I'm an old slow rider, I've put a Showa A kit on 2 different bikes and it was worth it all, I bought them used though and recovered the money when I sold them. I did have to get both set up for my slowness, which took 3 tries on the first set.
I just bought a bike with not quite a kit suspension but it’s nowhere near modified stock either and I can definitely say that as an A rider off-road and a C rider when I ride moto kit suspension makes a HUGE difference. It’s all in setup. You can have really great stock stuff and terrible kit suspension. Or vice versa. The reality of this is is that you should learn and understand what your bike is doing and how to affect it. Especially as a privateer because you can get HUGE advantages through suspension setup. Lots of people either have no idea how to tune it and just ride it as it is from their suspension guy or they pay big bucks for a guy to come out for track testing. If you’ve dialed the stock suspension and are still looking for more then A kit is far and above worth it. The only way you can truly know is to learn to tweak your suspension yourself at the track. Otherwise your just paying for someone’s opinion.
Plus even if you pay big money to have a suspension guy come test it at the track with you, it will be different one day to the next at different tracks and as you progress as a rider.
@@bradensharp7076 exactly so unless you’ve got real deep pockets it can save you A LOT of money and A LOT of seconds on your lap time to learn to tune your own suspension. 🤘🏻🤙🏻👊🏻
Would a better test be with a control bike with upgraded stock suspension. Then compare the two bikes to get a feeling if $10,000. is better than revalved suspension.
I bought AMA supercross rider, Chris Blose's Factory A kit back in 2012. No one in UK knew how to tune REAL A kit. Sent it back to Pro-circuit for revalve and tuning. I would say it was well worth the 4k i paid for forks and shock. The ability to hold the throttle on while cornering without it stepping out was amazing. It was as though the bike was on rails. I could ride much faster lap times than before. Also the added bonus of turning up at tracks with True A kit is just cool 😎. nowadays the suspension is worth more still than the bike . 😂 .
From my personal experience with riding “factory” suspension, one of the things I wanted to mention is that for a rider it is hard to judge suspension with a different riders bike, because if you are a slower/faster rider the suspension has to be different from the riders bike you are riding, because every rider has their own speed and their own suspension setup. Like for me, i have rode with my dads bike witch has totally different suspension setup and it is really bad because that suspension isnt setup for me and the way i attack bumps and corners , and it would definetally be the same if my dad rode with my suspension. In conclusion the suspension doesn’t have to be “factory” for it to be the best for you, because the way you adjust it is the most important.
I would agree with that, I shared my 4 bikes with my younger brother when I raced and I transitioned to having them all set up for him because he eventually surpassed me by a long shot. Though we are both nearly the exact same size/build our preferred set ups (what we was quickest with) was really different for the very reason you mentioned..... I can smoke him in the corners because that's my thing but he hands down gets me everywhere else... even our riding positioning though we are the same size/build is different... I'm like a fixed hood ornament on a bike in comparison to him 🤣while he seems to be able to do whatever all loosie goosy and get away with it. I can beat him in hair scrambles/enduro etc. (which there is not many of in my area) but everything else where there is a lot of...nope... he's just so good at scrubbing jumps etc. He got to the point he could beat me with my own set ups so I had everything set up for him knowing he would be even quicker at that point... and he was of course.. by a long shot.
Around 2005 - 2006 I rode Ryan Abrigo's SX bike , in AX. I was a decent INT and out weighed him by about 40lbs. He was faster , I was heavier. I spent a good 10 minutes on his bike on an AX track , and I literally got off that bike , like I felt I was cheating. It soaked up everything! I already had pro whoop speed , and that bike in 10 mins brought me to a new level. I am , and always will be a huge A-kit advocate if you can afford it , and put the time in to set it up correctly. Side note : It felt awesome the harder I pushed , but when I went on a cruiser lap , it was not comfortable.
Getting the gold valves/revalving for your shock from race tech is definitely worth it. But the forks not so much. As long as you have the correct spring rate and sag settings that's good enough for 99% of us.
@@motoweenies4431 I would highly recommend it. The shock has a much more "connected" feel to the ground and it absorbs big hits more progressively. The gold valves let the oil flow much more efficiently.
Just find a proper suspension shop. Gold valves are for vintage bikes and they work great but they can't match a good revalve from a shop like Enzo. And there is not much difference in price.
Stapes Suspension is amazing, shout out to Klint Stapes. He and his family are great and have an awesome caliber mx track. I grew up riding with him and his brothers, so cool to see him pursue his dreams in the moto industry.
From what I noticed, it has a lot about the bike's stock from the beginning. I had my CR250 done and it helped. Especially when I could feel one click making a difference. Our CRF 15, 16, 17 was always not feeling right. The '19.....Two clicks on the front and one on the rear from factory was the most confident feeling bike I've felt. Have left it that way and it's a very confident bike....which is what you're trying to buy anyway. 10k on top of a 10k bike is hard to do if not racing and sponsored imo. If you're still learning, no way, because your riding style will change making your suspension needing changing. 1500-2k?....yes
You guys are fortunate having such a nice track to ride on! Way back in 1984 I rode a cap bike that had an actual works Kayaba shock on it and I couldn't even feel the bumps compared to what I had...
I do have complete Öhlins TTX Suspension on three of my bikes. It was about 4000 Euros for each bike plus some time with a suspension professional. The difference to a modified stock suspension is not huge but i love the Öhlins stuff...
I paid about 2k for forks and shock.....forks were inserts and valved for me........alot better than all the revalves I had prior......more tuneability is huge......I had them on 3 different brands......incredible suspension for same cost as high end revalve....lil bit more but worth it..... The benefit is really in the tuning and spending the time to get it right....and a good base setting.....not easy to do
Little late to the party, but this video is 100% right. I always watch pingree test bikes and every time he rides one with kit suspension, he always remarks that you need to be going fast for it to actually work. when you ride it slow and arent charging it feels super stiff and not worth the price tag. a novice rider likely wouldnt even like it because they aren't riding at speeds suited for it. a novice rider is better off spending 10k on lessons and coaching and then they may be fast enough to appreciate the suspension
That dirt looks like my home track loamy black moist soil...10 grand for suspension...u know u will appreciate it the first timeu hit a 2 an half footkicker bump going into a turn an ur forks just suck it up an ur arms dont move ur just thinking about another gear....
The work my local RG3 suspension guys did with their smart valves and other tweaks transformed my CRF450. My friends say riding it is like cheating so they also had to spend $$ on suspension. Good suspension allows everyone to ride faster and safer so it's beneficial just like the Moto Academy. If you can afford to get your suspension done for you i think it's a must. A Kit simply has low friction coatings on everything to remove sticktion, Larger valves to prevent pack with shim stack to match the rider, finer tuning with more clicks. The only down side it's also stiffer with the bigger diameter fork tubes so for a slow person could be more harsh due to less flex.
Thanks for the video !!! I bought used bikes with great suspension(maybe 4k worth of upgrades). I'm not fast but I love the plush ride, and progressive bottoming that never seems to bottom(safety for sure), I've had to make spring changes, I've bought springs from the tunner(Stillwell and Dick's), they made sure I had the right springs, and clicker settings, and even got shims for a small change from Dick's, service after the sale from a previous owners buy, stand UP!!
Learning how to set up your bike CORRECTLY for your weight, style and terrain is the best way to start. Once you know what your doing then you can make an educated decision about upgrading.
I used yo work the AMA supercross as a flagger an then just as a floating safety worker as the one who goes on the track an helps when guys were stuck under their bike or hurt..the best part of it was the seeing the factory bike like Mcgrath honda going thru a 100 yards of whoops the motor so different sound just tuned perfect....RRRRRRRRRRRRRR...once i got racing i reallized how important suspension was....the big trick was i got this pros bike thst was built an tuned for rock hard gatorback the nite before the national....an they got it so good it like a works bike the hard i hit big nasty stuff the more i enjoyed riding.. trick is if u dont know that kinda suspension action exist an dont ride really knarly national pro events u mite not need it but if ur all in an have the may i suggest the forks an a nice chardonay
For young guys, they're paying for comfort-at-speed and really it comes back to ROI-- if you think you've got what it takes to be a pro and make your money back on it, then maybe that $10k isn't that risky an investment. For older riders with lingering aches and pains, I think its more worthwhile spending because the ROI is more seat time. I'd pay near 10k if i knew i wouldn't have to miss another ride day over ortho issues
But then again, just taking a few thousand of that budget to hire a good trainer would be better ROI than anything 😜 There’s a reason I will never buy that expensive of suspension, it’s because I’m really good at making any bike work. And everyone can be that way once you master technique 😎😎😎
When I watch AJ and I love his technique I always feel like he's a bit mechanical because his technique is so good almost too stiff or something compared to the upper few echelon. Love the channel though.
Loved this video .. growing up in the 70’s and 80’s on dirt bikes then changing over to super bikes you learn most things from factory are really really good just not much custom abilities . 90% of all riders will never come close to the actual limit of ability your bike has , when I got into super bikes and the speeds that you can ride comfortably on the track or street can definitely kill you thats when customization being able to change the bike to how you like really starts to matter .. 10,000 grand is a lot of money for most especially if it’s not going to make you much faster but then on Thursday night bike night in your local town you have guys showing up on the newest super bike from Say Ducati and not only does he change everything but he will throw on a ohlins top of the line suspension kit that cost 10-15 grand because it looks cool lol when people say money doesn’t buy happiness it’s because they never had any lol money definitely makes you happy when you can buy anything and customize it
I can list 10 companies right now that make products comparable (actually comparable, not matter what the price tag says) to A-Kit suspension for THOUSANDS LESS than that. Also, if you don't know anything other than gold valves, don't get gold valves. You don't even know what it does or if it's actually beneficial for your riding style. Do your research, contact competent suspension tuners, if they suggest gold valves immediately, immediately hang up the damn phone. they don't know what they're doing and they're just trying to make money off of you. A competent tuner can turn your stock suspension into something competitive 99% of the time. Suspension isn't a fashion statement, it's hydraulics and thermodynamics. take your suspension to someone who understands hydraulics and thermodynamics and they'll be able to make your suspension something worth being on top of without having to pay to put "gold" anodized pistons in your forks and shock that may or may not be the solution. in short, if you want your suspension to work but also you want a red shock spring and kashima coated fork tubes, you're wasting your hard earned money on things that do not matter. ok im done
luv my stock suspension on my 22 kx250x that cost 8g's. ride with a guy who has A kit on his 10 grand gasgas with recluse and other crap. Still rides the same.
What safety for vet riders who have cash.....maybe save a few crashes? I had an ohlins ttx kit and it was better than revalve by PC, FC for sure And if it's tuned.......gotta think it would be better in every area.......the cost vet guys can afford.....
Very late to the party, If the option to purchase a used set of A-Kit forks comes up, for a good price, I would do it all day (and have). I have raced on suspension that literally had no oil left before as well as freshly rebuilt and adjusted stock suspension, so I understand the difference between good and bad. On my 2004 rm250 with full Showa A-kit suspension, the difference was night and day, I can throw that thing into the worst situations and it soaks everything up. I am an intermediate rider at best, and still definitely notice the difference. I loaned the bike back to the person I bought it from (a pro motocross racer), and he had never ridden it with A-kit, he immediately wanted it back, and went out and switched his pro race bike to one with A-kit suspension. Am I glad I bought some used A-kit forks when I found them, hell yes, would I dump 10k into them if I didn't have unlimited money laying around, probably not.
Without a tech/ mechanic it is worthless. Most can’t, don’t know how to set their sag, even adjust their tire psi for different tracks & conditions. A pros bike is set so stiff, generally, it is unrideable.
I have ridden with both at my level as a Vet rider stock suspension set up for you is fine . Race-Tech dose a great job and was very happy with mine . The A kit is for a fast Pro Rider he will benefit from it with the long moto's . A vet rider with the A kit installed on his bike rode mine were about the same weight and he liked the Race-Tech better . I liked the A kit yes it works but not at 10,000 .
A quality suspension makes riding safer. And it makes you more confident which is more fun. The price is relative, you can take it with you to the next bike or sell them. Revalving every year costs a lot of money too. And it’s gone if you sell the bike. 102 is way off as rear sag on an sxf, way too high, fucks up the balance of the bike.
I got to buy EMX250 rider's old bike with KYB A-kit and it is incredibly good even for slow vet rider. Like AJ said, you can drive through the bumps. I would describe it very "forgiving". Not sure I would invest 10k$ though.
In my opinion it‘s worth when you do with your bike MORE than just 50 hours/year. Not when you change the bike every year with the new model, because so you get after 50 hours a new bike with a new fork. But let’s estimate you change bike even it has not 200 hours. I guess you want to have the same performance for the whole time you use the bike. But this would not work, cause after 50 hours stock forks are done and so you have to spend about 500$ every 50 hours to change the whole inside, but having still the same stock fork. With Factory forks you can do about 200 hours til you have to do the „big service“. So if your doing about 200 hours with your bike using a factory fork after the first 50 hours, you have all the time a good performace only doing the „little service“ like changing oil and dust caps ecc.
Yes it not worth it for most of us. BUT, if u want really good suspension buy it and use it for 3-4 years, then u can sell it and get most of ure money back. If u buya new bike every year and revalve it than that cost more then buying A-kit then selling it after 3 years or so. Atleast in sweden :)
Right? and who cares if you have 20 vs 48 clicks of adjustment if you use 10 of them (or not at all). Also suspension is not valved/setup correctly if you have to go either end of clicker range.
So where does Some Factory connections suspension come in definately made my bike come around not A kit but took a 2019 suzuki and made it work great still on bfrc shock
Only use it if your fast enough too. Otherwise set the sag and adjust the clickers. When the lap times are worse your clickers should be all the way out lol
Except that raw speed isn't the only benefit to that suspension. Consistency is the biggest benefit. They will work more consistently, for longer, which makes riding safer. Obviously it's not for everyone, but if someone with money to burn buys A-Kit and has it set up properly, they'll be safer.
@@chrispurdue5762 Agree. I've always hated the comment of..."It's not for a weekend warrior and won't matter." Bullshit, I guarantee if you were on it you would be safer and faster. BUT....can you afford 10g's for suspension....thats something else.
Here's the thing: do you have truly world-leading suspension tuners coming to the track with you day in and day out, swapping in different springs, shim stacks, etc, until you feel your suspension cannot be improved (or at least until the best tuner money can buy can't improve its function any further)? THAT is what factory suspension is. The reason factory suspension is better than anything we can buy isn't the hard parts, it's the decades of experience, knowledge, and testing that goes into the setup. So no, it's not what Roczen and Tomac have, even if the parts are the same (which they are close, but not quite).
If you're competing at a high level at the national level for sure. If you have the money and it's important to you, go for it but probably not truly necessary. You could drop 10K on a lot worse things imho !
I stiffened up the compression on my 20 yz250f by about 5-7 clicks on everything and man is it a big difference and much faster, i rode my buddies 21 yz450 and he thinks its stiff but was incredibly wallowy and he was much faster on my 250 than on his 450. Just stiffen your stock suspension if youre not in the A class and youll have fun
My take… and I’m a slow Veg guy at Tomahawk where this was filmed- they are worth it. I’m still slow with A kit, cause I’m old and married with children, but it makes for such a smoother ride and your not beat to death at the end of the day. Videos don’t show how brutal this track is at the end of the day… with kit stuff it makes things so much easier. Just my opinion… Perhaps a test on my old smoker sometime at tomahawk AJ? I’m the slow yz250 with the Uncle Mitch suspension with Bones old guy setting. :-)
I have an honest question for anyone willing to help. I’m currently 25, 135lbs, 5’5 (Troll Train size) I rode/raced from 4 y/o on a pw 50 stopping at 12 on a rm 85. I’ve been dying to get back into bikes for about a year now, not sure whether to pick up an old or new 125 with my bike skills being basic at this age or to go for the 250f. My goal is to be sound enough to race on weekends like the good ol’ days, any help is appreciated! Thank you guys!
I don’t think you can go wrong either way. Two stroke will force you to work a lot harder and be more precise. If you’re on a budget than 125 would be good option as well
@@AjCatanzaro right on! Didn’t expect you to be the first comment but much appreciated AJ! I figured the 125 would be the route, plus I genuinely miss the 2 stroke lol. Made my f*n night right here dude! 🤙🏻 thank you again
Nope waste of dollars done suspension work with a kits before ith the team I was on..the only difference is you have more clicks for setting up..we use to run showa A kit and yet my suspension only had gold valves and factory connection spring and sag set up and it was better then the a kit..unless you know what your doing with A kits and there at the track day in day out turning them total waste of money
Third, 10k WOW!! Are the forks made of gold? How in the heck and please explain how it could cost that much? I knew pro suspension is expensive but holy cow
@@straighttimestirrups That too. Kashima coatings alone are about $5-600 for a set of fork legs. Not to mention larger fork legs usually, billet fork lugs and shock bodies, etc.
It would be nice but only worth the price if your a very serious racer. How fast do you have to be, to be your camera man? If I beat Cam can I be the new camera man.
Dudes spend wayyyyy more then 10k on cars who don’t race. The way I see it mx is my hobby. Even as a slow vet I’m throwing on A kit just for the “fuck it” sake of it 😂😂
Learning the fine middle balance point happy medium. The real secret is to not progress, but to continue degressing when/where needed. I hope that makes sense. I hope 2 strokes get the return they deserve because I'm burnt out of 4 strokes. And please, Aj, please have some hair on your haed because it just looks weird. Sorry man, it just does. Just being honest. Please ride 2 strokes from now on. 🙏 🙏
![Digital Circus Episode 4 [TRAILER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/abZtsmMUbJo/mqdefault.jpg)
Good suspension helps keeps you out of the hospital while making you confident/faster.
I'm an old slow rider, I've put a Showa A kit on 2 different bikes and it was worth it all, I bought them used though and recovered the money when I sold them. I did have to get both set up for my slowness, which took 3 tries on the first set.
I just bought a bike with not quite a kit suspension but it’s nowhere near modified stock either and I can definitely say that as an A rider off-road and a C rider when I ride moto kit suspension makes a HUGE difference. It’s all in setup. You can have really great stock stuff and terrible kit suspension. Or vice versa. The reality of this is is that you should learn and understand what your bike is doing and how to affect it. Especially as a privateer because you can get HUGE advantages through suspension setup. Lots of people either have no idea how to tune it and just ride it as it is from their suspension guy or they pay big bucks for a guy to come out for track testing. If you’ve dialed the stock suspension and are still looking for more then A kit is far and above worth it. The only way you can truly know is to learn to tweak your suspension yourself at the track. Otherwise your just paying for someone’s opinion.
A really good take on suspension from your point of view, I definitely agree with your opinion.
Plus even if you pay big money to have a suspension guy come test it at the track with you, it will be different one day to the next at different tracks and as you progress as a rider.
@@bradensharp7076 exactly so unless you’ve got real deep pockets it can save you A LOT of money and A LOT of seconds on your lap time to learn to tune your own suspension. 🤘🏻🤙🏻👊🏻
Would a better test be with a control bike with upgraded stock suspension. Then compare the two bikes to get a feeling if $10,000. is better than revalved suspension.
I bought AMA supercross rider, Chris Blose's Factory A kit back in 2012. No one in UK knew how to tune REAL A kit. Sent it back to Pro-circuit for revalve and tuning. I would say it was well worth the 4k i paid for forks and shock. The ability to hold the throttle on while cornering without it stepping out was amazing. It was as though the bike was on rails. I could ride much faster lap times than before.
Also the added bonus of turning up at tracks with True A kit is just cool 😎. nowadays the suspension is worth more still than the bike . 😂 .
From my personal experience with riding “factory” suspension, one of the things I wanted to mention is that for a rider it is hard to judge suspension with a different riders bike, because if you are a slower/faster rider the suspension has to be different from the riders bike you are riding, because every rider has their own speed and their own suspension setup. Like for me, i have rode with my dads bike witch has totally different suspension setup and it is really bad because that suspension isnt setup for me and the way i attack bumps and corners , and it would definetally be the same if my dad rode with my suspension. In conclusion the suspension doesn’t have to be “factory” for it to be the best for you, because the way you adjust it is the most important.
I would agree with that, I shared my 4 bikes with my younger brother when I raced and I transitioned to having them all set up for him because he eventually surpassed me by a long shot. Though we are both nearly the exact same size/build our preferred set ups (what we was quickest with) was really different for the very reason you mentioned..... I can smoke him in the corners because that's my thing but he hands down gets me everywhere else... even our riding positioning though we are the same size/build is different... I'm like a fixed hood ornament on a bike in comparison to him 🤣while he seems to be able to do whatever all loosie goosy and get away with it. I can beat him in hair scrambles/enduro etc. (which there is not many of in my area) but everything else where there is a lot of...nope... he's just so good at scrubbing jumps etc. He got to the point he could beat me with my own set ups so I had everything set up for him knowing he would be even quicker at that point... and he was of course.. by a long shot.
Around 2005 - 2006 I rode Ryan Abrigo's SX bike , in AX. I was a decent INT and out weighed him by about 40lbs. He was faster , I was heavier. I spent a good 10 minutes on his bike on an AX track , and I literally got off that bike , like I felt I was cheating. It soaked up everything! I already had pro whoop speed , and that bike in 10 mins brought me to a new level. I am , and always will be a huge A-kit advocate if you can afford it , and put the time in to set it up correctly. Side note : It felt awesome the harder I pushed , but when I went on a cruiser lap , it was not comfortable.
Getting the gold valves/revalving for your shock from race tech is definitely worth it. But the forks not so much. As long as you have the correct spring rate and sag settings that's good enough for 99% of us.
did everything except for the gold valves, they make a big difference?
@@motoweenies4431 absolutely
@@motoweenies4431 I would highly recommend it. The shock has a much more "connected" feel to the ground and it absorbs big hits more progressively. The gold valves let the oil flow much more efficiently.
Just find a proper suspension shop. Gold valves are for vintage bikes and they work great but they can't match a good revalve from a shop like Enzo. And there is not much difference in price.
@@369motomanI second that I have had a lot of suspension shops work on my stuff and honestly Enzo and mb1 were my favorites but Enzo I liked the best
Stapes Suspension is amazing, shout out to Klint Stapes. He and his family are great and have an awesome caliber mx track. I grew up riding with him and his brothers, so cool to see him pursue his dreams in the moto industry.
From what I noticed, it has a lot about the bike's stock from the beginning. I had my CR250 done and it helped. Especially when I could feel one click making a difference. Our CRF 15, 16, 17 was always not feeling right. The '19.....Two clicks on the front and one on the rear from factory was the most confident feeling bike I've felt. Have left it that way and it's a very confident bike....which is what you're trying to buy anyway. 10k on top of a 10k bike is hard to do if not racing and sponsored imo. If you're still learning, no way, because your riding style will change making your suspension needing changing. 1500-2k?....yes
I love the humor you all have, the water bottle mic is gold
You guys are fortunate having such a nice track to ride on! Way back in 1984 I rode a cap bike that had an actual works Kayaba shock on it and I couldn't even feel the bumps compared to what I had...
I do have complete Öhlins TTX Suspension on three of my bikes. It was about 4000 Euros for each bike plus some time with a suspension professional. The difference to a modified stock suspension is not huge but i love the Öhlins stuff...
And you can get fork inserts for around 1500 and full forks around 2500. Ive ridden a supermoto with full ttx setup and it was very nice.
I paid about 2k for forks and shock.....forks were inserts and valved for me........alot better than all the revalves I had prior......more tuneability is huge......I had them on 3 different brands......incredible suspension for same cost as high end revalve....lil bit more but worth it.....
The benefit is really in the tuning and spending the time to get it right....and a good base setting.....not easy to do
@@kirkdunn1379 that is a good deal! Last suspension i had revalved and built for me was $1000 and i was never quite comfortable.
Suspension is where all my money goes, I haven't upgraded any other part for my last 2 bikes.
Little late to the party, but this video is 100% right. I always watch pingree test bikes and every time he rides one with kit suspension, he always remarks that you need to be going fast for it to actually work. when you ride it slow and arent charging it feels super stiff and not worth the price tag. a novice rider likely wouldnt even like it because they aren't riding at speeds suited for it.
a novice rider is better off spending 10k on lessons and coaching and then they may be fast enough to appreciate the suspension
That dirt looks like my home track loamy black moist soil...10 grand for suspension...u know u will appreciate it the first timeu hit a 2 an half footkicker bump going into a turn an ur forks just suck it up an ur arms dont move ur just thinking about another gear....
The work my local RG3 suspension guys did with their smart valves and other tweaks transformed my CRF450. My friends say riding it is like cheating so they also had to spend $$ on suspension. Good suspension allows everyone to ride faster and safer so it's beneficial just like the Moto Academy. If you can afford to get your suspension done for you i think it's a must. A Kit simply has low friction coatings on everything to remove sticktion, Larger valves to prevent pack with shim stack to match the rider, finer tuning with more clicks. The only down side it's also stiffer with the bigger diameter fork tubes so for a slow person could be more harsh due to less flex.
RG3 does great work
Still have my A-kit from RG3 I got 12 years ago. Love it.
Thanks for the video !!!
I bought used bikes with great suspension(maybe 4k worth of upgrades). I'm not fast but I love the plush ride, and progressive bottoming that never seems to bottom(safety for sure), I've had to make spring changes, I've bought springs from the tunner(Stillwell and Dick's), they made sure I had the right springs, and clicker settings, and even got shims for a small change from Dick's, service after the sale from a previous owners buy, stand UP!!
stapes suspension is awesome my friend has clint do his suspension too.
suspension is like a tool. buy the best you can afford and enjoy. saving yourself from one crash could pay for it..
In europe you can buy kyb factory kit shock And Forks from technical touch And it cost about 5300€
Ithink its pretty good deal.
Learning how to set up your bike CORRECTLY for your weight, style and terrain is the best way to start. Once you know what your doing then you can make an educated decision about upgrading.
I used yo work the AMA supercross as a flagger an then just as a floating safety worker as the one who goes on the track an helps when guys were stuck under their bike or hurt..the best part of it was the seeing the factory bike like Mcgrath honda going thru a 100 yards of whoops the motor so different sound just tuned perfect....RRRRRRRRRRRRRR...once i got racing i reallized how important suspension was....the big trick was i got this pros bike thst was built an tuned for rock hard gatorback the nite before the national....an they got it so good it like a works bike the hard i hit big nasty stuff the more i enjoyed riding.. trick is if u dont know that kinda suspension action exist an dont ride really knarly national pro events u mite not need it but if ur all in an have the may i suggest the forks an a nice chardonay
For young guys, they're paying for comfort-at-speed and really it comes back to ROI-- if you think you've got what it takes to be a pro and make your money back on it, then maybe that $10k isn't that risky an investment. For older riders with lingering aches and pains, I think its more worthwhile spending because the ROI is more seat time. I'd pay near 10k if i knew i wouldn't have to miss another ride day over ortho issues
But then again, just taking a few thousand of that budget to hire a good trainer would be better ROI than anything 😜 There’s a reason I will never buy that expensive of suspension, it’s because I’m really good at making any bike work. And everyone can be that way once you master technique 😎😎😎
When I watch AJ and I love his technique I always feel like he's a bit mechanical because his technique is so good almost too stiff or something compared to the upper few echelon. Love the channel though.
I have Stapes a-kit on my yz315. It's so good! Plus Klint is a good dude!!
Right. First money you spend is on a good rear tire (Alta), right?🤨
Loved this video .. growing up in the 70’s and 80’s on dirt bikes then changing over to super bikes you learn most things from factory are really really good just not much custom abilities . 90% of all riders will never come close to the actual limit of ability your bike has , when I got into super bikes and the speeds that you can ride comfortably on the track or street can definitely kill you thats when customization being able to change the bike to how you like really starts to matter .. 10,000 grand is a lot of money for most especially if it’s not going to make you much faster but then on Thursday night bike night in your local town you have guys showing up on the newest super bike from
Say Ducati and not only does he change everything but he will throw on a ohlins top of the line suspension kit that cost 10-15 grand because it looks cool lol when people say money doesn’t buy happiness it’s because they never had any lol money definitely makes you happy when you can buy anything and customize it
I can list 10 companies right now that make products comparable (actually comparable, not matter what the price tag says) to A-Kit suspension for THOUSANDS LESS than that. Also, if you don't know anything other than gold valves, don't get gold valves. You don't even know what it does or if it's actually beneficial for your riding style. Do your research, contact competent suspension tuners, if they suggest gold valves immediately, immediately hang up the damn phone. they don't know what they're doing and they're just trying to make money off of you. A competent tuner can turn your stock suspension into something competitive 99% of the time. Suspension isn't a fashion statement, it's hydraulics and thermodynamics. take your suspension to someone who understands hydraulics and thermodynamics and they'll be able to make your suspension something worth being on top of without having to pay to put "gold" anodized pistons in your forks and shock that may or may not be the solution. in short, if you want your suspension to work but also you want a red shock spring and kashima coated fork tubes, you're wasting your hard earned money on things that do not matter. ok im done
got Enzo to valve my 2022 kx450. it's better... :)
luv my stock suspension on my 22 kx250x that cost 8g's. ride with a guy who has A kit on his 10 grand gasgas with recluse and other crap. Still rides the same.
What safety for vet riders who have cash.....maybe save a few crashes?
I had an ohlins ttx kit and it was better than revalve by PC, FC for sure
And if it's tuned.......gotta think it would be better in every area.......the cost vet guys can afford.....
Im currently looking to get my suspension done for my Cr250. It’s completely stock. any reccomendations?
Very late to the party, If the option to purchase a used set of A-Kit forks comes up, for a good price, I would do it all day (and have). I have raced on suspension that literally had no oil left before as well as freshly rebuilt and adjusted stock suspension, so I understand the difference between good and bad. On my 2004 rm250 with full Showa A-kit suspension, the difference was night and day, I can throw that thing into the worst situations and it soaks everything up. I am an intermediate rider at best, and still definitely notice the difference. I loaned the bike back to the person I bought it from (a pro motocross racer), and he had never ridden it with A-kit, he immediately wanted it back, and went out and switched his pro race bike to one with A-kit suspension. Am I glad I bought some used A-kit forks when I found them, hell yes, would I dump 10k into them if I didn't have unlimited money laying around, probably not.
I was shocked when I rode my 1st "mono shock" yamaha in the 70's. You could buy half a dozen bikes back then for 10K.
My laptime deductions/predictions yesterday were validated by this video 🤣 Thanks!
Didn't watch the video yet but here's my .02. the pros would lap most of us even if we had the best suspension and they was on a stock bike. 🤣🤔
Without a tech/ mechanic it is worthless. Most can’t, don’t know how to set their sag, even adjust their tire psi for different tracks & conditions. A pros bike is set so stiff, generally, it is unrideable.
@@gmeyer6657 it is stiff due to the speed the run at
I have ridden with both at my level as a Vet rider stock suspension set up for you is fine . Race-Tech dose a great job and was very happy with mine . The A kit is for a fast Pro Rider he will benefit from it with the long moto's . A vet rider with the A kit installed on his bike rode mine were about the same weight and he liked the Race-Tech better . I liked the A kit yes it works but not at 10,000 .
A quality suspension makes riding safer. And it makes you more confident which is more fun.
The price is relative, you can take it with you to the next bike or sell them. Revalving every year costs a lot of money too. And it’s gone if you sell the bike.
102 is way off as rear sag on an sxf, way too high, fucks up the balance of the bike.
I got to buy EMX250 rider's old bike with KYB A-kit and it is incredibly good even for slow vet rider. Like AJ said, you can drive through the bumps. I would describe it very "forgiving". Not sure I would invest 10k$ though.
What’s b kit now ? 1500 ?
In my opinion it‘s worth when you do with your bike MORE than just 50 hours/year.
Not when you change the bike every year with the new model, because so you get after 50 hours a new bike with a new fork.
But let’s estimate you change bike even it has not 200 hours. I guess you want to have the same performance for the whole time you use the bike. But this would not work, cause after 50 hours stock forks are done and so you have to spend about 500$ every 50 hours to change the whole inside, but having still the same stock fork.
With Factory forks you can do about 200 hours til you have to do the „big service“.
So if your doing about 200 hours with your bike using a factory fork after the first 50 hours, you have all the time a good performace only doing the „little service“ like changing oil and dust caps ecc.
Yes it not worth it for most of us. BUT, if u want really good suspension buy it and use it for 3-4 years, then u can sell it and get most of ure money back. If u buya new bike every year and revalve it than that cost more then buying A-kit then selling it after 3 years or so. Atleast in sweden :)
It’s funny how pro riders don’t know anything about suspension. Ricky Carmichael was shocked to learn that McGrath never adjusted his suspension.
Right? and who cares if you have 20 vs 48 clicks of adjustment if you use 10 of them (or not at all). Also suspension is not valved/setup correctly if you have to go either end of clicker range.
I’d like to see something like a 5k suspension vs 10k suspension. Something like coatings and revalve or cartridge kit vs full a-kit replacement setup
Interesting idea!
I’m thinking of upgrading from xplor 48 to the wp 6500 closed cartridge kit. But I wonder if I should get my rear shock done by racetech
Wp should have put good suspension on to begin with. Go with mx tech blackjacks and a rear national shock.
I just wanna slam holes really fast. My account is now minus 10k... Thanks AJ!!!
😂
Are we talking about suspension here, or are we talking about a mail-order bride?? 😂 haha
difference between conevalve/öhlins vs a-kit? is it worth the extra$$
So where does Some Factory connections suspension come in definately made my bike come around not A kit but took a 2019 suzuki and made it work great still on bfrc shock
Yes if race pro i havent heard a lot about mods on the stock modern day 4 strokes
Bruh thats a whole ass KTM 300 payment 😭😭😭
Only use it if your fast enough too. Otherwise set the sag and adjust the clickers. When the lap times are worse your clickers should be all the way out lol
The average weekend warrior isn’t fast enough to benefit from that suspension.
Except that raw speed isn't the only benefit to that suspension. Consistency is the biggest benefit. They will work more consistently, for longer, which makes riding safer. Obviously it's not for everyone, but if someone with money to burn buys A-Kit and has it set up properly, they'll be safer.
@@chrispurdue5762 Agree. I've always hated the comment of..."It's not for a weekend warrior and won't matter." Bullshit, I guarantee if you were on it you would be safer and faster. BUT....can you afford 10g's for suspension....thats something else.
Not for me. I got my forks and shock revalved with the gold valve system, and heavier springs. Works for me.
What chin mounts do you guys use for the gopros?
Somebody not hating on air-forks? Am i dreaming? hahaha
I’d like to se what if Cam or other amateur tries it and what he has to say about it
I need the discount A kit
Is DT also doing online trainings for you in German?
Definitely a possibility!!
How does this 10k suspension compare to what the factory boys like Roczen and Tomac have?
I think it’s basically the same thing
Here's the thing: do you have truly world-leading suspension tuners coming to the track with you day in and day out, swapping in different springs, shim stacks, etc, until you feel your suspension cannot be improved (or at least until the best tuner money can buy can't improve its function any further)? THAT is what factory suspension is. The reason factory suspension is better than anything we can buy isn't the hard parts, it's the decades of experience, knowledge, and testing that goes into the setup.
So no, it's not what Roczen and Tomac have, even if the parts are the same (which they are close, but not quite).
Your average weekend warrior does not even have any business on a 450, much less A Kit.
looks fair to me. can't blame Sexton when there's amateurs in his way.
$10,000 is just stupid expensive. I know it’s small scale production but come on.
Video with Nique! Greets from Germany
If you're competing at a high level at the national level for sure. If you have the money and it's important to you, go for it but probably not truly necessary. You could drop 10K on a lot worse things imho !
I stiffened up the compression on my 20 yz250f by about 5-7 clicks on everything and man is it a big difference and much faster, i rode my buddies 21 yz450 and he thinks its stiff but was incredibly wallowy and he was much faster on my 250 than on his 450. Just stiffen your stock suspension if youre not in the A class and youll have fun
it's Jubilee ?
How much energy can you save over 30min moto if pro? If not pro how much is your safety worth?
I think the better question for an amateur is how much is your NET worth?
one crash with a few broke bones dwarfs A kit price...
So what A-kit was he running??? Don’t think anyone mentioned who made the kit.
kyb
My take… and I’m a slow Veg guy at Tomahawk where this was filmed- they are worth it. I’m still slow with A kit, cause I’m old and married with children, but it makes for such a smoother ride and your not beat to death at the end of the day. Videos don’t show how brutal this track is at the end of the day… with kit stuff it makes things so much easier. Just my opinion…
Perhaps a test on my old smoker sometime at tomahawk AJ? I’m the slow yz250 with the Uncle Mitch suspension with Bones old guy setting. :-)
I have an honest question for anyone willing to help. I’m currently 25, 135lbs, 5’5 (Troll Train size) I rode/raced from 4 y/o on a pw 50 stopping at 12 on a rm 85. I’ve been dying to get back into bikes for about a year now, not sure whether to pick up an old or new 125 with my bike skills being basic at this age or to go for the 250f. My goal is to be sound enough to race on weekends like the good ol’ days, any help is appreciated! Thank you guys!
I don’t think you can go wrong either way. Two stroke will force you to work a lot harder and be more precise. If you’re on a budget than 125 would be good option as well
@@AjCatanzaro right on! Didn’t expect you to be the first comment but much appreciated AJ! I figured the 125 would be the route, plus I genuinely miss the 2 stroke lol. Made my f*n night right here dude! 🤙🏻 thank you again
Ruff hard pack is the true test on suspension, that stuff is soft
Nope waste of dollars done suspension work with a kits before ith the team I was on..the only difference is you have more clicks for setting up..we use to run showa A kit and yet my suspension only had gold valves and factory connection spring and sag set up and it was better then the a kit..unless you know what your doing with A kits and there at the track day in day out turning them total waste of money
that rear shock needs to slow the rebound.
yeah holy smokes that thinks was hopping all over the place. I was thinking thats more than a sag issue but I'm not a suspension guy lol.
If you live on the east coast send your s*** to factory connection , it was good enough for Ricky Carmichael
he had factory A+ Kit stuff
I love my Factory Connection suspension! And I used them my entire amateur career as well!
I didn't know that Eminem had A-kit suspension! Good one! 😂
Best yarns yet haha
Why is that kid not out getting a 450 outdoor title
Third, 10k WOW!! Are the forks made of gold? How in the heck and please explain how it could cost that much? I knew pro suspension is expensive but holy cow
Legal robbery! People are dumb enough to fall for it.
It's really easy to get to that cost with much tighter tolerances and hard to apply coatings to reduce friction, and higher end materials.
Economy of Scale.
@@straighttimestirrups That too. Kashima coatings alone are about $5-600 for a set of fork legs. Not to mention larger fork legs usually, billet fork lugs and shock bodies, etc.
It would be nice but only worth the price if your a very serious racer.
How fast do you have to be, to be your camera man? If I beat Cam can I be the new camera man.
Albert, you've upper your game. It now takes three of you for us to learn nothing. Well done!
Schöne Sache Nique! Grüße aus Culitzsch 😄
If you have extra money get them
Unless you are racing top level pro it isn't worth it. Or if you have too much money😜
If that 10G's came with the suspension tech that can tweak it every time out it would be incredibly noticeable for most skill levels.
Bubba calls it a "doube D feel".
10000 for bike suspension. For pros maby any one else it it's only to show off
It better be worth it for $10 grand
Aye back up a little bit
That shock setup looked absolutely terrible
The dog in the intro was 🔥
Thanks, he goes crazy when I get done with riding my motos. That head butt actually stung a little
Dudes spend wayyyyy more then 10k on cars who don’t race. The way I see it mx is my hobby. Even as a slow vet I’m throwing on A kit just for the “fuck it” sake of it 😂😂
Learning the fine middle balance point happy medium. The real secret is to not progress, but to continue degressing when/where needed. I hope that makes sense. I hope 2 strokes get the return they deserve because I'm burnt out of 4 strokes. And please, Aj, please have some hair on your haed because it just looks weird. Sorry man, it just does. Just being honest. Please ride 2 strokes from now on. 🙏 🙏
What’s the intro song called
Most of what you are saying is placebo. No it’s not worth it!!
lol ...
Tyler made you guys look slow
I don’t need to watch the video to know the answer is no
Measure the jump, we're still waiting...
he did.. it was 129 or something..
@@woodysrockspyro6436 really where at?
@@BrollBrothersProductions the next vid... last week sometime i think. With him and cam
I measured it a few videos ago! 👍🏼 137ft
@@woodysrockspyro6436 found it! It was the dog video, good shit thanks for letting me know.
Just buy a Beta with the suspension already on it. Boom!
They don't come with a kit suspension
SO not worth it