@@PhilCheplus No, they're not, they're perfectly correct. He maybe should have explained it a little more clearly but the odds are _including_ the villain's bet and your 500 to make the call.
@@TonyEnglandUK Thanks Tony. I thought the pot odds were not including Vilain's bet. So, if i understand, in exemple 1 and 2 the pot was 1K, Vilain did bet 1k (total pot : 2k) and in exemple 3 and 4 Pot was 1k and Vilain dit bet 500 (total pot : 1500). That would make sense. Things were juste not obvious sorry. When I posted my comment, the goal was to warn those who are learning to evaluate Pot Odds vs Equity. As simple as that.
The rule of 4 and 2 (or the 2/4 rule, whatever you want to call it) was coined by Phil Gordon in his Little Green Book, which is an awesome little strategy book for NL Hold’em. What is the rule of 4 and 2? The rule of 4 and 2 is a quick shortcut for helping you to work out the percentage odds of completing a draw in Hold’em. To get your percentage odds. Multiply your outs by 2 when you are on the flop waiting for the turn. Multiply your outs by 2 when you are on the turn waiting for the river. Multiply your outs by 4 when you are on the flop waiting for the river (opponent is all-in). When you have multiplied your outs by either 4 or 2, you will get a percentage that you can compare with your pot odds to work out whether or not it’s worth calling with a drawing hand. The rule of 4 and 2 just works for percentages odds, not for ratio odds.
Phil Gordon's Green and Blue books are excellent introductions to poker theory. They are outdated for "today's game" but are still very helpful for getting started and playing in lower stake "local" games.
@@TimLukeAnderson he is saying it right and not wrong. We have 52 cards in a deck which means that every card accounts for approx 2% not exactly 2%. So every card counds for 2% which means that on the turn you expect one card to come . So you multiply the outs by 2%. and not 4. The notion that you should multiply by 4 on the turn is incorrect.
I'm struggling to do this quick in my head while playing online. I'm not mathematically inclined but I'm great at reading people even online. But I know to go to the next level I need to get the quick math part down too. Anyone else struggling with that? And if so, any advice? Thanks guys
Andre Botha There are only so many number of outs that you have to remember, if you aren't good at math then you could just memorize the percentage of each number of outs.
I find that the easiest way is to round things up to the nearest easy number. Example 960/260 would become 1000 over 2500 which is basically 25%... (really 27%) Also, just watch pot at your stake level without actually playing...calculate calculate calculate they come back quite often!
The answer is yes and no. No because you can save yourself from losing money Incase you don't hit your out, you may save money. But yes you could raise because mathematically you win in the long run if other players put more money in for you to win if your out hit.
So basically if you have a pair on the flop and two callers + its equitable to call. Heads up fold to a half pot size bet unless you have a straight and flush draw or better.
You got the rule of 4 and 2 backwards. Multiply your outs by 4 on the flop for your turn percentage. Then multiply your outs by 2 for your river percentage.
he explained it in a confusing way....but yes. you are right. for others, the video meant...x4 when you are able to see the turn and the river after a flop raise/ bet) with-two cards to come- and x2 when you only get to see the river (after a turn raise/bet) -with-one card to come
Jeremy Brown yes...but he means to see only the turn u multiply by 2. and by seeing the turn and river u multiply by 4. the same when u are in turn and u see only the river u multiply by 2. so actually u have to know that u are gonna call the turn bet also. now im getting confused also. hm that means if he goes allin on flop u multiply by 4 and what if he has still alot of money and bet on turn again???
Hi mate could you please explain 1500:500 odds i thought it was 20% pay 500 to make 2000 which equals 2000:500 4:1 which equals 20% im a little lost is this wrong? cheers
Franky P its 500 to win 1500 in the pot already. pot is 1000, your villain bets 500 and you have to csll 500 to win villains bet 500+1000 in the pot. so your call is 25% of the pot(2000) when you make the call.
Hey dude i like your videos! but i have a question. when you are deciding to call lets say a pot on the flop with flush draw, with two cards to come we have 32% chance of hitting and 33% pot odds, so we have that marginal break even call, but doesnt this mean that we assume to get a free river card(turn goes check check), because if we have to put more money in to the pot on the turn, lets say 1/2pot bet, we're not getting those 2 cards with break even pot odds? if we face a 1/2 bet on the turn, were gettin 25% pot odds with 16% equity to see the river, so we have paid 2 streets to see the river, and those streets combined we have gotten 29% pot odds, with 24% equity? the math here is: equity = 32 + 16 / 2 and Pot odds = 33 + 25 / 2 Am i correct? :)
My thinking of these kind of situations is that if you face a potter on the flop with flush draw, you really have to think if your opponent is likely to bet a potter on the turn aswell, since if you call that one also, you're making a big mistake in terms of pot odds(if you think you're getting paid extra after hitting flush on river, you can make the play sometimes assuming you have great implied odds and you can stack the guy with your flush and it doesnt scare him...) and if you can read your opponenst hand good, and think he has like overpair on flop, and you have overcard like an Ace to go with your flush draw, now you ofcourse have alot more equity, and your call is more profitable. but i usually fold my flush draws if im faced a potter on flop, if i think i dont have any extra outs and my opponent is likely to put a potter in on the turn aswell.
understanding ratios really helps in these situations. Lets pretend there's 100 in the pot villain bets 100(pot) there's now 200 in the pot our pot odds are 2-1. To convert a ratio into a percentage you add the two numbers together in this case its 2+1=3 now put that number(3) in a fraction as the denominator(1/3 or 33%) thats how much estimated equity(percent) you would need to justify calling that bet. 1-1=50% equity 1.5-1= 40% 2-1=33% 2.5-1=28% 3-1=25% 3.5-1=22% 4-1=20% etc. hope that helps
ok so i dont know if i posted that in the right spot but i just reread your question and it seems like the only advice i could honestly give you is that when chasing draws like the flush as you mentioned go ahead and see that turn card even if that means mucking your hand on the turn (me personally id prolly call turn bet as well then bluff river 20% of the time i miss). And so much as assuming to get a free card its plausible(if were talking tournament poker) ive played in a few and most people especially at cheaper buy-ins tend to play ABC poker. Raise pre, c bet , check check so it does happen yet your opponent could always bet turn and that would be up to you. The mathematical side of poker is to help us out when we're unsure of what to do. The math will only get you so far its important but dont be a numbers slave if you have a good feeling about a spot thats not a positive EV play then go for it if not fold. The worlds best players have not only the mathematical and analytical abilities but also intuition thats the part of the game you cant teach. Hope this time i helped good luck stay grinding.
Pot odds are basically the price to call divided by the pot plus your call. Example, if it costs 1 to call and the total pot is 4 then it is 1/4+1 ..... 1/5 is 20%
if you're on a straight or flush draw post flop and were the pre flop raiser you should lead out with a continuation bet of about 50-60% the pot. if you were the pre flop raiser and check call once you hit your straight or flush and lead out you've given your opponent valuable information on your hand range. If you c-bet the flop you are disguising your hand and could take down the pot on the flop. If your opponent was the pre flop raiser and he's in position you should check call the re evaluate the next street. Raising a draw typically is a bad move unless your in position on a really tight player on a connected board or a weaker opponent who likes the taste of windows (but beware those players don't fold when they should). other than that you're going to lose money raising draws. hope that helps bro
The rule of 4 and 2 (or the 2/4 rule, whatever you want to call it) was coined by Phil Gordon in his Little Green Book, which is an awesome little strategy book for NL Hold’em by the way. In this article I will explain what the rule of 2 and 4 is all about and show you how to use it during play. What is the rule of 4 and 2? The rule of 4 and 2 is a quick shortcut for helping you to work out the percentage odds of completing a draw in Hold’em. To get your percentage odds: Multiply your outs by 2 when you are on the flop waiting for the turn. Multiply your outs by 2 when you are on the turn waiting for the river. Multiply your outs by 4 when you are on the flop waiting for the river (opponent is all-in). When you have multiplied your outs by either 4 or 2, you will get a percentage that you can compare with your pot odds to work out whether or not it’s worth calling with a drawing hand. The rule of 4 and 2 just works for percentages odds, not for ratio odds
God thx ! finally someone who noticed that ! When I watched the video I though I was doing the math all wrong for 2 years !!! but fortunately, I wasn't.
You got the rule of 4 and 2 backwards. Multiply your outs by 4 on the flop for your turn percentage. Then multiply your outs by 2 for your river percentage.
let me explain i hope this helps you. Post flop action IF you intend to see the board through the river you multiply your outs by 4. if post flop you want to calculate your odds of hitting on the turn you multiply by 2. if after the turn you want to know your odds to hit on the river you multiply by 2. hope that clears it up for you
I can't thank you enough for this video, it's all finally starting to make sense.
All the pot odds are incorrect in this video
@@PhilCheplus No, they're not, they're perfectly correct. He maybe should have explained it a little more clearly but the odds are _including_ the villain's bet and your 500 to make the call.
@@TonyEnglandUK Thanks Tony. I thought the pot odds were not including Vilain's bet. So, if i understand, in exemple 1 and 2 the pot was 1K, Vilain did bet 1k (total pot : 2k) and in exemple 3 and 4 Pot was 1k and Vilain dit bet 500 (total pot : 1500). That would make sense.
Things were juste not obvious sorry.
When I posted my comment, the goal was to warn those who are learning to evaluate Pot Odds vs Equity. As simple as that.
The rule of 4 and 2 (or the 2/4 rule, whatever you want to call it) was coined by Phil Gordon in his Little Green Book, which is an awesome little strategy book for NL Hold’em.
What is the rule of 4 and 2?
The rule of 4 and 2 is a quick shortcut for helping you to work out the percentage odds of completing a draw in Hold’em. To get your percentage odds.
Multiply your outs by 2 when you are on the flop waiting for the turn.
Multiply your outs by 2 when you are on the turn waiting for the river.
Multiply your outs by 4 when you are on the flop waiting for the river (opponent is all-in).
When you have multiplied your outs by either 4 or 2, you will get a percentage that you can compare with your pot odds to work out whether or not it’s worth calling with a drawing hand.
The rule of 4 and 2 just works for percentages odds, not for ratio odds.
Phil Gordon's Green and Blue books are excellent introductions to poker theory. They are outdated for "today's game" but are still very helpful for getting started and playing in lower stake "local" games.
Thank you for making this simple, practical, and fast
a lot of people are wondering about pot odds calculation.
pot odds=to call/(pot+to call)
correct me if I'm wrong
4x the odds on the flop and 2x the odds on the turn 6 outs times 4 = 24% on the flop 6x2 = 12% on the turn
I think you are saying it incorrectly.. post flop, you multiply by 4 ( you have 2 more cards to come) post turn by 2 ( you have 1 card to come).
He is
@@TimLukeAnderson he is saying it right and not wrong. We have 52 cards in a deck which means that every card accounts for approx 2% not exactly 2%. So every card counds for 2% which means that on the turn you expect one card to come . So you multiply the outs by 2%. and not 4. The notion that you should multiply by 4 on the turn is incorrect.
Thank you for this practice bro!
I'm struggling to do this quick in my head while playing online.
I'm not mathematically inclined but I'm great at reading people even online.
But I know to go to the next level I need to get the quick math part down too.
Anyone else struggling with that? And if so, any advice?
Thanks guys
Andre Botha There are only so many number of outs that you have to remember, if you aren't good at math then you could just memorize the percentage of each number of outs.
I find that the easiest way is to round things up to the nearest easy number. Example 960/260 would become 1000 over 2500 which is basically 25%... (really 27%)
Also, just watch pot at your stake level without actually playing...calculate calculate calculate they come back quite often!
Why don't you use the calculator on laptop.
Thank you! So if you have extra equity like in example 4 with 15 outs, should you then raise due to all the equity?
The answer is yes and no. No because you can save yourself from losing money Incase you don't hit your out, you may save money. But yes you could raise because mathematically you win in the long run if other players put more money in for you to win if your out hit.
Thank you Ty Tarrant *bow emoji
So basically if you have a pair on the flop and two callers + its equitable to call. Heads up fold to a half pot size bet unless you have a straight and flush draw or better.
In a way, but the equity of your hand is always diminished in a multi-way pot.
I read once about the rule of four and two that you multıply by four durıng the flop, and 2 on the turn.
Great job
You got the rule of 4 and 2 backwards. Multiply your outs by 4 on the flop for your turn percentage. Then multiply your outs by 2 for your river percentage.
he explained it in a confusing way....but yes. you are right.
for others, the video meant...x4 when you are able to see the turn and the river after a flop raise/ bet)
with-two cards to come-
and x2 when you only get to see the river (after a turn raise/bet)
-with-one card to come
Jeremy Brown yes...but he means to see only the turn u multiply by 2. and by seeing the turn and river u multiply by 4. the same when u are in turn and u see only the river u multiply by 2. so actually u have to know that u are gonna call the turn bet also. now im getting confused also. hm that means if he goes allin on flop u multiply by 4 and what if he has still alot of money and bet on turn again???
now implied odds plays here a big role then on later streets.
Yes you are right , I feel sorry for those that didn't know it they might be doing all in on the turn right now thanks to this nigga LOL
Hi mate could you please explain 1500:500 odds i thought it was 20% pay 500 to make 2000 which equals 2000:500 4:1 which equals 20% im a little lost is this wrong?
cheers
it's 25% not 20% how many quarters go into a dollar man?
How many pennies is a quarter? The answer is 4 and 25.......... 4/1 25%
Franky P its 500 to win 1500 in the pot already. pot is 1000, your villain bets 500 and you have to csll 500 to win villains bet 500+1000 in the pot. so your call is 25% of the pot(2000) when you make the call.
People who use the term "mate" aren't usually American.
Is the number below "Call" the call of your opponent or is it already in the pot so it would be your own call
Your amount to call
so with 12 outs its ok to go all in on flop and it will still be profitable?
I remember him saying that at larger differences between equity % and pot odds, the law of 2 and 4 doesn't hold much value
Very good proctice
Hi, can i ask why does 6 outs equal to roughly 12%/24% instead of 12%/13% (12% + 12%x12% to get 13%) , to hit at least 1 of the cards ?
Hey dude i like your videos! but i have a question. when you are deciding to call lets say a pot on the flop with flush draw, with two cards to come we have 32% chance of hitting and 33% pot odds, so we have that marginal break even call, but doesnt this mean that we assume to get a free river card(turn goes check check), because if we have to put more money in to the pot on the turn, lets say 1/2pot bet, we're not getting those 2 cards with break even pot odds?
if we face a 1/2 bet on the turn, were gettin 25% pot odds with 16% equity to see the river, so we have paid 2 streets to see the river, and those streets combined we have gotten 29% pot odds, with 24% equity?
the math here is: equity = 32 + 16 / 2 and Pot odds = 33 + 25 / 2
Am i correct? :)
My thinking of these kind of situations is that if you face a potter on the flop with flush draw, you really have to think if your opponent is likely to bet a potter on the turn aswell, since if you call that one also, you're making a big mistake in terms of pot odds(if you think you're getting paid extra after hitting flush on river, you can make the play sometimes assuming you have great implied odds and you can stack the guy with your flush and it doesnt scare him...) and if you can read your opponenst hand good, and think he has like overpair on flop, and you have overcard like an Ace to go with your flush draw, now you ofcourse have alot more equity, and your call is more profitable. but i usually fold my flush draws if im faced a potter on flop, if i think i dont have any extra outs and my opponent is likely to put a potter in on the turn aswell.
understanding ratios really helps in these situations.
Lets pretend there's 100 in the pot villain bets 100(pot) there's now 200 in the pot our pot odds are 2-1. To convert a ratio into a percentage you add the two numbers together in this case its 2+1=3 now put that number(3) in a fraction as the denominator(1/3 or 33%) thats how much estimated equity(percent) you would need to justify calling that bet.
1-1=50% equity
1.5-1= 40%
2-1=33%
2.5-1=28%
3-1=25%
3.5-1=22%
4-1=20%
etc. hope that helps
Jeremy Brown yes i know how to convert ratios to percentages.. thanks for answering but it didnt really answer my question 😄
ok so i dont know if i posted that in the right spot but i just reread your question and it seems like the only advice i could honestly give you is that when chasing draws like the flush as you mentioned go ahead and see that turn card even if that means mucking your hand on the turn (me personally id prolly call turn bet as well then bluff river 20% of the time i miss). And so much as assuming to get a free card its plausible(if were talking tournament poker) ive played in a few and most people especially at cheaper buy-ins tend to play ABC poker. Raise pre, c bet , check check so it does happen yet your opponent could always bet turn and that would be up to you. The mathematical side of poker is to help us out when we're unsure of what to do. The math will only get you so far its important but dont be a numbers slave if you have a good feeling about a spot thats not a positive EV play then go for it if not fold. The worlds best players have not only the mathematical and analytical abilities but also intuition thats the part of the game you cant teach. Hope this time i helped good luck stay grinding.
oh and also look at your pot odds and percentages on a street to street basis dont conbine them and average
He got the percentage around the wrong way
Can someone explain how he got the 33% in the pot odds section and the 25% in the pot odds section? I apologize I’m new to this and trying to learn
Look at the pot and call sizes.
Pot odds are basically the price to call divided by the pot plus your call. Example, if it costs 1 to call and the total pot is 4 then it is 1/4+1 ..... 1/5 is 20%
The rule is 4&2. Not 2&4. Outs x 4 on turn. Outs x 2 on river.
Yes, I was scrolling to see if someone else got this. His other videos are spot on, but this one is a misnomer all the way. Good call, Aaron!
What numbers is he reading
When do you raise than?
if you're on a straight or flush draw post flop and were the pre flop raiser you should lead out with a continuation bet of about 50-60% the pot. if you were the pre flop raiser and check call once you hit your straight or flush and lead out you've given your opponent valuable information on your hand range. If you c-bet the flop you are disguising your hand and could take down the pot on the flop. If your opponent was the pre flop raiser and he's in position you should check call the re evaluate the next street. Raising a draw typically is a bad move unless your in position on a really tight player on a connected board or a weaker opponent who likes the taste of windows (but beware those players don't fold when they should). other than that you're going to lose money raising draws. hope that helps bro
I've always been told; x4 turn, x2 river...?
The rule of 4 and 2 (or the 2/4 rule, whatever you want to call it) was coined by Phil Gordon in his Little Green Book, which is an awesome little strategy book for NL Hold’em by the way.
In this article I will explain what the rule of 2 and 4 is all about and show you how to use it during play.
What is the rule of 4 and 2?
The rule of 4 and 2 is a quick shortcut for helping you to work out the percentage odds of completing a draw in Hold’em. To get your percentage odds:
Multiply your outs by 2 when you are on the flop waiting for the turn.
Multiply your outs by 2 when you are on the turn waiting for the river.
Multiply your outs by 4 when you are on the flop waiting for the river (opponent is all-in).
When you have multiplied your outs by either 4 or 2, you will get a percentage that you can compare with your pot odds to work out whether or not it’s worth calling with a drawing hand.
The rule of 4 and 2 just works for percentages odds, not for ratio odds
I thought if the pot odds are greater than the equity than you call?
That only goes for the ratio method.
3/1 îs not 33% îs 25%,is a diference
100 divided by 3 is 33
Jake Sprunger you’re dividing by 4, not 3
All the pot odds are incorrect in this video. They should be 3:1 = 25% and 4:1 = 20% respectively.
God thx ! finally someone who noticed that ! When I watched the video I though I was doing the math all wrong for 2 years !!! but fortunately, I wasn't.
Surely the villain must of bet for you to call
You got the rule of 4 and 2 backwards. Multiply your outs by 4 on the flop for your turn percentage. Then multiply your outs by 2 for your river percentage.
let me explain i hope this helps you. Post flop action IF you intend to see the board through the river you multiply your outs by 4. if post flop you want to calculate your odds of hitting on the turn you multiply by 2. if after the turn you want to know your odds to hit on the river you multiply by 2. hope that clears it up for you
MrMaacin05 thanks. That makes much more sense.