Robert and Ned are so Perfect that almost everyone that watched the series would want a show with just them on the road or one where they both survived the first season.
Books, with Need an Robert chapters are great especially after Neds accident an Robert an Cersie talking to Ned are great Way Better than the show luv Robert back handing Cersie is great 😅
And series about pre Robert’s rebellion would be nice love to see two buddies in their prime unlike their bitter end in S1 or focus on Tywin before Robert’s rebellion would be interesting.
Even more striking when you consider D&D were going off-script with this scene. Between this, war stories, and Arya/Tywin, is it any wonder we found out the hard way they weren't able to wind the series up
@jeanpaulsinatra they gave up, they arent bad writers when they care about the material but years later they obviously got burnt out. And delivered the worst season in history on tv possibly.
Basically all the scenes of characters telling stories about the past are so compelling. Partially because GRRMs worldbuilding for the set up of a game of thrones is incredible, partially because they are acted really well, but I think mostly because the script does a great job of turning essentially exposition into character studies through their tales.
I agree. The last series gets a lot of hate - some of it justifiably so - but one thing it lacked that didn't help it was the fact the story had to move on and couldn't keep referencing these old tales which are told so well. They're these amazing little glimpses into things in the early seasons, from Robert's stories mentioned above, to the White Walkers, all of it. It created a weight of expectation that sadly wasn't met.
@@nicktwyford That's a really good point. The characters were all too young to remember Westeros' noble past before everything went to shit. Only Tyrion and Edmure Tully are likely qualified to be choosing a new King based on their knowledge of Westeros' past.
It's hinted at multiple times through the show but this scene really hammers it home: Varys, Tywin, Pycelle, they're all wrong. King Robert was neither a complete moron, nor was he indifferent to the realm he governed. He did drown his sorrow over Lyanna stark in wine and whores, but that didn't make him dull or unobservant in any way. I think he actually realised pretty early in his reign that the realm was critically unstable and him defeating Aerys didn't solve the underlying issue of the increasing tensions between the noble houses of Westeros. My theory is that he barely governed on purpose, thinking that letting every lord do their own thing largely unchecked is the best way to avoid stepping on anybodys toes and causing yet another rebellion or civil war. When he talks to Cersei about the unity of a potential Dothraki invasion he actually reveals that he's well aware that his own crown is hanging by a thread and he has next to no real support outside the capital. So his strategy was to take the target off his back by ceding responsibility, delegating nearly all power to the small council and the local lords.
I very much like this idea for at least how the show conveys Robert. The more times I've read ASOIAF, the more I question whether he was truly just a great soldier... but I love how the show painted such a different character that definitely could meet your portrayal. And truly an example of the tragedy of how D&D knew how to write once upon a time.
@@a.p.2019they’re mid at adapting. But remember grrm was very active in the writing of the 1st 2nd seasons less so later on. (Writers room thing i mean0
Robert was such an interesting, INFURIATING and trágic character. He knows he's utterly unfit for kingship and hates it. But stays becuse his "son" would be MUCH worse. And also the scene when he admits to never loving his brothers hits hard
>And also the scene when he admits to never loving his brothers hits hard kinda hits hard to us in the modern world, but in westeros, if you are raised by some other lord that's not your dad, in a castle hundreds/thousands of miles from home & family, how can you expect anything else? He was raised by Jon Arryn, with Ned Stark as fellow ward. Makes total sense that he loves them more than his brothers.
Robert isn't utterly unfit to be king. He grew up to be the Lord of one of the great houses of westeros, so he is trained for ruling, and as it is repeated a lot in the books, his reign ends up to be one of the most peaceful and prosperous to be remembered, because he was, and I quote, "the real steel". He is both feared and loved, even by Twyin, making any attempt at true rebellion after the Greyjoys pointless. But he is in an abyss of self loathing and hedonism, particularly in the last years of his reign, clearly depressed; he hates to be king not for the crown itself, but because he thought it would have given him some relief from what he thinks his failures are, and he discovers that not even that is enough to run away from himself.
@@giuseppeanoardi3973Robert is unfit to be king,thats the whole point of the character,he was a great warrior and super charismatic wich united people but being a war hero doesnt mean you will be a great king. Robert reign while it looked great on the surface,because Jon Arryn was hand,there were lots of tourneys and feasts,and it was during a long summer,it was plagued by corruption,crippling amounts of debt for the crown,and in the end it also resulted in a civil war and many people in the books think that Aerys was a better king than Robert for most of its reign before he went totally mad. Robert was the way he is shown before even becoming King,it just got worse.
he did say he wanted to leave the kingdoms and his rule behind and become a sellsword king in essos, something like "the songs they'd write about the sellsword king"
Scenes like this prove that D&D can write. It demonstrates they understand the characters and can write diagolgue/scenes that are on par with GRRM. That's why it is absolutely maddening how the show went off the rails. I hope some day we get a tell-all book or documentary that tells us exactly how it broke down.
they occasionally had a good scene, but they had a great deal more f-ups with their original additions/alterations than wins. it just became totally obvious once they passed the books
D&D were showrunners. They get the credit, but not necessarily involved in the scenes themselves. The Director and Producers craft the scenes. If you watch the credits youll see in those episdodes who craft the scenes. Compare those credits to later episodes. Youll see D&D being producers and writers then, but NOT in earlier seasons.
It's because they were really good at translating the books to the show. When they passed the books, they didn't have a source material to work from and just kinda waddled forward.
@@tomwhitworth1560 they willingly refused to adapt stuff from the last two books, the "run out of books" for anything pre season 6 is horseshit/false. I'm not pissed toward you, but toward the excuse.
@@fandemusique4693They could've easily gotten 3-4 seasons out of Feast and Dance, and instead they basically crammed it all into 1 season and skipped most stuff.
Really glad to see someone cover this scene. It was the first time GoT really wowed me. I watched the show before reading the books so I didn't even know the full story behind Lyanna and Robert but Mark Addy's acting here really sold it so well.
Wow, such an exceptional video! I think this scene is proof that you don’t need dragons or epic battles for Game of Thrones to be amazing. The real battles are fought with words. Just two people at a table, tearing each other apart with simple truths. And that line-"I can't even remember her face"? It’s like a knife to the gut. But I want to say, I never noticed how it’s such a contradiction: he remembers every little detail of battles but can’t remember Lyanna’s face. That hits so hard. It makes him so tragic-stuck chasing a fantasy of what could’ve been-while Cersei’s just stuck in the reality of what never was. It’s heartbreaking for both of them in completely different ways. This made me want to go back and rewatch the whole show... well, at least the good seasons 😉
He was stuck chasing a fantasy that would never work out, causing the downfall of a house mostly because he had his heart broken. I don’t think Ned ever wanted all the Targs dead. Robert went crazy for love.
@@shannonmatthews5471honestly, when I was watching a couple of videos on Jaime lannisters arc it just completely deflated me cause he just dies to rubble with Cersei, like a complete 180 on his character
It's not fantasy. It's the idea of chasing a woman, treating her like an object with no attempt to understand her or even realise that she likes another dude.
The bits with Robert's memory make me think he is either consciously or unconsciously trying to forget her. Similar to the "How drunk is drunk enough" scene in The Legend of Bagger Vance. Robert has a great memory for hundreds of things he doesn't want to remember. Tragically or maybe it's his own mind protecting him, he can't clearly remember her.
I took it as a sign that Robert was unreasonably infatuated with someone he didn't really know. Could make sense given we already know Lyanna didn't even want him.
Remembering things you don’t want to and not remembering things you do is a common curse of warriors. For some reason our brains hold onto the horror and let go of more pleasant things
His mind is his own worst enemy. Burying it in wine, flesh and games is all Robert can do to suppress it long enough to enjoy what is in front of him. Then it comes crawling back like the winter winds and reminds him that he is too keen, too unhappy and too unfulfilled for his own good.
Robert was played flawlessly. This scene shows that he wasnt the drunken oaf we were led to believe he was. This scene really sold me the series. Everyone can relate to it. I know ive lived it to a degree.
I think, with Robert, the idea of marrying lyanna was more the idea of being Ned's brother by marriage. She was perfect, because she was Ned's sister, and the means by which their families could be united. In that sense, she was 'perfect'. But again, this just shows how deep in delusion Robert allowed himself to be in.
I think you’re very close to the truth, Lyanna represents a time in Robert’s life, his youth, his peak, his boldness, and of course being brothers with Ned.
@@anon2427 Yes, it plays into the idea that his love for Lyanna wasn't actually about her, but about how he dreamed it could have been and of better days. It was a perfect love because it was never tested by an actual marriage. I think Robert's love for Ned, and even for John Aryyn, were his strongest positive feelings.
You dont get this delusional over a political match. Lyanna was the girl in his head. Sharp. Boyish. Capable. Despite never really getting to know her, the idea of her slipped into Robert's fantasy of THE girl, that every man has whether they're conscious of it or not.
This scene is just *UPSETTINGLY* well-written. It shows that they had the full capability to truly understand and showcase the characters and story, while being flexible with book canon or even diverging entirely, and they just flat chose to be bad on purpose later.
the only reason this scene exists is that they missed a few minutes of footage for that epiosode and because most of the cast was already in holidays they had to come up with something to fill those minutes with the cast they had at hand... nonetheless its well written.
@@mehmetfatihyilmaz1641 Damn, I bet you could hear me sighing deeply all the way from here. Yeah, that sounds about right for what I know of D&D. Thanks for the info.
@@thefairybug40 it's in the book of James Hibbert called "fire cannot kill a dragon". I would really recommend it, since it gives a lot of background information about the show.
The problem is - GRRM never finished the story. If he had, I doubt D&D would have ended it as they had. More to the point, GRRM has crafted a story that he himself CANNOT finish. What the story needs is a classic high fantasy finish, but GRRM can't bring himself to do it. It's why it's not done yet, and will never be done since GRRM only wants to subvert high fantasy, not resort to it. He crafted a story where John should be the king and the answer to the prophecy, but in turn, doesn't want it to be John. There's no way D&D could ever ended the show correctly.
@@jakedunnegan D&D were entirely at fault for their ending, they completley ignored *Corn* everything from AFFC and ADWD, and in the books it is very *Snow* clear that John and Dany are the prophesised heros. D&D were the ones who decided the long *King* night should be one night of battle, *Snow* and that Arya kills the Night King. John can still be the prophesised hero and not become *Corn* king. In my opinion the true hero of ASOIAF shouldn't save the *King* world and then mount the seat of *Snow* power of a fuedal system that has relentlessly held the world in a cycle of violence. I do agree though that George has created a story he can't finish but I still have hope for TWOW. (Ignore Mormonts raven it keeps talking about King Snow and corn or something, maybe John will become corn king!?) *Corn*
Mark Addy performance is above and beyond any award. My favorite scene of all time. Also music in that scene is brilliant. Thank you for covering this.
He was so compelling. Whatever we say about the last seasons, the casting on the show was absolutely brilliant, even smaller characters were often so charismatic - Syrio Forrell was barely even there and he stole his scenes, the Faceless Man too... Mark Addy was one of the highlights among a stellar cast.
@@AW-uv3cb I agree, I think Addy as Robert steals every scene in first season. Delivery of "Someone took her away from me, and seven kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind.", and "She should be on a hill, somewhere with the sun and the clouds above her." is really special. I think one day somebody will make a video essay and analise.
You have no idea how happy I am to see this. I've always felt, since the first time I saw this scene, that it was not only one of my all time favorite scenes in the show, but that it also perfectly encapsulates exactly what it was about seasons 1-4 that made this show such a masterpiece (or the first half of it at least). It's so rare to see Hollywood blockbusters making an attempt to actually fully humanize their characters and show that they're more than just one-dimensional caricatures with one or two defining attributes that make up the entirety of their personality, but instead actually have complex, contradictory, and unexpectedly sympathetic sides to them... you know, like real humans do. Taking a drunk, incompetent king and showing you that underneath his escapism he's actually a deeply intelligent, thoughtful, and emotionally damaged man, or taking his sociopath, hateful wife and showing you that there used to be a hopeful, joyous side to her that got buried under the weight of decades of pain and trauma. I think people tend to be uncomfortable having to confront the sympathetic side of characters they're meant to hate and root against, which is a shame, because it's so crucially important for people to be able to take that uncomfortable view of humanity and recognize that even their enemies deserve some measure of compassion and understanding. Anyway, this was the scene that elevated GoT from a wonderfully done, surprisingly high quality fantasy show to a masterpiece, at least for me. Great video, and thanks for sharing.
I’d never considered that Cersei was only asking about Lyanna because she knew she’d kill Robert soon so she wanted some type of closure. So interesting and it makes sense!
More significant still is that she asks Robert only what Lyanna LOOKED like. Not what she WAS like, not what drew Robert to her. Beauty is Cercei's only metric for what a woman has to offer. As a child, she's deeply shaken by Maggie the Frog's prophesy: "Another will come along, younger and more beautiful than you." If Cercei hadn't been obsessed with beauty in general and her own in particular, she might have become -- like Olenna Tyrell -- a force to be reckoned with.
Really, it is a stretch to say that Cersei "killed" Robert or even had-him-killed. Pushing alcohol on him while he was hunting was no surefire way to bring about his death (especially for a man with a well-established tolerance for it), and Cersei hit the jackpot when he was gored by a boar. None of this, of course, is to say that Cersei was morally above killing Robert or did not want him dead, but what she was doing there was at most a faint shadow of an assassination attempt.
I always thought that Cersei's decision on killing Robert was depending on his answer that day. Prior to that conversation, she acted very caring and subordinate to him, when he yelled "shut up, woman!" and things like that. She still had some kind of love for him, or hope to get things sorted out. But everything got clear when she asked "was there any possibility of you ever loving me?" and Robert answered with a heavy "no". Then she felt the pain, pretended to not be hurt, and in that moment she decided everything was done.... killed her feelings for Robert, and decided to kill him too. That, and also that there was the increasing possibility of him finding out about Jeoffrey being the son of Jaime.
@@wendtmusic4916 I've not read the books (I probably won't until the end is written...) but in the series it was kind of implied that the other Lannister skinny 17 year old boy who is Robert's cupbeared put some kind of substance on the wine.... appearantly it was not just him giving too much wine to the king, that was just a facade for the whole thing. And I think Cersei also slept with him when Jaime was away in a later season
The layers in this scene are INSANE! D&D caught so much hate (deserved for s8 lets be real) but they absolutely killed it with this original scene. I hate it when people say early GOT was only good because it followed the books. This scene proves otherwise. Like if you're reading this in 2025 and somehow haven't watched GOT (how??), this kind of writing is why you need to start from S1. No notes, absolutely perfect video essay.
this scene follows pretty well with the books, even if it wasn't *in* the books they had a lot of original scenes that sucked -- especially compared to *amazing* scenes from the books that they omitted.
It’s because they respect the source material deeply when they add their own scenes, whilst some cinema writers don’t, like Star Wars for example. D&D failed in the last season because they rushed it, wanting to finish it earlier to start different projects (which ironically didn’t get to happen anyway)
They may be decent writers but they can never be forgiven for not carrying the show into the end zone. It really doesn’t matter the reason because they could have handed the show off to knew showrunners if they wanted to leave. They are not to be trusted.
They are good when they have materials to work off of--just like ChatGPT summarizing with no originality. But once the material was gone they were lost in the wilderness.
Absolutely! Tywin and Arya's conversations, Olenna's confession to Jaime about Joffrey, the hound finding the brotherhood executing their own men, Jon and Daenerys' first meeting... none of these scenes happen in the books, yet they are the scenes I love to revisit most. D&D ABSOLUTELY can write. They just decided not to try that hard toward the end for some reason.
The first seasons were co-written by martin alongside with d&d, he left in season 3 or 4 I seem to recall. I can totally see him being wise, able and aware enough to put all of these things together writing this dialogue
They weren't co-written, just authorised by him. He looked over the scripts and had formal input on everything. But all his power was ceremonial. HBO often ignored him or just didn't ask. D&D was the only way a lot of GRRMs' ideas were implemented because they had a great working relationship with him. If he had co-written it, they wouldn't have cut so many characters.
@ Not exactly true. GRRM played a more active role in the scripts for the first 4 seasons, and he actually wrote one episode per season for the first 4 seasons. True that D and D had the ultimate say on what made it into the script and the show. HBO was paying the bill, after all. After the 4th season, GRRM resolved to be less involved, and he no longer was as active, and no longer wrote an episode each season. His reasons are his own, but most certainly this was because of how far the show had strayed from his books. Reply
100% agreed with you. Early show is filled with original scenes that add A LOT. I would argue (and GRRM agrees) Rob's wife is better in the show than books.
This is one of my favorite scenes in the show. Loved it for the honest view of the characters for what genuinely seemed like a genuine heartfelt conversation between two people so used to putting on a facade.
So GoT got worse the moment the actual story started? The king's death starts the war that is the main conflict of ASOIAF and Ned's death is essential to most character motivations throughout the first seasons / books. That's like saying "Twin Peaks wasn't as good after Laura Palmer died"
Just blew my mind!! What can I say, there are a lot of great observations here but these are my favorites: 5:25 and 7:34. This video made me appreciate the scene and D&D even more... I don't know how they messed up with last couple of seasons. They are clearly great writers...
Hey, love this video you should do a video on Cersei talking with Oberyn Because it’s another one of those scenes where she drops the façade for some seconds, and then catches herself. There’s also something else that she does when she catches herself in a situation where her emotions might show and that is, she purposefully breaks eye contact first. She does it in this scene with Robert who, as you said is not as stupid as everyone believes him to be and has a knack for seeing people when he is looking for something. Oberyn and her conversation was pretty much built to break her façade with them talking about their children.
Discovered you by pure chance. But this was a great perception. Your ability to perceive such details and connect them to the context is amazing. This was a heartwarming video. And a true reminder to many aspects of human nature we can probably never fully overcome, such as clinging to our own expectations and projections while the reality itself is different.
Robert never loved Lyanna Stark, he loved the idea idea of her, he wanted her, lusted for her, but he didn't love her and when Rhaegar took her away because she loved him and he loved her, though no one knew, that angered Robert because she wouldn't be his now. Robert is a well written tragic character, he's not a good person, he's just a person, flaws and all.
Gonna have to disagree with one thing. Robert might not have been a fool, but he sure did do a lot of foolish things. He did not take part in raising his heir, he did not take part in ruling his Kingdom and let it fall into debt and never taught his Squire what a breastplate stretcher was.
Robert lacked the strength of character to be king. Even if he could see bad things happening around him it meant nothing if he couldn't apply himself to get it solved.
I noticed after reading the books that the show also changed the dynamic between Tyrion and Twyin somewhat. For example, Tywin didn’t want Tyrion fighting in the Vanguard but he wouldn’t admit it was out of any love for him. Compared to the show where he tells him he has to fight in the Vanguard. I got the feeling from the book that Tywin does love Tyrion and hates himself for it but it’s not as obvious in the show.
That was my favorite scene in season 1. It was beautiful. Like, a perfect perspective showing done like a bad exposition dump. Yet, it is masterful because while it does give you the knowledge you need, it shows you that through the two people at the top, and how shocked they are about how it has made them feel versus their expectations.
Glad someone covered this scene. This and Robert's war talk are my favourite scenes involving Robert and giving us insight into his mind that we don't get in the first book. Sometimes I wish characters like Robert and Tywin were POV characters in the books so we could explore their thoughts and feelings but alas they aren't.
damn that was a good watch! there are ofcourse a million videos on analyzing GoT scenes but you’ve crafted it so well and carried the main concept throughout the video with no nonsense
Lovely video. I’ve been rewatching Game of Thrones recently and my goal is to make note of things I didn’t find during my first watch. This video really puts it into perspective of how I’d like to be better at analyzing. Thank you, Valaritas.
Cersei was not only sidelined for a dead woman, she was sidelined for that woman when said woman was alive too. Cersei thought she was going to marry Rhaegar and I do believe she witnessed the blue roses 'incident'. Imagine how she feels that she cannot kill Lyanna ...
Can we just take a moment and appreciate what a great actor Mark Addy is?! He literally carries every scene he's in and left such a big mark while not even being in the whole season. Absolutely stunning actor, perfectly cast
BobbyB's and Ned's relationship is THE best part of the show. The amount of brotherly love, trust, and respect is just inspiring. I always find it so wonderful how Ned lowers his ever-so-serious posture only when with BB.
00:59, i think part of the reason they get so much hate is that this scene, the Catelyn and Talisa scene in the riverlands, and a few more shows us they are more than capable of making their own original content that fit the world a story so well, its just that they didn't care by the end and wanted to get it over with but also didn't want anyone else's name on their baby.
It is sad to say, but I doubt that other people as well as actors cared much more. The show had become a big part of their lives, too big. Kit Harington had to deal with serious issues as a result of losing his privacy and everyone taking part in the show had carried similar pressure and weight on their shoulders for too long. I assume they truly wanted the show to be over at the end despite being unsatisfied with the ending. So I don't blame anyone really for how the show ended, they are all just people after all.
That was one of the best scenes of the entire show. King Robert showed us why he deserved to be consider a great leader. And there's the similarities between King Robert and King Robb, both were murdered because of love but before their deaths we saw their great Martial prowess/tactical minds. Cersei was always evil, so her actions were inevitable. It was rumoured she murdered her friend as a kid after speaking to Maggy the Frog and being told her future. It always amused me how the Lyanna Stark we saw looks like Daenerys Targaryen. King Robert loved Lyanna and wanted to kill Dany, Jon Snow/Aegon Targaryen was Lyanna's son and nephew/lover of Dany....
I don't think it's fair to say Cersei was just evil. She never intended for Ned to be executed and she loved her family...except Tyrion. The only times she acted reprehensibly was because someone had harmed her family or to prevent harm from coming to her family. If you think Cersei was evil because she did what she had to do to keep her family in power, then did you view Margery in the same light? I loved Margery's character and she probably would have done more for the "small folk" then Cersei but she groomed Cersei's last surviving child and taunted Cersei with it which in hindsight is really gross/disturbing.
@ “Maggy also warns that Melara will die very soon, and true enough, she drowns in a well shortly after.” Cersei is likely to have murdered Melara Hetherspoon when they were young so she was always evil.
@@taureansynner6993 but killing someone isn’t the sole measure of evil. Cersei wasn’t a good character and many times she wasn’t a likeable character but her actions were to protect herself and her loved ones. If killing someone indicates evil, then almost all of the characters on the show were evil. The most selfless character on the show, Jon, killed a fan favorite but you wouldn’t call him evil.
Good analysis connecting the "remember every face" of people he killed and tying it to that scene. I never realized Cersei was talking bc she knew she would kill him
3:10 this shot is amazing, I love actors like Mark Addy who can convey so much with so little. The eyes on their own say so much here. Mark Rylance is another who he reminds me of who does similar, such subtle presence. He recently played Thomas Cromwell in Wolf Hall (BBC series, Tudor historical drama).
Never ignore or dismiss the beauty of the physical acting involved in the early seasons of this show. Cersei's gulps and facial ticks in this scene alone portray a lot of what she's feeling in the moment. Edit: Robert's "love" for Lyanna is the sane as Snape's for Lily. It's obsession. And, perhaps, the worship of someone who both men believe can make them better people without them actually trying to be better.
8 days ago? Would you believe me if I said I had just finished GoT just recently haha and I am glad I have. Amazing video, couldn't take my eyes off the screen and you educated me well
In the books, there is a scene where Robert literally talks about abandoning the crown, the kingdom, Westeros in general, to become a fighter in a sell sword company in Essos, because he loves being a soldier. He hated being a king.
I keep going ‘alright i’ve watched all the good GoT/ASoIaF content that could ever be made. I should probably move on.’ Then someone makes a fantastic video like this and I want to rewatch the first four seasons again lmao
Things would be dark if Robert had gotten what he wanted. Imagine: he gets to marry Lyanna, Lyanna's still in love with Rhaegar, their relationship totally fails to live up to his dreams, Robert abuses Lyanna the way he abuses Cersei, Ned feels he has to step in to protect his sister against his king
I feel it was the quiet conversations between two individuals that was the backbone of GoT. When two great characters came together it was so juicy. And then there was Hodor 💔
One more observation: @4:49 when Robert begins his monologue, it's even more powerful because the actor did not blink. Too often the directors miss the opportunity to make the scene more impactful by instructing the actor to not BLINK when delivering a powerful monologue that is captured by a tight close-up. We got the best of it here Boyz and girls!
Mark Addy was so underrated as Robert. Even though he was short-lived on the show, his presence loomed over that first season and his charisma dominated every scene he was in. You believe that this guy, even though he was washed up now, was once been a great leader of men and fierce warrior.
First of all, great job, lots of moments gave me the chills. Game of thrones dialogues are sometimes so good, that it just makes you drunk by just listening and makes you unable to perceive every details. This video ( for me ) correct that phenomenon. I loved that scene, now, I loved it even more, admire it even. And makes me frustrated by knowing it was made by the same two guys rushed the final two seasons for their own agenda/career, making got a marvel kind of cinematics
Very astute analysis. I would like to add something not mentioned. Yes, as spoken, Robert was in love with the beauty of Lyanna Stark and would still womanize and sleep around. But you must also acknowledge the other love of his life… Ned Stark. This is a strong love. As Robert has admitted, “I never loved my brothers. You [Ned] are the brother I chose.” They grew up together, fought battles together, are alike in many ways. Although Ned is more moderate and temperate, appealing as much to Robert’s better wisdom and merits as possible. My take is that Lyanna just happened to be the gorgeous sister of his best friend. Had everything worked out the way he wanted, he and Lyanna would be happily married (as happy as they could be, considering other desires and motives). And the bond between Robert and Ned would be that much stronger as they would’ve been essentially family. This was all part of Robert’s ideal of what could have been. You shouldn’t discount Ned as part of the Robert and Lyanna equation and his misery, despite being king, married to a beautiful woman (that he hates), and still getting to bed whoever he wants.
i am rewatching the show and that scene gets me every time. the intimacy and the humanity... and none of that matters in the end because they are still puppets dancing on the strings of their parents....
This was a really well done video. As a big fan of the books one of the things that bugs me the most is that you hardly ever hear anyone discuss Lyanna’s faults. Yes she was young but it was ridiculously Hypocritical to bitch about Robert not being able to stick to one bed when she herself would go off with a Married Man. Ned tells Robert that “you didn’t know her like I did.” What the hell? Ned spent most of Lyanna’s life in the Vale… with Robert… It always hits different when you realize that Ned didn’t really know Lyanna either. They are BOTH affected by their own desired perception of her. Robert and Lyanna wouldn’t have been able to be happy but not strictly because of Robert. Lyanna would have brought her own Baggage to that Marriage…
This was a good video about a great scene. The reason why Dave & Dan deserve 100% of the hate they get for season 8 & season 7 is because with scenes like this, Arya & Tywin's scenes, Tywin & Olenna's scene discussing Loras' marriage to Cersei, Kinvara meeting Tyrion, & the battle between the Hound & Brienne they demonstrated they could write original material that was truly world class & then fact they they gave us the utter crap of seasons 7 & 8 is so revealing of how the problem with wasn't that they didn't have Martin's books to work from anymore, its rather that they simply gave up.
I’ve always felt the most heartbreaking thing about that line of 7 kingdoms not being enough was the fact he was saying it to his “wife”… imagine how neglected that must make a person feel when your significant other doesn’t realize the person he is saying this to is supposed to be the one who fills that void.
I remember when game of thrones was a new little show on HBO. I had never heard of A Song of Ice and Fire. I would try to convince my friends that the quite scenes. The scenes with two people walking down a corridor are so much more powerful than any ice zombies or dragons. Good times.
The most interesting thing about reading the first book in this saga was how the more you read, the more you realize the panorama was born fucked up decades before the first page, and this is the inevitable crumbling, and this scene and the dialogue encapsulate it so well: the revolution finished and every political marriage, and most particularly Baratheon's, arranged to bandage the kingdoms together was a ticking bomb from the start
Which scene should I cover next?
something with Tywin Lannister for sure.
TYWIN AND ARYA
joffrey and tywin!
Chaos is ladder!
Jaime bathtub
All of Robert's scenes were perfectly crafted
Robert and Ned are so Perfect that almost everyone that watched the series would want a show with just them on the road or one where they both survived the first season.
That's what really kept me interested. The dialog was great.
Books, with Need an Robert chapters are great especially after Neds accident an Robert an Cersie talking to Ned are great Way Better than the show luv Robert back handing Cersie is great 😅
Gods the writing was strong back then...
And series about pre Robert’s rebellion would be nice love to see two buddies in their prime unlike their bitter end in S1 or focus on Tywin before Robert’s rebellion would be interesting.
"GODS the writing was strong then..." - Bobby B, King Stag
Those were the days
read that with the voice of chuckles the mad clown, sorry he used the same phrase. :D
Even more striking when you consider D&D were going off-script with this scene. Between this, war stories, and Arya/Tywin, is it any wonder we found out the hard way they weren't able to wind the series up
@jeanpaulsinatra they gave up, they arent bad writers when they care about the material but years later they obviously got burnt out. And delivered the worst season in history on tv possibly.
Dave from the full monty! ❤
Basically all the scenes of characters telling stories about the past are so compelling. Partially because GRRMs worldbuilding for the set up of a game of thrones is incredible, partially because they are acted really well, but I think mostly because the script does a great job of turning essentially exposition into character studies through their tales.
The entire story has a multilayered current world vs the past juxtaposition.
All the best characters are dead before the first book starts.
I agree. The last series gets a lot of hate - some of it justifiably so - but one thing it lacked that didn't help it was the fact the story had to move on and couldn't keep referencing these old tales which are told so well. They're these amazing little glimpses into things in the early seasons, from Robert's stories mentioned above, to the White Walkers, all of it. It created a weight of expectation that sadly wasn't met.
@@nicktwyford I never thought of that
@@kurtwagner350 I didn't either until I watched the video! 🙂
@@nicktwyford That's a really good point. The characters were all too young to remember Westeros' noble past before everything went to shit.
Only Tyrion and Edmure Tully are likely qualified to be choosing a new King based on their knowledge of Westeros' past.
It's hinted at multiple times through the show but this scene really hammers it home: Varys, Tywin, Pycelle, they're all wrong. King Robert was neither a complete moron, nor was he indifferent to the realm he governed. He did drown his sorrow over Lyanna stark in wine and whores, but that didn't make him dull or unobservant in any way.
I think he actually realised pretty early in his reign that the realm was critically unstable and him defeating Aerys didn't solve the underlying issue of the increasing tensions between the noble houses of Westeros. My theory is that he barely governed on purpose, thinking that letting every lord do their own thing largely unchecked is the best way to avoid stepping on anybodys toes and causing yet another rebellion or civil war.
When he talks to Cersei about the unity of a potential Dothraki invasion he actually reveals that he's well aware that his own crown is hanging by a thread and he has next to no real support outside the capital. So his strategy was to take the target off his back by ceding responsibility, delegating nearly all power to the small council and the local lords.
that's an idea.
its really sad that this was the only scene that actually shows what you just said...
I very much like this idea for at least how the show conveys Robert. The more times I've read ASOIAF, the more I question whether he was truly just a great soldier... but I love how the show painted such a different character that definitely could meet your portrayal.
And truly an example of the tragedy of how D&D knew how to write once upon a time.
I can see that
@@a.p.2019they’re mid at adapting. But remember grrm was very active in the writing of the 1st 2nd seasons less so later on.
(Writers room thing i mean0
Robert was such an interesting, INFURIATING and trágic character. He knows he's utterly unfit for kingship and hates it. But stays becuse his "son" would be MUCH worse. And also the scene when he admits to never loving his brothers hits hard
>And also the scene when he admits to never loving his brothers hits hard
kinda hits hard to us in the modern world, but in westeros, if you are raised by some other lord that's not your dad, in a castle hundreds/thousands of miles from home & family, how can you expect anything else?
He was raised by Jon Arryn, with Ned Stark as fellow ward. Makes total sense that he loves them more than his brothers.
Robert isn't utterly unfit to be king. He grew up to be the Lord of one of the great houses of westeros, so he is trained for ruling, and as it is repeated a lot in the books, his reign ends up to be one of the most peaceful and prosperous to be remembered, because he was, and I quote, "the real steel". He is both feared and loved, even by Twyin, making any attempt at true rebellion after the Greyjoys pointless. But he is in an abyss of self loathing and hedonism, particularly in the last years of his reign, clearly depressed; he hates to be king not for the crown itself, but because he thought it would have given him some relief from what he thinks his failures are, and he discovers that not even that is enough to run away from himself.
@@danielsantiagourtado3430 king arthur is more like the real core of game of thrones
@@giuseppeanoardi3973Robert is unfit to be king,thats the whole point of the character,he was a great warrior and super charismatic wich united people but being a war hero doesnt mean you will be a great king.
Robert reign while it looked great on the surface,because Jon Arryn was hand,there were lots of tourneys and feasts,and it was during a long summer,it was plagued by corruption,crippling amounts of debt for the crown,and in the end it also resulted in a civil war and many people in the books think that Aerys was a better king than Robert for most of its reign before he went totally mad.
Robert was the way he is shown before even becoming King,it just got worse.
he did say he wanted to leave the kingdoms and his rule behind and become a sellsword king in essos, something like "the songs they'd write about the sellsword king"
Scenes like this prove that D&D can write. It demonstrates they understand the characters and can write diagolgue/scenes that are on par with GRRM. That's why it is absolutely maddening how the show went off the rails. I hope some day we get a tell-all book or documentary that tells us exactly how it broke down.
they occasionally had a good scene, but they had a great deal more f-ups with their original additions/alterations than wins.
it just became totally obvious once they passed the books
D&D were showrunners. They get the credit, but not necessarily involved in the scenes themselves. The Director and Producers craft the scenes. If you watch the credits youll see in those episdodes who craft the scenes. Compare those credits to later episodes. Youll see D&D being producers and writers then, but NOT in earlier seasons.
It's because they were really good at translating the books to the show.
When they passed the books, they didn't have a source material to work from and just kinda waddled forward.
@@tomwhitworth1560 they willingly refused to adapt stuff from the last two books, the "run out of books" for anything pre season 6 is horseshit/false.
I'm not pissed toward you, but toward the excuse.
@@fandemusique4693They could've easily gotten 3-4 seasons out of Feast and Dance, and instead they basically crammed it all into 1 season and skipped most stuff.
Great analysis
I believe Peter Dinklage says it best, "We're heavy on the characters, light on the dragons"
Ironic how the more dragons played a part in the story, the worse the writing became
@daustin8888 Very true lol 😂
@daustin8888 Correlation doesn't equal causation. And that's not irony.
@ Yeah, it isn't irony, nor does it prove any correlation between the two, but come on, you got what he was trying to say
@YusufAli-zy8zesomeone should try harder
Really glad to see someone cover this scene. It was the first time GoT really wowed me. I watched the show before reading the books so I didn't even know the full story behind Lyanna and Robert but Mark Addy's acting here really sold it so well.
Wow, such an exceptional video! I think this scene is proof that you don’t need dragons or epic battles for Game of Thrones to be amazing. The real battles are fought with words. Just two people at a table, tearing each other apart with simple truths. And that line-"I can't even remember her face"? It’s like a knife to the gut. But I want to say, I never noticed how it’s such a contradiction: he remembers every little detail of battles but can’t remember Lyanna’s face. That hits so hard. It makes him so tragic-stuck chasing a fantasy of what could’ve been-while Cersei’s just stuck in the reality of what never was. It’s heartbreaking for both of them in completely different ways. This made me want to go back and rewatch the whole show... well, at least the good seasons 😉
I will never rewatch this show, lol. Season 7 and 8 were so terrible that they are basically unwatchable.
He was stuck chasing a fantasy that would never work out, causing the downfall of a house mostly because he had his heart broken. I don’t think Ned ever wanted all the Targs dead. Robert went crazy for love.
@@shannonmatthews5471honestly, when I was watching a couple of videos on Jaime lannisters arc it just completely deflated me cause he just dies to rubble with Cersei, like a complete 180 on his character
It's not fantasy. It's the idea of chasing a woman, treating her like an object with no attempt to understand her or even realise that she likes another dude.
Currently rewatching it. Just finished season 3
The bits with Robert's memory make me think he is either consciously or unconsciously trying to forget her. Similar to the "How drunk is drunk enough" scene in The Legend of Bagger Vance. Robert has a great memory for hundreds of things he doesn't want to remember. Tragically or maybe it's his own mind protecting him, he can't clearly remember her.
That scene from Bagger Vance still sticks with me all these years later
I took it as a sign that Robert was unreasonably infatuated with someone he didn't really know. Could make sense given we already know Lyanna didn't even want him.
Remembering things you don’t want to and not remembering things you do is a common curse of warriors.
For some reason our brains hold onto the horror and let go of more pleasant things
His mind is his own worst enemy. Burying it in wine, flesh and games is all Robert can do to suppress it long enough to enjoy what is in front of him. Then it comes crawling back like the winter winds and reminds him that he is too keen, too unhappy and too unfulfilled for his own good.
Robert was played flawlessly. This scene shows that he wasnt the drunken oaf we were led to believe he was. This scene really sold me the series. Everyone can relate to it. I know ive lived it to a degree.
He was a drunken oaf. But he was more than that.
@AlanDantes76 bingo
I think, with Robert, the idea of marrying lyanna was more the idea of being Ned's brother by marriage.
She was perfect, because she was Ned's sister, and the means by which their families could be united. In that sense, she was 'perfect'.
But again, this just shows how deep in delusion Robert allowed himself to be in.
I think you’re very close to the truth, Lyanna represents a time in Robert’s life, his youth, his peak, his boldness, and of course being brothers with Ned.
@@anon2427 Yes, it plays into the idea that his love for Lyanna wasn't actually about her, but about how he dreamed it could have been and of better days. It was a perfect love because it was never tested by an actual marriage. I think Robert's love for Ned, and even for John Aryyn, were his strongest positive feelings.
You dont get this delusional over a political match. Lyanna was the girl in his head. Sharp. Boyish. Capable. Despite never really getting to know her, the idea of her slipped into Robert's fantasy of THE girl, that every man has whether they're conscious of it or not.
Very true. It’s pretty much implied that a Lannister/Stark marriage would usher in an era of peace.
@@sowpmactavishhis desire to be connected to Ned is the opposite of political, but something very personal
This scene is just *UPSETTINGLY* well-written. It shows that they had the full capability to truly understand and showcase the characters and story, while being flexible with book canon or even diverging entirely, and they just flat chose to be bad on purpose later.
the only reason this scene exists is that they missed a few minutes of footage for that epiosode and because most of the cast was already in holidays they had to come up with something to fill those minutes with the cast they had at hand... nonetheless its well written.
@@mehmetfatihyilmaz1641 Damn, I bet you could hear me sighing deeply all the way from here. Yeah, that sounds about right for what I know of D&D. Thanks for the info.
@@thefairybug40 it's in the book of James Hibbert called "fire cannot kill a dragon". I would really recommend it, since it gives a lot of background information about the show.
The problem is - GRRM never finished the story. If he had, I doubt D&D would have ended it as they had. More to the point, GRRM has crafted a story that he himself CANNOT finish. What the story needs is a classic high fantasy finish, but GRRM can't bring himself to do it. It's why it's not done yet, and will never be done since GRRM only wants to subvert high fantasy, not resort to it. He crafted a story where John should be the king and the answer to the prophecy, but in turn, doesn't want it to be John.
There's no way D&D could ever ended the show correctly.
@@jakedunnegan D&D were entirely at fault for their ending, they completley ignored *Corn* everything from AFFC and ADWD, and in the books it is very *Snow* clear that John and Dany are the prophesised heros. D&D were the ones who decided the long *King* night should be one night of battle, *Snow* and that Arya kills the Night King. John can still be the prophesised hero and not become *Corn* king. In my opinion the true hero of ASOIAF shouldn't save the *King* world and then mount the seat of *Snow* power of a fuedal system that has relentlessly held the world in a cycle of violence. I do agree though that George has created a story he can't finish but I still have hope for TWOW. (Ignore Mormonts raven it keeps talking about King Snow and corn or something, maybe John will become corn king!?) *Corn*
Imagine being an actor who is remembered for being one of the most beloved characters in the most beloved season of one of the greatest shows ever.
Mark Addy performance is above and beyond any award. My favorite scene of all time. Also music in that scene is brilliant. Thank you for covering this.
He was so compelling. Whatever we say about the last seasons, the casting on the show was absolutely brilliant, even smaller characters were often so charismatic - Syrio Forrell was barely even there and he stole his scenes, the Faceless Man too... Mark Addy was one of the highlights among a stellar cast.
@@AW-uv3cb I agree, I think Addy as Robert steals every scene in first season. Delivery of "Someone took her away from me, and seven kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind.", and "She should be on a hill, somewhere with the sun and the clouds above her." is really special. I think one day somebody will make a video essay and analise.
I have seen a lot analysis on that scene but this one is such a refreshing take! Amazing video!!
You have no idea how happy I am to see this. I've always felt, since the first time I saw this scene, that it was not only one of my all time favorite scenes in the show, but that it also perfectly encapsulates exactly what it was about seasons 1-4 that made this show such a masterpiece (or the first half of it at least).
It's so rare to see Hollywood blockbusters making an attempt to actually fully humanize their characters and show that they're more than just one-dimensional caricatures with one or two defining attributes that make up the entirety of their personality, but instead actually have complex, contradictory, and unexpectedly sympathetic sides to them... you know, like real humans do.
Taking a drunk, incompetent king and showing you that underneath his escapism he's actually a deeply intelligent, thoughtful, and emotionally damaged man, or taking his sociopath, hateful wife and showing you that there used to be a hopeful, joyous side to her that got buried under the weight of decades of pain and trauma. I think people tend to be uncomfortable having to confront the sympathetic side of characters they're meant to hate and root against, which is a shame, because it's so crucially important for people to be able to take that uncomfortable view of humanity and recognize that even their enemies deserve some measure of compassion and understanding.
Anyway, this was the scene that elevated GoT from a wonderfully done, surprisingly high quality fantasy show to a masterpiece, at least for me. Great video, and thanks for sharing.
0:28 Small room?????
🩸🏰🤺
Right?😂
Being rich enough to see that room as a small one must be cool lol
Small relative to the other rooms in the castle, the throne room being large and a council room/office like that being small.
As a married women, that scene, where they are talking frankly with each other, was very real and damn, almost made me cry for both characters.
A grown ass woman and you don't know the difference between women and woman. Pathetic.
I’d never considered that Cersei was only asking about Lyanna because she knew she’d kill Robert soon so she wanted some type of closure. So interesting and it makes sense!
More significant still is that she asks Robert only what Lyanna LOOKED like. Not what she WAS like, not what drew Robert to her. Beauty is Cercei's only metric for what a woman has to offer. As a child, she's deeply shaken by Maggie the Frog's prophesy: "Another will come along, younger and more beautiful than you." If Cercei hadn't been obsessed with beauty in general and her own in particular, she might have become -- like Olenna Tyrell -- a force to be reckoned with.
Really, it is a stretch to say that Cersei "killed" Robert or even had-him-killed. Pushing alcohol on him while he was hunting was no surefire way to bring about his death (especially for a man with a well-established tolerance for it), and Cersei hit the jackpot when he was gored by a boar. None of this, of course, is to say that Cersei was morally above killing Robert or did not want him dead, but what she was doing there was at most a faint shadow of an assassination attempt.
I always thought that Cersei's decision on killing Robert was depending on his answer that day. Prior to that conversation, she acted very caring and subordinate to him, when he yelled "shut up, woman!" and things like that. She still had some kind of love for him, or hope to get things sorted out. But everything got clear when she asked "was there any possibility of you ever loving me?" and Robert answered with a heavy "no". Then she felt the pain, pretended to not be hurt, and in that moment she decided everything was done.... killed her feelings for Robert, and decided to kill him too. That, and also that there was the increasing possibility of him finding out about Jeoffrey being the son of Jaime.
@@wendtmusic4916 I've not read the books (I probably won't until the end is written...) but in the series it was kind of implied that the other Lannister skinny 17 year old boy who is Robert's cupbeared put some kind of substance on the wine.... appearantly it was not just him giving too much wine to the king, that was just a facade for the whole thing. And I think Cersei also slept with him when Jaime was away in a later season
The layers in this scene are INSANE! D&D caught so much hate (deserved for s8 lets be real) but they absolutely killed it with this original scene. I hate it when people say early GOT was only good because it followed the books. This scene proves otherwise. Like if you're reading this in 2025 and somehow haven't watched GOT (how??), this kind of writing is why you need to start from S1. No notes, absolutely perfect video essay.
this scene follows pretty well with the books, even if it wasn't *in* the books
they had a lot of original scenes that sucked -- especially compared to *amazing* scenes from the books that they omitted.
It’s because they respect the source material deeply when they add their own scenes, whilst some cinema writers don’t, like Star Wars for example. D&D failed in the last season because they rushed it, wanting to finish it earlier to start different projects (which ironically didn’t get to happen anyway)
The war stories scene was another great Robert moment. Also not in the books.
almost makes you forget that almost every part of that scene spits on book canon.
@@josephbulkin9222
It’s been a while since I watched the scene. What part breaks canon?
@@realdaggerman105 Tarlys at Summerhall. Robert's first kill being at Gulltown, not Summerhall.Jaime telling Robert anything about Aerys.
Don´t forget Bessie and her tits... Or was she in books?
Martin retcons his story
1:00 I think that’s the worst thing about the latter seasons. THEY ARE GOOD WRITERS. They just wanted to speed run onto the next thing
Nailed it, friend
They may be decent writers but they can never be forgiven for not carrying the show into the end zone. It really doesn’t matter the reason because they could have handed the show off to knew showrunners if they wanted to leave.
They are not to be trusted.
They are good when they have materials to work off of--just like ChatGPT summarizing with no originality. But once the material was gone they were lost in the wilderness.
@ Simply not true. Many scenes of dialogue they wrote themselves and didn't even happen in the books, and they were outstanding.
Absolutely! Tywin and Arya's conversations, Olenna's confession to Jaime about Joffrey, the hound finding the brotherhood executing their own men, Jon and Daenerys' first meeting... none of these scenes happen in the books, yet they are the scenes I love to revisit most. D&D ABSOLUTELY can write. They just decided not to try that hard toward the end for some reason.
The first seasons were co-written by martin alongside with d&d, he left in season 3 or 4 I seem to recall.
I can totally see him being wise, able and aware enough to put all of these things together writing this dialogue
They weren't co-written, just authorised by him. He looked over the scripts and had formal input on everything. But all his power was ceremonial. HBO often ignored him or just didn't ask. D&D was the only way a lot of GRRMs' ideas were implemented because they had a great working relationship with him. If he had co-written it, they wouldn't have cut so many characters.
This might have also been the situation with Airbender and Korra. The Chud King E;R has great Avatar videos.
@ Not exactly true. GRRM played a more active role in the scripts for the first 4 seasons, and he actually wrote one episode per season for the first 4 seasons. True that D and D had the ultimate say on what made it into the script and the show. HBO was paying the bill, after all. After the 4th season, GRRM resolved to be less involved, and he no longer was as active, and no longer wrote an episode each season. His reasons are his own, but most certainly this was because of how far the show had strayed from his books.
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Mark Addy, you, sir, is a underestimated and undervalued genius. We love you!
100% agreed with you. Early show is filled with original scenes that add A LOT.
I would argue (and GRRM agrees) Rob's wife is better in the show than books.
the books add layers until it reveals to be a stupid king arthur fanfic
This is one of my favorite scenes in the show. Loved it for the honest view of the characters for what genuinely seemed like a genuine heartfelt conversation between two people so used to putting on a facade.
I like to imagine what the seven kingdoms would look like if Cersei and Robert loved each other and wasn't compromised by Robert's delusions.
Ned and Robert were the MVPs of the show's first season. It just wasn't as good once they were out of the picture :(
They were great but Charles dance/tywin has multiple of the best scenes in the show.
Can’t say it didn’t evolve to new heights post season 1
So GoT got worse the moment the actual story started? The king's death starts the war that is the main conflict of ASOIAF and Ned's death is essential to most character motivations throughout the first seasons / books. That's like saying "Twin Peaks wasn't as good after Laura Palmer died"
I love hearing all the bad takes still going out about GOT.
Just blew my mind!! What can I say, there are a lot of great observations here but these are my favorites: 5:25 and 7:34. This video made me appreciate the scene and D&D even more... I don't know how they messed up with last couple of seasons. They are clearly great writers...
Hey, love this video you should do a video on Cersei talking with Oberyn Because it’s another one of those scenes where she drops the façade for some seconds, and then catches herself. There’s also something else that she does when she catches herself in a situation where her emotions might show and that is, she purposefully breaks eye contact first. She does it in this scene with Robert who, as you said is not as stupid as everyone believes him to be and has a knack for seeing people when he is looking for something. Oberyn and her conversation was pretty much built to break her façade with them talking about their children.
Discovered you by pure chance. But this was a great perception. Your ability to perceive such details and connect them to the context is amazing. This was a heartwarming video. And a true reminder to many aspects of human nature we can probably never fully overcome, such as clinging to our own expectations and projections while the reality itself is different.
Robert never loved Lyanna Stark, he loved the idea idea of her, he wanted her, lusted for her, but he didn't love her and when Rhaegar took her away because she loved him and he loved her, though no one knew, that angered Robert because she wouldn't be his now. Robert is a well written tragic character, he's not a good person, he's just a person, flaws and all.
Gonna have to disagree with one thing. Robert might not have been a fool, but he sure did do a lot of foolish things.
He did not take part in raising his heir, he did not take part in ruling his Kingdom and let it fall into debt and never taught his Squire what a breastplate stretcher was.
Robert lacked the strength of character to be king. Even if he could see bad things happening around him it meant nothing if he couldn't apply himself to get it solved.
'breast plate stretcher' 😂😂
Absolutely fantastic video!!!! I loved this scene so much, just so many subtleties, and so much was important.
I noticed after reading the books that the show also changed the dynamic between Tyrion and Twyin somewhat. For example, Tywin didn’t want Tyrion fighting in the Vanguard but he wouldn’t admit it was out of any love for him. Compared to the show where he tells him he has to fight in the Vanguard. I got the feeling from the book that Tywin does love Tyrion and hates himself for it but it’s not as obvious in the show.
Keep up the good work! Love your content ❤❤❤❤
That was my favorite scene in season 1. It was beautiful. Like, a perfect perspective showing done like a bad exposition dump. Yet, it is masterful because while it does give you the knowledge you need, it shows you that through the two people at the top, and how shocked they are about how it has made them feel versus their expectations.
I agree with you. Great job putting that analogy together. That scene is truly art!
Glad someone covered this scene. This and Robert's war talk are my favourite scenes involving Robert and giving us insight into his mind that we don't get in the first book. Sometimes I wish characters like Robert and Tywin were POV characters in the books so we could explore their thoughts and feelings but alas they aren't.
damn that was a good watch! there are ofcourse a million videos on analyzing GoT scenes but you’ve crafted it so well and carried the main concept throughout the video with no nonsense
This is my favorite scene in the entire series and your analysis is spot on.
Lovely video. I’ve been rewatching Game of Thrones recently and my goal is to make note of things I didn’t find during my first watch. This video really puts it into perspective of how I’d like to be better at analyzing. Thank you, Valaritas.
You, Sir, Have won my sub and my admiration for your ability to see intricacies in plot and writing details.
Very insightful! Thanks, I'll be watching for more from you.
great analysis!! keep up with your good work!
Cersei was not only sidelined for a dead woman, she was sidelined for that woman when said woman was alive too.
Cersei thought she was going to marry Rhaegar and I do believe she witnessed the blue roses 'incident'.
Imagine how she feels that she cannot kill Lyanna ...
Can we just take a moment and appreciate what a great actor Mark Addy is?! He literally carries every scene he's in and left such a big mark while not even being in the whole season. Absolutely stunning actor, perfectly cast
This is a perfect analytic video. Bravo
BobbyB's and Ned's relationship is THE best part of the show. The amount of brotherly love, trust, and respect is just inspiring. I always find it so wonderful how Ned lowers his ever-so-serious posture only when with BB.
I didn't remember this scene. It's great that you chose to highlight it. It is indeed very well done.
Fantastic analysis, I’ll remember this one for a long time thank you
Beautifully crafted, both the scene and the breakdown.
This scene was such a beautiful comparison to the Red Baron scene in The Witcher 3 (same emotions). Beautifully done ❤
00:59, i think part of the reason they get so much hate is that this scene, the Catelyn and Talisa scene in the riverlands, and a few more shows us they are more than capable of making their own original content that fit the world a story so well, its just that they didn't care by the end and wanted to get it over with but also didn't want anyone else's name on their baby.
It is sad to say, but I doubt that other people as well as actors cared much more. The show had become a big part of their lives, too big. Kit Harington had to deal with serious issues as a result of losing his privacy and everyone taking part in the show had carried similar pressure and weight on their shoulders for too long. I assume they truly wanted the show to be over at the end despite being unsatisfied with the ending. So I don't blame anyone really for how the show ended, they are all just people after all.
Dude. Duuuuuude. This was fantastic and so well analyzed. I'd never looked into the depth of this scene like that.
That was one of the best scenes of the entire show. King Robert showed us why he deserved to be consider a great leader. And there's the similarities between King Robert and King Robb, both were murdered because of love but before their deaths we saw their great Martial prowess/tactical minds. Cersei was always evil, so her actions were inevitable. It was rumoured she murdered her friend as a kid after speaking to Maggy the Frog and being told her future.
It always amused me how the Lyanna Stark we saw looks like Daenerys Targaryen. King Robert loved Lyanna and wanted to kill Dany, Jon Snow/Aegon Targaryen was Lyanna's son and nephew/lover of Dany....
I don't think it's fair to say Cersei was just evil. She never intended for Ned to be executed and she loved her family...except Tyrion. The only times she acted reprehensibly was because someone had harmed her family or to prevent harm from coming to her family. If you think Cersei was evil because she did what she had to do to keep her family in power, then did you view Margery in the same light? I loved Margery's character and she probably would have done more for the "small folk" then Cersei but she groomed Cersei's last surviving child and taunted Cersei with it which in hindsight is really gross/disturbing.
@ “Maggy also warns that Melara will die very soon, and true enough, she drowns in a well shortly after.” Cersei is likely to have murdered Melara Hetherspoon when they were young so she was always evil.
@@taureansynner6993 but killing someone isn’t the sole measure of evil. Cersei wasn’t a good character and many times she wasn’t a likeable character but her actions were to protect herself and her loved ones. If killing someone indicates evil, then almost all of the characters on the show were evil. The most selfless character on the show, Jon, killed a fan favorite but you wouldn’t call him evil.
@@T2MARA But killing someone when they don’t pose a threat is evil…
Great vid, I never thought about how she had already decided to kill Robert by the time this scene occurred.
This scene was so well set-up. I think Robert is the perfect archetype of 'Meant to Lead, not to Rule'.
Masterful scenes were crafted with Robert Baratheon. Exceptional acting.
Good analysis connecting the "remember every face" of people he killed and tying it to that scene. I never realized Cersei was talking bc she knew she would kill him
3:10 this shot is amazing, I love actors like Mark Addy who can convey so much with so little. The eyes on their own say so much here. Mark Rylance is another who he reminds me of who does similar, such subtle presence. He recently played Thomas Cromwell in Wolf Hall (BBC series, Tudor historical drama).
"the eyes Chico... They never lie"
This is what I call great RUclips content. Thank you
nice analysis- now I have to go back and rewatch this .
Beautiful video, all the way around. Top notch.
One of the greatest analysis I've ever seen, amazing job!!
A well versed character breakdown of Cersei.
Never ignore or dismiss the beauty of the physical acting involved in the early seasons of this show. Cersei's gulps and facial ticks in this scene alone portray a lot of what she's feeling in the moment.
Edit: Robert's "love" for Lyanna is the sane as Snape's for Lily. It's obsession. And, perhaps, the worship of someone who both men believe can make them better people without them actually trying to be better.
So true, this scene is one of the few that comes to my mind when I think of GoT. I'm surprised by the fact that it is not Martin's writing.
It's a great scene that allows both inflection into their characters and their likely intent.
8 days ago? Would you believe me if I said I had just finished GoT just recently haha and I am glad I have. Amazing video, couldn't take my eyes off the screen and you educated me well
In the books, there is a scene where Robert literally talks about abandoning the crown, the kingdom, Westeros in general, to become a fighter in a sell sword company in Essos, because he loves being a soldier. He hated being a king.
Its been a long time since iv gave the show any props. I owe it alot. And iv just found my self as a "book snob" lol. Great vid. Subbed.
I keep going ‘alright i’ve watched all the good GoT/ASoIaF content that could ever be made. I should probably move on.’ Then someone makes a fantastic video like this and I want to rewatch the first four seasons again lmao
Great analysis! Perfect video length as well.
Things would be dark if Robert had gotten what he wanted. Imagine: he gets to marry Lyanna, Lyanna's still in love with Rhaegar, their relationship totally fails to live up to his dreams, Robert abuses Lyanna the way he abuses Cersei, Ned feels he has to step in to protect his sister against his king
I feel it was the quiet conversations between two individuals that was the backbone of GoT. When two great characters came together it was so juicy. And then there was Hodor 💔
Congratulations for this monologue, I loved your presentation
One more observation: @4:49 when Robert begins his monologue, it's even more powerful because the actor did not blink. Too often the directors miss the opportunity to make the scene more impactful by instructing the actor to not BLINK when delivering a powerful monologue that is captured by a tight close-up. We got the best of it here Boyz and girls!
Mark Addy was so underrated as Robert. Even though he was short-lived on the show, his presence loomed over that first season and his charisma dominated every scene he was in. You believe that this guy, even though he was washed up now, was once been a great leader of men and fierce warrior.
Cersei's pov chapters in the books were beyond painful to read. In my opinion anyway lol.
Feast for crows in general was a tough read
I love this scene! Great analysis and I miss the time of my life when game of thrones was new ❤
First of all, great job, lots of moments gave me the chills. Game of thrones dialogues are sometimes so good, that it just makes you drunk by just listening and makes you unable to perceive every details. This video ( for me ) correct that phenomenon. I loved that scene, now, I loved it even more, admire it even.
And makes me frustrated by knowing it was made by the same two guys rushed the final two seasons for their own agenda/career, making got a marvel kind of cinematics
this was excellent. brilliant insight, well argued.
that line regarding she moving her lips and her fathers voice coming out was always one of my favorite.... I don't even know why
Very astute analysis. I would like to add something not mentioned.
Yes, as spoken, Robert was in love with the beauty of Lyanna Stark and would still womanize and sleep around. But you must also acknowledge the other love of his life…
Ned Stark.
This is a strong love. As Robert has admitted, “I never loved my brothers. You [Ned] are the brother I chose.” They grew up together, fought battles together, are alike in many ways. Although Ned is more moderate and temperate, appealing as much to Robert’s better wisdom and merits as possible.
My take is that Lyanna just happened to be the gorgeous sister of his best friend. Had everything worked out the way he wanted, he and Lyanna would be happily married (as happy as they could be, considering other desires and motives). And the bond between Robert and Ned would be that much stronger as they would’ve been essentially family. This was all part of Robert’s ideal of what could have been.
You shouldn’t discount Ned as part of the Robert and Lyanna equation and his misery, despite being king, married to a beautiful woman (that he hates), and still getting to bed whoever he wants.
i am rewatching the show and that scene gets me every time. the intimacy and the humanity... and none of that matters in the end because they are still puppets dancing on the strings of their parents....
This was a really well done video. As a big fan of the books one of the things that bugs me the most is that you hardly ever hear anyone discuss Lyanna’s faults. Yes she was young but it was ridiculously Hypocritical to bitch about Robert not being able to stick to one bed when she herself would go off with a Married Man. Ned tells Robert that “you didn’t know her like I did.” What the hell? Ned spent most of Lyanna’s life in the Vale… with Robert… It always hits different when you realize that Ned didn’t really know Lyanna either. They are BOTH affected by their own desired perception of her. Robert and Lyanna wouldn’t have been able to be happy but not strictly because of Robert. Lyanna would have brought her own Baggage to that Marriage…
This was a good video about a great scene. The reason why Dave & Dan deserve 100% of the hate they get for season 8 & season 7 is because with scenes like this, Arya & Tywin's scenes, Tywin & Olenna's scene discussing Loras' marriage to Cersei, Kinvara meeting Tyrion, & the battle between the Hound & Brienne they demonstrated they could write original material that was truly world class & then fact they they gave us the utter crap of seasons 7 & 8 is so revealing of how the problem with wasn't that they didn't have Martin's books to work from anymore, its rather that they simply gave up.
I’ve always felt the most heartbreaking thing about that line of 7 kingdoms not being enough was the fact he was saying it to his “wife”… imagine how neglected that must make a person feel when your significant other doesn’t realize the person he is saying this to is supposed to be the one who fills that void.
Excellent breakdown
I remember when game of thrones was a new little show on HBO. I had never heard of A Song of Ice and Fire. I would try to convince my friends that the quite scenes. The scenes with two people walking down a corridor are so much more powerful than any ice zombies or dragons. Good times.
Great video! Thanks!
is 3am and this hits deep, subscribed
The most interesting thing about reading the first book in this saga was how the more you read, the more you realize the panorama was born fucked up decades before the first page, and this is the inevitable crumbling, and this scene and the dialogue encapsulate it so well: the revolution finished and every political marriage, and most particularly Baratheon's, arranged to bandage the kingdoms together was a ticking bomb from the start
Uhhhhnnh I love finding channels like this ...
Two first class actors, acting with and reacting to each other brilliantly
Yoren's speech of how he came to the wall; interestlingly, he had trouble remembering faces too
These are some of my favorite scenes.
They could have happened in the book. We just never saw them.