I want to use outboard gear. Consoles are cool yet bulky. I do a lot of mobile recording. I love analog preamps mainly like SSL and Cranborne Audio and Neve. I like the fact you mix up preamps via 500 series. I want to set up like this and get a faderport as a setup I will be good to go!!! The 500 stuff saves a lot of space and easier to get around with!!!
I'm using a Cranborne Audio 500R8 lunchbox which also contains volume and pan controls for each of the 8x 500 modules, so it includes a summing mixer in 4U (and also works as an audio interface). I also use a 1U Speck.Xsum summing mixer for 16 stereo channels as that's more suited for my synth setup. I'm thinking of getting the After Audio Bartender & Barback eurorack modules as I'm sometimes missing large faders and you can put 16 stereo channels with faders into a 3U rack space (and even remote control them via CV or a MIDI to CV converter). So all in all, this would get me 32 stereo and 8 mono channels in 8U rack space ... try to beat that with a console 😏
Kind of, but not exactly. A 30 channel Neve or API console of the quality of the CAPI and Sound Skulptor would cost 100k+. But here, as it's recording channels only, it's maybe 30k which is much more affordable. Assuming the Sound Skulptor was assembled from the DiY kits. Then, he could build those 30 channels over time. Also the final 30 channels are much more compact, maintainable and expandeable than a console. Then you get more than one flavour of preamp. You'd have to buy a small Neve AND a small API and (a valve...) to get the tonal range. But then what it's missing from a console: eye candy/centrepiece aesthetic professional studio console expectation effect. But is that worth 70k, and it takes up a huge amount of space, power and is acoustically awlward. Then you don't get all the EQs, inserts, aux on every channel you usually get with a console. Also busses/routing and monitoring control. Things like the Cranborne 800R and monitor controllers get you some of that. But, he'd have to add more EQs at more cost to match a console. But you often don't need that much EQ for tracking.
@@artysanmobile These days, even most professional mixers that have great 100k+ Neve, API consoles don't actually use them very often for mixing. Mixing is more often than not done in ITB, > 90% of the time even when a great mixer is sitting there. Mainly because they don't have the speed of recall. So they often get mainly used for tracking, and often alongside API 500 units, for tonal flexibility. And they sometimes get used for summing and become glorified huge mouse and keyboard desks. They do get used sometimes, on slower higher-budget or clients who specifically want that (along with tape) but in those projects you'd probably have enough turnover to justify afford a console by that point. But few projects have that budget these days, so setup speed is king. They really come into their own for single project/artist studios too where recall isn't such an issue if it's one project/track at a time and time pressure and project/track turnover speed isn't an issue. Then the console can stay setup exactly as it's wanted and the setup stays quite fixed.
@compucorder64 In my experience, the big consoles serve as modified summers. If it’s a console I like (SSL, Neve) I will use its processing on stems because they really excel at that. I finally got rid of my Amek when I had too much work, 2-3 artists simultaneously, week after week for a couple years. I grew to love mixing on a control surface; the boundless complexity of session storage, save and change projects in 5 seconds. My $ room Artisan Mobile, is a tractor trailer. The change lightened my weight by 1250lbs!
I do a hybrid mixture of a small mixer and seperate preamps to an Alesis HD 24XR for band tracking then transer to mixing in the box. Thanks for the tour!
I worked for 4 years in a studio where there was a console. I never used it for mixing, It takes a lot of time to route all the channels and its cumbersome (almost impossible) to recall. You need to move your head a lot and leave the sweet spot. Furthermore, it messes up the freq response of your speakers. But on tracking it's awesome!, it's saves a lot of time. Eq on every channel on the way in gives huge cumulative effect on performance, because musicians happy with there headphones mixes. And the most important: console is fun to play with.
Yep got mine too, it’s perfect. You can have 28 in 30 out. If you don’t need more. It’s super cool for home or band studio.. for a pro.. i thinks it’s not enough
Very interesting video, thank you. Initially I thought that a mixing console was more interesting for recording than for mixing, but you proved that even for recording it's not really necessary anymore. And you have a very cool studio, even with the instruments "mess", it's very warm and welcoming!
Watching this, I expected a lot more subscribers. Alas! You just started! Super professional video quality, and I really appreciate the info. More stuff for me to consider. Thank you for sharing 🎉
8 месяцев назад
Started watching this video without knowing who you are, and for my surprise, Tides of Nebula is one of my all time favourite post-rock bands. Thanks for this very informative video and for the music you've been making all these years.
Great video. You make some excellent points. It's like you have several consoles because sound is still running through preamps, eq and compressors like a console, yours is more modular ( like Ikea).
I have a hybrid set up with 56 channel Neve desk, external mic pres just for different colors. Tracking, and headphone mixes as well as all CR monitor switching are done on the desk. Mixing mostly happens in the box buuuuut using the right side of the desk for mixing any of my 32 outputs from the DAW also allows insert points for all of my outboard gear. Editing and automation is done in the DAW usually with about 8-12 outputs on average on faders on the desk. Money channels always on the desk with Distressors, LA-2a, and 1176 hardware inserted.
I started my studio more than 30 years ago recording onto multitrack tape with a console I used for tracking and mixing. I now mix entirely in the box but I still have a 24-channel console I use for big tracking sessions, along with extra mic preamps. The pres in the console are FET and fast with lots of headroom, great for drums, while my outboard pres include Neve-style and tube ones, great for everything else. I also have a rack with analog compressors & limiters, some of which I've had for decades and that I know and love. My console has six aux sends that I use to create different headphones mixes for each musician. This setup is for me the best of both worlds - I get great analog sounds before I go into the DAW, after that I can use all the power and flexibility of digital processing for editing, mixing and mastering. I love it
The TFN stuff sounds phenomenal. I worked on a few sessions in the '90s where engineers would bring in preamps & send them straight into the tape machine. I started getting CAPI's 14 years ago & ditched my console. Consoles are great but very expensive to maintain.
I havent used a mixer of any sort in about 10 years. I would argue the smaller ones (8 channels or less) are better as you can pick them up, move them to the sound source and multi-mic/submix right there.
I'm finally out of the box. My DAW is essentially a 16 track tape deck... with of course the digital track benefits :) Would I return to tape? Unlikely no given the192KHz interfaces, but possibly for sentimental reasons. BTW, both BetterMaker and WesAudio are core components in my analog environment.
Nice equipment and studio but If you got 12 musicians and 4 singers in the studio how do you set up a 16 channel monitor mix? You need some way to send monitor mixes to the musicians while tracking even if it's with a cheap Mackie or Behringer mixer. Seems like that would be a real pain trying to do monitor mixes in the computer but some people are fast with a mouse I guess.. Union scale musicians don't ever want to wait on an engineer and they work incredibly fast. Of course if you only record a couple people at once with no time restraints I guess all you need is a small audio interface.
my boss still clings to his SSL. but it's more about speed than sound for him. out of the other 3 engineers here. nobody would get an analogue console anymore.
The lunchboxes contain the same electronics as inside a deck that gives the tone so you simply loose the faders and the analog summing when mixing in the box? Then the converters are the big spenditure instead of the deck? I mean, there is no free lunch...
Ironically I went for a console because itb exclusive mixing and recording was destroying my wrist and elbow, and if you're good with a soldering iron and look for deals you can get some cool stuff. I got a $30,000 USD console for $300 bucks in basically completely dead condition and after extensive cleaning it is full functional and now I'm replacing all the faders while a much better tech is modifying the master section. By the end I'll be probably about 2 grand into it including acquiring spare channels. Its definitely not for everyone, and i don't think consoles are necessary at all anymore. But when i see some people who have 24+ of the same preamps, tons of the same outboard eq, and have an Uber expensive monitor controller and summing mixer I kinda chuckle and wonder why they just didn't get an audient console or something similar, since the price would sometimes be less and those 4816s are not very physically large or use a lot of power.
I think the title should read 'Why we don't need a mixing desk'. Don't tell others what they need or don't need based on your own needs. That's illogical.
Its illogical to police the speech of others because of how a small demographic of the public might perceive and be affected mentally by the wording of a clickbait RUclips title
No, it's not. A small demographic in the youtube universe of 2.70 billion monthly subscribers (2024) could still affect thousands. It would only be illogical to police something that didn't affect anyone or anything. Nice try, tho.
Logical coherence isn't determined by the number of people impacted, that's a logical fallacy. RUclips has more than 2.70 billion monthly active users, a small demographic could be 100.000+ users. But that's beside the point, the 'you don't need x'-videos need to be buried as they make no sense. They're also exclusively made by people who can't afford what they tell you you don't need. No surprise there. LOL.
Logical coherence isn't determined by the number of people impacted, that's a logical fallacy. You need context to determine what someone 'needs', hence my comment.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Console or outboard?
I want to use outboard gear. Consoles are cool yet bulky. I do a lot of mobile recording. I love analog preamps mainly like SSL and Cranborne Audio and Neve. I like the fact you mix up preamps via 500 series. I want to set up like this and get a faderport as a setup I will be good to go!!! The 500 stuff saves a lot of space and easier to get around with!!!
I'm using a Cranborne Audio 500R8 lunchbox which also contains volume and pan controls for each of the 8x 500 modules, so it includes a summing mixer in 4U (and also works as an audio interface). I also use a 1U Speck.Xsum summing mixer for 16 stereo channels as that's more suited for my synth setup. I'm thinking of getting the After Audio Bartender & Barback eurorack modules as I'm sometimes missing large faders and you can put 16 stereo channels with faders into a 3U rack space (and even remote control them via CV or a MIDI to CV converter).
So all in all, this would get me 32 stereo and 8 mono channels in 8U rack space ... try to beat that with a console 😏
Bro you have 3 lunch boxes thats 30 channels. You basicly built a console!
But, unfortunately, not a MIXING console. What a ridiculous premise.
Kind of, but not exactly. A 30 channel Neve or API console of the quality of the CAPI and Sound Skulptor would cost 100k+. But here, as it's recording channels only, it's maybe 30k which is much more affordable. Assuming the Sound Skulptor was assembled from the DiY kits. Then, he could build those 30 channels over time. Also the final 30 channels are much more compact, maintainable and expandeable than a console. Then you get more than one flavour of preamp. You'd have to buy a small Neve AND a small API and (a valve...) to get the tonal range. But then what it's missing from a console: eye candy/centrepiece aesthetic professional studio console expectation effect. But is that worth 70k, and it takes up a huge amount of space, power and is acoustically awlward. Then you don't get all the EQs, inserts, aux on every channel you usually get with a console. Also busses/routing and monitoring control. Things like the Cranborne 800R and monitor controllers get you some of that. But, he'd have to add more EQs at more cost to match a console. But you often don't need that much EQ for tracking.
@@artysanmobile These days, even most professional mixers that have great 100k+ Neve, API consoles don't actually use them very often for mixing. Mixing is more often than not done in ITB, > 90% of the time even when a great mixer is sitting there. Mainly because they don't have the speed of recall. So they often get mainly used for tracking, and often alongside API 500 units, for tonal flexibility. And they sometimes get used for summing and become glorified huge mouse and keyboard desks. They do get used sometimes, on slower higher-budget or clients who specifically want that (along with tape) but in those projects you'd probably have enough turnover to justify afford a console by that point. But few projects have that budget these days, so setup speed is king. They really come into their own for single project/artist studios too where recall isn't such an issue if it's one project/track at a time and time pressure and project/track turnover speed isn't an issue. Then the console can stay setup exactly as it's wanted and the setup stays quite fixed.
@compucorder64 In my experience, the big consoles serve as modified summers. If it’s a console I like (SSL, Neve) I will use its processing on stems because they really excel at that. I finally got rid of my Amek when I had too much work, 2-3 artists simultaneously, week after week for a couple years. I grew to love mixing on a control surface; the boundless complexity of session storage, save and change projects in 5 seconds. My $ room Artisan Mobile, is a tractor trailer. The change lightened my weight by 1250lbs!
I do a hybrid mixture of a small mixer and seperate preamps to an Alesis HD 24XR for band tracking then transer to mixing in the box. Thanks for the tour!
I worked for 4 years in a studio where there was a console. I never used it for mixing, It takes a lot of time to route all the channels and its cumbersome (almost impossible) to recall. You need to move your head a lot and leave the sweet spot. Furthermore, it messes up the freq response of your speakers.
But on tracking it's awesome!, it's saves a lot of time. Eq on every channel on the way in gives huge cumulative effect on performance, because musicians happy with there headphones mixes.
And the most important: console is fun to play with.
I love love love compressors….i love your set up! Keep it going man!
The Cranbourne-Audio lunchbox might have been interesting. Interface + lunchbox for 500 + summing + monitoring...
As an owner of this piece of gear, I can say it's been great in so many ways. Definitely the heart of my studio.
Yep got mine too, it’s perfect. You can have 28 in 30 out. If you don’t need more. It’s super cool for home or band studio.. for a pro.. i thinks it’s not enough
Big fan of your band. I'm glad I found this channel 🎉
I love ur presentation style. Very friendly and genuine. Liked and subscribed!
Very interesting video, thank you. Initially I thought that a mixing console was more interesting for recording than for mixing, but you proved that even for recording it's not really necessary anymore. And you have a very cool studio, even with the instruments "mess", it's very warm and welcoming!
Watching this, I expected a lot more subscribers. Alas! You just started!
Super professional video quality, and I really appreciate the info. More stuff for me to consider. Thank you for sharing 🎉
Started watching this video without knowing who you are, and for my surprise, Tides of Nebula is one of my all time favourite post-rock bands. Thanks for this very informative video and for the music you've been making all these years.
Great video. You make some excellent points. It's like you have several consoles because sound is still running through preamps, eq and compressors like a console, yours is more modular ( like Ikea).
I have a hybrid set up with 56 channel Neve desk, external mic pres just for different colors. Tracking, and headphone mixes as well as all CR monitor switching are done on the desk. Mixing mostly happens in the box buuuuut using the right side of the desk for mixing any of my 32 outputs from the DAW also allows insert points for all of my outboard gear. Editing and automation is done in the DAW usually with about 8-12 outputs on average on faders on the desk. Money channels always on the desk with Distressors, LA-2a, and 1176 hardware inserted.
That was how old mixing consoles were built. So you pretty much have a console there.
I started my studio more than 30 years ago recording onto multitrack tape with a console I used for tracking and mixing. I now mix entirely in the box but I still have a 24-channel console I use for big tracking sessions, along with extra mic preamps. The pres in the console are FET and fast with lots of headroom, great for drums, while my outboard pres include Neve-style and tube ones, great for everything else. I also have a rack with analog compressors & limiters, some of which I've had for decades and that I know and love. My console has six aux sends that I use to create different headphones mixes for each musician. This setup is for me the best of both worlds - I get great analog sounds before I go into the DAW, after that I can use all the power and flexibility of digital processing for editing, mixing and mastering. I love it
What console is it?
Sound Skuptor have one of the best preamps available. They’re awesome.
The TFN stuff sounds phenomenal. I worked on a few sessions in the '90s where engineers would bring in preamps & send them straight into the tape machine. I started getting CAPI's 14 years ago & ditched my console. Consoles are great but very expensive to maintain.
Thanks!
Consoles are amazing for routing
Love the content brother. Can u make a video about your jump from individual recorded tracks into ur DAW? Interface and etc? Thx!
I havent used a mixer of any sort in about 10 years. I would argue the smaller ones (8 channels or less) are better as you can pick them up, move them to the sound source and multi-mic/submix right there.
I'm finally out of the box. My DAW is essentially a 16 track tape deck... with of course the digital track benefits :)
Would I return to tape? Unlikely no given the192KHz interfaces, but possibly for sentimental reasons.
BTW, both BetterMaker and WesAudio are core components in my analog environment.
Nice setup thanks for that - just starting with the 500 gear myself - cheers 😎
did you consider a 19''rack pre's? like a bae 1073 etc. ?
Nice equipment and studio but If you got 12 musicians and 4 singers in the studio how do you set up a 16 channel monitor mix? You need some way to send monitor mixes to the musicians while tracking even if it's with a cheap Mackie or Behringer mixer. Seems like that would be a real pain trying to do monitor mixes in the computer but some people are fast with a mouse I guess.. Union scale musicians don't ever want to wait on an engineer and they work incredibly fast. Of course if you only record a couple people at once with no time restraints I guess all you need is a small audio interface.
BEHRINGER p16 system ✌️
@@maciejkarbowski Ha! I knew you had to have one somewhere there. Great studio!
Cost of the setup ? 😄
Good content. How are you managing routing of headphone cues and monitoring? Directly from the interface?
DRAWMER MC 2.1
my boss still clings to his SSL. but it's more about speed than sound for him.
out of the other 3 engineers here. nobody would get an analogue console anymore.
great video! what camera gear do you use? looks amazing
Thanks! Sony A7SIII + various lenses
That elusive f****** pet/human hair that always makes its way onto the final edit.
great one, subscribed!
The lunchboxes contain the same electronics as inside a deck that gives the tone so you simply loose the faders and the analog summing when mixing in the box? Then the converters are the big spenditure instead of the deck? I mean, there is no free lunch...
Uh what??^
Ironically I went for a console because itb exclusive mixing and recording was destroying my wrist and elbow, and if you're good with a soldering iron and look for deals you can get some cool stuff. I got a $30,000 USD console for $300 bucks in basically completely dead condition and after extensive cleaning it is full functional and now I'm replacing all the faders while a much better tech is modifying the master section. By the end I'll be probably about 2 grand into it including acquiring spare channels.
Its definitely not for everyone, and i don't think consoles are necessary at all anymore. But when i see some people who have 24+ of the same preamps, tons of the same outboard eq, and have an Uber expensive monitor controller and summing mixer I kinda chuckle and wonder why they just didn't get an audient console or something similar, since the price would sometimes be less and those 4816s are not very physically large or use a lot of power.
Gear P*rn and an announcement of a new Tides of Nebula LP - Fuck Yeah!
Love it. How do you handle routing/Interface with your 500 series?
Patchbay :)
And you don't need a DAW! Let's talk!
Good info
Thanks
Hello. What for audio hardware is best for record hardware synthesizer and mixing?
Just use the DAW like everybody else. In ABX testing i actually prefer it to "summing" nonsense.
I don’t see a summing mixer in his setup
I don’t have a console bcuz I can’t afford 1 lol. I have outboard gear though primarily used for tracking
There's a lot of place to affect the mix. I can see how you could get away with that.
Mix in the box bro. Inexpensive and you can customize you environment to infinity. Hit the easy button. Stop doing this to yourself. Good luck!
Easy button is hardware
Great idea :) Just one doubt: how about the summing?
If needed, you might add external summing device ✌️
❤
Dude, you also don't need a PC, or a house, or fucking instruments for that matter ...
your mic sounds way too bassy and thick like you went full throttle on a UA-610 or something
What are you talking about ?
I think the title should read 'Why we don't need a mixing desk'. Don't tell others what they need or don't need based on your own needs. That's illogical.
Its illogical to police the speech of others because of how a small demographic of the public might perceive and be affected mentally by the wording of a clickbait RUclips title
No, it's not. A small demographic in the youtube universe of 2.70 billion monthly subscribers (2024) could still affect thousands. It would only be illogical to police something that didn't affect anyone or anything. Nice try, tho.
Logical coherence isn't determined by the number of people impacted, that's a logical fallacy. RUclips has more than 2.70 billion monthly active users, a small demographic could be 100.000+ users. But that's beside the point, the 'you don't need x'-videos need to be buried as they make no sense. They're also exclusively made by people who can't afford what they tell you you don't need. No surprise there. LOL.
Logical coherence isn't determined by the number of people impacted, that's a logical fallacy. You need context to determine what someone 'needs', hence my comment.
Daddy chill
Show off
Real record makers make records not videos.
Really?
That's why I'm using only cheap VSTs and don't even make music.
Simple economics!