The Wheel of Time isn't just a book series. It's a relationship. It's a commitment. You learn to love the other not despite their flaws, but rather because of them.
It think this is the most accurate description I've heard. I absolutely recognise the flaws, but the overall story is worth it to me. Maybe not to everyone else though.
It's worth the boring for the exciting. I first read book 2 the great hunt in jail. then a couple years later found out my friend had all the books read them all about ten times now except for the last two they weren't out when i started reading. It's worth it though after the first few reads there are part's with the girls I skipped and also he tends to take ten pages to say what color a city's wall is lol. Awesome series though my favorite...@@blahanger4304
The best way to read WOT is to have already read it in high school and college. The series where "I can't stop now... I've already read eight books, for crying out loud!" should be a slogan.
I read every book in a 72 hour no sleep only stop to make coffee period, within the first seven days of release... Then after I would finish each new book I would re-read the entire series up to that point leisurely, chapter by chapter. I have now read the entire series about 10 times, but have read Eye of The World about 24 times.
I started questioning whether or not I should continue the series when I finished book 5, The Fires of Heaven. IMO that was the first book that was really a struggle to get through; it could've easily been two or three hundred pages shorter. But I felt stuck because, in my eyes, I'd read nearly 4,000 pages of story and didn't want to stop part-way through. I'm thankful to say that yes, the journey was very much worth it--the last four books are especially fantastic. But yes, the slog (books 8-10) is real...
@@user-ss9pu9kb9b i think literally everyone who read them felt this way. I skipped multiple chapters as i got to the later books. It just seemed like 90% filler. Cashing in. That's why the last book was so brilliant.. despite.. honestly... just being trope ridden fan service. Let's be honest... Rand should have died or faced the fate of Katniss in the hunger games books (NOT the nice disney ending of the movies)
I tried telling a friend that you learn to like the slog from about the fifth reread on, and she accused the book of abusing me and said I had Stockholm syndrome.. 😬
@@Trisjack20 TBF the idea of "The Slog" is kind of a holdover from when the pace of publication slowed a little. So when a book did come out where " *nothing happened* " fans got a little pissy. It's funny that we used to think a 3 year wait was something to gripe about. Hello GRRM, Rothfuss and Lynch!
@@pintpullinggeek I hear that, though I was a fan in that era reading when Winters Heart and Crossroads were being published. I am just a different kind of fan/reader I guess from many. Still I absolutely agree with you that the wait totally contributed to these sentiments and that the internet was starting to really take off and things like theorising and fan world wide interaction was a thing in a way it couldn't have been in the 80s.
I have made this same joke. Every fantasy series has these caveats, WoT somehow has ALL OF THEM. "It's my favorite series, you just gotta power through the first 4 or 5 800 page books to get to where it gets good but from there its fantastic. Except there's some disagreement on how Sanderson finished the last 3, but up to that point its really well put together. Although some people get lost in books like 7, 8, and 9 because its just a bunch of drawn out troop movements but aside from that, it's super compelling." And you're left there counting on your fingers like "So books 6 and 10 are good??" And one dude in the back will go "Ah no, f*** book 10!"
When I re-read the series before the show came out I actually didn't find the slog to be bad at all. The only slog bits to me are chapters dealing with Faile, easily the character I like the least in the series. When I was a kid and reading the series as it was published I do remember the slog books being a bit disappointing because I had to wait so long for each book to publish that them being not quite as good as the others stood out more. But when just reading through the entire series, and probably having a more grown up understanding, they went by fast. If anything my complaint would be that the series could have been longer revealing more of the world through other characters.
I was gonna say no way there's a more boring character than Perin (he's got better at times but still), and I come into the comments and see Gawyn. Yup nvm Gawyn is the worst.
@@Steak-Knifethis is it. I literally hated her in book 1, and didn't care about Lan at all. Then, all of a sudden, 14 books later, I'm yelling "tashar malkier! The golden crane flies for tarmon gai 'den!" "All of a sudden" was 6 months, but still. The scene where lan surrenders to Nayneaves manipulations to make sure he doesn't die, I was tearing up at work and had to make sure no one saw me.
On the 2nd to last book of WoT. Finally decided to give it a shot after hearing about how great Jordan's writing is. I've never had so many problems with a series that I'm overall enjoying. Whack
@@GeekShiek I'm not gonna spoil anything, but Wheel of Time has the single best ending to a fantasy series, ever. It was so good that I started a reread couple of weeks after I finished it, because I was getting withdrawal syndromes lol
Mans got that main character energy in writing. Manages to fail successfully throughout his entire career. Hell, he even died and STILL finished the series.
I always feel like WoT should be an anime above anything else. Characters oscillating between deeply complex and 2 dimensional children for comedy scenes? Check An absurd amount of “oh I couldn’t do this, it wouldn’t be proper!” then sticking up noses? Check General heavy emphasis on internal dialogue and rationale? Check Weird freaking dream world stuff that no show is ever going to nail down properly? Mmmhmmmm Etc etc
@@e443productions9 The “One Piece is the WoT of manga” jokes are played out but honestly pretty accurate from what I can tell only being about halfway through book one.
I wouldn’t say that. That applies to something where it is blatantly obvious that dropping out is the best option. With this series, dropping out is the worst thing to do-because of what you’ll be missing out on.
@@user-ss9pu9kb9b Do you genuinely think whatever payoff is waiting beyond book 9 for me is worth being bored to tears by eight of those nine preceding books?
This is SOOOOO TRUE!!!! I have a boring job and need to listen to something to keep my sanity. So I listened to all of it. The first time through was rough. There are so many names of people and places that i had trouble keeping track of what people were talking about and what was happening. Around book 8 I finally looked up a map and that helped tremendously. The ending was so good though, and the world so rich that I did decide I liked it after I finished. I listened again when the show was about to premier and the 2nd time through was astounding. It's far and away my favorite series, but telling people it's better the second time through is a tough sell
I had a similar experience reading for the first time; I had some frustrations, but overall enjoyed the experience, and the ending blew me away. Will I read it a second time? I'd like to, but time will tell if I can do so. There are so many great books to read...
I agree! The second time through is actually better. But it is crazy! Think about telling somebody that the second time through the 14 books of 800 pages each... You just can't do it.
Holly crap. Im about 50% of book 13 and I cannot wait to read the ending and be done with the series. I am liking it, dont take me wrong but it was exhausting. So having to go back and read it A SECOND time, I think I couldnt do it. There is so much else to read that I couldnt read the whole thing again. It's that good on second read? I guess you can skip passages and books even as you already know what happened.
I am on my tenth or 12th reread. I mostly do the audiobooks now. But I have read them in some fashion every year for over ten years. It’s been a while and I just came back to them. And they honestly do just get better, because they are a lot less confusing when you know the books. Like I catch a lot more small stuff and there genuinely is a lot of it. Idk. I know it’s silly. But this world is just so good. I am so excited. I just keep doing the thing where I quietly scream “AHHHHH”. Cause I like these books so much. One thing about such a big series. Imo, it’s increases the reread ability, because there’s a lot more to remember. .
@@agachill5000 oh *relax,* Mr Chillax, drink some juice, wave hello to your neighbour, life is beautiful why spend time being hateful. no question mark as it's rhetorical, do not reply to me, put your phone down, do some stretches, open the windows it's spring, have a nice bubble bath and listen to an album you really really enjoy, have a good hearty supper.
@@iamfishmindfunny how you recommend people do the exact opposite of what you did. And it's the internet- if you don't want people to reply to you don't leave condescending comments.
I love people saying "It takes 3 books for the books to get good and then it's great for 3/4 books, sucks for 4 and then the final book is amazing" it sold me to the series
This is why I just fall down WoT wiki rabbit holes or smile and nod while watching WoT videos like a supportive but completely out of touch mom listening to her kid explain what a TikTok trend is instead of reading the books
Aarrrgh! Read the dang books! Or don't, it's honestly a huge waste of time. But you'll be kicking yourself for not having read it earlier. But you'll hate reading some parts of it. But read them, they're great!
I love the Wheel of Time overall, especially the magic system. But yeah it has some problems. I do think the first 5-6 books are amazing though. Thats what gets you hooked to slog through the next couple. Also I loved the unanimous "NO!" about watching the show...because yeah. No.
A friend of a friend literally gave me the 14 1000 page books line. 10 years later I picked it up loved it for 5 books petered off after 8 and now another 4 years later. The time has come to actually finish. Probably! Can't remember the last 3 books so we're starting from the top
Nerdy Nightly is doing a book club for WoT, they just got through the “slog” I would highly recommend watching/listening to them as you go through the series, especially during the slog
I Agree with Connor join a book club that's doing it online or podcast .. depending on where you are at least one is on that book 😅 way of the leaf, wheel takes and wheel reads are all about at the same point you are ... I'm doing the nerdy nightly one too but it's about to start knife of dreams
I went through similar, pushed through, it's worth it. My guide to the Slog: Book 6 is a good book, great book if you pick up on building tension to awesome ending. Book 7 isn't as good, it's basically diluted version of the good stuff. Book 8 is frustrating, doesn't feel really complete. Book 9 has a good 2nd half, real stuff happens. Book 10 (Crossroads of Twilight) is the only one that's outright bad, Jordan referred to it as "a failed experiment". Feel free to skim, skip parts or just read a summary. Just get through it, why? Because Book 11 (Knife of Dreams) through 14 AMOL are as good as anything else in the series - my favorite book is 4, but 14 is competitive because of the amount of satisfying conclusion you get. Overall, if you like fantasy, it's very worth it and I hate to see a bad 1 1/2 books (first half 9, all of 10) keep people from a great 4 other books. And I love talking about them with people, so the bigger the population of readers there are, the more I can do that.
I read to book 11 or 12... where Jordan turns a corner and starts developing the main plot again. The shock of being reintroduced to the main plot pulled me out of the series. I just couldn't believe he'd be able to wrap up all the subplots in a satisfactory way, and I was angry that I had spent so much time getting invested in plots that probably weren't going to go anywhere. I still haven't finished the series. Maybe I should believe in Sanderson more, but there's a part of my heart that is just too wary.
One of my favorite fantasy series ever. It also sucks. I'll proudly recommend people read cosmere books like mad, but this video kinda made me realize why I can love this series and never willingly recommend it to someone unless they're already elbow deep in the cosmere and need a break lmao
@@DandDgamer His wot books are very good considering the circumstances, but I think most WoT fans will tell you, that RJ probably would have done a better job. He "fixes" some things, mainly the pacing, but I believe that this is mostly due to the fact that he is writing the end of the story, so naturally a lot of things happen. I did appreciate that there wasn't that much focus on necklines anymore though.
It's got more A+ Fantasy stuff than any other single series. Part of that is because it just has more stuff (Malazan is longer, I have MORE problems with Malazan - I don't count the Cosmere as a single series, The Stormlight Archive is a single series). All the other things drag down the overall score, so I can't give it more than an A- or B+. But if you have the time, the great stuff is definitely worth it.
"You shouldn't read it unless you're really determined to suffer through it" oh dear I felt that one. Made it a bit into book 10 my last attempt at reading the series 5 years ago and here I am trying again. Of course I'm starting over because maybe I forgot one of the definitely important side characters and scenes since I read it last and I just can't bear to miss anything.
It took me about a year to get throug them because I would get bored and not touch them for months, before coming back, getting completely sucked in, and reading an entire book in like 3 days. It got to the point where I was going to work on like 2 hours of sleep sometimes because I couldn't put them down haha. It's probably my favourite series ever, but this video is disturbingly accurate in describing how I recommend it to people.
Books 4-6 were so good (after solid books 1-3), but for me, despite some crazy events in books 7-10, I wouldn't recommend reading those in detail. Books 11-14 are (for me at least) back on that level the previous books had.
I think one of the reasons certain details are repeated so often is that the length of the books makes it hard for people to remember every detail. It might be worth starting near where you left off and figuring out/remembering things as you go. The books get better on a reread though so both options are good. But if you are going to reread most of the series you might as well finish it and then understand a lot more from all the easter eggs and foreshadowing put into the early books.
It took a long time to finish the series but I'll never forget the excitement of another book being released, or the hype I felt getting A Memory of Light, finally reaching the Last Battle. Also some really important stuff happens during the slog, mainly the end of Winter's Heart was so hype. Also I just loved the familiarity of Robert Jordan's writing, the beginning and ending of each book was just beautiful to me
“The Wheel of Time turns and ages come and pass, leaving only memory to become legend. Legend becomes myth, and myth is forgotten as the age that gave it birth comes to pass once more. In one age, called the third age by some, an age to come, an age long past, a strong wind rose in the west. It wasn’t the beginning, the wheel knew no beginning or end. But it was a beginning.” Perfect way to start every book and get me hyped, and Jordan writes climaxes to make even DBZ blush from ridiculous spectacle. The series has its flaws, but the things it does well it knocks out of the park
Something really. Important to keep in mind when reading the wheel of time is that Jordan plays with perspective so much it's easy to get caught up in thinking he's saying something that he isn't. Especially concerning men and women and what they're 'like'. On my 6th read thru and it's the contrast between these characters and their POV that helps makes things feel so rich.
Its almost like one of the points Jordan is trying to make about men and women is that neither has inherent flaws due to their gender and rather it’s just human flaws we choose to see more of in the opposite gender… Like, Elayne rants about Rand being stubborn while she digs her heels in even further which gets Rand to rant about her, neither realizing their own hypocrisy in calling all men/women stubborn. It’s frustrating and that’s the point, they’re both doing the same thing cause it’s a human issue and not a man or woman issue. Definitely won’t work for everyone, but I actually like how the series deconstructs these ideas both subtly and not so subtly as it progresses
I remember laughing when i saw the men giving relationship advice to perrin (let them get away with the small things. Then when its important and you out your foot down they'll be so suprised they just let you get your way) and then on bassically the next page the women give the exact same advice to the men. Admitly the rest of that book wasn't particularly great. I only keep reading because Brandon wrote the last 3 and i like him.
Also something I have to remind myself of: the main characters are teenagers. Even the oldest of the main 5 is only like 22. They're not emotionally mature or experienced with relationships. Every character is flawed, every character has bias. There are a lot of things that I came off very differently to me when I read the series in my twenties that now read very differently because I understand the characters point of view more, even if I disagree with it.
My boyfriend doesn’t understand why i read this series because he says i look like I’m having the worst time and I’m like, I am, but also, I really love it 😭
@@gilian2587 All of these colorful descriptions are hilarious and sound to me like a 20 something boyfriend trying to sell his GF on the idea of how enjoyable anal will be if she'll just get past all the pain.
I was bored of movies/games so I decided to pick up reading again. Jumped into the witcher, loved it and then decided to check out WoT. 13 months later I finished it...Man that was definitely an exhaustive journey. I didn't even realize till I was halfway through it that I had actually read the series before. Suddenly I had flash backs to 6th grade summer reading, and grabbing that massive EOTW book. Then all the memories of summarizing chapter after chapter, and typing the word Aei sedai more times then I can count...Boy did school suck the joy out of that series, how I could've forgotten such an amazing series completely. Come to think of it, school is what sucked the joy out of reading entirely. So glad I came back to this series though, so many memories, conversation with my 7th grade teacher about how she thought I was like Mat cauthon and me getting offended 🤣.
@@estherkasprzyk3823 Instead of being able to Enjoy the books as a whole and just read at my own pace, I had deadlines for each and every chapter. I had to Dissect and analyze each chapter to create summaries for them. I began to see Reading as a Chore/Work instead of a Relaxing Hobby.
Oddly enough, this is exactly how I feel about The Wheel of Time and I bounced off it during "the slog" and never finished it. I think I got to Book 7? Or 8? I honestly can't remember anymore. Every time the crazy and obsessive part of my brain says, "But I should re-read it, it's been like 20 years, plus I get 3 Sanderson books at the end now," the more rational part always replies with, "what, and put myself through all that *again*? Thanks, but no."
That ending, "maybe I'll just watch the show", "NO!!!".🤣 I have had that exact last 30 seconds of conversation with several friends about the Silmarillion and the Rings of Power lol.
This speaks to me. I recently finished the 4th book, and man they are not easy to get through. But on the other hand, I am starting to actually care about the characters, and the world, and I already have book 5 on my TBR shelf. I have decided to push through, but I'll probably only be reading the books on vacation (when my reading speed goes up 400%)
I highly recommend at least trying to get through book 6 because it has one of the best endings however when this video says that the books get kind of slow and boring they're talking about 7 8 9 and 10. They're not the worst and important things do happen but it is really a relief when you get to book 11 and it really picks up a pace from there till the end.
If you thought Book 4 was hard to get through... 😬. 4 was my favorite of the entire series. "The slog" varies by definition, but some combination of 7, 8, 9, and 10 are included. Pretty sure 10 is almost universally regarded as the worst of it. Knife of Dreams was great, and the Sanderson books had some janky parts (his Mat voice was off to me, and there are some other Sandersonisms in there that jar me), but the storytelling was fabulous, and it was a satisfyingly huge end to such a huge endeavor. While I agree with the point of the video, on balance if someone were specifically asking for fantasy recommendations, WOT would be the top of my list!
@@moleman1976 Hey Book 4 and 5 are in my top 3! Only because a certain group of peepz finally get to shine! And as someone coming from similar background I gobbled it all up. Aviendha is my favorite character besides Mat. 😍
Funny because of the fandom :) However I feel like I should point out I don't really have any of the common issues with it. It is my favourite fantasy series in 30 years of reading though Stormlight Archive is challenging it these days. So just by way of offering a different perspective than the majority of comments... I love the way the characters are done, adore the depth of description of things like accents, clothes, minor characters etc. Found a lot of the masculine/feminine interplay and contrast related to people, expressions and events I have witnessed and met in my own life. Loved the magic system and the long far reaching plots and delighted that he didn't spend every page on something essential to the plot. Partially that was because I read it as it was being written so I loved that there were so many people who had so much time I didn't know who would be a dark friend, who would survive or die, what would become vital to main storyline and what would turn out to only really matter for a chapter. Also I am someone who does not feel 'the slog' people mention. All series have stronger and weaker entries. Is Crossroads of Twilight the Shadow Rising... no it isn't, it is not as good. Do I still enjoy it? Yes, does the plot move forward in it, yes are the characters further developed in it... yes. Shrug This series is long and it is slow burn and for some fantasy readers that is absolutely what they are looking for. When I recommend it I ask this question: Are you into detailed world building epic fantasy? If the answer is yes, I tell them to read Wheel of Time, if their answer is no, I suggest they pick a different series.
I agree with pretty much all of this, and I also found the slog to not be that big of a deal. Back when I read this series, I was the sort of person who always needed to be reading something - I carried around these books in my pocket the way most people carry around their phones - so the series was great in that it ensured I always had something to read, even if in retrospect there were a lot of things I think could have been done better. But yeah, this video was mainly about the fandom itself and the tendency of some people to over-emphasize the negative elements of the series.
it is a great litmus test, if the person doesn't like the books that's fine. But if the reason they don't like the books is the female and male interplay they fail. Interacting with that kind of people is a waste of time. May the creator shelter them.
I’m with you here. Only on listened through book 4 so far, but I’ve been loving every bit of it! And the male/female interplay really is true to life-as least as far as I have been able to observe. At the very least, you can’t say that Jordan falls into the trappings of 2-dimensional characters!
i typed out a response to this and realized I'm the person in this vid. long story short she gets worse but its worth it. Also book 4 is my favorite so enjoy it! (it gets more epic as it goes on but book 4 hits all the notes *chefs kiss*)@@NevetsTSmith
@@NevTheDerangedBut especially Egwene "Think Of The Dumbest Thing You Could Possibly Do In Any Given Situation And Then Go Six Steps Dumber, And Also Be Insufferable To Anyone That Has To Save Your Stupid Behind" Al'Vere.
This is me recommending Dark Souls to people lol. "One of the best games I've played, I recommend it 100%" "But also there are literal unfinished areas, and total slog in the second half you have to get through to beat the game"
@@genericallyentertaining The series isn't insanely hard, it's more that it has a unique style of gameplay you need to adapt to. And you need to be fine with dying a bunch of times as you learn the game, its areas, and its bosses. It's more about perseverance and realizing that it's not a matter of "can I do it" but "how many tries will it take me to do it".
@genericallyentertaining The game series isn't actually all that hard. It's a slowed down action RPG. Think Final Fantasy 7R, Bayonetta, or Devil May Cry, but the combat is more methodical. I'd argue one of its closest cousins is the monster hunter series, which is also slower and requires committing to actions. If you try to run in like Devil May Cry you'll notice that your character is slower in movement and attack speed and that the stamina system restricts the amount of actions you can do without a break. When you make mistakes and get hit you'll notice the damage is significantly more punishing than those games. But on the flip side, enemy attacks are way more telegraphed, your dodge roll has way more forgiving invincibility on it, and most enemies die quickly. Basically the game is hard if you approach it like other games in the genre but fairly reasonable if you meet it on its level and take things slowly and more planned out.
"If you didn't enjoy it how come you displayed it? It takes like 1/10 of your library. Just donate them" "Some people display thier diplomas. This is my 'I got through WOT' diploma."
I genuinely skipped a Crown of Swords as neither my library or local book shops had it and as far as I could tell only like 3 actually important things happened.
I am currently on AMoL after pushing through the series for the last 2 months straight. I have absolutely loved it, even though it does have it's flaws. But yes, I can see why it is hard to recommend, lol. Though switching between reading and listening to the audiobooks has helped a lot with keeping it fresh and getting through some of the repetative parts.
I love the audiobooks so much, even when they forget how a name was pronounced or correctly the pronunciation mid book. No, I especially love that. It's my favorite way to "read" this series.
I always hesitated to even mention it to anyone. The reality is that if they can't get through a basic trilogy, they have no attention span for this series. LOL
I wish the problem were my attention spam so I just could go slow. The problem are the MC’s. If the second book starts telling me that Ran, Mat, and Perran were eaten by trollocs and now the story is gonna be about Egwene and Nynaeve, I’m 100% in. They are far more compelling and upfront, and far more interesting than anyone else in the book (Yes, I’m talking to you too, Aragon’t. Your background is epic, not you) But if I have to suffer one more chapter of those unbearable clowns of the boys of Emont, I’ll go insane.
I have finally realized that when a movie/TV show is made from a book, treat it as the visual Fan Fic because they will rewrite the story when they do the screen version. So forget you have read the book(s), get your popcorn and enjoy the show!
I think the problem is that Jordan is trying to juxtapose the characters immature starting selves to their grown selves as a grand metaphor for maturing and growing in wisdom. The problem with that on the first read through is that you don't know the grown characters, so their immaturity/inexperience is INCREDIBLY frustrating at times
I had no idea why people liked Mat so much when reading the first two books. I heard about how great he was from a friend, and thought less of him for a while. At least he became the Mat we know and love by book 3, however.
thats one of the key things I liked about the books. my first books where whatever I found on the floor of our closet growing up some scifi stuff and later read some TSR dnd stuff. But everyone in all those their personality were current and static as if everything were taking place within a year's time or a weeks. also read dune and lotr. I liked the hobbits journey and growth but the key thing about wheel of time which I'd read after that was how the characters grew over a long duration of time. the feeling that long passages of time is actually passing.
As someone who's never read WoT, it sounds very much like the same kind of fandom that Kingdom Hearts has. You absolutely fall in love with the first few games that are legitimately good, and then as the series progresses more and more problems start piling and it gets weirder, more convoluted, and goofier, up to the point where it almost seems that the series itself is determined to make you hate it, but for whatever reason you persist and learn to fall in love with the things you hate about it just as much as the things you love about it, because those times when it DOES hit, it still hits really hard.
Also, you can even see it in the comments here, people don't agree on which parts are "the slog". If you prefer action over intrigue, there's a good chance you won't find much of WoT very interesting. This is also a big source of the split on whether Sanderson did a good job finishing the last books: his pacing is much, much faster than Jordan's, which I found refreshing, but his voicing of the characters was off and they all lost much of their subtle characteristics. It was really clear during any war/battle scenes or discussions that Jordan served in the military and Sanderson did not, for instance. That matters for some people; for others, it isn't noticeable. I guess the takeaway is, WoT is big and few people like it has to offer. Many people like of what it offers, though.
Don't listen to the haters, give the show a chance. It fixed the biggest issues I have with the books. It's not perfect but it's better than reading a Wikia or summary videos.
Only reason I’m reading it is cause Michael Kramer and Kate Reading do the audiobooks and I just finished all of Brandon Sanderson’s cosmere and need more of that man’s voice pumped into my ears.
I only made it through around 300 pages of Eye of the World (sometime after a bath at the inn? Lan and Rand and the gang traveling through a forest? a second Trolloc attack?) before I tapped out BUT I'm sure that's my readerly failing and Robert Jordan was a brilliant innovator of the epic fantasy series! Now I'm keen to see how I fare with Malazan *nervous laugh* This video was really well made, great job and keep it up with your channel!!
Malazan is very good, but it is NOT an easy read. If you found WOT hard going you may find your tastes lie elsewhere. What series have you really enjoyed reading?
All joking aside I am 6 books in and will definitely finish it. It has some if the coolest stuff in fantasy ever mixed with boring stuff at times. But I totally get this video! It's so true!
I read the entire series so I could see what the big deal was about WoT, but I pretty much disliked all of it and found it a waste of my time. But now when I say I’ve read the whole series and dislike it, people come back with “well you must actually like it otherwise you wouldn’t have finished”. I literally can’t win lol.
Pretty much my experience. When I tell people I only finished so that I could confirm that it is awful, they act confused. It's a pretty simple concept.
Yeah I took a break around 60% into the 3rd book like 2 weeks ago and am kind of putting off continuing it, day by day. It's... it's not even that it's not interesting, it kind of is, but it is simultaneously interesting and dreadfully boring at the same time. And I've rarely read a series where so many of the primary *and* secondary characters are so unlikable.
Amazing description of the series. Totally on point in every way. Nerdy Nightly just finished Crossroads of Twilight so they are exhausted by the slog. I can’t wait for them to finish the rest
The WoT feels like a D&D campaign that had a very defined arc at first but then new players keep joining so the DM felt like he needed to add in new encounters to accommodate them so they don’t feel left out
I'm a 57 year old professional, I should be annoyed by this, instead I'm laughing. I need more videos please. This is your favorite series, then why so few videos? Thank you for making me laugh today 😊
Lol. So I've only read Eye of the World at this point, but I was actually really surprised by how Jordan handled his female characters in that book. Like, they actually had their own plots outside of Rand and I appreciated that. That said, I did listen on audio so I probably missed a bunch of shit. At some point, I'll get around to rereading it and continuing on w the series.
I’m 50 years old - I read it in real time as it was published. That’s a 23 year investment - and at the time he died no one knew if there would ever be an ending.
Watched this video when it came out, and now I’m actually starting the series. Starting reading on monday and will probably be finished eye of the world by tomorrow. this’ll be a weird journey
I didn't experience the slog on my first read. I was running to Borders getting the books 2 at a time for months. I was eating them and couldn't get enough. I started just after RJ passed away and I wanted to stop because it wouldn't be finished but i could not stop. You can complain about Brandon all you want, but i am so thankful for get an ending.
I just finished Towers of Midnight yesterday so only one book left to go (yes I've read New Spring already). On the one hand I look forward towards a possible reread because of all the hints and foreshadowing I might recognize but on the other hand it took me so long to read the entire series (I'm a rather slow reader and my pace even slowed down towards the end) that I can't imagine spending that much time on reading the same books again anytime soon.
The wheel of time has that particularity that every re-read makes you discover new things and love the series and its characters and world more. I'm well past my 10th read through, probably somewhere near the 15th, depending on how you count (although fewer read through for the last few books), and I still pick up nuggets I didn't find previously. Many have said that, while the first read is great, the second is the best.and it is a series that never ceases to amaze.
I’m a big asoiaf and lotr fan, so naturally a few years ago I wanted to give wot a shot. Got about halfway through the first book, found out there was like a billion of them and decided I was good on that. Also didn’t really help that the dude who suggested it for me also basically spoiled Rand’s entire storyline, so that was just great.
I finished the third book recently and was like "oh man this took a while to get any amount of ok so far I'm not sure I want to continue but I also want to see how it ends." I'll end up getting into the next book soon. Also, thank you for the immediate NO about the show, I thought I was crazy when I didnt see nearly enough hate for it.
Is there any fan edit of this book series which cuts out the problematic parts to reduce the slog and improve the pace, like how some movie series or anime series get fan edits. I started watching the TV show and it's mostly meh, but I can sense there might be a lot of good world building and story telling in the books, but I don't think I have what it takes to finish a book series this long. The longest series I have actually finished is Ian M Banks The Culture series and it's 10 books, would the wheel of time be a similar level of reading to that I wonder ?
I've read the first 4 or 5 books. I'm going to say what nobody else does - I think the TV show is significantly better. Yes, I know the big logically flaw in the first season but I can overlook that because 95% of the filler was cut.
Is the show that bad? I remember Brandon Sanderson talking about it and quite liking it, while also giving criticism. Although he also worked on the show as far as I heard, so who knows if his praise of it is 100% legit.
If you want accuracy, it didn't happen. If you want a fairly okay stab at getting the story across it does it decently. Some events are out of order and somethings that happen. . .don't happen in the books and have led to questions.
He consulted on it, but wasn't involved in production. He's very kind with his criticisms, but if you listen closely, I don't think he was very satisfied with the end product.
The show is actual trash, the first season was supposed to be based on the first book and they ruined so many of the best plot points and what they replaced it with wasn’t even compelling or made sense. I kept thinking “let’s see where they go with it could turn interesting” they always did something worse rather than tying it all together
The Wheel of Time is the Honeymooners without the humor because humor would have taken time away from describing every stitch on every article of clothing. But the scene when Rand backhands Codswollop around a room almost makes the whole thing worthwhile.
Perhaps the best mistake of your life. The most rewarding ending of any fantasy series. But getting there might make you want to throw the books out the window. Just keeping going. It's worth it.
“I gave it up several times before my first time through.” FIRST TIME? Fourteen books? I got to book six. Nothing happened for hundreds of pages. I gave up. The Amazon show isn’t as bad as the fans say.
I have heard three things about Wheel of Time that has made me swear it off completely despite owning the entire series: "This 14 book series only gets really good at around book 6." "Each book is around 800 pages." and "There are no bit players in this series. There are over one hundred named characters, and all are important." All these phrases are just deterrents towards me reading it.
You wool headed sheep herder, recommending wheel of time is women's circle business! On a non joking note, wot has one of the biggest reading slogs I can remember but I do think that it also has one of the biggest finales/payoffs of a series. Its also hilarious that some of the most epic moments of the series are hidden in some of these slogs. Now back to reading something less grindy like Malazan...
finished the memories of light today... WHAT A FUCKING RIDE THIS WAS. A lot to love and a lot to hate. You can love a characther and hate it at the same time, throught their actions throw out the series. Although there are a bit of gripes, like the "WHY DONT THEY JUST TALK ABOUT IT!!!" like a certain triangle of tavareen having certain powers and they dont tell to, at least, each other? they tell other people sure, but not to each other? 8,5, almost 9/10. please read it but prepare your anus
@@genericallyentertaining about the ending, like ending... i dont like the "20 years later" trope, but i feel it needed a 24/48h later epilogue. So, an epilogue to the epilogue xD. I understand the funeral was the best way to end the series, but i needed to see and POV of a certain hot-tempered aes sedai mourn the loss of her best friend, not a throw away line of her in the eyes of one of the boys. I wanted to see the former maiden, forced to be a wise one but still proud of what she once was, acknowledge the fact that her feet are fucked up, and see her tell the news to one of her mentors of how the mentor's husband fell. And i wanted to see both of the non dragon reborn ex tavereen also mourn the death of their friend... expecially one who has a ideologic conflict ahead of him with his empress wife about the nature of that same friend. the book is 1013 pages long... would it be so bad to make it 1023?
@@AzoiatheCobra There was supposed to be the Outrigger trilogy that dealt with the world in the aftermath, but Jordan had only written a line about it, so there was nothing else to go on.
I always interpreted the men/women talk as an expression of saidin and saidar manifest through the pattern. They oppose each other, but also need and love each other. Plus there are several characters who express "masculinity" and "femininity" in unconventional ways, that as a queer person it was a very fascinating perspective on gender
Hey! That's pretty much how I view it, too! So, pls no spoilers for beyond book 6, but... It's the reason why Thom is my favorite character, and is such a masterpiece of writing. Since he's so forgiving and kind, he serves as a bridge between Saidin and Saidar. Throughout books 4-6 he often communicates between the men and Nyneave and Elayne, keeping harmony. I think Thom, as a wizened old man, is meant to represent the balance of Saidin and Saidar in one being. He is the yin and the yang. I think it's symbolized in his juggling. Seamlessly, he weaves separate conflicting parts into one harmony. I find that so beautiful for his character.
@antoniojuarez2287 Thank you!! Eek, That sounds so exciting! XD You've made me want to read them even more!! I have a theory with Thom and Moiraine that I'm hoping will turn out correct, so I'll have to wait and see!😜
On the subject of juggling -- there's an old series by a fellow named Robert Silverberg released in 1980 where the first book is called Lord Valentine's Castle. It's a hybrid fantasy/science fiction series; I would highly recommend it.
Saidin and Saidar and the men’s and women’s views of each other really reflect Jordan’s views on male/female relationships based on stuff I read back in the day on his blog. I remember him saying he basically let his wife have her way for most things but every few months he’d pick something and put his foot down on it often for no reason if nothing he absolutely wanted had come along.
Agree to disagree that's how. In my opinion there are 3 just okay books and every other book is excellent with 2 of those being 2 of the best books ever written. So obviously I think the quality is incredibly high.
@@davidbowles7281 That is an interesting take and as you have said 'you do you'. Still, I hope you can see on an objective level that many many people (it's a series that sold 90 million plus copies and is still selling now despite the author being dead and the series being finished) has some especially significant merit.
Halfway through the first book and Mat just fell for the obvious, cliche trap of a creepy old man offering him cursed treasure. It's actually kind of endearing how cliche parts of it are (like how them leaving Two Rivers until now has just been Fellowship of the Ring, again). Hopefully it gets better in terms of being unique, which I can already see bits and pieces of, but even if it doesn't I literally just have it on as an audiobook at my brainless job, so I don't *need* anything special.
Might be a hot take, but I actually really enjoyed the constant male v female stereotypes/comparisons thrown in throughout the series. Especially how Rand, Mat and Perrin kept saying how each other were better with women then them. Call me cheesy but I like little details like that
This is exactly how I talk about Wheel of Time. I kind of feel like I need to give a disclaimer so that a)the person will know what they're getting into, and b) they know that I do indeed notice/disapprove of the more problematic aspects.
It really is better on rereads, and the reason is that the author can be really subtle at times, sprinkling in foreshadowing and hints that clever readers could put together but most people miss. New information can change the context for something you read several *books* ago and completely change how you see that event or character. So when you are rereading it, you start seeing what are essentially easter eggs, things that you missed, new connections, subtle foreshadowing, entire minor plotlines… its probably better on a reread than the first read through. This level of entwined foreshadowing and world-building makes the book feel like a masterpiece. Little details of what a character does combine with tiny details of a culture to hint at true motivations that could be revealed books later. However, the style is outdated. Jordan was very verbose, and not afraid to let sections be slow paced. Part of this is what makes it good, but it can also make it tough for a reader used to modern fast paced styles of writing. In addition, WoT was wildly influential so almost every tired trope you are sick of show up in this series, usually done or subverted surprisingly well. But a lot of people see the tropes and tine out or lose interest. For example, the series is ultimately a study on what would really happen when some poor rural folk are thrust into a chosen one save the world scenario, the type of trauma that would cause and the interpersonal and political conflicts that ensue. Nowadays people give writers the advice to cut any scene that can be cut and to keep things fast paced so that you can keep the attention span of readers used to tiktok. This is the opposite of that. And that is before getting to the flaws of the series. And there are flaws. Its a 14 or so book long series with over 160 PoV characters (sic). The author was a hell of a wordsmith, but no one is perfect. Quality of different aspects may change, etc. But more importantly, the series is long and the focus and content changes as the characters do. Not every plotline appeals to every reader and some get more screentime than others. There will be sections of some books that the reader does not find appealing. Parts where the pacing drops significantly and the focus becomes subtle political maneuvering, parts where the characters you hate are at the forefront of the story. The so-called “slog” sees a few plotlines slow down and a shift toward setup and political maneuvering, and is remembered as worse than it is because the books were coming out 3 years apart when those came out. But even I have some legitimate gripes about sections of those books. (I personally think they land better on rereads so its hard for me to judge the quality for a first time reader. Especially since I read it while young. ) And speaking of styles that are not modern, the characters are written as flawed humans rather than inspiring paragons of virtual. They all have flaws. Some overcome them, others do not. One character in particular is introduced literally beating an old man with a stick and takes about a dozen books to become even a remotely decent person. This is one of the major characters whose PoV shows up throughout the series. The PoV is interesting, but can be off-putting to some as the character is absolutely obnoxious. And to top it all off, the author died several books away from the ending and it was finished by someone else. Which created some controversy but props to Brandon Sanderson and the authors and his wife for ensuring the fans got an ending to this story. So long story short, its a masterpiece with some flaws and an outdated style that is definitely not for everyone.
The first book is way different from the rest of the series, though. You could read the first book only and it still feels like a complete story since it follows the standard heroes journey. It's the rest of the series where Jordan develops more of his own style
@@chestersnap I do agree with you. For example Dragon Reborn definitely set the series apart from others for me personally and started making its way to being one of my favorite series as I continued from there
This is SO TRUE. Three pages of Matt walking around a tower in book 4. And the sexism. NOOOOOO. And also, ONE LANGUAGE for an entire complex world? Seriously?
As far as the language goes, you're not looking at it from the right perspective. All the cultures in The Wheel of Time are fragments of what was a globe spanning socialist utopia. The New Tongue derived from the Old Tongue during the War of Power. Granted, after thousands of years language would realistically separate, but it's hardly the biggest suspend your disbelief thing in a high fantasy series.
@@justinalbin7272 I've been an anthropologist for 28 years (NOTE: not an academic, I work in applied anthropology - real world, heritage type work). For part of my career, I worked in linguistics-heavy government interpreting organisations. So I can talk about this at length and with some understanding of the mechanics of how languages change across time. Unfortunately, Jordan's world does not stand up lingustically, or even in comparison with other epic fantasy series. Even in hunter-gather cultures, languages change over relatively short periods of time, and become dissimilar enough that linguists conider them different languages. We can see this clearly in Aboriginal languages, with changes in languages like Warlpiri and Arrernte being documented in only 100 years! And don't even start me on the immense volume of literature out there on global languages like English - which would have be a handy model for Jordan creating a world in a post-monolinugal empire several thousand years in the past. In WoT, the world is detailed and historically deep enough that there simply should be different languages. To not have them without a really, really good reason (and Jordan supplies NONE) detracts from the overall experience of the books. Yes, Jordan created a world with an amazing, detailed history. But history alone does not equal language or culture.
@@Nettlewitch I already acknowledged that language would separate after thousands of years, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying there is an in universe explanation for why everyone speaks the same language. While it's not realistic, it's hardly the worst offender in a high fantasy setting. I can easily think of other more unrealistic aspects of his world building when compared to real life. For example, it's unbelievable that multiple kingdoms bordering the coast would defer to the Sea Folk for naval trade despite being technologically comparable to Renaissance Era civilizations and knowing that there were other lands beyond their continent. The only possible explanation for why none of them had a significant number of seafaring vessels of their own is that they realized that the Sea Folk's ships outstripped their efforts in ways they couldn't possibly hope to replicate. Accepting that, it's impossible to accept that the White Tower wouldn't have been convinced that the Sea Folk were hiding channelers from them. I think you're just hung up on the language due to your knowledge and clear passion for the subject. It's fantasy, none of it holds up under scrutiny compared to what we know of our own world. None that I've read at least. If you think The Wheel of Time stands out among fantasy for having unrealistic world building then maybe you could recommend something you feel does better. I love the world building in fantasy and Jordan is lauded for being one of the best in that regard. If you think there are others that do much better I'm sure they'd blow my mind.
@@justinalbin7272 Sorry for the short reply when you deserve a better one. My dad has just been admitted to hospital (he's 87) and it's not good news, so Im' going to have to bow out for now. Thanks for reading my comment and for your response.
When I first read wheel of time I was SUPER confused for the first 3 books because of how many names and locations were being thrown around (Also I listened to the audiobooks while doing other things AND I slept through a few snippets without realizing) and then around book 4 I got a grip on all the country names and people and by the end of the series I LOVED how it really felt like I understood and knew the culture of the WOT world.
This is so accurate 😂 I’m at book 6 and most of the time is just like background noise. Nothing happens and you just keep going like if it was the ad break on a movie, but then a scene actually moves the plot forward and you are like HOLLY SHIT WAAAAAT GIMME MOREEE and so you keep going 😂 I think i’m taking the attitude of just treating it like an episodic tv show, you just watch it to go trough the 8 seasons without desiring the end, just to fill the time.
100% agreed. Didn't know it was a thing until the online fandom made it a meme. I think now it is a self fulfilling prophecy.. kind of what is shown in the skit. People expect to dislike certain things about the series because they have been told to. As with most your mileage will vary. I absolutely loved the series and didn't have hardly any of the issues I know other readers had with it...
So very true! Wish I would have seen this a long time ago. I’m at the “I need to take a break” part of reading this series. It’s been a year! Guess I’ll try and finish?!
Robert Jordan is George Lucas. Let me explain. Just like Lucas he's an amazing story teller and an amazing world builder. . . but his writing leaves something to be desired. Lucas is the guy who gave us the force but he's also the same guy who gave us "I hate sand. . ." The Empire Strikes back is the best Star Wars film. . .it's also the one of the original 6 that Lucas had the least to do with because he set the story and the world building but he let someone ELSE write it and someone ELSE direct it. Jordan is an amazing story teller and an amazing world builder. . . but I wasn't the biggest fan of the way he wrote those books. . . .
I'm not there yet, but Brandon Sanderson wrote the last few books and those are allegedly the best ones in the entire series lol, so this analogy is very good actually
I just want to say... I hate sand... I really resonated with Anakin when he said it... totally feel the same way. Probably would feel even more that way if I'd grown up enslaved in the desert... I know you were making a real point and a sensible analogy but just wanted to show how as with anything your mileage will vary. I know some of the writing is cringe, some of it is for me, but I have been surprised at the bits that people have memed on. Anyway I flipping love the way RJ wrote, though his world building is even better so it is definitely my opinion speaking rather than objective facts :) I think it unlikely though that I am alone (On the RJ thing not the I hate sand comment) after all I doubt the 90 million copies and all the rereads are based on the world building alone. I am also a big Star Wars fan ( no surprises there right?) and I find it interesting that the three films Lucas was not involved in at all Episodes VII-IX are the most maligned of all, so maybe the mileage varies on Lucas as well) Ah creative subjectivity of taste and enjoyment eh?
@@tomwalker8944 Interesting. I'm on a hiatus after The Lord of Chaos since that was super boring for me and I stopped paying attention to the audiobook. Will continue when I have undivided attention since I know the slog is coming up and if I read it when I'm already on a book slump it's gonna be the end of me
@@e443productions9 TBH I've never understood why they call it "the slog" Because Rand isn't in them a lot? Beats me I prefer Mat and Perrin to Rand anyway lol.
As someone who read the first book and gave up, i relate to this video i guess. Plus I’ve heard so many people say this. I’m a Witcher fan though and we have our fair share of disclaimers like “some of the scenes translated poorly AND aged poorly” or “Yes some of the plot is a little forgettable, but it’s CHARACTER driven” etc.
The slog might’ve been a real thing as it was being written and released but now that it’s complete I truly don’t think it’s as bad as people make it out to be. There’s really only like one book that I would consider kind of grueling and that is Crossroads of Twilight.
I think Wheel of Time worked really well doing it as an audiobook. I could listen to it when commuting / doing chores, but it wasn't my main book either. I could speed up at the slower parts but then slow it down for the good moments. It was good enough that I wanted to keep reading it, but not so much that I would devote the limited amount of time I have to sit down and read books the traditional way. There are definitely some criticisms I have about it, but it was still a great story, and I'm glad I stuck through it.
The Wheel of Time isn't just a book series. It's a relationship. It's a commitment. You learn to love the other not despite their flaws, but rather because of them.
This feels the most likely from what I’ve heard of this series.
Meh got bored during book5 and gave up on the whole series, not that it;s bad it's just sooooo boooooring.
It think this is the most accurate description I've heard. I absolutely recognise the flaws, but the overall story is worth it to me. Maybe not to everyone else though.
It's worth the boring for the exciting. I first read book 2 the great hunt in jail. then a couple years later found out my friend had all the books read them all about ten times now except for the last two they weren't out when i started reading. It's worth it though after the first few reads there are part's with the girls I skipped and also he tends to take ten pages to say what color a city's wall is lol. Awesome series though my favorite...@@blahanger4304
Fortunately, I managed to get a divorce around Book 4 or 5. I feel sorry for those who got abused for another 10 books.
The best way to read WOT is to have already read it in high school and college.
The series where "I can't stop now... I've already read eight books, for crying out loud!" should be a slogan.
lmfao the most accurate thing ive ever read about wot
I read every book in a 72 hour no sleep only stop to make coffee period, within the first seven days of release... Then after I would finish each new book I would re-read the entire series up to that point leisurely, chapter by chapter. I have now read the entire series about 10 times, but have read Eye of The World about 24 times.
@@MrDarchangelomni and I am sitting here. 33 years old, having read 5 books in my entire life XD
I started questioning whether or not I should continue the series when I finished book 5, The Fires of Heaven. IMO that was the first book that was really a struggle to get through; it could've easily been two or three hundred pages shorter. But I felt stuck because, in my eyes, I'd read nearly 4,000 pages of story and didn't want to stop part-way through. I'm thankful to say that yes, the journey was very much worth it--the last four books are especially fantastic.
But yes, the slog (books 8-10) is real...
@@user-ss9pu9kb9b i think literally everyone who read them felt this way. I skipped multiple chapters as i got to the later books. It just seemed like 90% filler. Cashing in. That's why the last book was so brilliant.. despite.. honestly... just being trope ridden fan service. Let's be honest... Rand should have died or faced the fate of Katniss in the hunger games books (NOT the nice disney ending of the movies)
I tried telling a friend that you learn to like the slog from about the fifth reread on, and she accused the book of abusing me and said I had Stockholm syndrome.. 😬
I mean.... is she wrong tho?
I genuinely had no idea there was a slog until I got more involved with the online fandom.
@@Trisjack20 TBF the idea of "The Slog" is kind of a holdover from when the pace of publication slowed a little. So when a book did come out where " *nothing happened* " fans got a little pissy.
It's funny that we used to think a 3 year wait was something to gripe about. Hello GRRM, Rothfuss and Lynch!
@@pintpullinggeek I hear that, though I was a fan in that era reading when Winters Heart and Crossroads were being published. I am just a different kind of fan/reader I guess from many. Still I absolutely agree with you that the wait totally contributed to these sentiments and that the internet was starting to really take off and things like theorising and fan world wide interaction was a thing in a way it couldn't have been in the 80s.
@@Trisjack20 The 80s? EotW came out in 1990.
I have made this same joke. Every fantasy series has these caveats, WoT somehow has ALL OF THEM. "It's my favorite series, you just gotta power through the first 4 or 5 800 page books to get to where it gets good but from there its fantastic. Except there's some disagreement on how Sanderson finished the last 3, but up to that point its really well put together. Although some people get lost in books like 7, 8, and 9 because its just a bunch of drawn out troop movements but aside from that, it's super compelling."
And you're left there counting on your fingers like "So books 6 and 10 are good??"
And one dude in the back will go "Ah no, f*** book 10!"
How can you even mention book 10!
I've always was a fan of the troop movements lmfao
Man, book 4-6 was fire, books 7-9 were meh, fuck Crossroads, and the rest were balefire from the Choedan Kal
Hmm. I guess you never heard about Malazan?
When I re-read the series before the show came out I actually didn't find the slog to be bad at all. The only slog bits to me are chapters dealing with Faile, easily the character I like the least in the series. When I was a kid and reading the series as it was published I do remember the slog books being a bit disappointing because I had to wait so long for each book to publish that them being not quite as good as the others stood out more. But when just reading through the entire series, and probably having a more grown up understanding, they went by fast. If anything my complaint would be that the series could have been longer revealing more of the world through other characters.
The "I'm talking about Gawan" got me good lmao
made me legitimately cackle
He is the worst. And he had so much potential, but everything went to Hell for him as of him eating the idiot ball in book 6.
Gawyn is such a dumb Chad
I was gonna say no way there's a more boring character than Perin (he's got better at times but still), and I come into the comments and see Gawyn. Yup nvm Gawyn is the worst.
So glad someone comment this, I listened to that sentence multiple times and every time only heard "Gollum" 😂
"Who are your favorite characters in WoT?"
"The map and glossary by far"
nah bruh, Nynaeve obv
It just took the whole damns series for me to realize
@@Steak-Knifethis is it. I literally hated her in book 1, and didn't care about Lan at all.
Then, all of a sudden, 14 books later, I'm yelling "tashar malkier! The golden crane flies for tarmon gai 'den!"
"All of a sudden" was 6 months, but still. The scene where lan surrenders to Nayneaves manipulations to make sure he doesn't die, I was tearing up at work and had to make sure no one saw me.
@@davidhamilton676 Will he ride alone?
On the 2nd to last book of WoT. Finally decided to give it a shot after hearing about how great Jordan's writing is. I've never had so many problems with a series that I'm overall enjoying. Whack
Same here hahaha
It's so good that you are willing to ignore its flaws.
@@miraclemaker1418 well, I've moved on to A Memory of Light now, and I gotta say it is feeling pretty damn satisfying
@@GeekShiek I'm not gonna spoil anything, but Wheel of Time has the single best ending to a fantasy series, ever. It was so good that I started a reread couple of weeks after I finished it, because I was getting withdrawal syndromes lol
Mans got that main character energy in writing. Manages to fail successfully throughout his entire career. Hell, he even died and STILL finished the series.
I always feel like WoT should be an anime above anything else.
Characters oscillating between deeply complex and 2 dimensional children for comedy scenes? Check
An absurd amount of “oh I couldn’t do this, it wouldn’t be proper!” then sticking up noses? Check
General heavy emphasis on internal dialogue and rationale? Check
Weird freaking dream world stuff that no show is ever going to nail down properly? Mmmhmmmm
Etc etc
This is honestly what I imagine Naruto and One Piece to be like
I genuinely envision every scene playing out as an anime as I’m reading it. I’m only about halfway through book one but it’s eerie how well it works.
@@e443productions9 The “One Piece is the WoT of manga” jokes are played out but honestly pretty accurate from what I can tell only being about halfway through book one.
This has been my headcanon pretty much since book 2. It's uncanny how many anime tropes WoT falls under.
Good luck on dying on that hill.
The wheel of time fans are victims of sunken cost fallacy
Yup
Best comment
I wouldn’t say that. That applies to something where it is blatantly obvious that dropping out is the best option. With this series, dropping out is the worst thing to do-because of what you’ll be missing out on.
@@user-ss9pu9kb9b Do you genuinely think whatever payoff is waiting beyond book 9 for me is worth being bored to tears by eight of those nine preceding books?
I stopped after book 6. I tried.
This is SOOOOO TRUE!!!! I have a boring job and need to listen to something to keep my sanity. So I listened to all of it. The first time through was rough. There are so many names of people and places that i had trouble keeping track of what people were talking about and what was happening. Around book 8 I finally looked up a map and that helped tremendously. The ending was so good though, and the world so rich that I did decide I liked it after I finished. I listened again when the show was about to premier and the 2nd time through was astounding. It's far and away my favorite series, but telling people it's better the second time through is a tough sell
I had a similar experience reading for the first time; I had some frustrations, but overall enjoyed the experience, and the ending blew me away. Will I read it a second time? I'd like to, but time will tell if I can do so. There are so many great books to read...
I agree! The second time through is actually better. But it is crazy! Think about telling somebody that the second time through the 14 books of 800 pages each... You just can't do it.
Holly crap. Im about 50% of book 13 and I cannot wait to read the ending and be done with the series. I am liking it, dont take me wrong but it was exhausting. So having to go back and read it A SECOND time, I think I couldnt do it. There is so much else to read that I couldnt read the whole thing again. It's that good on second read? I guess you can skip passages and books even as you already know what happened.
@@genericallyentertaining "The wheel weaves as the wheel weaves"
I am on my tenth or 12th reread. I mostly do the audiobooks now.
But I have read them in some fashion every year for over ten years.
It’s been a while and I just came back to them. And they honestly do just get better, because they are a lot less confusing when you know the books. Like I catch a lot more small stuff and there genuinely is a lot of it.
Idk. I know it’s silly. But this world is just so good. I am so excited. I just keep doing the thing where I quietly scream “AHHHHH”. Cause I like these books so much.
One thing about such a big series. Imo, it’s increases the reread ability, because there’s a lot more to remember. .
As somebody currently about 65% through The Great Hunt, this speaks to me in ways I can't describe.
Sweet summer child
“Great Hunt” hahaha
@@Mwezi828 Is it getting better... or worse? Or both?(I assume both?)
Im so tired of Rand and him saying he wont be used😂. And I just want to beat up Matt
@@zerozaku1468 He said that like three times just in the chapters I read today.
"I WON'T LET MOIRAINE AND THE AES SEDAI USE ME!!1!" × 15
Daniel Greene needs to see this.
I think i've seen him articulate each of these points across years of casual references haha
🤣👍
Nah he's an obnoxious shill
@@agachill5000 oh *relax,* Mr Chillax, drink some juice, wave hello to your neighbour, life is beautiful why spend time being hateful. no question mark as it's rhetorical, do not reply to me, put your phone down, do some stretches, open the windows it's spring, have a nice bubble bath and listen to an album you really really enjoy, have a good hearty supper.
@@iamfishmindfunny how you recommend people do the exact opposite of what you did. And it's the internet- if you don't want people to reply to you don't leave condescending comments.
I love people saying "It takes 3 books for the books to get good and then it's great for 3/4 books, sucks for 4 and then the final book is amazing" it sold me to the series
You can't fault the fandom for being dishonest.
This is why I just fall down WoT wiki rabbit holes or smile and nod while watching WoT videos like a supportive but completely out of touch mom listening to her kid explain what a TikTok trend is instead of reading the books
😂😂
I came here from r/WetlanderHumor sooooooo.... yeeeeah.
You think you go down rabbit holes..... 😂 Glad you make use of the site. 😁
Aarrrgh! Read the dang books! Or don't, it's honestly a huge waste of time. But you'll be kicking yourself for not having read it earlier. But you'll hate reading some parts of it. But read them, they're great!
Read the books, you won’t regret it.
Literally me to everyone as I make my way through the series. “I’m loving this series, but probably no one should read it ever”
So its like playing League of Legends
That's me lol
😂 This is EXACTLY what happened when I told my friends I was reading it. People even handed me books and said "These are great...they suck."
I love the Wheel of Time overall, especially the magic system. But yeah it has some problems. I do think the first 5-6 books are amazing though. Thats what gets you hooked to slog through the next couple. Also I loved the unanimous "NO!" about watching the show...because yeah. No.
A friend of a friend literally gave me the 14 1000 page books line. 10 years later I picked it up loved it for 5 books petered off after 8 and now another 4 years later. The time has come to actually finish. Probably! Can't remember the last 3 books so we're starting from the top
Nerdy Nightly is doing a book club for WoT, they just got through the “slog” I would highly recommend watching/listening to them as you go through the series, especially during the slog
@Connor Crain and for after OP finishes the series there is always r/WetlanderHumor
I Agree with Connor join a book club that's doing it online or podcast .. depending on where you are at least one is on that book 😅 way of the leaf, wheel takes and wheel reads are all about at the same point you are ... I'm doing the nerdy nightly one too but it's about to start knife of dreams
I went through similar, pushed through, it's worth it. My guide to the Slog: Book 6 is a good book, great book if you pick up on building tension to awesome ending. Book 7 isn't as good, it's basically diluted version of the good stuff. Book 8 is frustrating, doesn't feel really complete. Book 9 has a good 2nd half, real stuff happens. Book 10 (Crossroads of Twilight) is the only one that's outright bad, Jordan referred to it as "a failed experiment". Feel free to skim, skip parts or just read a summary. Just get through it, why? Because Book 11 (Knife of Dreams) through 14 AMOL are as good as anything else in the series - my favorite book is 4, but 14 is competitive because of the amount of satisfying conclusion you get. Overall, if you like fantasy, it's very worth it and I hate to see a bad 1 1/2 books (first half 9, all of 10) keep people from a great 4 other books. And I love talking about them with people, so the bigger the population of readers there are, the more I can do that.
I read to book 11 or 12... where Jordan turns a corner and starts developing the main plot again. The shock of being reintroduced to the main plot pulled me out of the series. I just couldn't believe he'd be able to wrap up all the subplots in a satisfactory way, and I was angry that I had spent so much time getting invested in plots that probably weren't going to go anywhere. I still haven't finished the series. Maybe I should believe in Sanderson more, but there's a part of my heart that is just too wary.
One of my favorite fantasy series ever. It also sucks. I'll proudly recommend people read cosmere books like mad, but this video kinda made me realize why I can love this series and never willingly recommend it to someone unless they're already elbow deep in the cosmere and need a break lmao
Ngl, just started and the fact that I know Sanderson saves the day is probably what will motivate me to actually finish
@@DandDgamer , the only reason why I picked up and finished the series in the first place is because I learned that Sanderson finished it.
@@DandDgamer His wot books are very good considering the circumstances, but I think most WoT fans will tell you, that RJ probably would have done a better job. He "fixes" some things, mainly the pacing, but I believe that this is mostly due to the fact that he is writing the end of the story, so naturally a lot of things happen. I did appreciate that there wasn't that much focus on necklines anymore though.
It's got more A+ Fantasy stuff than any other single series. Part of that is because it just has more stuff (Malazan is longer, I have MORE problems with Malazan - I don't count the Cosmere as a single series, The Stormlight Archive is a single series). All the other things drag down the overall score, so I can't give it more than an A- or B+. But if you have the time, the great stuff is definitely worth it.
Hey now, I think you might need to smooth your skirt over there. Phaw! I'm tugging my braid at your insolence!
0:45 "what are you Tolkien about?"
"You shouldn't read it unless you're really determined to suffer through it" oh dear I felt that one.
Made it a bit into book 10 my last attempt at reading the series 5 years ago and here I am trying again. Of course I'm starting over because maybe I forgot one of the definitely important side characters and scenes since I read it last and I just can't bear to miss anything.
It took me about a year to get throug them because I would get bored and not touch them for months, before coming back, getting completely sucked in, and reading an entire book in like 3 days. It got to the point where I was going to work on like 2 hours of sleep sometimes because I couldn't put them down haha. It's probably my favourite series ever, but this video is disturbingly accurate in describing how I recommend it to people.
Books 4-6 were so good (after solid books 1-3), but for me, despite some crazy events in books 7-10, I wouldn't recommend reading those in detail. Books 11-14 are (for me at least) back on that level the previous books had.
I think one of the reasons certain details are repeated so often is that the length of the books makes it hard for people to remember every detail. It might be worth starting near where you left off and figuring out/remembering things as you go.
The books get better on a reread though so both options are good. But if you are going to reread most of the series you might as well finish it and then understand a lot more from all the easter eggs and foreshadowing put into the early books.
It took a long time to finish the series but I'll never forget the excitement of another book being released, or the hype I felt getting A Memory of Light, finally reaching the Last Battle. Also some really important stuff happens during the slog, mainly the end of Winter's Heart was so hype. Also I just loved the familiarity of Robert Jordan's writing, the beginning and ending of each book was just beautiful to me
Very few authors handle book climaxes quite as well as Robert Jordan did.
“The Wheel of Time turns and ages come and pass, leaving only memory to become legend. Legend becomes myth, and myth is forgotten as the age that gave it birth comes to pass once more. In one age, called the third age by some, an age to come, an age long past, a strong wind rose in the west. It wasn’t the beginning, the wheel knew no beginning or end. But it was a beginning.”
Perfect way to start every book and get me hyped, and Jordan writes climaxes to make even DBZ blush from ridiculous spectacle. The series has its flaws, but the things it does well it knocks out of the park
@@gilian2587 True, those can generally be messy for a lot of authors. :)
@@robertdouth8979 I think I'm hearing double entendre. If it's intended -- well played good fellow, well played.
Something really. Important to keep in mind when reading the wheel of time is that Jordan plays with perspective so much it's easy to get caught up in thinking he's saying something that he isn't. Especially concerning men and women and what they're 'like'. On my 6th read thru and it's the contrast between these characters and their POV that helps makes things feel so rich.
those people who get hung up on the male and female interplay are corrupted, they have the dark one's taint. Stay Away.
Its almost like one of the points Jordan is trying to make about men and women is that neither has inherent flaws due to their gender and rather it’s just human flaws we choose to see more of in the opposite gender…
Like, Elayne rants about Rand being stubborn while she digs her heels in even further which gets Rand to rant about her, neither realizing their own hypocrisy in calling all men/women stubborn. It’s frustrating and that’s the point, they’re both doing the same thing cause it’s a human issue and not a man or woman issue.
Definitely won’t work for everyone, but I actually like how the series deconstructs these ideas both subtly and not so subtly as it progresses
I remember laughing when i saw the men giving relationship advice to perrin (let them get away with the small things. Then when its important and you out your foot down they'll be so suprised they just let you get your way) and then on bassically the next page the women give the exact same advice to the men.
Admitly the rest of that book wasn't particularly great. I only keep reading because Brandon wrote the last 3 and i like him.
Also something I have to remind myself of: the main characters are teenagers. Even the oldest of the main 5 is only like 22. They're not emotionally mature or experienced with relationships.
Every character is flawed, every character has bias. There are a lot of things that I came off very differently to me when I read the series in my twenties that now read very differently because I understand the characters point of view more, even if I disagree with it.
I recall audibly groaning when the first word in a chapter was "Elayne". And book 10 only sits on my shelf because the name is really cool
Fuck book 10, lol. I threw it across the room as soon as I finished it.
My boyfriend doesn’t understand why i read this series because he says i look like I’m having the worst time and I’m like, I am, but also, I really love it 😭
It's like chewing on a very well seasoned piece of hardtack; it's really not easy, but it's so worth it.
@@gilian2587 All of these colorful descriptions are hilarious and sound to me like a 20 something boyfriend trying to sell his GF on the idea of how enjoyable anal will be if she'll just get past all the pain.
I was bored of movies/games so I decided to pick up reading again. Jumped into the witcher, loved it and then decided to check out WoT. 13 months later I finished it...Man that was definitely an exhaustive journey. I didn't even realize till I was halfway through it that I had actually read the series before. Suddenly I had flash backs to 6th grade summer reading, and grabbing that massive EOTW book. Then all the memories of summarizing chapter after chapter, and typing the word Aei sedai more times then I can count...Boy did school suck the joy out of that series, how I could've forgotten such an amazing series completely. Come to think of it, school is what sucked the joy out of reading entirely.
So glad I came back to this series though, so many memories, conversation with my 7th grade teacher about how she thought I was like Mat cauthon and me getting offended 🤣.
If you are interested in second long series I would recommend cradle.
Love your comment but how could even school ruin WOT?
@@estherkasprzyk3823 Instead of being able to Enjoy the books as a whole and just read at my own pace, I had deadlines for each and every chapter. I had to Dissect and analyze each chapter to create summaries for them.
I began to see Reading as a Chore/Work instead of a Relaxing Hobby.
Reviewing books for school ruined quite a few series for me until I was finally out of school.
Oddly enough, this is exactly how I feel about The Wheel of Time and I bounced off it during "the slog" and never finished it. I think I got to Book 7? Or 8? I honestly can't remember anymore.
Every time the crazy and obsessive part of my brain says, "But I should re-read it, it's been like 20 years, plus I get 3 Sanderson books at the end now," the more rational part always replies with, "what, and put myself through all that *again*? Thanks, but no."
The 3 Sanderson books are sooo good 😬
@@rantalmore I'm sure it gets better once you get through The Slog... I just couldn't make it.
That ending, "maybe I'll just watch the show", "NO!!!".🤣 I have had that exact last 30 seconds of conversation with several friends about the Silmarillion and the Rings of Power lol.
Reading WoT I can almost feel Robert Jordan hunched at his typewriter, sweating profusely, fighting a doomed battle to keep his fetishes in check.
This speaks to me. I recently finished the 4th book, and man they are not easy to get through. But on the other hand, I am starting to actually care about the characters, and the world, and I already have book 5 on my TBR shelf. I have decided to push through, but I'll probably only be reading the books on vacation (when my reading speed goes up 400%)
I highly recommend at least trying to get through book 6 because it has one of the best endings however when this video says that the books get kind of slow and boring they're talking about 7 8 9 and 10. They're not the worst and important things do happen but it is really a relief when you get to book 11 and it really picks up a pace from there till the end.
lel he thinks it's gonna get better after the 4th book. F. Sweet sweet innocent naive child. I feel for you. R. I. P.
If you thought Book 4 was hard to get through... 😬. 4 was my favorite of the entire series. "The slog" varies by definition, but some combination of 7, 8, 9, and 10 are included. Pretty sure 10 is almost universally regarded as the worst of it. Knife of Dreams was great, and the Sanderson books had some janky parts (his Mat voice was off to me, and there are some other Sandersonisms in there that jar me), but the storytelling was fabulous, and it was a satisfyingly huge end to such a huge endeavor. While I agree with the point of the video, on balance if someone were specifically asking for fantasy recommendations, WOT would be the top of my list!
@@moleman1976 Hey Book 4 and 5 are in my top 3! Only because a certain group of peepz finally get to shine! And as someone coming from similar background I gobbled it all up. Aviendha is my favorite character besides Mat. 😍
I’m reading book 5 right now
Funny because of the fandom :)
However I feel like I should point out I don't really have any of the common issues with it. It is my favourite fantasy series in 30 years of reading though Stormlight Archive is challenging it these days. So just by way of offering a different perspective than the majority of comments...
I love the way the characters are done, adore the depth of description of things like accents, clothes, minor characters etc. Found a lot of the masculine/feminine interplay and contrast related to people, expressions and events I have witnessed and met in my own life. Loved the magic system and the long far reaching plots and delighted that he didn't spend every page on something essential to the plot. Partially that was because I read it as it was being written so I loved that there were so many people who had so much time I didn't know who would be a dark friend, who would survive or die, what would become vital to main storyline and what would turn out to only really matter for a chapter.
Also I am someone who does not feel 'the slog' people mention. All series have stronger and weaker entries. Is Crossroads of Twilight the Shadow Rising... no it isn't, it is not as good. Do I still enjoy it? Yes, does the plot move forward in it, yes are the characters further developed in it... yes. Shrug
This series is long and it is slow burn and for some fantasy readers that is absolutely what they are looking for. When I recommend it I ask this question: Are you into detailed world building epic fantasy? If the answer is yes, I tell them to read Wheel of Time, if their answer is no, I suggest they pick a different series.
I agree with pretty much all of this, and I also found the slog to not be that big of a deal. Back when I read this series, I was the sort of person who always needed to be reading something - I carried around these books in my pocket the way most people carry around their phones - so the series was great in that it ensured I always had something to read, even if in retrospect there were a lot of things I think could have been done better.
But yeah, this video was mainly about the fandom itself and the tendency of some people to over-emphasize the negative elements of the series.
it is a great litmus test, if the person doesn't like the books that's fine. But if the reason they don't like the books is the female and male interplay they fail. Interacting with that kind of people is a waste of time. May the creator shelter them.
@@mgntstrThis made me laugh. Thank you for this comment.
@@genericallyentertaining just replying to this comment to let you know adage is pronounced ADDIJ rather than ADAHJ.
I’m with you here. Only on listened through book 4 so far, but I’ve been loving every bit of it!
And the male/female interplay really is true to life-as least as far as I have been able to observe. At the very least, you can’t say that Jordan falls into the trappings of 2-dimensional characters!
"I'm talking about Gawyn"
I def thought he was talking about Egwene
I thought Faile, though I'm only on book 4.
i typed out a response to this and realized I'm the person in this vid. long story short she gets worse but its worth it. Also book 4 is my favorite so enjoy it! (it gets more epic as it goes on but book 4 hits all the notes *chefs kiss*)@@NevetsTSmith
I thought for sure it was Nynaeve.
Sometime in the middle, it's literally *every character*
@@NevTheDerangedBut especially Egwene "Think Of The Dumbest Thing You Could Possibly Do In Any Given Situation And Then Go Six Steps Dumber, And Also Be Insufferable To Anyone That Has To Save Your Stupid Behind" Al'Vere.
This is me recommending Dark Souls to people lol. "One of the best games I've played, I recommend it 100%" "But also there are literal unfinished areas, and total slog in the second half you have to get through to beat the game"
I've heard so many Dark Souls fans talk about how insanely hard the game is that at this point there's basically no way I'll ever play it, lol.
@@genericallyentertaining The series isn't insanely hard, it's more that it has a unique style of gameplay you need to adapt to. And you need to be fine with dying a bunch of times as you learn the game, its areas, and its bosses. It's more about perseverance and realizing that it's not a matter of "can I do it" but "how many tries will it take me to do it".
@genericallyentertaining
The game series isn't actually all that hard. It's a slowed down action RPG. Think Final Fantasy 7R, Bayonetta, or Devil May Cry, but the combat is more methodical.
I'd argue one of its closest cousins is the monster hunter series, which is also slower and requires committing to actions. If you try to run in like Devil May Cry you'll notice that your character is slower in movement and attack speed and that the stamina system restricts the amount of actions you can do without a break. When you make mistakes and get hit you'll notice the damage is significantly more punishing than those games. But on the flip side, enemy attacks are way more telegraphed, your dodge roll has way more forgiving invincibility on it, and most enemies die quickly.
Basically the game is hard if you approach it like other games in the genre but fairly reasonable if you meet it on its level and take things slowly and more planned out.
La-Mulana is the same vibe. The game openly trolls you and we LM fans ask for more lol.
I beat Dark Souls 1. Never managed to finish Dark Souls 2.
"If you didn't enjoy it how come you displayed it? It takes like 1/10 of your library. Just donate them"
"Some people display thier diplomas. This is my 'I got through WOT' diploma."
I genuinely skipped a Crown of Swords as neither my library or local book shops had it and as far as I could tell only like 3 actually important things happened.
I just finished it, and I could not name them if you asked me to.
You missed one of Nyneaves best moments, that's unfortunate.
@@Julia-rd8ub yeah but he also missed the absolute worst Mat moments, that had me pretty disturbed, so I'd say it evens out
Rand literally conquers a city and a kingdom.....
@@33jamesds yeah, and I can think of much more things that happened in that book.
I am currently on AMoL after pushing through the series for the last 2 months straight. I have absolutely loved it, even though it does have it's flaws. But yes, I can see why it is hard to recommend, lol. Though switching between reading and listening to the audiobooks has helped a lot with keeping it fresh and getting through some of the repetative parts.
A Memory of Light is gods work!
I love the audiobooks so much, even when they forget how a name was pronounced or correctly the pronunciation mid book. No, I especially love that. It's my favorite way to "read" this series.
I always hesitated to even mention it to anyone. The reality is that if they can't get through a basic trilogy, they have no attention span for this series. LOL
I wish the problem were my attention spam so I just could go slow. The problem are the MC’s. If the second book starts telling me that Ran, Mat, and Perran were eaten by trollocs and now the story is gonna be about Egwene and Nynaeve, I’m 100% in. They are far more compelling and upfront, and far more interesting than anyone else in the book (Yes, I’m talking to you too, Aragon’t. Your background is epic, not you) But if I have to suffer one more chapter of those unbearable clowns of the boys of Emont, I’ll go insane.
@@JaleaMagnetica
Aragon't got me fuckin' good.
"Maybe I'll just watch the show." "NO!" ha ha ha ha ha!
Wife and I are enjoying the show, please don't hate us!
I have finally realized that when a movie/TV show is made from a book, treat it as the visual Fan Fic because they will rewrite the story when they do the screen version. So forget you have read the book(s), get your popcorn and enjoy the show!
I think the problem is that Jordan is trying to juxtapose the characters immature starting selves to their grown selves as a grand metaphor for maturing and growing in wisdom. The problem with that on the first read through is that you don't know the grown characters, so their immaturity/inexperience is INCREDIBLY frustrating at times
Also, some of them don't grow up that much.
I had no idea why people liked Mat so much when reading the first two books. I heard about how great he was from a friend, and thought less of him for a while. At least he became the Mat we know and love by book 3, however.
thats one of the key things I liked about the books. my first books where whatever I found on the floor of our closet growing up some scifi stuff and later read some TSR dnd stuff. But everyone in all those their personality were current and static as if everything were taking place within a year's time or a weeks. also read dune and lotr. I liked the hobbits journey and growth but the key thing about wheel of time which I'd read after that was how the characters grew over a long duration of time. the feeling that long passages of time is actually passing.
As someone who's never read WoT, it sounds very much like the same kind of fandom that Kingdom Hearts has. You absolutely fall in love with the first few games that are legitimately good, and then as the series progresses more and more problems start piling and it gets weirder, more convoluted, and goofier, up to the point where it almost seems that the series itself is determined to make you hate it, but for whatever reason you persist and learn to fall in love with the things you hate about it just as much as the things you love about it, because those times when it DOES hit, it still hits really hard.
Also, you can even see it in the comments here, people don't agree on which parts are "the slog". If you prefer action over intrigue, there's a good chance you won't find much of WoT very interesting. This is also a big source of the split on whether Sanderson did a good job finishing the last books: his pacing is much, much faster than Jordan's, which I found refreshing, but his voicing of the characters was off and they all lost much of their subtle characteristics. It was really clear during any war/battle scenes or discussions that Jordan served in the military and Sanderson did not, for instance. That matters for some people; for others, it isn't noticeable.
I guess the takeaway is, WoT is big and few people like it has to offer. Many people like of what it offers, though.
Don't listen to the haters, give the show a chance. It fixed the biggest issues I have with the books. It's not perfect but it's better than reading a Wikia or summary videos.
It took me constantly consulting the wiki and reading about awesome stuff that was upcoming to get through the series.
Whoop! Another follower snared! 😁
Audiobook! Listen to the audiobooks! They are SO well done and make they boring bits far more bearable.
It's not controversial to say men and w*men are different. It's true.
Only reason I’m reading it is cause Michael Kramer and Kate Reading do the audiobooks and I just finished all of Brandon Sanderson’s cosmere and need more of that man’s voice pumped into my ears.
I only made it through around 300 pages of Eye of the World (sometime after a bath at the inn? Lan and Rand and the gang traveling through a forest? a second Trolloc attack?) before I tapped out BUT I'm sure that's my readerly failing and Robert Jordan was a brilliant innovator of the epic fantasy series! Now I'm keen to see how I fare with Malazan *nervous laugh* This video was really well made, great job and keep it up with your channel!!
Please keep in mind you're not meant to understand much with just Gardens of the Moon
Malazan is very good, but it is NOT an easy read. If you found WOT hard going you may find your tastes lie elsewhere. What series have you really enjoyed reading?
Ugh yesss definitely try Malazan. I'm 7 books in and I actually love it
All joking aside I am 6 books in and will definitely finish it. It has some if the coolest stuff in fantasy ever mixed with boring stuff at times. But I totally get this video! It's so true!
I read the entire series so I could see what the big deal was about WoT, but I pretty much disliked all of it and found it a waste of my time. But now when I say I’ve read the whole series and dislike it, people come back with “well you must actually like it otherwise you wouldn’t have finished”. I literally can’t win lol.
Pretty much my experience. When I tell people I only finished so that I could confirm that it is awful, they act confused. It's a pretty simple concept.
As someone who has finished multiple rereads I have said all of those things to people when I recommend it!🤣
The reaction at the very end is probably the MOST authentic part of this! :D
Yeah I took a break around 60% into the 3rd book like 2 weeks ago and am kind of putting off continuing it, day by day. It's... it's not even that it's not interesting, it kind of is, but it is simultaneously interesting and dreadfully boring at the same time. And I've rarely read a series where so many of the primary *and* secondary characters are so unlikable.
I had to give up on this series because I found the first 3 books mind numbingly slow and everyone says the later books are even slower
After the first few million words it really picks up, though :D
Amazing description of the series. Totally on point in every way. Nerdy Nightly just finished Crossroads of Twilight so they are exhausted by the slog. I can’t wait for them to finish the rest
The WoT feels like a D&D campaign that had a very defined arc at first but then new players keep joining so the DM felt like he needed to add in new encounters to accommodate them so they don’t feel left out
I'm a 57 year old professional, I should be annoyed by this, instead I'm laughing. I need more videos please. This is your favorite series, then why so few videos? Thank you for making me laugh today 😊
I had to stop at book 5 because there was so much happening but so little plot development. Despite this I will say that I enjoyed those 5 books a lot
Lol. So I've only read Eye of the World at this point, but I was actually really surprised by how Jordan handled his female characters in that book. Like, they actually had their own plots outside of Rand and I appreciated that. That said, I did listen on audio so I probably missed a bunch of shit. At some point, I'll get around to rereading it and continuing on w the series.
"I'm a woman, so it's about me."
@@customsongmaker What? How does "Jordan does a good job writing women" translate any of what you just said???
@@TheWordN3rd You said you appreciated it, because you think "This character is a woman, and I'm a woman, so it's about me."
@@customsongmaker If that's what you're reading into my comment, that sounds like a you problem. Have a nice day.
@@TheWordN3rd But you think it's everyone's problem if female characters in a book don't have their own plots
I’m 50 years old - I read it in real time as it was published. That’s a 23 year investment - and at the time he died no one knew if there would ever be an ending.
Watched this video when it came out, and now I’m actually starting the series. Starting reading on monday and will probably be finished eye of the world by tomorrow. this’ll be a weird journey
I didn't experience the slog on my first read. I was running to Borders getting the books 2 at a time for months. I was eating them and couldn't get enough. I started just after RJ passed away and I wanted to stop because it wouldn't be finished but i could not stop. You can complain about Brandon all you want, but i am so thankful for get an ending.
I just finished Towers of Midnight yesterday so only one book left to go (yes I've read New Spring already). On the one hand I look forward towards a possible reread because of all the hints and foreshadowing I might recognize but on the other hand it took me so long to read the entire series (I'm a rather slow reader and my pace even slowed down towards the end) that I can't imagine spending that much time on reading the same books again anytime soon.
The wheel of time has that particularity that every re-read makes you discover new things and love the series and its characters and world more.
I'm well past my 10th read through, probably somewhere near the 15th, depending on how you count (although fewer read through for the last few books), and I still pick up nuggets I didn't find previously.
Many have said that, while the first read is great, the second is the best.and it is a series that never ceases to amaze.
I’m a big asoiaf and lotr fan, so naturally a few years ago I wanted to give wot a shot.
Got about halfway through the first book, found out there was like a billion of them and decided I was good on that.
Also didn’t really help that the dude who suggested it for me also basically spoiled Rand’s entire storyline, so that was just great.
I finished the third book recently and was like "oh man this took a while to get any amount of ok so far I'm not sure I want to continue but I also want to see how it ends." I'll end up getting into the next book soon. Also, thank you for the immediate NO about the show, I thought I was crazy when I didnt see nearly enough hate for it.
I'm in the 4th book and got stock for 3 month, should I continue reading?
Lol loved every single letter of the whole series 😂
The Wheel of Time is my favorite series so far. And the descriptions in the video are spot on.
Is there any fan edit of this book series which cuts out the problematic parts to reduce the slog and improve the pace, like how some movie series or anime series get fan edits. I started watching the TV show and it's mostly meh, but I can sense there might be a lot of good world building and story telling in the books, but I don't think I have what it takes to finish a book series this long. The longest series I have actually finished is Ian M Banks The Culture series and it's 10 books, would the wheel of time be a similar level of reading to that I wonder ?
yes.. this needs to exist.
I've read the first 4 or 5 books. I'm going to say what nobody else does - I think the TV show is significantly better. Yes, I know the big logically flaw in the first season but I can overlook that because 95% of the filler was cut.
A summary:
-Should I read it?
-Yesn't.
Is the show that bad? I remember Brandon Sanderson talking about it and quite liking it, while also giving criticism. Although he also worked on the show as far as I heard, so who knows if his praise of it is 100% legit.
I don't think it's as bad as some people say, but a lot of fans are extremely critical of it. I do hope that season 2 will be better.
If you want accuracy, it didn't happen. If you want a fairly okay stab at getting the story across it does it decently. Some events are out of order and somethings that happen. . .don't happen in the books and have led to questions.
Bradon also later said that the show was worse than Rings of Power. So....
He consulted on it, but wasn't involved in production. He's very kind with his criticisms, but if you listen closely, I don't think he was very satisfied with the end product.
The show is actual trash, the first season was supposed to be based on the first book and they ruined so many of the best plot points and what they replaced it with wasn’t even compelling or made sense. I kept thinking “let’s see where they go with it could turn interesting” they always did something worse rather than tying it all together
The Wheel of Time is the Honeymooners without the humor because humor would have taken time away from describing every stitch on every article of clothing.
But the scene when Rand backhands Codswollop around a room almost makes the whole thing worthwhile.
I just bought the first three books, have I made a massive mistake?
Perhaps the best mistake of your life. The most rewarding ending of any fantasy series. But getting there might make you want to throw the books out the window. Just keeping going. It's worth it.
IMHO, yes. I'm glad I was borrowing them from the library and didn't waste my money.
@@whom382 in all fairness the purchase wasn’t too bad, my local bookstore was having a clear out and the collection was massively discounted
“I gave it up several times before my first time through.”
FIRST TIME? Fourteen books?
I got to book six. Nothing happened for hundreds of pages. I gave up.
The Amazon show isn’t as bad as the fans say.
This sounds like a toxic relationship…
I have heard three things about Wheel of Time that has made me swear it off completely despite owning the entire series: "This 14 book series only gets really good at around book 6." "Each book is around 800 pages." and "There are no bit players in this series. There are over one hundred named characters, and all are important." All these phrases are just deterrents towards me reading it.
You wool headed sheep herder, recommending wheel of time is women's circle business! On a non joking note, wot has one of the biggest reading slogs I can remember but I do think that it also has one of the biggest finales/payoffs of a series. Its also hilarious that some of the most epic moments of the series are hidden in some of these slogs. Now back to reading something less grindy like Malazan...
finished the memories of light today... WHAT A FUCKING RIDE THIS WAS. A lot to love and a lot to hate. You can love a characther and hate it at the same time, throught their actions throw out the series. Although there are a bit of gripes, like the "WHY DONT THEY JUST TALK ABOUT IT!!!" like a certain triangle of tavareen having certain powers and they dont tell to, at least, each other? they tell other people sure, but not to each other?
8,5, almost 9/10. please read it but prepare your anus
Congrats on finishing the series! I definitely had a lot of your same ups-and-downs, but that ending made it worth it for me.
@@genericallyentertaining about the ending, like ending... i dont like the "20 years later" trope, but i feel it needed a 24/48h later epilogue. So, an epilogue to the epilogue xD. I understand the funeral was the best way to end the series, but i needed to see and POV of a certain hot-tempered aes sedai mourn the loss of her best friend, not a throw away line of her in the eyes of one of the boys. I wanted to see the former maiden, forced to be a wise one but still proud of what she once was, acknowledge the fact that her feet are fucked up, and see her tell the news to one of her mentors of how the mentor's husband fell. And i wanted to see both of the non dragon reborn ex tavereen also mourn the death of their friend... expecially one who has a ideologic conflict ahead of him with his empress wife about the nature of that same friend.
the book is 1013 pages long... would it be so bad to make it 1023?
@@AzoiatheCobra There was supposed to be the Outrigger trilogy that dealt with the world in the aftermath, but Jordan had only written a line about it, so there was nothing else to go on.
A great series with an amazing series of climaxes.
I always interpreted the men/women talk as an expression of saidin and saidar manifest through the pattern. They oppose each other, but also need and love each other. Plus there are several characters who express "masculinity" and "femininity" in unconventional ways, that as a queer person it was a very fascinating perspective on gender
Hey! That's pretty much how I view it, too! So, pls no spoilers for beyond book 6, but...
It's the reason why Thom is my favorite character, and is such a masterpiece of writing. Since he's so forgiving and kind, he serves as a bridge between Saidin and Saidar. Throughout books 4-6 he often communicates between the men and Nyneave and Elayne, keeping harmony. I think Thom, as a wizened old man, is meant to represent the balance of Saidin and Saidar in one being. He is the yin and the yang.
I think it's symbolized in his juggling. Seamlessly, he weaves separate conflicting parts into one harmony.
I find that so beautiful for his character.
@@FanyusAnonymous this is in an incredible insight! And he is entrusted with things later on that totally support that.
@antoniojuarez2287 Thank you!! Eek, That sounds so exciting! XD
You've made me want to read them even more!!
I have a theory with Thom and Moiraine that I'm hoping will turn out correct, so I'll have to wait and see!😜
On the subject of juggling -- there's an old series by a fellow named Robert Silverberg released in 1980 where the first book is called Lord Valentine's Castle. It's a hybrid fantasy/science fiction series; I would highly recommend it.
Saidin and Saidar and the men’s and women’s views of each other really reflect Jordan’s views on male/female relationships based on stuff I read back in the day on his blog. I remember him saying he basically let his wife have her way for most things but every few months he’d pick something and put his foot down on it often for no reason if nothing he absolutely wanted had come along.
I tried to read the series back in high school over 20 years ago. only got partway into the third book. sounds like that was for the best.
I don't get the disparate feeling WoT fans have for the series. I read it all: it sucks. There is not enough quality to justify going through it all
Agree to disagree that's how. In my opinion there are 3 just okay books and every other book is excellent with 2 of those being 2 of the best books ever written. So obviously I think the quality is incredibly high.
@@cartergreen2309 None of the books are close to excellent, but you do you.
@@davidbowles7281 That is an interesting take and as you have said 'you do you'. Still, I hope you can see on an objective level that many many people (it's a series that sold 90 million plus copies and is still selling now despite the author being dead and the series being finished) has some especially significant merit.
Halfway through the first book and Mat just fell for the obvious, cliche trap of a creepy old man offering him cursed treasure. It's actually kind of endearing how cliche parts of it are (like how them leaving Two Rivers until now has just been Fellowship of the Ring, again). Hopefully it gets better in terms of being unique, which I can already see bits and pieces of, but even if it doesn't I literally just have it on as an audiobook at my brainless job, so I don't *need* anything special.
Oh, the naivete of book one Mat
Might be a hot take, but I actually really enjoyed the constant male v female stereotypes/comparisons thrown in throughout the series. Especially how Rand, Mat and Perrin kept saying how each other were better with women then them. Call me cheesy but I like little details like that
And don't forget the braid tugging.... there's a LOT of that!
This is exactly how I talk about Wheel of Time. I kind of feel like I need to give a disclaimer so that a)the person will know what they're getting into, and b) they know that I do indeed notice/disapprove of the more problematic aspects.
It really is better on rereads, and the reason is that the author can be really subtle at times, sprinkling in foreshadowing and hints that clever readers could put together but most people miss.
New information can change the context for something you read several *books* ago and completely change how you see that event or character.
So when you are rereading it, you start seeing what are essentially easter eggs, things that you missed, new connections, subtle foreshadowing, entire minor plotlines… its probably better on a reread than the first read through.
This level of entwined foreshadowing and world-building makes the book feel like a masterpiece. Little details of what a character does combine with tiny details of a culture to hint at true motivations that could be revealed books later.
However, the style is outdated. Jordan was very verbose, and not afraid to let sections be slow paced. Part of this is what makes it good, but it can also make it tough for a reader used to modern fast paced styles of writing.
In addition, WoT was wildly influential so almost every tired trope you are sick of show up in this series, usually done or subverted surprisingly well. But a lot of people see the tropes and tine out or lose interest.
For example, the series is ultimately a study on what would really happen when some poor rural folk are thrust into a chosen one save the world scenario, the type of trauma that would cause and the interpersonal and political conflicts that ensue.
Nowadays people give writers the advice to cut any scene that can be cut and to keep things fast paced so that you can keep the attention span of readers used to tiktok. This is the opposite of that.
And that is before getting to the flaws of the series. And there are flaws. Its a 14 or so book long series with over 160 PoV characters (sic). The author was a hell of a wordsmith, but no one is perfect. Quality of different aspects may change, etc.
But more importantly, the series is long and the focus and content changes as the characters do. Not every plotline appeals to every reader and some get more screentime than others.
There will be sections of some books that the reader does not find appealing.
Parts where the pacing drops significantly and the focus becomes subtle political maneuvering, parts where the characters you hate are at the forefront of the story.
The so-called “slog” sees a few plotlines slow down and a shift toward setup and political maneuvering, and is remembered as worse than it is because the books were coming out 3 years apart when those came out. But even I have some legitimate gripes about sections of those books.
(I personally think they land better on rereads so its hard for me to judge the quality for a first time reader. Especially since I read it while young. )
And speaking of styles that are not modern, the characters are written as flawed humans rather than inspiring paragons of virtual. They all have flaws. Some overcome them, others do not.
One character in particular is introduced literally beating an old man with a stick and takes about a dozen books to become even a remotely decent person. This is one of the major characters whose PoV shows up throughout the series. The PoV is interesting, but can be off-putting to some as the character is absolutely obnoxious.
And to top it all off, the author died several books away from the ending and it was finished by someone else. Which created some controversy but props to Brandon Sanderson and the authors and his wife for ensuring the fans got an ending to this story.
So long story short, its a masterpiece with some flaws and an outdated style that is definitely not for everyone.
If you’re interested at all in Wheel of Time I’d say just read the first book and see if you like it. If it doesn’t hook you then don’t worry about it
The first book is way different from the rest of the series, though. You could read the first book only and it still feels like a complete story since it follows the standard heroes journey. It's the rest of the series where Jordan develops more of his own style
@@chestersnap I do agree with you. For example Dragon Reborn definitely set the series apart from others for me personally and started making its way to being one of my favorite series as I continued from there
Great Hunt is still the best book for me.
Some books are so slow the wheel is barely spinning 🛞
Love the wheel of time, and I didn't have issues with any of the books. I've read it straight through twice.
The only series that made me consider the possible benefits of book burning, i curse the day i decided to give it a go
This is SO TRUE. Three pages of Matt walking around a tower in book 4. And the sexism. NOOOOOO. And also, ONE LANGUAGE for an entire complex world? Seriously?
As far as the language goes, you're not looking at it from the right perspective. All the cultures in The Wheel of Time are fragments of what was a globe spanning socialist utopia. The New Tongue derived from the Old Tongue during the War of Power. Granted, after thousands of years language would realistically separate, but it's hardly the biggest suspend your disbelief thing in a high fantasy series.
@@justinalbin7272 I've been an anthropologist for 28 years (NOTE: not an academic, I work in applied anthropology - real world, heritage type work). For part of my career, I worked in linguistics-heavy government interpreting organisations. So I can talk about this at length and with some understanding of the mechanics of how languages change across time. Unfortunately, Jordan's world does not stand up lingustically, or even in comparison with other epic fantasy series. Even in hunter-gather cultures, languages change over relatively short periods of time, and become dissimilar enough that linguists conider them different languages. We can see this clearly in Aboriginal languages, with changes in languages like Warlpiri and Arrernte being documented in only 100 years! And don't even start me on the immense volume of literature out there on global languages like English - which would have be a handy model for Jordan creating a world in a post-monolinugal empire several thousand years in the past. In WoT, the world is detailed and historically deep enough that there simply should be different languages. To not have them without a really, really good reason (and Jordan supplies NONE) detracts from the overall experience of the books. Yes, Jordan created a world with an amazing, detailed history. But history alone does not equal language or culture.
@@Nettlewitch I already acknowledged that language would separate after thousands of years, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying there is an in universe explanation for why everyone speaks the same language. While it's not realistic, it's hardly the worst offender in a high fantasy setting. I can easily think of other more unrealistic aspects of his world building when compared to real life. For example, it's unbelievable that multiple kingdoms bordering the coast would defer to the Sea Folk for naval trade despite being technologically comparable to Renaissance Era civilizations and knowing that there were other lands beyond their continent.
The only possible explanation for why none of them had a significant number of seafaring vessels of their own is that they realized that the Sea Folk's ships outstripped their efforts in ways they couldn't possibly hope to replicate. Accepting that, it's impossible to accept that the White Tower wouldn't have been convinced that the Sea Folk were hiding channelers from them.
I think you're just hung up on the language due to your knowledge and clear passion for the subject. It's fantasy, none of it holds up under scrutiny compared to what we know of our own world. None that I've read at least. If you think The Wheel of Time stands out among fantasy for having unrealistic world building then maybe you could recommend something you feel does better. I love the world building in fantasy and Jordan is lauded for being one of the best in that regard. If you think there are others that do much better I'm sure they'd blow my mind.
@@justinalbin7272 Sorry for the short reply when you deserve a better one. My dad has just been admitted to hospital (he's 87) and it's not good news, so Im' going to have to bow out for now. Thanks for reading my comment and for your response.
@@Nettlewitch No problem, thank you for a polite discussion. I hope things turn out ok for your dad.
When I first read wheel of time I was SUPER confused for the first 3 books because of how many names and locations were being thrown around (Also I listened to the audiobooks while doing other things AND I slept through a few snippets without realizing) and then around book 4 I got a grip on all the country names and people and by the end of the series I LOVED how it really felt like I understood and knew the culture of the WOT world.
As someone in the Sanderson fandom that hasn't read WoT, this is amazingly accurate.
Just finished this series. Feel like I read completely different books from all of you? It was incredible throughout
This is so accurate 😂 I’m at book 6 and most of the time is just like background noise. Nothing happens and you just keep going like if it was the ad break on a movie, but then a scene actually moves the plot forward and you are like HOLLY SHIT WAAAAAT GIMME MOREEE and so you keep going 😂 I think i’m taking the attitude of just treating it like an episodic tv show, you just watch it to go trough the 8 seasons without desiring the end, just to fill the time.
To be fair though book 6 is slooow. Every chapter is like twice as long as they need to be.
I just finished book 6 lol Book 5 was terribly slow though, 6 was a wee bit better, we'll see what 7 holds.
@@JudyR112 I'm just finishing 7 and I liked it more ^^
@@alexitosworld Just started 7.
This is a fair comment, there are amazing moments nestled deep inside of the “slog”
Someone needs to write an abridged version of the books.
Honestly, I’ve never understood the slog. I love every book
100% agreed. Didn't know it was a thing until the online fandom made it a meme. I think now it is a self fulfilling prophecy.. kind of what is shown in the skit. People expect to dislike certain things about the series because they have been told to. As with most your mileage will vary. I absolutely loved the series and didn't have hardly any of the issues I know other readers had with it...
So very true! Wish I would have seen this a long time ago. I’m at the “I need to take a break” part of reading this series. It’s been a year! Guess I’ll try and finish?!
Robert Jordan is George Lucas.
Let me explain.
Just like Lucas he's an amazing story teller and an amazing world builder. . . but his writing leaves something to be desired.
Lucas is the guy who gave us the force but he's also the same guy who gave us "I hate sand. . ." The Empire Strikes back is the best Star Wars film. . .it's also the one of the original 6 that Lucas had the least to do with because he set the story and the world building but he let someone ELSE write it and someone ELSE direct it.
Jordan is an amazing story teller and an amazing world builder. . . but I wasn't the biggest fan of the way he wrote those books. . . .
I'm not there yet, but Brandon Sanderson wrote the last few books and those are allegedly the best ones in the entire series lol, so this analogy is very good actually
I just want to say... I hate sand... I really resonated with Anakin when he said it... totally feel the same way. Probably would feel even more that way if I'd grown up enslaved in the desert... I know you were making a real point and a sensible analogy but just wanted to show how as with anything your mileage will vary. I know some of the writing is cringe, some of it is for me, but I have been surprised at the bits that people have memed on. Anyway I flipping love the way RJ wrote, though his world building is even better so it is definitely my opinion speaking rather than objective facts :)
I think it unlikely though that I am alone (On the RJ thing not the I hate sand comment) after all I doubt the 90 million copies and all the rereads are based on the world building alone. I am also a big Star Wars fan ( no surprises there right?) and I find it interesting that the three films Lucas was not involved in at all Episodes VII-IX are the most maligned of all, so maybe the mileage varies on Lucas as well) Ah creative subjectivity of taste and enjoyment eh?
@@e443productions9 I thought they were the worst personally.
@@tomwalker8944 Interesting. I'm on a hiatus after The Lord of Chaos since that was super boring for me and I stopped paying attention to the audiobook. Will continue when I have undivided attention since I know the slog is coming up and if I read it when I'm already on a book slump it's gonna be the end of me
@@e443productions9 TBH I've never understood why they call it "the slog" Because Rand isn't in them a lot? Beats me I prefer Mat and Perrin to Rand anyway lol.
As someone who read the first book and gave up, i relate to this video i guess. Plus I’ve heard so many people say this. I’m a Witcher fan though and we have our fair share of disclaimers like “some of the scenes translated poorly AND aged poorly” or “Yes some of the plot is a little forgettable, but it’s CHARACTER driven” etc.
The slog might’ve been a real thing as it was being written and released but now that it’s complete I truly don’t think it’s as bad as people make it out to be. There’s really only like one book that I would consider kind of grueling and that is Crossroads of Twilight.
It’s much better during rereads.
They’re so much better on rereads, first time thru felt like nothing was happening but there’s so much being set up and the pay off is so good.
I think Wheel of Time worked really well doing it as an audiobook. I could listen to it when commuting / doing chores, but it wasn't my main book either. I could speed up at the slower parts but then slow it down for the good moments. It was good enough that I wanted to keep reading it, but not so much that I would devote the limited amount of time I have to sit down and read books the traditional way. There are definitely some criticisms I have about it, but it was still a great story, and I'm glad I stuck through it.