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Ancient polytheistic mythologies and weird sex, name a more iconic duo. Honestly, I feel that you can't prescribe these gods a sexuality other than "whoever catches their interest at the time"
Also, the fact he’s rather powerful, like a majority of marvel villains cause they get no respect, outside of the popular and sometimes overused ones like Venom, Thanos, Ultron, etc…
No, that's exactly it: they know he's a trickster god. In fact, they _idolize_ him. He's what they _want_ to be - conniving, underhanded, sadistic, deceitful and hedonistic - and to _get away with it._ Just as he did. They love Loki because they love what he represents: their (horrible, reprehensible) idealized selves.
In fact in Myth is Loki who get the gifts for Odin, Thor and even Frey, but consequently, one of the craftsmen sewed up Loki's mouth with a needle and thread. and they agreed who that was the best gift of all In this history who beggins with Loki making a heavy joke to Siff (He let her bald) he gets Odin´s lance and magical gold ring, Frey´s golden boar and magical boat and Thor's hammer (And a wig for siff of course)
As a Mythology buff, I am disappointed you left out the best part of the Thor story that really cements it as a comedy. The idea to dress up Thor as Freyja, as formulated by Heimdall, also had Loki shapeshift into a bridesmaid and accompany him to Thrym's kingdom. On the ride over, this came to Thor's mind. "WAIT A MINUTE, LOKI! If you can shapeshift, then how come I'm the one in this stupid wedding dress instead of your Fire Giant ass?" To which he replied "OHLOOKWEREHERENOW! C'mon, can't miss your wedding, darling!" The best part was how Loki was covering Thor's ass by saying that "Freyja" was just draining all of the Jotnar's food and alcohol bevause of, and I'm paraphrasing, "Pre-Wedding jitters." Staring daggers with blood-red eyes filled with a furious burning rage, literally downing tables of food and entire barrels of mead? All because "she" couldn't sleep or eat out of a shy anxiety over her engagement. The best part is that it works. Even funnier when Loki managed to get by Thor's beard due to Thrym's poor eyesight. I swear, Norse myth writer's would be the best Action-Comedy filmmakers. And s*** like this is why I'm a Mythology buff. And this is why I can tell you that the writer for Loki's TV show using a badly reapplied Norse Myth to push an agenda on a Marvel show is so stupid. Thinking Marvel Loki and Norse Loki are the sane or super similar, at least enough to make such a comparison, is like comparing a can of spray cheese to an aged wheel of Sharp Cheddar.
@@kri249 Depending on which version of the story you go by, he's either just a normal dude trying to get married or the devoted husband incarnate when it comes to Persephone. And her mother is an overbearing control freak either way.
@@Reddotzebra yeah that's the point he always makes. He's a normal dude, as normal as Greek gods can get anyway. But Hollywood films usually cast him as evil because of the underworlds synonymous with hell and the devil in western culture.
Loki in Norse mythology is the exemplar of the clever fool. He's clever enough to come up with many ingenious schemes. He's a fool because he never thinks to himself "what could possibly go wrong?"
So basically smart enough to not die, but dumb enough to get into big trouble. Trickster gods were one of my favorite things to study in mythology, but I never understood why. I think now I get that it's the wacky hijinks that made me laugh, and the cunning schemes that made me interested in how they would escape.
@@DannySmith- I think the root of the trickster myth is complex. First, if you've ever been the target of a trickster it's very compelling to imagine that person receiving comeuppance. But also, I think there are many Lokis in this world people who are smart enough to get themselves in a world of trouble, but dumb enough not to care. I know someone uniquely susceptible to this interesting form of stupidity.
@@DannySmith- trickster spirits/gods always struck that feel of ranging from a Disney Villain to a cartoon conman, in both instances they’re very clever, cartoonishly eccentric and have more confidence in themselves than a hero in a Greek tragedy
I will forever hold it against Tika that Dr. Strange never asked Loki “is it true? Where you impregnated by a Horse?” In Thor 3. With Thor saying yes and Loki saying no. Resulting in a running gag of Thor having been reminded of Loki’s soft spot pulls a brotherly move and brings it up in conversation as often as he can for the rest of the film.
I will never understand the argument that Loki is into men, because he had sex with a horse. Says a lot more about what they think bisexuals are like than anything about Loki.
Exactly. The full story makes Loki a transexual furry...okay, not really but context means so little to these "storytellers" I'm surprised they didn't go with that.
I remember reading that the Norse gods engaged in flyting, and one of the insults thrown at Loki was that when he was away from Asgard he'd go do it with men and give birth to children. So I think the whole topic was something Loki was not fond of.
There's one teeny tiny little detail they forgot about: Marvel's Asgardians have absolutely nothing to do with Norse mythology, there is Loki, Thor, Heimdall, Odin, Frigga, but there's other bits that Marvel changed that their Norse deities wildly different, such as Fenrir is the Son of Loki, but in Marvel's version, Fenrir isn't Loki's son. Odin died of old age in the movies, yet in Norse mythology he was eaten by Fenrir. Loki was also suppose to father Jormungand The World Serpent. In Norse mythology, ALL Norse gods & goddesses are killed during Ragnarok, but in the movies, both Thor, Loki, a Valkyrie, and some Asgardians survived. So they can try to use actual Norse Mythology as their "evidence" for why characters are the way they say they are, but their "evidence" only holds any sort of value if the Marvel versions were directly & accurately linked to the mythology it is LOOSELY based on. They can claim whatever nonsense that they like, doesn't make it true just because they say so. I could say Zachary Quinto isn't Gay because he played the straight character Spock. Doesn't make it true just because I say so, same goes for the idiots who claim Loki is Bi or Thor is Gay, their say so means nothing.
if i remember right there was a few goods that survived ragnarok. at least i remember the 2 sons of thor as the survivors BUT the die later cose the where not imortal anymore cose iduns apels are gone and only this aples gave the gods the long lives as long the eat them.
In the myths, Hel is also a daughter of Loki, rather than his sister. The "appeal to mythology" defense relies on ignoring adaptational differences at every step.
Funnily enough, with the context of the myth added to their claim comes the implication that sex or other stuff done for any reason at all counts as part of one's preferences. So that would actually be like saying Zachary Quinto isn't strictly gay because he played a straight character. @Delta Victor Oh, one of us could probably make a whole video on the ways Marvel departs from Norse mythology. As another example, in Ragnarok Hel expresses disappointment that Odin stopped his conquest "at nine realms", implying there was much more to the universe -- known universe, at that -- than the nine realms of the kingdom or whatever; while in the Norse mythology the Nine Realms *are* the world/universe, afterlife destinations included. No more than them out there.
It all too funny to me when progressives get to complain all about "cultural appropiation" while doing exactly that to the Norse mythology. I would indeed be far more accepting of Marvel's Thor overall if it wasn't under the toxic enviourment they've created.
@@grejsancoprative I agree, And I would say the simplicity of Thor 1's loki up till infiniti war was perfect. It told a good redemption story and made me feel good. Now it just seems like they just want to f everybody who doesn't think like them off.
@@nuclearsimian3281 Thank you for sharing my point of view. There is too much polarization in today's politics and not enough love/care for the people's actual opinions. It kind of makes me feel sad.
Marvel Loki: "I'm not doing 'Get Help'!" *has to do Get Help to live* Mythology Loki: "I'm not doing 'Distact the Stallion'!" *has to do Distract the Stallion to live*
Ok, look, if a person were to have a gripe or quibble with Loki being bisexual and someone else took umbrage with their gripe and responded with, "Well, one time Loki turned himself into a girl horse so as to seduce a male horse and had a baby horse so that proves Loki was bisexual." I think it is perfectly reasonable to conclude the person making that argument is stark raving mad. When that is the extreme a person would go to for such a flimsy argument you know they've lost touch with reality. It would be infinitely better to just say: Because I said so or because I want it! The fact someone even felt the need to try and justify it means they know, deep down, they are full of baloney.
Well that means mythical loki did that. The MCU is a different version and we don't even know of comic book loki is Sleipnir's parent in this mythos at all. Sleipnir is Odin's horse and Loki's kid.... *Cough* The nords were weird.
I mean fucking a horse makes Loki a Zoophile not Bisexual. Although he can't really be judged by human standards because he ain't human. He's a shapeshifter,he doesn't have a particular race, gender or even species he is a horse as much as he's a Human.
Left-wingers when talking any other power-imbalanced sexual relationship: "RRRRRRRAPE!!" Left-Wingers when talking about the torturous/slow death ultimatum presented to Loki and his subsequent sexual relations with a beast: "Nah, he'll be fine."
Best joke I've ever heard about Thor dressing as the bride is him turning to Loki (who backs him up during this adventure) and asking "why am I doing this? You're a shapeshifter!"
Ah, this is absolutely wonderful! A great look at how they confuse sexual orientation with occasional tasks that were done for life and death situations.
Fenrir, Jormungundr, and Hel were also Loki's kids. You know, two giant monsters, and an underworld steward. The original mythology probably wasn't so concerned with Loki being into men considering two of those three are world ending threats.
@@ElPerpuli then what about the human children that loki had. When he changed his form into a woman went to Midgard. During which he spent having children and being a milk mother. Which is also canonical with marvel since Peter had to help one of loki descendants.
I had a mythology teacher in high school. I remember vividly when she first mentioned the story of Loki and Sleipnir, one of my classmates (I think his name was Michael) said aloud: _"How the hell did that happen?"_ It was a great time.
my absolute favorite story from the edda was the story about thor comming back and wannt to cross a river but the fairmen (odin in disguse) did not take him over the river and the two battle then each other with storys how strong men the are and both claim the complete time to be the more menly one :D
As someone who majored in every kind of mythology when I aced literature in high school (I'm even currently writing a book about Hermes), it really irked me when the idiots at Disney claimed Loki was bi-sexual. Especially because of how Sleipnir was born, since I knew that story as well. Firstly, having a horse do the deed with you is not part of being bi-sexual. That's actually an act defined as beastiality. And having a sexual attraction to animals is defined as zoophilia. Being bi-sexual means you are attracted to both men and women. So they got that pretty wrong, unsurprisingly. (In fact, if I were bisexual, I might take offense at that.) Secondly, as you pointed out, Loki never truly wanted to have sex with a horse. The gods bullied and terrified him into making a desperate decision, one that came with a stipulation he certainly didn't want. And it ended with a living object of his humiliation, one that he will avenge in anger to this day to the severity that not even gods more powerful than him dare to mention the whole fiasco in his presence for fear of his resentful wrath. Thirdly, there is also something that these idiots fail to mention. Something that held true in the comics and in the original stories. Loki had a wife. Sigyn. A devoted wife. A women he was even highly attracted to since he saw her. (Sadly, she was actually a bit of a doormat for Loki. Wish she had been more assertive with him. Also wish Marvel didn't kill her off.) I have yet to see any of these people making claims about Loki's "bisexuality" or "gender fluidity" (claims Loki himself would likely murder them and their whole families for) even mention Sigyn. Even just once. Hmmm... 🤔 On a completely different subject, I heard you on the first episode or the "Writing Wrongs" podcast, and I already love the show. Will you be on again? Are you a permanent part of it, or were you a guest?
I listened to a podcast episode about Loki and Thor trying to convince Freyja to marry Thrym. When Loki learned of Thor's plan, he started walking a little slower when they were approaching Freyja's hall.
As a Norse mythology buff, it kills me inside to see Marvel's Thor posted instead of the ripped, routy, red headed thunder god he was depicted in the Sagas as being. I can't forgive Marvel for this.
Spitballing here: I wonder how long it will be before the governments of Norway, Sweden, and Finland sue Marvel and Kate Heron in particular for misrepresenting Norse mythology and their culture? Bonus points if other bisexuals ALSO sue them for being misrepresented as well. (Don't take this too seriously. I would just find it hilarious if they were publicly called out.)
To be fair, Loki was constantly associated with sorcery in Norse mythology, and sorcery was strongly associated with "ergi"="effeminacy, perversion." In the Eddic lay of "Lokasenna" (basically, "How Loki insulted all the other gods"), Odinn mentions that at one point Loki "spent eight winters on the earth milking cows as a woman and bore children there." The point is that to the Norsemen, bisexuality/homosexuality (at the very least in the submissive rôle) were signs of grave evil and dishonor, suitable to the evil figure whose traditional poetic paraphrases included "Father of Monsters: the Monster of Ván (that is, Fenris-Wolf), the Vast Monster (that is, the Midgard Serpent), and of Hel; Evil Companion; Thief of the Giants, of the Goat, of Brísinga-men, and of Idunn's Apples; Foe of the Gods; Forger of Evil, the Sly God; Slanderer and Cheat of the Gods; Contriver of Baldr's Death; and Wrangling Foe of Heimdallr and of Skadi"; and whose loosing signaled Ragnarök, the destruction of the gods and of the entire world. To the Norse, Loki is not a charming Tom Hiddleston; he's a literal monster, and his perverse sexuality is only one more example of that.
But does it really count as bisexuality when you change your physical body for it? Every documented instance of Loki boning was heterosexual. If anything it just shows how little he actually cares about others with how often it was accidental like with the horse or for the specific purpose of making world ending monsters
@@Lyth13 You have to decide that yourself, the people who invented these stories aren't here to tell you their intent with Loki or detail about how "he's supposed to be"
this is a common trope in a lot of myth stories, that the king god man has a strong masculine son, and a somewhat sickly effeminate son. Dark Souls being a good example. If you think about a pantheon as a single person's psychology, with the king being the pure spirit of "father" which is not necessarily your exact father but the collective wisdom of all fathers (hence Odin The "All-Father"), if a person is unable to integrate these different parts of psyche, all of which are necessary, then the world crumbles. This is what the anima and animus, the shadow, the id and the ego are all being represented by. The masculine son and effeminate son need to integrate and replicate the father, which they cant because theyre both incompatable (both males), and even if one of them was female it would still be incest which means corruption due to the "established order" folding into itself rather than expanding appropriately, which would be to adapt accordingly to the new world because the old world that the all-father inhabited isnt the same one. It would be like insisting that smell is what transmits disease and not germs. If you follow that idea then your society will suffer more, and likely be taken over by societies that conform better to new discovery. But the point being made with the 2 sons story is that it is inevitable that Ragnorak will come, and everything will be wiped clean and started again, hence the orouboros, such is the cycle of empires and kingdoms all over the world, because people are not eternal, and are not carbon copies of what came before, and neither can they be because the landscape of the world changes and needs to be adapted to otherwise its also death. my comment was more a masturbatory experience to help me place all these things rather than a reply, but maybe its interesting to you and others
Actually, there's a good deal of debate over whether Loki was depicted as the 'evil one' by the original Norse, or if that is something attributed to him largely by the christian monks who are the only written sources for Norse myths available to modern scholars. Such monks are notorious for trying to fit christian ideas into pagan stories, equating characters like Loki with the devil, and characters like Baldur with Christ in order to make the myths sound just like fan fictions of the bible, and thus making it easier for converts to accept christian ideas.
It becomes a little more disturbing if you consider that: Loki having Sleipnir wasn't part of his plan, and that he normally takes the short end of the stick ... you can conclude that he was most likely RPd! Now, think the implications of making those allegations in this context.
"And Loki nursed his resentments." Really? No one's gonna say it? Okay then. Nursed, huh? I see what you did there. For my part, I was already aware of the Sleipnir myth before the MCU became a thing, and at the time I already had an interest in shamanism and the like, so it didn't come across as that far out of left field. It was more a story about clever use of shapeshifting, and that's not something exclusive to Loki or even to Norse mythology. Also, if they want to rely on the myths to make Loki bi, then why can't the fans rely on the myths to insist that Heimdal be the palest of the gods?
8:39 I'm listening to this entire story, and THIS IS THE TYPE OF STUFF I WOULD WATCH IN MARVEL, if they had competent writers and didn't throw all their scripts into prompts for text AI
Loki: The God of Mischief and Evil with a vast amount of magical powers and cool dark magic looking magical beams. What would the first thing Marvel would do for his show? Kate Herron and Michael Waldron: he’s bisexual now, and gets easily beaten so we can give him this pathetic green blob of magic and a female version of himself that’s better than him, because of course…
@@ElPerpuli From how I remember it, his main intention was to distract the horse for as long as possible rather than escape it (it was being used by a giant to build a wall) I think the part where he was leading it away was part of his plan at least but I don’t remember any version of the myth making it clear how much consent was actually involved. Honestly I kinda got the impression he just gave so few shits about the deprave act that went on with it for the sake of Asgard’s plan to screw their giant contractor over, as Opposed to any real attraction.
I mean, they might as well have said "Fifty Shades of Grey" is the Golden Standard for BDSM relationships and it wouldn't have been much worse of a statement. If at all.
I think the myth of Loki and how Sleipnir was born shows one of the reasons this trickster god is evil. Sleipnir was his son, and he gave him away as a gift. Yes, he was a horse, but could he not have nurtured Sleipnir himself? The foal was fond of him after all.
He's getting that from Neil Gaiman's book because that is not in the original myth . Actually many think it is implied to be straight up rape and thus the child is a product of rape hence the giving it away.
@@MyaKHamilton Haha what? Rape? That is a strange interpretation. Haven't read the Neil Gaiman edition, but Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda isn't much different from what was described in the video. Even going to the Poetic Edda we don't get too far from base. Even if it was rape in the proto-myth from which these others come, does that make Loki less of an evil trickster god? He still has a slew of other myths.
I won't deny that Loki as bad things but at the same time the other gods have done truly horrible hings as well like odin bragging about raping dozens of women. One of odin's names literally translates to evil doer. Honestly I judge a God based on what they do to humans and Loki doesn't do much of anything to humans right up until Ragnarok happens. The problem with calling Loki or any of the other Norse gods for that matter evil is the fact that they're not benevolent in the 1st place. Literally the myth were Loki insults all the gods is at the same time the same myth he calls them out for all of their wrong doings like Njorth, Freyr, and Freyja committing incest and Freyr forcing a woman to marry him.
@@MyaKHamilton For sure! All Norse gods were definitely weird! I'm curious by the way; where can I find this interpretation that Loki was raped by Svadilfari? I have never seen such an article and now I am intrigued to know how that conclusion was reached.
What I got out of the story about Loki and the Builder was not his personal proclivities, but rather "If you wanna pull a big heist, you gotta take a small hit."
It got even worse for Loki later on. After Loki had an affair with a Giantess, producing 3 monstrous children by her, Odin immediately banished two and later had the third chained up in Valhalla. They were Hel Queen of the Dead, Jormungandr the World Serpent, and Fenris the Wolf. After Loki engineered the death of Balder his two sons by his wife Sigyn both meet bad ends. Vali was killed and his hide used to create the bindings to confine Loki while Narfi was turned into a wolf. No wonder Loki wanted Valhalla and everyone in it to BURN!!!👿
The Silence of the Lambs is an under appreciated movie! I love the video LD! Edit: Also, Gaiman’s weird politics aside, the audiobook of his Norse Mythology is well worth a purchase! I had a great time listening to it.
Having read these myths in grade school, have to 100% agree that people who think Loki giving birth to a horse or Thor disguising himself as a bride are justification for the current nonsense are intentionally ignorant of the source material. There's no excuse to be misinformed here. Also, it constantly amuses me how people continue to idolize the character in Norse Mythology that's the closest allegory to Christianity's Satan. There used to be this saying, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people he didn't exist." I'm starting to wonder if we don't need a new updated version of that saying, something to the effect of, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people that not only was he no devil, but that they should idolize him."
Fun fact: It was Loki's impregnation from a stallion that inspired the Bull-Rapes-Man-Dressed-As-A-Cow scene from 1984's spoof film 'Top Secret!' . . Okay I made that up..
Also funny: in mythology, just before Ragnorokk, Odin brings up the fact that Loki mothered his horse, and Loki gets pissed at him saying so. This informs us that he's...embarrassed. Oh my.
Yo, great video. Thanks for clearing this up for me. I had a gut feeling that something was off about "Loki's bisexuality," but I couldn't put my finger on it. 👌❤️
"It's not gay because I had to do it." "You could have brought a female horse and spruced her up with your magic if that wasn't good enough for the stallion, why was your first choice: "I will get fucked"?"
Maybe loki isn't as smart as being the trickter god would make you think he is. should have thrown his eye down a well for wisdom like Odin did before concocting his plan.
Great video, but I should point out one small detail you might have missed, though probablu for time: it was Loki's plan to put Thor in a bridal gown, and Loki went as his "handmaiden." Good ol' Loki and his shenanigans!
So Loki's whole escapade here is this: Druid casts wild shape horse to lure in horse to steal, accidentally choose a mare form while making mating calls, horse goes in for the call.
Funnily enough, Loki could be considered gender fluid, as he changes his gender often to fit his need. Usually though, when Loki actually has ***business*** with someone, he usually does it in the opposite gender of them, only doing it when need be, not because he wants to perhaps. One key thing to note about this too. When loki, and sometimes his children, shapeshift, they actually gain the attractions, urges, and behaviors more befitting of that gender. (Please don't start on the whole "gender is a construct" rant because it's really not. I just don't want to start that argument.)
I love how we have differing opinions, yet most of what you say I agree with. And even the things I don't, you present in a reasonable and fair argument. I forget which video I was watching, but you compared several good older comics to several mediocre modern comics. I thought, "well, it's not exactly fair to compare clearly better comics to clearly worse ones..." Then it occurred to me, that was your point. I didn't realize how stongly the liberal brainwashing affected me. Of course, my dumb liberal idea is, we want experienced writers to include diverse people, because the ones who are writing that way are not great writers. Yet. It's more timely for experienced writers to include diversity, than writers who already do so to develop their writing skills. They will eventually, but it would be nice sooner. Keep making quality videos with valid arguments.
My favourite part in all of this is how easy Literature Devil takes Twittard delusional arguments and, without losing his smile, courteously tears them apart with the expertise of a craftsman. Battles for our culture are to be performed with the utmost respect. Especially against the Barbaric 280-Character Squad, who willfully submitted themselves to Darwinism. This is why I subbed. That and the laugh, of course.
"It aligns with the original mythology" is a bit of a cop-out. I remember a certain guardian of the rainbow, who was described as 'the whitest of all gods' whose appearance was changed away from aligning with the original mythology, to allow for progressive politics. Now, don't get me wrong, Idris Elba utterly rocked the role. But you can't tell me 'acshually this aligns with the original myth' now, because I know they care exactly zilch for it. Can't have it both ways.
It's also worth noting that within Marvel canon, mythology is based on a real civilization and is ultimately a collection of interpretations by people who had no way of understanding the infinitely complex technology at play and is hailed as magic. So who's to say Loki didnt use his "magic" to bioengineer an eight legged horse and it was written down as a birthing because they had no other explanation for it?
I mean, I think you can use the elements of Loki's character such as shapeshifting and giving birth to monsters (not to mention the trickster archetype often likes to mess around with "roles" in general) to explore gender fluidity, but to make him out as bi rep because he had sex with a horse suggests they probably didn't think too deeply about it.
In Lokasenna Odin also accuses Loki of shapeshifting into a milkmaid and having children with mortal men, and Loki retorts by saying that Odin wears womanly clothes (robes) in order to practice sorcery. There's also an old Norse tradition of calling orphans whose mothers are unknown "Loki's children." This really has nothing to do with wokeness, and even if we discount the Slepinir incident, mythical Loki has always been transforming into women and f**ked by men, voluntarily so. Not that it's portrayed as a positive trait when told by Viking storytellers, though. (Source: Am a Norse mythology fan)
Except that doesn't prove their argument because Loki literally becomes a biological female Which would mean when hes having sex with a male it is heterosexual sex. He shows no interest in males when hes a male Nor any interest in females when he turns into a female . In a way one could argue hes more like some of those species of fish that can change their sex whenever they want. I don't think we can apply a term like bisexuality to a God you're God because how do we know that there are more like a human in that way than say a fish. Add: I honestly take this one with a pinch of salt because we have no other source for this myth and clearly odin is using this as a deflection because Loki started out by yelling at him for his treatment of humans In war. On top of that we don't even have the full story just this little part of it. Also, the text never mentioned sleeping with men at all And I find it ironic that people forget that Loki can actually Get pregnant without a partner Since he does so according to odin By way of eating some random witch's heart.
Another great video friend! It also irks me that people get mythologies wrong in general to fit their narrative. Don't think marvel was the only one who did that with loki and the Norse gods Rick Riodan, the author of the Percy Jackson series, wrote a spin off story called magnus chase. He was part of the Norse aspect of the world (he was the son of a summer God or something) he eventually meets a daughter of loki who is............ *sigh* gender fluid. The reason? It's cuz she's a shape-shifter and she's constantly changing forms, including between male and female People online are all "see it makes sense! Loki is gender fluid too!" ................ loki is a shape shifter because, say it with me now, HE'S A TRICKSTER GOD! He changes into whatever form he needs to create mischief and pulling off pranks to the other gods. By the end of it he's still a he The fact that his daughter (yes they even called her that at first) can't make up her mind when it comes to her form shows how weak her self identity is. Granted I only read the first book and I didn't even finish it cuz I got bored. Maybe the later books might explore it further and she's actually a good character. But the way the book introduced her made me lose both my interest and my respect for the author. He was supposed to be a man who researches mythologies thoroughly to make the story work, but lately he's gone woke. I used to revere his craft, now I hate it and that's just disappointing
Here's the thing, We can't really explain Loki's Sexuality in ways like humans. He's a God, and he is known to have sex with anything with a Pulse. People keep mentioning he had sex with a horse but forget to mention That Loki Spent 8 years in the form of a woman/Milkmaid While he had been having Sex with Men and having their babies, Odin exposed his affair during an argument. Example: Source: In the Lokasenna, Odin claims that Loki spends 8 winters underground, "milking the cows as a maid" and bearing children: Loki spake: 22. "Be silent, Othin! | not justly thou settest The fate of the fight among men; Oft gavst thou to him | who deserved not the gift, To the baser, the battle's prize." Othin spake: 23. "Though I gave to him | who deserved not the gift, To the baser, the battle's prize; Winters eight | wast thou under the earth, Milking the cows as a maid, (Ay, and babes didst thou bear; Unmanly thy soul must seem.)" Source: Poetic Edda/Lokasenna, Wikisource. The claim that Loki gave birth is repeated by Njörðr: Njorth spake: 33. "Small ill does it work | though a woman may have A lord or a lover or both; But a wonder it is | that this womanish god Comes hither, though babes he has borne" So yes, Loki has Sex with both Women, Men, and animals. The thing is Loki is not into the LQBTQ community that Tumbler and Twitter likes to toot a lot; he's not into pronouns or anything as stated in the comics; it's not in his culture...He just wants to Bang anything with a Pulse.
God, I really hate when people say he'll Bang anything or the pulse when that implies hes done with both pedaphilia and Incest But we know that he might very well not like incest since he insults the shit out of 3 of the other gods for doing it.
Fair enough. I’ve never had an issue with Loki being portrayed as bi-sexual since one of the aspects of trickster gods is the breaking of societal norms. But I do think it’s fair to push back against those attempting to use the horse story as proof of bisexuality - if it were to prove anything (which it doesn’t given the whole threat-of-death thing) it would prove beastiality. And the Thor as bride incident definitely doesn’t prove anything other than that crossdressing as a form of deception is an old, old, old trope.
These modern day writers don’t understand that the stories of old were told in a metaphorical sense. These idiots don’t research or aren’t competent enough and take the things that happened as a literal interpretation and in doing so they loose the true meaning. When they try to write these characters, the characters come off as one dimensional because of self inserting themselves
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Ancient polytheistic mythologies and weird sex, name a more iconic duo.
Honestly, I feel that you can't prescribe these gods a sexuality other than "whoever catches their interest at the time"
Are we talking about the same neil gaimen who ruined sandman?
It's like modern writers forget Loki is a trickster god and does most of his antics to avoid death or to mess with the other gods.
Also, the fact he’s rather powerful, like a majority of marvel villains cause they get no respect, outside of the popular and sometimes overused ones like Venom, Thanos, Ultron, etc…
It's almost as if even gods that are deviant and deceptive pay a hefty price for it.
What people often forget is that Loki provides solutions while getting himself and others into trouble.
Forget? That assumes they ever knew he was a trickster god.
No, that's exactly it: they know he's a trickster god. In fact, they _idolize_ him. He's what they _want_ to be - conniving, underhanded, sadistic, deceitful and hedonistic - and to _get away with it._ Just as he did.
They love Loki because they love what he represents: their (horrible, reprehensible) idealized selves.
And this story also tells us why Loki is so butt hurt all the time
Literally.
In fact in Myth is Loki who get the gifts for Odin, Thor and even Frey, but consequently, one of the craftsmen sewed up Loki's mouth with a needle and thread. and they agreed who that was the best gift of all
In this history who beggins with Loki making a heavy joke to Siff (He let her bald) he gets Odin´s lance and magical gold ring, Frey´s golden boar and magical boat and Thor's hammer (And a wig for siff of course)
thats not how babies are made
Ba-dum tsssss!
So a rear-entry encounter provides equine offspring? How about that.
This proves that ONE incident with ONE horse, unwilling as it was, will affect your reputation for life.
The negatives of shape shifting.
As a Mythology buff, I am disappointed you left out the best part of the Thor story that really cements it as a comedy.
The idea to dress up Thor as Freyja, as formulated by Heimdall, also had Loki shapeshift into a bridesmaid and accompany him to Thrym's kingdom. On the ride over, this came to Thor's mind.
"WAIT A MINUTE, LOKI! If you can shapeshift, then how come I'm the one in this stupid wedding dress instead of your Fire Giant ass?"
To which he replied
"OHLOOKWEREHERENOW! C'mon, can't miss your wedding, darling!"
The best part was how Loki was covering Thor's ass by saying that "Freyja" was just draining all of the Jotnar's food and alcohol bevause of, and I'm paraphrasing, "Pre-Wedding jitters." Staring daggers with blood-red eyes filled with a furious burning rage, literally downing tables of food and entire barrels of mead? All because "she" couldn't sleep or eat out of a shy anxiety over her engagement. The best part is that it works. Even funnier when Loki managed to get by Thor's beard due to Thrym's poor eyesight. I swear, Norse myth writer's would be the best Action-Comedy filmmakers.
And s*** like this is why I'm a Mythology buff. And this is why I can tell you that the writer for Loki's TV show using a badly reapplied Norse Myth to push an agenda on a Marvel show is so stupid. Thinking Marvel Loki and Norse Loki are the sane or super similar, at least enough to make such a comparison, is like comparing a can of spray cheese to an aged wheel of Sharp Cheddar.
Sadly , these ancient stories are so much better and interesting then the modern ooz being pumped out these days.
It's like when Mythology guy always makes tik toks mocking Hollywood for casting Hades as the villain in anything to do with Geek mythology.
@@kri249 Depending on which version of the story you go by, he's either just a normal dude trying to get married or the devoted husband incarnate when it comes to Persephone. And her mother is an overbearing control freak either way.
@@Reddotzebra yeah that's the point he always makes. He's a normal dude, as normal as Greek gods can get anyway. But Hollywood films usually cast him as evil because of the underworlds synonymous with hell and the devil in western culture.
I feel like a bunch of Monty Python writes just used a time machine and created that story.
Loki in Norse mythology is the exemplar of the clever fool. He's clever enough to come up with many ingenious schemes. He's a fool because he never thinks to himself "what could possibly go wrong?"
So basically smart enough to not die, but dumb enough to get into big trouble.
Trickster gods were one of my favorite things to study in mythology, but I never understood why. I think now I get that it's the wacky hijinks that made me laugh, and the cunning schemes that made me interested in how they would escape.
@@DannySmith- I think the root of the trickster myth is complex. First, if you've ever been the target of a trickster it's very compelling to imagine that person receiving comeuppance. But also, I think there are many Lokis in this world people who are smart enough to get themselves in a world of trouble, but dumb enough not to care. I know someone uniquely susceptible to this interesting form of stupidity.
@@objectivelyacat3873
That makes sense too! Art does mimic life.
@@DannySmith- trickster spirits/gods always struck that feel of ranging from a Disney Villain to a cartoon conman, in both instances they’re very clever, cartoonishly eccentric and have more confidence in themselves than a hero in a Greek tragedy
@@Broomer52
These are also reasons why they are so interesting to watch! Thank you!
Thor: "WITH A MARE!?"
Loki: "I *was* the mare."
I will forever hold it against Tika that Dr. Strange never asked Loki “is it true? Where you impregnated by a Horse?” In Thor 3. With Thor saying yes and Loki saying no. Resulting in a running gag of Thor having been reminded of Loki’s soft spot pulls a brotherly move and brings it up in conversation as often as he can for the rest of the film.
I will never understand the argument that Loki is into men, because he had sex with a horse. Says a lot more about what they think bisexuals are like than anything about Loki.
It's almost as if being the God of Mischief came with a hefty price.
Exactly. The full story makes Loki a transexual furry...okay, not really but context means so little to these "storytellers" I'm surprised they didn't go with that.
If anything, Loki is a trans icon more than a Bi one.
I remember reading that the Norse gods engaged in flyting, and one of the insults thrown at Loki was that when he was away from Asgard he'd go do it with men and give birth to children. So I think the whole topic was something Loki was not fond of.
@@ShadowWingTronix 🤣🤣🤣That is so much worse!
There's one teeny tiny little detail they forgot about: Marvel's Asgardians have absolutely nothing to do with Norse mythology, there is Loki, Thor, Heimdall, Odin, Frigga, but there's other bits that Marvel changed that their Norse deities wildly different, such as Fenrir is the Son of Loki, but in Marvel's version, Fenrir isn't Loki's son. Odin died of old age in the movies, yet in Norse mythology he was eaten by Fenrir. Loki was also suppose to father Jormungand The World Serpent. In Norse mythology, ALL Norse gods & goddesses are killed during Ragnarok, but in the movies, both Thor, Loki, a Valkyrie, and some Asgardians survived.
So they can try to use actual Norse Mythology as their "evidence" for why characters are the way they say they are, but their "evidence" only holds any sort of value if the Marvel versions were directly & accurately linked to the mythology it is LOOSELY based on.
They can claim whatever nonsense that they like, doesn't make it true just because they say so.
I could say Zachary Quinto isn't Gay because he played the straight character Spock. Doesn't make it true just because I say so, same goes for the idiots who claim Loki is Bi or Thor is Gay, their say so means nothing.
if i remember right there was a few goods that survived ragnarok. at least i remember the 2 sons of thor as the survivors BUT the die later cose the where not imortal anymore cose iduns apels are gone and only this aples gave the gods the long lives as long the eat them.
In the myths, Hel is also a daughter of Loki, rather than his sister. The "appeal to mythology" defense relies on ignoring adaptational differences at every step.
Funnily enough, with the context of the myth added to their claim comes the implication that sex or other stuff done for any reason at all counts as part of one's preferences. So that would actually be like saying Zachary Quinto isn't strictly gay because he played a straight character.
@Delta Victor Oh, one of us could probably make a whole video on the ways Marvel departs from Norse mythology.
As another example, in Ragnarok Hel expresses disappointment that Odin stopped his conquest "at nine realms", implying there was much more to the universe -- known universe, at that -- than the nine realms of the kingdom or whatever; while in the Norse mythology the Nine Realms *are* the world/universe, afterlife destinations included. No more than them out there.
I too love when people pick-a-choose facts from Myths to push "Progressive" ideas.
Because that's exactly how their ideology works. Cherry picking is part of their methods.
It all too funny to me when progressives get to complain all about "cultural appropiation" while doing exactly that to the Norse mythology. I would indeed be far more accepting of Marvel's Thor overall if it wasn't under the toxic enviourment they've created.
They've invented nearly a hundred genders. They're practically creating their own myths at this point.
@@grejsancoprative I agree, And I would say the simplicity of Thor 1's loki up till infiniti war was perfect. It told a good redemption story and made me feel good. Now it just seems like they just want to f everybody who doesn't think like them off.
@@nuclearsimian3281 Thank you for sharing my point of view. There is too much polarization in today's politics and not enough love/care for the people's actual opinions. It kind of makes me feel sad.
Marvel Loki:
"I'm not doing 'Get Help'!"
*has to do Get Help to live*
Mythology Loki:
"I'm not doing 'Distact the Stallion'!"
*has to do Distract the Stallion to live*
Avengers EMH Loki: *Magically blast Thor across multiple walls into the guards!*
“Problem solved.”
Ok, look, if a person were to have a gripe or quibble with Loki being bisexual and someone else took umbrage with their gripe and responded with, "Well, one time Loki turned himself into a girl horse so as to seduce a male horse and had a baby horse so that proves Loki was bisexual." I think it is perfectly reasonable to conclude the person making that argument is stark raving mad. When that is the extreme a person would go to for such a flimsy argument you know they've lost touch with reality. It would be infinitely better to just say: Because I said so or because I want it! The fact someone even felt the need to try and justify it means they know, deep down, they are full of baloney.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
Man Shakespeare hit it on the head.
Well that means mythical loki did that.
The MCU is a different version and we don't even know of comic book loki is Sleipnir's parent in this mythos at all.
Sleipnir is Odin's horse and Loki's kid.... *Cough* The nords were weird.
I mean fucking a horse makes Loki a Zoophile not Bisexual. Although he can't really be judged by human standards because he ain't human. He's a shapeshifter,he doesn't have a particular race, gender or even species he is a horse as much as he's a Human.
If anything Loki is a furry.
Left-wingers when talking any other power-imbalanced sexual relationship: "RRRRRRRAPE!!"
Left-Wingers when talking about the torturous/slow death ultimatum presented to Loki and his subsequent sexual relations with a beast: "Nah, he'll be fine."
The time Loki got pregnant as a horse it is heavily implied that was NOT consentual.
Best joke I've ever heard about Thor dressing as the bride is him turning to Loki (who backs him up during this adventure) and asking "why am I doing this? You're a shapeshifter!"
Ah, this is absolutely wonderful! A great look at how they confuse sexual orientation with occasional tasks that were done for life and death situations.
Fenrir, Jormungundr, and Hel were also Loki's kids. You know, two giant monsters, and an underworld steward. The original mythology probably wasn't so concerned with Loki being into men considering two of those three are world ending threats.
All 3 had giants for mothers.
That´s because Angrboda the mother, was from a cursed tribe of ice giant witches, and in fact she dies after Hella
@@MrDj232 Just one giant Angrboda
@@ElPerpuli then what about the human children that loki had. When he changed his form into a woman went to Midgard. During which he spent having children and being a milk mother. Which is also canonical with marvel since Peter had to help one of loki descendants.
@@Ando1428 mythology is weird
I had a mythology teacher in high school. I remember vividly when she first mentioned the story of Loki and Sleipnir, one of my classmates (I think his name was Michael) said aloud: _"How the hell did that happen?"_ It was a great time.
my absolute favorite story from the edda was the story about thor comming back and wannt to cross a river but the fairmen (odin in disguse) did not take him over the river and the two battle then each other with storys how strong men the are and both claim the complete time to be the more menly one :D
As someone who majored in every kind of mythology when I aced literature in high school (I'm even currently writing a book about Hermes), it really irked me when the idiots at Disney claimed Loki was bi-sexual. Especially because of how Sleipnir was born, since I knew that story as well.
Firstly, having a horse do the deed with you is not part of being bi-sexual. That's actually an act defined as beastiality. And having a sexual attraction to animals is defined as zoophilia. Being bi-sexual means you are attracted to both men and women. So they got that pretty wrong, unsurprisingly. (In fact, if I were bisexual, I might take offense at that.)
Secondly, as you pointed out, Loki never truly wanted to have sex with a horse. The gods bullied and terrified him into making a desperate decision, one that came with a stipulation he certainly didn't want. And it ended with a living object of his humiliation, one that he will avenge in anger to this day to the severity that not even gods more powerful than him dare to mention the whole fiasco in his presence for fear of his resentful wrath.
Thirdly, there is also something that these idiots fail to mention. Something that held true in the comics and in the original stories. Loki had a wife. Sigyn. A devoted wife. A women he was even highly attracted to since he saw her. (Sadly, she was actually a bit of a doormat for Loki. Wish she had been more assertive with him. Also wish Marvel didn't kill her off.) I have yet to see any of these people making claims about Loki's "bisexuality" or "gender fluidity" (claims Loki himself would likely murder them and their whole families for) even mention Sigyn. Even just once. Hmmm... 🤔
On a completely different subject, I heard you on the first episode or the "Writing Wrongs" podcast, and I already love the show. Will you be on again? Are you a permanent part of it, or were you a guest?
Is the book on Hermes non-fiction?
@@DannySmith- No, it's fiction. Going to be a trilogy, actually.
@@TonberryQueen
Wow! Is the first one already available for purchase?
@@DannySmith- lol nah. Not finished typing it yet. But I'm close. Going to self publish too.
@@TonberryQueen
Awesome! I'd like to read it when it comes out!
So you're telling us, Loki took one for the team? 😂🐴
Yeah, most stories involving Thor end in 'And then Thor killed everyone not Aesir or human'.
I listened to a podcast episode about Loki and Thor trying to convince Freyja to marry Thrym.
When Loki learned of Thor's plan, he started walking a little slower when they were approaching Freyja's hall.
As a Norse mythology buff, it kills me inside to see Marvel's Thor posted instead of the ripped, routy, red headed thunder god he was depicted in the Sagas as being.
I can't forgive Marvel for this.
Spitballing here: I wonder how long it will be before the governments of Norway, Sweden, and Finland sue Marvel and Kate Heron in particular for misrepresenting Norse mythology and their culture? Bonus points if other bisexuals ALSO sue them for being misrepresented as well.
(Don't take this too seriously. I would just find it hilarious if they were publicly called out.)
To be fair, Loki was constantly associated with sorcery in Norse mythology, and sorcery was strongly associated with "ergi"="effeminacy, perversion." In the Eddic lay of "Lokasenna" (basically, "How Loki insulted all the other gods"), Odinn mentions that at one point Loki "spent eight winters on the earth milking cows as a woman and bore children there." The point is that to the Norsemen, bisexuality/homosexuality (at the very least in the submissive rôle) were signs of grave evil and dishonor, suitable to the evil figure whose traditional poetic paraphrases included "Father of Monsters: the Monster of Ván (that is, Fenris-Wolf), the Vast Monster (that is, the Midgard Serpent), and of Hel; Evil Companion; Thief of the Giants, of the Goat, of Brísinga-men, and of Idunn's Apples; Foe of the Gods; Forger of Evil, the Sly God; Slanderer and Cheat of the Gods; Contriver of Baldr's Death; and Wrangling Foe of Heimdallr and of Skadi"; and whose loosing signaled Ragnarök, the destruction of the gods and of the entire world. To the Norse, Loki is not a charming Tom Hiddleston; he's a literal monster, and his perverse sexuality is only one more example of that.
But does it really count as bisexuality when you change your physical body for it? Every documented instance of Loki boning was heterosexual. If anything it just shows how little he actually cares about others with how often it was accidental like with the horse or for the specific purpose of making world ending monsters
@@Lyth13 You have to decide that yourself, the people who invented these stories aren't here to tell you their intent with Loki or detail about how "he's supposed to be"
this is a common trope in a lot of myth stories, that the king god man has a strong masculine son, and a somewhat sickly effeminate son. Dark Souls being a good example. If you think about a pantheon as a single person's psychology, with the king being the pure spirit of "father" which is not necessarily your exact father but the collective wisdom of all fathers (hence Odin The "All-Father"), if a person is unable to integrate these different parts of psyche, all of which are necessary, then the world crumbles. This is what the anima and animus, the shadow, the id and the ego are all being represented by. The masculine son and effeminate son need to integrate and replicate the father, which they cant because theyre both incompatable (both males), and even if one of them was female it would still be incest which means corruption due to the "established order" folding into itself rather than expanding appropriately, which would be to adapt accordingly to the new world because the old world that the all-father inhabited isnt the same one. It would be like insisting that smell is what transmits disease and not germs. If you follow that idea then your society will suffer more, and likely be taken over by societies that conform better to new discovery. But the point being made with the 2 sons story is that it is inevitable that Ragnorak will come, and everything will be wiped clean and started again, hence the orouboros, such is the cycle of empires and kingdoms all over the world, because people are not eternal, and are not carbon copies of what came before, and neither can they be because the landscape of the world changes and needs to be adapted to otherwise its also death.
my comment was more a masturbatory experience to help me place all these things rather than a reply, but maybe its interesting to you and others
Actually, there's a good deal of debate over whether Loki was depicted as the 'evil one' by the original Norse, or if that is something attributed to him largely by the christian monks who are the only written sources for Norse myths available to modern scholars. Such monks are notorious for trying to fit christian ideas into pagan stories, equating characters like Loki with the devil, and characters like Baldur with Christ in order to make the myths sound just like fan fictions of the bible, and thus making it easier for converts to accept christian ideas.
@@khodexus4963 yeah, surprisingly not all religions have a cut and dry evil entity, it even a good one.
So glad to see nerdotic portrayed as someone who is voicing their opinions and not as someone who is attacking people
It becomes a little more disturbing if you consider that: Loki having Sleipnir wasn't part of his plan, and that he normally takes the short end of the stick ... you can conclude that he was most likely RPd!
Now, think the implications of making those allegations in this context.
Loki did the deed so he wouldn't get got. A decision made under threat shouldn't be considered valid.
Most people seen to forget that people view on sexuality more than 2000 years ago wasn't the same as ours.
I've always adored how messy older mythology.
Anyway, lovely video! The appearance of Literature Angel was funny!
i thought loki was a kinky freak and left at that, but this was a definite eye opener thank you LD for the info
@Heavy Metal Pulp true that
"And Loki nursed his resentments."
Really? No one's gonna say it? Okay then.
Nursed, huh? I see what you did there. For my part, I was already aware of the Sleipnir myth before the MCU became a thing, and at the time I already had an interest in shamanism and the like, so it didn't come across as that far out of left field. It was more a story about clever use of shapeshifting, and that's not something exclusive to Loki or even to Norse mythology.
Also, if they want to rely on the myths to make Loki bi, then why can't the fans rely on the myths to insist that Heimdal be the palest of the gods?
In the first Thor movie Odin rides an eight-legged horse) I know who Sleipnir is and found it pretty funny)
Any time you should bring up a Mary Sue, you should say Mar-RAY Sue
Man I want more LD content.
Also amazeing vid dude
8:39 I'm listening to this entire story, and THIS IS THE TYPE OF STUFF I WOULD WATCH IN MARVEL, if they had competent writers and didn't throw all their scripts into prompts for text AI
Loki: The God of Mischief and Evil with a vast amount of magical powers and cool dark magic looking magical beams. What would the first thing Marvel would do for his show?
Kate Herron and Michael Waldron: he’s bisexual now, and gets easily beaten so we can give him this pathetic green blob of magic and a female version of himself that’s better than him, because of course…
Imagine walking away from the story where Loki had to get molested by a horse or die, and thinking, "oh my God that is totally me!"
Loki is a weird one in mythology. Both a "mother of monsters", a hearthfire keeper, and trickster.
"Loki once gave birth to a horse, therefore bi..."
That's like saying...
"Person once got brutally raped, therefore, into BDSM."
it's more like "person got brutally raped, therefore, likes tequila"
@@nuclearsimian3281 Loki was _quite literally_ raped by the horse.
@@nuclearsimian3281 Technicaly Loki was raped he didnt laid by own desire, in fact he run trying of scape from the horse
@@ElPerpuli From how I remember it, his main intention was to distract the horse for as long as possible rather than escape it (it was being used by a giant to build a wall) I think the part where he was leading it away was part of his plan at least but I don’t remember any version of the myth making it clear how much consent was actually involved. Honestly I kinda got the impression he just gave so few shits about the deprave act that went on with it for the sake of Asgard’s plan to screw their giant contractor over, as Opposed to any real attraction.
I mean, they might as well have said "Fifty Shades of Grey" is the Golden Standard for BDSM relationships and it wouldn't have been much worse of a statement. If at all.
In the end I'd prefer Myth Loki because hes all doing a little bit of trolling.
I think the myth of Loki and how Sleipnir was born shows one of the reasons this trickster god is evil. Sleipnir was his son, and he gave him away as a gift. Yes, he was a horse, but could he not have nurtured Sleipnir himself? The foal was fond of him after all.
He's getting that from Neil Gaiman's book because that is not in the original myth . Actually many think it is implied to be straight up rape and thus the child is a product of rape hence the giving it away.
@@MyaKHamilton
Haha what? Rape? That is a strange interpretation.
Haven't read the Neil Gaiman edition, but Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda isn't much different from what was described in the video. Even going to the Poetic Edda we don't get too far from base.
Even if it was rape in the proto-myth from which these others come, does that make Loki less of an evil trickster god? He still has a slew of other myths.
I won't deny that Loki as bad things but at the same time the other gods have done truly horrible hings as well like odin bragging about raping dozens of women. One of odin's names literally translates to evil doer. Honestly I judge a God based on what they do to humans and Loki doesn't do much of anything to humans right up until Ragnarok happens. The problem with calling Loki or any of the other Norse gods for that matter evil is the fact that they're not benevolent in the 1st place. Literally the myth were Loki insults all the gods is at the same time the same myth he calls them out for all of their wrong doings like Njorth, Freyr, and Freyja committing incest and Freyr forcing a woman to marry him.
@@MyaKHamilton
For sure! All Norse gods were definitely weird!
I'm curious by the way; where can I find this interpretation that Loki was raped by Svadilfari? I have never seen such an article and now I am intrigued to know how that conclusion was reached.
Great topic LD
Since most viewed of your video is about writing prompt, how about best way of "Do (not) Show, Do (not) tell"
What I got out of the story about Loki and the Builder was not his personal proclivities, but rather "If you wanna pull a big heist, you gotta take a small hit."
It got even worse for Loki later on. After Loki had an affair with a Giantess, producing 3 monstrous children by her, Odin immediately banished two and later had the third chained up in Valhalla. They were Hel Queen of the Dead, Jormungandr the World Serpent, and Fenris the Wolf. After Loki engineered the death of Balder his two sons by his wife Sigyn both meet bad ends. Vali was killed and his hide used to create the bindings to confine Loki while Narfi was turned into a wolf.
No wonder Loki wanted Valhalla and everyone in it to BURN!!!👿
@Heavy Metal Pulp The same can be argued with Greek Mythology. It's kind of a common trope about destiny, apparently.
An unbridled rage AND a new LitDev upload in the same day?
I thought I was still in August, cuz this feels like Christmas.
The Silence of the Lambs is an under appreciated movie! I love the video LD!
Edit: Also, Gaiman’s weird politics aside, the audiobook of his Norse Mythology is well worth a purchase! I had a great time listening to it.
My favorite part of Norse mythology was when Loki said, "It's Lokin' time," and then Loki'd all over that horse.
Truly one of the moments of all time
I knew the original myth of Sleipnir, but i hadn't heard of that last part until this video.
Yeah, I’ll watch this again.
Having read these myths in grade school, have to 100% agree that people who think Loki giving birth to a horse or Thor disguising himself as a bride are justification for the current nonsense are intentionally ignorant of the source material. There's no excuse to be misinformed here. Also, it constantly amuses me how people continue to idolize the character in Norse Mythology that's the closest allegory to Christianity's Satan. There used to be this saying, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people he didn't exist." I'm starting to wonder if we don't need a new updated version of that saying, something to the effect of, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people that not only was he no devil, but that they should idolize him."
Or, better "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people he was a homosexual."
Fun fact: It was Loki's impregnation from a stallion that inspired the Bull-Rapes-Man-Dressed-As-A-Cow scene from 1984's spoof film 'Top Secret!'
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Okay I made that up..
I dunno, wouldn't Loki being the trickster god make him the patron of all traps?
(Joking Obviously)
Also funny: in mythology, just before Ragnorokk, Odin brings up the fact that Loki mothered his horse, and Loki gets pissed at him saying so. This informs us that he's...embarrassed. Oh my.
Talk about taking one for the team
Yo, great video. Thanks for clearing this up for me. I had a gut feeling that something was off about "Loki's bisexuality," but I couldn't put my finger on it. 👌❤️
Nice, Capital Topic once again LD
"It's not gay because I had to do it."
"You could have brought a female horse and spruced her up with your magic if that wasn't good enough for the stallion, why was your first choice: "I will get fucked"?"
Well that's one one way to dumbfound a god, and make one your enemy for life.
Maybe loki isn't as smart as being the trickter god would make you think he is. should have thrown his eye down a well for wisdom like Odin did before concocting his plan.
i love norse mythology, there a few soup opera people could make with the Siefried and the valkyries.
It's sigurd, siegfried was the German hero
Awesome job
Great video, but I should point out one small detail you might have missed, though probablu for time: it was Loki's plan to put Thor in a bridal gown, and Loki went as his "handmaiden." Good ol' Loki and his shenanigans!
So Loki's whole escapade here is this: Druid casts wild shape horse to lure in horse to steal, accidentally choose a mare form while making mating calls, horse goes in for the call.
And unfortunately, that horse went in hard.
@@b3rz3rk3r9 hey I had to say the druid joke. Probably Feywilde druid.
@Heavy Metal Pulp you missed the obvious D&D joke.
Funnily enough, Loki could be considered gender fluid, as he changes his gender often to fit his need. Usually though, when Loki actually has ***business*** with someone, he usually does it in the opposite gender of them, only doing it when need be, not because he wants to perhaps. One key thing to note about this too. When loki, and sometimes his children, shapeshift, they actually gain the attractions, urges, and behaviors more befitting of that gender. (Please don't start on the whole "gender is a construct" rant because it's really not. I just don't want to start that argument.)
He's the god of trickery though
I love how we have differing opinions, yet most of what you say I agree with. And even the things I don't, you present in a reasonable and fair argument.
I forget which video I was watching, but you compared several good older comics to several mediocre modern comics. I thought, "well, it's not exactly fair to compare clearly better comics to clearly worse ones..." Then it occurred to me, that was your point. I didn't realize how stongly the liberal brainwashing affected me.
Of course, my dumb liberal idea is, we want experienced writers to include diverse people, because the ones who are writing that way are not great writers. Yet. It's more timely for experienced writers to include diversity, than writers who already do so to develop their writing skills. They will eventually, but it would be nice sooner.
Keep making quality videos with valid arguments.
Most of the translations make it sound like Loki was basically raped. He turned into a mare just to get the stallion away.
I had to pause it after "doing things far too unsavory for RUclips, like Loki" to laugh.
My favourite part in all of this is how easy Literature Devil takes Twittard delusional arguments
and, without losing his smile, courteously tears them apart with the expertise of a craftsman.
Battles for our culture are to be performed with the utmost respect.
Especially against the Barbaric 280-Character Squad,
who willfully submitted themselves to Darwinism.
This is why I subbed.
That and the laugh, of course.
Good video LD!
Loki getting banged by a horse is easily one of the most hilarious stories in all human mythology.
Nice reference to Gary from Nerdrotic.
I believe this video is what is known as a "knowledge bomb." Perfectly delivered, as always!
Can’t wait
To be fair, an adaptation of the Loki thing would still be a better movies than the Eternals, Captain Marvel and the weird witch TV show
"It aligns with the original mythology" is a bit of a cop-out. I remember a certain guardian of the rainbow, who was described as 'the whitest of all gods' whose appearance was changed away from aligning with the original mythology, to allow for progressive politics. Now, don't get me wrong, Idris Elba utterly rocked the role. But you can't tell me 'acshually this aligns with the original myth' now, because I know they care exactly zilch for it. Can't have it both ways.
So Odin wanted to Make Asgard Great Again?
I love Odin's Skyrim accent!
I love how the Norse stories are just the Norse gods messing up and making Loki fix it.
Awesome video mate.
I've often wondered what countries who once worshipped the Norse Gods for real think of the use of the mythos in Marvel movies.
I'm so glad you mentioned the Thor bride story. It annoyed me so much when they turned Thor into a woman, given that bit of lore
If you haven't read neil gaiman's norse mythology i recomend it. Very enjoyable.
One thing I find funny is they built a wall around midgard out of eyelashes but the wall around Asgard is built out of normal stuff like granite
It's also worth noting that within Marvel canon, mythology is based on a real civilization and is ultimately a collection of interpretations by people who had no way of understanding the infinitely complex technology at play and is hailed as magic. So who's to say Loki didnt use his "magic" to bioengineer an eight legged horse and it was written down as a birthing because they had no other explanation for it?
I mean, I think you can use the elements of Loki's character such as shapeshifting and giving birth to monsters (not to mention the trickster archetype often likes to mess around with "roles" in general) to explore gender fluidity, but to make him out as bi rep because he had sex with a horse suggests they probably didn't think too deeply about it.
In Lokasenna Odin also accuses Loki of shapeshifting into a milkmaid and having children with mortal men, and Loki retorts by saying that Odin wears womanly clothes (robes) in order to practice sorcery. There's also an old Norse tradition of calling orphans whose mothers are unknown "Loki's children."
This really has nothing to do with wokeness, and even if we discount the Slepinir incident, mythical Loki has always been transforming into women and f**ked by men, voluntarily so. Not that it's portrayed as a positive trait when told by Viking storytellers, though.
(Source: Am a Norse mythology fan)
Except that doesn't prove their argument because Loki literally becomes a biological female Which would mean when hes having sex with a male it is heterosexual sex. He shows no interest in males when hes a male Nor any interest in females when he turns into a female . In a way one could argue hes more like some of those species of fish that can change their sex whenever they want. I don't think we can apply a term like bisexuality to a God you're God because how do we know that there are more like a human in that way than say a fish.
Add: I honestly take this one with a pinch of salt because we have no other source for this myth and clearly odin is using this as a deflection because Loki started out by yelling at him for his treatment of humans In war. On top of that we don't even have the full story just this little part of it. Also, the text never mentioned sleeping with men at all And I find it ironic that people forget that Loki can actually Get pregnant without a partner Since he does so according to odin By way of eating some random witch's heart.
Another great video friend! It also irks me that people get mythologies wrong in general to fit their narrative. Don't think marvel was the only one who did that with loki and the Norse gods
Rick Riodan, the author of the Percy Jackson series, wrote a spin off story called magnus chase. He was part of the Norse aspect of the world (he was the son of a summer God or something) he eventually meets a daughter of loki who is............ *sigh* gender fluid. The reason? It's cuz she's a shape-shifter and she's constantly changing forms, including between male and female
People online are all "see it makes sense! Loki is gender fluid too!"
................ loki is a shape shifter because, say it with me now, HE'S A TRICKSTER GOD! He changes into whatever form he needs to create mischief and pulling off pranks to the other gods. By the end of it he's still a he
The fact that his daughter (yes they even called her that at first) can't make up her mind when it comes to her form shows how weak her self identity is.
Granted I only read the first book and I didn't even finish it cuz I got bored. Maybe the later books might explore it further and she's actually a good character. But the way the book introduced her made me lose both my interest and my respect for the author. He was supposed to be a man who researches mythologies thoroughly to make the story work, but lately he's gone woke. I used to revere his craft, now I hate it and that's just disappointing
"Technically correct; the best kind of correct!"
Oh well. But hey, cool to see the context returned to clear up surface-level misconceptions
I really enjoyed this video, I'm too lazy to do any of this research myself, so I'm glad you did all the heavy lifting.🤭😁👋
The Gods "BUILD A WALL."
After watching this I'm thinking "How the hell do you get Bisexual from a man being fucked by a horse?" the lengths people go to is unreal.
Thank you
lol the fact that there are people who think loki is NOT woke when you have the writer say that their following loki sexuality !?
Here's the thing, We can't really explain Loki's Sexuality in ways like humans. He's a God, and he is known to have sex with
anything with a Pulse. People keep mentioning he had sex with a horse but forget to mention That Loki Spent 8 years in the form of a woman/Milkmaid While he had been having Sex with Men and having their babies, Odin exposed his affair during an argument.
Example:
Source:
In the Lokasenna, Odin claims that Loki spends 8 winters underground, "milking the cows as a maid" and bearing children:
Loki spake:
22. "Be silent, Othin! | not justly thou settest
The fate of the fight among men;
Oft gavst thou to him | who deserved not the gift,
To the baser, the battle's prize."
Othin spake:
23. "Though I gave to him | who deserved not the gift,
To the baser, the battle's prize;
Winters eight | wast thou under the earth,
Milking the cows as a maid,
(Ay, and babes didst thou bear;
Unmanly thy soul must seem.)"
Source: Poetic Edda/Lokasenna, Wikisource.
The claim that Loki gave birth is repeated by Njörðr:
Njorth spake:
33. "Small ill does it work | though a woman may have
A lord or a lover or both;
But a wonder it is | that this womanish god
Comes hither, though babes he has borne"
So yes, Loki has Sex with both Women, Men, and animals. The thing is Loki is not into the LQBTQ community that Tumbler and Twitter likes to toot a lot; he's not into pronouns or anything as stated in the comics; it's not in his culture...He just wants to Bang anything with a Pulse.
God, I really hate when people say he'll Bang anything or the pulse when that implies hes done with both pedaphilia and Incest But we know that he might very well not like incest since he insults the shit out of 3 of the other gods for doing it.
Fair enough. I’ve never had an issue with Loki being portrayed as bi-sexual since one of the aspects of trickster gods is the breaking of societal norms. But I do think it’s fair to push back against those attempting to use the horse story as proof of bisexuality - if it were to prove anything (which it doesn’t given the whole threat-of-death thing) it would prove beastiality. And the Thor as bride incident definitely doesn’t prove anything other than that crossdressing as a form of deception is an old, old, old trope.
Loki getting it from a horse doesn’t make him bi. He’s a furry! 🤣🤣🤣
Loki has given birth multiple times before
These modern day writers don’t understand that the stories of old were told in a metaphorical sense. These idiots don’t research or aren’t competent enough and take the things that happened as a literal interpretation and in doing so they loose the true meaning. When they try to write these characters, the characters come off as one dimensional because of self inserting themselves
You should do a voiceover for the zoobooks commercials.
So, I had no idea who Literature Devil was until I saw him on a livestream the other day. He said a line that I thought was perfect, this might not be word for word but the line was. “All of the woke stuff we are getting is built out of spite, not passion.” He earned my sub just for that. This stuff is cancerous to storytelling. Even if you take the modern politics out you are left with uninspired, and unoriginal trash, since all they can do is pick the bones of older franchises, created by people who were far more talented. I was taught, that instead of wanting to just retell Star Wars for example, we should be looking to create the next Star Wars. There is a real danger in going back to the same old well. I’m really excited to get into this channel.
I forgot to mention how incredible this video was. Great examples, and point’s right out of the gate. A lot of people could learn from this guy.
High quality video