We have 10 year data on old “S” models & Tesla published it. It was 12% degraded after 300,000 miles in 10 years. This is great outcome. The LFP battery of the recent model 3 & Y should be even better !
My M3 2021 SR+ with NMC battery after 40000km lost 11% so what got better ? And I'm avoiding DC charging as much as possible charging on AC 4:1 at least!
@@jozefroman2110you may have a cell that's bad and it's pulling the entire pack down. If the degradation continues it looks like you will get that fixed on warranty.
I have a late 2021 LFP Model 3 that came with 252 miles of range brand new. After 50,000 miles driven it now estimates 238 miles at 100%, for a rough degradation loss of around 5% (assuming the range estimate is accurate). Not too shabby. I always Level 2 charge around 15 Amps and normally go down to low percentages between charges, while also hitting 100% once per week as recommended by Tesla, and Supercharge a few times a year for road trips. However I've recently learned that it is better for the life of the batteries to not always be "deep charged" from 0-100%, but rather short slow charges to minimize degradation. So now I just plug in every day and let the car slowly crawl up back to just enough to make it above where I left off percent-wise yesterday (until the end of the week when I charge to 100% again).
This is an underrated point. Almost every EV owner I know seems to think discharging the battery to almost empty is ok. I think it’s a carry over habit from the way people refuel their gas cars. The manual also states to “leave the car plugged in when not in use” in capital letters too. IE: charge it as often as you can.
I have a 2021 model 3 sr+ with almost 78k miles and my max range is 237 with the LFP battery. I plug in every evening when I'm done driving for the day and charge at 28A to 100%. It's been good to me no major issues. I was a truck guy and do miss being in a truck but the cost to own my model 3 is hard to beat. Hopefully it lasts me 500k miles lol
@@jacobdaniel5184 What do you think of the Silverado EV coming out? JerryRigEverything pushed it to a real world range of 460 miles. I have a 21 model 3 sr+ as well. Only hesitation with other EVs is the charging network
Would have to have a larger volume to accomodate for the extra cells since LFP has lower energy density so it won't happen because Tesla would have to redesign the entire car around it.
I thought I wanted a long range too but the regular range has been plenty for us. We spent the day shopping and then drove to Northern Minnesota and back still had 22% charge left. Neighbors with them say they only use the TESLA DUPERCHARGER SITES every other year or so.
MY brand new model Y regular range has LFP BATTERIES AND THEY ARE FINE! A full day of shopping then a trip to Northern Minnesota and back left us with 22% charge left. Typically you don’t charge on the road for more than 10-15 minutes at a time. That’s when you get the fastest charge and the longest range for the least amount of time. A trick you learn watching cross country EV racers. On U tube. Nobody puts a full charge because the last 20-30% takes the longest amount of time.
I regularly charge my 2022 Model Y RWD with LFP battery to 100% and have 2.4% degradation according to the Tessie app after about 15 months and 26k km of ownership. I drive mostly on the freeway at around 110km per hour and have a daily commute of about 50km one way.
I have a 2022 M3LR (NMC/A Batt) and a 2022 M3RWD (LFP Batt), both made in China. The LR has covered 38,000 Km with exactly 5% degradation. The RWD has covered 75,000 Km with 4.2% degradation. (data out of Tessie App) The LR 99% 7Kw charging (32amp single phase) to 80% capacity and the RWD 70% supercharging to 100% capacity. The LFP battery durability so far has really impressed me with a similar driving range to the NMC/A battery @ 80% capacity. Whadyaknow Elon was right! If it wasn't for the ocassional road trip I would take the LFP M3 on a cost / hassle per km basis everytime.
My 2022 M3 Standard is already at 258 miles at full charge after only 29,800 miles. You have put 4 times that many miles with same range loss! I hope my battery pack is not a lemon.
@@abnerrivera3986 The car has 159k now with 257 Mi. I got 284 miles the other day. Range seems to be more age related than milage. I've seen other 2022's with 1/3rd the miles with the same range. They say the LFP should flatten out around the two year mark. We'll see.
@@abnerrivera3986 I don't think it's a lemon. Now that I think about it... The range fell from 264 to 258 quickly as it approached 2 years old. After turning 2, It's only lost 1 mile over the last 5 months and 27k miles. It does seem to slow down. We'll see what it's like on its third birthday.
@@dustinkarrick7819 Interesting, I hope that is the case with mine as well. Only time will tell. I do love driving the M3 though, used to have a 2018 Nissan LEAF, and even though it was a great car, the technology and the power of the M3 is just awesome.
2022 M3 RWD (LFP) 21K miles in 18 months. Range is now 261 miles (down from 272 which is ~4% range loss). Typically L2 charge to 100% at least 1x/week when down to 20% or before longer drives. SuperCharge 22% overall - but only on road trips - typically from 5-10% up to 70%. On 2nd MidWest winter, and need new tires soon. I wonder if the very cold temps have an effect on battery degradation.
2023 model 3 RWD with 12k miles living in Las Vegas. 100% charge at 260mi down from 273mi new. I charge to 80-90% once a week ish with 100% once a week. I lost miles immediately when I bought it charging to 100% every time so I tried the other way. Clearly it’s not working either. If this trend keeps up I’ll be using the warranty.
I sold my 2018 Model 3 Long Range, which my wife had reserved in June of last year, to purchase a Rivian. At the time of sale, it had around 61,000 miles on it. I remember that when I first received the car, it showed a range of almost 320 to 325 miles on a full charge. However, when I sold it, it was showing around 280 miles of range at 100% charge. I didn't use the supercharger much after buying the car, maybe about three times, and I typically charged it to 70% daily, with occasional 100% charges for long-distance trips, about two or three times a month. I've heard people say that the battery now is different from the one I had back then, but I'm not sure about the differences. Nonetheless, I don't think the decrease in range that I experienced is too bad, considering my usage
Boy, that's good to know...my 2018 ICE vehicle has an average range of 350 miles on a full tank and after five years my range for a full tank of gas averages 350 miles. On the highway, my range goes up to over 400 miles at 85 mph. Every time I drive it I'm helping plants grow. I can't imagine paying that much money for something that ugly. The Cybercoffin makes me think the Tesla design dept. is populated by mentally challenged vision and physically impaired individuals.
Tesla didnt start using lfp batteries until 2021 . We got a long time before high mielage data can be collected on lfp batteries . But the technology seems very promising
It is worth noting that the range estimate fluctuate a lot of the LFP. One week it said 257 Miles of range on my M3 RWD, I was in slight shock but crossed fingers that it was a unbalanced battery issue with the LFP. This week it shows 265 Miles. So depending on the battery balancing, it will show different range estimates. Since I rarely ever charge the car to 100%, it is possible that the BMS doesn't know the state of each individual battery unless it is charged to 100% once in a while. Also want to note that the car is now completely drained at 0%, I had to get the car tow to nearest supercharger 2.5 miles away. In a couple other instances I had 5 Miles left after hitting 0%, but not anymore. I'm certain that this is due to new software updates. In other words: 0% means 0%.
I believe in recent updates, 0% now means 0% battery left. I had to pull over within 5seconds of hitting 0% Note that you have to jump the 12v battery for 20seconds to turn on computer to accept supercharge. But no stress non-the less. It is better to get a tow on a car with 1% battery since you will be able to put car in neutral and roll the rear tires without having to use dollies on the rear tires. Flatbed is a bit faster way to get car towed.
That is exactly why they recommend you charge to 100% once per week to make sure the BMS is correctly calibrated. It can "forget" how much capacity it has and is only accurate between 95% and 5% I've heard due to how the voltage of the LFP pack works.
@@Dubitz That's a good point to remember and apply. I don't like getting to far below 10% and every estimate that leaves me with 5% or less on a trip is "gulp" not confidence inspiring. I had to get down to 1% once and was sweating. I'm also afraid of the "damage" that may do but I understand in theory it can be actually good but how one goes about that in a good way I'm not sure. We all have different needs and I understand why one may end up letting it get to zero or close to that often. Hopefully it all keeps working. Best
I have Model 3LFP. Purchased June 2023. Has 47,000 miles on it today. Uber driving about 1800 miles per week. Charge 67% level 2 at home and 33% super charging. Charge to 100% at home daily. As far as I can tell, no degradation yet. But I'm not an expert. I'd never buy anything but an LFP battery EV when driving Uber full time. You'll destroy an NCM battery way too fast. I expect my battery to last 500,000 miles. FYI, at full charge the car still shows 272 miles of range.
@@BobbieGWhiz I agree. I've got no way to do any official test and I never did any test when I first bought it. But most people just say what the car lists as available mileage when fully charged.
@@jeremyrom It's at 75,000 miles now. I think it shows 265. But nothing that I've noticed in loss of range. I'm sure a technical analysis would confirm, but it's way too little loss to notice in actual life use. My goal was to get to 80k in the first year, but I might miss that by a bit. Only two weeks left to get 5k more miles, and that's not going to happen with my June schedule.
My 1-year old Model 3 RWD has 7.2k miles on it now when fully charged has 262 miles range. It showed 273 miles range when new. I regularly charge it to 100% once a week.
I'm wondering how much of the initial "degradation" is due to calibration of estimating range to one's real world experience? Meaning it's calculating what you specifically will get with the routes, charging habits etc you literally put this specific car through vs it actually having any real loss over the first few thousand miles. I think from ~5k to 50k miles will be a better reflection of any actual degradation imho. So say you get 268 consistently from 2k on... then the car gets say 261 at the 50k mark, that would be the accurate degradation for your vehicle at 2.6%. It would be considered 4.3% from 0 miles but I think one needs to give the car actual miles to give the BMS the data to calculate range more accurately and no one is going to have consistently ideal enough conditions to get the max say 273 miles. I don't have data to confirm or negate this but it's something to consider.
2022 model 3 rwd at 25k miles. Currently showing 261 miles range. Level 2 charging at 20 amps at work. Only reaching 100% once per week and occasionally twice per week.
LFP is used for solar instalations, where are charged to 100% almost everyday, LFP bateries should last over 6000 cycles when used between 100% - 10%. Also this batteries need time to balance the cells, if you never give time the battery at 100% it wont balance and loose some capacity. The good thing is that this is fixed by leaving some hours charging after hitting 100%
Have owned original China made 09/21 model 3 53.5Kw LFP battery that has done 99,000 Km and has 4.8% degradation. I did charge to 100% in the first 9 months but now only charge to 100% when I need more than the daily 80% level charge.
I have slightly different experience with my 2021 LFP M3. I have charged my car once per week to 100% at home with 11kWh Tesla charger. The degradation after 55000 km is around 5% from 420 km to 401 km of nominal range. But it is also important to check capacity at the start and still available after that 55000 km. It that case, based on the readings from the application I have, degradation is 7.2% (a drop from 55 kWh to 51 kWh still available in the battery pack). Interesting, right? Once per year I do 2500 km trip. I have noticed those supercharger sessions brought the biggest impact on the nominal range drop. The drop stabilized over the last couple of months so that degradation trend discussed also in your video seems to be confirmed: the biggest drop will happen up to 50000 km and then will be slow. However, I am afraid that additional supercharging sessions on the long trips will cause additional degradation of my LFP battery. I keep you posted. If this is indeed confirmed then the charging power also needs to be taken into account when evaluating degradation characteristic of LFP battery.
My 2022 MY MIC with LFP has now done 45,000km in 15 mths and started out at 435km FC and is now 421km FC (-3.2%). Home charging ~65% on 240V 10amp Tesla SC 5% Other ~30% mostly 50KW If anything, I haven't charged to 100% every week, but plan to do so in future. I recall Elon suggesting a few times that LFP likes to be charged to 100%! Will be interesting to see if that degradation rate settles.
In my opinion this is not true. One month I forgot to charge to 100% end my nominal range drop to 418km (when new 439km) It was a few days before long trip with a few charging at Tesla SuC station. After this trip my nominal range incrise to 433km. So, I think that fast charging is no such bad (from time to time) 🙂
LFP type have to work very well with the BMS to give you correct estimates. LFP battery voltage range is very tight and low, making it problematic for BMS to correctly estimate kWh/ah in your battery. 100% charge to teach BMS what's the cap
Bought my 2023 M3 with LFP last year. According to Tessie, I have 4.4% degradation at 26k miles. I charge to 100% between 1 to 3 times a week on level 2 chargers. If I miss charging session at work then sometimes Ill supercharge to 100%.
The model 3 lfp packs are Catl sourced prismatic cells where the model Y made in Europe has the byd blade battery. Unsure of where the lfp cells come from in US made model Y. Blade batteries charge much better than prismatic ones used.
2022 RWD M3 17,292 miles. LFP Battery. 273 miles new. Now 258 at 18 months of ownership. I live in North Florida. Car is always garaged on level 2 charger set to 100%. Very few times on super charger. 5.5% loss.
My model y rwd LFP CATL SHANGHAI, it has reached 60.000 km and exactly 2 years now when it’s changed at 100% it shows 403 km when was new it was showing 418 km when fully charged.
Taking delivery in a week. Test drove a 2024 model 3 AWD yesterday. Glad we ordered the RWD version. I felt the extra weight of the larger battery and it didn't feel right with what felt like too much weight and hp for the suspension to handle. It's a superb EV with a soft suspension. It's not a genuine high speed sports car. The lighter car will be better balanced IMO.
Model 3 standard range 2021 LFP battery, now at 86,400 km (54,000 miles). In the 1st year I have been charging to 95% and once a week to 100% then per Tesla's recommendation I moved to daily charge to 100%. I experience quite a degradation in computed range from 424km to 398km (that's 6.13% decrease)
I have a 23 China built Model Y RWD with 12 months driving for 14000Km. My range droped from 435Km to 420Km when i fully charge. I use wall connector to charge it at home all the time and fully charge it 100% once or twice per week. I have 4.2% estimated battery degradation from Teslamate
It is important to realize charging a LFP battery to 100% is for the purpose of range calibration. I do it 2 times per month at 17 amp setting, then drive as soon as possible to drain the battery from 100% to 90%. For the rest of the time I keep the battery at 60% charged. So far I have very little range degradation. Another tip is never DC fast charge the battery above 80% charged.
@thelimitingfactor gave awesome insight on this issue! I have the new M3 Long range and I usually charge to 65% and my daily use drains it to around 40%. My knowledge on degradation was only on dendrites due to fast charging in cold conditions and material fatigue (anode/cathode) due to volumetric changes during cycles (that's why I charge every day & only subject the battery to a max of 25% charge cycle) . But if electrolite degradation is worse of an issue than material fatigue than perhaps I should be cycling between 25-50% instead of 40-65% to keep it at a lower voltage. How can I confirm this?
LFP is so different, if you look at the voltage gadient, you see why. From 2% to 98% it is nearly flat. Driving your car down to 90% after a full charge is pointless. Down to 97% is low enough, most likely even 99%. The voltage drops fast from max. 3.6v full to ~3.3v where LFP likes to be. You also don‘t need to keep it between 40-60%, that is better for NCA/MNC but not for LFP. Between 10-99%, it is just fine. You can not tell if the LFP battery is at 30 or 90% by voltage or any other way, just impossible. That is why you need to charge to 100%, the voltage spikes right at the end. That way the bms resets to 100% and then roughly counts the kWh in/out of the pack for SoC.
In winter in the mountains of Colorado, I tend to have the car at 80%+ charger in the morning, out of a desire to have loads of charge if ever stuck somewhere for a while (like the bridge failure that closed an interstate for hours...the closest way around an obstacle can be hours extra of driving). But I want to learn more about optional charge levels for battery life, for my LFP batteries, to see how long I can maintain high capacity. So far no signs of degradation after 7200 miles.
We have a 2021 Model 3 RWD with 61,259 km on it. When new it would charge to 424 km estimated range, now down to 400 km. I know this is not the most accurate way to measure range degradation, but that is 5.66% degradation over the two years. We always let it slow charge (10A charger that came with the car) to 100% in the garage.
Almost the same as with my 2021 SR+. Started at 424km and is now on 398 after 48,000km. Suc used for 15,000km, the rest slow charge at 13A at home. Always charge to 100% except for SuC
Supercharging to about 80% seems to do little harm. If you need it, don't worry about it. You can do a SoH test in the tesla service menu. Check RUclips instructions. It takes a lot of time but it seems more accurate than Tessies range system.
2023 model, 3 RWD LFP batteries. Range has decreased from 273-266 miles after 6600 miles of driving,(2.6% range loss). Almost all my charging has been on a level 2 home charger. Supercharged, perhaps 5 times in 6 months. Charged to 100% once or twice a week.Thanks.
Maybe you LFP is BYD made ,others CATL made. could you check your which one is yours. where your car manufactered , berlin usually uses byd, and chine is catl
My Model Y RWD from Grünheide/Giga Berlin with BYD Blade LFP pack lost 3.5% after just 4,600 miles and 9 months. It was basically 100% charged at Superchargers (no home charging). I do charge the car to 100% once per week. This is my 6th Tesla and my 3rd with LFP. But it's my first with BYD Blade LFP, the other 2 had CATL LFPs. Those had little slower degradation.
As I read/heard somewhere, it might be a bit quicker at the beginning until it "settles". Then it should be more stable and degrades slowly. And also, my friend reported major difference between his measurments when his Y LR reported in the app around 4-5% of degradation after ~35k kilometers (charged 50:50 on superchargers vs 11/22KW chargers) and was unpleasantly surprised. Then he ran a test and went to ~2% .
i have M3 LR 2022 NMC, my charging habit is once per week to 100%, drove ~50,000km already.. from purchased 578km(100%) now down to 535km(100%).. so about 8% degr.
Thank you for the video. Very clear and easy to understand. LFP charge to 100%! For drivers with home equipped charging solution, I guess it means that whenever you are home, regardless of you battery level, just plug it in and leave it there, is this correct? What about for users whose charging facilities are shared, like myself? I have available normal charging and supercharging, but its not possible to just leave it connected all the time when not in use. We charge to the desired level and then move out from the charging spot and park the car. So, my question here is at which point should I charge? Wait for around 20% and charge? Closer to 0? Or for LFP battery type does not really matter, if I charge to full from 0 or from 95? How about supercharging VS normal charging? Thank you edited typo
I have a 2023 M3 with LFP batteries. I charge at home with a level 2 charger at least weekly to 100%. My car has 12,500 miles and I have lost 2.5% of battery already. That is after 11 months of use.
With all else being equal in the batteries from the same line, I wonder if the degradation differences reside in the lithium; source, impurities, energetics, processing irregularities? I suppose the same could be said for the quality and longevity of the anode and cathode.
Nice video. It would be nice to have the info also in km. I charge to 70% always except 1 time every 3 or 4 weeks to 100% or before long trips. Only 13000km and low degradation at the moment. Regards
I have a 2023 m3 rwd LFP. Little over 1 year old, 14k miles. I’ve lost 10 mi of range or about 3.7%. I charge to 100% once a week and mostly stay between 60 to 90% most if the week.
I got a 2022 tesla model 3 rwd with 113000mi for exactly 2 years and still has 258 miles on a full charge everyday. I use it for uber. I charge it to 100 everyday. I lose 1mi/2mos. I drive almost 5k miles a month. Just sharing
Our 7-month-old 2023 Model 3 RWD has 10,370 miles, at full charge range is 260 miles. Superchargers were used for 4,800 miles, often charging to 100%. The rest of the time we charge at 120 V using the Tesla mobile connector. We charge to 100% about 6 days a week. We live in South FL. Most charging is done at night, the temperature seldom falls below 60 degrees. Does 120 volt charging impact battery life?
slow charge is better than DC fast charge. the heat of DC fast charge kills the battery. So with the LFP HV batt pack, you can use 110v ac or 220v ac to charge what ever level you want, two or once a week up to 100% I believe it is ok. If I can access to L2 charger at home I charge it any time it get down to 40% up to 90% and the next time is 40% to 100%. Or you can do two or three time up to 90% then one time 100% full. So you can get the range estimate more accuracy. that is all about those lithium battery. I dont worry about how many miles any more because you have to use the energy to get comfort, to drive, to use ac or heater and EV wont be exception. You pay to play.
I just got my 2021 Model 3 SR+ upgraded to LFP. The NCA failed at 24K but all is good with the warranty covering it; plus they installed a new stronger suspension to compensate for the LFP being a bit heavier apparently. Anyhow, I am about a week in with this and found that at 99% it says "calibrating" and I waited for over 10 minutes and I stopped as it seemed to stay like that indefinitely. Is that bad? Should I wait? I had to go somewhere at that point but do I need top off to 100% or until it stops on it's own? What are the possible repercussions? When I stopped the charging myself instead of waiting it then showed 100% with 263 miles of range. Everything seems good but I want to get the right habits early on. Thanks!
@@Impalals2001 Yeah, I'm still not sure either but I've been able to let it calibrate and it seems to make no difference. I think charing to whatever you need will be fine. Flooring it and creating spikes in heat and driving strenuously repeatedly or doing track days are what can really destroy a battery over time and I think the differences otherwise are negligible. I started a thread on the Tesla Motors Forum tracking efficiency among other things if you're interested fyi.
I have a 2023 Model 3 rear wheel LFP battery it shows a range of 264 miles with 28,000 miles on the car. I plug in the car in my garage every day and charge to 100%. Even though it shows 264 miles on a 3 hour mostly interstate trip driving 70mph or less I'll get +275 miles
Most people do not realise that to protect the battery the algorithm only normally lets the battery work between 20% and 80% when car is new, but as the miles and battery degradation builds up it incrementally allows the charging to encroach on the 'damage areas' of 80%, so battery degradation is non-linear because the further it goes below 20% and above 80% the faster the battery degrades. Most EV have 'limp mode' where although remaining range is zero, you can access that last 20 % ( and risk battery damage ) by 'overiding' the system.
I am still relatively a new TM3SR owner (10 months) and I am still confused when it comes to charging this LFP battery. I have gone from 272 to 261 miles of max range. But, I have also tried different charging habits to maximize efficiency. At first, I was charging at home (level 2) to 80-85% daily and then 100% on the weekends. This charging habit was getting me a max range of 271. Then somewhere during winter, my max range dipped to 269/268. Then I started to charge daily to 100% and my max range dropped to 267/266. Recently I reverted back to 80% daily and 100% weekends. Then today after coming from the SC (which I normally do not do) and plugging into my Level 2 home charger and setting the charge limit to 100% my max range now is 261. That is an 11-mile / 4% decrease in range in a very short 10 months of driving with 12,000. So please define regularly charging to 100%. What does that mean? If you plug in your vehicle nightly then aren't you regularly charging to 100% on a daily basis?
My understanding is that the degradation isn’t linear. Meaning it loses a bit more in its first year than the following years. Yours seems like more but it’s not out of possibility. In your 2nd year I suspect it might only lose another 1% or so.
I own model 3 LFP 2023 model since September. After just over 6000 miles my car lost 6 miles from 272 to 266 miles on 100% of charge. So this is around 2% already. I also know couple owners with similar degradation so don’t really know what’s going on
🔴 For NCM battery I found that if you keep it between 40-80% and charge every day or every other day, this strategy is the best thing you can do to preserve max battery life.
I have a 2023 M3 rwd LFP with 17600 miles. I regularly charge to 100% once a week and charge to 80% once I get to 40%. So far on tessie app, I've loss 2.6% battery life.
LFP batteries have always had higher charging cycle resilience. This is well known and has been for a long time. With LFP you do give up energy density (range). LFP batteries perform better in the cold though when compared to traditional Lithium batteries.
I Have a 2019 Model 3 with 58,984 mi .... and before the latest update v12 (2024.14.7 e7565e5e7748) , I always charge my car to 100% ( 281 to 284 mi ) no problems until this update... now it won't charge higher that 270 mi at 100% ... does anyone know what is happening...
2023 M3 RWD here, started at 272 miles and is now reporting 268 after 8,000 miles. About 1.4%. I do wonder if I discharge it near 0 and recharge if it would recalibrate and determine worse or better. I charge mine to 100% about every other day, almost exclusively at home. (Used a super charger about 6 or 7 times) - the rest has been at home.)
Of course we shouldn't lose sight of the other motivation for manufacturers recommending a 100% charge for LFP cells - this is the only sure fire way of determining available range as battery voltage is a less effective indicator of charge status due to the flat discharge "curve". Also worth picking up on the observation that 100% means different things depending on the settings used by the manufacturer - it is not always 4.2v/cell for NMC etc cells and the more conservative the "100%" charge level, the less of an issue it will be.
Great video as always- Thanks. My experience with 2023 M3 SR China built, 18'' tires. After 14 month - 25000KM (15.5K miles). According to car: drop from 439 to 425 KM - 3.5% degradation. Usually 1% drop every month. Using 11KWh home charger, charging to 100% once or twice a week - not at night. Charging to 100% is done typically when I am around 30-40% Soc. The charger- and car -are in an underground parking, so not exposed to the elements. I'm almost not using Superchargers (4% of total charges, maybe 10 times total), and never above 90%. I don't know if the driving distances and seed are effecting battery degradation, just for general knowledge: Daily drive is between 12-14% -depends on the weather, with some days extended to ~18%. Every 2 weeks, I'm going 300 KM(~186 miles) longer drive highway speed. 4 times a year I'm doing a longer trip (800KM=~500miles) - also highway speed. in these trips I usually do supercharge.
Look at the second hand M3s many people post the max charge range. Has seen a bit of a variety for the 2021-2023 models here in NZ. Mine is @400 KMs from 420kms after 2.5 years. I charge it only once per week and that's to 100% ,,@7kWs. Very rarely DC fast charged
Mark, mine is a early 2022 60kWh (now exactly 2 years old) and its gone from 100% charge indicated range has gone form 438km to 416km which is 5.0% degradation (if range can be trusted as a measurement for degradation). Have only done about 24,000km so far and about 90% of my charging is AC. For the first 1.5 years I usually only charged 100% once / week - at that stage range was around 419km, but more recently have charged multiple times / week and range has not dropped any faster (in fact maybe less) but then I have seen posts that show degradation slows down so that may explain it. I see quite a few Model 3 LFP in NZ (Trademe etc) that may be doing better than mine, but not sure if thats significant at this stage or if I should change my charging habits. At some point I will discharge to a low level and recharge and see how many kWh its takes.
Are there any statistics on battery pack replacements and the cause of the replacement. Is this a greater issue for NMC or LFP batteries or equal rate. Tesla use LFP packs from CATL and BYD. The BYD blade battery have a somewhat better charging characteristic than the CATL pack.
My M3 sr+ is 14 months old, less than 10,000 miles and has already lost more than 2%. Charge at home on 32 amps 95% of the time. You can show whatever charts you like, that’s the reality for me !
I (we,over 200 Tesla owners mostly LFP ) at around 20 months, we lost average 4%. Regardless how many KM you drive. We have some drive from 15000km to 110000km. In Australia.
My main question is .. I am little busy and everyone know, how long take charge battery from 80 to 100% .. my question is, its okay to charge battery on 100% once per two weeks, or once per week its better and I should make time for it instead charge on 80%.
Another thought provoking video, and comments from other viewers. I have a 2021 M3 SR plus MIC with LFP. Range at new was 422km and now after 33,500km shows 401km at 100%. Thats 5% loss. Most charging is done at home via 7kW outlet using Tesla mobile connector to 100%. Tesla app charge stats show 11% supercharging and 28% other. I don’t drive regular trips so milage varies, eg some weeks I may do just a few km and others 100s. My question is about whether I should charge weekly regardless of SOC as opposed to waiting until SOC is below 50%? Also i have a small capacity rooftop solar system so it cannot supply enough to charge fully in one session. For best battery care should I just charge to 100% and consider the solar contribution a small discount or just top up to 100% over a number of days to optimise the sloar power?
I have a 2022 Tesla Model 3 RWD with 77,618 miles. It has about 96% of its original 272 range when new. When charged to 100%, it shows 261 miles of range. It may improve after I get my home charger installed. I have been charging my vehicle to 80% - 100% solely on Tesla Superchargers. I have changed it twice to 100%, once to 90% and once to 80% - note that I just purchased it used. I think the battery percentage will improve a few percent with daily level 2 charging. But we'll have to see if that is true. Based on my research, these batteries actually do better being charged every day. I am installing a Tesla Universal Wall Connector next week and so I will be able to experiment to find the best charging regimen. It appears that the LFP Model 3 batteries should keep their range in the 95% area for at least 5 - 8 years. The LFP chemistry has superior longevity to anything on the market right now.
I want to point out that i dont think anecdotal loss of range comments are useful due to BMS wander (especially for LFP). The most accurate way to see your degradation without additional tools/apps is to discharge to 0-5% then immediately charge (ideally the fastest level 2 speed you can get) to 100%, then allow the car to sit at 100% for a couple hours. I doubt people are doing this when quoting their degradation numbers. The internal tool in service mode essentially does this, but i doubt people use the degradation test within service mode either...
I have some different question - do you think that it makes sense to charge Tesla Y LFP with... 1A only? I know it is super slow, but if I have not enough energy from PV this 1A is OK to balance IN/OUT of power to the network.
My Friend i got Tesla Model Y 2024 Dual Motor My charging daily like 22 miles one way both like 43 mile. Daily i charge Charging Spot ? Most important is the Amps daily charging ? plus thr range Gap of Charging ? My min 70% Max 80 % once every 2 months charge 100% at very low rate of charge from 5 Amps to 15 Amps
I got 4% degradation of my 2023 LFP battery for a one year old car, with less than 7k miles. The car battery has never been pushed to low levels, and almost always charged at home. Am I just unlucky? I used to have the car charged to 100% 2-3 times a week due to the Telsa recomendation to keep the limit at 100% and always plugged at home. Did this damage the battery?
I have m3 rwd lfp, with 35k km. The range is 418km (new was 441km).Which means 5,3% degradation. I very rarely charge to 100%, most of the time charge up to 80% at home 10amps. Rarely use Superchargers with max to 85% charging.
If you charge to 100%, where does the regen current go? I would like to avoid brake usage. Why does Tesla recommend 100% when you can charge to less for daily use in city? Is 100% better than 80 or 90?
If you have an LFP battery and your daily commute is 100 miles so you have to plug it in every night, would you leave it set to 100% every day? Or 85% daily and then 100% once a week? For the long-term health of the battery? Asking for a friend...
The Tessie app shows degradation of 3.1% after 37000km of driving on my 2022 Model Y RWD LFP. I follow the instructions from Tesla and charge to 100% at least once per week at home. Most of my charging is done at home, maybe 10% Supercharging. Original range estimate was 435km, now says 420km @ 100%. It seems to be degrading faster than I expected.
-22 Model 3, MIC with LFP here. After 50000 miles it has lost very little. In lower temperature/winter it gets maybe 350 km. I suppose that is predicted on average speed. Not motorway speed.
Interesting data, maybe I'm an outlier but I just hit 10k miles, according to Teslafi I'm at 262.91 miles range at 100%. the car new was 272 so i have lost 3.34% seems a little high. I charge to 90% almost every day and 100% once a week. wonder if im doing something wrong...
I think the last part is wrong 3.1v at 10% soc is pretty normal. The voltage drop is really steep at the end of the ocv curve. So I would guess it could and still end up at 2.5v at 0% soc. This can also be seen on spec sheets for lfp cells. 3.65v is solid max recommend voltage of the cell manufacturer for 100% soc. So I don't think Tesla really goes easy on the cells. Normally it's the opposite. Tesla is not known for keeping a lot of buffer.
Hi, Is it correct when I check my battery degradation, compering range when I picked up my TM3 LFP (439km) and now (428-431km)? Is it the same as in Tessie? I charge to 100% once per 2 weeks. I have got my car 10 months and 36kkm. Most often I charge my car between 20/30 - 70/80% like my previous car KIA eNiro 64kWh.
My US made M3 02/2021 SR+ with NMC battery after 40000km lost 11% so what got better ? And I'm avoiding DC charging as much as possible charging on AC 4:1 at least! Charging daily to 75%, charging 1x or 2x per year tops to 100%. And perhaps 10x to 90%. Car is parked in a non heated garage.
Hi, floating around YT looking for info on MY RWD LFP in the US. We are planning to order a MY RWD in early May 2024 and the Tesla sales advisor told me in an email the RWD in the US comes with the LFP battery. Can anyone confirm if they took delivery of a RWD MY in 2024 and did actually have the LFP battery? Want to trust the sales guy, but also want to verify. Very confusing when you do the research online with all sorts of different answers. Thanks much for any help.
Thanks much. Would not be the first time a car salesman lied or did not have all the facts correct but this is quite frustrating for Tesla to be so ambiguous on such an important part of the car.
I have a 2023 Model 3 LFP battery with 38K miles on it and charge to 100% everyday because I drive for a living. At full charge i get 261 miles now vs 272 miles when I first bought the car. So I believe that's 3.75% degradation so far. Is that good or bad?
![Lethal Company Music Video 🎵 "Follow The Orders" [VERSION A]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QeooZB4Z7RA/mqdefault.jpg)
We have 10 year data on old “S” models & Tesla published it. It was 12% degraded after 300,000 miles in 10 years. This is great outcome. The LFP battery of the recent model 3 & Y should be even better !
My M3 2021 SR+ with NMC battery after 40000km lost 11% so what got better ? And I'm avoiding DC charging as much as possible charging on AC 4:1 at least!
@@jozefroman2110you may have a cell that's bad and it's pulling the entire pack down. If the degradation continues it looks like you will get that fixed on warranty.
@@jozefroman2110 and how did you come to the 11%?
You live in cold, mild or hot climate?
Beside the chemistry, it also depends the capacity of the battery. With a bigger capacity you will have fewer cycles on the same kilometers.
@@Manu-P8but the thinks is right....11% from 100kwh is 11kwh and 11% from 58kwh is 6kwh so 11 nor equal 11 is like 11 vs 6 😊
I have a late 2021 LFP Model 3 that came with 252 miles of range brand new. After 50,000 miles driven it now estimates 238 miles at 100%, for a rough degradation loss of around 5% (assuming the range estimate is accurate). Not too shabby. I always Level 2 charge around 15 Amps and normally go down to low percentages between charges, while also hitting 100% once per week as recommended by Tesla, and Supercharge a few times a year for road trips.
However I've recently learned that it is better for the life of the batteries to not always be "deep charged" from 0-100%, but rather short slow charges to minimize degradation. So now I just plug in every day and let the car slowly crawl up back to just enough to make it above where I left off percent-wise yesterday (until the end of the week when I charge to 100% again).
This is an underrated point. Almost every EV owner I know seems to think discharging the battery to almost empty is ok. I think it’s a carry over habit from the way people refuel their gas cars.
The manual also states to “leave the car plugged in when not in use” in capital letters too. IE: charge it as often as you can.
I have a 2021 model 3 sr+ with almost 78k miles and my max range is 237 with the LFP battery. I plug in every evening when I'm done driving for the day and charge at 28A to 100%. It's been good to me no major issues. I was a truck guy and do miss being in a truck but the cost to own my model 3 is hard to beat. Hopefully it lasts me 500k miles lol
@@jacobdaniel5184 What do you think of the Silverado EV coming out? JerryRigEverything pushed it to a real world range of 460 miles. I have a 21 model 3 sr+ as well. Only hesitation with other EVs is the charging network
Good information. Thank you. I wish I could get a long range LFP equipped Model 3
Would have to have a larger volume to accomodate for the extra cells since LFP has lower energy density so it won't happen because Tesla would have to redesign the entire car around it.
@@alexandruilea915 CATL have just released new LFP battery that has nearly the same energy density as Nickel cells so it could happen.
@@taefravis that wasn't know at the time of my comment, but you are right. It could come on the next model Y update.
I thought I wanted a long range too but the regular range has been plenty for us. We spent the day shopping and then drove to Northern Minnesota and back still had 22% charge left.
Neighbors with them say they only use the TESLA DUPERCHARGER SITES every other year or so.
MY brand new model Y regular range has LFP BATTERIES AND THEY ARE FINE! A full day of shopping then a trip to Northern Minnesota and back left us with 22% charge left.
Typically you don’t charge on the road for more than 10-15 minutes at a time. That’s when you get the fastest charge and the longest range for the least amount of time.
A trick you learn watching cross country EV racers. On U tube.
Nobody puts a full charge because the last 20-30% takes the longest amount of time.
I regularly charge my 2022 Model Y RWD with LFP battery to 100% and have 2.4% degradation according to the Tessie app after about 15 months and 26k km of ownership. I drive mostly on the freeway at around 110km per hour and have a daily commute of about 50km one way.
Just trying to get a consensus - so you charge daily to 100%
@@Impalals2001 yes at least 6 times a week.
Is your TMY equipped with the newer battery? Aka is LFP the battery that requires 100% charge and previous battery is up to 80%?
@@ballzonyuh761it has the LFP and yes I charge it to 100% almost daily, actually trying to get it below 30% once a week.
@@AndriesPretorius-i5i do you know what month yours was manufactured in? Seems like late 2022 models came with LFP although not all did
I have a 2022 M3LR (NMC/A Batt) and a 2022 M3RWD (LFP Batt), both made in China. The LR has covered 38,000 Km with exactly 5% degradation. The RWD has covered 75,000 Km with 4.2% degradation. (data out of Tessie App) The LR 99% 7Kw charging (32amp single phase) to 80% capacity and the RWD 70% supercharging to 100% capacity. The LFP battery durability so far has really impressed me with a similar driving range to the NMC/A battery @ 80% capacity. Whadyaknow Elon was right!
If it wasn't for the ocassional road trip I would take the LFP M3 on a cost / hassle per km basis everytime.
132k 2022 Model 3. 258 mi at full charge. 5.1% range loss. Pretty close to 2% per 45k.
My 2022 M3 Standard is already at 258 miles at full charge after only 29,800 miles. You have put 4 times that many miles with same range loss! I hope my battery pack is not a lemon.
@@abnerrivera3986 The car has 159k now with 257 Mi. I got 284 miles the other day. Range seems to be more age related than milage. I've seen other 2022's with 1/3rd the miles with the same range. They say the LFP should flatten out around the two year mark. We'll see.
@@abnerrivera3986 I don't think it's a lemon. Now that I think about it... The range fell from 264 to 258 quickly as it approached 2 years old. After turning 2, It's only lost 1 mile over the last 5 months and 27k miles. It does seem to slow down.
We'll see what it's like on its third birthday.
@@dustinkarrick7819 Interesting, I hope that is the case with mine as well. Only time will tell. I do love driving the M3 though, used to have a 2018 Nissan LEAF, and even though it was a great car, the technology and the power of the M3 is just awesome.
Beautiful, I am going to go back and charge it 100 percent daily.
Is that what you got out of what it means to charge regularly to 100%? 🤔
2022 M3 RWD (LFP) 21K miles in 18 months. Range is now 261 miles (down from 272 which is ~4% range loss). Typically L2 charge to 100% at least 1x/week when down to 20% or before longer drives. SuperCharge 22% overall - but only on road trips - typically from 5-10% up to 70%. On 2nd MidWest winter, and need new tires soon. I wonder if the very cold temps have an effect on battery degradation.
The cold slows down degradation to almost zero. Its high charge/voltage with heat that eats away capacity.
EE channel has a great short video on this.
im seeing the same numbers and im in Florida im at 266 at only 15k miles
2023 model 3 RWD with 12k miles living in Las Vegas.
100% charge at 260mi down from 273mi new. I charge to 80-90% once a week ish with 100% once a week.
I lost miles immediately when I bought it charging to 100% every time so I tried the other way. Clearly it’s not working either. If this trend keeps up I’ll be using the warranty.
I sold my 2018 Model 3 Long Range, which my wife had reserved in June of last year, to purchase a Rivian. At the time of sale, it had around 61,000 miles on it. I remember that when I first received the car, it showed a range of almost 320 to 325 miles on a full charge. However, when I sold it, it was showing around 280 miles of range at 100% charge. I didn't use the supercharger much after buying the car, maybe about three times, and I typically charged it to 70% daily, with occasional 100% charges for long-distance trips, about two or three times a month. I've heard people say that the battery now is different from the one I had back then, but I'm not sure about the differences. Nonetheless, I don't think the decrease in range that I experienced is too bad, considering my usage
Boy, that's good to know...my 2018 ICE vehicle has an average range of 350 miles on a full tank and after five years my range for a full tank of gas averages 350 miles. On the highway, my range goes up to over 400 miles at 85 mph. Every time I drive it I'm helping plants grow. I can't imagine paying that much money for something that ugly. The Cybercoffin makes me think the Tesla design dept. is populated by mentally challenged vision and physically impaired individuals.
Just curious, how's the Rivian holding up?
Tesla didnt start using lfp batteries until 2021 . We got a long time before high mielage data can be collected on lfp batteries . But the technology seems very promising
@@chrisfifield8583 agreed, and there was a lot of testing done before Tesla made the changes
Thanks for the correction. Great video.
It is worth noting that the range estimate fluctuate a lot of the LFP. One week it said 257 Miles of range on my M3 RWD, I was in slight shock but crossed fingers that it was a unbalanced battery issue with the LFP. This week it shows 265 Miles. So depending on the battery balancing, it will show different range estimates. Since I rarely ever charge the car to 100%, it is possible that the BMS doesn't know the state of each individual battery unless it is charged to 100% once in a while.
Also want to note that the car is now completely drained at 0%, I had to get the car tow to nearest supercharger 2.5 miles away. In a couple other instances I had 5 Miles left after hitting 0%, but not anymore. I'm certain that this is due to new software updates. In other words: 0% means 0%.
Supposably reaching 0% you have about 10 mile worth of battery
I believe in recent updates, 0% now means 0% battery left. I had to pull over within 5seconds of hitting 0%
Note that you have to jump the 12v battery for 20seconds to turn on computer to accept supercharge. But no stress non-the less.
It is better to get a tow on a car with 1% battery since you will be able to put car in neutral and roll the rear tires without having to use dollies on the rear tires. Flatbed is a bit faster way to get car towed.
That is exactly why they recommend you charge to 100% once per week to make sure the BMS is correctly calibrated. It can "forget" how much capacity it has and is only accurate between 95% and 5% I've heard due to how the voltage of the LFP pack works.
@@Dubitz That's a good point to remember and apply. I don't like getting to far below 10% and every estimate that leaves me with 5% or less on a trip is "gulp" not confidence inspiring. I had to get down to 1% once and was sweating. I'm also afraid of the "damage" that may do but I understand in theory it can be actually good but how one goes about that in a good way I'm not sure. We all have different needs and I understand why one may end up letting it get to zero or close to that often. Hopefully it all keeps working. Best
Most professionally made video on RUclips thanks John 🙏🏻
John, you have to charge NMC batteries to 100% periodically for good BMS calibration. I think folks are over inflating the value of a calibrated BMS.
I have Model 3LFP. Purchased June 2023. Has 47,000 miles on it today. Uber driving about 1800 miles per week. Charge 67% level 2 at home and 33% super charging. Charge to 100% at home daily. As far as I can tell, no degradation yet. But I'm not an expert. I'd never buy anything but an LFP battery EV when driving Uber full time. You'll destroy an NCM battery way too fast. I expect my battery to last 500,000 miles. FYI, at full charge the car still shows 272 miles of range.
I don’t mean to question you, but it’s extremely unlikely that there hasn’t been any range loss.
@@BobbieGWhiz I agree. I've got no way to do any official test and I never did any test when I first bought it. But most people just say what the car lists as available mileage when fully charged.
I have a 2023 with 26k miles on it and the range on it is 260-262 on a full charge
Calendar aging is the main degradation force for LFP batteries, so yes it's certain your June 2023 Model 3 LFP battery has degraded.
@@jeremyrom It's at 75,000 miles now. I think it shows 265. But nothing that I've noticed in loss of range. I'm sure a technical analysis would confirm, but it's way too little loss to notice in actual life use. My goal was to get to 80k in the first year, but I might miss that by a bit. Only two weeks left to get 5k more miles, and that's not going to happen with my June schedule.
My 1-year old Model 3 RWD has 7.2k miles on it now when fully charged has 262 miles range. It showed 273 miles range when new. I regularly charge it to 100% once a week.
Which LFP battery has your car BYD or CATL and where was your car manufactered, berlin, china .
@@boraimran built in Fremont CA. I guess it has catl battery
I'm wondering how much of the initial "degradation" is due to calibration of estimating range to one's real world experience? Meaning it's calculating what you specifically will get with the routes, charging habits etc you literally put this specific car through vs it actually having any real loss over the first few thousand miles. I think from ~5k to 50k miles will be a better reflection of any actual degradation imho. So say you get 268 consistently from 2k on... then the car gets say 261 at the 50k mark, that would be the accurate degradation for your vehicle at 2.6%. It would be considered 4.3% from 0 miles but I think one needs to give the car actual miles to give the BMS the data to calculate range more accurately and no one is going to have consistently ideal enough conditions to get the max say 273 miles. I don't have data to confirm or negate this but it's something to consider.
My M3 is very similar to yours. 273 to 262 in 8.5k miles. All home charging at a modest 10-20A rate. Fremont built 6/2023
@@CoralSeaas far as I know the 3 never has BYD blade battery, only the Y from Berlin.
2022 model 3 rwd at 25k miles. Currently showing 261 miles range. Level 2 charging at 20 amps at work. Only reaching 100% once per week and occasionally twice per week.
LFP is used for solar instalations, where are charged to 100% almost everyday, LFP bateries should last over 6000 cycles when used between 100% - 10%. Also this batteries need time to balance the cells, if you never give time the battery at 100% it wont balance and loose some capacity. The good thing is that this is fixed by leaving some hours charging after hitting 100%
Have owned original China made 09/21 model 3 53.5Kw LFP battery that has done 99,000 Km and has 4.8% degradation. I did charge to 100% in the first 9 months but now only charge to 100% when I need more than the daily 80% level charge.
did you see any benefit charging up to 80?
I have slightly different experience with my 2021 LFP M3. I have charged my car once per week to 100% at home with 11kWh Tesla charger. The degradation after 55000 km is around 5% from 420 km to 401 km of nominal range. But it is also important to check capacity at the start and still available after that 55000 km. It that case, based on the readings from the application I have, degradation is 7.2% (a drop from 55 kWh to 51 kWh still available in the battery pack). Interesting, right? Once per year I do 2500 km trip. I have noticed those supercharger sessions brought the biggest impact on the nominal range drop. The drop stabilized over the last couple of months so that degradation trend discussed also in your video seems to be confirmed: the biggest drop will happen up to 50000 km and then will be slow. However, I am afraid that additional supercharging sessions on the long trips will cause additional degradation of my LFP battery. I keep you posted. If this is indeed confirmed then the charging power also needs to be taken into account when evaluating degradation characteristic of LFP battery.
Thank you!
My 2022 MY MIC with LFP has now done 45,000km in 15 mths and started out at 435km FC and is now 421km FC (-3.2%).
Home charging ~65% on 240V 10amp
Tesla SC 5%
Other ~30% mostly 50KW
If anything, I haven't charged to 100% every week, but plan to do so in future. I recall Elon suggesting a few times that LFP likes to be charged to 100%!
Will be interesting to see if that degradation rate settles.
I'm just wondering what difference it charging between 95,90,85,80% are degradation different or similar.
In my opinion this is not true. One month I forgot to charge to 100% end my nominal range drop to 418km (when new 439km) It was a few days before long trip with a few charging at Tesla SuC station. After this trip my nominal range incrise to 433km. So, I think that fast charging is no such bad (from time to time) 🙂
LFP type have to work very well with the BMS to give you correct estimates. LFP battery voltage range is very tight and low, making it problematic for BMS to correctly estimate kWh/ah in your battery. 100% charge to teach BMS what's the cap
Bought my 2023 M3 with LFP last year. According to Tessie, I have 4.4% degradation at 26k miles. I charge to 100% between 1 to 3 times a week on level 2 chargers. If I miss charging session at work then sometimes Ill supercharge to 100%.
The model 3 lfp packs are Catl sourced prismatic cells where the model Y made in Europe has the byd blade battery. Unsure of where the lfp cells come from in US made model Y. Blade batteries charge much better than prismatic ones used.
2022 RWD M3 17,292 miles. LFP Battery. 273 miles new. Now 258 at 18 months of ownership. I live in North Florida. Car is always garaged on level 2 charger set to 100%. Very few times on super charger. 5.5% loss.
Which LFP battery has your car BYD or CATL and where was your car manufactered, berlin, china
I’ve a LFP model 3 rear wheel- have $46000 km. About 30% supercharging- range at 100% charge is 425 km. Used to be 438 km when new.
My model y rwd LFP CATL SHANGHAI, it has reached 60.000 km and exactly 2 years now when it’s changed at 100% it shows 403 km when was new it was showing 418 km when fully charged.
Also depends on if these packs are BYD or some other brand.
Whew! We just ordered our first, anxiety awaiting a 2024 M3 RWD with LFP battery. Thanks for the update.
Do all new models 3 or Y have LFP battery?
It's my understanding that both 2024 models include an LFP for the base RWD version and NAC batteries for the AWD versions.
Taking delivery in a week. Test drove a 2024 model 3 AWD yesterday. Glad we ordered the RWD version. I felt the extra weight of the larger battery and it didn't feel right with what felt like too much weight and hp for the suspension to handle. It's a superb EV with a soft suspension. It's not a genuine high speed sports car. The lighter car will be better balanced IMO.
Model 3 standard range 2021 LFP battery, now at 86,400 km (54,000 miles). In the 1st year I have been charging to 95% and once a week to 100% then per Tesla's recommendation I moved to daily charge to 100%. I experience quite a degradation in computed range from 424km to 398km (that's 6.13% decrease)
I have a 23 China built Model Y RWD with 12 months driving for 14000Km. My range droped from 435Km to 420Km when i fully charge. I use wall connector to charge it at home all the time and fully charge it 100% once or twice per week. I have 4.2% estimated battery degradation from Teslamate
you need to drive over 100K km to see the real result of degration. 14K km is still too early to see. It always drops fast in early stage.
I'm on 40000km battery fully charged at 424km. 2023 model y rwd. Exacting 12th months.
It is important to realize charging a LFP battery to 100% is for the purpose of range calibration. I do it 2 times per month at 17 amp setting, then drive as soon as possible to drain the battery from 100% to 90%. For the rest of the time I keep the battery at 60% charged. So far I have very little range degradation. Another tip is never DC fast charge the battery above 80% charged.
@thelimitingfactor gave awesome insight on this issue! I have the new M3 Long range and I usually charge to 65% and my daily use drains it to around 40%. My knowledge on degradation was only on dendrites due to fast charging in cold conditions and material fatigue (anode/cathode) due to volumetric changes during cycles (that's why I charge every day & only subject the battery to a max of 25% charge cycle) . But if electrolite degradation is worse of an issue than material fatigue than perhaps I should be cycling between 25-50% instead of 40-65% to keep it at a lower voltage. How can I confirm this?
@@ptviwatcher Least strain for the battery is when it is at 50% charged.
@@arubaga but isn't it bad to let it go as low as 20~25% on a regular basis?
LFP is so different, if you look at the voltage gadient, you see why.
From 2% to 98% it is nearly flat.
Driving your car down to 90% after a full charge is pointless. Down to 97% is low enough, most likely even 99%. The voltage drops fast from max. 3.6v full to ~3.3v where LFP likes to be. You also don‘t need to keep it between 40-60%, that is better for NCA/MNC but not for LFP. Between 10-99%, it is just fine.
You can not tell if the LFP battery is at 30 or 90% by voltage or any other way, just impossible. That is why you need to charge to 100%, the voltage spikes right at the end. That way the bms resets to 100% and then roughly counts the kWh in/out of the pack for SoC.
In winter in the mountains of Colorado, I tend to have the car at 80%+ charger in the morning, out of a desire to have loads of charge if ever stuck somewhere for a while (like the bridge failure that closed an interstate for hours...the closest way around an obstacle can be hours extra of driving). But I want to learn more about optional charge levels for battery life, for my LFP batteries, to see how long I can maintain high capacity. So far no signs of degradation after 7200 miles.
We have a 2021 Model 3 RWD with 61,259 km on it. When new it would charge to 424 km estimated range, now down to 400 km. I know this is not the most accurate way to measure range degradation, but that is 5.66% degradation over the two years. We always let it slow charge (10A charger that came with the car) to 100% in the garage.
Almost the same as with my 2021 SR+. Started at 424km and is now on 398 after 48,000km. Suc used for 15,000km, the rest slow charge at 13A at home. Always charge to 100% except for SuC
i want to purchase lfp in my next vehicle but i love to go vroom vroom in my performance tesla so i guess im stuck with nickle or w/e
How do you check the actual degradation of the battery? and do supercharging your battery frequently effects battery degradation? thanks
Supercharging to about 80% seems to do little harm. If you need it, don't worry about it. You can do a SoH test in the tesla service menu. Check RUclips instructions. It takes a lot of time but it seems more accurate than Tessies range system.
2023 model, 3 RWD LFP batteries. Range has decreased from 273-266 miles after 6600 miles of driving,(2.6% range loss). Almost all my charging has been on a level 2 home charger. Supercharged, perhaps 5 times in 6 months. Charged to 100% once or twice a week.Thanks.
Maybe you LFP is BYD made ,others CATL made. could you check your which one is yours. where your car manufactered , berlin usually uses byd, and chine is catl
@@boraimran Fremont, CA, USA
My Model Y RWD from Grünheide/Giga Berlin with BYD Blade LFP pack lost 3.5% after just 4,600 miles and 9 months. It was basically 100% charged at Superchargers (no home charging). I do charge the car to 100% once per week. This is my 6th Tesla and my 3rd with LFP. But it's my first with BYD Blade LFP, the other 2 had CATL LFPs. Those had little slower degradation.
As I read/heard somewhere, it might be a bit quicker at the beginning until it "settles". Then it should be more stable and degrades slowly. And also, my friend reported major difference between his measurments when his Y LR reported in the app around 4-5% of degradation after ~35k kilometers (charged 50:50 on superchargers vs 11/22KW chargers) and was unpleasantly surprised. Then he ran a test and went to ~2% .
i have M3 LR 2022 NMC, my charging habit is once per week to 100%, drove ~50,000km already.. from purchased 578km(100%) now down to 535km(100%).. so about 8% degr.
Would be interesting to see statistic on how ambient temperature affects degradation.
Thank you for the video. Very clear and easy to understand. LFP charge to 100%! For drivers with home equipped charging solution, I guess it means that whenever you are home, regardless of you battery level, just plug it in and leave it there, is this correct?
What about for users whose charging facilities are shared, like myself? I have available normal charging and supercharging, but its not possible to just leave it connected all the time when not in use. We charge to the desired level and then move out from the charging spot and park the car. So, my question here is at which point should I charge? Wait for around 20% and charge? Closer to 0? Or for LFP battery type does not really matter, if I charge to full from 0 or from 95? How about supercharging VS normal charging?
Thank you
edited typo
I have a 2023 M3 with LFP batteries. I charge at home with a level 2 charger at least weekly to 100%. My car has 12,500 miles and I have lost 2.5% of battery already. That is after 11 months of use.
With all else being equal in the batteries from the same line, I wonder if the degradation differences reside in the lithium; source, impurities, energetics, processing irregularities? I suppose the same could be said for the quality and longevity of the anode and cathode.
Nice video. It would be nice to have the info also in km. I charge to 70% always except 1 time every 3 or 4 weeks to 100% or before long trips. Only 13000km and low degradation at the moment. Regards
Convert from miles to km, easy to do!
I have a 2023 m3 rwd LFP. Little over 1 year old, 14k miles. I’ve lost 10 mi of range or about 3.7%. I charge to 100% once a week and mostly stay between 60 to 90% most if the week.
Do you recommend it?
@@rudycastillo4150 I do. Range loss isn’t a big issue for me. I wish I could get the upgraded sound system on the RWD
@@DemonXplaid we bought our this January so . I'm looking at way to make way more efficient like changing the wheel and tires
I got a 2022 tesla model 3 rwd with 113000mi for exactly 2 years and still has 258 miles on a full charge everyday. I use it for uber. I charge it to 100 everyday. I lose 1mi/2mos. I drive almost 5k miles a month. Just sharing
That is awesome - LFP is the best!
Our 7-month-old 2023 Model 3 RWD has 10,370 miles, at full charge range is 260 miles. Superchargers were used for 4,800 miles, often charging to 100%. The rest of the time we charge at 120 V using the Tesla mobile connector. We charge to 100% about 6 days a week. We live in South FL. Most charging is done at night, the temperature seldom falls below 60 degrees.
Does 120 volt charging impact battery life?
slow charge is better than DC fast charge. the heat of DC fast charge kills the battery. So with the LFP HV batt pack, you can use 110v ac or 220v ac to charge what ever level you want, two or once a week up to 100% I believe it is ok. If I can access to L2 charger at home I charge it any time it get down to 40% up to 90% and the next time is 40% to 100%. Or you can do two or three time up to 90% then one time 100% full. So you can get the range estimate more accuracy. that is all about those lithium battery. I dont worry about how many miles any more because you have to use the energy to get comfort, to drive, to use ac or heater and EV wont be exception. You pay to play.
I just got my 2021 Model 3 SR+ upgraded to LFP. The NCA failed at 24K but all is good with the warranty covering it; plus they installed a new stronger suspension to compensate for the LFP being a bit heavier apparently. Anyhow, I am about a week in with this and found that at 99% it says "calibrating" and I waited for over 10 minutes and I stopped as it seemed to stay like that indefinitely. Is that bad? Should I wait? I had to go somewhere at that point but do I need top off to 100% or until it stops on it's own? What are the possible repercussions? When I stopped the charging myself instead of waiting it then showed 100% with 263 miles of range. Everything seems good but I want to get the right habits early on. Thanks!
I am still trying to figure out what good habits are with an LFP battery pack
@@Impalals2001 Yeah, I'm still not sure either but I've been able to let it calibrate and it seems to make no difference. I think charing to whatever you need will be fine. Flooring it and creating spikes in heat and driving strenuously repeatedly or doing track days are what can really destroy a battery over time and I think the differences otherwise are negligible. I started a thread on the Tesla Motors Forum tracking efficiency among other things if you're interested fyi.
I have a 2023 Model 3 rear wheel LFP battery it shows a range of 264 miles with 28,000 miles on the car. I plug in the car in my garage every day and charge to 100%. Even though it shows 264 miles on a 3 hour mostly interstate trip driving 70mph or less I'll get +275 miles
Most people do not realise that to protect the battery the algorithm only normally lets the battery work between 20% and 80% when car is new, but as the miles and battery degradation builds up it incrementally allows the charging to encroach on the 'damage areas' of 80%, so battery degradation is non-linear because the further it goes below 20% and above 80% the faster the battery degrades. Most EV have 'limp mode' where although remaining range is zero, you can access that last 20 % ( and risk battery damage ) by 'overiding' the system.
I am still relatively a new TM3SR owner (10 months) and I am still confused when it comes to charging this LFP battery. I have gone from 272 to 261 miles of max range. But, I have also tried different charging habits to maximize efficiency. At first, I was charging at home (level 2) to 80-85% daily and then 100% on the weekends. This charging habit was getting me a max range of 271. Then somewhere during winter, my max range dipped to 269/268. Then I started to charge daily to 100% and my max range dropped to 267/266. Recently I reverted back to 80% daily and 100% weekends. Then today after coming from the SC (which I normally do not do) and plugging into my Level 2 home charger and setting the charge limit to 100% my max range now is 261. That is an 11-mile / 4% decrease in range in a very short 10 months of driving with 12,000. So please define regularly charging to 100%. What does that mean? If you plug in your vehicle nightly then aren't you regularly charging to 100% on a daily basis?
My understanding is that the degradation isn’t linear. Meaning it loses a bit more in its first year than the following years. Yours seems like more but it’s not out of possibility.
In your 2nd year I suspect it might only lose another 1% or so.
I have the same numbers as you except I only have 3500 miles
I own model 3 LFP 2023 model since September. After just over 6000 miles my car lost 6 miles from 272 to 266 miles on 100% of charge. So this is around 2% already. I also know couple owners with similar degradation so don’t really know what’s going on
Degradation is usually not linear, but usually tapers off after an initial drop. I wouldn't worry about 2% right now.
🔴 For NCM battery I found that if you keep it between 40-80% and charge every day or every other day, this strategy is the best thing you can do to preserve max battery life.
I have a 2023 M3 rwd LFP with 17600 miles. I regularly charge to 100% once a week and charge to 80% once I get to 40%. So far on tessie app, I've loss 2.6% battery life.
Which LFP battery has your car BYD or CATL and where was your car manufactered, berlin, china
I have a 2023 LFP model 3. I charge regularly to 100%. I have lost 13km of estimated range with only 15000 travelled.
LFP batteries have always had higher charging cycle resilience. This is well known and has been for a long time. With LFP you do give up energy density (range). LFP batteries perform better in the cold though when compared to traditional Lithium batteries.
Actually LFP cells lose more range in the cold than NMC versions.
Great detail as usual.. 👍👍👍👍🦘🦘🦘🦘
2019 Model 3 @ 75K lost 11%, I blame SENRY mode which I put on all the time, last 6 months I stopped using SENTRY mode.
I own 2021 m3 lfp battery, initially it was 424km now on 100% it shows 398km, almost 7% loss
I Have a 2019 Model 3 with 58,984 mi .... and before the latest update v12 (2024.14.7 e7565e5e7748) , I always charge my car to 100% ( 281 to 284 mi ) no problems until this update... now it won't charge higher that 270 mi at 100% ... does anyone know what is happening...
2023 M3 RWD here, started at 272 miles and is now reporting 268 after 8,000 miles. About 1.4%.
I do wonder if I discharge it near 0 and recharge if it would recalibrate and determine worse or better.
I charge mine to 100% about every other day, almost exclusively at home. (Used a super charger about 6 or 7 times) - the rest has been at home.)
Of course we shouldn't lose sight of the other motivation for manufacturers recommending a 100% charge for LFP cells - this is the only sure fire way of determining available range as battery voltage is a less effective indicator of charge status due to the flat discharge "curve". Also worth picking up on the observation that 100% means different things depending on the settings used by the manufacturer - it is not always 4.2v/cell for NMC etc cells and the more conservative the "100%" charge level, the less of an issue it will be.
Great video as always- Thanks.
My experience with 2023 M3 SR China built, 18'' tires. After 14 month - 25000KM (15.5K miles). According to car: drop from 439 to 425 KM - 3.5% degradation. Usually 1% drop every month.
Using 11KWh home charger, charging to 100% once or twice a week - not at night. Charging to 100% is done typically when I am around 30-40% Soc. The charger- and car -are in an underground parking, so not exposed to the elements.
I'm almost not using Superchargers (4% of total charges, maybe 10 times total), and never above 90%.
I don't know if the driving distances and seed are effecting battery degradation, just for general knowledge:
Daily drive is between 12-14% -depends on the weather, with some days extended to ~18%. Every 2 weeks, I'm going 300 KM(~186 miles) longer drive highway speed. 4 times a year I'm doing a longer trip (800KM=~500miles) - also highway speed. in these trips I usually do supercharge.
Which LFP battery has your car BYD or CATL , mostl likely CATL (china)
Look at the second hand M3s many people post the max charge range. Has seen a bit of a variety for the 2021-2023 models here in NZ. Mine is @400 KMs from 420kms after 2.5 years. I charge it only once per week and that's to 100% ,,@7kWs. Very rarely DC fast charged
Mark, mine is a early 2022 60kWh (now exactly 2 years old) and its gone from 100% charge indicated range has gone form 438km to 416km which is 5.0% degradation (if range can be trusted as a measurement for degradation). Have only done about 24,000km so far and about 90% of my charging is AC. For the first 1.5 years I usually only charged 100% once / week - at that stage range was around 419km, but more recently have charged multiple times / week and range has not dropped any faster (in fact maybe less) but then I have seen posts that show degradation slows down so that may explain it. I see quite a few Model 3 LFP in NZ (Trademe etc) that may be doing better than mine, but not sure if thats significant at this stage or if I should change my charging habits.
At some point I will discharge to a low level and recharge and see how many kWh its takes.
Are there any statistics on battery pack replacements and the cause of the replacement. Is this a greater issue for NMC or LFP batteries or equal rate. Tesla use LFP packs from CATL and BYD. The BYD blade battery have a somewhat better charging characteristic than the CATL pack.
MY MODEL 3 22,453 MILES SHOWS 3.% DEGRADATION I charge every day to hundred percent.... Yes I got it LFP...
My M3 sr+ is 14 months old, less than 10,000 miles and has already lost more than 2%. Charge at home on 32 amps 95% of the time. You can show whatever charts you like, that’s the reality for me !
You car is not LFP, that has something to do with it as well as how you drive etc.
@@taefravis No, my car is LFP !
I (we,over 200 Tesla owners mostly LFP ) at around 20 months, we lost average 4%. Regardless how many KM you drive. We have some drive from 15000km to 110000km. In Australia.
wihch LFP battery BYD or Catl
My main question is .. I am little busy and everyone know, how long take charge battery from 80 to 100% .. my question is, its okay to charge battery on 100% once per two weeks, or once per week its better and I should make time for it instead charge on 80%.
Another thought provoking video, and comments from other viewers. I have a 2021 M3 SR plus MIC with LFP. Range at new was 422km and now after 33,500km shows 401km at 100%. Thats 5% loss. Most charging is done at home via 7kW outlet using Tesla mobile connector to 100%. Tesla app charge stats show 11% supercharging and 28% other. I don’t drive regular trips so milage varies, eg some weeks I may do just a few km and others 100s. My question is about whether I should charge weekly regardless of SOC as opposed to waiting until SOC is below 50%? Also i have a small capacity rooftop solar system so it cannot supply enough to charge fully in one session. For best battery care should I just charge to 100% and consider the solar contribution a small discount or just top up to 100% over a number of days to optimise the sloar power?
I have a 2022 Tesla Model 3 RWD with 77,618 miles. It has about 96% of its original 272 range when new. When charged to 100%, it shows 261 miles of range. It may improve after I get my home charger installed.
I have been charging my vehicle to 80% - 100% solely on Tesla Superchargers. I have changed it twice to 100%, once to 90% and once to 80% - note that I just purchased it used. I think the battery percentage will improve a few percent with daily level 2 charging. But we'll have to see if that is true. Based on my research, these batteries actually do better being charged every day. I am installing a Tesla Universal Wall Connector next week and so I will be able to experiment to find the best charging regimen.
It appears that the LFP Model 3 batteries should keep their range in the 95% area for at least 5 - 8 years. The LFP chemistry has superior longevity to anything on the market right now.
I want to point out that i dont think anecdotal loss of range comments are useful due to BMS wander (especially for LFP). The most accurate way to see your degradation without additional tools/apps is to discharge to 0-5% then immediately charge (ideally the fastest level 2 speed you can get) to 100%, then allow the car to sit at 100% for a couple hours. I doubt people are doing this when quoting their degradation numbers. The internal tool in service mode essentially does this, but i doubt people use the degradation test within service mode either...
I have some different question - do you think that it makes sense to charge Tesla Y LFP with... 1A only? I know it is super slow, but if I have not enough energy from PV this 1A is OK to balance IN/OUT of power to the network.
My Friend i got Tesla Model Y 2024 Dual Motor My charging daily like 22 miles one way both like 43 mile. Daily i charge Charging Spot ? Most important is the Amps daily charging ? plus thr range Gap of Charging ? My min 70% Max 80 % once every 2 months charge 100% at very low rate of charge from 5 Amps to 15 Amps
So any degradation ?
If from CATL is better quality than Panasonic using in the US.
I got 4% degradation of my 2023 LFP battery for a one year old car, with less than 7k miles. The car battery has never been pushed to low levels, and almost always charged at home.
Am I just unlucky? I used to have the car charged to 100% 2-3 times a week due to the Telsa recomendation to keep the limit at 100% and always plugged at home. Did this damage the battery?
I drive my MY every day and charge to 100 percent and with 400KM I have experienced a loss in range of .14%. Tesla is the 18th best car I have owned
They have to replace the battery twice in one week for my Tesla 2022 Model Y. I am at 85,000 and mostly use supercharger stations.
I have a m3 2022 lfp started with 438km now its 418km with 39xxx km so roughly 5%
My M3 2023 LFP went from 438 km to 430 km in 14xxx, looks like I’m heading the same direction
I have m3 rwd lfp, with 35k km. The range is 418km (new was 441km).Which means 5,3% degradation. I very rarely charge to 100%, most of the time charge up to 80% at home 10amps. Rarely use Superchargers with max to 85% charging.
If you charge to 100%, where does the regen current go? I would like to avoid brake usage. Why does Tesla recommend 100% when you can charge to less for daily use in city? Is 100% better than 80 or 90?
Excellent info
My model 3 rwd 23k miles shows 263 max, mostly supercharge
Thanks John
If you have an LFP battery and your daily commute is 100 miles so you have to plug it in every night, would you leave it set to 100% every day? Or 85% daily and then 100% once a week? For the long-term health of the battery? Asking for a friend...
Also: Tesla already limits the LFP to 90%, its float voltage is 3,54v per cell while 100% float voltage for LFP chemistry is 3,65v.
Wondering if driving habits load atmosphere/ temperature has an effect on degradation. Garaged kept, drive conservative 80 degrees
The Tessie app shows degradation of 3.1% after 37000km of driving on my 2022 Model Y RWD LFP. I follow the instructions from Tesla and charge to 100% at least once per week at home. Most of my charging is done at home, maybe 10% Supercharging. Original range estimate was 435km, now says 420km @ 100%. It seems to be degrading faster than I expected.
I just want a bidirectional-charge capable LFP M3 with 300+ miles of range at 75 mph. Please, Santa!
-22 Model 3, MIC with LFP here. After 50000 miles it has lost very little. In lower temperature/winter it gets maybe 350 km. I suppose that is predicted on average speed. Not motorway speed.
Interesting data, maybe I'm an outlier but I just hit 10k miles, according to Teslafi I'm at 262.91 miles range at 100%. the car new was 272 so i have lost 3.34% seems a little high. I charge to 90% almost every day and 100% once a week. wonder if im doing something wrong...
The seem quite accurate to other people
Your degradation will drop off at a certain point and then you will lose hardly any,
After 3 years and 20k miles with my 2021 Model 3 with nickel based batteries, I've lost 1.49% range. 344.62/349.82
I drove 35k miles on my 2022 Model 3 RWD. I charge regularly to 100%. My range is now 260 miles instead of 272 miles. Is this normal? Please advise
Manter entre 35% e 80% dura a vida toda ... Não importa ser de Nikel ou Fosfato de Lítio... Mas sim os ciclos e trocas químicas...
I think the last part is wrong 3.1v at 10% soc is pretty normal. The voltage drop is really steep at the end of the ocv curve. So I would guess it could and still end up at 2.5v at 0% soc. This can also be seen on spec sheets for lfp cells. 3.65v is solid max recommend voltage of the cell manufacturer for 100% soc. So I don't think Tesla really goes easy on the cells. Normally it's the opposite. Tesla is not known for keeping a lot of buffer.
Hi, Is it correct when I check my battery degradation, compering range when I picked up my TM3 LFP (439km) and now (428-431km)? Is it the same as in Tessie? I charge to 100% once per 2 weeks. I have got my car 10 months and 36kkm. Most often I charge my car between 20/30 - 70/80% like my previous car KIA eNiro 64kWh.
Which LFP battery has your car BYD or CATL and where was your car manufactered, berlin, china
@@boraimran The model 3 is not produced in Berlin so it will be built in China.
Does this also hold true regardless of what kind of LFP battery - I am thinking of Blade batteries and possibly others that I do not know about.
Our is 4 years old now and we don’t have any range degradation problem.
Just want to know can a LFP battery sit on 100% over night regularly?
My US made M3 02/2021 SR+ with NMC battery after 40000km lost 11% so what got better ? And I'm avoiding DC charging as much as possible charging on AC 4:1 at least! Charging daily to 75%, charging 1x or 2x per year tops to 100%. And perhaps 10x to 90%. Car is parked in a non heated garage.
You complained about this already. Maybe the issue is you not the car!
Hi, floating around YT looking for info on MY RWD LFP in the US. We are planning to order a MY RWD in early May 2024 and the Tesla sales advisor told me in an email the RWD in the US comes with the LFP battery. Can anyone confirm if they took delivery of a RWD MY in 2024 and did actually have the LFP battery? Want to trust the sales guy, but also want to verify. Very confusing when you do the research online with all sorts of different answers. Thanks much for any help.
Model Y RWD in USA has a nickel battery, not LFP. I am certain on this.
Thanks much. Would not be the first time a car salesman lied or did not have all the facts correct but this is quite frustrating for Tesla to be so ambiguous on such an important part of the car.
I have a 2023 Model 3 LFP battery with 38K miles on it and charge to 100% everyday because I drive for a living. At full charge i get 261 miles now vs 272 miles when I first bought the car. So I believe that's 3.75% degradation so far. Is that good or bad?
I don’t drive that much weekly (less than 125 miles) is charging once a week fine🤔
LFP charge kept at or near the sweet spot (50%) ie. Goldie Locks zone, for lower degradation and increased battery life: is this bogus or for real?