all times, because a shield can parry just as well as a parrying dagger anyways. And I prefer the fast parrying of a shield.
Kevin Meisenbacher I have a bandit knife in my left hand, so I can both prevent lagstabbing and make shield users bleed. Shields are better, but I like a good challenge.
Croz Raven Power-stance ultra greatswords in DS2... ah jeez...
"I need that to drink Richard"
phoenixsplash135 I would have pissed myself at that had I been there.
**gets stabbed in the abdomen**
*_I need this liver to drink, Richard_*
When both are trying to talk over each other I feel like I'm trying to dual wield information.
is anyone else's favorite noise the sound of two swords binding?
like sliding against eachother
sounds gay
"I need this liver to drink, Richard."
my fucking sides.
*his side
dual weilding just simply wasnt done. it leaves no hand open to "end him rightly" and therefore it is far inferior to the pommel throw.
Musashi used a short offhand, not two similarly long ones.
+Devil Chylde I don't think you get the joke RIP plus the fucking irony of this statement " read properly before you type :)"
DemonicX no no, the loud angry kid cant be wrong.
Faust Dante XD
This dude doesnt know when to stop holy shit. Never in my life have i seen such a pure uncut source of ignorance and idolism. Well done.
I believe dual wielding pistols is equally as useless, unless it's two muzzle loading pistols, in which case, having more shots would be beneficial, but you only shoot ONE pistol at a time, and each shot is aimed. That's my belief on the matter of dual wielding pistols, anyways.
+NormanMatchem
Yes, that's true.
Explain more pls.
Deep and Profound Topics
Using two pistols at once is generally very inaccurate, and a waste of ammo, compared to using ONE pistol in TWO hands. Using just one side arm is more stable, you can actually use the irons, you can control the recoil better due to using two hands, even in rapid fire, though it will still be somewhat inaccurate, it'll be more controllable than rapid firing two pistols at once.
Then there's reloading of course, it's almost impossible to reload two pistols at once, believe me, I've tried. The best you can hope for is to holster one pistol, then reload the other, and once that's reloaded, holster it, unholster the other pistol, and reload that one, then unholster the first pistol. That takes more than twice as long as reloading one singular pistol. Though DOESN'T take much more than twice as long if we're talking muzzle loading pistols, so in that one scenario, I do believe it can be advantageous, but with semi auto pistols, dual wielding is absolutely ridiculous.
Revolvers... that's a trick situation. If we're talking a modern swing-out cylinder with a clip/speed loader of some sort, or a Webley Mk.VI with a Prudeaux device thing (basically a really old-timey speed loader), then just use the one revolver. If it's a cap and ball revolver, DEFINITELY having the 5-6 extra shots is advantageous, though I'd advise using ONE revolver at a time. Once the first one is empty, holster it, and unholster the other.
Fixed-cylinder revolvers, if it's single action, just use one, definitely. I guess you COULD use the one-at-a-time method like I mentioned with cap and ball revolvers, but with lots of practice and muscle memory, you can reload something like an M1873 Colt Single Action Army in pretty short time, and it's likely quicker to recock the revolver with a two-handed grip than to do so with just one hand. If it's a double-action revolver, it might be handier to go dual-wielding due to having more shots, but if I were to do so for some stupid reason, I'd either use the one-at-a-time method as mentioned, or if I were to actually DUAL WIELD with one in each hand, Id only use ONE at a time, possibly even exchange the full revolver in my left hand for the empty revolver in my right hand just so it's that much more well controlled, though I find most double action triggers to be hard to shoot accurately even with a two-hand grip, so one-handed?... I doubt I'd be hitting much...
I think that covers my view on the matter quite thoroughly. Dual wielding might be cool in videogames, but in the real world, it offers little to no practical function, unless it's around the mid-19th century or earlier. Cap and ball revolvers look like a nightmare to reload... even firing can be finicky, seems like sometimes those fired caps like to become dislodged from their respective nipples, and try to gum up the action. Another reason why using one at a time might be better, I figure with two hands you could more easily clear a cap-jam than with just one hand, but I have no first-hand experience with cap-and-ball revolvers, so I'm by NO means an expert on the matter. Hickok45 would know far more than me when it comes to cap-and-ball anything.
+NormanMatchem But... what about my dual wielding S&W .500's?
+NormanMatchem mm, okay, Thankyou.
Clearly these guys haven't seen Ser Arthur Dayne of the Kingsguard, Sword of the Morning in action.
Umm... ruclips.net/video/nCjYrTEioNI/видео.html
Sorry. :)
***** (That's the joke)
Okay. :)
HAHA!
Well how about Karl Fookin Tanner The Legend of Gin Alley. Master in close quarter with dual dagger.
The "end him rightly" and "pommel throwing" have become a meme in this channel, haven't they??
Yes. And I am not complaining.
Unfortunately it's been beaten to death for years and hasn't faded into obscurity like the one off joke it was meant to be.
@@jacobstaten2366 The common thing in majority of the internet, especially youtube video's comment section which is beating the dead horse over and over for years, quoting the lines from video everyone just seen, using the overused meme formulas in the race of who will do that first and get more likes etc. Atleast it makes me appreciate original people much more.
In LARP you can easily Spot the Noob.
That Guy with all in black Clothing wielding two imbalanced cheap Foam-swords with no Head protection or maybe a "cool hood"
Also the first one in a scirmish to get down after taking 10 times more hits then anyone else. ^^
VCMENTERTAINMENTS You forget that he will be coverd in black clothes and that he is an "Assasin"
+Peter Hans
Nah. i just forgot the term "assasin" But "dragon Warrior", Pirateninja, Cyberbarbarian or "shadow- dark- you name it" is also common :D
VCMENTERTAINMENTS The guy that looks like Kirito from Sword Art Online? Ja~
Actually my friend once asked me to look after his gun for a little while during an Airsoft match. I spent the next ten minutes duel wielding an AUG and a G3, feeling like Rambo, and having the time of my life. Even if I did look like a twat.
+NeonZombiellama
Nah, Dual wielding two automatic Distance Weapon is cool and efforts actually not much skill. You point at one Direction and pull the Trigger. I did this myself too on the post-apocLARP with the guns stolen from the wounded people lying around. Its better to use their ammo first and safe your own stocks ^^
But mastering two swords is alot of training that typical black shirt 18 year old Nerd normaly doesnt get unless he is born into some old family of ancient fencing masters or were adopted by shaolin voodoo assasins ^^
Much smarter to have a single sword with multiple pommels
this really made me laugh xDDDD
Arthur Dayne needs to watch this video.
Agreed, just one of those things you know is kinda dumb but enjoy it anyway haha.
I could've sworn that when I read his lore from the Wikia, it said that he wielded a greatsword known as Dawn so I was extremely confused when the show depicted him dual-wielding.
@@mukraf you're correct
What if you dual wield beards?
wooaah....
I don't remember making this comment.
+Oly1y Looks to me you're still having your liver and putting it to good use.
+Ohno0es whatever reference that is flew right over me.
+Oly1y 5:00 I need this liver to drink Richard
Awesome video as always!
Skall, you should ask them about strange/curious stuff you come across (pommel throwing and stuff like that)
Also, they said that dagger and rapier must be used in one single tempo to be effective, but they also said there are other weapons which are used in two tempos. Could you aske them of an example of those other weapons?
Dario Ferretti
Yeah I also would like to hear more about these topics!
Dario Ferretti Later century fencing styles are more two tempo systems (ie Parry then riposte). The courtly smallsword, which became popular and fashionable so self-defense and dueling evolved out of rapier combat. Due to its shorter length and a blade designed solely for thrusting, one could not pull off the single time counter very effectively. One would have to first set aside your opponents attack while on guard then deliver an attack of your own as your opponent is recovering from theirs.
Dario Ferretti Alternatively, he could have a sparring match with one of them, and then without warning start frantically unscrewing his pommel to throw at them! He'll win for sure!
Dario Ferretti
From what I understand Highland broadsword is a two-time system. Many weapons can be either or, for instance in German longsword and Polish saber there are both parry-counter techniques and single tempo techniques that break an opponent's attack.
Apparently pommel throwing is just a joke.
5:06 "i need this liver to drink, Richard" lol
Nice sarcastic lesson: "Wrong looks better".
+Eduardo Gutierrez Reason why everything is so wrong in movies: it actually looks better.
3:25 Palpatine: "Do it"
I always thought dual wielding was just a movie thing and that it was kinda idiotic. I see it's more viable than i thought, but im sure at the time nobody would use that on the battlefield. Woudn't make use of it though since there are more safer, reliable options. Seems more for show.
Komugi It's the pistol. You do it because it's easy to carry a short dagger/sword/small buckler and a rapier on your hips. Carrying a large shield, on the other hand? Nope.
So my go to analogy is:
Longsword, rapier, rapier/dagger, rapier/buckler = pistols of renaissance/high medieval ages
Arming sword/shield, X/shield, spear(and other pole arms) = Assault rifles of renaissance/high medieval ages.
You carry a pistol to defend yourself if attacked (or have fun at the shooting range)
You carry an AR/SMG/LMG to wage war (or have fun at the shooting range)
Even Musashi didn't really do it in large scale armoured battle. It's more applicable in dueling and such when both parties more than likely have a sword(s)
John Wesley Well, at the time, wasn't Musashi a ronin? There probably were no large scaled battles. He mostly dueled other ronin and other schools in order to spread his teachings. So dual wielding to him was probably less about practicality, and more about philosophy.
Komugi Most sword techniques are not viable in a battlefield, because you need to fight in formations. So there's that.
+GoodwillWright For the most part yes, but I believe and I'm sure someone more well versed in Sengoku period history will jump down my throat if I'm wrong is that in his younger days Musashi probably fought at the Battle of Sekigahara. Which if you don't know was an enormous battle between the Forces of Ieyasu and Toyotomi.
"I need this liver to drink, Richard."
...
My sides are in orbit
Hey,Skall, have you ever brought up the pommel throwing technique to your instructor? Perhaps he'd know whether or not that is a real technique or just a joke.
Dual wielding's actually a big part of Chinese martial arts. The hook swords, for example, are a pair of dual wielding weapons said to have been as old as the Warring States period 2500 years ago and are still used in Shaolin martial arts.
Whats your point? Hook swords were not used in war anyways.
But hook swords and other Chinese weapons that could be dual-wielded were made for passive defense, not war. So it wouldn't be ideal to use them on a battlefield.
Chinese martial arts is so strong they made every 4th man in their country an opium junkie.
I find it interesting that dual wielding was very common in Chinese martial arts with several types of weapons, especially double sabers (dao). I've trained in some of them, and the swords techniques emphasize simultaneous parries and cuts.
Piermarco Terminileo wrote that on one of the FB groups (I can't remeber which): "I've cited 11 italian sources (here he speaks about fencing manuals. Marozzo, Manciolino, di'Grassi, Agrippa are the ones I'm familiar with, but as he says there are many others) for 2 swords in the article I linked (that was on HROARR). Di Grassi rates 2 swords as the best combination short of polearms, so it's not just a parlour trick. It's also recommended as the first combination to learn after the sword alone by: Altoni, Docciolini, Palladini, Desbordes and Cassani. Cassani being a military author who just has a very short section on fencing."
That was in a loooong conversation about the same topic. My personal opinion is that basicaly people don't like "double wielding" because of the related fantasy/sci-fi troupes (I'm looking at you Drizzt), but it was a perfectly valid style, practiced all around the world with different weapon types, however in Europe it was mostly a very different one than the most of the mentioned troupes pictured it. For example, fencing with twos swords as the 16th cent. sources wrote about it is often a very thrust-centric approaching, not a slash-slash-whirlwindy thing. And clearly it wasn't a thing for warfare, instead for duelling and other civilian contexts.
The likely rareness as a day-to-day carried combination is imo mostly due to the fact that carrying two swords all day, everywhere is a pain in the ass. Not because it was a "bad" combination.
+Márk Palotai Yep! He did. I think I can probably name more that do not though. So done. Yes. Common? We don't think so. Period art also lends to this.
Others disagree with me and think it was very common.
@@TravelingTyrant I will comment that the "X" block is not done straight out at arms length - if blocking an ax haft or pole arm haft you block slightly to the side and allow it to rotate over freeing one of your swords to counter while still maintaining control of the longer weapon. I do dual wield in the SCA - and once you understand how the blades need to move - it is a viable thing - not many people can use both hands skillfully and if you were risking your life would you bet on a weaker hand?
@@ironwolfgaming9632 This is about historical sources though- so, you miiiiight find the x parry in sources, but, I've not run across too many unless you start getting pretty loose on how you define it.
@@TravelingTyrant oh I agree - in a sword vs sword fight it wouldn't really need to be used - even a heavy blade can be turned more easily with a slip than a hard block.
But if im using a dagger in one hand, and a sword in the other, what hand do i use to unscrew my pommel and end them rightly?
+Mattateus Javier Teeth.
+Mattateus Javier butt cheeks
+Mattateus Javier You hold the sword in the left hand together with the dagger, and unscrew the pommel with the right hand, if I remember correctly.
Don't do this at home.
Mumfol Dingzzzda It is too late I have already ended 7 enemies rightly with my thrown pommels.
Very informative. I really enjoyed the defense against the heavier sword technique, and the nod to Musashi’s dual wielding swords of different lengths. I do wish that the Florentine case of swords (Altoni 1540 and Docciolini 1601) or case of rapiers (DiGrassi 1570) had been demonstrated alongside the dagger and rapier or dagger and falchion techniques.
Great video, it's super interesting to know more about uncommon styles. . . . but can we please talk more about that parrying dagger!? Or just parrying daggers in general? It looks amazing to use in a sword fight with it's hand guard and catching hooks.
I really want to know more about how those were used.
"I don't think scissoring is a period technique"
I hope they realize what he just said
I'm interested in learning how to use many different types of swords. How do I find a school.
STOP IT YOU'RE RUINING MY RPG FANTASY LIFE!
Seriously though, that's pretty sweet. Thanks for making these videos.
what about two daggers... it's easy to parry and counter... is it efficient ???
Luccas Freitas
Severely limited reach. It would be very hard to get past the defense of an opponent with a longer blade.
No matter how skilled you are with those daggers, to get past an opponents blade you must use footwork to get close, which is quite... Dangerous.
Zoey The same is true of swords against spears. Clearly everyone should be carrying polearms around on their daily business.
The dual dagger trope pretty much always appears on characters who can not carry longer weapons, usually due to concealability concerns. The question isn't if two daggers are better than a sword. The question is if two daggers are better than one dagger.
Luccas Freitas Also, it's very hard to defend your legs with a dagger. You can step back obviously but if you only have daggers you can't threaten him at the same time, making it relatively safe for him.
Back to the original comment, "easy to parry" maybe, "and counter" not really
Zoey Skallagrim did a video on cutting spears in half, it's easier said than done. It should be fairly easy to find, the video that is.
i just recently discovered your channel and I highly respect the fact that not only do you talk about subjects and go into details with numerous examples and facts, but you bring other peoples experience onto your channel as well, not just your own.
I suggest (for the general topic of dual wielding) to take a very close look on Escrima (Arnis, Kali). Especially the "Espada y Daga" - part of it. The filipinos adapted a lot from spanish fencing and european (and thai-) boxing. That´s maybe interesting for you.
"I need this liver to drink Richard" That was the best laugh I have had all day.
What if one of the swords was used defensively with a reverse/icepick grip?
i'd imagine it being the other way around, the defense being the regular grip and the offense being the reverse grip.
You'd get your own arm in the way of the other sword...
Very good points, I appreciate the common sense of those two instructors. Also, I don't know if anybody told you Skall but Lee Smith really looks like you.
philipino systems often include dualwielding to same length swords (as well as sword and dagger espada y daga. worth noting is that these swords are significantly shorter than the ones used in this demo. They are seldom used with the longer swords like kampilan, but more often with barong, pinute etc, wich are machete size swords
I've done it a bit- mostly with boffer swords. My buddy that taught me the basics of two-sword (he fights two-sword in the SCA) taught me to think of the two blades as a sword and a shield (blocking implement) that can instantly switch places. As the video shows, every time you parry, you are already launching the counterstroke.
As to trying to block a 'power shot'from a heavy weapon, the best method is- don't be there when it arrives. Dont' block static- block and move in the same smooth motion. Better yet, when your opponent tries the old "split-you-down-the-middle" shot, sweep the blade aside as you move out from under it, controlling it and moving it away from you. Meanwhile, you are now inside your opponent's guard, and a "wrap" ("scorpion") delivered "en passant" (as you move past) seems to work well.
"I need this liver to drink with."
I need this quote on a t-shirt
The greatest duelist of all time, Musashi, used a two sword technique. In fact, his school of kenjutsu is called Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu which means two sword technique. He is documented as winning more than 60 duels.
Just search Kirito Sword Art Online, that’s how I wanna do dual wielding
So swing em really fast, that's dangerous and ineffective lol
I just recently found your channel now I watch almost all your old and new videos
Richard Marsden was my global humanities teacher in highschool and I took some of his fencing classes too, really awesome guy.
This was very insightful. Thank you.
Game of Thrones Spoiler Alert, but this is a question Skallagrim.
What do you think of the flashback fight scene between Arthur Dayne and Ned Stark's guys? Arthur Dayne was dual wielding in it, and it seemed relatively realistic and practical to me though I'm no expert.
+jakjak090
It didn't look like a real fight at all, it was so obviously over-choreographed and stylized that I found it painful to watch.
+Skallagrim I wanted to ask exactly that as soon as I watched the fight. It seemed a little more realistic to me than other fights, though. At least the guys were not blindly running at ser Arthur taking turns to attack. But yeah haha I'm not expert either, but I did though it looked cool without looking as stupid as any other 1 vs 4 or more I've ever seen.
+Skallagrim You must have loved the Ser Vardis and Bronn scene way back in season 1 then...No obvious problems to the untrained eye even.
Vardis's overswinging
well, it did have problems. overpowered swings of the Ser Vardis, no one fights like this with one-handed sword. Exactly because it is quite easy to take advantage of, like Bronn did.
just think though..... DUEL WIELD MURDER STROKE that might be the most epic thing ever
***** then in a couple hundred years a pommel grenade launcher
My god they have a crain with what appears to be a giant pommel acting as the wrecking ball
+Level 58 Death Knight U SIr, are filled with LIES!
+trey olson I don't remember where, but there was a picture from a manuscript with a sword that looks perfectly normal until you come half up the blade where it begins to form a guard handle and pommel again. I think it was from the Wolfenbüttel Sketch Book.
***** Oh yeah, he did
From experience. Double Rapier is very strong & it's not a joke. I practice it. Actually it is the best dual sword combo.
I don't know if I agree with this. Dual-wielding can be 'very' artistic, and 'very' useful. Yes, very few people do use it, but those who do are incredibly efficient (assuming they've practiced with it and know what they're doing). But it can lead to stunning connections, and faster attacks then just about any other style (possibly tied with sword and dagger). I think if an expert duel-wielder were to show you what he can do, you might be surprised. I think you just haven't seen a good example yet.
Butterflyswords.
Zeger Bosch what about them lol?
+Robert R I believe he's trying to say they are meant for dual wielding because the come in sets
+Zeger Bosch They're more machetes with hand protection than full length swords though.
Zeger Bosch Both are short. The reason serious dual wielding is done with 1rapier is because the shorter the blade the more freedom of motion without getting it's arc through the longer blade.
If both are short there's even less chance of that issue.
+Zeger Bosch "Swords" more like mini machetes, you won't run into the same issues with dual Butterflyswords that you would with rapiers, or swords with more size to them.
I dont know much about medieval fighting styles but in my country, Philippines, our common fighting style with weapons involves dual wielding. Its called Arnis, yeah as of now its fighting with two sticks but we were taught in school that this style was also used with swords, particularly sabres, during pre colonial era.
Off course wielding a sharped edge buckler and a sword it's still Dual-Wielding, just the same as dual wielding a throwing rock and a stick ;)
My friend and I experimented with a combination of rapier and a sai. The sai is held in a ice pick grip.
It mostly ended up being useful only if you could get into grappling distance with the opponent.
I hope to see more Rapier videos, for some reason (I assume because Rapier Fencing has remained popular since it's original use) in a lot of HEMA videos on RUclips the Rapier is sometimes talked about but normally it's the long and short swords and sabers.
Please, don't put subtitles on the top.
so you prefer the bottom?
welp
Zormac Ended rightly
Wouldn't that make them supertitles?
Why are people so obsessed with debating about whether a thing works or not? Why not see if it works for you? Well, we can certainly see it does not for you, which is fine. The strength either of these guys have for dual wielding is debatable anyways-- One of the most overlooked points regarding this is that a weapon is merely extending the utility of the hand and arm--- I don't see many one armed boxers, do you? I think that plenty of guys versed in escrima would be able to handle the ambidexterity-- even if it was limiting them to a machete or messer--- But again, unless you have people that are skilled in it to contrast, why make it all so one sided? The bottom line i'm gathering here is that "If you don't have the coordination, then mock it to make you feel better". But it isn't like amazing skill is being demonstrated to the contrary, man. The fixed cross guards are silly-- anyone using that type of fixed concept as a defense are going to get shredded, but to see an allegedly "advanced" instructor showing it that way? I personally find your formulae of mixing controversial elements with the average two-bear amusing. No offense intended. Just.... You dwell way too much in the tick talk of it all. I'm glad you have found people that agree with you but I think it would be far more humble to spend your energy finding those who can exhibit the method you have so much disdain for and learn a few more things instead of acting like you've already reached the proverbial high road. Take care.
The best dual-wielding I've seen was in Tales of Symphonia. The main character is self-taught and uses two swords because he thought it would be stronger. At this point he's pretty set in the technique and is decent with it, but he learns over time how to fight and leave himself less open.
Could you also have them comment on the effectiveness of duel pommel throwing?
@skallagrim. If I might skalla, m. mushashi had developed a system for a wakazashi (short katana) with a full katana Handel. It affected how one would wield them.
If you're going to fight with two swords, you certainly don't want a full length broadsword.
I personally fight with two shorter cutlass-type sabers. And it's very applicable. Against everything but a large-shield wielding opponent.
I can't stress enough that the cross block is so ineffective. But for the situation he described, a heavier blade or stronger opponent, but the problem is that it's a small snapshot of a fight. A freeze frame. The block doesn't stay a block, you don't even stop there. You continue your movement. Just like he showed. But usually faster.
I'd love to turn this into a dialog man, dual-wielding is a love of mine, and while not as practical as sword and shield (especially against arrows) I'd love to share what I know with you.
I can't say how much I love your videos and learn from them.
What about reverse-gripping a cutting weapon with your offhand?
Slithereenn One of Skallagrim's sparring videos shown that a dagger, reverse gripped, can be an useful parrying tool vs cutting weapons. It had a very awesome looking parry done that way.
Slithereenn depends on the weapons. Knives and daggers can be useful in that position. Swords not so much, especially if you're facing an enemy with any range at all. Just decreases the range of your cuts. It decreases the power of your swings, as well, I believe.
Slithereenn it also depend on the dagger, there are some specific designs made for parring.
like the trident dagger, the sai, the jitte, that are more usefull to use normal grip, when parring.
Nick Dettmer
I was thinking something straight, double-edged, with a guard, and about the length of a forearm, or maybe shorter. I would imagine it would give you some unexpected ways to turn your defense into offense.
Slithereenn In Fillippino martial arts we often employ reverse grip sticks as make-shift "shields", by flatting them against our forearm.
New version of the video:
*A random dude on the internet comments on dual wielding swords.*
You are not Kirito, stahp it.
I will never be able to look at duel wielding the same anymore... -sigh-
Erik Marcu
Well, it is practically feasible. In a fantasy world where swords are very affordable it would make sense for people to practice dual wielding, although one longer and one shorter blade are a better choice than two long ones. And a shield would probably be a somewhat better choice (although difficult to carry).
Erik Marcu Still viable in fantasy settings, since your opponent probably isn't going to use swords or even be a humanoid. I suppose that's what these techniques are about; doing what works.
The cross block s a valid move if used in the right circumstances. Like these guys said, against someone who uses a two-handed sword. We call it "the cradle". You catch the sword while it's moving downward, slide back while getting a good feel of the enemy blade and once you feel it's lost it's energy you fling it back upwards, control it with the offhand and generally get a good clean shot at the belly.
I could listen to these guys for hours
The forgotten technic says, that when dualwielding you can throw two pommels at once to confuse your opponent ant then throw your sword. If he manages to block that, you can attack him normally just after that.
And since someone is complaining about beards, they are extremaly usefull. You can hide things there, like pommels for example, so you don't need to unscrew it from your sword. It also protects your throat and confuses your opponent, because he cannot se, where your throat is, so he cannot hit it.
"[...] that he parries with his dagger then stabs with his sword [...]"
Did you mean: Dark Souls
Zyǐ Bésixdouze I think daggers actually deal more damage on ripostes in Dark Souls. They do in DS3, at least. Of course, assuming they have the same bonus and your stats don’t strictly favor the sword (as in, a strength build with virtually no dexterity will not be doing much damage with daggers).
@@user-nk8ft3nn8z I think they meant the parrying dagger.
Wow, these guys really impressed me. Its so common to people who don't know wtf they are talking about trying to teach or people who do but suck at teaching trying to teach but they really seemed to do a good job even with just comments :)
I was trained for dual wielding using Katana's many years ago. It's not as easy as many think (based on fantasy etc sources) but it certainly can be done effectively. Though I would dare to say most people would not master in reality.
Even with the training I have for that it was simply not used anywhere near as often to say the least. But interesting video from others trained in the western styles vs my own experience (mostly Japanese style)
I trained with a man who was obscenely good at dual wielding swords, and seeing videos like this make me cringe a little. I wish I had videos and recording him sparring back when we were training. He was lightning fast and used pretty sophisticated techniques while duel wielding. It really didn't look anything at all like what is in this video. Much more fluid and much faster. It was all about using speed and counter attacking. Maybe it helped that he has crazy flexibility, he could snake his arms through each other in weird ways that I could never do, even after years of practice.
Effective duel wielding is just a completely different art. Imagine someone who has never fenced before going up against someone with many years experience. The new person will have so many things they do not understand. So many questions. They reject knowledge because they don't have the experience to know how useful it is. Same goes for a person who has never duel wielded going into the art of duel wielding. It is basically a totally different discipline from normal fencing. If you want to learn it, more power to you, it is not easy and you will not have many resources. If you don't want to learn it, then relax and let it go.
+Melthornal I'm sure "talent" always came into play like with any athletic ability. And then of course, it's how much training you want to give to a potential soldier before it becomes uneconomical to sacrifice him in battle. I'm sure DW was done too, but not many ppl would train that after work and rediscover lost principles or whatever. The only surviving examples are from Asian martial arts, more focused on paying rent via teaching a relic movie enthusiasts than anything else;. :)
rasmasyean It always felt like he was attacking 2 or more times in tempo, each from a different angle. He could feign with one arm while attacking with the other, and do it completely at will. You never knew which arm to look out for. Even when you had a shield, which is how I usually sparred with him, he could feign high and attack low, feign low and attack high, bind your sword, bind your shield, feign entirely while backing away, feign while side stepping, on and on, and you would never have a single clue which was going on because he was so fast and gave you telegraphing. And he could swap between each of these faster than you can blink. There were times going up against him that I just hid behind the shield and hoped for a miracle. He could do things like feign low with left arm and attack high while at the same time feigning high with the right arm and attacking low, or any combination. High high, low low, high low, low high, feign low high, feign high low, on and on, every permutation. You had absolutely no clue what was happening.
+Melthornal
My school studies Digrassi, and I hate fighting case. The guys that are comfortable with this as their primary 'go to' combo are really good at it and it frustratss me to no end.
so wait duel wielding swords can work?
I want to learn dual wielding like this guy, was he a HEMA Practitioner? was he self taught?
This fight... looks genuinely slow to me. I can follow every move, watch every connection and notice every parry, even that sick two-handed block.
This is crazy, I can actually interpret expert-level sparring.
+Trumbles
Were you trying to comment on that video instead? ruclips.net/video/n5w2Mh6CyXo/видео.html
This video doesn't contain any sparring.
Haw. yup that's what I meant!
+Trumbles As can I. However, putting those techniques into practice, and getting to THEIR level, takes years.
+Skallagrim
I remember one of urs videos, when u talking about how stupid is dual wielding in battle...
Musashi Miyamoto was master of dual wielding- he develop niten'ichi-ryū. And at the end of his life he write a book r Gorin-no Sho. He was the greatest sword master ever heard. He win more than sixty legal duel's and he never loose. He fight with saber and shorter sword.
+Trumbles I don't think this is really 'sparring.' They're going slow in order to make it easy for people to follow and because they aren't wearing protection. But I could be wrong.
Dual wielding is definitely op, although it costs more stamina, it have a 80% increased damage and a increased range with 50% more damage coverage, ignoring Armor rating
It is nice that Richard explains how cross blocking can work.
Can confirm the X block for heavier weapons. The only thing I've found that can keep a dane axe away when I use sword and seax is a x block that takes the momentum of the strike and redirect it.
"Richard's" Rapier
:)
(Gonna let that game reference sink in~)
*Estoc R1 spam intesifies* that weapon art doe
Pretty interesting
I think drizzt the dark elf will disagree
+Erik Gruber But in what edition?
Phillip Penne OK am talking about the book forgotten realms have no idea what you guys are on about
***** am not a gamer am a geek who likes to read never got a chance to play games mom was crazy
Thanks for posting this. Good explanation of single time/stesso tempo vs. two times/dui tempi. For those who are interested di Grassi, Agrippa & Marozzo all give instruction on dual wielding. Note: Di Grassi considered that two swords was for duelling only.
afencersramblings.blogspot.com/2013/07/case-of-rapiers-bluffers-guide.html?m=1
Would dual weilding two smaller blades word, not daggers but smaller than a long sword and rapier. If you want an example, the closest I could find was a character from for honor, the guy with two small katanas, forgot the name of the sword.
Dual wield is impractical, you need the other hand to perform rude hand gestures.
you're forgetting about the viability behind it!
The biggest drawback of dual wielding swords is that you no longer have a free hand to unscrew your pommel and end your opponent rightly.
I really had to cringe when he said that Musashi does not like to use two hands on one sword.
Don Mega What I meant is that Musashi was a master at using only one sword as well. In fact in every duel that he had, he allways used either a katana or a boken that he made himself.
Don Mega the thing is almost all japanese sword schools have forms where you can fluently switch 1 and 2 hands for strenght/reach reasons.