Cards So Mean We Took Them Out of Our Decks | Commander Clash Podcast 147
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- Опубликовано: 3 июн 2024
- These cards were so mean that we had to take them out of our decks!
Here's the Reddit thread we're reacting to: / whats_a_card_so_mean_t...
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#MTG #MagicTheGathering #Commander #commanderclash
0:00 intro
3:14 Aura Shards
7:09 Annihilator creatures
10:31 Pyromancer’s Swath
13:47 Dockside Extortionist
17:21 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
22:25 Cathars’ Crusade
26:10 Mindslaver and Mindcrank
34:14 Free counter spells
39:03 Duress
43:43 Restore Balance
47:26 Aetherflux Reservoir
49:45 Notion Thief
52:30 Kenrith’s Transformation (and friends)
56:19 Death Cloud
59:37 Stoneskin
1:01:16 Outro 
Игры
Richard and Seth not understanding the comment from last week, despite it being the crux of like 50% of their arguments against any given card/strategy on this podcast, is as close to peak comedy as we have ever gotten.
I desperately want this to be next week's top comment
Top comment top comment
On the off chance one of the crew see this and still don't get what we mean: the original comment was talking about Richard and Seth's tendency to assume that playing any kind of disruptive effect - even extremely mild ones - will immediately make you archenemy. The most egregious example of this recently was of their evaluation of High Noon (the two mana rule of law that you can cash in later as removal) in the OTJ card review episode. The were talking about having to fight off 3 draw steps and 3 combat phases, ie the entire table dropping everything and leveraging all of their resources to spite you for the great crime of playing a rule of law.
This line of reasoning is particularly common from Richard I feel, to the point that if I were to make a bingo card for a commander clash card review episode I would put "Richard saying some completely mediocre card is actually trash because 'it will cause everyone to gang up and stop you'" as one of the boxes.
@@manglemonster don't forget the what if they have the perfect counter for this card or strategy they both love that argument as well.
They will read this comment, still not get it and not open this thread to see the follow up explain the context.
Then say maybe by next week the comment will make sense to them and move right along
I'll never forget Crim at commandfest flashing in a notion thief responding to a raffine connive, effectively discarding my hand while he drew 4 cards. Damn you!
Crim: "Winter Orb and Stasis aren't mean!"
*player casts Open the Way*
Crim: "I CAN'T PLAY THE GAME!!"
Got em
He fried his brain on anime
You can remove Orb and Stasis way easier then you can punish ramp strategies
Crim’s “counterspells are cEDH” voice is just Professor Frink 😂
Crew: it's too mean to casually slap other players.
Crim: is it though? It's just part of the game!
Yeah Crim saying his goal is to ruin or "shut down" everyone's game hits it on the head
we need more crims and less whiney people who hate being interacted with.
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 crim is actually my favorite member of the crew. His philosophy mismatch always cracks me up though
Crim's style isnt a problem though, the problem is often players acting like they aren't playing hard core control, and low roll their deck power when they sit down and then everyone gets mad when they play things like Stasis and free counters. Crim is up front about what he's about. he doesn't lie about what he's gonna do. A lot players that want to be like Crim do so while not being honest about what they are doing
Crim is genuinely an enigma to me sometimes lmao
That's because he's good
Yeah, I do not understand any of his opinions.
"Locking a player out of the game is not mean."
?????
@@jameslamb4846 he is not good and admits it but let's face it most people don't watch commander shows to watch people be pros
I think last week's comment of the week is regarding the philosophy that Richard sometimes states about a card that seems like it could be good, like Winter Moon or that blue extra land drop hate card, that if you play those cards, players will just automatically ignore everything else and just kill you for it.
What’s the especially maddening is how easy it is to counteract that argument as well. If this sort of stuff becomes baseline, like crime suggest, you can’t just focus all three people exclusively.
You guys should do a video going through every irl deck you each currently have.
Edit:Maybe everyone’s top 3 irl decks
Or they could each do their top 3 to play
didn't Crim mention at some point that he has ~30 or so decks which are all variations of UBx..? that would be a looooong video :D
Yeah I’d love a breakdown of Richards birds
@BingbongRecto definitely. I have always wondered what birds looked like now
I want to see all decks
I love Crims voice this cast. "BUT CRIM YOU PLAY CENSOR AND FORCE SPIKE THATS CEDH!?"
Much respect to the goldfish crew for consistently putting out quality content
Thanks :)
rebuttal to Crim on the free counters: we have a guy in my home casual play group that plays Tatyova Landfall stuff, and it is essentially a combo deck. We try to interreact and stop the snowball, and it never matters if they tap out because he always has the freebies. free spells are, were and always will be a mistake and i wish WotC would stop making them
either that persons deck is too strong for your table or it is fine.
"mistakes" are relvative to competitive play.
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 i dont disagree that its too powerful for our table, your statement isnt a rebuttal but supporting my argument because i'm saying that "free cards" cards that subvert the basic resource managment balance of the game are a problem. it's literally the same problem colorless artifacts have had historically and why most good artifacts these days are now colored, because Design afer several stumbles realized that subverting the resource restrictions of color and cost breaks the game balance
It wasn't just land destruction but also saying "blind obedience would be better if it just extorted because the etb tapped gets you killed" or "descent into Avernus is stax" or like, most preview cards in other casts.
"YOu play Dockside and you did nothing." uh I worked 5 hours at work to afford it...
I’ve gone the other way. The value creep is so high it feels “excusable” to play “mean” cards somewhat more often. Shoutout to Contamination and Blood Moon
Blood Moon isn't even mean. Commander players often confuse things being FAIR for things being mean. As someone who is the greediest person alive and always doubles down in games, I also believe that if you get greedy and get punished, you deserved it. PSA to everyone - Play more basics. 10 minimum.
I plan to add Blood Moon to my Ojer Axonil deck - all basics plus a myriad landscape.
The deck can already win on turn 6 easily though so idk if blood moon is even necessary except as a backup.
@@nickel-bolas951blood moon is definitely a mean card. Quite literally a prison piece like winter moon, contamination or back to basics is.
@@yoyoguy1st no card is mean. its a card.
Neither of those are mean. Punishing, yes. Neither are unlikely to entirely shut down one person while leaving other players unaffected, and presumably you have built your deck to function with them on the board, so they just get you ahead like thousands of other cards will.
Crim doesn't think anything is mean because he plays so much magic that being shut out of one game isn't a big percentage of his playtime.
Thats not true, he thinks dockside is mean for letting people play the game.
That's an interesting thought of magic playtime. I don't get that many games in a week or month. Maybe 2-3 a week if I'm lucky.
He thinks Green cards are mean
magic isnt solitaire - the interaction between decks is what makes the game fun. Having one person power their way to such a commanding board state that there's no real way to interact with it isnt fun for other people either. A lot of the stuff that people call mean is necessary so that other's can play the game too. And from the caster's perspective, it's not "can i play card" it's "can i play X card while people are trying to stop me from doing so" that's the actual game.
@@shonmatthewhe thinks dockside is mean because the card is too good and he thinks it should be banned. What are you even on about lmao
The card: destroys one persons lands, makes them unable to play lands or spells for the rest of the game, phases everything they own out, freezes their bank account and lets you slap them in the face each end step.
Crim: That is NOT a mean card?!?! Is that mean?!?? It's just funny dude!
Honestly in Zevlor this does sound kinda hilarious if it has a singular target.
Ok but depending how expensive the card is that is pretty funny. If someone dropped an uncard on me like that I'd laugh my ass off
@@zweis You sir are a man of culture. Welcome aboard.
The card needs to have a better split second where people are not allowed to concede in reaction or after the card to be mean.
Crim’s act is so tired. I can’t believe they let him stick around. He adds nothing to the conversation.
Annihilator and by extension edict effects feel like a mechanic that gets weaker every set. There's so many treasures and cards that make tokens that decks have an ever increasing pool of expendable fodder to feed to sacrifice effects.
Sheoldred's Edict is the counter-exemple, but I did sacrifice 5 treasures to Phyrexian Obliterator once
Annihilator, I agree. But regarding Edicts in general, I'd say it's opposite now that we have Ward on everything. My Crackling Doom is more consistent against things like Voja Tivit or Miirym than any spot removal could
@@TheSmartCinema The only thing ward did was making me put more board wipes on my deck
I played my colorless deck last night, and people played as though they were scared of the Titans. I finally landed and attacked with a Titan (thanks to haste from boots). The Titan died before my next turn, and the player I attacked with annihilator went on to win 3 turns later.
Somehow the mind slaver conversation was completely about whether it is very powerful, and not about the fact that one player doesn’t get to play magic for at LEAST 20 minutes. That can be a bit mean 😁!
Urabrask is the best of the original preators because it's the only one that doesn't cause the entire table to look at you
It's also WAAAY stronger than people realize.. people act like it's bad compared to the rest but what they don't look at is the CMC differences. He gets to do a lot at a relatively low cost, you also get to influence how combat works way better than people realize. Firkraag for example loves Urabrask since it means flying answers become your pawns and due to being goaded they can't block you on later turns either.
He also is just a value enabler for whatever strategy he's a part of, versus the others which are mostly hyper-pushed goodstuff. Urabrask kills people. The other 4 just get people killed.
@@nykthosacolyte5710 White has several cards for 1 or 2 mana that make your opponent's creatures enter tapped. Paying 5 mana for Urabrask isn't great
@@laytonjr6601 that's white though, white doesn't have haste as a normal thing. The two together is what makes him great.
I thought for sure Crim would say Rampant Growth.
I stopped playing Cathar’s Crusade until I saw someone just track every time it triggered on the enchantment itself, and then note what count Cathar’s Crusade was on when a given set of creatures entered together.
It turned the work from updating X creature counts individually, to always updating just two sets of counters: one for the set of creatures that came in, and then another to update the global CC count, and it was simple subtraction to figure out a given creatures power.
That’s actually a pretty good way to do it. Unfortunately it probably won’t work with the deck I run it. In oketra she makes a token on each creature cast and then when the actual creature etb’s. So they aren’t uniform. I have definitely thought about cutting the card because it’s a mess.
@25:25 "Newsflash, Beregonds not my favorite deck anymore before of this." Would love to have an episode of the podcast talking about yalls favorite decks! Crim and Tomer are pretty open about what they have/play but Richard and Seth are much quieter about it besides birds and panharmonicon decks 🤠
Also would love an episode of Clash with no ramp at all and see how the game and decks play out! I'm sure Crim would agree to this 😂
I’m convinced if Crim saw a card that makes a player skip all their turns for the rest of the game would be incredulous that people are calling it mean
Crim on a podcast about mean cards? Cool, can't wait to hear about how every card is fair, balanced, not mean at all and how there should be MORE of them as well
He’s right too much crying from you guys
"Do whatever you want to me, just don't get a lot of mana" - Crim, apparently
The biggest problem with Aura Shards is that there are exactly TWO colors that can really deal with enchantments. If that ability was stapled onto a creature, it wouldn't be NEARLY as much of a problem.
I've been putting the mean cards back in!
You should. Don’t feel bad for playing good cards!
I started playing too nice now I'm getting curbstomped
I run a mono-blue Aura deck and I give zero fs about how cruel it can be.
@@chickenwyngs3646 Big same. I came back to the game, and after reading a number of reddit threads and hearing a bunch of videos talk about how careful you need to be to preserve others fun.....
I got curbstomped several games in a row, after my deck accomplished almost literally nothing.
No, I think I'll be the jerk for a little while. Hold this arcum daggsun.
Richard: [walks away]
The rest of the crew: Internet issues!
Aura shards just needed to remove the word "may" and it would've been fine. Eventually it would have to remove itself
No it's fine how it is. It is in a few of my decks... Like Teeg or Maja XD Also if you remove the may you just target an indestructible one you have.
@nykthosacolyte5710 if you include an indestructible artifact in your deck to build around your aura shards, that sounds like fair game to me. But when it's alone on the battlefield, I feel like it should've destroyed itself
@@michaelcollins4534 moreso the fun toys already available stuffy doll, mithril coat, the one ring, etc
In my opinion, Oubliette is only mean to the mono-red or the mono-black player. At best, they have 1 card in their entire deck that can get rid of it.
thats right, no Oubliette on Rakdos please 🙏 gotta hold that Feed the Swarm till I get hit with it.
I would do unspeakable things to get a Thoughtseize that hits each opponent. Targeted discard is a big element of black's color identity in 1v1, and it's completely missing from EDH. It's how black is supposed to deal with artifacts, enchantments, counterspells, and combos in general.
There are combos with Mindslaver that will allow a lock on all players. For instance, Daretti's Emblem returns it to play at the end of each turn. With Unwinding Clock out and some mana rocks, you basically guarantee a lock on every olayer.
I've had 5+ of my turns taken by a Kethis, the Hidden Hand deck, basically an a+b 😂
Tbf 9 out of 10 times the game is over if Daretti gets to his ult, one way or another.
Yeah, that's true, although if you manage to ultimate a planeswalker (especially without something like Doubling Season) you probably deserve to win.
@@MTGGoldfish my Deretti deck frequently gets it ultimate.
With the amount of removal and creatures decks have nowadays no pw lives long enough to ult
For Crim "mean" means cards that don't force players to play magic as Richard Garfield intended. Essentially breaking the mana system is mean, but land destruction, hand destruction, stax, or any other strategy to control an opponent's resources is just a valid approach. It's not an unreasonable position.
Richard Garfield added Sol Ring, Moxes, Lotus and Dark Ritual into the first several editions of the game. I think he was fine with fast mana.
It's not unreasonable... It's arbitrary. He has decided that the game is a Bible and Richard Garfield is God so Crim's only requirement is that it must be spoken by Richard Garfield. That is no different than saying "I consider mean all cards that start with an S", you just picked an arbitrary quality.
@@zotha Garfield's intentions for what is fair game, or what should be an obstacle, and ability to actually balance the game aren't necessarily the same thing. In other words sol ring was off the mark for general balance but artifact ramp isn't itself a problem.
Instead it's about what is fair in the game. Are lands, hands, etc...meant to be as valid of targets as creatures and artifacts? Many EDH players don't agree, and that has consequences. Beyond just what is fair game, what is a fair obstacle to expect?
Really dockside in cEDH is arguably better than Sol Ring, and really isn't really any worse in casual as often is claimed. Sure you'll have to wait a few more turns to get game ending mana from it, but in casual the other decks aren't threatening you in those turns.
The biggest thing is when dockside's trigger resolves you get to not only break the innate pace of development, but the mana requirements of the color wheel in general. Fetch lands already have massively reduced this aspect of the game, but treasure tokens completely trivialize it. That's really where the magic as Richard Garfield intended jumps from being just a meme to having some truth to it.
@@pascalsimioli6777”but how can THIS card be mean when people RAMP!!! People ramp and draw cards in commander! Can you believe them?!?! I need to play a deck full of cards that make sure the game lasts for 3 hours! It is the only good way to play magic” I honestly find his take on cards and this format nauseating.
Vorinclex is also answered by floating the mana before it drops and then using your removal if the removal is instant speed, so it won't even lock any lands.
I thought the answer was just a clone
Regarding how long it would take to Thoughtseize three players: this already happens when someone draws a reanimate spell and has to check everybody's graveyard like twice a turn until they cast it.
It's even quicker, just flash me your hand and I'll find the threat. Checking graveyards for Living Death and resolving it can take a while
"What's mean is playing the game."
The truest statement about EDH.
Cathar's Crusade was in my Trelassara life gain deck and between that Archangel of Thune, Sovereign Okinec Ahau, and making angels every turn or other token triggers like Darien King of Kjeldor I retired the deck. Elder Gargaroth's on attack trigger or my 15 "gain one life whenever anything ETBs" effects all just resulted in me placing counters for literally any action. It got to the point where I brought a box of 20's and my Bag of Devouring dice any time I played.
I agree with Tomer, this is note taking time right? I love these inspirational videos.
56:00 If you get Kenrith's Transformation, there's at least ways to try and get it killed. but if you're outside of green and/or white? The odds you can actually get rid of oubliette drastically dwindle. You sit there with no answers. IF you're in the colors to get rid of enchantments? RUN ENCHANTMENT REMOVAL there are SO MANY impactful important game pieces people play in enchantments that are left unanswered. But most colors don't have the option. (YES I KNOW FEED THE SWARM EXISTS ITS ONE CARD THAT DOESN'T SUDDENLY SOLVE THIS)
Pharika's libation is basically the only other enchantment removal in black, but won't hit the target you want if it's against an enchantment deck.
I think the free spell cycle is an issue in the sense that it removes a layer of strategy. If i strategically wait until people tap out to play my boardwipe or overrun effect or something and then the fierce guardianship, flawless maneuver or obscuring haze come out, i've planned everything out correctly and still got got, i think that punishes tight play and instead disincentivizes players to play around interaction.
Richard: I never use mean cards...*cough abused glacial chasm in every deck cough*
Crim: You can stop be from playing the game and never have a chance to get back into the game.
Also Crim: You played Dockside one time? Wow, that's mean.
Excellent! I've been looking for new cards to put into my decks!
I'm shocked Dictate of Erebos/Grave pact didn't come up. I quickly took those out of any decks once I realized how locking people out of playing creatures made them feel.
Crim: Yeah locking someone is out of the game isn't mean. But Dockside accelerating you fast is mean.
And even then only accelerating you fast if other people did too
He's kinda right though 💀💀
@@zweisno he's not dockside is just a ritual that scales depending on the table thats not mean. As crim would say its just part of the game
I kinda agree. I have more fun fighting against stax pieces than someone with a bunch of resources.
@@hyperonmonster I have the wholly opposite view. I find it much more fun for someone to pop off with big plays than to be stax'd to the point of being unable to play.
Dockside into a big play that wins the game or meaningfully advances the game is a lot more fun to me than being given Pyromancer's Swath and playing top deck simulator until I eventually die.
An alternative to cathar's crusade is the only playable unfinity card: Starlight Spectacular
Saw In Half
@@highlander7462saw in half is fantastic
Cathar crusade is more annoying for maintain teh dice. But starlight is a pain for math.
@@Jrizzle7426 Saw in half is the dream card for commanders that reanimate themselves. 2 ETBs, 2 death trigger, and infinite of those as long as you have the ressources to reanimate
@laytonjr6601 I run in chatterfang. It's insane with any of the druids.
Seth's point about Myriad for spells is Zevlor, Elturel Exile. Needs to tap to do it but there are ways around that.
Yeah, I just want it printed on actual instants and sorceries.
I had a Windgrace deck where my wincon was a Terravore / Centaur Vinecrasher and I used 'Destructive Flow'.
My table told me how unfun it was and I promptly took it out and soon took apart the deck.
31:00 It makes me happy that I'm building Syr Konrad and that is exactly what I'm throwing in there. Why would I ignore a combo with my commander? Sure, I could run Sanguine Bond/Exquisite Blood, but that's boring.
Oubliette is only mean if you use it on the monoblack players commander because they only have 1 on color piece of enchantment removal and a couple of colorless answers they're probably not even running because they're 7 mana.
Crim, being a sociopath, is incapable of understanding the assignment here.
nah fr, i genuinely can't tell if he's just being a massive troll or if he actually is incapable of having feelings kekw
He woke up 2 hrs early to orient his jacket pins instead of reading up on empathy lol
@@bppppppppppp Crim is my favorite. He is 100% trolling AND incapable of feelings
ngl the more i play edh the more my "cards that i think are mean" become "cards i think are good"
i still don't run notion thief or opp agent, but blood moon? hell yea
ive never thought twice about including aura shards or grave pact edicts
@@sunflowertheogblood moon is 100 percent mean youre shutting half of the decks in the format out
56:52 Buddy of mine randomly had one in his Ramos deck, forgot it was in there, and 💩 all over us with it one time. Totally caught us by surprise. He took it out immediately after that game, yet I thought it was a pretty funny and unexpected way to get crushed. I don’t think I’d want to see it every game, but I think it’s a cool card to bust out every once in a blue moon.
Daring Thief in my Saint Traft and Rem deck. I had 9 creatures out plus my commander and Prosperous Partnership and Intruder Alarm. So every turn I would make a minimum of 9 treasures 3 creature tokens and steal three things. First time I did it I traded a treasure token for the Great Henge.
Its really fun playing Mana Web into Vorinclex :D
Cathars' Crusade was dead on! I had it in my Darien deck and paired it with Soul Warden and Archangel of Thune. My God is it a nightmare to track. Appreciate the content guys!
55:15 Getting rid of the tuck rule was probably the best change since Commander became a Wizards-supported format. Tucking just felt out of place in a format named after your marquee legend, the card you built your whole deck around.
My favorite death in any game of commander ever involved getting Mind Slavered. I had a very difficult to disrupt board position and hand, but was at 9 life. I had a snapcaster mage in hand, lost my mana crypt flip on my upkeep, and then topdecked lightning bolt. The most incredible topdeck that was possibly the only way to have killed myself but... my opponent said "okay, bolt snap bolt yourself" and I died lol.
The only arguement I can think of for playing targeted discard in EDH is for mono black or RB decks that are graveyard based and auto lose to Farewell
I have one example where I've made a cut for the sake of being less mean. In my Boros Equipment deck I cut Stonehewer Giant for several reasons. I often found that the card had two modes of play depending on the matchup at the table; either it came down against a table that couldn't deal with it and it took over the game, or I was against a higher power opponent and this card never has the time to do anything. As a result, the games where it took off felt like I was punching down, and otherwise it was a dead card. Additionally, in the cases where it gets to stick around to generate infinite value, it was actually too much mental load after the first activation, trying it pick my second, third, and fourth best equipment for the particular situation, and it would eat a lot of the game clock with how much repeated searching and shuffling I had to do. Lastly, I needed to make room for Danitha, Benalia's Hope, who I think is better for both situations, giving immediate value for the higher power matchups, but not being an infinite value train against lower power matchups.
As a sram player, I made the same switch a long time ago. No regrets!
We wanted a short game before lunch and I ended up casting Warp World. We quickly just scooped and I couldn't help but nervous laugh. I took it after that (the deck made a bunch of tokens and it was the only nonpermanent so it was actually a good wincon).
As someone who recently experienced the Syr Konrad Mindcrank combo, it's mean in the same way they say Cathar's Crusade is mean. The player assembled the combo and then it took ~25 minutes to resolve all the triggers. They ended up fizzling and died the next turn. I don't mind super long turns as much as most people, but that turn took so much brain power to resolve and they didn't even win
Player targets literally anything, Seth and Richard "first of all, how dare you"
This video really sums up my commander experience pretty well. My favorite card of all time is Smokestack, followed by Stasis and the attrition game plan of slowly eating away at my opponents' resources to create a reaource gap. To me, that's the best part of the MTG rule system. But since people find that mean or salty or whatever, I mostly switched to ramp and especially land based control. But then people find control salty, so I switched to more dedicated ramp strategies. Now, some people find that salty, but fewer than all the other things, so I figured I was never going to make everyone happy, so I just styck with ramp for the most part because it bugs the fewest people out of the things I like. I want to make others happy, but I also want to have fun myself, so until I manage to force Smokestack into being cedh playable, here we are.
I use Aura shards in a Tana/Akroma deck, can confirm it is filthy in a deck which focuses on buffing a commander and creating more tokens out of combat damage :p
Thanks for the reminder to always bring up your Doran deck in the Rule 0 conversation
Targeted discard is solid for turbo strats.
i dont play my mono black sacrifice deck at my LGS anymore. Once it gets going no one is allowed to have creatures but me. the real problem with it is unless i get luck and get some huge crap from someone else i just drag the game on for a whole lot of turns.
When my friend group first started playing we didn’t know about format restrictions, we just built a 60 card deck each and followed the 4 of any 1 card rule. One of my friends only ever built goblins, any variation of krenko he could. So my other friend and I put 4 copies of tavadars crusade in every one of our decks even if they weren’t running much white just to show him a lesson
Mindslaver.. if you can loop it the best play is to make an agreement with another player to team with you. Let them play there own turns that way.
Yes, I've seen aetherflux kill a creature;
My table uses it as dead-mans switch until they can kill the table, but the soul sister player was comboing, so had to snipe a creature
I used to run Death Cloud in Marchesa, the Black Rose. It's the one deck, other than Tergrid, where it is acceptable. All your creatures return at end of turn and now you have an uncontested clock. Jokulhaups is better though.
Argghhh the Duress comment even explicitly gave context! Yes, in that context, it's a mean thing to do! Explicitly doesn't do a whole lot of for you while making things worse for someone else. Man you guys can be frustrating lol
Interesting idea around the "myriad on a spell". It would have to be modal like cyclonic rift, with an alt cost for the myriad ability, or kicker to add targets. A spell with just "myriad" lives in 2 states, OP as hell because you're looking at EVERYONE'S entire hand and discarding their best X (instant, creature, artifact etc) for such a good value that every deck now plays it just for the "peek", or it's so expensive to cast (because it's costed correctly for a card that provides perfect information, on all opponents, at a point in the game) that it's terrible and never sees play.
The play pattern I see with Aetherflux Reservoir is that someone will try to hit 51 life and hold the table hostage, threatening to shoot anyone who tries to remove it or push the Reservoir player below 50. Often they win from there after some wrangling. I play it in Prosper but I’ve only gotten it down a couple times.
I do think the mean part of a wheels deck is not the wheels, but the things that keep everyone else from getting any benefit off the wheels.
Kenrith’s Transformation doesn’t register as mean at all, everyone’s deck should be able to remove a creature, and it’s easy to make a deal with someone to block and kill your Elk if your commander isn’t absolutely degenerate. Even a sac outlet fixes your problem. Oubliette at least you need to have enchantment removal, and some colors don’t really do that. I’d feel a little rude Oubliette-ing someone’s mono red commander, except that the mono red commanders I regularly see are Toralf and saga Urabrask, and I really can’t leave either of those on the field, so really, why not?
I remember winning a 2-Headed Giant tournament with the Mindslaver/Lethal Vapors combo way back in like 2005. Last game I just took out one half of their team and nobody knew it was an actual thing, so they were caught completely off guard. Good times. Lol
Crims ability to give the most brilliant takes, and then follow them up with utter nonsense always amazes me 😂. As a primarily blue player, I couldnt be more proud.
26:57
In my dynaheir the invoker deck, I.e dirdle til infinite. I can duplicate mindslaver’s effect to multiple people. It’s more of a win con in that situation
Seth reiterating what ive said for years: Annihilator is a very unfun and busted mechanic. Eldrazi were 100% responsible for my first break from MTG. I remember going to play with my friends at my college lunch table and people were playing Emrakuls and Ulamogs and I was like WTF is this shit what do you mean i just start saccing lands n shit? OG Drazi were dumb cards 100% and they arent any more fun in EDH
Im surprised grand arbiter the third wasnt brought up lol
I think the thing that was not addressed with Mindslaver is you can essentially lock someone out of their Commander. All you have to do is exile their commander during the turn you're taking control of them and you can choose to keep their commander in exile. Same with putting it in graveyard or shuffling it into their deck.
That’s really funny actually
The comment about Aura shards makes me believe Crim hates every card type besides instants and sorcerys.
I've been playing "Plagiarize" as like, a 1 turn Notion thief effect. It's caught several people off guards where I got to hit someone's Peer into the Abyss, and another person's popped Midnight clock. Overall it's a much worse card but it's funny value is through the roof surprising someone with it
For me it was Martyrs Bond in my aristocrats deck.. sure it costs 6 mana but i can academy rector it into play and it's abusive. Im sacrificing multiple creatures and artifacts a turn and blow everyones board up
Tomer learning, in real time, his boyfriend is a masochist.
Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos are two that I've had to take out. They are a bit like Aura Shards in that once you have a leading position on the board, you literally cannot play the game, because everything you play will be effortlessly removed. I think themselves also being enchantments makes them one of the more difficult to remove permanents, even if you do run a lot of interaction, you only have one Feed The Swarm in mono black for example, so what else can you even do.
If you really want to see Restore Balance be a mean card just wait for them to cast Teferi's Protection in response to it.
Interesting thoughts on the Deathcloud or similar effects in a superfriends deck. I run Obliterate as my one haymaker game ender in my grixis planeswalker deck and I've never had anyone take issue with it. It's far superior to grinding the game out 15 turns with planeswalker nonsense. If I can blow up all permanents except for my walkers and some enchantments, that's GGs.
I actually didn't know Aetherflux Reservoir could hit a creature. I used Seething Song + Baral + Reiterate to get to infinite life but one player had Platinum Emperion and I actually started trying to dig through my deck for a removal spell before someone pointed it out to me.
IMO mana drain is one of the meanest cards. Counterspell is 100%fair but players already get mad at those enough when their 5+ drop gets sniped - and drain can get fired off just to ramp and causes a large mana disparity with 0 extra cost compared to counterspell. We house banned sol ring and mana drain.
What 2-3drop in green can even come close? Three visits ain't it, cultivate can't compare. Heroic Intervention is only reactive, while drain is a proactive mana stealing removal effect.
Honestly, I would much rather have 5 mana drains equivalents than one Fierce Guardianship. One for ones are inherent card disadvantage in commander, so benefitting off of doing so is actually not so awful. It is overtuned, but free counterspells are a genuine mistake in the format, cause you can’t play around them.
Carpet of Flowers, if we're accepting 1 drops
Rhystic study, dockside extortionist, cyclonic rift, Armageddon, necropotence, grand arbiter Augustin IV, isochron scepter + counterspell, gravepact, smothering tithe, jokullhaups, time stretch, pretty much every eldrazi titan and fast mana rocks like mana vault, mana crypt, metalworker, and jeweled lotus.
I don't play these anymore, they were fun the first few times but when I realized how miserable they made my friends I took them out.
I had to stop running spells like Frogify and Eaten By Piranhas in my Alela deck because I would just shut down my play group by disabling their commanders or forcing them to burn removal spells or sometimes even wraths be able to recast their own commanders.
Oubliette and Imprisoned in the moon are the best commander removal spells lol
Don't forget the green
@@jaredwright1655 That and of course darksteel mutation to cover white
Had I known about this pod before I would have looked in my past deck and found a lot of mean cards I don't play anymore.
anyway, great pod guys keep up the great work!
The only reason why you would play duress is because you're playing tiny bones and you're not doing it to discard other people's hands. You're doing it to draw yourself a card.
I find myself playing Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos less now than I used to, as the cards very often feel just too damn mean. Some decks don't give a heck, but others are just utterly incapable of maintaining a board presence longer than a phase through it, and I don't consider it good manners to lock someone out of half of their commander games for the week in that fashion.
Aura shards is the best Richard, keep playing it!
I think the main part about the card Doran was that it makes ALL creatures deal damage according to their toughness instead of their power.
That means the creatures of ALL opponents also attack with their toughness.
Most players intend to boost the power of their creatures and then attack with trample or in a way it can't be blocked.
Like attacking with a 1/1 creature boosted to 11/1 with trample.
But Doran completely denies that causing the opponent's 11/1 to only deal 1 damage instead.
Mindcrank plus Bloodchief Ascension = you win or opponent decks themselves out at the beginning of their turn especially if it is played with a mesmeric orb too
Extremely fair with Cathar's. I have a Ghave deck that was perfect with it and I never want to touch it again
Is fierce guardianship okay if you are using is specifically to protect your commander? Would that card be considered acceptable if it read, Counter target noncreature spell that targets you or a permanent you control?