If the movie is "wrong", you did not watch it wrong. The makers made it wrong. You as the audience have no influence over a movie. You are unable to "watch" movies wrong. You can only watch them anyways. As always, a great video. Rian Johnson DID kill Star Wars good. The Last Jedi is the gift that keeps on giving.
I hate it when defenders of TLJ tell those who hate TLJ "you had too much expectations for the movie". DUH of course we expect the best for a SW movie!! At the very least one where it respects the rules and lore of its own universe!! TLJ respected none of that.
@@treasurecave431 Was that from left-wingers who defend the film or from "enlightened centrists" who dishonestly capitulate to the left who support such shoehorned politics and bad writing? At this point, the recent movies, along with Marvel's recent movies, are just pure entertainment for consumption by normies that don't care on how bad the writing and culture-less those are.
Continuity is what creates a franchise. Rules in a fictional universe is what makes it all worth it to continue even watching. In fact you can actually make a extremely mediocre films but as long the universe is interesting enough it can always be salvaged as long as you dont destroy the universe.
Personally, I see the sequels as Abrams crippling the franchise and Johnson coming in to put it down and then Abrams freaks out and tries desperately to resuscitate it
Louis XIV (aka 1685Violin) This is completely wrong. PLENTY of “Left Wing” ppl hated this movie. Also, Marvel is the best thing smoking. Entertaining and follows the comics for the most part. Are they perfect? Nope. Are they good? Yep.
Expecting chocolate and getting caramel, is a subversion of expectations. Expecting chocolate and getting poop is a betrayal of expectations. To subvert expectations properly, you need to understand what your audience wants and likes.
Yes, exactly. To deconstruct something, you have to know how it works, and how the pieces connect. Because there’s a difference between carefully taking something apart to examine it for potential flaws or issues with the working parts, and smashing something on the ground, stomping on the pieces, and saying “I MADE IT BETTER!!”
@@Adorni Sure but deconstruction is fine if one is willing to reconstruct it better or at least appreciate what you've deconstructed as it is. but the media, academia & a hugely powerful portion of the tech companies we rely on for our info & communication are infiltrated bt people who'd rather just deconstruct everything reconstructing what can back up their bid for utopian (grab for power) & leaving what's left (often what brings people together & is a danger to them) scattered in pieced that any attempt to investigate let alone reconstruct just labels you an enemy. Very little is unintentional (excuse the tin foil hat but you keep watching & see)
The reason the argument "Its fiction so why do rules matter" is so shit because if they didn't matter then I can easily ask these questions. Rey needs to destroy Starkiller base. Why doesn't she just teleport it to the sun? "She can't do that." Why can't she, its fiction. Rey wants to see her parents again, why doesn't she just summon them to her house or teleport to them? "She doesn't have the ability to teleport objects." Again, its fiction so she can do whatever she wants so why doesn't she just do what she wants? This is why rules are important for a series, because the character can't just do what they want so there is tension, stakes and drama. Rey needs to destroy Starkiller base, she can't just will it out of existence so she actually needs to work hard in order to infiltrate it and make it self destruct. That sounds way more interesting than her teleporting it to the sun in an instant. Rey wants to see her parents, she can't just bring them to her or go to them because she lacks the power and resources so her only hope is to wait for them to come back. Interesting drama that makes you feel for the character. Without rules, there is literally no reason why every fictional character doesn't get everything they have always wanted and if they did do that, then the story wouldn't be interesting at all. What situation catches your interest the most, a person who was born rich or someone who worked their hands to the bones to get rich? What life story would you prefer? I imagine almost everyone would prefer the latter because struggles and striving and working past obstacles is something that interests people and the reason people have to struggle and strive and work is because we can't do everything and there are rules in place that keep us from doing that. If it entertains us in real life to have rules and limits and struggles then why wouldn't it entertain us in fiction? This argument is purely a lazy attempt to dodge valid criticism for the new Trilogy. Out of the countless issues it has, one thing I really despise is the cheapening of the Force to just being magic that can do anything. Use to just be sensing people, telekensis, electrokensis. It essentially seemed like fancy psychic powers but now its to a point where people are surviving space ship explosions and Superman flying to safety, to creating psychic links from planets away as well as being able to teleport matter instantly through this link to even reviving the dead. Not only are these additions to the Force game breaking as How it Should Have Ended showcases in their video of Rise of Skywalker, it also devalues the past characters because they never tried any of this before. Why do Jedi's use space crafts? Just use the Force to fly like Leia. Why did Anakin's mom die, he could bring her back to life with the Force and prevent Padame from dying with the Force as well, he literally had no reason to turn into Darth Vader since there are Force Abilities that can bring back the dead and heal the injured so this laziness and lack of thought hurts previous plots too. Darth Vader was one of the strongest Force users and apparently he lacked the ability to heal his lungs so he could exist outside the suit and Luke never learned any healing abilities in his movies but Rey with just a few years of training can heal fatal wounds and Kylo can bring back the dead. Luke and Vader must be chumps....or maybe the writers suck at their jobs and couldn't use their imaginations to make a more intelligent way to create the situations they want so the Force is just a plot device that does whatever the writer wants instead of being a powerful but limited cosmic thing that existed in the Starwars universe. Good stories need rules, some of the best stories I can think of have pretty dead set rules like Death Note and Full Metal Alchemist. Rules create drama and stakes and let us know what a character can or can not do and with rules, when you have a character that can reasonably break the rules its a shocking but awesome twist. Stop acting like fiction can just do anything, you know its not true, you would complain about another series having bullshit and are only defending the Sequels because you either like that its pandering to your politics, like that its doing your ship, are ignorant and aren't aware of what people are actually mad about or a corporate shill who just wants Papa Disney to notice them for defending them.
How true your comment is. I was arguing with one of TLJ defenders who after a few exchanges just said "its just a movie, they can do whatever they wanted with it". So why doesnt indiana jones just come swooping out of nowhere? Or why doesnt thanos snap himself into the SW universe??
That it's too much text for *"Without rules there is no tension, and without tension there is not a single emotion in watching the movie/series/playing-the-game/etc. besides 'that was fun, haha'. "*
I agree. In fact, what characters _can not do_ is way more important and interesting for a story. Limitations create conflict, and conflict creates drama, yada yada. I like how every single point defending TLJ can be countered with little thought put to it.
@@juanrodriguez9971 I have a habit of typing a bit too much I'll admit. I think of a good comment, reply or argument and then more words flood into my head when I feel like I could explain it better or that it won't make sense without the rest of a sentence. I did feel like I was dragging on.
@@DonVigaDeFierro That is why characters like Zuko are just amazing, he can't return to his home, he can't capture the avatar, and he can't find his future, and is when the limitations are overpassed when the character becomes a much more better character.
"Heroism is not about being perfect or always winning but breathing hope into the hopeless." This is why Mumen Rider vs Deep Sea King fight from One Punch Man is one of the best things ever put to film. Dude knew he was going to lose - knew he was going to die - but also knew that winning the fight wasn't the point. All he could hope for was to delay until hopefully someone who COULD win would show up, but at the same time he gave hope to the hopeless. And that is one of the defining characteristics of a hero. They jump in and do what needs to be done, damn the consequences.
@@Judasdfg bruh... one punch man beats out most of he western greats when it comes to heroism. it's honestly not a fair comparison unless you're comparing it to something like spiderman.
Mumen Rider is the MVP. The random dude in a bike, with no superpowers, willing to die fighting the cruel and amoral cosmos even if he has no chance of winning... because that's what heroes do. SJWs think that heroes are power fantasies like Captain Karen or Rey Rey Binks, and that being heroic is being always in the right and always unbeatable... That's why they fail.
"You didn't complain when Luke Skywalker did it!" You mean when Luke lost his family? Got his ass kicked by Tuslen Raiders? Lost his mentor? You mean when Luke got his ass kicked by a wampa, and nearly froze to death? When he straight up LOST to Vader, and had his hand cut off, consequently losing his lightsaber? When Luke was being mercilessly tortured by Palpatine? Failed to save his father after bringing him back to the light? You're right. We didn't complain. Now when did ANYTHING LIKE THAT happen to Rey?
The Original Trilogy := The hero's journey of Luke Skywalker The Prequel Trilogy := The story hero's journey and eventual fall of Anakin Skywalker along with the fall of The Republic The Disney Sequel Trilogy := A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. (as Shakespeare would say...)
In the other timeline, Luke Skywalker succeeded in rebuilding the Jedi Order in time for a metaphorical storm to hit that had been brewing (noticed by few because of other more imminent crises) since shortly after the events of _Phantom Menace._ A new generation of heroes under Luke's tutelage came into their own, and together with the older generation they helped the New Republic and Imperial Remnant together to prevail in the darkest hour, with redemption for the culture of the extragalactic invaders.
Any major plot twist should be foreshadowed in a way that after the plot twist, the author can show evidence in the story that it was coming. Subverting expectations means hiding the evidence or obscuring it with decoys not omitting it. Then the plot twist evolves into a duel between the author and the audience. The author wins the duel, if the audience has the urge to collectively facepalm itself for not seeing the signs. The author will loose the duel (and the surprise element of the story), if the audience finds out about the hidden evidence before the plot twist occurs. Authors prioritizing the protection of the surprise element are obviously tempted to scale back on the evidence to the point of leaving none at all.
Let's put it this way: if a plot twist is a battle between the author and the audience, then hiding the clues is rigging the match in the author's favor and the audience feels cheated. But if the clues are too obvious, it feels like the author let you win, and it's unsatisfying too.
Another good example is assasination classroom. One of the biggest twists is shown insanely early compared to when it drops on us. Or tower of god, filled with absolute stunners, but enough info is peppered throughout that it never feels like a twist, even when it's a bombshell on the level of his powers, or his parents.
The real Luke Skywalker would've had a heart-to-heart with any angsty student of his - especially if that student was his own nephew. He would've given Ben a hug, and told him that "dark thoughts are normal, even for me, but they shouldn't define you". He'd have told Han and Leia, and they could've helped him together. Luke Skywalker would not have contemplated murdering a kid in his sleep, no matter what. That's not who he is.
You're ignoring a very important factor: People change. And for Luke, there were thirty years to do that. The reason his appearance is so jarring is that we are not giving any insight into the why. We're seeing the heroic, idealistic Luke when we last leave him. And when we return we are told that everything we believed to know is wrong. We see a cynic fallen Jedi and are not even allowed to wonder how that could be, because we are only supposed to look at the shiny new "improved(TM)" toys and turning to familiarity first makes us sexist, racist, homophobic bigots.
@@Runenschuppe Even after 30 years, i'm sceptical that Luke would've changed so much that he'd be willing to murder his own nephew in cold blood just for having "dark thoughts". You are right, though... it's not _impossible_ that Luke changed enough to do this over the years, because of his lived experiences; to me, it's just highly _improbable,_ given the sort of person that Luke is (i.e. a caring, optimistic person - and a Jedi). We're just given no reason whatsoever for this character change, so it feels extremely jarring. It's a betrayal specifically because we didn't see it coming.
@@Grymbaldknight It's *extremely* improbable considering that this is the same Luke who spared Darth Vader in order to turn away from his own dark future while also saving this same murderer who killed one of his mentors just because he sensed a glimmer of hope for him. Luke went through all of that in the middle of a war and that's what defined his character. It's not impossible, but I find it ectremely hard to believe that Luke would change SO much in that time. Turning into a hermit and leaving everyone alone. Going so far as to contemplate talking the life of a misguided young man who is much like himself back in the day. It doesn't add up.
"Forget the past. Slander it if you have to." Aaaand there you have the objective: "The first battleground is to rewrite history... Take away the heritage of a people and they are easily persuaded." - Karl Marx
@@xlrouge Not as difficult as you'd think, considering most people use Google as a gateway to the internet, and we all know how ridiculous RUclips has been about DMCA take downs and demonetization, not to mention the censorship Google practices with it's search engine; if you've ever gone to Bing, because Google wouldn't show you what you wanted ;) then you know that Google censors it's results.
I see your Karl Marx, and I raise you one Niccolo Machiavelli: the wise Prince, when conquering a people, allows them to keep their own customs and traditions; the wise Prince is seen as a Liberator, rather than a Conqueror.
@@TheNthMouse You mix both and its clear that one would have to destroy the most essential components of the heritage while keeping the same appeareance in order to dupe most fools.
Luke was not a GarrySue. He was ruled by fear throughout the original trilogy, his fatal flaw, painting EVERY decision he made. Yoda reads him like a book and spells it out for us and him clearly. But Ray is FEARLESS and why shouldn't she be? She was stronger than all her opponents from the start. No internal or external struggle. MarySue 100%.
No, Luke was ruled by impatience, not fear. This is stated explicitly in his first encounter with Yoda. He tended to charge recklessly into situations without planning, and then he had to fear for his own and others lives as a result. It was Anakin who was driven by fear-the fear of powerlessness. This was explicitly stated in TPM. It eventually led him down the dark side path and its promise of quick power, only to trap him into being the Emperor's pawn.
@@davidh.4944 Impatience stems from the fear of staying in one place too long. Luke feared he would end up a simple farmer like his uncle Ben and craved excitement and adventure. He couldn't he sit down for one meal with Yoda before freaking out.
@@Jester2415 Either way. Fear or impatience, we see him struggling with those aspects in Episode 4 and 5 which causes him great harm both psychologically and physically. Return of the Jedi sees him overcoming those problems. He faces his father with love, patience, and understanding. He comes to grip with who he is, and what his father was when he sees Vader's mechanical hand. There is actual growth here. Actual conflict. Him choosing to not kill Vader causes him intense pain at the hands of the Emperor. Where was Rey's struggle?
Bokrug the Water Serpent You’d need more energy to make the clones than to make some sort of space soy to feed the troops directly. But yeah, fuck Disney.
Sadly you can make all the rational assessments of these movies and their "story telling" until you're blue in the face, but these ideologues can't understand anything past superficial representation. They don't care about a well rounded, meaningful character arc just so long as, in their mind, someone feels important about their decisions.
Absolutely, but I don't make these videos in hopes of convincing the NPCs. I know that's not going to happen lol. I make these to explore exactly why the NPCs are wrong.
@@LiteratureDevil Kinda like why I bother with the pointlessly idiotic arguments such people make. Though I will note, that for the most part I try to either inform or reach an understanding, if not with the people whom I'm arguing with, the people who just happen to be passing by. Cause I've seen some serious levels of stupid these people tend to show, have you seen a video called "The Last Jedi is Amazing and you are all insane" That guy literally makes no actual points, he just constantly talks about how good the movie is and how stupid and wrong the people who dislike it are. Which I think is one of the most inane and nonsensical videos I've seen on the matter. Sure there's nothing wrong with liking the movie, but you need to use logic when trying to argue against others your point. Either way, thanks for this, you're a sound voice of reason that I always can find some solace in (and it does relive my headache quite a bit from this who issue).
Honestly, you can say the exact same thing about people who dislike TLJ, RoS, the prequel trillogy, or any other story. And for the record, the Last Jedi was a fuck up.
@Grapthar's Hebrew Hammer Didn't bother to pick up the name of idiot who made the video. Merely saw the EFAP video on it, and left a reply to the video in question basically telling the guy that he is a complete imbecile. I was pretty much on the same boat as everyone on the EFAP, wondering just how stupid and nonsensical someone can be. I only recently found that video, as well as EFAP itself, enjoy their talks. I've long been subscribed to Shadiversity, which is how I heard of them, though I didn't actually start watching them until I watched Mauler's unbridled rage videos on the new Star Wars trilogy.
@Grapthar's Hebrew Hammer Shad's good, he's a massive nerd (like most of us), and he's also quite well read on things, mostly medieval stuff, but he also pays a lot of attention to sci-fi and even anime to a smaller extent. Also he's now a published author, as well as a sort of adviser and consultant for Brandon Sanderson when it comes to things medieval and pop culture.
Amen to every single point here. A movie written for children can be FAR better than a movie written for adults if the adult movie has terrible plot points and/or character arcs. The idea that "Luke Skywalker, savior of the universe" can become "Luke Skywalker, blue-milk-drinking emo hermit" because "had a bad dream one time, so I tried to kill my nephew, LOL" is so exponentially bad that it killed a multi-billion-dollar franchise within 5 years.
@Sench just because it's harder to write the story, doesn't mean it would be a "good" story. In the terms of adult perception. Most adults aren't going to go binge Paw Patrol because it lacks any interesting story developments or nuance to keep them interested. My niece loves it, but she's like 5. I'm 30 and I can't stand it.
The worst part is that TLJ had some semi-good elements to it, my favorite is the system of characters' wants, needs and how they affect each other. The problem usually comes when people are trying to be cooks (instead of chefs), and use things like that god-awful ABCBA structure, even when it doesn't fit. The hero's journey is also insanely vague and is only usable as a guideline. There were many good and possible ways to subvert SW. For instance: **1. The First Order is fragmented** I mean, collateral damage on a planetary scale should be grounds for some divide. Wouldn't it be cool if we learned that some people joined The First Order because The Empire did manage to bring "peace" and push back organized crime in most parts of the galaxy during its rule, and that it wasn't evil from top to bottom, with lots of their soldiers being regular people, who knew little of Papa Palpatine and friends' misdeeds. Those people might get disappointed with a shady guy in a bathrobe, an emotionally unstable teenager, a caricature ginger nazi and chrome Briene leading them. And along with that, why not add that the rebels did knowingly employ serial killers and other evil people, simply because they were too good at their job and the rebellion was in no position to turn them down. **2.Muh-Rey-Sue is the Mary Sue, but Snoke is The Author** People consider Rey to be a weak character because her powers were given, not earned. Why not roll with it? What if she's an experiment of Big Snoke and when it comes to a final confrontation, he simply does a "Would you kindly?" and turns the ultimate Mary Sue against her friends. Top fucking kek. **3. The new rebellion is lead by former First Order soldiers and the remnants of the Resistance** Couple it with previous points to get some tension going between them.
Disney had several cartoons that were much better at continuity. Gargoyles, for one. More recently, TRON: Uprising - that was a very solid use of the hero of another story who failed, and is now the mentor for the hero.
Remember when *Jedi Master* Luke Skywalker walked into Jabba's palace and single-handedly broke out his friends and killed Jabba without any complications? _yeah, me neither_
Remember how in the first movie we see the Jedi Mind Trick and after training with two masters and in the third movie Luke now can do it? Remember how Rey did it in the first movie on a whim after learning the Force was real? But nah, nah man. Rey isn't a Mary Sue and is the same skill level as Luke, no difference at all...
Blake Tyson Yeah. Remember how he did it by exploiting the environment and paying close attention to his surroundings, and still almost got bit in half and crushed in the Rancor’s grip? Rather than just saying “The Force” and yeeting the Rancor? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
@@emberfist8347 - I'm not sure he didn't use the force. He put the stone exactly where he wanted after all. Sort of like what he did with his X-wing's proton torpedoes in A New Hope.
Whenever someone says to me, if Rey is a Mary Sue, then so its Luke and Anakin. And i'm just sexist for hating Rey i have this 2 replies: "Even if they were a Mary Sue as well(and they weren't) but even assuming you are right, two wrongs doesn't make a right. Just because they were a mary sue doesn't mean you have to be a bad writer with the new character and make him/her a Mary Sue as well. It just mean you didn't learn from the mistakes done before. And 2, saying Rey is a mary sue its not attacking women. its not an attack on feminism. if anything its attack on males. Because calling a character a Mary Sue, it's actually an attack on bad writing, and since the writers for all 3 movies were male, then the attack is on male writers. So your argument for calling me sexist is invalid. Although since you are already attacking and insulting me, making assumptions on my character because i dare criticize a character within a movie franchise, then you obviously don't care about logic." Anyways, awesome video. Whenever i get into an argument with an SJW defending the sequels i come over to watch your videos again man. it's like a cleansing bath after getting dirt all over me.
Also the argument the actor of Rey gave where she was like "The Term is sexist, its a woman's name" is idiotic. For one thing, male characters can be Mary Sues as well, despite the female name its a universal term. Besides that, the reason its a female name to begin with is because a female character started the trend by parodying such characters. Mary Sue is a fan fic character from a Star Trek magazine that literally parodies other similar fan fics that have characters that are abnormally talented and loved and that's where the term comes from. The character could have been called Johnny Dick Cheese and we'd still be here calling Rey a Johnny Dick Cheese. People also seem confused why female characters seem to get the most flak. The simple fact being is they get WAAAY too much undeserved protection. Call Batman a Mary Sue and no one but fans give a shit and they'd only give a small little argument about it. Call Luke Skywalker a Mary Sue and at least in the past before this controversy started, the same thing would occur, no one would care except fans who still wouldn't take it as an attack on them. But you call Rey a Mary Sue, or Captain Marvel or whatever and somehow this means you hate every women ever. Criticizing this one fictional woman means you hate every woman, real or fictional. It then leads to a long controversy where everyone discusses if this is a sign that society is misogynistic because someone said they didn't like Rey. This never happens for a male character, no one ever goes this far to protect a male character and this is why female Mary Sues are worse. They are treated as sacred and immune to criticism. You must 100% like them or you are a horrible person. Its ironically the fault of the defenders that she is worse than a similarily written male character because there extreme amount of care makes the issue worse. If people acted the same as they would for a similar complaint of Batman, people would have forgotten this by now but they can't let it go so the complaints will keep coming.
Even when Ray was fresh and new I bought that comparisons to Luke Skywalker and make them direct Anakin in the prequel trilogy pre the Clone Wars animated spin-offs giving him much-needed room to grow flesh out 'n develop When kid Anakin showed up with his amazing technical skills piloting ability and gosh gee willikers attitude and ignorant saving of the day people hate the s*** out of him. Doing that all again but slightly older Daisy Ridley but oddly enough with the less community support and more attempt to make everybody love the character looks like they combined the worst parts of Jar Jar with none of the mitigating parts. Obi-Wan hates jar jar through most of it and he ends up redeeming himself by acting as a bridge between people who we would likely write off Eventually the series deviates by making it all about Rey in the force awakens at the end making everyone else's Journey or development irrelevant unless you Count Olaf look we're going to tease Finn & Poe might actually be lovers. Ignoring the fact that I really hate it po just suddenly coming back to life halfway through the film Last Jedi did redeem that character for me but unfortunately it had to throw a lot else under the bus because of it. And it firmly divides me between holdo was made out of pure conflict ball orpo was a fuckboy because he seemed eager to take offense and undermine everybody trying to ask him to be reasonable.
That's such an easy argument to defeat. Luke and Anakin both had training, with Anakin having the benefit of actual Jedi Academy training. Young Anakin...for the most part didn't do anything TO outstanding since he's been piloting pod racers for a while and was unconsciously using the force to assist. Admittedly that should not have translated over to piloting a fighter but at least its SOMETHING. Luke on the other hand expressly had training in fighters, he piloted a sky hopper through dangerous conditions while training to join the rebellion. Rey...? Studied...via...the headset she had at the start of TFA? Piloted a giant Popsicle? Luke had some training under Obi-Wan and still struggled to pull his lightsaber out of the ice in the SECOND movie, while Anakin didn't start using the force until the same movie, but after literally years of training. Rey is using complex force powers that take years of training by the end of the first movie and going head to head with a Sith who has had saber training from TWO separate masters, one Jedi one Sith, with zero experience or training in lightsaber fighting. Both Luke and Anakin, in comparison, had some training under one of the greatest masters in Lukes case and years of saber training in Anakins case and BOTH lost to stronger opponents in the second movie and suffered for it. Rey...never loses. To anyone. Ever. At anything.
The prequels showed how the heroes failed at preventing the Empire, Obi Wan failing as a teacher, the jedi council as guardians of peace, the Republic as a stable and fair governement. The trilogy was about the new generation learning and making a new world for themselves. Anakin (although the acting might not have been great) was the key. The Chosen One's prophecy makes sense in the long run, as he defeated Palpatine, something he could have done in the prequels but couldn't because of his own mistakes (helping in the death of Mace Windu). What Anakin/Vader got was the same cycle than LD's version of Luke cycle, where he's not the mentor, but the antagonist. Luke should have learned from it, and yet does the same mistake AND ALSO does it even worse than before. Failure of his father didn't teach him jack crap. This is my reason I hated Luke's story in the sequels originally. LD and others explained to me what I felt in a more logical way.
What universe? More like just a handful of anonymous systems that was fought over nothing and did nothing to change the unestablished status quo of the galaxy after ROTJ. If these movies have a message its that no matter how bad your idea is as long you have the clout in Hollywood you can get away with anything.
So in a nutshell, The Last Jedi COULD'VE BEEN GOOD with all the contraversial things in it. It's just that Rian Johnson never executed it right. As the inhumanly human Rick Sanchez once said, "There's no such thing as a bad idea Morty. There's just poor execution."
They could have just made Luke into Yoda. He could even have thought that he failed Ben by starting his training at too old an age, and said that Rey was too old to train. Derivative, but it would make sense.
In my opinion, Bilbo completed his circle when he stole the Arkenstone from the Lonely Mountain treasure, gave it to the Bard and Thranduil AND then came back to Thorin: 1. He was employed by the dwarves as the burglar - and he stole the most valuable artifact in the Erebor not for the dwarves, but from them 2. Before that event Bilbo has two struggling parts of personality - everybody remembers his calm and fearful 'Baggins nature', but he had also some recklessness and thrill for adventure of Tooks (e.g. during his first adventure in the Wild, he got in trouble because of this, when he was trying to stole something from the trolls instead of informing dwarves about them) - when he gave the Arkenstone to the elves and men, he did something that required great courage of the Tooks, but he did that to protect the peace - so it was the way of the Baggins 3. His return to Thorin, after he gave his treasure to his opponents, shows great loyalty and that Bilbo learnt to value it more than his life.
I am always struck by your ability to rewrite the focus of your critique in a way that would be successful. You don't change the core of it, but just bend and twist things around so that it is still the same thing but definitively better. Great video as always, looking forward to more.
I think what makes this nihilistic attempt at story telling so frustrating is that it undermines what we all hope for: which is we all hope that at some point, our hard work and sacrifice is worth it.
Excellently said, espescially the highlight of the gap of Luke's development between the OT and ST. We don't need to *see* every single detail that got him there, we just to *know* how he got there somehow, be it through flashbacks or carefully written lines. But we don't have a clue what landed Luke into a emo cynic, *and that is the problem*.
I'd forgive emo and cynical Luke. If it were George Lucas I'd raise a brow but new company new direction so whatever. What I can't forgive is that Luke would even consider killing anyone in their sleep just cus he got the willies. That was dumb. Extremely dumb. I'd have a hard time believing anyone outside of a crazy paranoid or a mustache-twirling villain would do that, let alone someone who was supposed to be a good guy, no matter how jaded. That pissed me off so much. I haven't watched anything StarWars since. I'd like to keep my good childhood memories intact.
@IAN HEINE You do realise that you are saying "all of the sudden" about a THIRTY YEAR GAP. You've left Luke when he was 19, and met him again when he was 50. His entire life went by off-screen, and all we know is that his efforts to live up to the expectation people had of him ended up in a catastrophy. "what was stopping him from just rebuilding" - gee, I don't know, maybe the graves of his students he had to dig with his own hands and the letters to their families he had to write? You do realise that tragedies like this tend to break people, make them fearful of repeated failure? Yes, it was a wrong decision to leave such monumental changes off-screen, but if you reject the changes themselves, if you demand that through his entire life Luke should've remained completely immune to doubt, fear, peer pressure, manipulation and impuliveness, and that he should've shrugged off the deaths of his students, his wards, for which he was tangentially responsible... then who is the fucking Mary Sue here?
@@Alknix Sure that change is possible. With good reasons. With character development. Neither of which we were given. Not even hints. Just stating "everything's different now" is treating neither the fans with respect ("you don't need to know the why") nor the beloved character ("you don't deserve more story"). This approach to story-telling is condescending and cheap. Frankly, it is a slap in the face to anyone who loved the original story. And we all can see that there is not a single ounce of respect towards the source material. They didn't even deign to give Mark Hamill enough information to understand how and why his character changed. They didn't even employ the annoying recent custom of pushing off all the necessary information into some sort of comic released alongside or slightly later. They didn't placate the fans that there's good reasons as to why Luke is different. We simply were told to shut up and leave if we didn't worship at the altar of their new (badly written and wasted) characters.
@@Runenschuppe Precisely. One of Luke's defining moments (if not *the* defining moment) was his willingness to hold out for the redemption of his thoroughly corrupted father. And now you're expecting me to just accept that he would be willing to kill his own nephew over a bad dream the next time I see him. I believe such a sharp 180 on the previous protagonist deserves a more solid explanation.
Between Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace, I think there was a really good connection. We saw Palpatine's rise to power as the Chancellor in The Phantom Menace, and we saw his fall from power in The Return of the Jedi.
We also saw the fall of Anakin and the Return of Anakin. It's interesting because George Lukas described the original trilogy as 'The tragedy of Darth Vader', not the heroic deeds of Luke. Anyway, the point made in the video is about 'rhymes'. Classical types of rhymes involved either verses being paired one after another 'I've been dreaming about the stormy sea/ in a warm home, sipping tea/Wish I had someone to talk to/Oh, how much I miss you', They can be alternating ABAB or 'hugged' ABBA. From all of those, the most pleaseant is the first one, because it instantly creates a phonetic pattern for the reader/listener. So, returning to the Star Wars universe, the rhyme and rythm are a bit broken. Judging by the fate of Anakin and Luke, it would be a rhyme of ABCABC. This does not strike as a classical type, nor a very pleasing one. However, there are differences in the narrative points as well. Let's look at the B part, meaning Attack of the Clones and The Empire Strikes Back. In AoC the struggle between good and evil ends in a high note, with the Republic gaining the clones and being triumphant over the evil Sith. In TESB it's the exact opposite, a truely Apocalyptic note, the hero is left crippled and his friends are taken prisoners.
@@nottoday3817 Actually, the ending of AotC can be considered "darker" than TESB's ending because it heralds the extermination of the Jedi, the fall of the Republic, and Anakin's turn to the Dark Side. Conversely, at the end of TESB, Luke--despite being beaten and maimed--is filled with a renewed sense of purpose. The ending heralds the revival of the Jedi, the fall of the Empire, and Darth Vader's return to the Light. Both endings convey the same thing: an outcome that is superficially the opposite of what will ultimately transpire. So, in that sense, they do "rhyme" quite well...from a certain point of view.
This is why they shouldn't have done a "sequel", but another story. Looking at SW videogames, you get new characters, Kyle Katarn, Jaden, Revan...you get new stories and conflicts...like, just in SWTOR, you have 8 complete stories that could have made kick ass movies or shows, because they're not burdened by "we need it to be the direct continuation of a story that already ended". I guess Disney is great at direct-to-dvd sequels to finished stories. Think about this, if you remove all the OT characters, the sequels don't hold up any interest...except for Reylos.
I mean, the banker in a game of Monopoly could decide halfway through the game that the banker gets going to draw $1000 every time they pass GO. Everyone else is going to leave the game, though.
What bothers me is the thought that is distributed a lot: "it's about space wizards" "it's a story for kids" This is nothing but BS. This is part of the American culture I never liked: babying kids, as if kids can't handle the truth and the world Growing up I watched Japanese Anime, cartoons even, like Voltes V (five). A show that demonstrated: 1. How badass a mother can be flying a plane to give her 3 sons time to win the battle later even if it cost her life 2. A female ninja Voltes V team member (that can whoop 3 of the other 4 team members) who loves and listens to her General Father who is the leader of the forces supporting the Voltes V team 3. A prince born abnormally and cast out, who has to live his life in another planet 4. A prince who's got a chip on his shoulder and is on a crusade based on a lie he found out later that was being hidden from him 5. I can go on so much so-called mature content in this show that's meant to be "for kids." Kids can handle a lot and understands storyline. It's the writers that just can't admit they are not very good writers to begin with and needs to go to writing school.
I would refer any such claim "stories for children" to Avatar: the Last Airbender; a "show for kids" that is such an incredible piece of screenwriting it should universally studied.
The "it's just for kids" clutch comes from the adolecent mindset of wanting to be seen as an adult and finding everything considered childish to be shameful. There can be wisdom in the stories that children enjoy that you can't find unless you grow and realise that there was something in there to learn.
Even shows like adventure time have underlying themes that are considered mature, yet our American culture sees cartoons as things for kids to watch on Saturday mornings
Subverting expectations can work well within a story but only if it makes the story more interesting. For example, in Empire Strikes Back, when Darth Vader revealed to Luke that he was his father, that was an subversion of expectations but it was a great plot twist as it left us wondering how the story will proceed with this revelation, which is followed up on with the Return of the Jedi. The Last Jedi, on the other hand, completely fails with it's numerous subversions because each one of them brought various plot threads to a screeching halt. Who are Rey's parents? Who cares, they're nobodies! Who is Snoke? Who cares, he's dead now! What happened to Luke Skywalker? He's an emo cynic now because he did something completely out of character and caused his own fall from grace. He also dies in the end so he's no longer important. Was Finn and Rose's attempt to recruit a hacker help save the day? Nope, their story arc was a waste of time but hey, at least those beasts at the casino were freed! Oh wait... nah, they probably just got captured again. Too bad they didn't bother saving those kids who were being used as slave labor, I'm sure they would had appreciated the rescue.
The other thing about subverting expectations or as I call it using a twist is that the twist needs to make and be foreshadowed. Vader being Luke's father was foreshadowed by the scene where Luke enters the cave on Dagobagh and fights the apparition of Vader which Lule's face under the helmet after Luke decapitates the apparition. That is good foreshadowing.
I find the biggest issue of the last jedi is... what's in store for the next film Ryan? What plot threads did you leave at the end of your movie? Any and all mysteries JJ set up have been deleted and diminished. This story is now about nothing, there's no foreshadowing or story details just...nothing. so ofcourse JJ had to pull anything out of his a55 like dyads and palpatine cuz... where do we go now?
I'm currently developing a comic book on IndieGoGo if you want to check it out. (112 pages for the main story) www.indiegogo.com/projects/doctor-alpha-miracle-child-graphic-novel/x/22169562#/
Can't wait for 20 years down the road when they make Episode 10, and they dredge up Daisy Ridley just to make her a trash character that decided to kill everyone, and then the true hero is a gender-fluid trandoshan that identifies as a toaster.
id expect the new characters to die, and then Rey comes in and becomes the main character in the last half of the movie. triple down on that shit, Disney
I’d like to think that Kylo Force-impregnated her like Palpatine did Shmi, and Rey dies in childbirth (like Padma cuz poetry) so the trilogy would be about her twin children, the proper heirs to the Skywalker bloodline and Solo name, Jaina and Jacen Solo.
Is it polished, though? I see all the obvious grammatical errors and always ask myself if he's doing it on purpose or actually fucking up. I still enjoy the videos, but it irks me that he puts his material into writing in very attention grabbing ways, and there's hideous grammatical mistakes.
@@LyaksandraB Perhaps english is simply not his first language? I mean, I've been learning english for a decade and a half now, and I still make multiple grammatical errors a native speaker could propably avoid with ease simply because I'm more used to my native grammar and I switch back to it subconciously.
Asimov's short story collection "I, Robot" is an excellent study in following internal canonical rules (the laws of robotics), subverting expectations (the paradoxes at the center of each story) and providing a satisfactory ending (the denouement to each story).
Thing about subverting expectations is that it needs to make sense. Like would the Godfather be any better if Sonny was abducted by Aliens instead of assassinated by a rival family and have that event be forgotten after it happens?
it's amazing how you managed to condense everything they did wrong with Luke in this trilogy. Alas, one of my favorite heroes fallen because of some wannabe director/screen writer's ego and "ingenuity". Whenever I see your videos I believe there is still sane people in this world.
What do you expect, for Luke to get in the war right away. He had to deal with his father on the dark side and now his nephew, you think he won’t be a little freaked out when he senses fear in Rey.
@@ffjreviews9029 I didn't expect him to get in the war right away. I expected the movie to give me an explanation as to why he went from a guy that, when the entire galaxy wanted to kill his father, found a way to redeem him to a guy that just because had a bad dream just went and tried to kill his own nephew without even trying to talk to him. An explanation about how he went from the most optimistic guy in the galaxy to a edgy hermit besides "he had a bad dream".
The issue with your Luke redemption arc, is that giving Luke any kind of limelight would have been misogynistic, chauvinistic, racist, patriarchal and nazi. Remember, SJWs always paint themselves into corners due to their ideology. If you want to write a story about a dude, you first have to consider how badly you've bashed dudes in front of your SJW peers, because you can be sure they will remember and hold you up to that standard. And now I've written like half of all the comments at this point. I'm fucking mental. Sorry.
You don't seem mental, just disappointed, so no need to apologize, just pull up a stool at the bar, order a drink, and make merry with the rest of us, for tomorrow is a new day, the disappointing past is gone save in memory, and we shall make entertainment great again.
*Your argument was nothing but a strawman.* *Abrams didn't give Luke any limelight because he just wanted to copy the OT and make Luke into the hermit Obi-Wan/Yoda of the DT and combined that with his stupid Mystery Box.*
Lyaksandra B I know plenty of sjws who hate the sequel trilogy and love Luke skywalker, myself included (okay i don’t hate the sequels but I do think they’re immensely flawed). Luke is my favorite of the protagonists and that’s because he was a well written character. Anakin wasn’t handled as well but thanks to clone wars i like him a lot better and think his descent to the dark side was done really well and was really tragic. I feel like rey just needed the extra development to become a far better character
Regarding the Aladdin comment about the movie moral vs the original fable moral. The movie actually does adapt the original moral into the climax of the film. Just like the original, Aladdin does in fact lose everything, but in the movie it is because of his weakness of not being honest and not having any confidence in that he is good enough without the Genie helping him. Had he released the Genie earlier as originally promised and been honest to Jasmine and the Sultan from the start, Yago would not have had the opportunity to steal the lamp and give it to Jafar, showing that how a lack of moral character can lead to consequences. It is however his strength of character and wits that actually win the day when confronting Jafar in the climax of the film and he has to do it while fighting against someone who has the wealth of a Sultan and the power of the Genie at his fingertips. So the moral about lying is bad is also tied to the fable's moral about strength of character being more important than the riches one has acquired. Disney's Aladdin is actually a pretty successful adaption of the original in that sense.
Here is my question when it comes to subverting expectations: Why did the audience have that expectation? If they have an expectation because you clearly built it up, than subverting it feels cheap. Examples of both from Game of Thrones. When Ned Stark has his head cut off, that is a good subversion of expectations because they gave us no reason to believe he would live, it was outside influence that told us that would happen. When the Red Wedding happened, again, what reasons in universe did we have to believe this guy wouldn't betray them? Then season 8 happened and there were subversion that didn't work. Aya killed the Night King dispite John being heavily hinted at by the writers themselves to be the one to kill him, making no sense and being a bad twist. Then there is the whole King Bran thing, which was a ninth hour drop that could not have been worse. Yeah none of the players the writers set up win, it goes to someone not involved at all.
So, this basically confirms that on a deep psychological level, people are not only correct but completely honest when they say that it would be fine if the given movie ruined by SJWs was about anything else, instead of trying to ride the coat tails of its predecessors. So, we're back to square one. SJWs, make your own shit and stop trying to co-opt other people's shit.
Therein lies the problem. They can't create. They aren't even capable of the effort to learn the skills necessary to create anything. The only thing they can do is to destroy. They aren't even willing to pay and read/watch the entertainment made for them.
@@grayscribe1342 It's kind of hard to create if you don't have anything worth saying. And moralistic nihilism is a sure fire way to ensure you have nothing worth saying. (This is why they don't like heroes. They can't get how people can have morals. That seems judgemental and bigoted to them.) For example, I'm bisexual, but I don't like the idea of "identifying" as bisexual. I prefer to identify by religion, which is Christian. And the reason for that is because I can always be a better Christian. I can always love people more. I can always be more patient. I can always pray more. I can always live the commandments better. There's an "end game" to it. Gay? How do I get better at being that? The only "morals' they can claim is representation. All they can do is represent more "marginalized" groups and that's it. And honestly, I find the idea very childish. I'm pretty sure that the reason that inner city black kid didn't graduate from high school has nothing to do with the fact that Superman is white. I'm sure that depicting capitalists as evil in Star Wars did absolutely nothing to bring anyone out of poverty.
@@TheRisky9 You've hit the nail on the head with the gay thing. Am awful lot of BS on Twitter can be easily explained when you think of it as someone trying to prove how they're better at gayness than other people. I've never understood the whole pride scene for the same reason - being gay isn't something you've achieved, it's just something you are. Being obsessively proud of it is as weird to me as being obsessively proud of your eye colour or your birthday.
Problem with that is that they do make their own stuff and when they do it's still super bad. I mean, sure it's a self-contained dumpster fire that even their target audience rolls their eyes at, but it's out there. They ruin not only that which is co-opted, but that which is of their own creation. It's all basically just them patting themselves on the back for 'the first strong (insert minority)' and shoving as many token people into the script as possible. It's awful, and they get Oscars and Emmys and whatever else your get for movie awards for doing that crap.
@@grayscribe1342 I don't think they even want to create good things. They corrupt good things and create pure propaganda because deep down, they are nihilistic. They hate the good. They want a world where there is no good, because only then will they not be the piece of shit they know themselves to be.
Lessons like the one you just posted in this video are what is honing my skills as a writer. A true hero is not defined by by victory. A hero is defined by action and the inspiration they gift to those who have lost hope. Heroes die on the battlefield all the time. But their death doesn't make them any less a hero. In fact, it contributes to the power of their heroism, showing that they are willing to pay any price for their ideals, including the ultimate price. That's why in Greek mythology the Gods themselves were never called the heroes. I mean, they could snap their fingers and their enemies fall dead. How heroic is that? No, the heroes were the ones who fought, bled, suffered and even died on their epic quests. The real heroes were those who even had the balls to thumb their noses at the gods, despite the terrible things that could happen to them. It's not heroic to succeed. It's heroic to attempt to succeed despite the odds.
You know what piece of media describes perfectly what it means to be a hero? One Punch Man. Saitama is not a hero for very literally beating all bad guys in one hit. He's a hero because he's willing to fight despite not getting anything in return. And the most badass, heroic, noble, selfless, and virtuous of all of the so-called "heroes"?? Not the brat with psychic powers, nor the child genius, nor the cyborg, nor the mad scientist, nor the man in a dog costume. IT'S MUMEN FUCKING RIDER. The man with no superpowers that rides a bike. He's one of thr bravest characters I've seen. He knows too well that he's just some dude in a bike, and he still fights because it's the right thing to do. He's like the fucking embodiment of the fighting human spirit. He never gives up even against the most insurmountable odds... because he's a hero. And that's what heroes do. _"I know no one expects much from me. And I know better than anyone how useless a C-class hero is! I know I'm too weak for B-class. I know better than anyone else that I'll never beat you!! But I must fight you anyways!!"_
going to Hercules for an example (at least, the Disney adaptation) remember that despite all the monsters Hercules stopped and all the people he saved, that was not what made him a true hero (even Zeus said it). What made him a true hero was his willingness to sacrifice himself to save one person in a situation where he couldn't depend on his strength to get him through (you could probably argue that his strength had been a crutch for the entire movie (not counting the early parts of the movie before he truly begins his journey where it's a source of trouble)) (note that I'm not sure how much of the Disney adaptation is true to the original story)
13:50 It also would downplay the other aspects of the movie. See, an interesting thing about Po victory over Tai Lung is that he not only won due to training but also due to his panda anatomy. Po is, for lack of a better word, a punching bag, he is shown to be extremely resilient and able to withstand huge amounts of physical trauma(because he is fat), this now only was crucial into facing Tai Lung, but also it made him resist the Leopard signature technique: The Pressure Points Attack; Po blubber body made him effectively immune to the technique and is inclusively foreshadowed during the middle of the movie when Mantis is trying to do acupuncture on Po but can't find the nerves due to his size. Another interesting aspect of the fight is their fighting styles. Tai Lung is hyperaggressive and has insane amounts of physical strength, which is his strong point and also why everyone failed to defeat him. Everyone who fought Tai Lung and failed tried to surpass him on physical strength only to be dominated by the Beef Monster, the only fighters who succeed in stopping Tai Lung was Oogway and Po because they fought him with different approaches. Oogway acted fast and paralyzed him with a Chi Technique, and Po acted more defensively, focusing(even if not intentionally) into tiring the Leopard with his shenanigans and counterattacking his moves, Po style is said on official media to be defensive and it shows, since Po overcomes Tai Lung by using the Feline's own strength against him(see the scene where he double-punched Po after failing to use the pressure points), this also ties to what Shifu said on the begging, that the key to victory is finding the opponents weak point and then using your strong point against it. Tai Lung doesn't have any notable weak point, so Po used his strong point(defense) to transform Tai Lung's strong point into a weak point. Sorry for the long text, but this just shows how well-thought the whole thing was, all ties perfectly to create a strong and very satisfying cycle. The movie establishes its rules, quirks, and everything to be used later on the climax, and the results are well... awesome! Great video anyway.
jweltsch22 my point is that every f*cking Star Wars character is good at shit. Like nobody ever asked “how the hell can Anakin destroy a ship” or “how the hell can Obi-Wan Beat a Sith Lord when his master couldn’t even do that” or “How can Luke grab a lightsaber with such little training”.
@@ffjreviews9029 In the case of Obi-Wan he is facing a sith apprentice not the master and he is also a trained padawan on the verge of becoming a knight and luke could grab a lightsaber without training and get his hand cut off… for Anakin? Bullshit he should have been blasted in space, but you know like in those new movies: THE FORCE.
@@thil2894 No Anakin was established to a incredible the Notice he is the only human podracer. That is because only a very powerful human force-user like Anakin could fly a podracer with the skill needed to win a race. Also Anakin crashed inside the ship's hanger and stopped at the very end of the hanger where you have the main reactors for the ship.
@@ffjreviews9029 Luke had a training with Ben in A New Hope and we don't see all of it. Plus we already saw him grab and guide the proton torpedoes into the exhaust port.
Fiction rules do matter, we have something called suspesion of disbelief, and it can be broken not by lack of realism, but by inconsistency and contradictions. This applies to ALMOST EVERYTHING, even as something like say "Fairy Odd Parents". Okay just hear me out. When the first seasons were airing, there were a few rules that forbid Timmy of wishing the following: -The godchild is the only one allowed to see their faries, and they will lose them if they are seen by anyone else (parents, friends, etc) -Making Somone Falling in Love or interfere in romatic relationships. -Kill somone someone directly. This is done because while the idea of a kid having the power to wish for something sounds cool, these rules and limitations allow the writers to not play the game of "why not have Timmy make this wish". Also only miserable kids can have godparents (usually due to parental neglect and abuse) Come seasons 6,7,8 and onward and almost all of theses things were slowly thrown out the window. Cosmo and Wanda were regulary seen by humans like CROCKER, Making new rules up one episode to make the plot go along, and Chloe which is just.......ugh. Goes to show you that saying "It's just fiction" is always a bad argument, and a sing of laziness and lack of commitment to the craftmanship of writing, wheter be action, comedic, dramatic, etc. Fiction is like a Magician show. Yes it's an illusion and not real, but it takes effort and talent to make it happen, making sure all the steps are followed correctly and all the gears are moving in place.
The plot is driven by what the (protagonist's) magic can't do, rather than what the magic can do, almost my definition. In an all-powerful hero doesn't have adventures. Rather, stuff happens to, or rather around, an omnipotent hero, but is all meaningless sound and fury, having no consequence.
In the video game Jedi Knight 2, Luke has a student who murdered a fellow student, fled, became a leader of an Imperial remnant, trained his own apprentice, and led an army of Imperial remnants and artificially-created sith that almost destroyed Luke's academy. Through it all, Luke remained determined to see the whole thing through. It would've taken more than a bad dream and a rogue student to change his mind.
Even Jon Snow getting killed by the night king would have been more satisfying. After that journey, Jon Snow is asked "is it enough?" And the answer would be no! But we don't even get an answer
You kow how I would have ended that shit? Long night 2: Electric Boogaloo. The Night King snaps Arya's neck. The white walkers kill all dothraki and overwhelm Winterfell with sheer numbers. They go to King's Landing and wreck the city's asshole. Fuck your iron throne. Fuck your pathetic political intrigue. This is the end of Westeros in the hands of a far more powerful and ancestral menace. The final shot: The iron throne covered in ice, with the sun slowly setting over the ruins of King's Landing. Winter has come... whether you like it or not.
The tone in the sequel trilogy is almost Lovecraftian. The heroes don't control their own fate, rather the force creates and destroys heroes like the procession of the seasons. Everything that the heroes do will be undone within their own lifetimes, putting them back to where they started. Meanwhile, the force will create a new hero on its own. Any attempt at training, mentoring, or even passing along wisdom is as ineffective as King Canute commanding the tide. Rather, the purposeless waxing and waning of the light and dark sides of the force is actually driving the universe, and the actions of the heroes, and even the heroes themselves, are but a shadow of this.
In other words: if I ever suddenly gain the power to levitate things, control minds, and shoot lightning out of my fingertips Imma levitate me a Coke, make my landlord "forget" about my rent, power up my game console, and stay home.
Dude, this describes the Terminator series. Judgment Day said that "there's no fate but what we make for ourselves," yet the third one contradicts this with Arnie's claim that "judgment day is inevitable". Even when Skynet is erased, Legion rises from the ashes with the exact same future. John Connor is no longer the sole savior of humanity. Arnie kills him in the first ten minutes of Dark Fate, and a tiny Mexican girl named Dani is "destined" to take his place as humanity's protector. And I bet if _she_ dies, there will probably be another. So the struggling feels more and more pointless.
Under such a rendition of the setting, the only logical action is Kreia's plan to kill the force itself. If 'the gods' are setting people up to suffer constantly, then they are evil and destroying them IS the heroic quest you should set yourself upon.
You hit the nail on the head. My fundamental problem with modern storytelling is that they are are unable to create compelling characters on their own. However, they have enough self-awarness to realize this and instead choose to denigrate the great characters of the past. They choose to punish the audience for their love of these old characters.
@@Lordpoison67 and I've found a doppelganger, though I will admit it may be a coincidence. Regardless I do agree that drinking probably won't work, I've never been drunk, but the closest I got, I spent as an encyclopedia for vast knowledge, literally getting into a topic and just running with it until getting onto a massive tangent. If anything drinking would just make me more vocal about my disdain for these movies.
Sorry Tom, but I'll have to agree with the others. There are a lot of bad movies you can thoroughly enjoy while drunk (or on other drugs as I repeatedly hear). But most of recent Hollywood media does not fall under that category. They still stay full of condescension that leeches out any enjoyment.
I have no problem with Luke coming to the conclusion that the Jedi way of doing things were wrong, the prequel's even set the precedent for it with Anakin's story, and how rigid and cold the Jedi order were the problem lies in the execution. Very poorly written and it had no clear goal. If "grey Jedi" was the main plot of the sequel trilogy that's what they should've followed. Luke should've been the one to reinvent the Jedi with new rules and Rey should've been the first Grey Jedi, could've been an epic tale.
No the Jedi protected through thick and for a thousand generations. Yes maybe some rules may not the best but they were necessary. Anakin is exhibit for why the Jedi have a rule against emotional attachment.
@@emberfist8347 you can't tell a human to ignore thier most poweful trait that's why you get psycho murderers or suicidal maniacs. They don't address their emotions, they keep it all locked up until they go insane. The jedi are not evil or bad they just had it wrong, at least that's the only way you could write a sequel about Luke being disillusioned with the order. Qui Gon was an example of a grey Jedi, he was an anomaly in the jedi council, he was emotional, caring and considerate he saved jar jar when he didnt have to, he wanted to save anakins mum. Him wanting to jedi to train anakin caused the galaxy a lot of death and destruction true but I feel only Vader could defeat palpatine I think that was the point of him being the chosen one. Palpatine would never have been defeated without anakins journey. Obi Wan even said "you'd be on the council if you weren't so combative" something along those lines, he wouldn't fall in line I think the jedi needed to be more like qui-gon even Yoda was pretty cold and stern only in the og trilogy did Yoda relax a little.
DoubleO88 A line from Mace Windu in the novel Shatterpoint is perfect for describing why the Jedi have their rules to follow. Jedi don’t things because they are right they do it because it is safe. Knights of the Old Republic further discusses this but to sum it up, Jedi are like Buddhist Monks they don’t ignore their emotions they just work to keep them in check. Anakin’s specific problem and why the Jedi forbids romantic relationships is because it can interfere with there judgement.
@@brucejedilee5290 Except Luke's order allowing relationships led to some of his students turning to the Dark Side during the events of Legacy Of The Force which vindicates the Jedi's decision to ban it. Also the Prequels was showed why the Jedi do that. Plus as Mace pointed in the novel Shatterpoint, the Jedi don't that kind of stuff because it is right, they do it because it is safe.
It sounds like these so called show-runners try way too hard to be clever with these works and then they utterly fail. You quoting "Luke Skywalker" from The Last Redundancy reinforces my disdain towards that film, the people involved, the apologists and Disney. What a load of nihilistic tripe.
I honestly feel like that is an issue with a lot of writers these days. Instead of trying to make something entertaining they instead want to stroke their own ego by making something clever, surprising, dark or mature. What they fail to understand however is the shit they are working on is not their own creations. They didn't create things like Starwars or Superman or the Fantastic Four or whatever so all their ideas only hurt it. What does it matter if you subverted expectations, you made everyone hate your film. So what if you added all these boring philosophical questions into Batman Vs Superman, its still boring as shit and people only remember the Martha scene, and shitty versions of Lex and Doomsday. Why even add dark elements in the Fantastic Four when it becomes more forgettable than the other two failed attempts and people only remember the dumbass spelling of the name, Fant4stic or whatever. A lot of writers just want to make some grand statement, deconstruct something popular make themselves appear moral. Just write a fun story, leave that shit for Twitter, it'll be more successful for them.
What i love about "You didn't complain when Luke did it" line of argument is that it wouldn't work even if it were true. I mean, some stunts do only work once. Also, never watched E8 and E9, so it's an unpleasant surprise to me that Luke attempted to kill someone for a thought crime.
Briliant as aways! Not only you broke down the essence of where they went wrong with the New star Wars movies, but it is also aplicable to many other garbage movies Hollywood has been puking into our faces these last years
To Hell with these movies. Luke Skywalker will always be The Hero of the Galactic Civil Wars and the Yuuzhan Vong War, husband of Mara, father of Ben, uncle of Jacen and Jaina, Slayer of Abelon and Grand Master of the New Jedi Order.
Thanks for giving words to everything I felt while watching “The Last Jedi.” The writers didn’t honor the character of Luke Skywalker in this movie, and the results were disastrous.
From 31:07-32:12, yet despite denegrating Luke, the Jedi, and heroism for the whole movie, Luke says at the end "...I will not be the last Jedi." All I could think when seeing that was to sarcastically say "Yay, the Jedi are going to continue their legacy of failure." I don't understand why we were supposed to be excited for Rey after hearing, for two hours, that the Jedi need to end.
As a long time 'writer' I always believed that the rules of any fictional universe can be broken, but, and it's a huge frigging BUT there needs to be a reason behind it and I mean a really good reason and the story if it doesn't revolve wholly around the how and the why it needs to be a very present sub-plot. Stories where the rules are broken can be fascinating and intriguing stories. Also, as the axiom says, the breaker of that rule needs to know the rules before they do so.
Not only do you need to know the rules, you need to know them like the back of your hand. And just as often, the exceptions to the rules _define_ the rules.
Sanderson's first law of magic: "An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic." If the reader cannot understand HOW things work, you're pulling things out of your ass. Simple, ain't it? Change "magic" with "technology", "the rules", "superpowers", "the force"... and we covered all genres. I know this. We KNOW this. But writer "pros" do not.
I think it's not so much you're "breaking rules" as it is that you're expanding the rules to include either consequences, exclusions, or conditions. For example, you might have a rule that you have to have some kind of totem in order to use magic. But along comes a hero who can use magic without a totem. That seemingly breaks the rules... or does it? If you say, "Well, the totems prevent the magic from sucking the user's life force." If it's because you simply wanted the hero to be special, okay, but then never explore why he or she is an exclusion, then you've got a problem. It comes off that you just don't care.
the writer might create the world that the story takes place in but the created world is what writes script, if you establish a world and rules within that world then you need to follow those rules, the world shouldn't bend to fit the script, the script should bend to fit the world you cant write a brave/noble knight then in the next scene have him slay an innocent village because you as the writer needed it to happen.
Technically, the setting and characters are subservient to the plot, otherwise, the author will fall into world-building disease (if setting is unrestrained) or Mary Sues (if characters are unrestrained.) But, sequels have the limitation of being in an already existing setting. In a single work, it is easy for the writer to obey his own rules, as he is free to create the rules. But, even in a single work, the rules are revealed early in the story, before the rules come into play. A sequel works under the limitations of a previous work, often written decades earlier by someone else. But, those very limitations are the point. The viewer wants to see what happens in the characters in the future.
@@blkgardner Nobody talks about the inverse of this "world-building disease" quite so much. Remember when Rowling invented a _practical time machine_ to fuel the final act in the third Potter book? And what did she say about it four books later....
You are SO right, about everything! This fact that Luke is seen as a hopeful illusion more than as an actual hero always pissed me off. He IS a hero. And - with all his struggles and failures, for sure - he should’ve remained one. Even in an archetypical sense, he’s not a Mentor (like Yoda and Obi). He is a Hero. He’s not a Merlin, he’s a King Arthur. And old Arthur himself is in fact very much what Luke should’ve been. Like Luke he struggled in his old age, like Luke he was morally and physically defeated by a young relative/enemy, like Luke he saw his two best friends fall in love with each other. But unlike Luke he was there for the last battle, he was ACTUALLY there when his legendary life came to a close and was passed on to future generations. I don’t know, this fact of the Force projection is something so many dismiss as minor, but it makes a world of difference to me. Luke spent his whole Sequel Trilogy time just complaining and being depressed on that freakin island. It’s just... so sad.
I would really liked to see you talk about Kotor 2 and Kreia, and about how that game made Star Wars and the Force deeper without taking away or just stepping over already set rules of the universe. The video was really good, and good to know that there are people who don't just throw shit on the internet and telling everyone who not agrees with them, that they are racist, woman hating selfish pricks. You explained everything very well, I liked how you mentioned Kotor 1 and Po's journey from Kung Fu Panda. I hope that sometime you really make a video about Kreia. Damn, with your well based explanations it would be really interesting.
This is actually really simple: subverting expectations can be great. Example: When Luke was going to fight Vader, we expected a big climactic fight against the man who killed his father. But Vader WAS his father. Expectations subverted, and it was awesome. It made sense, it helped the story. When you Last Jedi in, AKA subverting expectations just for the sake of it, then it's terrible. Rian is a hack.
The left in the past 20 years has been working hard, not to make their own heroes, but to tear down the concept of the hero. The heroic concept requires that a single individual can achieve enough to make a difference and overcome great evil. This, however, is antithetical to the leftist, "progressive" ideal, which says that only a _collective_ can be truly heroic, because the thing the left is "progressing" toward is a collective utopia. Before they can do this, they must first deconstruct the individual hero. So they first make him weak, they make him fallible, then they make him betray what he stands for to finish off the central pillar of his heroism. Then they show him "redemption", but it is only possible through sacrificing his individuality and being subsumed by a collective. Those who comprise this collective are all failed heroes with feet of clay. It is their submission to the collective that purges them of the poison of individuality and restores their heroism through collectivism. Thus Superman, written by the left, violates his Code and breaks General Zod's neck. He is redeemed by Batman creating a collective -- the leftist Justice League -- to which all heroes must submit before they can truly be heroic. Luke was an individual hero. Because he didn't have a Jedi Order to submit to, he was fallible and failed by trying to murder Ben. He is now convinced that heroes -- individuals who can make a difference -- are myths. Only the collective Dyad is truly heroic. Of course, Kylo is an evil emo kid, and Rey is a puerile Mary Sue, but that's the appearance of their fallible individualist surfaces. The Dyad between them is the REAL hero. Thus is the concept that one person can change the world destroyed in this generation, and the Collective can win without firing a shot.
The problem with the Left trying to make our Heroes _fallible_ is that they already _were._ In trying to make a flawless hero, they make no hero at all. Not that you are wrong in your analysis.
According the contemporary left, the "collective" is also bad, because the "collective" is ran by the "patriarchy." Rey doesn't have a Jedi Order, in fact, she has far fewer mentors and other authority figures than Luke Skywalker did. The post-modern left basically has no agenda, beyond hedonism. Rather, it simply seeks out things to blame its own personal failures on. That is why the contemporary left sounds like a bastard troll parody of itself. The divide is between the "gentlemanly" philosophical ideologies and, for lack of a better term "plebbery." While the (philosophical) conservative and (philosophical) radical can disagree, they can communicate and debate with each other. The pleb, on the other hand, is looking for a mixture of "bread and circuses" and a thing to blame his personal failures on. The pleb does not care about internal consistency, but creates a narrative, almost a mythology, about why somebody else is to blame for everything. That is why Marxists are both collectivists and anarchists. The deny the "great man" because highly successful people provide a face for the system that they hate. But, they also refuse to admit that the system actually works, so they are anarchists. The Marxist, or any pleb, does not view a contradiction as a question in need of a answer. Rather, any contradiction should be ignored, as thinking too deeply might overturn their narrative, forcing them to face reality.
At the Sisko and Leonidas quotes, I got chills. I didn't get chills in any of the last three Star Wars movies. That may be indicative of how heroism is conceptualized differently by some creators, and I'd love to hear a video on that. Also, I'd love it if it were somehow possible for you to do a video each week, some of my favorite stuff online.
Spot on! I have been thinking for about 9 years now that writers no longer know how to write good movies. Copy good movies? Yes. Come up with something different but crappy? Yes. Create amazing visuals? Yes. Write a good story? No.
In my opinion the biggest flaw of Disney trilogy is ep8, like honestly it can be called non-canon and no one would care. It didn't bring anything meaningful to the story, plot is closed, only difference between end of ep7 and begin of ep9 is that snoke is dead, beside that nothing much really changed/mattered even "building" of characters from ep8 was mostly neglected (can't blame that, as horrible those were), even the parts that were referred about ep8 were more of the winks than actual continuity. As for Rey ~~palatine~~ Sue, i could take that, in the "LEGENDS" universe there were couple of force users that were able to read memories of touched objects etc, that character from beginning felt like one of the users of such power, the problem is how it was handled, or rather mishandled by narration and story. One of the absolutely worst part was that it was hinted at ep 7 by taking Luke sword, but next hint was somewhere around half of ep 9 (with taking dagger and commenting how terrible it's story is). Another, probably even worst part is that she could take all the knowledge, skills and memories of all the touched objects but it should open up a new gate for narration, like loosing of self identity, emotions, not being able to tell own memories from taken ones, and falling to madness, and possibly to the dark side at it was very poorly shown in ep9. The true problem of her powers is not really how easily she gets them, but instead how little, none in fact, drawback they had. Like there already were those types of characters like Alucard from helsing, or Jean Grey under Phoenix influence from x-men. I don't know if without changes of staff between movies the characters would be actually build and likable but I don't think that "family friendly" Disney would allow to go with path of identity crisis, madness, dark/corrupted version of self etc, (maybe it was the reason of taking out Abrams from ep8, but I highly doubt it). Even if ep 8 was originally planned to dive into this, there were some missing elements from the start in ep7, like Rey could wear gloves as she could feel dizzy from touching things without them, or not knowing the truth about Finn from touching jacket, to name a few just from the nearly opening sequence of the movie. I am not trying to defend Disney trilogy by any means, those are terrible movies, but they aren't by the sheer setting, but rather by mishandling nearly everything possible.
7:45 - Fantastic. 26:31 - Incredibly Fantastic. 34:21 - Brilliant+ It's always great to learn new things of The Craft and What Truly Matters while clearly pointing out why Hyenas Will Never Be Lions. Thank you, man. We, the Ones In Love With Words, are very lucky to have you.
What rian did to luke skywalker is unforgivable. But even without that desecration, TLJ is hands down the worst SW movie ever. In fact its one of the worst cinematic experiences i have ever been through.
Honestly the only thing this movies had going for them were the visuals. The "hyperspace ramming" scene was stunning... For about five seconds before my mind shouted "Hey! This makes no sense in the universe!" The Starkiller Base firing was stunning... Before I've noticed that it literally fired across the galaxy and somehow it was not only faster-than-light in real space, but visible from other worlds in realspace (despite any light having to travel for centuries. Physics, goddamnit!) I mean, were all those planets in a single star system? Death Star at least travelled to its target!
@@wojciechkowalski8061 Haha, isn't the Holdo Maneuver a fun grounds for discussion? I will argue that it didn't actually break any in-universe rules, but it absolutely *WAS* an elephant in the room that we can never again unsee. Remember back in the original SW, our first description of flying through hyperspace was "it ain't like dusting crops, kid"? If one had to ensure that their trajectory was clear of obstacles before jumping to lightspeed, the potential _always_ existed to ask what happens if they hit something during lightspeed, but nobody _actually demonstrated it_ until Ep.8. So, it's not technically a case of "that shouldn't be possible" but instead "why has this never happened before, and why can't it happen again?"
@jweltsch22 Which in turn explicitly raises the question _"how_ is that not a thing?" -- especially in a franchise literally NAMED after its interplanetary conflicts. The only explanation I've heard that makes logical sense is that the Supremacy's hyperspace tracker made it (and it _alone)_ uniquely vulnerable to the Holdo Maneuver. Which would also explain why the bridge crew panicked at the last second -- they'd have already known about this weakness, but have good reason to keep it a secret from their enemies, and simply hope that nobody is desperate enough to try it.
They could have gotten away with having someone else kill/confront the Night King up until they brought Jon back from the dead. That was the moment that the promise was solidified, when they stretched the suspension of disbelief to the max that it could go while staying within the rules of the universe and gave a promise that he wasn't just brought back because he was a fan favorite but because he had a purpose. One that no one else could fill.
Return of the Jedi sets the stage for a super-powerful Luke the next time you see him with a new Jedi order. Yoda himself told him he was the first of a new order, so you expect to see Yoda's prediction fulfilled. Instead, you see him with nowhere near those powers, no Jedi order, and no empathy. The expectations set up by Return of the Jedi are gone. Rather, it seems the new ones only used the prior characters to keep it recognizable as Star Wars with no regard for what came before.
The way that Luke described how the Jedi "failed" reminded me of how France has been memed into history as "the country that surrenders", despite having won more battles than any other nation. You can keep the peace in the galaxy for over a thousand years after defeating your enemies, but only be remembered for how you were betrayed and hunted to near extinction when they returned. And be blamed for it all.
Funny how this vid outlined several points and beyond why, even though you are free to like TLJ, it is ultimately a flawed movie. I am glad this vid actually pointed out the thirty year divide because I had people also use that as an excuse to why Luke changed so much when in reality it is all the more reason you need to EXPLAIN why he had fallen. As mentioned, we've followed Luke's journey from farm boy to Jedi in three films and seen the character he was, so his arc DEMANDS an explanation for why the sudden change. You cannot simply say 'it was thirty years' or even 'a thousand years' and expect people to suddenly accept the bright, hopeful young man who even successfully helped redeem one of the most vile men in the galaxy to suddenly consider murdering his nephew because of a fart in the wind. Hell, it is especially because he redeemed Anakin that it made it all the more questionable why he considered KILLING his nephew as even an option. It would've been different had Ben tricked Luke and simply turned to the dark side on his own (with the help of Snoke, of course), but all we got is for five seconds, Luke considered killing the boy for just a hint of the dark side. Doesn't make sense. But noooooooooo, we are just fanbabies whining about mUh cH1LdH00d.
This should have been Kylo's trilogy. I'm going to construct the starting off point from what we were given: Luke teaches Kylo, and fails. I'm not a good writer, and I sure as heck am no going to write a fanfiction: I just want to establish how Luke could have arrived in a similar position to where he was at the beginning of TFA (yes, I know we see him first in TLJ) while staying true to his character. Luke should have been too believing in Kylo, and unwilling to harshly discipline him if he was wrong, since his teachers never had to do this, as the harsh lessons kind of taught themselves. And he probably wouldn't realize just how much moral character development he got from being a moisture farmer on a hostile planet and fighting in a war, and overestimate the moral progress of his pupil. And further, as Luke himself would never betray family, and he saw that even Vader was unwilling to kill him, he thus would never believe that Kylo would betray Han, Leia, and himself. Maybe Rey could be an adopted child, or fellow student, or something, and her dedication to her training made her (temporarily) more powerful than Kylo, because despite his potential for greater power he didn't train very hard, and this makes him incredibly jealous. Maybe he could strand Rey on a planet and leave her for dead, and attempt to wipe her memories with the force, which causes her to forget almost everything; due to his inexperience, this should leave her mentally impaired, with the cognitive ability of a young child. He returns and claims she was killed in such a manner that her corpse is unrecoverable, perhaps bending the truth rather than lying to avoid detection. Rey, on the other hand, fights through her disability through sheer determination, and picks up a job that makes use of her largely untrained and unidentified force abilities and doesn't exacerbate her disability ... maybe a pilot. Kylo soon betrays Luke, possibly when he is confronted over what happened to his partner Rey. Luke beats him, but lets him leave, and he blames himself for his fall, which is only partly true, rather than accept that Kylo chose to betray his family because of personal failings. He isolates himself along with many of the remaining jedi, believing that the historical jedi involvement in the politics of the Republic was the cause of many of the past failures of the jedi, which is mostly true, and the main cause of Kylo's fall, which is mostly untrue ... make it jealousy, or sloth. Luke's self-imposed isolation turns into exile when he realizes that the remnants of the Empire are hunting him down, as he was a huge war hero and a large part of the establishment of the new political order, and now his protections have been stripped away. To prevent harm coming to those around him, he sends the jedi into fiercely independent and well-defended spaces (Mon Cala, Mandalore, Hirrun, etc.) and hides himself away in ancient sith ruins (maybe on Yavin 4), hoping to confront Kylo or the few jedi who followed him as they search for power. Maybe he knows this location is compromised since a holocron with it's location was stolen when Kylo left the temple. Rey and company could shadow Kylo to the temple and discover Luke, who again beats Kylo, but his hesitation allows Kylo to escape, possibly leading to the death of one of Rey's close friends, which she blames Luke for. The new government is too busy with rebuilding the core to care about all the shenanigans the remnants of the Empire under Kylo and Snoke are doing. They're more concerned with hardline Imperials trying to take back the core. That, and they are very small ... most systems want to remain independent, as the last galaxy-wide government became a tyrannical oppressive regime, book-ended by two brutal civil wars ... seems pretty reasonable. This, however, leaves planets open to Kylo and Snoke's relatively small forces that maybe are sector-sized. This, and the populace has resigned itself to violence after a separatist movement's war, a tyrannical government's military oppression, a violent and bloody rebellion, and the subsequent infighting and power grabs (not just by former Imperials) upon the disintegration of the Empire. Oh, and the core systems get a ton of money by selling arms to both sides, and have no real motivation to protect other systems outside of those that supply them with raw resources. They also fear separatist backlash if they attempt to send military aid to stabilize regions and oppose the First Order and other Imperial remnant factions ... that war's probably still fresh in everyone's minds in the core despite it happening a while ago, since the Empire would have really played the angle that they ended the Separatist war in their propaganda. And ... yeah, that puts the pieces near where they are. Kylo finds a sponsor in the reformed remnants of the Empire and finds someone who has some force powers and knowledge. It'd be cool if they Snoke was a deformed experiment made by Palpatine as he explored Sith alchemy (he left him to die and thought him dead) and while he would not be that powerful directly, he would have very dangerous knowledge that even Palpatine didn't want to use (bioweapons, or something like that which would severely harm the galaxy he wanted to rule) and some inside knowledge, including caches of weapons and ships, gleaned from computer archives Palpatine left behind. (Cool thought ... what if his plan was to promote cheap labor from lobotomizing people? Once the galaxy was reliant on their labor, flip a kill switch in them all and watch as the economy disintegrates. Makes re-conquering a lot easier, and builds on the reconditioning plot point made in TFA) Rey, meanwhile, goes undiscovered by the new jedi order since they largely concentrate their recruiting efforts in a few key systems and are small in number. She joins a mercenary band working for governments as protection, which often comes into contact with First Order troops. End the series on Luke's sacrifice and Kylo's death. Luke finally overcomes his aversion to hurting Kylo and sacrifices himself to kill him. Perhaps this redeems Luke in Rey's eyes and makes her realize she was wrong about him being a coward, and perhaps also realize she was too much of a firebrand herself. Denouement: Rey, being one of the few survivors, goes before the jedi council and senate and shares his story with them, which galvanizes them into action. Ackbar should also sacrifice himself, and his death should lead the Mon Calamari to action, possibly having them join the new central government. Finn could testify before the ruling body about the atrocities committed by the First Order and the truth about their plan to undermine the economy of the core systems so they could conquer them, which causes much of the core to realize that refusing to aid those in need when they call for aid, even military aid, is as wrong as forcing people to stay in the Republic was. Addendum: effort should be made to show that the Empire, while brutal, was arguably justified in its approach to instability outside of the core. Perhaps, even the Imperial remnant within the Core would stand down or join the fight against the Rim Imperial remnant factions, including the First Order once they realized that their resistance to the new government was only fomenting disorder within the Core and distracting them from the rampant disorder in the Rim regions, which should run counter to their morals. I also think the massive corruption of the Empire above and beyond that of even the Republic should lead all sides to recognize that a highly centralized galactic government is a bad idea. Tl;Dr The galaxy should be a shambles, the new government and jedi should be afraid to face off against the First Order for interesting political reasons, Kylo should die by Luke's hand, and Luke and Ackbar should sacrifice themselves, which pushes the fiercely independent systems and new government to band together to defeat most of the Imperial remnant.
My conclusion has always been that they just didn’t know how to explain all the changes and just tried to make a movie around all the holes in the story.
I always thought it was weird that Luke wasn't the optimistic one with the idea of "Oh I need to figure out a way to redeem Ben" & Rey was the one that was all "We need to kill Kylo! He killed Han & crippled my best friend!" Then the ark of the Movie was that Rey needed to find the good (Light) in all people & how to deal with it.
The problem with the Disney Trilogy is that its creators try to repeat a success of its precedessor(s) without understanding of the mechanisms. Like somebody learning to paint a human figure, copying an artist - and trying to best them - without understanding of the human anatomy and making the figure disfigured. Another problem is trying to make Star Wars "contemporary" and "actual", instead of what they always were - universal. People around the globe do not understand - or frankly do not care - about the first world problems of Americans. Luke was a hero you could identify with no matter who you were, you learned along him. Rey? We are skipping the learning, even the supposed actual learning happens in-between the films, but the main point is - she is just unlikable. She doesn't change at all, doesn't learn and evolve character-wise. She always knows better and - what is important - there is not consequences for her missteps, it's always somebody else who pays for her arrogance and in the end she takes the Skywalker name - as if proving that even at being Skywalker she's better than Skywalker... What message exactly is that?
That last line (the one Luke told Rey) legit made me say "F-U" at the movie at least once because it came from Luke's mouth; it's like the writers didn't realize who was the man who trained Darth Vader in the first place and thought it was ok for Luke to insult Old Man Ben Kenobi aka his Old Master and I would say a beloved friend, even if his interactions are somewhat more of a father and son nature or tutor and apprentice. Like it bloody betrays the character of Luke and I don't get how people thought he redeemed himself in that scene. There could have been a redemption had he survived, but because he died...it just made it more painful knowing that his first step towards redemption was his first step into his grave...TLJ blows a large chunk of Donkey Sausage, pardon my French. I think this reasoning you explained for why TLJ felt like a betrayal is the same reason why I don't like Blade Runner 2049: the film has a subversive twist in the middle of the second act or close to the beginning of the third act, and it just felt like I wasted my time watching this movie. Like I get Deckard was the protagonist of the previous film, but in this one, his only purpose is a means to find his child, and though we think K is the most likely person to be the child, it turns out it wasn't the case, and I just end up feeling like the Automaton learning that it was all for naught. Like it's well-made, but it makes me think Ridley Scott or whoever wrote that film is just a hack that wanted to ruin his previous works by making subpar sequels that supposedly expand the lore, but like they mostly serve to annoy audiences.
I am impressed by your ability to gather credible examples from various movies and shows. Watching all those movies and tv shows must take a huge amount of time.
To properly deconstruct something, you must first understand what makes it work in the first place. You have to have an appreciation for it, not disdain.
The ability to put into words feelings that others couldn't express is the true hallmark of a great writer. Thank you very much for this video essay; I could feel all the pieces clicking into place as you spoke. It feels good to finally understand what the writers got wrong.
I've suspected for a while now that while studios and writers may know "what audiences want" it's only on a superficial level and they don't know why we want these things. TLJ tried "hope for the hopeless" but it was hollow and bastardized as the Resistance continued to fail. Holdo should have inspired hope in her people, but for whatever reason didn't explain her plans which left them confused and scared enough that people were trying to run away and even her own bridge crew turned on her. Then the film didn't portray this as a sensible response, but that they were being foolish and should have trusted her for....reasons. Then the film keeps insisting that the Resistance is the hope of the galaxy...as they fail and cower on a planet calling for help. They didn't scatter to regroup. The only bit of hope to be given was when Finn was ready to sacrifice himself to give everyone time, which could have inspired the failing Resistance. But then suddenly Rose stopping him and telling him they need to "save what they love" which was what he was doing, but for some reason Finn couldn't be the hero, but Rose was for...damning everyone. We see it in Marvel these days too. They see nerds arguing who the strongest superheroes are (an exercise in logic, memory, and creativity) and assume this means the most powerful heroes are what people want, but again not knowing why. So we get Captain Marvel propped up as The Most Powerful Hero Ever and are expected to love her for it. And when we don't because they don't know why we like certain things, they get angry and blame us for not "watching movies right".
So, the stories that are masterpieces of open storytelling and leave you thinking and questioning things are just manipulative garbage just like skinner (loot) boxes. Those writers are just exploiting our need to see things through. What a surprise that this modern storytelling device, the open end, is also garbage, just like most modern art.
One lesson I learned from my friends is this: if your audience is composed of 10 people and only one is complaining, then the story is not of his taste If your audience is composed of 10 people, and 7 of them are complaining, then, your story is wrong The audience is never a problem
If the movie is "wrong", you did not watch it wrong. The makers made it wrong. You as the audience have no influence over a movie. You are unable to "watch" movies wrong. You can only watch them anyways.
As always, a great video. Rian Johnson DID kill Star Wars good. The Last Jedi is the gift that keeps on giving.
I hate it when defenders of TLJ tell those who hate TLJ "you had too much expectations for the movie". DUH of course we expect the best for a SW movie!! At the very least one where it respects the rules and lore of its own universe!! TLJ respected none of that.
@@treasurecave431 Was that from left-wingers who defend the film or from "enlightened centrists" who dishonestly capitulate to the left who support such shoehorned politics and bad writing?
At this point, the recent movies, along with Marvel's recent movies, are just pure entertainment for consumption by normies that don't care on how bad the writing and culture-less those are.
Continuity is what creates a franchise. Rules in a fictional universe is what makes it all worth it to continue even watching. In fact you can actually make a extremely mediocre films but as long the universe is interesting enough it can always be salvaged as long as you dont destroy the universe.
Personally, I see the sequels as Abrams crippling the franchise and Johnson coming in to put it down and then Abrams freaks out and tries desperately to resuscitate it
Louis XIV (aka 1685Violin) This is completely wrong. PLENTY of “Left Wing” ppl hated this movie. Also, Marvel is the best thing smoking. Entertaining and follows the comics for the most part. Are they perfect? Nope. Are they good? Yep.
Expecting chocolate and getting caramel, is a subversion of expectations.
Expecting chocolate and getting poop is a betrayal of expectations.
To subvert expectations properly, you need to understand what your audience wants and likes.
@Tommaso Stefanelli * *chugs some Hearty Punch, to carry on even through the worst of times* *
Yes, exactly. To deconstruct something, you have to know how it works, and how the pieces connect. Because there’s a difference between carefully taking something apart to examine it for potential flaws or issues with the working parts, and smashing something on the ground, stomping on the pieces, and saying “I MADE IT BETTER!!”
@@Adorni Sure but deconstruction is fine if one is willing to reconstruct it better or at least appreciate what you've deconstructed as it is. but the media, academia & a hugely powerful portion of the tech companies we rely on for our info & communication are infiltrated bt people who'd rather just deconstruct everything reconstructing what can back up their bid for utopian (grab for power) & leaving what's left (often what brings people together & is a danger to them) scattered in pieced that any attempt to investigate let alone reconstruct just labels you an enemy.
Very little is unintentional (excuse the tin foil hat but you keep watching & see)
Everything is OK. You just eat poop in a wrong way. xD
Red wedding is subverting expectations done right.
Battle of Winterfell and the nuke of King’s Landing are subverting expectations done wrong
The reason the argument "Its fiction so why do rules matter" is so shit because if they didn't matter then I can easily ask these questions.
Rey needs to destroy Starkiller base. Why doesn't she just teleport it to the sun?
"She can't do that."
Why can't she, its fiction. Rey wants to see her parents again, why doesn't she just summon them to her house or teleport to them?
"She doesn't have the ability to teleport objects."
Again, its fiction so she can do whatever she wants so why doesn't she just do what she wants?
This is why rules are important for a series, because the character can't just do what they want so there is tension, stakes and drama. Rey needs to destroy Starkiller base, she can't just will it out of existence so she actually needs to work hard in order to infiltrate it and make it self destruct. That sounds way more interesting than her teleporting it to the sun in an instant. Rey wants to see her parents, she can't just bring them to her or go to them because she lacks the power and resources so her only hope is to wait for them to come back. Interesting drama that makes you feel for the character. Without rules, there is literally no reason why every fictional character doesn't get everything they have always wanted and if they did do that, then the story wouldn't be interesting at all. What situation catches your interest the most, a person who was born rich or someone who worked their hands to the bones to get rich? What life story would you prefer? I imagine almost everyone would prefer the latter because struggles and striving and working past obstacles is something that interests people and the reason people have to struggle and strive and work is because we can't do everything and there are rules in place that keep us from doing that. If it entertains us in real life to have rules and limits and struggles then why wouldn't it entertain us in fiction? This argument is purely a lazy attempt to dodge valid criticism for the new Trilogy. Out of the countless issues it has, one thing I really despise is the cheapening of the Force to just being magic that can do anything. Use to just be sensing people, telekensis, electrokensis. It essentially seemed like fancy psychic powers but now its to a point where people are surviving space ship explosions and Superman flying to safety, to creating psychic links from planets away as well as being able to teleport matter instantly through this link to even reviving the dead. Not only are these additions to the Force game breaking as How it Should Have Ended showcases in their video of Rise of Skywalker, it also devalues the past characters because they never tried any of this before. Why do Jedi's use space crafts? Just use the Force to fly like Leia. Why did Anakin's mom die, he could bring her back to life with the Force and prevent Padame from dying with the Force as well, he literally had no reason to turn into Darth Vader since there are Force Abilities that can bring back the dead and heal the injured so this laziness and lack of thought hurts previous plots too. Darth Vader was one of the strongest Force users and apparently he lacked the ability to heal his lungs so he could exist outside the suit and Luke never learned any healing abilities in his movies but Rey with just a few years of training can heal fatal wounds and Kylo can bring back the dead. Luke and Vader must be chumps....or maybe the writers suck at their jobs and couldn't use their imaginations to make a more intelligent way to create the situations they want so the Force is just a plot device that does whatever the writer wants instead of being a powerful but limited cosmic thing that existed in the Starwars universe. Good stories need rules, some of the best stories I can think of have pretty dead set rules like Death Note and Full Metal Alchemist. Rules create drama and stakes and let us know what a character can or can not do and with rules, when you have a character that can reasonably break the rules its a shocking but awesome twist. Stop acting like fiction can just do anything, you know its not true, you would complain about another series having bullshit and are only defending the Sequels because you either like that its pandering to your politics, like that its doing your ship, are ignorant and aren't aware of what people are actually mad about or a corporate shill who just wants Papa Disney to notice them for defending them.
How true your comment is. I was arguing with one of TLJ defenders who after a few exchanges just said "its just a movie, they can do whatever they wanted with it". So why doesnt indiana jones just come swooping out of nowhere? Or why doesnt thanos snap himself into the SW universe??
That it's too much text for *"Without rules there is no tension, and without tension there is not a single emotion in watching the movie/series/playing-the-game/etc. besides 'that was fun, haha'. "*
I agree. In fact, what characters _can not do_ is way more important and interesting for a story. Limitations create conflict, and conflict creates drama, yada yada.
I like how every single point defending TLJ can be countered with little thought put to it.
@@juanrodriguez9971 I have a habit of typing a bit too much I'll admit. I think of a good comment, reply or argument and then more words flood into my head when I feel like I could explain it better or that it won't make sense without the rest of a sentence. I did feel like I was dragging on.
@@DonVigaDeFierro That is why characters like Zuko are just amazing, he can't return to his home, he can't capture the avatar, and he can't find his future, and is when the limitations are overpassed when the character becomes a much more better character.
"Heroism is not about being perfect or always winning but breathing hope into the hopeless." This is why Mumen Rider vs Deep Sea King fight from One Punch Man is one of the best things ever put to film. Dude knew he was going to lose - knew he was going to die - but also knew that winning the fight wasn't the point. All he could hope for was to delay until hopefully someone who COULD win would show up, but at the same time he gave hope to the hopeless.
And that is one of the defining characteristics of a hero. They jump in and do what needs to be done, damn the consequences.
Sad that we have to refer to chinese cartoons to discuss something as archetypal as heroism.
@@Judasdfg Japanese, its an anime. XD
@@Judasdfg bruh... one punch man beats out most of he western greats when it comes to heroism. it's honestly not a fair comparison unless you're comparing it to something like spiderman.
Mumen Rider is the MVP. The random dude in a bike, with no superpowers, willing to die fighting the cruel and amoral cosmos even if he has no chance of winning... because that's what heroes do.
SJWs think that heroes are power fantasies like Captain Karen or Rey Rey Binks, and that being heroic is being always in the right and always unbeatable... That's why they fail.
@@Judasdfg Dude, heroism is universal. It's a trope that trascends the culture barriers.
"You didn't complain when Luke Skywalker did it!"
You mean when Luke lost his family? Got his ass kicked by Tuslen Raiders? Lost his mentor?
You mean when Luke got his ass kicked by a wampa, and nearly froze to death? When he straight up LOST to Vader, and had his hand cut off, consequently losing his lightsaber?
When Luke was being mercilessly tortured by Palpatine? Failed to save his father after bringing him back to the light?
You're right. We didn't complain.
Now when did ANYTHING LIKE THAT happen to Rey?
"B-but, Rey got tortured by Emo Ren!!!"
@@MrTurok999 then immediately succeeding in forcing him off her mind lmao
I didn’t complain because I have a serious bias against Rey 😂
The Original Trilogy := The hero's journey of Luke Skywalker
The Prequel Trilogy := The story hero's journey and eventual fall of Anakin Skywalker along with the fall of The Republic
The Disney Sequel Trilogy := A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. (as Shakespeare would say...)
In the other timeline, Luke Skywalker succeeded in rebuilding the Jedi Order in time for a metaphorical storm to hit that had been brewing (noticed by few because of other more imminent crises) since shortly after the events of _Phantom Menace._ A new generation of heroes under Luke's tutelage came into their own, and together with the older generation they helped the New Republic and Imperial Remnant together to prevail in the darkest hour, with redemption for the culture of the extragalactic invaders.
Any major plot twist should be foreshadowed in a way that after the plot twist, the author can show evidence in the story that it was coming. Subverting expectations means hiding the evidence or obscuring it with decoys not omitting it. Then the plot twist evolves into a duel between the author and the audience. The author wins the duel, if the audience has the urge to collectively facepalm itself for not seeing the signs. The author will loose the duel (and the surprise element of the story), if the audience finds out about the hidden evidence before the plot twist occurs. Authors prioritizing the protection of the surprise element are obviously tempted to scale back on the evidence to the point of leaving none at all.
Number Muncher this is why many twist villains haven’t been working lately in my opinion. Yes. Even Hans from Frozen.
Let's put it this way: if a plot twist is a battle between the author and the audience, then hiding the clues is rigging the match in the author's favor and the audience feels cheated.
But if the clues are too obvious, it feels like the author let you win, and it's unsatisfying too.
@@alyssakays367 Yeah Hans was working against his end goals in the beginning of the movie.
Brandon Sanderson is a master of this in his original mistborn trilogy. Once the twist happened, you could look back and see all the clues.
Another good example is assasination classroom. One of the biggest twists is shown insanely early compared to when it drops on us.
Or tower of god, filled with absolute stunners, but enough info is peppered throughout that it never feels like a twist, even when it's a bombshell on the level of his powers, or his parents.
The real Luke Skywalker would've had a heart-to-heart with any angsty student of his - especially if that student was his own nephew. He would've given Ben a hug, and told him that "dark thoughts are normal, even for me, but they shouldn't define you". He'd have told Han and Leia, and they could've helped him together.
Luke Skywalker would not have contemplated murdering a kid in his sleep, no matter what. That's not who he is.
You're ignoring a very important factor: People change. And for Luke, there were thirty years to do that. The reason his appearance is so jarring is that we are not giving any insight into the why. We're seeing the heroic, idealistic Luke when we last leave him. And when we return we are told that everything we believed to know is wrong. We see a cynic fallen Jedi and are not even allowed to wonder how that could be, because we are only supposed to look at the shiny new "improved(TM)" toys and turning to familiarity first makes us sexist, racist, homophobic bigots.
@@Runenschuppe Even after 30 years, i'm sceptical that Luke would've changed so much that he'd be willing to murder his own nephew in cold blood just for having "dark thoughts".
You are right, though... it's not _impossible_ that Luke changed enough to do this over the years, because of his lived experiences; to me, it's just highly _improbable,_ given the sort of person that Luke is (i.e. a caring, optimistic person - and a Jedi). We're just given no reason whatsoever for this character change, so it feels extremely jarring. It's a betrayal specifically because we didn't see it coming.
@@Grymbaldknight It's *extremely* improbable considering that this is the same Luke who spared Darth Vader in order to turn away from his own dark future while also saving this same murderer who killed one of his mentors just because he sensed a glimmer of hope for him. Luke went through all of that in the middle of a war and that's what defined his character. It's not impossible, but I find it ectremely hard to believe that Luke would change SO much in that time. Turning into a hermit and leaving everyone alone. Going so far as to contemplate talking the life of a misguided young man who is much like himself back in the day. It doesn't add up.
It's funny that the one who gave Kylo the most hope for change was Han, decades later. Han thought to do it, but Luke didn't.
This might be cliche for me to say, but legends was definitely better to Luke's character.
"Forget the past. Slander it if you have to."
Aaaand there you have the objective: "The first battleground is to rewrite history... Take away the heritage of a people and they are easily persuaded." - Karl Marx
Smallpotato1965 They would have to erase the whole internet in order to do that. So f**k them
@@xlrouge Not as difficult as you'd think, considering most people use Google as a gateway to the internet, and we all know how ridiculous RUclips has been about DMCA take downs and demonetization, not to mention the censorship Google practices with it's search engine; if you've ever gone to Bing, because Google wouldn't show you what you wanted ;) then you know that Google censors it's results.
@@xlrouge Controling information is much harder now that we have to internet but China and North Korea manage pretty well.
I see your Karl Marx, and I raise you one Niccolo Machiavelli: the wise Prince, when conquering a people, allows them to keep their own customs and traditions; the wise Prince is seen as a Liberator, rather than a Conqueror.
@@TheNthMouse You mix both and its clear that one would have to destroy the most essential components of the heritage while keeping the same appeareance in order to dupe most fools.
We are definitely watching movie wrong. Studios expect us to just buy the ticked and then play Candy Crush for the entire runtime.
In the same theaters that tell you to please turn off your phone first?
@@Stratelier We are just subverting their expectations you see.
OT: A good story told well.
Prequels: A good story told poorly.
Sequels: A bad story told abominably.
Revenge of the Sith was good though.
@@vetarlittorf1807 - Yeah, there was a marked improvement in Ep III when it comes to the prequels.
mariokarter13 Oh my gosh! I never thought of it that way but it's so true!
yeah, the prequel dialogue is pretty awful but the story is great
Does anyone else like the Phantom Menace? Like unironically likes it? I feel like the only Prequel film I'm not a big fan of is aotc.
Luke was not a GarrySue. He was ruled by fear throughout the original trilogy, his fatal flaw, painting EVERY decision he made. Yoda reads him like a book and spells it out for us and him clearly. But Ray is FEARLESS and why shouldn't she be? She was stronger than all her opponents from the start. No internal or external struggle. MarySue 100%.
No, Luke was ruled by impatience, not fear. This is stated explicitly in his first encounter with Yoda. He tended to charge recklessly into situations without planning, and then he had to fear for his own and others lives as a result.
It was Anakin who was driven by fear-the fear of powerlessness. This was explicitly stated in TPM. It eventually led him down the dark side path and its promise of quick power, only to trap him into being the Emperor's pawn.
@@davidh.4944 Impatience stems from the fear of staying in one place too long. Luke feared he would end up a simple farmer like his uncle Ben and craved excitement and adventure. He couldn't he sit down for one meal with Yoda before freaking out.
@@Jester2415 Either way. Fear or impatience, we see him struggling with those aspects in Episode 4 and 5 which causes him great harm both psychologically and physically. Return of the Jedi sees him overcoming those problems. He faces his father with love, patience, and understanding. He comes to grip with who he is, and what his father was when he sees Vader's mechanical hand. There is actual growth here. Actual conflict. Him choosing to not kill Vader causes him intense pain at the hands of the Emperor. Where was Rey's struggle?
@@hohhoch3617
"Where was Rey's struggle?" Tortured by Kylo Ren in FA, and then tortured A LOT by Snoke in TLJ.
People seems to forget that he lost the fight against Vader in episode 5. If he won, there wouldn’t be the classic “I AM YOUR FATHER” scene.
Haven’t seen the _Rise of Palpatine_ yet but it sounds hilarious.
I just watched the Longman's critique of it (it certainly was hilarious).
It's not. You will either cry or puke or both.
Ditto my friend
Bokrug the Water Serpent
You’d need more energy to make the clones than to make some sort of space soy to feed the troops directly. But yeah, fuck Disney.
Coming after The Last Jedi, which was one of the best things to come out of Star Wars, Rise of Skywalker was complete and utter garbage.
Sadly you can make all the rational assessments of these movies and their "story telling" until you're blue in the face, but these ideologues can't understand anything past superficial representation. They don't care about a well rounded, meaningful character arc just so long as, in their mind, someone feels important about their decisions.
Absolutely, but I don't make these videos in hopes of convincing the NPCs. I know that's not going to happen lol. I make these to explore exactly why the NPCs are wrong.
@@LiteratureDevil Kinda like why I bother with the pointlessly idiotic arguments such people make. Though I will note, that for the most part I try to either inform or reach an understanding, if not with the people whom I'm arguing with, the people who just happen to be passing by. Cause I've seen some serious levels of stupid these people tend to show, have you seen a video called "The Last Jedi is Amazing and you are all insane" That guy literally makes no actual points, he just constantly talks about how good the movie is and how stupid and wrong the people who dislike it are. Which I think is one of the most inane and nonsensical videos I've seen on the matter. Sure there's nothing wrong with liking the movie, but you need to use logic when trying to argue against others your point. Either way, thanks for this, you're a sound voice of reason that I always can find some solace in (and it does relive my headache quite a bit from this who issue).
Honestly, you can say the exact same thing about people who dislike TLJ, RoS, the prequel trillogy, or any other story.
And for the record, the Last Jedi was a fuck up.
@Grapthar's Hebrew Hammer Didn't bother to pick up the name of idiot who made the video. Merely saw the EFAP video on it, and left a reply to the video in question basically telling the guy that he is a complete imbecile. I was pretty much on the same boat as everyone on the EFAP, wondering just how stupid and nonsensical someone can be. I only recently found that video, as well as EFAP itself, enjoy their talks. I've long been subscribed to Shadiversity, which is how I heard of them, though I didn't actually start watching them until I watched Mauler's unbridled rage videos on the new Star Wars trilogy.
@Grapthar's Hebrew Hammer Shad's good, he's a massive nerd (like most of us), and he's also quite well read on things, mostly medieval stuff, but he also pays a lot of attention to sci-fi and even anime to a smaller extent. Also he's now a published author, as well as a sort of adviser and consultant for Brandon Sanderson when it comes to things medieval and pop culture.
Amen to every single point here.
A movie written for children can be FAR better than a movie written for adults if the adult movie has terrible plot points and/or character arcs.
The idea that "Luke Skywalker, savior of the universe" can become "Luke Skywalker, blue-milk-drinking emo hermit" because "had a bad dream one time, so I tried to kill my nephew, LOL" is so exponentially bad that it killed a multi-billion-dollar franchise within 5 years.
@Sench
just because it's harder to write the story, doesn't mean it would be a "good" story. In the terms of adult perception. Most adults aren't going to go binge Paw Patrol because it lacks any interesting story developments or nuance to keep them interested. My niece loves it, but she's like 5. I'm 30 and I can't stand it.
5 years? It was less than that! Disney made bank with Star Wars until _The Last Jedi_ came out. Only SIX MONTHS later, _Solo_ bombed.
The worst part is that TLJ had some semi-good elements to it, my favorite is the system of characters' wants, needs and how they affect each other. The problem usually comes when people are trying to be cooks (instead of chefs), and use things like that god-awful ABCBA structure, even when it doesn't fit. The hero's journey is also insanely vague and is only usable as a guideline. There were many good and possible ways to subvert SW. For instance:
**1. The First Order is fragmented** I mean, collateral damage on a planetary scale should be grounds for some divide. Wouldn't it be cool if we learned that some people joined The First Order because The Empire did manage to bring "peace" and push back organized crime in most parts of the galaxy during its rule, and that it wasn't evil from top to bottom, with lots of their soldiers being regular people, who knew little of Papa Palpatine and friends' misdeeds.
Those people might get disappointed with a shady guy in a bathrobe, an emotionally unstable teenager, a caricature ginger nazi and chrome Briene leading them.
And along with that, why not add that the rebels did knowingly employ serial killers and other evil people, simply because they were too good at their job and the rebellion was in no position to turn them down.
**2.Muh-Rey-Sue is the Mary Sue, but Snoke is The Author** People consider Rey to be a weak character because her powers were given, not earned. Why not roll with it? What if she's an experiment of Big Snoke and when it comes to a final confrontation, he simply does a "Would you kindly?" and turns the ultimate Mary Sue against her friends. Top fucking kek.
**3. The new rebellion is lead by former First Order soldiers and the remnants of the Resistance** Couple it with previous points to get some tension going between them.
I'd say Star Wars was killed the moment the Disney contract was signed.
Disney had several cartoons that were much better at continuity. Gargoyles, for one. More recently, TRON: Uprising - that was a very solid use of the hero of another story who failed, and is now the mentor for the hero.
Remember when *Jedi Master* Luke Skywalker walked into Jabba's palace and single-handedly broke out his friends and killed Jabba without any complications?
_yeah, me neither_
Remember how in the first movie we see the Jedi Mind Trick and after training with two masters and in the third movie Luke now can do it?
Remember how Rey did it in the first movie on a whim after learning the Force was real?
But nah, nah man. Rey isn't a Mary Sue and is the same skill level as Luke, no difference at all...
Remember how Luke defeated the Rancor without using his lightsaber or the force? I do.
@@emberfist8347 He IS no dumbass, after all. That doesn't put him anywhere near to Gary-Stu-Teritory.
Blake Tyson Yeah. Remember how he did it by exploiting the environment and paying close attention to his surroundings, and still almost got bit in half and crushed in the Rancor’s grip? Rather than just saying “The Force” and yeeting the Rancor?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
@@emberfist8347 - I'm not sure he didn't use the force. He put the stone exactly where he wanted after all. Sort of like what he did with his X-wing's proton torpedoes in A New Hope.
Whenever someone says to me, if Rey is a Mary Sue, then so its Luke and Anakin. And i'm just sexist for hating Rey i have this 2 replies:
"Even if they were a Mary Sue as well(and they weren't) but even assuming you are right, two wrongs doesn't make a right. Just because they were a mary sue doesn't mean you have to be a bad writer with the new character and make him/her a Mary Sue as well. It just mean you didn't learn from the mistakes done before.
And 2, saying Rey is a mary sue its not attacking women. its not an attack on feminism. if anything its attack on males. Because calling a character a Mary Sue, it's actually an attack on bad writing, and since the writers for all 3 movies were male, then the attack is on male writers. So your argument for calling me sexist is invalid.
Although since you are already attacking and insulting me, making assumptions on my character because i dare criticize a character within a movie franchise, then you obviously don't care about logic."
Anyways, awesome video. Whenever i get into an argument with an SJW defending the sequels i come over to watch your videos again man. it's like a cleansing bath after getting dirt all over me.
Relax and don't argue with those guys mate, they're mentally ill. Ignore, ridicule, move on.
Also the argument the actor of Rey gave where she was like "The Term is sexist, its a woman's name" is idiotic. For one thing, male characters can be Mary Sues as well, despite the female name its a universal term. Besides that, the reason its a female name to begin with is because a female character started the trend by parodying such characters. Mary Sue is a fan fic character from a Star Trek magazine that literally parodies other similar fan fics that have characters that are abnormally talented and loved and that's where the term comes from. The character could have been called Johnny Dick Cheese and we'd still be here calling Rey a Johnny Dick Cheese.
People also seem confused why female characters seem to get the most flak. The simple fact being is they get WAAAY too much undeserved protection. Call Batman a Mary Sue and no one but fans give a shit and they'd only give a small little argument about it. Call Luke Skywalker a Mary Sue and at least in the past before this controversy started, the same thing would occur, no one would care except fans who still wouldn't take it as an attack on them. But you call Rey a Mary Sue, or Captain Marvel or whatever and somehow this means you hate every women ever. Criticizing this one fictional woman means you hate every woman, real or fictional. It then leads to a long controversy where everyone discusses if this is a sign that society is misogynistic because someone said they didn't like Rey. This never happens for a male character, no one ever goes this far to protect a male character and this is why female Mary Sues are worse. They are treated as sacred and immune to criticism. You must 100% like them or you are a horrible person. Its ironically the fault of the defenders that she is worse than a similarily written male character because there extreme amount of care makes the issue worse. If people acted the same as they would for a similar complaint of Batman, people would have forgotten this by now but they can't let it go so the complaints will keep coming.
Even when Ray was fresh and new I bought that comparisons to Luke Skywalker and make them direct Anakin in the prequel trilogy pre the Clone Wars animated spin-offs giving him much-needed room to grow flesh out 'n develop
When kid Anakin showed up with his amazing technical skills piloting ability and gosh gee willikers attitude and ignorant saving of the day people hate the s*** out of him. Doing that all again but slightly older Daisy Ridley but oddly enough with the less community support and more attempt to make everybody love the character looks like they combined the worst parts of Jar Jar with none of the mitigating parts. Obi-Wan hates jar jar through most of it and he ends up redeeming himself by acting as a bridge between people who we would likely write off
Eventually the series deviates by making it all about Rey in the force awakens at the end making everyone else's Journey or development irrelevant unless you Count Olaf look we're going to tease Finn & Poe might actually be lovers. Ignoring the fact that I really hate it po just suddenly coming back to life halfway through the film
Last Jedi did redeem that character for me but unfortunately it had to throw a lot else under the bus because of it. And it firmly divides me between holdo was made out of pure conflict ball orpo was a fuckboy because he seemed eager to take offense and undermine everybody trying to ask him to be reasonable.
@empty shogun Anakin also lost his other body parts due to his arrogance CHARACTER FLAWS which rey lacks
That's such an easy argument to defeat. Luke and Anakin both had training, with Anakin having the benefit of actual Jedi Academy training. Young Anakin...for the most part didn't do anything TO outstanding since he's been piloting pod racers for a while and was unconsciously using the force to assist. Admittedly that should not have translated over to piloting a fighter but at least its SOMETHING. Luke on the other hand expressly had training in fighters, he piloted a sky hopper through dangerous conditions while training to join the rebellion. Rey...? Studied...via...the headset she had at the start of TFA? Piloted a giant Popsicle?
Luke had some training under Obi-Wan and still struggled to pull his lightsaber out of the ice in the SECOND movie, while Anakin didn't start using the force until the same movie, but after literally years of training. Rey is using complex force powers that take years of training by the end of the first movie and going head to head with a Sith who has had saber training from TWO separate masters, one Jedi one Sith, with zero experience or training in lightsaber fighting. Both Luke and Anakin, in comparison, had some training under one of the greatest masters in Lukes case and years of saber training in Anakins case and BOTH lost to stronger opponents in the second movie and suffered for it. Rey...never loses. To anyone. Ever. At anything.
The message of the Last Jedi is simple: Everything the previous heroes did only added to the problems of the universe.
So cynical.
At least that means that Rey is a complete failure too.
coming from hollywood, is it any surprise? They despise everything we've ever done or created as a culture.
The prequels showed how the heroes failed at preventing the Empire, Obi Wan failing as a teacher, the jedi council as guardians of peace, the Republic as a stable and fair governement. The trilogy was about the new generation learning and making a new world for themselves. Anakin (although the acting might not have been great) was the key. The Chosen One's prophecy makes sense in the long run, as he defeated Palpatine, something he could have done in the prequels but couldn't because of his own mistakes (helping in the death of Mace Windu). What Anakin/Vader got was the same cycle than LD's version of Luke cycle, where he's not the mentor, but the antagonist. Luke should have learned from it, and yet does the same mistake AND ALSO does it even worse than before. Failure of his father didn't teach him jack crap.
This is my reason I hated Luke's story in the sequels originally. LD and others explained to me what I felt in a more logical way.
What universe? More like just a handful of anonymous systems that was fought over nothing and did nothing to change the unestablished status quo of the galaxy after ROTJ.
If these movies have a message its that no matter how bad your idea is as long you have the clout in Hollywood you can get away with anything.
So in a nutshell, The Last Jedi COULD'VE BEEN GOOD with all the contraversial things in it. It's just that Rian Johnson never executed it right.
As the inhumanly human Rick Sanchez once said, "There's no such thing as a bad idea Morty. There's just poor execution."
Fall of Skywalker was a good romcom
And this is why James Mangold's Logan makes an infinitely better last Jedi.. than The Last Jedi.
As is Tron Legacy. Kevin Flynn didn't abandon anyone he just had some really bad luck.
@@emberfist8347 good call
@@emberfist8347 I liked that movie.
They could have just made Luke into Yoda. He could even have thought that he failed Ben by starting his training at too old an age, and said that Rey was too old to train. Derivative, but it would make sense.
As himself was older than Rey when he started, no, it doesn't. He could blame himself that he loved Kylo too much and didn't notice his turn.
In my opinion, Bilbo completed his circle when he stole the Arkenstone from the Lonely Mountain treasure, gave it to the Bard and Thranduil AND then came back to Thorin:
1. He was employed by the dwarves as the burglar - and he stole the most valuable artifact in the Erebor not for the dwarves, but from them
2. Before that event Bilbo has two struggling parts of personality - everybody remembers his calm and fearful 'Baggins nature', but he had also some recklessness and thrill for adventure of Tooks (e.g. during his first adventure in the Wild, he got in trouble because of this, when he was trying to stole something from the trolls instead of informing dwarves about them) - when he gave the Arkenstone to the elves and men, he did something that required great courage of the Tooks, but he did that to protect the peace - so it was the way of the Baggins
3. His return to Thorin, after he gave his treasure to his opponents, shows great loyalty and that Bilbo learnt to value it more than his life.
I am always struck by your ability to rewrite the focus of your critique in a way that would be successful. You don't change the core of it, but just bend and twist things around so that it is still the same thing but definitively better.
Great video as always, looking forward to more.
I think what makes this nihilistic attempt at story telling so frustrating is that it undermines what we all hope for: which is we all hope that at some point, our hard work and sacrifice is worth it.
Excellently said, espescially the highlight of the gap of Luke's development between the OT and ST. We don't need to *see* every single detail that got him there, we just to *know* how he got there somehow, be it through flashbacks or carefully written lines. But we don't have a clue what landed Luke into a emo cynic, *and that is the problem*.
@IAN HEINE the answer to those questions is in, as literature devil said, the missing cycle that was never shown to us between the 2 trilogies
I'd forgive emo and cynical Luke. If it were George Lucas I'd raise a brow but new company new direction so whatever. What I can't forgive is that Luke would even consider killing anyone in their sleep just cus he got the willies. That was dumb. Extremely dumb. I'd have a hard time believing anyone outside of a crazy paranoid or a mustache-twirling villain would do that, let alone someone who was supposed to be a good guy, no matter how jaded. That pissed me off so much. I haven't watched anything StarWars since. I'd like to keep my good childhood memories intact.
@IAN HEINE You do realise that you are saying "all of the sudden" about a THIRTY YEAR GAP. You've left Luke when he was 19, and met him again when he was 50. His entire life went by off-screen, and all we know is that his efforts to live up to the expectation people had of him ended up in a catastrophy. "what was stopping him from just rebuilding" - gee, I don't know, maybe the graves of his students he had to dig with his own hands and the letters to their families he had to write? You do realise that tragedies like this tend to break people, make them fearful of repeated failure?
Yes, it was a wrong decision to leave such monumental changes off-screen, but if you reject the changes themselves, if you demand that through his entire life Luke should've remained completely immune to doubt, fear, peer pressure, manipulation and impuliveness, and that he should've shrugged off the deaths of his students, his wards, for which he was tangentially responsible... then who is the fucking Mary Sue here?
@@Alknix Sure that change is possible. With good reasons. With character development. Neither of which we were given. Not even hints. Just stating "everything's different now" is treating neither the fans with respect ("you don't need to know the why") nor the beloved character ("you don't deserve more story"). This approach to story-telling is condescending and cheap. Frankly, it is a slap in the face to anyone who loved the original story.
And we all can see that there is not a single ounce of respect towards the source material. They didn't even deign to give Mark Hamill enough information to understand how and why his character changed. They didn't even employ the annoying recent custom of pushing off all the necessary information into some sort of comic released alongside or slightly later. They didn't placate the fans that there's good reasons as to why Luke is different. We simply were told to shut up and leave if we didn't worship at the altar of their new (badly written and wasted) characters.
@@Runenschuppe Precisely. One of Luke's defining moments (if not *the* defining moment) was his willingness to hold out for the redemption of his thoroughly corrupted father. And now you're expecting me to just accept that he would be willing to kill his own nephew over a bad dream the next time I see him. I believe such a sharp 180 on the previous protagonist deserves a more solid explanation.
Between Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace, I think there was a really good connection. We saw Palpatine's rise to power as the Chancellor in The Phantom Menace, and we saw his fall from power in The Return of the Jedi.
We also saw the fall of Anakin and the Return of Anakin. It's interesting because George Lukas described the original trilogy as 'The tragedy of Darth Vader', not the heroic deeds of Luke.
Anyway, the point made in the video is about 'rhymes'. Classical types of rhymes involved either verses being paired one after another 'I've been dreaming about the stormy sea/ in a warm home, sipping tea/Wish I had someone to talk to/Oh, how much I miss you', They can be alternating ABAB or 'hugged' ABBA. From all of those, the most pleaseant is the first one, because it instantly creates a phonetic pattern for the reader/listener.
So, returning to the Star Wars universe, the rhyme and rythm are a bit broken. Judging by the fate of Anakin and Luke, it would be a rhyme of ABCABC. This does not strike as a classical type, nor a very pleasing one. However, there are differences in the narrative points as well. Let's look at the B part, meaning Attack of the Clones and The Empire Strikes Back. In AoC the struggle between good and evil ends in a high note, with the Republic gaining the clones and being triumphant over the evil Sith. In TESB it's the exact opposite, a truely Apocalyptic note, the hero is left crippled and his friends are taken prisoners.
@@nottoday3817 Actually, the ending of AotC can be considered "darker" than TESB's ending because it heralds the extermination of the Jedi, the fall of the Republic, and Anakin's turn to the Dark Side. Conversely, at the end of TESB, Luke--despite being beaten and maimed--is filled with a renewed sense of purpose. The ending heralds the revival of the Jedi, the fall of the Empire, and Darth Vader's return to the Light. Both endings convey the same thing: an outcome that is superficially the opposite of what will ultimately transpire. So, in that sense, they do "rhyme" quite well...from a certain point of view.
Then we saw his heir rise to power in The Rise of Skywalker.
@@TheNthMouse www.rickworley.com/2016/01/07/the-force-awakens-vs-the-prequels-or-so-this-is-how-personal-expression-dies-to-thunderous-applause/
This is why they shouldn't have done a "sequel", but another story. Looking at SW videogames, you get new characters, Kyle Katarn, Jaden, Revan...you get new stories and conflicts...like, just in SWTOR, you have 8 complete stories that could have made kick ass movies or shows, because they're not burdened by "we need it to be the direct continuation of a story that already ended". I guess Disney is great at direct-to-dvd sequels to finished stories. Think about this, if you remove all the OT characters, the sequels don't hold up any interest...except for Reylos.
I mean, the banker in a game of Monopoly could decide halfway through the game that the banker gets going to draw $1000 every time they pass GO. Everyone else is going to leave the game, though.
What bothers me is the thought that is distributed a lot: "it's about space wizards" "it's a story for kids"
This is nothing but BS. This is part of the American culture I never liked: babying kids, as if kids can't handle the truth and the world
Growing up I watched Japanese Anime, cartoons even, like Voltes V (five). A show that demonstrated:
1. How badass a mother can be flying a plane to give her 3 sons time to win the battle later even if it cost her life
2. A female ninja Voltes V team member (that can whoop 3 of the other 4 team members) who loves and listens to her General Father who is the leader of the forces supporting the Voltes V team
3. A prince born abnormally and cast out, who has to live his life in another planet
4. A prince who's got a chip on his shoulder and is on a crusade based on a lie he found out later that was being hidden from him
5. I can go on so much so-called mature content in this show that's meant to be "for kids."
Kids can handle a lot and understands storyline. It's the writers that just can't admit they are not very good writers to begin with and needs to go to writing school.
Sad that we have to refer to chinese cartoons when we have to discuss something as archetypal as heroism.
I would refer any such claim "stories for children" to Avatar: the Last Airbender; a "show for kids" that is such an incredible piece of screenwriting it should universally studied.
The "it's just for kids" clutch comes from the adolecent mindset of wanting to be seen as an adult and finding everything considered childish to be shameful. There can be wisdom in the stories that children enjoy that you can't find unless you grow and realise that there was something in there to learn.
Even shows like adventure time have underlying themes that are considered mature, yet our American culture sees cartoons as things for kids to watch on Saturday mornings
Sench Ye your right and I can remember very vividly the show that began to go down the depths of shallow humor, uncle grandpa
The frase "All Rey's are queens" seems weird to a spanish speaker like me xD
All kings are queens? What?
Nunca has estado en Grindr cierto?
Eloyacoo Finn's name is also weird like that. Finn is an Irish name that means "fair" (as in fair skinned) or "white."
Makes sense when you consider that a queen is also a homosexual transvestite
jajajaja
Subverting expectations can work well within a story but only if it makes the story more interesting. For example, in Empire Strikes Back, when Darth Vader revealed to Luke that he was his father, that was an subversion of expectations but it was a great plot twist as it left us wondering how the story will proceed with this revelation, which is followed up on with the Return of the Jedi.
The Last Jedi, on the other hand, completely fails with it's numerous subversions because each one of them brought various plot threads to a screeching halt. Who are Rey's parents? Who cares, they're nobodies! Who is Snoke? Who cares, he's dead now! What happened to Luke Skywalker? He's an emo cynic now because he did something completely out of character and caused his own fall from grace. He also dies in the end so he's no longer important. Was Finn and Rose's attempt to recruit a hacker help save the day? Nope, their story arc was a waste of time but hey, at least those beasts at the casino were freed! Oh wait... nah, they probably just got captured again. Too bad they didn't bother saving those kids who were being used as slave labor, I'm sure they would had appreciated the rescue.
The other thing about subverting expectations or as I call it using a twist is that the twist needs to make and be foreshadowed. Vader being Luke's father was foreshadowed by the scene where Luke enters the cave on Dagobagh and fights the apparition of Vader which Lule's face under the helmet after Luke decapitates the apparition. That is good foreshadowing.
I find the biggest issue of the last jedi is... what's in store for the next film Ryan? What plot threads did you leave at the end of your movie? Any and all mysteries JJ set up have been deleted and diminished. This story is now about nothing, there's no foreshadowing or story details just...nothing. so ofcourse JJ had to pull anything out of his a55 like dyads and palpatine cuz... where do we go now?
Have you ever written a book?
You certainly the knowledges and the ability for what I have seen so far in your videos
I'm currently developing a comic book on IndieGoGo if you want to check it out. (112 pages for the main story)
www.indiegogo.com/projects/doctor-alpha-miracle-child-graphic-novel/x/22169562#/
How it should have ended episode 9 is so much more entertaining than the actual rise of skywalker
It's almost like TLJ was written in only one draft.
It's almost like TLJ was made up on the spot through word of mouth with no drafts at all.
Copypasted from fanfictiondotnet
Can't wait for 20 years down the road when they make Episode 10, and they dredge up Daisy Ridley just to make her a trash character that decided to kill everyone, and then the true hero is a gender-fluid trandoshan that identifies as a toaster.
Oh, yeah, 30 years later, MaRey Sue becoming a crazy porg lady and a bitter failure would be "the logical thing", at least according to reylos.
id expect the new characters to die, and then Rey comes in and becomes the main character in the last half of the movie. triple down on that shit, Disney
No, the hero will be a toaster droid that identifies as a human woman. Identifier: 1M4M4M
I would love to see another heroic Trandoshan.
I’d like to think that Kylo Force-impregnated her like Palpatine did Shmi, and Rey dies in childbirth (like Padma cuz poetry) so the trilogy would be about her twin children, the proper heirs to the Skywalker bloodline and Solo name, Jaina and Jacen Solo.
Thanks for another polished and well narrated video.
The rich heiress and cinematic hate petter lines were great.
Is it polished, though? I see all the obvious grammatical errors and always ask myself if he's doing it on purpose or actually fucking up. I still enjoy the videos, but it irks me that he puts his material into writing in very attention grabbing ways, and there's hideous grammatical mistakes.
@@LyaksandraB Perhaps english is simply not his first language? I mean, I've been learning english for a decade and a half now, and I still make multiple grammatical errors a native speaker could propably avoid with ease simply because I'm more used to my native grammar and I switch back to it subconciously.
Asimov's short story collection "I, Robot" is an excellent study in following internal canonical rules (the laws of robotics), subverting expectations (the paradoxes at the center of each story) and providing a satisfactory ending (the denouement to each story).
Thing about subverting expectations is that it needs to make sense. Like would the Godfather be any better if Sonny was abducted by Aliens instead of assassinated by a rival family and have that event be forgotten after it happens?
it's amazing how you managed to condense everything they did wrong with Luke in this trilogy. Alas, one of my favorite heroes fallen because of some wannabe director/screen writer's ego and "ingenuity". Whenever I see your videos I believe there is still sane people in this world.
What do you expect, for Luke to get in the war right away. He had to deal with his father on the dark side and now his nephew, you think he won’t be a little freaked out when he senses fear in Rey.
@@ffjreviews9029 I didn't expect him to get in the war right away. I expected the movie to give me an explanation as to why he went from a guy that, when the entire galaxy wanted to kill his father, found a way to redeem him to a guy that just because had a bad dream just went and tried to kill his own nephew without even trying to talk to him. An explanation about how he went from the most optimistic guy in the galaxy to a edgy hermit besides "he had a bad dream".
The issue with your Luke redemption arc, is that giving Luke any kind of limelight would have been misogynistic, chauvinistic, racist, patriarchal and nazi. Remember, SJWs always paint themselves into corners due to their ideology. If you want to write a story about a dude, you first have to consider how badly you've bashed dudes in front of your SJW peers, because you can be sure they will remember and hold you up to that standard. And now I've written like half of all the comments at this point. I'm fucking mental. Sorry.
You don't seem mental, just disappointed, so no need to apologize, just pull up a stool at the bar, order a drink, and make merry with the rest of us, for tomorrow is a new day, the disappointing past is gone save in memory, and we shall make entertainment great again.
yeah dude you are mental, you guys are taking this way too seriously. my god, where the hell did you even come up with this shit?
@@salt6500 From the idiotic sjws.
*Your argument was nothing but a strawman.*
*Abrams didn't give Luke any limelight because he just wanted to copy the OT and make Luke into the hermit Obi-Wan/Yoda of the DT and combined that with his stupid Mystery Box.*
Lyaksandra B I know plenty of sjws who hate the sequel trilogy and love Luke skywalker, myself included (okay i don’t hate the sequels but I do think they’re immensely flawed). Luke is my favorite of the protagonists and that’s because he was a well written character. Anakin wasn’t handled as well but thanks to clone wars i like him a lot better and think his descent to the dark side was done really well and was really tragic. I feel like rey just needed the extra development to become a far better character
Thank you for succinctly expressing what I have felt, but unable to explain, to others about narrative rules
Regarding the Aladdin comment about the movie moral vs the original fable moral. The movie actually does adapt the original moral into the climax of the film. Just like the original, Aladdin does in fact lose everything, but in the movie it is because of his weakness of not being honest and not having any confidence in that he is good enough without the Genie helping him. Had he released the Genie earlier as originally promised and been honest to Jasmine and the Sultan from the start, Yago would not have had the opportunity to steal the lamp and give it to Jafar, showing that how a lack of moral character can lead to consequences.
It is however his strength of character and wits that actually win the day when confronting Jafar in the climax of the film and he has to do it while fighting against someone who has the wealth of a Sultan and the power of the Genie at his fingertips. So the moral about lying is bad is also tied to the fable's moral about strength of character being more important than the riches one has acquired. Disney's Aladdin is actually a pretty successful adaption of the original in that sense.
I don't give two shits about Star Wars, but I still find your analyses on the subject very interesting. Kudos.
Here is my question when it comes to subverting expectations: Why did the audience have that expectation? If they have an expectation because you clearly built it up, than subverting it feels cheap. Examples of both from Game of Thrones. When Ned Stark has his head cut off, that is a good subversion of expectations because they gave us no reason to believe he would live, it was outside influence that told us that would happen. When the Red Wedding happened, again, what reasons in universe did we have to believe this guy wouldn't betray them? Then season 8 happened and there were subversion that didn't work. Aya killed the Night King dispite John being heavily hinted at by the writers themselves to be the one to kill him, making no sense and being a bad twist. Then there is the whole King Bran thing, which was a ninth hour drop that could not have been worse. Yeah none of the players the writers set up win, it goes to someone not involved at all.
So, this basically confirms that on a deep psychological level, people are not only correct but completely honest when they say that it would be fine if the given movie ruined by SJWs was about anything else, instead of trying to ride the coat tails of its predecessors. So, we're back to square one. SJWs, make your own shit and stop trying to co-opt other people's shit.
Therein lies the problem. They can't create. They aren't even capable of the effort to learn the skills necessary to create anything. The only thing they can do is to destroy. They aren't even willing to pay and read/watch the entertainment made for them.
@@grayscribe1342 It's kind of hard to create if you don't have anything worth saying. And moralistic nihilism is a sure fire way to ensure you have nothing worth saying. (This is why they don't like heroes. They can't get how people can have morals. That seems judgemental and bigoted to them.)
For example, I'm bisexual, but I don't like the idea of "identifying" as bisexual. I prefer to identify by religion, which is Christian. And the reason for that is because I can always be a better Christian. I can always love people more. I can always be more patient. I can always pray more. I can always live the commandments better. There's an "end game" to it.
Gay? How do I get better at being that?
The only "morals' they can claim is representation. All they can do is represent more "marginalized" groups and that's it. And honestly, I find the idea very childish. I'm pretty sure that the reason that inner city black kid didn't graduate from high school has nothing to do with the fact that Superman is white. I'm sure that depicting capitalists as evil in Star Wars did absolutely nothing to bring anyone out of poverty.
@@TheRisky9 You've hit the nail on the head with the gay thing. Am awful lot of BS on Twitter can be easily explained when you think of it as someone trying to prove how they're better at gayness than other people. I've never understood the whole pride scene for the same reason - being gay isn't something you've achieved, it's just something you are. Being obsessively proud of it is as weird to me as being obsessively proud of your eye colour or your birthday.
Problem with that is that they do make their own stuff and when they do it's still super bad. I mean, sure it's a self-contained dumpster fire that even their target audience rolls their eyes at, but it's out there. They ruin not only that which is co-opted, but that which is of their own creation. It's all basically just them patting themselves on the back for 'the first strong (insert minority)' and shoving as many token people into the script as possible. It's awful, and they get Oscars and Emmys and whatever else your get for movie awards for doing that crap.
@@grayscribe1342 I don't think they even want to create good things. They corrupt good things and create pure propaganda because deep down, they are nihilistic. They hate the good. They want a world where there is no good, because only then will they not be the piece of shit they know themselves to be.
The Reyturn of Rey Rey Binks
Lessons like the one you just posted in this video are what is honing my skills as a writer. A true hero is not defined by by victory. A hero is defined by action and the inspiration they gift to those who have lost hope. Heroes die on the battlefield all the time. But their death doesn't make them any less a hero. In fact, it contributes to the power of their heroism, showing that they are willing to pay any price for their ideals, including the ultimate price. That's why in Greek mythology the Gods themselves were never called the heroes. I mean, they could snap their fingers and their enemies fall dead. How heroic is that? No, the heroes were the ones who fought, bled, suffered and even died on their epic quests. The real heroes were those who even had the balls to thumb their noses at the gods, despite the terrible things that could happen to them. It's not heroic to succeed. It's heroic to attempt to succeed despite the odds.
You know what piece of media describes perfectly what it means to be a hero? One Punch Man.
Saitama is not a hero for very literally beating all bad guys in one hit. He's a hero because he's willing to fight despite not getting anything in return.
And the most badass, heroic, noble, selfless, and virtuous of all of the so-called "heroes"??
Not the brat with psychic powers, nor the child genius, nor the cyborg, nor the mad scientist, nor the man in a dog costume.
IT'S MUMEN FUCKING RIDER.
The man with no superpowers that rides a bike.
He's one of thr bravest characters I've seen. He knows too well that he's just some dude in a bike, and he still fights because it's the right thing to do. He's like the fucking embodiment of the fighting human spirit. He never gives up even against the most insurmountable odds... because he's a hero. And that's what heroes do.
_"I know no one expects much from me. And I know better than anyone how useless a C-class hero is! I know I'm too weak for B-class. I know better than anyone else that I'll never beat you!! But I must fight you anyways!!"_
@@DonVigaDeFierro Damn straight. Mumen Rider is a fucking legend.
@@DonVigaDeFierro Sad that we have to refer to chinese cartoons to discuss something as archetypal as heroism.
@@Judasdfg Japanese cartoons, (or at least cartoons heavily based on and entrenched in Japanese animation artstyles) actually.
going to Hercules for an example (at least, the Disney adaptation) remember that despite all the monsters Hercules stopped and all the people he saved, that was not what made him a true hero (even Zeus said it). What made him a true hero was his willingness to sacrifice himself to save one person in a situation where he couldn't depend on his strength to get him through (you could probably argue that his strength had been a crutch for the entire movie (not counting the early parts of the movie before he truly begins his journey where it's a source of trouble))
(note that I'm not sure how much of the Disney adaptation is true to the original story)
13:50
It also would downplay the other aspects of the movie. See, an interesting thing about Po victory over Tai Lung is that he not only won due to training but also due to his panda anatomy.
Po is, for lack of a better word, a punching bag, he is shown to be extremely resilient and able to withstand huge amounts of physical trauma(because he is fat), this now only was crucial into facing Tai Lung, but also it made him resist the Leopard signature technique: The Pressure Points Attack; Po blubber body made him effectively immune to the technique and is inclusively foreshadowed during the middle of the movie when Mantis is trying to do acupuncture on Po but can't find the nerves due to his size.
Another interesting aspect of the fight is their fighting styles. Tai Lung is hyperaggressive and has insane amounts of physical strength, which is his strong point and also why everyone failed to defeat him. Everyone who fought Tai Lung and failed tried to surpass him on physical strength only to be dominated by the Beef Monster, the only fighters who succeed in stopping Tai Lung was Oogway and Po because they fought him with different approaches. Oogway acted fast and paralyzed him with a Chi Technique, and Po acted more defensively, focusing(even if not intentionally) into tiring the Leopard with his shenanigans and counterattacking his moves, Po style is said on official media to be defensive and it shows, since Po overcomes Tai Lung by using the Feline's own strength against him(see the scene where he double-punched Po after failing to use the pressure points), this also ties to what Shifu said on the begging, that the key to victory is finding the opponents weak point and then using your strong point against it. Tai Lung doesn't have any notable weak point, so Po used his strong point(defense) to transform Tai Lung's strong point into a weak point.
Sorry for the long text, but this just shows how well-thought the whole thing was, all ties perfectly to create a strong and very satisfying cycle. The movie establishes its rules, quirks, and everything to be used later on the climax, and the results are well... awesome!
Great video anyway.
When you have MaRey Suewalker you don't need good characters.
Then again, Anakin blew up the control ship when he was only 8 years old, so why isn’t he called a Mary Sue...or Gary Stew or whatev
jweltsch22 my point is that every f*cking Star Wars character is good at shit. Like nobody ever asked “how the hell can Anakin destroy a ship” or “how the hell can Obi-Wan Beat a Sith Lord when his master couldn’t even do that” or “How can Luke grab a lightsaber with such little training”.
@@ffjreviews9029 In the case of Obi-Wan he is facing a sith apprentice not the master and he is also a trained padawan on the verge of becoming a knight and luke could grab a lightsaber without training and get his hand cut off… for Anakin? Bullshit he should have been blasted in space, but you know like in those new movies: THE FORCE.
@@thil2894 No Anakin was established to a incredible the Notice he is the only human podracer. That is because only a very powerful human force-user like Anakin could fly a podracer with the skill needed to win a race. Also Anakin crashed inside the ship's hanger and stopped at the very end of the hanger where you have the main reactors for the ship.
@@ffjreviews9029 Luke had a training with Ben in A New Hope and we don't see all of it. Plus we already saw him grab and guide the proton torpedoes into the exhaust port.
A 10 year siege on a single city, I want to know why it took so long.
Fiction rules do matter, we have something called suspesion of disbelief, and it can be broken not by lack of realism, but by inconsistency and contradictions.
This applies to ALMOST EVERYTHING, even as something like say "Fairy Odd Parents". Okay just hear me out. When the first seasons were airing, there were a few rules that forbid Timmy of wishing the following:
-The godchild is the only one allowed to see their faries, and they will lose them if they are seen by anyone else (parents, friends, etc)
-Making Somone Falling in Love or interfere in romatic relationships.
-Kill somone someone directly.
This is done because while the idea of a kid having the power to wish for something sounds cool, these rules and limitations allow the writers to not play the game of "why not have Timmy make this wish". Also only miserable kids can have godparents (usually due to parental neglect and abuse)
Come seasons 6,7,8 and onward and almost all of theses things were slowly thrown out the window. Cosmo and Wanda were regulary seen by humans like CROCKER, Making new rules up one episode to make the plot go along, and Chloe which is just.......ugh.
Goes to show you that saying "It's just fiction" is always a bad argument, and a sing of laziness and lack of commitment to the craftmanship of writing, wheter be action, comedic, dramatic, etc.
Fiction is like a Magician show. Yes it's an illusion and not real, but it takes effort and talent to make it happen, making sure all the steps are followed correctly and all the gears are moving in place.
The plot is driven by what the (protagonist's) magic can't do, rather than what the magic can do, almost my definition. In an all-powerful hero doesn't have adventures. Rather, stuff happens to, or rather around, an omnipotent hero, but is all meaningless sound and fury, having no consequence.
In the video game Jedi Knight 2, Luke has a student who murdered a fellow student, fled, became a leader of an Imperial remnant, trained his own apprentice, and led an army of Imperial remnants and artificially-created sith that almost destroyed Luke's academy. Through it all, Luke remained determined to see the whole thing through. It would've taken more than a bad dream and a rogue student to change his mind.
Even Jon Snow getting killed by the night king would have been more satisfying. After that journey, Jon Snow is asked "is it enough?" And the answer would be no! But we don't even get an answer
You kow how I would have ended that shit?
Long night 2: Electric Boogaloo.
The Night King snaps Arya's neck. The white walkers kill all dothraki and overwhelm Winterfell with sheer numbers. They go to King's Landing and wreck the city's asshole. Fuck your iron throne. Fuck your pathetic political intrigue. This is the end of Westeros in the hands of a far more powerful and ancestral menace.
The final shot: The iron throne covered in ice, with the sun slowly setting over the ruins of King's Landing. Winter has come... whether you like it or not.
@@DonVigaDeFierro
probably would've been better than what we got XD
@@DonVigaDeFierro you have written something much better then original.
The tone in the sequel trilogy is almost Lovecraftian. The heroes don't control their own fate, rather the force creates and destroys heroes like the procession of the seasons. Everything that the heroes do will be undone within their own lifetimes, putting them back to where they started. Meanwhile, the force will create a new hero on its own. Any attempt at training, mentoring, or even passing along wisdom is as ineffective as King Canute commanding the tide. Rather, the purposeless waxing and waning of the light and dark sides of the force is actually driving the universe, and the actions of the heroes, and even the heroes themselves, are but a shadow of this.
In other words: Kreia was right about everything.
In other words: if I ever suddenly gain the power to levitate things, control minds, and shoot lightning out of my fingertips Imma levitate me a Coke, make my landlord "forget" about my rent, power up my game console, and stay home.
Kotor2
Dude, this describes the Terminator series. Judgment Day said that "there's no fate but what we make for ourselves," yet the third one contradicts this with Arnie's claim that "judgment day is inevitable". Even when Skynet is erased, Legion rises from the ashes with the exact same future. John Connor is no longer the sole savior of humanity. Arnie kills him in the first ten minutes of Dark Fate, and a tiny Mexican girl named Dani is "destined" to take his place as humanity's protector. And I bet if _she_ dies, there will probably be another. So the struggling feels more and more pointless.
Under such a rendition of the setting, the only logical action is Kreia's plan to kill the force itself. If 'the gods' are setting people up to suffer constantly, then they are evil and destroying them IS the heroic quest you should set yourself upon.
You hit the nail on the head. My fundamental problem with modern storytelling is that they are are unable to create compelling characters on their own.
However, they have enough self-awarness to realize this and instead choose to denigrate the great characters of the past.
They choose to punish the audience for their love of these old characters.
We are watching movies wrong... You need to drink to fully enjoy awful movies like these.
Too bad I'm too young to drink
Tell that to Critical Drinker.
I have an empty bottle of grain alcohol that disproves your hypothesis
@@Lordpoison67 and I've found a doppelganger, though I will admit it may be a coincidence. Regardless I do agree that drinking probably won't work, I've never been drunk, but the closest I got, I spent as an encyclopedia for vast knowledge, literally getting into a topic and just running with it until getting onto a massive tangent. If anything drinking would just make me more vocal about my disdain for these movies.
Sorry Tom, but I'll have to agree with the others. There are a lot of bad movies you can thoroughly enjoy while drunk (or on other drugs as I repeatedly hear). But most of recent Hollywood media does not fall under that category. They still stay full of condescension that leeches out any enjoyment.
I have no problem with Luke coming to the conclusion that the Jedi way of doing things were wrong, the prequel's even set the precedent for it with Anakin's story, and how rigid and cold the Jedi order were the problem lies in the execution. Very poorly written and it had no clear goal. If "grey Jedi" was the main plot of the sequel trilogy that's what they should've followed. Luke should've been the one to reinvent the Jedi with new rules and Rey should've been the first Grey Jedi, could've been an epic tale.
No the Jedi protected through thick and for a thousand generations. Yes maybe some rules may not the best but they were necessary. Anakin is exhibit for why the Jedi have a rule against emotional attachment.
@@emberfist8347 you can't tell a human to ignore thier most poweful trait that's why you get psycho murderers or suicidal maniacs. They don't address their emotions, they keep it all locked up until they go insane. The jedi are not evil or bad they just had it wrong, at least that's the only way you could write a sequel about Luke being disillusioned with the order. Qui Gon was an example of a grey Jedi, he was an anomaly in the jedi council, he was emotional, caring and considerate he saved jar jar when he didnt have to, he wanted to save anakins mum. Him wanting to jedi to train anakin caused the galaxy a lot of death and destruction true but I feel only Vader could defeat palpatine I think that was the point of him being the chosen one. Palpatine would never have been defeated without anakins journey. Obi Wan even said "you'd be on the council if you weren't so combative" something along those lines, he wouldn't fall in line I think the jedi needed to be more like qui-gon even Yoda was pretty cold and stern only in the og trilogy did Yoda relax a little.
DoubleO88 A line from Mace Windu in the novel Shatterpoint is perfect for describing why the Jedi have their rules to follow. Jedi don’t things because they are right they do it because it is safe. Knights of the Old Republic further discusses this but to sum it up, Jedi are like Buddhist Monks they don’t ignore their emotions they just work to keep them in check. Anakin’s specific problem and why the Jedi forbids romantic relationships is because it can interfere with there judgement.
@@emberfist8347 Lukes order in the EU allowed relationships and it worked. Also taking kids from their parents is wrong, on so many levels
@@brucejedilee5290 Except Luke's order allowing relationships led to some of his students turning to the Dark Side during the events of Legacy Of The Force which vindicates the Jedi's decision to ban it. Also the Prequels was showed why the Jedi do that. Plus as Mace pointed in the novel Shatterpoint, the Jedi don't that kind of stuff because it is right, they do it because it is safe.
I learn more from your videos that any college class I’ve taken! Keep up the good work!
Then your college sucks dick.
It sounds like these so called show-runners try way too hard to be clever with these works and then they utterly fail. You quoting "Luke Skywalker" from The Last Redundancy reinforces my disdain towards that film, the people involved, the apologists and Disney. What a load of nihilistic tripe.
I honestly feel like that is an issue with a lot of writers these days. Instead of trying to make something entertaining they instead want to stroke their own ego by making something clever, surprising, dark or mature. What they fail to understand however is the shit they are working on is not their own creations. They didn't create things like Starwars or Superman or the Fantastic Four or whatever so all their ideas only hurt it. What does it matter if you subverted expectations, you made everyone hate your film. So what if you added all these boring philosophical questions into Batman Vs Superman, its still boring as shit and people only remember the Martha scene, and shitty versions of Lex and Doomsday. Why even add dark elements in the Fantastic Four when it becomes more forgettable than the other two failed attempts and people only remember the dumbass spelling of the name, Fant4stic or whatever. A lot of writers just want to make some grand statement, deconstruct something popular make themselves appear moral. Just write a fun story, leave that shit for Twitter, it'll be more successful for them.
Nihilistic Tripe, that about sums up a lot of modern entertainment these days.
This was awesome! Thank you Literature Devil!
What i love about "You didn't complain when Luke did it" line of argument is that it wouldn't work even if it were true. I mean, some stunts do only work once.
Also, never watched E8 and E9, so it's an unpleasant surprise to me that Luke attempted to kill someone for a thought crime.
I call it pulling a Palpatine Luke planned to kill Ben in his sleep like Palpatine did to Darth Plagueis.
Briliant as aways! Not only you broke down the essence of where they went wrong with the New star Wars movies, but it is also aplicable to many other garbage movies Hollywood has been puking into our faces these last years
To Hell with these movies.
Luke Skywalker will always be The Hero of the Galactic Civil Wars and the Yuuzhan Vong War, husband of Mara, father of Ben, uncle of Jacen and Jaina, Slayer of Abelon and Grand Master of the New Jedi Order.
*uncle of Jacen, Jaina and Anakin
Thanks for giving words to everything I felt while watching “The Last Jedi.” The writers didn’t honor the character of Luke Skywalker in this movie, and the results were disastrous.
From 31:07-32:12, yet despite denegrating Luke, the Jedi, and heroism for the whole movie, Luke says at the end "...I will not be the last Jedi." All I could think when seeing that was to sarcastically say "Yay, the Jedi are going to continue their legacy of failure." I don't understand why we were supposed to be excited for Rey after hearing, for two hours, that the Jedi need to end.
As a long time 'writer' I always believed that the rules of any fictional universe can be broken, but, and it's a huge frigging BUT there needs to be a reason behind it and I mean a really good reason and the story if it doesn't revolve wholly around the how and the why it needs to be a very present sub-plot. Stories where the rules are broken can be fascinating and intriguing stories.
Also, as the axiom says, the breaker of that rule needs to know the rules before they do so.
Not only do you need to know the rules, you need to know them like the back of your hand. And just as often, the exceptions to the rules _define_ the rules.
@@SphinxMouto true. Very true.
Sanderson's first law of magic:
"An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic."
If the reader cannot understand HOW things work, you're pulling things out of your ass. Simple, ain't it? Change "magic" with "technology", "the rules", "superpowers", "the force"... and we covered all genres.
I know this. We KNOW this. But writer "pros" do not.
@Christian Tompkins I disagree. You can just as long as it's done well but no one in Hollywood can it seems, the think they can, though.
I think it's not so much you're "breaking rules" as it is that you're expanding the rules to include either consequences, exclusions, or conditions. For example, you might have a rule that you have to have some kind of totem in order to use magic. But along comes a hero who can use magic without a totem. That seemingly breaks the rules... or does it? If you say, "Well, the totems prevent the magic from sucking the user's life force." If it's because you simply wanted the hero to be special, okay, but then never explore why he or she is an exclusion, then you've got a problem. It comes off that you just don't care.
the writer might create the world that the story takes place in but the created world is what writes script, if you establish a world and rules within that world then you need to follow those rules, the world shouldn't bend to fit the script, the script should bend to fit the world
you cant write a brave/noble knight then in the next scene have him slay an innocent village because you as the writer needed it to happen.
Exactly! If you need the village destroyed, *don't* make your hero do the deed. That's what your villain/antagonist is for.
Technically, the setting and characters are subservient to the plot, otherwise, the author will fall into world-building disease (if setting is unrestrained) or Mary Sues (if characters are unrestrained.) But, sequels have the limitation of being in an already existing setting. In a single work, it is easy for the writer to obey his own rules, as he is free to create the rules. But, even in a single work, the rules are revealed early in the story, before the rules come into play.
A sequel works under the limitations of a previous work, often written decades earlier by someone else. But, those very limitations are the point. The viewer wants to see what happens in the characters in the future.
@@blkgardner Nobody talks about the inverse of this "world-building disease" quite so much. Remember when Rowling invented a _practical time machine_ to fuel the final act in the third Potter book? And what did she say about it four books later....
When you break the cycle, you bring about an age of darkness.
Always link the fire, to do less is not grossly incandescent. \[T]/
You are SO right, about everything! This fact that Luke is seen as a hopeful illusion more than as an actual hero always pissed me off. He IS a hero. And - with all his struggles and failures, for sure - he should’ve remained one. Even in an archetypical sense, he’s not a Mentor (like Yoda and Obi). He is a Hero. He’s not a Merlin, he’s a King Arthur. And old Arthur himself is in fact very much what Luke should’ve been. Like Luke he struggled in his old age, like Luke he was morally and physically defeated by a young relative/enemy, like Luke he saw his two best friends fall in love with each other.
But unlike Luke he was there for the last battle, he was ACTUALLY there when his legendary life came to a close and was passed on to future generations.
I don’t know, this fact of the Force projection is something so many dismiss as minor, but it makes a world of difference to me. Luke spent his whole Sequel Trilogy time just complaining and being depressed on that freakin island. It’s just... so sad.
I would really liked to see you talk about Kotor 2 and Kreia, and about how that game made Star Wars and the Force deeper without taking away or just stepping over already set rules of the universe. The video was really good, and good to know that there are people who don't just throw shit on the internet and telling everyone who not agrees with them, that they are racist, woman hating selfish pricks. You explained everything very well, I liked how you mentioned Kotor 1 and Po's journey from Kung Fu Panda. I hope that sometime you really make a video about Kreia. Damn, with your well based explanations it would be really interesting.
This is actually really simple: subverting expectations can be great.
Example: When Luke was going to fight Vader, we expected a big climactic fight against the man who killed his father. But Vader WAS his father. Expectations subverted, and it was awesome. It made sense, it helped the story.
When you Last Jedi in, AKA subverting expectations just for the sake of it, then it's terrible. Rian is a hack.
The left in the past 20 years has been working hard, not to make their own heroes, but to tear down the concept of the hero. The heroic concept requires that a single individual can achieve enough to make a difference and overcome great evil. This, however, is antithetical to the leftist, "progressive" ideal, which says that only a _collective_ can be truly heroic, because the thing the left is "progressing" toward is a collective utopia.
Before they can do this, they must first deconstruct the individual hero. So they first make him weak, they make him fallible, then they make him betray what he stands for to finish off the central pillar of his heroism. Then they show him "redemption", but it is only possible through sacrificing his individuality and being subsumed by a collective. Those who comprise this collective are all failed heroes with feet of clay. It is their submission to the collective that purges them of the poison of individuality and restores their heroism through collectivism.
Thus Superman, written by the left, violates his Code and breaks General Zod's neck. He is redeemed by Batman creating a collective -- the leftist Justice League -- to which all heroes must submit before they can truly be heroic.
Luke was an individual hero. Because he didn't have a Jedi Order to submit to, he was fallible and failed by trying to murder Ben. He is now convinced that heroes -- individuals who can make a difference -- are myths. Only the collective Dyad is truly heroic. Of course, Kylo is an evil emo kid, and Rey is a puerile Mary Sue, but that's the appearance of their fallible individualist surfaces. The Dyad between them is the REAL hero.
Thus is the concept that one person can change the world destroyed in this generation, and the Collective can win without firing a shot.
The problem with the Left trying to make our Heroes _fallible_ is that they already _were._ In trying to make a flawless hero, they make no hero at all. Not that you are wrong in your analysis.
Gwen Patton damn, wonder why they're all doing this stupid shit
According the contemporary left, the "collective" is also bad, because the "collective" is ran by the "patriarchy." Rey doesn't have a Jedi Order, in fact, she has far fewer mentors and other authority figures than Luke Skywalker did.
The post-modern left basically has no agenda, beyond hedonism. Rather, it simply seeks out things to blame its own personal failures on. That is why the contemporary left sounds like a bastard troll parody of itself.
The divide is between the "gentlemanly" philosophical ideologies and, for lack of a better term "plebbery." While the (philosophical) conservative and (philosophical) radical can disagree, they can communicate and debate with each other. The pleb, on the other hand, is looking for a mixture of "bread and circuses" and a thing to blame his personal failures on. The pleb does not care about internal consistency, but creates a narrative, almost a mythology, about why somebody else is to blame for everything.
That is why Marxists are both collectivists and anarchists. The deny the "great man" because highly successful people provide a face for the system that they hate. But, they also refuse to admit that the system actually works, so they are anarchists. The Marxist, or any pleb, does not view a contradiction as a question in need of a answer. Rather, any contradiction should be ignored, as thinking too deeply might overturn their narrative, forcing them to face reality.
@@blkgardner Nah they're just mentally ill.
SJW is NOT left!
At the Sisko and Leonidas quotes, I got chills. I didn't get chills in any of the last three Star Wars movies.
That may be indicative of how heroism is conceptualized differently by some creators, and I'd love to hear a video on that.
Also, I'd love it if it were somehow possible for you to do a video each week, some of my favorite stuff online.
Spot on! I have been thinking for about 9 years now that writers no longer know how to write good movies. Copy good movies? Yes. Come up with something different but crappy? Yes. Create amazing visuals? Yes. Write a good story? No.
In my opinion the biggest flaw of Disney trilogy is ep8, like honestly it can be called non-canon and no one would care.
It didn't bring anything meaningful to the story, plot is closed, only difference between end of ep7 and begin of ep9 is that snoke is dead, beside that nothing much really changed/mattered even "building" of characters from ep8 was mostly neglected (can't blame that, as horrible those were), even the parts that were referred about ep8 were more of the winks than actual continuity.
As for Rey ~~palatine~~ Sue, i could take that, in the "LEGENDS" universe there were couple of force users that were able to read memories of touched objects etc, that character from beginning felt like one of the users of such power, the problem is how it was handled, or rather mishandled by narration and story. One of the absolutely worst part was that it was hinted at ep 7 by taking Luke sword, but next hint was somewhere around half of ep 9 (with taking dagger and commenting how terrible it's story is).
Another, probably even worst part is that she could take all the knowledge, skills and memories of all the touched objects but it should open up a new gate for narration, like loosing of self identity, emotions, not being able to tell own memories from taken ones, and falling to madness, and possibly to the dark side at it was very poorly shown in ep9.
The true problem of her powers is not really how easily she gets them, but instead how little, none in fact, drawback they had. Like there already were those types of characters like Alucard from helsing, or Jean Grey under Phoenix influence from x-men.
I don't know if without changes of staff between movies the characters would be actually build and likable but I don't think that "family friendly" Disney would allow to go with path of identity crisis, madness, dark/corrupted version of self etc, (maybe it was the reason of taking out Abrams from ep8, but I highly doubt it). Even if ep 8 was originally planned to dive into this, there were some missing elements from the start in ep7, like Rey could wear gloves as she could feel dizzy from touching things without them, or not knowing the truth about Finn from touching jacket, to name a few just from the nearly opening sequence of the movie.
I am not trying to defend Disney trilogy by any means, those are terrible movies, but they aren't by the sheer setting, but rather by mishandling nearly everything possible.
7:45 - Fantastic.
26:31 - Incredibly Fantastic.
34:21 - Brilliant+
It's always great to learn new things of The Craft and What Truly Matters
while clearly pointing out why Hyenas Will Never Be Lions.
Thank you, man.
We, the Ones In Love With Words, are very lucky to have you.
What rian did to luke skywalker is unforgivable. But even without that desecration, TLJ is hands down the worst SW movie ever. In fact its one of the worst cinematic experiences i have ever been through.
Treasure Cave I skipped TROS to see CATS in the theaters. That was pretty good.
I skipped all SW related movies and tv shows after watching TLJ.
Honestly the only thing this movies had going for them were the visuals. The "hyperspace ramming" scene was stunning... For about five seconds before my mind shouted "Hey! This makes no sense in the universe!" The Starkiller Base firing was stunning... Before I've noticed that it literally fired across the galaxy and somehow it was not only faster-than-light in real space, but visible from other worlds in realspace (despite any light having to travel for centuries. Physics, goddamnit!) I mean, were all those planets in a single star system? Death Star at least travelled to its target!
@@wojciechkowalski8061 Haha, isn't the Holdo Maneuver a fun grounds for discussion? I will argue that it didn't actually break any in-universe rules, but it absolutely *WAS* an elephant in the room that we can never again unsee.
Remember back in the original SW, our first description of flying through hyperspace was "it ain't like dusting crops, kid"? If one had to ensure that their trajectory was clear of obstacles before jumping to lightspeed, the potential _always_ existed to ask what happens if they hit something during lightspeed, but nobody _actually demonstrated it_ until Ep.8.
So, it's not technically a case of "that shouldn't be possible" but instead "why has this never happened before, and why can't it happen again?"
@jweltsch22 Which in turn explicitly raises the question _"how_ is that not a thing?" -- especially in a franchise literally NAMED after its interplanetary conflicts.
The only explanation I've heard that makes logical sense is that the Supremacy's hyperspace tracker made it (and it _alone)_ uniquely vulnerable to the Holdo Maneuver. Which would also explain why the bridge crew panicked at the last second -- they'd have already known about this weakness, but have good reason to keep it a secret from their enemies, and simply hope that nobody is desperate enough to try it.
They could have gotten away with having someone else kill/confront the Night King up until they brought Jon back from the dead. That was the moment that the promise was solidified, when they stretched the suspension of disbelief to the max that it could go while staying within the rules of the universe and gave a promise that he wasn't just brought back because he was a fan favorite but because he had a purpose. One that no one else could fill.
Return of the Jedi sets the stage for a super-powerful Luke the next time you see him with a new Jedi order. Yoda himself told him he was the first of a new order, so you expect to see Yoda's prediction fulfilled. Instead, you see him with nowhere near those powers, no Jedi order, and no empathy. The expectations set up by Return of the Jedi are gone. Rather, it seems the new ones only used the prior characters to keep it recognizable as Star Wars with no regard for what came before.
Your videos that you go through and edit and put together are amazing dude, love it. Keep it coming. I need to listen to more of your livestreams too
Thank you so much for ending on that note! It's nice to know that I'm not the only person who feels this way.
The way that Luke described how the Jedi "failed" reminded me of how France has been memed into history as "the country that surrenders", despite having won more battles than any other nation.
You can keep the peace in the galaxy for over a thousand years after defeating your enemies, but only be remembered for how you were betrayed and hunted to near extinction when they returned. And be blamed for it all.
Funny how this vid outlined several points and beyond why, even though you are free to like TLJ, it is ultimately a flawed movie. I am glad this vid actually pointed out the thirty year divide because I had people also use that as an excuse to why Luke changed so much when in reality it is all the more reason you need to EXPLAIN why he had fallen. As mentioned, we've followed Luke's journey from farm boy to Jedi in three films and seen the character he was, so his arc DEMANDS an explanation for why the sudden change. You cannot simply say 'it was thirty years' or even 'a thousand years' and expect people to suddenly accept the bright, hopeful young man who even successfully helped redeem one of the most vile men in the galaxy to suddenly consider murdering his nephew because of a fart in the wind. Hell, it is especially because he redeemed Anakin that it made it all the more questionable why he considered KILLING his nephew as even an option. It would've been different had Ben tricked Luke and simply turned to the dark side on his own (with the help of Snoke, of course), but all we got is for five seconds, Luke considered killing the boy for just a hint of the dark side. Doesn't make sense.
But noooooooooo, we are just fanbabies whining about mUh cH1LdH00d.
Loved the reference to that half-assed atempt to redeem TLJ video :)
This should have been Kylo's trilogy. I'm going to construct the starting off point from what we were given: Luke teaches Kylo, and fails. I'm not a good writer, and I sure as heck am no going to write a fanfiction: I just want to establish how Luke could have arrived in a similar position to where he was at the beginning of TFA (yes, I know we see him first in TLJ) while staying true to his character.
Luke should have been too believing in Kylo, and unwilling to harshly discipline him if he was wrong, since his teachers never had to do this, as the harsh lessons kind of taught themselves. And he probably wouldn't realize just how much moral character development he got from being a moisture farmer on a hostile planet and fighting in a war, and overestimate the moral progress of his pupil. And further, as Luke himself would never betray family, and he saw that even Vader was unwilling to kill him, he thus would never believe that Kylo would betray Han, Leia, and himself. Maybe Rey could be an adopted child, or fellow student, or something, and her dedication to her training made her (temporarily) more powerful than Kylo, because despite his potential for greater power he didn't train very hard, and this makes him incredibly jealous. Maybe he could strand Rey on a planet and leave her for dead, and attempt to wipe her memories with the force, which causes her to forget almost everything; due to his inexperience, this should leave her mentally impaired, with the cognitive ability of a young child. He returns and claims she was killed in such a manner that her corpse is unrecoverable, perhaps bending the truth rather than lying to avoid detection. Rey, on the other hand, fights through her disability through sheer determination, and picks up a job that makes use of her largely untrained and unidentified force abilities and doesn't exacerbate her disability ... maybe a pilot.
Kylo soon betrays Luke, possibly when he is confronted over what happened to his partner Rey. Luke beats him, but lets him leave, and he blames himself for his fall, which is only partly true, rather than accept that Kylo chose to betray his family because of personal failings. He isolates himself along with many of the remaining jedi, believing that the historical jedi involvement in the politics of the Republic was the cause of many of the past failures of the jedi, which is mostly true, and the main cause of Kylo's fall, which is mostly untrue ... make it jealousy, or sloth. Luke's self-imposed isolation turns into exile when he realizes that the remnants of the Empire are hunting him down, as he was a huge war hero and a large part of the establishment of the new political order, and now his protections have been stripped away. To prevent harm coming to those around him, he sends the jedi into fiercely independent and well-defended spaces (Mon Cala, Mandalore, Hirrun, etc.) and hides himself away in ancient sith ruins (maybe on Yavin 4), hoping to confront Kylo or the few jedi who followed him as they search for power. Maybe he knows this location is compromised since a holocron with it's location was stolen when Kylo left the temple. Rey and company could shadow Kylo to the temple and discover Luke, who again beats Kylo, but his hesitation allows Kylo to escape, possibly leading to the death of one of Rey's close friends, which she blames Luke for.
The new government is too busy with rebuilding the core to care about all the shenanigans the remnants of the Empire under Kylo and Snoke are doing. They're more concerned with hardline Imperials trying to take back the core. That, and they are very small ... most systems want to remain independent, as the last galaxy-wide government became a tyrannical oppressive regime, book-ended by two brutal civil wars ... seems pretty reasonable. This, however, leaves planets open to Kylo and Snoke's relatively small forces that maybe are sector-sized. This, and the populace has resigned itself to violence after a separatist movement's war, a tyrannical government's military oppression, a violent and bloody rebellion, and the subsequent infighting and power grabs (not just by former Imperials) upon the disintegration of the Empire. Oh, and the core systems get a ton of money by selling arms to both sides, and have no real motivation to protect other systems outside of those that supply them with raw resources. They also fear separatist backlash if they attempt to send military aid to stabilize regions and oppose the First Order and other Imperial remnant factions ... that war's probably still fresh in everyone's minds in the core despite it happening a while ago, since the Empire would have really played the angle that they ended the Separatist war in their propaganda.
And ... yeah, that puts the pieces near where they are. Kylo finds a sponsor in the reformed remnants of the Empire and finds someone who has some force powers and knowledge. It'd be cool if they Snoke was a deformed experiment made by Palpatine as he explored Sith alchemy (he left him to die and thought him dead) and while he would not be that powerful directly, he would have very dangerous knowledge that even Palpatine didn't want to use (bioweapons, or something like that which would severely harm the galaxy he wanted to rule) and some inside knowledge, including caches of weapons and ships, gleaned from computer archives Palpatine left behind. (Cool thought ... what if his plan was to promote cheap labor from lobotomizing people? Once the galaxy was reliant on their labor, flip a kill switch in them all and watch as the economy disintegrates. Makes re-conquering a lot easier, and builds on the reconditioning plot point made in TFA) Rey, meanwhile, goes undiscovered by the new jedi order since they largely concentrate their recruiting efforts in a few key systems and are small in number. She joins a mercenary band working for governments as protection, which often comes into contact with First Order troops.
End the series on Luke's sacrifice and Kylo's death. Luke finally overcomes his aversion to hurting Kylo and sacrifices himself to kill him. Perhaps this redeems Luke in Rey's eyes and makes her realize she was wrong about him being a coward, and perhaps also realize she was too much of a firebrand herself. Denouement: Rey, being one of the few survivors, goes before the jedi council and senate and shares his story with them, which galvanizes them into action. Ackbar should also sacrifice himself, and his death should lead the Mon Calamari to action, possibly having them join the new central government. Finn could testify before the ruling body about the atrocities committed by the First Order and the truth about their plan to undermine the economy of the core systems so they could conquer them, which causes much of the core to realize that refusing to aid those in need when they call for aid, even military aid, is as wrong as forcing people to stay in the Republic was.
Addendum: effort should be made to show that the Empire, while brutal, was arguably justified in its approach to instability outside of the core. Perhaps, even the Imperial remnant within the Core would stand down or join the fight against the Rim Imperial remnant factions, including the First Order once they realized that their resistance to the new government was only fomenting disorder within the Core and distracting them from the rampant disorder in the Rim regions, which should run counter to their morals. I also think the massive corruption of the Empire above and beyond that of even the Republic should lead all sides to recognize that a highly centralized galactic government is a bad idea.
Tl;Dr The galaxy should be a shambles, the new government and jedi should be afraid to face off against the First Order for interesting political reasons, Kylo should die by Luke's hand, and Luke and Ackbar should sacrifice themselves, which pushes the fiercely independent systems and new government to band together to defeat most of the Imperial remnant.
I’ve never heard anyone explain the problem with “subverting expectations” more clearly and concisely. Amazing job.
My conclusion has always been that they just didn’t know how to explain all the changes and just tried to make a movie around all the holes in the story.
I always thought it was weird that Luke wasn't the optimistic one with the idea of "Oh I need to figure out a way to redeem Ben" & Rey was the one that was all "We need to kill Kylo! He killed Han & crippled my best friend!" Then the ark of the Movie was that Rey needed to find the good (Light) in all people & how to deal with it.
The problem with the Disney Trilogy is that its creators try to repeat a success of its precedessor(s) without understanding of the mechanisms. Like somebody learning to paint a human figure, copying an artist - and trying to best them - without understanding of the human anatomy and making the figure disfigured.
Another problem is trying to make Star Wars "contemporary" and "actual", instead of what they always were - universal. People around the globe do not understand - or frankly do not care - about the first world problems of Americans. Luke was a hero you could identify with no matter who you were, you learned along him. Rey? We are skipping the learning, even the supposed actual learning happens in-between the films, but the main point is - she is just unlikable. She doesn't change at all, doesn't learn and evolve character-wise. She always knows better and - what is important - there is not consequences for her missteps, it's always somebody else who pays for her arrogance and in the end she takes the Skywalker name - as if proving that even at being Skywalker she's better than Skywalker... What message exactly is that?
That last line (the one Luke told Rey) legit made me say "F-U" at the movie at least once because it came from Luke's mouth; it's like the writers didn't realize who was the man who trained Darth Vader in the first place and thought it was ok for Luke to insult Old Man Ben Kenobi aka his Old Master and I would say a beloved friend, even if his interactions are somewhat more of a father and son nature or tutor and apprentice. Like it bloody betrays the character of Luke and I don't get how people thought he redeemed himself in that scene. There could have been a redemption had he survived, but because he died...it just made it more painful knowing that his first step towards redemption was his first step into his grave...TLJ blows a large chunk of Donkey Sausage, pardon my French.
I think this reasoning you explained for why TLJ felt like a betrayal is the same reason why I don't like Blade Runner 2049: the film has a subversive twist in the middle of the second act or close to the beginning of the third act, and it just felt like I wasted my time watching this movie. Like I get Deckard was the protagonist of the previous film, but in this one, his only purpose is a means to find his child, and though we think K is the most likely person to be the child, it turns out it wasn't the case, and I just end up feeling like the Automaton learning that it was all for naught. Like it's well-made, but it makes me think Ridley Scott or whoever wrote that film is just a hack that wanted to ruin his previous works by making subpar sequels that supposedly expand the lore, but like they mostly serve to annoy audiences.
As always LD an well said and well made video. You are criminally under watched my friend.
I am impressed by your ability to gather credible examples from various movies and shows. Watching all those movies and tv shows must take a huge amount of time.
To properly deconstruct something, you must first understand what makes it work in the first place. You have to have an appreciation for it, not disdain.
The ability to put into words feelings that others couldn't express is the true hallmark of a great writer. Thank you very much for this video essay; I could feel all the pieces clicking into place as you spoke. It feels good to finally understand what the writers got wrong.
_"When you strip away the TRUTH and look at the SELF-PITY, the legacy of Luke Skywalker is not a hero but a FAILURE."_
- Literature Devil
I've suspected for a while now that while studios and writers may know "what audiences want" it's only on a superficial level and they don't know why we want these things. TLJ tried "hope for the hopeless" but it was hollow and bastardized as the Resistance continued to fail. Holdo should have inspired hope in her people, but for whatever reason didn't explain her plans which left them confused and scared enough that people were trying to run away and even her own bridge crew turned on her. Then the film didn't portray this as a sensible response, but that they were being foolish and should have trusted her for....reasons. Then the film keeps insisting that the Resistance is the hope of the galaxy...as they fail and cower on a planet calling for help. They didn't scatter to regroup. The only bit of hope to be given was when Finn was ready to sacrifice himself to give everyone time, which could have inspired the failing Resistance. But then suddenly Rose stopping him and telling him they need to "save what they love" which was what he was doing, but for some reason Finn couldn't be the hero, but Rose was for...damning everyone.
We see it in Marvel these days too. They see nerds arguing who the strongest superheroes are (an exercise in logic, memory, and creativity) and assume this means the most powerful heroes are what people want, but again not knowing why. So we get Captain Marvel propped up as The Most Powerful Hero Ever and are expected to love her for it. And when we don't because they don't know why we like certain things, they get angry and blame us for not "watching movies right".
Now time to compare Rey the Mary Sue to Alita from Battle Angel Alita.
10,000 years and humans have perfected story.
Then circa 2010 some dudes in Hollywood say, "F that".
So, the stories that are masterpieces of open storytelling and leave you thinking and questioning things are just manipulative garbage just like skinner (loot) boxes. Those writers are just exploiting our need to see things through. What a surprise that this modern storytelling device, the open end, is also garbage, just like most modern art.
Dude this is top notch storytelling education, please make more of these kind , thanks man 🙏
One lesson I learned from my friends is this:
if your audience is composed of 10 people and only one is complaining, then the story is not of his taste
If your audience is composed of 10 people, and 7 of them are complaining, then, your story is wrong
The audience is never a problem
You have no idea how much I love this channel. It helps me so much when writing comics.
Awesome! Very glad to hear the videos are helping