I had lower back pain for the last 10 years (I’m 31). Doctors, therapy, prescriptions, chiropractors, and rest all failed to remedy the pain. 1 month of squats and deadlifts made it all go away.
I relate a lot to that. I play soccer and I sometimes injured myself with muscle spasm in my lower back due to my weak muscles in the back. However since i started squat and deadlift there is much less pain and my back is getting stronger, reducing my risk of injury
@Quentin Styger that's why it's better to have a publicly funded health system like they do in europe, so that doctor's aren't incentivised by money. That way, they can give out the medical advice that is the best, not the medical advice that can give them the most amount of money
@@nelsonnotmandela8725 Start with a squat program like Stronglifts 5x5...start off with light weight and slowly work your way up. The key is to strengthen the muscles in your back so that they can support your loose spine. Let me know if this helps I would gladly explain more if needed.
As a senior citizen with a train wreck for a back, I marvel and feel blessed that I can still deadlift and squat. Proper technique and respecting your limitations is key. Surgeon told me I would need surgery 10 years ago.😆
70- year old with a history of back issues that ceased completely when I found Rippetoe and began Starting Strength at age 59. I'm deadlifting 400 lbs now and pushing to hit 450 later this year. The only time my back bothers me is when I go on vacation and can't lift.
I’m over 40 and have a disc herniation in my low back. Physical therapy and prescription medicine was a waste of time. I do the starting Strength Program with strict form and no longer have back pain. That’s because my “core” has become stronger and more stable from the lifts.
@@tatedoh Back pain may have different causes. Make sure it is in fact the deadlift and not HOW you deadlift. Try variations, rack pulls or trap bar, especially if you’re tall. Back pain won’t go away if your back gets weaker so figure out what works for you and train it. Good luck.
@@tatedoh same boat here man. I gave them up and just do my leg days with dumbbells LMAO but it’s all good, still in great shape. The pain would always set me back
Hi Eva, have you seen Alan Thrall's squat tutorial? It's very helpful for resolving common issues. I had lower back pain from my sedentary lifestyle and kyphotic posture until after squatting and deadlifting for a couple of months. I'm not sure where you are in your training, but just performing the movements correctly and consistently will do wonders. I had hip pain while squatting until I learned to brace. Some people incorrectly sit back while squatting down but the correct cue is to first brace the core. Get really tight, squeeze glutes together and abs at the same time after you unrack the bar, then descend until you break parallel. Bracing the core by squeezing glutes and keeping abs contracted will help you maintain a neutral spine, which is needed to improve lower back pain/take pressure off of lower back.
remember, you have to be able to progress with core work too. If you do same exact thing without progression, your core won't get stronger, that's one of the reasons why barbell strength training is the best for strengthening core. Planks are good too, because you can progress with adding weights to planks. Ofc you can progress with leg raises by manipulating reps, sets and rest time between sets etc, but that gets you only so far
You can hurt your back doing starting strength. But even if you do, you can still make it stronger and less prone to injury. Just don’t add too much weight too fast and don’t stay at phase 1 for too long.
I am 45 years old and deadlift and squat every week but can’t go heavy due to lower back disk pain and dodgy knees. I max out lifting my own body weight or slightly more (75kg or perhaps 80kg) on both lifts. Any more and I can feel my form is jeopardized andI feel it in my lower back and knees. It’s so annoying because I know how important it is to do these two lifts and they’re supposed to be the ones I can go heaviest with.
Honest John Yep 👍, me too. I can do just a little over my body weight as well. I was feeling some back pain today, hadn’t done deadlifts since last week. I just did 205lbs of squats tonight, will see how I feel tomorrow.
Cesar V. I think it might have something to do with neglecting my legs when I was younger. In the 90s I was bodybuilding bro style. Pyramid sets, crazy focus on bench and curls, legs were an afterthought and leg press machine was the go to. Therefore I was top heavy and when I did start working deadlifts and squats, I treated them like any other lift, just loaded it up and started pushing without really learning good form. Hence the injuries and now it’s too late 😩
Honest John 😂 Sounds just like me in the early 90’s, I also did mostly upper body too and neglected legs! I also did too much isolation exercises, now I focus on main compound lifts. I wish RUclips existed back then, I’ve learned so much now about fitness and proper techniques. You know that old saying, “wish I knew then, what I know now”. I’m 51 now but am at least trying to pass on this knowledge to my teenage son and hopefully help him on his fitness journey.
I might respectfully add that abdominal vacuums can help fine tune that tummy. And possibly cushioned crunches if you aren't moving the spine much. But please don't do anything with too much range of motion. As a guy with a fused spine, I say listen to this man. Too much back and forth will bite you.
Hi Jacob, mind if I ask what you had that led to surgery? An MRI showed that I have anterolisthesis of L5 over S1 and two bulging lumbar discs, and narrowing of foramina. The latter I can deal with, it's the spondylolisthesis that I find depressing because from what I understand I'll never be able to hit a PR for squats, deadlifts, atlas stones, or even do kickboxing for that matter. I'm only 40 so I wasn't ready to throw in the towel this early. By the way the slippage is only grade 1 as far as I know so I'm not a candidate for surgery, I just have to "take it easy" indefinitely 😢 is what I keep hearing. Would like to hear your input and story 👍
I had upper back first then neck pain. It just started from standing... Nothing else. Getting a nerve burn next week. Any tips on how to correct this problem?
i did roman chair crunches for 10 years with heavy weights .my 2 rep max was done with 45 kg .as i gained more knowledge i just stopped doing it .chinups are better for ab development than situps weighted chinups,dips press ,squat deadlifts .good mornings .,my abs have actually grown thicker and stronger .siitups are the worst things for spine and less effective tahn all the above
The "core" gets stronger during the lifts as long as form, loading and progression are correct. I havent done a situp in over 20 years. Im 61, have scoliosis, and disk arthritis and deadlifted 490 in competition. If you want to do "core" exercises other than the lifts, you can do weighted planks, farmers carries, suitcase deadlifts and some others that work the spine in isometric fashion.
@@anlu4043 I'm thinking that the hanging sit-ups, I forget what they are really called, seem like they might be a good option. I remember doing them in high school. Just hang from my knees, upside down, and then curl up to touch my chest to my knees, or as close as I could. It stretches out your spine and keeps everything pretty well lined up throughout the range of motion, or at least so it seemed. I also liked that you had such a long range of effective motion meaning my abs were being worked all the way through and more areas of the muscles were used because of this.
I get a shooting pain when I'm doing deadlifts so I guess that's not the way for me. Can someone help me? Been in chronic back pain for almost 10 years and I'm only 25 years old 😫
back extensions are a perfectly fine exercise for your spine at any age *if done correctly*, you are not supposed to hyperextend. the purpose of a back extension is to move the upper body, preferably with a weight in hand, through space, using the glutes and hamstrings. not low back flexion. they're commonly, and incorrectly, called hyperextensions. you don't hyperextend, your spine stays neutral. exercises done incorrectly don't count, as you said.
I agree and also deadlifts are literally the worst thing anyone can do if they have a bad back situps are way safer. I disagree with everything this guy just said
@@fallguy6196 you are demonstrably false. sit ups do not help your back pain, getting a stronger back will help your back pain. deadlifts are the safest way to build a stronger back as well as the most effective. if deadlifts cause you back pain you do not know how to deadlift.
@@frodothehobo9938 you misread what I said. I said deadlifts are NOT good when you have a bad back. I didn't say they don't make your back stronger. They are NOT good if you have a bad back. And sit ups absolutely strengthen your core and your back as well as alot of core excersizes all better than deadlifts
@@fallguy6196 i know what you said. I said its wrong. Sit ups do not strengthen your core. They may create a small amount of abdominal hypetrophy but in reality your "core" is made up of a bunch of muscles, obliques, abdominal wall, spinal erectors and pelvic floor. The primary function of these muscles is isometric contraction to stabilize the spine under load. Aka not flexion. Sit ups involve spinal flexion which both only involves the abs as opposes to the whole torso and teaches the wrong movement pattern. Deadlifts require the entire torso to be extremely rigid under load while the lats glutes hamstrings and quads hinge the hips. With all due respect you should open up a biomechanics textbook if you think sit ups are a useful exercise and deadlifts are bad for your back. That is simply untrue and basic observation of anatomy would quickly disprove your theory.
Back extensions are normally fine, however, they should be done passively and generally not actively unless isometrically as rippletoe mentions. However, there is an entire effective methods for some types of back pain that focus just on back extensions that is very very effective (McKenzie). In which after stabilization programs that add foundational lifts are done after. On the other hand generally, back extensions aren't so great with DDD or stenosis. So it kinda depends a lot. The back is complicated.
What kind of people dislike this? i mean i get that some people don't like rip but i cant imagine people disagreeing with this statement. well at least not real coaches
Eh. His view here is pretty myopic. Not every lot of LBP is going to be due to hyper mobility and requires specifically "stabilising". If the population he's talking about has benefited from squatting and deadlifting it's at least as likely it's due to increased tissue capacity as it is increased stability.
I get where you coming from, but I was referring to the static position during pressing, where the back is extended under load, rather than the concentric movement.
Advising not to do back extensions in the presence of back pain is ill advised.do them before during and after your squats and deadlifts and reap the benefits.always be suspicious of dogma.even rips.
5'10, 190lbs BW, 21 years old, 285lbs x6 squat, 365 x1 deadlift. Funny how whenever I squatted in the past I would get constant morning back pain and just these last 4 days that I've tried those "silly" 5 minute ab workouts I finally feel relieved. Just BW stuff like front and side planks and some crunches, no situps.
Do you have a scientific body of evidence to support this claim? Blanket statements like this really should be accompanied by evidence to support them. I get your reasoning but the evidence may support the use of both movements you say to avoid. Hell, there is a whole set of therapy based upon flexión or extension to relieve back pain. I’m not a big supporter of this protocol but it has more scientific evidence supporting it than you presented.
Actually Rip is right here. I work in rehab and sit-ups are pretty well known as a terrible exercise. Back extensions are at least not damaging. While I don't always agree with what Rip says, strengthening the back and core muscles through squats and deadlifts (performed correctly, not ego-lifting) will do a lot more for someone with back pain than many (if not most) other exercises. It's funny, there actually is not that much literature supporting sit-ups/extensions for improving back pain. Yoga certainly helps, and there is some research there, but how much of that research "proves" that it's yoga that worked when the sample of people in the research were completely sedentary beforehand? How many of these people would have simply improved by a strength-training or regular walking routine? Probably a lot of them. The research I've seen shows that the main culprits of back pain are sedentarism, long periods of sitting (such as long commutes), muscle weakness, and poor sleep hygiene.
There is an article by Stuart McGill you can find on google which investigates sit-ups high peak of compression on the lower back. There was a link between spinal compression and low back pain found in the studies. The McGill big 3 has helped me a lot personally. Before that I was doing a lot of flexion that, for me, made it worse. Stuart does specifically state though that he hates when people are diagnosed with "general back pain" since everyone's situation is different. He adds on to that and explains that not everyone with low back pain should be recommended the same treatment, because there are so many different type of back injuries with different set of restrictions in how to go about treating it.
@@TheAnvilMan I agree. I watched this episode because I do have a certain back pain or discomfort, though I don't think it is the sort of thing Rip is talking about here. I think mine is not due to disk wear or anything with my nerves but rather just muscle cramping. I have been in a couple car accidents that resulted in my muscles pulling my spine in a twisted fashion. I have noticed that usually it is just when I start to straighten up to fast that my lower back muscles cramp up like they are panicking. Then they relax and I can move around better and the soreness goes away. There's a bit more to it but essentially after hearing Rip talk about this it sounds like he is describing something else involving the disks and pads and probably a more constant and sharper pain. I find that for me stretching and more movement of my "core" seems to be good for it. Also I find that everything I do to strengthen my other areas related such as my hips, glutes, upper back, traps, lats, everything is also helpful.
He didn't say that you have to destroy your spine with a lot of pounds and stress. I think he just said that just lift to strength the core and lower back, without ego lifting because it obviously will make it worse
I agree that "the core" is not just doing abs and crunches but why would a program that is only emphasizing one of the three planes of motion (the SS program, and the sagittal plane specifically) be able to properly train the trunk of a human being and begin to achieve balance in the entire system? Not really respecting the stuff this guy is preaching :-/
The core's primary purpose has absolutely nothing to do with active extension and flexion of the abs and lower back. Do you know what the purpose of them are? They exist purely to stabilize the pelvis by generating internal pressure which, among other things, is essential when lifting heavy. Without that core holding everything in, there would be no transmission of power from the legs to the shoulders. The tighter the core is and more capable it is to generate internal pressure, the more efficient that transmission of power is. Why do you think powerlifters wear belts in competition? The belt provides additional pressure to the core, and *directly* increases the lifter's maximum.
@Adrian That's a terrible reason. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I don't think Rip knows much about personalized training or proper human movement training. Taking advice from this dude is like taking weight loss advise from a skinny person who starves themselves. IMO, of course ;)
@@PurplemonkeyHS he's a coach for 40+ years ...he was coached by bill starr and tommy suggs and he coached thousands of people ,hundrends of coaches are going by his methods ...but fine rip aint knows shit... go watch some athlean-x videos
I had lower back pain for the last 10 years (I’m 31). Doctors, therapy, prescriptions, chiropractors, and rest all failed to remedy the pain. 1 month of squats and deadlifts made it all go away.
Please could you explain. Obvs it must be a slow process
I’ve had back pain for 12 years - on and off continuously
I relate a lot to that. I play soccer and I sometimes injured myself with muscle spasm in my lower back due to my weak muscles in the back. However since i started squat and deadlift there is much less pain and my back is getting stronger, reducing my risk of injury
J Law good for you.
@Quentin Styger that's why it's better to have a publicly funded health system like they do in europe, so that doctor's aren't incentivised by money. That way, they can give out the medical advice that is the best, not the medical advice that can give them the most amount of money
@@nelsonnotmandela8725 Start with a squat program like Stronglifts 5x5...start off with light weight and slowly work your way up. The key is to strengthen the muscles in your back so that they can support your loose spine. Let me know if this helps I would gladly explain more if needed.
the ＣＯＲＥ
that's exactly what I thought of
2:08
As a senior citizen with a train wreck for a back, I marvel and feel blessed that I can still deadlift and squat. Proper technique and respecting your limitations is key. Surgeon told me I would need surgery 10 years ago.😆
70- year old with a history of back issues that ceased completely when I found Rippetoe and began Starting Strength at age 59. I'm deadlifting 400 lbs now and pushing to hit 450 later this year. The only time my back bothers me is when I go on vacation and can't lift.
I fully respect and appreciate the bluntness you bring. Don't stop
I’m over 40 and have a disc herniation in my low back. Physical therapy and prescription medicine was a waste of time. I do the starting Strength Program with strict form and no longer have back pain. That’s because my “core” has become stronger and more stable from the lifts.
Still training? How's it going?
@@tommyharris5817 it’s going good. I had a little setback with a broken foot. I had to deload but I’m getting stronger again.
@@7flat9 Great to hear
0:43 I thought he was going go say something else. 🤣
When I have back pain/discomfort and I do deadlift, the pain goes away.
@@tatedoh Back pain may have different causes. Make sure it is in fact the deadlift and not HOW you deadlift. Try variations, rack pulls or trap bar, especially if you’re tall. Back pain won’t go away if your back gets weaker so figure out what works for you and train it. Good luck.
@@tatedoh same boat here man. I gave them up and just do my leg days with dumbbells LMAO but it’s all good, still in great shape. The pain would always set me back
I knew what Rip was going to say: squats and deadlifts! Watched it anyway. 😂
He actually said those re things you should do
I had sciatica for years it's still there but starting strength training means that I can function normally now. thank you!
*spoiler alert* sit ups, back extensions, limbo, Turkish dancing, twerking
I'm never giving up my Turkish dancing!
Loooooooooolzzzzzzz🤣🤣🤣🤣
Great timing 👍. I am suffering from left lower back pain and feel the pain during squats whenever I load the bar
Hi Eva, have you seen Alan Thrall's squat tutorial? It's very helpful for resolving common issues. I had lower back pain from my sedentary lifestyle and kyphotic posture until after squatting and deadlifting for a couple of months. I'm not sure where you are in your training, but just performing the movements correctly and consistently will do wonders. I had hip pain while squatting until I learned to brace. Some people incorrectly sit back while squatting down but the correct cue is to first brace the core. Get really tight, squeeze glutes together and abs at the same time after you unrack the bar, then descend until you break parallel. Bracing the core by squeezing glutes and keeping abs contracted will help you maintain a neutral spine, which is needed to improve lower back pain/take pressure off of lower back.
@@stevensmith4706 thanks 😊♥️
Back Mechanic by Stuart McGill = the bomb
"Them bomb" eh?
I've seen kids in rollerblades lately too. Looks like we're finally done with retro-80s, and the 90's are back.
You got that right. That book and Stuarts lecture on youtube There is no thing like non specific back pain is a life changing
Clamshells
Monster walks
McGill Big 3
Reverse Hypers
Dead hangs
Brisk walks
Cat camel
Wall deadlift
Whats "McGill Big 3"? I know the name--Stuart McGill. He is the Spine expert; its all about spinal stiffness.
@@PearsAreOkay ths Mcgill big 3 are the bird dog, the side plank and the modified crunch
Music to my ears
I do facepulls to strengthen my abs and back
ok
OK
I got a question. What about Burpee test? It also has a flexion phase and extension phase while performing.
Would be awesome with a video what to do, and how to do those exercises for 40+ people with bad backs!
But it’s the squats and deadlifts that hurt my back
technique or loading(programming) is your issue. Too much too fast, too often.
What would you say about hanging abs exercises like leg raises? Surely, there will still be some spinal flexion, but also traction.
In my experience it really does help with recovery from mild lower back pain. Ofc if it is a serious injury, go see your doc :)
@@c.j.8194 No injury thankfully, I just want to prevent as much as possible
remember, you have to be able to progress with core work too. If you do same exact thing without progression, your core won't get stronger, that's one of the reasons why barbell strength training is the best for strengthening core. Planks are good too, because you can progress with adding weights to planks. Ofc you can progress with leg raises by manipulating reps, sets and rest time between sets etc, but that gets you only so far
@@ollvi thanks for the response
C. J. Doing them actually hurt my back. I don’t do them anymore.
Planks, Superman’s, deadlifts, and squats and my back has been feeling bulletproof.
Hi would the Jefferson curl also be a bad idea?
.. "Thuh... Coore" of muh spinal discs
You can hurt your back doing starting strength. But even if you do, you can still make it stronger and less prone to injury. Just don’t add too much weight too fast and don’t stay at phase 1 for too long.
Deadlifting from the floor damaged my ligaments whereas deadlifting from 2" below knees worked fine.
@@tommyharris5817 how'd you do that? Did you raise the deadlift bar by placing plates under it?
@@genxer74 In a power rack
the rdl is better than the conventional deadlift
I am 45 years old and deadlift and squat every week but can’t go heavy due to lower back disk pain and dodgy knees. I max out lifting my own body weight or slightly more (75kg or perhaps 80kg) on both lifts. Any more and I can feel my form is jeopardized andI feel it in my lower back and knees. It’s so annoying because I know how important it is to do these two lifts and they’re supposed to be the ones I can go heaviest with.
Honest John Yep 👍, me too. I can do just a little over my body weight as well. I was feeling some back pain today, hadn’t done deadlifts since last week. I just did 205lbs of squats tonight, will see how I feel tomorrow.
Cesar V.
I think it might have something to do with neglecting my legs when I was younger. In the 90s I was bodybuilding bro style. Pyramid sets, crazy focus on bench and curls, legs were an afterthought and leg press machine was the go to.
Therefore I was top heavy and when I did start working deadlifts and squats, I treated them like any other lift, just loaded it up and started pushing without really learning good form.
Hence the injuries and now it’s too late 😩
Dude I feel your pain 😭😭
Honest John 😂 Sounds just like me in the early 90’s, I also did mostly upper body too and neglected legs! I also did too much isolation exercises, now I focus on main compound lifts. I wish RUclips existed back then, I’ve learned so much now about fitness and proper techniques. You know that old saying, “wish I knew then, what I know now”. I’m 51 now but am at least trying to pass on this knowledge to my teenage son and hopefully help him on his fitness journey.
What about severe discus hernia on 3 different spots on the spine?
Another fantastic video. Thanks RIP!
I sometimes get randomly low back pain but never while doing deadlift or squats
What are some good exercises for hunchbacks? Did Quasimoto deadlift?
Ring bells. Start with small bells.
I might respectfully add that abdominal vacuums can help fine tune that tummy. And possibly cushioned crunches if you aren't moving the spine much. But please don't do anything with too much range of motion.
As a guy with a fused spine, I say listen to this man. Too much back and forth will bite you.
Hi Jacob, mind if I ask what you had that led to surgery?
An MRI showed that I have anterolisthesis of L5 over S1 and two bulging lumbar discs, and narrowing of foramina. The latter I can deal with, it's the spondylolisthesis that I find depressing because from what I understand I'll never be able to hit a PR for squats, deadlifts, atlas stones, or even do kickboxing for that matter. I'm only 40 so I wasn't ready to throw in the towel this early.
By the way the slippage is only grade 1 as far as I know so I'm not a candidate for surgery, I just have to "take it easy" indefinitely 😢 is what I keep hearing.
Would like to hear your input and story 👍
I assume this same thing goes for muscle soreness from actual intense direct lower back or lumbar / spinal erector work ?
I had upper back first then neck pain. It just started from standing... Nothing else. Getting a nerve burn next week.
Any tips on how to correct this problem?
Did you try the McKenzie method?
Thank you coach rip 👊🏿
the muscles of...The Who-ore...
I can't squat or deadlift without low back pain.....
Or better yet,just add bands to the workout.You get the load on the muscles w out so much weight on the joints.
Counterintuitive but excellent advice.
So we're just going to ignore the compression aspect of squats and deadlifts to an already damaged spine? sounds like a recipe for success!
2:09
i did roman chair crunches for 10 years with heavy weights .my 2 rep max was done with 45 kg .as i gained more knowledge i just stopped doing it .chinups are better for ab development than situps weighted chinups,dips press ,squat deadlifts .good mornings .,my abs have actually grown thicker and stronger .siitups are the worst things for spine and less effective tahn all the above
So...what if the core is your limiting factor in both those lifts? What should you do for accessory work?
bunkerbob25 work up from just squatting and deadlifting the bar and that will never happen. Ever.
The "core" gets stronger during the lifts as long as form, loading and progression are correct. I havent done a situp in over 20 years. Im 61, have scoliosis, and disk arthritis and deadlifted 490 in competition. If you want to do "core" exercises other than the lifts, you can do weighted planks, farmers carries, suitcase deadlifts and some others that work the spine in isometric fashion.
I assume weighed crunches are ok? I'm 99% sure they are since the range of motion is so small.
John e weighted crunches are very similar to sit-ups, but try it. If it hurts, even a little bit, stop. The injury risk isn’t worth it.
@@anlu4043 I'm thinking that the hanging sit-ups, I forget what they are really called, seem like they might be a good option. I remember doing them in high school. Just hang from my knees, upside down, and then curl up to touch my chest to my knees, or as close as I could. It stretches out your spine and keeps everything pretty well lined up throughout the range of motion, or at least so it seemed. I also liked that you had such a long range of effective motion meaning my abs were being worked all the way through and more areas of the muscles were used because of this.
@@WhoWouldWantThisName Ab wheel rollout is actually one of the most complete core exercises.
@@haiguyse Thanks.
I get a shooting pain when I'm doing deadlifts so I guess that's not the way for me. Can someone help me? Been in chronic back pain for almost 10 years and I'm only 25 years old 😫
This is why Louie Simmons recommended reverse hypers
back extensions are a perfectly fine exercise for your spine at any age *if done correctly*, you are not supposed to hyperextend. the purpose of a back extension is to move the upper body, preferably with a weight in hand, through space, using the glutes and hamstrings. not low back flexion. they're commonly, and incorrectly, called hyperextensions. you don't hyperextend, your spine stays neutral. exercises done incorrectly don't count, as you said.
I agree and also deadlifts are literally the worst thing anyone can do if they have a bad back situps are way safer. I disagree with everything this guy just said
@@fallguy6196 you are demonstrably false. sit ups do not help your back pain, getting a stronger back will help your back pain. deadlifts are the safest way to build a stronger back as well as the most effective. if deadlifts cause you back pain you do not know how to deadlift.
@@frodothehobo9938 you misread what I said. I said deadlifts are NOT good when you have a bad back. I didn't say they don't make your back stronger. They are NOT good if you have a bad back. And sit ups absolutely strengthen your core and your back as well as alot of core excersizes all better than deadlifts
@@fallguy6196 i know what you said. I said its wrong. Sit ups do not strengthen your core. They may create a small amount of abdominal hypetrophy but in reality your "core" is made up of a bunch of muscles, obliques, abdominal wall, spinal erectors and pelvic floor. The primary function of these muscles is isometric contraction to stabilize the spine under load. Aka not flexion. Sit ups involve spinal flexion which both only involves the abs as opposes to the whole torso and teaches the wrong movement pattern. Deadlifts require the entire torso to be extremely rigid under load while the lats glutes hamstrings and quads hinge the hips. With all due respect you should open up a biomechanics textbook if you think sit ups are a useful exercise and deadlifts are bad for your back. That is simply untrue and basic observation of anatomy would quickly disprove your theory.
@@frodothehobo9938 To add to what you said, I would like to know what exactly is the functional purpose of sit-ups?
Back extensions are normally fine, however, they should be done passively and generally not actively unless isometrically as rippletoe mentions. However, there is an entire effective methods for some types of back pain that focus just on back extensions that is very very effective (McKenzie). In which after stabilization programs that add foundational lifts are done after. On the other hand generally, back extensions aren't so great with DDD or stenosis. So it kinda depends a lot. The back is complicated.
tbf McKenzie isn't *just* extensions - it just happens to be that extension is the thing that most commonly centralises symptoms.
What kind of people dislike this?
i mean i get that some people don't like rip
but i cant imagine people disagreeing with this statement.
well at least not real coaches
Getting old sucks, but it beats the alternative.
nailed it
Alternative?
@@VegetoStevieD Dying young.
@@luvr381 What's so great about shitting yourself on a hospital bed at 90?
Yeah. Back extension is not good for a bad back.
Love it
Eh. His view here is pretty myopic. Not every lot of LBP is going to be due to hyper mobility and requires specifically "stabilising". If the population he's talking about has benefited from squatting and deadlifting it's at least as likely it's due to increased tissue capacity as it is increased stability.
2:18 lmao. Good stuff!!
"The core" 😂😂😂
I’d like to see a press without back extension.🤨
I believe you're talking about flexion
I get where you coming from, but I was referring to the static position during pressing, where the back is extended under load, rather than the concentric movement.
If you're old and a movement causes chronic pain. DONT DO IT
As simple as that👏
Let me guess more squats and dead lifts....?
Ab roller?
A perfect alternative and a full core exercise too. It activates even the obliques to a large degree.
Yeah I did the 500lb deadlift like he suggests and ended up with a hernia.
And that proves what exactly?
Seems to me the sticking point of the press is the lower backie...cooorreeeer
The kchore🥴
You said the “c” word. I’m telling your mom.
McGill Big 3.
Dr McGill is a much better resource for back pain! Great reference Larry 👍
Hahahaha. You said "core". Hahaha.
Advising not to do back extensions in the presence of back pain is ill advised.do them before during and after your squats and deadlifts and reap the benefits.always be suspicious of dogma.even rips.
What are you talking about? Are you recommending supersetting squats/deadlifts with back extensions for people with back pain? Are you trolling?
5'10, 190lbs BW, 21 years old, 285lbs x6 squat, 365 x1 deadlift.
Funny how whenever I squatted in the past I would get constant morning back pain and just these last 4 days that I've tried those "silly" 5 minute ab workouts I finally feel relieved. Just BW stuff like front and side planks and some crunches, no situps.
I think this is for the older people with degenerative spines
I would have someone competent take a good look at your squat and deadlift form.
@@johnh6928 Passed 25, we all have degenerative spines.
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First
Do you have a scientific body of evidence to support this claim? Blanket statements like this really should be accompanied by evidence to support them. I get your reasoning but the evidence may support the use of both movements you say to avoid. Hell, there is a whole set of therapy based upon flexión or extension to relieve back pain. I’m not a big supporter of this protocol but it has more scientific evidence supporting it than you presented.
Actually Rip is right here. I work in rehab and sit-ups are pretty well known as a terrible exercise. Back extensions are at least not damaging. While I don't always agree with what Rip says, strengthening the back and core muscles through squats and deadlifts (performed correctly, not ego-lifting) will do a lot more for someone with back pain than many (if not most) other exercises. It's funny, there actually is not that much literature supporting sit-ups/extensions for improving back pain. Yoga certainly helps, and there is some research there, but how much of that research "proves" that it's yoga that worked when the sample of people in the research were completely sedentary beforehand? How many of these people would have simply improved by a strength-training or regular walking routine? Probably a lot of them. The research I've seen shows that the main culprits of back pain are sedentarism, long periods of sitting (such as long commutes), muscle weakness, and poor sleep hygiene.
There is an article by Stuart McGill you can find on google which investigates sit-ups high peak of compression on the lower back. There was a link between spinal compression and low back pain found in the studies. The McGill big 3 has helped me a lot personally. Before that I was doing a lot of flexion that, for me, made it worse. Stuart does specifically state though that he hates when people are diagnosed with "general back pain" since everyone's situation is different. He adds on to that and explains that not everyone with low back pain should be recommended the same treatment, because there are so many different type of back injuries with different set of restrictions in how to go about treating it.
@@TheAnvilMan I agree. I watched this episode because I do have a certain back pain or discomfort, though I don't think it is the sort of thing Rip is talking about here. I think mine is not due to disk wear or anything with my nerves but rather just muscle cramping. I have been in a couple car accidents that resulted in my muscles pulling my spine in a twisted fashion. I have noticed that usually it is just when I start to straighten up to fast that my lower back muscles cramp up like they are panicking. Then they relax and I can move around better and the soreness goes away. There's a bit more to it but essentially after hearing Rip talk about this it sounds like he is describing something else involving the disks and pads and probably a more constant and sharper pain. I find that for me stretching and more movement of my "core" seems to be good for it. Also I find that everything I do to strengthen my other areas related such as my hips, glutes, upper back, traps, lats, everything is also helpful.
So...your spine is degenerating and your advice is to compress it with hundreds of pounds of force? Okay...🙄🙄🙄
He didn't say that you have to destroy your spine with a lot of pounds and stress. I think he just said that just lift to strength the core and lower back, without ego lifting because it obviously will make it worse
Nice hair.
I agree that "the core" is not just doing abs and crunches but why would a program that is only emphasizing one of the three planes of motion (the SS program, and the sagittal plane specifically) be able to properly train the trunk of a human being and begin to achieve balance in the entire system?
Not really respecting the stuff this guy is preaching :-/
The core's primary purpose has absolutely nothing to do with active extension and flexion of the abs and lower back. Do you know what the purpose of them are? They exist purely to stabilize the pelvis by generating internal pressure which, among other things, is essential when lifting heavy. Without that core holding everything in, there would be no transmission of power from the legs to the shoulders. The tighter the core is and more capable it is to generate internal pressure, the more efficient that transmission of power is. Why do you think powerlifters wear belts in competition? The belt provides additional pressure to the core, and *directly* increases the lifter's maximum.
So much silly bs 🤷🏾♂️
Why would anyone take training advice from this dud he looks like he works out at Duncan doughnuts
Because he's strong. If you don't want to be as fat, do more conditioning.
@Adrian That's a terrible reason. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I don't think Rip knows much about personalized training or proper human movement training. Taking advice from this dude is like taking weight loss advise from a skinny person who starves themselves. IMO, of course ;)
Because he is the 🐐
@@PurplemonkeyHS I think i'm gonna take powerlifting advice from the guy who has like actually won prestigious powerlifting competitions, cheers.
@@PurplemonkeyHS he's a coach for 40+ years ...he was coached by bill starr and tommy suggs and he coached thousands of people ,hundrends of coaches are going by his methods ...but fine rip aint knows shit... go watch some athlean-x videos