Vinland Saga | A New Favorite
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2022
- This is my spoiler filled discussion on Vinland Saga
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This is my spoiler filled discussion on Vinland Saga, can't wait to discuss.
Who are your favorite characters in the first season/arc?
Askeladd.
Like every single one?🤣
Really, I absolutely loved ALL the characters.
Bjorn is my favourite character in the 1st season. I just love his longing for a friend in Askeladd even though he knew that Askeladd hates the Danes. Its truly heartbreaking. Imagine being so loyal to a person who hates you.
Plus in the beginning of the story I felt like while picking the mushrooms he was showing Thorfinn which ones were edible and which were poisonous.
For the longest time my favourite Character in Manga was Zoro from One Piece, Until I came across Askeladd... Still yet to find someone who tops him in my eyes!
I'd recommend waiting until s2 finishes airing for the next video, even though it'll take quite a while yet.
As someone from a nordic country with ties to viking ancestry it's almost embarrassing how good a Japanese author managed to capture the feel of viking sagas. It's one of the absolute best representations in media to date and it makes me love it all the more, and wish that other authors would treat it with the same respect and care.
Japanese authors (in general) know the meaning of respect. Maybe some western authors can learn a thing or two about that.
Oda loves Nordic culture also. Hope we get a 1-1.5 year arc for Elbaf to see him expand his knowledge there.
@@mray4784 Very selective thinking. There are probably plenty of Japanese authors who don’t do the necessary research and plenty of western authors who do.
You’re just noticing it because it stands out more when a Japanese author does it right.
The only issue i have with Vinland Saga are the humor and the overexageratting action anime like which I don't think those things are really vikings
@@ahmadiskandarzulkarnain5833 I agree with you in that regard. At the same time, I don't view Vinland saga as a historical piece, but more as taking the exaggerated tales passed down by vikings at face value. It's more about capturing the emotion and feel of the stories -- with some respect to the time period -- than being grounded and realistic.
"You have no enemies. No one in this world is your enemy." - Thor.
It is such reflective line and speaks to humanity. The only enemies that we have are the ones that we make ourselves. We are all influenced by culture and ideas that we have enemies. But shredding it all, we are all one people who have families and loves.
That's not true. If you own anything, there's always someone who wants to take it. Even if you don't own anything, there are people who want to exploit you or just make you suffer becouse they can. Thors statement here is completely false. It's nice wishful thinking, but that's all it is. Any animal has an enemy as well, becouse of the food chain and natural selection.
‘Everyone is a slave to something’ probably one of my favourite lines
Thors was Christian before he knew christianity 🥺
@@felixowen2693 that's my favourite line as well
@@nomnombr you mean the type of Christianity that doesn't execute heathens right?
This will probably get explained by others, but the Monk's point of the love Ragnar showed Canute not being love but discrimination is about humans being unable to love indiscriminately like God does. God loves all the same. Human love however, is about caring more about someone than others. That's where the discrimination part comes in.
Divine love, perfect love, or agape is something we humans cannot achieve, and the Monk blames this on the first sin humanity committed -the apple- as the reason we're unable to embody this love. Canute sees this and feels betrayed, and that's why he turns away from God. He had a divine experience, but it was a negative one.
This one. Canute is a dum dum
It's so cool to me that Canute turns away from God as the monk regains his faith
Thank you for breaking this down, I never understood this part in the anime.
And the development in Canute in that moment is the best "short time" character development I have seen/read in fiction. (I think)
You can find it referenced in the monks earlier discussion with the warrior brothers, when he hints how they wont ever know love (divine love)
My two favourite scenes (I'm an anime-only):
1. When Helga demands that Thors name their daughter, leading to him becoming scared of battle.
2. When Ylva keeps working to not have to deal with her grief, then crying when Helga stops her.
The Helga scene is also my favourit from that episode. Whenever I start thinking about Vinland Saga it tend to remember it. Helga's words were bare bones but so very powerful.
‘Welp, this truly has been a Vinland saga’ ~ Askelad.
My favourite scene 😊
@@felixowen2693 lmao
Those are great moments and it's a tie for me when Askalad starts talking about them living in the end times.
I think there are so many scenes that show that Askeladd has genuine compassion for those around him. When he gives the gold bracelet to Alti, and tells him never to come back to the battlefield. When he gives Bjorn the warrior's death he deserves. When he sacrifices himself for Canute's future. When he lets Thorfinn's quest for revenge die with him.
What the monk told him *is* biblicly sound. It´s complex and sounds unreasonable the first time you hear/read it, but it´s not unfounded. What Vinland Saga does here is make a serious examination of arguements for agape, which is a classical greek word for love. Which also happens to be the language the old testament was first written in. It means to love people unconditionally, which is what the god of the bible is described as doing. But what is meant by unconditional love? Well, that´s up for debate, but what Yukimura is going with here is that someone who loves unconditionally can never put one person above another. No doubt Ragnar viewed Canute as more important than anyone else, but that is precisely why it wasn´t love as the monks views things. He says death loves true, because death does not discriminate. It does not set conditions and it does not change it´s mind depending on the person adn the sitiuation. When it comes, it comes.
An example of what would be the monks idea of unconditional love is Thors death. Thors could have easily killed Askeladd and his men in order to save his son and the people from his village. But that would have meant discriminating in favour of the people that he loves and taking the lives of his enemies. That would have gone agianst the conclusions he came to during the battle where he abandoned the Jomsvikings. So instead of only loving his clsoest he also chose to love his enemies and gave up his own life to avoid anyone else but him dying, knowing that Askeladd would honor the promise. He didn´t put Throfinns and the vilalgers lives above that of Askeladd and his mercenaries, but spared all of them in exchange for his own. That is the closest thing to agape one can achieve in a world as brutal as that of Vinland Saga - according to Yukimura. Mind, this isn´t a reflection of Yukimuras actual ideals, but more of an examination of what conclusions people could come to about love in the harshest of settings a human could experience. Canute comes to the conclsuion that even if God is a being that can love unconditionally, humans cannot ("The creation of God is so beutiful the why is there no love in hte hearts of men?"). With the Thors-example in mind you could alos call it "unselfish love". Removing your own desires for the benefit of everyone.
The reason I think Merphy says it´s "not biblicly sound" and "doesn´t exist in Canutes faith" is because she views it from the perspetive of a 21st century human who undesrtand 21st century christianity. Instead we should take this as a possible interpetation someone could make to rationalize their harsh experinces if they were to live in scuh an unforgiving world. Or that´s how I view it. But I´ve also re read it, rewatched it and discuseed Vinland Saga for a few years now so I have the benefit of hindsight. I think a lot of people have this reaction, and simillarly shocked or confused reactions to scenes like the one where Askeladd kills the people of the village to feed his men, because they´re not prepared to how much thought and research Yukimura has put into making Vinland Saga. Which can throw you off when it starts seriously examining the meaning of love on quite a few levels above what most authors who have ever touched the trope did.
Sorry if this is wordy. I’m not always good at being concise when making a point lol.
It remains very compelling, the monk obviously existed in a state of prelest, or spiritual delusion, but his heresy was entirely understandable given his isolation from the church and his spiritual father and the traumatic events he bore witness to.
Canute does emerge from his teachings with an image of an idealized Christian King, but inverted; in defiance of God, an icon of Anti-Christ.
Which is why the later chapter following a certain viking was so disappointing. Compound that with a time skip over their voyage to Constantinople... I say I'll catchup one of these days, but I remain unconvinced.
+++
It is biblical sound, mainly because the bible is very weird and i stop there. But its a lot acollection of stories and not that coherent internally. Ther is no bible canon , its really from many authors, and best to say its weird and not really coherent.
And i take it that he was already shaken by the things he saw on the journey, and he struggled all along, it just got fully to him now.
@@marocat4749 Canon as a term only exists because there was and is a need for a Biblical Canon.
If there is no Canon, there could be no heresy and there's plenty of heresy.
It is undoubtedly a weird and mysterious thing. If it was simply understood, there would be no need for teachers and theologians.
That's why the church never advocated Sola Scripura, by scripture alone, as sufficient for an individual's understanding.
It's like teaching someone the basics of algebra then giving them a calculus test. It sets you up for failure.
Even the church fathers did not arrive at the correct understanding in isolation. Heresies were seldom started by illiterate peasants, but learned elders in prelest.
too much love can turn to hate and too much hate can turn to love. Thats the concept and ragnar loved knut so much he became overprotective of him and overprotected children are weak
I wish you had discussed about Bijorn's death because that was one of the emotional moments of the series for me I actually cried which is very rare. It's another example of when Askelaad showed his heart. He hated vikings, his whole crew including Bijorn and himself, but he did consider Bijorn his friend which can be seen with the amount of trust he had in Bijorn. But yeah this series is right up there as one of my most favorite series of all time.
He hated more than Vikings, he hated Norsemen as a people. The whole ethnicity.
Askeladd is the best character EASY. He’s so complex and multilayered, his motivations and backstory made his character so rich, he was brilliant, smart ruthless, I truly admire Askeladd. And his final decision as heartbreaking as it was made me respect him even more because I understand what led him to make that decision.
Yuh and also a rapist
No wonder you admire him
Fr fr, rereading the part where he asked Thors to become the leader for his ragtag group was painful
Best character at the beginning. As Thorfinn continues his own personal journey, he just turns into a fascinating and well rounded character in his own right, and easily is the best character himself moving forward
@@BatTCK High shoes to fill
Thorfinn is much better but Askeladd is top 3
I was NOT expecting this! I'm so glad you enjoyed it! My audience hounded me to watch it for months to the point where I was getting annoyed by the requests and when I finally watched it, I made it about three episodes in and ended up dropping it because I wasn't enjoying it. It wasn't until about a year later during Viewer's Choice Week where my subscribers forced me to get through the entire series and I was so glad that I did. By Episode 5, I was totally hooked.
Your change of opinion on this series in your twitter thread was amazing. Its really fun to read it again in hindsight.
Cant wait for your opinion on the next arc. It really is something else. And really defines why this series is a seinen manga and not a shonen. (Im not talking about cool action packed battles).
It’s SO GOOD Roger. I was so surprised at how much this series won my heart
I really don't understand this "3 ep rule" that people seem to use.
You have to take in account the context, and here the context is that this is a highly rated series, by a lot of people, praised by a large majority of those who watched/read it. So giving it 3 ep, especially when these eps are just a setting of characters/worldbuilding (I liked how the show took its time personnally, but ig it's not for everyone) is not enough and it seems obvious to me.
Few of your takes also were confusing, like when you said you didn't like the violence at first (in the part of the series that isn't violent at all).
@@riwen0851 I feel like the 3 episode test can only really be applied to TV shows like Breaking Bad for example. An episode for a TV show runs for 45-60 minutes so naturally there's more time to develop the characters and the world in less episodes.
That is awesome! I love series that surprise me like that!
I also really love how the last chapter/episode in this arc is called “end of the prologue”
That scene where he raids that poor village and then slaughters them is a real reminder these people are pirates/vikings. I remember watching it and being kinda shook, because I had started to really love the crew and kinda forgot about how much evil they were doing to innocent people. At a certain point most of the people they were fighting were also in war and fighting back THEN there is the village.
It shows there is nothing to glorify about these vikings yea you have the flashy fights but not one point does the manga frame them as glorious badasses
@@islandboy9381 Extend that to any army at any point in time where there's a war. It's not good, it's not pretty, and the regular guy is the one that will pay for it. Yes, that includes yours if your country was ever in war on foreign soil. Civilian massacres, violations, plain robbery, they've done all of it and more
I understand Merphy's intent with her discussion schedule, but I don't think she'll be able to resist immediately sharing her thoughts on the Farmland arc.
She will probably love it.
And itsjust an odd shift, else its really good and laying the groundwork for later, and thorfin. And its hella dark, so i think she will love it.
Farmland is the best manga arc of all time
also i think that most people have read the manga, especially if they’re watching these types of videos on it.
Called it
I saw that Daniel Green was starting Vinland Saga too! The crossover between you two is so satisfying. I love both of your perspectives.
Vinland Saga surely has one of the best prologue stories in all of manga! Now I’m ready to shed tears with Merph once she finishes the farming arc 😭
In all of fiction*
Does anyone thinks merphy is very hot !
She has such a bookworm nerdy girl vibe & I've crush on her.....uhhhhh😩😍
Dropped after the farming arc
@@lizardman1303 L
@@lizardman1303 L (1)
The conversation between Canute and the priest about love was so profound
I watched the anime first and I cried A LOT in that episode, it was just indescribable. Just remembering it made me shed a tear.
And the development in Canute in that moment, is the best "short time" character development I have seen/read in fiction. (I think)
In the anime it was good
Nice
I love Vinland Saga, the world, the characters and specifically the journey of Thorfinn, is just something I can't put in words! ❤️
Bjorn is my favourite character in the 1st season. I just love his longing for a friend in Askeladd even though he knew that Askeladd hates the Danes. Its truly heartbreaking.
Plus in the beginning of the story I felt like while picking the mushrooms he was showing Thorfinn which ones were edible and which were poisonous.
VINLAND SAGA is insane. I’m always impressed because this is obviously a manga but it’s all about Norse culture. Yukimura exercises his knowledge and research of the Scandinavian history, while also putting the “shonen” spin on it. For me, it creates a really unique fusion that can only be described as VINLAND SAGA. Bravo, Yukimura.
Also the anime pops OFF.
IMO the Monk and Canutes discussion is one of the best parts of this first arc, as it serves as a microcosm of the series messages as a whole. The fact that the monks true love and Thors idea of a true warrior are one and the same, just shown through different perspectives. Like when the 2 brothers are telling the priest about Thors and he has such an intense reaction, because Thors displayed what he’s looking for. But I get that the word “discrimination” can sound a little harsh. I get why some people wouldn’t jive with it. But then again, it’s all about perspective. I guess I never had a problem with it personally, it seemed like a moment of transcending our own world and letting go. Now whether Canute gets that message or not remains to be seen, because Thorfinn certainly didn’t understand his fathers intent. But all in all I’m just really glad you love this series! Askeladd is definitely my favorite character in this first arc, though Thorfinn definitely takes that place with the second arc, with my fav side character being Anne. (the girl from the village)
oh yes I love the parallel in the monks message and Thors message and how much the prince and Throfinn's stories seem to be paralleled. It's another reason why it looks to me that prince could possibly going down a dark road, just because narratively, it would be interesting to see Throfinn climb up from his darkest place while Canute spirals downward.
That said, it was just that Canute accepted this abrupt change in everything he believed in without wrestling with it much at all that bothered me, not the change itself :)
Yeah that’s fair
That conversation touched my soul in a indescribable way
@@merphynapier42I think the reason Canute didn't struggle with the Monk's definition of Love is because he decided Ragnar's "discrimination" was more important to him than God's "Love." He decided it was impossible for humans to Love everyone equally, to essentially be perfect, so he vowed to create a paradise on Earth where humans could attain happiness the way he was happy with Ragnar.
I was trying to wrap my head around that parallel between the monk and Thors' ideals. But to me it seems Thors' ideals caused the monk to have a revelation based on an imperfect interpretation of Thors' ideals.
Like Thors believed true warriors are ones that put down their swords and live to protect and build their community and not destroy others. But I think the priest took "a true warrior is one who no longer needs a sword" as "a dead warrior no longer needs a sword". Which makes sense considering that dieing and going to Valhalla is proof of being a true warrior in viking culture as well. And of course a dead warrior to the monk is one who can no longer hurt others and can only give themselves back to the earth, thus this is the perfect love that every human, who is inherently evil, can give back to the world. Everything else is just humans discriminating against each other for no real reason other then their own selfish desires. Which itself is rooted in the idea that human love is entirely selfish. This does not actually go against the scriptures as this interpretation would mean that the first and last time humans ever experienced true love untainted by sin was Adam and eve for each other, before biting the apple.
This series is freaking IMMACULATE. I read the entire first and second arcs while I was on deployment and me and my buddies just couldn't shut up about how incredible it was. I made it back from being overseas in time for the 3rd arc to finish up and I, for whatever reason, didn't pick it back up again. I think you've inspired me to go back to the 2nd arc and reread it 🤗 I'll try to get my new-to-anime best friend and try to get him to watch it as well. I've been successful with it thus far (AoT, Cowboy Bebop, Death Note, FMAB) and I think maybe he'd enjoy it!
To answer your questions: I honestly can't choose a favorite MAIN character (tie between Thorkel, Thorfinn, and Askeladd I suppose) but my favorite side characters are probably Thorfinn's sister (Ylva I think her name was?) and Leif. I don't exactly recall what I love about them so much since I kinda dropped it so long ago but I'm very excited to get back on it with you in the Patreon!
IMO Vinland Saga is an absolute and beautiful masterpiece. I just can't praise it enough, I don't have enough words to describe how much I love it and how magnificent I think it is, I wouldn't do it justice.
The conversations between the priest and Canute has to be one of my favorite dialogues in all of fiction. Which also makes the priest one of my favorite minor side characters of all time.
00:00:00 ⟾ Intro - *War arc* : c001-054, anime,
00:00:43 ⟾ *Overview* - *Characters* : action, plot, setting,
00:02:24 ⟾ Plot - Thorfinn: revenge
00:03:08 ⟾ Characters - *Thorfinn* : Thors, honour, revenge, unravelling (death of Askeladd), path of destruction
00:06:06 ⟾ Characters - *Askeladd* : complexity, Lydia, mentor, cunning, mercy & slaughter
00:09:01 ⟾ Askeladd - not ‘hero’, not easy to define
00:10:10 ⟾ Askeladd - analysis, strategy, sacrifice
00:11:10 ⟾ Thorfinn - losing himself, *unravelling*
00:12:53 ⟾ Askeladd - final moments, helping Thorfinn
00:15:00 ⟾ Characters - *Thorkell* : warrior, battle, humour honour, alliance
00:15:53 ⟾ *Characters* - Thorkell, Thors, Leif, Ragnar, Ylva {pronounced “yuruv~a”}
00:16:37 ⟾ Characters - *Canute* : *complaints* ,losing Ragnar, Willibald speech, emotional struggle
00:21:01 ⟾ Canute - corruption arc?, leadership?
00:22:22 ⟾ *Overview* - characters, depiction of war, emotion
00:23:35 ⟾ Future Plans - next video after s2?
00:24:40 ⟾ {Merphy’s brother refuses to listen}
00:24:57 ⟾ Outro
00:25:24 ⟾ Promo - Future Plans
00:25:52 ⟾ [Credits]
☕
Hero
GOAT
On the Monk's speech, it actually is consistent with his faith. It's a bit more pessimistic than it would normally be presented, but its just original sin doctrine. Everything humans do is tainted by Adam having eaten the fruit in the garden, thus, even a seemingly pure emotion like love is, when practiced by humans, conditional.
Is this like the Catholic doctrine of it?
@@islandboy9381 its christian doctrine, anyone who believes in genesis and the significance of adam and eve eating the apple of wisdom believes in the flawed existence of man
I still can't believe you're experiencing my 2 favorite series back to back. This arc tells such an amazing story, with an antagonist that turns out to be one of the most charismatic and likable characters in storytelling as a whole, despite him doing some truly despicable things. Combine that with an amazing revenge story that turns out to be so much more that just revenge, and an incredible political drama, and you have a once in a lifetime reading experience on your hands.
I can't wait for you to see what the story has in store for Thorfinn and the other characters in the next couple of arcs. I want to comment on Canute, but I truly don't want to spoil anything.
Great video, I will be revisiting this many times in the future :)
Wonderful analysis, Merphy! Your praise for the character work in Vinland Saga is well founded. I'm also deeply impressed so far by how well Makoto Yukimura grounded his Manga in the source material of the Icelandic sagas. Very exciting!
I'm so happy that you've enjoyed Vinland Saga.
Just like One Piece is part of the Shonen Big 3 with Bleach and Naruto, Vinland Saga has been considered one of the Big 3 Seinen series along with Berserk and Vagabond, which is 100% deserves. It's such a fantastic story, and all of the characters are absolutely fantastic. Askeladd and Thorkell will always be two of my absolute favorite fictional characters of all time for sure.
Monster is one of the big 3 Seinen series with Berserk and Vaganbond. But people often include Kingdom and Vinland Saga in the list. Some people even include Goodnight Punpun.
@@bendover7841 Yeah
Kingdom is the one in the Big 4
Monster is in a diff category
@@bendover7841 honestly it pains me to say, since Monster used to be my favourite manga ever but id put Kingdom in the big 3 seinen over it
there's no such thing as a big 3 or 4 seinen. It was a unique phenomenon related to sales and rivalry that will probably never be replicated again. Are they top 5 seinen series? Probably, but "Big 3" is something else entirely.
Vinland Saga - one of the 4 pillars of seinen manga (alongside Vagabond, Berserk and Kingdom). Great series. I stoped reading after chapter 120 and I am waiting for it to end so I can read it in one go. Waiting for each chapter is torture.
You missed Kento Ankokuden Cestvs (part 1), Kendo Shitouden Cestvs (part 2)
Thorfinn has essentially lost his second father figure with Askelad. I honestly could have watched you talk about each main/side character for 4 hours straight and love every second.
This video is a beautiful hommage to the prologue ! Thanks Merphy, it was really cool to watch ! This prologue shows a beautiful bond between a mentor and a child learning to be a man despite his quest of vengeance. Can't wait to see your analyses of the next arcs. Thanks you so much for this video that I'm going to rewatch so many times !
Can’t wait for you to get to chapter 154. Left me speechless
Great review! Don’t wait til season 2 for the next video. Right this very moment!
Wow you really liked this one! Its a great story, and I think since you liked this, you'd love Golden Kamuy, which is one of my all time favorites as well. It has a really unique setting, taking place during the Sino-Russian wars and focusing on the indigenous people of Japan and Siberia. It has a phenomenal mystery plot with several different factions all moving independently, and an incredible cast of characters. Can't recommend enough.
Yesss!! I've recently started reading Golden Kamuy and I LOVE it!!
@@DanaArena the anime is also fantastic (sans the occasional CGI bear). The voice acting, the beautiful background art etched in purple, the Ainu cooking and survival skills, and the numerous incredibly gay scenes are all just amplified a ton by the work put into the anime.
@@connorthornberg Omg, now I MUST see the anime!
I watched this for the first time at the start of the year and decided to stay anime only and wait for season 2. The more distance I get from my watch, the clearer I know that Askeladd is the best character I have ever seen in any form of fiction. Series is truly a masterpiece and I can't wait for more from it and you.
Cannot wait to hear your thoughts on the slave arc. Most definitely the peak of Vinland.
If she likes the series this much during the first arc then i cant imagine what she will think once she reads the Farmland arc.
I can't wait to hear what you think about the next arc. It's incredible ; so deep.
I literally just finished reading the first book when you uploaded! Sucks that manga gets rarely shipped to my country because I want to dedicate physically reading this story after hearing how good the manga is. Hope you'll enjoy as you progress ahead!!
YEESSS!! Vinland was so underrated when it first came out, glad to see it made its way to you hahaha it's such a great story. the anime really gives the series justice with its adaptation, especially the last few episodes *chef's kiss*. It's so crazy because all that was JUST the prologue. That being said, you'll love the character development moving forward.
Thorkell punching the horse is THE most based moment in manga AND anime
Askeladd's death also affects Thorfinn because Askeladd ended up raising him whether they wanted it or not: he became a weird, twisted father figure for Thorfinn. That's why, even though he keeps trying to reach for Askeladd in the final scene, he lets go of the dagger: he realizes he didn't only want revenge but that he, deep down, ended up appreciating Askeladd's life lessons (which are actually a very pragmatic and cynical version of Thors' life lessons).
EDIT: And yeah others already told you, Canute's development kinda requires some christian history and terminology to understand the monk's speech. The monk was enlightened when the brothers told him about Thors because what Thors did looked like godly love where he loved his enemies so much as to not kill them, even sacrificing himself in order to not kill his enemies. That's why the monk then says "I doubt your love" after they murder the village when running away from Thorkell. I don't know if it's just because I understood it quickly, but it's probably my favourite scene because Canute was already wrestling with the idea of "father loves son always" while his father wanted to kill him
I'm so glad Merphy is reading Vinland Saga. And Daniel's also going to read it. I can't I'm so happy
I broke down and decided to read ch. 55, 56 and Book 5 (couldn't wait for the anime) , IT WAS AMAZING, loved every second. Makoto Yukimura is an amazing writer... Can't wait to see it animated
Thorfin's gotta be my favorite, especially after the first season, so in the Manga only arcs. He is such an intriguing character.
the monk was essentially saying, “if you love some people more than others you are discriminating.” And that “you should love everyone equally because that’s how God loves.”
I could hardly wait for this video! You did an amazing job describing this story. I'm a manga reader and I can definitely vouch that next arc is not going to disappoint you, if anything it will be even more amazing than the prologue. Any video that I get on this series I will be happy to watch and talk about❤️
As for favourite characters I would consider Askeladd, Thorfinn, Canute and Thorkell to be kind of main characters of the prologue. Amongst them Canute is my favourite (I totally get your perspective of him and I'm not judging you for not being 100% on board with his character arc). I loved him from the moment he was introduced because he represented such a stark contrast to all these men, their violent lifestyle, their cruel and selfish needs, the ideal of glory and manhood that they persue. I knew from the beginning that if he were going to survive he would have to change but I'm still glad that he doesn't become same as those surrounding him but keeps certain dignity about himself and this idea of paradise that he tries to accomplish . Now when it comes to his whole transformation. I think the reason why it's portrayed as him instantly realising and accepting something is because it's meant to show us that he has always seen and known this. He was just refusing to see the truth, gaslighting himself in a way because he himself didn't wish to believe that a father (any father of his - God, Sweyn or Ragnar) couldn't love his son. I think the scene where priest is praying and doubting God and his love really points out his insecurity with the overreaction he has. No one who is truly secure about his faith and his belief in God's good will would have such a meltdown. Priest is quite an interesting character but he is definitely a refined taste😂 I find his idea of love really thought provoking. When he says a person can never love like a God or Jesus Christ he is quite correct. We can't even comprehend that kind of love as humans because loving everyone equally would mean loving no one. It can be connected to the type of love Greeks used to call agape. I feel like I can talk about this for a whole day but that just tells you what a good story it is when one scene can encapsulate so much philosophy and discussion. Canute will surely be an interesting character to follow. After you catch up you can even read about him because he was an actual King who ruled in the beginning of 11th century. I will not say anything further to not spoil but he was quite a someone that's for certain.
As for my fave side character it's actually a character that appears only in one chapter but is pretty much a protagonist in her moment. And that is Anne, a girl who steals a ring and witnesses her entire family killed by Askeladd and his men. I think what that chapter and episode does is wonderful. It reminds us what kind of people we are truly following and asks a question : are these people you are cheering for? Are these monstrosities that you support when you applaud Askeladd's schemes or Thorfinn's badass dagger wielding skills. Later on when he is talking about his past and his mother Askeladd says that in the moment his father tried to kill her he thought if Artorius doesn't show up now he never will. In this exact moment while he is about to slaughter an entire village it's ironic to think that he is the exact person that Artorius should be slaying to protect the innocent. Anne in this way does an amazing job of reminding us who real victims of all of this are and her monologue at the end when she realises how insignificant her ring theft is compared to these men who kill without batting an eye and aren't afraid of God and his punishment is magnificent. Truly a chapter that can be read as a whole little story by itself
Thank you for this video!! Vinland Saga is my favorite manga series ever and it makes me so happy to see youtubers who aren’t only focused on anime get into it. It’s the only manga I’ve read that I stay caught up on without ever falling behind lol it’s just SOOO GOOD. My favorite character will forever be Thorfinn. I love witnessing his journey and how he develops as a person throughout the manga and I love that the author doesn’t shy away from truly challenging him. He’s really amazing and sooo good as a main character!
I myself read this manga all the way to the latest chapter (back then) while I was serving in the army. Quite fitting I would say considering the series' focus on war and violence, and what it does to people. Had a lasting impact on me for sure and I love that you are covering it.
Finally!!! I'm so excited and happy that you finally read Vinland Saga!!! Just like what you said, rather than presenting the characters as good or bad and heroes or villains, it presents everything that makes the characters as humans, which includes the good, the bad and every shade in between. It shows both the complexity and at the same time the simplicity of being who they are from how they were brought up, their beliefs, their environment, the principles they hold on to, etc. Vinland Saga wasn't an easy read for me, but it made me re-think and re-examine the different sets of beliefs and values that this manga showed through the different characters and situations they were in and try to view things in order to understand the characters, too :)))
Askeladd is my favorite fictional character of all time. There’s just something about his aura that moves me.
Can’t wait to see your thoughts on the second big story arc. The S2 adaptation will be beautiful.
Bro, I would actually follow him into war.
@@bananawithaknife I love him but I wouldn't wanna be a pawn to his schemes lol
@@rodvincetolosa9386 Fight with him
Knowing that you're a hated pawn to Askeladd yet he showed some level of comraderie to you, that hit deep
Same
Makoto Yukimura relly went above and beyond with Vinland Saga, using several old semi-historical norse tails , real history wile creating characters that both embody and disect the messages of those stories.
Glad you are spreading the good word.
(ironically enough this manga helped me with the old saga classes as a wee icelandic lad)
I love the first opening song in the Vinland Saga anime because of the lyrics: "I've paid my dues, I've sold my soul, so tell me what is left for me when I've given up everything"
Great video Merphy! Vinland Saga is truly one of the best pieces of fiction I’ve ever read!
My favorite main character is Askeladd by far! Favorite side character probably Bjorn!
You’re in for a treat in the next arc! Truly amazing character development and storytelling!
I’d rather you make a video when you finish the second arc of the manga since the anime is still several months away 😂 it’s nice seeing you talk about Vinland saga!
For me the love/discrimination talk was amazing. It's a shift in perspective. True love is unconditional which is impossible in real life. Showing true care for another often requires you to prioritize them over others thus It's discrimination. I would argue that Canute didn't need to fight this idea because is to unreasonable for him to entertain. The discrimination he experienced was beautiful and shouldn't be cast aside. Thus he will create a world where others can experience the same discrimination and prove to God that such a paradise is possible. For me this was such a fascinating twist on the idea of love and care
The best side character in manga history is Thorkell, every time he’s on screen the stories pace increases by 10x but he also brings some of the best comic relief in the whole manga/show. I get the feeling this story will end soon and I already miss it.
I'm glad that you brought up the problems you had with Canute. I never noticed that before and I wish that he would have wrestled more with it as I think that would've been cool. I'm excited to hear your thoughts about his development in the next arc.
I just considered that Askeladd took on the roll of a father figure for Thorfin. The speach that he gave him while dying was to try to calm him so that he doesnt die. He knew that Thorfin sow him as a father figure and will react irrationally. Also i do think Askeladd even in the end took a rational decision, it is just that his rational decision was to sacrifice himself for his homeland, a lot of people think that was a rash decision but i think that is actually what real heroes do. In my mind Askeladd is a great person with all his faults i see him as a great character.
Btw glad you picked up Vinland saga! Hope you pick up the old ones like Trigun or in worst case Berserk :D next!
Askelad is one of the best written antagonist i ever seen in fiction , his charisma , backstory , actions , everything is amazing
He's not even an antagonist at this point
That's an exaggeration
Not an antag
@@dhruvbharija172 Nop
Funny how charisma can make people ignore he caves in to his revenge as much as Thorfinn only more tactfully and he doesn't care wheter he murders innocents to get it
I watched the anime and the speech the monk gave (specifically about what love IS) has had a profound impact on how I see some things. I love it.
Favourite characters include Askeladd and Thorkell.
Canute was introduced as a devoutly religious person. His fundamental shift is with his relationship with his God. It makes sense that he no longer feared men when his challenge is to a deity itself. That kind of resolve can change a person.
Vinland is amazing and easily in my top 3. I cant wait till you read Golden Kamuy, in it you cant find a single character that you can point and say that he's boring. Not even a single one not even a single side character. Its amazing and super unique and there are so many characters in the first 12 episodes there are like 20 characters all of them extremely entertaining.
Knowing a bit of Anglo Saxon history, I laughed out loud when I first watched and Cnut was portrayed as some timid little boy! I personally immediately started reading the manga as soon as I finished the first series (the next arc is so bloody good) so I'd love it if you carried on reading, but I get the feeling the majority of the fanbase is anime only, unlike one piece, so probs best if you wait for the second season.
Thorkell and Askeladd's voice actor's also voiced Uvogin and Nobunaga from the phantom troupe in Hunter. Glad to see you started Vinland Saga it's a beautiful story 😭.
Vinland Saga is truly a masterpiece and I'm very happy you're seeing its potential after just this arc
As far as the monk stuff, the way I interpret things, the monk is incredibly cynical reconciling the faith he went into the world with and the cruelty he experienced. He was disillusioned by love on an individual level and turned to contemplate macro level love, the kind of love that a God or a king "should" have if they were to love a world with obvious cruelties. Canute was raised with kindness but the love he was shown didn't prepare him for the world and politics that would eventually try to kill him. Given his political importance, the kindness he was raised with had its shortcomings. It was only a near spontaneous metamorphosis that allowed him to turn his mentally around. Ragnar's love had no intention of preparing him for the realities of Canute's life, circumstances so out of his control that Ragnar's death was required for it to work saved Canute's life. Choices made out of indifference to Canute's happiness are what saved his life. I think the difference between the two kinds of love are scale, a comparison for that would be stuff like physics, the "rules" as we understand them are different for atoms and molecules than it is planets and stars. As for how that relates to love, the monk is too cynical to make that distinction between a family loving each other and a king need to make tough decisions for what they deem the greater good in a harsh world. I think there is also a lot to say about otherizing people and acting rashly out of fear in the name of protecting loved ones which perpetuates war. There is just a lot to say but thanks for reading this to the end ig.
In my interpretation, the monk was looking for unconditional love. A love for all humans that comes with no strings attached. I forgot the term for it but this is a type of love that Greek philosophers defined. I believe it was called eudamonia? But I might be wrong. But that is why the monk said that Ragnar's affection was not love because it was love that was only directed at one person and not to all(which is why he mentions how Ragnar let the villagers die). Then the concept of death is brought up, and the monk has concluded that death is real love because death is unconditional to all living beings, and so is nature, and the world. That is the epiphany that Canute and the monk had which is why Canute at that moment casted away God's teachings because he realized how absurd the natural laws were and decided to take matters into his own hands. That is my interpretation of the monk and his love theme.
you are totally correct its about unconditional love crazy she missed that
I'm happy you're with us on this longship on our journey to Vinland!
Please make more videos on Vinland Saga!
Yukimura-sensei is a masterful story-teller, and what really captivated me and impressed me was the amazing character introspective, character development and the many philosophical themes the series have. The series presents an honest look at the reality and brutality of war in a culture that intertwines honor with war. It poses questions about religion and faith, explores the concepts of discrimination and love while depicting the real-life consequences of ordinary citizens due to politics and royal intrigue.
“What does it mean to be free?”
“Can we really have a world free of slaves, war and senseless killing?”
“What does it mean to be a true warrior?”
It makes you think about the romanticism of war, the ideals of heroism, as well as the positive and negative impact of travel exploration while contemplating about the meaning of pacifism and morality throughout the series. The concepts and ideals of war, peace and freedom are constantly being explored by different characters throughout the series with the readers getting to view them through the perspectives of these characters. The futility and senselessness of war are never shoved in the readers/watchers' faces but instead makes you ponder and reflect upon it as you follow the conversations, reflections and actions of the characters.
By the way, if you're looking for another masterpiece manga to read, I highly recommend Monster by Naoki Urasawa, easily the best psychological, mystery, thriller anime/manga I've ever seen.
This series absolutely rocks all the way through, can't wait for merph to review farm arc, I also think Canute gets better over time as a character
Just like Onepiece is known as one of the Big 3's of Shonen (Naruto and Bleach being the other 2). The Seinen genre have their own Big 4's Berserk, Kingdom, Vagabond & Vinland Saga.
Sorry buy Naruto, Bleach and One Piece are only the big 3 of their time (one piece probably deserves to move to an "all-timer"). But the seinen you mentioned are pretty much all-time great. Nevertheless, it's still missing a lot of great seinen (such as Monster) that can be higher and lower depending on your taste.
This is why I never make list unless it's very restricted to "the greatest of X years".
Big 5 - Kento Ankokuden Cestvs (part 1), Kendo Shitouden Cestvs (part 2)
I knew this would be loved. Because it’s just good
Askeladd was my favorite main character and Bjorn was my favorite side character hands down. Loved the scene where Askeladd killed Bjorn and told him he was his only friend.
Definitely hope you do more videos about the series there is just so much to unpack here even in the prologue.
The "Love is death" scene is one of my favorites in all of anime.
It takes medieval philosophy and presents it through a lens of pessimistic nihilism.
Which makes sense to me, because the world of Vinland Saga is brutal and grim.
The monk is basically making the case for original sin to canute.
Canute believes that deep down people are good and that love is good and that the bonds between individuals constitute love.
The monk instead implies that people cannot love because people are inherently selfish. True love would care for all things equally and not discriminate between what is valuable and what is not. Therefore people are not good and do not love. They just discriminate between what they like and what they don't.
Canute has seen an overwhelming amount of evidence that people suck and are evil and so this new world view dispels the cognitive dissonance that his original beliefs were causing him, "lifting the fog" as he says.
Yeah and I think the monk formulated all of this starting from his contemplations of true love, to hearing Thors' belief that a true warrior is one that does not need a sword. It struck him deeply but he hadn't put the pieces together yet until the village slaughter. It was then that he realized a true warrior is a dead warrior and a dead warrior does not need a sword. It's the only way a warrior can show true love by no longer being able to hurt and indiscriminately giving nutrients back to the earth.
It's this misinterpretation of Thors' beliefs and the cruelty he sees that leads him to this. And it is interesting that in Norse beliefs thatyou only become a true warrior in death when the Valkyries carry you to Valhalla as well.
@@Kavewolf1989 only with Valhalla you don't just go it with any death it has to be a "glorious" death in battle or similar like that which, without spoiling too much of the later story, this manga definitely criticizes.
i would love to see more videos before season 2 comes out
Thanks for this video. I have been really skeptical about getting into Manga again. Started watching Anime with my nephew a few years back, but never really got into it. I have seen the Vinland Saga on several other BookTubers lists, but usually bypass the Manga episodes. That is until it popped up on your channel. Your enthusiasm for this series has piqued my interest. So...I picked up the first volume today. And so far, so good. Thank you for your hard work on the channel, it is a huge help in discovering new things to read for me and my family.
9:25 Merph: "I love characters that don't cleanly fit into a box"
[WoT Lord of Chaos Spoiler]:
*Rand al'Thor intensifies*
Love the video and can't wait to hear your opinions on the next arc. It's my favorite of the series and where I think it really comes into its own! As for Canute's change, I don't see it as an abrupt change in mindset but rather as a self-revelation, but the series doesn't do a great job connecting all the dots. To start, what the priest is talking about does actually have a biblical basis. He's not talking about love in the common sense of the term. What he's talking about is an old, classical term known as agapē, or true love, God's love. In the scriptures, it is the highest form of love, a love completely and utterly selfless, a love so strong and vast that an omnipotent manifested a part of himself on Earth as a son and then sacrificed him to save all of humanity. That is the love the monk is seeking. That is why he says what Ragnar felt wasn't really love, because it wasn't agapē. Canute hears this and realizes something. Just like he knew deep down with Sweyn, he now realizes his Father does not love him. If God actually loved his children, if God's love were truly agapē, he would not leave them to suffer on Earth and then condemn them to hell in death. As such, even God does not embody love, and so Canute rejects him and decides he will embody true love and try to build his own paradise on Earth with it.
Now, I don't agree with this line of reasoning, and there's plenty of holes you can poke in the logic, but that's where I see him and the series as coming from.
So as for the Ragnar's love being discrimination, think about it like a mother bear protecting her cubs, yes she's protecting them because she loves them, but is discriminating in that moment all those that are not her cubs. A bigger picture of what they view as true love, remember when the brother vikings were discussing with the monk about what love is, and they brought up how they have each other's backs, but wouldnt do the same for the monk or others, or how when he heard how Thors even in his scenario chose not to kill but disable and incapacitate, not taking lives yet still defending what they believed should be protected, not using a sword to kill which was viewed as a weapon to kill, that is what it means to have no enemies, a true warrior does not need a sword.
God damn it, seeing you so passionate about VS makes me realize the depth of depression waiting for me when this story ends. I'm both sad and excited about it :')
I've been watching your videos for a while and it's been such a joy to see you pick up books and manga that I love! Not only is it so great to see someone give the same points about why they love a certain book, but it's made me realise how much we have in common in what we appreciate in books which has honestly excited me because I've been feeling a bit lost in finding new things to read. You've got a great way of expressing what you love about certain books and I really love how innovative you are with the types of videos you make!
IMO, the anime was so well done, felt like a cinematic experience. On that reason alone..I'll probably wait for season 2 to come out before reading the rest
Disagree. The anime could take years and years to come out and the impact of the second arc its better coming off a fresh read. I say continue on.
@@termy_3926 The second season is starting in January 2023
@@Simar94 Yeah and with Vinland's increasing popularity I don't think the anime is gonna be taking any significant hiatuses
@@termy_3926 Nah
Honestly, I’d be surprised if you manage to read the next arc and resist the urge to make a video ASAP.
Without trying to spoil anything the next arc is widely considered to be the best in the manga. If you think that the prologue/war arc was introspective the next is even more introspective with some of the best character development I’ve read.
I actually didn’t care for the next arc too much, mainly just the first half of it I didn’t care soo much. I’m definitely not saying it was bad I just think other arcs are better.
The fact that the series is already in your top 10 and the last material you cover in this video is titled "The End of the Prologue" is such a testament to the quality of the story. I was skeptical about how the plot would hold up without such a dynamic character as Askeladd, but it certainly kept me enthralled. Excited to hear your thoughts on the coming arcs.
One of the reasons this manga/anime works so well, is that its creator uses the transformation of the Norse Culture from a Honor Society with Raiding Vikings and Blood Vengeances to the Rule of Law under Christian Kings, to comment of Japan’s own honor society and how it lead to a militarized Empire and the catastrophic WW2, and the post-war pacifism.
(Espen) Askeladd/«(Espen) The Ash Lad» is not a historical character but the hero of multiple Norwegian Folk Tales. Usually in a rivalry with his two older siblings (Per and Pål/Paul), he is «the runt trickster» who is kind to those he meets that have fallen on bad times (where his brothers are rude/lazy/hostile), but still outsmarts his much powerful opponents (his brothers, trolls and the King), often due to the things and people he has gathered along his journeys that other view as “worthless”, to win gold, the hand of the Princess and/or half the Kingdom. As Norway was often ruled by Denmark and Sweden historically, but has since grown to become a wealthy nation, it is not hard to see Askeladd as an embodiment of «scarpy but cleaver» Norway: Henrik Ibsen’s much more notorious hustler protagonist Peer Gynt (from his eponymous play, made famous alongside the Music Edvard Grieg made for it, such as “In the Hall of the Mountain King” & “Morning Mood”) has some notable similarities with Askeladd, especially the lesser savory (mayby even irredeemable?) parts that can be read into Askeladd/Norwegian Culture. Without spoiling the Manga/Anime to much, the Askeladd of “Vinland Saga” is more in tune with Peer Gynt…
There’s a lot of real life character in the manga like The prince canut or Leif for exemple
Daym
Don't know if this was ever mentioned by anyone making it, but the first season has always felt more to me like a prologue considering what follows up
Well.. in the anime, it literally calls the last episode END OF THE PROLOGUE so for a lot of anime-only fans, it just kinda goes without saying lol
@@ar.ninetysix that's also the title of the last chapter of this arc in the manga
I just finished the anime series on Netflix. My favorite character is Thorfinn's sister, as she seems to be intelligent enough to recognize her father's ideals, but also more pragmatic about the brutality of the Viking age. Seeing her working so hard on their homestead without knowing she could have been living as a Danish princess is a great twist and her working through her grief is one of my favorite scenes.I think she is one of the most important characters in the series because it was her birth that turned Thors from a Viking warrior to the model of pacifism, choosing to live rather than kill. My favorite minor character Is Bjorn, as his final duel with Askeladd showed that despite being the classic embodiment of a Viking raider, and knowing that Askeladd despised the Danes, he valued their friendship more than the ruthless nature of their partnership and he made Askeladd acknowledge their friendship. Thorkell the Tall gets my honorable mention for bringing levity and fun to the series.
I have learned that if Merphy Napier says something is good, I just have to read/watch it! This was a push to watch the series. Might come back to this vid after watching the first season. Thanks!
We see Askeladd's story arc from the beginning. He was always looking for the chosen king, someone worthy to lead with the strength, power and will to bring peace, do good. He was so obsessed with it that he didn't realize that the person he was looking for his whole life was himself. What he could've been. I think that's part of why he took on the mantle of Artorius.
And he saw Thorfinn making his same mistake, wasting his life going down a path that took him further from what he wanted, when what he wanted was in front of him his whole life. Chasing after what he thinks is revenge when the greatest vengeance would have been living up to the ideals his father believed in a world that would see them die out.
That's how I saw his death, the meaning in it all.
What's crazy is you just experienced the prologue and it goes that hard with awesome Viking action and pillaging also one of the best revenge tales with Thorfinn one of my favorite protags ever and his dad Thors got crazy BAFE plus Thorkell is best girl and Askechadd is a goat
Vinland Saga is amazing! I pray you give Berserk a chance. It is really dark and very heavy. But it's easily one of the best & most emotional stories of all time.
She did give it a chance, it just went way too dark for her taste and sensibilities. I personally love it to my very core, but I can easily see people not being able to stomach parts of it, and I myself struggle from time to time. Berserk goes DARK with capital letters kind of often.
Thanks for reading Vinland Saga, it's my third favorite series of all time.
I think Canute always had that person within him. He admitted that he wasn't really shy, but he had to be careful in the environment that he was in. Ragnar goes further into that explaining how Canute is accustomed to being closed off in order to survive.
We see after the village massacre that Canute is already tormented by the knowledge that his own father wants him dead. To be able to deduce that shows his cunning and thoughtfulness (also his anger) already.
Ragnar's death leaves him extremely vulnerable, and at that tipping point, the Priest's ideology inspires a revengeful anger within his heart. He accepts that the world he was born in is incapable of giving him what he seeks, and he blames God for it
Please make more videos about this! I love Vinland saga and this introspective into it is great
Also my favorite character is Thorfinn and my favorite side character is probably Bug Eyes
I think the peak of Vinland Saga is the second saga/arc and that is exactly were you will start now (take your time).
Vinland Saga might Peak in the last few chapters
Unfortunately the series goes massively downhill from here in my opinnion. No interesting side characters, character arcs are ruined and no interesting villians either.
Y’all really keep disrespecting Farmland Arc
@@Weeby_historian He's definitely underselling lol
“Character arcs ruined” is the last thing I thought I’d ever see from a Vinland Saga discussion. It’s fair if you just don’t like the side characters/Villians but THAT? Nah.
@@Weeby_historian Farmland is still fine but nowhere near as good as the first arc and after that its just down right sad to see what it has become.
Cappiest cap of the west
I'm a sucker for a good revenge plot. so much symbolism in the series but it's so subtle. the way his father dies standing up. him in the boat during the storm but his rage keeps him warm. the shattering of his ideal in wanting to be a warrior as a child the way the prince was seen as a potential figurehead for Askland and how he thought he could shape him like Thorfinn only to be killed by the monster he himself created. and through it all you get these little gems the woman who died that saved him but him only seeing the fire. a girl in the cold whose guilt outweighed her greed for a ring. the peaceful family and a wooden bowl and I haven't read the serious since last year. the legend of Asland and Ubel Blatt are other good revenge series.
Thank you for all of this! You inspired me to get back to reading and now I can’t wait to start reading Mangas 📚💕
Very excited to see your feelings on the second arc no matter when you choose to. This arc is such a polarizing change but it is beautiful and going back through it in season 2 is gonna wreck me.
Please continue with the videos, the next arc is so great!
Ohmy. Didn't expect this but I sure am excited that you got into Vinland Saga!
Great video! I’ve been a big fan of Vinland Saga for a few years now and it’s great to see more people talking about it. I would love to see you talk about the next arc as it’s easily one of the best in the series