Sonic unleashed,heros, 3 and knuckles ,generations,frontiers,mania sonic can compete with mario Sega doesn’t try with theyre games Sega disrespects sonic
Until Sonic keeps *consistently* getting good to great games, he will never compete with Mario again. And this is coming from someone who’s been a die-hard Sonic fan for over two decades and has always preferred him over Mario Frontiers was a huge step in the right direction, albeit unpolished, but Superstars was a beyond middling title that released next to Mario Wonder, which blows that game out of the water . How has Sega not learned by now that rushing their devs and not giving them enough time and resources will continue to keep biting them in the rear? I’m so tired of people settling for and even defending mediocrity, and I’m tired of Sega constantly sabotaging their teams’ game releases, because things will never improve if it keeps happening.
"Until Sonic keeps consistently getting good to great games, he will never compete with Mario again." Unless of course, Mario stops getting good games or Mario makes less games or retires from the gaming industry.
I'm so happy to hear someone speaking my language. It's the biggest downfall of the series for sure. As long as fans keep forgiving Sega for the crap they release, this franchise will forever remain in the gutter. Sonic CAN compete with Mario if he tried and was given the chance. It's the biggest waste of a franchise I've ever seen in gaming. And nobody is to blame more than Sega for letting that happen
The other issue I always see is that they keep shoving in pointless gimmicks and gameplay styles in the middle of the meat and potatoes of actual Sonic level design and gameplay.
@nickfurlong3369 They certainly make more intrusive concepts but I think with the right amount of SKILL and time, they could make it work. With current Sonic Team tho, I really don't think they can reach the same level of polish as Nintendo even with the time they require
I've been a Sonic the Hedgehog fan my whole life and those games are my comfort food for gaming. But overall as a series, those games are either hit or miss. Mario has consistently put out great and timeless games while Sonic either rises or fails to the occasion. I think SEGA is ultimately holding the series back, and they were never as competent as Nintendo was. If anything I'd rather have them take the quality over quantity approach with Sonic. There are too many mediocre/bad ones among the good ones.
Sonic games will never reach the quality of Mario games unless they ask Nintendo to TEACH them how to make better Sonic games or better yet, HAVE A MARIO AND SONIC CROSSOVER PEOPLE HAVE BEEN STARVING FOR YEARS!!! Also Mario games are comfort food
Even growing up as a Sonic fan most of my life, I loved Mario's games. Sonic sure as hell has the potential to have the same game quality as Mario though. It's just that SEGA is holding Sonic Team back from truly going all out.
Not hard to blame Sega/Sonic Team when they're owned by the gambling company Sammy that'll do everything they can to keep the public views of the company as not the borderline illegal Japanese gambling company , aka one of the many forms of the antichrist.
Sonic Team themselves nowadays haven't been all that great either let's just be honest. Half the blame can be out on them too. They're incompetent on every level to make something truly great
Sonic has a long way to go before getting on par with Mario. Sega needs to prioritize 3 things with Sonic game development. 1. More development time 2. More budget 3. More team staff to help
Mario still would have: 1. Way more development time 2. Has way more budget 3. And has way better staff, by the time SAGA had decent staff Nintendo will have way better staff
You know what’s really sad? At least Sonic has it better than Megaman, last new original Megaman game was Megaman 11 in 2018, now it’s been reduced to people anticipating and expecting the next collection of old games. I just wanted to put that out there and share a fantastic Megamantuber who explains it all while I’m at it ruclips.net/video/LGgVYJRyRGw/видео.html
Steps to do better sonic games that can actually compete with Mario: 1: stick to the hedgehog engine 2 for at least one more decade in order to master it 2: have more than 60 people working on the games (frontiers suffered a lot from that) 3: make the concepts for the artstyle, music, story and level the design consistent with the tone, yet maintain creativity (like unleashed had with every continent) 4: playtest the games (DUh) 5: invest on quality to make marketing the game easier. 6: release the game when the game is *READY*.
I hope the really adhere to #3 and #4. Sonic frontiers made me straight up quit with how inconsistent the difficulty felt, and mainly master king koco. The game wasn't that annoying, and then bam, chaos island, and then bam, the trial towers, and then BAM the king koco trial. No reason that it should be still THIS hard on EASY mode 😭
One of the biggest problems with the Sonic franchise isn't just its inconsistent quality, but the constant changes Sega keeps putting it through. The 2D games were pretty consistent, and Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 played pretty similarly, but then, Heroes decides to change things up with the team formula and its loose controls. Shadow then introduces guns and a branching story, along with even slipperier controls. Sonic 06 went back to the Adventure formula, which was fine, only to then swap it up again with Unleashed and its boost/werehog gameplay, as well as medal collecting. Both Colors and Generations improved on the Unleashed day stages design, but then, Lost World throws everything out and tries a completely new gameplay style. Forces then reintroduces the Boost and classic gameplay, but it still felt off from Colors and Generations. And finally, Frontiers throws everything out again and goes open zone, with a new combat system and world design. See what I'm saying? They refuse to stick with one formula and improve on it. Mario games may switch between being linear and non-linear, but the overall gameplay remains the same and is refined, on top of what little gimmick they add in. It feels familiar enough, but also refreshing thanks to the new additions.
Exactly. Not to mentioned Sega keeps rushing these games out. Containing many bugs or alot of unpolished designs that keeps them having solid quality games.
I will never understand their mentality of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" regarding gameplay formulas. No other gaming company does this as regularly as SEGA with Sonic.
If Sega really wants to rival Mario again, they will take what they made in Frontiers, keep with it, and polish it over future games. Refine the physics and momentum, pull away from those annoying automated sections that plagued Chaos Island, and keep adding to the ongoing lore. Bring Sage back as a main character and have her participate in boss fights with Eggman and add to the combat to make it even more fluid and fun. I may have really liked Frontiers, but I still wouldn't put it above a 7/10. There are still areas it needs fine tuning, but they're on the right track to making something great.
I'd give my left nut to see what the Adventure formula would look like if it were allowed to grow like the Mario 64 formula was allowed to do. Hopefully sega actually sticks to the Frontiers formula for a while because I can see a truly incredible game if they like actually expanded on it
When I look at a franchise like Mario. I just see the confidence that Nintendo has in Mario to succeed. I see confidence in the team that makes Mario games, confidence in the ideas that that team has. The Mario team isn’t afraid of trying something new, but they also know how to keep the game still feeling like a Mario game. They simply just have Mario figured out in a way that Sega doesn’t necessarily have Sonic figured out. Frontiers is a great game, but when I look at Frontiers compared to a game like Mario Galaxy and Mario Wonder. I see a game that has great ideas, but doesn’t exactly make me go. Oh yeah this game just checks every single box. And does everything right. Obviously no game is perfect, there are problems in Galaxy and Wonder but they are always minor issues. At the end of the day, Sega has to put that confidence in there team and in the franchise to make Sonic as good as Mario. As someone who likes Mario more then Sonic I just have to say good luck to Sonic if that’s there intention.
@@rheokalyke367 I was just talking about mainline Mario games. Spin offs can be a hit or miss, most of them I would say are good. But at least Mario actually has spin off games. Only Sonic spin off games we get are like racing games, or like small phone games.
Sonic trying to compete with Mario is like TemTem trying to compete with Pokemon. Sega is more obsessed with Mario than than making a good Sonic game and its sad and pathetic. The biggest reason Sega is fighting a forever losing battle against Mario is that the Mario franchise is made up of multiple BIG BRANDS. Each character is popular and they have their own logo and they are so popular many of them can sustain their own game. Mario - HUGE BRAND. One of the most well known characters ever made. Bowser - MASSIVE BRAND. I'd say Bowser is right now almost as popular and well known as Mario himself Princess Peach - HUGE rapidly GROWING BRAND with her own game coming soon Daisy - A growing brand that Nintendo is trying to push because she is in Mario Wonder Toad/Toadette - Midsize brand that can sustain its own game (Remember Captain Toad?) Rosalina - Midsize brand that seems to be fading Luigi - HUGE BRAND. Luigi alone can sustain his own game. Luigi's Mansion 3 alone sold over 11 million copies. Peachette - A growing brand that created Bowsette. Peachette has huge potential Pauline - An old brand that Nintendo is trying to push. She now has her own logo Donkey Kong - Need I say more? HUGE BRAND that can sustain its own game and is so mainstream that it is ingrained in American culture with the saying, "Its on like Donkey Kong". Can Sega make a Tails only game that sells even a thousand copies?
Basically, for Mario, each of the playable characters could be considered main characters. For sonic though, they're effectively just side characters with how little importance they seem to have.
@@ambientNexus Yes. Exactly. I also forgot to mention Waluigi. His popularity has also grown over the years. A well done Waluigi game would sell a very good amount of copies.
@@Molybed1Wario- BIG GROWING BRAND- he has two stand alone series, Wario land and Wario ware (land being the "mario for big boys" and ware having and HUGE cast of supporting characters). His games are inspiring indie developers ( pizza tower and anton blast) and wario himself is an frequent character in mario spin-offs
@@igordasilva7180 I always viewed Wario as his own brand with his own cast members (Captain Syrup and the Black Sugar Gang) and his own games . Maybe I should remove Waluigi because he never showed up in a mainline Mario platform game.
Sonic hasn't competed with Mario since the 90s. The only people that still bring up their rivalry are Sonic fans. Mario fans are not worried about Sonic. I wouldn't focus on this imaginary, one-sided competition. Mario has found its footing a long time ago and is now building upon that. Sonic is still trying to find its footing when it comes to gameplay. Mario is leagues ahead of Sonic and it's almost impossible for them to catch up in only a few years. I don't want this to be a marvel-dc situation, where marvel is doing so good, and dc tries to play catch up but instead keeps releasing trash. I just want Sega to focus on improving themselves besides trying to outdo everyone else. Competition should come as a result of releasing a good game. If we get a solid decade of mainline Sonic games that are polished and of decent to high quality, then we can talk about competing with Mario. But as of right now, Sega still has to get their act together.
To be fair, this feels more like a friendly rivalry between Nintendo and Sega. They're both reliving the good old days. It's even more funny when fans treat this as a return to the console wars.
To expand on this: Sonic as a concept is a very hard concept to pull off, and Sega has lacked the time and budget to really pull it off to a polished level. They almost never have a polished release as a result. Fact is Mario is impressive, but never has to worry about pop-in for a character moving through an entire hub in one minute, or screen scrolling so fast that there's no time to react to obstacles. Mario focuses almost exclusively on one character whereas every 2D Sonic game after the first game tries to have at least 2 unique chraacters. Superstars has 5. Wonder really only has 2 types of characters with a bunch of powerups; there is no difference between Luigi/Peach/Toad. It can't be underestimated how much polish Nintendo puts into Mario, but if you ever asked yourself "why are there so few sonic competitors", there's your answer. Some designers would even say it's inherently bad game design to begin with. But I guess Sonic always thrived off of rebelling against traditional level design lol.
When I was grown up as a Sonic fan I started to like Mario but when I was liking Sonic I was like hmm I honestly think that Sonic is better than Mario but then people are saying that Mario is better than Sonic. The thing about Sonic is that there always some problems with Sonic Games but when it comes to Mario Games get 10/10 and Sonic games usually get 8/10 or 7/10 or 9/10. Sonic Superstars and Super Mario wonder been pretty repetitive and those two games were released this year and Super Mario wonder did better than Sonic Superstars. Great video Matt)
To put it simply, Sega doesn’t give Sonic Team enough time or budget to make games as good and polished as Mario games. Some problems that I have with Sonic that I don’t have with Mario are lacking animation, unpolished glitches, non consistent art style, non consistent gameplay, lacking story, and a reluctance to change. Meanwhile, all of the 5 main 3D Mario games share the same core gameplay style but just adds different powerups and moves to his arsenal and puts him in a new setting. They are polished with next to no glitches, they all have consistent art styles, and they each look very good with great animation because Nintendo doesn’t set release dates for Mario games before they know that they’re absolutely ready to be released.
@@evdestroy5304 And it still wasn’t finished. Frontiers came out with tons of pop in, glitches, and a very unfinished final boss fight. Sonic Team had to fight to get this game released in November 2022 because Sega wanted to release it in 2021, an entire year before.
Sonic is never competing with Mario because Sega mistreats him so much. I know a lot of people are tired of always hearing 06 get brought up but honestly thats just because Sega still makes the same mistakes. If Sega treated Sonic half as good as Nintendo treats Mario, 06 would have been forgotten by now.
Yeah. You don't see the same amount of people talking about Mario 2: The Lost Levels NEARLY as much as Sonic 06. That's because Nintendo fucking learned from their mistakes and realized making an almost kaizo centric game was a disaster for them. Every other 2D Mario game since then, from 3, to World, to some of the New games, and now Wonder, is leagues better than that game.
@nickfurlong3369 There's also Sunshine. I know there are fans of the game. But that game was really rushed in which many content, worlds or level was scrapped and there are some bugs & glitches. The only reason they rushed the heck out of it is because they wonna show how powerful the GameCube was and while it looks nice, that still didn't help on how messy the game can be.
My issue with frontiers was the gameplay loop of collecting the memory tokens. On the last island I was so bored with it I just fished for them with big to get the game moving cause I was as interested in the story more.
While is a little weird hear Sega saying they want to compete with Mario, it proves that Frontiers (and Superstars for the most part lol) made them realize how much the developers and consumers want Sonic to succeed, this past decade they pretty much treated Sonic as an easy cash grab. I think their focus needs to be quality control and consistency, experimenting is good but can prevent you from improving what was already good
I'll be honest, I despise it when Sega gets egotistical, and this line got under my skin. I admire the ambition, but remember that overambition killed the leads to a higher fall. Sega needs to understand the meaning of "slow down" when it comes to quality.
I appreciate and love the optimism Matt brings, and as much as I love Sonic, there just ain’t no way he could ever compete with Mario anymore. Mario constantly comes out with generation defining games while Sonic is still trying to find its polish. There is not one modern 3D Sonic game that compares to the level of Super Mario Odyssey. And that’s because Mario values creativity and player control over everything else. The reason SA1 is so beloved in the Sonic gameplay side is how fucking creative it is. They valued player movement, creativity, and level design. Having an absurd story was just that much better. But I wouldn’t say it’s comparable to modern standards because it hasn’t necessarily aged well and playing as like 4 other characters is dog shit. Really the only games that can compare to any 3D Mario is SA2 and Generations. Mario is just way too big and way too creative for really anyone to compete with. Before Sega and Sonic can compete with Mario, they must compete with themselves first and challenge what made fans love Sonic first. Momentum, level design that values speed yet and exploration, and a sassy blue hedgehog. Frontier got like one of those right
Only the future tell!💙 🎶 If you leap without a net you'll find, it won't be there all the time. But if you never try, you'll never knooowww🎶 Let's wait and see if Sonic is worthy to be called Mario's rival 😁
@@ssseee3ds463 it’s literally the opposite of basic. Easy to learn, hard to master is not basic. If that’s the case, then any sonic game isn’t worth the time since it’s basic with 2D and especially boost
@@ErikLeeTroche the thing is that i’m not that fan of the levels design in Oddyssey and it’s really not that hard to master compared to say, SA2 or Unleashed (i don’t even really like SA2 lol)
@@ssseee3ds463 I mean, that is just blasphemy to say. Odyssey has more creativity in it than any sonic game combined. Looking at how the movement is and how people practice to make that movement as seamless as possible is actually hard to master. It’s simply just not true to say that it’s easy because of basic movement. Because again if that’s the case, Sonic is stupid easy. There is a reason Mario reigns supreme over literally everyone but Zelda
I think the biggest thing that they do wrong is badly doing QA testing. They need to watch QA testers play the game, listen to their feedback and have a coherent vision in order to change what needs to be changed and ignore what should stay the same for the vision.
11:14 while I first laughed when I read that quote I then felt nice ‘because the fact that they really want to surpass Mario shows how passionate they are about making sonic good
So long as SEGA is only in the business of making and selling games, Sonic will never surpass Mario. Why? Simple. Mario has to move consoles. The money made by a Mario game is more than its base profits, it's every person who gets into the Nintendo ecosystem as a result of that game. Because of that, Nintendo is willing to give those games the time and money they need to be exceptional. Sonic doesn't have to move consoles. It has a built in audience on all platforms. SEGA will *never* put more money into a Sonic game than they stand to make on it. In fact, they are motivated to put the minimal amount of money into a Sonic game that it takes to get the bulk of the people who would buy the game. Sonic Superstars demonstrates that Sonic fans will pay standard retail price to buy a game that most publishers would probably charge under half the standard price for (IE it has a scope roughly as high as Mega Man 11, but much less polish).
Great video, dude! I highly appreciate your honesty, and that you don't just side with one or the other. Sonic has the potential to be fantastic, but it's up to SEGA and Sonic Team to deliver games that most people consider to be better than some Mario games. I know they can do it!
If you are feeling burnt out but want to still talk about Sonic, get into the Sonic Comics! Archie, STC, and the IDW run! There are so many interesting stories and concepts Sonic has done and is still doing! Story telling is an aspect Mario can’t compete Sonic in.
In terms of showcasing the world outside the video games I think that Sonic has Mario beat there given the animation adaptation of the Sonic series in the past. Plus Sonic has a better approach to live action than Mario.
As I’ve said many times before, a lot of die-hard Sonic fans also play Mario games, and a lot of die-hard Mario fans also play Sonic games. While I do believe Sonic is the better character, both he and Mario can coexist and fans can love both of them equally. So as long as SEGA and Sonic Team can work together well, I think we got ourselves a good competition here. Also, just wanna clarify, I love Sonic and Mario both; easily in my Top 10 game franchises, and still looking for a TRUE crossover game that isn’t the Olympic Games, as much as I love those games.
@daltonsturgeon4024 every single time there's a conversation about Mario and Sonic rivalry I force in freaking Godzilla in it and use my opinion to fight against people about it
Yea That’s the thing The developers want to surpass Mario But sega Doesnt Care. Sega has no problems rushing developers and underdelivering on budget people Lump Sonic team and sega together a lot But The reason Sonic Team even re uses so many assets isn’t bc they think that’s what the fans want THEY LITTERALLY don’t have the money to spare making new leveles
Mario has better sales because the developers learn what worked from one game and applied it to another while fixing the mistakes that came from another. Sonic whenever they have one good game (Besides the classics) completely forget what worked from a game and change the gameplay style or gimmick to please fans and not try to stick with a formula and try to fix the issues coming from it. Time management is also what really holds Sonic back since they want to make quick money and because of that, games like Sonic 06 and Sonic Boom are created. In order for them to truly be on par or even surpass Mario, they need to figure out what works from their games and doesn’t and polish it out. More time needs to be given too so it would turn out great.
Keep up the good content! I think sonic would be able to compete if we got games like sa2. And can we get your opinion on Spark the electric jester 3? Since it is the game I wish frontiers was.
Interesting video! I honestly think 50% of why Sonic struggles to be on the top top is because of recency bias hate and it can kinda be seen everywhere
If sega even wants a chance at beating mario they need quality control, many spin offs, and more time for the delpovers. They could maybe do a cross over with mario but even with all that it might be to little to late. Sega also needs to stop making such big goals they need to make smaller goals to reach the bigger ones
Opinion: Sega only had a chance to compete with Mario in the 90s. To put it frankly, Sonic simply no longer has the vision it once had and the franchise feels scattered and not cohesive. Also the fact that at least in America there will always be stigma around Sonic (the 3D entries especially) I don't personally think Sonic ever can surpass Mario, but that's just me.
He can't surpass Mario, but he at least can release more quality games IF SEGA just puts more caring and time into his titles. First step is LITERALLY SEGA love its mascot. With this, they can catch the tram with Mario.
I feel like after Sonic Adventure 2 and after Sega left the console business, they just stopped caring about the quality of the titles and just rushed them out to get a quick buck. Like what Matt said in the video, competition can really help a game company to focus on quality control. Granted they should always focus on that, but when you are a business trying to be a success, competition comes a long way in helping reach that goal. Sega competed against Mario and Nintendo with Sonic in the 1990's. Then, they actually cared about the quality of his games, and kept improving upon each game. Starting with the Adventure games though, while they were still both huge successes, they kept adding in weird gameplay styles that...frankly I don't think anyone really asked for besides giddy 5 year olds. After that they never fully recovered. They are still repeating the same mistakes they've made in the past, to this day.
Often times I felt that the stigma around Sonic would get out of control, overblown to the point where it simply became cool and popular to hate Sonic and just basically bully Sonic fans in general, especially around the late 2010’s where this was most prevalent. It was not a fun time to be a Sonic fan and it did not help my mental health at all, it only contributed to my depression, self-loathing, and thoughts of unaliving myself later on. Obviously, I have other and much more personal reasons for having such horrible thoughts, but still. Seeing something that has been with you since childhood and that you’re passionate about having so much stigma and mockery surrounding it and the very idea of being a fan of said thing also comes with so much hatred, disgust, mockery, and negative generalizations can take a toll on your mental health. I know it may sound silly, but that can happen when you’re suddenly exposed to an overwhelming amount of negativity and you’re not sure how to react to it or you’re hated and mocked by others for things that are out of your control. Especially generalized in a negative way all because of the actions of some infamous fans that you’ve never interacted with nor heard of. Like, I can’t control what those people do in their lives nor am I responsible for their actions and behavior so what the fuck am I supposed to do about it? It especially did not help when some of the people mocking Sonic Fans would heavily use autism as an insult given that I’m autistic myself so it also started feeling like a personal attack over something that I never asked for. But I believe that was around the time when Cringe Culture was around and people were more edgy and commonly used things like autism as an insult. It’s hard being a Sonic fan indeed. And lonely. It’s like being a character that has suffered more than Ellie from The Last of Us Part 2.
@@SpeedyBlur2000 tbh, I'm fine with the Adventure games being "weird". Even because their gameplay variations are actually well-handed, in my opinion. But yeah, the thing is SEGA never improved upon it. Instead, they just kept experimenting and adding different gameplay designs without knows what makes Sonic good...
There's a scene in Mad Men where a guy comes to Don Draper and says that he thinks of him everyday and looks forward when he'll be more successful than him... And then Don Draper says that he never thought about him for a single day lol I think that sums up that Sonic comment there. The issue with Sonic not reaching the levels of charisma and popularity is because of the type of game, Mario platformers are way more approachable. The quality matters for sure, but going as fast as you can versus taking in the gameplay and casual appeal... That's not comparable at all.
The only downside from the competition between sonic and mario is the fights it can generate between fans tbh, its pretty annoying (like what Playstation and Xbox fans has). I see this statement as a more friendly competition, like both franchises wanting to stand toe to toe with each other, walk in the same path so to speak. I'm pretty hopeful about the next game!
I highly doubt that Sonic would ever surpass Mario given that Nintendo has had forty years to build a lineup of rock solid quality titles. Not saying every Mario game is a 10/10 but they sure as heck are a lot more consistent in quality than Sonic games. Sonic has potential to be a solid franchise similar to what Mario has but that’s only if SEGA and Sonic Team put in the work to handle their ip right.
i don't think sonic could ever be better then mario, but i do think sonic could rival mario games like they used to back in the day. they also need to appeal to all audience instead of a large group of audience because mario games can be played by anyone in any pase, while sonic is just fast pace
Sonic and Mario games have their own gameplay style and audience,the difference between them is "Who does their thing better?",that's where Nintendo takes the W,Sega for some reason just makes objectively bad Sonic games with problems and glitches that hinder the experience,while Nintendo make AND FINISH their Mario games,Sega needs to properly manage development if they want to compete with Mario
Just so happy to hear this spirit from them 😍 you don't know how much happiness this brings me... I believe in them, Sonic will surpass Mario someday and show everyone that they're the dark horse of the competition 🔥☺️
In a nutshell, Nintendo gives their team the freedom and time to flesh out their games and ideas as much as possible with Mario to make as good of a game as possible Pair that with the consistency of said quality games and then you just look at our blue blur very sadly After the first 2 adventure games it didn't feel like Sega had absolute confidence in their own team and gave them limited budget and time for most projects, and when one idea doesn't make literal bank, they abandon it and try something COMPLETELY new, if frontiers didn't succeed like it did safe to say we wouldn't have any idea what the next sonic game would have been anywhere like, Heck I don't know if dream team would have been pushed forward seeing how much ideas from frontiers it tries to emulate and even flesh out and execute in a more sonic visual aesthetic and style
When they even have a working formula they still try to experiment, colors and generations were 2 hits in a row, and they follow it up with lost world and boom, colors and generations gave them the opening they needed, that wasn’t the time to experiment it was the time to double down on what worked
I’ll just put it like this. Sonic Surpassing Mario Is Indeed Possible, But it all depends on SEGA. They can say they want to surpass Mario all day long, But Action Speaks louder then words, They have to prove they really want such a thing to happen, otherwise they’re just talking out their Tails.
New Sonic Cycle just dropped New subpar Sonic game releases -> fans are underwhelmed -> Sega makes statement saying how THIS time they're going to focus on improving the quality of their games -> fans become optimistic and hopeful -> rinse repeat
I can think of two huge problems off the bat on why they aren't getting on Mario's level: 1. A huge portion of the Sonic games released in the last 15 years are mediocre at best while a much smaller portion of Mario games released in that time suffer from that. Even those Mario games that were mediocre at best were mostly spinoffs, while we've had multiple mainline Sonic games with crappy quality with the most recent being Sonic Forces. 2. The Sonic designers seem to have forgotten what made Sonic so great in the first place, while the Mario designers capture that every time. We've rarely if ever seen multiple pathways in a stage like Sonic 2 had in many of its levels recently for example. Sonic Forces is the worst offender because stages are straight lines where you can't improve your times without exploits after a few tries.
Frankly, chasing Mario is what lead to shoving mario type powerups into a Sonic game and the whole of Lost World. I'm not ready for a Lost World 2. The thing is, sonic was designed to be everything mario wasn't. I'm here to play sonic games, not mario games with a sonic skin.
If SEGA or Sonic Team haven’t rush before the deadline it could a good/great/amazing game but usual they keep getting between mediocre or bad (expect for Sonic Generations, Sonic Colours, Sonic Frontiers PC & PS4 Version and Sonic Mania Plus) Every time SEGA or Sonic Team keep repeating history (rushing new games development) they’re doom to fail And they why Mario will always be the final victor
The reason why Mario is more succeedful than Sonic is not only does he has far better quality of games, but it's also more polished as they weren't rushing through them and not having as the amount of bugs or glitches as Sonic has. Yeah. Not all Mario games are winners. The recent Mario Sports games, Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Lost Levels and as controversial as it maybe; Super Mario Sunshine are best examples that tries to have potential, but wasn't exactly very well design, not solid quality games, pretty rushed that didn't have enough content or having buggy moments and aren't gonna appeal to everyone. But even those are nowhere near as awful as you compare it to the likes of say Sonic 06, Boom: Rise of Lyric or Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood. Mario has an few lows. But there are tremendous high games that outweighs the bad ones. Meanwhile Sonic's is all over it. Some good. Some meh. Others are either mediocre or just plain bad. Mario has like 90% of good games, while Sonic has an hit or miss.
I think Osamu Ohashi might be blind to the reason Sonic fails to compete with Mario any more. Anyway competition is only good when it's good honest competition, the reason I'm saying this is because I'm still annoyed at how Epic has been trying to "compete" with Steam by doing exclusivity deals rather then attempting to make their launcher comparable to Steam's.
no they are saying that because they respect mario for being as successful as it is they arent saying it in a competitive sense. its just saying "we want sonic to be successful too"
@@ReadyboyReady-te6nc yes they have acknowledged mario as a rival they want to surpass. not necessarily hostile or disrespectful, just a competitive statement.
When a Mario game is bad, the worst you can say about it is it's boring and derivative. When a Sonic game is bad, it's a roaring dumpster fire. Sonic can have higher highs than Mario, but it also has much lower lows.
*The game was so good, sega has offically announced there making a second one with even nega wisp armor clones and their most exciting and engaging level yet, where you run for 2.5 seconds on a straight line.*
Mario is far more consistent than Sonic. While I prefer Sonic over Mario, Mario has a tried and true formula. All Nintendo does is tweak things just a bit and then you get games like Mario Wonder, a fantastic 2D Mario, probably the best 2D Mario ever. They nailed the formula decades ago with both 2D and 3D. 2D Sonic's formula was nailed too with Sonic 2 and perfected with 3 and Knuckles. 3D Sonic is so inconsistent though. For every good game, there's another really bad game. Every time they have a winning formula, Sega tries to reinvent the wheel, which results in games like Shadow, 06 and Forces. Every time the Sonic franchise has a new potential that rival Mario, they screw it up. Frontiers' problems can ALL be ironed out in the sequel. Superstars was meh, compared to Mario Wonder. Frontiers and Superstars both have issues, all Sega needs to do is just stick with it. Iron out their issues and make games that are truly special.
The inherent nature of Sonic makes him more interesting, as Mario really isn't allowed to do much with its characters. But I cannot deny that Mario games are pretty consistent. Sonic is such a mixed bag of potential, it hurts at times when they shoot themselves in the foot. I'll still be a Sonic fan at the end of it all. But I do hope they are looking to give Sonic the QA he really needs.
As someone who's a fan of both, I still see them both as equals. Sonic's games are hit and miss, but have more substance and lore, and while Mario's games are consistently polished, they'll lack depth and can be stale.
The bigger overarching issue is SEGAs handling of Sonic. They never give games the proper time needed to come out, they rush games out in unfinished states and try to fix them later. They also have terrible business practices that negatively affect the consumer, look at the Sonic origins situation if you need an examole
I feel like Sonic just doesn't lend himself as well to good game play as Mario simply because he's too fast. The problem is, I think most want to either take their time traversing a level, or not have their momentum constantly being interrupted by bullshit obstacles. Too often, though, Sonic feels like he's on rails. He's a good mascot, but a bad character to try and control. Mario games, meanwhile, are less about attitude, and more about game play, and there's always some element that has been added to make the games feel fresh.
I mean sonic is still here after 30 years and some of the best games of all time include at least one sonic game like 2 or 3&k. The gameplay isn't the problem
Also, a huge problem is most games only have Sonic playable. And the representation of other Sonic characters which have little screentime and are quickly reduced to being on his cheerleading team saying "Go Sonic! You can do this!" Plus another thing is Mario games have so much ideas and spin offs which are all good. Most Sonic games are still running quickly to the end through frustrating level design of multiple levels, fight Eggman, day is saved, and left with nothing else to do but beat the levels as fast as you can.
All of this it’s true and now the sonic dev team of sonic frontiers are trying to find out what Zelda tears of the kingdom game core 6 run off of that made it look so good. Despite the sonic frontiers being sold more copies in western than it did in Japan. And now they are slowing starting to release what going on why the recent sonic games are not doing good.
Another thing is that Nintendo isn’t altering canon so drastically likely Sega. Nintendo is sticking rather to the old canon making rather less original characters unlike Sega and their own fan characters…etc. Back then for instance nowadays when you look at it Epic Games had Jazz Jackrabbit. Super Mario Bros. is about rescuing royal damsels in distresses not about rescuing planets worlds likely in case of Sonic the Hedgehog.
I mean, I’d say that Mario just has less story. That isn’t a bad thing though. However, Mario has a pretty wacky world. The concept of Mario is what makes its wackiness and inconsistency in canon work better. Like the original Mario’s plot is an Italian plumber has to save a princess, who rules over a mushroom kingdom, from a dragon-turtle king. Growing up with it makes it sound less weird but I bet if you explained that to someone who had never heard of Mario would probably be confused
7:21 well the good news is that they were already doing this they did that with frontiers,sonic rumble and the recent upcoming game sonic X shadow generations idk about Superstars..if they playtested this one or not I have no information if superstars was playtested
This guy is a producer, his job is to gather the resources (budget) from investors (Sega) to pass to the dev team. I don't think he's doing a good job, because it constantly feels like Sonic games suffer from small budgets and staff.
Sonic has always been doomed to this. Sonic is fast, and while that can be a cool gimmick, you gotta be very careful designing 2D levels that don’t feel unfair, or 3D levels that Sonic doesn’t break instantly. That’s why Mario platformers are so much less messy, because Mario goes at his own pace and Nintendo can focus on putting him into interesting and fun situations.
interesting how mario wonder devs reportedly had like no deadlines or crunch and the game is regarded as one of marios best, meanwhile sonic is constantly rushed and doesnt turn out nearly as good...
Nintendo understands the design philosophy and appeal of Mario whereas Sega just doesn't. Mario Odyssey still uses the base principles established in 1999, but finds new ways to experience them, allowing old and new fans to enjoy. Same with Wonder. Meanwhile, Frontiers is an absolute mishmash and ideas, experiences and trends with superficial connections to his original success(ie shameless nostalgia abuse) which is why when a kid sees Mario, he knows his money will be well spent. When we see Sonic, we have no idea what we're in for. Also Sonic needs to stop taking control from the player. This is a biggie. Sonic represents the expression of player creativity in the form of speed and skill which is why mastering the classics is so rewarding. Blitzing through the level is a demonstration of your skill. In Frontiers, there are action sequences, scripts, Boost to give you immediate accerlation rather than you earning it through momentum and maneuvering and QTEs to do everything for you. I cannot think of anything more antithetical to Sonic than a goddamn QTE.
there are two major issues with Sonic trying to compete with Mario First is how they can be adapted to 3D. Mario adapts easily to 3D because his whole thing is jumping and stomping enemies. I don’t think Sonic has as easy of a time because his main gimmick is moving fast. How do you do a game focused around that in a 3D platformer? The other thing is sheer variety of Mario games. Just going on what games have been released in the last 5 years, we’ve had a Tetris game, a racing game, Luigi’s mansion 3, paper Mario, Mario golf, Mario soccer, two remakes of turn based rpgs, princess peach showtime, warioware, and all of this on top of some solid 2D entries like wonder If Sonic wanted to compete, first thing I’d think they’d need to do is to ensure their 2D games get a solid formula and occasionally do the big HD remaster/re-releases of past good games. Then spend time hammering out the details for what makes a good 3D Sonic game and do that. All of the 3D Mario games seem to work so well because they’re largely built on the solid foundation laid by super Mario 64, so Sonic would need something similar
They don’t think it’s perfect either. A 92 on metacritc isn’t perfect. But it’s damn good. Sonic Superstars is fine, but it’s a halfassed effort compared to Mario Wonder. And therein lies the problem of Sonic games compared to mainline Mario games. 😂
4:31 that's because they reduced the game for the switch for the switch to just be able to run sonic frontiers! So the switch held this game back unfortunately..and it explains the awkward pop-ins. And as long the switch version they weren't able to fix it. We all know by now the switch held sonoc frontiers back which it really sucks in a way So it wasn't sonic team's 100% fault..
![FNAF vs TF2 - Episode 2 [SFM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z5b3V2-VLb0/mqdefault.jpg)
If you had to fight Mario with a Sonic game, which Sonic game are you bringing to the brawl?
Sonic unleashed,heros, 3 and knuckles ,generations,frontiers,mania sonic can compete with mario Sega doesn’t try with theyre games Sega disrespects sonic
Sup mathasnocuts
Sonic adventure sonic adventure 2 sonic unleashed sonic rush sonic 3 and knuckles sonic generations sonic mania
@@Son.Yoshaabro Sonic frontiers was the newest modern Sonic game
personally, unleashed.
but if i had to find the most backed up games then sonic 3 and generations
Until Sonic keeps *consistently* getting good to great games, he will never compete with Mario again. And this is coming from someone who’s been a die-hard Sonic fan for over two decades and has always preferred him over Mario
Frontiers was a huge step in the right direction, albeit unpolished, but Superstars was a beyond middling title that released next to Mario Wonder, which blows that game out of the water . How has Sega not learned by now that rushing their devs and not giving them enough time and resources will continue to keep biting them in the rear? I’m so tired of people settling for and even defending mediocrity, and I’m tired of Sega constantly sabotaging their teams’ game releases, because things will never improve if it keeps happening.
"Until Sonic keeps consistently getting good to great games, he will never compete with Mario again." Unless of course, Mario stops getting good games or Mario makes less games or retires from the gaming industry.
I'm so happy to hear someone speaking my language. It's the biggest downfall of the series for sure. As long as fans keep forgiving Sega for the crap they release, this franchise will forever remain in the gutter. Sonic CAN compete with Mario if he tried and was given the chance. It's the biggest waste of a franchise I've ever seen in gaming. And nobody is to blame more than Sega for letting that happen
The other issue I always see is that they keep shoving in pointless gimmicks and gameplay styles in the middle of the meat and potatoes of actual Sonic level design and gameplay.
@nickfurlong3369 They certainly make more intrusive concepts but I think with the right amount of SKILL and time, they could make it work. With current Sonic Team tho, I really don't think they can reach the same level of polish as Nintendo even with the time they require
@@markofthewolvessucks8930 As if that were even a possibility.
I've been a Sonic the Hedgehog fan my whole life and those games are my comfort food for gaming. But overall as a series, those games are either hit or miss. Mario has consistently put out great and timeless games while Sonic either rises or fails to the occasion. I think SEGA is ultimately holding the series back, and they were never as competent as Nintendo was. If anything I'd rather have them take the quality over quantity approach with Sonic. There are too many mediocre/bad ones among the good ones.
Sonic games will never reach the quality of Mario games unless they ask Nintendo to TEACH them how to make better Sonic games or better yet, HAVE A MARIO AND SONIC CROSSOVER PEOPLE HAVE BEEN STARVING FOR YEARS!!! Also Mario games are comfort food
Even growing up as a Sonic fan most of my life, I loved Mario's games. Sonic sure as hell has the potential to have the same game quality as Mario though. It's just that SEGA is holding Sonic Team back from truly going all out.
i want a sonic game from insomniac games!❤
@@guntherhuemer1767yeah me too
Not hard to blame Sega/Sonic Team when they're owned by the gambling company Sammy that'll do everything they can to keep the public views of the company as not the borderline illegal Japanese gambling company , aka one of the many forms of the antichrist.
@@guntherhuemer1767 That game would unironically go HARD
Sonic Team themselves nowadays haven't been all that great either let's just be honest. Half the blame can be out on them too. They're incompetent on every level to make something truly great
The answer is consistency. Sonic doesn't have that so when a good game comes out we or the critics don't know how to rate it.
Sonic has a long way to go before getting on par with Mario. Sega needs to prioritize 3 things with Sonic game development.
1. More development time
2. More budget
3. More team staff to help
Still can’t compete with Mario even with all of that
@@firestrikerii810Yeah they don’t have a chance to be honest…
Mario still would have:
1. Way more development time
2. Has way more budget
3. And has way better staff, by the time SAGA had decent staff Nintendo will have way better staff
You know what’s really sad? At least Sonic has it better than Megaman, last new original Megaman game was Megaman 11 in 2018, now it’s been reduced to people anticipating and expecting the next collection of old games. I just wanted to put that out there and share a fantastic Megamantuber who explains it all while I’m at it
ruclips.net/video/LGgVYJRyRGw/видео.html
90s: sonic beat mario with sega genesis
now days: mario beats sonic
Mario's just more consistent with his games, while Sonic experiments with his games
What about wonder?
@@lepacs14how long did it take them to make a game like that?
@@Jay2K_SZN Mario Galaxy, Mario Odyssey to name a few?
@@Yoshistar238New Super Mario Bros 1, 2, 3, and 4?
@@Pirate_Knight27new super mario bros Ds, wii and U where great
Steps to do better sonic games that can actually compete with Mario:
1: stick to the hedgehog engine 2 for at least one more decade in order to master it
2: have more than 60 people working on the games (frontiers suffered a lot from that)
3: make the concepts for the artstyle, music, story and level the design consistent with the tone, yet maintain creativity (like unleashed had with every continent)
4: playtest the games (DUh)
5: invest on quality to make marketing the game easier.
6: release the game when the game is *READY*.
I hope the really adhere to #3 and #4. Sonic frontiers made me straight up quit with how inconsistent the difficulty felt, and mainly master king koco. The game wasn't that annoying, and then bam, chaos island, and then bam, the trial towers, and then BAM the king koco trial. No reason that it should be still THIS hard on EASY mode 😭
I think they should go back to hedgehog engine 1. Unleashed looked better than frontiers. They should do a game like that style.
That still won’t work
@@Valstrax420No it didn’t. Frontiers still looked better than Unleashed
@@firestrikerii810 It looks like someone hasn't played Unleashed.
One of the biggest problems with the Sonic franchise isn't just its inconsistent quality, but the constant changes Sega keeps putting it through. The 2D games were pretty consistent, and Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 played pretty similarly, but then, Heroes decides to change things up with the team formula and its loose controls. Shadow then introduces guns and a branching story, along with even slipperier controls. Sonic 06 went back to the Adventure formula, which was fine, only to then swap it up again with Unleashed and its boost/werehog gameplay, as well as medal collecting. Both Colors and Generations improved on the Unleashed day stages design, but then, Lost World throws everything out and tries a completely new gameplay style. Forces then reintroduces the Boost and classic gameplay, but it still felt off from Colors and Generations. And finally, Frontiers throws everything out again and goes open zone, with a new combat system and world design. See what I'm saying? They refuse to stick with one formula and improve on it. Mario games may switch between being linear and non-linear, but the overall gameplay remains the same and is refined, on top of what little gimmick they add in. It feels familiar enough, but also refreshing thanks to the new additions.
Exactly. Not to mentioned Sega keeps rushing these games out. Containing many bugs or alot of unpolished designs that keeps them having solid quality games.
I will never understand their mentality of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" regarding gameplay formulas. No other gaming company does this as regularly as SEGA with Sonic.
If Sega really wants to rival Mario again, they will take what they made in Frontiers, keep with it, and polish it over future games. Refine the physics and momentum, pull away from those annoying automated sections that plagued Chaos Island, and keep adding to the ongoing lore. Bring Sage back as a main character and have her participate in boss fights with Eggman and add to the combat to make it even more fluid and fun. I may have really liked Frontiers, but I still wouldn't put it above a 7/10. There are still areas it needs fine tuning, but they're on the right track to making something great.
I'd give my left nut to see what the Adventure formula would look like if it were allowed to grow like the Mario 64 formula was allowed to do. Hopefully sega actually sticks to the Frontiers formula for a while because I can see a truly incredible game if they like actually expanded on it
Guns made Shadow The Hedgehog a fun game. Then Sega decided to cut them out in Sonic 2006 for some strange reason.
When I look at a franchise like Mario. I just see the confidence that Nintendo has in Mario to succeed. I see confidence in the team that makes Mario games, confidence in the ideas that that team has. The Mario team isn’t afraid of trying something new, but they also know how to keep the game still feeling like a Mario game. They simply just have Mario figured out in a way that Sega doesn’t necessarily have Sonic figured out. Frontiers is a great game, but when I look at Frontiers compared to a game like Mario Galaxy and Mario Wonder. I see a game that has great ideas, but doesn’t exactly make me go. Oh yeah this game just checks every single box. And does everything right. Obviously no game is perfect, there are problems in Galaxy and Wonder but they are always minor issues. At the end of the day, Sega has to put that confidence in there team and in the franchise to make Sonic as good as Mario. As someone who likes Mario more then Sonic I just have to say good luck to Sonic if that’s there intention.
Paper Mario would like a word about said "Confidence"
@@rheokalyke367 I was just talking about mainline Mario games. Spin offs can be a hit or miss, most of them I would say are good. But at least Mario actually has spin off games. Only Sonic spin off games we get are like racing games, or like small phone games.
Thanks for you concern but don't worry I believe in SEGA to deliver a Sonic game that will produce a game of quality content.😁
@@mattbelcher7135I've never read something so false sonic has had a bunch of good spinoffs even some of the mobile games are good
@@Raddish-IS-Radd ok give me a good sonic spin off game that has come out in past 10 years
Sonic surpassing Mario IS possible. But it's highly unlikely and will probably not happen in our lifetimes if at all.
Impossible it’s just bullshit
Sonic trying to compete with Mario is like TemTem trying to compete with Pokemon. Sega is more obsessed with Mario than than making a good Sonic game and its sad and pathetic. The biggest reason Sega is fighting a forever losing battle against Mario is that the Mario franchise is made up of multiple BIG BRANDS. Each character is popular and they have their own logo and they are so popular many of them can sustain their own game.
Mario - HUGE BRAND. One of the most well known characters ever made.
Bowser - MASSIVE BRAND. I'd say Bowser is right now almost as popular and well known as Mario himself
Princess Peach - HUGE rapidly GROWING BRAND with her own game coming soon
Daisy - A growing brand that Nintendo is trying to push because she is in Mario Wonder
Toad/Toadette - Midsize brand that can sustain its own game (Remember Captain Toad?)
Rosalina - Midsize brand that seems to be fading
Luigi - HUGE BRAND. Luigi alone can sustain his own game. Luigi's Mansion 3 alone sold over 11 million copies.
Peachette - A growing brand that created Bowsette. Peachette has huge potential
Pauline - An old brand that Nintendo is trying to push. She now has her own logo
Donkey Kong - Need I say more? HUGE BRAND that can sustain its own game and is so mainstream that it is ingrained in American culture with the saying, "Its on like Donkey Kong".
Can Sega make a Tails only game that sells even a thousand copies?
Hmhm... yeah.
Basically, for Mario, each of the playable characters could be considered main characters. For sonic though, they're effectively just side characters with how little importance they seem to have.
@@ambientNexus Yes. Exactly. I also forgot to mention Waluigi. His popularity has also grown over the years. A well done Waluigi game would sell a very good amount of copies.
@@Molybed1Wario- BIG GROWING BRAND- he has two stand alone series, Wario land and Wario ware (land being the "mario for big boys" and ware having and HUGE cast of supporting characters). His games are inspiring indie developers ( pizza tower and anton blast) and wario himself is an frequent character in mario spin-offs
@@igordasilva7180 I always viewed Wario as his own brand with his own cast members (Captain Syrup and the Black Sugar Gang) and his own games . Maybe I should remove Waluigi because he never showed up in a mainline Mario platform game.
Sonic hasn't competed with Mario since the 90s. The only people that still bring up their rivalry are Sonic fans. Mario fans are not worried about Sonic. I wouldn't focus on this imaginary, one-sided competition. Mario has found its footing a long time ago and is now building upon that. Sonic is still trying to find its footing when it comes to gameplay. Mario is leagues ahead of Sonic and it's almost impossible for them to catch up in only a few years. I don't want this to be a marvel-dc situation, where marvel is doing so good, and dc tries to play catch up but instead keeps releasing trash. I just want Sega to focus on improving themselves besides trying to outdo everyone else. Competition should come as a result of releasing a good game. If we get a solid decade of mainline Sonic games that are polished and of decent to high quality, then we can talk about competing with Mario. But as of right now, Sega still has to get their act together.
To be fair, this feels more like a friendly rivalry between Nintendo and Sega. They're both reliving the good old days.
It's even more funny when fans treat this as a return to the console wars.
*Rips page of* "like that's ever gonna happen, what a piece of shi-
*SOMEBODY ONCE TOLD ME-*
Mario: “I am four parallel universes ahead of you.”
i never understood why that meme had Mario on it but now it all makes sense 😂 Mario was talking about Sonic this whole time
As long as SEGA keeps rushing out the games, Sonic will NEVER be able to compete with Mario.
To expand on this: Sonic as a concept is a very hard concept to pull off, and Sega has lacked the time and budget to really pull it off to a polished level. They almost never have a polished release as a result.
Fact is Mario is impressive, but never has to worry about pop-in for a character moving through an entire hub in one minute, or screen scrolling so fast that there's no time to react to obstacles. Mario focuses almost exclusively on one character whereas every 2D Sonic game after the first game tries to have at least 2 unique chraacters. Superstars has 5. Wonder really only has 2 types of characters with a bunch of powerups; there is no difference between Luigi/Peach/Toad.
It can't be underestimated how much polish Nintendo puts into Mario, but if you ever asked yourself "why are there so few sonic competitors", there's your answer. Some designers would even say it's inherently bad game design to begin with. But I guess Sonic always thrived off of rebelling against traditional level design lol.
When I was grown up as a Sonic fan I started to like Mario but when I was liking Sonic I was like hmm I honestly think that Sonic is better than Mario but then people are saying that Mario is better than Sonic. The thing about Sonic is that there always some problems with Sonic Games but when it comes to Mario Games get 10/10 and Sonic games usually get 8/10 or 7/10 or 9/10. Sonic Superstars and Super Mario wonder been pretty repetitive and those two games were released this year and Super Mario wonder did better than Sonic Superstars. Great video Matt)
To put it simply, Sega doesn’t give Sonic Team enough time or budget to make games as good and polished as Mario games. Some problems that I have with Sonic that I don’t have with Mario are lacking animation, unpolished glitches, non consistent art style, non consistent gameplay, lacking story, and a reluctance to change. Meanwhile, all of the 5 main 3D Mario games share the same core gameplay style but just adds different powerups and moves to his arsenal and puts him in a new setting. They are polished with next to no glitches, they all have consistent art styles, and they each look very good with great animation because Nintendo doesn’t set release dates for Mario games before they know that they’re absolutely ready to be released.
Frontiers had 6 years of dev time
@@evdestroy5304 And it still wasn’t finished. Frontiers came out with tons of pop in, glitches, and a very unfinished final boss fight. Sonic Team had to fight to get this game released in November 2022 because Sega wanted to release it in 2021, an entire year before.
What do u mean by all of the 5 main 3D Mario games exactly?
@@jaretco6423 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, 3D World, Odyssey
@@cosmicevo What about Galaxy 2 & 3D Land? Those are great games too.
Sonic is never competing with Mario because Sega mistreats him so much. I know a lot of people are tired of always hearing 06 get brought up but honestly thats just because Sega still makes the same mistakes. If Sega treated Sonic half as good as Nintendo treats Mario, 06 would have been forgotten by now.
As long as o6 exists, the critics will always give the blue rat a hard time.
Yeah. You don't see the same amount of people talking about Mario 2: The Lost Levels NEARLY as much as Sonic 06. That's because Nintendo fucking learned from their mistakes and realized making an almost kaizo centric game was a disaster for them. Every other 2D Mario game since then, from 3, to World, to some of the New games, and now Wonder, is leagues better than that game.
@@SpeedyBlur2000? Lost levels is a good game, its just hard af
@@micjimster4845 As long as both Sega & Sonic Team refuse to learn from their mistakes, critics will keep bringing up those mistakes.
@nickfurlong3369 There's also Sunshine. I know there are fans of the game. But that game was really rushed in which many content, worlds or level was scrapped and there are some bugs & glitches. The only reason they rushed the heck out of it is because they wonna show how powerful the GameCube was and while it looks nice, that still didn't help on how messy the game can be.
My issue with frontiers was the gameplay loop of collecting the memory tokens. On the last island I was so bored with it I just fished for them with big to get the game moving cause I was as interested in the story more.
While is a little weird hear Sega saying they want to compete with Mario, it proves that Frontiers (and Superstars for the most part lol) made them realize how much the developers and consumers want Sonic to succeed, this past decade they pretty much treated Sonic as an easy cash grab. I think their focus needs to be quality control and consistency, experimenting is good but can prevent you from improving what was already good
Or... We can enjoy both and call it a day? Please? The whole Mario vs Sonic argument is stupid and should be left at the 90's.
I'll be honest, I despise it when Sega gets egotistical, and this line got under my skin.
I admire the ambition, but remember that overambition killed the leads to a higher fall.
Sega needs to understand the meaning of "slow down" when it comes to quality.
Ironic since Sonic hates slowing down or taking his time. Still right though, they need to not rush games.
Why are sonic fans always shooting themselves in the foot 💀💀💀
I do believe that Sonic can surpass Mario it just might take a few years since Sonic doesn't have as well received games as Mario but thats just me.
I appreciate and love the optimism Matt brings, and as much as I love Sonic, there just ain’t no way he could ever compete with Mario anymore. Mario constantly comes out with generation defining games while Sonic is still trying to find its polish. There is not one modern 3D Sonic game that compares to the level of Super Mario Odyssey. And that’s because Mario values creativity and player control over everything else. The reason SA1 is so beloved in the Sonic gameplay side is how fucking creative it is. They valued player movement, creativity, and level design. Having an absurd story was just that much better. But I wouldn’t say it’s comparable to modern standards because it hasn’t necessarily aged well and playing as like 4 other characters is dog shit. Really the only games that can compare to any 3D Mario is SA2 and Generations. Mario is just way too big and way too creative for really anyone to compete with. Before Sega and Sonic can compete with Mario, they must compete with themselves first and challenge what made fans love Sonic first. Momentum, level design that values speed yet and exploration, and a sassy blue hedgehog. Frontier got like one of those right
Only the future tell!💙
🎶 If you leap without a net you'll find, it won't be there all the time. But if you never try, you'll never knooowww🎶
Let's wait and see if Sonic is worthy to be called Mario's rival 😁
Eh Mario Oddyssey was boring tbh, found it too basic
@@ssseee3ds463 it’s literally the opposite of basic. Easy to learn, hard to master is not basic. If that’s the case, then any sonic game isn’t worth the time since it’s basic with 2D and especially boost
@@ErikLeeTroche the thing is that i’m not that fan of the levels design in Oddyssey and it’s really not that hard to master compared to say, SA2 or Unleashed (i don’t even really like SA2 lol)
@@ssseee3ds463 I mean, that is just blasphemy to say. Odyssey has more creativity in it than any sonic game combined. Looking at how the movement is and how people practice to make that movement as seamless as possible is actually hard to master. It’s simply just not true to say that it’s easy because of basic movement. Because again if that’s the case, Sonic is stupid easy. There is a reason Mario reigns supreme over literally everyone but Zelda
I think the biggest thing that they do wrong is badly doing QA testing. They need to watch QA testers play the game, listen to their feedback and have a coherent vision in order to change what needs to be changed and ignore what should stay the same for the vision.
And the testers need to be actual fans that understand what makes a game good. Not random people.
@@Valstrax420 lol obviously not. You want to see how the vast majority will play the game not the most dedicated.
@reklem2 I said actual fans. Not "most" dedicated. Plus a real fan knows a good game. A casual won't. Hence sonic frontiers testers.
If Sega wants Sonic to be on the level of Mario, then they at the very least need to stop kneecapping sonic games during their development.
Yep sadly not sure it’s going to happen.
Lol they're already kneecapped on the drawing board
@@TheSultan1470 yep
11:14 while I first laughed when I read that quote I then felt nice ‘because the fact that they really want to surpass Mario shows how passionate they are about making sonic good
So long as SEGA is only in the business of making and selling games, Sonic will never surpass Mario. Why? Simple.
Mario has to move consoles. The money made by a Mario game is more than its base profits, it's every person who gets into the Nintendo ecosystem as a result of that game. Because of that, Nintendo is willing to give those games the time and money they need to be exceptional.
Sonic doesn't have to move consoles. It has a built in audience on all platforms. SEGA will *never* put more money into a Sonic game than they stand to make on it. In fact, they are motivated to put the minimal amount of money into a Sonic game that it takes to get the bulk of the people who would buy the game. Sonic Superstars demonstrates that Sonic fans will pay standard retail price to buy a game that most publishers would probably charge under half the standard price for (IE it has a scope roughly as high as Mega Man 11, but much less polish).
Sonic can probably only "surpass" Mario in the mobile market, which is probably why they're making Apple exclusives
Great video, dude! I highly appreciate your honesty, and that you don't just side with one or the other. Sonic has the potential to be fantastic, but it's up to SEGA and Sonic Team to deliver games that most people consider to be better than some Mario games. I know they can do it!
By the end of the day, I don't see Mario and Sonic as rivals, I just see them as friends and I love them both.
@M64bros agree 💯
@M64bros I hope that Capcom catches up in the near future
@@noahalcantar2431 indeed
@M64bros how much money have you earned
@@noahalcantar2431 a bunch of surprisingly, I'm still restored to the amount of lost from earlier
Sega should have used the Comics as Inspiration for Future Games.
Is this even a question that needs to be answered? Anyone who has played both should easily be able to figure out the reason.
Sonic could 100% complete with mario if they had way better games
If you are feeling burnt out but want to still talk about Sonic, get into the Sonic Comics! Archie, STC, and the IDW run! There are so many interesting stories and concepts Sonic has done and is still doing! Story telling is an aspect Mario can’t compete Sonic in.
In terms of showcasing the world outside the video games I think that Sonic has Mario beat there given the animation adaptation of the Sonic series in the past. Plus Sonic has a better approach to live action than Mario.
As I’ve said many times before, a lot of die-hard Sonic fans also play Mario games, and a lot of die-hard Mario fans also play Sonic games. While I do believe Sonic is the better character, both he and Mario can coexist and fans can love both of them equally. So as long as SEGA and Sonic Team can work together well, I think we got ourselves a good competition here. Also, just wanna clarify, I love Sonic and Mario both; easily in my Top 10 game franchises, and still looking for a TRUE crossover game that isn’t the Olympic Games, as much as I love those games.
@@jaretco6423There’s this thing called an opinion.
@daltonsturgeon4024 every single time there's a conversation about Mario and Sonic rivalry I force in freaking Godzilla in it and use my opinion to fight against people about it
@daltonsturgeon4024 GODZILLA SUPERIOR MARIO AND SONIC INFERIOR!!!!!
But the audience is made of sonic fans 😢
Yea That’s the thing The developers want to surpass Mario But sega Doesnt Care. Sega has no problems rushing developers and underdelivering on budget people Lump Sonic team and sega together a lot But The reason Sonic Team even re uses so many assets isn’t bc they think that’s what the fans want THEY LITTERALLY don’t have the money to spare making new leveles
Mario has better sales because the developers learn what worked from one game and applied it to another while fixing the mistakes that came from another.
Sonic whenever they have one good game (Besides the classics) completely forget what worked from a game and change the gameplay style or gimmick to please fans and not try to stick with a formula and try to fix the issues coming from it.
Time management is also what really holds Sonic back since they want to make quick money and because of that, games like Sonic 06 and Sonic Boom are created. In order for them to truly be on par or even surpass Mario, they need to figure out what works from their games and doesn’t and polish it out. More time needs to be given too so it would turn out great.
i'd love to see 'em try but to even start they need a team and production schedule comparable to nintnedo's regular dev cycle
Keep up the good content! I think sonic would be able to compete if we got games like sa2. And can we get your opinion on Spark the electric jester 3? Since it is the game I wish frontiers was.
Interesting video! I honestly think 50% of why Sonic struggles to be on the top top is because of recency bias hate and it can kinda be seen everywhere
Sonic team developed Frontiers with a development team of 60 people.
SEGA net worth $3.6 Billion Nintendo net worth $55 Billion
if sega wants sonic to compete with mario, then imagine if microsift throws their hat in the ring with crash and spyro
If sega even wants a chance at beating mario they need quality control, many spin offs, and more time for the delpovers. They could maybe do a cross over with mario but even with all that it might be to little to late. Sega also needs to stop making such big goals they need to make smaller goals to reach the bigger ones
Opinion: Sega only had a chance to compete with Mario in the 90s. To put it frankly, Sonic simply no longer has the vision it once had and the franchise feels scattered and not cohesive. Also the fact that at least in America there will always be stigma around Sonic (the 3D entries especially) I don't personally think Sonic ever can surpass Mario, but that's just me.
He can't surpass Mario, but he at least can release more quality games IF SEGA just puts more caring and time into his titles.
First step is LITERALLY SEGA love its mascot. With this, they can catch the tram with Mario.
I feel like after Sonic Adventure 2 and after Sega left the console business, they just stopped caring about the quality of the titles and just rushed them out to get a quick buck. Like what Matt said in the video, competition can really help a game company to focus on quality control. Granted they should always focus on that, but when you are a business trying to be a success, competition comes a long way in helping reach that goal. Sega competed against Mario and Nintendo with Sonic in the 1990's. Then, they actually cared about the quality of his games, and kept improving upon each game. Starting with the Adventure games though, while they were still both huge successes, they kept adding in weird gameplay styles that...frankly I don't think anyone really asked for besides giddy 5 year olds. After that they never fully recovered. They are still repeating the same mistakes they've made in the past, to this day.
Often times I felt that the stigma around Sonic would get out of control, overblown to the point where it simply became cool and popular to hate Sonic and just basically bully Sonic fans in general, especially around the late 2010’s where this was most prevalent. It was not a fun time to be a Sonic fan and it did not help my mental health at all, it only contributed to my depression, self-loathing, and thoughts of unaliving myself later on. Obviously, I have other and much more personal reasons for having such horrible thoughts, but still. Seeing something that has been with you since childhood and that you’re passionate about having so much stigma and mockery surrounding it and the very idea of being a fan of said thing also comes with so much hatred, disgust, mockery, and negative generalizations can take a toll on your mental health. I know it may sound silly, but that can happen when you’re suddenly exposed to an overwhelming amount of negativity and you’re not sure how to react to it or you’re hated and mocked by others for things that are out of your control. Especially generalized in a negative way all because of the actions of some infamous fans that you’ve never interacted with nor heard of. Like, I can’t control what those people do in their lives nor am I responsible for their actions and behavior so what the fuck am I supposed to do about it?
It especially did not help when some of the people mocking Sonic Fans would heavily use autism as an insult given that I’m autistic myself so it also started feeling like a personal attack over something that I never asked for. But I believe that was around the time when Cringe Culture was around and people were more edgy and commonly used things like autism as an insult. It’s hard being a Sonic fan indeed. And lonely. It’s like being a character that has suffered more than Ellie from The Last of Us Part 2.
@@SpeedyBlur2000 tbh, I'm fine with the Adventure games being "weird". Even because their gameplay variations are actually well-handed, in my opinion.
But yeah, the thing is SEGA never improved upon it. Instead, they just kept experimenting and adding different gameplay designs without knows what makes Sonic good...
There's a scene in Mad Men where a guy comes to Don Draper and says that he thinks of him everyday and looks forward when he'll be more successful than him... And then Don Draper says that he never thought about him for a single day lol
I think that sums up that Sonic comment there.
The issue with Sonic not reaching the levels of charisma and popularity is because of the type of game, Mario platformers are way more approachable. The quality matters for sure, but going as fast as you can versus taking in the gameplay and casual appeal... That's not comparable at all.
The only downside from the competition between sonic and mario is the fights it can generate between fans tbh, its pretty annoying (like what Playstation and Xbox fans has). I see this statement as a more friendly competition, like both franchises wanting to stand toe to toe with each other, walk in the same path so to speak. I'm pretty hopeful about the next game!
I highly doubt that Sonic would ever surpass Mario given that Nintendo has had forty years to build a lineup of rock solid quality titles. Not saying every Mario game is a 10/10 but they sure as heck are a lot more consistent in quality than Sonic games. Sonic has potential to be a solid franchise similar to what Mario has but that’s only if SEGA and Sonic Team put in the work to handle their ip right.
Mario is just the face of game industry. The Mickey Mouse of gaming. Sonic can't just "compete".
But the least they can do is make a "good" game
He can
@@samisky35not really,
The entire Mario franchise has sold over 800 Million units, while sonic.......only 130 Million units. It's a Pretty huge gap
@@SMD965OFFICIAL He can
If Mario’s the Mickey Mouse of Gaming
Sonic’s GOT to be the Bugs Bunny.
"I can feel the plates shifting"
Me before sonic forces
i don't think sonic could ever be better then mario, but i do think sonic could rival mario games like they used to back in the day. they also need to appeal to all audience instead of a large group of audience because mario games can be played by anyone in any pase, while sonic is just fast pace
"Unfinished doesn't equal bad..."
*Shows on the screen Unfinished = Bad*
Sonic and Mario games have their own gameplay style and audience,the difference between them is "Who does their thing better?",that's where Nintendo takes the W,Sega for some reason just makes objectively bad Sonic games with problems and glitches that hinder the experience,while Nintendo make AND FINISH their Mario games,Sega needs to properly manage development if they want to compete with Mario
I think Sonic will never be equal with Mario let alone surpassing him💀
Just so happy to hear this spirit from them 😍 you don't know how much happiness this brings me...
I believe in them, Sonic will surpass Mario someday and show everyone that they're the dark horse of the competition 🔥☺️
I like your optimism lol
Idk about everyone else but im excited to see what your experimental ideas are
Sonic as a franchise is the Potential Man meme
In a nutshell, Nintendo gives their team the freedom and time to flesh out their games and ideas as much as possible with Mario to make as good of a game as possible
Pair that with the consistency of said quality games and then you just look at our blue blur very sadly
After the first 2 adventure games it didn't feel like Sega had absolute confidence in their own team and gave them limited budget and time for most projects, and when one idea doesn't make literal bank, they abandon it and try something COMPLETELY new, if frontiers didn't succeed like it did safe to say we wouldn't have any idea what the next sonic game would have been anywhere like, Heck I don't know if dream team would have been pushed forward seeing how much ideas from frontiers it tries to emulate and even flesh out and execute in a more sonic visual aesthetic and style
When they even have a working formula they still try to experiment, colors and generations were 2 hits in a row, and they follow it up with lost world and boom, colors and generations gave them the opening they needed, that wasn’t the time to experiment it was the time to double down on what worked
I don't know what the future holds for Sonic after SEGA stated they wanted to compete with Mario. But whatever that may be, we can only wait and see.
I’ll just put it like this. Sonic Surpassing Mario Is Indeed Possible, But it all depends on SEGA. They can say they want to surpass Mario all day long, But Action Speaks louder then words, They have to prove they really want such a thing to happen, otherwise they’re just talking out their Tails.
New Sonic Cycle just dropped
New subpar Sonic game releases -> fans are underwhelmed -> Sega makes statement saying how THIS time they're going to focus on improving the quality of their games -> fans become optimistic and hopeful -> rinse repeat
trust me ive been a sonic fan since i was freaking born
I can think of two huge problems off the bat on why they aren't getting on Mario's level:
1. A huge portion of the Sonic games released in the last 15 years are mediocre at best while a much smaller portion of Mario games released in that time suffer from that. Even those Mario games that were mediocre at best were mostly spinoffs, while we've had multiple mainline Sonic games with crappy quality with the most recent being Sonic Forces.
2. The Sonic designers seem to have forgotten what made Sonic so great in the first place, while the Mario designers capture that every time. We've rarely if ever seen multiple pathways in a stage like Sonic 2 had in many of its levels recently for example. Sonic Forces is the worst offender because stages are straight lines where you can't improve your times without exploits after a few tries.
Frankly, chasing Mario is what lead to shoving mario type powerups into a Sonic game and the whole of Lost World. I'm not ready for a Lost World 2. The thing is, sonic was designed to be everything mario wasn't. I'm here to play sonic games, not mario games with a sonic skin.
some people are like: "why sonic can't compete with mario!" others are like "why mario can't compete with sonic!", i like mega man
i like wario
Or Crash Bandicoot.
If SEGA or Sonic Team haven’t rush before the deadline it could a good/great/amazing game but usual they keep getting between mediocre or bad (expect for Sonic Generations, Sonic Colours, Sonic Frontiers PC & PS4 Version and Sonic Mania Plus)
Every time SEGA or Sonic Team keep repeating history (rushing new games development) they’re doom to fail
And they why Mario will always be the final victor
The reason why Mario is more succeedful than Sonic is not only does he has far better quality of games, but it's also more polished as they weren't rushing through them and not having as the amount of bugs or glitches as Sonic has. Yeah. Not all Mario games are winners. The recent Mario Sports games, Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Lost Levels and as controversial as it maybe; Super Mario Sunshine are best examples that tries to have potential, but wasn't exactly very well design, not solid quality games, pretty rushed that didn't have enough content or having buggy moments and aren't gonna appeal to everyone. But even those are nowhere near as awful as you compare it to the likes of say Sonic 06, Boom: Rise of Lyric or Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood. Mario has an few lows. But there are tremendous high games that outweighs the bad ones. Meanwhile Sonic's is all over it. Some good. Some meh. Others are either mediocre or just plain bad. Mario has like 90% of good games, while Sonic has an hit or miss.
I think Osamu Ohashi might be blind to the reason Sonic fails to compete with Mario any more.
Anyway competition is only good when it's good honest competition, the reason I'm saying this is because I'm still annoyed at how Epic has been trying to "compete" with Steam by doing exclusivity deals rather then attempting to make their launcher comparable to Steam's.
no they are saying that because they respect mario for being as successful as it is they arent saying it in a competitive sense. its just saying "we want sonic to be successful too"
No they said they want surpass Mario. That is a competitive statement.
@@crustykeycap5670 Of course they do. That's competition, but not necessarily in a hostile sense
@@TheSultan1470 i know i didn't say it was hostile. i was saying it was a competitive statement
@@crustykeycap5670 yes but its out of respect, they want to catch up with mario and surpass him because they respect mario
@@ReadyboyReady-te6nc yes they have acknowledged mario as a rival they want to surpass. not necessarily hostile or disrespectful, just a competitive statement.
When a Mario game is bad, the worst you can say about it is it's boring and derivative. When a Sonic game is bad, it's a roaring dumpster fire.
Sonic can have higher highs than Mario, but it also has much lower lows.
*The game was so good, sega has offically announced there making a second one with even nega wisp armor clones and their most exciting and engaging level yet, where you run for 2.5 seconds on a straight line.*
I don't think Superstars is unfinished at all.
Because reviewers and critics will keep looking for excuses to bash on good Sonic games to give them low ratings
Mario is far more consistent than Sonic. While I prefer Sonic over Mario, Mario has a tried and true formula. All Nintendo does is tweak things just a bit and then you get games like Mario Wonder, a fantastic 2D Mario, probably the best 2D Mario ever. They nailed the formula decades ago with both 2D and 3D. 2D Sonic's formula was nailed too with Sonic 2 and perfected with 3 and Knuckles. 3D Sonic is so inconsistent though. For every good game, there's another really bad game. Every time they have a winning formula, Sega tries to reinvent the wheel, which results in games like Shadow, 06 and Forces. Every time the Sonic franchise has a new potential that rival Mario, they screw it up. Frontiers' problems can ALL be ironed out in the sequel. Superstars was meh, compared to Mario Wonder. Frontiers and Superstars both have issues, all Sega needs to do is just stick with it. Iron out their issues and make games that are truly special.
The last time Sega tried to compete with Nintendo, they lost the console wars.
@TheR3DSniper edit your comment by changing "complete" to "compete"
@TheR3DSniper why did Sega lost the console wars
The inherent nature of Sonic makes him more interesting, as Mario really isn't allowed to do much with its characters. But I cannot deny that Mario games are pretty consistent. Sonic is such a mixed bag of potential, it hurts at times when they shoot themselves in the foot.
I'll still be a Sonic fan at the end of it all. But I do hope they are looking to give Sonic the QA he really needs.
Well if you gotta know... Sonic Superstars just got nominated for Best Family Game at the Game Awards
I sware i read "best family guy" at first lol
That piece of trash doesn't deserve it!!!
and then it lost to super mario wonder..
As someone who's a fan of both, I still see them both as equals. Sonic's games are hit and miss, but have more substance and lore, and while Mario's games are consistently polished, they'll lack depth and can be stale.
This is not a rivalry anymore. One side clearly surpass the other (at least since 2003).
The bigger overarching issue is SEGAs handling of Sonic. They never give games the proper time needed to come out, they rush games out in unfinished states and try to fix them later. They also have terrible business practices that negatively affect the consumer, look at the Sonic origins situation if you need an examole
I feel like Sonic just doesn't lend himself as well to good game play as Mario simply because he's too fast. The problem is, I think most want to either take their time traversing a level, or not have their momentum constantly being interrupted by bullshit obstacles. Too often, though, Sonic feels like he's on rails. He's a good mascot, but a bad character to try and control. Mario games, meanwhile, are less about attitude, and more about game play, and there's always some element that has been added to make the games feel fresh.
I mean sonic is still here after 30 years and some of the best games of all time include at least one sonic game like 2 or 3&k. The gameplay isn't the problem
Yeah. That's why I couldn't into most Sonic game. Going too fast can cause alot of problems if not done correctly.
Also, a huge problem is most games only have Sonic playable. And the representation of other Sonic characters which have little screentime and are quickly reduced to being on his cheerleading team saying "Go Sonic! You can do this!" Plus another thing is Mario games have so much ideas and spin offs which are all good. Most Sonic games are still running quickly to the end through frustrating level design of multiple levels, fight Eggman, day is saved, and left with nothing else to do but beat the levels as fast as you can.
@@pinksywedarnoc8017That's just the 2010s all the other ones had more than Sonic playable.
All of this it’s true and now the sonic dev team of sonic frontiers are trying to find out what Zelda tears of the kingdom game core 6 run off of that made it look so good. Despite the sonic frontiers being sold more copies in western than it did in Japan. And now they are slowing starting to release what going on why the recent sonic games are not doing good.
Sonic = virgin
Mario = Chad
As a bigger fan of sonic than mario but i feel like they cant compete anymore lol
Mario power level: It's over 9000
Quick question, do u think sonic dream team will be good as mania? I heard pretty good reviews about it!
Another thing is that Nintendo isn’t altering canon so drastically likely Sega. Nintendo is sticking rather to the old canon making rather less original characters unlike Sega and their own fan characters…etc. Back then for instance nowadays when you look at it Epic Games had Jazz Jackrabbit. Super Mario Bros. is about rescuing royal damsels in distresses not about rescuing planets worlds likely in case of Sonic the Hedgehog.
I mean, I’d say that Mario just has less story. That isn’t a bad thing though. However, Mario has a pretty wacky world. The concept of Mario is what makes its wackiness and inconsistency in canon work better.
Like the original Mario’s plot is an Italian plumber has to save a princess, who rules over a mushroom kingdom, from a dragon-turtle king. Growing up with it makes it sound less weird but I bet if you explained that to someone who had never heard of Mario would probably be confused
7:21 well the good news is that they were already doing this they did that with frontiers,sonic rumble and the recent upcoming game sonic X shadow generations idk about Superstars..if they playtested this one or not I have no information if superstars was playtested
This guy is a producer, his job is to gather the resources (budget) from investors (Sega) to pass to the dev team. I don't think he's doing a good job, because it constantly feels like Sonic games suffer from small budgets and staff.
Sonic has always been doomed to this. Sonic is fast, and while that can be a cool gimmick, you gotta be very careful designing 2D levels that don’t feel unfair, or 3D levels that Sonic doesn’t break instantly. That’s why Mario platformers are so much less messy, because Mario goes at his own pace and Nintendo can focus on putting him into interesting and fun situations.
interesting how mario wonder devs reportedly had like no deadlines or crunch and the game is regarded as one of marios best, meanwhile sonic is constantly rushed and doesnt turn out nearly as good...
Nintendo understands the design philosophy and appeal of Mario whereas Sega just doesn't. Mario Odyssey still uses the base principles established in 1999, but finds new ways to experience them, allowing old and new fans to enjoy. Same with Wonder.
Meanwhile, Frontiers is an absolute mishmash and ideas, experiences and trends with superficial connections to his original success(ie shameless nostalgia abuse) which is why when a kid sees Mario, he knows his money will be well spent.
When we see Sonic, we have no idea what we're in for.
Also Sonic needs to stop taking control from the player. This is a biggie. Sonic represents the expression of player creativity in the form of speed and skill which is why mastering the classics is so rewarding. Blitzing through the level is a demonstration of your skill.
In Frontiers, there are action sequences, scripts, Boost to give you immediate accerlation rather than you earning it through momentum and maneuvering and QTEs to do everything for you. I cannot think of anything more antithetical to Sonic than a goddamn QTE.
To me Mario games are the same for the mainline games mainly because the story is the same in every game.
there are two major issues with Sonic trying to compete with Mario
First is how they can be adapted to 3D. Mario adapts easily to 3D because his whole thing is jumping and stomping enemies. I don’t think Sonic has as easy of a time because his main gimmick is moving fast. How do you do a game focused around that in a 3D platformer?
The other thing is sheer variety of Mario games. Just going on what games have been released in the last 5 years, we’ve had a Tetris game, a racing game, Luigi’s mansion 3, paper Mario, Mario golf, Mario soccer, two remakes of turn based rpgs, princess peach showtime, warioware, and all of this on top of some solid 2D entries like wonder
If Sonic wanted to compete, first thing I’d think they’d need to do is to ensure their 2D games get a solid formula and occasionally do the big HD remaster/re-releases of past good games. Then spend time hammering out the details for what makes a good 3D Sonic game and do that. All of the 3D Mario games seem to work so well because they’re largely built on the solid foundation laid by super Mario 64, so Sonic would need something similar
This is why i despise Game journalists, makes me feel that Mario is WAY too overrated, Wonder is good but not perfect
They don’t think it’s perfect either. A 92 on metacritc isn’t perfect. But it’s damn good. Sonic Superstars is fine, but it’s a halfassed effort compared to Mario Wonder.
And therein lies the problem of Sonic games compared to mainline Mario games. 😂
@Monhamd1000 Godzilla surpasses both Mario and Sonic because of badassery
4:31 that's because they reduced the game for the switch for the switch to just be able to run sonic frontiers!
So the switch held this game back unfortunately..and it explains the awkward pop-ins.
And as long the switch version they weren't able to fix it.
We all know by now the switch held sonoc frontiers back which it really sucks in a way
So it wasn't sonic team's 100% fault..