Thanks for the Summary Results. I'm going to have to rewatch again to see which of the "clean" additives also started quickly/ran smooth too. Sad they didn't at least run extended/additional tests (or have they? Original Plan suggested a 10 month (total test) revisit) on the "new" additives that didn't Gel Up/Rust during the "Winter Storage" test. Given they "might" possibly perform better then the other samples that all were failed/failing after an extra 14 months. Would be interested in seeing how the Walbro (Evergreen scented?) and Lucas products fair after extended storage (Maybe an "extreme" test with vented cans under poor weather/environment for 2-3 months? Might simulate a "forgetful" user that didn't properly seal a Gas Can or is using old fuel for treatment?)
I leave the fuel with a stabilizer in the tank. I just shut the valve and run dry. The gas has always been fine after winter here in Minnesota. If I stored it for years I’d run them dry.
Well like they say, all good things must come to an end! Thanks Teryl for your dedication to this project. Now you can concentrate on more Service Bulletin Classics! 😁👍
Have to say this is the top experimental design I’ve seen to date with fuel stabilizers. Not because it’s a white-coat lab deal, but because it’s total real world. Even I can make sense of this. Thank you, you’ve settled my product choice.
I enjoyed this journey. I did a similar test back in the ‘90s and into the 2000s. Ended up with close to the same results. Later on in 2015 I tried the test again with newer equipment and newer products. In my tests then, SeaFoam and Mechanic In A Bottle were the absolute worst. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve had someone argue with me over the best fuel stabilizers in the last 30 plus years, I wouldn’t have to turn wrenches anymore. Non ethanol fuel is the best fuel treatment.
I’ll just stick with non ethanol fuel with no additives, I’ve never had carburetor problems on any of my equipment. I’ve got equipment that’s 5 years old and it sits with a full tank after every use. Store them in winter all completely full of fuel that way you don’t get condensation in the tank
@@notajp Ethanol gas is a disaster in so many ways. First of all it actually puts more carbon in the atmosphere than the alternative. You need to tell your representatives to stop it
I haven’t purchased a new mower in a while, but the owner’s manual for all of my Toro equipment whether it be a mower or snowblower have all stated to drain the tank and run the engine out of fuel before storage. I have followed this procedure and the only carburetor issues I have experienced have been dirt or wear related issues. Thanks for the fuel tests Taryl, it was interesting to see the results of leaving fuel in equipment through the seasons.
I like the bowl nut design because it's simple to clean with welding tip wire - I had that on my toro lawnmower (owned for over 25 years) and had to clean it 4 times
Can only add my 2 cents, I've been using Sta -bil for 30+ years the Marine and now the 360 in all my equipment and muscle cars for storage over the winter with never a problem and that's with 10% fuel. But I never push it over 5 months draining it out and refilling if need be and some equipment like the snowblowers and leaf vacs I store with tanks full and don't drain plus I use it year round.
Received my order from your online store of the small licenses plate and the HV350 glue, Thank You and Thank you for the free sticker. First time placing an order long time fan.
Brillant work gentlemen. I use that term loosely, Ronnie. I agree with your findings. And all of them after about nine months are going varnishey quick. So that “up to 2 years” claim on most of them, is well, snake oily. The keywords that protect their claim are “up to”. You can smell the difference also, when its going sour. Correct in also stating the alkali fuels are best for storage and protecting the rubber and plastic. I dont think theres as much power from those those fuels, haven’t tested that myself, but have been advised that. I dont think in lower horsepower engines thats a big deal, but in higher ones you might not be getting “all of it”, like the feller going by in the begging of the video. Lol so another thing to consider is since ethanol and methanol are alcohols, modern gasoline is full of water right from the pump. They claim the O2 in alcohol is to help the catalytic converters, but i think it was before alcohols in fuel, water would sit in the storage tanks at ports and have be accounted for in the selling price, and have to be purged from the tanks every so often. Now all of that extra volume from humidity/condensation can be sold as gasoline and “up to” a third more in profit. Free money for the oil companies. You can take raw fuel from a pump, put it in a jar, and reverse the process. And then see how much of your gasoline was actually water. Im sure theres a proper youtube video for it. Again thanks for your great video and solid scientific advice. Mahalo! 🤙🏼😎🌴🌋👍🏼
Great job on this one guys... The whole series was really good.... I know you were having a little fun there, calling them all snake oil, but some did seem to work for the 5-6 months..... I admire the dedication, to stick with this test, and really do it, for such a long term. Very well done.
My thoughts exactly, great test overall, but some do seem to help for the half a year test. None of my stuff sits more than that, and if it does, I drain the carbs, and keep the tanks full but cycle the fuel every now and then. That being said, I wish E0 was available closer to home, it’s the way to go with a small engines.
It's a popular non ethanol Alkalyte fuel in the UK as well and is getting more popular everyday due to customers getting fed up with starting issues with equipment.
I wonder if the "fuel stabilizer" claims of the older brands, such as Seafoam or MMO, were that they kept the classic non ethanol type gas fresh? Those formulas would have pre-dated the modern ethanol fuels most likely right? Remember there was a time when we stored nothing but non ethanol regular gas and I'd guess they're not made to do anything special with ethanol. Remember how it would turn into that varnishy smelling stuff after a while and fuel stabilizer was supposed to keep it fresh longer? Would be interesting to see non ethanol gas with stabilizer in it and see how long it lasts.
Teryl has videos with nonethanol pump fuel gas 🎵 that you could search. I'd bet (but could definitely be wrong) that companies that produced additives preethanol have updated their formula for ethanol.
One thing I couldn't help but notice is that the rust was shown on those that are near the outside opening. Maybe this is why there was rust on the bowls there? Love what you do!
Interesting test, start to finish.. personally I drain carbs on anything I can. The lawn tractors I fill with fresh gas and Stabil at beginning of storage then make sure to run then for a good 20 minutes every couple months during the winter and early spring. There’s your dinner!
Ive left weed eaters for 1 year and start fine. I think the 2 stroke oil mixed in helps preserve the gas. And in New Zealand we don't use ethanol in general
All of my small engines which are all from the early 90’s have always been drained of fuel at the end of the season and none of them have ever has their carbs rebuilt, they start up like new every new season, so I agree with Taryl that them additives are just snake oil. Drain your fuel every season and we have access to non ethanol fuel where we live and that is what we use. Thanks for sharing the video.
That is the way to go. I drain my Honda sno blower in the Spring. Put some Mystery oil in the cylinder. Spray the empty gas tank with WD-40. In the fall, I fill her up with premium non-eth and fire her up... 15 years and she runs like new !!
@@peteosinga8845 - all my tanks are plastic but we live in a very high humidity place during the summer and I have never had a moisture problem in my tanks
I use E0 high test gas in my OPE. No problems at all. I sometimes add a small dose of 2 cycle oil to the 2 gallons of gas but that's hit or miss, so no difference over winter.
19:42 It would be interesting to see how the Ethanol Shield would have performed if it was mixed properly. In the previous video in this series he mixed the treatment for this video at 1/2 oz per gallon when the bottle he was holding and pointed at said 1 oz per gallon for “storage”. Can we expect manufacturers claims to be accurate if we don’t mix the product to their specifications?
Fuel shut off and run dry. That's been working fine for me in my snowblower and garden tractor for years. I haven't even drained the fuel tanks. After seeing here that Seafoam isn't that great i am sorry i bought 2 or 3 cans when it was on sale. Some fresh fuel added to the tanks is all i have done when i put them back to use. Have always used some type of stabilizer. No problems. My Toro snowblower is from the late 1970's and has the original Tecumseh engine on it. I'm the second owner.
It would’ve interesting to test gas from different gas stations. Each gas station chain uses different additives that may or may not have an effect on ethanol buildup. Some busier gas stations like the ones along a highway or rest stop might have their storage fuel tanks filled more frequently so the gas is always fresh(?). I think it’s worth testing. Shell, Sunoco, BP, Chevron, Mobil, Sheetz, WaWa, Exxon, and Citgo just to name a few. I know there’s no way to test every single gas station brand but at least test the popular ones that are most common across the country or your area.
the bp's Indiana whiting plant refinery " can produce enough gasoline each day to support the average daily travel of more than 7 million cars" ; the question is , that same gasoline produced is it delivered to the different gzs stations in the area and beyond
We call that gel “the grey goo” back in the day when ethanol was introduced to gas all the service stations were required/recommended to have they’re tanks pumped out in order to receive the new gas. Well one station (owned by cheap skates) decided not to. In my state up to 3” of water was allowed by law in the bottom of tanks, I delivered the first truckload of gas to this station and within a day the station was shutdown. All that ethanol had separated and the grey goo plugged up all the filters and became a gelatinous slime ball inside the in ground tank. Needless to say the removal process cost a lot of $$$$, but hey it was self inflicted the owners were cheap skates and very wealthy so hitting them in the pocket book was the only way they would learn.
Wow , thats crazy . Here in Calif . I worked for one of the majors and we never had any problems like that . Maybe something else like all that water stirred up when you unloaded cause it ? Who knows ?
The mechanics at our local marina tell me that ethanol causes no end of fuel system problems for them. Fortunately the marina sells non ethanol gas and I have no problem. The tests by TD have been really interesting and useful. I think it's a ripoff that some of these products caused more damage than doing nothing, such as the gelled gunk in the carb bowl. My sense is that if you can use non ethanol gas in your power equipment, then drain tank and carb for storage, you should be ok. Also, I mix one ounce of Gumout in the gas I use for power equipment to help keep the carb clean. Never had a carb problem.
You used STA-BIL 360 PROTECTION in this video and also the previous video series that ran over a 19 month period. When I read the add for this product it promises to keep your fuel fresh for only 12 months. So the fact this product failed the 19 month test and passed the 5 month test is to be expected! The product called STA-BIL FUEL STABLIZER promises to keep your fuel fresh for up to 24 months. They are two different products by the same manufacturer. Maybe STA-BIL products are not snake oil.
Taryl, surely your are aware that Startron when broken down is Start-RON as in Ronnie? Are you sure Ronnie didn't pull one over on you since it was the worst one?
Best "stabilizer" you can use, is full synthetic outboard 2 stroke oil. (Johnson, quicksilver, ect.)Little smoky on startup, but have not cleaned a carb on any equipment I own for over 6yrs, and I use plain old 87 with ethanol.
As you found out in the previous experiment the 93 octane E10 super unleaded branded which is the standard unleaded in the UK is causing more starting issues over here in the UK. Apparently after 30 days from the pump the 93-95 E10 fuel starts to deteriorate. Most likely its shorter shelf life is because it has to travel from abroad before it gets distributed to the pumps. We see no issues yet with the 5% E5 super unleaded 95-99 octane fuels which are the recommended fuels for vehicles and machines with carburettors.
Ambient conditions for the engines mounted in the center of the display table can definitely affect the outcome of the experiment. With that said it might be more or less gel from the ethanol. However the point of the experiment is to prove that there's no good countermeasure for ethanol laced fuel.
Had similar concerns particularly for the "corner" Engines. Might be exposed to more frequent extreme temps. For the extended testing the "center" Engines were Sta-bil 360 and VP Fuel (No Ethanol). At 19 months VP and Sta-Bil both Started and Ran Smooth. VP was still "clean" while 360 was showing signs of Degraded Fuel. Now to 360's credit we can see in the short-term (5 months) it is one of the "Good Ones" able to actually Stabilize the Fuel and keeping the Carb Bowl "clean". Also in its favor but I don't think mentioned in the short or long term testing is that unlike some of the others (and Sta-Bil's (Red) Storage which wasn't tested) that claim up to 24 months treatment... 360 only claims up to 12 months. So it'd have been informative had they, during the long term test done a "spot check" of all the Carb Bowls and if not outright "failed" any Fuel Additive that was showing (early?) signs of causing performance problems... But to "prove" that there was/is some products that do better then just E10 alone. Unfortunately for 360 that it wasn't able to maintain its Stabilization 7ish months past its claimed rating. But it probably helped give it an edge if it meant the degraded fuel was only a very recent concern... For the "average" user 360 might have met its claim and "cleaned up" after itself say the user put it back in service say 10 months after storage and ran it regularly for a few months... Would have been a CLEAR victory if say at 12 months VP and Sta-Bil 360 showed "clean" bowls while potentially many of the others (proven to be "failing" after only 5 months) some with claims of 24 month protection aren't in the same Class/Tier. Would have been interesting if at that point they'd have taken the "failing" (Gel/Rust) engines and attempted to "clean" them by running them either with a tank of the untreated (old) Gas Can E10, or more of the same Additive Fuel (as a Control) to see if after 1 or 2 tanks the Carb would look as good/clean as the VP. Those that failed both at "storage" and clean up (likely by leaving solid debris behind that eventually would cause eventual clogging) would deserve the "Snake Oil" label... While the others got a more detailed look. Was 360 the only 12 month Stabilizer? I'd have thought at the start of the Long Term Test that they'd have had issues with the untreated fuels before 12 months... Since they didn't I'm curious if 360 was just lucky and outperformed a few of the other "up to 12, up to 24 month" treatments...
More important than starting is the condition of the bowls at 5 months. That is more closer to going through winter on lawn equipment. Question is, if the gel is there, will nee fuel as it runs next season dissolve it or add to it? Lol. So many experiments when just draining your carb or using non ethanol works. Former for those that cant get non ethanol from a pump and latter for those who can lol Youve done so much and only people lookingnfor truth and nit confirmation will alpreciate the work you did.
Taryl it would be interesting to load test the old fuel to see if it has the same output. Maybe a generator under load or a pony brake to make a simple dyno
It doesnt attract water but it seems like it does, it stabilizes water longer than gasoline so while the gasoline seperates from the water and evaporates the ethanol is left behind with the water. Like the last one out turns off the lights and is left with the bill. i feel sorry for ethanol, if it wasnt there gasoline would gum up and be tacky flakey and dirty much quicker like it used to, then the carb would clog anyway. Either way a guy has to clean that carb often.
I have a craftsman 44" gt with a 20 hp Onan. In real good shape Im renewing. Can you tell me what is the gap. is for the Elect. PTO? I have a 18hp too, dam things are well made. Hope you can help. Thanks.
The Star Tron results match my experience. I usually always drain the tank on my snowblowers but my new Ariens holds a lot of fuel and we barely got snow the winter of 2020/2021. Big mistake as it started surging quite bad when I went to use it the following season. Normally I wrench on my own stuff but since it was a year old and still under warranty, I brought it in, and found out it had gummed up. Rec gas with Stabil for me now during the season, and back to always draining the tank in the off seasons.
I'm not surprised about the seafoam, that pretty much mirrors what another channel found. Fortnine did a fuel stabilizer test a while ago... I still use seafoam for cleaning purposes, but never fuel stabilization.
I run straight seafoam when I clean. Gonna try topping tyrals test. I have about 4 gallons of gas stored with stabil. Going to put it in my 127 and see if it held up.
Hi Taryl I love your channel so I have a question for you all the way from England. Could you tell me what is the fastest cutting walk behind lawnmower that has ever been available to the public. That would be without home modifications? I think this question is really hard even for a man of your high intellect. Keep making the videos please and I hope yourself and slippers can visit England sometime in the near future. That would be awesome. Take care my friend we love you here in good old blighty.
You might be onto something... Often my gas can has gas a month or 2 old before I put in the lawnmower. The gas left over the winter might be 9 months old... Or "Summer blend".
Hey i think i read seafoam was originally made for 2 cycle outboard motor boats, they still use the same formula. Just seems i read that somewhere. Not sure though.
My neighbor swears by Sea Foam. I have some but I've never been able to get myself to use it lol. Then again, my non mowing "season" is usually less than 3 months. Cha, sometimes less than 2 lol.
Great video. 5 months is a lifetime+1 for gas. I can't help but wonder how it even started with the gas at the point where it started gelling. I guess seeing is believing though.
What are you going to do with all those engines after the experiment is over? Maybe build some mowers or some other machines with them? Would be some interesting videos.
@@bushmaster2936 thank you genius! I wrote the comment in hopes the he might do something like that. Seriously can’t a guy make a comment without some dude living in their parents basement have some dumb reply?!? Get a life dude!
QUESTION :::Is letting an engine run out of gas hard on the engine? On my 1954 No.12 Diesel 8T Cat Motor Grader the pony motor runs on gas. It is common for the drown draft carb on the pony motor to siphon gas into the bottom washing out the bearings. The point is we turn off the gas and let the pony motor carb run out of gas.
Not on a 4 stroke carburetor engine. On a 2 stroke engine you run the risk of running the engine low on oil as the oil is mixed with gas ( I still run my 2 strokes dry for storage). On any EFI engine, it's not good to run dry as you will burn out the electric fuel pump which is lubricated by the fuel that runs through it.
Been doing that for 40 YEARS with no problems at all,on old tractors,welders, lawn mowers when you run it out of gas, your also leaving the CYLINDERS DRY, which helps it start easier the next go around! That's the best thing to do, turn the fuel supply off let it run out of gas,, DO NOT DO IT ON A Diesel,OR YOU WILL BE BLEEDING THE LINES NEXT TIME,,ONLY ON GASOLINE ENGINES,!
Just like the comment in here about 2 cycle storage, has anyone mentioned fogging oil? In the past, my lawn gear and marine engines got it right down the throat every storage time.
Just wait until the country switches over to using 15% ethanol which is going to happen pretty quick. There’s going to be lots of small engines that won’t start then. Time to buy some grass rats stock. Thanks Taryl and Ronnie for a very informative set of experiments.
They switched the UK standard unleaded to E10 93-95 octane last year and as Tayrl found out the similar grade of unleaded you have labeled as super unleaded is causing starting issues. Remember our fuel is shipped from abroad on a boat then distributed to the pumps and possibly in that time it is already degrading. They say there is only a 30 day shelf storage life of the E10 standard 93-95 unleaded once pumped from the pump.
Probably all the snake oil provides more alcohol. I think the alcohol absorbs water and evaporates. Leaving you with water and gas that doesn't mix. By adding alcohol it makes water and gas mix instead of separating.
I've been using regular Sta-Bil for decades. Just started my 14 year old Craftsman lawn tractor with no problem at all. I swear by that stuff. I use it in my push mower as well. The stuff WORKS. I think Taryl is a little too hard on some of that stuff. As you can see, some of those additives DID prevent gelling. My theory is after 5-6 months some of the products start to break down and become less effective. But they do work for at least 5-6 months.
I’ve used plain old Sta-Bil and 100% gas for decades. My 036 Stihl hasn’t even had a carb kit in it yet and still screams. Same for my Redmax and Shindiawa power equipment. Maybe the Sta-Bil didn’t have a positive impact on the 100% gas. I don’t know but I do know that I ain’t changing anything now. One jug of Sta-Bil lasts me about two years so it’s not like I’m spending hundreds of bucks on a useless product.
;TLDW
@12:29 - CONTROL - no fuel stabilizer (87 octane w/ 10% ethanol) - RESULT: gel forming
@14:08 - Lucas Safeguard Flex Fuel - RESULT: clean
@15:00 - K100 - RESULT: clean
@15:52 - PRI G - RESULT: clean
@16:43 - Sea Foam - RESULT: get forming and rust
@18:26 - Stens Shield - RESULT: small amount of rust
@19:26 - Ethanol Shield - RESULT: gel forming and rust
@20:58 - Sta-Bil 360 - RESULT: clean
@22:00 - Gas Guardian - RESULT: clean
@22:53 - Star Tron - RESULT: gel forming
@24:06 - Walbro - RESULT: clean
@25:58 - Marvel Mystery Oil - RESULT: small amount of gel forming
Thanks for the Summary Results. I'm going to have to rewatch again to see which of the "clean" additives also started quickly/ran smooth too.
Sad they didn't at least run extended/additional tests (or have they? Original Plan suggested a 10 month (total test) revisit) on the "new" additives that didn't Gel Up/Rust during the "Winter Storage" test. Given they "might" possibly perform better then the other samples that all were failed/failing after an extra 14 months.
Would be interested in seeing how the Walbro (Evergreen scented?) and Lucas products fair after extended storage (Maybe an "extreme" test with vented cans under poor weather/environment for 2-3 months? Might simulate a "forgetful" user that didn't properly seal a Gas Can or is using old fuel for treatment?)
Thanks for doing what Taryl SHOULD HAVE DONE. He should be pinning your comment at the top!
Excellent experiment. Thank you for sacrificing Ronnie's home for several months to help solve this mystery.
It's OK! Ronnie was in jail for most of it :-))))
Add fuel shut off valve’s and run them dry before storage. That’s the best treatment in my opinion.
Better, but not best. Draining tank also would be best so there is no fuel to go bad. Then you can store it for years
Yes, and I have been adding a bit of oil to the tank after I pull the gas out of it, before running it dry. The oil coats the inside of the carb.
I leave the fuel with a stabilizer in the tank. I just shut the valve and run dry. The gas has always been fine after winter here in Minnesota.
If I stored it for years I’d run them dry.
a dry carb can build scale which can also clog a carburetor
Been doing that for years, everything except the generator that one I empty the whole fuel system
Well like they say, all good things must come to an end! Thanks Teryl for your dedication to this project. Now you can concentrate on more Service Bulletin Classics! 😁👍
Have to say this is the top experimental design I’ve seen to date with fuel stabilizers. Not because it’s a white-coat lab deal, but because it’s total real world. Even I can make sense of this. Thank you, you’ve settled my product choice.
I think non ethanol fuel and Sta Bil Storage will continue to be my go to fuel plan.
I enjoyed this journey. I did a similar test back in the ‘90s and into the 2000s. Ended up with close to the same results. Later on in 2015 I tried the test again with newer equipment and newer products. In my tests then, SeaFoam and Mechanic In A Bottle were the absolute worst. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve had someone argue with me over the best fuel stabilizers in the last 30 plus years, I wouldn’t have to turn wrenches anymore. Non ethanol fuel is the best fuel treatment.
I’ll just stick with non ethanol fuel with no additives, I’ve never had carburetor problems on any of my equipment. I’ve got equipment that’s 5 years old and it sits with a full tank after every use. Store them in winter all completely full of fuel that way you don’t get condensation in the tank
Yup same here .. I pay .50 more a gallon never had any probs ... unless it’s a Nikki carb I throw that in the garbage
Some of us aren’t lucky enough live where that’s available….
@@notajp Ethanol gas is a disaster in so many ways. First of all it actually puts more carbon in the atmosphere than the alternative. You need to tell your representatives to stop it
Yes sir. My experience is the same. I try not to store fuel over the winter, use it up or transfer it to a gas vehicle.
can't find ethanol free fuel here. maybe it'll get better when they add more ethanol to the fuel.
my gas will look like jelly within 3 months.
Very interesting video especially when you took the bowls off. Great reference when choosing a fuel stabilizer. Thanks Taryl for my dinner.
I haven’t purchased a new mower in a while, but the owner’s manual for all of my Toro equipment whether it be a mower or snowblower have all stated to drain the tank and run the engine out of fuel before storage.
I have followed this procedure and the only carburetor issues I have experienced have been dirt or wear related issues.
Thanks for the fuel tests Taryl, it was interesting to see the results of leaving fuel in equipment through the seasons.
A summary chart like Project Farm uses would have been icing on the cake.
Rewind the video
I like the bowl nut design because it's simple to clean with welding tip wire - I had that on my toro lawnmower (owned for over 25 years) and had to clean it 4 times
Or you can get another bowel jet nut and rotate them after cleaning !
This was a great experiment to see in real time.
It's great to see Ron in more videos. 👌
Hi Ron.
Having watched the video about sandblasting the float bowls, I can't help but get a big smile when you come back to the topis. 😆
Happy Easter Taryl!!!!👋🏼🇺🇸 🐣
I'm so fortunate to have non-ethanol fuel available in my little town. Very informative series. Thanks!
Can only add my 2 cents, I've been using Sta -bil for 30+ years the Marine and now the 360 in all my equipment and muscle cars for storage over the winter with never a problem and that's with 10% fuel. But I never push it over 5 months draining it out and refilling if need be and some equipment like the snowblowers and leaf vacs I store with tanks full and don't drain plus I use it year round.
Received my order from your online store of the small licenses plate and the HV350 glue, Thank You and Thank you for the free sticker. First time placing an order long time fan.
Brillant work gentlemen. I use that term loosely, Ronnie. I agree with your findings. And all of them after about nine months are going varnishey quick. So that “up to 2 years” claim on most of them, is well, snake oily. The keywords that protect their claim are “up to”. You can smell the difference also, when its going sour. Correct in also stating the alkali fuels are best for storage and protecting the rubber and plastic. I dont think theres as much power from those those fuels, haven’t tested that myself, but have been advised that. I dont think in lower horsepower engines thats a big deal, but in higher ones you might not be getting “all of it”, like the feller going by in the begging of the video. Lol so another thing to consider is since ethanol and methanol are alcohols, modern gasoline is full of water right from the pump. They claim the O2 in alcohol is to help the catalytic converters, but i think it was before alcohols in fuel, water would sit in the storage tanks at ports and have be accounted for in the selling price, and have to be purged from the tanks every so often. Now all of that extra volume from humidity/condensation can be sold as gasoline and “up to” a third more in profit. Free money for the oil companies. You can take raw fuel from a pump, put it in a jar, and reverse the process. And then see how much of your gasoline was actually water. Im sure theres a proper youtube video for it. Again thanks for your great video and solid scientific advice. Mahalo! 🤙🏼😎🌴🌋👍🏼
👍 Happy resurrection day taryl & crew
Taryl needs to start preparing for his trip to Oslo to accept his Nobel Prize for Science.
Great job on this one guys... The whole series was really good....
I know you were having a little fun there, calling them all snake oil, but some did seem to work for the 5-6 months.....
I admire the dedication, to stick with this test, and really do it, for such a long term. Very well done.
My thoughts exactly, great test overall, but some do seem to help for the half a year test. None of my stuff sits more than that, and if it does, I drain the carbs, and keep the tanks full but cycle the fuel every now and then.
That being said, I wish E0 was available closer to home, it’s the way to go with a small engines.
Many thanks to you Taryl and crew for this experiment!
Aspen is the best - nice products made here in Sweden. Use it for all my equipment - has a due date of 2 years so it starts all the time. Cheers!
It's a popular non ethanol Alkalyte fuel in the UK as well and is getting more popular everyday due to customers getting fed up with starting issues with equipment.
I wonder if the "fuel stabilizer" claims of the older brands, such as Seafoam or MMO, were that they kept the classic non ethanol type gas fresh? Those formulas would have pre-dated the modern ethanol fuels most likely right? Remember there was a time when we stored nothing but non ethanol regular gas and I'd guess they're not made to do anything special with ethanol. Remember how it would turn into that varnishy smelling stuff after a while and fuel stabilizer was supposed to keep it fresh longer?
Would be interesting to see non ethanol gas with stabilizer in it and see how long it lasts.
MMO is not a stabilizer. It is a "extra" lubricant...
Teryl has videos with nonethanol pump fuel gas 🎵 that you could search. I'd bet (but could definitely be wrong) that companies that produced additives preethanol have updated their formula for ethanol.
Hey Taryl, the wood you built that engine stand out of, is worth more than the engines combined!
This one didn't get listed in the playlist. Very good test series, I loved it.
What fuel treatment do you recommend
One thing I couldn't help but notice is that the rust was shown on those that are near the outside opening. Maybe this is why there was rust on the bowls there? Love what you do!
Interesting test, start to finish.. personally I drain carbs on anything I can. The lawn tractors I fill with fresh gas and Stabil at beginning of storage then make sure to run then for a good 20 minutes every couple months during the winter and early spring. There’s your dinner!
Ive left weed eaters for 1 year and start fine. I think the 2 stroke oil mixed in helps preserve the gas. And in New Zealand we don't use ethanol in general
Mmo isn't meant to be a fuel stabilizer. It's for lubing and cleaning.
Exactly !!!!! Should not be included in the test !!
He should have noted that there were no big globs of gel, because the MMO was doing its job and breaking down the gel.
All of my small engines which are all from the early 90’s have always been drained of fuel at the end of the season and none of them have ever has their carbs rebuilt, they start up like new every new season, so I agree with Taryl that them additives are just snake oil. Drain your fuel every season and we have access to non ethanol fuel where we live and that is what we use. Thanks for sharing the video.
What about your tank rusting?
That is the way to go.
I drain my Honda sno blower in the Spring. Put some Mystery oil in the cylinder.
Spray the empty gas tank with WD-40.
In the fall, I fill her up with premium non-eth and fire her up...
15 years and she runs like new !!
@@peteosinga8845 - all my tanks are plastic but we live in a very high humidity place during the summer and I have never had a moisture problem in my tanks
I use E0 high test gas in my OPE. No problems at all. I sometimes add a small dose of 2 cycle oil to the 2 gallons of gas but that's hit or miss, so no difference over winter.
19:42 It would be interesting to see how the Ethanol Shield would have performed if it was mixed properly. In the previous video in this series he mixed the treatment for this video at 1/2 oz per gallon when the bottle he was holding and pointed at said 1 oz per gallon for “storage”. Can we expect manufacturers claims to be accurate if we don’t mix the product to their specifications?
Fuel shut off and run dry. That's been working fine for me in my snowblower and garden tractor for years. I haven't even drained the fuel tanks. After seeing here that Seafoam isn't that great i am sorry i bought 2 or 3 cans when it was on sale. Some fresh fuel added to the tanks is all i have done when i put them back to use. Have always used some type of stabilizer. No problems. My Toro snowblower is from the late 1970's and has the original Tecumseh engine on it. I'm the second owner.
Great test Taryl !!!!
I was GLUED to the screen !!!!
Never knew about these small Subaru mills. What do they go on??
It would’ve interesting to test gas from different gas stations. Each gas station chain uses different additives that may or may not have an effect on ethanol buildup. Some busier gas stations like the ones along a highway or rest stop might have their storage fuel tanks filled more frequently so the gas is always fresh(?). I think it’s worth testing. Shell, Sunoco, BP, Chevron, Mobil, Sheetz, WaWa, Exxon, and Citgo just to name a few. I know there’s no way to test every single gas station brand but at least test the popular ones that are most common across the country or your area.
the bp's Indiana whiting plant refinery " can produce enough gasoline each day to support the average daily travel of more than 7 million cars" ; the question is , that same gasoline produced is it delivered to the different gzs stations in the area and beyond
Taryl needs a mustie1 coffee mug to drain carbs bowls into
I have added a body hammer and a white coffee cup to my garage work bench
This reminds me. I need to pick up some non-ethanol fuel today.
We call that gel “the grey goo” back in the day when ethanol was introduced to gas all the service stations were required/recommended to have they’re tanks pumped
out in order to receive the new gas.
Well one station (owned by cheap skates) decided not to. In my state up to 3” of water was allowed by law in the bottom of tanks, I delivered the first truckload of gas to this station and within a day the station was shutdown. All that ethanol had separated and the grey goo plugged up all the filters and became a gelatinous slime ball inside the in ground tank. Needless to say the removal process cost a lot of $$$$, but hey it was self inflicted the owners were cheap skates and very wealthy so hitting them in the pocket book was the only way they would learn.
Wow , thats crazy . Here in Calif . I worked for one of the majors and we never had any problems like that . Maybe something else like all that water stirred up when you unloaded cause it ? Who knows ?
So, because the straight 87 octane jelled, we rule out that the jelling was caused by the additives breaking down.
The mechanics at our local marina tell me that ethanol causes no end of fuel system problems for them. Fortunately the marina sells non ethanol gas and I have no problem. The tests by TD have been really interesting and useful. I think it's a ripoff that some of these products caused more damage than doing nothing, such as the gelled gunk in the carb bowl. My sense is that if you can use non ethanol gas in your power equipment, then drain tank and carb for storage, you should be ok. Also, I mix one ounce of Gumout in the gas I use for power equipment to help keep the carb clean. Never had a carb problem.
All good things must come to an end....Running them dry and/or the engineered fuels is your best bet
You used STA-BIL 360 PROTECTION in this video and also the previous video series that ran over a 19 month period. When I read the add for this product it promises to keep your fuel fresh for only 12 months. So the fact this product failed the 19 month test and passed the 5 month test is to be expected! The product called STA-BIL FUEL STABLIZER promises to keep your fuel fresh for up to 24 months. They are two different products by the same manufacturer. Maybe STA-BIL products are not snake oil.
Taryl, surely your are aware that Startron when broken down is Start-RON as in Ronnie? Are you sure Ronnie didn't pull one over on you since it was the worst one?
Best "stabilizer" you can use, is full synthetic outboard 2 stroke oil. (Johnson, quicksilver, ect.)Little smoky on startup, but have not cleaned a carb on any equipment I own for over 6yrs, and I use plain old 87 with ethanol.
As you found out in the previous experiment the 93 octane E10 super unleaded branded which is the standard unleaded in the UK is causing more starting issues over here in the UK. Apparently after 30 days from the pump the 93-95 E10 fuel starts to deteriorate. Most likely its shorter shelf life is because it has to travel from abroad before it gets distributed to the pumps. We see no issues yet with the 5% E5 super unleaded 95-99 octane fuels which are the recommended fuels for vehicles and machines with carburettors.
Clean as a whistle
That saying is in reference to a steam whistle on an old time locomotive
I'm up in southwest lower Michigan not too far from the shop. How much for one of the engines? I'll come pick it up.
Ambient conditions for the engines mounted in the center of the display table can definitely affect the outcome of the experiment.
With that said it might be more or less gel from the ethanol. However the point of the experiment is to prove that there's no good countermeasure for ethanol laced fuel.
Takes longer for temperature changes humidity levels moisturizer ECT. To reach the engines in the center of building
Had similar concerns particularly for the "corner" Engines. Might be exposed to more frequent extreme temps.
For the extended testing the "center" Engines were Sta-bil 360 and VP Fuel (No Ethanol). At 19 months VP and Sta-Bil both Started and Ran Smooth. VP was still "clean" while 360 was showing signs of Degraded Fuel.
Now to 360's credit we can see in the short-term (5 months) it is one of the "Good Ones" able to actually Stabilize the Fuel and keeping the Carb Bowl "clean".
Also in its favor but I don't think mentioned in the short or long term testing is that unlike some of the others (and Sta-Bil's (Red) Storage which wasn't tested) that claim up to 24 months treatment... 360 only claims up to 12 months. So it'd have been informative had they, during the long term test done a "spot check" of all the Carb Bowls and if not outright "failed" any Fuel Additive that was showing (early?) signs of causing performance problems... But to "prove" that there was/is some products that do better then just E10 alone. Unfortunately for 360 that it wasn't able to maintain its Stabilization 7ish months past its claimed rating. But it probably helped give it an edge if it meant the degraded fuel was only a very recent concern... For the "average" user 360 might have met its claim and "cleaned up" after itself say the user put it back in service say 10 months after storage and ran it regularly for a few months...
Would have been a CLEAR victory if say at 12 months VP and Sta-Bil 360 showed "clean" bowls while potentially many of the others (proven to be "failing" after only 5 months) some with claims of 24 month protection aren't in the same Class/Tier.
Would have been interesting if at that point they'd have taken the "failing" (Gel/Rust) engines and attempted to "clean" them by running them either with a tank of the untreated (old) Gas Can E10, or more of the same Additive Fuel (as a Control) to see if after 1 or 2 tanks the Carb would look as good/clean as the VP.
Those that failed both at "storage" and clean up (likely by leaving solid debris behind that eventually would cause eventual clogging) would deserve the "Snake Oil" label... While the others got a more detailed look. Was 360 the only 12 month Stabilizer? I'd have thought at the start of the Long Term Test that they'd have had issues with the untreated fuels before 12 months... Since they didn't I'm curious if 360 was just lucky and outperformed a few of the other "up to 12, up to 24 month" treatments...
Great job! Nothing like a real world test that gets to the bottom of this terrible problem. I’ve always used Marvel and had good results.
Have u had the gel analyzed? I believe it is sugar/starch
I love these videos, thanks
Thanks! Gordonsville, Virginia
More important than starting is the condition of the bowls at 5 months. That is more closer to going through winter on lawn equipment.
Question is, if the gel is there, will nee fuel as it runs next season dissolve it or add to it? Lol.
So many experiments when just draining your carb or using non ethanol works. Former for those that cant get non ethanol from a pump and latter for those who can lol
Youve done so much and only people lookingnfor truth and nit confirmation will alpreciate the work you did.
Great info guys Thanks for sharing 👍🏻
Taryl it would be interesting to load test the old fuel to see if it has the same output.
Maybe a generator under load or a pony brake to make a simple dyno
Ethanol eats everything . It also attracts water . The pump says up to 10% alcohol may contain less at times . This makes a difference .
It doesnt attract water but it seems like it does, it stabilizes water longer than gasoline so while the gasoline seperates from the water and evaporates the ethanol is left behind with the water. Like the last one out turns off the lights and is left with the bill. i feel sorry for ethanol, if it wasnt there gasoline would gum up and be tacky flakey and dirty much quicker like it used to, then the carb would clog anyway. Either way a guy has to clean that carb often.
I have a craftsman 44" gt with a 20 hp Onan. In real good shape Im renewing.
Can you tell me what is the gap. is for the Elect. PTO?
I have a 18hp too, dam things are well made.
Hope you can help. Thanks.
I love that ball shaped air tank in the lower right in the very beginning of the video.
Well after all that experimentation. I'm going to add fuel shut offs and run equipment dry whenever I can.
The Star Tron results match my experience. I usually always drain the tank on my snowblowers but my new Ariens holds a lot of fuel and we barely got snow the winter of 2020/2021. Big mistake as it started surging quite bad when I went to use it the following season. Normally I wrench on my own stuff but since it was a year old and still under warranty, I brought it in, and found out it had gummed up. Rec gas with Stabil for me now during the season, and back to always draining the tank in the off seasons.
The question is, is Taryl Sta-bil. 😂
Taryl, we have non-ethanol fuel available here and i have started using it in all my gas powered (4 stroke) engines. Will this fuel last longer?
Infound it!!! Wasnt added to the playlist lol
Hey Taryl, How about letting them sit over the summer and try starting them in the fall? I bet the heat will gum up them carbs.
He already did a 19 month experiment before this. You can go back and watch them all if you want.
I cant believe how long it took me to realize that these guys r being comedians.
I'm not surprised about the seafoam, that pretty much mirrors what another channel found. Fortnine did a fuel stabilizer test a while ago... I still use seafoam for cleaning purposes, but never fuel stabilization.
"I still use seafoam for cleaning purposes, but never fuel stabilization". Same here.
I run straight seafoam when I clean. Gonna try topping tyrals test. I have about 4 gallons of gas stored with stabil. Going to put it in my 127 and see if it held up.
I know it's over 10 years old.
Runs like a champ
I run stabilizer and mix it properly, no problems. Down south here with our humidity and bad gas it sours fast.
Hi Taryl I love your channel so I have a question for you all the way from England. Could you tell me what is the fastest cutting walk behind lawnmower that has ever been available to the public.
That would be without home modifications? I think this question is really hard even for a man of your high intellect. Keep making the videos please and I hope yourself and slippers can visit England sometime in the near future. That would be awesome. Take care my friend we love you here in good old blighty.
I'm a firm believer in marvel mystery oil I've used it for years in everything I got
tyrel should i drain the gas tank and carb on my lawnmowers and generator for the winter
Thanks a lot of this series. Been very educational.
Great infor for lawn equipment. But people leaving generators filled should pay attention .....
Lol so many times here! Gas conservatorship really got me! Keep it coming guys.
I wonder if the seasonal blends of gas would skew the results some. These started a lot easier, and fuel degradation was different.
You might be onto something... Often my gas can has gas a month or 2 old before I put in the lawnmower. The gas left over the winter might be 9 months old... Or "Summer blend".
I'm very disappointed in seafoam. But very interesting video. Thanks Taryl and keep up the good work and stay safe
Hey i think i read seafoam was originally made for 2 cycle outboard motor boats, they still use the same formula.
Just seems i read that somewhere. Not sure though.
Good call Ronnie remind me of my dad’s old friend Joe Ronald Cassini LOL
My neighbor swears by Sea Foam. I have some but I've never been able to get myself to use it lol. Then again, my non mowing "season" is usually less than 3 months. Cha, sometimes less than 2 lol.
Great video. 5 months is a lifetime+1 for gas. I can't help but wonder how it even started with the gas at the point where it started gelling. I guess seeing is believing though.
Thank you!
What are you going to do with all those engines after the experiment is over? Maybe build some mowers or some other machines with them? Would be some interesting videos.
@@bushmaster2936 thank you genius! I wrote the comment in hopes the he might do something like that. Seriously can’t a guy make a comment without some dude living in their parents basement have some dumb reply?!? Get a life dude!
Just a question could the additive be bonding to the water and making the gel ??
Yay!! Sta-Bil 360!!!
I work in a hospital saving lifes. I wish I was helping Taryl and helping him so I could learn this stuff! Ah the smell of gasoline in the morning!
QUESTION :::Is letting an engine run out of gas hard on the engine?
On my 1954 No.12 Diesel 8T Cat Motor Grader the pony motor runs on gas. It is common for the drown draft carb on the pony motor to siphon gas into the bottom washing out the bearings. The point is we turn off the gas and let the pony motor carb run out of gas.
Not on a 4 stroke carburetor engine. On a 2 stroke engine you run the risk of running the engine low on oil as the oil is mixed with gas ( I still run my 2 strokes dry for storage). On any EFI engine, it's not good to run dry as you will burn out the electric fuel pump which is lubricated by the fuel that runs through it.
Been doing that for 40 YEARS with no problems at all,on old tractors,welders, lawn mowers when you run it out of gas, your also leaving the CYLINDERS DRY, which helps it start easier the next go around! That's the best thing to do, turn the fuel supply off let it run out of gas,, DO NOT DO IT ON A Diesel,OR YOU WILL BE BLEEDING THE LINES NEXT TIME,,ONLY ON GASOLINE ENGINES,!
Did I miss it ?? How did PRI-G hold up ?
Just like the comment in here about 2 cycle storage, has anyone mentioned fogging oil? In the past, my lawn gear and marine engines got it right down the throat every storage time.
Good test guys!
Ronnie reminds me of my friend Darryl. We called him “Poison Jivy”. Poison for short.
RIP Darryl, miss ya bro.
Any water removal from gas opinions,, does Mr funnel work ?
Great video
Just wait until the country switches over to using 15% ethanol which is going to happen pretty quick. There’s going to be lots of small engines that won’t start then. Time to buy some grass rats stock. Thanks Taryl and Ronnie for a very informative set of experiments.
They switched the UK standard unleaded to E10 93-95 octane last year and as Tayrl found out the similar grade of unleaded you have labeled as super unleaded is causing starting issues. Remember our fuel is shipped from abroad on a boat then distributed to the pumps and possibly in that time it is already degrading. They say there is only a 30 day shelf storage life of the E10 standard 93-95 unleaded once pumped from the pump.
Probably all the snake oil provides more alcohol. I think the alcohol absorbs water and evaporates. Leaving you with water and gas that doesn't mix. By adding alcohol it makes water and gas mix instead of separating.
I've been using regular Sta-Bil for decades. Just started my 14 year old Craftsman lawn tractor with no problem at all. I swear by that stuff. I use it in my push mower as well. The stuff WORKS.
I think Taryl is a little too hard on some of that stuff. As you can see, some of those additives DID prevent gelling. My theory is after 5-6 months some of the products start to break down and become less effective. But they do work for at least 5-6 months.
I’ve used plain old Sta-Bil and 100% gas for decades. My 036 Stihl hasn’t even had a carb kit in it yet and still screams. Same for my Redmax and Shindiawa power equipment. Maybe the Sta-Bil didn’t have a positive impact on the 100% gas. I don’t know but I do know that I ain’t changing anything now. One jug of Sta-Bil lasts me about two years so it’s not like I’m spending hundreds of bucks on a useless product.
the ones that started quickest are because the additive prevented the water and ethanol mix in the bottom of the float to be non combustible.
Love the wall bro 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Me too. Keep up the good work Taryl!