Walther's .45ACP MP (P38 Precursor)
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
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During the process of developing the pistol which would become the German army's P38, the Walther company was also interested in potential export contracts (like the one they actually did get from Sweden). One potential contract briefly explored was to the United States, and a few prototype MP pistols were made in .45 ACP caliber. These were larger in all dimensions than the standard MP, and shared the features of those other developmental guns (most distinctively the shrouded hammer and internal extractor). This pistol was almost certainly taken as a souvenir form the Walther plant in 1945 by an American GI. No records exist of any American trials of the guns, and it seems that the plan to offer them for sale was never followed through on, probably because of the (9mm) guns' success in German military trials.
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Holy cow, this mysterious fireplace guy has one huge collection!
We call him " Gun Jesus".
Speak for yourself, due to the fireplace, I call him Santa Claus
The chap with the fireplace has a *superb* collection of European self-loaders and related items. I hope they'll end up in a museum someday.
@@stanleydenning I'm pretty sure all the videos that use the fireplace for a back drop, are not Ian's. Rather all belong to another collector.
@@Frob25 So, what has that got to do with what I said ?
I want to point out that not just the caliber marking is "american". The "Walther's patent" marking is using 's which is specific to the english language, while here in germany we would just write "Walthers patent". Thats another nice touch indicating that this gun wasnt meant for the domestic market.
This is definitely one of the most “unexpected to exist” guns on this channel.
@@gradeyundery4939 He's never needed to anything mainstream to get views, and his videos on more mainstream guns like the Uzi and Thompson are the absolute best in their class for showcasing them.
What a piece of history. I envy the person with enough money to buy one, let alone both
I dont think they will going up for sale anytime soon lol
I envy the man who took them during the occupation
I envy the people who live in a country where you can own guns.
Whoever the fireplace guy is.. man. I'm in awe. Just.. holy crap, man.
Very cool I was aware of the Luger trials pistol in .45 acp but wasn't aware of the Walther, thanks Ian!
They ultimately were stowed away in some backroom of the Walther factory, all because - War Were Declared!
(** cue C&Rsenal's "WAR WERE DECLARED" clip **)
40 year later, the US adopted an improved descendant of the P38, the 92fs so this would have been "ye olde m9" if it were adopted.
technically speaking, the M9 has more of beretta 32 D.N.A. than P-38
lol that's like saying that G36s are AR-18s. Similar operation, different design
@@razgriz1258 It has both. In the late '40s, having to develop their first locked-breech-pistol (the will be Beretta M1951), the guys at Beretta chosen the Walther locking block operation instead the Browning tilting barrel because that was more compatible with Beretta's iconic open slide.
@@neutronalchemist3241 fair enough, a lot of firearms designs were improved and updated in a similar fashion after ww2
A p38 and a hi power pretty much
My first thoughts looking at it, is it looks nice to shoot, a comfortable looking grip.
Whole world: "this 9mm pistol is great!"
America: "yall got that in .45 acp?"
Very nice! You are the best at your craft!
Thanks for showing us Ian, looks like a very nice shooter.
Had Walther imported this juel to the US, it would of sold like crazy. I want one. Beautiful firearm.
Law enforcement would have been killing for a double/single action .45 pistol. It would have been a game changer in the U.S. pistol market.
@@knutdergroe9757 The SIG-Sauer P 220-1 in .45 ACP was available for years and still is, as far as I know.
Oh I see how it works. .45 acp lugers and p38s are valuable collectors items but 9mm 1911s are heretical. I don’t understand this world anymore
Pretty much
38 Super is ok though
Americans just don't like metric calibers. We like .223 rem, .308 win, .50 bmg. We don't care much for 5.56x45, 7.62x51, 12.7x99,. or 9x19 for that matter. ;)
'Merica!
It's all about rarity and mystique. If millions of Lugers and P38s were made and less than 20 1911s in 9mm were made by Colt, then collectors would pimp their mothers out for a Colt. Also one of the most collectible Colts is an original 9mm Commander.
Nicely machined and finished
thats one sexy pistol
Super cool to see this. The p38 was may favorite pistols when I was a kid. I have seen the APs before, but was unaware of the MPs. Great little piece of history. Do like the exposed hammer of the p38, though.
Maybe the most elegant semi-auto handguns ever there (+German quality)
Man a .45 Walther MP is one of my dream pistols. That thing looks so nice, and it's in .45!
Awesome! And i would love to see the vsw and mauser models that lost the contract to replace the Luger...Can't remember if Ian allready made a video of those...
Thank you , Ian .
Beautiful grip panels!
Interesting as usual thanks Ian
Simply stunning
So nice to see that it made its way to its intended destination after all
gorgeous pistols
In an alternate history where Charles Lindbergh became president, the USA would have adopted this pistol.
What A Beauty.
What a great stuff!
Just perfect!
just wow, I had no idea this existed
Both really viable pistols. What a pity they didn't go into production.
The .45 makes it so cool
@rwsthedemonking hell yes
That’s cool!
Very cool! Thanks guys :)
Tis a thing of rare beauty
Big ups to fireplace man.
A gun with style
Second woo hoo! Nice piece! I have a sad life! Good video as ever Ian. Greetings from France!
Gordon Gekko had one of those. If you watch Wall Street, early in the film he shows it to Charlie Sheen's character.
I bet that would sell in the US today of Walther made and updated version.
I and I'm sure others would be interested in hearing about the Men who had the forethought to take such trophies. Without them they truly would be forgotten
Anyone have any idea of the approximate value if sold today?
Very cool! :) But I'm surprised that they didn't tweak the design a little to make it compatible with 1911 magazines.
one can imagine the wonder on the GI's face when they found a german pistol that fired a real cartridge.
It looks like, rather than getting rid of the widened section on the slide, they made the wide section bigger, covering the entire sidewall of the slide, and only tapering way back by the safety.
I'm kinda surprised that the 9mm version didn't have double stack maggs. It's not like they didn't know about that technology in the nineteen thirtys. It would have been a much better side arm if it did, but we all know this now.
Wondered that myself. Would have eclipsed the excellent but SAO P35 if it had.
Yeah, it is a bit weird that double stack magazines for pistols didn’t really take off for duty or military use outside of the Browning Hi-Power until the 80’s when the “wonder nines” like the Beretta 92 (first produced in 1976 but still became popular in the 80’s), Glock 17 (1982), and Sig P226 (1984) etc. hit the scene. It’s why the 1911 remained such a viable pistol for so long.
Hell, even after those Wonder Nines hit the market, by 1988 Para Ordnance had released conversion kits to turn the 1911 into a double stack pistol, by 1990 they were making full guns like the P14-45, and finally by 1992-ish, the first two piece frames of what eventually became the 2011 hit the scene.
Who’s the jerk who thumbs down these wonderful videos?
Great video & gorgeous firearm. However, you left out approximate appraisal or auction price. Everyone wants to know.
That thing has to be worth a fortune.
We're surely in the wrong timeline, boys.
ITS THE FIRRPLACE OF PISTOLS
Based on the MP acronym, I thought this was a "Maschinenpistole"!
I wish Walther would re-issue this gun. I think it might be a popular alternative to all the 1911s on the market today.
Where can I find this man and learn his ways?
I wonder if that is a background instead of structural
A speculative price or value? Would the closest integer dollar amount be "a small monarchy king's ransom" or just "a novelty"? With only a one or five off "production" how would one valuate the item, I wonder. The video interesting rating is, as always, high.
Weird video to drop this question on but as it is recent:
Does anyone potentially know the length and width of an FN FAL or R1 muzzle break?
11.732feet x 2.76mm
So what was the legality of war trophies in cases where the army must have literally just walked into this factory and looted things of interest?
I know people make a big stink about returning captured artwork that the Germans took in WWII, and rightly so. Even tho in some cases it causes some hardship for the owner who he no idea it came out of a Nazi salt mine. But what about firearms of particular interest that were taken from the mfg where it's clearly not a combat weapon?
Not that I wish this gun to leave ita current place but, was there or is there some legal distinction between "I found this on the battlefield after we captured a German bunker" and "After occupying the town a few of us were sent to secure the local factory, handle the transition with the local staff, and decided to take some rare stuff while in there."
Certainly, you would think Walther or Mauser would want their pistols from the 30s back, so they must have lost any title or claim to them at some point along the way. But other than the obvious "to the Victor goes the spoils" reality post WWII, was there some official or legitimate process by which the Allies had ownership of these companies under occupation, and had right to distribute (or allow taking of) things like prototype guns to private individuals?
There was really zero concern about depriving German arms companies of their property. When the French ended their occupation of Mauser, they took all the portable machine tools with them and blew up the buildings. Things like art are/were much more of a concern because art was typically taken from museums or citizens of occupied countries.
@@ForgottenWeapons , it is clear that theese "caliber " of guns werent "liberated " by a common GI . Hi rank oficers must have the acces to theese and nobody will argue, besides as y say the spoils go to the winers , salutes from URUGUAY . keep up the good work.
@@RadioWerwolf Its called "reparations of war"
War its the bigest gamble of all if you win you take all, if you loose youre srued , as general Patton said " there is no greater efort in human history than war !! and the only place you see the real character of man its flaws and stength .... a thrue militarist Gral Patton .
@@RadioWerwolf oh dear we wouldnt want that would we
Scott Watrous, I'll make you a deal. We'll return the "war trophies" if Germany repay US for the Marshall Plan and all the billions WE spent to rebuild their country not to mention the rest of Europe they wrecked plus the further cost of the Berlin Airlift and the cost of stationing NATO forces throughout the Cold Car protecting West Germany. Pay that up and you can have your Nazi war toys.
Like it.
Very curious that a gun that was intended for US trials still has a heel magazine release.
Yeah... it's a European thing. When Beretta first brought over the Model 92 for military trials, it still had a heel release. We made them change that out really quick.
Megatron's big bro!
side note on trials testing
dose anyone know the old war movie where he is in the office with two knifes to approve one so he looks them over shoves one in a draw and it snaps so he picks the other?
Yep, The devil's brigade.
@@matthewb391 cheers for that
They got rid of the reinforcement in the slide but looks like the later one gets a little bit wider far back in the slide, just behind the safety lever hmmm (sort of redistributing the material so it doesn't protrude that much?) it's like the 20$ 5$ shipping vs 25$ free shipping joke haha
Ian , Walther where doing rather well then also Selling the PPK to the Army , Luftwaffe and police
What was that pixelates area on the thumbnail, guess we’ll never know /s
the .45 version also has the "load indicator".
Unfortunately, the color is no longer recognizable.
too bad that you dont go into that detail on the "load indicator"
in your development history of the P38.
p.s google translator is not my friend ;)
Where can I get those wooden blocks that you use to hold up firearms?
Inside a tree.
@Dylan Morgan I suppose I could make them myself, just can't for the life of me think of what those things would be called... display bench block? idk
+silentReaper1220 Just type gun display block or just gun display in general. The amount of people that use them to display firearms like old revolvers etc. There’s bound to be loads of them online.
@Dylan Morgan yeah ive tried for like an hour with no success, but ill keep trying though thanks man
is youtube up to its tricks again. i didn't get a notification for this video or the inrange q&a a couple of days ago . hmmmmmm
Is this filmed in Ian's house or somewhere else?
So in The Man From UNCLE are they using the 9mm or the .45? :-)
Whichever the scriptwriters or Guy Ritchie decided they were using. If they did at all. Doubt it.
I really love this pistol, specially because it's 45acp!
No matter what people say for me the 45acp=🇺🇸
Let the hate comments come from all the 9mm lovers!
#Louderwithcrowder
From where you get that??
I had no idea they made a .45 version first. No wonder the 9mm version became so heavy, and clunky.
They started to develop it in 9mm, then during the development process, they made a .45 version too.
@@neutronalchemist3241 Okay, I misunderstood. Still, the 9mm version is as bulky as a .45, despite having a single stack mag.
And the winer takes the spoils !!
Ja,
Looted...
Hahaha
@@knutdergroe9757 as it turn out to be that bored soldiers get to kill time !!souvenirs!!
I wonder if Ian loans these guns or if he owns them himself… If it’s the last he should start his own museum! That’d be amazing, he knows enough and I think Ian is capable enough to run a museum about guns
Most of them are for sale at auctions, sometimes private collectors provide the guns for him or he is at museum where he can make videos about the guns. He owns gun as well but as long as he has other guns to talk about, he waits with his so in the case he has no option to get other guns he has is own collection for videos.
Dennis Hakkie if you watched to the end, he thanks the private collector for lending him the gun for filming. Most other videos start with him mentioning the action house, company or museum that provided him access to the guns.
Whilst i’m sure he’d have a great museum, I’m glad he’s doing this instead. A museum typically has a theme/subgroup they stick to, whilst in this format Ian can show us basically anything he can get his hands on.
If it isn’t French Ian isn’t collecting it. He has spoken in the past as to why French firearms, and one of the reasons was/is cost. French guns are a fine choice and can actually be had for a relatively low costs considering rarity, quality and historical significance.
@Jimm Crowe Manurhin manufactured very high quality post war P1 & PPKs in France.
Ummmm, pretty much all designs are “stolen” ideas so anyone who can produce a quality PPK or P1 is hand fitting or at least creating an automated tolerance program that is insanely accurate. That’s not crap by any definition. Colt USA is garbage compared to Colt Canada according to this definition since the Canadian manufacturing is leaps and bounds ahead of the USA parent company and they are hiring up Canadians to improve their manufacturing lines as well as importing completed parts the Americans are having the biggest difficulties duplicating. I’m curious as to what you firearms engineering degree level is, at least a Masters I’m guessing but perhaps you have a Doctorate? The French lead the way and as a result they made all the mistakes we got to improve upon. By you logic America has crappy military since Great Britain paints all the electronic boards used by the American military and China populated them and the USA’s military is a technological force much more so then infantry based. America also uses a combined tactical strategy created by the Germans and British as well as the French so I guess strategy wise those countries clearly are better in battle and any one of them especially England would kick the USA’s butt no problem. Great Britain also has a vastly superior GPS system that is exclusively used by their military that is accurate to less then 10cm whilst the USA is only accurate to more then 300cm. I don’t like French guns much myself but they are hardly all crap and the USA does produce loads of rubbish and in fact probably far more then the French. I’m also sure they produce far more good and high quality firearms including a startlingly massive amount for their free citizens. Try to act superior and not talk that way, it shows disdain and a distinct lack of education. You sound like a bigot and a louse.
How much do you think that .45 would fetch at an auction?
At least treefiddy
Im going to spend my life savings on it and use it as my daily carry.
Sad days when you have to blur out a thumbnail on a history video
You are welcome to go look at the swastika on Full30.com
CDNShuffle
Can’t blame him, it’s youtube !
@@TheeEmperor i dont blame him, i believe that if history is erased we will not learn from our mistakes.
we live in a freak filled world barreling toward certain doom. as pogo said, we ARE the enemy. ian is amazing. carry on, brother.
Ian has said in the past that it isn't RUclips, but German (& European) laws that prevent showing the hakenkreuz.
did you shoot it
The Loogoo
Is this the private collector's house or Ian's?
When you pronounce WALTHER, forget the H. it is silent!
it would have been extremely hard to compete with the 1911 at that point. Would have to have something the 1911 didn't, and I don't think there was anything.
Would have been interesting and confusing if the U.S. Government had adopted the Wlther as a service sidearm. In the heat of battle, it is not the right time to realize, you have been trying to cram the wrong magazine into your pistol. What would be the perfect matching video, if you could find the Luger .45 submitted for U.S. Military trials.
Meanwhile in the alternate history - Wolfenstein II, anyone?
Is it pronounced “valter”, “walter”, or how ian pronounced it?
Barnaby Jones in native German it is indeed “Val-ter” as a “W” is pronounced as a “V” and a “Th” is pronounced as a “T”
a bunch of euro countries pronounce a W like a V.
walter
Sir_Godz Poland also pronounced a W as a V, and uses the “Ł” for the sound a W makes in English (wuh)
I thought the 45 auto is 11.43 mm.
daddy wants a repro soo bad!!!
Hi
the allied soldiers who got their hands on that must have been surprised --> german design, US caliber.
Wasn't the manufacturing plant in Zella-Mehlis occupied by the Red Army, not the US army?
It was initially overrun by American troops, before being made part of the Soviet occupation zone.
@@ForgottenWeapons You're right, I didn't know that part of my own countries history. As a reference here is the relevant wp article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_contact
________________
Americans learn WWII started in 1941 when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.
Europeans learn WWII started in 1939 when Germany invaded Poland.
Asians learn WWII started in 1937 when Japan invaded China.
Africans learn WWII started in 1935 when Italy invaded Ethiopia.
Awwwww, no way. What kind of video is this if you don’t test fire it alongside a GI 1911... phooey 🤨
How much is a real P38 worth? Got one from my father 🤔
Please don´t say Wol thurr.
The name of that company is Vultre. Or maybe Vuhl-tear.
No German word or name in existence has an english "th" sound in it.
Was the flag blur on the thumbnail necessary?
By RUclips's policy, based on German laws dating to the 1950s, yes. If you want to see the swastika, you can go look at the thumbnail on full30.com .
@@ForgottenWeapons I was only curious, thanks for the info. Awesome video as always man :)
@@zepter00 Pretty sure that Germany, Poland, Lithuania and Latvia don't add up to most of Europe.