Solving The Mystery of Ancient Greece’s Greatest Feat of Acoustic Engineering
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2025
- Discover the secrets behind the Theatre of Epidaurus' legendary acoustics! This ancient Greek marvel combines beauty, history, and advanced engineering that still baffles experts today. Dive into the mystery now!
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I guess the suicide hot line fire you because you bored every phone caller enough to delete themselves. So now you are trying to bore everyone on RUclips!!
ive been twice to epidauros i saw hellen mirren playing mydia
MY ANCESTORS DID NOT WORSHIP GODS IGNORANR BARBARIAN.EVEYTHING IN GREEK LITERATURE IS SYMBOLIC .THE GREEKS TOUGHT HUMANITY HOW TO THINK NOT WHAT TO THINK READ BEFORE YOU TALK BARBARIAN
I am greek and I have been to epidaurus. The acoustic is unique. The leading actor didn't even use a speaker. I didn't miss a single word. I might add that it was a sold out that night. More than 12k people attending.
That's awesome
No one asked bro!
Jealousy????? 😂😂😂😂😂@@jeffdroog
@Αλκιβίη No...I was clearly very uninterested in his personal experiencesm
@jeffdroog I mean yeah no one asked but it wasn't irrelevant with the video. I just shared my personal experience. It seems that some people found that interesting.
I've been there and it was TRULY stunning. You almost can't believe it. It is truly a world treasure.
I know Simon hates doing Greco-Roman content but I'm thrilled they've covered Epidauros. It's really amazing.
Its almost as if,no one asked your opinion lol
@jeffdroog It's almost as if I know that engagement like commenting and watch time contribute to the income of you-tubers.
@leesiemoo They really don't though lol It's almost as if,you think you're worth something lol You are a speck among billions of other specks lol
@jeffdroog I am sorry that people in your life hurt you and made you feel unloved. No one deserves that. But there are more productive outlets than trolling randos online. I hope you find healing and purpose.
Bro why you do this??
An excellent presentation. Thank you very much! One remark: Greeks, British, Americans and others, we often make a mistake in calling these ancient venues “amphitheaters”. I’ll explain my self. Theater (or theatro in greek) comes from the greek verb theomai (to view, to see, to watch). Amphi in greek means “both sides”. We use the word amphi in other English words as well. We say amphibious (bious or bios in greek means life, hence the word biology). So Amphibious is the one that lives in both sides (meaning water and land). Having said that, let’s go to the era of the invention of theater and of its architecture. This happens in Athens during the 5th century BC(around 500-400bc). Athenian architects during the next century (400-300 BC) perfected the form and shape of the greek theater. What is a greek theater? Certainly NOT an amphitheater. A greek theater is a stage, an orchestra pit and a semicircular area of seats. Half a millennia later, when the greek world was now giving its torch to Rome, roman or greek architects living in the rising and powerful new empire, took the HALF circle of seats that we see in greek theaters and they added another half circle of seats from the other side. These conjoined two greek theaters created a new circular venue where people could watch a spectacle from BOTH sides (as we said amphi in greek means both sides). So a THEATER IS SEMICIRCULAR and an AMPHITHEATER IS A FULL CIRCLE. Colosseo in Rome is an amphitheater. The monument in your fantastic video predates the Colosseo for about 4 centuries and it is a Theater. In a theater greek playwrights aimed in teaching, educating, healing the minds and souls of the spectators. As you say in your presentation violence was not allowed. Even if a king, for example, was murdered let’s say in the frame of a theatrical play (a tragedy), the murder would allegedly happen behind the stage and then a actor/messenger would come out to declare: THE KING IS DEAD. No violence was allowed. And this is the reason that I urge us all NOT to call the ancient greek theaters, amphitheaters. In a roman amphitheater spectators weren’t educated. They would clap their hands enthusiastically while people were REALLY killed in front of the audience. People and animals were tortured in the most barbaric ways. Amphitheaters are places of gore and of instinctive, brutal responses. Theaters on the other hand were about refinement, elegance, intellect and timeliness meanings.
I’ve performed in a modern, concrete, outdoor, 300 seat amphitheater, both as an actor, and as a singer. I sat in the audience of that same amphitheater, listening to a musical concert of choir, soloists, and orchestra. There’s something special about the shape that makes it unique from an indoor, standard proscenium-arched stage. The audience feedback is better.
Loved the video and it couldn't have come at a better time as I'm going to Greece and will be visiting Epidaurus in just 2 weeks 😁I know Simon's not a fan of the Greco-Roman content but I might just have to go back through his videos again for a little pre trip revision 😅
Theaters were never designed for a wisper to be heard, but for a speaker projecting their voice to be heard all the way to the back. The crowd isn't necessarily a bad thing, either. I worked on a small play ones is a relatively small theater with no special accoustics (just a room that looked more like a movie theater). The actors didn't use mics and we were a bit worried about people sitting in the back not hearing them properly. But during the public performance, the sound was much more clear in the back then during the rehearsals.
The conical shape is a key factor. And, anything that can help with the resonance improves the quality.
The greeks probably noticed which setups worked and which didn't and when they put great resources into huge projects, they simply scaled up the best setups.
We may be talking about a "stage whisper".
Cool! No one asked,but cool I guess.
@nevillehoward8736 but no one has ever built a theater with whispering in mind. I highly doubt anyone in ancient Greece wanted to not be able to whisper privately on stage.
So basically, the experiments that Simon is talking about make a lot of sense. I'm someone who has a good understanding of accoustics and stage work, so for me saying something like you can hear a whisper across the whole theater without any amplification is clearly an exaggeration. There is just not enough energy in a whisper to cover the whole volume where a spectator's ears might be at.
@tonymouannes Maybe. But have you ever experienced a parabolic iirc space where a normal speaking voice can be heard at a large distance, much further than it could normally be heard? That isn't an entire theatre, granted.
@nevillehoward8736 I've actually been to places like that, including a couple of experimental ones, made purely for the accustics. Encient theatre style places have the added benefit of projecting the sounds produced on the stage and not the sounds of the spectators. Old stone buildings often have a strong reverberation that, depending on its specific geometry, might also have a good amplifiying effect.
But, while hearing the drop of a needle is usually projected pretty well, a whisper doesn't projects well, you need to at least speak normally. And you still need to project your voice, if you want to be heard all the way in the back. Voice projecting isn't only about speaking louder, but also about reducing the frequency of the sound, and lower frequencies travel better.
Alien Ice Road Truckers does always seem to be the culprit
I was delighted to hear you reference the vaunted and credible History Channel 😅
The well deserved sarcasm did not go unnoticed.
Cool! Its as if no one asked.
@@jeffdroog This is what you do all day? You write messages to everyone in RUclips that "no one asked". How pathetic and miserable is that?!
How I see it:
A) they actually did have knowledge of acoustics and those documents were simply destroyed at some point in the past 2500 years, like how we lost entire vastly popular plays, which we only know of due to people mentioning them,
B) they didn't understand acoustics but trial and error is a great teacher,
C) it was "secret knowledge" passed from master to apprentice, which we know has been commonly done all the way to this day,
D) it was totally by accident that one of the best preserved amphitheaters of Ancient Greece also happens to be perfectly built with the perfect material and perfect shape and perfectly spaced seating for near-perfect acoustics.
I would pick the alien ice road truckers over D.
This was a great episode, lots of good research and information presented concisely. Thanks!
Thanks. I really like Classical Greek theatre.
I'm Greek and a sound engineer. The truth is always somewhere in the middle. First of all, everybody understands that the acoustics of a theatre full of people is different in comparison to an empty one. Both in sound pressure (lets say "volume") and frequencies ("pitch"). Still, the answer lies in the word "theatron" (theater).To make a long story short, the word "thea" in Greek means literally "to observe and/or admire something or someone from a distance" and "theatron" is the structure that is made to do exactly that. So, the shape of this structure made to facilitate as much people as possible, comes naturally. We know from physics that light acts as a wave and what else is a wave? Sound. So, there is your happy accident. 😉
Democracy was invented on the theatric scenes. Theater, requires dialogue, someone speaking and another one replying. That, the dialogue, is the essence of democracy. Without the theater, there would not be democracy.
heeey... hi from greece.. nice take .. nice video.. thank youuuuu
A church I used to attend was constructed so that anyone speaking at the center between the Gospel and Epistle lecterns could be heard throughout without amplification. The choir didn't need microphones either.
Cool! Its almost as if we have somehow advanced in last 1600 years lol
Great video and subject. And thanks for not using background music.
How about the whispering gallery in St. Paul’s cathedral?
We love you Dr.Simon
Omg you are showing off your greek language skills, which are amazing! 😳😊
I’m not a scientist, nor an audiologist. I’m a simply building contractor and lover of building design.
I contend that the great acoustic properties of that open air theater has more to do with its location and elevation as much as the shape and materials used to build it.
I want to know how they made Greek fire.
(Purely for academic reasons.)
He covered that somewhere…. I think….
The problem was that they could only guess. There are no records or samples to analyze.@darlenefraser3022
@@darlenefraser3022 I think he did in a collection of things from the ancient world that were lost
(For anyone not familiar, we don't know what it was. We can make things that do what is described, but we don't know what they did)
@@BaronVonQuiply I think that you’re totally right. It wasn’t a stand alone video.
Here we are then: ruclips.net/video/3j1N-Y0pWxE/видео.html
Modern western music and entertainment has a direct link to ancient theatres and amphitheaters like Epidaurus in that the art form of opera was invented in Renaissance Florence as an accidental outcome of the attempt to revive the ancient Greek plays -the group of humanists, one of whom was the father of the great scientist Galileo mistakenly believed that the ancient Greek plays were sung right through because of the existence of a chorus in these plays. So opera was invented, originally for an elite group but soon, when it spread to places like Venice became a popular art form.(there were 20 public opera houses in Venice alone in the 18th century.) This art form had a colossal influence on music in general and on theatre design. A spin off from opera was of course the musical in modern times and when you think of it movies are a form of opera with a musical soundtrack to accompany the action.
Im Greek, have attended 2 or 3 plays at Epidaurus. Although it was quite a few years back and i was quite young, i cant recall if the acoustics seemed remarkable or not to me. The thing that i recall struck me the most while attending was the absolute silence by the audience. Even by theater audience standars (as compaired to music shows/cinemas/etc) the audience was remarkably silent and concentrated on the actors and the play. Maybe due to reverence to the history of the theater itself maybe? So i would say that the quality of sound during a play there, is more a product of the absence of bad audience decorum than anything else.
Just tossing this out there. One aspect of constructing recording studios is addressing standing waves, where the geometry of the room causes some frequencies to resonate while other frequencies get cancelled out. Obviously this is bad if you're trying to perceive recordings accurately, as the room can make some frequencies seem louder than others.
It could be that some theaters are more prone to resonate with the frequencies prominent in the human voice. This obviously wouldn't be a universal phenomenon and work for pin drops or match strikes.
How I wish Twice could perform there 😊😊😊❤
That was a great bit of engineering whoever made it. Some on other sites suggest that they used information from another earlier source.
Fascinating.
When you build buildings thousands of years using stone you will find out the properties eventually.
Fascinating 😎
All good... but where were the restrooms and snack stands?
After the play how long did it take to get out of the parking lot?
Don't know what kind of research these people did but I've been there with some friends and we where all able to hear a coin drop on the stage from the top rows.
Ditto. But the researchers used recordings of coins dropping. Recordings do not function the same as actual sounds in the human ear. Also using frequency recordings is pointless because human voices are resonant and it is physically impossible to voice sounds at a single frequency. It's why the "voice" function on electric keyboards sounds nothing like actual singing. It's one of those sometimes-academics-need-to-speak-with-workers moments. If they'd collaborated with musicians/singers and music producers they likely would have developed different tests.
@@leesiemoo Kinda makes you wonder. How are they able to conclude anything when their testing doesn't actually reflect reality.
Everyone that's been there will confirm the coin drop or the I can hear people talking quietly experiments.
It's not like analogue vs digital, vinyl vs mp3, you can hear more details on the analogue record. Digital is just a "simulation"
It works, I’ve been there many times. I was in the last row and my wife dropped a coin, I heard it!
thankx
14:38 I doubt they knew the effect the specifics of the construction would have had on the acoustics. It was probably just a happy accident fueled by the mathematics of the layout on the existing landscape and the materials used.
the theatre has an analog hi-pass filter built in, impressive
I know this may sound petty, but the quotes properly refer to this as a theatre, and it is indeed a theatre, you call it an amphitheatre, which is two theatres put together and hence circular. Amphitheatres/arenas were not usually used for drama. This structure, a theatre, was used mostly for oration.
Thanks.
Now I am curious What were the musical instruments used in Antiquity for orchestra or for other occasions what kind of music was it? Did they use some kind of musical scores? What about other Civs in the Past?
Orchestra in ancient Greek means dancing area. So in the theatres they were performance spaces for the actors/chorus. Other than that, the main instruments referred to in art and literature were various stringed harp-like instruments and flutes. Scholars still debate about how the notation works and how the music likely sounded. So, you're right, it's super interesting and Simon should do a video on it.
Im sure Simon would be happy to do a show about the sponges made available the patrons of the roman public toilets. Im sure that would be accompanied with some amazing sounds as well...like...'who the hell has been eating the pine needles!'. .
At Union Terminal in Cincinnati, Ohio there are two water fountains on either side of the main entrance. You can stand at one and speak in a normal tone, and the person standing at the other water fountain on the other side of the building can hear you perfectly.
Me, an audio engineer: “Hell yeah”
There's a Greek moto that suits: 'What a fox can't reach, she pulls it down.' The fact is that you can listing any conversation in normal tone anywhere on the theater. And that is verified by anyone who has visited EpidaVrus (and not Epidaurus nor Epidaouourous) through the ages. I would suggest you visit the place, rather than speculating and trying to prove the Earth is flat.
9:09 if you want to skip to the main event
Hi Simon,
Please do a video on the Ancient Greek drinking contest that caused the deaths of multiple people including the winner that was given a prize of more wine. I need answers pls. It seems lesser known if it is indeed true and I can’t find a lot of info about it.
Wouldn't a crowd affect the acoustics? The crowd isn't made of stone steps.
Im never this early to these
I remember being taken as a child to St Paul's Cathedral and told to whisper because it would project across the chapel. (Was it the "Whispering Gallery?" I don't remember if I heard long distance whispering.
I know you don't really care but theater and amphitheater can not be used interchangeably. This is a theater, open on the one side, the colloseum in Rome is an amphitheater, closed all around
I bet you rule at trivial pursuit! I seem to know weird facts like this too.
I just made the same comment. It’s driving me crazy. Simple definition and all of the quotes he uses call at a theatre. Like what up Simon?
She ampin on my theatre till I epidaurus
You’re right! No one cares
@@ryanf1425- Many of us do care about the nuances between different definitions. Its why we waste so much time listening to educational / simi-educational content.
Nice... after so long i found something nice
Epidavros!!
Luck, trial and error and experience FTW!!!
14,000 bodies sitting on all that limestone will surely affect the acoustics.
Still do...
Faster faster faster !!! Please 😅
when they made this back then they wanted audience to see centre stagw and there was no noise and pollution
I would assume the answer is aliens, but I guess I’m wrong.
Great content we should collaborate!!!
(If you have a degree in Theatre and/or Theatre History, brace yourself-it’s interesting but not totally accurate, and pronunciation is Whistlerized. 😅)
They got their Diddy on
These are theatres. Amphitheatre is the colosseum = 2 times the semicircle.
Yeah ancient Greeks got lucky with that one too ... and in the end it isn't all that great anyway ... I hope you guys get the chance to visit the theater its quite an experience . The uniqueness of the acoustics of that theater probably has to do primarily with its geometry . The angle that the amphitheaters seats are laid combined with the height of the seats works in a similar way as the lenses of a lighthouse amplify, concentrate and direct the light but as deflectors instead of lenses . I think ancient Greeks did not achieve that result by accident but probably experimented with the angles and heights and despite the fact that the didn't understand sound waves like we do today they probably understood a lot more about sound than we think they did .
Simon, you a bit sick? Or did your 16 channels finally wear out your voice? 😄
Awwww, the space aliens deliberately made it ordinary to hide their involvement Yes, that's it ! Of course it is !!
Aliens. Yep, it's gotta be them aliens.
But does it have IMAX 3D tho?
Brought to you in THX!
😂 lol I've always wondered that very same thing
How about Dolby Atmos technology?
High quality stereophonic VHS
If you eat enough 🍄
arguably the most unesco heritage site?
"MYKONOOOOOOOOS"
via *Ice road truckers* ! LOL !!
They obviously understood accused of engineering
It's a tuned space, built by people who knew how to use their ears
On acoustics I think they just got lucky.
Simon can't talk about an ancient greek orchestra and not give us a video about it...
The Greek language is the only language in the world that is created from music and mathematics.
Glory to Greeks
C.E ? what is this? B.C or A.D?
"Common Era". AD.
@@SolarDeathRay ahhh, the communists trying to destroy the religious aspect of history. As always. I'll stick to BC AD
C.E. = "Common Era"
B.C.E. = "Before Common Era"
A.D. and B.C. hasn't been used for a couple decades now. One religion shouldn't be favored and none should have any place in modern scientific vernacular.
Heathens are trying to make this a thing
We are pagans!!!
I designed that.
See Pula amphitheater...
I.E. not a theatre.
@Neptunestef it's a theater, and still used as one!
This amphitheater Must host epic concerts. Yanni. Tangerine Dream. Pink Floyd. Grateful Dead.. Slipknot. Queen. Because of course they do.
(Don't be afraid. I am benign despite being insane.)
Dead never played there
Simon, you make us take you and your content far less seriously when you jump on the virtue signaling woke band wagon and use the pointless "CE/BCE." Use of these instead of the normal "BC/AD" marks the utterer as having place a dunce cap on their own head.
That has nothing to do with woke. You're the one jumping on a bandwagon. The one of seeing everything you don't agree with as woke. Naming something after someone most people in the world don't believe in seems more woke. Why not just call it what you want to call it and not try to force your opinion on others, like the woke mob tries to do.
182nd
Aye
Yawn. Red Rocks is where it's at!
Was Epidaurus used for skin shows? 😂
too many professors spoil the soup.
clearly a silly video trying to sell factuality to google and facebook pilgrimers
and of course highly likely that...this
and highly likely that.. ..that.
come on boldie .
have you been there? have u struck a match?
highly.. etc etc. etc.
next time stick to Stonehenge and do not forget rget to invite your professors to add credit to your narative nonsense.
rest ny case
the question is how come the natives on the other side of the world (america or ex-Atlantis) knew exactly the same details
Pausanias - depictions of Hellas, there's no mention of Greece! The book is not called Depictions of Greece because Greece didn't exist until the early 1800's AD.....
You can't interchange Hellas and Greece freely, and Pausanias was born in ancient Lydia, Lydia in ancient times was a provincial kingdom of Macedonia. This means that Pausanias was Macedonian and not greek as implied....
It is SO hard to listen to that voice.
Ancient Greece! Really?
Are we calling the 1800's AD ancient now?
I don't understand what it is with people! Greece is not ancient! It was invented in the early 1800's AD.....
Just because there was Greeks in ancient times, doesn't mean that they actually had a country! They didn't!
That's why you won't find the location of the Greeks on any maps prior to the 1800's AD.... You will see Athens and Sparta and other places that you might think are greek, but they are not! The maps state Macedonia.... And Macedonia is not Greek! Otherwise it would say Greek instead of Macedonia!
The Greeks were a minority within the Macedonian empire, in and amongst the Macedonians like gypsies! They have been away from their own motherland for so long that they don't remember where it was! The original word for Greek came from the Macedonians who called them Grejci pronounced Greytsi meaning foreigners.... Ever heard the expression of "it's all Greek to me!", yeah it's all all foreign!
Greek history is all fake!
As the Greeks and others slowly took Macedonia apart to form fake countries like Greece, Bulgaria Albania and Serbia, thinking that it was safe to assume Macedonian history for themselves when suddenly Jugoslavia was taken apart and the Macedonians were set free.... The fight to retain Macedonian history for the Greeks began... Because without it, people will see that they have been lied to historically about Greece even though a quick check will reveal that Greece was invented in the early 1800's AD..... Hardly ancient by any stretch of the imagination.....
Before Europe was known as Europe, it was known as Macedonia! Birthplace of the white man! Actual pure Greeks are dark! Sub Saharan Ethiopia DNA....
There are lots of stories about Greeks doing this and that during ancient times but the fact is that they were a minority throughout the Macedonian empire, and the Roman Empire and the Ottoman Empire! A minority can't do diddly squat! The ancient empire at that point in time was Macedonia and all those supposed greek stories were all Macedonian....
Whenever someone talks about ancient times, the Romans always get a mention, even though the Macedonian empire was huge and conquered the known world like no one else before, it never gets a mention unless it's specifically about Alexander The Great!
The Ampitheatre was a Macedonian invention, the credit for the Ampitheatre was given to the Romans who came and went in such a short time that it's literally impossible that the Romans did everything that is claimed they did!
A quick google about where the Romans came from will net you an answer of, no one knows! They just appeared!
What is not known well is that the Romans were known to the Macedonians! They were there all along, the Macedonians called it the provenance of RIM... It was a kingdom provenance of Macedonia just like the Etruscans who were ultimately absorbed into the Roman Empire as it grew while the ruling kingdom of Macedonia grew weaker! Hence the reason why there are ruins of castles everywhere throughout Europe today!
Getting to rule Macedonia during ancient times is the same thing as ruling Europe today! Then it was kingdoms and today it's countries! The words have changed but the game remains the same!
It's 2025 and people still can't get it right! Ancient Greece is an illusion, it never existed! It's like Israel, it claims to be ancient but every ancient map you look at all you find is Palestine! Egypt! Macedonia! No Israel, no Greece! Both originate from the same location more than 2000 years BCE! From Sub Saharan Ethiopia! Both are Greek to the lands that they currently occupy. Both believe that they have been there since time immemorial and both have committed unspeakable horrors to the indigenous peoples of the lands that they occupy, the only difference between the two is that the Greeks called it a civil war and everyone else looked the other way and literally got away with it! Lest we forget! Never! Those who forget history seldom repeat it! Never shall I ever!
Доброе what ever you say Peter Milanovski 😂😂😂😂😂
Cool, but not remarkable. The “technology” is rather simple. If I were to design an amphitheater I’d start with practical experiments that concentrated with actors’ voices
It is remarkable in that it has better acoustics than pretty much all the other Greek/Roman theatres. I've visited and performed in many theatres (ancient and modern) including Epidauros - it is amazing.