Dragon Ball Super Universe Survival Special | Anime FMK
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- Опубликовано: 3 апр 2018
- Dragon Ball Super has ended! With the Tournament of Power all wrapped up, Scott "KaiserNeko" Frerichs, Grant "MasterWGS" Smith, and Alejandro "KaggyFilms" Saab talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly!
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What were some of your favourite/worst moments of Dragon Ball Super?
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Favorite - 118, Naoki Tate, good symbolic direction, made the audience feel sad from characters they just hated five seconds ago, Father-Son Unision Kamehameha with Limit Break X Survior over it, “Say Something”
Worst 119 & 106 - Devoid of logic, ignoring basic characteristics of these warriors, weightless eliminations, and a failed attempt at handling tactical approaches in the midst of a (mainly) power reliant royale
Nice april fools joke, a bit late, but I guess that's ok. Now where's the new FMK ep?
Well here is the thing, Z was the awesome action series because the editor Kazuhiko Torishima kept Akira Toriyama in check. Akira can create awesome things, but if he is not kept focus he starts getting goofy and that's what we saw with DBZ super.
That one episode (I think the one before SSB Evolved) where Vegeta reads Jiren's movements and lands that awesome punch. One of my favorites from Super.
Aside from that, Vegetto, the Father-Son Galick Gun, the U7 Spirit Bomb, the first appearance of Ultra Instinct -Sign-, most of the in-between arc slice-of-life episodes, and of course, the last episode. All super good.
In the episode with the assassins after Frieza I loved the scene of Goku renacting his fight with Grandpa Gohan from dragon ball
"That was not explored very well"....... the best summary of DBS
Every series post Z in a nutshell
Kaiser: Don't fucking swear on this podcast it's PG 13.
Grant: I'm sorry it's Anime FuckMK.
Had me in stitches right from the start.
What does FMK stand for?
Fuck Marry Kill
Oh! Thanks!
As someone who has trained martial arts significantly and had to take a long period of time off from an injury in which I didn't train, at all...Gohan going from capable fighter with awesome abilities to a shadow of his former self hits very close to home. It truly is 100% reasonable and within the realm of reality.
The issue with Gohan is that he is the smart character but is continuously written dumb. After what happen with Buu he should of at least tried to maintain his strength after how he saw how weak he got in the beginning of Buu and the issues it caused. Then when Beerus shows up and beats everyone, that should of shown him he has to push further because he can't rely on his dad to always win. Then after that you have the whole Frieza thing the guys brought up. These are literal existential crisis, You can't write him as the smart character and then have him repeatedly act stupid.
In The Zone my problem is the flip flopping justmdecide smarts or fighting stop going back and forth
See... It makes sense in reality, but makes no sense in the universe that's been established. Gohan without any significant training stayed mostly in shape after the post-cell time skip. But after the (at most) year after the Beerus arc, the man went from decent to a complete stick. I'm still struggling to see how that makes sense in proportion to the other characters and the rest of the franchise.
@@PokemonleafmonLate reply, but that's easy to understand. Gohan was still a teenager who was travelling and staying active. Now he's married and almost a shut-in.
Post cell he knows he's responsible for the safety of the earth and at least trying a bit here and there. Post buu there's nothing, Goku and Vegeta are already there.
I was always like "oh people are nitpicky about toei's choices", but then I was told "imagine if MADHOUSE or some other good studio got their hands on this. And i was like "...shit, you're right"
I hate that vegeta also uses final flash so much. Kinda kills the ability
Woopywomp I know, right? It's supposed to be his ultimate attack. Why not have him use his version of the kamehameha, the Galick Gun or even the Big Bang attack. It's almost as if the writers didn't read the manga or watch all of Z.
He did use the Galick Gun once or twice. I can see the argument that the use of Final Flash is to show progression. Once upon a time, the Kamehameha was the best Goku had. Now, I'm pretty sure they're contractually obligated to show it once every 3 episodes at a minimum. Vegeta has gone through the character growth of the Buu arc, and literally becoming a God, since he got the Final Flash. It seems they view his explosion as his new ultimate.
Cyrus Ambrose *what about the big bang attack? Goku used the destructo disk, the solar flare, instant transmission. Vegeta spammed final flash. hooray*
Ah, remember back when fans kept complaining that Vegeta never use the his attacks again... but yeah he really should be spammimg the big bang galick gun instead of the final flash
I personally loved the final fight between U6 & U7, with Piccolo becoming overwhelmed upon realizing that the U6 Namekians had fused with hundreds (if not thousands even) of other Nameks, only to be saved by Gohan and have a vision of Kami and Nail pointing toward him, overcoming his overwhelmed state and then finishing the fight in tandem with Gohan. It was a great character moment and a great “father/son” moment imo.
Vegeta and Frieza both snicker as Kale/broly is palm face dragging Goku across the field! that was so amazing to see.
Here's a thought that may or may not blow someone's mind: Zen-Oh is the Audience. Literally, they represent us. We have the power to affect the story. We can change the course of a saga, or cause it to end. We were brought together by Goku, we are impressed by his exploits, we want to see him and his friends fight other strong fighters. We knew, from the very beginning of the tournament arc, that the other universes would be wished back.
*2:03:20** "I LIVED, AHAHAHA" -Kaiser does a great Chris Ayres Freeza.*
I loved the episode where Future Trunks spent time with Gohan and his family. I also loved the Sword of Hope.
I love coming back and listening to Kaiser's speech at the end. This guy is smart, tell ya what.
Grant just put into words why I’ve been having such a tough time with this series. I have been struggling to explain it for myself for months and Grant just did it. I loved some moments in Super, but overall, I hate that it made me question for my love for the series.
I like the way Vegeta eliminated Toppo as it showed how far Vegeta has come from the Buu saga. Toppo throwing away his ideals is very similar to what Vegeta did to become Majin Vegeta, and as he was Majin Vegeta when he first used the Final Explosion, it ends up being a very nice reference, at least in my opinion.
1:35:39 “let’s bring it to a million” the video is currently sitting at over 13 million. Well done Kaggy.
I'm with Kaiser on Frieza, I vocally hated them replacing Buu with him, but all of that washed away after seeing the way they handled his return. I mean, you could cut the underlying tension in every scene and line bounced between him and Goku during that episode with a Kienzan and I honestly didn't think they had the writing chops or shot composition know-how to pull that kind of subtlety off. I guess the Resurrection F arc just left such a bad taste in my mouth that I had lost all hope that Frieza could be done justice in this show.
I didn't like the fact that he got to live afterwards, cuz he's literally going around taking over planets
" can buu turn people back from food" well.. scott you skipped buu saga I see.. lol
Lokim23 thats what I was saying XD
The fight between Buu and Vegito alone pretty much gives it away XD
he also watched the japanese version and only that dub..,so yeah
Lokim23 Eh, honestly that is a detail I’d forget about, too🙃
Jack Leonhart well, if he can turn people into candy, why not the other way around? which he does
When Vegeta did the Final Explosion that should have been like when Goku got hit with his own Spirit Bomb causing a similar effect unlocking Ultra Instinct for him.
Kaiser "We'll Get to That" Neko
I love how, halfway through, Grant and Kaiser just started ignoring Alejandro.
I love him, but damn he was a little much in this one.
Pre voice actor Sabb as he was bit more childish back then.
I have like a thousand thoughts after watching/listening to this FMK but I just want to say that I could listen to the TFS guys talk about Dragon Ball for hours and hours and hours. I love you guys and I love this video.
You are correct, Kaiser/Scott, yes the animation director was in fact replaced. The guy who was the head in the Buu saga in Z was the director but his style was hard for them to work with.
And you guys got it mixed up with Tien and Roshi! They decided beforehand that they wanted to recruit Roshi and Tien was the one they only thought of afterward!
Honestly the entire tournament arc of super feels to me like set-up for something better that we are gonna get. Setting up new compelling characters. Giving Goku and Vegeta different paths to power instead of constantly being in eachother a wake. Developing new sources of conflict
Ha! Everyone's been saying the same thing since two arcs ago.
"Gohan isn't present at the tournament against U6 so he's definitely gonna train and become the main character for the next arc! There's no way the reason is that he's actually at a business meeting right?"
Always lower your expectations with Super, friend. It will rarely deliver anything worthwhile.
"developing new sources of conflict"
Looking back at super and... Freeza again, future trunks again, and two tournaments. At least there was beerus.
Best moment watching android 18 beat the shit outta ribrianne
I feel like they made her come back so much just so it would be *so fucking cathartic* when she finally dies.
45 seconds in and Grant once again becomes my immediate favorite.
Grant is honestly awesome, I never thought someone who just popped up with their gaming channel would become one of if not my favorite of the crew.
Grant is the best!
I honestly like ben the most but he is more of a role model for me
Grant is the bacon of TFS, he makes everything better.
Until he accidentally delete the new DBZA episode again.
I *hated* what they did with Tien. I wish skinny Buu had been on the team instead. Or Cell. Cell's interactions with Fireza, the androids and Gohan would have been entertaining as hell.
yeah and also raditz, nappa and ginyu force while theyre at it, then theyd have the universal villains team
They have that stuff in FighterZ, so don't worry.
I would’ve liked to see cell, however raditz and the Ginyu force would just be fan service as hell
I feel like this arc happened too early. There should have been a few arcs before this where the U7 gang explored the other universes or something like that. Some way to get us attached to at least some of the other universes characters at least. It was a big mistake to introduce all of those random ass characters here with barely any time to develop them.
Ithink the ghost nappa thing might have been a coincidence, BUT the close-up on mr. Popo was definitely taken from you guys.
ZGuy1000 refresh my memory, when did Super reference Ghost Nappa? I can’t for the life of me remember it.
krillin and goku go do an errand for roshi as an excuse to train and see a bunch of "ghosts" in a forest
Oh right. I didn't think that was a Ghost Nappa reference per se, but that Popo close up...
The thing that made it feel like a TFS reference was at the point where the ghosts all turned white because of mood lighting and every single one of them is Nappa.
The only TFS-esque reference I could remember was when Piccolo was trying to recover from fighting the universe 6 namekians and we see both Nail and Kami in his mind. It was a pretty neat callback.
It’s been theorized that the angels are all in a constant form of Ultra Instinct, and they all have white hair, so I’m theorizing that the reason Goku gets white hair in Ultra Instinct is because he’s a mortal gaining the fighting abilities of an angel.
DH2007able thanks Captain Obvious...
I absolutely dig royal blue - only because it finally makes Vegeta the strongest DB character who isn't a god.
Especially after the end where Goku can't go into ultra-instict without being completely overwhelmed.
I'm in Grant's camp in my thoughts for Super overall.
Honestly, this episode of FMK had a much more positive view of the arc than I was expecting, glad you guys enjoyed parts of it. This video helped me reconcile some of my issues with the arc, and for that I thank you. Question, would you be willing to do a DBS Abridged short for Goku, Freeza, and 17 bickering against Jiren? Cause that would be hilarious.
It seems that Teamfourstar really hates Goku Black arc minus MasakoX.
It's more like they hate it's ending I think.
Yeah i'm currently watching the dub and really not looking forward to the ending
I like the arc overall, but fuck that ending
Umm they just don't like the ending and the end of Zamasu's character arc.
SJ.Fox Yeah, The Ending Focking Sucks
I’ve always liked to call Vegeta’s new form: Super Blue Vegeta.
I really love this arc, but I also really like the criticism you bring in these discussions. Thanks for the great video!! Lots to think on :)
Oh man, my favorite thing said about Gohan here: "what's the point if you're going to undo it." Just... for whatever reason, whoever is responsible for writing decisions absolutely haaaaaaaaaates the idea of following through on Gohan's character, ever, even after writing Gohan to state his own goals that he wants to reach for himself. Every single time he ever does or is given something, it gets undone or shoved aside. Given exactly what Grant says about how wonderful it is that Gohan has that home life away from the fighting, the writers seem outright malicious toward the character, more so than toward Tien if only because it went on all throughout Z as well. Biggest example is what he tells Goku during their fight during the tournament prep. He's gonna find his own unique ultimate form. Fast forward to when he gets literally shoved off-stage and the very next episodes the writers hand out new transformations like candy while denying Gohan self-fulfillment for the umpteenth time.
"Shoutout to Gohan Blanco" like sure hahaha funny bad joke, but it's actually pretty pathetic that a terrible meme is more interested in following through with character development than the writers that keep propping the character up only to burn it down themselves.
Loved it. Favorite part was when they introduced the Sayains from Universe 6, Caulifla and Kale. I know some people hate them but I still found myself enjoying their screen time. Though, the arc’s not perfect. For example, Piccolo’s elimination was just awful. Besides a couple other flaws, I personally enjoyed the arc. Though, don’t hate me for enjoying the arc and super. If you didn’t enjoy it, it’s okay. It’s not for everyone.
I agree completly, dude. This Arc is not for everybody and is not even close to being perfect, but it was an enjoyable Arc I will not forget for a long time.
My biggest problem with this Arc was one character - Tien. He didn't do anything. He didn't have to be Vegeta or Goku in terms of moments, but come on! He was underused to hell in this!
ML WARRIOR thanks for agreeing with me. Though I do agree with you about Tien. He had that one moment and it wasn’t properly executed. Should’ve been better.
I liked it, but I thought it was too long. I liked Jiren in significantly less then half, and there were at least ten episodes where I couldn't stand the stick figure labeled with "rlly stronk" called Jiren. He pulled it back by the end though. And Caulifla and Kale were excellent.
Prof 1 cool. I kind of felt it was too long as well.
you are just the worst kind of person.
One part that I personally loved the most was the intro to God of Destruction Toppo. The combination of the sheer intensity, speed, and Malice of Toppo during this beat down is one of the best uses. These factors have been used in varying ratios for so many villains and characters, but something about either the level or exact combination for Toppo in particular for this just spoke to me a lot more. I was honestly saying that people need to see this, which I'm not usually an advocate for "tying someone down to watch something". But this part in general was just really amazing for me.
*sees Kaggy*
*now has the dopiest smile on my face for the rest of the video*
Vegetafication of Frieza? Please, it's a Yamchafication, or at the very latest a Tienification. DB has been doing the enemy-turned-frenemy for a looooong time. Even before Piccolo and Vegeta.
But nobody watched Dragonball.
Army of Won they have just not many people have seen og dragon ball do to it not on streaming service or stuff like that
@@DaiGato420 The whole series is on Hulu. It's in Japanese but still.
Wouldn't it be Oolongification.
*Both of them praising the manga...and then the ToP chapters started, welp.*
So, we gonna get a review of the manga ToP now?
*Toei took Lord Popo from you in that one episode where Vegeta destroyed the time chamber*
Bulma over 18...what is this heresy?
I thought Tien was the last minute thought and Roshi was the one Goku was looking for.
27:24
HOLY SHIT!!! I dropped Super for AWHILE because I was sick of it. I fucking didn’t know he did this shit.
Kaizer is extremely right here. Holy shit.
Also full on agreement for the previous topic.
Ntr isn’t okay. Like holy shit I’m blown away by this.
Great talk. I agree with about all the ups and downs. It was an erratic ride but I'm glad I watched it. One of my favourites that wasn't mentioned was Episode 118. The men taking on Magical Girl powers to fight Goku and the Androids combined with Gohan and Piccolo against the Multi-Fused Namekians was great.
54:30
What if the reason they treated Goku as the villain was because he was the closest thing to a scapegoat they had. They're all so scared of Zeno they wouldn't dare say an unkind word to him but Goku is still basically a hate sink for their frustration.
1:49:00 I think that Goku and Vegeta's Resurrection F outfits we're specifically designed to make the Blue form stand out. Both characters are associated with having outfits that are blue, so when the blue was replaced with grey or taken away altogether, it left a strange void that we didn't even notice was wrong until the Blue forms were revealed, and then SUDDENLY it all looks right again.
At least that's my personal theory anyway.
I feel like the relationship between goku and frieza has evolved into a mutual respect for each other's strength. But they also really hate eachother and I love it.
1:46:25 Yes! I spent about half of the arc shouting "FUSION! USE FUSION!" at the screen whenever they talked about Jiren being too strong to beat.
This video just popped up in my feed as if it’s new, I must be starved for content
God damn do I love your multiple hour long sessions. Like seriously. I’m so fucking excited.
after watching them talking about ep 131 i had to go watch it again i really love that finally final battle 3 vs 1 couldn't have been better
Scott this has probably made you my favorite person in the TFS crew
And now I have to karmatically balance that statement by saying Ultra Instinct was hinted at AS AN ABILITY. NOT A FORM. Beerus and Whis use Ultra Instinct (Beerus' being incomplete) with no external changes. It's an ability. Not a form. It should be tacked on to their being. STATE OF BEING. Just silly. Super bad writing again
is no one considering Freeza becoming a God of Destruction? I thought that's what they were hinting at with Whis claiming "Beerus told me to bring you back." I for some reason remember that. I just think that twist may be a good way of keeping Freeza around while leaving him to still be an asshole.
Torei Riri When Frieza is brought back at Baba's place. And he's just killing the assassins, the Supreme Kai of U9 even says to Sidra that he'd be a better god of destruction than him. That Frieza's pure evil and doesn't even care about his own universe's destruction. That's why U7 and U9 were at the bottom of the mortal level ranking. Their GoDs and Kais didn't do their jobs. Frieza honestly would be the best GoD.
I would've loved to see Roshi with all his experience and wisdom leading the team. I could see him acting kinda like Mavis from fairy tail during their tournament arc and laying out the winning strategies for how to best utilize their teams strengths and weaknesses
Also I agree. I hated them reusing Vegeta's sacrifice and bastardizing it. His sacrifice against Buu is my all time favorite Dragonball moment and too see it get watered down to this level was so disappointing
the vegeta ultra instinct rant was 100% waranted but I wonder if they felt gratified or if it was too little to late when ultra ego vegeta became a thing.
According to the timeline, Chiaotzu is 44 years old during the Universe Survival Arc....
Great video, I will agree with others though that Alejandro started getting pretty annoying towards to end. I have no problem with cursing and infact think it can add some flair if used correctly but when your dishing it out like lewd looks from Roshi in a strip club for 3 hours it starts to get pretty jarring. It might have been more tolerable if he added some substance to the conversations but most of what he said was pretty meme feeling.. Not enough that I couldn't make it to the end but jeez was I tired of hearing him towards the last half. Can we get Grant on regular FMK? I would love if he decided ties or something like that. He was well spoken and I genuinely enjoyed listening to what he had to say. Seems like he would work well as a middle ground between Ben and Scott/Kirran. Scott did great unsurprisingly, however I was amazed at how much I enjoyed Scott hosting. Maybe we could get like 2 episode a season of FMK that both Scott/Kirran can be the host(or maybe sometime in the uncut section, I just want to see them steering conversations once in awhile). Dont get me wrong if your reading this Alejandro, you did great and did have a couple pretty good points but it all goes out the window when I am more annoyed than interested in hearing you speak. You should look at how Kirran delivers his points because I feel like you guys have very similar discussion styles, but he is a little better at "crowd" work and understands that yes you are talking with a couple friends about anime but you are also trying to keep the attention of a broad audience outside of you and a couple buddies. Keep at it and I feel pretty strongly that all these criticism will go out the window with more practice. Either way id fuck this episode!
THANK YOU Kaiser, I've thought that reasoning for Goku going SSB against Krillin for EVER. showing just what he's up against, AND 18 even thinks that inner monologue style!
1:45:33
[Spoilers for the DBS Granola Arc]
See this is why I adore what they did with Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego.
Even though Goku learned what Whis describes as one of many layers of UI, Vegeta found his own seperate path.
Goku masters the calm elegent transcendent form of the angels, and Vegeta masters the battle loving "ego" state of the Gods of Destruction.
Great video guys!
It’s so great hearing this after seeing the dragonball super super hero … their Gohans take was so valid and I feel like it is partly fixed
Kaiser, Grant.
Never bring that other dude back. He brought nothing to the table.
27:43
god I love how when Kaiser says this they both remember it, try to find some way around it, but can't come up with one
1:10:30 f yea Kaiser, very much appreciate the Asura's Wrath comment, love that game lol
This episode and the ToP arc as a whole can be basically summarized in these few words: so much potential to be one of the greatest arcs ever but that potential is almost never realized. Sad but true ;(
Protocol115 MCGaming those aren't a few words
Lord Omega Perhaps to you they aren't, but to me they are. Good now?
Protocol115 MCGaming that's 18 words in one sentence. Hardly a few. A few is 3 or 4.
That being said, I wholeheartedly agree with your statement.
Lord Omega Eh, to each his own. That's just my opinion though. And yeah, for sure agree!
"Ok Boys!...Turtle Hermit school secret technique!... Krillin grab her shirt... Just like at Baba's"
Dudes I stayed awake until 2 or 3 in the morning to watch these last episodes of super as soon as they came out... so in my opinon this is clearly the best arc of super.
I want a version of ToP that actually took 48 minutes
Red Lantern Reviews the manga seems paced correctly
There is actually a YT video that splices together different video footage to actually fit everything into 48 minutes.
Here's the thing about Tenshinhan. Since the time skip after the piccolo jr. fight he has had a single role in every Arc: show up once, look cool for a hot second, But ultimately get his ass kicked. Super just continues that. I don't know where people get it in their head that he has been some powerful badass this entire time.
Sammy Dray As poorly animated as it was, his "look cool" scene was fighting against the sniper.
Sammy Dray Tenshinhan dealing damage to Nappa did nothing to the narrative.
Blocking semi-perfect Cell prevented him from absorbing 18 briefly. What would have been the difference? Cell still would have sadistically done the Cell games.
In Boo, Gohan was already vastly inferior to Super Boo after letting him absorb Gotenks and Piccolo. Gohan stopped being the salvation if the universe the moment that occurred. Honestly, it's partially Tenshinhan's fault that Gohan was absorbed, facilitating the need for Vegetto. But again, his impact on the actual narrative is minimal.
And that's the thing, his impact on the narrative post Piccolo Jr. Is always minimal. And Super just continued that by giving him a single, poorly executed admittedly, moment before his contribution was irrelevant.
No 17: I wish for all universes to come back...ON A KICKASS CRUISE! *Everyone teleports to a space cruise and they all proceed to have a giant kickass party with all the contestants*
I take every I love about Super ending back. This is how it should have ended.
Thanks for this guys ☺
I loved all of this and then some! It was great to completely agree and completely disagree to many of the thoughts on the good and bad in Dragon Ball Super. It as very intriguing to hear the parts that I didn't think about before and surface up as a hidden slacking part of super or a hidden gem of super. I personally loved Dragon Ball Super, but not as much as the og dragon ball or Z. Great job on the review guys and can't wait to see the upcoming movie and see you guys dissect that too. Keep it up!
Wow I literally sat through the whole 2.5 hours
“I never did get that boat...”
32:35 Toei also probably stole TFS's Mr Popo with the close up of him saying "Break that again and you're banned" to Vegeta in episode 91. #peckingorder #maggot
Kaiser nailed almost all of my criticisms of this arc. I think even with the good moments of the arc I couldn't say I was okay with it overall though.
As a big fan of Gohan (it's my favourite character) I'm very disappointed that they let him be so weak. I'm I even hated that as a child. He became the strongest fighter in the cell-saga and than all of a sudden, they made it up, that he didn't train in these 7 years in between. I hated that so much, but they gave him a very strong boost with the Ultimate form. Somehow I think they forget how strong that form actually was. I mean at that point he was the strongest fighter again but when they fought Beerus he got knocked out with 1 or 2 punches. I just want Gohan to be great again. He still stronger than his father was in his age but there is so much potential in this character.
17. Gather the Dragonballs and wish for a cruise. In EVERY UNIVERSE.
This was wonderful
I've been expecting this.
I thought of Frieza's murder spree and instantly thought of Stewie's "that was a GOOD! glass of O.j." then without mercy 1/2 murders brian LOL
I'm surprised they didn't bring up the nostalgia bomb of a stinger that was Goku and Vegeta striking their original fighting poses while standing somewhere strikingly similar to where they first fought while Cha-la Head Cha-la played in the background.
I'm really looking forward to the next series. Super just kinda feels like a pre-show to me. Like a big big building up and as far as I heard about the rebuilding of the whole editor segment, I'm pretty excited about what will come. The expectation is high as always but in the end I'm just happy to be able to watch new dragon ball stuff again. I hope the movie will be succesfull and we will get a new and way better series.
aw, that ultra instinct kamehameha blast to her face from goku. I screamed Dooooommmm!!!
How universe 7 was used.
Krillin-Did well for his short time, but was eliminated too early especially after dedicating 3 episodes prior to the tournament to him with him getting his balls back. And yet the guy who needs to get his balls back is the one that got too cocky and dropped his guard and got kicked out because of it? Bad writing, but oh hey he got kicked out by a guy who kind of looks like Frieza cause Krillin got killed by Frieza.....so....cool, right? I suppose it’s cool to see an elimination early on to show no one is safe, but Krillin is about the most obvious person you could pick considering his treatment in other sagas. If they really wanted to subvert expectations, they would have Krillin in the top 5.
Missed opportunities: Not being paired with brother-in-law 17, Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, and Frieza.
Tien-Lasted like 6 or 8 episodes more than Krillin, but got completely shafted. One would think with all his continuous training, he would be at Super Saiyan 2 levels. Didn’t have one cool moment that rivaled him vs. Cell. When he got tossed around by Gohan, fans were holding out hope that he would do better in the tournament and developed some new techniques. Alas that didn’t happen. Tien, Goku’s first real rival who increased his strength dramatically and didn’t have a power boost from water or had training from a God, managed to train 3 times as hard just to catch up and to hold his own in his rematch with Goku at the world tournament, is now basically the new Yamcha.
Missed opportunities: Not seeing him pair up with Goku or Vegeta who he has butted heads with.
Roshi-Probably would have made more sense if Yamcha was here, but I like Roshi more as a character so I’ll allow it. Though the extraggerated perversion was annoying. Sure that was always there, but here it felt like it was cranked to 11. Did better than I thought, but presumably there has to be some weaker fighters for him to fight and the less this show focuses on power levels and transformations in order to make older characters useful again, the better. No real complaints about his performance though I never bought that whole “oh you must have done some secret training” to stand up to even base Goku.
Missed opportunities: Really no Kamahamaha wave with Goku and Krillin?
Piccolo: After having one of the best moments in the tournament with the Kamahamaha/Special Beam Cannon combo, Piccolo is unceremoniously kicked out of the ring in the next episode. Yay? Piccolo’s performance was....meh. He lasted a good 20 episodes, I’ll give him that and he did get a few more eliminations before his loss. I’m probably in the minority here, but every time it kicked back to Goku fighting Caulifa and Kale, I wanted them to go back to Gohan/Piccolo fighting the namekians. Still feel like it would have been cool if he were appointed leader, well that or 17(since he picked up on the bug before even Piccolo.....AND PICCOLO IS THE ONE WITH THE BIG EARS!!!).
Missed opportunities: not seeing him pair up with Goku, Krillin, Frieza, and especially 17. Also Vegeta since they have butted heads though they have never actually fought....isn’t that weird black man?
18: Did good. Kind of felt like the writers forgot her again until her fight with Ribranne, but outlasted Piccolo which was a surprise. But yea, I don’t have much complaints with her and I’m just glad we got to see our 1 female representative fight and not get knocked out early on.
Missed opportunities: Honestly not much here. She got to pair up with Krillin, 17, and Goku. I would have liked to have seen her work with Vegeta at one point, but SAD FOR ME!!!
Gohan: Did.....alright? I guess. I never was one of those people that predicted Gohan would win or beat Jiren nor did I think he was gonna transform. He’s not the main character.....at least not in this series. Then again neither is 17 and he made it till the end. Still after all that build up, his performance was....okay? I was kind of hoping he would make it to the top 3, but I can’t really complain about that unique last 3 line-up. I feel Gohan’s arc should be about reconciling the two parts of himself. The Saiyan competitive side and the human/husband/father/pacifist side. He decides he’s gonna continue to be a scholar, but he’s gonna take some time once a week to continue training in order to protect his family. As the Buu arc suggested twice, but then kind of dropped, Goku won’t always been around forever to resolve everything. Not great. Not horrible. Just okay. Still feels like the writers don’t know what to do with him.
Missed opportunities: Not pairing him up with Goku, Krillin, and Vegeta. No rage moment.
Vegeta: Honestly I’m struggling to remember his role in the tournament and I say that as a disappointed Vegeta fan more than any other character in the show. I vaguely remember him fighting with Goku against universe 9. He fought briefly against Toppo, but it just kept cutting back to Goku fighting. He got a new lame transformation(not nearly as helpful as ultra instinct) which still didn’t help against Jiren. Then they tried work off nostalgia with Vegeta sacrificing himself, but it didn’t matter because he lived. And worse of all 17(who nearly gave up his life just so Vegeta can finish the job along with Goku) and Frieza still outlasted him with Vegeta watching on the sidelines.
17: Damn it Vegeta. I nearly killed myself for you to win this and here I am, picking up your slack. Useless.
Vegeta(crying): I know.
Missed opportunities: 18, Tien, Gohan, and especially Frieza.
Frieza: I was relatively pleased how they used him.....for the most part. While I was disappointed that Buu was left out and felt fatigued with Frieza, he was a fun wild card and though it didn’t happen often, it was fun to see him paired up with other characters like Gohan, 17, and Gohan. I did feel like they were insinuating that Frieza had some master plan, but that never really came about sadly. Aside from the writers forgetting him from time to time especially early on, he’s still one of highlights. Love him taunting Jiren and getting into his head after being tossed around by Toppo and Jiren.....although I loved Toppo kicking Frieza’s ass.
Missed opportunities: Vegeta, Krillin, Piccolo. Saved the Goku team up till the end for better or for worse.
Goku: Of course he didn’t get shafted. He is the star of the show. There’s barely an episode where he wasn’t the focus. Fights universe 9. Fights Kale and Caulifa. Some universe 11 fighters. Some more fighters. Jiren. Kale and Caulifa again. Universe 2. List goes on and on. We get 2 episodes of Goku fighting Jiren. 1 episode where he’s out of commission. Then he’s fighting again in a weakened state in the next. Then we get 4 episodes in a row of him fighting Kale and Caulifa. If you thought from that sick Limit Break survivor opening that this show would balance the use of characters, you would be wrong. I did like that they paid off the Ultra Instinct hinted at in the resurrection of Frieza arc. I also like that it’s not a Saiyan form. Anyone can achieve it? Does that mean Tien or Piccolo will achieve it? Nope.
Missed opportunities: Gohan, Piccolo, Tien, Krillin.
17: MVP. I was looking forward to him fighting, but I was not expecting him to make the most impact. Even the most negative naysayers seem to like him. He was useful. Funny. Badass. He showed more insight than the actual leader and saved his teammates asses multiple times. He doesn’t even bother letting universe 2 transforms. Love that guy. To have him win and make the wish seemed fitting. He was also one of the few with a goal in mind.
Missed opportunities: Krillin and Piccolo. That’s it.
Pleased: 17, Frieza, 18, Roshi, Goku
Disappointed: Vegeta, Krillin, Tien, Piccolo, Gohan
I think I should have reduced the actual tournament from what 33-34 episodes to 22 to 25, but add more episodes in the preparation. Maybe the tournament takes place a year later and the team has 1 year to train with Piccolo appointed as leader trying to come up with moves and how to best utilize the team while Whis and Beerus serve as trainers. Each character is given an arc, motivation and/or goal in this tournament whether it’s proving you’re the strongest, showing that yes you’re a human, but you’re not weak, wanting to protect your family, or having a particular wish in mind.Well Frieza has a goal and no arc.
Cut out the preliminary stuff. I also think we should have gotten to know more about these other characters in other universes throughout this series before we got to arc. That way we are more conflicted with universe 7 goes against them. Also too what was the point of the time limit if it never really factored in at all? How come there is a time limit and yet characters just stand around and talk?
I thought this arc was.....okay at best and that’s probably being a little generous. There were terrible moments, great moments, and okay moments. It did give me hope for better dragon ball.
Super had some really big problems but enjoyed it
"Just because you love something unconditionally doesn't mean you love it better, it just means you love it sadder." I believe that was Jenny Nicholson. Good person to quote, she's awesome.
I had to watch the last fight for like the 20th time after this. Best fight in DB no contest
The problem with Roshi in Super is that he doesn't get punished for being a creep. I don't like the pervy character bit in general, but if you take away the punishment its no longer a joke.
And you know what's even more hilarious? People absolutely despite Mineta, a character in MHA who is quite similar to Roshi in many ways, but they give Roshi a complete pass just because he fits the "badass old man" trope.
You know what is even more hilarious? "Mineta" in polish is sexual term for "eating pussy". Try sitting with straight face when girls in MHA yells "Mineta".
Joshua Groom, i kind of think it is more because roshi comes from a time when the show was made where this kind of joke was easier made. So roshi doing it is super is hated so muxh because it is part of his charcter for years.
Mha is a new show coming out in a time where that is much harder to make a joke about it. Minata doesnt have a history/fanbase to support him. (It could also be diffrent ages in the fanbase)
Grievance junky generation.
Yeah, I get that. I just find it kind of hypocritical that there are people who hate Mineta, but if I were to ask them what they thought of Roshi, they'd probably say that at the very least, he's pretty cool.
Toei also took the zoomed in popo eyes
They took less than 10 minutes of ONE episode to flesh out Jirens character...the MAIN ANTAGONIST/CHALLENGE but spent tons on Ribrianne who got flickered away and will never amount to anything important to the story. I love the world building, I love any and everything that isnt Goku but I also value some good writing and I dont think there wasenough of that in this arc.
D3AniMs, to be honest jiren backstory just shows us his ideals. That power is absolute and he does everything alone. I think his personality comes when he starts to get pushed back. He just starts tk break down but in episode 131 he picks himself up agains and that damn smile just made me so happy.
Idk it hard to explain but i just love jiren. How he went from beeing somebkdy just too show that goku is not that strong yet and that he did it all alone but having him crumble down and pick himself up again just felt so good.
Jiren is a favorite for me as well, only on the merit of I understand what he's supposed to be but he had the misfortune of being written terribly. His backstory was practically a shoe in because Belmod randomly jumps up and says it. Jiren was executed terribly. I appreciate the effort but it was done badly. Kind of like when a child wants to make their parents breakfast and it turns out bad.
Coming back to the broly hatin after the new movie came out is the best 😂
56:47 I agree and it's the EXACT same problem I had with the Goku black ark.
I genuinely enjoy SSJB Evolution.
It's nice to see a more middle ground discussion of DBS for a change (even if the series just ended)
I enjoy coming back to this years later and knowing in the manga, vegeta has ultra ego, a more offensive version of ultra instinct.
Caulifla and Kale were badass and so was their fusion, and how Goku took them out was soooooooooooooooooooo poetically gratifying.
1:45:55
You fucking called it lmfao