The Cheapest Character in Street Fighter History
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- Опубликовано: 25 апр 2024
- Today we talk about the Street Fighter 2 character Vega aka Claw aka Balrog. In Super Turbo he was a menace, causing insane mixups and great normal moves.
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This video reminds me of one summer where I terrorized a summer camp playing Vega. The camp had a store that had Street Fighter 2 Championship Edition and I would just go in to practice characters. Every night after dinner, the kids would come in and start pumping quarters. Now, all I wanted was my four plays for a dollar. If someone was behind me, I would move on. I don't like to hog games. But they kept trying to take me on. And I was practicing Vega. I would spend maybe two hours a night on the same quarter just destroying these kids. It would honestly get old. I would want to change characters, but I would play Vega all evening. Vega was my warm-up guy and I would play him to loosen up and then practice with the ones I wasn't as good with. For five days straight, I'm stomping kids to the point I'm starting to feel bad. But I'm NEVER going to let someone win. Finally, in these kids' movie moment, one of them steps up to the plate, plays Bison and finally beat me! Not being cheap doing multiple psycho crushers. Just being SMART and watching me and timing his moves. A fair and square defeat! Those kids were cheering for him and might as well have carried him out on their shoulders. A tip of my hat to the one kid that finally beat me fair and square.
Vega screams were even more horrifying, after barely not being reduced to tatters, realizing Sagat was the next opponent...
I've played a lot of Street Fighter in my day, and was excited when I saw my barbershop had a mini SNES setup with SF2 (I forget which version). I was getting bodied by like the 4th CPU opponent. I swear to god they're just programmed to read inputs. Shit's brutal lol. Don't even get me started on Mortal Kombat AI
@@zeroethsort1071Yeah, _Mortal Kombat_ games were easily the worst of the old CPU enemies about blatantly reading *all* of your inputs, especially around _MK3_ where they would alternate between blocking almost everything you did and constantly walking towards only to *instantly* react to your button press. I remember returning _Mortal Kombat Trilogy_ over that because it just made the game unfun and unplayable.
@@zeroethsort1071Goro was the worst 💀
It looks so weird to see a Street Fighter character zipping around even more than a Smash Melee character.😅
Claw zips around WAY LESS than a Melee character does.
SF as a game used to be a lot faster than it is now.
@@MonkeyKingSSBM more mobility than puff. Faster than Fox.
@@joejoneshis not faster then fox but he got that agility for sure
The real problem with walldive is not that it's a mixup or that it's hard to escape. It's that even if you do know how to AA it, Vega can deploy early to land the walldive shallow and make your AA whiff, then sweep you and start pressure. At a certain level of play, there's no consistent way to beat it: you have to either make a hard read or get lucky (the former is how Choi beat Tokido at Evo 2008)
Not only that, don't forget that you can control its trajectory during the move to psyche out your opponent, hit their blindside or even make them afraid to do anything so that you can grab 'em with the Izuna Drop.
Full mastery of the Flying Barcelona Attack/Izuna Drop will no longer make it into a coin flip. It outright becomes 80/20 or even 90/10 because it's so hard to defend against. But good luck pulling off that shit in Champion Edition or SSF2 vanilla because of their different speed. I don't know if you can do it in Hyper Fighting.
" At a certain level of play, there's no consistent way to beat it: you have to either make a hard read or get lucky"
This is true of most fighting games from the simplest of beginner tricks all the way up. There's no consistent way to just beat Ryu's fireball for free when he's varying how he delivers it. You have to predict when and how he's doing it in order to break through.
That's what the game *is*.
@@JD-xz1mxyeah kind of a weird comment by that guy. Most options in fighting games don't have 100% answers, what makes Vegas dive strong is the risk-reward combined with the high execution requirement to even reversal it properly.
@@JD-xz1mx nono, hes right
@@JD-xz1mx the consequences of walldive being that good and fireball being that good are flatly incomparable.
There is also a ultra cheap Trick when you Play in spain(vegas Stage) Hit the enemy one time make Sure to have more health then him and crawl in the cagewall Till end of Match.
Timeout win everytime
“Old games had proper neutral”
The proper neutral in question:
..... What?
Vega's dive loop isn't part of the neutral at all. It is by definition a from knockdown loop. You can't criticize Super Turbo's neutral with an example that isn't in neutral.
@@JD-xz1mx ...Pretty sure that's the joke. That even older fighting games have always had at least one or two moves that are--ugh--"neutral skips" for one reason or another while too many people act like it's an entirely new thing exclusive to modern fighting games.
@@MusicoftheDamned Because drive rush is a universal neutral skip the entire cast can do. One or two moves associated with a character is a bit different from everybody having access.
@@clarencegutsy7309 I suppose, though it still seems...hyperbolic for some of the people complaining about Drive Rush in that way to act like Drive Rush is the first ever instance of it. That Drive Rush is somehow the first in a fighting game--it's at best the first in _Street Fighter_ and even that's a bit debatable--rather than maybe the first really visble instance they have personally encountered. As you say, it's a universal mechanic, so of course it's going to be more noticeable even when neutral still exists despite it. Not saying that's all the people who have issues with Drive Rush, just some of them I have seen in passing.
I can understand some of complaints about Drive Rush, but honestly, if it's between Drive Rush at its supposed worst and a move that's essentially the "[teleports behind you] Nothing personnel [sic] kid" meme with its own built-in death-loop, I will definitely take Drive Rush personally. (I still think "neutral skip" is a dumb term, but I digress.)
Goofy mf
Not even the Claw player knows which side he's hitting
That's why it's fair
I remember a long time ago I was playing Street fighter IV and my brother was real into Vega, so I decided to watch a lot of the Japanese players on their tournaments and see what they were doing. I learned so many cross ups and an overhead Mix-Ups from those players. I had played a match on the Xbox 360 and whipped this ken players ass and I remember he sent me a message over the Xbox chat saying "Dude that was the craziest shit I ever seen with Vega in my life haha" are man that was so rewarding for sure!!!.
Sf4 and 5 Vega paid for SF2/A3/CVS2 crimes lol
Capcom never allowed him to be top tier again 😢
Shout out to bro for not being toxic and calling u a Vega pussy 😂 ggs
The cheapest fighter is whoever DSP is currently fighting
Ack ack ack get banned detractor
The cheapest SF character of all time was M. Bison in the first SFII Championship Edition. All a guy had to do was that torpedo move back and forth across the screen. If you blocked it, he'd still nail you 5 or 6 times, and then come at you from the other side.
what? if you block a move, it obviously doesn't nail you.
@@mrosskne He means "nail" as in do significant chip damage; enough chip damage to COUNT.
@@mrosskne One blocked Bison dive did about as much damage as an unblocked hadoken.
“He also plays way more defensively than other vegas”
Shows a clip of MAO being hyper aggressive lol😂
Well, they do say the best defense is a good offense
Rush down Vega 💀
"They were forced to swap the names"
Not explicitly. There was no cease and desist. I think it was Capcom legal that got cold feet about the possibility and asked them to change it for the US release as a prophylactic measure. They also didn't have to rotate the names like this. If you can code the names to rotate you can code in one new unique name for boxer. Such strange decision.
I remember reading somewhere that creating a unique name was alot more difficult than you would imagine, they would have had to create new graphics or something. They needed a quick fix so they just swapped them.
Mike Tyson didn't even know Balrog/M. Bison was supposed to be him until recently.
So great to see a new vid from you! Love these glimpses into fighting game history
I'm not a good SF2 player at all, but I've beaten people on Fightcade with Vega by simply doing the 50/50 wall dive over and over. What's more surprising to me is that my opponents are never disrespectful about it in chat, it's like yeah they expect it from a Vega nothing new.
They know only bad players result to the cheesy tactics
@@markxv2267 Except good players do it too as the video literally shows, so that logic goes out the window. If you're about to say "oh they suck as well" than I'd love to see you challenge them yourself.
@@markxv2267 that's scrub talk
@@seventhson2151yeah, in your delusional reality only (where you have to justify your scrub tactics however you can in order to be able to look at yourself in the mirror).funny how with your kind every acussation is a confession. In the REAL world you wouldn't get any respect from NOBODY by doing this! And back in the day you'd get dragged to the back of the arcade and get stopped out till you're nothing but mush. But yeah, whatever makes you sleep at night, scrub...
@@markxv2267If a tactic is strong, you should use it. There's no such thing as cheesy. You either win or you don't.
I remember back in the infancy of internet play, I got an X Play for the Super NES. I played Super SF2 frequently against this one guy, Brimstone, and he murdered me with Vega about 95% of the time we played. And it went exactly like it's shown here, Wall Dive after Wall Dive after Wall Dive, throw in a Claw Drill just to mess with you more, repeat.
It was all in fun, was just happy to play, but man was it frustrating. Proof of why I don't play competitively.
I love (playing as) Vega
The OG neutral skip
That was a really good video. I look forward to future content! Keep it up!
Great video. And I especially love the background music
I just saw Justin's sagat being air grabbed while he was in the motion of 'tiger uppercut' , that was unreal. Apparently that jump to the wall thing is a very high tier move.
buddy that studio setup! solid video my dude!
awesome video. can u provide the name of the retrowave theme music you used in the intro of this video, Thank you...
Vega (Claw) will always be my favorite SF Character!
love your videos papa its good to see you back
Claw doesnt have low health in Super Turbo, all characters have the same health in street fighter 2.
Love ur videos man I need more !
Vega's theme suits him Very well, you feel like in a dance with all these pokes, quick jumps and a stupidly fast run. My homie Vega is simply HIM
Super Turbo Vega is just an A.I enhancement. Real Vega can’t hurt you unless you’re playing Super Turbo.
Enjoyable and informative video to watch! Would've been better if it had some kind of outro.
What's really odd for me is that I grew up in the '90s and I watched a whole lot of other people play Street fighter 2 but I barely ever played it. I guess I'm not that big in the fighting games. I mean I do love the SNES version of killer instinct and I have enjoyed a few of the soul Calibur and Tekken games but primarily when it becomes to fighting games typically the one I play is Super Smash Bros. Particularly Super Smash Bros ultimate. Nevertheless this was a very interesting video to see and I'm glad it showed up in my recommendations. I wasn't even aware of this technique.
I use to drive my friend crazy with that move! Before suplex city there was “Air Spain!” 😭
I think OG Street Fighter 2s Zangief is cheapest ever when I use him. Crouching weak jabs into Screwdriver, works even if you block the jabs. And when you are getting up, Zan is already right next to you for a rinse and repeat even if you're not in the corner for an unstoppable MASSACRE! I used to take mad people's quarters at the arcade with that. Championship Edition on makes you bounce too far away from each other after the Screwdriver to do it. Vega's my guy too, wall dive grabbing all those shotos out of their spin kicks! 🔥🔥🔥
Its a good day when papa lobster uploads
Amazing video subbed
Great and informative video!
I was just visiting your channel yesterday and I wondered when you'd come up with a new video, guess I manifested it!
I know this vid is focused on competitive play and it’s really good (I watched the whole thing) but can someone give me a tip for Vega for 1CC attempts, when he dismounts from the cage and flies down it’s like he can claw me or grab me and I have no way of knowing which is coming, and also my anti-airs consistently fail to interrupt him when he is descending on me, thank you for the video great stuff 😊
Thank you for making a video on this. Even without the dive loop, Claw is unquestionably top tier in ST. The loop just sends him over every other character in the game.
Also, MAO is DEFINITELY not a defensive Claw
I don’t know anything about advanced strats in street fighter 2. I’ve been playing for 30 years and still a scrub. I do know how to do wall dive shenanigans with vega though and I remember absolutely running lobbies for hours because of it. It got to the point where if I even put my cursor over him people would drop out immediately. THAT shows you how broken the character is. Like his move set is far too different than the other characters for most people to properly deal with. You can have people getting thrown left and right for days lol
There's a pic of Mao not having an opponent despite the arcade being very busy...
Also, even PECO with Gouki has trouble beating Mao...
Reminds me of what it’s like to play kazuya or Steve in smash bros. He just feels so out of place
I remember that at the arcade, people where usually:
1) WTF
2) Still ain't beating me
3) Cheap @$$
4) *AND YOU STILL LOST!*
The music is pretty awesome for you video. Any chance of a track list? shazam was no help...
I just started using Vega after 30 years of playing dudes a beast. Good video
Why is he allowed to turn up to a martial arts contest with a flipping metal claw?! 😁
@@PKaye-ru2ks i don’t know but super street fighter 2 cpu is stacked against you and Vega’s claw is an edge
@PapaLobster Actually, Vega first appeared in Street Fighter Alpha trilogy.
Great video, high quality. Some of the content I disagree with and how the statements were phrased, but overall good video.
I always found the Guiles flask kick was a good counter to the Vega wall jump. You would either hit him or go away from him if you guest wrong.
I used to have a harder time beating Vega than I did VS M. Bison on the SNES single player mode. You could try dragon punching him but it didn’t always work out and he could beat projectile spam too
Excellent video..I'm a first time viewer. You look like Chumlee from Pawn Stars lol. I had to check the handle to see if it really is.
I thought he looked (and sounded) like Silent Bob.
Vega's normal crouch mid-punch is one of the fastest moves in the game. Also, his low roundhouse slide helped me get around anyone that figured the former out.
Also, as a charge character, an offensive vega is one that understands the angles he uses to attack; this is why most Vega mains play defensively. In most cases, players whiff or are countered when using his air normals.
As a kid Vega felt like a final boss I always felt happy after I beat his ass 😂
Im curios How this compares to world warrior guile or champion edition infinite bison?
In my opinion, World Warrior Guile (w/ bug moves, specifically Magic Throw, also Hand Cuffs and Hard Reset The Game) is the cheapest character in Street Fighter history. WW Guile already was dominant before the bugs emerged. But Magic Throw (move that drops opponent to ground and drags them toward or away from you, and can be chained to keep opponent from being able to perform any move, until opponent is KO'd) had no answer. Also, another thing that made WW Guile cheap was that only one player could use him at a time. So there was no mirror counter available.
So Vega may be cheap but he is not broken.
They nerf him very badly then… but i miss his gameplay. He’s the most fun pokey character
I feel like Vega (Claw) *is* still paying for how absurd his _Super Turbo_ incarnation is all these years later--unlike, ironically, Sagat--since he's been jank in almost every game he's been in after it. The last game where he was actually good is like _CvS2_ at this point, which feels weird to say. I'm still unsure whether his issues are caused by spite, by an overabundance of caution, by having no idea how to balance the guy when his normals can be hit and his Wall Dive doesn't travel at Mach 1, or by some combination thereof. All I know is that his "handsome fighters never lose a battle" win quote has become super ironic in the years following _ST_ since losing is all modern Vega seems capable of currently.
The part where they changed the names for US release blew my mind. First time I heard this but makes so much sense.
Street fighter 2s Balrog looked like Tyson so much, they had to change his face too. Now that i think of it, he was light skinned like him too lol! EVERYBODY watched Mike fights.
Not only is the cheapest character in Street Fighter history, but I'd say he's the most difficult one to beat for novice players of Street Fighter. I remember playing SF II: The World Warrior for SNES as a kid and it took me many times to finally defeat Vega.
Yessss! Give us papa lob vids!!!
Ah the Fear and Hunger meta
Been waiting for a new vid!
So this is what Chumlee is doing now? I fucking love it.
Vega just needs to be 'snuffed' - stay above him and pressure him into the corner. He has surprisingly bad air-to-air, so most characters can catch him high and keep the pressure on.
Sir, I think the time has come for you to cover The Hakan Comeback of Evo 2013
I was never very good with him but he's a nightmare against someone who is
The reason M. Bison name got changed was not only due to being similar to Mike Tyson but this was around the time he went to jail for rape. So......yeah....not a good idea.
We need a video on the Hakan comeback. I know that Hakan, when oiled, is one of the strongest, if not the strongest, characters in the game, I just dont know why.
The 4th place ST EVO Champ lost to a claw mirror
That guy was abusing lag! LOL!
Cheering to Vega come even more cheap in SF6!
Vega makes more sense to me to be the name of a Spaniard.
My dude Vega is so overpowered.
I wonder if they will dare to bring him back in their next version of Street Fighter VI.
I dont believe they change the names because M Bison was to similar to Mike Tyson. The Japanese clearly changed the letters to make the homage pass without being considered usage of proprietary brand/name or whatever.
I am more inclined to think that they thought Vega was a horrible name to the Phillipino military guy and M Bison would give him more of a misterious aura because, you know, the M... and also because they thought Vega sounded more like a spanish torero guy name, leaving Balrog to the boxer, assuming they thought Sagat was a good name for the tall guy.
If it was just a mike tyson name thing they would have just changed his name to a new one instead of swaping names of the guys
I've heard a pretty decent argument that the "hidden four" were specifically designed to force arcade players to learn how to handle facsimilies of actual player strategies. Of course, that made balancing them to be playable a lot harder.
hidden four?
Vega VS Yoshimitsu would be an interesting match up
I'mm gonna be that guy, 2:10
That's not a disjointed hitbox.
Disjointed hitboxes are not connected to any hurtboxes. Many characters in ST have this kind of hitbox at the time stamp, where the hitbox extends further than its hurtbox.
Some characters even have disjoints, however this is not an example of that.
You can definitely score a trade with your example. Real disjoints don't trade. At most they clash.
@0:25 sorry to correct you but coin tosses are 50/50, well executee hyobal is WAY worse than 50/50 because you will block "correctly" and still get thrown plus unblockable w/certain setups. MAO did not win a 50/50 coin toss eleven billion times in a row. Graham Wolf was the first one to analyze MAO's walldive tech in the USA imo
Great Vid
you should do an avoiding the puddle video amigo :)
That why he call Vegas. The Casio city
I saw a comment that said Vega’s still paying for his crimes in Super Turbo
Damn did not know they had name swaps 🤯
Used Vega in the early days of SSF2 in the 90s, I didn't know he was just that good. I just assumed I was better than my opponents. 😅
I love using him in Capcom vs SNK 2
If Flying Barcelona was the problem then you should rename the video to the "cheapest attack in SF history"
I like using Vega or claw in super street fighter 4 for 3ds, ive beat it couple hundred times with him, im not that good at street fighter 2 though.
Why to end phrases like you were talking through one of those tracheostomy device things? Or like a sexy robot…
what are you talking about?
Vega is a decent name for a Spanish character (and not very good for an American boxer), maybe that's why he was part of the name swap. Don't know why they didn't just unilaterally change M Bison's name though.
El Fuerte in IV was even worse, time to guess!
Everything about Vega being cheap is true, but his wall move isn't that big a deal to tier-1 characters. Ryu/Ken don't have to time and work out which way for a dragon punch. They just jump back and kick.
Nice bro
I thought balrog WAS modeled after mike Tyson XD
All I remember about this game is playing it on NES or some console and after spending weeks learning all the moves and trying to get gud, the kid next door beats me and the entire game with adookin, adookin, adookin. That's when I decided I'm done with fighting games.
he returns! !!
My brother loved vega. Made me good against him. Im not scared
best tournament player. bring it back
I love how people complain about drive rush when this guy exists
We don't complain because as soon as we see st vega then we know what's comming
Why's his name balrog in the game? Is that a bug?
The Japanese version swaps some names around. He explains it in the video.
Nobody wanted to be Vega except me and they hated me for this stuff....lol
Player Skill will always be number 1
Unless it's pre-patch Street Fighter 4 and Balrog Fireballs ;)
Claw is still paying for his transgressions in SF2 even until SF5.
SF2 was the first and last time Claw was ever relevant.
He was good in Alpha 3 and amazing in CvS2.
@@Captainabrik noted. I didn't follow CvS2 and alpha 3 competitively so wasn't aware of this.
Vanilla SF4 Claw was a thing of beauty lmao
have fun landing four unplinkable 1f links for mediocre damage.
Oh yeah glad you pointed out the way he MOVES/WALKS, that mf has no right being that flexible.
Well im glad that you didnt even mention my dad in this considering that this is the cheapest characterin street fighter