Smart Fortwo 450 Starter Motor change. First, remove everything...
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- Опубликовано: 4 сен 2024
- What a stupid place to put the starter motor! We opt to drop the entire rear subframe to gain access, but it still isn't easy! The Smart 450 or Fortwo is a bit of a pain to work on.
Huge thanks to Matt and Craig for their help, Evilution for useful information and you for watching.
HubNut merchandise available at hubnut.org
#smartcars #tinkering #workshop
Next time you drop the subframe it’ll be under two hours,welcome to Smart ownership, you’ve reached the first qualifying criteria.
That looks to be remapped to me from the look of speed accrual/ sound of the engine.
Safe mode is triggered through overboost, it could be down to exhaust manifold leaks (which you may be able to see underneath) or someone has ‘wound tight’ the wastegate arm for more boost beyond what has been mapped for. All of these items are accessible from underneath/ at the back.
Best of luck from a fellow (very experienced) Smart owner!
Location of starter motor, Intercooler, aircon, sub-frame, limp mode, I think I'll stick to my 1960s Triumphs thank you very much.
The part you circled is the fuel pressure regulator and the hose goes to the intake on the other nipple where you repaired the breather hose. Also the one-way valve on the breather is often faulty as well so check it, too. And you really should've done the spark plugs when you had the engine down, much easier that way!
Thanks. Plugs were done less than 100 miles ago.
User manual department: Everything is way too difficult. People will just think this is a really stupid car.
Marketing department: Well in that case we'll call it a Smart. That'll fool 'em.
Haynes manual ..to change a starter motor, first remove the rest of the car 🤔
Great little tinkering video Ian, and well done to Mr Pink and Craig for giving you a hand.
...yeah, I miss these videos. Putting me off when Mrs Hubnut is in almost every vid now
What a crazy job. Good to have friends.
I bet Mr Kitch would be absolutely thrilled to work on this one 😁
Bloody well done! What a nightmare job! Well done Ian and the team!
I think we need to see the directors cut of this video with all of the swearing in 😁
I'm keen to learn a few Welsh swear words
This may now win top prize for cars I hope I never have to work on. I can see why bike engine swaps for these are so common
It's not like a normal car setup... but like anything, once you have done it once, it's like riding a bike you won't forget 😁
@@Jaxs2, is it physical or mental scars that ensure you don't forget? ;-D
@@tomwinch9107 😁... probably both 🫣
I guess everything is easy to work on after a Citroën GS. 😅
@@tomwinch9107 it's probably both 🫣
Hubnut did a thing, nice to get a positive outcome for a change
German engineering at its finest especially mid 2000’s accounting led designs
Well done Ian. Limp mode could be down to over boost protection or a boost leak around that iffy rubber coupler on the throttle body to boost pipe joint. Either of those or a slightly duff MAP sensor. Hope you get to the bottom of it
Cheers. The fuel pressure regulator pipe is very flimsy so even though it is now fitted, I think it is collapsing under vacuum.
At 10:36 I was looking if there is a gaping hole in that ”iffy rubber coupler” for the boost pipe connection. But could be just weird shape.
I’ve had two smart 450 and I loved them both, especially the cabriolet. Top tip is to change gear yourself and ignore auto unless you are in city traffic and get used it before you judge it. The clutch servo is quite easy to take off and service and you can dramatically improve the gear change speed. The electrics will play up due to the horrible lead free solder that results in dry joints. Well done for getting that started done, I bet that now you have done one you could do another In a third of the time. These cars were just not designed to be serviced by home mechanics, but it’s all doable.
Cheers. Auto mode is indeed hopeless!
I would skip trying to weld the exhaust. It often ends up in making the hole bigger. Time to invest in a new one.
He don't do NEW
Sometimes the local exhaust people can make one from their selection of bits and reasonably priced too.@ZafiraSteve
smart exhausts are incredibly expensive, that box isn't just the silencer but also contains the catalytic converter so the cost of replacements is spiteful
“Cheap” after market one circa £150 (not recommended) original one circa £300 😳
@@crispindry2815 chicken wire and exhaust paste 😁👍🇮🇪
Excellent, Ian , enjoyed that. Pleased, it's on the road 👌, You could try disconnecting the battery for 10 min and reconnect , it can sometimes reset things ... check the Turbo /manifold, make sure it is nice and tight, and also make sure there are no leaks in the vacuum pipes ... it may have also had a remape ?that can cause issues sometimes 🤔
It resets as soon as you turn off and on again. Suspect hoses or the boost controller.
@HubNut Ian by totally disconnecting the battery... 10 / 15 mins it powers down a and starts from scratch... if it has been remaped, you don't lose it 🙏 it's like an old laptop. It remembers crap .. unless you disconnect the battery and then it reboots 😄
Well done to friends that give you a hand! Plus MiniHubnut’s camo game is strong!
Great to see the Smart motoring on up the road, she looks very gutsy. That looked like a whole bunch of work, very well done to the guys who helped too. Amazing how much can be achieved when the weather is with us. Fascinating how they package all the engine and running gear into such compact cars.
Been very tempted to buy one myself to teach my son to drive.
Wow , just wow ! I think i never want to own one now .
I had one got rid after 6 months, horrible things everything is hard work.
A top job Hubnutters and helpers. She lives again to enjoy time out on the open road. I guess this is one of those jobs that if you know how to do it from the outset takes a lot less time. The amount of jobs that I've tried in the distant past that required taking all sorts of stuff off just to learn how to get to other stuff took ages then finding out that I needn't have bothered doing half the stuff. Anyway, let's hope that the limp mode issue is diagnosed and hopefully an easy and cheap fix.
Congratulations on getting that sorted. Hearing the Singer sewing machine starting up made the hell on earth seem worthwhile.
Regards the faltering power, it may be relearning. Give it time.
Great to see the Smart running and driving, think this could beat Myrtle the Matiz as my favourite Hubnut fleet car!
It never stresses me out working on other people's cars, things seem to go to plan! When it's my own though it's best to do it with mates, I always find it goes along with less stress if there's some banter and a few points of view.
So that looks like it is designed for you to drop the subframe for any work needed. Future classic this, if not actual classic. That rarest of things, a Hubnut win. (Success)
My mate had one of these brand new back in 2004, and he said you either take it to a dealer, or drop the rear subframe. I think he ended up doing most of the stuff him self on his, due to the cost and time, when it ran out of warranty. His ended up been scrapped off, due to the mileage and what it needed doing. He had done 70k and the engine was an oil burner by then. He said it was getting very expensive to fix, and that was him doing it. The car didn't see 10 years old at all, might have been lucky to have seen 6 years. A work mate had a newer model and that had some trouble, and no garage was keen on going anywhere near it at all, Due to the faff on. He was either getting quoted on what the car was worth at the time, or they said we cannot touch it.
even to service them you were supposed to drop the engine. lots of mechanics decided that was too much faff and just changed the oil and celled it done.
@@procta2343 I read somewhere when these were relatively new that the engine had a design life of 60-70k miles.
@@Graham_Langley yeah my mates was an oil burner at 70k, and it was on its last legs.
For goodness sake get the underside of that cleaned off, take it where the commercial trucks go if you can't do it yourself
That was a job and a half, crikey! Well done Ian and friends.👍 Fingers crossed you're able to get the running issue sorted.
Good to see it now starts, I rebuilt the engine on mine, the first rebuild i have ever done but it was straightforward. Once the engine/subframe is lowered its not much more work to take it out completely and its then much easier to work on.
What a result, well done you lot! "Bloody Cowling", wasn't he the boss in The Professionals?
Absolutely brilliant video Ian ❤👍 and well done to the guys for helping you at least she's running now mini hubnut certainly likes tinkering brilliant
Great video. Really enjoying this series. Fingers crossed for the little Smart. As you know ... I love mine!
Mini hub nut looks like mum so much and sounds like her. Good job on the smart I would have been swearing with how awkwardly placed the starter motor was
Great video. Really enjoyed the progress on this one. Good to have supportive pals. I do like your Smart.
Nice to see you’ve got a yellow spares car parked in front of the wheelbarrow at 6:00
Ha!
Job jobbed: thanks guys, she’s running! The HubNut family is happy and so am I (not owning a Smart). Have always a nice trip with your convertible… See you soon - Martin
🚗🔥💨🇩🇪
I bought one of these little freaky little carts about 9 months ago, apart from fact they dont like bumps, its a nippy little runabout, always started first go after the inherant hesitation, but now the hesitation is permenant. Looks like im going to be getting mucky trying to dig that tick of a starter motor out of my freaky little cars butt. Carry On
They often seem to sound like that to be honest.
Well done, Ian. You may find an intermittent problem with either the throttle position sensor or the mass air flow sensor. Keep in mind that the electrics of that era are multiplexed, which is Bosch taking up the burned out torch from Lucas Electrics. Lucas invented darkness. Robert Bosch refined and perfected it.
Wait until you have to change an indicator bulb! Even better, the front wing comes off to change a headlamp bulb.
The location of the secondary air pump looks like it's well positioned to get contaminated with road dirt!
Well, Im in the States, and after watching these videos on the Smart and really thinking about a Cabriolet I went out and Bought a Fiat 500C 🤦 I blame Hubnut things 🤣 Fantastic to see it running finally! Cheers!
Imagine if you couldn't do it yourself -the labour charges in a garage would be more than the car is worth! Thinking of the days when I could swap the starter motor of my MK1 Cortina in 20 minutes flat!
What is your aversion to cleaning? Whilst the vehicle is dismantled, what's an extra half hour to power wash all the crud off?
We have no water supply.
@@HubNut could you not install a water tank that would fill from the roof when it rains or at least suggest the owner of the building does, it would benefit you both ?
Yes an IBC tank or 2 would soon fill with all the rain
@@jamesbrett6518 One of my 66 Gal rain water butts filled from empty to overflowing in one typical rainy day we have here in South Wales yesterday ! The water is collected from just a standard single flat roof garage
@@Ivorbiggin perhaps they don't get enough rain there 😂😂😂😂
... and a set of long service bolts are really handy
Having owned several Smarts, I feel your pain but stick with it, they really are fun and economical little characters.
Wehey, I am here as the video launches!
this explains why, when these start having some trouble, they can become breakers. Due to the time and hassle, from what i have read in the past. i would hate to think how much that would have cost in labour at a garage, just to change a 3 bolt starter motor out, that would have been normally 2 hour job if that on some cars.
Good vid 👌.. last time i changed the starter on a 500 series i took out the alternator and removed the starter out through the same way... it is possible but maby having a choice of tools help.. stay safe 🏴
When you turn the ignition key to the "start" position on a Smart you're doing no more than telling the computer that you'd like the car to be running. To begin with it feels like a conventional car, where that extra bit of twist controls the starter motor but on the Smart it doesn't. You can turn the key then release it and the starter motor might not activate for another five seconds or so after you've released it.
Omg....thought you said new starter. I'd definitely would of fitted a new one....but as usual great video, honest video of how retro cars are like to work on.
I'm so glad you got some kind of win out of that. I had a random flashback to my last year at school, and a friend who had a pre-war Morris 8, which he worked on in his garage. There is no question that modern cars are better: but I do wonder if all the complexity is necessary for that improvement.
13:50 If only everybody switched to sustainable fuels, smelly cars would be less of a problem. I was driving on the motorway and started getting hungry. I wondered why, and then saw that the van in front proclaimed its use of bio-diesel. No wonder I was suddenly fantasizing a nice serve of chips.
Nice work Ian 👍
A Superb result!
Glad to friends helping your mental health. That limp mode thing is weird though. All the best at the jumble. What new bits will you come home with? 😅
Watching this sitting in an EQ. Great vid as usual
Halfway thru I thought, oh god, tell me he’s tested the used starter - it worked, so well done but what a job. I recently bought a older Skoda fabia for my son and to check the power steering you have to take the battery out, which you can only do after removing the air box so of course no one’s ever done it and the top won’t unscrew without breaking it #grumble.
Will the smart be a fix and flip or a keeper
another great video has always Ian and Carly miss/mrs hubnut and hublets and hubmutt 👍
Flipper. We have too many cars.
Engine compartment ambient temperature sensor possibly? Starting to like your 4,2. Great stuff thanks.
That's the cutest little starter ever..... aw...... 🤣
Well done
Not that I was ever going to buy a smart fortwo anyway, but I'm deffo not now.. my Audi A2 is difficult enough, but this thing is in a different league,!
I couldnt own car with that level of access. Having said that my own car is not a lot better. Bring back thr Triumph Herald ! 😂
You have to wonder why they didn't build a removable access panel onto the bulkhead behind the seats.
I have only worked on one smart.(Didit in 2003)It was one of the early. Just regular service. But no oil plug. Had to suck it out. Tempted to put one in.
This one has an aftermarket sump with drain plug thankfully.
What kind of engineer designs a car without a sump plug?
......... but they are such well thought out vehicles..... Said no one, ever, unless you are half pork pie short of a picnic
Brilliant job on the Smart, top stuff, best wishes.
You beat me saying a pain in the bum because it looks like that. I'd dread to think the labour bill if a garage did it too.
I am sure Mercedes labour rates are as cheap as chips.................
Interesting Job Ian, well done for having the patience to see it through.
Sounds like you might have a degrading coil pack on one plug maybe? can you put a tester on them to check if they degrade as they warm up? or does have a traditional coil? if it does maybe clean the connections and replace the lead for a new one.
No misfire, no codes.
Ok that's weird, I told you in a comment on an earlier video my 2003 smart city coupe cabriolet wont start without a foot on the brake pedal. I wasn't making it up I promise! Imagine my surprise when yours just started up without the brake depressed.
And yes, mine sounds like trying to start a car that's had timing too far advanced as well. Disconcerting at first but I am used to it now.
Not going to lie Ian . Nasty to work on ...nasty to look at just not the car for me . Still watch your videos.
Oh I bloody love the looks. It's the only reason I put up with it!
Blood, sweat and tears, but then the Smart drives again.
After you pulled over and switched off/on, when you were accelerating it sounded much like a boost leak. If that’s the case, it could send the turbo into overdrive which the ecu would cut the power to protect the engine. Same thing happened on the wife’s qashqai. Check all your hose clips on the boost circuit and check the pipes for any tears. Easy way to check is to get someone to sit inside with their foot on the accelerator and the brake and just load a bit of boost up. You should see/hear if there’s a leak
Most E51 Elgrands are 35 litre V6 petrol - there is also a 2.5 litre 4 pot. LPG conversions are quite common. If you were behind an E50 it might be diesel.
It was an E51, hence why the smoke was confusing.
It's all about the boost , about the Boost
Looking at that dirty great exhaust silencer hanging out the back just makes me think of TWC!
Excellent Video, Glad I only had to watch
I see you have the milk container lid washer bottle update too. 😂
I had similar, but much less, grief when replacing my starter on a Porsche 911. Water pump.was just as much *fun*. And its interesting these difficulties, for its the dealers and their mechanics (and not the manufacturer) who makes the money from such replacements.
What a massive ballache, but great achievement. I know what you're saying about having other people to help, when you're doing a big job and it never seems to be coming to an end when there's someone else to help it always makes things easier. ps This might not be the answer with your boost problem, but I did wonder about that big hose end that you showed that looked a bit distorted, just wondered if you might be getting an air leak there.
missed an opportunity to lower young Master HubNut into the engine compartment by his ankles
Fantastic and amazing, Ian! So glad it worked!
You needed to disconnect the radiator hoses; you talked about having to refill the coolant. But did you end up having to disconnect the air conditioning system or no?
We were able to move the air con pump without disconnecting it due to the generous flexible pipework.
Sounds like a vacuum issue. Since I had the problem on both my old 9-5 and VW T4, all the little vacuum pipes are the first things I change on any « new » turbo car I buy…
Well done on a difficult task.
Silly idea but apparently a known problem that shows no codes & gives limp mode, check the plug for the high pressure fuel pump is clipped in. If it's plugged in it will run but if it's not properly clipped it will randomly go into limp.
Hahaha............would make a great Chapter for a Haynes Manual. Starter Motor Removal........1. Remove the Engine 2..............
Was so excited to see the Sana driving through Ffostrassol last week!
At least it has something in common with mercedes... a right pain to work on
It looks as if the best way forward would be to drop everything down 👍
Nice job. Im sure once you’ve done this the first time, subsequent times become trivial.
Well done getting 'one job' done on the car that gives back like a smart Alec ...
Do you have a diversion planned when on route back from the auto-jumble?
From the experience of having paid for storage for 'stuff too good to throw that has been taken to several car boot sales and still not sold', I can recommend cutting your losses ... virtually nothing that didn't sell the first time was sold after that.
I'd suggest only keeping items small enough to post and offering the hublets all profits on ebay sales ... though perhaps for rare parts, once you have catalogued them, you've got a large enough reach in the car community to find a good home for the real rarities.
Good luck!
Wow, my first cars, you could climb into the engine bays and work with the luxury of free space.
I'm sure they'd have found a way to hide the exhaust silencer under something complicated if they could have 😂
I like the look and size of the Smart ForTwo. Looks to be bit of an awkward car to work on though.
What cool little cars smarts are! Nice work.
Well done on that one now take a rest though. You sound (and look) really under the weather. I'm guessing you've got (had) the dreaded cough/breathing issues which are afflicting everyone these days and take a good few weeks to get through your system. You and Ms hubnut take care over there in wet Wales!
Thanks. It's been a rough couple of weeks.
I’d really like one of those!
Depends what the fault code is ? Could be the MAF sensor causing your issue ? The thing in your picture looked like the fuel rail pressure regulator ?
Try giving the engine a smoke test for leaks. You found one split pipe so you may find another.
Obviously they were designed to never ever break down! ;-)
Awful to work on but, a great result. Happy days.
That could be coolant sender or a vacuum leak .but nice job
AY UP MR HUBNUT
Mr Lose Weight!