Savvy Navvy - Navionics | Navigation Special
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- The argument goes like this... 'Charts are old fashioned, unnecessary and difficult to use' ... 'No charts are essential and it's unseaman like to set sail without them, period!'
Well I started sailing a good decade before GPS. All my sailing was done with a sextant, RDF and dead reckoning on a paper chart. When I started I was a teenager studying pure and applied maths and preparing for a astro physics degree so celestial navigation was right up my street. I liked nothing better than taking sun and star shots & working out my set & drift to carry plots forward and get that cocked hat as small as possible to nail my position. It was great fun and I could get a calculation done using the air tables or Reeds in minutes.
So what's my take on navigation at sea now? You may be surprised!
If you're interested in trying Savvy Navvy then Ben at the Pro Marine Store has some deals at the moment, the basic is 20% off but there's more if you buy other things from him, which is what I did.... www.promarines...
PATREON:
There is a way to see the current videos with no adds at all before they get released to the public by becoming an honorary member of crew and joining our Patreon group. You will have four or five days to see the latest video before anyone else. There are also lots of extra videos available on Patreon and you can contact us directly on board.
Continuing to produce these videos depends on our Patrons and we are very grateful for the support:
www.patreon.co...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please do make sure you subscribe it costs you nothing but helps us get seen by RUclips.
And if you ring the little bell you will get a notification of our next video:)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FACEBOOK:
You can also follow along on facebook where we constantly update what's happening:
www.facebook.c....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WEBSITE:
Lots more info on the website; www.sailingfair...
Thank you for putting this together Steve. We were eager to see how someone would review us in direct comparison with Navionics (to be honest, we fancied our chances). We'd be really happy to answer any specific questions from your viewers and hear their feedback after using the app - we have a 2-week free trial too, so they can dip their toe in the water with no risk.
The savvy navvy Team
And if you do want to buy it I’ve put a link in the description to where I got mine with a discount.
I didn't go into pricing as it gets complicated depending on what version you want and as I said I got a discount through Pro Marine Store, but you can check it all out at... www.savvy-navvy.com/
Does S-N do weather routing?
@@goeasy1232 we do indeed. Simply drop two pins and you get a route factoring in wind and tide. You even see your tidal vector on screen when you zoom in.
After Steve's excellent review of the brilliant features of savvy navvy I decided to take a look at it as I am planning a couple of routes in the coming weeks. Both routes raised issues, but I could not find a way to manually influence a route. Please let me know if such a facility exists. The first was Chichester Marina to Poole which was initially fine, but on closer inspection it routed me through potentially dangerous waters off the Needles. I wouldn't normally choose that route. The second was Lefkas Marina to Preveza. The auto routing didn't know about the swing bridge at Lefkas so routed all the way around Lefkada. 55 miles instead of 9! Before I use this system it needs something like a 'via' function to avoid such issues. I am familiar with both these locations but if I wasn't I'd be worried the auto routing could land me in difficulties.
I’ve learnt more watching this video ,then any class room I’ve attended
Returning to sailing after a break of almost 20 years has been a revelation. As someone who always used paper charts, I seldom do now. I have 2 tablets and 3 phones all with native GPS (not network) running navionics and savvy Navvy and a plethora of other apps which have all but made paper charts obsolete. This direct comparison was really useful and I also tend to use both apps for much the same reasons. Savvy navvy for planning and Navionics for actual passage making simply because I find the Navionics interface simpler and easier to read when sailing. Great video, really instructive and good to see some of our frequent haunts too!
Another informative and interesting film, thanks very much
Have used Navionics now for many years and find it incredibly useful, especially as we are doing so much family inshore sailing. That and predict wind for the forecasts. Yes its a faff to use multiple apps, but I know them and trust them. Redundancy of systems is key, I always have at least two devices with navionics on board at any one time. Great tech corner. Thank you
Well-argued and easy to watch as always, thank you. There's no doubt that GPS and electronic navigation have made sailing safer, and we (probably the MAIB too) would argue that any skipper would be crazy not to use the instruments they have at their disposal. On the other hand, we'd be very nervous without running a combination of paper chart and written logbook alongside electronics, even for short journeys. Whatever else happens, the pencil marks on the chart and in the book are going to be there for the duration of your passage (or until you sink - in which case, the whole discussion is moot).
On questions of tide and weather, it really takes no time at all to calculate these manually and keep them under observation (though of course it's nice to have them presented graphically). It might be a problem to suggest to novice sailors that electronics are the answer in this respect, as there's a risk of running into danger in the same way that a driver might end up in a ditch - because the GPS said it was okay.
Where we're really with you is the fact that charts are only as good as the day they were produced (Exmouth, for example, seems to change every tide). It's easy to update them, of course, but if you consider that some areas around the UK were last surveyed in the 19th century, it would suggest that neither paper nor electronics do quite the job that a good eyeballing can do :)
Yes the biggest downside to electronic charts is people who think that means they don't have to use their eyes. You can't really blame the tech for that though, no system is perfect but usually errors are of the human kind no matter what!
@@svfairisle That's certainly true. And we've certainly made plenty of errors using electronics and paper. We've found that mistakes on paper are more easily traced, though.
Thank you for posting this Steve, brilliant tuition 👍
Another great video Steve. Practical and informative for cruisers. And how refreshing AT LAST to hear from someone as experienced as yourself, that you don’t carry charts. We have precisely the same set up as you. Navionics and Savvy Navvy on multiple devices (Plus Nav on the B&G). They are both brilliant. Nav costs £40 for U.K. Sav Nav Elite £65 for global coverage. SV is far better for route planning under sail and the app just gets better and better all the time. We like to plot route and then flick between different days/times to find the fastest route. Far more accurate way of judging sailing time, taking into account tacking/tides/wind. Sav Nav also allows us to pull off our final route (via email) with relevant waypoints as a GPX file which we can load via an SD card onto our Chartplotter. So we use Savvy Navvy for passage planning and Navionics for passage making, If Savvy Navvy could make the visuals for depth contours a little more detailed and visually readable (not enough contrast/colour etc) then I reckon we’ll only need one app for the future.
Sounds like you’ve got a great set up & yes I think the next generation will look back and laugh ‘ you did what?!!’ when they find out we have all this tech and some people still chose to draw a line of where they think they are on a piece of paper! I’m looking forward to playing with Savvy Navvy for passage planning.
An excellent well thought out demonstration, Savvy Navvy looks very interesting.
Thanks for the time and effort, and of course the navigational skills, and experience to help us all.
Excellent presentation, I have played with both apps and will use both for comparison.
That was an incredibly helpful video which has pursuaded me to download savy navy ( along with Navionics which I presently have ) - thank you. Henry
Great news Harry, we have added a few new features since this video which you will see in the app and more coming soon.
Simply brilliant summary - thanks
Another great video, very good overview and comparison. Interesting to see how you Navigate. I’m sure we’ll see an update after you’ve used Savvy Navvy in anger. Thanks again
I will have you know I have watched all and I do mean ALL the top youtuber Sailing channels and you're Sailing Vessel, is dare I say the sexiest!
Thanks for this interesting review, and as you said it's always pro and cons with what ever solution you choose. I will indeed have a closer look at Savvy navvy. Cheers.
Great info Steve! I've been struggling with the UI on qtVlm for a year now to get weather routing, Savvy Navvy has at last produced what I wanted with a decent Navionics style UI!!
Great feature on Savey Navvy. thank you.
Good information, thanks. Hope you have a great summer cruising.
Great edit and info
Worth subscribing for this comparison alone - thank you
Liked this, as a novice coastal sailor found the review helpful
Great precise video no waffle, earned a subscribe and will check out your other videos. Cheers guys!
very useful thanks
Excellent. I learned so much today. Thank you!
Nice steady and informative review, just a bit shocked to see the lack of life jackets during that Italy / Croatia crossing? Anycase, we run a Garmin 10" auto routing Nav system which is very powerful but sometimes that's to its determent. With the Garmin we get extremely detailed charts but I can really see the beauty of running the Savvy Navvy alongside, mainly for the tide and wind information. The autoroute facility was something which sold us on the Garmin but in saying that, it can only be used when you are on the boat with a GPS fix. We like to plan our routes in the comfort of our home and then transfer them to the plotter but the autoroute function keep trying to navigate from our home position 120 miles inland. Of course we can create routes with waypoints but with modern electronics it's nice to take away some of the guess work. I suspect we will run Savvy Navvy to see what it thinks and then replicate this on the Garmin and save it as a route, mainly because the Garmin has Nema and a through hull depth sounder, plus the screen is extremely bright. It would be a real bonus if we could create charts on Savvy Navvy and then pump them into the Garmin but I guess that's asking too much. That or Garmin do a firmware update allowing us to create an auto route from any given location.
I’m trying to look at those apps, but all I can see is your lovely boat 😍
Always.!!!!!! Order paper charts online or by package delivery for the trip ahead ,they are updated and ready to use. Simply because one single worst time event,and you are without power ,charts and compass will be left behind ready to use.
As a master mariner in offshore I would give this advice .
Except you will always have your compass, with the right precautions you will never be without power and good luck having charts sent when you are sailing around the world. I just down loaded the whole of the Eastern Med yesterday as it happens, took 10 minutes and cost a total of about £15 on many different systems. Charts would be hundreds of pounds, I would be waiting here in Montenegro for them for weeks and crucially they are nowhere near as good for all the reasons stated in the video!
@@svfairisle in the professional world we always keep training on worst case scenario's that,s why my comments.
love the show and keep posting vids.
Well done. Very informative. Thank you.
I’m satisfied with Weather 4D on Ipad with also Navionics. The 2 systems are complementary
Really helpful - I learnt a lot re the Navionics. thank you
Really helpful. Thanks.
Very informative, I’ve taken a trial with savvy navvy
Another excellent tutorial !
Another great vid. In the States, Sirius Weather provides a weather overlay for Navionics on Raymarine. It is a little pricey with hardware and subscription but it only has to save us once!
Thanx for this review! First several day trip in our lives is coming up (Kefalonia - Malta), so it's a nice "second opinion giver" to see if we don't do stupid things. 😁
Happy greetingz,
Wim
Wonderful vídeo. Congratulations.
Great content as usual, many thanks.
Spot on, Steve - including your comments on redundancy and WWIII fears. I place much more confidence in a handheld GPS, batteries in shrink-wrap, and a fold-up solar charger in the life raft than grabbing a paper chart and pencils on the way out and hoping it will survive the prevailing conditions. Each to his own, but the Luddites do appear to be particularly reactive. And obtuse.
Unfortunately, Mr. Sextant et al still appear to unnecessarily complicate the curriculum for Yacht Masters and other qualifications, putting off many youngsters. This is no doubt a result of the curriculum being set by those of a we-had-to-do-it-and-so-will-you mindset. Morse code, ditto; it should all be the territory of anoraks instead of still being taught in navigation. I find it akin to expecting learner-driver to how to saddle a horse before licensing them to operate a motor vehicle. Just in case, you know!
Ha! Yes as is so often the case tuition will lag behind with its Luddite tendencies and the old salts that just say it’s ‘unseamanlike’ to go to sea without paper charts without understanding the alternatives.
@@svfairisle Ed Zacchery. Human nature, the comfort of the familiar, confirmation bias. I imagine there would have been resistance to the sextant too, when it was a new technology... Oh, the irony! 🙂
Hi Steve,
After carefully reading your reply to the issue of paper charts I will concede to your argument but I also wish to thank you for the demo and analysis you did on these 2 options for electronic navigation. I have been using NV paper Charts and their accompanying (free!) chart plotting software for about 3 years and have been happy with the results per se but the current electronic charts went out of validity last month so I decided to do some research before shelling out to renew the NV set or an alternative. NV seemed a very capable chart plotter in that it has inclusive weather and tidal stream overlays and the Auto-routing function included but after 3 years I had never quite figured out how the Auto-routing worked so I contacted the NV help desk and after much faffing around I was told it was not yet available in UK waters (you have to toggle off Auto and put waypoints in manually).
I have now done a trial of Navionics and Savvy Navvy and the latter seemed like the best fit for me - but wait, I like to do my passage planning on my MacBook (larger screen) and the App on the Mac said I needed the latest M1 processor to use it. I was also unsure of whether my iPad (which does not have a SIM card for mobile signal) would allow GPS tracking. Unfortunately, after 48hrs dialogue with the Helpdesk at Savvy Navvy I was not able to get a definitive answer to these questions so I came back to this video and got contact details for Ben at Pro Marine Store. Ben is an absolute star and seems to know far more about Savvy Navvy than their own Helpdesk! So thanks for the video Steve and a huge vote of confidence and thanks to Ben. I will be spreading his praises and giving him the first call for anything I need for my boat
Great Thanks Garry
Great video Steve very informative, more navigation videos would be amazing:)
Glad you liked it, we’ve had a few sections on navigation in recent episodes as we’re tracking back right through the Med this season & across the Atlantic. I’m putting together a little look at the Orca system that I’m trying out so watch out for that
very informative many thanks
Diversity is useful in many thing, particularly where safety is concerned.
Thanks, I agree with your conclusions, I haven’t dragged my sextant out for years. Have gone completely electronic been using Navionics for some years but thought your review was very informative. SEAiq is another app with similar features that works particularly well in US waters downloading charts and weather data directly from the NOAA website.
We use NOAA data and thats included as part of your global chart, tide and weather pack which is standard Peter. Happy sailing.
Steve another great informative video. (I for one, don’t think “you are dangerous”!!).
I like the idea of using both programs for different situations. I think where this will really be useful is when you are going into a harbor that you have not been before.
I find it interesting that Savvy Navvy (thanks Dave) has left you a comment AND has replied to others comments. Seems like a great company. Time will tell. BUT nothing from Navionics?!
All the best Richard.
Yes Savvy navvy seem to be very on it with help and also with feedback. There's even a button that comes up, bottom right hand corner, to send a message straight to one of their staff if you get stuck. Not sure if that extends to coming out and towing off a sand bank if you get really stuck!... might need the RNLI for that!
@@svfairisle The RYA Planning app can do that. It has its limits tho. Could be operator error but Mine called Clyde Coastguard when I was cycling up Buchanan Street in Glasgow. Will just save up pennies for an EPIRB!
Yes, I found SN responses excellent but Navionics hasn't been the same since Garmin took them over. Silence is the loudest that you hear from them unfortunately
Also got a good deal on Savvy Navvy and really enjoying it
That is good to know Mat! Hope you have a great season.
Thanks for the review. I still use paper charts for my pleasure and an iPad with 2 apps: iNavX with vector Navionics charts and Weather 4D with raster maps from SHOM and UKHO. I use Weather 4D for routing, and export routes to iNavX. You can buy outstanding e-book tutorials by Francis Fustier for both apps in French and in English on Books. In order to increase the battery autonomy of the iPad, I keep the GPS of the iPad on « off » and I use the GPS signal of the AIS by wifi. AIS targets are also uploaded and presented on maps on both apps by wifi. My cockpit is far less protected than yours. My iPad is in a water- and shock-proof case by Andres Industries. The only issue is an insufficient luminosity of the screen in full daylight. You can buy from ITabNav on internet Andres cases as well as adapted sun-shades.
Fair wind!
Philippe (Malango 870 Loarwenn)
All good info, thanks Philippe
We have sailed cross the North sea and in the Baltic sea with only electronic charts. Now we are going to the Med but now we got some old charts that came with boat
Well no harm in having them, see how much you actually use them. I like the large scale ones for thinking about where to go & where we've been, but don't actually plot on them any more.
Really interesting to see how you use electronic navigation apps - amazing how quickly they’re taking over navigation and making built-in options and paper charts less relevant. Thanks!
I tried the free trial of Savvy Navvy and ridiculously it still had lots of essential features locked out so the planning/use trial I wanted to do was impossible to do. Thats like going to do a test drive in a new car but the dealer not letting you leave the car park!! I decided to stick with Navionics.
Hey mark - sorry I just saw this. When you take the trial, you can use Elite so get all the functions. We've also updated many since this demo, so some new and exciting additions - all FOC.
Excellent video, I've also used Neptune Navigations systems for passage planning, it gives me optimal times of departure based on tides and can import wind grip files. Might be interesting to compare in a future video. George.
GPS is good for a basic idea of where you are but my plotter always has me on land when I am nearby. I prefer to rely on visual and paper charts near land and my two phones each with numerous GPS maps (particularly the Russian ones which are difficult to find now). And always place importance on the compass and general heading with mental notes for when veering off and for how long. Even small charts/maps can be effective as long as you can make rough distance calculations to get a general idea. I am leaning more and more away from tech due to all the issues associated with them. However as always multiple (backup) systems is always a benefit.
Must be a problem with your plotter or GPS maps. Modern GPS receivers can have accuracy better than 1m. What setup were you using?
I have a Raymarine plotter. Pretty much every gps device I have has me nowhere as close as you are saying and my gear - phones, tablets, computers are among the best on the market since I use them for work. And what I said about showing me on land is very common. Anyone foolish enough to rely on their GPS to navigate rocks or at night rather than visual deserves their outcome.
@@matjam8305 Interesting. My tablet is nowhere near being best on the market and I generally get accuracy to within 10m once the GPS synchronizes. My friend has an external GPS receiver that he used at work and that was reliably getting a position every second with an error of roughly 30cm. No idea how it did so, but dedicated hardware is dedicated hardware. From what I've seen so far, I would not be surprised if it is the charts that are off. But yeah, GPS is no replacement for a pair of eyes on watch.
The accuracy is much better in urban settings where there are many towers to amplify signals. For instance I can pinpoint myself on my phone to withing 10 meter s (not 1 meter - wasthat a typo?) Sailing along the coast where the coast is steep or there are disturbances (many) often means being off by much larger distances of miles. Why's is this? When sats are high above so the angles off the coast should be nothing. Well let's just say things do not work the way we have been inculcated to believe. Suffice to say there are many things that are not as they really are. Cheers
@@matjam8305 That sounds like your devices are using ground station triangulation instead of actual GPS. If you wanna try figuring it out, I'd try turning off "improve accuracy" (which is what my tablet calls mixing GPS with ground station triangulation), going to airplane mode and/or running some GPS testing apps. Hard to tell what exactly is going on, but GPS should not behave like that at all.
Great intro to both SV and Navionics, Steve - many thanks. I’m curious about the “no charts” strategy, with a bunch of iPads and phones as a replacement. You mention they’re sensitive to heat, water etc. which can be a nuisance, but with the eccentricities of Musk, sabre-rattling by Russia, 3rd World War conspiracies in the background, how reliable are satellites in the near future? Running out of your subscriptions without internet access could be interesting. The “no charts” downsides apply in light aviation as well….
All these platforms work by you downloading the charts so they are stored on the separate devices. If the satellites went down all that would happen is you would loose your little position arrow, ie be the same as a paper chart! If WW3 is starting I think precision navigation would be the least of your worry’s!
While I agree in principle I also know those early experiences using more primitive forms of navigation are essential if Murphy's law rears its head and takes away the electronic solutions.
I have savvy navvy. If you put it on tides, click on your chart, say over an area where the information tells you the lowest mean depth is, say 8 meters; in the diagram to the right that pops up it tells you that at low tide it is 2.3 meters. Also if you click on a tidal river and it says it is -0.6 at lowest tide. when you click on it again the diagram on the side will say 1.4 meters say ?????? If i take what it says then I will run aground or not go particular directions...
Good info, Steve, thank you. Keep them coming ;-) Since I am already here, I am having the hardest time finding the manual for Navionics, the tutorials from various sources I find sorely lacking, maybe I am getting old and dumb. Would you know how to delete a waypoint in Navionics? Or shorten the route you have laboriously prepared by removing the end waypoint? Better yet maybe you could make a video tutorial for Navionics, I find your presentation style very clear, concise and to the point.
Ha! It’s more to do with having nimble fingers than being old and dumb… that’s my excuse anyway! To delete a waypoint (even the end one) just quickly tap on it and a little red box with ‘delete waypoint’ will pop up. If you hold your finger there for more than a split second it won’t work - be quick & nimble, pretend you’re 20 and in a rush!
@@svfairislethank you. It works ! How did you come up with this? It is not particularly intuitive. Especially the speed. Do you have a manual?
@@jarekkanios2697 I don't have a manual no. Every now and then I do come up with something that stumps me and wish there was a good way of sorting out how to make something work, it's where I am with the Orca system that I'm testing at the moment. Luckily I've worked with most other systems long enough to have found all the idiosyncrasies now.
Surprised your not using Aquamaps
Does not matter how many devices you have they all rely on the same GPS satellites always good to make your position on a paper chart as a backup.
Don't quite get your argument there Phil. So lets say in the event some massive global crisis means satellites fall out of the sky or are turned off or something, it would have to kill both the GLONASS and GNSS systems so I think we're talking world war 3, so not knowing exactly where you are might not be your first concern. You would then be left with a chart with no positioning dot i.e. exactly the same as your paper chart, apart from the fact it won't be hopelessly out of date!
Very educational and inspiring. I am going to dive into savvy navvy as well as combining navionics with my onboard raymarine.
Ever tried using a chart in high winds and rain? No, consigned to the saloon table... They both seem invaluable and very effective on a tablet - we're basing out next hardware purchase on these bits of s/ware. So far the Ipad comes out best, and it's got a built in barometer, surprisingly useful. Great reference review, well done. I didn't think Savvy Navvy would run on a laptop... does this require an additional license?
Navionics Boating has a distance and heading tool that I love. I sight an aid to navigation with my compass and get a heading. However if I start to take a second bearing, the first one vanishes. If the app was able to accumulate up to 3 lines at a time, it could be used to get a fix. Sometimes the satellite datum could be off, or the chart can be inaccurate. It's also a way to be sure the object I am looking at is what I think it is. I sent Navionics a suggest that they give it the ability to retain up to 3 lines at a time. Maybe if you like the idea, you could suggest it and they would listen to you more than me.
So I'm not a sail boater, but I actually watched your whole video, and I actually learned a lot I was very interested in the side by side, I didn't want to go out and buy a radar and mapping system that would be very very expensive, so I find that the ipad's and apps side by side work really well, and its cheaper
I am interested in knowing if on the routing will it following you or its just a static map
thank you
and yes I subscribed
Yes all these apps show your current position and follow you just like a GPS in a car. Tablets and phones have very good GPS modules these days so you will always know your position to a couple of meters. The only device I know that doesn’t have built in GPS is WiFi only iPads, ie the ones without a SIM card slot. You don’t have to have a working SIM card it’s just these models don’t have GPS, at least they didn’t used to.
Steve, did you check out Time Zero yet? You should if you haven’t yet.
Savvy Navvy is getting better - but it does have some problems with tidal flow indications - it’s totally wrong in rivers and estuaries and some races don’t yet indicate accurate speeds. Coastal flow is better
Hey David - we know that one of the challenges with a global tidal data set, are local anomalies. So we're now adding local tidal data to supplement and enhance. Thats coming very soon.
Another great video, so I thought I would "help the RUclips Algorithm".. I hope this message does not get truncated!..
I also use electronics (mostly IPad) on our boat, and I have tried lots of software. In particular I wanted to have good tidal planning so I had also tried Savvy Navvy, and it is impressive, - But there are some points I think you could have added, mainly about the pricing structure, and which "level" you were demonstrating. The Tidal Streams for example are only on the most expensive subscription option..
I have a couple of other suggestions for interesting navigation and planning software that you might like to look at:
First is QTVLM (meltemus.com). This is a IOS / windows program that also downloads weather Gribs and displays them very nicely. It can also download Tide gribs (who knew these existed!) and using both can also do routing calculations, although I think this is less easy than Savvy Navvy. But they do have option for multiple routing start times, so you can see how altering the departure will work. Charting on QTVLM - at least in UK for me, comes from a VisitMyHarbour chart pack - very affordable.. You can perhaps add comments on the advantages / disadvantages of owning charts vs downloading and subscriptions!!. QTVLM also has multiple NMEA instrument input/ output options, and overcomes the problem of many of the other apps, in that you can send waypoints back to your autopilot. (Navionics and (I think Savvy navvy?) can see instrument data, but cannot send waypoints back to the boat instruments. - Sending this sort of data back to the boat is very helpful, as you can have a (waterproof and sunlight readable!) repeater showing bearing to waypoint / time to waypoint etc..
You also failed to mention INavx, the granddaddy of the IOS apps. This is so good that it was the main reason I got the Ipad at all. It can do gribs, but for various reasons (mainly I did not want yet another subscription!) , I use weather4D for that. So I cannot comment on its Grib display, but the rest of the interface is superb, and it sends waypoints back to my Raymarine autopilot (and displays AIS) really easily.
Next app I would recommend you look at is Weather4D on the Ipad- this is very nice for reviewing gribs, and the more expensive Weather4D routing and navigation, does routing as well.. An advantage of this app is that it is buy once, and if you can do without the "high resolution grobs"- which need a subscription, then that is the only cost.. The standard GFS gribs are absolutely fine for most purposes!
Lastly, and because you have a PC.. I would wholeheartedly recommend getting a copy of Neptune Navigation's passage planner. I have had one for years, and this single program is the reason i carry a PC tablet as well as the IPad.. I am less concerned about using polars to calculate best course based on gribs, which is what the newer Savvy navvy and QTVLM (and Weather 4D routing ) do.. But Passage Planner does do tidal routing really well. With multiple departure times being able to be calculated at a click, so you can see the effects of leaving later/earlier. A great tool for getting reluctant crew up earlier! I actually have a small thermal printer that I use to print out the (selected departure) passage plan from this program, and we use this printout on passage. Writing the actual time of arrival against each waypoint gives a good estimate of how well we are doing, and gives a fall back if the electronics fail.. getting the cheap thermal printer to work with the PC was quite another matter, but again, this has earned it place onboard. Neptune have a version of the App on Android, but I have not looked at it (no android!).
Looking at my ipad I also have Imray apps, great for showing Admiralty charts, but not as good as InavX for actual use on passage, and also they cannot send the waypoints "back". Navionics is easy to use, but again - it cannot send the waypoints back to the boat..
All the very best
Dagnall
Thanks for that comprehensive breakdown, there’s quite a lot on there I didn’t know about. I will put together a page on the website to try and go through more options and to report how I’m getting on with Savvy Navvy, there’s a limit to how much I can cram into a video before viewers loose the will to live!
Yes I agree! I think you get the right balance of interest and detail..
Unlike my comment, which could have done with a professional editor!!
I would like to hear any comments on inavx if you can get a copy !
Very useful and interesting. I've had trouble with Navvy Savvy on my iPhone, had to get a refund as it would constantly crash. But I would really like to like it.
Sorry to hear that Simon. If you message me - david@savvy-navvy.com I'll look at that issue for you.
@@savvynavvy Thanks, I've already got a refund on my Elite yearly subscription and can no longer test it. But it would constantly reload or show error messages on my iPhone 11 which otherwise has no issues and sufficient memory.
@@simons780 I can reinstate a trial for you so you can see if we've ironed out any bugs and also test out the new features Simon? Here if you need us. David
Aah, try an Android phone (and tablet) Solves most problems and far less expensive. :)
I really enjoy your Technical Corner features, keep them coming please! I am about to buy an ipad for putting my electronic charts on, what specification would you suggest, as there are loads of different ipads? Which one do you use?
We have an older iPad Pro and an iPad air. I fancy the larger new iPad pro, bloody expensive though!Just make sure you get one with built in GPS, the non sim versions don't have it (or they didn't that might have changed)
@@svfairisle a workaround I've used to get GPS to non-sim iPads, is a GPS dongle that plugs in apple charge/ data port, (Lightning, USB C). Bad Elf is model I've used, allows charge cable connection pass- through.
Only Savvy Navvy is available on Android. I have iPad _ Google Pixel phone.
Thank you for this comparison. I tried SavvyNavvy on a 360 nm non stop around Seeland DK. It‘s a pity that SavvyNavvy doesn’t allow AIS overlay, but they say this is coming. Much more annoying is that SavvyNavvy wouldn’t accept a route under the Great Belt bridge, apparently thinking that this is a land barrier, suggesting a detour of 124 nm around Odense, I.e. a Full day of sailing! I understand that this is a new system, and I very much like the idea of a weather overlay, but shouldn’t the map material be ok? Maybe I made a mistake? Will see.
I chatted with Kevin at SavvyNavvy, they actually say on their website, that Denmark is not covered with high res maps. There is an issue with the Danish government or so. So it’s actually more my fault, not looking which regions they cover.
Ah yes thats right, they're waiting for Portugal too.
What happens if the GPS goes down?
Well then there’s probably a 3rd world war so who cares! No seriously about the only thing that could knock out all three GPS world systems would be a huge solar flare but think about it you’re still better off than paper charts ( they never give a position fix) and you still have perfectly good vector charts with all the detail.
I know this is an old video, but I would be curious to know, 3 years on, which one you use most of the time?
At the moment I use Navionics and Orca. To be honest I haven’t renewed my membership to Savvy Navvy because I’ve been testing lots of other systems. There will be a review of Orca, that I’ve been using for a year now coming out on Saturday, it has some advantages ( and some things it’s not so good at!)
@@svfairisle Thanks for replying. I was signed up for a test sail with the Orca people a couple of years ago. I cancelled it, but I see they have a free app out. I also use navionics but am trialling lots of other apps too.
Thanks for putting this together for savvy navvy plus Navionics, would Samsung a7 with 4g be sufficient for those apps.
I am not necessarily convinced regarding your arguments given as to the value or lack of value in paper charts. From my experience they still have value and provide a backup should one’s electronic systems nav systems fail. For one thing by regularly plotting your course on a paper chart as you go, via readout data (lat/longs) from your gps, one has an invaluable record as to your position which when coupled with dead reckoning will give you a fairly accurate position at any point in time, should you require it. It’s also useful as a reference in fog conditions, and even more so if you don’t have radar.
I can’t say I have heard of Savvy Navvy but for sure use Navionics, on the boat’s chart plotter and via use of a dongle like Bad Elf to the iPad, plus ph. Open CPN is also from what I gather yet another excellent system. I very much like to have a chartplotter/IPad in the cockpit as it’s invaluable when coming into anchorage’s re depth contours, bottom substrate (via fish finder) plus info on any hazards, rocks/ reefs etc to be aware of.
As to weather info while there are a myriad of weather forecasting apps eg. Windy, Willy Weather etc, from again my experience your probably best off using PredictWind in combination with an IridiumGo. Personally, you can’t beat it as to its accuracy, and it provides data for up to 7 days in advance. The proviso being that after 3-4 days the accuracy does diminish to an extent
I'm going to start with the last thing you said because I agree entirely that Predict wind is one of the best apps out there. In fact I see they've added a couple of extra models over the winter SPIRE, AROME and UKMO so it will be interesting to see how they work out. Of course the down side to having many predictions is that, human nature being what it is, if you really want to set off on a passage you tend to believe the most favourable prediction to be the one you're going to get, which can be a mistake!
It remains to be seen what the Savvy Navvy predictions are like, but if they're good it may be a good addition having them incorporated in the plotter app as the computer will do a better job than you will of working out things like routing and time of departure, unless you're willing to spend a lot of time working it out.
The thing I really don't agree on is the relative usefulness of having a Lat/Long in your log book or whatever as an aid for fog etc. There simply isn't a comparison to having a position noted every hour in a log book to having a route trail on a plotter that tells you exactly where you've been as well as where you are right now. In a man overboard situation or in fog electronics are not just a different league they're a different game entirely. The argument electronics might fail just doesn't hold if you have proper redundancy and there would be far more chance of someone relying on charts loosing one overboard than me loosing all six independent methods of electronic navigation.
I've been stranded in fog three times over the years, once in the days before GPS which was truly terrifying, but fortunately the skipper managed to find shallow enough water to drop anchor so we could sit it out. Once in a helicopter over Nova Scotia and the pilot immediately landed on the ice saying it's far to easy to get disorientated even with electronics, and once at sea with a plotter (but no radar) when there was zero problem because we always knew where we were and were able to get to a safe area and anchor as without radar it was too dangerous to continue. On that occasion we had to round a headland to get to a safe area and I'm pretty sure that although we had three good sailors on board we would have come to grief if we were relying on charts. We were dead reckoning and steering a compass course on a chart ( early days of GPS so it was deemed secondary) and the GPS disagreed with we thought we were. Thankfully we went with the GPS which was spot on, the odd eddies in the tide around the headland obviously veered us in a way we couldn't have known and is impossible to tell in fog, pretty much all spacial awareness goes in fog & hell we don't even have RDF to help now. So I would say anyone that says you can work out where you are on a chart in the fog is deluded!
Great information and clearly explained. What brand of fleece is the ‘Norwegian ‘ Brx technology . It looks very comfy.
Tim Oldman
Yes it's really nice actually, it's just something I found when we went up to Lake Garda. The make is Scuola Nautica Italiana
We have found the sonar charts on Navionics to be pritty useless, when you have a rise of tide of say 3m then its the green drying bits that are of interest, I know I have enough depth on any blue bits of the chart (it must be over 3m) but the drying areas may or may not be deep enough to cross. Navionics remove all the data from the green areas when you switch to sonar charts!
Yes stuff above chart datum isn't surveyed properly anywhere, to be fare it can't be really.. But I disagree completely about Navionics I've found their sonar charts to be really excellent.
@@svfairisle It was great video and good to hear the comparisons. We tend to sail around the south coats of England and north Brittany, many of the entrances to the harbours in Brittany are over the green bits of the chart with tidal access and that’s the bit that concerns me.
If we are in 5m or 7m doesn't really matter but 1.5m or 2.5m makes all the difference!
We upload our sonar data with the download/uploads and I had hoped it would get added, even if it doesn’t it would be good if they didn’t remove all the spot hights from the charts (they are present on the standard navigation charts just not the sonar charts).
The med is far less tidal and probably not significant for you at present but entering somewhere like Binic where the last mile is all over drying (green) chart it really would be helpful, the sonar chart just shows a big green area with no data at all, at least the standard chart shows 4.2m drying and the probably line of the river bed.
Thanks for producing such profeshional and interesting videos.
Yes I feel your pain. I spent many years a s a teenager sailing with my father in a bilge keeler on the East coast. It was great playing in the shallows knowing you cant really come to grief but bloody difficult to not get caught out. We still push our luck a bit with Fair Isle in the tides and have grounded many times, but always in soft stuff and on a rising tide, I don't take risks otherwise. It does pay to have an encapsulated keel and keel hung rudder though, a boat with twin rudders touched the bottom of the Chichester marina lock on the way though as we have done many times and lost all steering. You don't want to play games with fragile boats!
Great info, thanks, I am just now in the process of trying to decide what I should do for a second chart plotter and this help immensely.
Say, do you have recommendations on dinghy? Alum Keel/Inflatable Keel/FG Keel......Hypalon/PVC......High Pressure Floor/Solid Floor???
Have a look at the video we did on our Truekit dinghy. This is the best I think in the lightweight range, it goes into materials & things
Steve I have RE-watched this episode again as my torn between Navionics & Savvy Navvy.
What are your thoughts as you have used them for awhile now?
All the best Richard.
I still use Navionics over Savvy Navvy but that may be just because I’m more used to it. I definitely prefer it’s charts for depth. Having said that being in the Med at the moment with no tide means I don’t use that function on SN maybe if I did need it I’d prefer SN? I don’t find the wind forecasts accurate enough to make the routing that useful, but again the Med has too much local weather to rely on forecasts
I would put money on this guy is ex merchant navy
Am I wrong, but with paper charts and a sextant, don't you have to have the most current (annual) reduction tables for accuracy, so it's not only charts you have to carry, but pages and pages of the most recent almanac? Which at first I thought, well, just download those to a laptop, but then that defeats the purpose of a no electronic solution doesn't it?
So, a year on, what are your thoughts on Savvy Navvy?
I like it as a back up ? second opinion, but I still use Navionics as my primary. Thats mainly because I like the depth charts on Navionics. I will give it a proper go at the start of the season though as they are all changing.
At around 7:25 you mentioned that the level of depth details in SN is not on par compared to navionics, is that something you have noticed everywhere ? How problematic is that ?
yes seems to be. Navionics have good depth information anyway, but they also have information brought in from users from on board depth sounders, you can switch between the modes. I find this very useful. I haven't compared them outside of Europe yet though I'm just assuming it's similar elsewhere.
I use iSailor
I looked into them when we did a shake down cruise in the Channel Islands but they didn’t have tidal info, which as you know is very important there! Not sure if they have live tidal data now?
@@svfairisle Tides & Currents is a subscription option (1 year for less than €10). Same as Weather Service and Sailing Guides.
Hi Steve, is there an option to upload your Savvy Navvy route to your Navionics system for auto pilot etc? Cheers... Great content by the way, how things have changed over the years...
No doesn't work with auto pilot, I suppose some motor boaters might want that, but I can't see it being of much use on a yacht?
At the moment we have paper charts and a ray marine c70 plotter fixed at the helm planning to get a iPad ( yes we don’t own a iPad) will the iPad we buy need cellular to work Savi nav ?
Yes only the cellular ones have the GPS chip (or they did, may have changed in the last year but I don't think so) You don't need to have a sim card in it for it to work though, it uses no data for GPS.
The storage behind your cockpit is it something you purchased and put there? If so where did you get it from?
No all Hans Christians have the teak boxes from new. They're all different as you could specify amount size shape etc. We have extra
Not sure if this is a stupid question but can't you just download the predict wind GRIB file and view it offline instead of taking screenshots?
Yes you could do that, obviously both ways once off shore you'll be working with old forecasts. I usually only resort to the grib files if I'm trying to update a weather forecast while sailing and I'm only getting a weak slow signal.
Excelent video but can you acess Galileo with ipad or only gps?
Yes modern iPads and every iPhone since iPhone 8 has the ability to access Galileo GPS. The weird thing is Galileo was/is blocked in the US. Weirder still the US allows GLONASS gps ( the Russian signal) that was the case a few years ago anyway, they may have sorted it now. Galileo should give greater accuracy, but other systems are still down to less than a meter so for yacht navigation it’s not a big deal.
Being that you are familiar with the EU VAT. I am wondering what the rules are for a non EU boat and non EU resident as far as having to pay the VAT? Lets suppose its an American registered boat owned by a Canadian couple who would like to sail in the Med. for extended periods?
I think 18 months is the limit for everyone outside the EU. I know it's rarely implemented though, big risk with an expensive boat though!
@@svfairisle What if a Canadian buys a boat within the EU say France (I like the Bali line)
Hey Steve. Can you tell me, what are the pink shaded areas in sn? Good vid, thanks!
Pink shaded area? The only thing I can think of thats usually pink are the shipping lanes, where did you see this?
@@svfairisle 4:55 yes. must be shipping lanes. Thanks 🙏
Arh yes, got you now. They are shipping lanes but the pink shaded areas are the no man’s land between the actual lanes. You should start lining up when you get to them to cross properly. If you’re crossing the lanes you should do so at 90 degrees although your track can be skewed by the current (the quickest way across is aiming the boat straight across and letting the tide take you off line, not trying to make your COG exactly perpendicular.
What plan of Savey Navvy were you using, they have three options?
I have the Elite version, got a good discount for it through Pro Marine Store
Are you still in Italy? I am still stuck in Sicily as it's still Orange zone. Hoping i don't get in trouble when i try to leave..
We are sailing, but still on Italy, we will cross to Croatia as soon as we have decent wind. We have overrun our Schengen time but frankly we are just going to go and sort it out in Croatia, I’m not sure if they’ll care about the Schengen thing & they just want a test on arrival or a vaccination cert. so hopefully it will be okay. Where are you headed from Sicily?
@@svfairisle hoping to head to Albania or Maybe croatia from Brindisi. Did try set off the other day had covid tests and got a green pass but had a blow out that caused some damage to camper and had to get new tyres. By the time I had it all sorted the green pass had ran out. Hoping Sicily will change yellow on Monday so will try again then... Looking forward to more sailing videos! Want to try sailing but get sea sick really bad..
Excellent presentation Steve🙏 Thank you.
My wife wishes to learn the sexton. Can it be used on electronic charts? I hate to get paper charts just because she has a sexton.
You need paper charts I’m afraid. A sextant shot just gives you a line not a direct position. So for instance the ‘noon shot’ which is the easiest one to do charting the sun at celestial noon will give you a line of latitude. If all you’re going to do check your latitude on a long passage then I suppose you could just look at it on the plotter, but it will kill the fun as the plotter will know exactly what latitude your at! ( still good to test how accurate your sextant shots are though ) With a chart you can do the whole thing properly by bring the line forward by dead reckoning then do star shots to by bisecting lines and you ‘cocked hat’ which shows your somewhere within the cocked hat. Then your trying to get that cocked hat as small as possible with further shots but to be honest until you get very good at it the only time you manage to bring the cock hat down to a size less than a couple of square miles is by bearings from points on land or more usefully in the old days using an RF direction finder but unfortunately they aren’t transmitted any more.
Where did you get your iPad mount? That looks great
Amazon. I think the one I had when I did that video was the old one which was okay, but the base was metal and rusted, this one is better, still Amazon... www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09XM9KRRT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
@@svfairisle Thank you. I really love your videos. I have a Hans Christian 43T ketch. Have you done an instructional video on spinnakers? I need to learn
@@terryluck3 Well congratulations on your good taste! At the moment we don’t have any coloured sails. With heavy boats like ours that’s going to be a big sail short handed and in the Med with the sort of quick wind changes you get you’ve got to be on your game. We did mean to get one before we crossed the Atlantic but I have to say we wouldn’t have used it as it blew more than 20 knots for the whole crossing and pretty much every day since!
@@svfairisle My drifter is very productive and easy to handle
@@terryluck3 what is it? Any pictures?
Great video thx. What is the iPad bracket you use in the dog house? Ive been scouring the net for a decent one and that looks good!
I got it off Amazon, I see if I can find a link when we get back onboard, but it’s a desk stand really, I had to drill some holes in it to mount it. Lasted much better that the plastic ones we’ve had before though.
@@svfairisle that’s my experience so many “brittle” mounts. On the market. 🙏🏻
@@sailingcalmedbythesea7495 yes a couple of months in the sun & theyre done
whats the make of the pad holder please?
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06XVFKYL5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Thank you i take it you through drilled and screwed it?
Yes, the base is quite heavy metal, you need some decent screws.
Have iPad changed there GPS, it was only the up an with a SIM card holder that had independent GPS
The WiFi only version didn't have this , you didn't have to have a SIM in ,
Yes you need an 3G iPad (i.e.one that takes a sim card) but you dont need one in. It's just that the sim card versions also have GPS. If you have a none 3G iPad then you could still use a GPS puck like I have for the laptops.
@@svfairisle yes I have a Bluetooth GPS, that costs the difference of buying the SIM iPad.
I learnt the hard way , changed over to Samsung,
@@davidwarnes5158 I'm with you. One could be forgiven for thinking that this was an Apple Forum. Don't people research before buying? :)
@@briangilliland3620 I fell for this , i learnt the hard way , I read it has GPS, so ok, then I had to dig deeper and found out , a Bluetooth GPS was reqd , so ended up the same price
But less efficient.
For the last 6 years I have worked with the Samsung tablets, and phone , cost effective as can have 2 for a ipad price . Backup.
Sleep mode battery lasts for a very long time . But I have learnt with al, of them including ipad , battery life span reduces if you charge 2hile the unit is turned on.
So I always turn off to charge , so having 2 units is amazing .
What GPS mouse do you use?
It a Garmin
@@svfairisle Which Garmin, Steve?
Aqua Maps is so much better then navionics.
I'll have a look
NEVER sail or fly off the paper!!
Does your insurance company know you don’t carry paper charts? Have you checked admiralty law?
I’m sure insurance companies will start asking and charging a premium for people who don’t carry accurate positioning & continue to rely on outdated tech.
@@svfairisle A paper chart and good seamanship saved my life and that of three others... fifteen years ago I was onboard a yacht which struck a container three days sail from arriving in the Caribbean, Antigua to be specific. Whilst the captain had all the latest tech he insisted on paper chart backup and the taking of our position the whole way across the Atlantic. When the yacht struck the container it was a matter of 10 minutes before the boat sunk... it happened that quick. We had enough time to launch the liferaft, sailing dingy and throw the grab bags into the boats and picked up the chart off the chart table. The grab bag contained a handheld GPS which gave us the ability to plot our lat and long on the paper chart and then turn the device off to conserve power. We arrived in Antigua 10 days later exhausted but alive unassisted but for the last few miles when we used the hand held VHF to call for assistance. A combination of modern tech with low power consumption, paper chart and solid seamanship saw us come out of the situation bruised, shaken but alive...
That's a great story but doesn't actually mean anything at all here I would say. I mean really the thing of most use in that situation would be a compass. Quite often in a real emergency the only thing that gets taken is the grab bag. Who has a spare chart for the right area always in there? Well I do because I have an ipad, an iphone and a battery pack (with solar) when off shore, because they fit! Times have moved on my friend!!
@@svfairisle What an interesting reaction to an experience I will most certainly never forget, I realise since this is just a youtube comment section, you'll understand I have recalled the events in short form, but to suggest it's simply 'a great story that doesn't really mean anything here', demonstrates either your ignorance of never having experienced anything of this nature or hubris that this'll never happen to you.
In a real emergency, you won't think, you will either freeze or react. The sailing dingy was on davits and the grab bags were already in the dingy that's where they were stored, the life raft was on the transom, all we did was react. There are several charts to cross the Atlantic and the chart we grabbed was the chart in use, there was no lucky spare chart.
No, a compass would not have been the most useful thing in this circumstance, deploying the EPIRB would have been, but the boat sank so fast no one had time to deploy it. There was a compass in the grab bag and pencils to plot our position. There were many items in the grab bags; food, water, sunscreen (although we all suffered from heat stroke and sunburns), wet wipes (to clean the salt off your skin to minimise sores) and much more.
I can tell you from experience how wet and uncomfortable spending time in a life raft is, your gadgets won't last twenty-four hours in that environment. We abandoned towing the life raft after four days and relied solely on the dingy. However, four grown men in a twelve-foot sailing dingy is wet and uncomfortable, you will be bailing out water constantly, it is exhausting. You think the seas are big in your boat? wait until you're in an ocean swell in a twelve-foot dingy.
I don't share my experience to brag, I share it as a warning... It was a frightening experience and that paper chart gave us the opportunity to save our lives.
I don't doubt your experience and the fact you managed to navigate to safety using a chart, well done. All I'm saying is that there are now better methods. The idea that the thing to take with you is a piece of paper rather than something that tells you exactly where you are (yes you need to have it in a waterproof case and you need the battery pack, but they're small) it's ridiculous.
As for my ignorance of these situations, well I've spent 50 years sailing, with and without GPS and 35 years as a journalist covering wars in the Middle East, Balkans, Africa so I've experienced a few things.