I got back from Kiev earlier this week. I am at an A2 or B1 stage in Russian, so people who spoke better English than my Russian usually replied in English and most other in Russian and a few in Ukrainian. I think that Kiev is a really nice place and I am sure that I will go back to Ukraine!
historically thru the centures ukrainian language has been spoken in village rural areas while russian has been a big cities language. Citizens understand both.
Это современное положение дел. Киев, например, стал русскоязычным 30 лет назад. В 60 годах прошлого века 80% жителей говорли на украиском. Вот доклад ЦРУ: www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00810A003900890002-0.pdf Такое изминение произшло из-за тотальной доминации русского языка в СМИ и обучении во ремя СССР. В это время родился еще и суржик.
@@vexillonerd ЦРУ еще те вруны. Лучше спроси у местных РАЗНЫХ киевлян, которые корнями уходят в поколения и сопоставь. Булгаков киевлянин писал, что вообще Киев был естественно русскоязычным. Это же был большой город российской империи
I've spent three months in Ukraine, one month in L'viv and in the service industry, everybody will reply you in Russian, no problems at all because they want your money but if you stop someone in the streets and ask something in russian, be ready to maybe get a negative reaction or be replied in Ukrainian. Young L'viv people might want to help you but they truly can't speak any russian, they will understand but they are not capable of reproducing russian out of their mouths, I experienced that a lot. On the internet, google and etc you will see that they paint those interactive maps saying that Kiev is 50/50 but I lived there for two months and the whole time, passively I was listening to Russian. I don't recall listening to people speaking Ukrainian there so my impression is that people in Kiev only speak russian in their everyday life but you will see lots of people saying that it's 50/50. I've been to Chernigov as well and it's 100% Russian also. That's my personal experience though.
Wrong, you can freely speak Russian in Ukraine as well. If millions of Ukrainians actually speak it as their first and common language, why act so nationalistic and aggressive towards those who cannot speak or have zero interest for the Ukrainian language? Accept it, Russian language is still part of the Ukrainian people and society.
Alright, but first tell that to the millions of Ukrainians who use Russian as their first and most of the time ONLY language! Then we, foreigners, will adapt to that, but only when Ukrainians start speaking ukranians as well, in Odessa, in Kiev, in Kharkiv and etc.
Ukrainian is used on TV and in school. Subjects in college/school/kindergarten must be taught in Ukrainian. TV and radio must be mostly in Ukrainian ( there are quotas). Legal ( including signs) and political discourse and documents must be in Ukrainian. That half of society runs in the national language. But in daily social speech and for business, Russian is preferred. Since you are not a student in Ukraine, do not apparently watch news on TV in Ukrainian, do not listen to songs of read national newspapers, and do not read legal documents and/or political publications, nor listen to the political discourse at the Rada, you are only exposed to the social/business half of the Kyiv society. And I guess, that is just fine.
Thanks Dave - Your posts provide good insights. Does it not seem strange that the government is so strongly forcing Ukrainian language use on citizens through these quotas and laws, claiming it's for preservation of the national language, while at the same time also allowing schools to so aggressively teach English to all children as part of that same curriculum? If there was any language with a history of trying to dominate the world, and bringing with it a whole lot of cultural influence and change, it seems like it would be English.
@@traviscook7817do you have a better plan of action for the country' s language situation? If so, please stop by the Rada and talk to some ministers. See if u can convince them.in the meantime, ukrainian is taught as a national language bec legal and formal life runs in it, english is taught as a foreign language bec the world outside mostly runs in it . russian is useless, it brings no money and is in the phase- out process which will take a couple of generations. It took some time to phase out german in czschoslovakia, too.
Thank you for clarifying the situation, it's a very interesting phenomenon that different parts of Ukraine "choose" to speak either of the two tongues and it's great to know more about the actual situation from someone who's spent some time in the country. Definitely inspired to discover those differences by myself. I do agree with you that learning Russian first is normally a better idea. Pozdrowienia z Polski!
Enjoy your videos, you are excellent at explaining many subjects. I cannot quite pinpoint your accent, you mentioned originally Ireland, you actually sound like you have some European accent when you are speaking English even though you are a native English speaker.
Yep, I was born in Ireland and lived in many other European countries like Germany, Belgium, France, Italy and the Netherlands but also in the US for a few years 😊
Hi Conor - I discovered your channel after watching your video from 2016 with Jan, talking about Russian vs Ukrainian language use in Lviv. I wanted to find your other videos you mentioned you'd be making about that topic, and imagine my surprise when I clicked on your channel and found this as your most recent video! For a minute I wondered if all you did was make videos talking about Russian/Ukrainian language use. :) This is actually a topic I'm interested in, and one I get the feeling is actively evolving right now. I get the feeling that answers to this question 5 years ago would be very different from 2 years ago and are different from 2 days ago. Thus, I'm really glad you made a video updating things 2 days ago! In the summer of 2013, I decided to very casually begin learning Russian, to be able to understand and communicate with Ukrainians. While I'd say I'm still very beginner, I'm excited to finally have the opportunity to visit Kyiv for the New Year this winter. A big part of that for me was the idea that I was finally going someplace where people would speak to me in Russian, and I'd have to do my best to understand and respond. However, after booking the trip, I started reading more and more about how Russian language use was rapidly decreasing in Ukraine, and many would consider it offensive if you used it. There are some posts on travel sites from Ukrainians comparing speaking Russian in Ukraine now to speaking German in France in the late 1940's. The consensus seemed to be that if you were desperate, use Russian, because everyone understands it. But if you wanted to make friends, you would be far better off using Ukrainian. From your reports, it sounds like that really isn't true, and Russian is not only understood, but will often be a language of initial attempt when meeting people. I know you speak both Ukrainian and Russian, so maybe you've never experienced this, but I've found in the past that I can often struggle to tell Russian and Ukrainian apart. For me, Ukrainian sounds like Russian I just don't understand yet. Often, there are enough common words between the language, and common sounds, that I think it might be Russian and I just don't understand what someone is trying to say, until I hear the same sentence in Russian and it suddenly all makes sense. Has anyone else here ever experienced this situation? I hope people won't be too offended if I respond to their Ukrainian in Russian, saying I don't understand them. Hopefully they'll hear my horrible accent and know I'm just a stupid American tourist and take pity on me.
Don´t worry about using Russian in Ukraine, it's absolutely fine. Furthermore, if you are an American it's clear you are not a KGB spy. The only downside is that many posters and signs are in Ukrainian instead of Russian, but don't worry, as an American speaking Russian I am sure they will be amazed :) The only main city I experienced negative reactions speaking Russian was Lviv xD.
I spoke Thai and Japanese in front of an American. One is a tonal language with many weird vowels. The other is a staccato language with limited vowels and almost no diphthongs. The American said that both languages sounded exactly the same to him.
Thanks all for an interesting discussion on this topic. It's clear that not only is this a rapidly evolving topic, it's also one with some very strong opinions, and a lot of national history and identity wrapped up in it as well. I appreciate the information from other tourists, as I feel you offer the most neutral perspectives on what other visitors to the country should be prepared for. I also respect the views of the natives who have posted here, although I fear that the fact you are here, on an English language travel vlog, you may have a very strong pre-existing opinion on the subject. I look forward to visiting Ukraine and doing my best communicate with anyone willing in any language we can find common, as I do believe that this is far more important for the world than arguing over which language people should be speaking in or saying nothing at all.
@@DongoBongKong A few observations. In Kyiv, Russian was spoken frequently, and in Dnipro I think pretty much exclusively. However, I was there for New Years Eve, and it was kind of a bummer to not be able to understand more than about 20 words total out of all the official speeches, etc. Also, while it's good to be able to read Cyrillic in general, being unable to understand a lot of more complex signage was difficult. In Kyiv, I don't think I went into a single restaurant where they weren't able to speak English. However, navigating the train experience to Dnipro would have been very difficult without some Russian language background. The best way to get someone to "correct" your Russian to Ukrainian is to setup a conversation in English, then say simple phrases in Russian. Most people will walk in to the same place and speak Russian and never get "corrected" - they only do it to people who they perceive to not have real understanding of the language. Pick a language and stick to it unless necessary for understanding. I'm used to natural, messy sounding Russian... but even then I was unprepared to deal with it, especially if it came as a surprise. In restaurants, etc, the waiters/waitresses can speak very softly, so as not to disturb others. Also, when someone would ask me for help with something, or if I knew something, the encounters would catch me by surprise and I'd usually miss the entire question and end up staring back at them like an idiot. Not that I could probably help them anyway. For me, the next step before going back will be to find a tutor to practice with to build confidence. I think the skills are there, but unless I had to use them, I was afraid to try. I got some of that - probably a lot of it - while there. But I felt like I needed a lot more.
I just wish more people in America would use English. Seems like the only language in Ukraine that I would have a chance with is Romanian due to Latin roots. Swiss have 4 languages, but they cannot communicate to each other very well in reality. Common language usually is English.
It must be a real shocker for Josh from Australia to see full of feminine gorgeous women in Ukraine compared to the majority of Aussie chicks back home are obese and masculine. No disrespect intended.
....if someone spoke in Russian in Kyiv because they could not speak any Ukrainian, would that be treated in a negative way ? Anyone had any negative experience in Ukraine when speaking Russian ?
In Ukraine you speak Ukrainian! I don't understand why you promote Russian so much. Why don't you leave that for your visit to Russia? Do you go to Italy and speak Portuguese? Right now Ukraine is at war to preserve itself and remain an independent country. Match the history to the language. Very annoying to natives watching.
All the main Ukrainian RUclipsrs (Olga, Taya Ukraine, etc) speak Russian day to day and recommend people to learn Russian first. Russian doesn't only belong to Russia, the entire region of countries has contributed to its development. People will have a hard time if they only understand Ukrainian and travel to Kharkiv, or even Kyiv for example. Yes, people will understand Ukrainian but they will speak to you in Russian. The fact that other nearby countries speak Russian is a nice bonus, too.
I got back from Kiev earlier this week. I am at an A2 or B1 stage in Russian, so people who spoke better English than my Russian usually replied in English and most other in Russian and a few in Ukrainian. I think that Kiev is a really nice place and I am sure that I will go back to Ukraine!
Was there hated it very crowded
I was surprised that there was so few tourists. Where you there during the summer perhaps?
@@Felixxxxxxxxx crowded by locals
historically thru the centures ukrainian language has been spoken in village rural areas while russian has been a big cities language. Citizens understand both.
Это современное положение дел. Киев, например, стал русскоязычным 30 лет назад. В 60 годах прошлого века 80% жителей говорли на украиском. Вот доклад ЦРУ: www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00810A003900890002-0.pdf
Такое изминение произшло из-за тотальной доминации русского языка в СМИ и обучении во ремя СССР. В это время родился еще и суржик.
@@vexillonerd ЦРУ еще те вруны. Лучше спроси у местных РАЗНЫХ киевлян, которые корнями уходят в поколения и сопоставь. Булгаков киевлянин писал, что вообще Киев был естественно русскоязычным. Это же был большой город российской империи
I've spent three months in Ukraine, one month in L'viv and in the service industry, everybody will reply you in Russian, no problems at all because they want your money but if you stop someone in the streets and ask something in russian, be ready to maybe get a negative reaction or be replied in Ukrainian. Young L'viv people might want to help you but they truly can't speak any russian, they will understand but they are not capable of reproducing russian out of their mouths, I experienced that a lot. On the internet, google and etc you will see that they paint those interactive maps saying that Kiev is 50/50 but I lived there for two months and the whole time, passively I was listening to Russian. I don't recall listening to people speaking Ukrainian there so my impression is that people in Kiev only speak russian in their everyday life but you will see lots of people saying that it's 50/50. I've been to Chernigov as well and it's 100% Russian also. That's my personal experience though.
Wrong, you can freely speak Russian in Ukraine as well. If millions of Ukrainians actually speak it as their first and common language, why act so nationalistic and aggressive towards those who cannot speak or have zero interest for the Ukrainian language? Accept it, Russian language is still part of the Ukrainian people and society.
Alright, but first tell that to the millions of Ukrainians who use Russian as their first and most of the time ONLY language! Then we, foreigners, will adapt to that, but only when Ukrainians start speaking ukranians as well, in Odessa, in Kiev, in Kharkiv and etc.
Ukrainian is used on TV and in school. Subjects in college/school/kindergarten must be taught in Ukrainian. TV and radio must be mostly in Ukrainian ( there are quotas). Legal ( including signs) and political discourse and documents must be in Ukrainian. That half of society runs in the national language. But in daily social speech and for business, Russian is preferred. Since you are not a student in Ukraine, do not apparently watch news on TV in Ukrainian, do not listen to songs of read national newspapers, and do not read legal documents and/or political publications, nor listen to the political discourse at the Rada, you are only exposed to the social/business half of the Kyiv society. And I guess, that is just fine.
Thanks Dave - Your posts provide good insights.
Does it not seem strange that the government is so strongly forcing Ukrainian language use on citizens through these quotas and laws, claiming it's for preservation of the national language, while at the same time also allowing schools to so aggressively teach English to all children as part of that same curriculum? If there was any language with a history of trying to dominate the world, and bringing with it a whole lot of cultural influence and change, it seems like it would be English.
@@traviscook7817do you have a better plan of action for the country' s language situation? If so, please stop by the Rada and talk to some ministers. See if u can convince them.in the meantime, ukrainian is taught as a national language bec legal and formal life runs in it, english is taught as a foreign language bec the world outside mostly runs in it
. russian is useless, it brings no money and is in the phase- out process which will take a couple of generations. It took some time to phase out german in czschoslovakia, too.
Thank you for clarifying the situation, it's a very interesting phenomenon that different parts of Ukraine "choose" to speak either of the two tongues and it's great to know more about the actual situation from someone who's spent some time in the country. Definitely inspired to discover those differences by myself. I do agree with you that learning Russian first is normally a better idea. Pozdrowienia z Polski!
With Polish you should be able to learn either pretty quickly and people in the west of Ukraine often speak Polish as well.
Enjoy your videos, you are excellent at explaining many subjects. I cannot quite pinpoint your accent, you mentioned originally Ireland, you actually sound like you have some European accent when you are speaking English even though you are a native English speaker.
Yep, I was born in Ireland and lived in many other European countries like Germany, Belgium, France, Italy and the Netherlands but also in the US for a few years 😊
Hi Conor thanks for another great video
Hi Conor - I discovered your channel after watching your video from 2016 with Jan, talking about Russian vs Ukrainian language use in Lviv. I wanted to find your other videos you mentioned you'd be making about that topic, and imagine my surprise when I clicked on your channel and found this as your most recent video! For a minute I wondered if all you did was make videos talking about Russian/Ukrainian language use. :)
This is actually a topic I'm interested in, and one I get the feeling is actively evolving right now. I get the feeling that answers to this question 5 years ago would be very different from 2 years ago and are different from 2 days ago. Thus, I'm really glad you made a video updating things 2 days ago!
In the summer of 2013, I decided to very casually begin learning Russian, to be able to understand and communicate with Ukrainians. While I'd say I'm still very beginner, I'm excited to finally have the opportunity to visit Kyiv for the New Year this winter. A big part of that for me was the idea that I was finally going someplace where people would speak to me in Russian, and I'd have to do my best to understand and respond. However, after booking the trip, I started reading more and more about how Russian language use was rapidly decreasing in Ukraine, and many would consider it offensive if you used it. There are some posts on travel sites from Ukrainians comparing speaking Russian in Ukraine now to speaking German in France in the late 1940's. The consensus seemed to be that if you were desperate, use Russian, because everyone understands it. But if you wanted to make friends, you would be far better off using Ukrainian.
From your reports, it sounds like that really isn't true, and Russian is not only understood, but will often be a language of initial attempt when meeting people.
I know you speak both Ukrainian and Russian, so maybe you've never experienced this, but I've found in the past that I can often struggle to tell Russian and Ukrainian apart. For me, Ukrainian sounds like Russian I just don't understand yet. Often, there are enough common words between the language, and common sounds, that I think it might be Russian and I just don't understand what someone is trying to say, until I hear the same sentence in Russian and it suddenly all makes sense. Has anyone else here ever experienced this situation? I hope people won't be too offended if I respond to their Ukrainian in Russian, saying I don't understand them. Hopefully they'll hear my horrible accent and know I'm just a stupid American tourist and take pity on me.
Don´t worry about using Russian in Ukraine, it's absolutely fine. Furthermore, if you are an American it's clear you are not a KGB spy. The only downside is that many posters and signs are in Ukrainian instead of Russian, but don't worry, as an American speaking Russian I am sure they will be amazed :)
The only main city I experienced negative reactions speaking Russian was Lviv xD.
I spoke Thai and Japanese in front of an American. One is a tonal language with many weird vowels. The other is a staccato language with limited vowels and almost no diphthongs. The American said that both languages sounded exactly the same to him.
Thanks all for an interesting discussion on this topic. It's clear that not only is this a rapidly evolving topic, it's also one with some very strong opinions, and a lot of national history and identity wrapped up in it as well. I appreciate the information from other tourists, as I feel you offer the most neutral perspectives on what other visitors to the country should be prepared for. I also respect the views of the natives who have posted here, although I fear that the fact you are here, on an English language travel vlog, you may have a very strong pre-existing opinion on the subject. I look forward to visiting Ukraine and doing my best communicate with anyone willing in any language we can find common, as I do believe that this is far more important for the world than arguing over which language people should be speaking in or saying nothing at all.
@@traviscook7817 So how did the trip go? Did you manage to speak some Russian?
@@DongoBongKong A few observations. In Kyiv, Russian was spoken frequently, and in Dnipro I think pretty much exclusively. However, I was there for New Years Eve, and it was kind of a bummer to not be able to understand more than about 20 words total out of all the official speeches, etc. Also, while it's good to be able to read Cyrillic in general, being unable to understand a lot of more complex signage was difficult.
In Kyiv, I don't think I went into a single restaurant where they weren't able to speak English. However, navigating the train experience to Dnipro would have been very difficult without some Russian language background.
The best way to get someone to "correct" your Russian to Ukrainian is to setup a conversation in English, then say simple phrases in Russian. Most people will walk in to the same place and speak Russian and never get "corrected" - they only do it to people who they perceive to not have real understanding of the language. Pick a language and stick to it unless necessary for understanding.
I'm used to natural, messy sounding Russian... but even then I was unprepared to deal with it, especially if it came as a surprise. In restaurants, etc, the waiters/waitresses can speak very softly, so as not to disturb others. Also, when someone would ask me for help with something, or if I knew something, the encounters would catch me by surprise and I'd usually miss the entire question and end up staring back at them like an idiot. Not that I could probably help them anyway.
For me, the next step before going back will be to find a tutor to practice with to build confidence. I think the skills are there, but unless I had to use them, I was afraid to try. I got some of that - probably a lot of it - while there. But I felt like I needed a lot more.
I just wish more people in America would use English. Seems like the only language in Ukraine that I would have a chance with is Romanian due to Latin roots. Swiss have 4 languages, but they cannot communicate to each other very well in reality. Common language usually is English.
How about now. Is speaking Russian taboo now after the war
I expect it to be less popular but cities like Odesa will still use Russian as the main language on a daily basis
You could have mentioned other languages! You seem to forgot about Surzhyk. Also, in cities like Lviv, you can also communicate in Polish
I added it as text in the video. Forgot about it when I was filming.
Nice to know :)
Growing migration from rural to urban areas makes Surzhyk increasingly widespread
👍
It must be a real shocker for Josh from Australia to see full of feminine gorgeous women in Ukraine compared to the majority of Aussie chicks back home are obese and masculine. No disrespect intended.
Maybe that's what he likes? Different people have different types lol.
....if someone spoke in Russian in Kyiv because they could not speak any Ukrainian, would that be treated in a negative way ? Anyone had any negative experience in Ukraine when speaking Russian ?
👍👍
If I'm going to Kharkiv, what language should I learn? Ukrainian or Russian?
Russian is more widely spoken in Kharkiv but either will be understood
@@ConorClyneTsarExperience Thanks for the quick response. This is something I've been worrying about a lot lately 😅
Есть хоть один земляк?
In Ukraine you speak Ukrainian! I don't understand why you promote Russian so much. Why don't you leave that for your visit to Russia? Do you go to Italy and speak Portuguese? Right now Ukraine is at war to preserve itself and remain an independent country. Match the history to the language. Very annoying to natives watching.
You are obviously from Odessa then.
All the main Ukrainian RUclipsrs (Olga, Taya Ukraine, etc) speak Russian day to day and recommend people to learn Russian first. Russian doesn't only belong to Russia, the entire region of countries has contributed to its development. People will have a hard time if they only understand Ukrainian and travel to Kharkiv, or even Kyiv for example. Yes, people will understand Ukrainian but they will speak to you in Russian. The fact that other nearby countries speak Russian is a nice bonus, too.
I dont even speak ukranian but my family is from donbass so that's why.
@Warrior ZX yes even someone in lvov or Ivano-Frankovsk can speak Russian. After 300 years together