I find it interesting that your vpn ads actually follow your advice on narrative. Demonstrating both critical and creative understanding. Well done Lit Dev. Well done indeed.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the conclusion but I do disagree with the pretense. That the fight between Obiwan and Anakin are just hitting each other with swords. There’s the segment where Anakin is choking Obiwan which elicits fear and then Obiwan breaks out of the hold which elicits excitement. We get a brief kicking intermission to break up the hitting with swords before Anakin goes flat on his back, the battle swinging in Obiwan’s favor. Anakin manages to block the blow from his disadvantaged position and then we get the force push off where we see they are equals. Anakin rebounds much quicker and immediately puts Obiwan on the back foot, swinging the battle back to Anakin. The overarching narrative of the fight is more than just hitting each other with swords as well. Obiwan constantly moving backwards symbolizes his reluctance to fight Anakin and Obiwan being the one to relocate the fight every time shows that he has a broader perspective than Anakin who relentlessly and mindlessly pursues his enemy. This narrative retroactively continues into Episode 4 where Obiwan is willing to sacrifice himself to let Luke escape while Vader is only concerned about striking down his enemy. The visual progression can’t be understated as well. When the fight begins both Anakin and Obiwan are fresh Jedi in their pristine robes and all of their moves are snappy and precise. Throughout the battle Obiwan gets more and more weary and scorched while Anakin devolves more and more into a ferocious beast. A Sith Lord consumed by rage. This fight is most certainly a spectacle but credit is deserved when it’s due.
Was literally about to write something like this, then i saw your post^^. There are also 2 reason which i think limit the options the filmmakers had in terms of "changing who has the upper hand" and "changing the emotion of the audience". The first is that canonically, Obi-wan and Anakin used drastically different lightsaber fighting styles. With Obi-wans form, you basically go 100% defense, and only ever try to win by getting your opponent to exhaust themself to the point of presenting easy openings. You dont try to defeat your opponent, you are trying to outlast them, basically. Anakins lightsaber form is based on physical domination, offense and power. It tries to dominate the fight, by not holding anything back. With a combination of styles like that, you wouldnt expect to see constant shifts in who has the upper hand. It will pretty much be an onslaught of attack from anakin, and if he can score a hit before he will get to exhausted, he wins. thats it. The second - and more important - reason has to do with the audience, not the show itself: The movies being prequels, we know the outcome of the fight before hand. We cannot be afraid that Obi-wan will get chocked out and killed, or have his head chopped off, or loose a limb. We know he will survive this fight, with no - at least physical - lasting injuries. We also arent rooting for one character specifically here (yes Obi-wan is more of a protagonist then Anakin at this point, but its not nearly as clear an in most anime, where the 100% hero fights the 100% villian). We are to some degree invested in both of these characters, and are merely watching the tragedy unfold as to how they ended up as mortal enemies.
So I'm going to pull a bit of a bait and switch here, I completely agree with the assessment of the fight scene, what I disagree on is the assessment... For the sand scene! No, I'm not kidding, though I do admit the dialogue is clumsy, there is a point to it beyond Anakin telling us that he loves Padme. It serves to both establish how different Padme's upbringing was to Anakin's, why does a young child who was enslaved and whose only way out is to fashion a working pod racer from scraps hate sand that is rough and coarse and gets everywhere? I'd honestly ask how you'd expect he wouldn't, the very thing Padme wouldn't even consider important in the story is something that brings back unpleasant memories for Anakin. Furthermore, since this scene is in the second movie of the trilogy which begins with a massive time-skip, it can feel divorced from the events of the first movie, even more so because Anakin was technically not the focus character there, it is important to drive home how Anakin feels about his old life and his desire to move on and fully immerse himself in this new life of his, only for his new life to be brought to shambles by the oncoming catastrophe that is Shmi's death, Anakin wanted to leave Tatooine (a desert planet) behind, only to be pulled back into it by force. This doesn't mean that the scene is perfect, much like a lot of the dialogue in the prequels, it's very stilted and the direction leaves much to be desired, but the purpose of the scene is very much solid.
Even if you disagree with Literature Devil on the "boring assessment", keep in mind what's worth taking away from this video: He teaches you how to write better fight scenes.
Oh he's got good writing tips but his analysis of the fight is clearly warped by his dislike. "They start here and clash, they move here and clash, they move there and clash" he's totally ignoring the actual progression happening in the fight, that with each scene location they are getting less and less complicated in their techniques, getting more worn out and less refined. What Lucas was doing there was trying to bring the audience into the fight, make them feel what anikin and obiwan we're feeling. Some people checked out emotionally others didn't. And that i think is the difference between finding this the best and saddest duel in star wars or the most boring.
@@Direwolf1166 The problem is the fight doesn't really have ebb and flow. They seem too evenly matched, without anyone ever gaining an advantage over the other. So it basically comes off as two people stage fighting up until the point where one of them is supposed to die. And even the death scene is done in a really stupid non-sensical fashion. So while visually impressive, it isn't as dramatically impressive. The Yoda/Palpatine fight did a lot better in that regard where we see one side in triumph only for it to switch to fear and desperation when the other side gets the upper hand.
@@Direwolf1166 Eb and Flow help the audience stay attuned to the fight. If a fight scene wears you down rather than give you an emotional response, you check out faster if it doesn't feel there are greater stakes at every stage, and you can convey wear down even with a dance. Even a moment of furious wild striking and attempts to block those strikes and a moment where he's slashed by one strike in a nonlethal way, can help convey that even wild attacks are getting through Obi Wan's mind and focus, showing he's slowing down, as wild striking from Anakin shows he's desperate to even hit Obi Wan. If you want a dance, you need to know how to dance, or otherwise it's not a proper dance.
I’ll try writing a conclusion. Anakin was filled with fury. His rage coursed through his blood like lava as he held out his remaining, human, hand. Obi-Wan’s eyes widened with shock as he saw the lava start to rise around Anakin’s piece of floating debris. “You thought you were safe up there?” Anakin said arrogantly as the lava rose with his platform until he was eye level with his former master. “You underestimated just how powerful I truly am!” Obi-wan deactivated his lightsabers and raised his arms in front of him. “Anakin, please, don’t do this, I don’t want it to end like this.” Anakin laughed. It was exhilarating to see his old master trembling before him, begging for his life. “We both know it’s too late for that. You made a big mistake following me.” He raised his arm and the lava pillar began to move towards the Jedi while continuing to rise to even greater heights. Suddenly, he felt a burning sensation in his right leg. He looked down and realized at once what had happened. “Deep down, I knew it was too late when I arrived. I just wanted to hold out hope.” Obi-wan fell to his knees as he watched the fire trail up Anakin’s legs. All he did to defeat his padawan was move his leg slightly with the force. Just enough of a push to get his robes to catch on fire. The inferno would do the rest. However, Anakin was not content to burn. He raised up his hand and began slowly closing in on Obi-wan’s windpipe. “If I die here, at least I’ll die knowing that the Jedi die too!” Obi-wan suddenly activated his lightsaber and threw it at his former apprentice. Anakin was too shocked to do anything as he felt the blade sever his arm. He let out a guttural scream, but he was powerless. Suddenly, the lava pillar began to fall as Anakin was no longer able to use the force to stabilize it. Obi-wan used the force to quickly catch his lightsaber once more and quickly retrieved Anakin with the force. As he lifted the smoldering Sith, he saw the flaming remains of his legs burn off and fall into the lava. Obi-wan saw the fire go out as his old friend lay motionless on the ground. He turned the body over to look into the eyes of the fallen Jedi. “I know you can’t hear me, but I truly wanted to save you.” With that he set down the husk of his former brother as he walked back to the destroyed facility where this awful encounter started.
I like it. Expresses the characters well, and fits with what LitDevil established. Also, it addresses.... "...from my point of view, you have the lava ground!"
There's no shift in the power dynamic of the battle until the very end because Obi-Wan is constantly on the backfoot, literally and narratively, every source (including himself) says he is Anakin's inferior in almost every way, he never gets the upper hand on Anakin because he can't, he can only survive against him. In the end it was Anakin's arrogance that defeated him, not Obi-Wan, so it was never really a conventional fight between equals.
Honestly not really. Or at least the battle doesn't convey that. Yeah, Anakin is without a doubt the more aggressive one, but you don't really get the sense that Obi-Wan is having a lot of difficulty blocking his attacks. But that's how you'd expect a battle between a rage-filled sith and a focused jedi to be. They seem more or less evenly matched. The fight doesn't have a back and forth. The term "hitting swords" describes it perfectly.
.."you've become a far better jedi then I (could ever be)" I struggle to believe that Obi would say that just to make Ani feel better. I agree with Orangutan
@@taragnor The choreography always, always, ALWAYS has Obi Wan giving ground. It’s very explicit that Obi Wan is just skilled enough to not die, but not enough to put any pressure on Anakin, whereas Anakin is never tiring.
02:45 If you think about it that sand line sets up how selfish and bad at romance Anakin is. I think it's an important line in the movie. It immediately tells us why Anakin is so focused on Padme, that she was the first beautiful thing he'd seen or focused on in his life after being a slave, and now he's obsessed.
I always thought it represented his trauma over having been a slave, and the fact that his anxious attachment pattern originated from his unfinished business in Tatooine. Which played out in the worst possible way later in the movie
Lucas' failures were twofold: the first was relying too much on spectacle, the second was forgetting that not everyone is in his head. The "I hate sand" line was, I believe, meant to show that Anakin makes everything about himself. That there's something fundamentally wrong with him and even when he's with the person he loves most in the world he has to make the story about him. That makes his ultimate sacrifice in Return of the Jedi all the more meaningful. But while Lucas' dialogue has always been somewhat wooden, he'd been so deep in these characters that he forgot to explain things more clearly to the audience. Because an audience, confronted with stilted dialogue, is more likely to believe that this is just surface-level stuff and not look into it for the deeper context. The fight scene went on for too long and relied on too much acrobatic spectacle when in the OT lightsaber fights were philosophical conflicts punctuated with violence. The "high ground" bit was just dumb, but the arguments and Obi-Wan screaming lent to the fact that the Jedi had been falling apart long before Anakin ever showed up, and everything was coming undone. It's weird because I'm not defending the scene, and think that overall the prequels failed due to preventable issues, but they have a lot of good hidden within them.
In regards to Lucas showing aspects of his characters through dialogue, Lucas's mistake imo, was that he rarely ever had his other characters react to the things he was trying to put forward for us to notice. I've always said that Padme was actually the wooden character, not Anakin. Anakin was always saying and doing cringy things, as he should have being a monk with no romance experience, but Padme only ever rebuffed or resisted him out of her duty as a senator, not the fact that he was awful at courting her. I just wanted one line of her pointing out how bad at trying to be romantic Anakin was, or something calling out how he always focused on himself. Instead, she was always supporting him and every time he voiced his own doubts about how he felt or what he was doing she'd just say crap like "You're expecting too much of yourself."
I think you'll find this point interesting concerning Anakin's response to Padme: ruclips.net/video/B8MY5dgoT9U/видео.html Anakin Didn't 'Turn' into Darth Vader, He Always was Him: Star Wars Character Analysis "Anakin makes everything about himself"--Fact Check: True.
I actually think the “I hate sand” lines were a very clumsy attempt by George Lucas to humanise Anakin. He’s originally from a sand planet where nothing good ever really happened for him and his comment makes sense; unfortunately the seed of an idea here wasn’t fleshed out enough to offer the audience anything but memes.
It’s kanda sad apparently in the rots novel it was more like obi wan on the constant defence only being able to do so by him having mastered the most defensive lightsaber form. Which is also why he was sent to kill grievous due to him being a non force user lightsaber duellist he had to overwhelm his opponents to stop them from tapping into the force which he couldn’t do which obi wan. Which is also why the most dangerous general in the separatist army who had a Jedi kill count only second to Darth vader was swept away like a gimmick side villain. Which he honestly is on a casual watching of the movies. But to conclude my comment with the weird tangent even in the more fleshed out novel there was only ever one real shift in the balance of the fight from obi wan being on the defensive to him obtaining the memed to oblivion high ground.
Personally I disagree that it’s boring, it’s what the entire trilogy was building up towards and while all the laid groundwork along with the execution throughout the previous two films leading into the final battle could have been handled MUCH better; the end results still have enough impact to last.
Hence the criticism. It would turn that fight from "it all comes down to this, it's inevitable, but the overall emotional investment is aggressively mid", changing the latter part to "...and the back and forth of emotional investment in the narrative, along with the choreography of the fight, made it worth the wait".
I actually fast forwarded through much of the fight because I was bored with it. Please keep in mind that I think the prequels were so bad that after TPM I refused to see them in theaters. So, I wasn't even remotely invested in the movie. I expected episode 3 to be bad but I was surprised that it was only mediocre.
More to the point, Lucas had many years previous told fans that Vader was crippled by a fall into a volcano, and the battle had to end with that. But it had to get us there first, and what I saw was a pair of combatants, evenly matched in skill and power, one perhaps a little reluctant to kill, and the other overwhelmed by anger and hatred. It was Anakin's anger which ultimately defeated him, when he threw away tactics and just leaped at Obi Wan, who had already warned him that it was over. Did that "high ground" thing make any sense? Perhaps not, but the elements were there, if not very aptly handled, and perhaps overplayed for screen time. What I would like to hear from Literature Devil is a critique of the fight with Qui Gon, Anakin, and Darth Maul, which was MUCH better, even though the results were tragic. ='[.]'=
Anakin, remembering how he had the upper hand while using debris as a weapon lifts as many rocks as he can from the shore and launches them at Obi-Wan. During this time Obi-wan is telling him how foolish he was to think Anakin could handle the power of the force, no wonder the council wouldn't accept him as Master, no wonder he was so easily corrupted.. We can't truly see what happens as Anakin unleashes all his anger at Obi-Wan, the dust and debris clouds Anakin's vision as you begin to hear rocks settling... Or noises that could be mistaken for rocks cracking and sliding As the cloud clears you hear Obi-Wan say, "I'm sorry Anakin, I loved you like a brother" a tower of stone that was behind Obi-wan is falling towards Anakin. Having been destabilized by his own actions. He tries to jump out of the way and he lands seemingly safe, the tower hitting the river next to him. As the stone impacts lava comes flying out of the river and hits Anakin facing us as we see his eyes burn with the color of the sith. Not that far from the color of mustafar and the fire that quickly consumes him On the other side of the hill, where Obi-Wan had simply slid down to get out of the way we can see tears quietly falling, creating the only clear spots on his soot covered face Anakin's screams of pain and rage quiet down as he seemingly dies. Obi-wan obviously grieving, but with a steely determination heads toward his ship
I like that idea. It seems to fit well with what both characters would do and has the added bonus of Anakin's rage and arrogance getting him literally as well as figuratively.
Ok, so there is a problem with this video in literally the first five minutes. First point: When you say that Anakin sounds like a neckbeard... Wow, is this the first time you realized this? THAT is the actual intention of the scene and always was, Anakin's love for Padme was shown in previous scenes like in the one when he is talking to Obi-Wan on the balcony, but this sand scene establishes that he is not good at romance and (this is important) does not read other people's emotions and feelings well, hence the initially failed romance with Padme (People seem to forget she rejects him early on in the movie). Anakin's inability to communicate reaches its climax in Revenge of the Sith, where even despite Obi-Wan praising Anakin for his humility before he departs for Utapau, Anakin still believes Obi-Wan doesn't trust him (Despite Obi-Wan vouching for Anakin when he is in private with Mace Windu and Yoda on the gunship). You also ignore what happened during the fight: Obi-Wan, a Jedi Master, and Anakin, one rank below at Jedi Knight, both attempt to force push each other, only to match in strength. The intention of this is to show that Anakin and Obi-Wan are actually indeed at the same level despite their ranks and varying levels of experience, Anakin still does have a solid chance at beating Obi-Wan. Anakin monologuing in the middle of the fighr would also ruin the immersion and Anakin's character development: This duel is the representation of both the characters exerting all their strengths to defeat each other. They are not talking for the most part because they are focused on trying to kill each other, and when they are indeed talking its because they can't physically reach each other anymore and they are taking a break (standing on different platforms). By the end of the battle, they are sweaty to the point of shining, greasy, dirt is all over them and their hair is completely messed up. They had no time for dialogue for the most part. Anakin is actually also a man of few but exceptionally honest words, contrasted with Palpatine who is shown to intentionally make empty promises. Even during the fight with Dooku, the only thing he says to the Count is "My powers have doubled since the last time we've met", which is shortly after proven right after he outlasts Obi-Wan and beats Dooku at his own game, showing how much he progressed from AotC. Also for example, when he is with Palpatine, you can see him sometimes suppressing what he wants to say and awkwardly shifting around in his seat. There is actually an interesting point where in Revenge of the Sith he schools Palpatine about the difference between the Jedi and the Sith, resorting Palpatine to use the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise to actually lure Anakin in to become his apprentice. Saying that characters need to talk a lot during the fights misses the point of the Star Wars films: Vader monologues to Luke a lot because he IS more powerful than Luke, Dooku and Palpatine do the same thing a lot because they are or perceive themselves to be more powerful than their opponents. And that is forgetting that a frustrated and a completely fallen Anakin at the end of the Mustafar duel himself says "You underestimate my power", doing the exact thing you said Lucas should have and showing how he feels he has gotten stronger with the dark side, only to be proven wrong and to suffer for that mistake by losing the rest of his limbs and almost dying. In the end, I will say this video itself is emotionally hollow.
Lucas is a bad dialogue writer in general. Ford himself told him as much. I don't believe for a minute the neckbeard-like dialogue was intentional. It was also dated - Anakin's clumsy "with me or against me" line before the fight was a clear reference to then-president George Bush and didn't really make sense in context of the movie.
@@Wintericecrystal Considering Anakin got rejected by Padme shortly after, I am absolutely sure this was intended. Needless to say, before this scene too Anakin looked creepily at Padme, and Padme said to him "Don't look at me like that". If you really think Lucas just wrote that Anakin was creepy "coincidentally", would he really have included Padme telling Anakin to stop ogling at her?
I think the fact that it's a prequel and we already knew the outcome makes it difficult to jump between glad and sad moments. Personally I always saw it as the type of fight scene you'd see with characters fencing. Where the impact is in the drama or witty dialogue exchanged with strikes. The dynamic comes not from the strikes from each equally matched competitor but the retorts that are suppose to throw the other off guard or lose their focus. For Anikin giving in to his anger it would have been easy for Obi-Wan to make him lose his composure and fight sloppily, where in he could slip in dismembering blows.
Alright I'll give it a try, after Anakin summons his Dark power he attacks with force lighting showing how far he has had to tap into the Dark side and feeding off his anger. This in turn was the exact moment Obi-Wan was waiting for, maybe we get a brief sad flashback of Obi-Wan saying he believes Anakin is the chosen one instead of screaming it. He leaps from the high ground now that Anakin has let his guard down severing his other arm and legs still determined not to kill him. Anakin now helpless screams in pain and anger as Obi-Wan turns off his weapon to retrieve him, just then the Emperor arrives with several drop ships of troopers that begin opening fire on Obi-Wan. Taken aback he quickly turns his Lightsaber back on to defend himself but loses his chance to grab Anakin, he is forced up the hillside with one last look at Anakin spitting curses and threats of revenge and flees. The Emperor arrives with his facade of sympathy and compassion we even witness some heroics on the clone troopers part as they brave the lava to save him. We see the grin on the Emperor's face as everything has gone just as he predicted and are left with anger that he appears to have gotten away with it. Just to drive it home I'd add a scene where the Emperor tells the droids repairing Vader to include the weakness to lightning in his suit in case he betrays before walking in full of fake compassion again.
Intresting concept, but I don't like the part where the Emperor drives Obi-wan away. I think it would be better if we saw Obi-wan go down to help Anikin only for Anakin to scream at him. Obi-Wan hesitates. He wavers and we see his outstreched hand towards Anakin. Then he drops it. At that point he decided that there's no saving Anakin anymore. So he takes the lightsaber to kill his friend. He raises it ready to strike but again recalls their past and wavers. Anakin then starts to insult him. Points out the apparent weakness of the Jedi while sliping down further. Then he's too close to the Lava and starts to burn. Obi-Wan only stands there watching in Horror as his friend screames in agony and rage. Eventually it's too much for him and he turns away. What this would do is that it would show how Obi-Wan gave up on his friend. How he recognized there was nobody left to safe. He knows he must kill him. But he still can't bring himself to do it. This would further illustrate the difference between Jedi and Sith and how hard the jedi path is even fir somebody like Obi-Wan. It would also leaves us on a sad note, using the ending to ponder over the characters while you're version would leave us on afraind, ready for more action.
@@lubue5795 There were two things I didn't like going in, the first one was ending on a sad note as the start is sad, the entire fight is sad, and the ending is sad what I want people to feel is angry because this was set up from the beginning. And the second thing I've never felt like fit narratively is Obi-Wan leaving Anakin to die slowly and painfully yet getting a sad note out of it. He's not escaping with no arms and legs well on fire as far as Obi-Wan is concerned, it's supposed to be this sad moment of weakness and yet all I see is unimaginable cruelty to someone he considered a brother and why he supposedly couldn't do it. The Emperor pushing him back accomplishes the same aspect of being unable to kill or save him, is believable and works story wise, but doesn't leave me with that same sour note. Obviously the Emperor was indeed waiting for the fight to end, for Obi-Wan to fail, and to use this to make *his* Vader, but this leaves you with the question of did he intervene because he thought Obi-Wan would finish him? Or that Obi-Wan might save him? That is a better afterthought to me.
@@VioletDeathRei Seems we had very different feelings when watching the scene then. To me the fight was never about sadness in the beginning. The whole fight to me seemd like Obi-Wan trying his best to get his friend back. To let him rage his feelings out, so he would eventually calm down and see what was right to do. Only at the end did he realize he couldn't save his friend and that's when the sadness set it. But before that there was hope for me at least.
@@lubue5795 The fight begins when he chokes the love of his life (nearly) to death, it's not a happy moment nor is it a fearful moment it's just depressing for everyone there and the fight breaks out as the parties involved blame each other. I suppose you could feel angry and Anakin but again this is all set up by the Emperor twisting his fear of what just happened until he fulfilled it personally to make the perfect weapon against the jedi. And ultimately again what I feel isn't driven home feels like 90% of the audience always seems to miss what this scene actually shows is three entire movies spanning the entire length of Anakin's life all set up by the Emperor to have exactly this happen. In the moment people forget that he fed this fear, that he allowed that vision to happen(he was blocking everyone else's), that he befriended Anakin at a young age to be able to swoop in compassionately, that he waited for that moment, that all of this was to make an ultimate weapon that couldn't disobey him. It is his crowning achievement almost more then gaining control of the republic as it prevents the Jedi from striking back this is the Emperor's moment of glory. But to show us this we get a sad Obi-Wan and Vader screaming "Nooooo!" It doesn't bring it home for me, you yourself don't even seem to view it as a major plot point.
Yeah, this one is a miss for me too, I find this fight to be absolutely amazing not only visually but on a thematic and narrative level too. Now the Vader fight from the Kenobi show IS vapid and super boring.
Ok, so looking at it exclusively as a self-contained narrative, agreed. The scene went on too long with no real dynamic shifts. The fight does work better in view of the larger narrative, but yes, it does have its narrative problems, primarily centering on the visual spectacle to reach a conclusion already known to the audience. Love the comparison to the Kenshin/Saitoh fight. Absolutely spot on. (Saitoh is my favorite character from that series.)
Even though I'm a strong advocate for Revenge of the Sith, I actually agree with most of the critiques made here. In fact, there is a fight in Revenge of the Sith that takes place simultaneously as the fight on Mustafar. I'm of course talking about Yoda vs. Sheev in the senate chamber. The fight starts with Yoda ambushing the Emperor by knocking out his guards, which aggravates him, then he retaliates with Force Lightning, knocking Yoda back and onto the floor. We then see Yoda pretending to be incapacitated as Sheev gloats over him, who then springs up and pushes Sheev into his chair. Sheev then tries to make an escape, to which Yoda obstructs him and draws his lightsaber. Sheev responds with his own blade, then they start dueling, stepping into and activating the Chancellor's podium. They seem to be at a standstill, so Sheev starts picking up and throwing senate pods using the Force. Yoda is taken off his feet by this, and has to respond by grabbing one of the thrown pods with the Force. He then spins it around to increase its momentum, before throwing it back at Sheev, who is forced to abandon his position. Sheev then attacks Yoda with Force Lightning at close range, knocking Yoda's saber out of his hand. Yoda responds by using the Force to contain the storm, but it's too much for him, and a powerful shockwave is emitted, knocking Sheev back and Yoda off the pod and back onto the main podium. Yoda tries to hold on with his nails, but falls off and lands on the floor. Admitting defeat, Yoda leaves before Sheev's troops arrive. We know Lucas could create a fight like you were describing, where the balance of power shifts, but for some reason he chose not to when it came to Anakin and Obi-Wan. In fact, one of the few complaints I have about Revenge of the Sith is the apparent lack of Anakin's growing power after turning to the Dark Side.
A friend of mine recently said, the Prequels all needed to be longer movies. More space for things to grow naturally, and of course maybe refined dialogue in places. There's a good story there, just not enough creative accountability to help George more properly tell the story in his head. LOTR had all 3-hour movies and they're masterpieces. The Star Wars prequels could've been the same, or at least ROTS
the final Rob Roy duel is so good, and this video explains why: the power balance starts out even, but shifts to the bad guy as he chips away at Liam Neeson. We get more and more fearful as Liam Neeson bleeds out from every hit. But just as he looks like he's about to fall, he does something unexpected and wins. We jump for joy in gladness.
And as soon as the four emotions showed up, I immediately thought of Athena Sykes from Ace Attorney. Regardless...this was an interesting discussion. It's actually makes sense that even a single scene must have narrative significance by having some change take place.
Hardly I would call that scene boring. Everything can improve allways but fits the narrative. If I changed anything I would make Obi-Wan mention the padawan that anakin kill and how he is ready to slaugther anyone in any number in order to save Padme. That would make the viewer root more for Obi-Wan, just the fact he didn't give him the option to surrender already tells you he need it to fight but didn't want to.
I never thought I'd hear you ever talk about Shadiversity, because I view my interest in medieval history and armorment completely separately from my interest in creative writing, but I think it's super cool that so many different people on this site contribute ideas to each other from places that seem completely unrelated to each other.
I've found most writers throughly enjoy history. It's a past you can extrapolate into a physical future. Hence, understanding how world building means everything.
While We appreciate the advice for writing action, We have to fundamentally disagree with the idea that The Battle of the Heroes needs to be anything like this. The point isn't for you to feel afraid or relieved (part of that is because the ending is a forgone conclusion), the point is that this battle is the culmination of the whole Star Wars saga and that we get to enjoy it with an action fight. It shows Obi-Wan on the defensive because Anakin is his superior, and everything that happens does so because they need to get to point B and they need to make it believable. There is nothing inherently wrong with spectacle without suspense, and it's not forgettable or emotionless just because it doesn't show a shift in power. The whole idea is that We see Anakin's descent to villainy realized and stew in that as we get to enjoy the grandest fight in the greatest cinematic epic ever produced. There is emotion there, and it's great, but why can't We just have a fun action fight? There are plenty of movies with fun action or fights without choreography and emotion directly being tied, and this scene takes nothing away from the movie besides some time.
I think Luo Lang vs. Nanashi from Sword of the Stranger would be a better comparison in terms of how Anakin vs. Obi-Wan should have gone. It is also long and has no dialogue, but every exchange is thrilling in how each opponent creates openings for themselves, only for the other to parry or even reverse the situation, and it does all boil down to one final blow in which the seemingly worthless item Nanashi accepted as payment for his services ends up saving his life.
I think one could also do an interesting alternate comparison on hand-to-hand fights in movies, and how the balance of power can be used for cathartic effect (or more importantly, when done wrong, has a way of sapping the catharsis from the scene). Sometimes hand-to-hand fights want to showcase how powerful the villain is by having the villain land literally dozens of blows on the heroes without receiving a single hit, but as an audience member, you actually just get frustrated, especially if you've come to emotionally hate the villain. Compare that to something like, say, the Police Captain vs Mad-Dog fight half way through the first Raid movie - it's clear throughout pretty much the entire fight that Mad-Dog is going to win, and he absolutely annihilates the Police Captain, however the Mad-Dog character does receive quite a number of blows himself, including a few that looked like they seriously hurt. This works both because it gives you a slight hope that the villain might not win, and it also works because you know that the villain, upon emerging the victor, still suffered some genuine pain, giving some mild emotional satisfaction if nothing else.
I actually thought this was going to be a joke video with lit angel like the Reylo video at first, because I thought the fight was pretty good, esspecially compared to other parts of the prequels and sequel trilogy. Honestly though, I don't disagree with the idea that the fight could have been handled better, with more dynamic changes in power. I'd hesitate to call the fight boring though. The colorful flurishes, frequent repositioning, and hazardous enviernment made it seem fun, even if it was lacking narritivly. Switching the balance back and forth would be a more dynamic way of showing how closely matched they were, I can agree with. This was a more thought provoking video than I thought it would be, that is for sure.
I thought the point of this duel was to show that they are equal in fight and the only thing that could defeat him was not a lightsaber, but his own arrogance.
Obiwan stands on the sure holding two light sabres and urges Anakin to return to the light, telling him its not too late, perhaps saying he sees good in him as Luke would later do. Anakin snarls and Obiwan, telling him he is the master now, and summons all of his dark side potential to shoots force lightning, which Obiwan blocks with the two sabres, however the force of the attack snaps Obiwan's feet out from under him and he starts to slide down the shale slope back towards the Lava, . Anakin glotes, telling Obiwan that he has nothing to learn from obiwan, that he Anakin is now Darth vader, more powerful than a Jedi. Obiwan siezes a fixed boulder on the slope, dropping Anakin's light sabre, and asks his former pupil if he's so powerful, what happened to his wife, where is Padmé? He points out that Padmé loved Anakin, as did he, not Darth vader. enraged, Anakin pulls his sabre back into his hand and leaps towards his master, light sabre ready to cut Obiwan down. obiwan tells him "you've failed darth", And as Anakin lands, reveals that the boulder he is apparently clutching desperately is actually a support strut from the fallen installation buried deep in the rocks of the slope. slicing through it with his light sabre, Obiwan causes an avalanche of rocks to sweep Anakin downwards into the lava. Anakin ends up on his hands and knees, his limbs being burned, just before he is burried in the falling rocks, as Obiwan runs up the slope to safety. The duel ends with Obiwan looking down at the mess of hot rocks and lava covering his former apprentice with a sad look on his face. I chose to construct the scene this way firstly, because Anakin's arogance must be his undoing, and because the theems of this duel should play directly into their next meeting in A new hope, with a far carmer vader now taunting Obiwan who clearly believes he's beyond redemption. Secondly, Anakin's treatment of Padmé should definitely have come up in the fight, since it was supposedly a major part of his character and should've been part of his downfall, particularly because in the film itself, his change from desperate to save his wife to willing to choke his wife realy was a bit of a snap decision, just like murdering the Jedi younglings, although I'll say Matthew Stova does a great job of this in the Revenge of the Sith novelisation. I also wanted Anakin to go completely into his dark side apotheosis, with the implication that this is him at his most powerful, since powerful though Vader is in the rest of the films, obviously being as badly wounded and reconstructed as he was, would have an effect, hence this one time only use of force lightning, which we'd previously seen palpatine use, and which Vader would never use again. Obiwan blocking the lightning and nearly falling down the slope is also a call back to Vader's final defeat of Palpatine in return of the Jedi, (no, it had nothing todo with anything in the Disney trilogy, since as far as I'm concerned Disney starwars isn't cannon).
One fight scene from Western animation that's worth looking at: Merlin vs Madam Mim. Merlin starts on the backfoot, taking evasive forms and smaller ones or faster ones, always dodging until Mim launches him in the air and he casually flattens her under a ton of blubber. Undeterred, she easily grabs him by the throat, forcing him back on the defensive with... a cartoon stereotype that's fallen out of favour, but an effective one, still. Mim is on the offensive for most of that fight. It's only when the crab claws come out that he turns things around, going from one attack to the next, some outright aggression only when he has the opportunity for a decisive blow. And when Mim goes for a cheat based on pure raw power (showcasing her character flaws again), Merlin's counter is arguably another cheat, but a more cerebral one, a cheat a clever wizard would do. Also, the fight only lasts a few minutes, so it doesn't wear out its welcome at all.
Yoda and Palpatine's fight has more ebb and flow like this. Palapatine zapping Yoda, Yoda faking his KO, Palpatine zapping Yoda again, Yoda catches it and tries to close the distance to, Palpatine flinging the senate at Yoda. We switch between glad and afraid until Palpatine wins and we're sad for Yoda.
Yeah, Yoda and Palpatine's fight was very well done in that regard. You see a bunch of times when they surprise each other with various tricks and displays of power, and the momentum of the fight shifts. With Anakin/Obiwan, there isn't that sense of either really being in a desperate spot. Even when both of them were balancing on the platforms on the lava, you never really got the feeling either was getting pressured or knocked back. It was just a pure standstill fight that lacked real tension.
This is a pretty accurate take on the fight and kind of the issue I had before. The fight really didn’t have anything going on outside of the music. Obi Wan and Anakin move to different locations and twirl around but nobody makes any impact towards each other. The fight just drags on until it gets to the end and my biggest disappointment is that it doesn’t take any advantage between the 2 characters or the general idea that it’s 2 former friends battling each other. The confrontation is so incredibly bland and the fight never even tries to attempt to execute the fight to exploit some internalization of each character. I never feel through the whole fight if Obi Wan is struggling with the fact that he’s fighting his own former padawan. Did he ever feel hesitant? Was there another way he could fix thing with Anakin? Has he come to full acceptance that he has to kill Anakin? This is why I fail to see why people say this fight has depth. Ive never seen anyone talk about the internal character work about this fight or how the fight stands out by itself, people only talk about the main idea that this fight was built up to by the movies, and only that the choreography and music is great. I used to love this fight as a child but when I grew up and saw more potential of what action can really do and when I saw more that I was personally interested in. This didn’t age well to me. And that’s where I see where people who love the fight come from, but I feel they have some sort of nostalgic bias growing up with it.
I think you're spot on. Being generous to Lucas, I think the point may have been to show just how in tune they were with one another up to this point, down to having the exact same fighting style and matching each other perfectly on every parry and counter attack.... but if that was the point it didn't land, and spending 6 minutes on making a single character statement is just overkill and ultimately a waste. John Williams, on the other hand, was doing some WORK! xD
@@JadeSun7 John Williams music was slapping. But a great example of 2 characters who are in sync with each other but still try to gain the advantage would be the Obito vs Kakashi fight. you can make a long character statement in a fight but your execution has to be on point.
All in all I agree that there should be more impactful shifts in the balance of power, and more emotional range in this fight. However, I think in your criticism you were being a bit too reductionist. A lot more happened in that fight than just "They Hit Swords". And believe it or not, the Anakin vs Kenobi fight does have shifts in the balance of power, but sadly they don't hold any narrative weight because they lack any lasting or serious consequences (something the sequels also suffer from in abundance). The status quo remains relatively unchanged, aside from them moving out from inside a place of safety to an outdoor hellscape with lava becoming an ever closer threat until the end, with Anakin being consumed by flames. I notice that you didn't change any of that in your rewrite. I wonder why? Maybe because it actually was a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I still really liked this video, and even your rewrite, and I think it prompted some positive things from me too, like the idea that maybe ROTS deserves a deeper look.
Yeah. I just watched it on Fake Fight Commentary and it's uncanny now compared to when it came out. They really like sabre spinning more than attacking too. Guess it's good for ppl that prefer gymnastics or stunt performance to actual fight choreography.
@@vileluca Unfortunately, it is arguable. I'm not gonna hate on anyone liking it. I watched the OSWT after adulthood because I was always a TNG fan first. It's great for it's time and I give it credit for the impact it made on the movie industry but it was never impactful on a personal level to me.
8:07 This man is about to talk about Kenshin v Saito. Bruuuuh, "battojutsu with sword and sheath". I haven't seen Kenshin in decades and that fight still gets me hype.
my attempt at finishing the duel: Obi-Wan, uncomfortable on the loose gravel of the riverbank desperately thinking of a way to avoid the inevitable. "You underestimate my power!' Anakin bellowed. He shifted his weight from one foot to the other, then settled. "Don't try it." Obi-Wan begged. His voice full of emotion he was no longer able to control. Anakin leaped, Obi-Wan aligned the blades with his former padawan's heart, but they were knocked away by Anakin's immense push. Obi-Wan dove to the side of a kick that could've shattered bone, then blasted away a small area of the hillside where he was just standing. A small landslide started which Anakin was caught in. He tumbled down the hill, bones and limbs being crushed by the falling debris until he slowed some rocks with the force, stopping them at the bank. He had partial use of one arm, not enough to get away from the immense heat of the lava. He caught on fire immediately. He screamed out in pain, not kicking and flailing only because he was mostly paralyzed. Obi-Wan knelt down beside him, tears streaming down his face. "I failed you Anakin. I only hope the force will still take you in." He had no time to mourn his pupil's loss. The chancellor would soon sense that something had gone awry. Despite the fight he just had, he found renewed strength. He sprinted the whole way back to Padme who lay dying on the ground. He picked her up and carried her into the ship. He then walked to the cockpit, slumped into the pilot's seat, set a course for Polis Massa. English is my worst subject, so I fully expect this to be trash, lol.
14:02 Instead of Obi-Wan leaping away from Anakin, I would have Anakin lose his cool and tear down the bridge they're standing on. He would use his power to bring it crashing down into the lava river, like throwing the chess board across the room to prevent himself from losing. On another note, my friend pointed out two issues with this whole concept after I described it to him. First: Obi-Wan wouldn't have severed Anakin's robotic arm to spare him, because he already knew Anakin was too far gone. Second: the battle needed to remain stagnant because the point of it was to show that the two of them are evenly matched. I still like this, though, as it makes the whole fight more interesting from start to finish.
Anakin throws chunks of lava at Obi Wan to get the other hand obi-wan drops anakin's lightsaber and when anakin leaps for it well OB one runs for cover . Obi Wan regains his stance faster than anakin's accounts for and Obi Wan comes in chopping off his remaining limbs before he can grab it
So, the last emotional state we had was fear at the ultimate outcome of the battle as we watch Obiwan meditating on his platform above the lava while Anakin's platform drifts closer. When Obiwan gets to the shore, he leaps off, gaining the high ground and now more sure of his final victory. Anakin, however, again delves into his anger and dark Force powers as he treacherously pulls the entire landscape down into the lava. We now hover between mad and afraid (and then pushed more towards mad as Obiwan starts to get burned by being close to the lava while Anakin gloats). We stay there as his arrogance leads Anakin to take back his lightsaber to leap onto the shore and kill Obiwan once and for all. Arrogance because he had the upper hand by not contesting Obiwan's greater experience with a blade with his own, but by leaning into his strengths and greater Force abilities. Abandoning that approach, he sets himself up for Obiwan's last attack, the one that cripples Anakin and wins the day for Obiwan. We go from mad to glad (and then to sad as Obiwan's departing speech and Anakin's rage remind us of everything they've lost and given up).
With Obi-Wan having the high ground, Anakin needs to attack from safety, rather than risk getting into his opponents effective striking zone. Fueled by the powers of the dark side, he attempts something he never tried befor. Something he had both felt on his own flesh, and seen being used by his new master. Stretching out his remaining hand, he unleashes a torrent of lightning. Obi-Wan is able to deflect the first surge using Anakins own lightsaber against him in defence, but this surge came so surprising and forceful, uncontrolled you might say, seeing how Anakin is still getting a handle on this new power, it throws Obi-Wan off balance and Anakins Lightsaber flies off a few meters away. Anakin pushes the attack with the lightning, but Obi-Wan remains on the defensive, using his own Saber still. Trapped in this stalemate, Anakin believes he can leap to his Saber, knowing that Obi-Wan is not one to let go of his own Saber (he continuesly reprimands Anakin for being to careless in handling his own Saber in 'Attack of the clones' and the 'Clone Wars' series) As he leaps, Obi-Wan sees his only chance to strike is now, befor anakin grows too strong in the dark side of the force and regains his Saber on top... So he desperately does what he always preached not to do... More reacting than acting, he Daringly/carelessly throws his Saber, hitting anakin at the highest point of his trajectory, cutting off all his remaining limbs... He won the battle. He picks up anakins Saber, just to make sure, and then the famous speach ensues befor he leaves. Anakin, no arms, no legs, no weapons, burning to his presumed death.
Anakin is so angry he lost his saber he uses force lightening and reaches the shore while toying with obi using lightning Slashes superficial cuts to obi calls him weak and pathetic The jedi order that fears fear and attachment are over The crippled Republic is over Soon he will have a strong empire built by him even that molting old emporer will soon be gone The emporer is already here and senses something insidious being born We think its vaders final form when suddenly an angry hurt obi uses force lightening surprising anakin stunning him to the ground briefly Evil obi grabs his saber charging , afraid and angry anakin stands to defend but is overpowered by an evil obi that is experiencing all that power for the first time Delivering critical hits obi severs anakin piece by piece hearing a force communication from the emporer you have done well my apprentice Shocked and disgusted obi flees The emporer gets vader in the suit but tortures him constantly dominating him know your place vader you were nothing as a jedi you are nothing compared to a sith lord Yes my master
I'll give it a go. Part 6: The Shore. Obi Wan, now with the high ground and both lightsabers, stood there watching Anakin. His demeanor calm, his form relaxed. He knew Anakin, his brother, in all his virtues and flaws. Anakin summoned his power, steeled his will. Around him the magma began deforming, shifting around him. With only a single hand raised, he pulled the lava up behind him. Obi Wan could only marvel at his strength, saddened that this power had fallen to the Dark Side. Anakin lunged, spears of lava flowing past him towards his former master and friend, intent on closing him off from escape while he went in to break him with the Force. But in an instant, he saw his mistake. It was unlike what Anakin saw from him before. It was swift and decisive. Obi Wan had dashed forward and struck out. The lava spread across the shore around them as Anakin fell to the ground, limbs severed. Even in his final strike, Obi Wan held restraint towards Anakin, unable to kill him. Torn by what he had to do, and with lava flowing back down the shore towards them, Obi Wan retreated, jumping to a higher section free of the molten stone, only able to watch as Anakin met the lava and began burning. Even in such a crippled state, he watched as the lava was repelled, at least in part, as Anakin spat vitriol at Obi Wan. Whatever compassion and love Anakin held for Obi Wan was replaced, and Obi Wan could see it. Unable to hold back his sorrow, Obi Wan tried in vain to plead to Anakin to see sense once more. Ultimately, though, as Anakin began to burn, Obi Wan left. He could not bare to see his brother die, yet knew he couldn't save him. He could only leave and hope it ended here.
…Anakin squares off for one last clash. On the shore Obi-Wan, calm now, speaks. “Can you not see what you’ve become, Anakin? Open your eyes! Ever since you were a child you have been driven to help others, protect others. You sought justice for the weak and powerless. But now? Where was justice when you slew the younglings in the temple, in the creche? Where was their peace? You’ve loved Padme for years but you just strangled her, the mother of your child! Where was her security? This path you’re on leads only to destruction.” Anakin freezes, and Obi-Wan’s tone turns pleading. “Even now it is not to late to turn back. Please, Anakin, do not force me to kill my brother.” For a moment his words seems to penetrate, the glow of yellow in Anakin’s eyes fading. “Do not let Palpatine destroy the good in you.” Anakin shuddered, blinked, and the yellow was back, brighter, more sickly than before. “The words of a traitor are worthless. I should have know the Jedi were plotting to take over.” “Was it the Jedi who just declared themselves Emperor? Think, Ana-” “Enough! Enough lies. Enough hypocrisy! It’s time to end this.” The air begins to crackle and snap around Vader as wind whips faster and faster in a growing cyclone. “Anakin, what are you doing!” Obi-Wan begins slowly backing away. “Afraid, Jedi? You should be. You can’t hold me back anymore,” he sneered. “I can feel you in the Force, whatever you’re attempting, you are exhausted, your control is shaking and you are standing over LAVA. This is insane!” “This is the power of the Dark side.” Anakin begins to rise as the Force wraps ever more tightly around him. Bursts of electricity split the surrounding air. “This is only the beginning of what Palpatine has to offer. Keep your feeble notions of Light and compassion. The Jedi are finished!” Caught by the wind, sprays of molten lava begin riding in the tumbling air. “Anakin, stop! Shut it down! This is too much for you, for anyone!” Obi-Wan is forced to split some of his focus to shield himself as he is pelted with small rocks and debris. “Anakin Skywalker is dead. I am Darth Vader now.” Obi-Wan’s voice is a thunder of absolute command. “Padawan, shut it down!” Anakin looks down at Obi-Wan, and though his eyes are crazed his voice is gentle as he says “Goodbye, Master.” Lifting his remaining hand, lightning begins to gather around it before suddenly lashing back into it’s wielder. Anakin screams. Obi-Wan sprints desperately away, whipping behind a boulder and wedging himself into a crevasse in the rock. The winds rise to a howling shriek as flying magma paints the landscape. It seems like hours, years, as Obi-Wan waits for the Force’s rage to calm. Eventually he stirs, rises, staggers his way back to the river of fire. There on an outcrop of the bank lies Anakin, limbs ablaze where they have fallen too close to the pooled lava. Numb, Obi-Wan uses the Force to move Anakin to a cooler patch of ground and smothers the flames. Charred flesh covers much of Anakin’s body but, in a twist of chance, his face is almost untouched. In the Force his spirit flickers weakly, so feebly. Later, Obi-Wan couldn’t have said how long he sat there on his knees by his once apprentice. He should, he ought, to make certain the threat was ended. He should- The blade lit, rose… and hung for an infinity. The blade vanishes, unsullied. At last the dim but steady glow of another life pushes him to his feet. Padme and her child lived. Duty remained. Looking out over the devastated field of stone and twisted metal he could only hope that a ship had been spared. *** Not the greatest, but workable for a quick outline.
Many people think that prequel duels don't portray characters well. Here's why they are wrong. Phantom Menace, scene with laser doors: Obi-Wan, as a young learner, is nervious, he stands, breathes heavily and stares at his master. Qui-Gon, like true Jedi, is meditating. Maul, as a Sith, is walking like a tiger in a cell, feeding his rage. After Qui-Gon's death Obi-Wan uses dark side and cuts Mauls weapon, but Maul has more experience on this ground, and he overpowers him. Then he becomes overconfident, while Obi-Wan gets calm, uses his brain and pulls a trick with Qui-Gon's lightsaber which Maul didn't see out of arrogance. Excellent character portrayal. Attack of the Clones: Anakin is pissed for Jedi's deaths and Padme's drop, he runs forward and gets wrecked. Obi-Wan tries different styles on his opponent, but Dooku defeats him with minimal movement. Anakin fights agressively and loses lightsaber, than his arm. Dooku is way more skilled, he is trolling and provoking his opponents to open. Yoda is upset and disappointed on his former student, he shows him that Dark Side bonuses are no match for 800 years of experience. He chooses to save his friends rather than capture Dooku and end the war in critical moment. Dooku2: Anakin is way more skilled and disciplined, when Obi-Wan is knocked out, he combines his strenght with anger and defeats Dooku, and then executes him on emotions, which is a huge step to the dark side and set up for "too dangerous to be kept alive" scene. Mustafar duel: Anakin is master in offence, while Obi is master in defence, so they are evenly matched. Anakin opens several times in battle, but Obi-Wan can't bring himself to kill him. Anakin at some moment loses his weapon and starts choking, which is Vader's signature move. In the process of fighting they symbolically destroy the industrial machinery and everything starts to burn.
What a coincidence. I just rewatched Kenshin and Saito's fight just the other night. It's an excellent, brief, intense clash with tons of narrative weight while building on the events of prior arcs. Saito was always my favorite of Kenshin's adversaries.
My ending to the fight would be a showdown style. Similar to the actual movie but without Vader looking so stupid jumping onto Obi-Wan's blade. Anakin is bursting with rage and dark power at this point. The world moves at his command. Obi-Wan is pushed back, on his knees, face down-turned. Anakin's lightsaber is ripped from Kenobi's grip in an instant. Anakin leaps onto shore, catches his saber mid air and closes quickly on Kenobi. But then we see what Anakin can't: Kenobi's eyes are still strong, and down on one knee he has just been waiting for the right moment. Through sheer force of will he breaks through Anakin's dark power and rises, saber in hand to meet Anakin's charge. And so it comes down to a final clash of blades, which Obi-Wan has baited Anakin into. It's over in an instant, and Anakin is incapacitated
It stated out good (awful acting by Hayden and Natalie aside) but was way too long I just became numb to what was happening, the environment got so absurd and was laughably fake (they were feet away from lava and not even sweating.) Would've been much better if it played out like a spaghetti western standoff or samurai duel, long period of tense dramatic build up followed by moments of quick, decisive violence
You have a point. And the old films did take a couple things from Westerns anyway. They could take some more out of cowboy films, and samurai films (which took a lot from each other) to make an iconic, suspenseful, intense standoff and final duel that acts as a decisive gut punch to end off the film while not feeling cheap, lazy or too quick.
"If your writer's scene starts with glad and ends with glad it shouldn't be hanging around your plot." Counterpoint. Fanny and Alexander. Over the first half hour of the film is set in an idealized version of a 19th/early 20th century Christmas to set up how heavily interconnected the family is and to make the toneshift when the second act kicks in hit as hard as possible. The film wouldn't be as strong without this long build up.
I'm a sucker for anything prequel, as someone who grew up with them, but I recognize its many flaws. One big problem I always saw in this fight is that, although Obi-Wan is a formidable warrior, he is weak in the Force, while Anakin is pretty f-ing strong in it and he had given in to the dark side, which basically means bonus power-ups. This is further explored later in comics and animated shows, like the 3D Clone Wars animated series, where is shown how strong and proficient he is in the Force at that point in the timeline. So, my point is: having Anakin focus more on the Force powers would surely make Obi-Wan break a sweat and turn this duel into something better to watch, as Obi-Wan would really struggle against Vader, having to rely on his wits to outsmart him. That's what the "I have the high ground" was meant to be: a point in the fight where Obi-Wan had absolute advantage over Vader - with Vader knowing - and tried to use it to persuade Vader to stop. A trump card, in other words. But the scene we got was something utterly pathetic instead, with Obi-Wan yelling the infamous words that made no sense to the audience. Someone argued with me once about how Obi-Wan avoided disarming Vader bc Vader was so focused in the lightsaber combat that he would seldom use the Force bc of that, but I call that bogus. I mean, it could've been a valid point to show Obi-Wan's strategist side, but that would also mean delaying the problem and risking his life as Anakin could be unpredictable in combat, even for his own master Obi-Wan, and, as Vader, that unpredictability escalated. Not to mention Obi-Wan was an efficient warrior, stalling only when necessary to gain advantage or to avoid a fight entirely (a characteristic he has shown since the original Ben Kenobi). Also, the reason why they started fighting always bothered me as it seemed like they could just have talked it over. It didn't seem like Anakin was really blinded by hate, but that everything was just a "hey, we need these two to fight each other" moment.
Playing Angel’s advocate rq on the fight scene’s playing out: they are changing, they’re changing forms, locations, they’re trying different tactics(they used force push on each other, for example), though in my personal opinion of the scene, it could’ve used more variety in how they tried to strategize in this game of chess.
It seems unlikely that a lightsaber battle could have shifting moments, with weapons which can cut starships in half, but is totally possibly. consider this: The battle begins with force powers, hurling debris at each other, with Anakin having the edge and revelling in his strength (Glad). It continues through the facility but Kenobi uses stealth against Anakin's budding dark powers (Afraid). Moving on they find the remnants of those Anakin just murdered, the guards of the now dead Seperatist leaders, and Anakin uses his powerful Jedi powers to send them into battle, forcing Kenobi to commit murder (Sad). We end with the direct duel of sabers, in which Kenobi taunts Anakin into an unwise mistake (Rage).
Anakin, enraged by his old mentor's seemingly crushing advantage, uses his force abilities to begin grabbing equipment and machinery that's been scattered about the area, and fling it at Obi-wan. (Fear over Obi-Wan's peril) Obi-Wan, sensing the objects incoming, begins to easily swat them away. This is a mirror image of when Vader does the same to Luke, save the demeanors are reversed - Anakin is as panicked as Luke, Obi-Wan as calm as Vader. (Glad over Obi-Wan's overcoming the obstacle). Unfortunately for Obi-Wan, his momentary distraction is enough to allow Anakin the chance to leave his platform; sensing this, Obi-Wan turns to confront him again, but Anakin uses the force to throw ashen sand into Obi-Wan's face, blinding and distracting him further. (Anger over dastardly tactics). Obi-Wan reflexively reaches up to clear his eyes of the burning hot sand, accidentally loosening his grip on one of the lightsabers, which Anakin quickly force pulls out of and towards himself, catching it in mid-air. Sensing victory, he rushes the still partially blind Obi-Wan, managing to connect a non-lethal blow on him before Obi-Wan can react. Obi-Wan force-pushes himself away from his foe out of pure instinct and is sent tumbling down toward the lava, only just stopping himself near the edge. (Fear over Obi-Wan's peril). Anakin, in his arrogance, leaps headlong toward Obi-Wan, gunning for his head. Obi-wan - now nearly surrounded by lava, still partially blind, injured and in pain, and with a homicidal Sith aiming at him - has no choice, and slashes at Anakin aggressively, desperate to deflect the lethal blow. Unfortunately, Annakin leaping in this manner makes dodging nearly impossible, and the light saber connects, slashing his legs apart as seen in the original. (Glad that Obi-Wan defeated Annakin). Obi-Wan, nursing his injury, manages to climb back up onto the high ground, and looks to see Anankin right next to the lava, slowly burning alive. The lines from the movie play as before, save that Obi-Wan wishes to try and save him from the lava and moves down to try and pull him out - he's too weak from the battle and injuries to use the force safely. Unfortunately, a large surge of lava moves up and partially submerges Anakin, setting him on fire and - from Obi-Wan's perspective - seemingly killing him. (Sad at Obi-Wan's torment and Anakin's anguish). At this, we're out of the battle. Obi-Wan would then hear the shuttles in the distance, possibly move toward them, then see the clone troopers and realize he's a fugitive and needs to run.
Changes I would make on my first draft: -Remove the extraneous bit at the beginning of Anakin throwing stuff at Obi-wan: at most, make it a single object to force Kenobi to avert his gaze so Anakin can get off the skiff. More then that wastes time in what should be a dynamic confrontation. Keep the ash in the eyes bit, though. -What kind of blow from a lightsaber would be "non-lethal" and yet still close enough that Obi-Wan is desperate to get away like that? The only things I can come up with would be either "loss of body part", which is forbidden, or "seared organs", which doesn't allow Kenobi to do follow-ups since he'd be in a bacta tank for a month. Ditch the lightsaber wound; let's keep the laser swords as dangerous and lethal as possible in the audience's mind. -Instead, use Anakin's arrogance to my narrative advantage, and have him do the "throwing stuff at Kenobi" from the beginning HERE - after all, "it worked last time, and Kenobi isn't able to see now! I want to toy with him a little before finishing him off!" And now, we have a REAL recreation of Luke vs Vader, with Kenobi vs Anakin, the Jedi and Sith completely echoing their respective roles...which will be a nice little "call-back" for people who watch first time in chronological order. (Anger from the ash swipe continues to be used here, allowing the audience to seep in it a little more and REALLY stew in Anakin's new detestable nature - really cement home that he's become Vader in all but mask to make absolutely sure everyone's on Kenobi's side for what's to come) -Blows from the flying debris are what cause Kenobi to lose his grip on the sword, by the way - exhaustion and weakness are the primary cause now, not stupidity. This keeps Kenobi in as positive a light as possible. Anakin jumps at Kenobi, but misses due to the instinctive force push away, resulting in the afore-mentioned tumble by Kenobi. (Fear is still used, though it's rapidly switched up now to keep the audience off balance: Fear at Anakin's attack, Glad at Kenobi dodging, Fear at Kenobi tumbling toward the lava) -One thing I forgot: How does Kenobi get Anakin's light saber at the end? He has to have it to present to Luke in IV. Answer: instead of collapsing from weakness, Kenobi actually tries to get Anakin in a last desperate attempt to save him - if for no other reason then to bring him to justice for his crimes now. Anakin, fueled by his rage and anger and now pain, uses the last of his force energy to Force Hurl his lightsaber at Kenobi. Unfortunately for Anakin, his reduced connection to the Force from loss of limbs (canon, from Lucas himself specifically on the topic) means he loses control before it can strike Kenobi, who scrambles back to avoid the now tumbling blade. As this happens, magma washes up and sets Anakin on fire, preventing Kenobi from making another attempt. Kenobi then picks up Anakin's lightsaber, thinking Anakin killed by the magma and thinking to have a momento to give to Padame when he rescues her later. (Sorrow at Anakin's sorry state and Kenobi sorrowfully trying to help, Fear over Anakin's surprise attack, Glad over Kenobi dodging, sorrow over Kenobi watching his former friend burn "to death" and collecting the lightsaber).
I think RUclips is F-ing with subscriptions. I have the "notifications for everything" selected for a number of creators. I check daily, and get notifications for a lot of folks. But I get notifications for @FreedomToons four days later and I *never* get any notification for your channel.
And Vader used the force to break a metal tube and throw it onto Obi-wan's arm. The hot metal distracting the Jedi master and as the lava spills out of the broken tube, the lightsaber slips out of the failed mentor's hands. Soon after, the dark lord takes his saber and jumps directly onto his former master, just for the astute master to use the overflowing lava from the broken tube to shower his former padawan... the father is now laying on the ground, moaning and crying as the fire eats him alive, at the same time as his best friend gazes the scene, not yet bringing himself to stare away from the raw cruelty he submitted him to suffer... soon he leaves, unable to keep looking, even though that single frame would be haunting him for the rest of his life... I tried-
From my point of view regarding the battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin, it is not apparent to me that a story is meant to be told between them as they duel; rather, their story as warriors has already been told. Instead, the conflict is at a constant stalemate to show that, rather than either Jedi overpowering the other through each beat of the duel, Obi-Wan and Anakin are constantly at an equal level and so one cannot truly overpower the other. What becomes the downfall of one warrior over the other is not skill with a lightsabre but something far more dangerous: Pride. It was not going to the dark side that was the defeat of Anakin but his own pride; born from fear and nurtured by The Emperor. I would also assert that the beauty of the setting gave not just an adequate but appropriate setting for the great duel of the good Jedi and the destruction of his friend; not lava or dismemberment but betrayal, hatred and the abyss of fear and, that destruction is not always so black and white as death and life but to lose oneself to darkness. This kind of story telling is deeply intrinsic to STAR WARS, because STAR WARS doesn't tell a straight forward story, rather it offers a choice how to understand the story with a linear form of story telling that also tells itself. Essentially, STAR WARS is not black and white, and if you do see it as black, it flips and then becomes white. To view STAR WARS through a single lens is to miss the importance of how STAR WARS tells itself. Another brilliant and eloquent video.
Yeah, it'd be a little of a stretch to call it boring. But the point LD is making is pretty valid. Sure it's visually exciting because of all the lava and the lightsabers, but narratively it's lacking. Take away all the expensive computer graphics and it'd be really boring, since the drama behind it is weak.
What I absolutely love about some Sameri fights is the build up, the opposition of beliefs and loyalties. The best fight scenes build a swell of emotion/consequence. It is all the better when one of the combatants are slain immediately. It shows the mastery of craft. One mistake in positioning/etc... means death and the build up is forever conditioned within yourself... reinforcing the winning/losing personal stakes within the overall narrative. The showdown will always be my favorite!
Hey LitDev, just FYI, I didn't get a notification for this video even though I saw early this morning that it was going to premier and CLICKED THE SET REMINDER BUTTON. I don't think RUclips likes you.
I was going to have Obi-Wan reveal Padme's death, but when he tries to tell Anakin that she died to give him twins, his is so consumed with grief that all that he's work for is now gone, there is a short duel and then Anakin, not knowing he's a Father because he won't let Obi-Wan tell him, throws himself into the lava in an attempt to end it all. However, Obi-Wan manages to save his life, but not by much. Anakin is still badly scared and burned, almost entierly crippled save for a single hand. Obi-wan cannot reach him, physically and thematically, and so he must leave him there before the now Empires forces arrive, having traced the last of the known Jedi.
I don't really write and haven't watched it in a while, but I'll try. Obi-Wan: The Council had their doubts about you- Anakin: The Council? Why bring them up? Of course they never believed in my power! Obi-Wan: -but I believed in you. Anakin: Liar! If you did then you would have helped me get into the Council as a Jedi Master, not simply to "take a seat!" You could have done something! Obi-Wan: Qui-Gon believed in you. Anakin: What does that- that dead man have to do with m-me? Obi-Wan: He believed in you- he took care of you and taught you. He saw your potential and wanted to help. Anakin: No! He took me from my mom and left me with strangers! Obi-Wan: Didn't you choose to become a Jedi? Anakin: He used his Jedi mind-tricks on me! Obi-Wan: No, he didn't! He would never! Don't talk about those who are gone like that! Anakin: Then why did you bring up the Jedi Council? Akakin uses the force to make a lightsaber like blade with the lava. Obi-Wan, who lost some of his cool, got ready to attack. They clash. Both fatigued and annoyed. The lava above Anakin's hand started to drip as the duel continued. Obi-Wan started to move on the defensive as he gained his composure. Anakin's wild swings caused himself to stumble. Obi-Wan: You're swinging like a mad man! Get yourself together! Anakin: Don't lecture me! Obi-Wan: If this continues, then I'll have the (moral) high ground! Anakin: Quiet! Anakin recklessly attacks. Obi-Wan surprised by such a lunge, attempts to defend himself. In great pain from getting his other arm chopped off, Anakin drops the lava by his feet. Anakin: You! How!? Obi-Wan: I didn't mean to hurt you. Anakin stomps towards Obi-Wan, yet does not realize that his feet and legs were starting to burn. He falls to the ground- not being able to feel his legs. Obi-Wan steps forward to help his fallen brother. Yet Anakin yells for him to leave. This continues until Obi-Wan gives in to Anakin's screams. Obi-Wan: You were the chosen one... End Scene If they did the lava thing, I probably would be upset when they don't use it again. Could they use lava? I must admit that I saw someone in the comments using lava in their conclusion.
An excellent analysis, as always. And while I agree with most, if not all, of what you've said; one should not discount the value of Shad's analysis because it balances out what's discussed here. A battle that is designed in a narratively satisfying way can be ruined if it's incompetent on the martial level, just like the Kenobi vs Anakin fight is good on the martial level while failing on the narrative level. Both are important.
Probably a fake out, he is going to talk about the fights in the Kenobi series. Because the one in Revenge of the Sith for me tops any other fights from any other franchise. Edit: It was not a fake out.
I... Have you watched... movies? Like, any of them. There is a whole genre, martial arts films, whose sole conceit is providing fights better than Anakin v Kenobi... and many of them carry better narratives too.
@@baronvonbeandip Yes, I watched them. Rocky, the Jacky Chan movies, all of that stuff used to be on TV a lot when I was a kid. I watched anime fight scenes too, medieval duels, 300, Gladiator, all of that. But for me, the Anakin v Obi-Wan fight always was more interesting due to its unique story premise and the way it shows the dire consequences that Anakin had to suffer as a result of failing, and I personally sympathized with Anakin more than an any other character I ever saw.
@@MalevolentSpirit234 Anakin's plight is too real. People become they're own worst enemy and turn their friends and family against them from their greedy or lustful actions all too often, even when we know what we're doing is wrong.
To keep with the Rhyming of previous scenes, Obi Wan has the high ground, and Anakin/Vader knows it, so Anakin pulls a "Palpatine" and begs for his life, saying he wants nothing with the Dark Side. (And ObiWan actually falls for it) MAD Anakin/Vader takes advantage and sneak attacks. AFRAID But ObiWan is victorious, cutting off Anakin's other arm, and Anakin falls to his thighs in the lava, anguishing in his pain and the torture of the Dark Side. Obiwan and the audience knows that that Anakin is completely lost. SAD Obiwan is using the force so Vader is not completely consumed. GLAD Obiwan spares Vader's life, pulling him out of the lava, his former friend a quadriplegic. But the Jedi Master knows his friend is gone and will probably die this way. SAD
I’ll save you ten minutes reader, the whole point of this video is “No shift of power=bad” wich is wrong for so many reasons that I speak in this comment. 2:58 It is not old information Literature Devil, Anakin just now tells Padmé that he hated living on Tatooine because of him being a slave and him hating the environment. To give context in him saying that he hated sand it’s because Padmé said before that when she was a child she loved going to the beach with her friends. 5:55 The point of Obi Wan and Anakin “Swinging” swords and being perfectly balanced is the fact that now the audience is surprised because the apprentice has reached the master level. 9:44 So you claim that the battle is boring because there is no power shift, but the point of the battle is that the master and the apprentice are perfectly balanced. Here your argument is “No shift of power=boring battle” yet you are wrong. First of all it’s isn’t boring because the visuals are beautiful and second of all they speak a lot during the fight talking about their ideology.
Vader uses the force to collect a wave of lava and leaps at Kenobi, about to fling the lava at him. In desperation, Kenobi throws his lightsaber and cuts off Vader's other hand in an attempt to disorient him and make him lose control of the lava. It succeeds, and Vader falls to the shore, only feet from the flowing river of lava. The wave that he has summoned crashed back into the flow, but caused splashes that consumed his legs and set his cloths on fire. Vader thrashes and screams for three seconds and goes still. Kenobi, distraught and in pain, fails to search the force for life, assuming Vader to be dead, he backs to the top of the slope, turning to leave, but turns back to look one last time at his former friend. "I am so sorry, Anakin. I failed you." Kenobi looks down at old Anakin's saber, and leaves to find Padme. You end with Vader in the same state as the movie left him, and Kenobi didn't walk away and leave a man in agony to die.
A lack of creative freedom. When you have a long chain of people that your creation has to filter through, you lose a lot of potential grandeur. Also, I think western video entertainment has a big problem with really portraying just how grand in scale super powered beings should be. We take these super powered beings and pit them against each other, and then we scale them down to expressing only tiny bits of what they should be capable of. Most Jedi, for example, have semi-precognition, and when fighting other Jedi, they should rely heavily on using the environment to outmaneuver each other, but they mostly just try to lightsaber each other while traversing the environment instead of using it. I feel like I'm just rambling, but in short, I really want more complexity of action and thought from the characters. Having your combatant take a moment to wipe sweat from their eye, and nearly losing the fight from the momentary distraction makes it feel more immersive than just showing nonstop action.
unsub you cannot use earth rules for fight between supermens. Star Wars have its own logic and you need to understand that. Obi wan was on defence and Anakin on the offense
you didn't respect the lore with the change you did. the dark side runs out of steam quicker than the light in a fight. that means that Obiwan slowly getting the upper hand is not how it should go, Anakin needs to be aggressive and have the upper hand until he screws up and loses due to not realizing his limitations and how he no longer has the strength he did at the start of the fight. basically from a lore perspective the fight works, but from a martial perspective and literary perspective it does not. Anakin needs to be driving Obiwan to certain doom, then have Obiwan make a move which cleverly changes things so that it is not certain doom. maybe start at the landing pad, then drive him to the door, but the door isn't automatic, and we start to wonder how he is going to operate the controls while focused on defending, but then Obiwan deflects Anakin's saber to cut something which then hits the controls and opens the door at the last moment. then Anaking drives Obiwan into the side of the room without an exit, but Obiwan keeps the table between them, keeping Anakin at bay, so Anakin uses the force to knock Obiwan against the wall before jumping to attack him. Obiwan then deflects Anakin's saber then falls down and rolls away from Anakin, now with Obiwan on the side with the exit and Anakin on the side without. Anakin drives Obiwan out of the chamber and on the antenna, then cuts the antenna so Obiwan drops into the lava, except Obiwan uses the force to move a droid under him so he doesn't end up in the lava. Anakin jumps after him, landing on the now floating antenna. Anakin pulls the droid towards him, while also pushing Obiwan to knock him off the droid, but Obiwan uses the force to pull a wire from the antenna to him and uses that to pull himself onto the antenna but higher up. Anakin climbs up at Obiwan and manages to drive Obiwan further up the antenna, despite being in a less advantageous position. Obiwan runs out of antenna to climb and having not been able to keep from being driven back seems to be finished, so Obiwan tries to use a force push, but Anakin counters it with his own force push, the two are evenly matched, and fly apart off the antenna. Obiwan guides himself onto shore, while Anakin falls into the lava. Obiwan relaxes and slumps, visibly tired and says something about how foolish Anakin was or how he (Obiwan) was sorry, showing how sad he is. Anakin bursts out of the lava screaming something hateful while lunging at Obiwan when Obiwan doesn't have his saber out or on. Obiwan uses the force to move out of the way, up the slope while drawing his saber and turning it on. with the pause Obiwan says that it is over and that he has the high ground (with the pause that people miss, so that it isn't over just because he has the high ground), but Anakin tries to leap over him and Obiwan then slices off his hand and legs like before. this time he is already burned so he doesn't need to catch fire, but otherwise things proceed as before. this is all to show that Obiwan while weaker than Anakin kept good awareness of his surroundings and didn't get blinded and singularly focused, also that Anakin ran out of steam at the end of the fight and still did a stupid thing that lost him the fight despite nearly being in control the whole time. Anakin is the charging bull, unable to see the cliff, and if he can't finish the fight he will eventually collapse from pushing himself too much, and neither of which he realizes. if Obiwan can wound him before the end then it means that Anakin never did have the upper hand, since that burst is all his energy all at once, so if Obiwan can get a back and forth (like a normal fight) then Obiwan is much more powerful as this isn't a burst, but a sustained use of his energy. Anakin is supposed to be the strongest, but the others are supposed to be smarter, and more skilled with the powers. this also means that the fight scene is also bad from this perspective since they were evenly matched through the whole thing. Obiwan gave ground in a very controlled fashion, and didn't give ground when he didn't want to, this meant that Obiwan was never really in danger during the fight, this meant there was no tension or risk, and it meant that Obiwan was evenly matched in power, but had much more experience since he controlled the fight. it also means that Obiwan didn't seem to have to cut off Anakin's legs, he could have kept pulling back, or just holding him at bay until Anakin ran out of steam (again, the dark side fights in a way that tires them out faster based on lore). this makes Obiwan a dick, and the fight was just Obiwan flexing over Anakin. the fight was bad on many levels.
I was gonna try and fill in the outline that LD gave us, but...I honestly couldn't keep it up. I was stuck in the first scene, the dialogue was dragging, and I couldn't make sense of it. So I just gave up. If _I,_ the one writing, couldn't make sense of it, I figured it'd be better to just give up. What point is there in going through with a failure when I have recognized that it's a failure and have the chance to avoid the embarrassment? Ironically, the willingness to give up and admit that you can't do something is probably what would have spared us a bad Sequel Trilogy.
I would say that, for the finale set up by LD, a good wrap up for the end of the conflict would actually be redoing the original scene, with one alteration that makes all the difference. Kenobi tosses Anakin’s lightsaber back to him, asking him, begging him to come back to the light side before, enveloped in his rage and anger, Anakin goes for the same, doomed to fail leap. By giving Anakin that last choice, It shifts the mood to a dim hope, before stealing that away and back to sadness, as even though our hero had won, he had still failed his true goal. I believe this was the original intent of the scene, however I feel this makes it more poignant, more amplified and clear, and still allowing for the memetic line that made an in-joke amongst those in the know about the high ground. : P
Contrasting two scenes by describing one instant by instant and the other as 'hitting swords' is a bit reductionist. You really didn't even try going into individual actions, so it's hard to take your word on them lacking any shifts in balance.
JUST DESCRIBE TO ME THE FIGHT INSTANT BY INSTANT. He did go through the fight There where no NARRATIVE shifts in the fight Anakin never shifts to be in the advantage and neither does Obi-Wan till the "I have the high ground" moment
@@theultimategman407 in a video about the Anakin vs Obi-Wan fight, he did an instant by instant of the beginning of a different fight from a different series. Never once did he attempt to go into that detail for any moment of the Anakin vs Obi-Wan fight. The Shadiversity video mentioned does do this, at length, and you can see that the advantage does go back and forth a fair bit. I'm not asking for the entire fight. Just that he give it the same courtesy he gave Rurouni Kenshin.
@@theultimategman407 yes. You know what? Absolutely. That's what the video is about. The video is about a scene and how it supposedly lacks something. It shows how a totally different scene has that something, and then completely handwaves the scene that the video is actually about. So, you can stop being an ass. This video was poorly made.
I love the way you break things down and will give alternative tellings of things while trying to retain most of what is being discussed! Also happy to see a reference to Shadiversity! (Education CAN be fun! Just watch Literature Devil, Shadiversity, Kyle Hill, etc.) Literature Angel, that was an impressively smooth interjection!
I think during the fight Anakin should wound Obi-Wan, so in the end, Obi-Wan would have to gather all his strength through meditation. That would (A) make another flip from "glad" to "afraid", (B) make Anakin's overconfidence more believable, (C) after the fight ends, Kenobi has to flee and in a wounded state understandably can't check if Anakin is still alive.
Ok so. The point of the I hate sand line is to show that he still thinks of his home and feels hatred towards it for what it did to him and his mother. It’s not I love you. It’s I have hatred in my heart but you make me feel love
I just rewatched the prequels a couple days ago and I gotta say I never looked away. Loved all of it. I'd still change things, of course, but they're good movies.
My version would go like this: Anakin and Obi wan stare each other down. The lava river is between them. Anakin tries to force choke Obi Wan to death, but suddenly and with his last breath Obi summons the McDonalds Clown who then rips Anakins limbs off. This is possible because Obi Wan has Nord VPN and because it's a movie about space wizards intended for children.
I agree to a point. I wouldn't say it is boring but narratively pointless. It was a spectacle like explosions in a michael bay movie or some gun fights in 80s action flicks. The point is to wow with display not to progress a plot.
@@theultimategman407 yes if you care about that but audiences are amused by simple things like random explosions and pointless fights too. So if you care about purpose then yes it is boring but if you just want a choreographed dance than it is great.
@@froniccruxis1049 The problem is you lose nothing by shifting the advantage between characters. you can keep the choreographed dance and visually stimulating backgrounds while raising the stakes.
@@theultimategman407 true, but I am saying calling it boring is wrong. Especially considering the army of people that love it and consider it the best lightsaber fight out of all the movies. There is obviously something entertaining in it just nothing important to plot
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that some bullshit.
nord is a scam, brother. it hurts your credibility!
I find it interesting that your vpn ads actually follow your advice on narrative. Demonstrating both critical and creative understanding. Well done Lit Dev. Well done indeed.
This might actually be a bad take.
@PreachCoomerObxniousMashocist666⚠️ (☣️) well was mostly referring to the whole video.
I can’t care less about Nord VPN.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the conclusion but I do disagree with the pretense. That the fight between Obiwan and Anakin are just hitting each other with swords. There’s the segment where Anakin is choking Obiwan which elicits fear and then Obiwan breaks out of the hold which elicits excitement. We get a brief kicking intermission to break up the hitting with swords before Anakin goes flat on his back, the battle swinging in Obiwan’s favor. Anakin manages to block the blow from his disadvantaged position and then we get the force push off where we see they are equals. Anakin rebounds much quicker and immediately puts Obiwan on the back foot, swinging the battle back to Anakin. The overarching narrative of the fight is more than just hitting each other with swords as well. Obiwan constantly moving backwards symbolizes his reluctance to fight Anakin and Obiwan being the one to relocate the fight every time shows that he has a broader perspective than Anakin who relentlessly and mindlessly pursues his enemy. This narrative retroactively continues into Episode 4 where Obiwan is willing to sacrifice himself to let Luke escape while Vader is only concerned about striking down his enemy. The visual progression can’t be understated as well. When the fight begins both Anakin and Obiwan are fresh Jedi in their pristine robes and all of their moves are snappy and precise. Throughout the battle Obiwan gets more and more weary and scorched while Anakin devolves more and more into a ferocious beast. A Sith Lord consumed by rage. This fight is most certainly a spectacle but credit is deserved when it’s due.
Was literally about to write something like this, then i saw your post^^. There are also 2 reason which i think limit the options the filmmakers had in terms of "changing who has the upper hand" and "changing the emotion of the audience".
The first is that canonically, Obi-wan and Anakin used drastically different lightsaber fighting styles. With Obi-wans form, you basically go 100% defense, and only ever try to win by getting your opponent to exhaust themself to the point of presenting easy openings. You dont try to defeat your opponent, you are trying to outlast them, basically.
Anakins lightsaber form is based on physical domination, offense and power. It tries to dominate the fight, by not holding anything back. With a combination of styles like that, you wouldnt expect to see constant shifts in who has the upper hand. It will pretty much be an onslaught of attack from anakin, and if he can score a hit before he will get to exhausted, he wins. thats it.
The second - and more important - reason has to do with the audience, not the show itself: The movies being prequels, we know the outcome of the fight before hand.
We cannot be afraid that Obi-wan will get chocked out and killed, or have his head chopped off, or loose a limb. We know he will survive this fight, with no - at least physical - lasting injuries. We also arent rooting for one character specifically here (yes Obi-wan is more of a protagonist then Anakin at this point, but its not nearly as clear an in most anime, where the 100% hero fights the 100% villian). We are to some degree invested in both of these characters, and are merely watching the tragedy unfold as to how they ended up as mortal enemies.
So I'm going to pull a bit of a bait and switch here, I completely agree with the assessment of the fight scene, what I disagree on is the assessment... For the sand scene!
No, I'm not kidding, though I do admit the dialogue is clumsy, there is a point to it beyond Anakin telling us that he loves Padme.
It serves to both establish how different Padme's upbringing was to Anakin's, why does a young child who was enslaved and whose only way out is to fashion a working pod racer from scraps hate sand that is rough and coarse and gets everywhere? I'd honestly ask how you'd expect he wouldn't, the very thing Padme wouldn't even consider important in the story is something that brings back unpleasant memories for Anakin.
Furthermore, since this scene is in the second movie of the trilogy which begins with a massive time-skip, it can feel divorced from the events of the first movie, even more so because Anakin was technically not the focus character there, it is important to drive home how Anakin feels about his old life and his desire to move on and fully immerse himself in this new life of his, only for his new life to be brought to shambles by the oncoming catastrophe that is Shmi's death, Anakin wanted to leave Tatooine (a desert planet) behind, only to be pulled back into it by force.
This doesn't mean that the scene is perfect, much like a lot of the dialogue in the prequels, it's very stilted and the direction leaves much to be desired, but the purpose of the scene is very much solid.
Even if you disagree with Literature Devil on the "boring assessment", keep in mind what's worth taking away from this video: He teaches you how to write better fight scenes.
Oh he's got good writing tips but his analysis of the fight is clearly warped by his dislike. "They start here and clash, they move here and clash, they move there and clash" he's totally ignoring the actual progression happening in the fight, that with each scene location they are getting less and less complicated in their techniques, getting more worn out and less refined. What Lucas was doing there was trying to bring the audience into the fight, make them feel what anikin and obiwan we're feeling. Some people checked out emotionally others didn't. And that i think is the difference between finding this the best and saddest duel in star wars or the most boring.
@@Direwolf1166 The problem is the fight doesn't really have ebb and flow. They seem too evenly matched, without anyone ever gaining an advantage over the other. So it basically comes off as two people stage fighting up until the point where one of them is supposed to die. And even the death scene is done in a really stupid non-sensical fashion. So while visually impressive, it isn't as dramatically impressive.
The Yoda/Palpatine fight did a lot better in that regard where we see one side in triumph only for it to switch to fear and desperation when the other side gets the upper hand.
@@taragnor it wasn't supposed to have an eb and flow. You read what i said about what that fight was supposed to be right?
@@Direwolf1166 reading is hard bro
@@Direwolf1166 Eb and Flow help the audience stay attuned to the fight. If a fight scene wears you down rather than give you an emotional response, you check out faster if it doesn't feel there are greater stakes at every stage, and you can convey wear down even with a dance. Even a moment of furious wild striking and attempts to block those strikes and a moment where he's slashed by one strike in a nonlethal way, can help convey that even wild attacks are getting through Obi Wan's mind and focus, showing he's slowing down, as wild striking from Anakin shows he's desperate to even hit Obi Wan. If you want a dance, you need to know how to dance, or otherwise it's not a proper dance.
I’ll try writing a conclusion.
Anakin was filled with fury. His rage coursed through his blood like lava as he held out his remaining, human, hand. Obi-Wan’s eyes widened with shock as he saw the lava start to rise around Anakin’s piece of floating debris. “You thought you were safe up there?” Anakin said arrogantly as the lava rose with his platform until he was eye level with his former master. “You underestimated just how powerful I truly am!”
Obi-wan deactivated his lightsabers and raised his arms in front of him. “Anakin, please, don’t do this, I don’t want it to end like this.”
Anakin laughed. It was exhilarating to see his old master trembling before him, begging for his life. “We both know it’s too late for that. You made a big mistake following me.” He raised his arm and the lava pillar began to move towards the Jedi while continuing to rise to even greater heights. Suddenly, he felt a burning sensation in his right leg. He looked down and realized at once what had happened.
“Deep down, I knew it was too late when I arrived. I just wanted to hold out hope.” Obi-wan fell to his knees as he watched the fire trail up Anakin’s legs. All he did to defeat his padawan was move his leg slightly with the force. Just enough of a push to get his robes to catch on fire. The inferno would do the rest.
However, Anakin was not content to burn. He raised up his hand and began slowly closing in on Obi-wan’s windpipe. “If I die here, at least I’ll die knowing that the Jedi die too!”
Obi-wan suddenly activated his lightsaber and threw it at his former apprentice. Anakin was too shocked to do anything as he felt the blade sever his arm. He let out a guttural scream, but he was powerless. Suddenly, the lava pillar began to fall as Anakin was no longer able to use the force to stabilize it.
Obi-wan used the force to quickly catch his lightsaber once more and quickly retrieved Anakin with the force. As he lifted the smoldering Sith, he saw the flaming remains of his legs burn off and fall into the lava. Obi-wan saw the fire go out as his old friend lay motionless on the ground. He turned the body over to look into the eyes of the fallen Jedi. “I know you can’t hear me, but I truly wanted to save you.” With that he set down the husk of his former brother as he walked back to the destroyed facility where this awful encounter started.
This is pretty well-written, but how did you misspell Anakin when it's in the title?
@@MarioSMG64 the secret ingredient is autocorrect making me wrong. I fixed it now.
Points. This is better.
I like it. Expresses the characters well, and fits with what LitDevil established. Also, it addresses....
"...from my point of view, you have the lava ground!"
@@jeffbenton6183 I hadn’t even realized I gave Obi-Wan the lava ground. I was just going for spectacle, nice find.
There's no shift in the power dynamic of the battle until the very end because Obi-Wan is constantly on the backfoot, literally and narratively, every source (including himself) says he is Anakin's inferior in almost every way, he never gets the upper hand on Anakin because he can't, he can only survive against him.
In the end it was Anakin's arrogance that defeated him, not Obi-Wan, so it was never really a conventional fight between equals.
Honestly not really. Or at least the battle doesn't convey that. Yeah, Anakin is without a doubt the more aggressive one, but you don't really get the sense that Obi-Wan is having a lot of difficulty blocking his attacks. But that's how you'd expect a battle between a rage-filled sith and a focused jedi to be. They seem more or less evenly matched. The fight doesn't have a back and forth. The term "hitting swords" describes it perfectly.
.."you've become a far better jedi then I (could ever be)"
I struggle to believe that Obi would say that just to make Ani feel better.
I agree with Orangutan
@@taragnor
The choreography always, always, ALWAYS has Obi Wan giving ground. It’s very explicit that Obi Wan is just skilled enough to not die, but not enough to put any pressure on Anakin, whereas Anakin is never tiring.
02:45 If you think about it that sand line sets up how selfish and bad at romance Anakin is. I think it's an important line in the movie. It immediately tells us why Anakin is so focused on Padme, that she was the first beautiful thing he'd seen or focused on in his life after being a slave, and now he's obsessed.
I always thought it represented his trauma over having been a slave, and the fact that his anxious attachment pattern originated from his unfinished business in Tatooine. Which played out in the worst possible way later in the movie
Lucas' failures were twofold: the first was relying too much on spectacle, the second was forgetting that not everyone is in his head. The "I hate sand" line was, I believe, meant to show that Anakin makes everything about himself. That there's something fundamentally wrong with him and even when he's with the person he loves most in the world he has to make the story about him. That makes his ultimate sacrifice in Return of the Jedi all the more meaningful. But while Lucas' dialogue has always been somewhat wooden, he'd been so deep in these characters that he forgot to explain things more clearly to the audience. Because an audience, confronted with stilted dialogue, is more likely to believe that this is just surface-level stuff and not look into it for the deeper context.
The fight scene went on for too long and relied on too much acrobatic spectacle when in the OT lightsaber fights were philosophical conflicts punctuated with violence. The "high ground" bit was just dumb, but the arguments and Obi-Wan screaming lent to the fact that the Jedi had been falling apart long before Anakin ever showed up, and everything was coming undone. It's weird because I'm not defending the scene, and think that overall the prequels failed due to preventable issues, but they have a lot of good hidden within them.
In regards to Lucas showing aspects of his characters through dialogue, Lucas's mistake imo, was that he rarely ever had his other characters react to the things he was trying to put forward for us to notice. I've always said that Padme was actually the wooden character, not Anakin. Anakin was always saying and doing cringy things, as he should have being a monk with no romance experience, but Padme only ever rebuffed or resisted him out of her duty as a senator, not the fact that he was awful at courting her. I just wanted one line of her pointing out how bad at trying to be romantic Anakin was, or something calling out how he always focused on himself. Instead, she was always supporting him and every time he voiced his own doubts about how he felt or what he was doing she'd just say crap like "You're expecting too much of yourself."
I think you'll find this point interesting concerning Anakin's response to Padme: ruclips.net/video/B8MY5dgoT9U/видео.html Anakin Didn't 'Turn' into Darth Vader, He Always was Him: Star Wars Character Analysis
"Anakin makes everything about himself"--Fact Check: True.
I actually think the “I hate sand” lines were a very clumsy attempt by George Lucas to humanise Anakin. He’s originally from a sand planet where nothing good ever really happened for him and his comment makes sense; unfortunately the seed of an idea here wasn’t fleshed out enough to offer the audience anything but memes.
Oh jesus fucking christ don't tell me you think Obi-Wan was talking about literal physical highground.
@@MerlosTheMad Yeah like the time he admitted to causing a genocide and Padme just looked at him.
It’s kanda sad apparently in the rots novel it was more like obi wan on the constant defence only being able to do so by him having mastered the most defensive lightsaber form. Which is also why he was sent to kill grievous due to him being a non force user lightsaber duellist he had to overwhelm his opponents to stop them from tapping into the force which he couldn’t do which obi wan. Which is also why the most dangerous general in the separatist army who had a Jedi kill count only second to Darth vader was swept away like a gimmick side villain. Which he honestly is on a casual watching of the movies. But to conclude my comment with the weird tangent even in the more fleshed out novel there was only ever one real shift in the balance of the fight from obi wan being on the defensive to him obtaining the memed to oblivion high ground.
It is obvious in the movie too.
@@Сайтамен it’s told but it has little to no impact as the movie didn’t show only told. Wich is one of the core rules to stand by for writing.
Personally I disagree that it’s boring, it’s what the entire trilogy was building up towards and while all the laid groundwork along with the execution throughout the previous two films leading into the final battle could have been handled MUCH better; the end results still have enough impact to last.
I agree, and personally i really liked the prequels little bit more the the original and a lot more than the sequels
Hence the criticism. It would turn that fight from "it all comes down to this, it's inevitable, but the overall emotional investment is aggressively mid", changing the latter part to "...and the back and forth of emotional investment in the narrative, along with the choreography of the fight, made it worth the wait".
I actually fast forwarded through much of the fight because I was bored with it.
Please keep in mind that I think the prequels were so bad that after TPM I refused to see them in theaters. So, I wasn't even remotely invested in the movie. I expected episode 3 to be bad but I was surprised that it was only mediocre.
More to the point, Lucas had many years previous told fans that Vader was crippled by a fall into a volcano, and the battle had to end with that. But it had to get us there first, and what I saw was a pair of combatants, evenly matched in skill and power, one perhaps a little reluctant to kill, and the other overwhelmed by anger and hatred. It was Anakin's anger which ultimately defeated him, when he threw away tactics and just leaped at Obi Wan, who had already warned him that it was over. Did that "high ground" thing make any sense? Perhaps not, but the elements were there, if not very aptly handled, and perhaps overplayed for screen time. What I would like to hear from Literature Devil is a critique of the fight with Qui Gon, Anakin, and Darth Maul, which was MUCH better, even though the results were tragic. ='[.]'=
Personally you are wrong.
Anakin, remembering how he had the upper hand while using debris as a weapon lifts as many rocks as he can from the shore and launches them at Obi-Wan.
During this time Obi-wan is telling him how foolish he was to think Anakin could handle the power of the force, no wonder the council wouldn't accept him as Master, no wonder he was so easily corrupted..
We can't truly see what happens as Anakin unleashes all his anger at Obi-Wan, the dust and debris clouds Anakin's vision as you begin to hear rocks settling... Or noises that could be mistaken for rocks cracking and sliding
As the cloud clears you hear Obi-Wan say, "I'm sorry Anakin, I loved you like a brother" a tower of stone that was behind Obi-wan is falling towards Anakin. Having been destabilized by his own actions.
He tries to jump out of the way and he lands seemingly safe, the tower hitting the river next to him. As the stone impacts lava comes flying out of the river and hits Anakin facing us as we see his eyes burn with the color of the sith. Not that far from the color of mustafar and the fire that quickly consumes him
On the other side of the hill, where Obi-Wan had simply slid down to get out of the way we can see tears quietly falling, creating the only clear spots on his soot covered face
Anakin's screams of pain and rage quiet down as he seemingly dies. Obi-wan obviously grieving, but with a steely determination heads toward his ship
I like that idea. It seems to fit well with what both characters would do and has the added bonus of Anakin's rage and arrogance getting him literally as well as figuratively.
@@januszm5424 thank you. That is what I was aiming for. And letting Obi-Wan's cleverness and patience come out, even when faced with such trauma
It isn't.
Ok, so there is a problem with this video in literally the first five minutes.
First point: When you say that Anakin sounds like a neckbeard... Wow, is this the first time you realized this? THAT is the actual intention of the scene and always was, Anakin's love for Padme was shown in previous scenes like in the one when he is talking to Obi-Wan on the balcony, but this sand scene establishes that he is not good at romance and (this is important) does not read other people's emotions and feelings well, hence the initially failed romance with Padme (People seem to forget she rejects him early on in the movie). Anakin's inability to communicate reaches its climax in Revenge of the Sith, where even despite Obi-Wan praising Anakin for his humility before he departs for Utapau, Anakin still believes Obi-Wan doesn't trust him (Despite Obi-Wan vouching for Anakin when he is in private with Mace Windu and Yoda on the gunship).
You also ignore what happened during the fight: Obi-Wan, a Jedi Master, and Anakin, one rank below at Jedi Knight, both attempt to force push each other, only to match in strength. The intention of this is to show that Anakin and Obi-Wan are actually indeed at the same level despite their ranks and varying levels of experience, Anakin still does have a solid chance at beating Obi-Wan.
Anakin monologuing in the middle of the fighr would also ruin the immersion and Anakin's character development: This duel is the representation of both the characters exerting all their strengths to defeat each other. They are not talking for the most part because they are focused on trying to kill each other, and when they are indeed talking its because they can't physically reach each other anymore and they are taking a break (standing on different platforms). By the end of the battle, they are sweaty to the point of shining, greasy, dirt is all over them and their hair is completely messed up. They had no time for dialogue for the most part.
Anakin is actually also a man of few but exceptionally honest words, contrasted with Palpatine who is shown to intentionally make empty promises. Even during the fight with Dooku, the only thing he says to the Count is "My powers have doubled since the last time we've met", which is shortly after proven right after he outlasts Obi-Wan and beats Dooku at his own game, showing how much he progressed from AotC. Also for example, when he is with Palpatine, you can see him sometimes suppressing what he wants to say and awkwardly shifting around in his seat. There is actually an interesting point where in Revenge of the Sith he schools Palpatine about the difference between the Jedi and the Sith, resorting Palpatine to use the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise to actually lure Anakin in to become his apprentice.
Saying that characters need to talk a lot during the fights misses the point of the Star Wars films: Vader monologues to Luke a lot because he IS more powerful than Luke, Dooku and Palpatine do the same thing a lot because they are or perceive themselves to be more powerful than their opponents. And that is forgetting that a frustrated and a completely fallen Anakin at the end of the Mustafar duel himself says "You underestimate my power", doing the exact thing you said Lucas should have and showing how he feels he has gotten stronger with the dark side, only to be proven wrong and to suffer for that mistake by losing the rest of his limbs and almost dying.
In the end, I will say this video itself is emotionally hollow.
Lucas is a bad dialogue writer in general. Ford himself told him as much. I don't believe for a minute the neckbeard-like dialogue was intentional. It was also dated - Anakin's clumsy "with me or against me" line before the fight was a clear reference to then-president George Bush and didn't really make sense in context of the movie.
@@Wintericecrystal Considering Anakin got rejected by Padme shortly after, I am absolutely sure this was intended. Needless to say, before this scene too Anakin looked creepily at Padme, and Padme said to him "Don't look at me like that". If you really think Lucas just wrote that Anakin was creepy "coincidentally", would he really have included Padme telling Anakin to stop ogling at her?
I think the fact that it's a prequel and we already knew the outcome makes it difficult to jump between glad and sad moments.
Personally I always saw it as the type of fight scene you'd see with characters fencing. Where the impact is in the drama or witty dialogue exchanged with strikes. The dynamic comes not from the strikes from each equally matched competitor but the retorts that are suppose to throw the other off guard or lose their focus.
For Anikin giving in to his anger it would have been easy for Obi-Wan to make him lose his composure and fight sloppily, where in he could slip in dismembering blows.
Alright I'll give it a try, after Anakin summons his Dark power he attacks with force lighting showing how far he has had to tap into the Dark side and feeding off his anger.
This in turn was the exact moment Obi-Wan was waiting for, maybe we get a brief sad flashback of Obi-Wan saying he believes Anakin is the chosen one instead of screaming it.
He leaps from the high ground now that Anakin has let his guard down severing his other arm and legs still determined not to kill him.
Anakin now helpless screams in pain and anger as Obi-Wan turns off his weapon to retrieve him, just then the Emperor arrives with several drop ships of troopers that begin opening fire on Obi-Wan.
Taken aback he quickly turns his Lightsaber back on to defend himself but loses his chance to grab Anakin, he is forced up the hillside with one last look at Anakin spitting curses and threats of revenge and flees.
The Emperor arrives with his facade of sympathy and compassion we even witness some heroics on the clone troopers part as they brave the lava to save him.
We see the grin on the Emperor's face as everything has gone just as he predicted and are left with anger that he appears to have gotten away with it.
Just to drive it home I'd add a scene where the Emperor tells the droids repairing Vader to include the weakness to lightning in his suit in case he betrays before walking in full of fake compassion again.
Impressive. Most impressive
Intresting concept, but I don't like the part where the Emperor drives Obi-wan away.
I think it would be better if we saw Obi-wan go down to help Anikin only for Anakin to scream at him. Obi-Wan hesitates. He wavers and we see his outstreched hand towards Anakin. Then he drops it. At that point he decided that there's no saving Anakin anymore. So he takes the lightsaber to kill his friend. He raises it ready to strike but again recalls their past and wavers. Anakin then starts to insult him. Points out the apparent weakness of the Jedi while sliping down further. Then he's too close to the Lava and starts to burn. Obi-Wan only stands there watching in Horror as his friend screames in agony and rage. Eventually it's too much for him and he turns away.
What this would do is that it would show how Obi-Wan gave up on his friend. How he recognized there was nobody left to safe. He knows he must kill him. But he still can't bring himself to do it. This would further illustrate the difference between Jedi and Sith and how hard the jedi path is even fir somebody like Obi-Wan.
It would also leaves us on a sad note, using the ending to ponder over the characters while you're version would leave us on afraind, ready for more action.
@@lubue5795 There were two things I didn't like going in, the first one was ending on a sad note as the start is sad, the entire fight is sad, and the ending is sad what I want people to feel is angry because this was set up from the beginning.
And the second thing I've never felt like fit narratively is Obi-Wan leaving Anakin to die slowly and painfully yet getting a sad note out of it.
He's not escaping with no arms and legs well on fire as far as Obi-Wan is concerned, it's supposed to be this sad moment of weakness and yet all I see is unimaginable cruelty to someone he considered a brother and why he supposedly couldn't do it.
The Emperor pushing him back accomplishes the same aspect of being unable to kill or save him, is believable and works story wise, but doesn't leave me with that same sour note.
Obviously the Emperor was indeed waiting for the fight to end, for Obi-Wan to fail, and to use this to make *his* Vader, but this leaves you with the question of did he intervene because he thought Obi-Wan would finish him? Or that Obi-Wan might save him?
That is a better afterthought to me.
@@VioletDeathRei Seems we had very different feelings when watching the scene then.
To me the fight was never about sadness in the beginning. The whole fight to me seemd like Obi-Wan trying his best to get his friend back. To let him rage his feelings out, so he would eventually calm down and see what was right to do. Only at the end did he realize he couldn't save his friend and that's when the sadness set it.
But before that there was hope for me at least.
@@lubue5795 The fight begins when he chokes the love of his life (nearly) to death, it's not a happy moment nor is it a fearful moment it's just depressing for everyone there and the fight breaks out as the parties involved blame each other.
I suppose you could feel angry and Anakin but again this is all set up by the Emperor twisting his fear of what just happened until he fulfilled it personally to make the perfect weapon against the jedi.
And ultimately again what I feel isn't driven home feels like 90% of the audience always seems to miss what this scene actually shows is three entire movies spanning the entire length of Anakin's life all set up by the Emperor to have exactly this happen.
In the moment people forget that he fed this fear, that he allowed that vision to happen(he was blocking everyone else's), that he befriended Anakin at a young age to be able to swoop in compassionately, that he waited for that moment, that all of this was to make an ultimate weapon that couldn't disobey him.
It is his crowning achievement almost more then gaining control of the republic as it prevents the Jedi from striking back this is the Emperor's moment of glory.
But to show us this we get a sad Obi-Wan and Vader screaming "Nooooo!" It doesn't bring it home for me, you yourself don't even seem to view it as a major plot point.
Yeah, this one is a miss for me too, I find this fight to be absolutely amazing not only visually but on a thematic and narrative level too.
Now the Vader fight from the Kenobi show IS vapid and super boring.
Hopefully the image is a red herring and this will be about the mini series
I find the fight from the kenobi show to be way more interesting since they use the force more
@@nabielarwindra1143 But how they use it destroys canon and logic.
Ok, so looking at it exclusively as a self-contained narrative, agreed. The scene went on too long with no real dynamic shifts. The fight does work better in view of the larger narrative, but yes, it does have its narrative problems, primarily centering on the visual spectacle to reach a conclusion already known to the audience.
Love the comparison to the Kenshin/Saitoh fight. Absolutely spot on. (Saitoh is my favorite character from that series.)
"I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND"
"YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE"
Ah, memories...that are burned forever in your head. *GET THEM OUT*
More like burned forever in your legs, amirite?
Not so much memories as memes...
Even though I'm a strong advocate for Revenge of the Sith, I actually agree with most of the critiques made here. In fact, there is a fight in Revenge of the Sith that takes place simultaneously as the fight on Mustafar. I'm of course talking about Yoda vs. Sheev in the senate chamber. The fight starts with Yoda ambushing the Emperor by knocking out his guards, which aggravates him, then he retaliates with Force Lightning, knocking Yoda back and onto the floor. We then see Yoda pretending to be incapacitated as Sheev gloats over him, who then springs up and pushes Sheev into his chair. Sheev then tries to make an escape, to which Yoda obstructs him and draws his lightsaber. Sheev responds with his own blade, then they start dueling, stepping into and activating the Chancellor's podium. They seem to be at a standstill, so Sheev starts picking up and throwing senate pods using the Force. Yoda is taken off his feet by this, and has to respond by grabbing one of the thrown pods with the Force. He then spins it around to increase its momentum, before throwing it back at Sheev, who is forced to abandon his position. Sheev then attacks Yoda with Force Lightning at close range, knocking Yoda's saber out of his hand. Yoda responds by using the Force to contain the storm, but it's too much for him, and a powerful shockwave is emitted, knocking Sheev back and Yoda off the pod and back onto the main podium. Yoda tries to hold on with his nails, but falls off and lands on the floor. Admitting defeat, Yoda leaves before Sheev's troops arrive. We know Lucas could create a fight like you were describing, where the balance of power shifts, but for some reason he chose not to when it came to Anakin and Obi-Wan. In fact, one of the few complaints I have about Revenge of the Sith is the apparent lack of Anakin's growing power after turning to the Dark Side.
A friend of mine recently said, the Prequels all needed to be longer movies. More space for things to grow naturally, and of course maybe refined dialogue in places. There's a good story there, just not enough creative accountability to help George more properly tell the story in his head.
LOTR had all 3-hour movies and they're masterpieces. The Star Wars prequels could've been the same, or at least ROTS
@@christiannorton9400 There's a four-hour cut of Revenge of the Sith sitting around at Skywalker Ranch somewhere, gathering dust.
He fights 3 Jedi at ones on the temple recording and wins. As Vader, he destroys all machinery around him without moving his arms.
the final Rob Roy duel is so good, and this video explains why: the power balance starts out even, but shifts to the bad guy as he chips away at Liam Neeson. We get more and more fearful as Liam Neeson bleeds out from every hit. But just as he looks like he's about to fall, he does something unexpected and wins. We jump for joy in gladness.
And as soon as the four emotions showed up, I immediately thought of Athena Sykes from Ace Attorney.
Regardless...this was an interesting discussion. It's actually makes sense that even a single scene must have narrative significance by having some change take place.
Hardly I would call that scene boring. Everything can improve allways but fits the narrative. If I changed anything I would make Obi-Wan mention the padawan that anakin kill and how he is ready to slaugther anyone in any number in order to save Padme. That would make the viewer root more for Obi-Wan, just the fact he didn't give him the option to surrender already tells you he need it to fight but didn't want to.
I never thought I'd hear you ever talk about Shadiversity, because I view my interest in medieval history and armorment completely separately from my interest in creative writing, but I think it's super cool that so many different people on this site contribute ideas to each other from places that seem completely unrelated to each other.
I've found most writers throughly enjoy history. It's a past you can extrapolate into a physical future. Hence, understanding how world building means everything.
Shad does creative writing videos all the time, he’s a published author
While We appreciate the advice for writing action, We have to fundamentally disagree with the idea that The Battle of the Heroes needs to be anything like this. The point isn't for you to feel afraid or relieved (part of that is because the ending is a forgone conclusion), the point is that this battle is the culmination of the whole Star Wars saga and that we get to enjoy it with an action fight. It shows Obi-Wan on the defensive because Anakin is his superior, and everything that happens does so because they need to get to point B and they need to make it believable. There is nothing inherently wrong with spectacle without suspense, and it's not forgettable or emotionless just because it doesn't show a shift in power. The whole idea is that We see Anakin's descent to villainy realized and stew in that as we get to enjoy the grandest fight in the greatest cinematic epic ever produced. There is emotion there, and it's great, but why can't We just have a fun action fight? There are plenty of movies with fun action or fights without choreography and emotion directly being tied, and this scene takes nothing away from the movie besides some time.
I think Luo Lang vs. Nanashi from Sword of the Stranger would be a better comparison in terms of how Anakin vs. Obi-Wan should have gone. It is also long and has no dialogue, but every exchange is thrilling in how each opponent creates openings for themselves, only for the other to parry or even reverse the situation, and it does all boil down to one final blow in which the seemingly worthless item Nanashi accepted as payment for his services ends up saving his life.
I think one could also do an interesting alternate comparison on hand-to-hand fights in movies, and how the balance of power can be used for cathartic effect (or more importantly, when done wrong, has a way of sapping the catharsis from the scene). Sometimes hand-to-hand fights want to showcase how powerful the villain is by having the villain land literally dozens of blows on the heroes without receiving a single hit, but as an audience member, you actually just get frustrated, especially if you've come to emotionally hate the villain. Compare that to something like, say, the Police Captain vs Mad-Dog fight half way through the first Raid movie - it's clear throughout pretty much the entire fight that Mad-Dog is going to win, and he absolutely annihilates the Police Captain, however the Mad-Dog character does receive quite a number of blows himself, including a few that looked like they seriously hurt. This works both because it gives you a slight hope that the villain might not win, and it also works because you know that the villain, upon emerging the victor, still suffered some genuine pain, giving some mild emotional satisfaction if nothing else.
Talking about story in fight scene's got me thinking about the greatest sword fight in The Princess Bride. Great stuff.
I actually thought this was going to be a joke video with lit angel like the Reylo video at first, because I thought the fight was pretty good, esspecially compared to other parts of the prequels and sequel trilogy.
Honestly though, I don't disagree with the idea that the fight could have been handled better, with more dynamic changes in power. I'd hesitate to call the fight boring though. The colorful flurishes, frequent repositioning, and hazardous enviernment made it seem fun, even if it was lacking narritivly. Switching the balance back and forth would be a more dynamic way of showing how closely matched they were, I can agree with.
This was a more thought provoking video than I thought it would be, that is for sure.
I thought the point of this duel was to show that they are equal in fight and the only thing that could defeat him was not a lightsaber, but his own arrogance.
No way 😳
I never once thought that fight was boring.
Oh heck nah this dude just said "The reason why Anakin vs Obi-Wan is boring" like it's a fact.
Obiwan stands on the sure holding two light sabres and urges Anakin to return to the light, telling him its not too late, perhaps saying he sees good in him as Luke would later do.
Anakin snarls and Obiwan, telling him he is the master now, and summons all of his dark side potential to shoots force lightning, which Obiwan blocks with the two sabres, however the force of the attack snaps Obiwan's feet out from under him and he starts to slide down the shale slope back towards the Lava, .
Anakin glotes, telling Obiwan that he has nothing to learn from obiwan, that he Anakin is now Darth vader, more powerful than a Jedi.
Obiwan siezes a fixed boulder on the slope, dropping Anakin's light sabre, and asks his former pupil if he's so powerful, what happened to his wife, where is Padmé? He points out that Padmé loved Anakin, as did he, not Darth vader.
enraged, Anakin pulls his sabre back into his hand and leaps towards his master, light sabre ready to cut Obiwan down.
obiwan tells him "you've failed darth",
And as Anakin lands, reveals that the boulder he is apparently clutching desperately is actually a support strut from the fallen installation buried deep in the rocks of the slope.
slicing through it with his light sabre, Obiwan causes an avalanche of rocks to sweep Anakin downwards into the lava. Anakin ends up on his hands and knees, his limbs being burned, just before he is burried in the falling rocks, as Obiwan runs up the slope to safety.
The duel ends with Obiwan looking down at the mess of hot rocks and lava covering his former apprentice with a sad look on his face.
I chose to construct the scene this way firstly, because Anakin's arogance must be his undoing, and because the theems of this duel should play directly into their next meeting in A new hope, with a far carmer vader now taunting Obiwan who clearly believes he's beyond redemption.
Secondly, Anakin's treatment of Padmé should definitely have come up in the fight, since it was supposedly a major part of his character and should've been part of his downfall, particularly because in the film itself, his change from desperate to save his wife to willing to choke his wife realy was a bit of a snap decision, just like murdering the Jedi younglings, although I'll say Matthew Stova does a great job of this in the Revenge of the Sith novelisation.
I also wanted Anakin to go completely into his dark side apotheosis, with the implication that this is him at his most powerful, since powerful though Vader is in the rest of the films, obviously being as badly wounded and reconstructed as he was, would have an effect, hence this one time only use of force lightning, which we'd previously seen palpatine use, and which Vader would never use again.
Obiwan blocking the lightning and nearly falling down the slope is also a call back to Vader's final defeat of Palpatine in return of the Jedi, (no, it had nothing todo with anything in the Disney trilogy, since as far as I'm concerned Disney starwars isn't cannon).
I'm Sorry?!? WHAT?? It's one of the Best Fight Scenes in ALL the Movies.
YES IT IS and its still BAD
One fight scene from Western animation that's worth looking at: Merlin vs Madam Mim. Merlin starts on the backfoot, taking evasive forms and smaller ones or faster ones, always dodging until Mim launches him in the air and he casually flattens her under a ton of blubber. Undeterred, she easily grabs him by the throat, forcing him back on the defensive with... a cartoon stereotype that's fallen out of favour, but an effective one, still.
Mim is on the offensive for most of that fight. It's only when the crab claws come out that he turns things around, going from one attack to the next, some outright aggression only when he has the opportunity for a decisive blow. And when Mim goes for a cheat based on pure raw power (showcasing her character flaws again), Merlin's counter is arguably another cheat, but a more cerebral one, a cheat a clever wizard would do.
Also, the fight only lasts a few minutes, so it doesn't wear out its welcome at all.
presenting "the showdown" duel and not mentioning berserk is a crime lol
"It's just a flesh wound" - Dark Jedi Knight Anakin, at the end of the battle
Yoda and Palpatine's fight has more ebb and flow like this. Palapatine zapping Yoda, Yoda faking his KO, Palpatine zapping Yoda again, Yoda catches it and tries to close the distance to, Palpatine flinging the senate at Yoda. We switch between glad and afraid until Palpatine wins and we're sad for Yoda.
Yeah, Yoda and Palpatine's fight was very well done in that regard. You see a bunch of times when they surprise each other with various tricks and displays of power, and the momentum of the fight shifts. With Anakin/Obiwan, there isn't that sense of either really being in a desperate spot. Even when both of them were balancing on the platforms on the lava, you never really got the feeling either was getting pressured or knocked back. It was just a pure standstill fight that lacked real tension.
This is a pretty accurate take on the fight and kind of the issue I had before. The fight really didn’t have anything going on outside of the music. Obi Wan and Anakin move to different locations and twirl around but nobody makes any impact towards each other. The fight just drags on until it gets to the end and my biggest disappointment is that it doesn’t take any advantage between the 2 characters or the general idea that it’s 2 former friends battling each other. The confrontation is so incredibly bland and the fight never even tries to attempt to execute the fight to exploit some internalization of each character. I never feel through the whole fight if Obi Wan is struggling with the fact that he’s fighting his own former padawan. Did he ever feel hesitant? Was there another way he could fix thing with Anakin? Has he come to full acceptance that he has to kill Anakin? This is why I fail to see why people say this fight has depth. Ive never seen anyone talk about the internal character work about this fight or how the fight stands out by itself, people only talk about the main idea that this fight was built up to by the movies, and only that the choreography and music is great. I used to love this fight as a child but when I grew up and saw more potential of what action can really do and when I saw more that I was personally interested in. This didn’t age well to me. And that’s where I see where people who love the fight come from, but I feel they have some sort of nostalgic bias growing up with it.
Just play techno music over it and it becomes a dance fight.
I think you're spot on. Being generous to Lucas, I think the point may have been to show just how in tune they were with one another up to this point, down to having the exact same fighting style and matching each other perfectly on every parry and counter attack.... but if that was the point it didn't land, and spending 6 minutes on making a single character statement is just overkill and ultimately a waste.
John Williams, on the other hand, was doing some WORK! xD
@@JadeSun7 John Williams music was slapping. But a great example of 2 characters who are in sync with each other but still try to gain the advantage would be the Obito vs Kakashi fight. you can make a long character statement in a fight but your execution has to be on point.
All in all I agree that there should be more impactful shifts in the balance of power, and more emotional range in this fight. However, I think in your criticism you were being a bit too reductionist. A lot more happened in that fight than just "They Hit Swords". And believe it or not, the Anakin vs Kenobi fight does have shifts in the balance of power, but sadly they don't hold any narrative weight because they lack any lasting or serious consequences (something the sequels also suffer from in abundance).
The status quo remains relatively unchanged, aside from them moving out from inside a place of safety to an outdoor hellscape with lava becoming an ever closer threat until the end, with Anakin being consumed by flames. I notice that you didn't change any of that in your rewrite. I wonder why? Maybe because it actually was a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I still really liked this video, and even your rewrite, and I think it prompted some positive things from me too, like the idea that maybe ROTS deserves a deeper look.
This better be a troll
Wait, is it considered boring?
Heck no it isn't, unless you are apart of a small minority of people that think it is for some reason. Don't worry, they're wrong.
Yeah. I just watched it on Fake Fight Commentary and it's uncanny now compared to when it came out. They really like sabre spinning more than attacking too. Guess it's good for ppl that prefer gymnastics or stunt performance to actual fight choreography.
@@thehermitman822 Shadiversity also did a breakdown of it and while it's not perfect, by no means was it bad or boring
@@vileluca Unfortunately, it is arguable. I'm not gonna hate on anyone liking it. I watched the OSWT after adulthood because I was always a TNG fan first. It's great for it's time and I give it credit for the impact it made on the movie industry but it was never impactful on a personal level to me.
@@thehermitman822 Anything is arguable when you have subjective parameters
8:07 This man is about to talk about Kenshin v Saito. Bruuuuh, "battojutsu with sword and sheath". I haven't seen Kenshin in decades and that fight still gets me hype.
my attempt at finishing the duel:
Obi-Wan, uncomfortable on the loose gravel of the riverbank desperately thinking of a way to avoid the inevitable. "You underestimate my power!' Anakin bellowed. He shifted his weight from one foot to the other, then settled. "Don't try it." Obi-Wan begged. His voice full of emotion he was no longer able to control. Anakin leaped, Obi-Wan aligned the blades with his former padawan's heart, but they were knocked away by Anakin's immense push. Obi-Wan dove to the side of a kick that could've shattered bone, then blasted away a small area of the hillside where he was just standing. A small landslide started which Anakin was caught in. He tumbled down the hill, bones and limbs being crushed by the falling debris until he slowed some rocks with the force, stopping them at the bank. He had partial use of one arm, not enough to get away from the immense heat of the lava. He caught on fire immediately. He screamed out in pain, not kicking and flailing only because he was mostly paralyzed. Obi-Wan knelt down beside him, tears streaming down his face. "I failed you Anakin. I only hope the force will still take you in." He had no time to mourn his pupil's loss. The chancellor would soon sense that something had gone awry. Despite the fight he just had, he found renewed strength. He sprinted the whole way back to Padme who lay dying on the ground. He picked her up and carried her into the ship. He then walked to the cockpit, slumped into the pilot's seat, set a course for Polis Massa.
English is my worst subject, so I fully expect this to be trash, lol.
14:02 Instead of Obi-Wan leaping away from Anakin, I would have Anakin lose his cool and tear down the bridge they're standing on. He would use his power to bring it crashing down into the lava river, like throwing the chess board across the room to prevent himself from losing.
On another note, my friend pointed out two issues with this whole concept after I described it to him. First: Obi-Wan wouldn't have severed Anakin's robotic arm to spare him, because he already knew Anakin was too far gone. Second: the battle needed to remain stagnant because the point of it was to show that the two of them are evenly matched.
I still like this, though, as it makes the whole fight more interesting from start to finish.
Speak for yourself bruh
Anakin throws chunks of lava at Obi Wan to get the other hand obi-wan drops anakin's lightsaber and when anakin leaps for it well OB one runs for cover . Obi Wan regains his stance faster than anakin's accounts for and Obi Wan comes in chopping off his remaining limbs before he can grab it
So, the last emotional state we had was fear at the ultimate outcome of the battle as we watch Obiwan meditating on his platform above the lava while Anakin's platform drifts closer. When Obiwan gets to the shore, he leaps off, gaining the high ground and now more sure of his final victory. Anakin, however, again delves into his anger and dark Force powers as he treacherously pulls the entire landscape down into the lava. We now hover between mad and afraid (and then pushed more towards mad as Obiwan starts to get burned by being close to the lava while Anakin gloats). We stay there as his arrogance leads Anakin to take back his lightsaber to leap onto the shore and kill Obiwan once and for all.
Arrogance because he had the upper hand by not contesting Obiwan's greater experience with a blade with his own, but by leaning into his strengths and greater Force abilities. Abandoning that approach, he sets himself up for Obiwan's last attack, the one that cripples Anakin and wins the day for Obiwan. We go from mad to glad (and then to sad as Obiwan's departing speech and Anakin's rage remind us of everything they've lost and given up).
With Obi-Wan having the high ground, Anakin needs to attack from safety, rather than risk getting into his opponents effective striking zone.
Fueled by the powers of the dark side, he attempts something he never tried befor. Something he had both felt on his own flesh, and seen being used by his new master.
Stretching out his remaining hand, he unleashes a torrent of lightning.
Obi-Wan is able to deflect the first surge using Anakins own lightsaber against him in defence, but this surge came so surprising and forceful, uncontrolled you might say, seeing how Anakin is still getting a handle on this new power, it throws Obi-Wan off balance and Anakins Lightsaber flies off a few meters away.
Anakin pushes the attack with the lightning, but Obi-Wan remains on the defensive, using his own Saber still.
Trapped in this stalemate, Anakin believes he can leap to his Saber, knowing that Obi-Wan is not one to let go of his own Saber (he continuesly reprimands Anakin for being to careless in handling his own Saber in 'Attack of the clones' and the 'Clone Wars' series)
As he leaps, Obi-Wan sees his only chance to strike is now, befor anakin grows too strong in the dark side of the force and regains his Saber on top... So he desperately does what he always preached not to do... More reacting than acting, he Daringly/carelessly throws his Saber, hitting anakin at the highest point of his trajectory, cutting off all his remaining limbs... He won the battle. He picks up anakins Saber, just to make sure, and then the famous speach ensues befor he leaves.
Anakin, no arms, no legs, no weapons, burning to his presumed death.
Anakin is so angry he lost his saber he uses force lightening and reaches the shore while toying with obi using lightning
Slashes superficial cuts to obi calls him weak and pathetic
The jedi order that fears fear and attachment are over
The crippled Republic is over
Soon he will have a strong empire built by him even that molting old emporer will soon be gone
The emporer is already here and senses something insidious being born
We think its vaders final form when suddenly an angry hurt obi uses force lightening surprising anakin stunning him to the ground briefly
Evil obi grabs his saber charging , afraid and angry anakin stands to defend but is overpowered by an evil obi that is experiencing all that power for the first time
Delivering critical hits obi severs anakin piece by piece hearing a force communication from the emporer you have done well my apprentice
Shocked and disgusted obi flees
The emporer gets vader in the suit but tortures him constantly dominating him know your place vader you were nothing as a jedi you are nothing compared to a sith lord
Yes my master
I'll give it a go.
Part 6: The Shore.
Obi Wan, now with the high ground and both lightsabers, stood there watching Anakin. His demeanor calm, his form relaxed. He knew Anakin, his brother, in all his virtues and flaws. Anakin summoned his power, steeled his will. Around him the magma began deforming, shifting around him. With only a single hand raised, he pulled the lava up behind him. Obi Wan could only marvel at his strength, saddened that this power had fallen to the Dark Side.
Anakin lunged, spears of lava flowing past him towards his former master and friend, intent on closing him off from escape while he went in to break him with the Force. But in an instant, he saw his mistake.
It was unlike what Anakin saw from him before. It was swift and decisive. Obi Wan had dashed forward and struck out. The lava spread across the shore around them as Anakin fell to the ground, limbs severed. Even in his final strike, Obi Wan held restraint towards Anakin, unable to kill him.
Torn by what he had to do, and with lava flowing back down the shore towards them, Obi Wan retreated, jumping to a higher section free of the molten stone, only able to watch as Anakin met the lava and began burning. Even in such a crippled state, he watched as the lava was repelled, at least in part, as Anakin spat vitriol at Obi Wan. Whatever compassion and love Anakin held for Obi Wan was replaced, and Obi Wan could see it. Unable to hold back his sorrow, Obi Wan tried in vain to plead to Anakin to see sense once more.
Ultimately, though, as Anakin began to burn, Obi Wan left. He could not bare to see his brother die, yet knew he couldn't save him. He could only leave and hope it ended here.
Maybe its the one from kenobi?
…Anakin squares off for one last clash. On the shore Obi-Wan, calm now, speaks.
“Can you not see what you’ve become, Anakin? Open your eyes! Ever since you were a child you have been driven to help others, protect others. You sought justice for the weak and powerless. But now? Where was justice when you slew the younglings in the temple, in the creche? Where was their peace? You’ve loved Padme for years but you just strangled her, the mother of your child! Where was her security? This path you’re on leads only to destruction.”
Anakin freezes, and Obi-Wan’s tone turns pleading.
“Even now it is not to late to turn back. Please, Anakin, do not force me to kill my brother.” For a moment his words seems to penetrate, the glow of yellow in Anakin’s eyes fading. “Do not let Palpatine destroy the good in you.”
Anakin shuddered, blinked, and the yellow was back, brighter, more sickly than before. “The words of a traitor are worthless. I should have know the Jedi were plotting to take over.”
“Was it the Jedi who just declared themselves Emperor? Think, Ana-”
“Enough! Enough lies. Enough hypocrisy! It’s time to end this.” The air begins to crackle and snap around Vader as wind whips faster and faster in a growing cyclone.
“Anakin, what are you doing!” Obi-Wan begins slowly backing away.
“Afraid, Jedi? You should be. You can’t hold me back anymore,” he sneered.
“I can feel you in the Force, whatever you’re attempting, you are exhausted, your control is shaking and you are standing over LAVA. This is insane!”
“This is the power of the Dark side.” Anakin begins to rise as the Force wraps ever more tightly around him. Bursts of electricity split the surrounding air. “This is only the beginning of what Palpatine has to offer. Keep your feeble notions of Light and compassion. The Jedi are finished!”
Caught by the wind, sprays of molten lava begin riding in the tumbling air.
“Anakin, stop! Shut it down! This is too much for you, for anyone!” Obi-Wan is forced to split some of his focus to shield himself as he is pelted with small rocks and debris.
“Anakin Skywalker is dead. I am Darth Vader now.”
Obi-Wan’s voice is a thunder of absolute command. “Padawan, shut it down!”
Anakin looks down at Obi-Wan, and though his eyes are crazed his voice is gentle as he says “Goodbye, Master.”
Lifting his remaining hand, lightning begins to gather around it before suddenly lashing back into it’s wielder. Anakin screams. Obi-Wan sprints desperately away, whipping behind a boulder and wedging himself into a crevasse in the rock. The winds rise to a howling shriek as flying magma paints the landscape. It seems like hours, years, as Obi-Wan waits for the Force’s rage to calm.
Eventually he stirs, rises, staggers his way back to the river of fire. There on an outcrop of the bank lies Anakin, limbs ablaze where they have fallen too close to the pooled lava. Numb, Obi-Wan uses the Force to move Anakin to a cooler patch of ground and smothers the flames.
Charred flesh covers much of Anakin’s body but, in a twist of chance, his face is almost untouched. In the Force his spirit flickers weakly, so feebly.
Later, Obi-Wan couldn’t have said how long he sat there on his knees by his once apprentice.
He should, he ought, to make certain the threat was ended. He should-
The blade lit, rose… and hung for an infinity.
The blade vanishes, unsullied.
At last the dim but steady glow of another life pushes him to his feet. Padme and her child lived. Duty remained. Looking out over the devastated field of stone and twisted metal he could only hope that a ship had been spared.
***
Not the greatest, but workable for a quick outline.
Guess he skipped the part where they both briefly lost their sabres and fought hand to hand.
Many people think that prequel duels don't portray characters well. Here's why they are wrong.
Phantom Menace, scene with laser doors: Obi-Wan, as a young learner, is nervious, he stands, breathes heavily and stares at his master. Qui-Gon, like true Jedi, is meditating. Maul, as a Sith, is walking like a tiger in a cell, feeding his rage.
After Qui-Gon's death Obi-Wan uses dark side and cuts Mauls weapon, but Maul has more experience on this ground, and he overpowers him. Then he becomes overconfident, while Obi-Wan gets calm, uses his brain and pulls a trick with Qui-Gon's lightsaber which Maul didn't see out of arrogance. Excellent character portrayal.
Attack of the Clones: Anakin is pissed for Jedi's deaths and Padme's drop, he runs forward and gets wrecked. Obi-Wan tries different styles on his opponent, but Dooku defeats him with minimal movement. Anakin fights agressively and loses lightsaber, than his arm.
Dooku is way more skilled, he is trolling and provoking his opponents to open.
Yoda is upset and disappointed on his former student, he shows him that Dark Side bonuses are no match for 800 years of experience. He chooses to save his friends rather than capture Dooku and end the war in critical moment.
Dooku2: Anakin is way more skilled and disciplined, when Obi-Wan is knocked out, he combines his strenght with anger and defeats Dooku, and then executes him on emotions, which is a huge step to the dark side and set up for "too dangerous to be kept alive" scene.
Mustafar duel:
Anakin is master in offence, while Obi is master in defence, so they are evenly matched. Anakin opens several times in battle, but Obi-Wan can't bring himself to kill him. Anakin at some moment loses his weapon and starts choking, which is Vader's signature move. In the process of fighting they symbolically destroy the industrial machinery and everything starts to burn.
What a coincidence. I just rewatched Kenshin and Saito's fight just the other night.
It's an excellent, brief, intense clash with tons of narrative weight while building on the events of prior arcs. Saito was always my favorite of Kenshin's adversaries.
My ending to the fight would be a showdown style. Similar to the actual movie but without Vader looking so stupid jumping onto Obi-Wan's blade.
Anakin is bursting with rage and dark power at this point. The world moves at his command. Obi-Wan is pushed back, on his knees, face down-turned. Anakin's lightsaber is ripped from Kenobi's grip in an instant. Anakin leaps onto shore, catches his saber mid air and closes quickly on Kenobi. But then we see what Anakin can't: Kenobi's eyes are still strong, and down on one knee he has just been waiting for the right moment. Through sheer force of will he breaks through Anakin's dark power and rises, saber in hand to meet Anakin's charge. And so it comes down to a final clash of blades, which Obi-Wan has baited Anakin into. It's over in an instant, and Anakin is incapacitated
It stated out good (awful acting by Hayden and Natalie aside) but was way too long I just became numb to what was happening, the environment got so absurd and was laughably fake (they were feet away from lava and not even sweating.) Would've been much better if it played out like a spaghetti western standoff or samurai duel, long period of tense dramatic build up followed by moments of quick, decisive violence
You're going to like this video, then lol
You have a point.
And the old films did take a couple things from Westerns anyway. They could take some more out of cowboy films, and samurai films (which took a lot from each other) to make an iconic, suspenseful, intense standoff and final duel that acts as a decisive gut punch to end off the film while not feeling cheap, lazy or too quick.
How was their acting bad?
what about the epic battle between Walter White and Jeese Pinkman , would you analyze that in the future?
"If your writer's scene starts with glad and ends with glad it shouldn't be hanging around your plot."
Counterpoint. Fanny and Alexander. Over the first half hour of the film is set in an idealized version of a 19th/early 20th century Christmas to set up how heavily interconnected the family is and to make the toneshift when the second act kicks in hit as hard as possible. The film wouldn't be as strong without this long build up.
I'm a sucker for anything prequel, as someone who grew up with them, but I recognize its many flaws. One big problem I always saw in this fight is that, although Obi-Wan is a formidable warrior, he is weak in the Force, while Anakin is pretty f-ing strong in it and he had given in to the dark side, which basically means bonus power-ups. This is further explored later in comics and animated shows, like the 3D Clone Wars animated series, where is shown how strong and proficient he is in the Force at that point in the timeline. So, my point is: having Anakin focus more on the Force powers would surely make Obi-Wan break a sweat and turn this duel into something better to watch, as Obi-Wan would really struggle against Vader, having to rely on his wits to outsmart him. That's what the "I have the high ground" was meant to be: a point in the fight where Obi-Wan had absolute advantage over Vader - with Vader knowing - and tried to use it to persuade Vader to stop. A trump card, in other words. But the scene we got was something utterly pathetic instead, with Obi-Wan yelling the infamous words that made no sense to the audience.
Someone argued with me once about how Obi-Wan avoided disarming Vader bc Vader was so focused in the lightsaber combat that he would seldom use the Force bc of that, but I call that bogus. I mean, it could've been a valid point to show Obi-Wan's strategist side, but that would also mean delaying the problem and risking his life as Anakin could be unpredictable in combat, even for his own master Obi-Wan, and, as Vader, that unpredictability escalated. Not to mention Obi-Wan was an efficient warrior, stalling only when necessary to gain advantage or to avoid a fight entirely (a characteristic he has shown since the original Ben Kenobi).
Also, the reason why they started fighting always bothered me as it seemed like they could just have talked it over. It didn't seem like Anakin was really blinded by hate, but that everything was just a "hey, we need these two to fight each other" moment.
Playing Angel’s advocate rq on the fight scene’s playing out: they are changing, they’re changing forms, locations, they’re trying different tactics(they used force push on each other, for example), though in my personal opinion of the scene, it could’ve used more variety in how they tried to strategize in this game of chess.
It seems unlikely that a lightsaber battle could have shifting moments, with weapons which can cut starships in half, but is totally possibly. consider this:
The battle begins with force powers, hurling debris at each other, with Anakin having the edge and revelling in his strength (Glad). It continues through the facility but Kenobi uses stealth against Anakin's budding dark powers (Afraid). Moving on they find the remnants of those Anakin just murdered, the guards of the now dead Seperatist leaders, and Anakin uses his powerful Jedi powers to send them into battle, forcing Kenobi to commit murder (Sad). We end with the direct duel of sabers, in which Kenobi taunts Anakin into an unwise mistake (Rage).
Anakin, enraged by his old mentor's seemingly crushing advantage, uses his force abilities to begin grabbing equipment and machinery that's been scattered about the area, and fling it at Obi-wan. (Fear over Obi-Wan's peril)
Obi-Wan, sensing the objects incoming, begins to easily swat them away. This is a mirror image of when Vader does the same to Luke, save the demeanors are reversed - Anakin is as panicked as Luke, Obi-Wan as calm as Vader. (Glad over Obi-Wan's overcoming the obstacle).
Unfortunately for Obi-Wan, his momentary distraction is enough to allow Anakin the chance to leave his platform; sensing this, Obi-Wan turns to confront him again, but Anakin uses the force to throw ashen sand into Obi-Wan's face, blinding and distracting him further. (Anger over dastardly tactics).
Obi-Wan reflexively reaches up to clear his eyes of the burning hot sand, accidentally loosening his grip on one of the lightsabers, which Anakin quickly force pulls out of and towards himself, catching it in mid-air. Sensing victory, he rushes the still partially blind Obi-Wan, managing to connect a non-lethal blow on him before Obi-Wan can react. Obi-Wan force-pushes himself away from his foe out of pure instinct and is sent tumbling down toward the lava, only just stopping himself near the edge. (Fear over Obi-Wan's peril).
Anakin, in his arrogance, leaps headlong toward Obi-Wan, gunning for his head. Obi-wan - now nearly surrounded by lava, still partially blind, injured and in pain, and with a homicidal Sith aiming at him - has no choice, and slashes at Anakin aggressively, desperate to deflect the lethal blow. Unfortunately, Annakin leaping in this manner makes dodging nearly impossible, and the light saber connects, slashing his legs apart as seen in the original. (Glad that Obi-Wan defeated Annakin).
Obi-Wan, nursing his injury, manages to climb back up onto the high ground, and looks to see Anankin right next to the lava, slowly burning alive. The lines from the movie play as before, save that Obi-Wan wishes to try and save him from the lava and moves down to try and pull him out - he's too weak from the battle and injuries to use the force safely. Unfortunately, a large surge of lava moves up and partially submerges Anakin, setting him on fire and - from Obi-Wan's perspective - seemingly killing him. (Sad at Obi-Wan's torment and Anakin's anguish).
At this, we're out of the battle. Obi-Wan would then hear the shuttles in the distance, possibly move toward them, then see the clone troopers and realize he's a fugitive and needs to run.
Changes I would make on my first draft:
-Remove the extraneous bit at the beginning of Anakin throwing stuff at Obi-wan: at most, make it a single object to force Kenobi to avert his gaze so Anakin can get off the skiff. More then that wastes time in what should be a dynamic confrontation. Keep the ash in the eyes bit, though.
-What kind of blow from a lightsaber would be "non-lethal" and yet still close enough that Obi-Wan is desperate to get away like that? The only things I can come up with would be either "loss of body part", which is forbidden, or "seared organs", which doesn't allow Kenobi to do follow-ups since he'd be in a bacta tank for a month. Ditch the lightsaber wound; let's keep the laser swords as dangerous and lethal as possible in the audience's mind.
-Instead, use Anakin's arrogance to my narrative advantage, and have him do the "throwing stuff at Kenobi" from the beginning HERE - after all, "it worked last time, and Kenobi isn't able to see now! I want to toy with him a little before finishing him off!" And now, we have a REAL recreation of Luke vs Vader, with Kenobi vs Anakin, the Jedi and Sith completely echoing their respective roles...which will be a nice little "call-back" for people who watch first time in chronological order. (Anger from the ash swipe continues to be used here, allowing the audience to seep in it a little more and REALLY stew in Anakin's new detestable nature - really cement home that he's become Vader in all but mask to make absolutely sure everyone's on Kenobi's side for what's to come)
-Blows from the flying debris are what cause Kenobi to lose his grip on the sword, by the way - exhaustion and weakness are the primary cause now, not stupidity. This keeps Kenobi in as positive a light as possible. Anakin jumps at Kenobi, but misses due to the instinctive force push away, resulting in the afore-mentioned tumble by Kenobi. (Fear is still used, though it's rapidly switched up now to keep the audience off balance: Fear at Anakin's attack, Glad at Kenobi dodging, Fear at Kenobi tumbling toward the lava)
-One thing I forgot: How does Kenobi get Anakin's light saber at the end? He has to have it to present to Luke in IV. Answer: instead of collapsing from weakness, Kenobi actually tries to get Anakin in a last desperate attempt to save him - if for no other reason then to bring him to justice for his crimes now. Anakin, fueled by his rage and anger and now pain, uses the last of his force energy to Force Hurl his lightsaber at Kenobi. Unfortunately for Anakin, his reduced connection to the Force from loss of limbs (canon, from Lucas himself specifically on the topic) means he loses control before it can strike Kenobi, who scrambles back to avoid the now tumbling blade. As this happens, magma washes up and sets Anakin on fire, preventing Kenobi from making another attempt. Kenobi then picks up Anakin's lightsaber, thinking Anakin killed by the magma and thinking to have a momento to give to Padame when he rescues her later. (Sorrow at Anakin's sorry state and Kenobi sorrowfully trying to help, Fear over Anakin's surprise attack, Glad over Kenobi dodging, sorrow over Kenobi watching his former friend burn "to death" and collecting the lightsaber).
I think RUclips is F-ing with subscriptions. I have the "notifications for everything" selected for a number of creators. I check daily, and get notifications for a lot of folks. But I get notifications for @FreedomToons four days later and I *never* get any notification for your channel.
Yeah, RUclips doesn't like me right now for some reason.
I would have words with thee. Impassioned words.
And Vader used the force to break a metal tube and throw it onto Obi-wan's arm. The hot metal distracting the Jedi master and as the lava spills out of the broken tube, the lightsaber slips out of the failed mentor's hands. Soon after, the dark lord takes his saber and jumps directly onto his former master, just for the astute master to use the overflowing lava from the broken tube to shower his former padawan... the father is now laying on the ground, moaning and crying as the fire eats him alive, at the same time as his best friend gazes the scene, not yet bringing himself to stare away from the raw cruelty he submitted him to suffer... soon he leaves, unable to keep looking, even though that single frame would be haunting him for the rest of his life...
I tried-
From my point of view regarding the battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin, it is not apparent to me that a story is meant to be told between them as they duel; rather, their story as warriors has already been told. Instead, the conflict is at a constant stalemate to show that, rather than either Jedi overpowering the other through each beat of the duel, Obi-Wan and Anakin are constantly at an equal level and so one cannot truly overpower the other. What becomes the downfall of one warrior over the other is not skill with a lightsabre but something far more dangerous: Pride. It was not going to the dark side that was the defeat of Anakin but his own pride; born from fear and nurtured by The Emperor. I would also assert that the beauty of the setting gave not just an adequate but appropriate setting for the great duel of the good Jedi and the destruction of his friend; not lava or dismemberment but betrayal, hatred and the abyss of fear and, that destruction is not always so black and white as death and life but to lose oneself to darkness. This kind of story telling is deeply intrinsic to STAR WARS, because STAR WARS doesn't tell a straight forward story, rather it offers a choice how to understand the story with a linear form of story telling that also tells itself. Essentially, STAR WARS is not black and white, and if you do see it as black, it flips and then becomes white. To view STAR WARS through a single lens is to miss the importance of how STAR WARS tells itself.
Another brilliant and eloquent video.
I don't know a single person who found the duel between Anakin and obi wan Boring ...
Yeah, it'd be a little of a stretch to call it boring. But the point LD is making is pretty valid. Sure it's visually exciting because of all the lava and the lightsabers, but narratively it's lacking. Take away all the expensive computer graphics and it'd be really boring, since the drama behind it is weak.
What I absolutely love about some Sameri fights is the build up, the opposition of beliefs and loyalties. The best fight scenes build a swell of emotion/consequence. It is all the better when one of the combatants are slain immediately. It shows the mastery of craft. One mistake in positioning/etc... means death and the build up is forever conditioned within yourself... reinforcing the winning/losing personal stakes within the overall narrative. The showdown will always be my favorite!
Hey LitDev, just FYI, I didn't get a notification for this video even though I saw early this morning that it was going to premier and CLICKED THE SET REMINDER BUTTON. I don't think RUclips likes you.
I was going to have Obi-Wan reveal Padme's death, but when he tries to tell Anakin that she died to give him twins, his is so consumed with grief that all that he's work for is now gone, there is a short duel and then Anakin, not knowing he's a Father because he won't let Obi-Wan tell him, throws himself into the lava in an attempt to end it all. However, Obi-Wan manages to save his life, but not by much.
Anakin is still badly scared and burned, almost entierly crippled save for a single hand. Obi-wan cannot reach him, physically and thematically, and so he must leave him there before the now Empires forces arrive, having traced the last of the known Jedi.
I don't really write and haven't watched it in a while, but I'll try.
Obi-Wan: The Council had their doubts about you-
Anakin: The Council? Why bring them up? Of course they never believed in my power!
Obi-Wan: -but I believed in you.
Anakin: Liar! If you did then you would have helped me get into the Council as a Jedi Master, not simply to "take a seat!" You could have done something!
Obi-Wan: Qui-Gon believed in you.
Anakin: What does that- that dead man have to do with m-me?
Obi-Wan: He believed in you- he took care of you and taught you. He saw your potential and wanted to help.
Anakin: No! He took me from my mom and left me with strangers!
Obi-Wan: Didn't you choose to become a Jedi?
Anakin: He used his Jedi mind-tricks on me!
Obi-Wan: No, he didn't! He would never! Don't talk about those who are gone like that!
Anakin: Then why did you bring up the Jedi Council?
Akakin uses the force to make a lightsaber like blade with the lava. Obi-Wan, who lost some of his cool, got ready to attack. They clash. Both fatigued and annoyed. The lava above Anakin's hand started to drip as the duel continued. Obi-Wan started to move on the defensive as he gained his composure. Anakin's wild swings caused himself to stumble.
Obi-Wan: You're swinging like a mad man! Get yourself together!
Anakin: Don't lecture me!
Obi-Wan: If this continues, then I'll have the (moral) high ground!
Anakin: Quiet!
Anakin recklessly attacks. Obi-Wan surprised by such a lunge, attempts to defend himself. In great pain from getting his other arm chopped off, Anakin drops the lava by his feet.
Anakin: You! How!?
Obi-Wan: I didn't mean to hurt you.
Anakin stomps towards Obi-Wan, yet does not realize that his feet and legs were starting to burn. He falls to the ground- not being able to feel his legs. Obi-Wan steps forward to help his fallen brother. Yet Anakin yells for him to leave. This continues until Obi-Wan gives in to Anakin's screams.
Obi-Wan: You were the chosen one...
End Scene
If they did the lava thing, I probably would be upset when they don't use it again. Could they use lava? I must admit that I saw someone in the comments using lava in their conclusion.
An excellent analysis, as always. And while I agree with most, if not all, of what you've said; one should not discount the value of Shad's analysis because it balances out what's discussed here. A battle that is designed in a narratively satisfying way can be ruined if it's incompetent on the martial level, just like the Kenobi vs Anakin fight is good on the martial level while failing on the narrative level. Both are important.
Probably a fake out, he is going to talk about the fights in the Kenobi series. Because the one in Revenge of the Sith for me tops any other fights from any other franchise.
Edit: It was not a fake out.
I...
Have you watched... movies? Like, any of them. There is a whole genre, martial arts films, whose sole conceit is providing fights better than Anakin v Kenobi... and many of them carry better narratives too.
@@baronvonbeandip Yes, I watched them. Rocky, the Jacky Chan movies, all of that stuff used to be on TV a lot when I was a kid. I watched anime fight scenes too, medieval duels, 300, Gladiator, all of that. But for me, the Anakin v Obi-Wan fight always was more interesting due to its unique story premise and the way it shows the dire consequences that Anakin had to suffer as a result of failing, and I personally sympathized with Anakin more than an any other character I ever saw.
@@MalevolentSpirit234 Anakin's plight is too real. People become they're own worst enemy and turn their friends and family against them from their greedy or lustful actions all too often, even when we know what we're doing is wrong.
why are prequels haters always so condescending to anyone who dares commit the crime of not thinking they are the worst things since WWII
Should have been Obi Wan's increasingly grave determination vs Anakin's increasingly angry recklessness.
An excellent breakdown of two iconic cinematic duels. Your videos should be required watching for any budding screenplay author.
If that's boring, then wait till you see obi-wan's show
From what I've heard, I have no intention of seeing it.
To keep with the Rhyming of previous scenes, Obi Wan has the high ground, and Anakin/Vader knows it, so Anakin pulls a "Palpatine" and begs for his life, saying he wants nothing with the Dark Side. (And ObiWan actually falls for it) MAD
Anakin/Vader takes advantage and sneak attacks. AFRAID
But ObiWan is victorious, cutting off Anakin's other arm, and Anakin falls to his thighs in the lava, anguishing in his pain and the torture of the Dark Side. Obiwan and the audience knows that that Anakin is completely lost. SAD
Obiwan is using the force so Vader is not completely consumed. GLAD
Obiwan spares Vader's life, pulling him out of the lava, his former friend a quadriplegic. But the Jedi Master knows his friend is gone and will probably die this way. SAD
Really like your videos, but I'm gonna have to give this one a hard pass for now. Maybe I'll watch it in the future but I don't like prequel hate.
Main message from the video is... acceptable. From the certain point of view.)
As a diehard Prequel fan, I agree with you. The fight is flashy but overly protracted, some narrative weight could've been put in there.
I’ll save you ten minutes reader, the whole point of this video is “No shift of power=bad” wich is wrong for so many reasons that I speak in this comment.
2:58 It is not old information Literature Devil, Anakin just now tells Padmé that he hated living on Tatooine because of him being a slave and him hating the environment. To give context in him saying that he hated sand it’s because Padmé said before that when she was a child she loved going to the beach with her friends.
5:55 The point of Obi Wan and Anakin “Swinging” swords and being perfectly balanced is the fact that now the audience is surprised because the apprentice has reached the master level.
9:44 So you claim that the battle is boring because there is no power shift, but the point of the battle is that the master and the apprentice are perfectly balanced. Here your argument is “No shift of power=boring battle” yet you are wrong. First of all it’s isn’t boring because the visuals are beautiful and second of all they speak a lot during the fight talking about their ideology.
Vader uses the force to collect a wave of lava and leaps at Kenobi, about to fling the lava at him.
In desperation, Kenobi throws his lightsaber and cuts off Vader's other hand in an attempt to disorient him and make him lose control of the lava.
It succeeds, and Vader falls to the shore, only feet from the flowing river of lava. The wave that he has summoned crashed back into the flow, but caused splashes that consumed his legs and set his cloths on fire.
Vader thrashes and screams for three seconds and goes still.
Kenobi, distraught and in pain, fails to search the force for life, assuming Vader to be dead, he backs to the top of the slope, turning to leave, but turns back to look one last time at his former friend.
"I am so sorry, Anakin. I failed you."
Kenobi looks down at old Anakin's saber, and leaves to find Padme.
You end with Vader in the same state as the movie left him, and Kenobi didn't walk away and leave a man in agony to die.
A lack of creative freedom. When you have a long chain of people that your creation has to filter through, you lose a lot of potential grandeur.
Also, I think western video entertainment has a big problem with really portraying just how grand in scale super powered beings should be. We take these super powered beings and pit them against each other, and then we scale them down to expressing only tiny bits of what they should be capable of.
Most Jedi, for example, have semi-precognition, and when fighting other Jedi, they should rely heavily on using the environment to outmaneuver each other, but they mostly just try to lightsaber each other while traversing the environment instead of using it.
I feel like I'm just rambling, but in short, I really want more complexity of action and thought from the characters.
Having your combatant take a moment to wipe sweat from their eye, and nearly losing the fight from the momentary distraction makes it feel more immersive than just showing nonstop action.
unsub you cannot use earth rules for fight between supermens. Star Wars have its own logic and you need to understand that. Obi wan was on defence and Anakin on the offense
AND IT WAS A STALEMATE THE ENTIRE TIME
This is potentially the worst take I’ve seen on the Obi Wan & Anakin fight. Damn. This guy really doesn’t understand The fight lol
That was fantastic. Simple visuals with sensible advice. I really wanted to know how your version ended, and I’m hyped to write it myself.
you didn't respect the lore with the change you did. the dark side runs out of steam quicker than the light in a fight. that means that Obiwan slowly getting the upper hand is not how it should go, Anakin needs to be aggressive and have the upper hand until he screws up and loses due to not realizing his limitations and how he no longer has the strength he did at the start of the fight. basically from a lore perspective the fight works, but from a martial perspective and literary perspective it does not. Anakin needs to be driving Obiwan to certain doom, then have Obiwan make a move which cleverly changes things so that it is not certain doom. maybe start at the landing pad, then drive him to the door, but the door isn't automatic, and we start to wonder how he is going to operate the controls while focused on defending, but then Obiwan deflects Anakin's saber to cut something which then hits the controls and opens the door at the last moment. then Anaking drives Obiwan into the side of the room without an exit, but Obiwan keeps the table between them, keeping Anakin at bay, so Anakin uses the force to knock Obiwan against the wall before jumping to attack him. Obiwan then deflects Anakin's saber then falls down and rolls away from Anakin, now with Obiwan on the side with the exit and Anakin on the side without. Anakin drives Obiwan out of the chamber and on the antenna, then cuts the antenna so Obiwan drops into the lava, except Obiwan uses the force to move a droid under him so he doesn't end up in the lava. Anakin jumps after him, landing on the now floating antenna. Anakin pulls the droid towards him, while also pushing Obiwan to knock him off the droid, but Obiwan uses the force to pull a wire from the antenna to him and uses that to pull himself onto the antenna but higher up. Anakin climbs up at Obiwan and manages to drive Obiwan further up the antenna, despite being in a less advantageous position. Obiwan runs out of antenna to climb and having not been able to keep from being driven back seems to be finished, so Obiwan tries to use a force push, but Anakin counters it with his own force push, the two are evenly matched, and fly apart off the antenna. Obiwan guides himself onto shore, while Anakin falls into the lava. Obiwan relaxes and slumps, visibly tired and says something about how foolish Anakin was or how he (Obiwan) was sorry, showing how sad he is. Anakin bursts out of the lava screaming something hateful while lunging at Obiwan when Obiwan doesn't have his saber out or on. Obiwan uses the force to move out of the way, up the slope while drawing his saber and turning it on. with the pause Obiwan says that it is over and that he has the high ground (with the pause that people miss, so that it isn't over just because he has the high ground), but Anakin tries to leap over him and Obiwan then slices off his hand and legs like before. this time he is already burned so he doesn't need to catch fire, but otherwise things proceed as before.
this is all to show that Obiwan while weaker than Anakin kept good awareness of his surroundings and didn't get blinded and singularly focused, also that Anakin ran out of steam at the end of the fight and still did a stupid thing that lost him the fight despite nearly being in control the whole time. Anakin is the charging bull, unable to see the cliff, and if he can't finish the fight he will eventually collapse from pushing himself too much, and neither of which he realizes. if Obiwan can wound him before the end then it means that Anakin never did have the upper hand, since that burst is all his energy all at once, so if Obiwan can get a back and forth (like a normal fight) then Obiwan is much more powerful as this isn't a burst, but a sustained use of his energy. Anakin is supposed to be the strongest, but the others are supposed to be smarter, and more skilled with the powers. this also means that the fight scene is also bad from this perspective since they were evenly matched through the whole thing. Obiwan gave ground in a very controlled fashion, and didn't give ground when he didn't want to, this meant that Obiwan was never really in danger during the fight, this meant there was no tension or risk, and it meant that Obiwan was evenly matched in power, but had much more experience since he controlled the fight. it also means that Obiwan didn't seem to have to cut off Anakin's legs, he could have kept pulling back, or just holding him at bay until Anakin ran out of steam (again, the dark side fights in a way that tires them out faster based on lore). this makes Obiwan a dick, and the fight was just Obiwan flexing over Anakin. the fight was bad on many levels.
I was gonna try and fill in the outline that LD gave us, but...I honestly couldn't keep it up. I was stuck in the first scene, the dialogue was dragging, and I couldn't make sense of it. So I just gave up. If _I,_ the one writing, couldn't make sense of it, I figured it'd be better to just give up. What point is there in going through with a failure when I have recognized that it's a failure and have the chance to avoid the embarrassment?
Ironically, the willingness to give up and admit that you can't do something is probably what would have spared us a bad Sequel Trilogy.
I would say that, for the finale set up by LD, a good wrap up for the end of the conflict would actually be redoing the original scene, with one alteration that makes all the difference.
Kenobi tosses Anakin’s lightsaber back to him, asking him, begging him to come back to the light side before, enveloped in his rage and anger, Anakin goes for the same, doomed to fail leap.
By giving Anakin that last choice, It shifts the mood to a dim hope, before stealing that away and back to sadness, as even though our hero had won, he had still failed his true goal.
I believe this was the original intent of the scene, however I feel this makes it more poignant, more amplified and clear, and still allowing for the memetic line that made an in-joke amongst those in the know about the high ground. : P
Another excellent video Mr. Devil. I always find your content insightful. Thanks for all the effort you put into these video.
Inevitable 🤡 circus waiting room:
Contrasting two scenes by describing one instant by instant and the other as 'hitting swords' is a bit reductionist. You really didn't even try going into individual actions, so it's hard to take your word on them lacking any shifts in balance.
JUST DESCRIBE TO ME THE FIGHT INSTANT BY INSTANT. He did go through the fight There where no NARRATIVE shifts in the fight Anakin never shifts to be in the advantage and neither does Obi-Wan till the "I have the high ground" moment
@@theultimategman407 in a video about the Anakin vs Obi-Wan fight, he did an instant by instant of the beginning of a different fight from a different series. Never once did he attempt to go into that detail for any moment of the Anakin vs Obi-Wan fight. The Shadiversity video mentioned does do this, at length, and you can see that the advantage does go back and forth a fair bit. I'm not asking for the entire fight. Just that he give it the same courtesy he gave Rurouni Kenshin.
@@madcinder257 JUST DESCRIBE TO ME THE NARRATIVE SHIFTS IN THE FIGHT
@@theultimategman407 yes. You know what? Absolutely. That's what the video is about. The video is about a scene and how it supposedly lacks something. It shows how a totally different scene has that something, and then completely handwaves the scene that the video is actually about.
So, you can stop being an ass. This video was poorly made.
I love the way you break things down and will give alternative tellings of things while trying to retain most of what is being discussed!
Also happy to see a reference to Shadiversity! (Education CAN be fun! Just watch Literature Devil, Shadiversity, Kyle Hill, etc.)
Literature Angel, that was an impressively smooth interjection!
I think during the fight Anakin should wound Obi-Wan, so in the end, Obi-Wan would have to gather all his strength through meditation. That would (A) make another flip from "glad" to "afraid", (B) make Anakin's overconfidence more believable, (C) after the fight ends, Kenobi has to flee and in a wounded state understandably can't check if Anakin is still alive.
Ok so. The point of the I hate sand line is to show that he still thinks of his home and feels hatred towards it for what it did to him and his mother. It’s not I love you. It’s I have hatred in my heart but you make me feel love
I just rewatched the prequels a couple days ago and I gotta say I never looked away. Loved all of it. I'd still change things, of course, but they're good movies.
My favorite thing about the prequels is the "Darth Jar Jar" theory. It just makes so much sense.
My version would go like this:
Anakin and Obi wan stare each other down. The lava river is between them. Anakin tries to force choke Obi Wan to death, but suddenly and with his last breath Obi summons the McDonalds Clown who then rips Anakins limbs off. This is possible because Obi Wan has Nord VPN and because it's a movie about space wizards intended for children.
Not the most subtle choice, but I appreciate the creative solution for product placement.
Ronald... is that you?
I agree to a point. I wouldn't say it is boring but narratively pointless. It was a spectacle like explosions in a michael bay movie or some gun fights in 80s action flicks. The point is to wow with display not to progress a plot.
the point is that you can WOW your audience by shifting the advantage between opponents in order to raise the stakes.
@@theultimategman407 yes if you care about that but audiences are amused by simple things like random explosions and pointless fights too. So if you care about purpose then yes it is boring but if you just want a choreographed dance than it is great.
@@froniccruxis1049 The problem is you lose nothing by shifting the advantage between characters. you can keep the choreographed dance and visually stimulating backgrounds while raising the stakes.
@@theultimategman407 true, but I am saying calling it boring is wrong. Especially considering the army of people that love it and consider it the best lightsaber fight out of all the movies. There is obviously something entertaining in it just nothing important to plot
Wow, this guy is not even able to quote the sand-line correctly (it goes: "not like HERE. HERE everything is...").
Part 6:
Rick Astley out of nowhere and now entire audience is goes from afraid to mad at being rick rolled.
Did I do it right?