Using Expansion Foam in a Plastic Boat
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
- After purchasing a Pelican Scorpio boat, I found out that it needed some extra buoyancy. The boat does have some substantial styrofoam inside, but under heavy weight it flexes too much. We decided to fill it with foam, and it was a great success. There is a reason why Boston Whalers are the best of the best, and considered unsinkable......they are full of foam. Even though foam is slightly less buoyant than air, it is extremely rigid in comparison. We merely copied the idea of what Boston Whaler does.....on the cheap. 12 cans of foam @ $4 a can, plus $5 in hole caps and a tube of silicone. Cheap fix.
Ten years later………
How has the foam handled the test of time?
As mentioned by others, adding this foam does nothing for bouyancy while the boat is afloat. It simply added weight to the boat. If the boat were to get swamped, your added foam would help it from sinking to the bottom. Also, great stuff is open cell foam that holds water should it happen to get on the inside of the hull. Boats should use close cell foam for this reason. All of that said, it looks like the value in using it was adding rigidity to the hull. For that, I say Nice Work!
Quick science lesson: Archemedes principle is that the buoyant force is equal to the weight of the water displaced. If the overall weight of the floating object is greater than the weight of the water it displaces, it will sink. If the buoyant force is greater than the weight of the water displaced, it will float. Foam insulation, although more dense than air, is much less dense than water. The foam insulation prevents water from occupying the voids inside a boat, should the hull be breached. Thus, the weight of the boat (including everything that fills its cavities) is less than the buoyant force trying to hold it up.
His next genius idea: Fill the boat with helium. I admire your restraint Nate.
@@genephipps6421 This was a walk down memory lane. So...if you replace the air between the deck and hull with something that is more dense than air, i.e., great stuff foam, it becomes MORE buoyant. No, but really, you are onto something: helium. It’s something that Wile E. Coyote (Super Genius) would try, and I admire that. 😊
@@myownspiritlevel I use helium in my car tires. My gas mileage is outta this world now! 🚗
I did this on a sail boat that keep sipping in water. The boat would get extremely heavy with water weight in the Hull. The foam filled in the Hull and the water no longer had a place to go in the hull. Worked Great
How long dit it last. Im thinking about doing the same
You got out fishing anyhow. I do wish to point out a few things;
1: Cheapo foam holds water. In case you do catch one minor leak in the undefined material plugs fastened with silicone you're in for a nasty surprise.
2: Holes in an otherwise airtight boat must be welded shut by melting same type plastic into the holes as a filler.
Assuming the boat is made from HDPE, cut up a milk jug and use as filler material in the holes and the boat would have been air tight once more.
3: The fix mentioned in tip 2 may or may not work once you've launched it with potentially unsealed quick fixes.
Sealing it now may introduce blocked in water in the boat that will eventually rot the spray foam.
4: Different materials, such as silicone and HDPE, wont mix or fasten to each other. Besides this, in my years of working with construction I have yet to find a silicone that does not eventually mold in wet environments.
Thank you for making this video - Now I understand that the buoyancy is only the amount of water displaced. Honestly I thought of doing something to increase the buoyancy of my Pelican Predator (How I found this). Still, I totally get why you thought this would increase buoyancy. Like Aarron Marr said you won't need a bilge pump since it shouldn't allow space for water in the hull & like you demonstrated the boat will be more sturdy.
Adding foam may help with rigidity but does not in any way help with buoyancy.
If you mark the water line before and after the foam addition you will see that it adds weight and therefore does not help with buoyancy unless the hull is punctured then it will displace water between the hull layers.
David W i
David W it doesn't add much weight at all, and it is basically for insuring absolute flotation in any case where water may penetrate the plastic due to a puncture or deteration of seals.
If you have a hollow boat and it leaks somehow, then it will surely sink, but if it is filled with foam it will continue to float.
It is stiffer ,, and will never sink
David. The hull flex and moves w the waves.
Adding weight sinks in the hull.
Killing buoyancy.
Foaming it fights this, thus adding bouyancy. Tape line goes up, because the hull now holds its shape.
Thanks for sharing Dr. and Dr. !
Put 6' tall strips of 4" thick insulation foam on both exterior waterline sides like a "captains collar".Double it and it will increase stability and flotation markedly.
You can add large bumpers tied around the boat for extra buoyancy(at rest). I'm not going to bash you on the foam like everyone else but you did make it more rigid, you added a small amount of weight, it's questionable whether it will fully cure, expansion foam doesn't hold up to a repeated compression load(like walking) before collapsing(ask me how I know I tried a similar experiment). As a bonus if your boat develops a large crack or hole you'll still float. Kudo's on thinking outside the box though.
Now you got a Boston whaler!! BTW, the foam only helps if you capsize. Helps keep the boat from sinking until marine patrol shows up
The canned construction foam falls apart in water. Use polystyrene foam for floatation.
Water-Resistant is not Water Proof. I called the MFG who said "We do not recommend using Great Stuff in Marine Applications". Plenty of absorption tests with Great Stuff, Polypropylene etc on boat building sites. Take the foam hat you made and weigh it. Then submerge it in water for a week and weigh it again and let me know how closed cell it is. :) Again, I think you did a great job. Just don't want people thinking it actually added any boyancy to the boat.
bok7bok3 they actually make a great stuff pond foam. Which is closed cell and labeled as waterproof. Thats what they should have used. Lol
Having said that, I do love the foam hat/wig!
I tried this experiment with a two liter coke bottle and discovered the foam would later liquefy in a sealed plastic environment.
really?
This depends on the expansion foam you are using. Always read to ensure that you are using the correct foam. The one used on my boat does not let water penetrate it. It is in a sealed plastic environment and remains solid after ten years. Still going strong.
Did you try a weak thin flismy coke bottle
Cuuuuuuuz, thats what this boat it.
Think of it as a wet waffle . Stiffing the hull is giving it buoyancy!!!
.
@@ironix1 what product did you use?
What? thats completely ridiculous, that boat is not displacing more water thus its not more buoyant, obviously, you are just adding more weight with all that foam, and that = less buoyancy...
That shit wont cure inside an airtight vessel. Some people just cant wrap their mind around displacement.He needs to get a bigger boat
I cant knock it to hard. At least you have a boat
Agree but to there defense it was mainly becuase the plastic flooring was soft as shit and the foam added maybe 3 pounds to the boat imo def better boat after the project
it doesn't add much weight at all, and it is basically for insuring absolute flotation in any case where water may penetrate the plastic due to a puncture or deteration of seals.
If you have a hollow boat and it leaks somehow, then it will surely sink, but if it is filled with foam it will continue to float. Every boat should have foam every hollow area.
grrb ur a tool it floats way bettervnow
That was a great video. You went from start to finish and to testing thank you.
The only time that foam comes into play is when it is exposed to water. If you had a 2 liter bottle with the cap on it and dropped it in water, it would float exactly the same as if it were filled with foam. If you took the cap off and allowed water inside, thus making it displace less water, of course it would sink. If you took the same bottle, filled it with foam and took the lid off, it would float. It would do this, not for any other reason than it displaces more water. The reason that foam is put into boats is only done to allow the boat to displace more water. The only time this happens is when the boat is filled with water. An example would be a boat made pre 1960, before foam was installed, doesn't float any different than one built afterward..
so yea may make it a bit less buoyant but it will stabilize the boat as a whole. They arent adding that much weight in foam, you look at all boats today they are filled with the same foam. This is a closed cell foam so wont hold onto water.
To stiffen your floor/deck, cut a piece of 3/4 inch plywood to shape and glue into place.
Foam doesn't add bouyancy. It just keeps it from sinking all the way
Awesome man!
How is the longevity of the foam addition? Did any negatives occur with time?
The added rigidity to the hull seems like a major strength factor.
I use a similar boat for Bass fishing.
Fill those holes with (marine 5200) I have a 13.5 ft whaler and am restoring it and let me say besides the bondoglass, fiberglass, 5200 is your best friend.
+brint holeman I am using it right now! It really great stuff, but it seems a little bit soft even it all dried. I think small hole with this and cover with 2mm of fiberglass will be the perfect way to restore those holes and adding strength for that area.
You were worried about the holes you drilled to fill the boat. May I suggest Plastic Welding. silicon is great as a temporary solution but sooner or later it will leak fallout or just need to be replaced. and you were correct the weight added by the foam versus its displacement and strength to the hull would mean at least a few hundred pounds difference in buoyancy.
Hi, I'm not trying to be negative but you are only increasing the strength of your boat by filling it with foam thus helping it keep its shape while under a heavier load. Buoyancy of a boat is determined by the physical displacement of water that the boat creates while it pushes down on the waters surface. The only way to increase buoyancy is by increasing the water displacement capacity of your boat. In other words, "you need to make your boat bigger"... Trust me, I know physics very well...
not only does the foam indeed add weight. the insulation foam you are using actualy holds water so any water that gets in te boat wil never come out.
Great Stuff is closed cell polyurethane, not open cell.
Nice video smart way to go these boats are decently priced for a reson but a bit of tlc and you can really make them solid for bass and even mangrove fishing for snapper
BTW.... Filling the boat hull with foam is going to add weight to the boat it's actually going to float lower.
The only way to ADD buoyancy is to add floats to the outside to lift the boat up!
Yep.. or make the hull bigger to displace more water.
Thats the basic priciple of how Boston Whalers are made. 2 plastic pieces with foam sandwiched in between. Super rough on the ocean but virtually unsinkable even upside down.
"We're gonna need a bigger boat"
uumm........ buoyancy of the boat is tied to water displacement. This boat is the same after the ''upgrade'' except it's more weight than before for the same displacement......so you might have to leave a four pack home because this briliant idea. Also the boats you are refering to are designed to be buoyant even if full of water, like designed before it was built, you know, with math and stuff.
I've done this to 3 boats. 2 pelicans and a bass hound. I don't know why they don't inject foam from the factory. Instead they put blocks of foam in the big cavities.
Buoyancy is relative to water displaced.
Filling the boat with foam made it structurally more rigid but no more buoyant.
The foam fill also made it less likely to sink if you cracked the hull on a rock or floating tree branch.
But without more water displacement; such as additional floatation devices attached to the outside of the hull, your buoyancy was not increased...
you are forgetting density, which buoyancy is also tied to. things that have a lower density then water float permanently on water, regardless of the displacement (so long as they themselves do not absorb water to change their buoyancy), guess what one of those things are? a good 90% of foams. (most acrylic boats have foam in their walls for this reason)
think of it this way, an air filled balloon might have crap water displacement compared to a cast iron pot, but the pot will still sink because it's density is shit, but the air inside the balloon is way less dense then water, so it's water displacement is irrelevant, and will stay afloat.
Unfortunately in these guys case, the type of foam they are using isn't normal foam, it's a type of foam that acts more like a sponge (meaning that it Will help with buoyancy so long as there is no leak and water doesn't get into the foam, but the moment it does? it's going to sink very, very, very fast.)
I used two part in my 15’ bow rider. You’re right, it would have made that into a round balloon.
And don't forget you should cut a small section out where your spraying so air can get to it so the foam can harden up.
Great video guys. Highly informative. Well done.
I wish I had a Yorkie. I thought they were going to make foam filled outriggers to increase displacement. well they seem satisfied with the increased rigidity.
The buoyancy is only determined by the water displacement of the hull. Adding foam inside the boat does make it more boyant. It may help the stiffness of the hull but will not increase the displacement. The weight it can hold is exactly equal to the weight of water in displaces. I may have misunderstood your intent but this will NOT increase it load carrying ability.
It was not the foam that is floating. it is the boat but the foam gives and retains the boat shape and displacement it was designed to have. if you take an open plastic bottle ( or long pipe) and place it bottom first in water the volume of the bottle will lessen and so does its displacement. Filled with foam that the same bottle will maintain its displacement.
If gets wet, then freeze, thaw, be carefull, breaks foam cells, turns to giant sponge
what would rise to the surface faster, a pocket of air, or a blob of foam? air, of course. your boat was filled with air, the best. the foam makes it worse, although it does add rigidity, which is what you're experiencing. what you could have done is produce an outrigger block of foam, attached to the boat in some fashion with PVC. i suppose i should add that manufacturer's who put foam in their boats, either A) don't want you to sink if your boat gets a hole or B) have no confidence in their boat being high quality sealed, ie. they expect water to get in around the seams, therefore use foam to prevent heavy water from filling it enough to make you sink.
How do you figure that foam gives you more buoyancy than...air.
All that foam is going to hold moisture.. The boat is going to become heavier and heavier over time. Thus making it Less Bouyant. Side note.. Boat designers build flexibility into designs to prevent stressing and cracking.. Even giant oil tankers flex... a lot!!
Yes ‘U-peeps’ are correct he just added more wt. .But he now has a baby Boston Whaler ,unsinkable . so leave him alone and let him play…………
OH DAMN BRO!! you dont use that stuff for water use, it soaks up water. not closed cell foam. not that adding foam wouldve made it float any better...LOL People use 2 part expanding closed cell foam for projects like this. the stuff is expensive so beware of the sticker shock.
Corgis are great helpers aren't they!? We have two - Pippin and Ginger and they try to help with everything!
Looks like you'd be comfortable in that boat for about 5 minutes.
Good video. I bought a pelican intruder and have no problem with two grown men battery, trolling motor, cooler and gear. Just saying.
I don't know anything about boats but i thought they were as buoyant as they are no matter what you have on the inside of them? I thought it all had to do with the boat surface that touches the water no matter what's on the inside besides weight of coarse. Did the foam actually make the boat more buoyant???
Thanks, I had been wondering about this exact same idea!
The only reason tenders have foam is to prevent sinking. Boat are plastic. And may be Punctured by a log. Foam keeps it floating
I thought these plastic boats got foam inside? I got the Pelican Bass Raider and people say it has foam in the hull. I overload it all the time with Corona Extra.
this foam requires moisture to set up. if you do not have it exposed to some kind of moisture you will have nothing but goo in the middle.
I tried this in some dolly tires and it did not set....One big ass mess.
This is why they make two part foam.
Where he was standing in the front is all gooey in the middle...drill a hole and see.
mercury90hp k
Does anyone know if these guys are sitting on the bottom of a lake somewhere.
I think you did a great job It's been a couple years now how is it all working out would you do it again
Smarts are floating away
You guys need a bigger boat... so you can take me with you. You sound like my kind of people!
Bill Whalen haha you do realize you are sayinh you are just as stupid as them?
foam will only help buoyancy if the hull is taking on water. this won't increase your load capacity
I wonder why the manufacturer of my Triumph 190 Bay chose to replace the air between the inner and outer hull with foam? Any of you rocket scientist that commented below care to explain? Oh, I know why. It's because they didn't sleep through high school, didn't smoke weed, and got engineering degrees.
If anyone is considering doing this to their boat, please don't, its a mistake.
I don't think the weight of the engine is incorporated in the 580lb weight capacity, There should be a sticker that shows you the weight the transit can hold.. on that boat i think its around 88 lbs, so if you have an 88lb engine. you dont have to add that to the weight of the boat capacity. Least this is what i think......
The foam adds weight, which reduces buoyancy.
+Eric Cox
100% correct!
...up until when water starts entering the boat, then you'll wish you had closed-cell foam below the deck to keep the water out.
myownspiritlevel If the goal is to make the boat float even when it is filled with water, then might I propose a raft?
Thanks for the feedback, I'll consider that for mine. Hey, I noticed you built yourself a bow mount for a trolling motor - any tips you could give me, I'm looking to do exactly that. Looks sharp. I have the version before the Scorpio - called the Caribe 11. Practically similar except for a few odd differences (4 rod holders, no hole under the center seat). Thanks in advance.
This kind of expansion foam requires H2O for hardening, if you spray in confined dry spots it will never fully harden.
Andi Doci The two-piece configuration of the boat gave plenty of air to harden, along with the drill holes. Boat used to bend a lot with two people in it. Now incredibly firm and stable.
MrTPD05 I’ll take your word on this. I sprayed a few oz of water and let it sit in the sun and then sprayed the foam in my boat application.
Only way to carry more weight is to displace more water . Get a bigger boat ! The foam will only help if you poke a hole in the plastic hull .
Did you figure out that Great Stuff foam absorbs water like a sponge, yet? 🤣
You should mention G Rex in the description to up your view count!
Firmed it up but actually decreased max load by foams weight.
THIS
Using open cell foam in a boat is a no no. It will water log. Only marine closed cell foam.
That's the wrong foam boss ! Once that get wet ? It will be heavy and no buoyancy value ! You need to be using marine grade foam ....it's waterproof !
Should of invested in a boat collar instead if you can’t afford a bigger boat.
I have an American jon (plastic) and considering filling with spray foam. Curious is you had water logging after some time?
nice work guys ! good fishin :)
Nice job guys!
+Anthony Rizzo nice job? they filled their boat with holes and foam that absorb's water and gained no buoyancy at all?
Add outriggers or just get something bigger.
Is that spray foam closed cell? If its regular open cell foam its going to water log and you just ruined your boat...
you're not increasing the water displacement
Great job!
Great job..
Thanks for the video.
Cool little boat who makes it
Joke or totally ridiculous ! The foam will suck up 5 % water = boat gets even more heavy!!
Laurids Kirchhoff here hold ma beer....
It's closed cell foam
any tips on repairing the keel cracks or dammage?
It's at least 50% better LOL
MORE FLEETWOOD MAC!!!!
Great idea guys, well done doc! It was the first of your videos I've seen you have a new subscriber sir well done! I do Marine salvage or at least I would have been without this covid crap I've been looking at a small boat to use to launch a diver and airbags and something strong enough that I could put a little generator in it Samaritan tanks and this is been a problem if I get a small vessel that's cheap enough for me to afford it's generally going to be like that where I'm not going to get enough weight in it and then once you have waited it you've got to be able to have a diver climb in over the side which means it's going to want to sink itself, but your idea is a great alternative I could take a cheap boat like that fill it with foam inexpensively and it would probably do the job at the very least it'll give me a lot more buoyancy than it would without a great idea I'm very appreciative thank you
lol I'm sorry man this is pretty funny. it wouldn't actually make it more buoyant unless the chambers filled with water. the air in the hull is just fine. actually better cause foam ads weight
Adding foam does NOTHING but add more weight making it worse, did this guy miss physics class in high school or something?
Oh yea...
Hey, Snarky McSnarkington, watch the video. He's adding foam to make the boat stiffer and to make the floor flex less.
Walkertongdee it doesn't add much weight at all, and it is basically for insuring absolute flotation in any case where water may penetrate the plastic due to a puncture or deteration of seals.
If you have a hollow boat and it leaks somehow, then it will surely sink, but if it is filled with foam it will continue to float. Every boat should have foam in every hollow area.
School is for fools.
@@Edyth_Hedd you are stupid too he says it doesent cary enough weight and needs to carry more gear, phisics says this is not possible.
@@seanwalker5157 Hey, Sean, people who can barely write a sentence probably shouldn't go around calling people stupid. And it's spelled "physics" by the way.
The foam will soak up water like a sponge.
Closed cell foam. No it wont.
After learning the boat had a lot of "flex" before the foam, I realized the foam may have actually added some displacement due to the hull being stiffer. If the hull is rigid, the panels don't flex under the pressure applied by the water. You may have eaked out an additional 5 to 10 pounds of floatation!
but why
Makes no sense. Boat will displace the same amount of water. H would have to find a way to stick foam to the bottom of the hull.....
PEOPLE PEOPLE PEOPLE!!!
THE MAX WEIGHT ON ANYTHING
IS THE SINK/SUNK WEIGHT!!!
Dude! That's a Kid boat/Dinghy stop trying to use it as a full on fishing boat.
How much was that boat?
It awesom!
The boat will only hold what it displaces, you would be better filling it with air lol
sweet
Ft ?
More weight
Oh God.
Hehe ohw yeah fill it up and itll get more buoyant... idk but when I had my first mathclass and learned 1+1=2... i learned that 2 is bigger then 1. So if you add 5kg of foam it gets heavier.... noooooow if you would spray it on the oooooutside and increase the total surface area of the boat? Yeah it break off. But if it wouldnt then it get more bouyant. But hey its a good way to waterproof it.. if it ever cures lol.