Honestly I like WDADU, it sounds like a good band still trying to develope their own sound, but with some very audible Rush worship going on instrumentally.
I still have the cassete that a long hair kid gave me in 1989 in the cafeteria of WSTC (Waterbury State Technical College) and I had most of the band members sign it. Still need Domenici, Moore and Sherinian to sign the inside lyric sleeve. Been a fan since then but had no money to se them until the Awake tour!
A totally underrated band in progmetal is the German band Vanden Plas. They make music on a level like Dream Theater or Symphony X. I was totally happy, when I found them.
As a fellow Dream Theater fan, I'm really glad that I found your channel. This is a really well-researched piece on the band and prog in general. I specifically like your track picks off of "Awake". Thanks and best wishes from Iran.
Great in depth information here, I commend you for taking on this monumental task... it's definitely a difficult topic. I think my favorite thing about progmetal is it's ability to take you on musical journeys in unexpected ways. It's very satisfying. Especially for musicians like us, many casual music listeners don't understand the appeal. Similar to the way some don't hear jazz.
CKN was one of my earliest influences (one of my channel's running gags is me referring to him as my dad), and I really liked editing the part where I play the clip of "Never Enough" and duck the audio while I play the clip of him.
No offense to the rest of the band but the day James Labrie is not singing in a Dream Theater album, its not Dream Theater anymore. If i can get over Mike Portnoy leaving for Mangini, i could say the same thing about Myung, JP, and Rudess. I can't and will not say the same thing if they have another singer. James Labrie is Dream Theater.
Amazing job man, I can tell you put a ton of work into this. Just watched every minute of it. When I saw the video title and length, I'll admit I was triggered as a DT fan as I thought you were about to tear them apart for 80 minutes!
What a fantastic video, very impressive. Have loved DT since IAW. They helped get me through the 90s musically. It's a shame James can't sing anymore. When Devin sang TSCO we got a glimpse of how incredibly great this band could be with a good singer.
An 1:21:26 minutos talking about DT I have two things to say: 1. not talking about A Change Of Seasons, the 23 minute song and why they make that album. 2. The worst that happens to DT is the "fandom".
Great Video, very well explained and executed. Curious as to why Genesis, (at least 70's Genesis) wasn't included in your take of Prog. While not as over the top as Yes, gentle Giant or ELP, they did have some great intricate playing and musicianship (Dance on a Volcano) with a few longer songs and concepts, (Suppers Ready, One for the Vine) and later more pop elements (Home by the Sea). Also, for anyone who wants a toned down version of Prog, I'd suggest Genesis' "And Then There Were Three", Yes's "90125" and Marillion's "Misplaced Childhood", "Brave" or "Marbles".
my recent DT consumption got this recommend to me, long time DT enjoyer,I effing loved this video my man will have to go back and find the liquid tension albums now subbed, liked, looking forward to seeing some more content
This pretty much hits the nail on the head for how I felt about the Mangini era. I would listen to ADToE and a few tracks off The Astonishing and the self-titled, think "yep, still pretty good," then also think "but there's not much I'm getting here that we don't already have on the prior albums." Didn't help that between Portnoy leaving and the Twelve Step saga (one of my favorite series of songs) coming to a conclusion, Black Clouds ended up feeling like a good stopping point for my adventure with their music. You've convinced me to still at least give the newer albums another try sometime though and see what gems are there.
Why James Labrie is cheesy? What does cheesy means (I am not an english native speaker, so I am not sure)? Is it like pretending or too dramatic? One of the things that I like the most about DT is James Labrie's singing. That's why I love the old DT era in contrast with the middle era than usually fans find the most apealing. That's the reason why I also love The Astonishing, where Labrie went outside the confort zone trying to make voices for different characters (although I do agree that that album is way too long, it should have been shorter and I have found a bunch of places in the album that I get bored listen to). Listen to Three Days for example, such good voices switch. The thing is, I do not agree on the separation Fin did there on Pop vs Prog in terms of the singer. I think about the vocals like one more instrument. I try not to distinguish between instruments vs vocals, although composition-wise it seems that DT has always composed music that way (thinking like two separate entities). Although there are some sections where the two are really well intertwined. There might be a natural physiological tendency of listening to music distinguishing what happens in the vocals, lyric-wise, and in the music. But I also think that through many listenings, one can relate to the general picture and see how the layers complement each other, without giving different hierarchies to the entities. I do agree on the separation between artist, art-listener, and fanbase, and the opinions of what each actor may have in this respect are naturally different. A prog band that I think is closer of treatening vocals as one more instrument composition-wise is Ayreon (since I don't think DT does this on purpose when they craft it, although it may happen to the listener while enjoying their music). It even plays with different vocalist and instruments together :D
Good job man! This deserves way more views. I'm pretty much a lifelong prog metal fan -- bands like Dream Theater, Opeth, Symphony X, and several prog-death bands (Death, Atheist, Gojira) defined my teen years. And while I've significantly expanded my musical tastes since then, prog metal will always have a special place in my heart. Also, in regards to the Finn video: what annoyed me the most was that half of his examples weren't even associated with prog at all. I seem to remember him including a lot of instrumental metal or power metal artists that he just threw into the mix because "eh, they wank a lot, so they're prog!" And sure, I understand that there's overlap there, but I would never call someone like Yngwie Malmsteen prog metal... no matter how much of a technical wizard he is
Check "Red Vector - 22.06", it is Russian progressive metal 22+ minute epic about the war between Germany and USSR, with some level of Dream Theater influence. Other songs from the Red Vector's album are more like Progressive Rock than Metal, but still include some metal parts too.
Very well done, the layout and pacing of this video was great. I'm not that passionate about judging Dream Theater as I'm just a casual fan of prog, but I do listen to a fair amount of technical death metal which is certainly proggy in its own right. I do LOVE some DT songs like Pull Me Under and The Glass Prison but I could never "get into" them if that makes any sense. So, I don't really understand why some people fan boi themselves over their material. That being said, I also don't have a lot of favorite entire band discographies. I find myself listening to a lot of stuff that came out in the late 90's early 00's and don't much care for new stuff coming out. Sounds watered down or something, or just incorporating things for the sake of it, like when prog metal bands started putting saxophone solos in, lol. Just not my thing but I'm just an older simpleton. Great video though, very entertaining.
@@RanterInShades yeah I commented a little early in your commentary on it. I think we pretty much agree. I saw them on that tour, one of three times I've seen them play, and it was a ton of fun. It translated well to a theater, as you might expect.
Rudess, Portnoy and Petrucci appear to be the core that drive the creative process in the band. Petrucci's latest solo release - he called in Portnoy to not only play the drums, but to help produce it. I think this is a significant part of why Portnoy was welcomed back into the band and Mangini asked to step aside. Petrucci has stated in interviews that producing Dream Theater without Portnoy was obviously harder. Their albums after Portnoy left have been missing something. We'll see what their new album brings.
Inside the first LTE vinyl, Portnoy talks more in depth about how and why Petrucci was for LTE (and how the other members were chosen too). It’s a really cool vinyl and you can probably find pictures of the inside online. Portnoy also talks about a little pause you hear at the end of 3 minute warning which has a cool little story
Jordan was my boss for a while, when I was doing iPad app development. I didn't know Dream Theater all that well before that started; and I had been to a DT show a few years before. I really love the voice of modern Fates Warning; the high-pitched stuff didn't age as well. I get why DT is a bit of an underground specialty. The songwriting and complexity of it is amazing; but the vocals are an acquired taste. (I feel similarly about Geddy Lee, John Arch, etc).
That is exactly how I found out about Dream Theater, G3 seeing John Petrucci for the first time finding out he's in a band called Dream Theater and listening to the latest album that came out ( Systematic Chaos )
Another great video where u also got out of your comfort zone, and you truly went Wendigoon in this sumbitch. I dunno Dream Theater was always a Prog Metal band that just really never appealed that much to me. But the musicianship behind the band is just immaculate. Petrucci & Portnoy are just some of the greatest musicians of their craft for a reason and I have a ton of respect for the two. I will point out that the other Prog Metal or Prog Death Metal bands that I love would be that of Black Crown Initiate RIP, Gojira, Rivers of Nihil, Ne Obliviscaris, Wilderun, Heavy Devy, Borealis, Oceans of Slumber, Cynic, Artificial Brain, Be’lakor, The Faceless, Deathbringer, Obsidious, & Alkaloid. But yes I consider Amorphis, Opeth, Nevermore, & Katatonia my fave Progressive Metal bands.
Black Crown Initiate isn't dead. While Andy and Thomas did leave, the official BCI Instagram account put out a post in June saying they missed making music together and were planning on releasing new BCI music, so it sounds like Andy and Thomas might be back in the band, or at least still involved in some way, it's unclear.
Neal Morse only gets a few seconds mention, but MP's got more albums with Morse than DT or any other band he's been with... probably combined. Some of them are truly brilliant. Grand Experiment, Similitude Of A Dream, Great Adventure, Momentum, Innocence And Danger, ?, Testimony. Don't sleep on those. And I'm not even religious.
He's been on every Morse solo album, and what are there now, five Transatlantic albums? I'm sad my boy Neal didn't get more of a shout-out on this video.
@@CroMagJohnson drove seven hours with a few close friends to see them on that tour. When they finished the Whirlwind, my buddy said "wow, that was a great show!" And I'll never forget the look on his face when I said "that's just the first song!"
Anyone ever asks me what album changed your life, it has to be Images and Words! It came out when I was still playing drums. But later became a bass player. So who can't miss with Portnoy and Myung?!
the best petrucci solo most people refer to in octavarium is actually the solo at the end of the song razor's edge
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What's up with hating on When Dream and Day Unite?! That's an awesome collection of songs. And even if we don't like the way Charlie sounds, there's always The Ytse Jam
Dream Theater is one of my all time favourite bands and when I say all time I really mean it. The only complaint is wish they got a better vocalist but nothing is lost because those musicians and I mean all are great
I love ADToE. Maybe James' best. I love DOT. I am still getting into aVFtTotW. (They have the longest damn album titles!) I will listen to all of them again many times. Mangini is top tier, and I wish him well. Plus he learned all those Portnoy songs!!! As MP said trying to learn Pneuma, "It's easier to write this shit than learn someone else's!" Long live both Mike's.Can't wait for the next one! I mean album.
I like „When Dream and Day Unite“ I’d say even more than „Images and Words“, this took me the longest gonget into. My first Album was „A Dramatic turn of Events“. I thought it was really easy to get into and to the day one of my favorites, besides this Probably „Ministry of Lost Souls“ probably made me take the DT risk (Buying all albums without knowing more). I had the most problem with their first three albums then. After ADTOE there was a fall in quality also for me, I felt they last their soul BUT still you could feel the fun they had when they recorded the albums, and quality was still top tier. Astonishing is really just too long and take too much time to get to the highlights. Fun enough when a random song drops from it I always think it’s a really good song and sounds fresh and new xD. Maybe this is the trick to this Album xD „Falling into infinity“ is probably their least progressive Album, I like it for the Pop Approach.
Actually chris collins was the first vocalist for dream theater but his vocals werent good enough so when charlie dominici left then auditioned several singers John arch of fates warning but he didnt want to join then John hendricks and steve stone who played live with the band and then chris cintron and for when dream and day unite dominici and sherinian played with the current line up called when dream and day reunite what went wrong fates warning queensryche shadow gallery savatage symphony x liege lord sanctuary nevermore metal church venom band entombed unleashed voivod razor annihilator agent steel nasty savage nuclear assault
You could also say that every album starting from Metropolis part. 2 until Octavarium transition into another. Finally Free transition to The Glass Prison, Losing Time/Grand Final transition with As I Am and In the Name of God transition in The Root of all Evil. Ater you know with the concept of Octavarium it just loop and Octavarium doesn't transition in Systematic Chaos.
Dominic was amazing singer and has 2 solo albums with a sick ass band that are extremely well done. Highly recommend them. DT self title is one of the best albums very powerful. DT is the greatest band to walk this earth. It is an honor to be alive on this earth at the same time as John Petrucci. With that being said the one band that stands out above them all and will offer you a live performance like no other is HAKEN. They happen to be some of the nicest and most humble people I ever met. Ross is the greatest singer. But you know all that is just like my opinion, man.
You would like the pianist Hermann Szobel. He came out with an album in 1976 at 18 years old and that’s all we have. It’s jazz fusion mixed with prog rock. If you like DT/Jordan you’ll like him.
I know you aren't too big of a movie guy, but since you love Prog Metal, I would like to recommend the movie Destroy All Neighbors. It's about a guy who runs into a bit of a sticky situation while trying to finish his Prog Metal passion project. It contains some very old school Prog Metal stylings.
i listened to the astonishing 1 time and haven't listened to any new dream theater since. after i listened to it, i let my cousin borrow it and enslaved - ruun. when he gave them back to me he said, "i'm not sure if ruun is the best album ever or the astonishing is just awful."
The problem is simply minded people only like simple minded music and progressive metal goes over their heads bands like Pagans mind Circus Maximus Adagio Thy majestie ect don't have chance
Ive had a DT marathon lately. Honestly I was shocked by how underwhelming the Mangini era was compared to the portnoy era. Thats mostly due to a lot of robotic artificial shit that quite frankly sounds extremely dissingenuous. I hope Portnoy coming back will bring back the soul in the band. I also hope Labrie will somehow get his shit back together. I cannot imagine Portnoy coping with his live antics anymore. Portnoy kept the band in check, and the interviews have been very interesting to say the least about the new album. I just hope that they will somehow pull through.
What's wrong with Dream Theater? Their fanbase, so it seems. And that's why fandoms for the most part belong in the toilet to be flushed, rather than to be played with. Ya know, so you don't pull you under (pun intended)
There's other ways to do technical yet engaging music. Meshuggah does all this crazy super complex songs with just a couple of notes, Queensryche is technical but the songs are still rooted is 80's more melodic catchy metal, Death found a way to do all this intrincate melodic parts without losing a shred of heavyness. Can be done.
Excellent recap of DT’s career. Only expected to check out a couple minutes and ended up watching the whole thing. For many years, I didn’t get DT and just ignored them. But 3 years ago, I gave them another chance and I’ve been hooked ever since. Bought the whole discography and have seen them live twice in that time. You have to really like the playing since that’s mostly what they’re about. But as you correctly point out, JLB brings a lot of emotion and humanity to go with the instrumental madness and is really the perfect vocalist for them.
the last name is pronounced ear with p in the front and t in the back, not purt sounding like hurt. peeeeeaaaaarrrrrrrrrt for additional pronunciation assistance.
I'm very surprised at how much you disliked Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence disk 2 considering your previous comments about loving concepts albums. That second disk is basically a concept album of its own, not too dissimilar to Scenes from a Memory, so I'm really surprised by your difference of opinion between the 2. Also as you mentioned, The Glass Prison spawned a cross-album concept all on its own, in what you called Portnoy's 12 steps suite. Also, how could you completely ignore A Change of Seasons...? 1 of their all time classics and second longest song after Octavarium. Oh yeah and how can you talk about progressive death metal and mention Periphery and Meshuggah rather than the most obvious choice: Opeth? You even did talk about djent later and Periphery, as that's where they belong. Meshuggah technically being the inventors of Djent are neither here nor there, and though they are indeed extremely technical and use a ton of tempo shifts and whatnot, which progressive metal also uses, I find they're much more akin to technical death metal for example than progressive death metal, but that's neither here nor there and pretty hard to explain without getting too deep into musical theory. Anyway, Opeth is the quintessential progressive death metal band, well at least until they decided to stop being a death metal band, and than stopped being a metal band at all, but again that's neither here nor there, and their latest album seems to have been their attempt to return to their roots, somewhat, so yeah...
@@RanterInShades Well, I guess dislike was too strong a word, but still considering everything you've said in this video this take was pretty surprising for me. Especially since this album as a whole is way more divisive among Dream Theater fans than it should be Imho, something I still don't understand as to me it's genuinely 1 of their best albums, just below Scenes from a Memory, Train of Thought and Octavarium. Considering how this video started I thought, and hoped(my own personal bias showing) that you would be 1 of those people who 'got it'(for the sake of keeping it short) regarding Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, but instead, well... Oh and by the way, as a fellow Dream Theater fan, I actually strongly recommend you give When Dream and Day Unite another chance. No, it's not your typical Dream Theater album, and not having James LaBrie's vocals on it is very striking. However it's still a pretty great album for what it was, being their first album and everything, and actually does offer a refreshingly different, more childlike for a lack of a better and longer explanation, tone. Also since you love instrumentals, you won't be disappointed with the instrumental track of that first album. Other than the instrumental track there's the very light hearted Light Fuse and Get Away, the slightly darker but still quite 'childlike' The Killing Hand and the quite wondrous The One Who Helps to Set the Sun. The entire album is pretty solid, not nearly as flashy as their later albums but it did lay a solid foundation and listening to it now after already knowing how Dream Theater evolved since than gives a nice retro moment and Imho provides an even greater appreciation for what Dream Theater has become since that original album.
Pop sucks because its all about the lyrics and the vocal melodies and those still are usually overly simplistic crap for the lowest common denominator.
Become the Knight fails to appreciate music beyond his narrow-minded preferences and demands music to be his way. Not the best mindset when it comes to defining Prog "with ease". As a RUclips "Angry Snob" gag, it's great. Can't say the same about how objective and even fair he is. He struggles to appreciate basic stuff, like what a good singer is technically speaking for example.
To say When Dream And Day Unite is considered a false start to DT career is almost a blasphemy since this album is basically DT soul and most pure incarnation. Just because they change to JL from CD (RIP) means basically nothing in terms of what is considered to be the proper DT start. Had this claim being true, they wouldn't did the When Dream And Reunite live with CD and DS as guest. The above written is just pure fact For my own taste, WDADU that is probably one of my top 5 DT. Also JP and JM were friends before Berklee, there they meet MP as teen adults. The Astonishing is a great album, is a concept story, it has to be heard all the way. I probably heard it more that 30 times back in 2014-2015 Labrie is the voice of DT, without JL there no DT
What's wrong with DT and prog? Well, they're not prog anymore. Prog is about pushing boundaries of music, doing unpredictable things, and today's prog and DT music since 2007 is not that. They're just repeating themselves and the sound that became associated with prog as a default sound. The moment that happened prog died for me. 80-90% of prog albums that I've heard since circa 2007 sound the same, new prog bands are just copying sound of DT albums from the beggining of 21st century. It's just lot of riffs, few tempo changes, few guitar, bass, keyboard solos stuffed in a 6-20 minutes songs. It became a predictable formula, boring rehash of the same ideas, it stopped growing. There are some exeptions, bands or albums that are trying to be creative, I even liked Distance over Time DT album that was suprisingly fresh compared to their previous work and I'm hopin their new album with Portnoy back will be great, but mostly prog became just a boring, overstuffed, bulky and predictable genre that is all mass and slim substance, just as Petrucci became obsessed with working out and buliding his muscles and forgot to train his musical compositions. At least it seems that way.
EVERYTHING. Now seriously, I just grew out of the high pitched style for vocals. I was obsessed with the Images & Words album, and while I still consider that one of my all time favorites I just can't bring myself to hear it again.
The LTE era, to me, encapsulates the peak of DTs fusion. Its like they finally got a key player on their level (no disrespect to KM or DS) and were inspired on every level. I dont think they lost that over the years but it diluted a little. But from 98 to 2006, they were firing on all cylinders. Then again, I'm biased because i got into them in 2000 when 6 Degrees came out. But damn, that era makes me feel nostalgic for the late 90s when it was fewer studio punch ins, fully mic and blasted amps, and more raw performances.
When dream and day unite a bad album?? And a false start? Wtf are you talking about? And who says this nonsense? Also where is "A change of seasons"???
for about recent 15 years or so, I think DT's music is not progressive. Just technical heavy, technical plays with dediocre meoldy trying to put epic story in it.
The astonishing was just anticlimactic. They set up a good story and I could handle the first album being set up and bright if the second has some sick battles done in the fashion of their solos.. But the second album is even more boring n shite but Holy crap. Way to f up the ending
Yeah for sure. I've always said that there is an incredible album in there somewhere. If only they would have consolidated it to one long disc, taken the best 15-17ish tracks, cut the fat, cut the cheese, and as you mentioned - cleaned up the ending.
Omg, so boring.. so extensive.. and I'm a huge DT fan. I mean, I appreciate the dedicated time and analysis, but I think it went too far. Even to me sounded like you were trying to convince a non-fan in terms of pure reasoning. It's just my opinion
anyone who dont consider when dream and day unite as the first album, arent real fans.
I do. I always go with what I read on the Internet.
Dude...
The Majesty demos...
There's six whole finished songs there, vocals and all, that aren't on When Dream and Day Unite
Honestly I like WDADU, it sounds like a good band still trying to develope their own sound, but with some very audible Rush worship going on instrumentally.
@@bigbugger7660 i like it. Not too happy about the vocals. Not because of the style but i dunno. Seems a bit too thin. But i love the album.
I still have the cassete that a long hair kid gave me in 1989 in the cafeteria of WSTC (Waterbury State Technical College) and I had most of the band members sign it. Still need Domenici, Moore and Sherinian to sign the inside lyric sleeve. Been a fan since then but had no money to se them until the Awake tour!
I saw Dream Theater in 2010. They were absolutely amazing! One of the most memorable shows I've ever seen.
Thank you for this video. It takes a lot of time and effort to make these. I enjoyed the whole thing!
A totally underrated band in progmetal is the German band Vanden Plas. They make music on a level like Dream Theater or Symphony X.
I was totally happy, when I found them.
@@morpheus778 I have to agree. Even their worst album, "Far off grace", is still a pretty good album. "Christ 0" is phenomenal.
Saw them live and was not impressed. Sorry.
@@bigbugger7660 I know that one, from Progressive Archives days :D it's rockin \m/
I do like them, but they are definitely not in the level of DT or SX
As a fellow Dream Theater fan, I'm really glad that I found your channel. This is a really well-researched piece on the band and prog in general. I specifically like your track picks off of "Awake". Thanks and best wishes from Iran.
Great in depth information here, I commend you for taking on this monumental task... it's definitely a difficult topic. I think my favorite thing about progmetal is it's ability to take you on musical journeys in unexpected ways. It's very satisfying. Especially for musicians like us, many casual music listeners don't understand the appeal. Similar to the way some don't hear jazz.
I love the coverkillernation vibe here haha. Really well done video dude, i enjoyed it. Props!
CKN was one of my earliest influences (one of my channel's running gags is me referring to him as my dad), and I really liked editing the part where I play the clip of "Never Enough" and duck the audio while I play the clip of him.
@@RanterInShades Haha yeah i saw the clip of him after. First time seeing a vid of yours! Again, excellent job! 🤘
No offense to the rest of the band but the day James Labrie is not singing in a Dream Theater album, its not Dream Theater anymore. If i can get over Mike Portnoy leaving for Mangini, i could say the same thing about Myung, JP, and Rudess. I can't and will not say the same thing if they have another singer. James Labrie is Dream Theater.
Amazing job man, I can tell you put a ton of work into this. Just watched every minute of it. When I saw the video title and length, I'll admit I was triggered as a DT fan as I thought you were about to tear them apart for 80 minutes!
I love everyone who involved in this band
Rythm of Time by JR is one of my favorite albums. Not a bad track, insane energy, creativity, sonic candy and kickass playing.
What a fantastic video, very impressive. Have loved DT since IAW. They helped get me through the 90s musically. It's a shame James can't sing anymore. When Devin sang TSCO we got a glimpse of how incredibly great this band could be with a good singer.
Missing A Change of Season Album😊🤟🏻
An 1:21:26 minutos talking about DT I have two things to say:
1. not talking about A Change Of Seasons, the 23 minute song and why they make that album.
2. The worst that happens to DT is the "fandom".
Great Video, very well explained and executed. Curious as to why Genesis, (at least 70's Genesis) wasn't included in your take of Prog. While not as over the top as Yes, gentle Giant or ELP, they did have some great intricate playing and musicianship (Dance on a Volcano) with a few longer songs and concepts, (Suppers Ready, One for the Vine) and later more pop elements (Home by the Sea).
Also, for anyone who wants a toned down version of Prog, I'd suggest Genesis' "And Then There Were Three", Yes's "90125" and Marillion's "Misplaced Childhood", "Brave" or "Marbles".
my recent DT consumption got this recommend to me, long time DT enjoyer,I effing loved this video my man
will have to go back and find the liquid tension albums now
subbed, liked, looking forward to seeing some more content
This pretty much hits the nail on the head for how I felt about the Mangini era. I would listen to ADToE and a few tracks off The Astonishing and the self-titled, think "yep, still pretty good," then also think "but there's not much I'm getting here that we don't already have on the prior albums." Didn't help that between Portnoy leaving and the Twelve Step saga (one of my favorite series of songs) coming to a conclusion, Black Clouds ended up feeling like a good stopping point for my adventure with their music. You've convinced me to still at least give the newer albums another try sometime though and see what gems are there.
Why James Labrie is cheesy? What does cheesy means (I am not an english native speaker, so I am not sure)? Is it like pretending or too dramatic?
One of the things that I like the most about DT is James Labrie's singing. That's why I love the old DT era in contrast with the middle era than usually fans find the most apealing. That's the reason why I also love The Astonishing, where Labrie went outside the confort zone trying to make voices for different characters (although I do agree that that album is way too long, it should have been shorter and I have found a bunch of places in the album that I get bored listen to). Listen to Three Days for example, such good voices switch.
The thing is, I do not agree on the separation Fin did there on Pop vs Prog in terms of the singer. I think about the vocals like one more instrument. I try not to distinguish between instruments vs vocals, although composition-wise it seems that DT has always composed music that way (thinking like two separate entities). Although there are some sections where the two are really well intertwined.
There might be a natural physiological tendency of listening to music distinguishing what happens in the vocals, lyric-wise, and in the music. But I also think that through many listenings, one can relate to the general picture and see how the layers complement each other, without giving different hierarchies to the entities.
I do agree on the separation between artist, art-listener, and fanbase, and the opinions of what each actor may have in this respect are naturally different.
A prog band that I think is closer of treatening vocals as one more instrument composition-wise is Ayreon (since I don't think DT does this on purpose when they craft it, although it may happen to the listener while enjoying their music). It even plays with different vocalist and instruments together :D
Good job man! This deserves way more views. I'm pretty much a lifelong prog metal fan -- bands like Dream Theater, Opeth, Symphony X, and several prog-death bands (Death, Atheist, Gojira) defined my teen years. And while I've significantly expanded my musical tastes since then, prog metal will always have a special place in my heart.
Also, in regards to the Finn video: what annoyed me the most was that half of his examples weren't even associated with prog at all. I seem to remember him including a lot of instrumental metal or power metal artists that he just threw into the mix because "eh, they wank a lot, so they're prog!" And sure, I understand that there's overlap there, but I would never call someone like Yngwie Malmsteen prog metal... no matter how much of a technical wizard he is
That was something BTK brought up in his response to Finn. It really drove home that Finn didn't really know what he was talking about.
Check "Red Vector - 22.06", it is Russian progressive metal 22+ minute epic about the war between Germany and USSR, with some level of Dream Theater influence. Other songs from the Red Vector's album are more like Progressive Rock than Metal, but still include some metal parts too.
Gotta love that Protest The Hero cameo!
Very well done, the layout and pacing of this video was great. I'm not that passionate about judging Dream Theater as I'm just a casual fan of prog, but I do listen to a fair amount of technical death metal which is certainly proggy in its own right. I do LOVE some DT songs like Pull Me Under and The Glass Prison but I could never "get into" them if that makes any sense. So, I don't really understand why some people fan boi themselves over their material. That being said, I also don't have a lot of favorite entire band discographies. I find myself listening to a lot of stuff that came out in the late 90's early 00's and don't much care for new stuff coming out. Sounds watered down or something, or just incorporating things for the sake of it, like when prog metal bands started putting saxophone solos in, lol. Just not my thing but I'm just an older simpleton. Great video though, very entertaining.
I enjoyed The Astonishing. It definitely isn't bad.
@@Jiggerjaw I don’t hate the album at all, I just don’t view it as one of DT’s stronger albums.
@@RanterInShades yeah I commented a little early in your commentary on it. I think we pretty much agree. I saw them on that tour, one of three times I've seen them play, and it was a ton of fun. It translated well to a theater, as you might expect.
Rudess, Portnoy and Petrucci appear to be the core that drive the creative process in the band. Petrucci's latest solo release - he called in Portnoy to not only play the drums, but to help produce it. I think this is a significant part of why Portnoy was welcomed back into the band and Mangini asked to step aside. Petrucci has stated in interviews that producing Dream Theater without Portnoy was obviously harder. Their albums after Portnoy left have been missing something. We'll see what their new album brings.
Inside the first LTE vinyl, Portnoy talks more in depth about how and why Petrucci was for LTE (and how the other members were chosen too). It’s a really cool vinyl and you can probably find pictures of the inside online. Portnoy also talks about a little pause you hear at the end of 3 minute warning which has a cool little story
FYI, Mike Portnoy is back in the band!
You didn’t watch it all did you….
Jordan was my boss for a while, when I was doing iPad app development. I didn't know Dream Theater all that well before that started; and I had been to a DT show a few years before. I really love the voice of modern Fates Warning; the high-pitched stuff didn't age as well. I get why DT is a bit of an underground specialty. The songwriting and complexity of it is amazing; but the vocals are an acquired taste. (I feel similarly about Geddy Lee, John Arch, etc).
Love the Astonishing!
That is exactly how I found out about Dream Theater, G3 seeing John Petrucci for the first time finding out he's in a band called Dream Theater and listening to the latest album that came out ( Systematic Chaos )
11:54 Bathory? Savatage!
Another great video where u also got out of your comfort zone, and you truly went Wendigoon in this sumbitch.
I dunno Dream Theater was always a Prog Metal band that just really never appealed that much to me. But the musicianship behind the band is just immaculate. Petrucci & Portnoy are just some of the greatest musicians of their craft for a reason and I have a ton of respect for the two.
I will point out that the other Prog Metal or Prog Death Metal bands that I love would be that of Black Crown Initiate RIP, Gojira, Rivers of Nihil, Ne Obliviscaris, Wilderun, Heavy Devy, Borealis, Oceans of Slumber, Cynic, Artificial Brain, Be’lakor, The Faceless, Deathbringer, Obsidious, & Alkaloid.
But yes I consider Amorphis, Opeth, Nevermore, & Katatonia my fave Progressive Metal bands.
Nevermore is good I don't really think of them as prog metal though lol.
Black Crown Initiate isn't dead. While Andy and Thomas did leave, the official BCI Instagram account put out a post in June saying they missed making music together and were planning on releasing new BCI music, so it sounds like Andy and Thomas might be back in the band, or at least still involved in some way, it's unclear.
@@TheRealJoeNathan I stand corrected.
26:51 yes you're counting it wrong - it's 7/8, 4/4, 7/8, 7/8 (which actually sums to 29)
And the next section is 4/4+7/8, so yes, 15/8 in total (but note that the motif is 7/8, just adding a note more here and there)
Much appreciated, sir!
Panic Attacks have The Number of The Beast Vibes❤
Neal Morse only gets a few seconds mention, but MP's got more albums with Morse than DT or any other band he's been with... probably combined. Some of them are truly brilliant. Grand Experiment, Similitude Of A Dream, Great Adventure, Momentum, Innocence And Danger, ?, Testimony. Don't sleep on those. And I'm not even religious.
He's been on every Morse solo album, and what are there now, five Transatlantic albums? I'm sad my boy Neal didn't get more of a shout-out on this video.
@@Jiggerjaw i've been rocking the whirlwind in my car since the 4th of july. i can't seem to take it out of the cd player.
@@CroMagJohnson one of my all time favorite songs, and it grabs you straight away with those Portnoy drum fills.
@@Jiggerjaw hell yeah! it's one of my favorites too. in 2010 i bought a bunch of copies and gave them to my friends.
@@CroMagJohnson drove seven hours with a few close friends to see them on that tour. When they finished the Whirlwind, my buddy said "wow, that was a great show!" And I'll never forget the look on his face when I said "that's just the first song!"
Anyone ever asks me what album changed your life, it has to be Images and Words! It came out when I was still playing drums. But later became a bass player. So who can't miss with Portnoy and Myung?!
the best petrucci solo most people refer to in octavarium is actually the solo at the end of the song razor's edge
What's up with hating on When Dream and Day Unite?!
That's an awesome collection of songs.
And even if we don't like the way Charlie sounds, there's always The Ytse Jam
Great video.
Thanks and keep up the good work.
Great 👍🙏👽
Dream Theater is one of my all time favourite bands and when I say all time I really mean it.
The only complaint is wish they got a better vocalist but nothing is lost because those musicians and I mean all are great
Listen to learning to live and then you’ll think otherwise about LaBrie being a bad vocalist
I love ADToE. Maybe James' best. I love DOT. I am still getting into aVFtTotW. (They have the longest damn album titles!) I will listen to all of them again many times. Mangini is top tier, and I wish him well. Plus he learned all those Portnoy songs!!! As MP said trying to learn Pneuma, "It's easier to write this shit than learn someone else's!" Long live both Mike's.Can't wait for the next one! I mean album.
I guess I missed the part where you talked about what is wrong with prog lol.
The arrogance of the fan base (not the bands' fault) and perceived technical wankery.
7:11 That's Richard Wright,Syd Barret is the on right side of the picture wearing glasses.
I like „When Dream and Day Unite“ I’d say even more than „Images and Words“, this took me the longest gonget into. My first Album was „A Dramatic turn of Events“. I thought it was really easy to get into and to the day one of my favorites, besides this Probably „Ministry of Lost Souls“ probably made me take the DT risk (Buying all albums without knowing more). I had the most problem with their first three albums then. After ADTOE there was a fall in quality also for me, I felt they last their soul BUT still you could feel the fun they had when they recorded the albums, and quality was still top tier. Astonishing is really just too long and take too much time to get to the highlights. Fun enough when a random song drops from it I always think it’s a really good song and sounds fresh and new xD. Maybe this is the trick to this Album xD „Falling into infinity“ is probably their least progressive Album, I like it for the Pop Approach.
Actually chris collins was the first vocalist for dream theater but his vocals werent good enough so when charlie dominici left then auditioned several singers John arch of fates warning but he didnt want to join then John hendricks and steve stone who played live with the band and then chris cintron and for when dream and day unite dominici and sherinian played with the current line up called when dream and day reunite what went wrong fates warning queensryche shadow gallery savatage symphony x liege lord sanctuary nevermore metal church venom band entombed unleashed voivod razor annihilator agent steel nasty savage nuclear assault
Black clouds & silver linings is top tier imo
11:55 Was it intentional or by accident that you put a photo of Savatage instead of Bathory?
You could also say that every album starting from Metropolis part. 2 until Octavarium transition into another. Finally Free transition to The Glass Prison, Losing Time/Grand Final transition with As I Am and In the Name of God transition in The Root of all Evil. Ater you know with the concept of Octavarium it just loop and Octavarium doesn't transition in Systematic Chaos.
Dominic was amazing singer and has 2 solo albums with a sick ass band that are extremely well done. Highly recommend them. DT self title is one of the best albums very powerful. DT is the greatest band to walk this earth. It is an honor to be alive on this earth at the same time as John Petrucci. With that being said the one band that stands out above them all and will offer you a live performance like no other is HAKEN. They happen to be some of the nicest and most humble people I ever met. Ross is the greatest singer. But you know all that is just like my opinion, man.
Haken was a blast to see live the two times I did.
You would like the pianist Hermann Szobel. He came out with an album in 1976 at 18 years old and that’s all we have. It’s jazz fusion mixed with prog rock. If you like DT/Jordan you’ll like him.
I know you aren't too big of a movie guy, but since you love Prog Metal, I would like to recommend the movie Destroy All Neighbors. It's about a guy who runs into a bit of a sticky situation while trying to finish his Prog Metal passion project. It contains some very old school Prog Metal stylings.
I've actually been inching my way into becoming the movie buff I like to pretend like I am, and I always appreciate movie recs.
i listened to the astonishing 1 time and haven't listened to any new dream theater since. after i listened to it, i let my cousin borrow it and enslaved - ruun. when he gave them back to me he said, "i'm not sure if ruun is the best album ever or the astonishing is just awful."
I feel like 50:04 potnoy did the best decision, wish the other guy’s followed his steps and came back flawlessly multiple years later
change of seasons?
I never actually listened to Change of Seasons for basically the same reason I mentioned in the Six Degrees segment, the intimidating runtime.
@@RanterInShades it's shorter than octavarium i believe.
@@syedishrak8092 Good point.
@@RanterInShades indeed. you must listen to it.
@@RanterInShadesTop 3 DT song for me, and I’ve listened to all of them!
The problem of dream theater is not having Symphony X vocalist.
I don't know if it'll work though. But it does actually look legendary on paper.
I don't think Russell Allen will want to do it.
No please, let Russell in Symphony X, he is key. Dream Theater can have Jorn Lande, tho
That's the problem with every band, yes.
The problem is simply minded people only like simple minded music and progressive metal goes over their heads bands like Pagans mind Circus Maximus Adagio Thy majestie ect don't have chance
Excellent video. Amazing effort.
Ive had a DT marathon lately. Honestly I was shocked by how underwhelming the Mangini era was compared to the portnoy era. Thats mostly due to a lot of robotic artificial shit that quite frankly sounds extremely dissingenuous. I hope Portnoy coming back will bring back the soul in the band. I also hope Labrie will somehow get his shit back together. I cannot imagine Portnoy coping with his live antics anymore. Portnoy kept the band in check, and the interviews have been very interesting to say the least about the new album. I just hope that they will somehow pull through.
Portnoy also contributed a LOT to the songwriting, and that's what's leaving me pretty confident.
Mangini = Portnoy - Bonham
What's wrong with Dream Theater? Their fanbase, so it seems.
And that's why fandoms for the most part belong in the toilet to be flushed, rather than to be played with.
Ya know, so you don't pull you under (pun intended)
"A middle ground can be reach reached when writing songs that have technical riffs and catchy hooks."
*immediately thinking of Polyphia*
Immediately thinking of Nevermore and Symphony X
For me, it was Porcupine Tree that came to mind.
There's other ways to do technical yet engaging music. Meshuggah does all this crazy super complex songs with just a couple of notes, Queensryche is technical but the songs are still rooted is 80's more melodic catchy metal, Death found a way to do all this intrincate melodic parts without losing a shred of heavyness. Can be done.
A Nightmare to Remember was based on Petrucci's car accident, not Portnoy's.
Probably meant to say Petrucci there, thanks.
Two words : James LaBrie.
What’s wrong with Dream Theater? Absolutely nothing! 👍🏼
1:06:31 As someone who’s favorite band is TMBG I feel called out now. (JK, I know they’re not for everyone)
You have quite narrow spotlight really, nothing wrong in Dream Theater music, I like it too, but there are much more in this area..
Excellent recap of DT’s career. Only expected to check out a couple minutes and ended up watching the whole thing.
For many years, I didn’t get DT and just ignored them. But 3 years ago, I gave them another chance and I’ve been hooked ever since. Bought the whole discography and have seen them live twice in that time.
You have to really like the playing since that’s mostly what they’re about. But as you correctly point out, JLB brings a lot of emotion and humanity to go with the instrumental madness and is really the perfect vocalist for them.
46:01 Petrucci was in the car accident.
Not portnoy
the last name is pronounced ear with p in the front and t in the back, not purt sounding like hurt. peeeeeaaaaarrrrrrrrrt for additional pronunciation assistance.
**yawns**
I'm very surprised at how much you disliked Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence disk 2 considering your previous comments about loving concepts albums. That second disk is basically a concept album of its own, not too dissimilar to Scenes from a Memory, so I'm really surprised by your difference of opinion between the 2. Also as you mentioned, The Glass Prison spawned a cross-album concept all on its own, in what you called Portnoy's 12 steps suite. Also, how could you completely ignore A Change of Seasons...? 1 of their all time classics and second longest song after Octavarium. Oh yeah and how can you talk about progressive death metal and mention Periphery and Meshuggah rather than the most obvious choice: Opeth?
You even did talk about djent later and Periphery, as that's where they belong. Meshuggah technically being the inventors of Djent are neither here nor there, and though they are indeed extremely technical and use a ton of tempo shifts and whatnot, which progressive metal also uses, I find they're much more akin to technical death metal for example than progressive death metal, but that's neither here nor there and pretty hard to explain without getting too deep into musical theory. Anyway, Opeth is the quintessential progressive death metal band, well at least until they decided to stop being a death metal band, and than stopped being a metal band at all, but again that's neither here nor there, and their latest album seems to have been their attempt to return to their roots, somewhat, so yeah...
I never said I disliked it, just that I found it intimidating for the longest time.
@@RanterInShades Well, I guess dislike was too strong a word, but still considering everything you've said in this video this take was pretty surprising for me. Especially since this album as a whole is way more divisive among Dream Theater fans than it should be Imho, something I still don't understand as to me it's genuinely 1 of their best albums, just below Scenes from a Memory, Train of Thought and Octavarium. Considering how this video started I thought, and hoped(my own personal bias showing) that you would be 1 of those people who 'got it'(for the sake of keeping it short) regarding Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, but instead, well...
Oh and by the way, as a fellow Dream Theater fan, I actually strongly recommend you give When Dream and Day Unite another chance. No, it's not your typical Dream Theater album, and not having James LaBrie's vocals on it is very striking. However it's still a pretty great album for what it was, being their first album and everything, and actually does offer a refreshingly different, more childlike for a lack of a better and longer explanation, tone. Also since you love instrumentals, you won't be disappointed with the instrumental track of that first album. Other than the instrumental track there's the very light hearted Light Fuse and Get Away, the slightly darker but still quite 'childlike' The Killing Hand and the quite wondrous The One Who Helps to Set the Sun. The entire album is pretty solid, not nearly as flashy as their later albums but it did lay a solid foundation and listening to it now after already knowing how Dream Theater evolved since than gives a nice retro moment and Imho provides an even greater appreciation for what Dream Theater has become since that original album.
I make post rock instrumental, all I get is hate.
Is Obscura progressive metal? I think they are. They’re definitely talented
What's wrong Dream Theater?
They got Mike Portnoy back for some unknown inexplicable reason!!!
🤔
Pop sucks because its all about the lyrics and the vocal melodies and those still are usually overly simplistic crap for the lowest common denominator.
They became a Christian rock happy shit band..thanks to MP it looks like they are back
I thought Mark Varney was shrapnel records? Cool video btw.
@@elementsofphysicalreality He founded Shrapnel as well.
Become the Knight fails to appreciate music beyond his narrow-minded preferences and demands music to be his way. Not the best mindset when it comes to defining Prog "with ease". As a RUclips "Angry Snob" gag, it's great. Can't say the same about how objective and even fair he is. He struggles to appreciate basic stuff, like what a good singer is technically speaking for example.
I meant that he has an easier time explaining its intricacies than I do.
@@RanterInShades I think that you did just fine in your own words 🙂
7:11 it is not Syd Barrett, he is in green
@@EvgenySmirnovVersus Makes sense. Seemed like a similar enough face to the other pic.
Nothing. Next.
To say When Dream And Day Unite is considered a false start to DT career is almost a blasphemy since this album is basically DT soul and most pure incarnation. Just because they change to JL from CD (RIP) means basically nothing in terms of what is considered to be the proper DT start. Had this claim being true, they wouldn't did the When Dream And Reunite live with CD and DS as guest.
The above written is just pure fact
For my own taste, WDADU that is probably one of my top 5 DT.
Also JP and JM were friends before Berklee, there they meet MP as teen adults.
The Astonishing is a great album, is a concept story, it has to be heard all the way. I probably heard it more that 30 times back in 2014-2015
Labrie is the voice of DT, without JL there no DT
What's wrong with DT and prog? Well, they're not prog anymore. Prog is about pushing boundaries of music, doing unpredictable things, and today's prog and DT music since 2007 is not that. They're just repeating themselves and the sound that became associated with prog as a default sound. The moment that happened prog died for me. 80-90% of prog albums that I've heard since circa 2007 sound the same, new prog bands are just copying sound of DT albums from the beggining of 21st century. It's just lot of riffs, few tempo changes, few guitar, bass, keyboard solos stuffed in a 6-20 minutes songs. It became a predictable formula, boring rehash of the same ideas, it stopped growing. There are some exeptions, bands or albums that are trying to be creative, I even liked Distance over Time DT album that was suprisingly fresh compared to their previous work and I'm hopin their new album with Portnoy back will be great, but mostly prog became just a boring, overstuffed, bulky and predictable genre that is all mass and slim substance, just as Petrucci became obsessed with working out and buliding his muscles and forgot to train his musical compositions. At least it seems that way.
EVERYTHING.
Now seriously, I just grew out of the high pitched style for vocals. I was obsessed with the Images & Words album, and while I still consider that one of my all time favorites I just can't bring myself to hear it again.
The LTE era, to me, encapsulates the peak of DTs fusion. Its like they finally got a key player on their level (no disrespect to KM or DS) and were inspired on every level. I dont think they lost that over the years but it diluted a little. But from 98 to 2006, they were firing on all cylinders. Then again, I'm biased because i got into them in 2000 when 6 Degrees came out. But damn, that era makes me feel nostalgic for the late 90s when it was fewer studio punch ins, fully mic and blasted amps, and more raw performances.
You missed A change of Seasons!!! Blasphemy!!!
nothing!
When dream and day unite a bad album?? And a false start? Wtf are you talking about? And who says this nonsense? Also where is "A change of seasons"???
for about recent 15 years or so, I think DT's music is not progressive. Just technical heavy, technical plays with dediocre meoldy trying to put epic story in it.
The astonishing was just anticlimactic.
They set up a good story and I could handle the first album being set up and bright if the second has some sick battles done in the fashion of their solos..
But the second album is even more boring n shite but Holy crap. Way to f up the ending
Yeah for sure. I've always said that there is an incredible album in there somewhere. If only they would have consolidated it to one long disc, taken the best 15-17ish tracks, cut the fat, cut the cheese, and as you mentioned - cleaned up the ending.
1:21 hours to state why something is wrong. Pass
Omg, so boring.. so extensive.. and I'm a huge DT fan. I mean, I appreciate the dedicated time and analysis, but I think it went too far. Even to me sounded like you were trying to convince a non-fan in terms of pure reasoning. It's just my opinion
Nothing
Whats wrong with DT?
James. Its James, spefically live James
i never could stand with the vocals in DT.
U said "leftist" I stopped the video. Just dumb. lol
Almost like it was a dumb joke or something if the Woody laugh at the end wasn't enough of an indicator.
@@RanterInShades Yeah, yeah, of course... lol
Yes is Prog. King Crimson is Prog. Genesis is Prog. Prog Metal is not Prog.
If metal is a variant of rock, then prog metal is a variant of prog rock. It's as simple as that.
Yeah it is. Literally in the name so don't be that person
@@claytondenton2385 National socialism isn't socialism. Democratic Republic of Congo isn't democratic. Poor argument.
You are wrong.
@@Jiggerjaw YOU are wrong
Best contents in youtube regardng Prog Metal!!!!