Great topic. I've been searching for the 'perfect' Pirate themed game for decades! My friends and I played the heck out of the original Blackbeard, and I still think (for me) that it's the one that comes closest to what I'm looking for. Pros: sandbox - different paths to victory, great map (bonus points for being able to travel to Gold Coast, Indian Ocean, etc), period politics - consequences of attacking ships and ports of friendly nations, being hunted down by King's Commissioner ships, upgrading to bigger ship, crew mutiny if you're performing poorly, big dollop of luck needed to avoid storms, scurvy, etc.. but sailing in those days was a pretty hazardous occupation so I never minded that. Cons: turn mechanism - relying on the turn of a card to randomize the turn order is a really bad idea. Instead of 'evening itself out' over a game it instead ensures that you watch other people get multiple goes whilst you do nothing for long stretches. I think this is what puts most folk off, but it's really quite a simple fix - I printed out a set of cards numbered from 1-4 twice and use those as the turn deck. Still a chance of getting a few turns in a row (don't mind that) but the other players at least know they will get the same number of turns every game. The chrome and rules usually get criticized in Blackbeard, but honestly it's a pretty simple game at heart, the rules format definately make it seem way more comlex than it actually is, and my group still play it a few times a year (lot of nostalgia attached to it for us, sure - but it still holds up as a solid game). If I were to attempt to create Blackbeard 2024 - more politics and historical flavour (perhaps via an Event booklet or card deck that includes things like the Port Royal earthquake, changing Monarchs and alliances, native uprisings). Privateers - make more of these guys as players or npc's and their ability to disrupt trade and upset the political balance. Governors - have the ability to become one and perhaps be able to influence and pay others to stop trading with or chase down your rivals. More ability to hire better crews, and be able to steal them from other players as you bocome more successful. Keep the hexes and same style of map. Maybe add some Inland rules - being able to sack Cartagena or even search for Incan gold and silver (possibly bring in some elements of Berg's 'Conquistador' in this respect?). Plenty more stuff to add, but at this rate it could end up playing more like Tanto Monta than the original Blackbeard!
Yeah much of what you've said here is what I have in mind too! In short, I want more depth and breadth, but without cumbersome and fiddly counters/rules. Depth of experience, without a huge upkeep of admin...
@@WiseGuyHistory Berg's 'Conquistador' springs to mind - some brilliant mechanisms but lots of admin, every end phase requiring multiple count ups of units on the map. Didn't seem much of an issue back then but could be much better handled now via spaces on a player board, etc.. Was also thinking about combat and the actual 'acts' of piracy. Perhaps the famouse Spanish Treasure Fleets should be able to increase their defense after each attack on them - much as they did in reality after Drake and others preyed upon them! Also, the Renown/Ferocity of a pirate should give you a roll for an auto surrender of a ship (are merchant ships really going to put up a fight every time?)
I used to play Sid Meiers Pirates on my C-64 with Handel's Water Music playing in the background. I remember reading a book at the time called "Captain Kidd and the War Against the Pirates." Good times.
I too would love a deep pirate game that gives that feeling that Sid Meier's Pirates. Thinking of how a new game would work for me I can think of two styles of game that would work for me. One would be a pretty close solo game that replicates Sid Meier's Pirates in that you have your ship/crew that you need to maintain and grow, have a large hex map with loads of places to explore, limited range to see ships from your ships point of view to encourage hunting and random encounters (and keep on board tokens low) and an overall political element that you also have to navigate. For me this game would need to be a slow burner that I could play for a couple of hours then save my progress, pack up and at a later time continue where I left off. The second would be almost like GMT's SpaceCorp and could be an evenings multiplayer session. I can imagine something like the three era's in that game but instead of each "era" relating to the passage of time I think each era could be the progression of your pirate. Era 1 is a small map area where you have limited crew (like bases or Infra in SpaceCorp) and your goal is to explore, grow and gain some renown. Era 2 is where you have a larger ship and begin to cast your net wider, maybe with limited interactions with the European powers, forming alliances, raiding coastal towns etc. Then Era 3 could open up to the large map, bigger ships and crew abilities/maintenance requirements and a greater political aspect with European nation backing and the final drive to accumulate wealth. Haven't thought it through much tbh but if something like this hit a crowdfunding or P500 then Id be all over it.
Thoroughly enjoyed your 'rant' and survey of existing Pirate games. Your observations and 'wants' closely echo my own. I thought the original 'Blackbeard' game was closest to what I wanted but Richard Berg's insane over use of 'chrome' made the game cumbersome to play. Of the second version, I'm totally with you on that. It was a bloody mess and the original board was far superior. I have for a long time been 'tinkering' with the original 'Blackbeard' because I think using the orignal board components etc...we can get very close to a more playable and enjoyable Pirate game.
I'm going to need to watch this again. I was distracted and I'm not sure I gathered what it is you are asking for out of a pirate game exactly. Your passion for it is infectious though.
I loved the Sid Meier's Pirates port to the Playstation Portable. I played that game to death on the PSP. It was a near perfect port of the original game with great graphics.
I was also a C64 Sid Meier's Pirates addict as a kid. Of the numerous tabletop games I've seen, none quite reach that level of RPG depth. I think "Merchants & Marauders" has been the closest I've seen, having ship upgrades, cargo details, captain abilities, pirate hunters, national ire, etc. Although that is, at it's core, a multiplayer sandbox rather than an innately solo/pireate experience. So it still requires some extra effort and user mods & AI merchant bots for that purpose. The Blackbeard games from AH & GMT were.. okay.. but had even less player options to experience than Merchants & Marauders. They aim directly at the pirate theme but fall short in comparison to the variety of Sid's classic computer games. They're less goofy than others, if that matters, but fall short in numerous ways. Unfortunately the later GMT version is a bit different than the original AH one - not always for the better.
I actually had this exact same discussion with friends recently. Why hasn't there been an official attempt at a Sid Meier's Pirates boardgame? Or at the very least, a serious clone? Such a missed opportunity for a great game
It sounds like you may need to write your own :). One that I enjoy is Sir Francis Drake, but I do not think it will meet your criteria. When I want to scratch that itch of finding a ship, building a crew, and then going off to do pirate things, I play Firefly the Game. It’s big, a sandbox, and writes its own story. We play all day, love it.
well, a game designer i really have enjoyed this year is berserker games... the system he developed have brought me hundred of hours of fun and i just started playing xmas 2023... it is called pirates and privateers, it is a print and play, honestly think it would fit you very well - has a lot of the things you want in a pirate game but it is also print and play so component quality is only so good
Despite not being born yet in the eighties, C64 was my first computer/game system. My games were on tapes. I still have the computer in working condition. Nowadays I can load games from an SD card with SD2IEC. I haven't played with it for a long time though because games that old kinda suck hard if we're being completely honest. Sorry for not engaging with the actual topic of the video.
Yeah I think it was maybe 2021 or 2022 when I got a C64 emulator. I have MANY amazing memories of the C64; it was all I had as a kid and played a LOT of games on it,
Very ambitious of you, not sure how to fit the dueling in. Fixing Blackbeard problems should give you a good place to start. It is so long since I played the AH version, I can't remember all the issues. I do remember scurvy was a pain and no fun. Cards always seem to be a way to add a lot of different elements to a game. I am interested where this could go.
Yeah I was thinking just smash Blackbeard, Merchants and Marauders [mainly just remove the 'Merchants'], Maracaibo and Dead Reckoning all together! They all have great aspects, but I want something with ALL OF IT together! :-D
For a more historical multi-player approach may I recommend "Lords of the Spanish Main" by Sierra Madre Games. A Typical Phil Eklund design it, therefore, requires a degree of creative rules interpretation. The components leave a bit to be desires as well.
Wasn't that the inspiration behind Pax Porforiana, or one of the other Pax games? I seem to recall reading about it somewhere in the editors notes to one of my Eklund games...?
@@WiseGuyHistory Quite a big difference between the "Lords of ..." and the "Pax ,,," designs. I'll lend you my copy if you are interested in looking at the 2006 original.
Black sails is pretty good for such a super light game, it's not going to scratch your itch of course. The play arc in Sid Meier's game is much better suited to a computer game IMO, it's a solitary RPG experience. It essentially has all those dumb charts from Blackbeard in the background with the process done painlessly. The solitaire only games seem to make most sense - what's the competition/interaction between pirates? Are they just racing for points? Anyway I'm not a pirate fan, over romanticised losers most of whom get hanged, but I wish you success in your search!
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Great topic. I've been searching for the 'perfect' Pirate themed game for decades! My friends and I played the heck out of the original Blackbeard, and I still think (for me) that it's the one that comes closest to what I'm looking for.
Pros: sandbox - different paths to victory, great map (bonus points for being able to travel to Gold Coast, Indian Ocean, etc), period politics - consequences of attacking ships and ports of friendly nations, being hunted down by King's Commissioner ships, upgrading to bigger ship, crew mutiny if you're performing poorly, big dollop of luck needed to avoid storms, scurvy, etc.. but sailing in those days was a pretty hazardous occupation so I never minded that.
Cons: turn mechanism - relying on the turn of a card to randomize the turn order is a really bad idea. Instead of 'evening itself out' over a game it instead ensures that you watch other people get multiple goes whilst you do nothing for long stretches. I think this is what puts most folk off, but it's really quite a simple fix - I printed out a set of cards numbered from 1-4 twice and use those as the turn deck. Still a chance of getting a few turns in a row (don't mind that) but the other players at least know they will get the same number of turns every game.
The chrome and rules usually get criticized in Blackbeard, but honestly it's a pretty simple game at heart, the rules format definately make it seem way more comlex than it actually is, and my group still play it a few times a year (lot of nostalgia attached to it for us, sure - but it still holds up as a solid game).
If I were to attempt to create Blackbeard 2024 - more politics and historical flavour (perhaps via an Event booklet or card deck that includes things like the Port Royal earthquake, changing Monarchs and alliances, native uprisings). Privateers - make more of these guys as players or npc's and their ability to disrupt trade and upset the political balance. Governors - have the ability to become one and perhaps be able to influence and pay others to stop trading with or chase down your rivals. More ability to hire better crews, and be able to steal them from other players as you bocome more successful. Keep the hexes and same style of map. Maybe add some Inland rules - being able to sack Cartagena or even search for Incan gold and silver (possibly bring in some elements of Berg's 'Conquistador' in this respect?). Plenty more stuff to add, but at this rate it could end up playing more like Tanto Monta than the original Blackbeard!
Yeah much of what you've said here is what I have in mind too! In short, I want more depth and breadth, but without cumbersome and fiddly counters/rules. Depth of experience, without a huge upkeep of admin...
@@WiseGuyHistory Berg's 'Conquistador' springs to mind - some brilliant mechanisms but lots of admin, every end phase requiring multiple count ups of units on the map. Didn't seem much of an issue back then but could be much better handled now via spaces on a player board, etc..
Was also thinking about combat and the actual 'acts' of piracy. Perhaps the famouse Spanish Treasure Fleets should be able to increase their defense after each attack on them - much as they did in reality after Drake and others preyed upon them! Also, the Renown/Ferocity of a pirate should give you a roll for an auto surrender of a ship (are merchant ships really going to put up a fight every time?)
Yeah a similar thing happens in Outer Rim, each subsequent enemy ship is a little stronger...
I used to play Sid Meiers Pirates on my C-64 with Handel's Water Music playing in the background. I remember reading a book at the time called "Captain Kidd and the War Against the Pirates." Good times.
I too would love a deep pirate game that gives that feeling that Sid Meier's Pirates. Thinking of how a new game would work for me I can think of two styles of game that would work for me.
One would be a pretty close solo game that replicates Sid Meier's Pirates in that you have your ship/crew that you need to maintain and grow, have a large hex map with loads of places to explore, limited range to see ships from your ships point of view to encourage hunting and random encounters (and keep on board tokens low) and an overall political element that you also have to navigate. For me this game would need to be a slow burner that I could play for a couple of hours then save my progress, pack up and at a later time continue where I left off.
The second would be almost like GMT's SpaceCorp and could be an evenings multiplayer session. I can imagine something like the three era's in that game but instead of each "era" relating to the passage of time I think each era could be the progression of your pirate. Era 1 is a small map area where you have limited crew (like bases or Infra in SpaceCorp) and your goal is to explore, grow and gain some renown. Era 2 is where you have a larger ship and begin to cast your net wider, maybe with limited interactions with the European powers, forming alliances, raiding coastal towns etc. Then Era 3 could open up to the large map, bigger ships and crew abilities/maintenance requirements and a greater political aspect with European nation backing and the final drive to accumulate wealth.
Haven't thought it through much tbh but if something like this hit a crowdfunding or P500 then Id be all over it.
Thoroughly enjoyed your 'rant' and survey of existing Pirate games. Your observations and 'wants' closely echo my own. I thought the original 'Blackbeard' game was closest to what I wanted but Richard Berg's insane over use of 'chrome' made the game cumbersome to play. Of the second version, I'm totally with you on that. It was a bloody mess and the original board was far superior. I have for a long time been 'tinkering' with the original 'Blackbeard' because I think using the orignal board components etc...we can get very close to a more playable and enjoyable Pirate game.
That's an interesting project, I'm curious to see what you've come up with!
I'm going to need to watch this again. I was distracted and I'm not sure I gathered what it is you are asking for out of a pirate game exactly. Your passion for it is infectious though.
I loved the Sid Meier's Pirates port to the Playstation Portable. I played that game to death on the PSP. It was a near perfect port of the original game with great graphics.
The Pirate Republic is a pretty good pirate board game. Feels a lot like the Sid Meier game too.
Oh this also looks good; I'll check it out today, thanks!
I was also a C64 Sid Meier's Pirates addict as a kid. Of the numerous tabletop games I've seen, none quite reach that level of RPG depth. I think "Merchants & Marauders" has been the closest I've seen, having ship upgrades, cargo details, captain abilities, pirate hunters, national ire, etc. Although that is, at it's core, a multiplayer sandbox rather than an innately solo/pireate experience. So it still requires some extra effort and user mods & AI merchant bots for that purpose.
The Blackbeard games from AH & GMT were.. okay.. but had even less player options to experience than Merchants & Marauders. They aim directly at the pirate theme but fall short in comparison to the variety of Sid's classic computer games. They're less goofy than others, if that matters, but fall short in numerous ways. Unfortunately the later GMT version is a bit different than the original AH one - not always for the better.
I actually had this exact same discussion with friends recently. Why hasn't there been an official attempt at a Sid Meier's Pirates boardgame? Or at the very least, a serious clone?
Such a missed opportunity for a great game
It sounds like you may need to write your own :). One that I enjoy is Sir Francis Drake, but I do not think it will meet your criteria. When I want to scratch that itch of finding a ship, building a crew, and then going off to do pirate things, I play Firefly the Game. It’s big, a sandbox, and writes its own story. We play all day, love it.
well, a game designer i really have enjoyed this year is berserker games... the system he developed have brought me hundred of hours of fun and i just started playing xmas 2023...
it is called pirates and privateers, it is a print and play, honestly think it would fit you very well - has a lot of the things you want in a pirate game but it is also print and play so component quality is only so good
@@MrGeneralPB I'll have a look, thanks!
Despite not being born yet in the eighties, C64 was my first computer/game system. My games were on tapes. I still have the computer in working condition. Nowadays I can load games from an SD card with SD2IEC. I haven't played with it for a long time though because games that old kinda suck hard if we're being completely honest. Sorry for not engaging with the actual topic of the video.
Yeah I think it was maybe 2021 or 2022 when I got a C64 emulator. I have MANY amazing memories of the C64; it was all I had as a kid and played a LOT of games on it,
Did he say “a small pinnace”?
Very ambitious of you, not sure how to fit the dueling in. Fixing Blackbeard problems should give you a good place to start. It is so long since I played the AH version, I can't remember all the issues. I do remember scurvy was a pain and no fun. Cards always seem to be a way to add a lot of different elements to a game. I am interested where this could go.
Yeah I was thinking just smash Blackbeard, Merchants and Marauders [mainly just remove the 'Merchants'], Maracaibo and Dead Reckoning all together! They all have great aspects, but I want something with ALL OF IT together! :-D
For a more historical multi-player approach may I recommend "Lords of the Spanish Main" by Sierra Madre Games. A Typical Phil Eklund design it, therefore, requires a degree of creative rules interpretation. The components leave a bit to be desires as well.
Wasn't that the inspiration behind Pax Porforiana, or one of the other Pax games? I seem to recall reading about it somewhere in the editors notes to one of my Eklund games...?
@@WiseGuyHistory "Lords of the Sierra Madre" 1st and 2nd edition is what eventually became Pax Porfiriana.
@@louflelli1177 Oh this looks good, and republished in 2024 as boardgamegeek.com/image/7207088/pax-hispanica
@@WiseGuyHistory Quite a big difference between the "Lords of ..." and the "Pax ,,," designs. I'll lend you my copy if you are interested in looking at the 2006 original.
Huge thanks @louflelli - I'm reading the rules for Pax Hispania now!
Black sails is pretty good for such a super light game, it's not going to scratch your itch of course.
The play arc in Sid Meier's game is much better suited to a computer game IMO, it's a solitary RPG experience. It essentially has all those dumb charts from Blackbeard in the background with the process done painlessly. The solitaire only games seem to make most sense - what's the competition/interaction between pirates? Are they just racing for points? Anyway I'm not a pirate fan, over romanticised losers most of whom get hanged, but I wish you success in your search!