So if it is easy for war to break out on a racially homogeneous continent, doesn't that imply that the conflict and violence will be _even worse_ when you introduce racial conflict into the mix? I'm not sure I see how that's supposed to be better!
No it is not true. You're also ignoring the progress that has been made in terms of conflict and violence and while ethnic tensions exist, that doesn't manifest itself into race wars or racal motivated wars. If anything ethnic diversity diminishes it in western society. Most "ethnic tensions" today in the West are tensions between cultures.
yeah....lets all pretend cute british girls are a serious immigration problem. its this kind of disingenuous dribble that is the reason these problems wont be solved in the best possible way. apparently if some of you have your way it will take the extreme measures that you pretend you against.
@@trentonmcclintock7836 She was for stripping people of their citizenship to kick them out. US law dictates that all people born on American soil are US citizens regardless of their parents status. Tara wants to edit the 14th amendment and apply that edit retroactively. She also talked about revoking citizenship of legal immigrants, but never got around to saying what criteria she would use to justify this revocation. She argued for kicking out legal immigrants and native born citizens that she doesn't like the look of, not kick out all illegals.
maneatingcheeze that reading of the 14th amendment is a bastardization. it was never intended to grant citizenship to every single person born on u.s. soil regardless of their parents status. having said that, going back and applying it retroactively is wrong imo. I don't think we should be kicking out any current citizens
>debate between Destiny and JF >Destiny slides the entire debate into watching a Tara Maccarthy video >Destiny starts strawmanning Tara Macarthy to avoid a debate on race realism
Dinky Winks JF and destiny agreed that her goal was to make the US whiter. She described her stances on immigration when asked on how to get out as many brown people as possible, and she wanted to change the neutralization process specifically to deport brown people (since that is her goal and that she wanted the methods to get neutralized selectively picked after her taste), so that she later could threaten them with violence. When destiny said that she wanted to deport groups of brown people with violence he was right.
All deportation of illegals is based on threats of violence. Same way all taxation is ultimately backed by threats of violence, and also any mild regulation. Should we open all borders then? Secondly, she openly stated that she believes in incentives and demographic shifts, not ridiculous extreme exclusions. Who has the authority on Tara Macarthy's views? Current Tara Macarthy, a two year old video of Tara Macarthy, or Destiny? Sorry, but when comes to the views of a person, I'll put what the person openly states before your strawman.
Tara : "My friends who are mexican intermingle and interbreed with white people, therefore they could possibly be considered white. " When you accidentally argue for multiculturalism while trying to talk about a pure white ethnostate.
JF: "Glad I could dispel the strawman built of Tara" Tara: "I want to get deport citizens and am pro-eugenics" Someone needs to teach JF what a strawman is.
Destiny just a tip from a law student you ceded way too much and perhaps it comes from being new to this issue but here are a couple of points to consider. 1) JF's claim that we are only recently removed from hundreds of thousands of years of separation is flatly false we left Africa merely 50,000 years ago which is literall y a second in genetics. 2) Genetic diversity and propensities do exist but that does not mean we can accurately tie anything to that diversity except for a few halotypic external traits. 3) This is a huge one, but the scientific consensus is firmly on your side all of the major scientific foundations including the AMA, scientific American and most publications support the idea that race is biologically fictitious in that we again can't tie anything other than external appearance and a few geographic adaptations to anyone group but those adaptations may be found in any population under the same conditions. For example, the SC anemia thing is present not only in subsaharan africans but in every racial group exposed to malaria over extended periods in our history. 4) The mainstream scientific claim is not that IQ isn't partly heritable, it is. However, the mainstream view is that there is no evidence that we can tie the heritability of IQ to race because of our lack of genetic separations per point one. There is a universal human distribution of education and the flynn effect goes a long way in showing IQ is way too reactive to be due to race iq www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/6/15/15797120/race-black-white-iq-response-critics. 5) to point four , twin studies merely demonstrate the truth of proposition 4, IQ is partly heritable but twin studies go no where in proving the giant link that we can extrapolate this to race. There are studies of German children who were black african american sons and daughters who grew up without racial animus or a concept of inferiority in good neighborhoods and surprise surprise the IQ gap mysteriously goes away. 6) the flynn effect 7) to reiterate destiny, read up on the mainstream literature on the scientific consensus about race and race-IQ and just nail it in whatever debate you are in. Mainstream science has mountains of data merely saying race isn't useful but really is just a proxy for genetic diversity. Essentially we are different but not different enough to warrant the categorization of racial groups. But I mean this was the norm throughout human history. The greeks, phoenicians, carthaginians, romans, egyptians, berbers, levantians, persians, babylonians, byzantines, ottomans, asians had no concept of race as we have now, they were incredibly multicultural empires composed of thousands of ethnic groups that stretched from upper saharan african down to places like chad and all the way into asia. Race was only concocted when white people finally got their turn at the top of the food chain after the end of thousands of years of non germanic white dominance.
1) 50k years ago is not necessarily a short time in genetics. Google the "domesticated red fox" for an experiment where massive genetic changes happen in just a few generations. 2) There are many obvious examples we can point out to show that there are significant differences within humanity: tibetans who have evolved adaptations to help them get oxygen at high environments, African Pygmies who are almost certainly short due to genetic differences, and the recent evolution in a few populations to digest milk. 3) The stated consensus is politically manipulated because it is highly politically incorrect to state that race is a useful construct. 4) A trait being reactive doesn't mean that the genetic influence can be ignored. For example, height is largely a function of nutrition but that doesn't mean that the variance in height within a group with similar nutrition is not due to genetic differences. 5) The german study is a well known outlier. There may in fact be few differences in IQ between races but that study isn't definitive. We'll probably know more in a few years. 6) See point 4 7) Identity has often been conflated with genetic population groups, in a world before constant and significant mass travel clear concepts of genetic population groups probably weren't likely to form. A clear conception of race coalesced during the age of discovery, exactly when people were able to observe populations on a continental scale. The recent idea that the concept of "race" is morally indefensible has clearly had an impact on the stated "scientific consensus", which is clearly not followed in practice evidenced by the fact that medical advice often varies depending on race.
1)Forceful Domestication is not the same as accidental genetically drifting populations who still maintain intermixing due to conquest and trade. The claim was not that things can't be purposely altered quickly merely that it takes millions of years of isolation for proper sub populations to develop naturally into things that can be said to be races proper 2) So you are saying if you dropped a group of white or black people in the Tibetan mountains they wouldn't develop the same oxygen efficiency are tibetans so special that they alone would have the trait ? Are any other groups capable of developing shortness based on genetic mutations? Obviously any group can develop a genetic quirk and it has absolutely nothing to do with racial differences. Obviously they would because thats kind of how life works at a basic level. Those adaptations have nothing to do with race and you are making an environmental argument. 3) With all due respect it is highly convenient that when the scientific consensus and mountains of data don't agree with you it is "political" we have a lot of scientists and researches in the field struggling with this concept because; a) it defies definition in a succinct scientific way, why am I considered black when the vast majority of my genes are jewish and european? b) at the margins the concept breaks down into sloppy halo-typical speculation about who is which race c) modern genetics shows how vastly similar we are d) researchers cannot isolate any set of traits to race accurately enough to predict anything because the concept is more cultural than it is scientific. e) www.scientificamerican.com/article/race-is-a-social-construct-scientists-argue/ 4) You are saying the same thing I am saying....Again, No one is making the claim that things like personality and IQ aren't partly genetically influenced what the consensus is demonstrating is that we can't link that heritability to race in any meaningful way. This is in line with your point 5 and you in no way demonstrated a race-IQ link. 5) Never said it was definitive but there are studies where stigma and poverty is removed and lo and behold a 15 point gap disappears between the races which is the gap between whites and blacks. Just as an anecdote I grew up African American in the upper class in a multi ethnic suburb and ended up at a tier 1 law school and test well above the average in pretty much everything it makes a huge difference having such an environment. 6) You are factually confused, the flynn effect is not saying IQ can't be heritable across a human mean, the Flynn effect is saying that huge shifts in IQ happen too fast (like over one generation) for us to say that race is driven primarily by genetic evolution. If the flynn effect was incorrect then we would expect changes in IQ to happen over millions of years not one generation or two. 7) Ths consensus has been the norm for all of human history and white european racism is an abberation, nearly every empire recognized the absurdity of regarding humans as separate races and it had nothing to do with them being "politically correct" they still held slaves and could be quite cruel but it was on perceived cultural superiority and ideas about might making right. Are you saying the romans didn't believe in race in the way we did because they were PC in the same way? By the way calling the scientific consensus merely because of PC does nothing to overcome all the data that claim is based on nor does it make sense. In order to get peer review you are going to only succeed by good methodology and sound conclusions that can be replicated not disguising some normative claim as science. No, these things got discovered by actual modern science and genetic testing, and the like you need to be arguing against that not making a motives based argument.
Destiny is new to this issue. I realized that when he referenced some months ago Sam Harris' disgusting podcast where Harris tried to give credibility to Charles Murray's bullshit racist Bell Curve nonsense. Destiny talked about that podcast episode in the positive which shows he doesn't know to much about this topic. "Race realism" is pure bunk and can easily be destroyed if one has basic knowledge in the topic. White supremacists bank on the fact that the people they are speaking to know about as little about these topics because that is the only way they can recruit people. Anyone else can debunk these clowns left and right. For example, take that obnoxious white supremacist piece of shit JF. He says during this stream that it doesn't matter if you classify human beings into 5 or 5 hundred races, race still exists. Except that by acknowledging there is no way you can name how many supposed "human races" there are it proves that race is nothing more than a social construct. Destiny didn't point this out because he is not well experienced in this topic to call out the bullshit from white supremacists. Fact is, there is no such thing as a "white race". There were people that were not classified white at one time that "became" white later on. All of this is motivated for no other reason than political purposes not scientific ones. It's the white supremacists that need for it to be based in some sort of fact because without it they have little to go on and not that they have anything to go on in the first place. Fuck white supremacy.
Great Post Running man, absolutely true... Anyone seasoned in this debate would have jumped all over that 5 races or 600 hundred races point because that is the whole argument if race is such a nebulous undefined concept that we can't accurately pick a number of races based on biology and categorize every human into them then the whole point is irrelevant. 600 races is tantamount to saying race is just a proxy for genetic diversity and isn't accurate at all as a phenomenon. I just wish he would have waited and really read up on the consensus and came ready to reject the descriptive claims. It seems like youtube has gotten so right wing that there is this group think that race realism is just a fact. People like Warski make the classic 17th century Kantian Racialist mistaker of confusing our variance with such substantial differences to constitute race. It is a really simple concept to debunk like you said but you have to read up on it. Also this is as settled a debate as anyother faux debate out there like climate change and evolution. Scientists soundly reject the idea of races as anything but proxies for ethnicity. Any group can develop pretty much any other adaptation that any other group has given the same environmental conditions because we are all too closely related to be different sub species.
It really bothers me how many of destiny’s legitimate questions were dismissed. Like I thought it was an interesting point that he asked why things like height don’t determine race, and only skin color does. But JF just responded with condescension. Really frustrating.
It's because these aren't actual debates. These people are morons. They simply never thought about this. And they refuse to do so. And they won't admit it. And the people listening to them are even more stupid. They won't even notice.
Have not yet watched the whole thing, but that sounds like a very silly observation from what you summarized. Skin colour isn't the only thing that distinguishes races, it's just the one employed most often by average joes to distinguish race because it's the most obvious trait that is easily observable upon meeting someone for the very first time. Hopefully Destiny does another stream with just JF, I am not particularly fond of many of these other participants.
zomge it's due to centuries of prejudice that humanity, especially America, isn't ready to move past yet. Conservatives want to bring everything back to the 80 or even as early as the 50s (where people were incredibly racist compared to now), warts and all, without taking into account societal, cultural, and technological progress and how that impacts everything. Before you ask i brought up conservatives because as much as the SJWs (real ones not some random moderate liberal) bash white people, conservatives are by and large far more vitriolic and widespread with their prejudice against anyone who isn't white or Christian
+Rational Manimal i agree... They brought up sickle cell without realizing that it is just another biological response based on an environmental occurrence. There are actually large groups of Asian people from tropical areas who also tend to have sickle cell. Sickle cell is a HUMAN response to the prevalence of the Malaria virus in a region. Skin color is also a HUMAN response to UV exposure.
Lou Heisenburg Doesn't matter what the average joe sees a race, because that is another discussion entirely. Race realists think that race is a meaningful biological concept.
1:09:10 Tara:"It's in your blood. What your ancestry has done, you are more capable of being able to do." Tare mixing reality with anime. One for all face looking ass XD. (My Hero Academia)
Balatobieyo I know that’s a lie because I barely have the stamina ride it cowgirl style for more than a minute...let alone pick cotton in the smoldering heat for hours with no wage
53:56 Tara ignorantly says "ethnostates were the norm throughout human history. Multiculturalism is a modern experiment that has been happening since the 1960s onward..." I refer you to the Romans, Phoenicians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians, Mongols, and Chinese. None of those were ethnostates. All of them, at their zenith, were the most multicultural states of their time. Oh she's pro-eugenics for whites. Fascinating. This is why free speech, regardless your views, is good. It is good to hear these people articulating what they really think outside of their edited videos. Really helps put things in context. Like Geek points out he thought one way about Tara after seeing her two minute edited video, but once she spoke off the cuff it changed his opinion of her message.
The argument isn't purely about the founding fathers. We can tell by immigration policy that was around from the 1920's onward that the US was an already established ethno-state.
+ Sub Roy His entire spiel was just dumb. In the time the founding fathers created the United States had English migrants but also other European immigrants like Dutch people en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Americans#Early_exploration en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Americans Germans, Swedes, Huguenot (French) Tara`s argument was that the laws of 1920 cemented who was considered white and who wasn't
JF was there to debate Destiny and Destiny purposefully slid the debate into a completely unrelated topic, and then started misrepresenting and insulting Tara to replace his debate about race. So, quit the butthurt, JF intervened far less than I wish he had.
@Ramses77 I come from a nation of "stormfags". Anybody with any pre-1965 opinions on race (such as all of my ancestors) are "stormfags" according to you children.
@Creslin321 They were fought and beaten by ethnostates of themselves. Churchill believed in "Keep Britain white" as a political slogan. Why do you associate ethnonationalism with Germany and not Britain or the US? It applied to all three.
Creslin321 The UK _had_ no other races in it, it was already fully pure. The US _did_ have segregation and Jim Crow as well as the US literally rounding up hundreds of thousands of people based on their race (Japanese) during the war. If the US had lost, their enemies would easily spin this into _"you hate Japanese, you rounded them up so you could kill them!"_ and they'd have no defence. All your understanding of WW2 came from what the winners of that conflict told you, not what was actually happening.
_it's far different from what the Germans did_ It is exactly the same as what the Germans did actually. The Germans sadly had no ability to form a counter-narrative after the war given that their cities had been destroyed and their women raped into submission. The lies that were introduced at the Nuremberg show trials now constitute the "facts" that people like you still believe to this day. The brunt of it is that it is okay when the Allies round up people based on their ethnicity, but when the Germans do it, it is evil and wrong and borne of imperial bloodlust. This is just _choosing_ to interpret the same actions in one scenario as good and the other as bad. It's conditioning. You have been conditioned.
this girl is a complete meme. goes from "what the founding fathers wrote" to "what the founding fathers may have first drafted" to "written in 1920s" in 10 seconds
Destiny was obviously acting like a petulant manchild towards Tara because JF whooped his ass in the debate. So, JF told him several times to stop throwing his petty insults and to quit being disingenuous. It so obvious but I guess Destiny fans are so caught up in his Talmudic tactics to not notice.
"do you want tana to join the chat to explain her beliefs"-moderator "Im sure jf can explain her beliefs better than she can"-destiny "I'm sure jf can tell you"-tana "What she means"-jf
It's also interesting how one of these dudes talked about how the Caucasian majority needs to be maintained because once your a minority in a country it sucks, yet they won't acknowledge that a lot of the traits that they don't like in black people are a result of them being a minority and discriminated against in this country
@Butter Brickle Thats not how affirmative action works. The idea is that if you have two people of equal qualification, and one is from a disadvantaged class in society the one who is disadvantaged should be picked over the one who wasn't because the former had to go through a lot more to get to the same level.
Barabbas Rift because a lot of black people were born here for many generations of slaves that were brought here out of no will of their own. The minorities in the US have a lot more in common culturally with eachother than they would with some other country they have never lived in. Minorities who travel here have opportunities that they are looking for and having racism as an obstacle means that we should get rid of the racism, not the people who are being marginalized. Moving somewhere else solves no real issues in this context
"For 10'000 years we've worked well as Europeans" uhhhh 2 of the most deadliest conflicts in human history were fought on the European continent by Europeans. I don't even need to go into all the death and destruction the thousands of years before that.
The "1% of white Americans owned slaves in the South" argument is false. The unit of ownership back then was family. It wasn't just the one father's slave, it was the families slave. The fact is in 1860 32% of white families owned slaves in the states which seceded from the Union. In some states in the South there were more slaves than freedmen. Even if it were true that only 1% of whites owned slaves, that would still multiply over generations, as their children and children of the nonslavers interbred, meaning that most white Americans have some degree of slave owner's blood.
@Christian Garcia 49% of Mississippi's white population owned slaves, most slave states averaged at around 25-30% of their white populations being slave owners, with the lowest state being Delaware at 3%. A simple google search can give you the statistics.
@Christian Garcia Here are proofs of my statement. Just because the numbers you have (with no source btw) might not add up in your mind doesn't mean that these statistics, which were taken at the time, aren't true. www.history.com/news/5-myths-about-slavery slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/09/slavery-myths-seven-lies-half-truths-and-irrelevancies-people-trot-out-about-slavery-debunked.html www.snopes.com/news/2019/08/07/percent-of-whites-owned-slaves/
@Christian Garcia That's true, however that is how they classified ownership in those days, not to mention that it doesn't really matter whether or not your name is on the papers, you can still order the slave around like you own him, because the whole family does.
@@imperator692 Sound like bullshit bro. Owning a slave would require a whole complex infrastructure that most people didn’t have. It’s not like owning a dog buddy.
@Christian Garcia It's not outdated, it was the measurement of the day. The plantation owner's family would collectively use the slaves. You can't just point to one guy to shoulder the blame for slavery, it was a family business. The father of a slave owning family employed his wife, sons and daughters, as well as cousins, uncles and other relatives to run the plantation, and therefore those relatives deserve to be counted. Imagine if we were at the Council of Nuremberg, deciding the fate of the Nazi government, and you argued that actually Hitler's generals, war cabinet, propagandists, senior SS Officers and the architects of the Holocaust shouldn't be charged for war crimes because technically Hitler was their leader, and they were just people in his employ. If we applied your logic to the Nazis then none of the people who did the Holocaust should have been charged because ultimately they did what they did for Hitler. But of course that's stupid. Hitler's war cabinet deserves just as much of the blame as Hitler, and the slave owning overseers of the plantations deserve as much of the blame as their patriarchs.
@@spencer5028 yeah lol, he kinda gets his ass kicked by JF. this debate kinda exposes how destiny likes to straw man his opponents (maybe not deliberately).
The immigration laws of the 1920s codified into law the answer to Destiny's (frankly stupid) question. His mischaracterization that certain European ethnicities were not considered white is incorrect BECAUSE all European ethnicities were allowed to immigrate when only whites were allowed to immigrate.
@@pgtv14 they may have been allowed to immigrate but they still weren't considered white. America has a well-recorded history of Irish and Italian discrimination on the notion that they were dark foreigners
@joe smith Interesting. Autism's cause is to this day very unknown though. We don't know if it's a birth defect, or anything else-- we don't know what it is in the first place. But I digress. What's wrong with having down's syndrome? You say it's a birth defect, but why is that a bad thing in itself? And yes, vaccines' benefits by far outweigh their risks.
Lloyd Rhodes-Brandon. There appears yo be a link between certain areas of adipose tissue (being fat) and autism. Interesting read honestly. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3813395/
Ok at 29 the french dude makes a big mistake. Twin studies and heritabilaty by extetion does not mean that something is not environmental. In fact IQ heritabilaty suggests it being largy environmental. it goes from 64% in young children into well in the 80% for adults. This suggest a positive environmental feedback loop. Combine this with the fact that heritabilaty once againis depending on economic standing. He shows a very basic and frankly biased knowledge of the subject. He went in with the idea that IQ must be genetic and found the evidence he needed.
No all heretabilaty does is show how heritable is within a certain environment. Ok let just as an example to make this really clear for you we as a country have a tradition of feeding blond people far more greasy food. So blond people are far more likely to get fat then others. Being blond is highly heritable so any calculated heretabilaty of fatness would be to. Now sure this is a really far fetched example but it does show the point. Simply because heretebilaty is high does not mean something does not have strong environmental impacts nor does it suggest that the differences that are highly heritiable can't be environmental. A twin study can compensate for small differences in things like child rearing but will never compensate for over arching cultural trends. Higher IQ means better at math means you are pushed towards math more means you train that part of your brain as such get better at math and your IQ goes up. This is a very likely positive feedback loop no twin study could ever deconfound .Maybe instead of diving into the minutia you should have spent some time looking at the test you are actually doing. Also as i have already pointed out heredabilaty is already socio-economically dependent with it being less heritable when you are poorer. All heretabilty will ever given you is the importance of genetic factors within the specific group in which it is calculated. It is made purely a measurement for within a group and what an environment does to differing genes it at no point claims to say how important those genes are on the whole considering they can't decouple them from the greater environment.
That was quite a long paragraph for having such weak arguments. >Ok let just as an example to make this really clear for you we as a country have a tradition of feeding blond people far more greasy food. So blond people are far more likely to get fat then others. So, does US have a tradition of diverging the IQ of twins that have 50% similarity while trying to keep the IQ of twins that are identical similar? >Also as i have already pointed out heredabilaty is already socio-economically dependent with it being less heritable when you are poorer. If only we could have some sort of CONTROL to study and see what the real heritability is. I guess we'll never know. /s Basically, you are trying to "win the argument" but you don't actually give a fuck about anything that you are writing.
The point of the example is to point out the fact that high heritablilaty does not mean there are no large environmental factors. Also i have already in that fucking statement giving a cultural bias that increases IQ heretabilaty. When people are better at math in early life they are generally more insensitivity to further pursue that talent further training that part of their brain and as such increasing their IQ. Simply because i use a example in which it is blatant doesn't mean it's always that obvious. Secondly there is no such thing as real heritability. If we where all held in caves and then given an IQ test where all gonna score the same because none of us can read. Heretability is only ever true for the group and environment for which is calculated. It is simply impossible to control for something nigh on omnipresent like the prevailing culture. Unless of course you do put people in caves or the woods at which point their environment would be so different the number would be pointless for any human in any normal situation.
Your arguments are just far fetched nit picks. >"there are environmental factors" Yes, people are genes expressed in an environment. Race realists never claimed otherwise. >"Secondly there is no such thing as real heritability. " Yes, those tests are about the impacts of genes withing populations, they are statistically relative to the population. That changes nothing. >"It is simply impossible to control for something nigh on omnipresent like the prevailing culture." Yes. But it is not impossible to control for genetic similarity, making your point redundant.
How is is an intrinsic problem with your interpretation of heritabilaty a nitpick? Ok you know how a gave you an example of the blond people getting fed more greasy things? How does simply having a control for genetic similarity ever compensate for the fact that it's cultural? Genuinely if you think that can and is regularly done explain it to me only with twin studies no forcing people to die there hair from birth or something that would take very intricate knowledge and potentially unethical behavior . Also let's assume we have plants and in good soil lot's of space they grow well and their height is really heritable. Now lets shove them all in a tiny box that completely constrains their growth really early on like way smaller then even the smallest natural one. Of course in this population heretability would be 0. Which is the real herritibilaty?
@IcantSeeReplies no, frustated white nationalists who want to have hope of ever getting their dicks wet follow her with hope she'll bonk them, or that any women will have the same ideas and bonk them
2:12:50 Every biologist is against you because by the time they got to that point in their careers, they're sick and tired and of having to deal with racist pseudoscience. JF has no serious credibility in his field according to his fellow neuroscientists, but he keeps going at this anyway.
The Irony is race denial is far more in line with creationism, except it's less internally consistent because race deniers don't typically deny natural selection in other animals. Just humans, and just in the realm of cognition. Obvious political stance is obvious.
+Panarchy Your own political stance is not just obvious, but stated. You want race realism for no other purpose than to try to 'maintain European dominance' over the world. This isn't science. Also I love how you compare creationism to this, when your own views are actually more pathetic than creationists and use the same methodology. Every time some kind of scientific development happens, creationists try to use something from it to somehow prove their own goals even when it does nothing but irk the actual scientists doing the work. Alfred Binet, the creator of the IQ test, spent most of his life trying to show people that his IQ test was never intended as a test of 'static' or 'general' intelligence, but was purely a measure to get the strengths and weaknesses of someone's academic ability so they can be worked on. Racists of the time used it for something that he never, EVER intended it for. That's race realism in a nutshell. Taking real science and twisting it beyond recognition.
@WWAJD "Imagine believing that there is no genetic variation in intelligence..." I suppose you WOULD have to imagine that since nobody argued that in the first place.
"According to Alt Righters "Straw man = any argument that proves me wrong". to be fair that is most people's definition of a straw man. You can have poor or faulty analogies in a discussion without them being a straw man, but why address the core of an argument when you can focus on the pedantry of logical fallacies
Race realism is a word like alt right. It use to be the word racist, the other one is a new word for what we called fascist. Now you change the words and they aren't as charged anymore. You are free to go ahead with a racist or fascist talking point.
He will only accept the proof that goes the way of his hypothesis. It's confirmation bias more than anything, which is rather unacceptable from a "so-called" scientific mind.
He isn't french. Don't ever compare France to Quebec. Quebec is an American butchering of the french culture and people. They are just Canadians speaking a french dialect
@@suzukisixk7 you guys have zero solutions. You literally want to either kill us or mass deportation if we refuse you will kill us. I mean what do you want to about it? We have plenty of solutions but you don't even care. Just want them to go to Africa or die or both.
Completely agree Ragniirox, my original comment was kind of making fun of her use of anecdotes rather then specifically being about illegal hatsellers. (Anyone who watched that part at least probably came to the same conclusion). I'm not defending those illegal hatsellers, if they are indeed there illegaly they shouldn't be.
Lol the biologists on RUclips aren’t “scared” of Jeff, they just don’t find him legitimate so they’re not going to wast their time listening to his garbage. 🤣
Oh thanks. I've seen this kind of stuff before, but didn't know it had a name. I had to search the terms "dog whistling Olympics" which came up with "dog-whistle politics".
Dog whistling is not an actual thing. Jeez man, I feel like we debunked that "dog whistlin" shit back when it was still Atheists debunking Christians Me eating bread is not a "dog whistle" towards the existence of Peanutbutter.
@MrPinbert Are you sure? Seems like you're just saying "it doesn't exist", and using a false analogy (bread=peanut butter). Now I could see how the identification of such "dog whistles" could be inaccurate some of the time, but that doesn't necessarily mean those coded phrases don't exist. For instance Kent Hovind uses several in this debate ruclips.net/video/-rhHzwEjS5c/видео.html Most of what Kent says there is overtly appealing to an audience of ignorant folk. Like when he asks for plain wording which makes him appear like a "normal Joe". But he brought up Sponge Bob (a veiled appeal to children), and Louis L'amour books (a veiled appeal to country folk who read cow boy literature). Right there are two obvious dog whistles if I've ever seen one. Both meant to humanize Kent to a certain demographic, and dehumanize his opponent to the same folk. All his poor interlocutor had was science which sounds like black magic to Kent's target audience who are not versed in such technical terminology. I could see how specific identifications of "dog whistles" could be false flags, but in general I think many that can be identified are real. There is a psychology to them much like advertising. Like how Santa Claus in Coke commercials appeals to the nostalgia of a target audience. There is a very obvious coded message there in the form of an emotional trigger.
You can dispute with me, that's fine. Nowadays the only people that will use the term "dog whistle" are Mainstream Media Pundits, because they know that most of their audience wont actually do any research on what the term means.
I'm not sure why you let him get away with saying something like all greatest inventions came from white ethno states. It's categorically false and exactly why this reductive line of argumentation gets us no where. Time/creations are fluid, we don't take a look at the people responsible for .mp3 formatting and say omg, look... they created computers and electronics in general. Each creation lends to more creations. Gun powder -> Canon -> Musket -> Assault rifle. Before we could even say "white civilization" we would need to ask ourselves, what is "white"? Then we would also have to look at what influenced that. e.g. Etruscan influence in Rome. Had that influence not existed, where would Rome have gone? This is all hyperreductive, and while I appreciate the idea of talking about things. This is the danger of RUclips media.
@Johnny Cassette It's not though. Like not even close, if it's anti white to say white people or rather Western Civilization didn't invent all our modern appliances then it's clear to me that biases cloud your judgment because that's an extremely delusory claim to make.
ABOUT TIME. FUCK. I need a higher frequency of debates, I was starting to get in a heavy withdrawal. Please Steven I ain't playin anymore Destiny, this is a muthafuckin stick up. Give me the debates and nobody gets meme'd
JF is wrong about the twin studies thing. He says that through twin studies that feature monozygotic and dizygotic twins, you are able to determine heritability. That's correct. That does *not* mean, however, that you can piece out the percentages of gene influence and environmental influence; that's BIG non-sequitur. Heritability is a statistic used to measure how much genetic differences between people influence phenotypic differences. That doesn't mean that these phenotypic differences come from genes. If personality, for example, has a heritability of 0.7, that doesn't mean that 70% of your personality is genetic and 30% is environment; it's much more nuanced that that. That 0.7 heritability means that genetic differences account for a high amount of responsibility for your personality. Heritability can also change without genes changing whatsoever. That's incredibly dishonest of him.
You seem to be contradicting yourself, twice in one post. You say “heritability is a statistic that measures how much genetic differences influence phenotypic differences,” then say “that doesn’t mean these phenotypic differences come from genes.” Huh? If differences in genetics “influence” differences in phenotypes, then in what sense are the phenotypic differences not coming from the genes? I’m not saying 100% of the difference is caused by genes, of course. But your statement basically boils down to “Just because differences in A influence differences in B, that does not mean the differences in B are influenced by differences in A.”
@First name last name actually if you study history you'll learn that circa 1492 the europeans invaded. and while the anglos were the most racist and rarely ever mixed with anyone, the spaniards were less racist, and they did mix. that's why most modern day americans are a mix of american, european and african. and i'm ok with my african and european blood, that doesnt make me any less american than anyone else.
**Judge** : Mr Warski you are guilty of- **Warski** : one sec. we got a superchat from FlatEarther69, he says ‘Warski’s not guilty and Destiny is shorter than my rug’. Ok back to you judge.
Africa was doing just fine before the Europeans showed up, so was the rest of the world. Material goods =/= happiness, nor does technology means automatically good if not harnessed wisely to advance the human condition, I.e sustainably and fairly.
@IcantSeeReplies In the near future(couple decades) they will have the fastest growing economy. It will be similar to how China industrialized. Yes there are a bunch of problems in Africa, but a lot of data suggest the continent is going to explode socially, economically, and technologically.
Destiny, I was encouraged not to like you by some of the super far leftists, but after listening to you actually speak and debate with people, I think I found a new favorite content creator. I think you are 100% on point, and I WISH I had your ability to articulate and debate.
@@KJW-js9bv Probably that he's not far left enough. Same with the Alt-right disowning their own because they're not far right enough. The growing divisiveness isnt just between left/right but the in-group fighting on each side.
I think that the idea that we should exclude certain racial groups based on a tendency towards lower iqs is extremely bizarre because if the point was to raise the average iq of the country, wouldn't it just be easier to just exclude people based on solely low iq? Why even introduce race into the question to begin with?
Thinking Mouse then why don't they all i see is a butch of bitching and moaning about these different folks around me and how they desperately want a safe space if i truly despised all the different races in the US i would leave but even if were to go to Africa there would still be Arabs whites and asians id still have to share land with and the west pretty much lives off Africa's resources just like the rest of the world so this Africans for the africans therapy is bullshit just like Europeans for europeans and asia for the asians
Tirrell Murray That's why they want an ethostate. Because there is no place right now where they can move and live as sole population (or close to that). I don't really know enough about what these people think but some seem to think that the issue of moving people around won't be an issue. The reason for this is due to the belief that all races inherently want to live excluded from each other when no other factors are affecting their decision making. I don't remember the dude (he's not in this video) but he's the one who pronounces white "hwhite". He basically suggested that a realistic solution would be to make some states in America white/black etc. only, but maintain most states as open for everyone. And he believes that freedom of association is eventually going to make the normal states non existent as people freely relocate to live with people of their race. They are very heavy on the fact that there are racial separatists who aren't white.
Tirrell Murray Ryan fault doesn't shun trade (from what I know). He just doesn't want to see a bunch (I guess the standard is 93% white since he wanted the demographics to be like Denmark) of non-whites in his city, country, military and electorate.
Also it really irks me that these ethnostaters say that all of the states of the past were ethnostates when the very concept of an ethnicity hasn't existed until a few centuries ago
The best parts of this whole video are just when the discussion starts getting heated and moving towards the actual substance of the debate, Andy jumps in with "HEY GUYS JUST WANTED TO TELL CHAT SOMETHING COMPLETELY POINTLESS AND MAKE SURE YOU GUYS REALIZE I'M AUTISTIC SO I GUESS I'LL GO ON ABOUT THAT FOR FIVE MINUTES AND NOW THAT YOU'VE HAD SOME TIME TO THINK JF OR TARA YOU CAN GO AHEAD WITH YOUR ARGUMENTS THANKS BACK TO YOU GUYS"
I don’t think refugees and immigrants belong to Europe but then she said she wants African Americans to go back to their ancestral homelands and I was like “Dude, their ancestral homeland is America”
I'm not saying IQ isn't a real metric, but I am always extremely skeptical whenever I hear people bring up IQ comparisons across nations. The ones I've looked into so far don't seem to have a very concrete methodology for deriving IQ, and instead rely on approximations using stats such as literacy rates. Any nation having an average of IQ of 70 means the majority of the population would have trouble formulating words and taking care of themselves.
Which nation has an average IQ of 70 where the population doesnt have trouble formulating words? (this is actually a question with 2 separate factors and isnt meant to imply anything)
actually, i just looked at the list... i would imagine that most of the countries at 70 or below would have a population where most people have trouble formulating words...and all of them seem to be in Africa. Is your argument that they are claiming something to be the average IQ... but are actually measuring for something independent of IQ?
@@nikkiclarke133 Let's take Ethiopia as an example. An average IQ of 70 doesn't seem like an accurate measurement based on things we can observe about their country. The average Ethiopian does not show to be mildly mentally impaired to the point where they cannot speak in complete sentences or take care of their own body.
@@KoldAsFire I think it is possible that the Ethiopians we typically see do not seem to have mental issues... but that there may be a larger population who are typically not advertised. I will say that it really surprised me to see Haiti on that list... Granted... ive only met 4ish people from there... but all of them were able to speak 4+ languages... and i am told that this is typical of Haitians just based on their geographical location... I wonder if an IQ exam is able to calculate something like this... as i see this as an extremely intelligent trait...
@@nikkiclarke133 I don't think it's a question of which group is advertised. I don't think Addis Abada would have skyscrapers and highways if the surrounding average population didn't have some level of abstract thinking, which would be impossible with an average IQ of 70. Mind you Ethiopia is only one example. Another question I always have when people cite these stats in debates such as these is why does the lower half of the IQ curve span so far across countries but the upper half to seem to span as far? What I mean by this is if there are some countries with average IQs of 70 and below, why are there none with averages of 130 and above?
WHOLY SHIT HER HYPOCRACY!! She just said she wanted to kick people who "illegally naturalized" through marriage and stuff when she is literally doing just that. That is as conservative republican as one can get. Take advantage of an opportunity and then try to burn that bridge down once you have crossed it.
"So uh, I'm definitely not in favor of an ethnostate. But uh Destiny, do you think that uh, like, we shouldn't like, uh, talk about racial differences?" God Andy asks this same brain dead question 3 times in this debate
@Daniel afg No, not really. Obviously, the boer is African and whatever "more African" means. From what I know, they have been born and raised there for a long time. If you think a black person born in the US is somehow "more African" then all you are looking at is physical traits that the majority of that population has. Do you think a black US citizen will have more in common with a white US citizen or more in common with any black citizen from any country in Africa? So silly. It does not have to do with "racial stock" and has more to do with an inferiority complex or some similar hatred/prejudice that's rooted in them. Other wise, why would they care or say those things? They are projecting their own complications on an entire country that is separate to them. You heard what they said. Usually, their whole idea is an "ethnic homeland" to keep countries of their "original" races. The United States was never an "ethnic homeland" for white people. They are pandering to that racist US audience which is a big market right now. I don't think it's intrinsic in them to be racist or any other behavioural problem, I'm not stupid. I think they both could have self reflection and fix their internal racial issues and so could any type of racist. It's sad that they peddle their own internal problems to vulnerable, confused, young, or gullible people. It's deeper than caring about what race is in another country just because they look kind of similar to them. That's stupid to begin with.
Black people are American and are an integral part of American culture. Matter of fact, the world copies black music from jazz, hip hop, blues, rock n roll. So this girl doesn't like America she shouldn't move here.
Watching a few years later Kraut has really upped and changed his video making game. He doesn't mention anyone at all in his videos, he just does documentaries on certain topics and he really does them well. His video on how pre-war Japan turned towards it's weird form of ultra- nationalism is one of my favourite videos of all time.
When did JF become so dishonest?? He used to be really insightful and would _actually_ listen, but it seems like he jumped off the deep end. I wonder if he even realizes that he's destroying his credibility by being so dishonest.
Avenger He has gotten too much attention from the alt righters, because of his intelligence, education and participation. Now he has to carry the weight of other people's stupidity. One thing you have to consider is that none of his statements in this video is incompatible with his old videos. He did say that he disagreed on Tara mcarthys governmental structure, as he is a ancap. And while having some nasty rhetoric, he was honest when you pined him down, for example when he asked about what groups Tara wanted to protect, and JF awnsered race in the end.
ruclips.net/video/F663p9sxprg/видео.html His credibility been gone brother. I'll just leave this here, in case you want to hear someone go crazy white nationalist on stream.
When did JF start becoming dishonest in your estimation? The second he started talking about evolution in humans and you found it to clash with you ideological assumptions?
It's incredible to me that people look at the USA being the strongest country on the planet while simultaneously being the among the most (if not the most) ethnically & culturally diverse countries on the planet and then assuming that these can't possibly be related.
Race realists can't come up with a scientific definition of "race" that has any meaning, but say it's a real biological thing. When someone can show the genetic barrier between "races" they'll win an award in science
If I show you a colour that's between red and violet, but you can't be confident enough to say it's either, does that mean red or violet don't exist because you can't clearly define their boundaries? You conclusion would be that there are no colours at all, and that all of them are part of a big colour continuum. Colour divisions would be pointless then. Again, if I take a population like say, Tatars, who are kinda in between Whites and Mongoloids, or the Mediterranean population, who combine Semites with Whites, does that mean those are proof that Whites, Asians and Semites don't exist? If so, then Black Lives Matters would be meaningless as well, since the concept of "Black" is untrue to begin with.
fuck me, as a daca recipient, blue collar worker who pays taxes, and was completely raised as an american. the shit these guys say makes me fume. props to destiny for dealing with this shit like every week.
Political JAZZ At gunpoint? America, i live here i plan to live my life here. But thats a hypothetical i would realistically just not choose sides, i have family there and their deaths would fuck me up.
"Only 1% of Americans were slave owners." -- the percent is actually 10-15%. The 1% in the north and 5% in the south statistic comes from dividing the number of slave owners to the entire population (includes babies, toddlers, women, elderly, and all those who couldn't own slaves in the first place). The 10-15% comes from dividing the number of slave owners by the number of men who own property and could afford to have slaves.
Sickle cell anemia like destiny said is a genetic disease but it is not resticted to people of dark skin color or people living in the sub saharan region. Just like the genetic defect called thalassemia which is very wide spread among southern italians, it is not as deadly as sickle cell anemia. But thalassemia has also developed itself in response to fight malaria
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
“For tens of thousands of years we have been working together as a group of Europeans”. Have you even looked at european history???
So if it is easy for war to break out on a racially homogeneous continent, doesn't that imply that the conflict and violence will be _even worse_ when you introduce racial conflict into the mix? I'm not sure I see how that's supposed to be better!
The Greeks and the Romans considered northern Europeans low IQ.
AugustusPugin no. It doesn't imply that at all
@Austin But it is true.
No it is not true. You're also ignoring the progress that has been made in terms of conflict and violence and while ethnic tensions exist, that doesn't manifest itself into race wars or racal motivated wars. If anything ethnic diversity diminishes it in western society. Most "ethnic tensions" today in the West are tensions between cultures.
"Are you an American citizen?"
Tara: "Why are you asking that question?"
🤔🤔🤔
+WWAJD the reason the question mattered was because in her white ethnostate she would be someone that she deported.
Creslin321
Nono, she said no illegals allowed. That includes people who gets citizenship via marriage.
lol
yeah....lets all pretend cute british girls are a serious immigration problem. its this kind of disingenuous dribble that is the reason these problems wont be solved in the best possible way. apparently if some of you have your way it will take the extreme measures that you pretend you against.
Suzuki Six Not the point.
"I want the brown people from mexico to leave But I am white from the UK so I can stay" - Tara McCarthy
Fucking lol :,D
@@Lors_101 nah man when she says subharan africans she means every black person
SoICanHaveThisName strawman. the actual argument is " I am here legally so I get to stay. anyone who isn't has to leave."
@@trentonmcclintock7836 She was for stripping people of their citizenship to kick them out. US law dictates that all people born on American soil are US citizens regardless of their parents status. Tara wants to edit the 14th amendment and apply that edit retroactively. She also talked about revoking citizenship of legal immigrants, but never got around to saying what criteria she would use to justify this revocation. She argued for kicking out legal immigrants and native born citizens that she doesn't like the look of, not kick out all illegals.
maneatingcheeze that reading of the 14th amendment is a bastardization. it was never intended to grant citizenship to every single person born on u.s. soil regardless of their parents status.
having said that, going back and applying it retroactively is wrong imo. I don't think we should be kicking out any current citizens
Why is JF simping for Tara? She's way over 18....
and not retarded
Hes only into retards, because of the genetic secrets they hold
@@frostedlambs 💀 genetic secrets lmfao
It's called LOVE you eddyot
Good one
>debate between Destiny and JF
>keep bringing in people to argue against Destiny
fair and balanced
Fair enough point!
>debate between Destiny and JF
>Destiny slides the entire debate into watching a Tara Maccarthy video
>Destiny starts strawmanning Tara Macarthy to avoid a debate on race realism
This reminds me of a meme from the Lauren Southern debacle.
"Destiny, they outnumber you 5 to 1."
"Then it is an even fight."
Dinky Winks JF and destiny agreed that her goal was to make the US whiter. She described her stances on immigration when asked on how to get out as many brown people as possible, and she wanted to change the neutralization process specifically to deport brown people (since that is her goal and that she wanted the methods to get neutralized selectively picked after her taste), so that she later could threaten them with violence.
When destiny said that she wanted to deport groups of brown people with violence he was right.
All deportation of illegals is based on threats of violence. Same way all taxation is ultimately backed by threats of violence, and also any mild regulation. Should we open all borders then?
Secondly, she openly stated that she believes in incentives and demographic shifts, not ridiculous extreme exclusions. Who has the authority on Tara Macarthy's views? Current Tara Macarthy, a two year old video of Tara Macarthy, or Destiny?
Sorry, but when comes to the views of a person, I'll put what the person openly states before your strawman.
Tara : "My friends who are mexican intermingle and interbreed with white people, therefore they could possibly be considered white. "
When you accidentally argue for multiculturalism while trying to talk about a pure white ethnostate.
JF: "Glad I could dispel the strawman built of Tara"
Tara: "I want to get deport citizens and am pro-eugenics"
Someone needs to teach JF what a strawman is.
Oh shit, you're a destiny fan now? That's cool.
I told you guys I agree with him on many things, but you didn't believe me. Been at odds with JF and his crew since before I ever heard of Destiny xD
Calm down man
truMalma how do you feel about Dest now my grill?
GODESTINY lul wgat?
Destiny was right, JF did a better job for Tara’s arguments than Tara.
Tbh Tara did a better job undermining her own arguments than Destiny
@@Marqrk Indeed. Just let Tara go for more than a couple sentences and she would've tripped up on her own.
Destiny just a tip from a law student you ceded way too much and perhaps it comes from being new to this issue but here are a couple of points to consider.
1) JF's claim that we are only recently removed from hundreds of thousands of years of separation is flatly false we left Africa merely 50,000 years ago which is literall y a second in genetics.
2) Genetic diversity and propensities do exist but that does not mean we can accurately tie anything to that diversity except for a few halotypic external traits.
3) This is a huge one, but the scientific consensus is firmly on your side all of the major scientific foundations including the AMA, scientific American and most publications support the idea that race is biologically fictitious in that we again can't tie anything other than external appearance and a few geographic adaptations to anyone group but those adaptations may be found in any population under the same conditions. For example, the SC anemia thing is present not only in subsaharan africans but in every racial group exposed to malaria over extended periods in our history.
4) The mainstream scientific claim is not that IQ isn't partly heritable, it is. However, the mainstream view is that there is no evidence that we can tie the heritability of IQ to race because of our lack of genetic separations per point one. There is a universal human distribution of education and the flynn effect goes a long way in showing IQ is way too reactive to be due to race iq www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/6/15/15797120/race-black-white-iq-response-critics.
5) to point four , twin studies merely demonstrate the truth of proposition 4, IQ is partly heritable but twin studies go no where in proving the giant link that we can extrapolate this to race. There are studies of German children who were black african american sons and daughters who grew up without racial animus or a concept of inferiority in good neighborhoods and surprise surprise the IQ gap mysteriously goes away.
6) the flynn effect
7) to reiterate destiny, read up on the mainstream literature on the scientific consensus about race and race-IQ and just nail it in whatever debate you are in. Mainstream science has mountains of data merely saying race isn't useful but really is just a proxy for genetic diversity. Essentially we are different but not different enough to warrant the categorization of racial groups. But I mean this was the norm throughout human history. The greeks, phoenicians, carthaginians, romans, egyptians, berbers, levantians, persians, babylonians, byzantines, ottomans, asians had no concept of race as we have now, they were incredibly multicultural empires composed of thousands of ethnic groups that stretched from upper saharan african down to places like chad and all the way into asia. Race was only concocted when white people finally got their turn at the top of the food chain after the end of thousands of years of non germanic white dominance.
1) 50k years ago is not necessarily a short time in genetics. Google the "domesticated red fox" for an experiment where massive genetic changes happen in just a few generations.
2) There are many obvious examples we can point out to show that there are significant differences within humanity: tibetans who have evolved adaptations to help them get oxygen at high environments, African Pygmies who are almost certainly short due to genetic differences, and the recent evolution in a few populations to digest milk.
3) The stated consensus is politically manipulated because it is highly politically incorrect to state that race is a useful construct.
4) A trait being reactive doesn't mean that the genetic influence can be ignored. For example, height is largely a function of nutrition but that doesn't mean that the variance in height within a group with similar nutrition is not due to genetic differences.
5) The german study is a well known outlier. There may in fact be few differences in IQ between races but that study isn't definitive. We'll probably know more in a few years.
6) See point 4
7) Identity has often been conflated with genetic population groups, in a world before constant and significant mass travel clear concepts of genetic population groups probably weren't likely to form. A clear conception of race coalesced during the age of discovery, exactly when people were able to observe populations on a continental scale. The recent idea that the concept of "race" is morally indefensible has clearly had an impact on the stated "scientific consensus", which is clearly not followed in practice evidenced by the fact that medical advice often varies depending on race.
1)Forceful Domestication is not the same as accidental genetically drifting populations who still maintain intermixing due to conquest and trade. The claim was not that things can't be purposely altered quickly merely that it takes millions of years of isolation for proper sub populations to develop naturally into things that can be said to be races proper
2) So you are saying if you dropped a group of white or black people in the Tibetan mountains they wouldn't develop the same oxygen efficiency are tibetans so special that they alone would have the trait ? Are any other groups capable of developing shortness based on genetic mutations? Obviously any group can develop a genetic quirk and it has absolutely nothing to do with racial differences. Obviously they would because thats kind of how life works at a basic level. Those adaptations have nothing to do with race and you are making an environmental argument.
3) With all due respect it is highly convenient that when the scientific consensus and mountains of data don't agree with you it is "political" we have a lot of scientists and researches in the field struggling with this concept because; a) it defies definition in a succinct scientific way, why am I considered black when the vast majority of my genes are jewish and european? b) at the margins the concept breaks down into sloppy halo-typical speculation about who is which race c) modern genetics shows how vastly similar we are d) researchers cannot isolate any set of traits to race accurately enough to predict anything because the concept is more cultural than it is scientific. e) www.scientificamerican.com/article/race-is-a-social-construct-scientists-argue/
4) You are saying the same thing I am saying....Again, No one is making the claim that things like personality and IQ aren't partly genetically influenced what the consensus is demonstrating is that we can't link that heritability to race in any meaningful way. This is in line with your point 5 and you in no way demonstrated a race-IQ link.
5) Never said it was definitive but there are studies where stigma and poverty is removed and lo and behold a 15 point gap disappears between the races which is the gap between whites and blacks. Just as an anecdote I grew up African American in the upper class in a multi ethnic suburb and ended up at a tier 1 law school and test well above the average in pretty much everything it makes a huge difference having such an environment.
6) You are factually confused, the flynn effect is not saying IQ can't be heritable across a human mean, the Flynn effect is saying that huge shifts in IQ happen too fast (like over one generation) for us to say that race is driven primarily by genetic evolution. If the flynn effect was incorrect then we would expect changes in IQ to happen over millions of years not one generation or two.
7) Ths consensus has been the norm for all of human history and white european racism is an abberation, nearly every empire recognized the absurdity of regarding humans as separate races and it had nothing to do with them being "politically correct" they still held slaves and could be quite cruel but it was on perceived cultural superiority and ideas about might making right. Are you saying the romans didn't believe in race in the way we did because they were PC in the same way? By the way calling the scientific consensus merely because of PC does nothing to overcome all the data that claim is based on nor does it make sense. In order to get peer review you are going to only succeed by good methodology and sound conclusions that can be replicated not disguising some normative claim as science. No, these things got discovered by actual modern science and genetic testing, and the like you need to be arguing against that not making a motives based argument.
Destiny is new to this issue. I realized that when he referenced some months ago Sam Harris' disgusting podcast where Harris tried to give credibility to Charles Murray's bullshit racist Bell Curve nonsense. Destiny talked about that podcast episode in the positive which shows he doesn't know to much about this topic. "Race realism" is pure bunk and can easily be destroyed if one has basic knowledge in the topic. White supremacists bank on the fact that the people they are speaking to know about as little about these topics because that is the only way they can recruit people. Anyone else can debunk these clowns left and right. For example, take that obnoxious white supremacist piece of shit JF. He says during this stream that it doesn't matter if you classify human beings into 5 or 5 hundred races, race still exists. Except that by acknowledging there is no way you can name how many supposed "human races" there are it proves that race is nothing more than a social construct. Destiny didn't point this out because he is not well experienced in this topic to call out the bullshit from white supremacists. Fact is, there is no such thing as a "white race". There were people that were not classified white at one time that "became" white later on. All of this is motivated for no other reason than political purposes not scientific ones. It's the white supremacists that need for it to be based in some sort of fact because without it they have little to go on and not that they have anything to go on in the first place.
Fuck white supremacy.
Great Post Running man, absolutely true... Anyone seasoned in this debate would have jumped all over that 5 races or 600 hundred races point because that is the whole argument if race is such a nebulous undefined concept that we can't accurately pick a number of races based on biology and categorize every human into them then the whole point is irrelevant.
600 races is tantamount to saying race is just a proxy for genetic diversity and isn't accurate at all as a phenomenon. I just wish he would have waited and really read up on the consensus and came ready to reject the descriptive claims. It seems like youtube has gotten so right wing that there is this group think that race realism is just a fact. People like Warski make the classic 17th century Kantian Racialist mistaker of confusing our variance with such substantial differences to constitute race. It is a really simple concept to debunk like you said but you have to read up on it. Also this is as settled a debate as anyother faux debate out there like climate change and evolution. Scientists soundly reject the idea of races as anything but proxies for ethnicity. Any group can develop pretty much any other adaptation that any other group has given the same environmental conditions because we are all too closely related to be different sub species.
Tyler Potts I hope to be smart like you one day. Ugh... I feel like a loser.
It really bothers me how many of destiny’s legitimate questions were dismissed. Like I thought it was an interesting point that he asked why things like height don’t determine race, and only skin color does. But JF just responded with condescension. Really frustrating.
It's because these aren't actual debates. These people are morons. They simply never thought about this. And they refuse to do so. And they won't admit it. And the people listening to them are even more stupid. They won't even notice.
Have not yet watched the whole thing, but that sounds like a very silly observation from what you summarized. Skin colour isn't the only thing that distinguishes races, it's just the one employed most often by average joes to distinguish race because it's the most obvious trait that is easily observable upon meeting someone for the very first time.
Hopefully Destiny does another stream with just JF, I am not particularly fond of many of these other participants.
zomge it's due to centuries of prejudice that humanity, especially America, isn't ready to move past yet. Conservatives want to bring everything back to the 80 or even as early as the 50s (where people were incredibly racist compared to now), warts and all, without taking into account societal, cultural, and technological progress and how that impacts everything.
Before you ask i brought up conservatives because as much as the SJWs (real ones not some random moderate liberal) bash white people, conservatives are by and large far more vitriolic and widespread with their prejudice against anyone who isn't white or Christian
+Rational Manimal i agree... They brought up sickle cell without realizing that it is just another biological response based on an environmental occurrence.
There are actually large groups of Asian people from tropical areas who also tend to have sickle cell.
Sickle cell is a HUMAN response to the prevalence of the Malaria virus in a region.
Skin color is also a HUMAN response to UV exposure.
Lou Heisenburg Doesn't matter what the average joe sees a race, because that is another discussion entirely. Race realists think that race is a meaningful biological concept.
The, "Are you American, Tara?" bit kills me every time
Sufficio the comments on Andy's channel on that are even better 😂
Had me fucking howling
**Condescending sigh**
That doesn't even deserve an answer.
So tired of these Brits and Commonwealthers trying to speak authoritatively about the US.
DUDE LITERALLY THE BEST MOMENT WAS THIS IDFC
1:09:10 Tara:"It's in your blood. What your ancestry has done, you are more capable of being able to do."
Tare mixing reality with anime. One for all face looking ass XD. (My Hero Academia)
Balatobieyo I know that’s a lie because I barely have the stamina ride it cowgirl style for more than a minute...let alone pick cotton in the smoldering heat for hours with no wage
Taryn Great give me your address and I’ll help you train your stamina
@@PinkPisces practice more
@@fungdark8270 I’m much better at it now lol 😂
@Azathoth Hastur no
Take a shot every time Andy interrupts the conversation by reading a donation.
no thx, i wanna live
So far 2 hours in I have gotten 0 shots. Though I do not drink so that may be why I have not taken a shot.
+God why is this comment so good?
ok guys i know we are debating but deathtodarkies1776 wants to say “i want to deepthroat JF so hard i can taste the retarded 19 yearold”
@Exo Duct, Sometimes genius shines every once in a while.
53:56 Tara ignorantly says "ethnostates were the norm throughout human history. Multiculturalism is a modern experiment that has been happening since the 1960s onward..." I refer you to the Romans, Phoenicians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians, Mongols, and Chinese. None of those were ethnostates. All of them, at their zenith, were the most multicultural states of their time.
Oh she's pro-eugenics for whites. Fascinating. This is why free speech, regardless your views, is good. It is good to hear these people articulating what they really think outside of their edited videos. Really helps put things in context.
Like Geek points out he thought one way about Tara after seeing her two minute edited video, but once she spoke off the cuff it changed his opinion of her message.
Ragnar Rok for real, I with he would have shut her dumb ass up with this one
Yeah, China which is 99% Han, what a great example of a non-ethnostate.
AugustusPugin the us
AugustusPugin BTW you are very mistaken about the Chinese ruclips.net/video/v4bZ1rpCGt8/видео.html
The Joozian Left what ?
Wow JF is like a white nationalist white knight, interesting.
You said a lot but nothing at the same time. What did he say that was wrong.
I know, I love JF
funi last a lot of things lol
He also wants to turn Europe and the US into a safe space.
everything he does is for white women
Tara: "Please let me express my own views"
Destiny: "Okie"
Tara: "Voluntary eugenics"
😂
@Alex Green
So? Voluntary eugenics is a perfect solution.
And?
Is that it?
"The founding fathers...... 1920s......"
The argument isn't purely about the founding fathers. We can tell by immigration policy that was around from the 1920's onward that the US was an already established ethno-state.
I dont wanna go outside with the definition of that ethnicity changing significantly over time
@@vincenzobertucci1224 Because Native Americans and African Americans aren't...American...
+
Sub Roy
His entire spiel was just dumb. In the time the founding fathers created the United States had English migrants but also other European immigrants like Dutch people
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Americans#Early_exploration
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Americans
Germans, Swedes, Huguenot (French)
Tara`s argument was that the laws of 1920 cemented who was considered white and who wasn't
Xell1987 the English famously instituted laws that fucked pretty much everyone accept for Englishmen
JF's white knighting was cringe worthy
**Destiny asks a question** **Tara about to answer **french man answers for her**
JF was there to debate Destiny and Destiny purposefully slid the debate into a completely unrelated topic, and then started misrepresenting and insulting Tara to replace his debate about race. So, quit the butthurt, JF intervened far less than I wish he had.
To be fair, JF is used to speaking for the mentally deficient. His previous GF was considered non compos mentis by the state.
MustardFuelledVengeance he wants those alt right dollars.
Dinky Winks hoping ur a troll lol
Tara: wants to kick immigrants out of USA. Also Tara: has a foreign accent.
You are too stupid to realize this strawman got called out a half dozen times already …
What is it with alt-right Canadians and wanting to change American politics
Have you seen Australians lmao
Avery Noe not sure..... but I do smell Jewery afoot.
they lost hope that Canada would buy their shit. But America has a market for everything.
I'm a Brit. And I can't thank the US enough for taking Tara off our hands. Thank you, dear colonial friends.
- A limey.
Cybigun I thought you stopped sending the undesirables when the independence insured.
We did. But this is part of a centuries long attempt to undermine the traitorous colonials, and reclaim the colonies for Queen and Country.
@Ramses77 I come from a nation of "stormfags". Anybody with any pre-1965 opinions on race (such as all of my ancestors) are "stormfags" according to you children.
Lol!!
Keep her
"They act white"
WTF DOES THIS EVEN MEAN!
Liking mayonnaise.
Btw I'm white so i can say that lol.
maybe not being rapists, stoners, murderers and shitting in the streets?
@@qdodge7796
I don't know anyone who would voluntarily defecate on the street.
@@redberet5064 take a look at India.
"they don't annoy me"
It's scary to listen to people like Tara and JF. Have we learned nothing from history?
What history are you reading where you think it teaches us that whites don't deserve to have their own countries?
gh nnnuu it's Augustusssss...uuuuuuffffuuuuuuuu..blluhhhhgggpfpffdddsssdddfaihoahdoidh..
@Creslin321 They were fought and beaten by ethnostates of themselves. Churchill believed in "Keep Britain white" as a political slogan. Why do you associate ethnonationalism with Germany and not Britain or the US? It applied to all three.
Creslin321
The UK _had_ no other races in it, it was already fully pure. The US _did_ have segregation and Jim Crow as well as the US literally rounding up hundreds of thousands of people based on their race (Japanese) during the war. If the US had lost, their enemies would easily spin this into _"you hate Japanese, you rounded them up so you could kill them!"_ and they'd have no defence. All your understanding of WW2 came from what the winners of that conflict told you, not what was actually happening.
_it's far different from what the Germans did_
It is exactly the same as what the Germans did actually. The Germans sadly had no ability to form a counter-narrative after the war given that their cities had been destroyed and their women raped into submission. The lies that were introduced at the Nuremberg show trials now constitute the "facts" that people like you still believe to this day. The brunt of it is that it is okay when the Allies round up people based on their ethnicity, but when the Germans do it, it is evil and wrong and borne of imperial bloodlust. This is just _choosing_ to interpret the same actions in one scenario as good and the other as bad. It's conditioning. You have been conditioned.
this girl is a complete meme. goes from "what the founding fathers wrote" to "what the founding fathers may have first drafted" to "written in 1920s" in 10 seconds
JF: the Alt-Right White Knight.
Piesenberg he didnt fo any such thing all he did was talk for that other idiot.
Destiny was obviously acting like a petulant manchild towards Tara because JF whooped his ass in the debate. So, JF told him several times to stop throwing his petty insults and to quit being disingenuous. It so obvious but I guess Destiny fans are so caught up in his Talmudic tactics to not notice.
Piesenberg how did jf whip his ass? Where?
Amen. JF for president
@@piesenberg3098 it's pretty funny watching JF white knight Tara makes a change from preying on mentally disabled girls.
"do you want tana to join the chat to explain her beliefs"-moderator
"Im sure jf can explain her beliefs better than she can"-destiny
"I'm sure jf can tell you"-tana
"What she means"-jf
It's also interesting how one of these dudes talked about how the Caucasian majority needs to be maintained because once your a minority in a country it sucks, yet they won't acknowledge that a lot of the traits that they don't like in black people are a result of them being a minority and discriminated against in this country
@Butter Brickle Thats not how affirmative action works. The idea is that if you have two people of equal qualification, and one is from a disadvantaged class in society the one who is disadvantaged should be picked over the one who wasn't because the former had to go through a lot more to get to the same level.
Why would you move to or stay in a country where you thought your race was an issue lol
Barabbas Rift because a lot of black people were born here for many generations of slaves that were brought here out of no will of their own. The minorities in the US have a lot more in common culturally with eachother than they would with some other country they have never lived in. Minorities who travel here have opportunities that they are looking for and having racism as an obstacle means that we should get rid of the racism, not the people who are being marginalized. Moving somewhere else solves no real issues in this context
@@barabbasrift8874 you say that as if people could just leave their country and live a new life somewhere else easily. That's unrealistic.
@@rasho2532 my family left Israel and moved to the usa without issue once the approval came through.
"For 10'000 years we've worked well as Europeans" uhhhh 2 of the most deadliest conflicts in human history were fought on the European continent by Europeans. I don't even need to go into all the death and destruction the thousands of years before that.
She's just not smart
Europe literally imploded on itself two times in the last century she is a brainlet
The "1% of white Americans owned slaves in the South" argument is false. The unit of ownership back then was family. It wasn't just the one father's slave, it was the families slave. The fact is in 1860 32% of white families owned slaves in the states which seceded from the Union. In some states in the South there were more slaves than freedmen.
Even if it were true that only 1% of whites owned slaves, that would still multiply over generations, as their children and children of the nonslavers interbred, meaning that most white Americans have some degree of slave owner's blood.
@Christian Garcia 49% of Mississippi's white population owned slaves, most slave states averaged at around 25-30% of their white populations being slave owners, with the lowest state being Delaware at 3%. A simple google search can give you the statistics.
@Christian Garcia Here are proofs of my statement. Just because the numbers you have (with no source btw) might not add up in your mind doesn't mean that these statistics, which were taken at the time, aren't true.
www.history.com/news/5-myths-about-slavery
slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/09/slavery-myths-seven-lies-half-truths-and-irrelevancies-people-trot-out-about-slavery-debunked.html
www.snopes.com/news/2019/08/07/percent-of-whites-owned-slaves/
@Christian Garcia That's true, however that is how they classified ownership in those days, not to mention that it doesn't really matter whether or not your name is on the papers, you can still order the slave around like you own him, because the whole family does.
@@imperator692 Sound like bullshit bro. Owning a slave would require a whole complex infrastructure that most people didn’t have. It’s not like owning a dog buddy.
@Christian Garcia It's not outdated, it was the measurement of the day. The plantation owner's family would collectively use the slaves. You can't just point to one guy to shoulder the blame for slavery, it was a family business. The father of a slave owning family employed his wife, sons and daughters, as well as cousins, uncles and other relatives to run the plantation, and therefore those relatives deserve to be counted.
Imagine if we were at the Council of Nuremberg, deciding the fate of the Nazi government, and you argued that actually Hitler's generals, war cabinet, propagandists, senior SS Officers and the architects of the Holocaust shouldn't be charged for war crimes because technically Hitler was their leader, and they were just people in his employ. If we applied your logic to the Nazis then none of the people who did the Holocaust should have been charged because ultimately they did what they did for Hitler. But of course that's stupid. Hitler's war cabinet deserves just as much of the blame as Hitler, and the slave owning overseers of the plantations deserve as much of the blame as their patriarchs.
I cringed when the guy started flirting with the fascists girl 😬 "I feel so sad that you're marrying another person"---so pathetic.
No one:
Destiny: *debates the entire altright*
And gets steam rolled in the process
@@spencer5028 yeah lol, he kinda gets his ass kicked by JF. this debate kinda exposes how destiny likes to straw man his opponents (maybe not deliberately).
@@spencer5028 Steam rolled my ass, Destiny poked holes all in their arguments
Geleivis JF was shit here. I don’t know what you watched
@@spencer5028 nope he completely destroyed the alt right.
"What do the 1920s have to do with the founding fathers, Tara?"
FATALITY
Flawless Victory
Destiny wins
The immigration laws of the 1920s codified into law the answer to Destiny's (frankly stupid) question. His mischaracterization that certain European ethnicities were not considered white is incorrect BECAUSE all European ethnicities were allowed to immigrate when only whites were allowed to immigrate.
@@pgtv14 they may have been allowed to immigrate but they still weren't considered white. America has a well-recorded history of Irish and Italian discrimination on the notion that they were dark foreigners
@@pgtv14 low iq strawman retort
"I am pro eugenics" hot take of last century
joe smith I wouldn’t. Would you? And if so, why?
Ah so you a pro dysgenenics
@joe smith Interesting. Autism's cause is to this day very unknown though. We don't know if it's a birth defect, or anything else-- we don't know what it is in the first place. But I digress. What's wrong with having down's syndrome? You say it's a birth defect, but why is that a bad thing in itself?
And yes, vaccines' benefits by far outweigh their risks.
Wolfenstein: The Tara/JF Order.
Lloyd Rhodes-Brandon. There appears yo be a link between certain areas of adipose tissue (being fat) and autism. Interesting read honestly. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3813395/
1:05:21 Based on IQ Tara would have a negative effect on USA.
Ok at 29 the french dude makes a big mistake. Twin studies and heritabilaty by extetion does not mean that something is not environmental. In fact IQ heritabilaty suggests it being largy environmental. it goes from 64% in young children into well in the 80% for adults. This suggest a positive environmental feedback loop. Combine this with the fact that heritabilaty once againis depending on economic standing. He shows a very basic and frankly biased knowledge of the subject. He went in with the idea that IQ must be genetic and found the evidence he needed.
No all heretabilaty does is show how heritable is within a certain environment. Ok let just as an example to make this really clear for you we as a country have a tradition of feeding blond people far more greasy food. So blond people are far more likely to get fat then others. Being blond is highly heritable so any calculated heretabilaty of fatness would be to. Now sure this is a really far fetched example but it does show the point. Simply because heretebilaty is high does not mean something does not have strong environmental impacts nor does it suggest that the differences that are highly heritiable can't be environmental. A twin study can compensate for small differences in things like child rearing but will never compensate for over arching cultural trends. Higher IQ means better at math means you are pushed towards math more means you train that part of your brain as such get better at math and your IQ goes up. This is a very likely positive feedback loop no twin study could ever deconfound .Maybe instead of diving into the minutia you should have spent some time looking at the test you are actually doing. Also as i have already pointed out heredabilaty is already socio-economically dependent with it being less heritable when you are poorer. All heretabilty will ever given you is the importance of genetic factors within the specific group in which it is calculated. It is made purely a measurement for within a group and what an environment does to differing genes it at no point claims to say how important those genes are on the whole considering they can't decouple them from the greater environment.
That was quite a long paragraph for having such weak arguments.
>Ok let just as an example to make this really clear for you we as a country have a tradition of feeding blond people far more greasy food. So blond people are far more likely to get fat then others.
So, does US have a tradition of diverging the IQ of twins that have 50% similarity while trying to keep the IQ of twins that are identical similar?
>Also as i have already pointed out heredabilaty is already socio-economically dependent with it being less heritable when you are poorer.
If only we could have some sort of CONTROL to study and see what the real heritability is. I guess we'll never know. /s
Basically, you are trying to "win the argument" but you don't actually give a fuck about anything that you are writing.
The point of the example is to point out the fact that high heritablilaty does not mean there are no large environmental factors. Also i have already in that fucking statement giving a cultural bias that increases IQ heretabilaty. When people are better at math in early life they are generally more insensitivity to further pursue that talent further training that part of their brain and as such increasing their IQ. Simply because i use a example in which it is blatant doesn't mean it's always that obvious.
Secondly there is no such thing as real heritability. If we where all held in caves and then given an IQ test where all gonna score the same because none of us can read. Heretability is only ever true for the group and environment for which is calculated. It is simply impossible to control for something nigh on omnipresent like the prevailing culture. Unless of course you do put people in caves or the woods at which point their environment would be so different the number would be pointless for any human in any normal situation.
Your arguments are just far fetched nit picks.
>"there are environmental factors"
Yes, people are genes expressed in an environment. Race realists never claimed otherwise.
>"Secondly there is no such thing as real heritability. "
Yes, those tests are about the impacts of genes withing populations, they are statistically relative to the population. That changes nothing.
>"It is simply impossible to control for something nigh on omnipresent like the prevailing culture."
Yes. But it is not impossible to control for genetic similarity, making your point redundant.
How is is an intrinsic problem with your interpretation of heritabilaty a nitpick?
Ok you know how a gave you an example of the blond people getting fed more greasy things? How does simply having a control for genetic similarity ever compensate for the fact that it's cultural? Genuinely if you think that can and is regularly done explain it to me only with twin studies no forcing people to die there hair from birth or something that would take very intricate knowledge and potentially unethical behavior .
Also let's assume we have plants and in good soil lot's of space they grow well and their height is really heritable. Now lets shove them all in a tiny box that completely constrains their growth really early on like way smaller then even the smallest natural one. Of course in this population heretability would be 0. Which is the real herritibilaty?
TARA is not very smart
she's a literal dunce.
TARA sounds like a dysfunctional robot that scientists failed to teach logic.
@IcantSeeReplies no, frustated white nationalists who want to have hope of ever getting their dicks wet follow her with hope she'll bonk them, or that any women will have the same ideas and bonk them
@@bimbowithadegree420 I'm adding bonk to my vocabulary.
@@dias8726 would be mad if you didn't 😉
I bet if you left a disabled black girl alone at a bus stop you would catch JF at the border with her in his trunk
He's not picky. He'd fuck a female with any disability, physical or mental. No wonder he was simping for Tara so hard.
2:12:50 Every biologist is against you because by the time they got to that point in their careers, they're sick and tired and of having to deal with racist pseudoscience. JF has no serious credibility in his field according to his fellow neuroscientists, but he keeps going at this anyway.
The Irony is race denial is far more in line with creationism, except it's less internally consistent because race deniers don't typically deny natural selection in other animals. Just humans, and just in the realm of cognition. Obvious political stance is obvious.
+Panarchy Your own political stance is not just obvious, but stated. You want race realism for no other purpose than to try to 'maintain European dominance' over the world. This isn't science.
Also I love how you compare creationism to this, when your own views are actually more pathetic than creationists and use the same methodology. Every time some kind of scientific development happens, creationists try to use something from it to somehow prove their own goals even when it does nothing but irk the actual scientists doing the work. Alfred Binet, the creator of the IQ test, spent most of his life trying to show people that his IQ test was never intended as a test of 'static' or 'general' intelligence, but was purely a measure to get the strengths and weaknesses of someone's academic ability so they can be worked on. Racists of the time used it for something that he never, EVER intended it for.
That's race realism in a nutshell. Taking real science and twisting it beyond recognition.
WWAJD
And your credentials are...?
@WWAJD
"Imagine believing that there is no genetic variation in intelligence..."
I suppose you WOULD have to imagine that since nobody argued that in the first place.
@@Hotshotter3000
If IQ tests weren’t accurate, they wouldn’t be used effectively in so many different ways, like in the military.
Tara : "Founding fathers......in 1920s" lolz
Love the part when Tara had to admit she is an immigrant herself and therefore would be excluded from the american ethnostate by her own standard🤣
Ethno state is based on a persons ethnic backgrund. So if she's White she would be able to stay.
No she wouldn't.
@@CheesyChez421 ?
@@packedbacks Not hard to figure out
@@CheesyChez421 Wow, epic own, based! That is exactly how you prove a point.
Inviting on tara and alt hype derailed the conversation so much.
EsotericOccultist straw manning= Providing a video of said person in full context and what they say.
"According to Alt Righters "Straw man = any argument that proves me wrong". to be fair that is most people's definition of a straw man. You can have poor or faulty analogies in a discussion without them being a straw man, but why address the core of an argument when you can focus on the pedantry of logical fallacies
I'll agree with Tara, but once alt hype came on it was completely over. Destiny was trounced, as usual.
Alt-hype I don't think was in the right mind set for debate, sounded like he was at a christmas party and slightly impaired.
EsotericOccultist when your ideas are so bad and shitty that every critique of it sounds like a strawman
I don’t think Jf knows what a straw man is...
I dont think you do lol
There's a far stretch from kids saying "that guy is black" versus "we need our own separatist country" 😂😂😂
Race realism is a word like alt right. It use to be the word racist, the other one is a new word for what we called fascist. Now you change the words and they aren't as charged anymore. You are free to go ahead with a racist or fascist talking point.
I saw someone put;
Race realism, is just real racism.
I thought that sums it up well.
That French guy is king of circular reasoning.
He will only accept the proof that goes the way of his hypothesis. It's confirmation bias more than anything, which is rather unacceptable from a "so-called" scientific mind.
Osti qui y'est cave JF
He is a narcissist
He isn't french. Don't ever compare France to Quebec. Quebec is an American butchering of the french culture and people. They are just Canadians speaking a french dialect
The answer is becuz black people are scary !! I love u destiny 😂
@@suzukisixk7 you guys have zero solutions. You literally want to either kill us or mass deportation if we refuse you will kill us.
I mean what do you want to about it?
We have plenty of solutions but you don't even care. Just want them to go to Africa or die or both.
It's an inclusive ethnostate guys, everyone is welcome, as long as you do as- and worship the white man.
Uncle Ruckas civic nationalism.
worship is only for Almighty no one else
formless being and greater than all of his creation
Kumbaya Pasty white lord kumbaya
It's funny because Destiny was completely right- JF's shilling attempts most clearly went completely haywire the moment Tara entered the chat.
Those illegal hatsellers 😡
lol
dang yo!
Empyriangaming I guess she ID'd them to make sure they were illegal Africans lol
Ragniirox My problem wasn't the hats either, moron. It was how the he'll did she know they were illegal? Assuming her story is even true at all.
Completely agree Ragniirox, my original comment was kind of making fun of her use of anecdotes rather then specifically being about illegal hatsellers. (Anyone who watched that part at least probably came to the same conclusion). I'm not defending those illegal hatsellers, if they are indeed there illegaly they shouldn't be.
Lol the biologists on RUclips aren’t “scared” of Jeff, they just don’t find him legitimate so they’re not going to wast their time listening to his garbage. 🤣
J.F.*
He’s a Duke University professor, you don’t get much better than that
@@hello8987 aaaaahahahaha 😂😂😂
@@hello8987 So? His views can still be illegitimate.
Qwamqwamasket Ilmixum whatever helps you sleep at night
J.F. = a White Knight for Grand Wizards.
Shawnee Longbow that's good lol
Road to Damascus I have my moments. 😉
Her mouth is probably better.
yes he did
Shawnee Longbow where’d you get that creative insight, at the toilet store?
oh man, that one superchat. "I used to like Destiny, but now he uses Talmudic tactics" as if I don't know what the antisemite is implying.
Christ it's like the dog whistling Olympics!
Oh thanks. I've seen this kind of stuff before, but didn't know it had a name. I had to search the terms "dog whistling Olympics" which came up with "dog-whistle politics".
Dog whistling is not an actual thing.
Jeez man, I feel like we debunked that "dog whistlin" shit back when it was still Atheists debunking Christians
Me eating bread is not a "dog whistle" towards the existence of Peanutbutter.
MrPinbert Okay dude. If you say so then I guess we can't dispute it. Case closed boys.
@MrPinbert Are you sure? Seems like you're just saying "it doesn't exist", and using a false analogy (bread=peanut butter). Now I could see how the identification of such "dog whistles" could be inaccurate some of the time, but that doesn't necessarily mean those coded phrases don't exist.
For instance Kent Hovind uses several in this debate ruclips.net/video/-rhHzwEjS5c/видео.html
Most of what Kent says there is overtly appealing to an audience of ignorant folk. Like when he asks for plain wording which makes him appear like a "normal Joe". But he brought up Sponge Bob (a veiled appeal to children), and Louis L'amour books (a veiled appeal to country folk who read cow boy literature). Right there are two obvious dog whistles if I've ever seen one. Both meant to humanize Kent to a certain demographic, and dehumanize his opponent to the same folk. All his poor interlocutor had was science which sounds like black magic to Kent's target audience who are not versed in such technical terminology.
I could see how specific identifications of "dog whistles" could be false flags, but in general I think many that can be identified are real. There is a psychology to them much like advertising. Like how Santa Claus in Coke commercials appeals to the nostalgia of a target audience. There is a very obvious coded message there in the form of an emotional trigger.
You can dispute with me, that's fine.
Nowadays the only people that will use the term "dog whistle" are Mainstream Media Pundits, because they know that most of their audience wont actually do any research on what the term means.
I'm not sure why you let him get away with saying something like all greatest inventions came from white ethno states. It's categorically false and exactly why this reductive line of argumentation gets us no where. Time/creations are fluid, we don't take a look at the people responsible for .mp3 formatting and say omg, look... they created computers and electronics in general. Each creation lends to more creations. Gun powder -> Canon -> Musket -> Assault rifle.
Before we could even say "white civilization" we would need to ask ourselves, what is "white"? Then we would also have to look at what influenced that. e.g. Etruscan influence in Rome. Had that influence not existed, where would Rome have gone? This is all hyperreductive, and while I appreciate the idea of talking about things. This is the danger of RUclips media.
@Iron Tusk they do all the time
Yes it very much is.
@Johnny Cassette It's not though. Like not even close, if it's anti white to say white people or rather Western Civilization didn't invent all our modern appliances then it's clear to me that biases cloud your judgment because that's an extremely delusory claim to make.
ABOUT TIME. FUCK. I need a higher frequency of debates, I was starting to get in a heavy withdrawal. Please Steven
I ain't playin anymore Destiny, this is a muthafuckin stick up. Give me the debates and nobody gets meme'd
john doe I know how you feel.
JF is wrong about the twin studies thing. He says that through twin studies that feature monozygotic and dizygotic twins, you are able to determine heritability. That's correct. That does *not* mean, however, that you can piece out the percentages of gene influence and environmental influence; that's BIG non-sequitur.
Heritability is a statistic used to measure how much genetic differences between people influence phenotypic differences. That doesn't mean that these phenotypic differences come from genes. If personality, for example, has a heritability of 0.7, that doesn't mean that 70% of your personality is genetic and 30% is environment; it's much more nuanced that that. That 0.7 heritability means that genetic differences account for a high amount of responsibility for your personality. Heritability can also change without genes changing whatsoever. That's incredibly dishonest of him.
I was thinking this exact same thing. So annoying and shows that he doesn't acctually know what he's talking about
You seem to be contradicting yourself, twice in one post. You say “heritability is a statistic that measures how much genetic differences influence phenotypic differences,” then say “that doesn’t mean these phenotypic differences come from genes.” Huh? If differences in genetics “influence” differences in phenotypes, then in what sense are the phenotypic differences not coming from the genes? I’m not saying 100% of the difference is caused by genes, of course. But your statement basically boils down to “Just because differences in A influence differences in B, that does not mean the differences in B are influenced by differences in A.”
dude this chick is crazy
hilarious that a person with french canadian accent and British accent saying certain people should be deported from the US.
A non American telling I, am American, to leave America? 👌👌👌👌👌🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 amazing idea.
Are you really Native or just some white person who is like 5% Cherokee?
@@jimmydolo7557 way to out yourself as a racist bigot buddy. People like you are what's wrong with this country.
@@user-ic9vz8sp1x according to JF might be enough to get deported either way.
@First name last name
actually if you study history you'll learn that circa 1492 the europeans invaded.
and while the anglos were the most racist and rarely ever mixed with anyone, the spaniards were less racist, and they did mix.
that's why most modern day americans are a mix of american, european and african.
and i'm ok with my african and european blood, that doesnt make me any less american than anyone else.
@@PrestoPuma woah!!! he exposed himself!!! Are you that fucking dumb, you think he fucking cares, so fucking pathetic.
**Judge** : Mr Warski you are guilty of-
**Warski** : one sec. we got a superchat from FlatEarther69, he says ‘Warski’s not guilty and Destiny is shorter than my rug’. Ok back to you judge.
underrated lmfao
"Wait guys hold on we gotta shout out our sponsor today Dollar Shave Club."
Tara is invading the USA! That was great!
Africa was doing just fine before the Europeans showed up, so was the rest of the world.
Material goods =/= happiness, nor does technology means automatically good if not harnessed wisely to advance the human condition, I.e sustainably and fairly.
@IcantSeeReplies In the near future(couple decades) they will have the fastest growing economy. It will be similar to how China industrialized. Yes there are a bunch of problems in Africa, but a lot of data suggest the continent is going to explode socially, economically, and technologically.
@IcantSeeReplies African countries are going to quickly become superpowers.
Private Ebony true, many of the fastest growing countries are African
THANK YOU 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Lone Wisdom What a well constructed and thought out response
Destiny, I was encouraged not to like you by some of the super far leftists, but after listening to you actually speak and debate with people, I think I found a new favorite content creator. I think you are 100% on point, and I WISH I had your ability to articulate and debate.
What was their problem with Destiny, just curious?
@@KJW-js9bv Probably that he's not far left enough. Same with the Alt-right disowning their own because they're not far right enough. The growing divisiveness isnt just between left/right but the in-group fighting on each side.
I think that the idea that we should exclude certain racial groups based on a tendency towards lower iqs is extremely bizarre because if the point was to raise the average iq of the country, wouldn't it just be easier to just exclude people based on solely low iq? Why even introduce race into the question to begin with?
You snapped Todd.
Motivated reasoning, essentially. They want a reason to get rid of people shades darker than them.
If you did that people would claim racism anyway because it would disproportionately impact certain groups.
@danieledwards9856 if we started deporting people based on IQ then we would have to deport people advocating for depoting people based on IQ
"Are you an american?"
"Uhhhmmmm"
That was just brutal
I cracked the fucked up at that😂😂😂
"You can cluster it in 5 races or cluster it in 600 races" so it is pretty damn arbitrary lmao
@Local Toast Hello, Again Again Again XD
Tara would fit well with sub-saharan africans, she too has 70 IQ
watching all these old debates again. this red pill shit is so boring
I died when destiny called her honey lmao
I missed that. When?
1:07:38
BornInsane0 I heard him say that as soon as I read that
BornInsane0 she deserved to be talked down to like that
Okay?
No legal citizens are leaving the US this conversation of an ethno state is pointless...
The thing is that the white nationalists are willing to leave for a territory to spare for their own.
Thinking Mouse then why don't they all i see is a butch of bitching and moaning about these different folks around me and how they desperately want a safe space if i truly despised all the different races in the US i would leave but even if were to go to Africa there would still be Arabs whites and asians id still have to share land with and the west pretty much lives off Africa's resources just like the rest of the world so this Africans for the africans therapy is bullshit just like Europeans for europeans and asia for the asians
Tirrell Murray That's why they want an ethostate. Because there is no place right now where they can move and live as sole population (or close to that). I don't really know enough about what these people think but some seem to think that the issue of moving people around won't be an issue. The reason for this is due to the belief that all races inherently want to live excluded from each other when no other factors are affecting their decision making. I don't remember the dude (he's not in this video) but he's the one who pronounces white "hwhite". He basically suggested that a realistic solution would be to make some states in America white/black etc. only, but maintain most states as open for everyone. And he believes that freedom of association is eventually going to make the normal states non existent as people freely relocate to live with people of their race. They are very heavy on the fact that there are racial separatists who aren't white.
Tirrell Murray Ryan fault doesn't shun trade (from what I know). He just doesn't want to see a bunch (I guess the standard is 93% white since he wanted the demographics to be like Denmark) of non-whites in his city, country, military and electorate.
Bigman Dogs it doesn't matter its a pipe dream a fantasy a ridiculous illusion that will never become reality
Also it really irks me that these ethnostaters say that all of the states of the past were ethnostates when the very concept of an ethnicity hasn't existed until a few centuries ago
@A piece of fucking sliced white bread!
Lmao completely different concept of it lol
Which of these states were ethnostates, half of the old kingdoms were ethnically diverse.
@EnterTheVoid Same goes for multiculturalism and the bounty it provides.
JF,Tara and Warski made me pro choice. They also revitalized my appreciation for the 2nd amendment.
Oh no
based
repent to God
The best parts of this whole video are just when the discussion starts getting heated and moving towards the actual substance of the debate, Andy jumps in with "HEY GUYS JUST WANTED TO TELL CHAT SOMETHING COMPLETELY POINTLESS AND MAKE SURE YOU GUYS REALIZE I'M AUTISTIC SO I GUESS I'LL GO ON ABOUT THAT FOR FIVE MINUTES AND NOW THAT YOU'VE HAD SOME TIME TO THINK JF OR TARA YOU CAN GO AHEAD WITH YOUR ARGUMENTS THANKS BACK TO YOU GUYS"
I don’t think refugees and immigrants belong to Europe but then she said she wants African Americans to go back to their ancestral homelands and I was like “Dude, their ancestral homeland is America”
Exactly
I'm not saying IQ isn't a real metric, but I am always extremely skeptical whenever I hear people bring up IQ comparisons across nations. The ones I've looked into so far don't seem to have a very concrete methodology for deriving IQ, and instead rely on approximations using stats such as literacy rates. Any nation having an average of IQ of 70 means the majority of the population would have trouble formulating words and taking care of themselves.
Which nation has an average IQ of 70 where the population doesnt have trouble formulating words? (this is actually a question with 2 separate factors and isnt meant to imply anything)
actually, i just looked at the list... i would imagine that most of the countries at 70 or below would have a population where most people have trouble formulating words...and all of them seem to be in Africa. Is your argument that they are claiming something to be the average IQ... but are actually measuring for something independent of IQ?
@@nikkiclarke133 Let's take Ethiopia as an example. An average IQ of 70 doesn't seem like an accurate measurement based on things we can observe about their country. The average Ethiopian does not show to be mildly mentally impaired to the point where they cannot speak in complete sentences or take care of their own body.
@@KoldAsFire I think it is possible that the Ethiopians we typically see do not seem to have mental issues... but that there may be a larger population who are typically not advertised.
I will say that it really surprised me to see Haiti on that list... Granted... ive only met 4ish people from there... but all of them were able to speak 4+ languages... and i am told that this is typical of Haitians just based on their geographical location... I wonder if an IQ exam is able to calculate something like this... as i see this as an extremely intelligent trait...
@@nikkiclarke133 I don't think it's a question of which group is advertised. I don't think Addis Abada would have skyscrapers and highways if the surrounding average population didn't have some level of abstract thinking, which would be impossible with an average IQ of 70. Mind you Ethiopia is only one example. Another question I always have when people cite these stats in debates such as these is why does the lower half of the IQ curve span so far across countries but the upper half to seem to span as far? What I mean by this is if there are some countries with average IQs of 70 and below, why are there none with averages of 130 and above?
"Europe is a beacon of enlightenment and hope"
They also gave us communism and fascism.
So well played.
IcantSeeReplies just a reminder that Europe isn’t the only region of the world to suffer from flawed ideology
Jews gave you communism.
Just a reminder that Europe would not have been powerful if not for Arabian scholars and Chinese technology.
@@betos-08 the completely ignored negatives
WHOLY SHIT HER HYPOCRACY!! She just said she wanted to kick people who "illegally naturalized" through marriage and stuff when she is literally doing just that. That is as conservative republican as one can get. Take advantage of an opportunity and then try to burn that bridge down once you have crossed it.
"there will be ethnic diversity in the white ethnostate" - JF
Holy fucking shit dude. This guy's amazing. His takes are so powerful.
repent to God
I love how exasperated he gets when Tara gets on
AP He's like a toddler talking back to his too-polite mother.
Can anyone blame him?
Debate starts around 9:43
"So uh, I'm definitely not in favor of an ethnostate. But uh Destiny, do you think that uh, like, we shouldn't like, uh, talk about racial differences?" God Andy asks this same brain dead question 3 times in this debate
Pretty funny that 2 foreigners are talking about how the American state should be. Is it an inferiority complex?
@Daniel afg No, not really. Obviously, the boer is African and whatever "more African" means. From what I know, they have been born and raised there for a long time. If you think a black person born in the US is somehow "more African" then all you are looking at is physical traits that the majority of that population has. Do you think a black US citizen will have more in common with a white US citizen or more in common with any black citizen from any country in Africa? So silly. It does not have to do with "racial stock" and has more to do with an inferiority complex or some similar hatred/prejudice that's rooted in them. Other wise, why would they care or say those things? They are projecting their own complications on an entire country that is separate to them. You heard what they said. Usually, their whole idea is an "ethnic homeland" to keep countries of their "original" races. The United States was never an "ethnic homeland" for white people. They are pandering to that racist US audience which is a big market right now. I don't think it's intrinsic in them to be racist or any other behavioural problem, I'm not stupid. I think they both could have self reflection and fix their internal racial issues and so could any type of racist. It's sad that they peddle their own internal problems to vulnerable, confused, young, or gullible people. It's deeper than caring about what race is in another country just because they look kind of similar to them. That's stupid to begin with.
Jf is the peak of Dunning-Kruger
Black people are American and are an integral part of American culture. Matter of fact, the world copies black music from jazz, hip hop, blues, rock n roll. So this girl doesn't like America she shouldn't move here.
A debate on race and IQ deserves a more suitable moderator.
Watching a few years later Kraut has really upped and changed his video making game. He doesn't mention anyone at all in his videos, he just does documentaries on certain topics and he really does them well.
His video on how pre-war Japan turned towards it's weird form of ultra- nationalism is one of my favourite videos of all time.
When did JF become so dishonest?? He used to be really insightful and would _actually_ listen, but it seems like he jumped off the deep end. I wonder if he even realizes that he's destroying his credibility by being so dishonest.
Avenger
He has gotten too much attention from the alt righters, because of his intelligence, education and participation. Now he has to carry the weight of other people's stupidity. One thing you have to consider is that none of his statements in this video is incompatible with his old videos. He did say that he disagreed on Tara mcarthys governmental structure, as he is a ancap.
And while having some nasty rhetoric, he was honest when you pined him down, for example when he asked about what groups Tara wanted to protect, and JF awnsered race in the end.
ruclips.net/video/F663p9sxprg/видео.html
His credibility been gone brother. I'll just leave this here, in case you want to hear someone go crazy white nationalist on stream.
+Bryce Miller Thanks for the link. I'll check that out.
When did JF start becoming dishonest in your estimation? The second he started talking about evolution in humans and you found it to clash with you ideological assumptions?
not an argument
It's incredible to me that people look at the USA being the strongest country on the planet while simultaneously being the among the most (if not the most) ethnically & culturally diverse countries on the planet and then assuming that these can't possibly be related.
Is correlation causation?
The group of people that is controlling the country is NOT diverse at all lmao.
Poor sweet Andy. He's so close to understanding everything. I'm glad you're nice to him, Destiny.
repent to God
chillin'
Shillin’
Coisas de Idiomas like a villian
I cant believe how many questions you can respond to with just that single word.
DreamcastGuy what the fuck are you doing here? Thats interesting. Didn't know you watch these debates.
From nuclear winter?
this guy sounds so french it's offensive
Off-french-sive*
@@Larvemannenz001 take your upvote and leave
The french canadian didn’t sound french to me, he sounded like Canute
Race realists can't come up with a scientific definition of "race" that has any meaning, but say it's a real biological thing. When someone can show the genetic barrier between "races" they'll win an award in science
If I show you a colour that's between red and violet, but you can't be confident enough to say it's either, does that mean red or violet don't exist because you can't clearly define their boundaries? You conclusion would be that there are no colours at all, and that all of them are part of a big colour continuum. Colour divisions would be pointless then.
Again, if I take a population like say, Tatars, who are kinda in between Whites and Mongoloids, or the Mediterranean population, who combine Semites with Whites, does that mean those are proof that Whites, Asians and Semites don't exist? If so, then Black Lives Matters would be meaningless as well, since the concept of "Black" is untrue to begin with.
fuck me, as a daca recipient, blue collar worker who pays taxes, and was completely raised as an american. the shit these guys say makes me fume. props to destiny for dealing with this shit like every week.
Reglei If America would go to war with your former home country who would you support?
Political JAZZ At gunpoint? America, i live here i plan to live my life here. But thats a hypothetical i would realistically just not choose sides, i have family there and their deaths would fuck me up.
Tara McCarthy needs to shut up, she lost the moment she spoke
"you're really nitpicking"= i really hate hearing about how reality operates
"Only 1% of Americans were slave owners." -- the percent is actually 10-15%. The 1% in the north and 5% in the south statistic comes from dividing the number of slave owners to the entire population (includes babies, toddlers, women, elderly, and all those who couldn't own slaves in the first place). The 10-15% comes from dividing the number of slave owners by the number of men who own property and could afford to have slaves.
I’m not a racist, I’m a _R A C E R E A L I S T_
Wow, that clearing of the throat by Tara said it all after Destiny corrected her on the founding fathers.
Andy "I dont agree with white supremicists but they have some interesting ideas and I like to platflorm them" Warski
Sickle cell anemia like destiny said is a genetic disease but it is not resticted to people of dark skin color or people living in the sub saharan region. Just like the genetic defect called thalassemia which is very wide spread among southern italians, it is not as deadly as sickle cell anemia. But thalassemia has also developed itself in response to fight malaria